In the 80s, we thought the manufacturers were going to kill the V8. Now, a smallish displacement V8 can hit 1,000hp with off the shelf parts relatively easily! It's a good time for engine performance!
I've ran in the low 140s in the 1/4 with a very simple 2v. Stock heads with PAC springs, stock cams, stock block, cast crank, coyote rods and a 18cc dish crap pistons. Homemade turbo kit using stock manifolds with an 83mm turbine s475. Never had it on the dyno, but that engine took 20+ psi for years lol.
I'm curious what you might recommend for my situation. I have a '98 Cobra 4V that will go in my '46 Ford coupe. Want a streetable 500 NA HP on pump gas, nitrous is not out of the question.
Great content. Love the fact that you actually compare similar displacement engine rather than the days of old when everybody would compare a 5 L Ford to a 5.7 L small block Chevy.
They were very short lived. Folks figured out that the gm small block was a windsor 351 clone fast and.... Now ford has a new push rod and gm will copy it too.
He needs more likes with the knowledge you gain from this info. I'm a Chevy guy but I did like driving my dad's 5.0 lx mustang and reving to 7k alot. I like them both . Keep up the great work!
I'd love to see a maximum effort 4.8L naturally aspirated build, they have really low compression like 9:1 compression ratio or something like that so maybe being able to bump it's compression ratio up to like 12:1 and a big honking cam would be interesting since modern engines have really high compressions like 11:1 and such
Yeaa! Ty richard for the 2v content and maybe for the next bigbang maxed out 4.6 vs 4.8 ! And for the 4.6 2v maxed out all out race setup we could ask to a guy like @Todd warren to make you a special all out custom grind for those modular! Rev it to the moon !
Is she still kickin? I put a turbo on my 2v and it lasted one summer. Pulling it apart now to add rods n pistons BUT still considering a swap or somethin. Hard to decide which way to go.
@@umakemerandy3669 oh yeah. It’s a “built” engine. Forged rods,pistons and crank. Since this comment I’ve actually put a precision 88mm turbo on it and a whole bunch of other stuff. 🤦🏻♂️ kind of snowballed lol
Great stuff as always. I would be interested in "daily driiver" build where you tried to maximize HP under the curve, spool/responsiveness, low end driveablity. Say a turbo 5.3 set to make 600HP on pump gas.
You do some really interesting work on all this. I love the comparisons! I would love to see exhaust valve size increase on 4 valve per cylinder engines and their effect on torque/hp.
I have a decent 4.6 2v combo 10.5:1 static compression Unported TFS 185 heads 242/242 115lsa turbo cams Unported edelbrock Vic JR. Intake and plenum Forced inductions s491 91/102 turbo Has been 141mph to the 1/8 mile at 3120lbs on 36psi and 12 degrees of timing on e85 Internet math says about 1360 fwhp It would be faster with a ported 4v head but I prefer the simplicity of the 2v compared to the 4v
@@richardholdener1727 no SBE stuff. I have flirted with the idea of a sbe with tfs heads, milder cams for less rpm and a smaller turbo. I think I could get one to live in the 600 hp range.
Fun fact, in SOHC format most guys (who I have met) who have owned both say the 4.6l f150 was better for towing than the 5.4l likely due to the fact that the heads were sized for the 4.6l and then just slapped on the 5.4l with everything else about the same and choked it out.
We rebuilt almost the same 2v you did (in the PI,274s,npi bottom vid) when my buddies 98 GT spun a rod bearing. It was chassis dyno'd w/ friend ported heads, .550 lift xe274s, vic jr, and you beat his numbers with 20% 5sp and acc loss. Now it's 4r70w and T-trim time.
@@richardholdener1727 Kind of, they were just ported by a friend. He's def no TEA. It was also like 105* when we dyno'd. It made 304whp I believe. Ill update with the T Trim, which is on the car, and again w/ the 4r70w which is layin next to the car.
Man keep these videos coming! Personally I love the sound of the 4.6 2v motors, but of course they leave you wanting more. I’d love to see you do a video on a 4.6 3v N/A.
The 2v does fine for a 281 cube motor from the 90s. It makes as much or more power than the old 302 h.o. and torque stock or modified and when it comes to modified forged internals vs forged internals the mod motors can make way more with stock block than the old 302. Idk why people think the 2v sucks it's just as good as the 302 in every way and for big power builds it can get there easier and cheaper than the 302.
My buddy should be hitting the chassis dyno soon in his Heads/Cam 2v. SBE Livernois Ported PI Heads with valve Springs (100lbs on seat/ 265lbs open at .560" lift) MHS Stage 2 Cams (224/226 .556"/.535" 111.5 LSA, 110 Intake Centerline) Summit Under Drive Pullies Stock PI Intake 73mm BBK Throttle Intake K&N Cold Air Intake BBK Longtubes Cat-Less X-Pipe Moroso mufflers Hoping for anything over 300whp with this setup. Shouldn't be too shabby for a mild 2v.
He is f/i ... nothing to compare .. just a forged block with a big turbo on it.. we want to see the magic ! Nothing is more satisfying then raw N/a combos numbers ! Ba motorsport is doing 9s pass with a n/a 4.6 ! That is alot more impressive! When you hit near to 500whp. On those modular 2v n/a ...thats alot more work and research then just an other guy using a turbo ...
@@cainadkins3985 yea but put that turbo now on the that 8000rpm 450whp n/a 2v ! Result will be exponential! 9sec with 450whp is lot nore impresive to me then 8sec with 1200whp🤷♂️🥸
As a grudge racer since 15. Own 7 3-5th Camaros 2 trans am 2 Corvettes. From old school 350 406 motors to Ls an Lt. I'm seeing alot of butt hurt Ford guys in the comments. 1st thank you Richard for being honest factual. On both sides of the Ford vs Chevy deal. 2nd I'm a Gm man through an through. But I've learned more bout the capability of Ford motors through this great RUclips channel. Saying that only a fool after being given honest factual tests. By Richard will still be so butt hurt to comment stupid shit . Couse of there dislikes tords Gm ls. Look guys it's facts. Last a final Gm was is an always be the king of small blocks. If Gm wanted to copy ford we would have been switched to the over head cam motors. But we stayed true to push rod motors a very old technology. That still a over 20 plus year Ls motors are still gapping the F out of anything Ford dodge are putting out there in 2020. But thanks Richard keep the unbyest factual videos coming. Gm ls lt FTW.
i think a revisit to the mods would be nice and bring a 4.8 ls along. those older test were done when they cam selection wasn’t great for the mods and the mods motors in your test are still using oem intake manifolds where the ls is using a good aftermarket one. the aftermarket has grown for the mod making it easier to make more hp. keep up the great testing.
Horsepower is great and all but when it comes to racing I'd rather have an 8 second 800 hp car than a 8 second 1000 hp car. Power production is one thing vs speed. I'd like to see comparisons of equal hp engines put into the same chasis to see which one is faster. Good video man.
I love these ignorant clowns thinking the LS is capable of that. There's also the world record standing mile ford GT with a factory block and heads making over 3,000 hp and 300.4 in the mile in 21 seconds. No LS even billet is close. 263 for the comparison lol. LameShit LS
Unless you put the 4.8 or 5.3 on a light vehicle, a stock 2v will still take them, my 4k lbs P71 sure has.. Don't really care for ls swaps on Fords bcuz of that reason..lol 2v FTMFW!!
This definitely makes me wanna dyno my setup, I have a 4.6 2v with comp cams XE270AH (stage 3) with about 10.2:1 compression pistons, ported PI heads, high airflow aluminum intake and valve springs. Hopefully with the right tune it could kiss the 400whp mark.
I want to see a big bang 97 cobra engine. Stock rods/pistons teksid block. Stock b heads. Cams and boost. That's it. Plenty of mark viii in the wrecking yards.
The ls probably has stronger rods stock, but the mod motors can belt out a LOT of power if built right. Pretty sure the 4.8 benefits from its smaller bore by sealing better on top of its r/s ratio makes for an optimal junkyard setup.
Got a built 2v. Ported tfs heads Custom cams Cobra crank Making over 700 with more to go. Going for over a 1000 with bigger turbo. Only a 7675 at the moment. These little 2vs have come along way. Like says belong Andrew lavender is one badass 2v
With tfs heads especially ported ones they can make real good power with some good cams. The 2v is legit for what it is not sure why it gets so much flack especially considering how easily found they are and low priced.
Trans upgrades will make it a lot more fun. Do the J Mod and a high stall convertor ( like 3600 rpm and up with a lockup ). You'll be shocked at how it runs.
10.5:1 compression on a 4.6 4v with ported C heads ,long tubes , c head cobra intake with SH stage 2 cams makes 500 flywheel hp. That 8 compression ratio robbed the motor nearly 20 hp
You have no idea. Just like the old windsor days. Gm is copying things to stay relevant. Trying to hold onto that Windsor LS clone. Now they have to try and copy the new 351 before anyone notices this time.
@@brandona4618 I thought the 4.6’s and the 5.4’s were limited to 400rwhp I have no idea the potential of the four valve. I know that they could only make power with a power adder n/a was not very impressive.
@@cesar101387 yeah but don't get a fleet vehicle engine unless you're adding forged internals, i wanted the 5.1L stroker kit for my 2v but that company stop existing so now gotta find it a diff way, sucks for me.. :(
I am quite aware this is one of Richard's older posts. However, Andrew Lavender (who if you are a 4.6 2v person probably know) got a turbo charged 2v (with a 3v block) into the 7s in the quarter. Even though the 67 and 68 Mustang are the best-looking Mustangs of all time (in my opinion), I think the New Edge (like my 2001 GT) come in second.
Any true big bang on E85 is all win Richard, as long as you have enough turbo, enough fuel system, and enough MAP sensor to truly max them out. With those items in place, I will kick in bucks for every single one you want to do, and I bet LOTS of others on here will too. Who's with me?!?! $5 each probably covers Richard's normal costs for a junkyard big bang experiment at 1000-2000 contributors... Or fewer contributors if we do $10 each, obviously.
@@HioSSilver1999 just mad a little 4.6 made more and you were wrong. Go take your slow ls junkyard motor and kick rocks! Watch the coyote vs the 5.3 and they have to do so much work to the 5.3 to make it even close. Lmao. They do have coyotes and predator motors so not max tha6s a old 4.6 and your mad it's okay. Go hug your boyfriend. 😄 And it's less cubic inches. Bounce!
@@kyleaversa173 4hp....vs a truck motor.......lmao. That hurt you didn't it. Look at the 5.3 vs 5.4 . There's way more than a 4hp difference when the 5.3 stomped day ass. I bet your na modular is a turd just like the rest of them boi.
I have a 2 valve running an mmr 5.0 stroker kit 10/1compression ported Tfs heads ported edelbrock victor jr and custom grinds it costed over 20k the way I built it a lot of people say it was dumb I could have built a sickass ls but the bright side is there’s very few 2valves built the way mines is
Ok in your opinion the 4.6 4v was ran with 57 mm turbos and the 4.8 had 76 mm turbos whats the difference in the turbos and theyre power outputs and air flow because it sounds like the 4.6 had smaller turbos than the 4.8 but made slightly better gains
@@Matticus289 boost isn't really a comparable thing. Boost is a measure of restriction. These being 2 completely different combos with completely different turbo setups will yield a difference in volume of air flow at the same boost levels.
@@kylebryant2379 Air pressure = air pressure = air pressure. So, yes, boost is a comparable thing. Especially since heat exchangers were used....so temp with the smaller turbos is not a thing. The 76's have the capability to push more air...but that wasn't the objective here. These weren't max effort builds. And if these were single turbo setups...they the size might would matter much more. But for a non-max effort TT comparison...the size doesn't really come into play here.
@@BEBNC1 literally the most ignorant comment I've ever seen. Kyle was spot on with his comment. Take for instance the exact same car. In this case we'll use a srt4 neon as reference. With its small factory turbo it can make ~20 lbs of boost and would produce ~350 whp. Swap that stock turbo with a 6265 (with supporting mods) and at the same boost level that same car is now making 600+. Why? Because that larger turbo is able to flow more volume at the exact same boost level. Also think of it like a hose. If you push 10 psi through a very small hose, you're not really moving much air. However you blow 10 psi through a 2" hose and now you're moving a whole lot of air!
@@kylebryant2379 Depends on the context. In this context, it is. The point was to compare the response of two rather different motors (ford vs a chevy, 4v vs 2v, etc) of similar displacement with the same boost. So, in this context, boost is most definitely a comparable thing
Thank you Richard You the " MAN " !! Honest, legitimate testing & results. Amazing bone stock LS & Vortec heads flow in big block territory on simple single cam & only 2 valves. Nobody got time for 4 cams 32 valve over price over complicated engines unless your talking Lexus - Toyota..hint hint Lexus UZFE big bang please !!!
Sweet comparisons bro 😎 but I still feel Chevy always has to have bigger liters to beat Ford 5.0 and 4.6’s lol I mean a 4.8 is still bigger? Lol and the camaro had even bigger then that displacement engines? So we should have Gm make a 4.6 liter and Ford to make bigger engines to compete with and see what’s what ? I’m sure they both will have winning engines against one another this way? What do u think? I also thinks it’s amazing Ford did this suggestion with the new Godzilla 7.3 liter and I’m excited to see what it will do!!! Thx for the great comparison vids man!!!!
@@HioSSilver1999 its crazy you say that.... sounds like a direct copy.. caugh ls engines 🤣 beat it fella nobody cares how cheap you can go..... louis cheverolet definitely knew they were built on bullshit
Got a fuel/boost only 2v myself. Haven’t had it on a dyno yet but at 7 psi it pulls harder than anything else ive driven. Curious if mine would be there.
Ive always liked the bmw v8, like the 4.4L from the late 90s, could you please do a video of one of those motors with a turbo or 2. They are supposed to be pretty stout. Ive had a couple of them and they are very torquey. Love your vids. Keep up the fun!
Well it should be super easy to find a mark Vii lsc in a junkyard and lots of people will argue its a better engine/block combo then the cobra minus the 03/04 cobras forged internals of course. I know with forged internals the teksid block will hold stupid power numbers but the early modular engines are known for weak rods but i would love to see a big bang on an lsc
My 2v made 630rwhp with TFS heads, cams, Novi 2000 SC, built motor, at 17psi. Not super powerful but she was fun. Much more fun with a turbo, even at 100hp less with current turbo kit.
Please test stock bottom end 46 4 valve mother. One is a 1997 Lincoln. the other is 2003 Lincoln Ls. I really like these moters. thanks for all the content. happy New Year's.
Should ask to ba motorsports and todd warren for some magic combos on the 4.6 2v! Ba motorsports got some videos of 9s pass with a 4.6 2v n/a reving 8000rpm with some high cr Svo heads/svo intake that could compare to a max ported pi heads and bullitt intake combo.. with all the supporting valvetrain
Torn between gapping the rings and turbocharging blow thru/E85 on my VERY low mileage LE9 carb truck high output 305 sitting on the stand awaiting to go into a minty 95 S10 project OR going forth with a 4.8 and a hair dryer. It's coming to dollars and cents. Salvage yards around here have gotten hip to their worth. All said and done if I go that route I'm looking at $1,400 altogether and haven't even popped a valve cover off. OTOH, with the 305 I'll have about $350 total in it before boost and if it scatters then oh well!?! Not out to break 5's, just hit the streets and have a good time.
Would be good to see the boost comparison with the same turbos - 57mm vs 76mm is a large difference in CFM for the same boost pressure - the 4.6L 4V would make way more power with twin 76mm given back pressure isn’t an issue - thoughts? - great comparison though - I currently have a 2v big bore stroker 323ci with twin 67mm
Always love your videos would like to see more 3 & 4-cylinder stuff and maybe when it comes out on the market a 3cyl koenigsegg free valve engine big bang that would be cool. But don't know if you have enough computing power in that building for it!!! Crazy shit...
@@MB-ib5ji lol at that point just buy the designs for the early 2000s short deck v10 from ford, and maybe the 4v head design they had for the triple 7 project (later became the 2v 6.2l) maybe even get the old koenigsegg 4.6l head designs too and make bank. Get the new 5.0l koenigsegg head designs too while you're at it because supposedly they'll "bolt right up" to the coyote/voodoo/predator blocks.
It’s a tuff one to figure which one makes the best gains. On one hand Chevy got that beautiful hp and tq curve that wins races and would eat Ford 4.6 na all day but then when boost is added the 4.6 benefits from the extra rpm even though the curves are not smooth through out. Also it had an air to water vs air to air in a stationary spot so might have better gains from the air to water on a dyno. In either case they are great good video man.
i beat a 5.3 swapped single cab Silverado with my stock 09 P71, 5.3 was open headers n intake, i just had a remote SCT 93 octane tune n heavy ass 17x12 widened steelies on 345/40r17" tires, dude had more torque off the line but he was def surprised he couldn't beat a stock Slow.6 2v..lol
@TigreLoko24 they aren't as superior as the ls fanboys wanna believe. In fact my experience is quite the opposite. The old 4v held its own against the larger gm stuff. Kind of like the coyote does now. Some things never change. They do really good all motor for their displacement but they shine with boost. 4v plus boost is a cheat code
Basically the stock bottom end of a 4.6L 4V has the same type of rods and pistons as the 2V with the pistons being closer to the NPI style then the PI in compression ratio but they are made with the same types of materials and although the 4V has a forged crank at hp levels under 1000 the factory 2V cast crank is more then enough so that with a good tune and ring gaps made for boost the stock bottom end of a 2V with a good tune should be able to withstand 650 hp levels reliably ? granted the big thing here is ring gap opened up because that whole dont go over 450 hp on a stock bottom end rule of thumb is with stock NA ring gaps never intended for boost. Which is why when you here people putting forged pistons and boss rods in 4.6l bottom end they say 750 hp is attainable ? I think it is mainly because when doing that they are setting ring gaps for boost and that in reality the boss rods which are also powdered pos stock rods are really not that much better then stock oem 2V rods they are just given a lot of hype because people are using them in modified configurations (forged pistons with ring gap set for boost)
Is there anyone out there running a 2V with stock bottom end and ring gaps for boost making 650 hp or so ? and this is where running on the street versus the dyno is a big factor because a dyno cannot reproduce the strain of lugging a horse trailer up a 5 mile hill under boost . as in take a lot of those dyno max hpo run engines and toss them in a car and see how long they last if not detuned a shit ton.
I’d love to see you do some vids on the 2003-2004 Terminator Cobra motor 4.6 4v especially versus say the 2007-2009 GT500 5.4 4v. And say also versus a C6 corvette Z06 motor.
@@richardholdener1727 will do. Forgot I should search that ahead of time before asking my question lol. Thanks for posting these videos by the way. They are very good, not biased, you are just here to see what performs the best.
I'd be interesting to see you put prices on each of the engine upgrades/modifications both Ford and GM and corresponding HP/TQ levels, what peoples responses would be. #nobrainer
It always comes down to cost. That is always ls guys arguments and the 4.8 prob does cost less than a 4v 4.6 theyre alot more common its to be expected but if you have a mustang there is alot involved in swapping an ls that wouldn't be necessary keeping the mod motor so that in and of itself offsets alot of the cost. Ls are great engines but I cannot stand them to be swapped into mustangs especially mustangs that had a badass engine to start with (like the 4v 4.6). No reason to swap anything. As far as the cost to do the mods the only thing that is going to be significantly higher is cams because there is 4 and not just 1. Outside of that cost isn't as far apart as what you'd think. The ls has been literally beat to death God I am so sick of them. I wouldn't swap one into my mustang if it was given to me. I'd find an s10 for it to go in.
I think the right question is how much torque can the engine take, the rews will not put that much strain on the engine as long as you stay in reasonable limits torque is probably the thing that kills the parts 🤔
The coyote smoked the 4.8 or 5.3 it took the 6 liter to Match or exceed the power output of the gen 1 coyote and it had full aftermarket heads cam intake where the gen 1 coyote had a boss manifold, ported stock heads and cams. This was a gen 1 coyote when they first came out he tested. It's pretty obvious the 5 liter owns especially when boost enters the equation lol. The old 4v was badass and the coyote is just a newer iteration of the same thing with more displacement, rpm, compression, headflow and tech. It is an animal.
I’ve always been curious as to what the true power limit is on a stock 4.6 2v bottom end is. Everyone always claims 400-500 RWHP, but that’s always boosted, and no one ever modified ring gap as far as I know of. I’m wondering if the issue is truly rod/piston failure, or if it wasn’t ring end gap butting together causing piston/rod failure. It would be interesting to see for sure what it truly is.
@@P71ScrewHead right, which would put it in the 450-550 RWHP range like I said, but around there is where everyone claims is the limit for the stock bottom end. I’m curious as to just how far it will go.
@@bigbruno84 well, he just replied n said over 700hp, i think its the drivetrain that may cause it to blow up once its in the car, seems understandable to me..
I've seen 500rwhp from stock SC'd PI 2v mustangs. Risky because the weak pistons and rods but impressive nonetheless. Been in a new (at the time) terminator Cobra with a blowzilla w/ 667 rwhp (again engine totally stock), owner blew the tranny at 11k then the engine at 16k. He never fixed it, sold the car as is with 16k miles (he was the owner of a mustang shop also). The power was literally tearing the car apart, the interior trim pieces were falling out of place, everything in and on it rattled and shook under acceleration. This is why I always modified the "big" cars instead (Mark 7, Mark 8, Thunderbird, Cougar).
I've never heard of people's terminators falling apart from 667 rwhp nor have I seen too many terminator engines going at that power level at that low of miles it sounds like your friend and/or his tuner didn't do the car any favors. They're pretty good cars and they can live easily past 800 wheel many have done it.
I'd really like to see a 4V head for the GM Gen III & IV motors and then do Ford/Chevy comparison. I think Merc made a 7L LS variant with 4V heads that made serious power NA. Maybe a set of those heads on a more common JY SBE motor and a comparison between similar displacement 2V motors.
Are you trying to see a simple yet crazy 2v combo with boost? Stock unported PI heads I have one that’s almost finished and we’re hoping to see 900whp+ on a mustang dyno
We had a '00 4.6 2v with stock internals, added an On3 76mm turbo with an air to air intercooler. At 8.5lbs in was dyno'ed at 408hp 403flbs torque at the rear wheels. Unfortunately threw rod #1 and rod #5 through opposite sides of the block. Guessing ring gap ended our fun :/
@@alberthunt8501 not a bad idea. Manly rods could prob get you to 600 wheel easily on stock cast crank.. the rods were the weakest link in the engine once those are upgraded the rest of the parts can take quite a bit more power.
The 2v can make power. It just takes a bit more boost. 1100 wheel hp is definitely doable. I have even seen 1000 hp on stock ported heads. It's definitely the harder way but it can compete. My little 2v isn't very impressive at mid 500 wheel hp but that's not the motors fault. That's because I need to build my trans before I add more boost
There is no comparison. The Ferd is a top heavy, noisy, needlessly complex, expensive and difficult, less durable engine. Can you make it make power? You can make a 1.6l engine make power if you spend enough. The question is why bother?
Guys have done it but by the time everything is paid for its not worth it comparing just buying a set of aftermarket Windsor castings. There is so much that needs to change that even if you get the heads for free it's still a really expensive proposition.
Bro I think I told you in another post, I have a 01 mustang convert.fully built head to toe teksid block custom tfs modular head shop 185r package 44cc heads!! Twin turbo t56 6speed fully built on holly system and I make 1288 on e85 race fuel is next m16 then we really make some power. Blocks a mmr 4.75 stroker with upgraded rods and pistOns with a compression ration of 10:0. My tuner thinks I can break 1500 easy
I know all cams are boost cams, but what about variable cams, why are they always removed? I'm wondering what variable a cam does under boost, the answer is the same thing as it would NA.
Lots of times the controller on the dyno doesn't have the capability to run the variable valve timing. If you want to run bigger cams it starts to run into piston to valve clearance issues and that's why limiters or lockouts are installed. If something breaks when it's stock, the valves don't hit the pistons but even a cold start when all the oil has drained can be a death sentence if bigger cams are used and they have the stock valve timing limits. Some high tech guys use the variable valve timing on K series Honda's that have I-vtec or on the 4b11 Mitsubishi. Guys do use it but stock pistons and aftermarket cams are always tricky.
Timothy Bayliss so it’s about piston to valve clearance, k series and 2j vvti guys always delete them when going bigger with cams and if you believe the internet it’s because they hurt boost spool and have too much overlap which is not true.
At the very end did he said he got a thousand horsepower out of a stock bottom end 2V with heads cam and intake and boost and modified ring gaps ? if so where is a link ?
In the 80s, we thought the manufacturers were going to kill the V8. Now, a smallish displacement V8 can hit 1,000hp with off the shelf parts relatively easily! It's a good time for engine performance!
instaBlaster
New Gt500 making 1000whp with bolt ons insane
I've ran in the low 140s in the 1/4 with a very simple 2v. Stock heads with PAC springs, stock cams, stock block, cast crank, coyote rods and a 18cc dish crap pistons. Homemade turbo kit using stock manifolds with an 83mm turbine s475. Never had it on the dyno, but that engine took 20+ psi for years lol.
Think how much faster you woulda went with any v8 from chevy.
@@HioSSilver1999 he would’ve blown up that garbage by now
@@CoyoteFTW likely not. But you have to be able to make power before you can blow it up. That mod junk can't do that.
@@HioSSilver1999 pos Chevy would have blown one first pass.
@@freedomisntfree_44 good call....that's why sbe ls has been way way faster. And did it na to boot.
Moron
Built a twin turbo 4.6L 2V that put 1100rwhp down through a 4r75w auto transmission.
TFS heads, custom cams, Edelbrock intake.
NICE
@@richardholdener1727 big bang 6.8 v10!
I'm curious what you might recommend for my situation. I have a '98 Cobra 4V that will go in my '46 Ford coupe. Want a streetable 500 NA HP on pump gas, nitrous is not out of the question.
@@erichibbs5137 you’ll need rods/pistons, but I’d run a pro charger on the 4.6 with b heads
@@supremeautosport931 I figured as much. Reworked stock heads at a minimum, reworked intake, pistons, rods, etc.
Great content. Love the fact that you actually compare similar displacement engine rather than the days of old when everybody would compare a 5 L Ford to a 5.7 L small block Chevy.
I've never seen those comparisons. The ones I've seen were Chevy 5.7L/350 v.s. Ford 5.8L/351W
They were very short lived. Folks figured out that the gm small block was a windsor 351 clone fast and.... Now ford has a new push rod and gm will copy it too.
Timothy, the sbf vs sbc has always been the 5.0(302) vs 5.7(350). I have never seen a 302 sbf vs 305 chevy.
PLEASE TAKE A LOOK AT THE 302 (5.0L) FORD VS THE 305 (5.0L) CHEVY SERIES I DID FOR CAR CRAFT OR THE VIDEOS I DID
@@richardholdener1727 thank you I will check them out
This video make me want to go out into the cold garage and uncover the old 4.8 and start cleaning it up.
Makes me completely rethink my 2010 silverado with the 4.8... might have to look for a project truck at some point.
Man you're doin god's work with how you analyze and present performance info. 👍😎
He needs more likes with the knowledge you gain from this info. I'm a Chevy guy but I did like driving my dad's 5.0 lx mustang and reving to 7k alot. I like them both . Keep up the great work!
I'd love to see a maximum effort 4.8L naturally aspirated build, they have really low compression like 9:1 compression ratio or something like that so maybe being able to bump it's compression ratio up to like 12:1 and a big honking cam would be interesting since modern engines have really high compressions like 11:1 and such
Yeaa! Ty richard for the 2v content and maybe for the next bigbang maxed out 4.6 vs 4.8 ! And for the 4.6 2v maxed out all out race setup we could ask to a guy like @Todd warren to make you a special all out custom grind for those modular! Rev it to the moon !
Ahh you are in the know!!!
I’ve got a pro charged 2v mild build making over 700hp on super safe tune. Andrew Lavender in TN makes about 1200hp on his turbo 2v.
Is she still kickin? I put a turbo on my 2v and it lasted one summer. Pulling it apart now to add rods n pistons BUT still considering a swap or somethin. Hard to decide which way to go.
@@umakemerandy3669 oh yeah. It’s a “built” engine. Forged rods,pistons and crank. Since this comment I’ve actually put a precision 88mm turbo on it and a whole bunch of other stuff. 🤦🏻♂️ kind of snowballed lol
Great stuff as always. I would be interested in "daily driiver" build where you tried to maximize HP under the curve, spool/responsiveness, low end driveablity. Say a turbo 5.3 set to make 600HP on pump gas.
You're reading my mind. Most Engine Builds you see are set for Max. HP at an RPM that few will ever see unless you're at a track.
You do some really interesting work on all this. I love the comparisons! I would love to see exhaust valve size increase on 4 valve per cylinder engines and their effect on torque/hp.
Thank God you saved all your old data from the magazine days
I have a decent 4.6 2v combo
10.5:1 static compression
Unported TFS 185 heads
242/242 115lsa turbo cams
Unported edelbrock Vic JR. Intake and plenum
Forced inductions s491 91/102 turbo
Has been 141mph to the 1/8 mile at 3120lbs on 36psi and 12 degrees of timing on e85
Internet math says about 1360 fwhp
It would be faster with a ported 4v head but I prefer the simplicity of the 2v compared to the 4v
I'M FAMILIAR WITH YOUR NAME AND WHAT YOU HAVE DONE-(RESPECT!) VERY COOL STUFF-ANY SBE 4.6L BUILDS?
@@richardholdener1727 no SBE stuff. I have flirted with the idea of a sbe with tfs heads, milder cams for less rpm and a smaller turbo. I think I could get one to live in the 600 hp range.
@@richardholdener1727 Big bang 6.8 V10!
I never really thought that much about either little engine......but I'm starting to rethink that now. Great test.
Fun fact, in SOHC format most guys (who I have met) who have owned both say the 4.6l f150 was better for towing than the 5.4l likely due to the fact that the heads were sized for the 4.6l and then just slapped on the 5.4l with everything else about the same and choked it out.
We rebuilt almost the same 2v you did (in the PI,274s,npi bottom vid) when my buddies 98 GT spun a rod bearing. It was chassis dyno'd w/ friend ported heads, .550 lift xe274s, vic jr, and you beat his numbers with 20% 5sp and acc loss. Now it's 4r70w and T-trim time.
DID IT HAVE PORTED HEADS?
@@richardholdener1727 Kind of, they were just ported by a friend. He's def no TEA. It was also like 105* when we dyno'd. It made 304whp I believe. Ill update with the T Trim, which is on the car, and again w/ the 4r70w which is layin next to the car.
@@richardholdener1727 Big bang 6.8 V10!
I love this guy and his combos.. keep the odd combos comin!!!
Hey Richard, there's a guy named Andrew Lavender on YT with a pretty serious 4.6 2v setup, very fast.
YEP-HE COMMENTED-HE DOES IMPRESSIVE STUFF
@@richardholdener1727 Big bang 6.8 V10!
Man keep these videos coming! Personally I love the sound of the 4.6 2v motors, but of course they leave you wanting more. I’d love to see you do a video on a 4.6 3v N/A.
The 2v does fine for a 281 cube motor from the 90s. It makes as much or more power than the old 302 h.o. and torque stock or modified and when it comes to modified forged internals vs forged internals the mod motors can make way more with stock block than the old 302. Idk why people think the 2v sucks it's just as good as the 302 in every way and for big power builds it can get there easier and cheaper than the 302.
Great work Richard! Happy New Year
My buddy should be hitting the chassis dyno soon in his Heads/Cam 2v.
SBE
Livernois Ported PI Heads with valve Springs (100lbs on seat/ 265lbs open at .560" lift)
MHS Stage 2 Cams (224/226 .556"/.535" 111.5 LSA, 110 Intake Centerline)
Summit Under Drive Pullies
Stock PI Intake
73mm BBK Throttle Intake
K&N Cold Air Intake
BBK Longtubes
Cat-Less X-Pipe
Moroso mufflers
Hoping for anything over 300whp with this setup. Shouldn't be too shabby for a mild 2v.
For the 2v check out Andrew lavender RUclips channel he’s making decent power
@@chelly9456 Nope, still 2V, Trickflow Twisted Wedge heads.
Andrew does it big for the 2v guys.
He is f/i ... nothing to compare .. just a forged block with a big turbo on it.. we want to see the magic ! Nothing is more satisfying then raw N/a combos numbers ! Ba motorsport is doing 9s pass with a n/a 4.6 ! That is alot more impressive! When you hit near to 500whp. On those modular 2v n/a ...thats alot more work and research then just an other guy using a turbo ...
@@teal_2v338 oh hush shit talker that n/a 4.6 cost 4x as much as his turbo setup plus motor and guess what Andrew went 8s
@@cainadkins3985 yea but put that turbo now on the that 8000rpm 450whp n/a 2v ! Result will be exponential! 9sec with 450whp is lot nore impresive to me then 8sec with 1200whp🤷♂️🥸
As a grudge racer since 15. Own 7 3-5th Camaros 2 trans am 2 Corvettes. From old school 350 406 motors to Ls an Lt. I'm seeing alot of butt hurt Ford guys in the comments. 1st thank you Richard for being honest factual. On both sides of the Ford vs Chevy deal. 2nd I'm a Gm man through an through. But I've learned more bout the capability of Ford motors through this great RUclips channel. Saying that only a fool after being given honest factual tests. By Richard will still be so butt hurt to comment stupid shit . Couse of there dislikes tords Gm ls. Look guys it's facts. Last a final Gm was is an always be the king of small blocks. If Gm wanted to copy ford we would have been switched to the over head cam motors. But we stayed true to push rod motors a very old technology. That still a over 20 plus year Ls motors are still gapping the F out of anything Ford dodge are putting out there in 2020. But thanks Richard keep the unbyest factual videos coming. Gm ls lt FTW.
Damn Rich! You made a 4.8 produce 476 HP with heads, a cam, and an intake manifold? That's nuts.
Guys an absolute dynamo, but the point is the mods are just logical bolt on (No machining) and a lot of understanding of what not to do.
Awesome huh.....
Welcome to sloppy mechanics
LS makes stupid power with simple mods.
@@boston7704 the 4v made about the same power with the same mods.
i think a revisit to the mods would be nice and bring a 4.8 ls along. those older test were done when they cam selection wasn’t great for the mods and the mods motors in your test are still using oem intake manifolds where the ls is using a good aftermarket one. the aftermarket has grown for the mod making it easier to make more hp. keep up the great testing.
he said there's more to make n no engine was trully maxed out, but yeah, gotta help the Chevy brand out since Ford out sells Chevy in every way..lol
Horsepower is great and all but when it comes to racing I'd rather have an 8 second 800 hp car than a 8 second 1000 hp car. Power production is one thing vs speed. I'd like to see comparisons of equal hp engines put into the same chasis to see which one is faster. Good video man.
John Mihovetz. 4.6L 4v, Stock block, stock crank, stock heads. 5.88 in the 1/4..
I love these ignorant clowns thinking the LS is capable of that. There's also the world record standing mile ford GT with a factory block and heads making over 3,000 hp and 300.4 in the mile in 21 seconds. No LS even billet is close. 263 for the comparison lol. LameShit LS
This was a great comparison! I always wondered how fords 4.6L stacked up to gms tiniest warrior!
First on race day
Unless you put the 4.8 or 5.3 on a light vehicle, a stock 2v will still take them, my 4k lbs P71 sure has.. Don't really care for ls swaps on Fords bcuz of that reason..lol 2v FTMFW!!
This definitely makes me wanna dyno my setup, I have a 4.6 2v with comp cams XE270AH (stage 3) with about 10.2:1 compression pistons, ported PI heads, high airflow aluminum intake and valve springs. Hopefully with the right tune it could kiss the 400whp mark.
Run it on e85?
You will most definitely not hit 400whp lol MAYBE 300-350 MAX
Probably closer to 350 because you get about 300 with stage 1s and ported 🤔 heads
@@TerryByrdJr I've seen guys touch 300 wheel with fbo and cams only on 93 octane. That combo will easily do 350+ to the tire.
Thank you Richard. I love this.
I want to see a big bang 97 cobra engine. Stock rods/pistons teksid block. Stock b heads. Cams and boost. That's it. Plenty of mark viii in the wrecking yards.
I’m a ls guy. However I run demolition derby’s and those 4.6 motors people use them in there crown Victorias they can get hot as hell and keep going.
The ls probably has stronger rods stock, but the mod motors can belt out a LOT of power if built right. Pretty sure the 4.8 benefits from its smaller bore by sealing better on top of its r/s ratio makes for an optimal junkyard setup.
Got a built 2v.
Ported tfs heads
Custom cams
Cobra crank
Making over 700 with more to go. Going for over a 1000 with bigger turbo. Only a 7675 at the moment. These little 2vs have come along way. Like says belong Andrew lavender is one badass 2v
With tfs heads especially ported ones they can make real good power with some good cams. The 2v is legit for what it is not sure why it gets so much flack especially considering how easily found they are and low priced.
I'm thinking about putting a rear mount turbo on my 2004 Town car
Just do it, everything is better with boost.
Trans upgrades will make it a lot more fun. Do the J Mod and a high stall convertor ( like 3600 rpm and up with a lockup ). You'll be shocked at how it runs.
Probably be cheaper and make more power to ls swap
10.5:1 compression on a 4.6 4v with ported C heads ,long tubes , c head cobra intake with SH stage 2 cams makes 500 flywheel hp. That 8 compression ratio robbed the motor nearly 20 hp
Hmmm, need more details please. Sounds perfect for my '46 Ford coupe!
This was interesting had no idea the mod motors were that stocky and durable.
You have no idea. Just like the old windsor days. Gm is copying things to stay relevant. Trying to hold onto that Windsor LS clone. Now they have to try and copy the new 351 before anyone notices this time.
Mods are tanks. You will never see an LS with 700k miles uncracked. Let alone 700k+ miles under boost.
@@brandona4618 I thought the 4.6’s and the 5.4’s were limited to 400rwhp I have no idea the potential of the four valve. I know that they could only make power with a power adder n/a was not very impressive.
@@cesar101387 yeah but don't get a fleet vehicle engine unless you're adding forged internals, i wanted the 5.1L stroker kit for my 2v but that company stop existing so now gotta find it a diff way, sucks for me.. :(
@@cesar101387 nah you can get great power outta them
I am quite aware this is one of Richard's older posts. However, Andrew Lavender (who if you are a 4.6 2v person probably know) got a turbo charged 2v (with a 3v block) into the 7s in the quarter. Even though the 67 and 68 Mustang are the best-looking Mustangs of all time (in my opinion), I think the New Edge (like my 2001 GT) come in second.
I like the 64-66 behind the Boss 302s (and other 69-70) body styles
Any true big bang on E85 is all win Richard, as long as you have enough turbo, enough fuel system, and enough MAP sensor to truly max them out. With those items in place, I will kick in bucks for every single one you want to do, and I bet LOTS of others on here will too.
Who's with me?!?! $5 each probably covers Richard's normal costs for a junkyard big bang experiment at 1000-2000 contributors... Or fewer contributors if we do $10 each, obviously.
THNX FOR THE SUPPORT-NOT SURE IF E85 HAS ENOUGH OCTANE TO DO WHAT WE NEED TO DO ON THE BIG BANG MOTORS (AT 30-40 PSI)
@@richardholdener1727 I absolutely cannot argue with that logic sir! :) Sign me up!! Lol
@@richardholdener1727 Big bang 6.8 V10!
The little 4.6 that could! I’m not a Ls guy at all but I was hyped seeing the 4.6 make more power than the Ls.
But it didn't
@@HioSSilver1999 961hp with the 4.6 and 957hp with the ls
@@kyleaversa173 4hp....lol....from furds max performance 4v to a pick up truck engine.
That's not a win dude.
@@HioSSilver1999 just mad a little 4.6 made more and you were wrong. Go take your slow ls junkyard motor and kick rocks! Watch the coyote vs the 5.3 and they have to do so much work to the 5.3 to make it even close. Lmao. They do have coyotes and predator motors so not max tha6s a old 4.6 and your mad it's okay. Go hug your boyfriend. 😄 And it's less cubic inches. Bounce!
@@kyleaversa173 4hp....vs a truck motor.......lmao. That hurt you didn't it. Look at the 5.3 vs 5.4 . There's way more than a 4hp difference when the 5.3 stomped day ass.
I bet your na modular is a turd just like the rest of them boi.
Would be cool if these was a chart for various engines listing, safe power levels, risky, and likely exploded. :-)
It would be interesting to see how the 4.6 4v would do with cams optimized to make power at 7500 RPM. Stock Coyotes turn 7000 - 8000 RPMs stock.
You been reading the brochure too much.
@@brandona4618 What brochure?
@@Flitzer514 you aint wrapping a single mod motor that high stock. The factroy ecu wont even registor past 6500 and cannot be tuned further.
Your saving argument MIGHT be that its a yote 4v. But you are not wrapping it that high and that engine staying together
THE STOCK COYOTE ECU CAN'T BE TUNED PAST 6500-THAT IS SOME NONSENSE
I have a 2 valve running an mmr 5.0 stroker kit 10/1compression ported Tfs heads ported edelbrock victor jr and custom grinds it costed over 20k the way I built it a lot of people say it was dumb I could have built a sickass ls but the bright side is there’s very few 2valves built the way mines is
Ok in your opinion the 4.6 4v was ran with 57 mm turbos and the 4.8 had 76 mm turbos whats the difference in the turbos and theyre power outputs and air flow because it sounds like the 4.6 had smaller turbos than the 4.8 but made slightly better gains
But the boost was the same, so the size of the turbo doesn't seem to matter in this comparison
@@Matticus289 boost isn't really a comparable thing. Boost is a measure of restriction. These being 2 completely different combos with completely different turbo setups will yield a difference in volume of air flow at the same boost levels.
@@kylebryant2379 Air pressure = air pressure = air pressure. So, yes, boost is a comparable thing. Especially since heat exchangers were used....so temp with the smaller turbos is not a thing. The 76's have the capability to push more air...but that wasn't the objective here. These weren't max effort builds. And if these were single turbo setups...they the size might would matter much more. But for a non-max effort TT comparison...the size doesn't really come into play here.
@@BEBNC1 literally the most ignorant comment I've ever seen. Kyle was spot on with his comment. Take for instance the exact same car. In this case we'll use a srt4 neon as reference. With its small factory turbo it can make ~20 lbs of boost and would produce ~350 whp. Swap that stock turbo with a 6265 (with supporting mods) and at the same boost level that same car is now making 600+. Why? Because that larger turbo is able to flow more volume at the exact same boost level.
Also think of it like a hose. If you push 10 psi through a very small hose, you're not really moving much air. However you blow 10 psi through a 2" hose and now you're moving a whole lot of air!
@@kylebryant2379 Depends on the context. In this context, it is. The point was to compare the response of two rather different motors (ford vs a chevy, 4v vs 2v, etc) of similar displacement with the same boost. So, in this context, boost is most definitely a comparable thing
Push'em till they pop! Let's see who wins! It's clear the chevy ls platform is dominant at this point... Let's see when those chains break.
Thank you Richard
You the " MAN " !!
Honest, legitimate testing & results.
Amazing bone stock LS & Vortec heads flow in big block territory on
simple single cam & only 2 valves.
Nobody got time for 4 cams 32 valve over price over complicated
engines unless your talking Lexus - Toyota..hint hint Lexus UZFE big bang please !!!
Sweet comparisons bro 😎 but I still feel Chevy always has to have bigger liters to beat Ford 5.0 and 4.6’s lol I mean a 4.8 is still bigger? Lol and the camaro had even bigger then that displacement engines? So we should have Gm make a 4.6 liter and Ford to make bigger engines to compete with and see what’s what ? I’m sure they both will have winning engines against one another this way? What do u think? I also thinks it’s amazing Ford did this suggestion with the new Godzilla 7.3 liter and I’m excited to see what it will do!!! Thx for the great comparison vids man!!!!
Now we all know gm cant compete in same liter size engines. Thats why everything they drop is way bigger same with dodge
The furd junk is always more complicated, heavier.....and still don't make as much power.
@@HioSSilver1999 beat it guy. Liars get no airtime
@@ranware2779 then you should stop lying.
@@HioSSilver1999 its crazy you say that.... sounds like a direct copy.. caugh ls engines 🤣 beat it fella nobody cares how cheap you can go..... louis cheverolet definitely knew they were built on bullshit
1999 mustang gt ( 4.6 2v pi ) with the only modification being bigger fuel injectors and 6psi from a turbo put down 450whp
Got a fuel/boost only 2v myself. Haven’t had it on a dyno yet but at 7 psi it pulls harder than anything else ive driven. Curious if mine would be there.
I’ll be doing boost Manley rods and hoping 450-500 to the tire
Ive always liked the bmw v8, like the 4.4L from the late 90s, could you please do a video of one of those motors with a turbo or 2. They are supposed to be pretty stout. Ive had a couple of them and they are very torquey. Love your vids. Keep up the fun!
Ford had a sohc 427 V8 back in the 60's
YES-THE CAMMER
@@richardholdener1727 Im not a Ford man but that Cammer is a mean looking engine.
@@richardholdener1727 Big bang 6.8 V10!
Well it should be super easy to find a mark Vii lsc in a junkyard and lots of people will argue its a better engine/block combo then the cobra minus the 03/04 cobras forged internals of course. I know with forged internals the teksid block will hold stupid power numbers but the early modular engines are known for weak rods but i would love to see a big bang on an lsc
My 2v made 630rwhp with TFS heads, cams, Novi 2000 SC, built motor, at 17psi. Not super powerful but she was fun. Much more fun with a turbo, even at 100hp less with current turbo kit.
Man the LS just can’t be beat
Not a fair comparison. Those 76s flow way more than the tiny 57s you had on the 4.6 4v
Please test stock bottom end 46 4 valve mother. One is a 1997 Lincoln. the other is 2003 Lincoln Ls. I really like these moters. thanks for all the content. happy New Year's.
Should ask to ba motorsports and todd warren for some magic combos on the 4.6 2v! Ba motorsports got some videos of 9s pass with a 4.6 2v n/a reving 8000rpm with some high cr Svo heads/svo intake that could compare to a max ported pi heads and bullitt intake combo.. with all the supporting valvetrain
Torn between gapping the rings and turbocharging blow thru/E85 on my VERY low mileage LE9 carb truck high output 305 sitting on the stand awaiting to go into a minty 95 S10 project OR going forth with a 4.8 and a hair dryer. It's coming to dollars and cents. Salvage yards around here have gotten hip to their worth. All said and done if I go that route I'm looking at $1,400 altogether and haven't even popped a valve cover off. OTOH, with the 305 I'll have about $350 total in it before boost and if it scatters then oh well!?! Not out to break 5's, just hit the streets and have a good time.
Would be good to see the boost comparison with the same turbos - 57mm vs 76mm is a large difference in CFM for the same boost pressure - the 4.6L 4V would make way more power with twin 76mm given back pressure isn’t an issue - thoughts? - great comparison though - I currently have a 2v big bore stroker 323ci with twin 67mm
Yea that is a huge difference in turbo size.
The bottom ends change between the 4.6s the 03-04 has lower compression pistons and the 93-98 99-01 have flat top pistons
Having written a book on the mod motors-I'm familiar
@@richardholdener1727 lol was answering what you said on the video no offense Richard.
Always love your videos would like to see more 3 & 4-cylinder stuff and maybe when it comes out on the market a 3cyl
koenigsegg free valve engine big bang that would be cool. But don't know if you have enough computing power in that building for it!!! Crazy shit...
Good luck getting ahold of one...
@@Prestiged_peck I'm getting there I got a go fund me page going for it. figure only 2.5 million dollars more and I should have a deposit...
@@MB-ib5ji lol at that point just buy the designs for the early 2000s short deck v10 from ford, and maybe the 4v head design they had for the triple 7 project (later became the 2v 6.2l) maybe even get the old koenigsegg 4.6l head designs too and make bank. Get the new 5.0l koenigsegg head designs too while you're at it because supposedly they'll "bolt right up" to the coyote/voodoo/predator blocks.
4.6 4v torque plateau is amazing
Horsepower per dollar, it’s hard to beat a Chevy.
True it just hurts my inner car guy to put a ls in a ford 😂 sure in a Chevy but it kills me seeing a ls in a ford
As a mustang guy the junkyard ls is always the answer!
Yes we're all Mustangs belong
@@bradhaliburton5974 what??????even ls engines like being in mustangs
You should do a ford v10
YES
Northstar would be interesting.
Yea just bring a few sets of head gaskets lol
and head studs
I honestly like the idea. Again, install the big thread head studs.
@@erikmyers2490 get a post 2005 one, they are fairly solid
Head studs ot course. I do have one with 230k miles. I've only put crank sensors. Water pump and ignition Module .plus tune up stuff.
It’s a tuff one to figure which one makes the best gains. On one hand Chevy got that beautiful hp and tq curve that wins races and would eat Ford 4.6 na all day but then when boost is added the 4.6 benefits from the extra rpm even though the curves are not smooth through out. Also it had an air to water vs air to air in a stationary spot so might have better gains from the air to water on a dyno. In either case they are great good video man.
i beat a 5.3 swapped single cab Silverado with my stock 09 P71, 5.3 was open headers n intake, i just had a remote SCT 93 octane tune n heavy ass 17x12 widened steelies on 345/40r17" tires, dude had more torque off the line but he was def surprised he couldn't beat a stock Slow.6 2v..lol
@TigreLoko24 they aren't as superior as the ls fanboys wanna believe. In fact my experience is quite the opposite. The old 4v held its own against the larger gm stuff. Kind of like the coyote does now. Some things never change. They do really good all motor for their displacement but they shine with boost. 4v plus boost is a cheat code
Have a customer/friend that goes 178mph in the quarter and its a stock wap block, stock stroke @ 3200lbs. Have posted in sloppy before
Basically the stock bottom end of a 4.6L 4V has the same type of rods and pistons as the 2V with the pistons being closer to the NPI style then the PI in compression ratio but they are made with the same types of materials and although the 4V has a forged crank at hp levels under 1000 the factory 2V cast crank is more then enough so that with a good tune and ring gaps made for boost the stock bottom end of a 2V with a good tune should be able to withstand 650 hp levels reliably ? granted the big thing here is ring gap opened up because that whole dont go over 450 hp on a stock bottom end rule of thumb is with stock NA ring gaps never intended for boost. Which is why when you here people putting forged pistons and boss rods in 4.6l bottom end they say 750 hp is attainable ? I think it is mainly because when doing that they are setting ring gaps for boost and that in reality the boss rods which are also powdered pos stock rods are really not that much better then stock oem 2V rods they are just given a lot of hype because people are using them in modified configurations (forged pistons with ring gap set for boost)
Is there anyone out there running a 2V with stock bottom end and ring gaps for boost making 650 hp or so ?
and this is where running on the street versus the dyno is a big factor because a dyno cannot reproduce the strain of lugging a horse trailer up a 5 mile hill under boost . as in take a lot of those dyno max hpo run engines and toss them in a car and see how long they last if not detuned a shit ton.
you don't ever lug a horse trailer up a hill with a 650-hp PI Mustang and the dyno load is much worse than the street.
I’d love to see you do some vids on the 2003-2004 Terminator Cobra motor 4.6 4v especially versus say the 2007-2009 GT500 5.4 4v. And say also versus a C6 corvette Z06 motor.
I HAVE LOTS OF TERMINATOR TESTING-DID YOU LOOK AT THE VIDS I HAVE UP?
@@richardholdener1727 will do. Forgot I should search that ahead of time before asking my question lol. Thanks for posting these videos by the way. They are very good, not biased, you are just here to see what performs the best.
I'd be interesting to see you put prices on each of the engine upgrades/modifications both Ford and GM and corresponding HP/TQ levels, what peoples responses would be. #nobrainer
It always comes down to cost. That is always ls guys arguments and the 4.8 prob does cost less than a 4v 4.6 theyre alot more common its to be expected but if you have a mustang there is alot involved in swapping an ls that wouldn't be necessary keeping the mod motor so that in and of itself offsets alot of the cost. Ls are great engines but I cannot stand them to be swapped into mustangs especially mustangs that had a badass engine to start with (like the 4v 4.6). No reason to swap anything. As far as the cost to do the mods the only thing that is going to be significantly higher is cams because there is 4 and not just 1. Outside of that cost isn't as far apart as what you'd think. The ls has been literally beat to death God I am so sick of them. I wouldn't swap one into my mustang if it was given to me. I'd find an s10 for it to go in.
I think the right question is how much torque can the engine take, the rews will not put that much strain on the engine as long as you stay in reasonable limits torque is probably the thing that kills the parts 🤔
Momentum vs force...... momentum times force (hp times tq). You may be on to something.
I would use the 5.0 4 valve to compare against the 4.8LS.
THAT VIDEO IS UP
The coyote smoked the 4.8 or 5.3 it took the 6 liter to Match or exceed the power output of the gen 1 coyote and it had full aftermarket heads cam intake where the gen 1 coyote had a boss manifold, ported stock heads and cams. This was a gen 1 coyote when they first came out he tested. It's pretty obvious the 5 liter owns especially when boost enters the equation lol. The old 4v was badass and the coyote is just a newer iteration of the same thing with more displacement, rpm, compression, headflow and tech. It is an animal.
While on a standard 4 valve 4.6 that's not an 03/04 Cobra doesn't have the Forged rods yeah it's not going to hold as much power of course
I’ve always been curious as to what the true power limit is on a stock 4.6 2v bottom end is. Everyone always claims 400-500 RWHP, but that’s always boosted, and no one ever modified ring gap as far as I know of. I’m wondering if the issue is truly rod/piston failure, or if it wasn’t ring end gap butting together causing piston/rod failure. It would be interesting to see for sure what it truly is.
i think he's gone to over 600hp on the 2v without it blowing up, so he was like, "it can def handle more than 400hp"..
@@P71ScrewHead right, which would put it in the 450-550 RWHP range like I said, but around there is where everyone claims is the limit for the stock bottom end. I’m curious as to just how far it will go.
WE'VE DONE OVER 700 HP WITH STOCK INTERNALS
@@richardholdener1727 dayum, i didn't know you've taken it that far, nice..
@@bigbruno84 well, he just replied n said over 700hp, i think its the drivetrain that may cause it to blow up once its in the car, seems understandable to me..
Would you consider doing a video of coyote intake manifolds on 5.4 4vs with the adapter plates? I’m curious how those dyno numbers stack up.
He included that in a big intake test
@@Prestiged_peck do you have a link? Only one I’m seeing was the 4.6 intake test
NEVER RUN THE COYOTE INTAKES ON A 5.4L
@@richardholdener1727 Big bang 6.8 V10!
@@reedlaww it appears I was wrong
How about a 4.7 chrysler v8?
Another awesome video!!
I've seen 500rwhp from stock SC'd PI 2v mustangs. Risky because the weak pistons and rods but impressive nonetheless. Been in a new (at the time) terminator Cobra with a blowzilla w/ 667 rwhp (again engine totally stock), owner blew the tranny at 11k then the engine at 16k. He never fixed it, sold the car as is with 16k miles (he was the owner of a mustang shop also). The power was literally tearing the car apart, the interior trim pieces were falling out of place, everything in and on it rattled and shook under acceleration. This is why I always modified the "big" cars instead (Mark 7, Mark 8, Thunderbird, Cougar).
I've never heard of people's terminators falling apart from 667 rwhp nor have I seen too many terminator engines going at that power level at that low of miles it sounds like your friend and/or his tuner didn't do the car any favors. They're pretty good cars and they can live easily past 800 wheel many have done it.
Boosted Gen 2 SBC LT1 next please!
Same as a gen 1 being its same rods pistons and crank.
@@trevermonk8575 they call it a gen 2 because the heads are not interchangeable with gen1 SBC's. Other parts such as the opti spark, etc.
But through out the years of LT1s 93-95 had the forged "pink" rods and 96 and 97 had powdered metal rods.
I'd really like to see a 4V head for the GM Gen III & IV motors and then do Ford/Chevy comparison. I think Merc made a 7L LS variant with 4V heads that made serious power NA. Maybe a set of those heads on a more common JY SBE motor and a comparison between similar displacement 2V motors.
Are you trying to see a simple yet crazy 2v combo with boost? Stock unported PI heads I have one that’s almost finished and we’re hoping to see 900whp+ on a mustang dyno
with enough boost
@@richardholdener1727 was going to target around 25-28psi which isn’t insane. I’ve been working with Todd Warren for awhile on this project.
4.6L Cadillac Northstar, the LH2 version.....
We had a '00 4.6 2v with stock internals, added an On3 76mm turbo with an air to air intercooler. At 8.5lbs in was dyno'ed at 408hp 403flbs torque at the rear wheels. Unfortunately threw rod #1 and rod #5 through opposite sides of the block. Guessing ring gap ended our fun :/
I’ll be doing similar but be getting manley h beam rods
@@alberthunt8501 with those rods you can make way more. 600-700 to the wheels shouldn't be a problem (reliably)
@@midnight347 I’m kinda over building the bottom to help aid in not scattering things
@@alberthunt8501 not a bad idea. Manly rods could prob get you to 600 wheel easily on stock cast crank.. the rods were the weakest link in the engine once those are upgraded the rest of the parts can take quite a bit more power.
Why didn’t you compare the charts from a turbo 2V???
The 2v can make power. It just takes a bit more boost. 1100 wheel hp is definitely doable. I have even seen 1000 hp on stock ported heads. It's definitely the harder way but it can compete. My little 2v isn't very impressive at mid 500 wheel hp but that's not the motors fault. That's because I need to build my trans before I add more boost
The 4.6 2v also supplies a pretty good power/torque curve. They tend to make a great torque curve for such a small motor.
I agree love the 2v torque curve just wish it was a higher rever ..
@@NewEdgeDesigns you can definitely make them Rev I've seen guys turning 8k out of them. Gotta have revs if you don't have cubes.
My moms not going to know what hit her when she gets her ford explorer back.
There is no comparison. The Ferd is a top heavy, noisy, needlessly complex, expensive and difficult, less durable engine. Can you make it make power? You can make a 1.6l engine make power if you spend enough. The question is why bother?
Richard, I've been seeing a ford small block ls head swap floating around. Do you think there would be significant gains in doing this?
Guys have done it but by the time everything is paid for its not worth it comparing just buying a set of aftermarket Windsor castings. There is so much that needs to change that even if you get the heads for free it's still a really expensive proposition.
ITS VERY LABOR INTENSIVE TO DO IT-JUST GET GOOD 351W HEADS
@@richardholdener1727 thanks for the info man
@@richardholdener1727 Big bang 6.8 V10!
Well, that was comparable.
I might have missed it, but have you done a power comparison on an e85 engine with an without an intercooler?
I HAVE NOT RUN THAT TEST
@@richardholdener1727 Big bang 6.8 V10!
Bro I think I told you in another post, I have a 01 mustang convert.fully built head to toe teksid block custom tfs modular head shop 185r package 44cc heads!! Twin turbo t56 6speed fully built on holly system and I make 1288 on e85 race fuel is next m16 then we really make some power. Blocks a mmr 4.75 stroker with upgraded rods and pistOns with a compression ration of 10:0. My tuner thinks I can break 1500 easy
good luck
Comment for the algorithm 👍
I didn't build the motor so I don't know the specs, but I helped tune a 2 valve to over 1200 HP to the wheel on a mustang dyno. They can make power.
PROBABLY NOT A STOCK BOTTOM END THOUGH
@@richardholdener1727 nope
Really good video. Thanks for this comparison.
I know all cams are boost cams, but what about variable cams, why are they always removed? I'm wondering what variable a cam does under boost, the answer is the same thing as it would NA.
Lots of times the controller on the dyno doesn't have the capability to run the variable valve timing. If you want to run bigger cams it starts to run into piston to valve clearance issues and that's why limiters or lockouts are installed. If something breaks when it's stock, the valves don't hit the pistons but even a cold start when all the oil has drained can be a death sentence if bigger cams are used and they have the stock valve timing limits. Some high tech guys use the variable valve timing on K series Honda's that have I-vtec or on the 4b11 Mitsubishi. Guys do use it but stock pistons and aftermarket cams are always tricky.
If it makes more power N/A, then its highly highly likely that itll make more power under boost.....
Timothy Bayliss so it’s about piston to valve clearance, k series and 2j vvti guys always delete them when going bigger with cams and if you believe the internet it’s because they hurt boost spool and have too much overlap which is not true.
Would like to see a shoot out on a 5.3 with the summit cams. How does a bone stock 5.3 with cam and spring stack up from all the summit cams?
I dig the intro music too!
Mod motors have always been better. It just takes the right tuner and parts to do it.
At the very end did he said he got a thousand horsepower out of a stock bottom end 2V with heads cam and intake and boost and modified ring gaps ? if so where is a link ?
was not a stock bottom end
How about a stock bottom end 5.4 navigator engine test for max boost.
Really great motor!
He already did that, look it up