Machine spirits are no joke, they're a very real thing in the setting and Princeps Zarha is right to be concerned. However, Grimaldus also knows that the Mechanicus (which the Titan Legions are inherently a part of) likes to keep their secrets on principle and is as likely to deny him access to this great weapon for a legitimate reason as they are because he isn't one of them. The Mechanicus serves the Machine God (the Omnissiah) first and foremost, and the rest of the Imperium sort of just lets them get away with this "heresy" because not having your ships and guns and tanks work is really not the play, and the Cult Mechanicus are the only people who can keep everything running. The Black Templars are especially zealous to the God-Emperor, so inherently there's gonna be tension there, as Grimaldus is a spiritual leader and likely doesn't have much sympathy for people who are, in his mind, borderline heretics for not putting the Emperor first.
In the book, the second that the Crone brings up Grimaldus' faith is when the big standoff begins. It is a HUGE deal to speak down on The Emperor in any way in front of a Black Templar, and many have not been nearly as "kind" as he was in addressing such claims. Mechanicus and Templars interacting in lore in most cases ends with AT LEAST one friendly fire incident, even if just a low-ranked Skiratii or servitors. He basically held the crew at gunpoint and had his whole Horus and Rogal Dorn tale and convinced her to fight here, ultimately smoothing over the Oberon thing with the information that it likely would never see battle in the first place, and if Tech-Marine guy managed to break in, they would ensure every possibility they could that the Machine Spirit could be blessed, they simply ran out of time and Tech-Marine has to o it all himself. Basically, they just end up on much better terms, with her ultimately agreeing with the need of Helsreach, also while succumbing to the Machine Spirit of her Titan threatening to overwhelm her.
5:33 The hierarchal dynamics between Grimaldus and the Princeps aren’t exact, as they’re both leaders from separate groups within the Imperium. The key reason for Grimaldus deciding to make the Princeps wait is that he is devoutly religious, his promotion to Reclusiarch makes him the spiritual leader of the entire Black Templars Chapter (+ all his issues with his promotion), and he is praying to the highest authority in the Imperium. Completing that prayer supersedes pretty much anything anyone could tell him.
@@ChicagoReacts Your initial confusion is super understandable though, the movie makes it seem like the only Marines Grimaldus has with him are his squad and the Techmarine which leads the audience to think that Grimaldus and the leader of a formation of gigantic mechs aren’t on equal footing. All of the other Black Templars at Helsreach, like the ones piloting those Thunderhawks Grimaldus used to threaten the Princeps all just get 0 screen time. They’re out there doing stuff though! It’s just a real big city. Another thing I wanted to clarify was the whole sermon thing the Princeps said was needed to activate the weapon in the bunker, because you had wondered why the Mechanicus hadn’t gotten around to that: the sermon isn’t done once in a while like an oil change or something, it’s done every time they turn the thing on. The issue she was bringing up wasn’t that it needed a specific sermon, but that it needed a specific high ranking Mechanicus Priest to do it and that the Techmarine was so unworthy of turning it on he was going to break it. She was putting mad disrespect on my boy’s name.
There's always a complex tangle of dynamics between separate groups such as the Guard, the Navy, local Planetary Defense Forces, Sisters of Battle, Adeptus Mechanicus, Ecclesiarchy... all from different planets and with different customs. But the chapters of the Adeptus Astartes and the Legios of the Collegia Titanica really are the worst in that respect and the only groups so powerful that dare disobey the supreme commands of a Crusade Warmaster or an Inquisitor. They take requests instead, and treating them with feudal respect and honor is the only way to deal with their pride.
Machine spirits are no joke, they're a very real thing in the setting and Princeps Zarha is right to be concerned. However, Grimaldus also knows that the Mechanicus (which the Titan Legions are inherently a part of) likes to keep their secrets on principle and is as likely to deny him access to this great weapon for a legitimate reason as they are because he isn't one of them. The Mechanicus serves the Machine God (the Omnissiah) first and foremost, and the rest of the Imperium sort of just lets them get away with this "heresy" because not having your ships and guns and tanks work is really not the play, and the Cult Mechanicus are the only people who can keep everything running. The Black Templars are especially zealous to the God-Emperor, so inherently there's gonna be tension there, as Grimaldus is a spiritual leader and likely doesn't have much sympathy for people who are, in his mind, borderline heretics for not putting the Emperor first.
In the book, the second that the Crone brings up Grimaldus' faith is when the big standoff begins. It is a HUGE deal to speak down on The Emperor in any way in front of a Black Templar, and many have not been nearly as "kind" as he was in addressing such claims. Mechanicus and Templars interacting in lore in most cases ends with AT LEAST one friendly fire incident, even if just a low-ranked Skiratii or servitors.
He basically held the crew at gunpoint and had his whole Horus and Rogal Dorn tale and convinced her to fight here, ultimately smoothing over the Oberon thing with the information that it likely would never see battle in the first place, and if Tech-Marine guy managed to break in, they would ensure every possibility they could that the Machine Spirit could be blessed, they simply ran out of time and Tech-Marine has to o it all himself. Basically, they just end up on much better terms, with her ultimately agreeing with the need of Helsreach, also while succumbing to the Machine Spirit of her Titan threatening to overwhelm her.
5:33 The hierarchal dynamics between Grimaldus and the Princeps aren’t exact, as they’re both leaders from separate groups within the Imperium.
The key reason for Grimaldus deciding to make the Princeps wait is that he is devoutly religious, his promotion to Reclusiarch makes him the spiritual leader of the entire Black Templars Chapter (+ all his issues with his promotion), and he is praying to the highest authority in the Imperium. Completing that prayer supersedes pretty much anything anyone could tell him.
Ah, I see. That makes sense then
@@ChicagoReacts Your initial confusion is super understandable though, the movie makes it seem like the only Marines Grimaldus has with him are his squad and the Techmarine which leads the audience to think that Grimaldus and the leader of a formation of gigantic mechs aren’t on equal footing. All of the other Black Templars at Helsreach, like the ones piloting those Thunderhawks Grimaldus used to threaten the Princeps all just get 0 screen time. They’re out there doing stuff though! It’s just a real big city.
Another thing I wanted to clarify was the whole sermon thing the Princeps said was needed to activate the weapon in the bunker, because you had wondered why the Mechanicus hadn’t gotten around to that: the sermon isn’t done once in a while like an oil change or something, it’s done every time they turn the thing on. The issue she was bringing up wasn’t that it needed a specific sermon, but that it needed a specific high ranking Mechanicus Priest to do it and that the Techmarine was so unworthy of turning it on he was going to break it. She was putting mad disrespect on my boy’s name.
There's always a complex tangle of dynamics between separate groups such as the Guard, the Navy, local Planetary Defense Forces, Sisters of Battle, Adeptus Mechanicus, Ecclesiarchy... all from different planets and with different customs. But the chapters of the Adeptus Astartes and the Legios of the Collegia Titanica really are the worst in that respect and the only groups so powerful that dare disobey the supreme commands of a Crusade Warmaster or an Inquisitor. They take requests instead, and treating them with feudal respect and honor is the only way to deal with their pride.
"I see you do not show your face this time, knight. You see me revealed, yet you hide behind the death mask of your Emperor."
*"Our* Emperor..."
When GIGACHAD Grimaldus says you must wait for his prayers to be done... you wait, yes? :D
cutthroat business between the different branches of the imperium. very common behavior