Talking to one now feels like such a waste of time. You show them the explicit evidence they try to find ways around it. You use reductio arguments they play stupid and or complain that you are being too philosophical. SMH.
@@Repentee The Quran claims that the Jews believe in a multi-personal ontology of God, i.e. a God that has others worshiped alongside Him, in the sense of polytheism. Again, this is evidence that Jews have not all been "unitary monotheists" like Buzzard and others including Islamic apologists like to claim.
@@DavidDent-pm9mo excuse the last reply - in my haste I misread your comment. But I agree, to think that all Jews have been unitarian monotheists is naive at best and I say that given the biblical and archeological evidence. Related to the Quranic claims I'm not sure what you are referring to.
@@Repentee Quran 9: 30 states: The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allāh"; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allāh." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before [them]. May Allāh destroy them; how are they deluded?
Excellent, Anthony ! Second time I've watched it. Just want to help you with the pronunciation of one word: Moses ben Maimon, a.k.a., Maimonides has no gutteral ח (khet) sound in it.
Much love and appreciation our dear brother Anthony Rogers. What a great job. It may take me a year to find and put together such great work but because of your work things become better and easier. God bless.
Thank you brother for your diligent work in the Lord. It would be fantastic if you had this material in some article with references I would love - with your permission - to translate it to Slovakian language so that people over there can be ministered to. Plague of Unitarianism has been encroaching upon the few churches that exist there and Satan has been diligent in decimating the already small flock of God. God bless you.
Did they (Jews during Jesus'time) believe that the Messiah would be a God-Man? If so, why did they falsely charge/accuse Jesus with/of blasphemy? That's what I still don't fully understand.
He didn't appear to be what they expected . A random dude claiming to be God? The title Messiah refers to a king and a deliverer. Jesus was both in a spiritual sense. They perceived Him to be some random dude claiming those to Himself
@@danieljakes5949 iirc, please correct me if I'm wrong because it's been a long time, but didn't Anthony say that they (people during His time) knew something about the Messiah that He would be a God-Man or something? If so, then why are they mad and falsely accuse Him of blasphemy?
@@Pyroverbs205 No, they KNEW that there was Hypostases in the God-Head with the Angel of the Lord as the 2nd Person. However, what they couldn't believe, is that the Person that was standing in front of them, Jesus of Nazareth, the Carpenter whose "mother and father we know?" was THAT Angel of the Lord, and the 2nd Person of the GodHead. So, not that what He was saying was new to them, they just refused to believe that HE was THAT GOD.
@@abbycrown But what I don't understand was that why would they charge Him with blasphemy if they believe that the Messiah would be a God-Man? I understand that they don't accept Jesus to be the Messiah, but they charged Him with blasphemy as though they don't believe the Messiah would be God-Man. And getting mad when He made Himself equal with God. Again, like they don't believe that the Messiah would be God-Man. Why blasphemy? Why not say that He "falsely" claimed to be the Messiah?
Its intersting, i suppose at times of our Lord, even if it was people who believed in such things as described by Anthony, that would not be too much of them, since priests and ordinary people not always could understand when Christ made divine claim. Also i wonder how can we be sure that christian belief is not plagiat of all this previously existed thoughts but revelation?
Althougth i think since Christ came and did what He did, He was fullfillment of that OT teaching, and it is quite reasonable since OT had such teachings, we should anticipate trace of it at later times, before Christ!
@@drummersagainstitk hear me out, in genesis 1:26, plural of majesty is not found in Hebrew for pronouns. And also, the divine council argument cannot work for that verse since God alone created man in His own image and not in the image of both God and angels. The "us" is speaking to the other members in the Godhead.
@@Prosperity-o4y Stay with me. I understand the US! But MOST compelling is The Jews say no. So, rather than try to convince me as a Christian what do you say to the Jews? Tell them! they are mistaken. I BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY as written in the NT, just like you. NO issue.
I have a question...Even if the Jewish believed in plurality, they eventually believed in 2 persons...Why does some Christian want 3? How sure are we it is not 2,3,4, 70,4000? Even if we have seen 3 manifested, how sure are we they are not more?
We have no reason to think that God is more then 3 Persons, as the Bible doesn't say so. The Bible teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are Yahweh, and distinct Persons.
@@jaron5333 To understand, in ancient times, God was only two according to the revelation of the ancient Jewish time... and the new testament revelation makes it 3. So if you were in the ancient Jewish day, you will rightfully claim we have no facts to show it is more than 2. In revelation 4:5, we have 7 spirits of God...Which of them is the holy spirit? Do we have 9 or 10?.... WE CANNOT FIT GOD INTO OUR HUMAN UNDERSTANDING WITHOUT CONTRADICTIONS...THE ONLY TRUTH IS WE HAVE GOD YAHWEH AND HIS SON JESUS...IT IS NOT UP TO US TO KNOW IF THEY ARE THE SAME, EQUAL, OR THE KIND OF RELATION THEY HAVE
@@dieu-donneyouto1044 Jesus tells us in Matthew in what Name we should Baptize it's not 4,5,6,7,8,9,10 it says in the Name singular of the Father Son and the Holy Spirit.
There’s a reason groups like the ebionites existed because god rained supreme in second temple Judaism you can appeal the to hellenists all you want but the fact is is that the traditionalists adhered to strict monotheism and only gave sacrifices to the one true god that Jesus talks about Judaism at this period was comfortable with speculating poetically with personified divine attributes, chiefly Wisdom or the Logos of God, that for Philo existed in the penumbra of the deity as ‘neither created nor uncreated’, and of ‘angels’ and other agents who could receive the divine name and speak and act with his full authority. These latter could include prophets and other human agents, and this belief was not thought to compromise loyalty to the only true God. Evidence exists that Diaspora Jews wore amulets to local deities without feeling they were being disloyal to the strict monotheism of their Jewish faith; animal sacrifice seems to have been a crucial boundary marker Early Jewish-Christians were at home in this world-view and would have viewed Jesus as the definitive eschatological agent of God, exalted to his right hand at his resurrection. No sacrifice was ever offered to Jesus alongside God; Jesus' passion and death were rather viewed as the definitive sacrifice to the common God whom Jews and Christians both worshipped
”“‘“The victor I will make into a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will never leave it again. On him I will inscribe the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my GOD as well as my new name.“ Revelation 3:12 NABRE ”Then the angel of the Lord replied, “Lord of hosts, how long will you be without mercy for Jerusalem and the cities of Judah that have felt your anger these seventy years?”“ Zechariah 1:12 NABRE ”To the angel who spoke with me, the Lord replied favorably, with comforting words. Zechariah 1:13 NABRE ”The angel who spoke with me then said to me, Proclaim: Thus says the Lord of hosts: I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion intensely jealous.“ Zechariah 1:14 NABRE The angel is distinct from god and asks god the question if the angel was Jesus and part of the god head the angel whouldnt have had to ask god the question since that would make him part of god and this verse proves that the angel of the lord is not god but gods representative and in revelation why would jesus write the name of his god on the new temple if he is Yahweh passages like this one is the reason why there was lots of different views on who Jesus was like Origen called Jesus the second god ”When they had departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Rise, take the child and his mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until I tell you. Herod is going to search for the child to destroy him.”“ Matthew 2:13 NABRE The angel of the lord appears to Jesus parents while he is in the womb how can the angel of the lord be pre existent Jesus when he appeared while Jesus was in the mothers womb you attack Judaism yet you do not acknowledge the various views of Jesus in the 2rd and 3rd all the way up to the 5th century ”I will not give vent to my blazing anger, I will not destroy Ephraim again; For I am God and not a man, the Holy One present among you; I will not come in wrath.“ Hosea 11:9 ”No one experiencing temptation should say, “I am being tempted by God”; for God is not subject to temptation to evil, and he himself tempts no one.“ James 1:13 NABRE ”Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.“ Matthew 4:1 NABRE You will of course appeal that the human Jesus was tempted not the divine Jesus but you can’t argue that with with scripture because it doesn’t plainly differentiate between the divine and human Jesus and the trinity states that Jesus was fully human and fully god
Judaism is not being attacked here. It's literally JEWS THEMSELVES admitting that Plurality in the Jewish Godhead has always existed as a major belief even before Christ became incarnate. AND, Scripture does differentiate between Jesus' Human Nature, and His Deity. Romans 1:1-5: Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David ACCORDING TO THE FLESH and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, 6 including you who are called to belong to Jesus Christ, Romans 9:5: To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
There was never an equal being to the god of Israel in the second temple Judaism if anything there was a hierarchy of divine beings who acted as agents of god but never any equal to yahweh almost like a pyramid so in that sense Judaism had changed
The angel/messenger of the Lord called himself YAHWEH and God the Father invited him to create mankind in Genesis 1:26. Jesus is EQUAL to the Father. And you will see the son of man riding on the clouds of heaven with power and GREAT glory.
Just like the nature of the Messiah's work was not fully clear before Jesus came, one could argue that the nature of God wasn't fully revealed in the Old Testament. Just like he told to Moses that Abraham did not know him the way Moses and Israël would in the Exodus. Here's the principle of successive revelation. One could argue that because of the nature of the word " spirit" wich can be ambiguous, it was difficult to distinguishe and understand that when God said things like" I will send my spirit in your midst " he was speaking of a person. However, with the sending of the figure called the Angel of the Lord it was more easy for the ancients to understand that the Lord was speaking of a distinct person, And with the different passages showing that this Messenger is God, just like he himself says it to Jacob; it was possible for the ancients to understand that there was at least two persons, hence comes the doctrine of the two powers. Even if they were not able to understand everything, the fact that in the Old Testament they already had the material to understand the two powers ( Lord and the Angel of the Lord) is sufficient to prove that the monotheism of the unitarians is not the true one of the Bible. Now when the New Testament comes more things about the Messiah are clear or should I say more clear than before. The fact that he had to died by crucifixion and come back a second time to judge for exampleis ine thing. All his work would not be done in the same time. Likewise, more are revealed in the New Testament about the nature of God. The Son who is the word incarnate says that he will *send* the Holy Spirit and that the father will *send* the Spirit in his name. The Spirit will not speak lf himself but will speak only what he hears, just like the Son spoke only what he heard from the Father. He also says that his disciples have to make disciples of all nations and baptise them in the name of the father and of the Son AND of the Holy Spirit ; the fact that he says in the name of Father AND of the Son shows that there is a distinction of persons; likewise the fact that he says AND of the Holy Spirit shows that there is a distinction of person. Conclusion : - the fact that despite the fact that in the Old Testament everything was not as clear and revealed as they are in the New Testament, the jews still could understand the multiplicity of persons ( two powers doctrine) pove that the unitarian notion of monotheism is not in the Bible and it reinforce the understanding of trinitarian that the trinity was more revealed in the New Testament.
@@unitarianapologetics4669 No , I explained how you can understand the multiplicity of persons from the Old Testament, a fact wich alone is sufficient to disprove unitarianism. I did not enter in the explanation of the trinity in the New Testament really.
Judaism in the times of our Lord certainly did not have any idea of divine persons in a Godhead. So what's the point. There is absolutely nothing coherent in any Jewish school that gives us the impression that they had some vague ideas about the divinity of the Messiah let alone a Trinity of divine persons. Whatever may have been considered had absolutely no impact on traditional historic Judaim. Not in the first century nor in the history of subsequent Judaism. To make an argument out of such sketchy evidence is a waste of time.
The word … the Angel of the lord and Jesus Saying he is the word obviously isn’t saying they’re connected ? Why the extra extrapolation ? All of these references are obviously referring to ….. Israel 🫣 come-on guys don’t stretch it
@@truthmatters7573 yes of course .. the same narrative exist Also in the Quran but it still makes me smile and I can actualy here the smile in his voice while he’s reading the other writings acknowledging these simple facts that I used to think were basic milk but learned later after a singer video that was not the case … actualy began a journey back in the Old Testament only to make sure I found Jesus .. quick trip but it does confound many
Huh, if you really read Old Testament. You can see " The Word of the Lord" this is not a voice or revelation. The word is a person since He speaks as God.
![Lord of Spirits - Pantheon and Pandemonium XIV: Asynchronous Q&A December 2024 [Ep. 106]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZXKWteu2n-E/mqdefault.jpg)
Cultists need to see this. All of them.
Talking to one now feels like such a waste of time. You show them the explicit evidence they try to find ways around it. You use reductio arguments they play stupid and or complain that you are being too philosophical. SMH.
@@Repentee The Quran claims that the Jews believe in a multi-personal ontology of God, i.e. a God that has others worshiped alongside Him, in the sense of polytheism. Again, this is evidence that Jews have not all been "unitary monotheists" like Buzzard and others including Islamic apologists like to claim.
@@DavidDent-pm9mo excuse the last reply - in my haste I misread your comment. But I agree, to think that all Jews have been unitarian monotheists is naive at best and I say that given the biblical and archeological evidence.
Related to the Quranic claims I'm not sure what you are referring to.
@@Repentee Quran 9: 30 states: The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allāh"; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allāh." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before [them]. May Allāh destroy them; how are they deluded?
Excellent, Anthony ! Second time I've watched it. Just want to help you with the pronunciation of one word: Moses ben Maimon, a.k.a., Maimonides has no gutteral ח (khet) sound in it.
Pls keep the short videos addressing specific topic coming.
The word avalanche comes to mind. If there were no fire, there would be no smoke. Thank you for putting this together.
Excellent and helpful work, Anthony. Great to have someone to do the heavy lifting for us!
Thanks!
Anthony, good work pulling these quotes together. Thanks.
This is amazing, I was trying to find these sources earlier! This is a great video!
You knocked it out of the park and into orbit! XD Those are some powerful quotations. No wonder someone like Toviah won't debate someone like you.
So so happy to see this. Thank you Anthony!
Hi buddy love you and your teaching on Gods word
Much love and appreciation our dear brother Anthony Rogers. What a great job. It may take me a year to find and put together such great work but because of your work things become better and easier. God bless.
Yeah Jacob Neusner , that boy has been around.
You really dig deep and provide awesome reviews
Todah for all your hard work
Super impressive research
BAM!!!!! TRUTH BOMBS dropped and detonated!
Thank you brother for your diligent work in the Lord. It would be fantastic if you had this material in some article with references I would love - with your permission - to translate it to Slovakian language so that people over there can be ministered to. Plague of Unitarianism has been encroaching upon the few churches that exist there and Satan has been diligent in decimating the already small flock of God.
God bless you.
Any efforts to set up a
Debate with Singer?
Did they (Jews during Jesus'time) believe that the Messiah would be a God-Man? If so, why did they falsely charge/accuse Jesus with/of blasphemy?
That's what I still don't fully understand.
Cause they thought he would stablish the millennium right away
He didn't appear to be what they expected . A random dude claiming to be God? The title Messiah refers to a king and a deliverer. Jesus was both in a spiritual sense. They perceived Him to be some random dude claiming those to Himself
@@danieljakes5949 iirc, please correct me if I'm wrong because it's been a long time, but didn't Anthony say that they (people during His time) knew something about the Messiah that He would be a God-Man or something?
If so, then why are they mad and falsely accuse Him of blasphemy?
@@Pyroverbs205 No, they KNEW that there was Hypostases in the God-Head with the Angel of the Lord as the 2nd Person. However, what they couldn't believe, is that the Person that was standing in front of them, Jesus of Nazareth, the Carpenter whose "mother and father we know?" was THAT Angel of the Lord, and the 2nd Person of the GodHead.
So, not that what He was saying was new to them, they just refused to believe that HE was THAT GOD.
@@abbycrown But what I don't understand was that why would they charge Him with blasphemy if they believe that the Messiah would be a God-Man?
I understand that they don't accept Jesus to be the Messiah, but they charged Him with blasphemy as though they don't believe the Messiah would be God-Man.
And getting mad when He made Himself equal with God. Again, like they don't believe that the Messiah would be God-Man.
Why blasphemy? Why not say that He "falsely" claimed to be the Messiah?
✝️
hey is there a way to contact Anthony rogers, I would like him to be on my channel
Try adding him on Facebook
Amen
Its intersting, i suppose at times of our Lord, even if it was people who believed in such things as described by Anthony, that would not be too much of them, since priests and ordinary people not always could understand when Christ made divine claim. Also i wonder how can we be sure that christian belief is not plagiat of all this previously existed thoughts but revelation?
Althougth i think since Christ came and did what He did, He was fullfillment of that OT teaching, and it is quite reasonable since OT had such teachings, we should anticipate trace of it at later times, before Christ!
It isn't an old canard. Is IS a straw argument and it's irrelevant. What is the point of this video?
The point of the video is to REPENT of your false Jesus and False Gospel and embrace the Trinune God of the Old and New testament.
@@Prosperity-o4y That is your opinion. Opinions aren't refutations. Grow up. False Gospel my ass.
@@drummersagainstitk hear me out, in genesis 1:26, plural of majesty is not found in Hebrew for pronouns. And also, the divine council argument cannot work for that verse since God alone created man in His own image and not in the image of both God and angels. The "us" is speaking to the other members in the Godhead.
@@Prosperity-o4y Stay with me. I understand the US! But MOST compelling is The Jews say no. So, rather than try to convince me as a Christian what do you say to the Jews? Tell them! they are mistaken. I BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY as written in the NT, just like you. NO issue.
I have a question...Even if the Jewish believed in plurality, they eventually believed in 2 persons...Why does some Christian want 3? How sure are we it is not 2,3,4, 70,4000?
Even if we have seen 3 manifested, how sure are we they are not more?
We have no reason to think that God is more then 3 Persons, as the Bible doesn't say so. The Bible teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are Yahweh, and distinct Persons.
@@jaron5333 To understand, in ancient times, God was only two according to the revelation of the ancient Jewish time... and the new testament revelation makes it 3. So if you were in the ancient Jewish day, you will rightfully claim we have no facts to show it is more than 2. In revelation 4:5, we have 7 spirits of God...Which of them is the holy spirit? Do we have 9 or 10?.... WE CANNOT FIT GOD INTO OUR HUMAN UNDERSTANDING WITHOUT CONTRADICTIONS...THE ONLY TRUTH IS WE HAVE GOD YAHWEH AND HIS SON JESUS...IT IS NOT UP TO US TO KNOW IF THEY ARE THE SAME, EQUAL, OR THE KIND OF RELATION THEY HAVE
@@dieu-donneyouto1044 Jesus tells us in Matthew in what Name we should Baptize it's not 4,5,6,7,8,9,10 it says in the Name singular of the Father Son and the Holy Spirit.
@@dieu-donneyouto1044 Some Jews saw the 3rd person. But still doesn't matter
How many men were collectively referred to as Yahweh at the Oaks of Mamre?
There’s a reason groups like the ebionites existed because god rained supreme in second temple Judaism you can appeal the to hellenists all you want but the fact is is that the traditionalists adhered to strict monotheism and only gave sacrifices to the one true god that Jesus talks about Judaism at this period was comfortable with speculating poetically with personified divine attributes, chiefly Wisdom or the Logos of God, that for Philo existed in the penumbra of the deity as ‘neither created nor uncreated’, and of ‘angels’ and other agents who could receive the divine name and speak and act with his full authority. These latter could include prophets and other human agents, and this belief was not thought to compromise loyalty to the only true God. Evidence exists that Diaspora Jews wore amulets to local deities without feeling they were being disloyal to the strict monotheism of their Jewish faith; animal sacrifice seems to have been a crucial boundary marker Early Jewish-Christians were at home in this world-view and would have viewed Jesus as the definitive eschatological agent of God, exalted to his right hand at his resurrection. No sacrifice was ever offered to Jesus alongside God; Jesus' passion and death were rather viewed as the definitive sacrifice to the common God whom Jews and Christians both worshipped
”“‘“The victor I will make into a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will never leave it again. On him I will inscribe the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my GOD as well as my new name.“
Revelation 3:12 NABRE
”Then the angel of the Lord replied, “Lord of hosts, how long will you be without mercy for Jerusalem and the cities of Judah that have felt your anger these seventy years?”“
Zechariah 1:12 NABRE
”To the angel who spoke with me, the Lord replied favorably, with comforting words.
Zechariah 1:13 NABRE
”The angel who spoke with me then said to me, Proclaim: Thus says the Lord of hosts: I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion intensely jealous.“
Zechariah 1:14 NABRE
The angel is distinct from god and asks god the question if the angel was Jesus and part of the god head the angel whouldnt have had to ask god the question since that would make him part of god and this verse proves that the angel of the lord is not god but gods representative and in revelation why would jesus write the name of his god on the new temple if he is Yahweh passages like this one is the reason why there was lots of different views on who Jesus was like Origen called Jesus the second god
”When they had departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Rise, take the child and his mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until I tell you. Herod is going to search for the child to destroy him.”“
Matthew 2:13 NABRE
The angel of the lord appears to Jesus parents while he is in the womb how can the angel of the lord be pre existent Jesus when he appeared while Jesus was in the mothers womb you attack Judaism yet you do not acknowledge the various views of Jesus in the 2rd and 3rd all the way up to the 5th century
”I will not give vent to my blazing anger, I will not destroy Ephraim again; For I am God and not a man, the Holy One present among you; I will not come in wrath.“
Hosea 11:9
”No one experiencing temptation should say, “I am being tempted by God”; for God is not subject to temptation to evil, and he himself tempts no one.“
James 1:13 NABRE
”Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.“
Matthew 4:1 NABRE
You will of course appeal that the human Jesus was tempted not the divine Jesus but you can’t argue that with with scripture because it doesn’t plainly differentiate between the divine and human Jesus and the trinity states that Jesus was fully human and fully god
Judaism is not being attacked here. It's literally JEWS THEMSELVES admitting that Plurality in the Jewish Godhead has always existed as a major belief even before Christ became incarnate.
AND, Scripture does differentiate between Jesus' Human Nature, and His Deity.
Romans 1:1-5: Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David ACCORDING TO THE FLESH and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, 6 including you who are called to belong to Jesus Christ,
Romans 9:5: To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
There was never an equal being to the god of Israel in the second temple Judaism if anything there was a hierarchy of divine beings who acted as agents of god but never any equal to yahweh almost like a pyramid so in that sense Judaism had changed
The angel/messenger of the Lord called himself YAHWEH and God the Father invited him to create mankind in Genesis 1:26. Jesus is EQUAL to the Father. And you will see the son of man riding on the clouds of heaven with power and GREAT glory.
Lol. None of these things teach that God is 3 persons. Nice red herring there. 🥴
Just like the nature of the Messiah's work was not fully clear before Jesus came, one could argue that the nature of God wasn't fully revealed in the Old Testament. Just like he told to Moses that Abraham did not know him the way Moses and Israël would in the Exodus. Here's the principle of successive revelation.
One could argue that because of the nature of the word " spirit" wich can be ambiguous, it was difficult to distinguishe and understand that when God said things like" I will send my spirit in your midst " he was speaking of a person.
However, with the sending of the figure called the Angel of the Lord it was more easy for the ancients to understand that the Lord was speaking of a distinct person, And with the different passages showing that this Messenger is God, just like he himself says it to Jacob; it was possible for the ancients to understand that there was at least two persons, hence comes the doctrine of the two powers. Even if they were not able to understand everything, the fact that in the Old Testament they already had the material to understand the two powers ( Lord and the Angel of the Lord) is sufficient to prove that the monotheism of the unitarians is not the true one of the Bible.
Now when the New Testament comes more things about the Messiah are clear or should I say more clear than before. The fact that he had to died by crucifixion and come back a second time to judge for exampleis ine thing. All his work would not be done in the same time. Likewise, more are revealed in the New Testament about the nature of God.
The Son who is the word incarnate says that he will *send* the Holy Spirit and that the father will *send* the Spirit in his name. The Spirit will not speak lf himself but will speak only what he hears, just like the Son spoke only what he heard from the Father.
He also says that his disciples have to make disciples of all nations and baptise them in the name of the father and of the Son AND of the Holy Spirit ;
the fact that he says in the name of Father AND of the Son shows that there is a distinction of persons; likewise the fact that he says AND of the Holy Spirit shows that there is a distinction of person.
Conclusion :
- the fact that despite the fact that in the Old Testament everything was not as clear and revealed as they are in the New Testament, the jews still could understand the multiplicity of persons ( two powers doctrine)
pove that the unitarian notion of monotheism is not in the Bible and it reinforce the understanding of trinitarian that the trinity was more revealed in the New Testament.
@dodleymortune4312 Things being unclear is not a license to eisegetically impose interpretations on texts. Sorry you wrote all that to say nothing.
@@unitarianapologetics4669
No , I explained how you can understand the multiplicity of persons from the Old Testament, a fact wich alone is sufficient to disprove unitarianism.
I did not enter in the explanation of the trinity in the New Testament really.
@dodleymortune4312 Oh, well, there you have it. Case closes LOL. 🤡
@dodleymortune4312 Now go pay your daddy his superchat money.
Judaism in the times of our Lord certainly did not have any idea of divine persons in a Godhead. So what's the point. There is absolutely nothing coherent in any Jewish school that gives us the impression that they had some vague ideas about the divinity of the Messiah let alone a Trinity of divine persons. Whatever may have been considered had absolutely no impact on traditional historic Judaim. Not in the first century nor in the history of subsequent Judaism. To make an argument out of such sketchy evidence is a waste of time.
You should watch the above video before making ill-informed comments which the video actually refutes quite powerfully.
The word … the Angel of the lord and Jesus Saying he is the word obviously isn’t saying they’re connected ? Why the extra extrapolation ? All of these references are obviously referring to ….. Israel 🫣 come-on guys don’t stretch it
I'm assuming this is satire/irony?
@@truthmatters7573 yes of course .. the same narrative exist Also in the Quran but it still makes me smile and I can actualy here the smile in his voice while he’s reading the other writings acknowledging these simple facts that I used to think were basic milk but learned later after a singer video that was not the case … actualy began a journey back in the Old Testament only to make sure I found Jesus .. quick trip but it does confound many
@@Mellownius Tovia singer is scared to debate learned Chrisitians.
Huh, if you really read Old Testament. You can see " The Word of the Lord" this is not a voice or revelation. The word is a person since He speaks as God.
@@openmindedchristian yes of course ?