I had a very interesting conversation with my heart specialist. He's been climbing for twenty years and is somewhat experienced on high peaks. He made his first Everest attempt ten years ago and got to camp 2 in what he described as "excellent condition". That night he dreamed that he got lost in a whiteout higher up the mountain and fell to his death. It scared him that much he immediately packed up his gear and went back down. He told me he had never been a superstitious man - but somehow he KNEW if he went up he'd die. I asked him did he regret his decision looking back? He smiled wryly and said "Not one bit!". He's since been back but was forced to abandon the climb because of terrible weather.
Now THAT is an intelligent man! Putting his own safety (and possibly anyone who would have had to try and rescue him) ahead of emotions and pride. That right there could save so many needless deaths.
@@smileygladhands He didn't consider himself an intelligent man. Indeed, he figured it was the least intelligent decision he'd made that trip. After all - he's attaching significance to a dream. Which isn't reality. No matter. He went down. He survived. Had he gone up he may well have fallen down the mountain. Or he might have summited. Who knows?
Honestly I think there might be something wrong with you if you don't have those in that situation. Doesn't mean it's a premonition, just that death is very close. And not to belittle these people, but that is really on any mountain. A buddy of mine was killed climbing a wall in Norway. Not hard by his standards, summer, no snow and obviously you have plenty of air on Norwegian mountains. But someone above him accidentally kicked loose a stone that hit him in the noggin. One tiny mistake + two seconds = dead. If this doesn't concern you at all wherever you are in the mountains you shouldn't be up there. There are good reasons people go up slowly. Not just altitude sickness.
Despite not meeting their goals, this is one of the better presented and narrated expedition. You could really follow well in well presented chronological order what difficulty they faced and how they overame it. It was really nice and immersive. And they were not playing with the audience with flashback and out of order and unclear progress and situation. This was sincerely presented. Some stunning natural colors without the awful digital crap saturated colors we get now in 8k. Beautiful dreamy filmography pure and fresh. This is a successful expedition from that aspect. I'd be the first to critic brits, but not on this. Well done lads.
My first mountaineering film of the Christmas holiday, very good it was too. I love the down-to-earth real time commentary and the sounds of the mountain. I hope those men who felt they were unsuccessful at the time were eventually able to look back at an enjoyable trip.
This was pure. Unlike the commercial expeditions that one typically sees in these Everest docos. This showed a more technical side to the highest mountain in the world. I'm not sure anyone could successfully summit (and make it back down) in winter? Was interesting to listen to their 'climbing' conversations too. One thing that puzzles me though : in that degree of isolation and cold, how on earth did they pick up dysentery?
I watched this last night....it was beautiful. What these men accomplished is more than most. Although it might have been a big let down....a high adventure mixes with the intelligence to know when it's time to throw in the towel in order to secure your life...I ♡ it. Many of these dudes are surely alive today. I will have to go down that rabbit hole later on.
A true glimpse into how Everest should be climbed. The climbing team doing all the work (fixing rope, carrying loads, establishing high camps) to progress up the mountain. Unfortunate circumstances with the health issues, high winds and poor weather ultimately preventing a summit attempt. The discussion in base camp at the end was quite illuminating in showing climber frustrations with some feeling people gave up before they had reached their true limits.
@@tyleru96 - It's more like a union thing. There are only so many potential climbs in a season and if people climb without them they are out of a job. They are free to be part of any rescue attempt outside of their own employer's group. Even then they could refuse, obviously, they are not slaves but if they refused to help rescue one of their own clients they'd be out of a job.
thanks for this interesting and adventurous story, these were tough and rugged strong men to try this in the winter, west ridge - near straight up vertical climbs with ropes in the snow, ice and cold, no Sherpa support nor bottled oxygen - really amazing what they tried -compared to what the climbers today are doing - thanks again for sharing
i have had my tent lifted up on ledge one night. you feel your guy lines stretching the pull you back down. it dose get your attention. this video is one of the best everest documentary.
I have never climbed any mountains and don't ever plan to, but I've been watching a ton of videos on this channel for the last few days! It's amazing what people are capable of when they have the right amount of determination balanced with the right amount of caution to know when to turn back!
this lot were absolutely bonkers!! lol ill as f*ck, 100mph winds, minus 50, digging snow caves, roping, scaling 1000 foot granite up Everest in winter..absolute madness!!!
The musical score was an interesting choice. Rather than an air of excitement it gives a feeling of melancholy and slowness. The result is likely a true reflection of how the men felt fighting the mountain and illness.
The difficulties of this expedition were all of the physical and altitude challenges presented by the winter season and the technical difficulties. Rouse is often critizesed for lack of leadership. But the real reason that the team could not pull all its skill, experience and strength was because of illness caused by a kitchen at base camp that did not make the water and cooking food bombproof . Giardia meant that half the team were permentely on antibiotics and suffering from intestinal problems. In following years they all learnt this problem and how to deal with it. How do I know? because I was there.
Reinhold Messner in one of his interviews said that “exactly 50% of climbers I have ever known died in the mountains”. There are 8 people in titles, and 4 of them died. I wonder if they somehow knew that a half of them will die for sure, would they quit mountaineering..
No. These people know life is short. They live it. In the end does it really matter how long or short your life is? I think, its may be better to die young and just move on up. Its easier then to watch loved ones go. This is a mind twisting discussion.
Now this is climbing Everest. If you don't climb this way, basically you are hiring men to possibly die for a walk to the top of the world. Well done men, you are my heroes, you and the Sherpa people. The old school is the toughest
Reminds me of 3 Years later when Tim Snape and Mortimer forged a new route direct up the North Face to Norton Couloir including a decent in the dark all without supO2. Had a similarly capable team but the big difference being a summit in the Autumn
Wow!! Seen this before, great work, good fun, hard work, talented team, and not another team or lines of climbers behind them. The real deal. ❤ these beauties ❤
Great documentary, awesome post sir. Amazing times those must have been. Sad to see that some of the men gave up but I think it was for the best because if they would have let the peer pressure coarse them to go for it, I think lives would have been lost. It just wasn't there for that group.
Love these old mountaineering films. What has happened to mountains like Everest is really sickening! I watched a sad film about a group of sherpa trying to clean up the mountain. Not just rubbish but human bones from years ago, as they re-emerged from the ice-fall. They have turned one of the most beautiful places on earth into a rubbish tip. Rampant selfishness!!
I sorry to learn that Joe Tasker died on Everest 2yrs later. He was in his prime in this Xlnt documentary. 16mm is beautiful WOW. What an amazing team & incredible effort. I truly believe that w/the proper support the Burgess brothers & Tasker would've made the summit. Team stretched too thin after the 2 guys bailed. Q: What was the Dr. doing about team health, disentary etc.? Snowcaves are the best!
Joe Tasker died the next year (1982) on Everest, Brian Hall died on Mount Hood in 2006 I believe. For this expedition I bet they wish they'd made a better plan/appointed a leader. Twin seemed frustrated at the end.
Wish there was a documentary of the polish expedition that successfully did the first winter ascent Everest without oxygen and by taking the more difficult South Side route.
South route is more difficult? You joking right? It is the easiest way. And if you mean 1980 expedition, they used O2. Please educate yourself before putting something on web.
I spent a couple of months in India and Nepal in 1977 and had frequent problems with dysentery and food poisoning. I'd love to go back, but now at 69, I don't know if I'd survive it.
I’ve just read Kingdoms of Experience re Mal Duff’s expedition to the North East Ridge of Everest. This expedition suffered the same deficiency I.e. no proper leadership. You can have a go at Chris Bonington but it was planning, planning, planning. And he’s not the only one.
The winter season there ends officially not on 31Jan but on 15Feb. The first successful winter ascent took part on 17Feb 1980 by two Poles (is on 17Feb still winter on Everest? yes it is)
Last sentence from Tasker is prescient: "Physically we didn't push ourselves to the limit and I don't think we stuck our necks out as regards danger" With that attitude, he would likely have come back from Bonington's 82 expedition 🤷♂️
Joe Tasker was in a different class, to "ALL" of the other members in this expedition. Alan Rouse was a very competent rock climber, with a limited knowledge of high altitude mountaineering. Alex Mclntyre would have been a great addition, to this climbing team, a top class experienced winter climber. Dr Pete Thexton would die from complications of altitude sickness, when participating in a later expedition.
52:13 we are on the verge of WWIII yet he’s saying there’s never been less wars in history? And yes “there’s never been a better time to be alive” IN THE WEST where we are sheltered & don’t get to see the real struggle. We don’t have to worry about our children starving or being blown into pieces by a bomb or worry whether we will even wake up tomorrow. If “this is the best time to be alive” then why is he only frequenting SAFE western countries? Why not take a stroll through Palestine or Sudan or even Ukraine? THE HYPOCRISY MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL!
Absolute legends,love these old docs
I had a very interesting conversation with my heart specialist. He's been climbing for twenty years and is somewhat experienced on high peaks. He made his first Everest attempt ten years ago and got to camp 2 in what he described as "excellent condition". That night he dreamed that he got lost in a whiteout higher up the mountain and fell to his death. It scared him that much he immediately packed up his gear and went back down. He told me he had never been a superstitious man - but somehow he KNEW if he went up he'd die. I asked him did he regret his decision looking back? He smiled wryly and said "Not one bit!". He's since been back but was forced to abandon the climb because of terrible weather.
Smart man, always listen to to your intuition, especially if you're not superstitious.
Now THAT is an intelligent man! Putting his own safety (and possibly anyone who would have had to try and rescue him) ahead of emotions and pride. That right there could save so many needless deaths.
@@smileygladhands He didn't consider himself an intelligent man. Indeed, he figured it was the least intelligent decision he'd made that trip. After all - he's attaching significance to a dream. Which isn't reality. No matter. He went down. He survived. Had he gone up he may well have fallen down the mountain. Or he might have summited. Who knows?
And that heart specialist was young Albert Einstein
Honestly I think there might be something wrong with you if you don't have those in that situation. Doesn't mean it's a premonition, just that death is very close. And not to belittle these people, but that is really on any mountain. A buddy of mine was killed climbing a wall in Norway. Not hard by his standards, summer, no snow and obviously you have plenty of air on Norwegian mountains. But someone above him accidentally kicked loose a stone that hit him in the noggin. One tiny mistake + two seconds = dead.
If this doesn't concern you at all wherever you are in the mountains you shouldn't be up there. There are good reasons people go up slowly. Not just altitude sickness.
Despite not meeting their goals, this is one of the better presented and narrated expedition. You could really follow well in well presented chronological order what difficulty they faced and how they overame it. It was really nice and immersive. And they were not playing with the audience with flashback and out of order and unclear progress and situation. This was sincerely presented. Some stunning natural colors without the awful digital crap saturated colors we get now in 8k. Beautiful dreamy filmography pure and fresh. This is a successful expedition from that aspect. I'd be the first to critic brits, but not on this. Well done lads.
The colors are the same, just better film! 😂🤣
Pompous 🤡
My first mountaineering film of the Christmas holiday, very good it was too. I love the down-to-earth real time commentary and the sounds of the mountain. I hope those men who felt they were unsuccessful at the time were eventually able to look back at an enjoyable trip.
This was pure. Unlike the commercial expeditions that one typically sees in these Everest docos. This showed a more technical side to the highest mountain in the world. I'm not sure anyone could successfully summit (and make it back down) in winter?
Was interesting to listen to their 'climbing' conversations too.
One thing that puzzles me though : in that degree of isolation and cold, how on earth did they pick up dysentery?
Dehydration leads to the runs
@@udontknow1657 and the runs cause dehydration.. what a paradox
These documentaries are well done and I love watching them and I get a glimpse of how life is there. Well done
Shows the mountain as the beast she is.
Documentaries in general were better back then.
@@billywall7752 what do you mean to say? Isn't pawn stars good enough for you?
I watched this last night....it was beautiful. What these men accomplished is more than most. Although it might have been a big let down....a high adventure mixes with the intelligence to know when it's time to throw in the towel in order to secure your life...I ♡ it. Many of these dudes are surely alive today. I will have to go down that rabbit hole later on.
no one cares
@ Dennis Tedder, suck it up kidder, it will get better one day.
@@technomickdocumentalist2495??!
6 died climbing.
A true glimpse into how Everest should be climbed. The climbing team doing all the work (fixing rope, carrying loads, establishing high camps) to progress up the mountain. Unfortunate circumstances with the health issues, high winds and poor weather ultimately preventing a summit attempt. The discussion in base camp at the end was quite illuminating in showing climber frustrations with some feeling people gave up before they had reached their true limits.
The Sherpas will not thank you for it. They get pretty pissed when climbers go up without them.
@@AnyoneCanSee and understandably so, because they're usually the ones tasked with trying to rescue climbers who run into trouble.
@@tyleru96 - It's more like a union thing. There are only so many potential climbs in a season and if people climb without them they are out of a job. They are free to be part of any rescue attempt outside of their own employer's group. Even then they could refuse, obviously, they are not slaves but if they refused to help rescue one of their own clients they'd be out of a job.
@@AnyoneCanSee Couldn't have said it better.
It isn't much of a British expedition without a bit of dysentery if you ask me.
16mm film is better than any HD 4K FullHD or whatever. It’s just unbeatable when it comes to magic natural feel 😍
Boooooomer
Def the dumbest thing I’ve heard in awhile.
35mm maybe.
Have you ever thought about having sex with a 16 mm camera?
Bet you’re fun at parties 😭
Joe Tasker, my mountaineering icon. Thanks for the upload
Absolute legend, from my home city of Hull, we've named a road after him so his exploits will never be forgotten
thanks for this interesting and adventurous story, these were tough and rugged strong men to try this in the winter, west ridge - near straight up vertical climbs with ropes in the snow, ice
and cold, no Sherpa support nor bottled oxygen - really amazing what they tried -compared to what the climbers today are doing - thanks again for sharing
i have had my tent lifted up on ledge one night. you feel your guy lines stretching the pull you back down. it dose get your attention.
this video is one of the best everest documentary.
I have never climbed any mountains and don't ever plan to, but I've been watching a ton of videos on this channel for the last few days! It's amazing what people are capable of when they have the right amount of determination balanced with the right amount of caution to know when to turn back!
Messner no ropes no oxygen, just an ice ax. UNBELIEVABLE. When your father is a climber and you grow up climbing in the Alps, makes a difference.
And perfect hair.
Messner has got to be the greatest climber ever
Hmm I'll just sit here drink some beers and chain smoke I'll never get to 10k elevation and I'm happy with that.😮
He also took drugs (PEDs) in order to do so, by his own admission.
And no pants
enjoyable looking at the old gear we use to use. there where a few good companies but the outdoors markets would really bloom just a few yrs later.
Didn't realize the Burgess brothers were in this, very cool!
this lot were absolutely bonkers!! lol
ill as f*ck, 100mph winds, minus 50, digging snow caves, roping, scaling 1000 foot granite up Everest in winter..absolute madness!!!
"We didn't really stick our necks out as far as danger was concerned"
lol - is that what one of them said! - crazy!@@mikeyforrester6887
Another great expedition that I’ve never seen before!
The musical score was an interesting choice. Rather than an air of excitement it gives a feeling of melancholy and slowness. The result is likely a true reflection of how the men felt fighting the mountain and illness.
I kept thinking I was listening to a weird instrumental rendition of 'Angelo', by Brotherhood of Man
The difficulties of this expedition were all of the physical and altitude challenges presented by the winter season and the technical difficulties. Rouse is often critizesed for lack of leadership. But the real reason that the team could not pull all its skill, experience and strength was because of illness caused by a kitchen at base camp that did not make the water and cooking food bombproof . Giardia meant that half the team were permentely on antibiotics and suffering from intestinal problems.
In following years they all learnt this problem and how to deal with it. How do I know? because I was there.
Wow!! - It's NO GOOD Making False economies & cutting corners/being ILL PREPARED (No pun intended).... :(
No, they have never dealt with the cleanliness problem! 😂🤣
Also love and agree that the snow tunnel is the best way to stay. FANTASTIC VIDEO TY!
Thanks Ryan. Whew!! Scary stuff. Glad you made it.
Their Spirit is matched by their classic British optimism
Thank you for uploading. Enjoying these documentaries
Love these documentaries thank you for posting them all. The Fatal Game is very good one as well.
Never knew this doco existed. Thanks for providing it. There, but for the grace of Mother Goddess, go I.
It’s pretty cool seeing one of these where everyone lived… for now.
Reinhold Messner in one of his interviews said that “exactly 50% of climbers I have ever known died in the mountains”. There are 8 people in titles, and 4 of them died. I wonder if they somehow knew that a half of them will die for sure, would they quit mountaineering..
I don't think so. I'd say each of them would think he'd be among those 4 that survive.
If the mountains killed no brave men, no brave men would climb
No. These people know life is short. They live it. In the end does it really matter how long or short your life is? I think, its may be better to die young and just move on up. Its easier then to watch loved ones go. This is a mind twisting discussion.
I dont think so, high altitude mountaineers know that they probably will die on some mountain.
Now this is climbing Everest. If you don't climb this way, basically you are hiring men to possibly die for a walk to the top of the world.
Well done men, you are my heroes, you and the Sherpa people. The old school is the toughest
Who’s hiring men??
Oh, yeah, climb without oxygen in the winter is the way!! 😂🤣
@@chicagogyrl4846 Im sorry. What's wrong? You didn't like the video or what? I see your comments everywhere here
Nice to see the long approach from Jiri through the stunning Solu Khumbu hill country, which most today miss out on by flying in and out of Lukla
Reminds me of 3 Years later when Tim Snape and Mortimer forged a new route direct up the North Face to Norton Couloir including a decent in the dark all without supO2. Had a similarly capable team but the big difference being a summit in the Autumn
Wet
Wow now that was a powerful analogue telephoto lens..
Are lenses digital now?
Wow!! Seen this before, great work, good fun, hard work, talented team, and not another team or lines of climbers behind them. The real deal. ❤ these beauties ❤
Incredible. Loved this.
❤ j😅 21:55
Many thanks for another inspirer, poor lads , they did their best .
Great documentary here- many thanks
Great documentary, awesome post sir. Amazing times those must have been. Sad to see that some of the men gave up but I think it was for the best because if they would have let the peer pressure coarse them to go for it, I think lives would have been lost. It just wasn't there for that group.
47:27 "It's unfortunate that the mind drives the body, and when the minds given up the body ceases to function well"
Imagine the body driving the mind..
The West Ridge route.....crazy tough, rarely challenged.
I know! And in winter! Balls of steel
@@swayjaayy5495 I have the time and experience, but not the balls to try that.
If these lads said to me, wanna ger fer a walk lad, id say, no you're alright. Amazing.
Good exercise fat lad
Love these old mountaineering films. What has happened to mountains like Everest is really sickening! I watched a sad film about a group of sherpa trying to clean up the mountain. Not just rubbish but human bones from years ago, as they re-emerged from the ice-fall. They have turned one of the most beautiful places on earth into a rubbish tip. Rampant selfishness!!
Wow! The amount of technical climbing is fascinating
Camera man here has gotta be a fantastic climber.. this era even a small camera was like 8#
When was this filmed? I heard things used to be done right before Everest became so commercialized. Nice Doc.
description says winter of 80-81
Love these films - Thank You ❤💚✨☀️✨
I sorry to learn that Joe Tasker died on Everest 2yrs later. He was in his prime in this Xlnt documentary. 16mm is beautiful WOW. What an amazing team & incredible effort. I truly believe that w/the proper support the Burgess brothers & Tasker would've made the summit. Team stretched too thin after the 2 guys bailed. Q: What was the Dr. doing about team health, disentary etc.? Snowcaves are the best!
They had all of the support they needed with their Sherpas!!
3:09 that merge is spectacular!
They don't really issue permits for climbing Mt Everest in the winter for good reason. Only been done 15 times.
These guys are nuts!
Does anyone else feel that the failed expeditions are more interesting?
Excellent content
Joe Tasker died the next year (1982) on Everest, Brian Hall died on Mount Hood in 2006 I believe.
For this expedition I bet they wish they'd made a better plan/appointed a leader. Twin seemed frustrated at the end.
Wrong Brian Hall. He's alive, and has a Twitter
But agree the lack of planning.
In awe....❤
Нашла еще один прекрасный фильм.Спасибо огромное за ваши лучшие фильмы об альпинизме!!Всего вам доброго,наилучшего!!Думаю,найду еще и другие,надеюсь!
If you think this old film is the best, I hope that you find more, too!
This is the first time I've seen someone using the toilet in one of these documentaries.
I've often wondered about that!
There is no toilet there!
14:44 Are smoked oysters still typical fare on Everest expeditions?
integrity, skill, independence, modesty. the way it used to be.
i didn't knew The Beatles climb Everest. Joking aside, great documentary!
The beatles wouldn't last one day in these conditions.
Great doc
Wish there was a documentary of the polish expedition that successfully did the first winter ascent Everest without oxygen and by taking the more difficult South Side route.
South route is more difficult? You joking right? It is the easiest way. And if you mean 1980 expedition, they used O2. Please educate yourself before putting something on web.
GRACIAS!
MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Very enjoyable 🇨🇦
Real mountaineering, indeed.
I spent a couple of months in India and Nepal in 1977 and had frequent problems with dysentery and food poisoning. I'd love to go back, but now at 69, I don't know if I'd survive it.
It's much more "civilised" these days, you'd have a wonderful time! Go! ✨️
15 minutes in and I have no doubt these guys will fail....I will watch the rest.
These men were the titans of climbing. It makes the pioneering of Irvine and Mallory even more immense without all their primitive gear.
These guys were the real deal not like all the bucket list posers paying whatever to say I stood on Everest
anyone else notice there's no lawyers on the team? I know why, it's so cold they would have their hands in their own pocket . . .
This is nutz !. talk about doing it the hard way!. Crazy!
I’ve just read Kingdoms of Experience re Mal Duff’s expedition to the North East Ridge of Everest. This expedition suffered the same deficiency I.e. no proper leadership. You can have a go at Chris Bonington but it was planning, planning, planning. And he’s not the only one.
All the tea in Nepal could not get me up on that rock. These guys were fearless.
Now that was a climb!
respect... 👍
I’d say that’s a bit chilly!
Mày the Lord be with them
They needed more tea and biscuits.
I watch these documentaries mainly because I simply can’t fathom why anyone would want to do the hardest thing ever the hardest way
is there no part 2 of this team, another winter? I liked it
Is the narrator's voice John Hurt???
Can anybody tell me the actual date this documentary was made please
The winter season there ends officially not on 31Jan but on 15Feb. The first successful winter ascent took part on 17Feb 1980 by two Poles (is on 17Feb still winter on Everest? yes it is)
14:06...I saw something moving in high mountains😮
I think John Hurt (English actor) is the narrator?
Last sentence from Tasker is prescient:
"Physically we didn't push ourselves to the limit and I don't think we stuck our necks out as regards danger"
With that attitude, he would likely have come back from Bonington's 82 expedition 🤷♂️
Great to see the Weasley twins getting out there and living life.
Is this route more difficult than the Hornbein route? It looks like it.
Anyone know the title of theme song at 0:38??
Open on computer and Spotify it
This looks like the 1970’s line up of Jethro Tull out on their summer hols…🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
Don't be a kock
It really does.
Is that John Hurt narrating?
"I don't need no oxygen tanks, i only need ma trusty old axe and i ain't waiting 6 month for the 'PERFECT TIMING'"
This period was the ideal almost. It hadn’t yet been marrrd by the mass commercialisation of unprepared climbers and indifferent guides.
Joe Tasker was in a different class, to "ALL" of the other members in this expedition.
Alan Rouse was a very competent rock climber, with a limited knowledge of high altitude mountaineering.
Alex Mclntyre would have been a great addition, to this climbing team, a top class experienced winter climber.
Dr Pete Thexton would die from complications of altitude sickness, when participating in a later expedition.
I love kumbu in the winter. Not many tourists.
"It's more than a pity Pete" Lmfao!
Awesome 🏔 🤍🙏
A significant number of people in this documentary are voiced by Michael Palin’s King of Swamp Castle.
Its hard for me to watch the sherpas barefoot or in sandals doing all that hard work.
I've climbed half dome and Shasta. No oxygen for either. How bad is a trip to Nepal? Come on. Everest? Bring it!
52:13 we are on the verge of WWIII yet he’s saying there’s never been less wars in history?
And yes “there’s never been a better time to be alive” IN THE WEST where we are sheltered & don’t get to see the real struggle. We don’t have to worry about our children starving or being blown into pieces by a bomb or worry whether we will even wake up tomorrow. If “this is the best time to be alive” then why is he only frequenting SAFE western countries? Why not take a stroll through Palestine or Sudan or even Ukraine? THE HYPOCRISY MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL!
Joe Tasker would perish a year later on the NE Ridge...
If he wasn’t there, that wouldn’t of happened!