It would kind of be like a Hellenist saying “I don’t believe in heaven! I believe in Elysium!” It’s an after-life paradise, right? Might just as well call it heaven. It’s not a specific place we’re referring to, but the basic idea.
It’s called the spirit prison and they are there until the resurrection then they’re judged then they receive a kingdom of glory in one it the telestral world.
Exmormon & exchristian here, i was taught this as well! But now i know much better. This is all based off of fear 100%, power & control. They try to instill fear so that once thats inside you & has a good grip, they then have the power to tell you whatever they want you to believe! It's your choice to use your own head... or not! Thank you, Lexi. Nicely done!
Escaped Hell eight years ago!! So many conversations with people who are still active members and one thing is clear… Everyone believes something different while claiming to believe in the same doctrine! A hell of a lot of contradictions in Mormonism.
Yeeeeesss!!! This is my conclusion. This is all “Christianity” and possibly all religion. There is an illusion of agreement, sameness, hemomgeny. When really everyone has their own ideas and beliefs and understandings (every single human being) and as long as they are “towing the line” other followers will just acquiesce and endorse even if they don’t actually agree or are confused; it’s a vague collective resolution of cognitive dissonance- dismiss the fact there can’t actually be a cohesive complex belief system that everyone adheres to. This is one of the things that broke me. Being told vastly different things and taught different interpretations of The Bible from people who supposedly all have the same one Truth.
@@Coastal1931 I am a Never-Mo from a historically Mormon family, and read the BoM. Within the first 5 pages, I was thinking ‘this is bad Bible fanfic’.
@Shaman196 Yep, their all loving sky daddy tells them that salvation is free, and yet terms and conditions apply ... their all loving and powerful sky daddy has no problem burning its own children forever because they won't kiss its ass
LDS scripture includes outer darkness. This "place" was thrown in my face as a way to threaten me with eternal damnation because I turned against "the truth." I was in a Bishopric and studied LDS teachings voraciously. Outer darkness isn't considered hell as a doctrinal loophole. I did have a Stake President tell me that my family would visit me in the Telestial kingdom if they wanted to. Lol. Hell isn't a thing unless you believe in it.
@@Coastal1931 I have bro. Several times. And I've grew up going to all the symposiums at BYU, and graduated from there, and never missed a Sunday service even when I was traveling. You're awfully judgemental for someone who knows nothing about me and claims to have the spirit of Christ with them 😂 try not to become a Jodi, or Tim, or Chad, or Lori, of Julie, or Ruby with your zealousness.
@@Coastal1931 I'm not struggling. I'm happily out. It's all built on lies and I hope for your time, money, and energy you find your way out soon. Good luck.
As an ex Mormon growing up in the church in the 1970s, I found that the phrase "Outer Darkness" was seldom mentioned from the pulpit, but often "whispered" among the congregation in private conversations, especially among us teens. Wow, I just had seminary trauma flashbacks!
In seminary I was told that the telestial kingdom was the closest analogue to hell, and that outer darkness was where Satan was, and where people who had "seen the face of God and turned away" would go, and was outright told that you could count the people going there on two hands. Now that I'm out I don't care if hell is real or if I'm going there, I'm just trying to do the best I can here and be who I am.
Somehow I understood it as the Telestial Kingdom was like a form of hell because that's where all the murderers, liars, etc go, and that Outer Darkness was a "super hell" for people who literally saw angels/god/jesus and then went against them. Also the whole "hell is a burning lake of fire" I was told was symbolic for extreme mental anguish and unending guilt of sins unrepented of. Not a particularly great thing to hear if you suffer from unnecessary and excessive guilt. 🙃
The telestrial kingdom is not hell but people go there after spending time in the spirit prison, but it is damnation because they cannot progress any further then that world unlike those who make it to the celestial kingdom who go on progressing forever and eventually have spirit children of their own.
My Dad's father, who dug a life for his family out of the dirt, even achieved a respectable level of prosperity... Well, he knew I had abandoned the church and cornered me one day, seriously CORNERED me just to tell me I was going to Hell, to burn in torment forever. My Mother's father, who was Mormon only for the love of my Grandmother once said to me, "just be good to people, respect our earth and the animals we rely on. And remember to let those you love that you Love them." Guess which Grandfather I respected, and who I rejected...
I was always taught that "hell" was a temporary place where the spirits of the unbaptized/unrepentant went - also known as "spirit prison". After the second coming/exaltation of the earth, all spirits would be released from spirit prison and assigned to their permanent levels of "glory", telestial, terrestrial, and celestial. It's all bonkers, of course.
Well it’s better than what the other churches teach being stuck in Hell for evermore but what would be the point in being in Hell forever?? If it’s a punishment, punishments must come to an end! Hell is a partial judgment where they pay for their own sins after that they are judged in what good they did and after being washed clean they receive a kingdom of glory that reflects that judgment, or in other words they go a telestial kingdom with various degrees of glory and just like the stars some are brighter then others. Worlds without end.
Before this video I would've said that Mormons don't believe in Hell and that David's song was metaphorical. But now, after all the points and quotes you shared, I agree with you.
I'm not a Morman but I have enjoyed your videos. Thanks for doing them. I did hear David's song and it is indeed heart warming to know that his Mom is with him for the long haul and loves him unconditionally. We all need that really.
Hell Together is a lovely song. As an agnostic who grew up in Utah, I interpreted David's Hell as the loss of his faith community and family. Forcing a mother to choose between her family and a church who believes in eternal family is sad.
Outer darkness is the space AFTER final judgment day When you die you go to Paradise or Spirit Prison and have the opportunity to learn and accept the gospel there - This is why they do baptism for the dead - so spirits who accept will have had their earthly ordinances done. The thief on the cross didn’t go to “heaven” he went to paradise. Hope this helps
Just because they don’t call it Hell doesn’t mean they don’t believe in it. Outer Darkness and Telestial kingdom are where those who don’t live righteously or worthily enough are sent. Tiers of glory and tiers of hell….
I'm surprised people are saying "Mormons don't believe in hell" when as you pointed out it's mentioned in the Book of Mormon numerous times, because that's the first I've ever heard the claim that they didn't, esp as someone who was convinced I wouldn't be making it to the Celestial Kingdom (even as a faithful Mormon) and hoping at the very least making it to the Terrestrial than being in with the "bad people".
Same. I was talking with a coworker last week who only left the church a year ago, and hasn't done any deconstructing. And he mentioned that Mormons don't believe in hell, and I had to do a double take like "were we part of the same religion?" but he continued, saying there's outer darkness. But it was the first time I ever heard that. I always thought that hell was used interchangeably with outer darkness
As an ex-Mormon who’s spent considerable time letting go of conditioning and belief, I’ve seen clearly that hell is nothing more than misperception in the here and now that leads to suffering…what we call hell. Thus, hell as is generally conceived is NOT Real, and no one could ever go ‘there’ when all we ever are is here….Now!
I grew up in Kansas and was taught we didn't believe in hell regardless of the BoM 🤷. I also had the impression that outer darkness was only for those who had their "calling and election made sure" who left the church and spoke against it. I understood it to be the smallest number of people - not ex Mormon people, but like apostles who not only left the church but did evil against it. That was my understanding at least.
I was born into the church in 1972 and continued to attend regularly until I was eighteen and then sporadically for stints throughout adulthood until I was about 40. What you are saying is basically what I was taught growing up and don't remember being taught anything different in my sporadic returns, though I can't remember it ever coming up per se in the years I attended following my forced attendance as a youth. I was born, raised, and live in Southern California, though my mom and many of my relatives have roots in Utah ... so not sure if it's a time period or location thing or what. You'd think if it's the true word of God, teachings would be consistent at all times and places.
9:20: That was what I was taught about Mormon hell. You had to literally know god - like for a fact - and deny him. The only person I was taught was in hell (that we knew of, because there might be others, I want to make that clear) was Cain. Even someone like Hitler was just in the Telestial Kingdom. Which is still basically paradise, according to Joseph Smith. I was also taught that your "hell" in those lower kingdoms was "knowing" that you COULD have had more glory. Also, I had a priesthood teacher literally say the following phrase: "If you want to keep your penis, you need to go to the Celestial Kingdom" Apparently you lose your genitals in other kingdoms.
We just had this conversation in my house. I'm exmo and both my fiance and roommate are nevermo. They love to ask me questions about Mormon (sorry, LDS) beliefs or teachings and the 3 degrees of heaven was just way too much for them. They're like, wait, what? How is one better than the other? Then the whole outer darkness thing comes up and they're giving eavh other the raised eyebrow looking at me like, 'she's making it up, no way that is true.' 😂 I was in the church in the 80's, 90's and early-mid 00's and holy crap! The things that have changed! My scriptures are definitely different than the new versions my nieces and nephews have
Outter Darkness, post Judgement, is definitely presented as Hell. I kind of half liked the idea (leave me alone in peace forever 😅), but one of my close exmo friends was absolutely terrified of it because we were taught that it was like just floating alone in an infinite void. Also, yes, there are tons of references to Hell. I think most mormons think that it's where only Satan and his bodiless minions go; whereas, the majority of sinners will at least somewhat accept Jesus in spirit prison (pre-Judgement) and thereby go at worst to the Telestial Kingdom. Interestingly, in some first century and gnostic Christian groups, the creator God of the old Testament Elohim or Yaldabaoth [see the Secret Gospel of John (Apopcryphon of John) for an overly detailed description] , was actually evil or ignorant enough to be considered evil. He created this material universe where we suffer, draining his mother's power to keep humans (who stem from the highest genderless divine) trapped in said material universe. In other words, to them Mormons would basically have been Satanists who, united with Elohim intend to live in material realms forever. They thought, Jesus was imbued with God's mom's nature when he was baptised and basically stood for the opposite of the LDS church.
Sort of -- Mormons don't believe in the standard conception of Hell that Christians do. There is the concept of Outer Darkness, and I'm not the only ex-Mormon who was told spirit prison was like the Christian conception of Hell, but I personally never bought this.
Hi! Speaking of David Archuleta, I miss your theme song… Second, concerning hell. This video has been informative! I left the church just over 10 years ago, when I was in my mid ’40’s. I did believe outer darkness and “spirit prison” (the “hell” before final judgement) were hell. So I, as a Mormon, believed in hell. I also believed the lower “degrees of heaven” were a form of hell because after judgment you would be fully aware of the “exaltation” that you gave up by being in a “lower heaven (terrestrial and telestial)”. Though both were still “glory” and better that here on earth, still a form of hell because you could have had better. So… Hell Ya!! My personal family still doesn’t believe I’m going to “outer darkness” hell though. Because to go there you need to be a son of perdition. Meaning you need a second anointing, or to have personally known Jesus and still deny him, or to have murdered the innocent (children under 8). So I’m clear there by that definition. Guess I’m going Telestial.
As an Ex-Mo former convert I heard many times in classes and from church members giving talks that the burning and fire are not literal, but it’s more like a burning in one’s conscience. I totally disagree with that because that’s not what the Bible describes. Most of Mormon doctrine that contradicts the Bible comes from the D & C. This is just one of many false doctrines which is why I went back to the Bible exclusively and a key reason why I left the “church”.
I was raised LDS, I went on my mission to Michigan at age 19. I had always believed that hell was outer darkness. But hell was more up to personal interpretation, Growing up in the church, hell was never really taught as an important concept, in other words the church never Bible thumped a fear of hell into. Me. Now as a post Mormon I consider the whole concept of a hell to be stupid and repugnant.
Joeseph Smith the founder of Mormonism laid the framework for the new denomination. He decided what the word of the Mormon God would be by writing the Book of Mormon, a rewrite of the Bible.
I am ex Mormon. I considered hell and outer darkness as being the same. When I was close to 30 years of age I found the book Meditation For Dummies. I started doing mantra meditation 45 minutes 5 days a week for 18 months. After doing this my thoughts were so much calmer and happier that it was like being in heaven and my thoughts prior to this were like being in hell. I can't even describe how much happier I am after discovering mantra meditation. The Mormon faith doesn't teach mantra meditation and I wish I had found this kind of meditation when I was younger. I ended up leaving the Mormon faith because I was tired of the Mormon faith teaching that my feelings like anger, fear, jealousy, etc. are evil. The Meditation For Dummies book taught that feelings aren't evil and it is best to practice feeling feelings until they release or dissipate.
As an exmormon, I think that while they believe in Hell they have different qualifications. Unless you are the worst of the worst you get glory, which most christians do not believe, so I think mormons just really think that such a small population will go to hell that it doesn’t even register. Plus with the phrases of “outer darkness” and “spirit prison” we never really use the word Hell.
I would like you to do a video on priesthood (prophet, bishop, etc.) qualifications as it seems there are too many bishops whi are not "standard Christian seminary" qualified in addition to having the appropriate psychology training to help folks avoid these awful exmo stories and learn the truth about this cult and it's B.I.T.E. tactics. Kudos to you for exposing the real truth. I used to consider joining but glad I did not. Rejected almost all denoms, including Catholicism. I found eastern greek orthodoxy and baptist to be the closest to that of the 12 disciples teachings and Jesus.
I always thought hell was "spirit prison", like that 1,000 years you have to do penance in or get preached to? Then that becomes hell after the final judgement, aka outer darkness.
I was a convert, and while I was still iiiiiiiiiiiiin the church, I wasn't aware of this traditional lake of fire/eternal torture aspect of outer darkness. But knowing now the list of all included there it really seems everyone falls into EITHER celestial kingdom or outer darkness/hell. I reallllllllly cannot wrap my mind around any "good" God torturing anyone for any length of time. There's nothing good about that. Even humans realize torture is evil. And after seeing Aaron Bushnell's excruciating death, I've been hyper-fixated the idea of how anyone can love/worship any being who employs something as excruciating as burning alive, and not just for less than a minute (as it was for Aaron until he passed out), but for 1000 yeeeeears or all eternity.
There is an esoteric term called the outer circle of humanity. It can be pretty dark when a lot of them are running on about 3 to 5 percent of their brain so ya some can be pretty "dark". Even those of us who try can be dim bulbs sometimes!
I've been coming across several mainstream Christians lately who reject the entire Old Testament and everything except the warm/fuzzy parts of the New Testament (which are very few, honestly). I don't know how they rationalize that. The Bible is full of violence and threats.
If young members of the church think that the church teaches that there is no hell, then the church is in way worse shape than I thought. Like they aren’t even effetively teaching the membership the plan of salvation? They should bring back the third hour or make not studying the scriptures something you must confess to your bishop about.
As a devote Mormon in my younger days Hell was outer darkness. I equated it to any type of Christain definition of hell. It was just another way of saying it in my opinion. I remember always being taught at church that the people going to hell are the ones who knew the truth and rejected it. So gays, killers, thief's, pedos weren't going to hell but would only achieve the lowest celestial glory.
Exmo here. I straight up don’t remember ever being taught, in Sunday school or seminary, that there was any fire and brimstone in any part of the Plan of Happiness. In fact, I think in one of my seminary classes, my teacher actively taught the opposite; that Outer Darkness was just a complete separation from God, which in itself is the worst torment imaginable, no fire or brimstone necessary. That being said, I am a few years younger than you, and I mentally left the church while I was still young enough that my mom could force me to go to church and seminary, and there were a number of times that I was skeptical enough to notice my teachers sprinkling in some preemptive apologetics (I’m specifically thinking of a time that my teacher brought up Joseph Smith’s underage wives and claimed that the girls’ fathers had begged him to marry their daughters so that they could be part of his family. I know. Ew.) so maybe they were trying to soften it to make it sound more palatable, or maybe they were trying to distinguish the Mormon church from everybody else. I don’t know the official reason for it, but I know that this is the first I’m hearing that the traditional view of hell actually is part of Mormon doctrine
I don't believe in "heaven" or "hell." I believe there's a kind of greater consciousness that we go into, and then we're reborn from that. It's a bit quirky and not entirely solidified in my mind, but that's as near as I can describe it. 😊♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️
Look up David Bohm quantum physicist and read about his scientific theory on the Material Universe and the Energy Universe. He theorized that the Energy Universe is indeed Sentient. You might be interested in that 😊
In the Telestial, you are allowed to drink ice tea all day cause of the heat in your vicinity. But no sugar or Splenda available for a sweetener. What do you expect in the lower kingdom. You can't enjoy nice things. 😊
I am an EX Mormon from Autria ... Couldn`t stay any longer last year after 63 years. For me personally I think hell will be learning everything about missed opportunities to help others, seeing the results of our actions in life, learning how much we hurt others, learning how much good things we could have achieved ... learing the results of our lifes to others and to the planet / to life in general ... everything bad we did including the consequences to others ... when people became bad or criminals because of actions we have done to them and even take the responsibility for THEIR lifes too .... THAT WILL BE HELL
I studied with missionaries but didn’t get past the lesson on tithing cuz I’m poor😅 I was told that the three kingdoms were not hell but the best level of glory that they can understand. So even shitty people were given a sort of purgatory but not hell. But of course I was probably not told a lot that might turn me off when I was being love bombed
I have understood it as you did. It seems more like Catholic limbo. Some will be there longer than others. But all will suffer for sins that have gone unrepentant. But honestly, it sounds better than eternal polygamy.
So hell is basically a hot burning lake of fire or whatever. Then Jesus comes back. Then Satan stops paying the heating bill and hell becomes all dark and cold or whatever. As someone who likes the cold, doesn't mind the dark, and doesn't like being with tons of people - yeah outer darkness sounds pretty sweet.
When I was Mormon I believed in hell in 3 senses: 1. Outer darkness, 2. Spirit prison, and 3. Being separated from god. So in that third sense I would’ve considered anything other than the celestial kingdom a form of hell and damnation bc you could no longer progress. But I didn’t believe in a fire and brimstone torture hell. I thought that was a metaphor for the emotional pain they would have from their own guilt, not anything physical
To make this easy, there is a verse in the book of Mormon that answers it "Woe unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell!" If anyone says mormons dont believe in hell, including Mormons, just recite that scrupture.
Ex-mormon I always thought Mormon hell was different from hell in any other Christian groups. That outer darkness was different from hell but it wasn't really spoken about
There was always 2 hells. Lowest heaven was full of unrepentant murders and everyone had their genitals cut off. And then super max hell aka outer darkness was the special bad hell for all those poor damned souls born to mormon parents and given the choice between being mormon or outer darkness with satan. If that's not hell then what the hell is it?
Wait, I'm sorry - is that really how the Book of Mormon is written?? "Whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever?" "For he delivereth his saints?" Why does it sound like a high schooler writing a parody of Shakespeare? 😂
I even have heard about people saying the more and worse the sins the greater Jesus´s atonement is .... because in the end everybody will end up in heaven. For me that`s just insane
Okay, this is fascinating. You have proven to me that Mormons do officially believe in hell. But I grew up attending LDS church from infancy all the way through my teens, and I've actually told people that Mormons don't believe in hell because that's what my young women leaders taught me. I remember this really distinctly. "We don't believe in hell. There's outer darkness, but that's only for apostates." Outer darkness was described as a place with "weeping and gnashing of teeth." Nobody talked about fire. That exactly phrase - "weeping and gnashing of teeth" - was repeated so often that we all could and did recite it anytime the subject came up. When we discussed spirit prison, there was no indication that it was a particularly bad place. I imagined it as boring, maybe, like a linoleum waiting room with no windows and you were never allowed to leave, and then there would be missionaries standing around preaching, and if you accepted what they said then you got beamed out right away...unless nobody had done your temple rituals, in which case you were stuck standing around until somebody did, so we all better get on that, right? I wasn't a believer as a child and never accepted any of this as being true, but that was my understanding of the doctrine. Apparently we weren't getting exactly the right story. (In case anyone's curious, we were in Texas, and this would've been in the late '90s.)
A lot of Mormon doctrine is an improvement on standard Christianity, it is more logically consistent and it explains the problem of evil and the problem of infinite punishment… but it’s also documented to be entirely false and invented as a con so it’s a interesting study in how religions are created by men.
The way it is taught, anything less than the Celestial Kingdom is basically Hell. Let me explain: In the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom, a man and wife can progress eternally, having spirit chuldren, making worlds, etc. In no other kingdom is such progression possible, even tho some of those kindgoms are pleasant. If one is not progressing, they are literally damned, or "stopped up". So damned is a state of inability to progress. Being damned is also a synonym for going to Hell. Ergo....anything less than the celestial kingdom is basically Hell per mormon doctrine.
Yeah but even the celestial kingdom would be a milder form of hell for those who hate the idea of polygamy or being relegated to their assigned role as pretty much just a mother.
Hey I'm that ex-Mormon guy from Tiktok that you dropped a mention to come here to this video. To clarify, I'm one of those who believed that outer darkness is hell, just that not many people on earth would go there. I did have some comments on this video. You mentioned 2 Nephi, but I feel these verses are quite specific that the devil and his angels, as in, those who followed Satan's plan in the pre-existence are going to hell or outer darkness. I don't think that those verses apply to people on earth. I don't want to touch to much on Mormon Doctrine. Though, it is mentioned that the sons of perdition will go to outer darkness rather than a kingdom of heaven. In the church the term having a "perfect knowledge" of God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost and turning away makes you a son of perdition. Very few people have this perfect knowledge. Even Bruce R. McConkie only mentions Cain and Satan himself as receiving the title "Perdition." I would argue that Judas meets this standard, and by Mormon standards only apostles and prophets are capable of this perfect knowledge to turn away from. On the church's website you read that the sons of perdition are "thoses who have denied the son after the father has revealed him." This goes back to that term perfect knowledge. God has to have revealed his son to you and you still turn away. I would say that this isn't a simple Mormon Testimony moment or experience, but rather having something more tangible like seeing Jesus or hearing his actual voice. All of this being said I don't think you, I or other ex-Mormons, atheists or agnostics are going to outer darkness permanently and that very few people are.
The confusion is hidden in words that mean concepts. I always understood (I'm a 52 yr Italian Mormon). The hell mentioned in the BoM correspond to the traditional christian hell (fire and pain). JS taught that that hell does not exist. Instead he taught that the WICKED persons (not unbelivers or exmo), those who willingly harm others, will find themselves "in darkness" after death. After the resurrection there will be no hell. The Sons of Perdition (only the MOST WICKED, who do not repent even in front of Jesus) "will return to their place" that is, they do not keep their resurrected body and regress to the previous state of existance. So I would say: Mormons do not believe in traditional hell.
There's also this passage in the infamous D&C 132 (Ol' Joe's statement on plural marriage) , verse 26: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God." Did that just say that someone with a resurrected body will have his body destroyed and then be handed over to Stan? Maybe someone can clear that up for me?
Read it as “but first they shall be destroyed in the flesh…” Meaning that when they die they will go to hell and be punished UNTIL they are resurrected.
I understood that officially outer darkness was hell, but it could also be understood as anywhere we are spiritually dead (outside of Heavenly Father’s presence), so hell would be anything beneath the celestial kingdom. We would live apart from God, no eternal progression, and with the knowledge forever that we could have been with him and that is hell. Also spirit prison is a type of hell. So yes. There is Mormon hell, in multiple senses.
Ex-mo here. I was always taught that Mormons DON'T believe in hell. Purgatory/spirit prison might SOUND like hell, but it isn't so don't call it that because hell is a bad word. Outer Darkness is also NOT hell, but it is worse than hell so don't become an apostate. I can't make this trash up. 😒
I'm ex-mormon, my mother believes that hell is an actual place, and outer darkness is for apostates. My dad says that non-mormons will go to hell and angels will become missionaries to administer the gospel to those that had never heard the doctrine and they will have the chance to be baptized and go to heaven.
Sheol is a place of rest. Though some see it as gloomy and dark, it is supposed to be a place of quiet. A place to "Rest In Peace." It is the spiritual equivilent of the Grave. From what I can see, the grave is where the body (guph) lay, rest, and returns to the earth, consumed by nature. Similarly the unused persona, (nephesh) goes to Sheol to rest, to be consumed and returned to nature. It is the Living Part, the Ruach the true Spirit of a person which will reincarnate and eventually experience the World to Come. Though that might mean a stint in Gehennah. Though thought of as "Hell" to Christians, Gehennah is more of a reform prison. It is temporary, as all sins are forgiven on Rosh Hashannah (which is why the prayers of atonement include even dead relatives). I suppose one could technically be stuck there forever if nobody prays on your behalf? But the prayers of attonement tend to be communal. Everyone admits to everything so nobody is singled out. Anyway, Gehennah is temporary. Sheol is just the rest and death of the unused Nephesh after the Spirit has withdrawn. I'd relate this to the "broken shells" spoken of in Qlippothic terms. A Nephesh that failed to find rest and die in Sheol would become an evil, hungry ghost, an empty, broken shell.
First of all Joseph Smith has damned all over the place through the Doctrine and Covenants. If there's not a Hell the Mormon Church says there's not a hell they totally discount Joseph Smith as a prophet.
could you please send the verses after minute 4:50 please. It describes perfectly why Trump and his cronies will land in hell. The hypocrazy of the church supporting / not standing up against Trump was one reason I had to leave that cult
Outer Darkness is Hell. Only "Hell" is a swear word in the Mormon world. So they just call it "Outer Darkness" instead.
I always thought "outer darkness" was just the "Mormon term" for hell. So, yes, when I was a Mormon, I believed in hell.
It would kind of be like a Hellenist saying “I don’t believe in heaven! I believe in Elysium!” It’s an after-life paradise, right? Might just as well call it heaven. It’s not a specific place we’re referring to, but the basic idea.
It’s called the spirit prison and they are there until the resurrection then they’re judged then they receive a kingdom of glory in one it the telestral world.
Minus the fire and brimstone.
As an avoidant person who keeps a dark house, an eternity of darkness always felt so peaceful to me.
They absolutely believe in Hell. It's semantics as a way to refer to it without sounding as critical as other religions. I was a member for 40 years.
I thought the worst kingdom was still better that earth…but without my family… so it was still a very scary idea to go less than celestial
When I was a member, I asked a question that no one would answer.. "Why would Satan punish those who rebel against the same god he did?"
You are right. It makes no sense. Satan will not torment the wicked.
What an amazing concept 😮 This wins the internet 😂
Here is my engagement comment because your content is great!
I appreciate that! 🥹
Exmormon & exchristian here, i was taught this as well! But now i know much better. This is all based off of fear 100%, power & control. They try to instill fear so that once thats inside you & has a good grip, they then have the power to tell you whatever they want you to believe! It's your choice to use your own head... or not! Thank you, Lexi. Nicely done!
Escaped Hell eight years ago!! So many conversations with people who are still active members and one thing is clear… Everyone believes something different while claiming to believe in the same doctrine! A hell of a lot of contradictions in Mormonism.
Yeeeeesss!!! This is my conclusion. This is all “Christianity” and possibly all religion. There is an illusion of agreement, sameness, hemomgeny. When really everyone has their own ideas and beliefs and understandings (every single human being) and as long as they are “towing the line” other followers will just acquiesce and endorse even if they don’t actually agree or are confused; it’s a vague collective resolution of cognitive dissonance- dismiss the fact there can’t actually be a cohesive complex belief system that everyone adheres to. This is one of the things that broke me. Being told vastly different things and taught different interpretations of The Bible from people who supposedly all have the same one Truth.
As a Mormon, I did not believe in Hell but you convinced me that it does exist in their mythology. Good job researching it!
@@Coastal1931 Are you proselytizing, James?
@@Coastal1931 I am a Never-Mo from a historically Mormon family, and read the BoM. Within the first 5 pages, I was thinking ‘this is bad Bible fanfic’.
Yes, I did read it.
@Shaman196 Yep, their all loving sky daddy tells them that salvation is free, and yet terms and conditions apply ... their all loving and powerful sky daddy has no problem burning its own children forever because they won't kiss its ass
LDS scripture includes outer darkness. This "place" was thrown in my face as a way to threaten me with eternal damnation because I turned against "the truth." I was in a Bishopric and studied LDS teachings voraciously. Outer darkness isn't considered hell as a doctrinal loophole. I did have a Stake President tell me that my family would visit me in the Telestial kingdom if they wanted to. Lol. Hell isn't a thing unless you believe in it.
@@Coastal1931if you study the teachings of "prophets" they are full of crazy teachings. It's a big part of the problem.
@@Coastal1931 If they play with rocks in hats and try to sleep with teenagers, I'd say that one is fairly obvious.
@@Coastal1931 have you noticed your logic is right along the lines of Jodi Hildebrand? Know when to stop my friend.
@@Coastal1931 I have bro. Several times. And I've grew up going to all the symposiums at BYU, and graduated from there, and never missed a Sunday service even when I was traveling. You're awfully judgemental for someone who knows nothing about me and claims to have the spirit of Christ with them 😂 try not to become a Jodi, or Tim, or Chad, or Lori, of Julie, or Ruby with your zealousness.
@@Coastal1931 I'm not struggling. I'm happily out. It's all built on lies and I hope for your time, money, and energy you find your way out soon. Good luck.
I was fully resigned to acceot the fact that the Celestial was out if reach for me, and was convinced I was destined for a "Telestial" existence.
I knew things were getting real when you whipped out the book of Mormon.
Thank you for being you!
As an ex Mormon growing up in the church in the 1970s, I found that the phrase "Outer Darkness" was seldom mentioned from the pulpit, but often "whispered" among the congregation in private conversations, especially among us teens. Wow, I just had seminary trauma flashbacks!
In seminary I was told that the telestial kingdom was the closest analogue to hell, and that outer darkness was where Satan was, and where people who had "seen the face of God and turned away" would go, and was outright told that you could count the people going there on two hands. Now that I'm out I don't care if hell is real or if I'm going there, I'm just trying to do the best I can here and be who I am.
Somehow I understood it as the Telestial Kingdom was like a form of hell because that's where all the murderers, liars, etc go, and that Outer Darkness was a "super hell" for people who literally saw angels/god/jesus and then went against them.
Also the whole "hell is a burning lake of fire" I was told was symbolic for extreme mental anguish and unending guilt of sins unrepented of. Not a particularly great thing to hear if you suffer from unnecessary and excessive guilt. 🙃
Super Hell 😂😂🔥
Kind of like how the church puts on there members.
The telestrial kingdom is not hell but people go there after spending time in the spirit prison, but it is damnation because they cannot progress any further then that world unlike those who make it to the celestial kingdom who go on progressing forever and eventually have spirit children of their own.
My Dad's father, who dug a life for his family out of the dirt, even achieved a respectable level of prosperity... Well, he knew I had abandoned the church and cornered me one day, seriously CORNERED me just to tell me I was going to Hell, to burn in torment forever.
My Mother's father, who was Mormon only for the love of my Grandmother once said to me, "just be good to people, respect our earth and the animals we rely on. And remember to let those you love that you Love them."
Guess which Grandfather I respected, and who I rejected...
I was always taught that "hell" was a temporary place where the spirits of the unbaptized/unrepentant went - also known as "spirit prison". After the second coming/exaltation of the earth, all spirits would be released from spirit prison and assigned to their permanent levels of "glory", telestial, terrestrial, and celestial. It's all bonkers, of course.
Well it’s better than what the other churches teach being stuck in Hell for evermore but what would be the point in being in Hell forever?? If it’s a punishment, punishments must come to an end! Hell is a partial judgment where they pay for their own sins after that they are judged in what good they did and after being washed clean they receive a kingdom of glory that reflects that judgment, or in other words they go a telestial kingdom with various degrees of glory and just like the stars some are brighter then others. Worlds without end.
It’s heartwarming that you read your scriptures 2:38 😁 That’s more than many other “active” do.
Before this video I would've said that Mormons don't believe in Hell and that David's song was metaphorical. But now, after all the points and quotes you shared, I agree with you.
I'm not a Morman but I have enjoyed your videos. Thanks for doing them. I did hear David's song and it is indeed heart warming to know that his Mom is with him for the long haul and loves him unconditionally. We all need that really.
I joined at twenty three after mental health issues which made me vulnerable to cults
Hell Together is a lovely song. As an agnostic who grew up in Utah, I interpreted David's Hell as the loss of his faith community and family. Forcing a mother to choose between her family and a church who believes in eternal family is sad.
Hold up! Outer darkness and spirit prison are the same thing?! Also exmo here. Definitely learned about hell.
Outer darkness is the space AFTER final judgment day
When you die you go to Paradise or Spirit Prison and have the opportunity to learn and accept the gospel there -
This is why they do baptism for the dead - so spirits who accept will have had their earthly ordinances done.
The thief on the cross didn’t go to “heaven” he went to paradise.
Hope this helps
Just because they don’t call it Hell doesn’t mean they don’t believe in it.
Outer Darkness and Telestial kingdom are where those who don’t live righteously or worthily enough are sent.
Tiers of glory and tiers of hell….
Not being able to be with who you love forever is hell, even if you're in heaven.
I'm surprised people are saying "Mormons don't believe in hell" when as you pointed out it's mentioned in the Book of Mormon numerous times, because that's the first I've ever heard the claim that they didn't, esp as someone who was convinced I wouldn't be making it to the Celestial Kingdom (even as a faithful Mormon) and hoping at the very least making it to the Terrestrial than being in with the "bad people".
Same. I was talking with a coworker last week who only left the church a year ago, and hasn't done any deconstructing. And he mentioned that Mormons don't believe in hell, and I had to do a double take like "were we part of the same religion?" but he continued, saying there's outer darkness. But it was the first time I ever heard that. I always thought that hell was used interchangeably with outer darkness
I always assumed Outer Darkness was hell🤷♀️
As an ex-Mormon who’s spent considerable time letting go of conditioning and belief, I’ve seen clearly that hell is nothing more than misperception in the here and now that leads to suffering…what we call hell. Thus, hell as is generally conceived is NOT Real, and no one could ever go ‘there’ when all we ever are is here….Now!
I grew up in Kansas and was taught we didn't believe in hell regardless of the BoM 🤷. I also had the impression that outer darkness was only for those who had their "calling and election made sure" who left the church and spoke against it. I understood it to be the smallest number of people - not ex Mormon people, but like apostles who not only left the church but did evil against it. That was my understanding at least.
Bear in mind I could have understand it wrong. I also remember it being described as nothingness rather than torture. Just a void of darkness.
I was born into the church in 1972 and continued to attend regularly until I was eighteen and then sporadically for stints throughout adulthood until I was about 40. What you are saying is basically what I was taught growing up and don't remember being taught anything different in my sporadic returns, though I can't remember it ever coming up per se in the years I attended following my forced attendance as a youth. I was born, raised, and live in Southern California, though my mom and many of my relatives have roots in Utah ... so not sure if it's a time period or location thing or what. You'd think if it's the true word of God, teachings would be consistent at all times and places.
I would have said no, we don’t believe in hell. I guess I was wrong. Shrug emoji. Nice work.
9:20: That was what I was taught about Mormon hell. You had to literally know god - like for a fact - and deny him.
The only person I was taught was in hell (that we knew of, because there might be others, I want to make that clear) was Cain. Even someone like Hitler was just in the Telestial Kingdom. Which is still basically paradise, according to Joseph Smith. I was also taught that your "hell" in those lower kingdoms was "knowing" that you COULD have had more glory.
Also, I had a priesthood teacher literally say the following phrase: "If you want to keep your penis, you need to go to the Celestial Kingdom" Apparently you lose your genitals in other kingdoms.
TK Smoothies
X Mormon here. Born in LDS hospital SLC Utah. Science ! Proud of you
When I was a Mormon I would have said yes, they don’t like swearing so it became prison/outer darkness.
I just listened to the song and it was beautiful.
We just had this conversation in my house. I'm exmo and both my fiance and roommate are nevermo. They love to ask me questions about Mormon (sorry, LDS) beliefs or teachings and the 3 degrees of heaven was just way too much for them. They're like, wait, what? How is one better than the other? Then the whole outer darkness thing comes up and they're giving eavh other the raised eyebrow looking at me like, 'she's making it up, no way that is true.' 😂 I was in the church in the 80's, 90's and early-mid 00's and holy crap! The things that have changed! My scriptures are definitely different than the new versions my nieces and nephews have
Outter Darkness, post Judgement, is definitely presented as Hell. I kind of half liked the idea (leave me alone in peace forever 😅), but one of my close exmo friends was absolutely terrified of it because we were taught that it was like just floating alone in an infinite void.
Also, yes, there are tons of references to Hell. I think most mormons think that it's where only Satan and his bodiless minions go; whereas, the majority of sinners will at least somewhat accept Jesus in spirit prison (pre-Judgement) and thereby go at worst to the Telestial Kingdom.
Interestingly, in some first century and gnostic Christian groups, the creator God of the old Testament Elohim or Yaldabaoth [see the Secret Gospel of John (Apopcryphon of John) for an overly detailed description] , was actually evil or ignorant enough to be considered evil. He created this material universe where we suffer, draining his mother's power to keep humans (who stem from the highest genderless divine) trapped in said material universe.
In other words, to them Mormons would basically have been Satanists who, united with Elohim intend to live in material realms forever. They thought, Jesus was imbued with God's mom's nature when he was baptised and basically stood for the opposite of the LDS church.
Weird! I was taught that hell wasn't a thing!
I was taught about hell from many of the sources you used. Our understandings of hell are very similar.
Getting older and leaving the church is realizing even their version of heaven is an MLM
Sort of -- Mormons don't believe in the standard conception of Hell that Christians do. There is the concept of Outer Darkness, and I'm not the only ex-Mormon who was told spirit prison was like the Christian conception of Hell, but I personally never bought this.
Hi! Speaking of David Archuleta, I miss your theme song…
Second, concerning hell. This video has been informative! I left the church just over 10 years ago, when I was in my mid ’40’s. I did believe outer darkness and “spirit prison” (the “hell” before final judgement) were hell. So I, as a Mormon, believed in hell.
I also believed the lower “degrees of heaven” were a form of hell because after judgment you would be fully aware of the “exaltation” that you gave up by being in a “lower heaven (terrestrial and telestial)”. Though both were still “glory” and better that here on earth, still a form of hell because you could have had better.
So… Hell Ya!!
My personal family still doesn’t believe I’m going to “outer darkness” hell though. Because to go there you need to be a son of perdition. Meaning you need a second anointing, or to have personally known Jesus and still deny him, or to have murdered the innocent (children under 8). So I’m clear there by that definition. Guess I’m going Telestial.
As an Ex-Mo former convert I heard many times in classes and from church members giving talks that the burning and fire are not literal, but it’s more like a burning in one’s conscience. I totally disagree with that because that’s not what the Bible describes. Most of Mormon doctrine that contradicts the Bible comes from the D & C. This is just one of many false doctrines which is why I went back to the Bible exclusively and a key reason why I left the “church”.
I was raised LDS, I went on my mission to Michigan at age 19. I had always believed that hell was outer darkness. But hell was more up to personal interpretation, Growing up in the church, hell was never really taught as an important concept, in other words the church never Bible thumped a fear of hell into. Me. Now as a post Mormon I consider the whole concept of a hell to be stupid and repugnant.
Joeseph Smith the founder of Mormonism laid the framework for the new denomination. He decided what the word of the Mormon God would be by writing the Book of Mormon, a rewrite of the Bible.
I am ex Mormon. I considered hell and outer darkness as being the same. When I was close to 30 years of age I found the book Meditation For Dummies. I started doing mantra meditation 45 minutes 5 days a week for 18 months. After doing this my thoughts were so much calmer and happier that it was like being in heaven and my thoughts prior to this were like being in hell. I can't even describe how much happier I am after discovering mantra meditation. The Mormon faith doesn't teach mantra meditation and I wish I had found this kind of meditation when I was younger. I ended up leaving the Mormon faith because I was tired of the Mormon faith teaching that my feelings like anger, fear, jealousy, etc. are evil. The Meditation For Dummies book taught that feelings aren't evil and it is best to practice feeling feelings until they release or dissipate.
Well done!
As an exmormon, I think that while they believe in Hell they have different qualifications. Unless you are the worst of the worst you get glory, which most christians do not believe, so I think mormons just really think that such a small population will go to hell that it doesn’t even register. Plus with the phrases of “outer darkness” and “spirit prison” we never really use the word Hell.
Pascal's Wager, which relies on a (censored) god
I would like you to do a video on priesthood (prophet, bishop, etc.) qualifications as it seems there are too many bishops whi are not "standard Christian seminary" qualified in addition to having the appropriate psychology training to help folks avoid these awful exmo stories and learn the truth about this cult and it's B.I.T.E. tactics.
Kudos to you for exposing the real truth. I used to consider joining but glad I did not. Rejected almost all denoms, including Catholicism. I found eastern greek orthodoxy and baptist to be the closest to that of the 12 disciples teachings and Jesus.
I always thought hell was "spirit prison", like that 1,000 years you have to do penance in or get preached to? Then that becomes hell after the final judgement, aka outer darkness.
I was a convert, and while I was still iiiiiiiiiiiiin the church, I wasn't aware of this traditional lake of fire/eternal torture aspect of outer darkness. But knowing now the list of all included there it really seems everyone falls into EITHER celestial kingdom or outer darkness/hell. I reallllllllly cannot wrap my mind around any "good" God torturing anyone for any length of time. There's nothing good about that. Even humans realize torture is evil. And after seeing Aaron Bushnell's excruciating death, I've been hyper-fixated the idea of how anyone can love/worship any being who employs something as excruciating as burning alive, and not just for less than a minute (as it was for Aaron until he passed out), but for 1000 yeeeeears or all eternity.
There is an esoteric term called the outer circle of humanity. It can be pretty dark when a lot of them are running on about 3 to 5 percent of their brain so ya some can be pretty "dark". Even those of us who try can be dim bulbs sometimes!
It is mind boggling to me that some "christians" don't believe in Hell. Just wow
I've been coming across several mainstream Christians lately who reject the entire Old Testament and everything except the warm/fuzzy parts of the New Testament (which are very few, honestly). I don't know how they rationalize that. The Bible is full of violence and threats.
If young members of the church think that the church teaches that there is no hell, then the church is in way worse shape than I thought. Like they aren’t even effetively teaching the membership the plan of salvation?
They should bring back the third hour or make not studying the scriptures something you must confess to your bishop about.
Missionaries told me that Jacob saying ' as a lake of fire' meant that the fire wasn't literal. Just that it was like a fire
As a devote Mormon in my younger days Hell was outer darkness. I equated it to any type of Christain definition of hell. It was just another way of saying it in my opinion. I remember always being taught at church that the people going to hell are the ones who knew the truth and rejected it. So gays, killers, thief's, pedos weren't going to hell but would only achieve the lowest celestial glory.
Exmo here. I straight up don’t remember ever being taught, in Sunday school or seminary, that there was any fire and brimstone in any part of the Plan of Happiness. In fact, I think in one of my seminary classes, my teacher actively taught the opposite; that Outer Darkness was just a complete separation from God, which in itself is the worst torment imaginable, no fire or brimstone necessary.
That being said, I am a few years younger than you, and I mentally left the church while I was still young enough that my mom could force me to go to church and seminary, and there were a number of times that I was skeptical enough to notice my teachers sprinkling in some preemptive apologetics (I’m specifically thinking of a time that my teacher brought up Joseph Smith’s underage wives and claimed that the girls’ fathers had begged him to marry their daughters so that they could be part of his family. I know. Ew.) so maybe they were trying to soften it to make it sound more palatable, or maybe they were trying to distinguish the Mormon church from everybody else. I don’t know the official reason for it, but I know that this is the first I’m hearing that the traditional view of hell actually is part of Mormon doctrine
There is no heaven or hell. No devils or angels. There is just this life. There are only we humans here together for a time. Don’t waste it. ❤
I don't believe in "heaven" or "hell." I believe there's a kind of greater consciousness that we go into, and then we're reborn from that. It's a bit quirky and not entirely solidified in my mind, but that's as near as I can describe it. 😊♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️
After 3 very serious NDE's, one lasting for 13.5 minutes, I believe you nailed it
Look up David Bohm quantum physicist and read about his scientific theory on the Material Universe and the Energy Universe. He theorized that the Energy Universe is indeed Sentient. You might be interested in that 😊
In the Telestial, you are allowed to drink ice tea all day cause of the heat in your vicinity. But no sugar or Splenda available for a sweetener. What do you expect in the lower kingdom. You can't enjoy nice things. 😊
I am an EX Mormon from Autria ... Couldn`t stay any longer last year after 63 years.
For me personally I think hell will be learning everything about missed opportunities to help others, seeing the results of our actions in life, learning how much we hurt others, learning how much good things we could have achieved ... learing the results of our lifes to others and to the planet / to life in general ... everything bad we did including the consequences to others ... when people became bad or criminals because of actions we have done to them and even take the responsibility for THEIR lifes too .... THAT WILL BE HELL
I studied with missionaries but didn’t get past the lesson on tithing cuz I’m poor😅
I was told that the three kingdoms were not hell but the best level of glory that they can understand. So even shitty people were given a sort of purgatory but not hell.
But of course I was probably not told a lot that might turn me off when I was being love bombed
I have understood it as you did. It seems more like Catholic limbo. Some will be there longer than others. But all will suffer for sins that have gone unrepentant. But honestly, it sounds better than eternal polygamy.
So hell is basically a hot burning lake of fire or whatever. Then Jesus comes back. Then Satan stops paying the heating bill and hell becomes all dark and cold or whatever. As someone who likes the cold, doesn't mind the dark, and doesn't like being with tons of people - yeah outer darkness sounds pretty sweet.
05:17 🤣🤣
Thanks!
When I was Mormon I believed in hell in 3 senses: 1. Outer darkness, 2. Spirit prison, and 3. Being separated from god. So in that third sense I would’ve considered anything other than the celestial kingdom a form of hell and damnation bc you could no longer progress. But I didn’t believe in a fire and brimstone torture hell. I thought that was a metaphor for the emotional pain they would have from their own guilt, not anything physical
To make this easy, there is a verse in the book of Mormon that answers it
"Woe unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell!" If anyone says mormons dont believe in hell, including Mormons, just recite that scrupture.
Ex-mormon I always thought Mormon hell was different from hell in any other Christian groups. That outer darkness was different from hell but it wasn't really spoken about
There was always 2 hells. Lowest heaven was full of unrepentant murders and everyone had their genitals cut off. And then super max hell aka outer darkness was the special bad hell for all those poor damned souls born to mormon parents and given the choice between being mormon or outer darkness with satan.
If that's not hell then what the hell is it?
If you like that song listen to "means to believe." By oh,sleeper. Talk about what we exMormons all know
In the 80sand 90s,There were 3 kingdoms (hell being one) plus "outer darkness".
Outer Darkness was the worst of all 4.
Wait, I'm sorry - is that really how the Book of Mormon is written?? "Whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever?" "For he delivereth his saints?" Why does it sound like a high schooler writing a parody of Shakespeare? 😂
Joseph Smith wasn't well educated, neither were the people he had write the BoM 😂
good job.
I love his song.
I even have heard about people saying the more and worse the sins the greater Jesus´s atonement is .... because in the end everybody will end up in heaven. For me that`s just insane
I thought Mormons didn't believe in hell. Then I read the BOM.
I have to be satisfied it’s Origen of Alexandria and Darkness is still in the School House of the Soul.
I had a general authority say i will go to hell if i didnt choose him and the church over my friends.
Okay, this is fascinating.
You have proven to me that Mormons do officially believe in hell. But I grew up attending LDS church from infancy all the way through my teens, and I've actually told people that Mormons don't believe in hell because that's what my young women leaders taught me. I remember this really distinctly. "We don't believe in hell. There's outer darkness, but that's only for apostates." Outer darkness was described as a place with "weeping and gnashing of teeth." Nobody talked about fire. That exactly phrase - "weeping and gnashing of teeth" - was repeated so often that we all could and did recite it anytime the subject came up.
When we discussed spirit prison, there was no indication that it was a particularly bad place. I imagined it as boring, maybe, like a linoleum waiting room with no windows and you were never allowed to leave, and then there would be missionaries standing around preaching, and if you accepted what they said then you got beamed out right away...unless nobody had done your temple rituals, in which case you were stuck standing around until somebody did, so we all better get on that, right?
I wasn't a believer as a child and never accepted any of this as being true, but that was my understanding of the doctrine. Apparently we weren't getting exactly the right story. (In case anyone's curious, we were in Texas, and this would've been in the late '90s.)
A lot of Mormon doctrine is an improvement on standard Christianity, it is more logically consistent and it explains the problem of evil and the problem of infinite punishment… but it’s also documented to be entirely false and invented as a con so it’s a interesting study in how religions are created by men.
I miss the music at the beginning
I think we create our own hell which causes damnation. which is a stop in progression! I love Luke 7:47.
Oh, so Mormons believe in Dantes inferno. Cool. I guess.
The way it is taught, anything less than the Celestial Kingdom is basically Hell.
Let me explain: In the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom, a man and wife can progress eternally, having spirit chuldren, making worlds, etc. In no other kingdom is such progression possible, even tho some of those kindgoms are pleasant. If one is not progressing, they are literally damned, or "stopped up".
So damned is a state of inability to progress. Being damned is also a synonym for going to Hell.
Ergo....anything less than the celestial kingdom is basically Hell per mormon doctrine.
Yeah but even the celestial kingdom would be a milder form of hell for those who hate the idea of polygamy or being relegated to their assigned role as pretty much just a mother.
Hey I'm that ex-Mormon guy from Tiktok that you dropped a mention to come here to this video. To clarify, I'm one of those who believed that outer darkness is hell, just that not many people on earth would go there.
I did have some comments on this video. You mentioned 2 Nephi, but I feel these verses are quite specific that the devil and his angels, as in, those who followed Satan's plan in the pre-existence are going to hell or outer darkness. I don't think that those verses apply to people on earth.
I don't want to touch to much on Mormon Doctrine. Though, it is mentioned that the sons of perdition will go to outer darkness rather than a kingdom of heaven. In the church the term having a "perfect knowledge" of God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost and turning away makes you a son of perdition. Very few people have this perfect knowledge. Even Bruce R. McConkie only mentions Cain and Satan himself as receiving the title "Perdition." I would argue that Judas meets this standard, and by Mormon standards only apostles and prophets are capable of this perfect knowledge to turn away from.
On the church's website you read that the sons of perdition are "thoses who have denied the son after the father has revealed him." This goes back to that term perfect knowledge. God has to have revealed his son to you and you still turn away. I would say that this isn't a simple Mormon Testimony moment or experience, but rather having something more tangible like seeing Jesus or hearing his actual voice.
All of this being said I don't think you, I or other ex-Mormons, atheists or agnostics are going to outer darkness permanently and that very few people are.
I'm surprised you still have a book of Mormon
Yes, I know I accidentally put a ''d'' in the wrong place.
The confusion is hidden in words that mean concepts. I always understood (I'm a 52 yr Italian Mormon). The hell mentioned in the BoM correspond to the traditional christian hell (fire and pain). JS taught that that hell does not exist. Instead he taught that the WICKED persons (not unbelivers or exmo), those who willingly harm others, will find themselves "in darkness" after death. After the resurrection there will be no hell. The Sons of Perdition (only the MOST WICKED, who do not repent even in front of Jesus) "will return to their place" that is, they do not keep their resurrected body and regress to the previous state of existance. So I would say: Mormons do not believe in traditional hell.
There's also this passage in the infamous D&C 132 (Ol' Joe's statement on plural marriage) , verse 26:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God."
Did that just say that someone with a resurrected body will have his body destroyed and then be handed over to Stan? Maybe someone can clear that up for me?
Read it as “but first they shall be destroyed in the flesh…”
Meaning that when they die they will go to hell and be punished UNTIL they are resurrected.
I understood that officially outer darkness was hell, but it could also be understood as anywhere we are spiritually dead (outside of Heavenly Father’s presence), so hell would be anything beneath the celestial kingdom. We would live apart from God, no eternal progression, and with the knowledge forever that we could have been with him and that is hell. Also spirit prison is a type of hell. So yes. There is Mormon hell, in multiple senses.
Ex-mo here. I was always taught that Mormons DON'T believe in hell. Purgatory/spirit prison might SOUND like hell, but it isn't so don't call it that because hell is a bad word. Outer Darkness is also NOT hell, but it is worse than hell so don't become an apostate.
I can't make this trash up. 😒
Thanks
I was mormon, and yes, I did believe in hell.
I'm ex-mormon, my mother believes that hell is an actual place, and outer darkness is for apostates. My dad says that non-mormons will go to hell and angels will become missionaries to administer the gospel to those that had never heard the doctrine and they will have the chance to be baptized and go to heaven.
Sheol is a place of rest. Though some see it as gloomy and dark, it is supposed to be a place of quiet. A place to "Rest In Peace."
It is the spiritual equivilent of the Grave. From what I can see, the grave is where the body (guph) lay, rest, and returns to the earth, consumed by nature. Similarly the unused persona, (nephesh) goes to Sheol to rest, to be consumed and returned to nature. It is the Living Part, the Ruach the true Spirit of a person which will reincarnate and eventually experience the World to Come.
Though that might mean a stint in Gehennah. Though thought of as "Hell" to Christians, Gehennah is more of a reform prison. It is temporary, as all sins are forgiven on Rosh Hashannah (which is why the prayers of atonement include even dead relatives).
I suppose one could technically be stuck there forever if nobody prays on your behalf? But the prayers of attonement tend to be communal. Everyone admits to everything so nobody is singled out.
Anyway, Gehennah is temporary. Sheol is just the rest and death of the unused Nephesh after the Spirit has withdrawn.
I'd relate this to the "broken shells" spoken of in Qlippothic terms. A Nephesh that failed to find rest and die in Sheol would become an evil, hungry ghost, an empty, broken shell.
So there's only 1 person going to hell, the one that betrayed Jesus. We're not going to hell Because, we didn't get to see Jesus first hand..
First of all Joseph Smith has damned all over the place through the Doctrine and Covenants. If there's not a Hell the Mormon Church says there's not a hell they totally discount Joseph Smith as a prophet.
could you please send the verses after minute 4:50 please. It describes perfectly why Trump and his cronies will land in hell. The hypocrazy of the church supporting / not standing up against Trump was one reason I had to leave that cult
Satan would never allow that filth into his home
Do you know you just described the federal government and you describe every possible and every prophet on the Earth.