I would be more concerned about the transmission lasting the life of the car than worrying about the engine. Was the trans fluid changed at 500? Also this data only shows bedding in taking place, how do you know removing the oil early hasn't adversely affected the bedding in process by removing wear particles that may assist in the bedding in. Although I suspect no difference in useful engine life by doing this, if it did make a positive difference who is benefiting? The 4th owner? The scrap yard selling the engine? More likely the rubber seals in the engine fail or that is out of date and replacing with an ev or new car makes more sense before the engine wears out if maintained correctly Lastly I wouldn't want to risk affecting the warranty of the car by changing the oil oneself. Just following the manufacturers schedule seems the best course of action.
@AK-pu2gm - I agree with you. Some manufacturers such as Honda and Ford provide guidance to their dealer network to NOT change the FF early on some models. They claim the asperities in the oil actually help accelerate the bedding process.
If you live where there is no snow the 0W16 oil will work fine, as the engine oil with 0W8 is really for cold climates, and for fuel economy, as the engine is not really much changed for the last decade, where it was fine to use 10W30 oil, but the lighter oil relates to a slightly better fuel economy in testing.
@@Godspeed931from the first video, the used oil analysis of the 0W8 FF vs the virgin oil analysis of the 0w16 looked basically identical. not sure there's anything special about the initial FF
@@AK-pu2gm I make my living machining and building engines and transmissions and I've been doing that since the late '70s. The fact is the only thing that needs to bed in is the rings and with today's prelapped rings and modern honing techniques that happens in the first few full-throttle accelerations. The piston ring manufacturer's recommended procedure to seat the rings on a new engine is to warm them up at a then do a few light load accelerations then 3-5 full throttle accelerations each time closing the throttle abruptly to scavenge the cylinder walls clean. That's what we do on the dyno and with engines that didn't see the dyno. After the break in we drop the pan to check the bearings if everything is ok we put in new oil and send it. The fact is every engine shop in the entire world will tell you to change the oil after the first 50 miles or less because that is when the engine sheds huge amounts of large particles that will damage the surfaces. That has been scientifically proven to occur. For maximum engine life on new cars, I recommend you change the oil and filter before the first 50 miles and then again at 500.
yeah no matter how hard i try with lining up the drain pan,, there's always at least a few little splatters here and there.. I don't think in the perhaps hundred maybe even 200 oil changes i've done, there's not been at least a few splatters either on my clothes (always in garage rags) or on the floor.
You can pick up an engine for $800, which is what a lot of idiots on this thread seem to spend on oil every year by changing it every 1000 miles 🤣 10k is perfectly fine.
@@artemzhirkov3295 They often do come with a warranty for a certain time, and install can be done in a few hours, but needing a new engine is extremely rare. You really have to neglect it badly for a long time. Or it has inherent design faults like Hyundai and Kia do.
If you cange your own oil, one of the most overlooked places for contamination is the new filter threads. Next time you change your oil, take a clean towel and wipe out the threads in the new oil filter. I have found many iron flakes and shards in the threads of all brands of oil filters.
As a mechanic for 32 years I can attest he's talking nonsense. Absolute joke. Just telling people to waste their money and perfectly good oil. Funny how cars that have only ever been serviced as per manufacturers recommendations run perfectly fine for many decades and hundreds of thousands of miles.
Thanks for sharing your many years of experience opinion. I've been with my current employer for 40 years now, and I know for a fact there is no replacement for experience. I'm gonna change the oil on my new car next weekend. Cheers
@@motleydude73so you believe all break in materials are caught in the filter, and there’s in fact no way said materials are sustained in the oil? That’s the purpose of the video- showing proof with the analysis and giving unbiased education. I guess the only discussion would be do those materials matter if left til 10k miles….
Very interesting, thanks for sharing this. I have a question concerning oil in my CTS V. I get the oil changed at the dealership and they use the same Dexos 5w30 that is used in all the other GM cars. But I am concerned that with the high performance engine / heat that the supercharger might be producing if there might be a better choice for this engine. What about the oil that remains in the supercharger when the engine is cut off after driving. I’m just driving normally most of the time, nothing crazy or extreme. Thank you ! Charles Rhea MD
@@charlesrhea6810 Turbos produce a lot of heat, but superchargers shouldn't, they are using power from the belt, not from the exhaust gases, and have a heat exchanger as well.
@@kamakaziozzie3038you can use torque seal or bolt mark where the filter housing meets the engine. If they changed it, the seal will be separated/snapped
Absolutely! When I had a brand new TRD Tacoma I took it to the dealership for the first oil change. They said they changed the oil but when I popped the hood, same mud covered filter.
Mark it by scratching it lightly with a file. If you use a marker they got chemicals and cleaners not saying they’ll go so far as to clean off marker but you really want to be sure they changed the filter
@@kamakaziozzie3038 I share your concern, and have type canister filter. What I do is use a silver sharpie and draw 2 small lines on the filter housing and filter housing contact service, they rarely mount it back to the exact same place. Plus this tells me if they over tightened it
Great advice and excellent presentation .79 years old EX 1980 UK donnington GT champion . still doing my own car servicing .not as flexible as I used to be .. I still enjoy the mechanicing . a recent 2 post car lift is awaiting the heavy duty concrete slab to be prepared .
I could not agree more. The same procedure should be performed on all new equipment. Whether it is a ride-on lawn mower, car or truck to all the compartments of an excavator, wheel loader etc. GREAT ADVICE.
@@themotoroilgeek 500 miles on a lawnmower is a long time.;) Is the 5 hours recommended on my generator (or other air cooled small engines) ok or should should it be done sooner, especially as most don't have oil filters.
Yes you are right. My BULLDOG zero turn states to change oil after first 5h. THEN every 15-20 or roundabouts thereafter. ALSO my Polaris states there is also break in oil change.
i brought my son a new Honda Crf 125, it does not run an oil filter so i see it absolutely necessary to change out the oil on break in as the metal debris can float around a lot easier. same with most push mowers
My uncle, a lifelong mechanic beginning in World War I, taught me to change the oil in 500-1000 miles. Break-in change was standard 100 years ago. I’ve followed this advice with all of my new cars. I’ve never had an oil related engine problem.
Yea, engines and oils have improved somewhat since 100 years ago 🤣 No break in change is needed these days. I do first change at 10k. Never had oil related problems either. Why on earth would I?
I've drank a bottle of jack daniels with the first oil change in every car I've had. I've never had an engine oil related problem. I think the evidence speaks for itself. :p
@@piperpilot26 About 6 years on average. Current one for 13 years which I bought new in 2010. Been driving since 1989. Back then the normal interval was 6k when mineral oil was the main type.
This made my night, I started my maintenance career as an "oiler" and I got super geeky about it. It is refreshing to see someone that understands and can bring that knowledge to the masses. Thank you very much.
I was a senior manager in one of the big three in the US. One of the departments that I was responsible for is the fluids department which involves oil and other lubricants. We analyze thousands of oil samples every year from engines from dyno testing, from vehicles running durability, form employee lease vehicles, from rental fleet and from warranty. We also review teardowns of many of these engines. We do this with various oils both synthetic and conventional. I couldn't agree with you more. Our testing shows a continuous reduction in metal content as a function of miles. with every oil change. The worst is the first oil samples with low vehicle mileage. I tell friends and family to have a couple of oil changes after 2000 and 5000 miles and not to wait for the engine oil monitor to kick in which is programmed to go off at 10,000 miles or less. I tell my engineers; in God we trust but everyone else bring data and you did just that.
What is missing is the tie to “premature” engine failure or other signs of a compromised engine. The oil gets dirty quickly on a new car. Got it. But what are the quantified impacts to engine life / performance?
@@hbullock I have looked at thousands of data points from our oil testing program and never saw an engine fail because of the high metal content from the initial engine break-in period. I have seen engines that failed, and metal debris starts showing up in the oil because the customers didn't replace the oil when they were supposed to or used an unapproved cheap oil. One series of engines failed because the low viscosity oil that was specified resulted in bearing wear which could be detected as high amounts of copper in the oil. These engines had to be replaced. With that said, recently, Toyota recalled 100,000 trucks and Lexus vehicles and is replacing their engines due to high metal debris that was left from the manufacturing process.
I worked as a mechanic for over 40 years and always offered a free oil change after the first 500 miles on all rebuilds. My personal opinion is it is crazy to go 10k miles on break in oil
You are right. Break in oil is designed to be changed after a few hundred miles. Even new cars with "normal" oil should be changed within the first few hundred miles.
Some decades ago, let's say in the beginning of the nineties, modern engines did last very long even without doing an early oil change during break in. Manufacturers like Volkswagen did not advise you anymore of cautious driving during the break in period. Before that in the eighties you need to very careful break the engine in. You had a table which told you the max allowed speed for each gear (Germany) up to the first 650 miles. From then up to 1400 miles you could increasingly drive faster but still only if the engine was in operating temperature. Better manufacturing technics together with hi-tech oils have been probably the reason why they got rid of that. So for the average customer there was no need to change your break in oil earlier nor did you have to take care of certain speeds. Current engines seem to not last very long anymore. I believe that very good oil and some basic rules when driving should be sufficent. But I can imagine that more frequent oil changing intervals will have a positive effect on longevity. A friend once told me that you can feel the status of your oil when you take a drop of the dipstick and rub it between thumb and pointer finger. The less smooth it feels the more used it is. Never tried it but I believe that because the log chained molecules become more and more broken and got worn out. Hi quality oil which is above the standards given by the manufacturer could probably do a pretty good job in keeping your engine in good health.
I just bought a 23’ Toyota Crown hybrid and had to haggle with the dealership to change my oil at 5,000 miles. But I insisted I wanted to do it despite what the owner’s manual said. This is the first car I’ve purchased with my own hard earned money that’s 100% in my name. I want this car to last me awhile, so I’m sticking with the 5,000 mile oil change interval, no matter how much I have to fight with the dealership lol.
I did my first oil change at 2000 miles. It's a 2023 Honda Civic. NO haggle at all. They never said a word. My first 2 years of oil changes are free. I'll do mine at 4000-mile intervals.
if the dealership gives you hard time, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! A mechanic wouldnt say no to getting paid. Heck, even a "handy man" wouldnt say no to a quick $30 in labor. Glad you resolved, but stick to your guns. You want the car to outlive you if possible haha
finally an expert acknowledges the need to change oil early during the break-in period. I always did my first at 1k but will follow your recommendation and go with 500 miles. thanks for posting!
Did my 23 4Runner at 899 miles... It was a lot of micro-sized prearlescence in the oil. I did the quart flush too. Glad I did it and I find it remarkable that people argue against it... 5k oil changes from now on!
@@kimbuck-2 What for? Isn't your vehicle brand new? Don't need to worry about oil changes for another 9000 miles. Doing anything yourself will void your warranty.
@@kimbuck-2 Why not? They're experienced technicians trained to work specifically on your brand. Good luck if you need anything fixed under warranty in the next 5 years they'll laugh at you.
I took delivery of my 2006 Toyota Sienna and by the time it hit 2000 miles It already had three oil changes. At 10k miles it had six oil changes. It now has 221k miles and drives like new. Recently I sent an oil sample for analysis and it came back perfect !
I purchased a new 2023 Chevy Malibu with a 1.5 liter turbo ! I completed one (1) trip down south from the northeast, and did the initial oil change at 1900 miles. An oil analysis sample reported the engine is breaking in properly. I didn't reset the oil life monitor! The dealer told me bring in the vehicle when the oil life is around 20%, or 6000 miles. I will still go to the dealer for the so-called courtesy free initial oil change and will not tell them I already did (1) oil change. I did this before with other new vehicle purchases. Bottom line, YES, absolutely do an initial break in oil change, if not at 500 miles, sometime around 1500-2000 miles ! If your keeping the vehicle don't wait for the 5000-7000 mile initial oil change. Do one in between !
I had a different Toyota dealership perform the last free/complimentary oil change. When I performed the next oil change, I discovered: - they over tightened the oil filter housing - they over tightened the drain plug - They cross threaded 4 skid plate bolts. Two of them broke when I tried removing them. - I dont usually remove the "secondary" oil filter cap...the little metal cap that allows you to drain oil out of the filter housing so it does not make such a mess when you remove the actual filter housing. So it was two or three oil changes later when I discovered that the dealership didnt re0lace the gaslet for the "secondary" oil filter cap. Do your own maintenance and make sure you know how to do it properly.
My Honda dealer has an Express Lube facility. I watch them like a hawk but haven't noticed any irregularity. I've had all of the long term employees do my oil changes and they've appeared to be very conscientious. I have a full synthetic Honda oil change done on our 2023 Honda Passport, multi-point inspection that they actually do for $79 with a service special. I've got 275K on my 2005 Pilot with 5K conventional oil changes. It uses maybe a half quart between changes to this day. I bought the Passport because it fit our needs plus the 3.5 time tested engine has been around for ages.
@davidanderson8469 I've not had a problem with a 2nd dealership (the one a bought the Tacoma from). But the one closer to my house is the one that screwed-up. I had a Honda dealership work on the 2004 Tacoma that I used to own and they kept telling me the truck had a problem that it didn't actually have. I paid they $750 to fix a nonexistent problem. When that didn't resolve the issue, they claimed it had yet another problem that did not exist and wanted another $750. I refused the service and brought the truck to a local shop. He called me and told me the truck was ready...the oil leak was from a loose front differential drain plug and there was no charge.
Thank you for this video. Funny enough - 4 years I received a company car which happened to be a corolla - on the day I got it from the Toyota dealership the sales guy told me to show up in 15k km (approx 9300 miles). As it is a company car it has got a lot of km to drive. The very first drive was 900km with a stop to fill up. And already on the second day after receiving the car I was already driving with the speed of more than 150km/h (>90mph). And then I didn't calculate properly the distances and showed up for the very first oil change (after 6 weeks of driving) with almost 20k km on the clock. Within the 3 years I was driving it (C19 made it a bit complicated at that time LOL) I made almost 280k km (170k miles) and nothing ever broke or there were not issues at all with the car. It was sold to one of the company employees and now it is stil driving fine with 300k km. So yes, toyotas are really well put together cars :)
@@winjaywin He did not say that the engine will fly into pieces. It will just wear out faster. I have seen Corollas that consume oil most likely to infrequent oil changes.
Thanks for bringing clarity to an often debated question. In the past I had always changed my new vehicle oil at 500 miles but had gotten away from the 500 mile and moved to less than 3000. I now have justification for changing the oil in my new Silverado HD 6.6 gas engine at 600 miles instead of waiting. You also validated my practice of filling the new oil filter. I have made this a practice for many years, especially when I was working on the big trucks at work. I appreciate you generosity in sharing your knowledge.
This seems gets rid of the the metal chips left over from matching. Also should get rid of the assembly lube grease that may contaminate oil filter. I've been doing this a long time on new engines even lawn mowers.
No debate just change it as per manufacturer recommendations not taking some geeks advice on youtube! He's just costing you money and you're wasting good oil.
@@rogerdodrill4733 Why would your engine fail? You americans are uber paranoid about oil it's laughable. Just chuck fresh stuff in every 10k miles and drive it your engine will be fine. In my 32 years in the trade I've yet to see an engine have catastrophic failure because the owner stuck to manufacturer recommendations. They built the engine they kinda know best huh.
I was raised in Jackson, Mississippi and am now 72 years old. I have lived in Colorado for over 40 years, but I do remember your father. The older brother of one of my good friends knew Lake Speed. My undergraduate study was Chemical Engineering at Mississippi State University. BTW, I ended up attending medical school at the University of Mississippi Medical School. Unfortunately, I don't remember much chemical engineering these days, but I have many fond memories of those days. Thank you for your academic and accurate information. As I'm sure you know, it's not so easy to know who is telling the "truth" these days!
I sent a oil sample to Speed he was spot on he detected high silicone levels in my oil. The silicone was from the oil pan gasket that my mechanic replaced my mechanic went a little heavy in the silicone. Because of this oil analysis I dumped and did a complete oil change. Silicone acts as an abrasive.
Even if you measure out the exact width of rtv the service manual states to use there's going to be high silicone content in the oil for the first couple oil changes
Probably one of the best knowledgeable basic recommendations to change the oil by the first 500 miles for any new car or truck is how exactly what my father taught me well… Kudos
Being an avid car true collector of the Vintage Volkswagens and few 911 Porsches; As well as newer Toyota 4Runners, and Tacoma trucks for over 20 years has given the actual professional level of experience and a real sheepskin to know that your facetious lazy comment being just an oxymoron, whereas you MotleyDude are wrong … C’est la vie
@motleydude73 not true....break in oil has high zinc content and should be changed at the 500mile mark on a new vehicle..after that,normal intervals is fine(5000)
Love it, keeps it simple, no fancy battery power tools. No lift! And finally someone else dedicates a quart to flush through the motor! My wife and friends laugh when I do it to mine.
I also pour a little oil to chase out the contaminated oil but I think a quart is too much, it's a waste, when you pour that oil into the crankcase it's only going to flow down one passageway into the crankcase, it's not going to flow throughout the entire engine. I just pour maybe 10 fluid oz. or so.
I completely agree. I'm 75, still do all my work on my vehicles and I always change the oil on new vehicles several times before what the owner's manual says. I ignore the manual recommendations. This same principal applied to the bevel box on my shaft driven motorcycle - sort of like a differential on a four wheel vehicle. At 100 miles, I drained the gear oil. It was black and contained wear in metals. I changed it again after another 200 miles. It was still fairly black and contained some bit less wear in metals. Changed it again after another 500 miles and it was almost like it came fresh out of the bottle. Now I change it at every oil change and it's always like new. Believe it or not, the manual says the first change should be at 40,000 miles!!! Ridiculous! I do essentially the same with motor oils and my engines seem to last forever. I buy cars new so I know how they've been maintained and I keep them usually for over 20 years. By then, the body is rusted but the engines run like new. Listen to this guy. He knows what he's talking about.
I really wish I found this video a month ago. I brought my Corolla home at the end of November and just passed 1,000 miles on the 23rd. Now I need to order some oil and filters.
Really good to see you telling people this . I'm a performance engine builder and I will give a motor a oil change right on the test stand or dyno after 30 minutes, than in the car and 100 miles than again at 500. And I would never run any oil in anything for 7 or 10k thats emissions propaganda. I also do trans and rear end oil very often. Often
Yes thanks for sharing! Good to know all this great info from everyone, info that has seemed to have been lost in this modern age of consumerism and planned obsolescence.
Not emissions propaganda, it's the cost of ownership to 36k miles (or whatever milage the writer calculates.) The second reason is factory paid maintenance. The millions of dollars extra they'd spend for an extra oil change for 125,000 vehicles if interval is dropped 2500 mi and the vehicle gets 1 or 2 more changes is big reason. I worked corporate for a manufacturer and no emissions consideration was involved. In Europe the story is different.
I usually download the South American owners manual for my car(same exact engine) and check the oil weight listed and that will tell you this incredibly thin oil is strictly for USA CAFE standards, not engine longevity. In many other countries for that exact engine the manual calls for up to 5w30 oil.
I can attest to this also for Transmission Fluids. I rebuilt a 2003 GMC Sierra 2500HD and also a 2006 Chevy Silverado 2500HD both have the same transmissions (4L80E) and the 2006 called for (different) thinner fluid but I put the thicker transmission fluid as was used in the 2003 GMC. For people who say well the clearances are tighter so you need to use the thinner oil. These were the exact same transmission down to every last seal, etc. The USA CAFE standards along with these rip off companies are destroying the vehicles and getting maybe slightly better gas mileage from maybe a little less friction. Hence why they say in the manual for this Toyota to do the first oil change before 10k, if they were honest they would say 500 miles and send this video to every buyer of their product.
And if you're using such a thin oil, your bearing clearances and internal clearances are very tight. Which means it's even more sensitive to engine debris causing damage. Good call, thanks for the video.
And with such tight bearing clearances for 0w-8/16 oil it’s also very important to not ever run too thick of a viscosity oil too like for ex a 5w30 or worse yet 10-30 o,5-40,10-40,yikes!/LOL! The motor can obviously handle 16wt viscosity when the oils up to full op temp so if I owned a new car that rec ow-8 or 16 oil & lived in a warmer climate like Fl often using ac loading motor more & creating more heat I’d be running (if they make it ) 5-w-16 or slightly higher cold viscosity oil like 5w-20 & here’s why I say that. In my wife’s when new 2018 RAV4 Toyota wanted us to go 10k miles an oil change inc 1st breakin oil change ,not me! I changed oil & filter at 1k miles & again at 5k miles using m1 0-20 full syn. What alarmed me was (esp having 50yrs Exp rebuilding muscle car motors & restoring car with motor oil & its analysis being a hobby of sorts for me) was that with only 4K miles on the m1 0-20 it was pitch black & had heavy burnt order to it which wasn’t good imho. But I put more m1 0-20 full syn in it for next 5k miles to total 10k mikes on the motor & that oil looked & smelled worse with only 5k miles on it being full m1 oil. This oil seemed as though it could not handle the everyday heat & driving here in ny which aren’t that bad but with a still relatively new low mile motor the oil should not be pitch black smelling burnt. I never liked 0w oil base Wt oil in full syn & thought I better try moving to a 5w-20 m1 fully syn where it has a little better protection against heat & shear having a more robust 5w base oil. Well that did the trick because the next 5k miles on it & it never turned blk looking med tan color with no burnt smell & could still see marks on dipstick thru the oil too. Fast for word to 60k miles today changing m1 5-20 full syn oil & filters every 5K miles and the oil has never been black or smelled burnt at 5k mile changes like the 0-20 did which tells me the 0w base Wt in 0-20 & it’s additive pkg can’t handle the heat etc in 5k miles turning blk & smelling burnt where 5w-20 oil from same mfg never turned blk smelling burnt in same 5k mile oil changes in same motor in same use cond to yrs later now at 60k miles changing the oil & filter every 5k miles. Btw,this car/motor see’s mult trips from ny to fl yearly where the motors pushed hard with ac on at high speeds for hrs at a time & in fl heat in traffic with ac on & the m1 5w-20 never turns blk or smells burnt with now 60k miles on the motor at 5k Mike oil changes,motor doesn’t use or burn any oil in 5k miles too! I know I made the right call/choice to not use the m1 0w base Wt oil in our RAV4 when I saw it turn blk & smell burnt in 4-5k miles where 5w-20 never turns blk or even dark brown & never smells burnt even at 5k miles like the 0-20 always did. Yes oil analysis would have been nice to have but I was in a position where I had to change the oil on the spot with no sample kits at home at the time to collect a sample. But seeing the drastic diff in color of the 2 oils in same mileage with one smelling very burnt & the other not smelling burnt at all looking nice tan color & not blk told me with just going from 0w to 5w that the lighter 0w base Wt oil can’t handle heat & stress as well as the 5w base Wt oil could with i would assume both those oils having basic same additive pkgs past the diff in base/cold W Wt. Keep up the great work you you do on oils educating us on tech etc. Happy motoring! Scott
It's really sad seeing people go 10-12k miles between oil changes on these cars. You see it all the time checking the service records on these cars. They will be (1+ quart per 1k miles) oil burners by 100 -130k on the odometer.
Love the videos, Lake. Question: What oil are you using in your Porsche? My oil story: I own a 2006 Honda Element that I bought new. Now I am old school so I change my oil every 6 months or 5K, whichever comes first. I don't drive like I did when younger so for the past 4 years at 6 months I only put between 1K and 2K on the oil. Yes I am using a 0W-20 synthetic. Oil is cheap. The Element has 230,000 miles on it and still does not leak or use oil. Shooting for 500K if I live that long.
After seeing the inside after just about every GM car in my area from the early 20 teens, none of my oil will ever see more than 5k. That's using Amsoil too.
the 10k oil changes are to satisfy the EPA environmental requirements. nothing more nothing less. if you follow the recommended oil changes from the manufacturer you are damaging your engine.
I’m a dealership Mopar parts guy. I’ve been telling customers to ignore that oil change meter for years. After break in normal use I tell customers 5-6k max with synthetic, 3k for spirited or harder use. Change after racing or hard core use like heavy towing. People really need to still treat their cars lightly during the first 500 miles. Especially performance cars. Dodge actually put it in the manual.
Great info. Very informative. 2012 G37, original owner, 113K miles,first oil change at 3900 miles, now using 0W40 Mobil1,which has reduced a small amount of oil burn compared to, the recommended 5W30(Mobil1). I will start flushing with clean oil between changes as you suggested. 0W-8 makes me cringe!
I’m pretty obsessive about oil changes but even I wouldn’t do the first change at 500 miles. 1000 to 1500 maybe with subsequent change every 5k with full synthetic.
@@motleydude73 10k on this motor would be considered abusive lmao, toyota recommends 5k but considering im gonna be beating on it ill just do every 2500. Easy enough and only cost me like $35.
@@brandon9491 Toyota generally recommend 10k. I work on them every day. Abusive? It's perfectly fine. You're gaining nothing by doing excessive changes. 5k is recommended for the new GR.
Is the “3 months or XXXX mileage” matter as much anymore? Should we be concerned about getting our oil changed by month’s calculation or stick to mileage? Thank you for breaking this down for us!!!!
I have a 2023 Highlander. Put 3000 miles on a trip to Florida. At 6000 mi says it needs service. I brought it to the dealer . They said we are rotating the tires but not changing the oil. Took it to my mechanic for an oil change. Not 500 mi but better than 10,000. Subscribed.
Manufacturers used to recommend a pretty comprehensive break-in procedure. They all used "break-in oil". I remember the first change being at 1000 miles, not 500, but it probably varied over time and from one manufacturer to another. During that 1000 miles you were advised to not rev high and to not run the engine at a steady RPM for long periods. But most important was that 1st oil change.
@@promethbastard No it wasn't. I started my automotive apprenticeship in 1993. No cars had 'break in' changes. The first change was always at 10,000 kms. These days it's 15000. I bought a new Honda Accord in 1995 first change was due at 10000. A break in period was recommended but not early oil changes.
@@motleydude73 Interesting, although I would say "It wasn't for you" - it was pretty much a known/given thing with the people I hung around. Your experience isn't the experience of others.
I referenced this video in a Euro car forum & all holy hell broke out. People, despite hard/fast lab results (science), will STILL fight & die on the hill of engines have already been broken in now at the factories.... it's akin to arguing water isn't wet but they don't let that get in their way of arguing the un-argable.
I do not understand that thinking at all. If you are wrong the worst is you have spent a few extra dollars on oil and filters. That is still way cheaper than an engine rebuild 15 years down the road. Still driving my 2002 Dodge Ram I bought new. I change the oil every 3,000 miles.
Best vehicle I ever had 88 jeep 4 litre straight six. Changed my new Jeep oil at 500 miles. Drove it 34 years and then it drove from Ca. to Norther Michigan where it !ives now. GREAT advice! I remember all the metal in my oil at only 500 miles. Never went more than 3,000 miles between changes.
I've just finished my third oil change on my wife's 22 Cherokee 3.2L Pentastar engine. On my other cars I can use FilterMags on the outside of the metal oil filter can, but on this design engine I can't do that, so I installed a magnetic drain plug at first oil change at around 1300 miles. At 2nd oil change(5k odo), I was a little surprised at how much iron was picked up. At 3rd oil chg(9300 mile odo), I was even more surprised at how much iron dust has been picked up by the mag drain plug. I don't think many people are aware how much fugitive iron dust is circulating in a modern "all aluminum" DOHC engine.
This reminded me that I need to change oil in my daily. I don't have good access to oil tests here in Europe and I drive a lot on dusty gravel so I try to stay on top of oil and air filter changes. Thanks for all the great information. 👍
@@PSA78 You use it the same as everybody else, which is giving the engine far less stress and abuse than the manufacturers give them when benchtesting them. Toyota run theirs for 144 hours straight at full revs. If they say change your oil every 10,000 miles or 5000 under 'severe' conditions you won't have any problems.
@@motleydude73 That's not how it works, they know very well that different conditions (even different regions in the world) require different service intervals. I used to run engine tests for an engine mfg.
@@PSA78 It doesn't matter just change it as per manufacturers recommendations it'll last decades and hundreds of thousands of miles, unless it's an inherently flawed design, like Hyundais and Kias. Just crap. I don't care about your 'credentials', real life experience says manufacturers OCIs are fine.
When I bought my new 2006 CR-V, Honda stated not to do the first oil change until at least 5000 miles because of additives used to break in the engine. I followed that advice. All I can say is the engine still runs fine after 17 years and 10 months.
yes I spoke with 3 seperate Honda service managers at 3 seperate dealerships and they all advised me against a first 1,000 mile oil change and I was willing to pay for it out of pocket so I did not do it.
Yeah this video proves absolutely nothing. Changing your oil at 500 miles is absurd bologna that this guy probably remembers from the 80s back when American motors were built like total junk.
@@katazack bullshit. take it to a lube place like Take 5 or Jiffy then... Additives or whatever is NOT gonna prevent microscopics from floating in that oil from breaking in the cylinder walls. That's where most of the metallics are coming from.
Thank you, Lake! You are so kind to share your knowledge with us. We just bought a 2024 Toyota Camry LE, and thanks to you, we changed oil and filter at 480 miles.
Back in the pre synth days I always did first change between 500 & 1000 miles. Then changed every 2 months or 2000 miles. With synthetics I still do first between 500 & 1000 miles and then every 3 months or 3000 miles max. I’ve always kept my vehicles for high miles and never had engine problems. It’s served me well for 40 plus years. Like the old Fram commercial stated “ You can pay me now or pay me later”.
@@michaeltammaro482 what breaks down oil is fuel that drips into crankcase after every shut down which is why short trips are killer. Plus if I’m traveling and go over 3K I know I’m still protected. Also heat cycles and ambient temps cause moisture which also gets into oil. This I learned from an oil engineer. But overkill has helped me achieve very high mileage out of my engines with no failures or any problems
It's nuts to change synthetic every few months! I knew a tow truck operator decades ago who only changed the filter & topped up the oil with another near quart every 3-5000 miles. He was approaching 400,000 miles on the truck.
@@pablobruise1388 maybe to you it is. But knowing combustion and dilution and physically seeing what it does to oil and engines I’ll continue my ways. Been a mechanic for 40 plus years so I’m good with my decisions
I got a 23 IS500 this March, I changed the oil myself at about 600 miles and then again at 1500. I tested it both times, and the first change had tons of contamination, the second had way less, I plan on doing it again at 2500 and then every 5000 after that. After seeing the oil after the first change it's so critical to not wait imo
You are smart. You should change the oil by 1,000 miles to get all the crap out of the new engine. If you have a differential in any vehicle, ie, truck, AWD, etc you should change the fluid the first time at 5,000, also allowing the initial metal to be removed.
@bluesky-ud9wg ya I have the vehicle parked for winter already but I'm planning on doing the tranny fluid and LSD sometime next summer. The way toyota doss their oil filters is both a blessing and a curse. It shows everything that the filter catches and scares the crap out of you but since buying toyota's I realize the importance of the first few oil changes. Once they are broken in there's nothing in there but the first oil change is shocking.
@@85CEKR As I keep telling you morons, there is no 'break in' period on new cars, drive it hard from day 1 and change oil at 5k or 10k as per Toyotas recommendations. Just wasting good oil and money otherwise.
I love how science crosses over to different applications. I'm an HVAC mechanic. I work on large semi-hermetic compressors. When we replace a compressor or rebuild a compressor, we replace the oil and canister filter after the first 40 hours of use. To those who say that is excessive the proof is in the pudding. I have compressors in the field that are still kicking 30 years later.
Lake, I also run a magnetic drain plug in my cast iron block and I'm surprised by the quantity of magnetic particles this drain plug collects. The particles aren't troubling or particularly large but more like a fine size which feels like grease. I intend on doing this same thing on a couple other of our family vehicles. It would be quite interesting to know what others are finding on their magnetic drain plugs.
A friend of mine had an AMC Pacer that he purchased new years ago when they first came out. He drove that to just over 100,000 miles …..and never changed the oil. As the car would use oil, which it did, he would just add more. He hated that car and never picked up a wrench in his life. He wouldn’t spend the money on an oil change.
@@Notfiveo0 That's impressive the vehicle actually made it to 100k miles. I can't count how many vehicles I've seen which wiped out the bottom end when sludge had clogged the drainback holes in the heads and the oil was trapped up top under the valve covers. Another common failue occurs when gallery passages are clogged with debris, leading to portions of the engine being starved. I just tested a few days ago, my 455 Oldsmobile (clean as a whistle, internally) to see how quickly sae 30 would drain back to the oil pan through the lifter valley (I wanted to wet the camshaft prior to a cold start) and was surprised I was able to fill the entire valve cover while quickly as possible pouring the oil in through the valve cover vent. My chevy, ford and buick all pass this test without incident.
I attach a magnet from old speaker on oil filter, all particles are on old filter & discarded.put magnet on new filter, repeat. Don't have to clean drain plug as much
@@rogerdodrill4733 The issue isn't cleaning the drain plug, that's easy to wipe using a clean rag. Cutting the filter open every oil change to monitor for swarf seems more difficult?
From an engineer... Higher level wear during the first few thousand miles is normal and is completely expected as all the components are getting broken in so very fine particles from newly machined surfaces are created. Like he said changing your oil early is good so you get these particles out of the system.
But right below that it states "However, it must be replaced with SAE 0W-8 at the next oil change". If for some reason you have an engine issue, will they warranty the motor if you continue to use 0W-16?
A lot of new cars call for 0w16 or 0w20 motor oil. There are a lot of people out there who are vehemently against using oil that thin and opt for 5w30. I’d love to see a video from you if there is a significant difference between the two for an average driver.
Engine masters, did an episode on their show, about oil weight. Going too thick can cause damage to an engine. They showed an extreme, but put 90 weight, I think, in an engine with tight tolerances, and it starved the bearings.
Going up a weight won’t hurt a thing. Older Toyotas used to spec 5w-20 to 20w-50. A Corolla I had showed that in the manual. Buy a vehicle outside the US and they spec different oils.
I was watching some Jeep 3.6L episodes on rocker arm issues. One thing I noticed is Jeep calls for 0W20 and almost every one was putting 5W30 or 10W30 in their engines. Could be coincidence. But makes you think that there’s something to what the engineers call for.
@@garyszewc3339 If OEM calls for 5w20 like in my 2010 Accord but live in mild winters never under 30 degrees/highs around 50-60 degrees...and always hot in the summer from 90-110 degrees, then changing to 5w30 for those 5 months of super hot weather and back down to 5w20 for the mild winters shouldn't be that bad?
So much misinformation out there. This was super helpful to add to my case. I just got a new car and every single person told me I didn't need to change the oil but in my case the manufacturer gave a specific mileage where they consider break in to be done. I will be changing the oil right at that point. Science is a hell of a thing! Great video!
Yeah I always changed my first at 500 and added a neodymium (large) magnet to the oil filter. Your daughter is lucky to have a mad scientist as a father! 😀
@@JesusIsLord7773 Not sure if this is what he's talking about, but I've been using a FilterMag magnet that wraps around the filter. I cut open a filter after about 5k miles and found a black soot on the inside of the filter where the FilterMag was mounted. It seemed to be very fine particles that had clearly flowed through the filter element.
I agree with you however I let my engine go to about 3000 on the first oil change from now after that I jumped straight into mobil 1 5-30 Full synthetic for my 2013 Subaru legacy with the flat six, after the first oil change I did it every 5000 miles now I have 140,000 on my car she barely burn any oil I just recently jumped to Pennzoil ultra platinum, The other thing I do when I first start the car up I drive it very normally at lower p.m. until I get some oil temp and coolant temp…. before beating on the car…
*_I know in this video You said to only use OEM engine oil, but on another blog I saw some guy said that not to use oem oil because it's just repackaged oil. That's somewhere on the back it says what company that made the engine oil. I was curious if they add more additives in the OEM engine oil than their own oil?_*
Totally agree. My Range Rover Velar first service recommended is 2 years or 21000 miles which is ridiculous. After the first oil change at 500 miles I now change the oil at 10000 miles.
It's not 'ridiculous', it's specified after benchtesting the engine and oils for optimum performance and longevity. Good synthetics last a very long time these days. It's shocking some people dump it out after 2000 miles. Honestly, all these home 'mechanics' who think they know better than the engine builders 🤣 I've only ever done manufacturers OCIs never a problem. Why would there be?
There's a channel here of RUclips, Garage Gear. He showed this with a brand new lawnmower by running it 10 or 15 minutes then changing the brand new oil out. You should see the metal in the oil!! I also learned this in 2019 when I changed the transfer case, and both diff fluids in my 2019 Ranger with about 5000 miles on it. They all drained out looking like grey milk, with the magnetized drain plugs with so much metal on them they weren't catching metal anymore.
@@TheBeatenPaths Funny. At Toyota we don't do the diff oil until 60,000kms. It always comes out looking like... pink diff oil! Grey suggests water is getting in. 5000 miles? I call BS.
Great video. Always did the same thing regarding initial oil changes. I've been turning wrenches since the early '70s. Never paid anybody to change my oil! My Toyota filters come with the gasket pre-lubed and also covered to keep crap out of the filter. Nice touch. Hey, I've got the same oil change pan!
Same here, the thought of someone else changing my oil horrifies me. Toyota filters and Mobil 1 every 6 months or 4,000 miles for me. Oil is cheap and engines are not!
Just bought my second Chevy impala, except this one's about 20 years younger, and about 200,000 mi less usage on it, seems to be a great car, watch this video before I change my engine oil. Thank you for the advice.
I have always had new cars. And I always closely observed the break in procedures. And I'd change the oil and filters at about 1,000 miles. Switched over to Amsoil and do 7500-10K(for the 10.5 quart sys) changes. On one car, due to past valve drop issues, I sent samples to Blackstone Labs. The results are stellar. I did this for several changes. No titanium at all in the oil sample, along with any other wearable metals. And both my engines rarely need oil additions between changes. I've alway felt that doing this with a proper break in will greatly reduce the chance of having a 'problem child' for the rest of the car's life. Glad to see this video reinforces my original idea.
Just bought a brand new Tundra HV. I always change the oil at early and frequent intervals within the first 5k of life. First one at 500 miles, second one at 2000 miles, and then again at 5000 miles. Will always change at 5000 miles from there on. This is how I've treated every new vehicle I've gotten. - Toyota MDT
Can I ask about new 2024 Honda engines? There are rumors online that Honda has advised against early changing of the initial factory oil in the past but I can’t seem to find any information from Honda directly on the topic. Thank you and great video!
Wow, hard-core Lake. Dumping a quart of new oil as a flush oil. Been changing my own oil for decades, never done that, even on a new car. But, I get it. Also, Honda not the same as back in 90's, now they recommend a full Maintenance Minder interval on factory oil. Supposedly, factory oil something special. Others say, it's just the moly assembly lube used from factory. Never followed OM recommendation. Lastly, there's a school of thought that says, don't prefill filter because new oil has many impurities that will make their way to the bearings on first start. I never bought the idea, and always prefill filter where practicable. If your daughter's car gets maintenance like this regularly, I'm sure the engine will last a long time. Thanks for interesting and informative vid.
@@themotoroilgeek Good to know, counters that new oil idea. Like I said, I never bought it, prefilling been SOP for me. I mostly use oil from 5qt. jugs now but I doubt any different than quarts. Thanks for the reply.
This certainly won’t hurt anything, but is way overkill. The small amount of wear metals and the very, very small size of them, means they add basically nothing to bearing wear or other wear in the engine. The main issue with new engines is excess sealant as mentioned or any debris left in the engine during manufacturing. I change at 2,500 to get most of the initial break-in wear materials out and any manufacturing debris the escaped the filter. I then change at 5,000 and every 5,000 thereafter with a turbocharged engine. With a normally aspirated engine, I have no problem running synthetic oil for as much as 10,000 miles, but with a turbo I feel better at 5,000 given the heat generated by the turbo.
@@carstuff4u942 Nope, lots of evidence on my side. There is zero evidence to support multiple early oil changes in a modern engine. You probably also believe it is bad to fill oil filters before installing them as the new oil might be “dirty” and go through the engine once without first being filtered.
This is the only sane comment in this whole thread. Okay, you see results in doing the early oil change. Big whoop.... when have you actually heard of a car dying because you followed the factory interval? Be honest, the answer is *never.* There will be a myriad of other reasons why the car dies before even a little bit of extra break in metalicity on the first 10,000km even matters.
Your entitled to your opinion however you are incorrect. Regardless of opinions more material in the oil cycling through the engine causes more wear point blank. Don't hate me hate science. His next video on this topic proves your opinion is just that. An opinion. No disrespect. Just science dosn't care about your feelings or thoughts 🤷♀️
@@mattdagger1480Well, I won’t go into my credentials here, but let’s say I am not ill-informed on matters of science and engineering. His next video discusses prefilling oil filters. Tell me how that invalidates anything I wrote here.
Important consideration I thought of: if you're using a filter type that catches a lot of particles (based on other tests I've seen, sometimes at the cost of some flow, Purolator Boss, Royal Purple for example) your oil will appear cleaner. That would really muddy the results, so we're really testing the oil, engine, and filter as a system because we can't remove the filter from the equation.
Lubrication is always a system that involves more than the lubricant itself. Proper lubrication can be defined as the right oil, in the right place, at the right time and in the right amount.
Every New Vehicle I Have / Had I've Changed Oil At 500 Miles. Then Again At 1000 - 1500 Miles. Call Me Crazy But I've Gotten Over 250,000 Out Of Each Of The 2 Ford Explorers I Had. Now I Have A Toyota Highlander. I Think I'm Good For A While. As Far As Your Video. SOLID ADVICE!
Should keep driving Explorer AWD SUVs. They are excellent esp w/ award winning gen2 -2.3L GTDI engine. Love our '24 Explorer AWD Timberline. Heavily updated '25 version out late this summer. Same proven engines. 💯
A lot of manufacturers in Europe are now specifying over 20,000 miles. That concerns me. Austin Rover were specifying 12,000 miles or 1 year back in 1980 on the Austin Metro, a vehicle with the old BMC A-Series and a gearbox inside the engine oil sump and sharing the engine oil. It's utter madness here, and has been for some time!
They last far longer than that. 200, 300,000. 400,000 miles all going by manufacturers recommendations. See them every day. Mines done 170,000 miles 14 years old, only ever had 10k mile changes from new it's perfectly fine. PCV is clean as whistle.
Solid advice and good facts to back it up. Have always done and will probably continue to do the first change at or before 1000 miles. Probably going to be a sourcing issue going forward, but I have only bought manual transmission cars where it is a bit easier IMO to baby the engine a bit during the break-in period. Automatic or CVT would probably be a bit harder to keep the revs in check = 500 miles is good.
@@motleydude73 doesn't matter what year it is. A new engine can have material left over from the machining and assembling process. You don't want to leave any material in the engine for 10K, I'd be changing the way before 10K anyway.
@@chrish4469 Doesn't need it. 10k is fine. As per manufacturers recommendations. 32 years in the trade I've yet see an engine fail with that service interval.Mines only ever had 10k changes runs smooth as silk with 155000 miles. But go ahead and waste good oil and spend money unneccessarily.
@@motleydude73 10K oil changes are fine if you are doing a lot of highway driving, But doing a lot of stop and start city driving is adverse conditions, It say in the owner's manual with adverse conditions drop the oil interval changes. If you are only keeping the car for five years or so, 10K intervals are ok, But if you are keeping the car until the wheels fall off, It's advised to change every 5K. Engines will last longer 300K+. Oil is cheap, Engines are not
It would be interesting to see what your single quart flush is like after flowing through your engine. Send that off to the lab next time and see how much you’re really getting! Awesome vid.
I would guess the 1 quart would drop straight through to the pan and slightly flush the pan. If the engine was shut off and immediately drained one would think there would be very little on the pan floor.
Awesome content!! Would love to see some experiments done with gas additives as well since so many experts agree that lubing crankcase alone isn't enough but when gas delivery system gets lubed constantly via gasoline additives (upper cylinder lubricants), then the wear and tear gets further reduced by some 50% and thus set your engine in for a million miles mark while still going strong (saw a few cases with my own eyes). Liked and subscribed.
I pretty much have to run the Lucas fuel additive / fuel lubricant on my 1991 Nissan Maxima. Not sure if it's because of the terrible factory injectors, or if fuel is just that inconsistent here in Mexico. If I go 2 to 3 fuel tanks without it, the engine starts to missfire and runs poorly even on premium fuel. I just keep a 1l bottle of the fuel additive in my car. What is $12 every 8 to 10 months 1L for fuel additive if it keeps my car running good.
I have heard people recommend putting a (very) small amount of ATF or 2-stroke oil in the gas as a "top lube." Not 32:1 or anything; more like 300:1 (a few fl. oz. per fill-up). I have no idea if that works, or if it's just an Old Mechanic's Tale. I do know truckers running older rigs use ATF to make up for the lower lubricity of ULSD, but they don't have cats. I do run what's left of my 2-stroke lawn gas at the end of the growing season, but that's more about me being cheap than expecting "gains" out of it.
@@JetSkiSuper7 1. 2 stroke oil is designed to be burned without ash residue. 2. ATF has a lower number of additives to foul a cat than motor oil. 3. 300:1 means about a quart of ATF or 2-stroke every 2100 miles or so. Which is less than many cars burn. (Cars with tow-tension rings can burn up to 1qt/1000 miles before it is considered "abnormal" enough to require warranty work.) 4. I probably wouldn't do this in anything new enough to monitor cat efficiency and set a code. 5. Probably not EPA legal...but if you aren't breaking the occasional law, are you really living life to the fullest?
These videos are spectacular absolutely love the content… there is a “small” group of people that love seeing this data and analysis and your knowledge and delivery is phenomenal.
Lake, hello from the Sip. Is the Toyota oil using the newer Tri-Moly or the older form of Moly? Thinking that plays a role in which base is used or needed. Much obliged.
@@dr.john-markcain4946 I can’t tell right now. However, most of the newer API SP additive packages have gone with the newer Moly additives because they offer better solubility and performance.
Of all of the videos that I have seen mechanics pouring oil from the quart bottle into the engine, you are the first one to pour the oil correctly. It would be good to point out which side of the bottle should be up so the oil doesn't spill all over the place. Thank you for all of the great information that you pass along to us.
Yes I noticed this too!! Wow this is like my 5th comment in this vid. Lots of experience and knowledge being shared with this video. Good to see and know that "old school" gear head knowledge being preserved and passed on to alleviate the symptoms of this dealer-centric era of planned obsolescence and consumerism.
My first oil change was done at 500 miles. Was taught this was the correct thing to do for many years, and I change my oil about every 4000 miles based upon time before miles.
Thanks mate a video well worth watching! This need’s a wide audience! The break in oil and even extended intervals that manufacturers are pushing for Isn’t necessarily the optimum! It’s something I’ve tried to explain but struggled to get my point across but you explain so clearly! I’d often just give up and tell them that their engine lasting longer doesn’t make me money! Btw I had a lot of fun in one of those Honda’s!
It's fun to watch the oil debates. I am going to do this one worse. When I bought a new 2000 Tacoma, I was so confident in Mobil 1 at the time, that I decided to run 7500 mile oil changes. Toyota specs the Tacoma at 5000 miles with conventional oil. I didn't do anything special with the first oil change and ran aftermarket filters, like Fram and Puralator 1. It was my daily for 8 to 10 years, after that the oil changes were an annual event instead of a mileage event. After 23 years of ownership I sold the Toyota because the frame was starting to look suspect from rust. Anyway, with 196K on the truck, the motor seemed the same as when I purchased it. The engine didn't consume any more oil than any other time that I owned it. I know there was wear, but it didn't seem consequential. If the frame wasn't rusting out, I am confident that truck would have gone 300k or more. My point is, how long are you going to keep your vehicle. Are you going to see 300k, 400k or more mileage from that vehicle? Or will the rest of the vehicle let you down, like mine did. Of course that motor is known for 300k. Funny thing is, it had some pretty bad wear numbers compared to other vehicles I have had. Only my first gen Mini Cooper was worse.
Good point. The method shown in this video seems wasteful to me. I did the first oil change in my '22 Camry at 4,400 miles under Toyota care, which I thought was a good compromise. The service advisors thought I was a fanatic for not waiting until 10k like it shows in the manual. And that is what most owners do, so most of the cars on the road never see an oil change for the first 7k to 10k. Either way, the engine is going to last well over 100k, and I'm not going to keep the car that long.
Great perspective. My 13 year old Honda Civic is very much in its early days mechanically but the clearcoat has all but disappeared on the trunk and some other areas. I've seen other Civics which look far worse. So it's fair to say that the body will probably need repairs before the engine/transmission does!
Every motorcycle we sold back including 80's and 90's, had to have a 500 mile service, then at 3000 mile intervals . . . I still have 80's bikes now which are on "untouched" - for rebuild or repair work- engines, which I never changed oils later than 1500miles on every interval, so that process has worked for me over about 45 years! Great content, please keep it coming!😎
I did my first Honda oil change at 10k. Iron was 29 (vs your 13), aluminum was 19 (vs your 13), and copper was 13 (vs your 40). So two out of three were worse, but not astronomically, and I’m not worried.
and realistically, the engine is going to outlast the rest of the car. Spending that much on changing the oil just doesnt make sense unless your an oil enthusiast and want to see whats going on with the wear.
God bless you for clarifying this!!! Back in the days when Popular Mechanic magazine was around, even the engineers suggested you do the initial oil change at 250 miles THEN another one at 1000 miles. I personally do the first oil change on my new cars at 500 miles myself, never waiting 3 or 5000k miles.
Great idea I have done for years on the first oil change at 1 k then change my filter only at 3k then do the regular oil change at every 5k with synthetic oil. On my vehicle and my company service van I have never had a single engine issue for those 7 service vehicles of which I always drive to 250k before getting another. He’s right about the initial wear in the first 500-1000 miles so do like he says for a great long lasting vehicle!
Great info. Thank you! Curious, it says on manual that 0w-16 can be use if you can’t find 0w-8 temporarily but on the next oil change, go back to 0w-8 (5:59 mark). Will you go back to the original oil or stick with 0w-16? Your findings did say the additives on both oils are identical. Thank you again for the info.
my speculation on that would be that a thicker oil would be harder for the pump to circulate and and move around the engine. It would be mostly fine because the oil is within spec but probably there would be a slight drop on the fuel economy as the car is making a higher effort to move the oil around and probably some extra friction. I think it would be good to eventually move back to the original oil when possible to aid in the longevity of the oil pump and maybe when the car is at a higher mileage with more wear probably go back to the thicker oil to compensate for the wear.
@@Hartbreak1 If you look at subsequent UOA reports he was using much heavier oils like 10w-40. You need to freeze the video at just the right spots to see it. Just wondering why.... did I miss something?
Thanks for the awesome info! First I've heard of 0w 8 oil. Curious to learn more about this stuff. Interesting to see that Toyota oil continues to have crazy high Molybdenum in even the newest oil. The closest off the shelf oil I can find is Valvoline advanced high milage at around half the Moly and Boron of the Toyota oil (350 moly and 150 Boron) But that still puts those numbers about 3x higher than other off the shelf stuff. I have a toyota V6 with 190K miles on it and I've used Pennzoil Ultra platinum in it for the last 20K but the moly number in that is under 100 and this makes me think Toyota really loves Moly in their engines? I think I may switch to toyota oil on the next change.
Older BMW M cars require an oil change at 1000km, then 5000km (if I recall correctly). They also require fairly light usage in that first 1000km and varying RPM (no cruise control for long drives), then the threshold goes up until you hit 5000km. After that point you’re free to give full gas and go to red line.
These are great videos. It’s nice to hear from someone with real credentials. Now I’d like to hear your theory on what was happening to all the cams wiping out so often in the late 70s and early 80s. New cars and aftermarket cams. Was it the oil or the materials that changed then? Thanks!
I change engine oil and filter at before about 400 miles. Then conventional oil till about 2000. Then full synthetic and new filter there on out. Never more than 5K on oil and filter. Labs are good and could go to 7500.
That conventional oil for 2k after dumping the factory fill is a cool idea! Get the rest of the break in cycle done with conventional so the rings get a chance to continue seating in and such
it iz ALL about the $$$... my '16 lexus nx200t came w/m1... changed 2 AMSOIL & could tell difference b4 going 1 block, now i also get GREAT gas milage... 😁
Here's the link to see the results from the 2nd oil change: ruclips.net/video/X4424Q5lLR8/видео.html
I would be more concerned about the transmission lasting the life of the car than worrying about the engine. Was the trans fluid changed at 500?
Also this data only shows bedding in taking place, how do you know removing the oil early hasn't adversely affected the bedding in process by removing wear particles that may assist in the bedding in.
Although I suspect no difference in useful engine life by doing this, if it did make a positive difference who is benefiting? The 4th owner? The scrap yard selling the engine?
More likely the rubber seals in the engine fail or that is out of date and replacing with an ev or new car makes more sense before the engine wears out if maintained correctly
Lastly I wouldn't want to risk affecting the warranty of the car by changing the oil oneself.
Just following the manufacturers schedule seems the best course of action.
@AK-pu2gm - I agree with you. Some manufacturers such as Honda and Ford provide guidance to their dealer network to NOT change the FF early on some models. They claim the asperities in the oil actually help accelerate the bedding process.
If you live where there is no snow the 0W16 oil will work fine, as the engine oil with 0W8 is really for cold climates, and for fuel economy, as the engine is not really much changed for the last decade, where it was fine to use 10W30 oil, but the lighter oil relates to a slightly better fuel economy in testing.
@@Godspeed931from the first video, the used oil analysis of the 0W8 FF vs the virgin oil analysis of the 0w16 looked basically identical. not sure there's anything special about the initial FF
@@AK-pu2gm I make my living machining and building engines and transmissions and I've been doing that since the late '70s. The fact is the only thing that needs to bed in is the rings and with today's prelapped rings and modern honing techniques that happens in the first few full-throttle accelerations. The piston ring manufacturer's recommended procedure to seat the rings on a new engine is to warm them up at a then do a few light load accelerations then 3-5 full throttle accelerations each time closing the throttle abruptly to scavenge the cylinder walls clean. That's what we do on the dyno and with engines that didn't see the dyno.
After the break in we drop the pan to check the bearings if everything is ok we put in new oil and send it. The fact is every engine shop in the entire world will tell you to change the oil after the first 50 miles or less because that is when the engine sheds huge amounts of large particles that will damage the surfaces. That has been scientifically proven to occur.
For maximum engine life on new cars, I recommend you change the oil and filter before the first 50 miles and then again at 500.
No one has ever dressed so classy to change oil. Keep up the great videos!
LOL, Thanks!
My wife would skin me alive!
I think he should have worn a tux while changing the oil.
yeah no matter how hard i try with lining up the drain pan,, there's always at least a few little splatters here and there.. I don't think in the perhaps hundred maybe even 200 oil changes i've done, there's not been at least a few splatters either on my clothes (always in garage rags) or on the floor.
hahahahaha!
My Dad taught me that oil is cheap but engines are expensive. That advice has always served me well.
Great point!
You can pick up an engine for $800, which is what a lot of idiots on this thread seem to spend on oil every year by changing it every 1000 miles 🤣 10k is perfectly fine.
well not so cheap any more. the price of 5 liters of oil is now north of 60$ in nazi europe.
@@motleydude73yeah and that new engine is guaranteed to be good and the work to install it is free /s
@@artemzhirkov3295 They often do come with a warranty for a certain time, and install can be done in a few hours, but needing a new engine is extremely rare. You really have to neglect it badly for a long time. Or it has inherent design faults like Hyundai and Kia do.
If you cange your own oil, one of the most overlooked places for contamination is the new filter threads. Next time you change your oil, take a clean towel and wipe out the threads in the new oil filter. I have found many iron flakes and shards in the threads of all brands of oil filters.
Excellent comment! Great advice! 👍
the last mobil 1 filter I bought had a few huge metal splinters in those threads. scary
Don't have to worry about that with Mercedes-Benz and chrystler
Great advice. Thank you sir.
Yup - literally changed my oil 10 minutes ago and this is true
Good content- l not only completely agree I change mine at either 500 or 1k miles on my new cars
He's spot on. Any engine machinist like myself stands by this. You'd be surprised at how much filings come out.
Thanks!
As a 43 year retired mechanic I can attest to the accuracy of the information in this video. This guy is spot on!
As a mechanic for 32 years I can attest he's talking nonsense. Absolute joke. Just telling people to waste their money and perfectly good oil. Funny how cars that have only ever been serviced as per manufacturers recommendations run perfectly fine for many decades and hundreds of thousands of miles.
Thanks for sharing your many years of experience opinion. I've been with my current employer for 40 years now, and I know for a fact there is no replacement for experience. I'm gonna change the oil on my new car next weekend. Cheers
@@deanb3033 Unless it's done 10k miles you're just wasting good oil and money.
@@motleydude73 have you been an idiot for all the 32 years or just recently, this video literally shows proof and you think it's wrong? Good job
@@motleydude73so you believe all break in materials are caught in the filter, and there’s in fact no way said materials are sustained in the oil? That’s the purpose of the video- showing proof with the analysis and giving unbiased education. I guess the only discussion would be do those materials matter if left til 10k miles….
It's really nice to see the impact of the early oil changes quantified for once!
I'm glad this was helpful.
They started having oil burning issues at 100 k plus AFTER they started the 10 k OCI..Forrest Gump is smarter.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing this. I have a question concerning oil in my CTS V. I get the oil changed at the dealership and they use the same Dexos 5w30 that is used in all the other GM cars. But I am concerned that with the high performance engine / heat that the supercharger might be producing if there might be a better choice for this engine. What about the oil that remains in the supercharger when the engine is cut off after driving. I’m just driving normally most of the time, nothing crazy or extreme. Thank you !
Charles Rhea MD
@@charlesrhea6810 Turbos produce a lot of heat, but superchargers shouldn't, they are using power from the belt, not from the exhaust gases, and have a heat exchanger as well.
Nothing new here. I heard all of this 55 years ago when I started working on cars.
If you have a dealer free oil change every 5 k miles ...Mark your oil filter to VERIFY it was changed, just saying
It sounds like a good idea but not sure how to do that with a filament only filter (permanent housing)
@@kamakaziozzie3038you can use torque seal or bolt mark where the filter housing meets the engine. If they changed it, the seal will be separated/snapped
Absolutely! When I had a brand new TRD Tacoma I took it to the dealership for the first oil change. They said they changed the oil but when I popped the hood, same mud covered filter.
Mark it by scratching it lightly with a file. If you use a marker they got chemicals and cleaners not saying they’ll go so far as to clean off marker but you really want to be sure they changed the filter
@@kamakaziozzie3038 I share your concern, and have type canister filter. What I do is use a silver sharpie and draw 2 small lines on the filter housing and filter housing contact service, they rarely mount it back to the exact same place. Plus this tells me if they over tightened it
Great advice and excellent presentation .79 years old EX 1980 UK donnington GT champion . still doing my own car servicing .not as flexible as I used to be .. I still enjoy the mechanicing . a recent 2 post car lift is awaiting the heavy duty concrete slab to be prepared .
Thank you!
I could not agree more. The same procedure should be performed on all new equipment. Whether it is a ride-on lawn mower, car or truck to all the compartments of an excavator, wheel loader etc.
GREAT ADVICE.
Right on
@@themotoroilgeek 500 miles on a lawnmower is a long time.;) Is the 5 hours recommended on my generator (or other air cooled small engines) ok or should should it be done sooner, especially as most don't have oil filters.
@@glennfrancis9031 LOL, an hour or two is sufficient in that application.
Yes you are right. My BULLDOG zero turn states to change oil after first 5h. THEN every 15-20 or roundabouts thereafter.
ALSO
my Polaris states there is also break in oil change.
i brought my son a new Honda Crf 125, it does not run an oil filter so i see it absolutely necessary to change out the oil on break in as the metal debris can float around a lot easier. same with most push mowers
My uncle, a lifelong mechanic beginning in World War I, taught me to change the oil in 500-1000 miles. Break-in change was standard 100 years ago. I’ve followed this advice with all of my new cars. I’ve never had an oil related engine problem.
Right on!
Yea, engines and oils have improved somewhat since 100 years ago 🤣 No break in change is needed these days. I do first change at 10k. Never had oil related problems either. Why on earth would I?
I've drank a bottle of jack daniels with the first oil change in every car I've had. I've never had an engine oil related problem. I think the evidence speaks for itself. :p
@@motleydude73 How long have you kept your cars doing oil change intervals like that?
@@piperpilot26 About 6 years on average. Current one for 13 years which I bought new in 2010. Been driving since 1989. Back then the normal interval was 6k when mineral oil was the main type.
This made my night, I started my maintenance career as an "oiler" and I got super geeky about it. It is refreshing to see someone that understands and can bring that knowledge to the masses. Thank you very much.
Thank you! Oil geeks unite!
I was a senior manager in one of the big three in the US. One of the departments that I was responsible for is the fluids department which involves oil and other lubricants. We analyze thousands of oil samples every year from engines from dyno testing, from vehicles running durability, form employee lease vehicles, from rental fleet and from warranty. We also review teardowns of many of these engines. We do this with various oils both synthetic and conventional. I couldn't agree with you more. Our testing shows a continuous reduction in metal content as a function of miles. with every oil change. The worst is the first oil samples with low vehicle mileage. I tell friends and family to have a couple of oil changes after 2000 and 5000 miles and not to wait for the engine oil monitor to kick in which is programmed to go off at 10,000 miles or less. I tell my engineers; in God we trust but everyone else bring data and you did just that.
Thanks for sharing!
It does imply that the additional particles actually decrease engine life in a relevant manner.
How's it going Do you know if stop start oil can be used in a car without stop start, would it cause any issues
What is missing is the tie to “premature” engine failure or other signs of a compromised engine. The oil gets dirty quickly on a new car. Got it. But what are the quantified impacts to engine life / performance?
@@hbullock I have looked at thousands of data points from our oil testing program and never saw an engine fail because of the high metal content from the initial engine break-in period. I have seen engines that failed, and metal debris starts showing up in the oil because the customers didn't replace the oil when they were supposed to or used an unapproved cheap oil. One series of engines failed because the low viscosity oil that was specified resulted in bearing wear which could be detected as high amounts of copper in the oil. These engines had to be replaced. With that said, recently, Toyota recalled 100,000 trucks and Lexus vehicles and is replacing their engines due to high metal debris that was left from the manufacturing process.
I worked as a mechanic for over 40 years and always offered a free oil change after the first 500 miles on all rebuilds. My personal opinion is it is crazy to go 10k miles on break in oil
No such thing as break in oil except on motorbikes. 40 years and you didn't know that? 🤦🤣
You are right. Break in oil is designed to be changed after a few hundred miles. Even new cars with "normal" oil should be changed within the first few hundred miles.
Some decades ago, let's say in the beginning of the nineties, modern engines did last very long even without doing an early oil change during break in.
Manufacturers like Volkswagen did not advise you anymore of cautious driving during the break in period.
Before that in the eighties you need to very careful break the engine in. You had a table which told you the max allowed speed for each gear (Germany) up to the first 650 miles. From then up to 1400 miles you could increasingly drive faster but still only if the engine was in operating temperature.
Better manufacturing technics together with hi-tech oils have been probably the reason why they got rid of that.
So for the average customer there was no need to change your break in oil earlier nor did you have to take care of certain speeds.
Current engines seem to not last very long anymore. I believe that very good oil and some basic rules when driving should be sufficent.
But I can imagine that more frequent oil changing intervals will have a positive effect on longevity.
A friend once told me that you can feel the status of your oil when you take a drop of the dipstick and rub it between thumb and pointer finger.
The less smooth it feels the more used it is. Never tried it but I believe that because the log chained molecules become more and more broken and got worn out.
Hi quality oil which is above the standards given by the manufacturer could probably do a pretty good job in keeping your engine in good health.
@@markleggett3944 No it shouldn't, what a waste. 10k first change is fine.
@motleydude73 YOU ARE 100% WRONG. Engine builders use it all the time kid. Facts.
I just bought a 23’ Toyota Crown hybrid and had to haggle with the dealership to change my oil at 5,000 miles. But I insisted I wanted to do it despite what the owner’s manual said. This is the first car I’ve purchased with my own hard earned money that’s 100% in my name. I want this car to last me awhile, so I’m sticking with the 5,000 mile oil change interval, no matter how much I have to fight with the dealership lol.
I did my first oil change at 2000 miles. It's a 2023 Honda Civic. NO haggle at all. They never said a word. My first 2 years of oil changes are free. I'll do mine at 4000-mile intervals.
Why tf are they haggling YOU about something YOU want done? Ridiculous.
And stop going to dealerships. Places like Meinike are good
if the dealership gives you hard time, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! A mechanic wouldnt say no to getting paid. Heck, even a "handy man" wouldnt say no to a quick $30 in labor. Glad you resolved, but stick to your guns. You want the car to outlive you if possible haha
@@dbzownz12345 Unless the servicing is logged, he has receipts, or the service book is stamped he will void his new car warranty.
10k changes are perfectly fine unless you're driving it in extreme conditions.
finally an expert acknowledges the need to change oil early during the break-in period. I always did my first at 1k but will follow your recommendation and go with 500 miles. thanks for posting!
Did my 23 4Runner at 899 miles... It was a lot of micro-sized prearlescence in the oil. I did the quart flush too. Glad I did it and I find it remarkable that people argue against it...
5k oil changes from now on!
Right on!
10k is perfectly fine. Stop wasting perfectly good oil listening to the moron in the video. Your engine isn't going to fail or blow up.
@@kimbuck-2 What for? Isn't your vehicle brand new? Don't need to worry about oil changes for another 9000 miles. Doing anything yourself will void your warranty.
@@kimbuck-2 Why not? They're experienced technicians trained to work specifically on your brand. Good luck if you need anything fixed under warranty in the next 5 years they'll laugh at you.
@@motleydude73 Wrong. It will not void your warranty. Stop spreading lies
I took delivery of my 2006 Toyota Sienna and by the time it hit 2000 miles It already had three oil changes. At 10k miles it had six oil changes. It now has 221k miles and drives like new. Recently I sent an oil sample for analysis and it came back perfect !
Right on!
My 06 sienna is on 330 and still good
If you use good oil you can achieve that same feat in less oil changes.
Wow! I'm not as fastidious as you are, but I bet your engine is super clean.
I purchased a new 2023 Chevy Malibu with a 1.5 liter turbo ! I completed one (1) trip down south from the northeast, and did the initial oil change at 1900 miles. An oil analysis sample reported the engine is breaking in properly. I didn't reset the oil life monitor! The dealer told me bring in the vehicle when the oil life is around 20%, or 6000 miles. I will still go to the dealer for the so-called courtesy free initial oil change and will not tell them I already did (1) oil change. I did this before with other new vehicle purchases. Bottom line, YES, absolutely do an initial break in oil change, if not at 500 miles, sometime around 1500-2000 miles ! If your keeping the vehicle don't wait for the 5000-7000 mile initial oil change. Do one in between !
Right on!
Good move, no need to tell the dealer and hurt their feeling.
I bought an outlander last yr. They tried to tell me every 10,000. I change it at 4-5,000 miles. And bring it in every 10,000 for my free service.
@@Randomthings321go My plan also.
I had a different Toyota dealership perform the last free/complimentary oil change. When I performed the next oil change, I discovered:
- they over tightened the oil filter housing
- they over tightened the drain plug
- They cross threaded 4 skid plate bolts. Two of them broke when I tried removing them.
- I dont usually remove the "secondary" oil filter cap...the little metal cap that allows you to drain oil out of the filter housing so it does not make such a mess when you remove the actual filter housing. So it was two or three oil changes later when I discovered that the dealership didnt re0lace the gaslet for the "secondary" oil filter cap.
Do your own maintenance and make sure you know how to do it properly.
I cringed a little when he said he was going to take it to the dealer. They use nematic tools to start nuts and bolts. Bad idea.
My Honda dealer has an Express Lube facility. I watch them like a hawk but haven't noticed any irregularity. I've had all of the long term employees do my oil changes and they've appeared to be very conscientious. I have a full synthetic Honda oil change done on our 2023 Honda Passport, multi-point inspection that they actually do for $79 with a service special. I've got 275K on my 2005 Pilot with 5K conventional oil changes. It uses maybe a half quart between changes to this day. I bought the Passport because it fit our needs plus the 3.5 time tested engine has been around for ages.
@davidanderson8469
I've not had a problem with a 2nd dealership (the one a bought the Tacoma from). But the one closer to my house is the one that screwed-up.
I had a Honda dealership work on the 2004 Tacoma that I used to own and they kept telling me the truck had a problem that it didn't actually have. I paid they $750 to fix a nonexistent problem. When that didn't resolve the issue, they claimed it had yet another problem that did not exist and wanted another $750. I refused the service and brought the truck to a local shop. He called me and told me the truck was ready...the oil leak was from a loose front differential drain plug and there was no charge.
Exactly why I do all of my own maintenance. I know what I'm getting, including the oil, filter and how long the oil was drained before filling.
Thank you for this video. Funny enough - 4 years I received a company car which happened to be a corolla - on the day I got it from the Toyota dealership the sales guy told me to show up in 15k km (approx 9300 miles). As it is a company car it has got a lot of km to drive. The very first drive was 900km with a stop to fill up. And already on the second day after receiving the car I was already driving with the speed of more than 150km/h (>90mph). And then I didn't calculate properly the distances and showed up for the very first oil change (after 6 weeks of driving) with almost 20k km on the clock. Within the 3 years I was driving it (C19 made it a bit complicated at that time LOL) I made almost 280k km (170k miles) and nothing ever broke or there were not issues at all with the car. It was sold to one of the company employees and now it is stil driving fine with 300k km. So yes, toyotas are really well put together cars :)
i no it has motor noise
Your experience kinda debunks this whole video. I would just follow the manufacturer recommendation.
@@winjaywin He did not say that the engine will fly into pieces. It will just wear out faster. I have seen Corollas that consume oil most likely to infrequent oil changes.
Thanks for bringing clarity to an often debated question. In the past I had always changed my new vehicle oil at 500 miles but had gotten away from the 500 mile and moved to less than 3000. I now have justification for changing the oil in my new Silverado HD 6.6 gas engine at 600 miles instead of waiting. You also validated my practice of filling the new oil filter. I have made this a practice for many years, especially when I was working on the big trucks at work. I appreciate you generosity in sharing your knowledge.
I'm glad it was helpful!
This seems gets rid of the the metal chips left over from matching. Also should get rid of the assembly lube grease that may contaminate oil filter. I've been doing this a long time on new engines even lawn mowers.
No debate just change it as per manufacturer recommendations not taking some geeks advice on youtube! He's just costing you money and you're wasting good oil.
@@motleydude73rather waste good oi than a good engine
@@rogerdodrill4733 Why would your engine fail? You americans are uber paranoid about oil it's laughable. Just chuck fresh stuff in every 10k miles and drive it your engine will be fine. In my 32 years in the trade I've yet to see an engine have catastrophic failure because the owner stuck to manufacturer recommendations. They built the engine they kinda know best huh.
I was raised in Jackson, Mississippi and am now 72 years old. I have lived in Colorado for over 40 years, but I do remember your father. The older brother of one of my good friends knew Lake Speed. My undergraduate study was Chemical Engineering at Mississippi State University. BTW, I ended up attending medical school at the University of Mississippi Medical School. Unfortunately, I don't remember much chemical engineering these days, but I have many fond memories of those days. Thank you for your academic and accurate information. As I'm sure you know, it's not so easy to know who is telling the "truth" these days!
It's pretty easy to know when the seller of a product says to maintain it less...
I just left UMMC - faculty surgery - research division - 3 years ago after going back to MS after 13 years in MO. Small world.
My grandfather worked for GM in Kansas City during the 40s and 50s and he gave me the exact same advice.
KCMO.GM.plant.my Dad worked there the 60.z.Bobby Bell the football for kC Chiefs.player also worked there.in the 60z
I sent a oil sample to Speed he was spot on he detected high silicone levels in my oil. The silicone was from the oil pan gasket that my mechanic replaced my mechanic went a little heavy in the silicone. Because of this oil analysis I dumped and did a complete oil change. Silicone acts as an abrasive.
Thanks for sharing!
@@themotoroilgeek 😁😊
Even if you measure out the exact width of rtv the service manual states to use there's going to be high silicone content in the oil for the first couple oil changes
@firstlast--- Speed is awesome he was spot on with the lab results! 😁😎
Silicone or silicon? Not the same thing…
Probably one of the best knowledgeable basic recommendations to change the oil by the first 500 miles for any new car or truck is how exactly what my father taught me well… Kudos
Pointless expense.
Being an avid car true collector of the Vintage Volkswagens and few 911 Porsches; As well as newer Toyota 4Runners, and Tacoma trucks for over 20 years has given the actual professional level of experience and a real sheepskin to know that your facetious lazy comment being just an oxymoron, whereas you MotleyDude are wrong … C’est la vie
@motleydude73 not true....break in oil has high zinc content and should be changed at the 500mile mark on a new vehicle..after that,normal intervals is fine(5000)
@@mikekopisz1227 That's motorbikes. Absolutely no need. And 10k is fine.
@@motleydude73hum ,10k engine replacement or $50 oil change huummmmmmmmm I'm thinking about it.!!!!
Love it, keeps it simple, no fancy battery power tools. No lift! And finally someone else dedicates a quart to flush through the motor! My wife and friends laugh when I do it to mine.
I also pour a little oil to chase out the contaminated oil but I think a quart is too much, it's a waste, when you pour that oil into the crankcase it's only going to flow down one passageway into the crankcase, it's not going to flow throughout the entire engine. I just pour maybe 10 fluid oz. or so.
Thanks! Now you can tell them you aren’t crazy! LOL
I have done this for years, oil is cheap when balanced against the cost of major repairs or replacements.
Ya?
Well, let them pay for a new engine and see if they still feel like laughing. Ha Ha Ha
I also do it and everybody wonders why I have to be so “crazy” about it.
Why wouldn’t you flush out the last bit of debris?
I completely agree. I'm 75, still do all my work on my vehicles and I always change the oil on new vehicles several times before what the owner's manual says. I ignore the manual recommendations. This same principal applied to the bevel box on my shaft driven motorcycle - sort of like a differential on a four wheel vehicle. At 100 miles, I drained the gear oil. It was black and contained wear in metals. I changed it again after another 200 miles. It was still fairly black and contained some bit less wear in metals. Changed it again after another 500 miles and it was almost like it came fresh out of the bottle. Now I change it at every oil change and it's always like new. Believe it or not, the manual says the first change should be at 40,000 miles!!! Ridiculous! I do essentially the same with motor oils and my engines seem to last forever. I buy cars new so I know how they've been maintained and I keep them usually for over 20 years. By then, the body is rusted but the engines run like new. Listen to this guy. He knows what he's talking about.
I really wish I found this video a month ago. I brought my Corolla home at the end of November and just passed 1,000 miles on the 23rd. Now I need to order some oil and filters.
Really good to see you telling people this . I'm a performance engine builder and I will give a motor a oil change right on the test stand or dyno after 30 minutes, than in the car and 100 miles than again at 500. And I would never run any oil in anything for 7 or 10k thats emissions propaganda. I also do trans and rear end oil very often. Often
Thanks for sharing!
Yes thanks for sharing! Good to know all this great info from everyone, info that has seemed to have been lost in this modern age of consumerism and planned obsolescence.
Not emissions propaganda, it's the cost of ownership to 36k miles (or whatever milage the writer calculates.) The second reason is factory paid maintenance. The millions of dollars extra they'd spend for an extra oil change for 125,000 vehicles if interval is dropped 2500 mi and the vehicle gets 1 or 2 more changes is big reason. I worked corporate for a manufacturer and no emissions consideration was involved. In Europe the story is different.
@jimmyaber5920 0W-8 has to be emissions nonsense though. So thin that it's ridiculous.
How would oil with more miles on it reduce emissions? Sounds like a faulty theory
I usually download the South American owners manual for my car(same exact engine) and check the oil weight listed and that will tell you this incredibly thin oil is strictly for USA CAFE standards, not engine longevity. In many other countries for that exact engine the manual calls for up to 5w30 oil.
Thanks for sharing!
That figures.
I can attest to this also for Transmission Fluids. I rebuilt a 2003 GMC Sierra 2500HD and also a 2006 Chevy Silverado 2500HD both have the same transmissions (4L80E) and the 2006 called for (different) thinner fluid but I put the thicker transmission fluid as was used in the 2003 GMC. For people who say well the clearances are tighter so you need to use the thinner oil. These were the exact same transmission down to every last seal, etc. The USA CAFE standards along with these rip off companies are destroying the vehicles and getting maybe slightly better gas mileage from maybe a little less friction. Hence why they say in the manual for this Toyota to do the first oil change before 10k, if they were honest they would say 500 miles and send this video to every buyer of their product.
@@usapilot78 so true. I don’t know who started this tolerance myth but it’s been proven wrong.
I bought a 2007 Toyota Yaris 18 years ago I did the same old change intervals as you did I now have 622000 miles on the car and it still runs good
Wow you've put in some serious seat time.
And if you're using such a thin oil, your bearing clearances and internal clearances are very tight. Which means it's even more sensitive to engine debris causing damage. Good call, thanks for the video.
Great point!
And with such tight bearing clearances for 0w-8/16 oil it’s also very important to not ever run too thick of a viscosity oil too like for ex a 5w30 or worse yet 10-30 o,5-40,10-40,yikes!/LOL!
The motor can obviously handle 16wt viscosity when the oils up to full op temp so if I owned a new car that rec ow-8 or 16 oil & lived in a warmer climate like Fl often using ac loading motor more & creating more heat I’d be running (if they make it ) 5-w-16 or slightly higher cold
viscosity oil like 5w-20 & here’s why I say that.
In my wife’s when new 2018 RAV4 Toyota wanted us to go 10k miles an oil change inc 1st breakin oil change ,not me!
I changed oil & filter at 1k miles & again at 5k miles using m1 0-20 full syn.
What alarmed me was (esp having 50yrs Exp rebuilding muscle car motors & restoring car with motor oil & its analysis being a hobby of sorts for me) was that with only 4K miles on the m1 0-20 it was pitch black & had heavy burnt order to it which wasn’t good imho.
But I put more m1 0-20 full syn in it for next 5k miles to total 10k mikes on the motor & that oil looked & smelled worse with only 5k miles on it being full m1 oil.
This oil seemed as though it could not handle the everyday heat & driving here in ny which aren’t that bad but with a still relatively new low mile motor the oil should not be pitch black smelling burnt.
I never liked 0w oil base Wt oil in full syn & thought I better try moving to a 5w-20 m1 fully syn where it has a little better protection against heat & shear having a more robust 5w base oil.
Well that did the trick because the next 5k miles on it & it never turned blk looking med tan color with no burnt smell & could still see marks on dipstick thru the oil too.
Fast for word to 60k miles today changing m1 5-20 full syn oil & filters every 5K miles and the oil has never been black or smelled burnt at 5k mile changes like the 0-20 did which tells me the 0w base Wt in 0-20 & it’s additive pkg can’t handle the heat etc in 5k miles turning blk & smelling burnt where 5w-20 oil from same mfg never turned blk smelling burnt in same 5k mile oil changes in same motor in same use cond to yrs later now at 60k miles changing the oil & filter every 5k miles.
Btw,this car/motor see’s mult trips from ny to fl yearly where the motors pushed hard with ac on at high speeds for hrs at a time & in fl heat in traffic with ac on & the m1 5w-20 never turns blk or smells burnt with now 60k miles on the motor at 5k Mike oil changes,motor doesn’t use or burn any oil in 5k miles too!
I know I made the right call/choice to not use the m1 0w base Wt oil in our RAV4 when I saw it turn blk & smell burnt in 4-5k miles where 5w-20 never turns blk or even dark brown & never smells burnt even at 5k miles like the 0-20 always did. Yes oil analysis would have been nice to have but I was in a position where I had to change the oil on the spot with no sample kits at home at the time to collect a sample.
But seeing the drastic diff in color of the 2 oils in same mileage with one smelling very burnt & the other not smelling burnt at all looking nice tan color & not blk told me with just going from 0w to 5w that the lighter 0w base Wt oil can’t handle heat & stress as well as the 5w base Wt oil could with i would assume both those oils having basic same additive pkgs past the diff in base/cold W Wt.
Keep up the great work you you do on oils educating us on tech etc.
Happy motoring!
Scott
Even more reasons not to follow a 10k oil changing schedule.
Not necessarily…
It's really sad seeing people go 10-12k miles between oil changes on these cars. You see it all the time checking the service records on these cars. They will be (1+ quart per 1k miles) oil burners by 100 -130k on the odometer.
Thanks for the info!
Today I changed the oil & filter on my new car just before hitting 500 miles.
Love the videos, Lake. Question: What oil are you using in your Porsche? My oil story: I own a 2006 Honda Element that I bought new. Now I am old school so I change my oil every 6 months or 5K, whichever comes first. I don't drive like I did when younger so for the past 4 years at 6 months I only put between 1K and 2K on the oil. Yes I am using a 0W-20 synthetic. Oil is cheap. The Element has 230,000 miles on it and still does not leak or use oil. Shooting for 500K if I live that long.
Thanks for the kind words. I use the Driven DI30 in my current Porsche.
10k oil changes are just a gimmick the manufacturer uses to advertise a lower cost of ownership
Dig ding ding!
Ding ding ding!
After seeing the inside after just about every GM car in my area from the early 20 teens, none of my oil will ever see more than 5k. That's using Amsoil too.
the 10k oil changes are to satisfy the EPA environmental requirements. nothing more nothing less. if you follow the recommended oil changes from the manufacturer you are damaging your engine.
I’m a dealership Mopar parts guy. I’ve been telling customers to ignore that oil change meter for years. After break in normal use I tell customers 5-6k max with synthetic, 3k for spirited or harder use. Change after racing or hard core use like heavy towing.
People really need to still treat their cars lightly during the first 500 miles. Especially performance cars. Dodge actually put it in the manual.
Great info. Very informative. 2012 G37, original owner, 113K miles,first oil change at 3900 miles, now using 0W40 Mobil1,which has reduced a small amount of oil burn compared to, the recommended 5W30(Mobil1). I will start flushing with clean oil between changes as you suggested. 0W-8 makes me cringe!
Glad it helped!
Give liqui moly molygen a try, full synthetic and improved fuel economy, mobil 1 is notorious for oil burning no matter what car I've had
I’m pretty obsessive about oil changes but even I wouldn’t do the first change at 500 miles. 1000 to 1500 maybe with subsequent change every 5k with full synthetic.
5k intervals is absolutely not “obsessive” 😂 im doing every 2500 on my gr corolla and did first oil change at 700 miles.
@@brandon9491 Yea that's ridiculously obsessive. 10k miles is fine.
@@motleydude73 10k on this motor would be considered abusive lmao, toyota recommends 5k but considering im gonna be beating on it ill just do every 2500. Easy enough and only cost me like $35.
@@brandon9491 Toyota generally recommend 10k. I work on them every day. Abusive? It's perfectly fine. You're gaining nothing by doing excessive changes. 5k is recommended for the new GR.
@@motleydude73 yes, that is why i said on my gr corolla 💀 10k interval on this motor is 100% considered abusive
Well done. Clear, concise and informative without any unnecessary content.
Is the “3 months or XXXX mileage” matter as much anymore? Should we be concerned about getting our oil changed by month’s calculation or stick to mileage? Thank you for breaking this down for us!!!!
I have a 2023 Highlander. Put 3000 miles on a trip to Florida. At 6000 mi says it needs service. I brought it to the dealer . They said we are rotating the tires but not changing the oil. Took it to my mechanic for an oil change. Not 500 mi but better than 10,000. Subscribed.
Right on!
Manufacturers used to recommend a pretty comprehensive break-in procedure. They all used "break-in oil". I remember the first change being at 1000 miles, not 500, but it probably varied over time and from one manufacturer to another. During that 1000 miles you were advised to not rev high and to not run the engine at a steady RPM for long periods. But most important was that 1st oil change.
Thanks for sharing!
Was that in the 1970s? 🤣
@@motleydude73 It was like this through the 90s as well. And even the early 2000s. You'll need to troll a little harder 😉
@@promethbastard No it wasn't. I started my automotive apprenticeship in 1993. No cars had 'break in' changes. The first change was always at 10,000 kms. These days it's 15000. I bought a new Honda Accord in 1995 first change was due at 10000. A break in period was recommended but not early oil changes.
@@motleydude73 Interesting, although I would say "It wasn't for you" - it was pretty much a known/given thing with the people I hung around.
Your experience isn't the experience of others.
I referenced this video in a Euro car forum & all holy hell broke out. People, despite hard/fast lab results (science), will STILL fight & die on the hill of engines have already been broken in now at the factories.... it's akin to arguing water isn't wet but they don't let that get in their way of arguing the un-argable.
My 2025 Trax owners manual has a break in process for the first 500 miles on the motor.
I do not understand that thinking at all. If you are wrong the worst is you have spent a few extra dollars on oil and filters. That is still way cheaper than an engine rebuild 15 years down the road. Still driving my 2002 Dodge Ram I bought new. I change the oil every 3,000 miles.
My 4Runner manual says to break it in for 1000 miles
Best vehicle I ever had 88 jeep 4 litre straight six.
Changed my new Jeep oil at 500 miles.
Drove it 34 years and then it drove from Ca. to Norther Michigan
where it !ives now.
GREAT advice! I remember all the metal in my oil at only 500 miles.
Never went more than 3,000 miles between changes.
Thanks for sharing
I've just finished my third oil change on my wife's 22 Cherokee 3.2L Pentastar engine. On my other cars I can use FilterMags on the outside of the metal oil filter can, but on this design engine I can't do that, so I installed a magnetic drain plug at first oil change at around 1300 miles. At 2nd oil change(5k odo), I was a little surprised at how much iron was picked up. At 3rd oil chg(9300 mile odo), I was even more surprised at how much iron dust has been picked up by the mag drain plug. I don't think many people are aware how much fugitive iron dust is circulating in a modern "all aluminum" DOHC engine.
This reminded me that I need to change oil in my daily. I don't have good access to oil tests here in Europe and I drive a lot on dusty gravel so I try to stay on top of oil and air filter changes.
Thanks for all the great information. 👍
It's all a load of time wasting money wasting oil wasting crap. Just change it as per manufacturers recommendations. Oil tests are a joke too.
@@motleydude73 I have no idea what you mean, but the manufacturer doesn't know how I use my car.
@@PSA78 You use it the same as everybody else, which is giving the engine far less stress and abuse than the manufacturers give them when benchtesting them. Toyota run theirs for 144 hours straight at full revs. If they say change your oil every 10,000 miles or 5000 under 'severe' conditions you won't have any problems.
@@motleydude73 That's not how it works, they know very well that different conditions (even different regions in the world) require different service intervals. I used to run engine tests for an engine mfg.
@@PSA78 It doesn't matter just change it as per manufacturers recommendations it'll last decades and hundreds of thousands of miles, unless it's an inherently flawed design, like Hyundais and Kias. Just crap. I don't care about your 'credentials', real life experience says manufacturers OCIs are fine.
When I bought my new 2006 CR-V, Honda stated not to do the first oil change until at least 5000 miles because of additives used to break in the engine. I followed that advice. All I can say is the engine still runs fine after 17 years and 10 months.
yes I spoke with 3 seperate Honda service managers at 3 seperate dealerships and they all advised me against a first 1,000 mile oil change and I was willing to pay for it out of pocket so I did not do it.
Yeah this video proves absolutely nothing. Changing your oil at 500 miles is absurd bologna that this guy probably remembers from the 80s back when American motors were built like total junk.
Funny that you should say that. My dad purchased a brand new Rambler in 1962 for $1800. It came without a radio. Unbelievable. @@AMT4245
Same thing I heard when I took my wife's '06 Pilot in for its first service. I had about 3k on the odometer and they sent me home until 5k.
@@katazack bullshit. take it to a lube place like Take 5 or Jiffy then... Additives or whatever is NOT gonna prevent microscopics from floating in that oil from breaking in the cylinder walls. That's where most of the metallics are coming from.
Thank you, Lake! You are so kind to share your knowledge with us. We just bought a 2024 Toyota Camry LE, and thanks to you, we changed oil and filter at 480 miles.
Glad to help!
Nice vehicle!
Looking forward to the video explaining the difference between friction and wear!
In the meantime, check this one out: Fact or Friction? Two Things You Probably DON'T Know About Wear.
ruclips.net/video/qsQYqTM93Nk/видео.html
Back in the pre synth days I always did first change between 500 & 1000 miles. Then changed every 2 months or 2000 miles. With synthetics I still do first between 500 & 1000 miles and then every 3 months or 3000 miles max. I’ve always kept my vehicles for high miles and never had engine problems. It’s served me well for 40 plus years. Like the old Fram commercial stated “ You can pay me now or pay me later”.
Right on!
Why every 3k miles when SYNTHETIC OIL doesn't even BEGIN to break down significantly at 5k miles???
Don't you think that's overkill?
@@michaeltammaro482 what breaks down oil is fuel that drips into crankcase after every shut down which is why short trips are killer. Plus if I’m traveling and go over 3K I know I’m still protected. Also heat cycles and ambient temps cause moisture which also gets into oil. This I learned from an oil engineer. But overkill has helped me achieve very high mileage out of my engines with no failures or any problems
It's nuts to change synthetic every few months! I knew a tow truck operator decades ago who only changed the filter & topped up the oil with another near quart every 3-5000 miles. He was approaching 400,000 miles on the truck.
@@pablobruise1388 maybe to you it is. But knowing combustion and dilution and physically seeing what it does to oil and engines I’ll continue my ways. Been a mechanic for 40 plus years so I’m good with my decisions
I got a 23 IS500 this March, I changed the oil myself at about 600 miles and then again at 1500. I tested it both times, and the first change had tons of contamination, the second had way less, I plan on doing it again at 2500 and then every 5000 after that. After seeing the oil after the first change it's so critical to not wait imo
You are smart. You should change the oil by 1,000 miles to get all the crap out of the new engine. If you have a differential in any vehicle, ie, truck, AWD, etc you should change the fluid the first time at 5,000, also allowing the initial metal to be removed.
@bluesky-ud9wg ya I have the vehicle parked for winter already but I'm planning on doing the tranny fluid and LSD sometime next summer. The way toyota doss their oil filters is both a blessing and a curse. It shows everything that the filter catches and scares the crap out of you but since buying toyota's I realize the importance of the first few oil changes. Once they are broken in there's nothing in there but the first oil change is shocking.
Thanks for sharing!
@@bluesky-ud9wg Absolute rubbish. Just service it as per manufacturers recommendations.
@@85CEKR As I keep telling you morons, there is no 'break in' period on new cars, drive it hard from day 1 and change oil at 5k or 10k as per Toyotas recommendations. Just wasting good oil and money otherwise.
I love how science crosses over to different applications. I'm an HVAC mechanic. I work on large semi-hermetic compressors. When we replace a compressor or rebuild a compressor, we replace the oil and canister filter after the first 40 hours of use. To those who say that is excessive the proof is in the pudding. I have compressors in the field that are still kicking 30 years later.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing!
I agree with the first oil change early I usually go 1000 miles when I first do the first oil change . Thanks for the video great job Lake Speed Jr.
Thanks!
Lake, I also run a magnetic drain plug in my cast iron block and I'm surprised by the quantity of magnetic particles this drain plug collects. The particles aren't troubling or particularly large but more like a fine size which feels like grease.
I intend on doing this same thing on a couple other of our family vehicles.
It would be quite interesting to know what others are finding on their magnetic drain plugs.
Great question. It would be interesting to see the range of what these drain plugs look like.
A friend of mine had an AMC Pacer that he purchased new years ago when they first came out. He drove that to just over 100,000 miles …..and never changed the oil. As the car would use oil, which it did, he would just add more. He hated that car and never picked up a wrench in his life. He wouldn’t spend the money on an oil change.
@@Notfiveo0 That's impressive the vehicle actually made it to 100k miles. I can't count how many vehicles I've seen which wiped out the bottom end when sludge had clogged the drainback holes in the heads and the oil was trapped up top under the valve covers.
Another common failue occurs when gallery passages are clogged with debris, leading to portions of the engine being starved.
I just tested a few days ago, my 455 Oldsmobile (clean as a whistle, internally) to see how quickly sae 30 would drain back to the oil pan through the lifter valley (I wanted to wet the camshaft prior to a cold start) and was surprised I was able to fill the entire valve cover while quickly as possible pouring the oil in through the valve cover vent. My chevy, ford and buick all pass this test without incident.
I attach a magnet from old speaker on oil filter, all particles are on old filter & discarded.put magnet on new filter, repeat. Don't have to clean drain plug as much
@@rogerdodrill4733 The issue isn't cleaning the drain plug, that's easy to wipe using a clean rag. Cutting the filter open every oil change to monitor for swarf seems more difficult?
From an engineer... Higher level wear during the first few thousand miles is normal and is completely expected as all the components are getting broken in so very fine particles from newly machined surfaces are created. Like he said changing your oil early is good so you get these particles out of the system.
When should you do the first drain and fill on the automatic transmission?
❤ it! Going to do the same with my next car. I use synthetic oil, extended life filters and 5000 Mile oil changes which I do myself.
Sounds great!
You should be able to go for a long time with this strategy. Doing it yourself means it will be done properly.
But right below that it states "However, it must be replaced with SAE 0W-8 at the next oil change". If for some reason you have an engine issue, will they warranty the motor if you continue to use 0W-16?
Probably not. Toyota (any car company, actually) will use that info to deny a claim.
A lot of new cars call for 0w16 or 0w20 motor oil. There are a lot of people out there who are vehemently against using oil that thin and opt for 5w30. I’d love to see a video from you if there is a significant difference between the two for an average driver.
Engine masters, did an episode on their show, about oil weight. Going too thick can cause damage to an engine. They showed an extreme, but put 90 weight, I think, in an engine with tight tolerances, and it starved the bearings.
Going up a weight won’t hurt a thing. Older Toyotas used to spec 5w-20 to 20w-50. A Corolla I had showed that in the manual. Buy a vehicle outside the US and they spec different oils.
I was watching some Jeep 3.6L episodes on rocker arm issues. One thing I noticed is Jeep calls for 0W20 and almost every one was putting 5W30 or 10W30 in their engines. Could be coincidence. But makes you think that there’s something to what the engineers call for.
You're asking for trouble going against the recommend! The OEM's know best. Whatever the manual says THAT'S what you wanna be using don't be STUPID!
@@garyszewc3339 If OEM calls for 5w20 like in my 2010 Accord but live in mild winters never under 30 degrees/highs around 50-60 degrees...and always hot in the summer from 90-110 degrees, then changing to 5w30 for those 5 months of super hot weather and back down to 5w20 for the mild winters shouldn't be that bad?
Glad I saw this video before buying a new Toyota. Now I’m planning to change the oil at 500, 5000 and 10000 miles. What about the gearbox oil?
So much misinformation out there. This was super helpful to add to my case. I just got a new car and every single person told me I didn't need to change the oil but in my case the manufacturer gave a specific mileage where they consider break in to be done. I will be changing the oil right at that point. Science is a hell of a thing! Great video!
Thanks! I'm glad it helped!
1000 miles is probably a good starting point
@@Playingwithproxies Nissan lists 1200 for my particular model.
Yeah I always changed my first at 500 and added a neodymium (large) magnet to the oil filter. Your daughter is lucky to have a mad scientist as a father! 😀
Thanks!
What is a neodymium magnet and where do I put this? Thank you!
@@JesusIsLord7773 Not sure if this is what he's talking about, but I've been using a FilterMag magnet that wraps around the filter. I cut open a filter after about 5k miles and found a black soot on the inside of the filter where the FilterMag was mounted. It seemed to be very fine particles that had clearly flowed through the filter element.
Harbor Freight $1
Where is the best place to place the magnet?. Thanks JohnB
I agree with you however I let my engine go to about 3000 on the first oil change from now after that I jumped straight into mobil 1 5-30 Full synthetic for my 2013 Subaru legacy with the flat six, after the first oil change I did it every 5000 miles now I have 140,000 on my car she barely burn any oil I just recently jumped to Pennzoil ultra platinum, The other thing I do when I first start the car up I drive it very normally at lower p.m. until I get some oil temp and coolant temp…. before beating on the car…
*_I know in this video You said to only use OEM engine oil, but on another blog I saw some guy said that not to use oem oil because it's just repackaged oil. That's somewhere on the back it says what company that made the engine oil. I was curious if they add more additives in the OEM engine oil than their own oil?_*
Totally agree. My Range Rover Velar first service recommended is 2 years or 21000 miles which is ridiculous. After the first oil change at 500 miles I now change the oil at 10000 miles.
It's not 'ridiculous', it's specified after benchtesting the engine and oils for optimum performance and longevity. Good synthetics last a very long time these days. It's shocking some people dump it out after 2000 miles. Honestly, all these home 'mechanics' who think they know better than the engine builders 🤣 I've only ever done manufacturers OCIs never a problem. Why would there be?
That’s why the break down a lot!
@@chriscarbaugh3936 Mostly from electrical issues. Nothing wrong with that OCI.
There's a channel here of RUclips, Garage Gear. He showed this with a brand new lawnmower by running it 10 or 15 minutes then changing the brand new oil out. You should see the metal in the oil!!
I also learned this in 2019 when I changed the transfer case, and both diff fluids in my 2019 Ranger with about 5000 miles on it. They all drained out looking like grey milk, with the magnetized drain plugs with so much metal on them they weren't catching metal anymore.
Thanks for sharing!
Yeah ... especially with OPE - Outdoor Power Equipment ... the first oil change comes out looking like silver soup.
@@seanthompson8071 read in my comment above about my transfer case and both diffs in my Ranger? I was shocked!!
@@TheBeatenPaths Funny. At Toyota we don't do the diff oil until 60,000kms. It always comes out looking like... pink diff oil! Grey suggests water is getting in. 5000 miles? I call BS.
Great video. Always did the same thing regarding initial oil changes. I've been turning wrenches since the early '70s. Never paid anybody to change my oil!
My Toyota filters come with the gasket pre-lubed and also covered to keep crap out of the filter. Nice touch.
Hey, I've got the same oil change pan!
Awesome! Thanks for sharing your experience.
Same here, the thought of someone else changing my oil horrifies me. Toyota filters and Mobil 1 every 6 months or 4,000 miles for me. Oil is cheap and engines are not!
I don't trust anybody to change my oil and I'm an old man
Me too.@@timferguson8654
Just bought my second Chevy impala, except this one's about 20 years younger, and about 200,000 mi less usage on it, seems to be a great car, watch this video before I change my engine oil. Thank you for the advice.
I have always had new cars. And I always closely observed the break in procedures. And I'd change the oil and filters at about 1,000 miles. Switched over to Amsoil and do 7500-10K(for the 10.5 quart sys) changes. On one car, due to past valve drop issues, I sent samples to Blackstone Labs. The results are stellar. I did this for several changes. No titanium at all in the oil sample, along with any other wearable metals. And both my engines rarely need oil additions between changes. I've alway felt that doing this with a proper break in will greatly reduce the chance of having a 'problem child' for the rest of the car's life. Glad to see this video reinforces my original idea.
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Lake for another informative and educational video.
Thanks for breaking down the analysis on both oils. Some very cool chemistry. 😎
My pleasure!
Just bought a brand new Tundra HV. I always change the oil at early and frequent intervals within the first 5k of life. First one at 500 miles, second one at 2000 miles, and then again at 5000 miles. Will always change at 5000 miles from there on. This is how I've treated every new vehicle I've gotten.
- Toyota MDT
Right On!
What if I don't....nothing happens. Brilliant.
Can I ask about new 2024 Honda engines? There are rumors online that Honda has advised against early changing of the initial factory oil in the past but I can’t seem to find any information from Honda directly on the topic. Thank you and great video!
We are not seeing anything special or different from the samples of 2024 Honda engines.
Wow, hard-core Lake. Dumping a quart of new oil as a flush oil. Been changing my own oil for decades, never done that, even on a new car. But, I get it. Also, Honda not the same as back in 90's, now they recommend a full Maintenance Minder interval on factory oil. Supposedly, factory oil something special. Others say, it's just the moly assembly lube used from factory. Never followed OM recommendation. Lastly, there's a school of thought that says, don't prefill filter because new oil has many impurities that will make their way to the bearings on first start. I never bought the idea, and always prefill filter where practicable. If your daughter's car gets maintenance like this regularly, I'm sure the engine will last a long time. Thanks for interesting and informative vid.
I’m happy to help. In my nearly 30 years of experience doing this, oil in quart bottles is very clean. It is filtered before it is bottled.
I’m happy to help. In my nearly 30 years of experience doing this, oil in quart bottles is very clean. It is filtered before it is bottled.
@@themotoroilgeek Good to know, counters that new oil idea. Like I said, I never bought it, prefilling been SOP for me. I mostly use oil from 5qt. jugs now but I doubt any different than quarts. Thanks for the reply.
This certainly won’t hurt anything, but is way overkill. The small amount of wear metals and the very, very small size of them, means they add basically nothing to bearing wear or other wear in the engine. The main issue with new engines is excess sealant as mentioned or any debris left in the engine during manufacturing. I change at 2,500 to get most of the initial break-in wear materials out and any manufacturing debris the escaped the filter. I then change at 5,000 and every 5,000 thereafter with a turbocharged engine. With a normally aspirated engine, I have no problem running synthetic oil for as much as 10,000 miles, but with a turbo I feel better at 5,000 given the heat generated by the turbo.
You're wrong
@@carstuff4u942 Nope, lots of evidence on my side. There is zero evidence to support multiple early oil changes in a modern engine. You probably also believe it is bad to fill oil filters before installing them as the new oil might be “dirty” and go through the engine once without first being filtered.
This is the only sane comment in this whole thread. Okay, you see results in doing the early oil change. Big whoop.... when have you actually heard of a car dying because you followed the factory interval? Be honest, the answer is *never.* There will be a myriad of other reasons why the car dies before even a little bit of extra break in metalicity on the first 10,000km even matters.
Your entitled to your opinion however you are incorrect. Regardless of opinions more material in the oil cycling through the engine causes more wear point blank. Don't hate me hate science. His next video on this topic proves your opinion is just that. An opinion.
No disrespect. Just science dosn't care about your feelings or thoughts 🤷♀️
@@mattdagger1480Well, I won’t go into my credentials here, but let’s say I am not ill-informed on matters of science and engineering. His next video discusses prefilling oil filters. Tell me how that invalidates anything I wrote here.
Important consideration I thought of: if you're using a filter type that catches a lot of particles (based on other tests I've seen, sometimes at the cost of some flow, Purolator Boss, Royal Purple for example) your oil will appear cleaner. That would really muddy the results, so we're really testing the oil, engine, and filter as a system because we can't remove the filter from the equation.
Lubrication is always a system that involves more than the lubricant itself. Proper lubrication can be defined as the right oil, in the right place, at the right time and in the right amount.
@@themotoroilgeek Right!
Every New Vehicle I Have / Had I've Changed Oil At 500 Miles. Then Again At 1000 - 1500 Miles. Call Me Crazy But I've Gotten Over 250,000 Out Of Each Of The 2 Ford Explorers I Had. Now I Have A Toyota Highlander. I Think I'm Good For A While. As Far As Your Video. SOLID ADVICE!
Should keep driving Explorer AWD SUVs. They are excellent esp w/ award winning gen2 -2.3L GTDI engine. Love our '24 Explorer AWD Timberline. Heavily updated '25 version out late this summer. Same proven engines. 💯
@@Davido50your vehicle is spying on you. The data transfer back to ford would boggle your mind
10k mile oil change interval so customers can keep buying new cars every 100k miles 😆 🤣 😂 😬.
LOL!
A lot of manufacturers in Europe are now specifying over 20,000 miles. That concerns me. Austin Rover were specifying 12,000 miles or 1 year back in 1980 on the Austin Metro, a vehicle with the old BMC A-Series and a gearbox inside the engine oil sump and sharing the engine oil. It's utter madness here, and has been for some time!
@@cameronwood1994 Agreed!
They last far longer than that. 200, 300,000. 400,000 miles all going by manufacturers recommendations. See them every day. Mines done 170,000 miles 14 years old, only ever had 10k mile changes from new it's perfectly fine. PCV is clean as whistle.
@@motleydude73 are you a mechanic?
Solid advice and good facts to back it up. Have always done and will probably continue to do the first change at or before 1000 miles. Probably going to be a sourcing issue going forward, but I have only bought manual transmission cars where it is a bit easier IMO to baby the engine a bit during the break-in period. Automatic or CVT would probably be a bit harder to keep the revs in check = 500 miles is good.
CVT is the only option now on Corollas
It's not 1980 anymore you don't need to break it in. Just drive it hard from new it's fine. First change at 10k.
@@motleydude73 doesn't matter what year it is. A new engine can have material left over from the machining and assembling process. You don't want to leave any material in the engine for 10K, I'd be changing the way before 10K anyway.
@@chrish4469 Doesn't need it. 10k is fine. As per manufacturers recommendations. 32 years in the trade I've yet see an engine fail with that service interval.Mines only ever had 10k changes runs smooth as silk with 155000 miles. But go ahead and waste good oil and spend money unneccessarily.
@@motleydude73 10K oil changes are fine if you are doing a lot of highway driving, But doing a lot of stop and start city driving is adverse conditions, It say in the owner's manual with adverse conditions drop the oil interval changes. If you are only keeping the car for five years or so, 10K intervals are ok, But if you are keeping the car until the wheels fall off, It's advised to change every 5K. Engines will last longer 300K+. Oil is cheap, Engines are not
It would be interesting to see what your single quart flush is like after flowing through your engine. Send that off to the lab next time and see how much you’re really getting! Awesome vid.
Great suggestion!
I would guess the 1 quart would drop straight through to the pan and slightly flush the pan. If the engine was shut off and immediately drained one would think there would be very little on the pan floor.
Probably not a whole lot as it bypassed about 95% of the oil circulation system lol
Hes wasting oil for no scientific reason.
I'm just a shade tree mechanic, and he's spot on with what he's saying. I've been changing oil like this for the last 40 years.
Awesome content!! Would love to see some experiments done with gas additives as well since so many experts agree that lubing crankcase alone isn't enough but when gas delivery system gets lubed constantly via gasoline additives (upper cylinder lubricants), then the wear and tear gets further reduced by some 50% and thus set your engine in for a million miles mark while still going strong (saw a few cases with my own eyes). Liked and subscribed.
Thanks! We will make some videos about gasoline additives.
I pretty much have to run the Lucas fuel additive / fuel lubricant on my 1991 Nissan Maxima.
Not sure if it's because of the terrible factory injectors, or if fuel is just that inconsistent here in Mexico.
If I go 2 to 3 fuel tanks without it, the engine starts to missfire and runs poorly even on premium fuel.
I just keep a 1l bottle of the fuel additive in my car. What is $12 every 8 to 10 months 1L for fuel additive if it keeps my car running good.
It's the fuel in Mexico. Good job on finding something that works and sticking to it. @@Brandon-uy1uv
I have heard people recommend putting a (very) small amount of ATF or 2-stroke oil in the gas as a "top lube." Not 32:1 or anything; more like 300:1 (a few fl. oz. per fill-up).
I have no idea if that works, or if it's just an Old Mechanic's Tale. I do know truckers running older rigs use ATF to make up for the lower lubricity of ULSD, but they don't have cats. I do run what's left of my 2-stroke lawn gas at the end of the growing season, but that's more about me being cheap than expecting "gains" out of it.
@@JetSkiSuper7
1. 2 stroke oil is designed to be burned without ash residue.
2. ATF has a lower number of additives to foul a cat than motor oil.
3. 300:1 means about a quart of ATF or 2-stroke every 2100 miles or so. Which is less than many cars burn. (Cars with tow-tension rings can burn up to 1qt/1000 miles before it is considered "abnormal" enough to require warranty work.)
4. I probably wouldn't do this in anything new enough to monitor cat efficiency and set a code.
5. Probably not EPA legal...but if you aren't breaking the occasional law, are you really living life to the fullest?
These videos are spectacular absolutely love the content… there is a “small” group of people that love seeing this data and analysis and your knowledge and delivery is phenomenal.
Wow, thank you!
Lake, hello from the Sip. Is the Toyota oil using the newer Tri-Moly or the older form of Moly? Thinking that plays a role in which base is used or needed. Much obliged.
@@dr.john-markcain4946 I can’t tell right now. However, most of the newer API SP additive packages have gone with the newer Moly additives because they offer better solubility and performance.
Of all of the videos that I have seen mechanics pouring oil from the quart bottle into the engine, you are the first one to pour the oil correctly. It would be good to point out which side of the bottle should be up so the oil doesn't spill all over the place. Thank you for all of the great information that you pass along to us.
At 11:00
Thanks!
Yes I noticed this too!! Wow this is like my 5th comment in this vid. Lots of experience and knowledge being shared with this video. Good to see and know that "old school" gear head knowledge being preserved and passed on to alleviate the symptoms of this dealer-centric era of planned obsolescence and consumerism.
Or just use a damn funnel 🙄
My first oil change was done at 500 miles. Was taught this was the correct thing to do for many years, and I change my oil about every 4000 miles based upon time before miles.
Thanks mate a video well worth watching! This need’s a wide audience! The break in oil and even extended intervals that manufacturers are pushing for Isn’t necessarily the optimum! It’s something I’ve tried to explain but struggled to get my point across but you explain so clearly! I’d often just give up and tell them that their engine lasting longer doesn’t make me money! Btw I had a lot of fun in one of those Honda’s!
Glad it helped
Thanks Lake Speed jr.
you’re always sharing great info!
Yes, manufacturers’ agenda is not always the same as our needs.
Thank you sir!
It's fun to watch the oil debates. I am going to do this one worse. When I bought a new 2000 Tacoma, I was so confident in Mobil 1 at the time, that I decided to run 7500 mile oil changes. Toyota specs the Tacoma at 5000 miles with conventional oil. I didn't do anything special with the first oil change and ran aftermarket filters, like Fram and Puralator 1. It was my daily for 8 to 10 years, after that the oil changes were an annual event instead of a mileage event. After 23 years of ownership I sold the Toyota because the frame was starting to look suspect from rust. Anyway, with 196K on the truck, the motor seemed the same as when I purchased it. The engine didn't consume any more oil than any other time that I owned it. I know there was wear, but it didn't seem consequential. If the frame wasn't rusting out, I am confident that truck would have gone 300k or more. My point is, how long are you going to keep your vehicle. Are you going to see 300k, 400k or more mileage from that vehicle? Or will the rest of the vehicle let you down, like mine did. Of course that motor is known for 300k. Funny thing is, it had some pretty bad wear numbers compared to other vehicles I have had. Only my first gen Mini Cooper was worse.
Good point. The method shown in this video seems wasteful to me. I did the first oil change in my '22 Camry at 4,400 miles under Toyota care, which I thought was a good compromise. The service advisors thought I was a fanatic for not waiting until 10k like it shows in the manual. And that is what most owners do, so most of the cars on the road never see an oil change for the first 7k to 10k. Either way, the engine is going to last well over 100k, and I'm not going to keep the car that long.
Great perspective. My 13 year old Honda Civic is very much in its early days mechanically but the clearcoat has all but disappeared on the trunk and some other areas. I've seen other Civics which look far worse. So it's fair to say that the body will probably need repairs before the engine/transmission does!
I did the same thing with my 2023 Chevy Colorado. First oil change at 3000 miles. I meant to do it earlier, but time got the better of me.
Every motorcycle we sold back including 80's and 90's, had to have a 500 mile service, then at 3000 mile intervals . . . I still have 80's bikes now which are on "untouched" - for rebuild or repair work- engines, which I never changed oils later than 1500miles on every interval, so that process has worked for me over about 45 years! Great content, please keep it coming!😎
I did my first Honda oil change at 10k. Iron was 29 (vs your 13), aluminum was 19 (vs your 13), and copper was 13 (vs your 40). So two out of three were worse, but not astronomically, and I’m not worried.
and realistically, the engine is going to outlast the rest of the car. Spending that much on changing the oil just doesnt make sense unless your an oil enthusiast and want to see whats going on with the wear.
Not huge numbers but you ran those numbers for 10k miles.
If oil is breaking your bank account you shouldn't have bought the car.
@@raving_1074 do you live in the rust belt perhaps? Here the engine and suspension would fail long before the body
So it didn't need an extra change.
God bless you for clarifying this!!!
Back in the days when Popular Mechanic magazine was around, even the engineers suggested you do the initial oil change at 250 miles THEN another one at 1000 miles.
I personally do the first oil change on my new cars at 500 miles myself, never waiting 3 or 5000k miles.
I'm happy to help. The good old days of Popular Mechanics!
at 0:36 "as her dad and a certified lubrication specialist" 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Yes, the first oil-change is very important! I usually do it at about 1,000 miles. Then at 5,000 miles. Then every 5,000 miles after that.
Great idea I have done for years on the first oil change at 1 k then change my filter only at 3k then do the regular oil change at every 5k with synthetic oil. On my vehicle and my company service van I have never had a single engine issue for those 7 service vehicles of which I always drive to 250k before getting
another. He’s right about the initial wear in the first 500-1000 miles so do like he says for a great long lasting vehicle!
Great info. Thank you!
Curious, it says on manual that 0w-16 can be use if you can’t find 0w-8 temporarily but on the next oil change, go back to 0w-8 (5:59 mark). Will you go back to the original oil or stick with 0w-16? Your findings did say the additives on both oils are identical.
Thank you again for the info.
my speculation on that would be that a thicker oil would be harder for the pump to circulate and and move around the engine. It would be mostly fine because the oil is within spec but probably there would be a slight drop on the fuel economy as the car is making a higher effort to move the oil around and probably some extra friction. I think it would be good to eventually move back to the original oil when possible to aid in the longevity of the oil pump and maybe when the car is at a higher mileage with more wear probably go back to the thicker oil to compensate for the wear.
@@Hartbreak1 If you look at subsequent UOA reports he was using much heavier oils like 10w-40. You need to freeze the video at just the right spots to see it. Just wondering why.... did I miss something?
FINALLY, I'M not alone!!! I use a quart of oil to flush out deposits before refilling
Yea it seems you're surrounded by paranoid whackjobs wasting perfectly good oil 🤦🤣
Thanks for the awesome info! First I've heard of 0w 8 oil. Curious to learn more about this stuff. Interesting to see that Toyota oil continues to have crazy high Molybdenum in even the newest oil. The closest off the shelf oil I can find is Valvoline advanced high milage at around half the Moly and Boron of the Toyota oil (350 moly and 150 Boron) But that still puts those numbers about 3x higher than other off the shelf stuff.
I have a toyota V6 with 190K miles on it and I've used Pennzoil Ultra platinum in it for the last 20K but the moly number in that is under 100 and this makes me think Toyota really loves Moly in their engines? I think I may switch to toyota oil on the next change.
This is very interesting oil!
Use Castrol
Older BMW M cars require an oil change at 1000km, then 5000km (if I recall correctly). They also require fairly light usage in that first 1000km and varying RPM (no cruise control for long drives), then the threshold goes up until you hit 5000km. After that point you’re free to give full gas and go to red line.
Absolutely fascinating! My next new car will receive the same treatment. Thanks very much!
These are great videos. It’s nice to hear from someone with real credentials. Now I’d like to hear your theory on what was happening to all the cams wiping out so often in the late 70s and early 80s. New cars and aftermarket cams. Was it the oil or the materials that changed then? Thanks!
I change engine oil and filter at before about 400 miles. Then conventional oil till about 2000. Then full synthetic and new filter there on out. Never more than 5K on oil and filter. Labs are good and could go to 7500.
I also run filtermags, and do differentials at 10K or 1 year first change. Trans, same thing.
Right on!
That conventional oil for 2k after dumping the factory fill is a cool idea! Get the rest of the break in cycle done with conventional so the rings get a chance to continue seating in and such
Ok, how come some new cars come with like Mobil 1 in them?
it iz ALL about the $$$... my '16 lexus nx200t came w/m1... changed 2 AMSOIL & could tell difference b4 going 1 block, now i also get GREAT gas milage... 😁