Toyota will RE-PROGRAM the 2024 Tacoma to prevent future front differential failures. TFL React.
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- Опубликовано: 12 июл 2024
- Thanks to Sheldon Brown and TFL for doing a video on this. They didn't have to, and I appreciate that Toyota gives more information on this after a thorough investigation.
00:00 - Intro
01:04 - What failed and why
06:20 - The Silver Lining
07:06 - Should you worry
14:16 - They can't build a bulletproof truck 
Авто/Мото
What do you think about this failure specifically? I wish they could be "overbuilt", but I think times have changed. At least it seems to be more rare than the latest transmission issues.
Seems like shrinkflation has hit the automotive sector, smaller, weaker, cheaper components but it all looks the same on the outside. Companies are always looking for ways to cut costs, especially in this market when their supplier costs are likely going up
it's a lose-lose. everyone would lose their minds over the cost of one of these that are 'overbuilt'.
The front axle capacity was exceeded by 1.7% 🤣
Go to any trail and there will be a pre-05 Toyota being bounced off of obstacles on the rev limiter. Capacity being exceeded basically on the entire trail. Built tough unlike this over priced example.
1st Gen Tacos were literally being laden with sheet metal and sent to the Middle East to have a gun mounted in the bed. Meanwhile here at Toyota of North America the new Tacoma can't survive a low throttle low range obstacle 🤦
I think most people don’t realize the complications in having a motor control system like MTS which is a robotic system. Simple, but still a robotic system that has independent commands of acceleration and braking to each wheel with wheel slippage as sensory inputs.
For example If the control system is badly tuned one can give contradictory commands in such close succession that it can brake things because it is beyond the design limits.
Because that system may be so quick say accelerate at high rate then brake all within say 10 ms then accelerate again full throttle in another 10 ms, one may brake things.
A normal human could only do that in 100s of milliseconds so 10 times slower and would never brake the components.
So that’s partly what is happening here.
Humans can also injure themselves by themselves by being too violent in their movements, so it’s not just machines and robots. Like causing injuries by throwing a ball at full strength because one hasn’t done it in a while and doesn’t have the muscles anymore or is not warmed up or just bad control (not stopping fast enough and going beyond the ligaments limits) etc
Putting beefier components is not necessarily the answer. For any mechanical system and given a control system, one can probably devise crazy control commands such that things will be guaranteed to brake.
Because the beefier are the parts, the more torque and bigger motors one need to move these heavier parts, so that if one increases one the other also has to increase, such that one may often be at the limit of being able to brake things if the controller is being erratic.
@@OldelCpt Proper engineering cold have prevented the problem from the start.
A software fix for a hardware failure is definitely a poor solution.
It's definitely something that can be deployed easier, but would be nicer to just have parts that can take the full abuse of the power output.
how to destroy a brand
EXACTLY. Sounds like what Boeing did to cover up their cost-cutting (they tried to pair big and heavy new engines with their old fuselage design - it wouldn't balance and fly straight so they used software to autocorrect the plane's pitch)
Remember when Toyota trucks and SUV’s were built with components that would meet any possible usage, and then be made 20% stronger than that? Seems like that’s gone. If you own a previous generation Tundra, Tacoma, 4Runner, GX, Landcruiser, etc - keep it!!
@@993mike man i own a 2006 prerunner and i wont touch a new toyota product at all... im actually looking for an F150 stx 2018 and up...
Sounds like a politician talking instead of a engineer
Yeah guessing his tongue is tied pretty hard. I'd bet Toyota had a script for him to follow exactly.
Management
Amen. My thoughts exactly
TFL is so bought and paid for, it's ridiculous.
After that interview, I kinda lost some respect for them.
That is duck tape fix
I Agree
Yep. Think of TFL as toyotas advertising employees.
TFL has always been a joke of a RUclips channel
With the price they are charging it should be damn near indestructible
Twice the price, half the reliability is the new Toyota motto. It's sad bc love my Tacoma 2000 and 2022 but I will never touch a first yr turbo. Toyota should offer the NA V6 along with these engine. It's too big of a major shift.
TFL is spineless.
TFL = Truckreviews For Loot
Absolute shills. More worried about sucking the corporate teat.
@@HAHA.GoodMemedude this is so funny, absolutely made my day so far 😂
Totally agree. Quit watching their reviews/promotions because of overly optimistic reviews.
TFL are just nothing but “ass-kissers to Toyota and ALL other fan sissies in 4th gen Tacomaland!😳
He said "Change your driving habits"....
I say, stop making junk.
Car guy, your correct. Toyota if full of Sh***. Car manufacturers need to build less complicated cars.
If it breaks under moderate load, make it stronger! Don't neuter the the traction control!
Yeah we'd all prefer a super durable/beefy truck but I don't think any manufacturer is going to give us that. They'll plan for the 99% and the 1% might break things.
If they beef up this part, other stuff will break, instead. Their response is much less expensive.
They tried to save money by reusing drivetrain components designed for a much weaker 2GR-FE instead of beefing up the weak parts to handle the big increase in torque. It's the kind of crap that domestic manufacturers caught flak for years ago. Toyota will put out an ECU update that detunes the engine when in 4WD to protect weak carryover parts. They knew the new engine was going to make way more torque than the 2GR but decided to save money instead of doing things right and beefing things up. The ADD will still be a weak point and that engineer brought up tire size for a reason. If your Tacoma isn't bone stock, plan to pay for ADD repairs on your own because the warranty isn't going to cover it and it's likely to continue to be an issue.
@@TheCarGuyOnline At this point we just want a truck that doesn't break if it drives over an icy patch on the way to the off-road trail. If the ADD is under so much strain it breaks the way it did for TFL and others, that's a huge red flag that the powertrain is way undersized for the torque of the new engine. They raised the price by $20k and eliminated most of the labor costs for assembling the truck. Surely they could have spent a little more money to beef up the parts that transmit power to the wheels.
TFL sold their "long term" Tacoma after about six months. That says more than any Toyota or TFL executive ever could.
That’s about average. They’ve only kept the ram 2500 for longer, bc it’s their work truck.
They broke the 4WD and overheated the transmission on a basic towing test. I think they're trying to get rid of it before resale values tank like they have with the 3rd gen Tundra.
@@moshet842 They’ve said many times they keep “long term purchases” as long as it takes to do every video they can with it, as opposed to press loans, which they can only use for 1-2 weeks. They kept the red TRX about a year. They sell them to free up money to buy the next big purchase when the clicks peter out.
And he passed up his reserved Land Cruiser. Actions speak louder than words
@@DJR5280 what a joke the land cruiser is. it is a sneak peak at a 2025 4runner limited with a plate on the bottom to protect the wife and kids on the way to the mall.
How about just making the actual physical shit stronger!
I agree.
Wow! Reprogramming. The cheap way out which almost never works. Bravo Toyota 👏
Thanks for keeping us up to date on this mess.👍
Were I've seen such solution before? Oh yes Boeing did it to the 737 max with spectacular erm.. catastrophic results 😢
You cannot re-program hardware issues that come from cheapened materials and bad quality designs. What a bandage solution for PR purposes. They need to replace it with a better designed/tested part but they know it will cost them more.
I never expected Toyota to cut costs this much.
It's the same part from the 3rd Gen....
They are going to de-tune the engine when the truck is in 4WD. Guaranteed. I hope someone with a 4th gen is able to compare the original powertain tune to the post-update tune. They'll limite torque output to protect the ADD. They could have beefed up the ADD, but I suspect they made that a weakpoint to protect other components like the front and rear differentials. I also suspect they'll be detuning the engine or recalibrating their IMT rev-matching after the "Truck King" channel had the clutch fail on a botched 5-3 rev-matching downshift. Toyota tried to claim they shifted from 5th to 1st gear but the engine only revved to 4500. They were moving at 55 MPH and had they dropped the clutch in 1st gear, the engine would have easily shot up to 10k RPM and thrown a rod or destroyed the transmission. And as others have pointed out, normally manual transmissions won't let you put it into 1st gear when you're moving that fast for exactly that reason. Just wait, they'll put out a software update specifically for variants with the manual transmission after customers have the same thing happen.
Toyota cheats on test results, use cheap parts and over price vehicles. toyota has become fat and lazy just like us carmakers. vehicles coming out of china are vastly superior and cost 1/3.
If you listen closely to what Sheldon is saying, he basically admits that the drivetrain is too weak so they have decided to defang the engine rather than get to the root cause, i.e. the damn thing was underdesigned. So much for the rugged, reliable vehicles that Toyota used to build.
You are right first it was the rear leaf spring made out of cheap material, hundred of thousands broken and they make you paid for it. The poorly made frames. Toyo 💩💩💩 always had problems and they try to hide it. I wont be buying toyo 💩💩💩 again.
The engineer does sound like a politician. I understand why most of the industry claim it's too expensive to overbuilt vehicles, however Toyota has traditionally been the one manufacturer that doesn't do this. The reason the older Tacoma and 4Runner was popular wasn't because of their low performance engine, or less efficient transmission or poor mpg, when compared to their competitors. Rather it was that it was so overbuilt that it was impossible to wear out or break these two vehicles with hard driving. You could have taken a 4runner anywhere and know that it will always bring you back without breaking down and leaving you on a lonely mountain trail somewhere where it would be hours at best to get help. People who buy these vehicles are the ones that never want to be stuck on the side of the road, and value that more than anything else, more than 'fun to drive' and more than 'mpg'. I do like the new engine & transmission, but I also would have liked if it was overbuilt enough so I have peace of mind that I wouldn't have my vehicle break because of some unplanned hard driving. Toyota should understand this is why their customers buy their vehicle. And if they lose this legendary reliability, they will lose their customer base.
Agree 100%. The only reason I buy Toyota is for reliability, if that is gone...I'll just buy something more sexy and there are plenty of those out there.
Well Said!
@@TheCarGuyOnlineyup, buyers put up with a lot for that reliability (crappy infotainment, ugly exterior design, dated mechanics, minimalist interior design, etc) if that reliability goes, why stay with a Toyota?
Look at the axles on a HD pickup. Compare them to a Tacoma. Yes, the Toyota may only have a 4-cylinder (turbocharged), but it produces more torque than your standard 6.4 Hemi in a RAM Power Wagon below-2,000 RPM. The Ram however has axles that are identical to those on the Cummins, that are rated at over 1,000 ft/lbs of torque at 1,500-RPM.
Toyota needs to (must) go back to the drawing board to maintain their brand reputation, fire whoever is in charge of vehicle production at this point. The entire driveline should be overbuilt, it's not difficult, the big 3 have been building trucks that produce large amounts of torque and horsepower for decades now. No axle or transmission failures.
A completely stock truck shouldn’t be able to break itself under designed use
I agree. At least they are, in their own weird way, admitting that and "fixing" the issue with MTS, however I personally feel like you do. I'd just prefer a stronger IC shaft and supporting parts.
I have a lot of Toyotas. I will never buy one of these new turbo trucks. They are definitely not well built. If I want a new truck, and I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I would buy a Nissan.
That Nissan Frontier is getting a lot of attention and they are selling a TON of them. Not very many issues in comparison to other brands.
Traded my 2018 Tacoma for a 23 Frontier, and I'm still impressed at the build quality and how well it drives. People were dismissing the Frontier as being too old school but it's become the sleeper hit of the midsize category.
Man took the words right out of my mouth! The new frontier was boring at first because it was a new body on top of their old tech, but thats exactly what Toyota should have done!
Nothing wrong with saying that. Nissan has quietly built long lasting pickups for decades. Mine only has 428,000 miles.
@@BrickbatteryOld school RULES.
I watched the video. The front differential was doing 4WD stuff when I broke, lol. It didn’t look like a rare case of anything
Now I have to put the automotive engineer in the same class as a lawyer and car salesman.
@@hphillips7425 yep and how sad is that
What's BS is that Chief engineer bragged multiple times before releasing the Tacoma that they did multiple strenuous testing on the Tacoma and its had nothing but multiple issues since it came out with the differentials the shutter grills, transmission overheating and now manual transmissions blowing up and that's just what we know now. They could be hiding engine issues potentially later on like they did the Tundra's.
I'm a contract engineer and have worked on a few projects for Toyota. Their validation process uses a lot of simulated (in lab) testing and significantly less real world testing than other manufacturers. This instance is exactly why you don't do that with trucks and off road vehicles. It's fine for a RAV4 or Camry that's going to live on the interstate. Lab testing gives great accelerated lifecycle data, but at the expense of being done with a very limited number of variables. That this problem never showed up in their validation shows their validation process is fundamentally flawed.
They said the new Tundra engine would go a million miles too. They overestimated by about 980,000 miles.
lets add in the admsission from toyota about cheating on tests. Take a deep bow mr ceo lolz. Toyota Chairman Akio Toyoda publicly apologized for extensive cheating on certification tests for seven vehicle models...
@@Bobby_86415 They also bragged the new Tundra would last as long as the old one. Propaganda has entered Toyota culture.
@@islandhopper100 Ah, but with Toyota, ALL sins are immediately forgiven by its cult worshippers, and they continue to bring their large financial offerings to the company they believe can walk on water.
Modern Toyota, underbuilt and overpriced. Toyota os essentially saying they need to further detune the vehicle which probably negates the benefit of going with the less reliable forced induction 4 cylinder vs the NA V6. Basically it cant handle the torque, which was Toyotas big selling point on why the less reliable turbo four was better than the outgoing NA V6.
I blame Sheldon and the engineers
Management probably saw how much profit RAM, GM and Ford were making per unit sold and said "We want some of that" so they cheaped our on part quality while jacking up MSRPs and reducing labor costs by moving production entirely to Mexico. It all about greed and maximizing profits.
I think ToMoCo is leaning on the engineers to cost cut to the extreme and that meant reusing powertrain components that were never designed for the torque of the new engine. I blame Mike Swears. He's Sheldon's boss and I wouldn't put it past him to say "no let's just use the ECU tune to limit power to protect the driveline instead of spending money on building the truck to handle it." Mike Swears is also the guy to blame for the V8's disappearing from the Tundra. He refused to update the 3UR-FE 10 years ago. He was asked in 2014 what he was going to do to update the engine for better fuel economy because all the other manufacturers had greatly improved theirs for CAFE. He said "my competition has pushrods and 2 valves per cylinder. I have a dual overhead cam 32 valve V8, do I need to update my engine?" Yeah Mike, the federal government isn't going to just let you have a pass on emissions and fuel economy regulations, so you better update that V8 a little bit so you aren't forced to drop it from the truck.... fast forward a few years and the V8 is gone because Mike refused to update it. Ford still has a DOHC V8 in their trucks and Toyota had the engineering prowess to update the 3UR to have kept it going. That's what is so annoying with Toyota these days. They cost cut and kick the can down the road until it's too late and they throw trucks together that have all these issues and throw away reliability in the process.
Yep
I blame tfl what are you doing in 4low trying to go up a icy surface when you need acceleration in that scenario not torque
Wow. Front locker failed. Never mind, I'm wrong. Toyota has blown decades of customer loyalty. Blown. Nissan Pro4X fans throwing parties. Thanks, always. TFS
rest in peace tacoma
Exactly. Keeping my 3rd gen forever.
can't program strength into a piece of steel. The fact that they had to remove 8hp from the manual transmission is all I need to know about Toyota's practices right now. The truck has been engineered to exact specs instead of being overbuilt like they used to be. I've done rougher things with my truck in real world situations simply trying to get out from being stuck somewhere in my steep yard, in the rain, at a steep angle and my old truck did just fine sliding and slipping on rock and grass, and that's just an old F150 with no special offroad package.
I bet they will (kidding) :). They'll detune it enough so this doesn't happen often.
Thats a great point because you dont need 4low but rather wheel speed in a icy situation. This imo was poor off road skills and not understanding momentum from acceleration and not thrust from torque
the best part about my slow 2018 2.7 tacoma is that i will never have enough power to break anything. i got 33 inch wheels on it, offroad at least once a month and still have original cv axles at 90k miles. best part: i still get 23-19 mpg. ill be keeping this truck forever.
simple is almost always more reliable.
"Illusion of durability" seems like such a short-sighted and bad business model long term.
I heard from a friend of mine that someone in their group had a 2024 Tacoma on the trails this past weekend and had the same kind of failure that TFL did. Based on the interview TFL did with a Toyota engineer, it really seems like Toyota decided to save money by re-using components in the powertrain that are not suited to the kind of torque the new engine is making and instead they're just relying on the software to protect things from damage. I'm willing to bet the "Truck King" channel's clutch failed for the same reason because it sounded nothing like a truck being shifted into first gear. I think they just did a terrible job at calibrating rev-matching for a 5-3 shift and the clutch, also not updated for all the additional torque, failed due to the computer botching the rev match. For as much as they raised the price and slashed labor costs by moving all production to Mexico, their QA and pre-production testing process is trash. None of these problems should have made it to the consumers when Toyota wants $50 to 65k for a 4th gen. I have lost any faith in Toyota at this point.
In the truck king video they replay the backseat camera man view. The rpm gauge swings up to around 4500 rpm but doesn't red line, just as you would expect for third gear not first gear..
@@lemerdtool I agree, nothing in the video suggests he went into 1st gear. If he shifted into first gear and dropped the clutch, the engine would have tired to rev to 10k RPM, the tires would have squealed, the back end would have likely whipped out sideways, and there's a good chance that the engine would have thrown a rod.
I just didn't think an old timer like that can make a mistake on the money shift. You are never suppose to abuse your clutch to brake but people do. However, the toyota quality has real gone down. Reputation is earned. Chevy used to make solid trucks in the old days and their 2001-2006 trucks are solid. However, they went downhill. It's a sad day for Toyota.
All those useless words just to avoid saying “our trucks are not built as strong as they used to be because we are entering our cost cutting GM era at Toyota”
A lot more torque and a driveline that wasn’t built to handle it , a pisser at the amount of money they want for these trucks ! ! !
They are not cheap...that's for sure.
Can they reprogram the price to be a price that people on earth understand is reasonable and not geared towards buying the CEO another yacht.
LOL...
Huge CYA because it's TFL. For ordinary owners, it's "abuse" and warranty voided.
EXACTLY!!!!
1.7% is all it takes for the axle to fail.
I'll keep my 2005 Taco... abused the hell out of that thing with no issues.
I hope people SEND IT with these trucks and truly show its weaknesses.
I wouldn't pay more than 20K to be a guinea pig
the best way not to break your 2024 tacoma is to never drive it.
😂
Luckily I was wearing my wading boots while listening to the Toyota engineer.
hehe...
In four low and it broke.... trying to climb over that small rise?? That is utter junk.......wow. Toyota has taken ten steps backwards with the Taco and the Tundra. Never thought I'd see the day.......
The only fix for an under engineered part is to detune.
Yeah, it's much cheaper to do so and you can immediately provide reliability to people that already own them...maybe they'll refresh the IC shaft eventually, I suppose time will tell.
@@TheCarGuyOnline yeah, but it is not the only place they have cheaped out...thinner frame and god knows what else all the while jacking prices to the moon.
They want to detune to protect their image from being destroyed by poor off road knowledge. Wtf you doing in 4low on icy rocks up hill? All your doing is asking to break something because if you see in the tfl vid they were going know where before the failure because you need acceleration or wheel speed not torque
@@INNIMA lolwut?
Toyota had so much time to design a good vehicle but they couldnt.
LC200 - LC300 (approx 17yr ) , LC 150 - 250 ( approx 16yr ) , Tundra - new Tundra , Tacoma - new Tacoma , Lexus GX & LX ...
They failed.
Sheldon is sounding like Joe Biden
Aw , Cmon man
haha...well I think he sounds much more competent than JB. Though...sometimes when my dog is snoring he makes more sense than JB.
@@TheCarGuyOnline lmao
He beat Medicare too?
Ha, you just got a new subscriber for that one
I can't imagine when my Tacoma will have this issue at 37k miles, or 62k miles, what will the excuses from dealers, this is scares
Man, what I would do to be able to go back in time and buy a basic, reliable Toyota 4x4 pickup. No electronic multi-terrain bs, manual transmission, manual transfer-case, manual locking hubs, no EPA-pleasing emissions bs. Nothing really sets Toyota apart from all the other auto makers now. I’ll just be buying importing Toyota’s from overseas now. Notice how the rest of the world doesn’t have these delicate powertrains in their Toyota models.
Your channel should have 10x the number of subscribers! You have great insight to what's happening in the industry, especially from a safety / recall standpoint.
I appreciate these breakdowns, you approach them neutral and make valid points. Keep it up 👍🏼
Thanks, will do!
If these parts were overbuilt like they were in the past none of this would have happened. Instead of buying and installing a more expensive and capable beefy diff that can handle more torque than the engine puts out sounds like they cut corners and costs by using a less robust (cheaper) diff and try to manage it via software. Toyota probably saved maybe $50 or $100 max by installing a cheaper, lower quality diff. Toyota is turning into RAM, GM, Ford, Hyundai/Kia.
Yeah and I'm guessing from Toyotas perspective, how many people actually use 4lo/off-road...anymore, so many people are just pavement pounding commuter trucks. They are just playing the odds.
I don’t think that the cost is the only factor here. I think they are trying to minimize the weight of the vehicle for better mpg. A lighter vehicle is also preppier to drive. Also why even off-roading vehicles often have to add underbody protection after market.
The only reason I bought a TRD OR 2022 was for overlanding. Else I would have gotten a TRD sports m. I've done many trails in the PNW and Utah and the 3rd Gen is solid and I'm always impressed. So when people buy the off road edition, Toyota needs to make it off road worthy. This is a joke. When overlanding and there's no signal and no gas station for hours away, esp through death valley other places in the hot heat, yeah reliability is super important.
Isn't this what Boeing tried to do to fix the 737 max planes that kept crashing? (using software fixes to fix hardware problems).
Fascinated by the Freudian slip where he keeps saying “Transmission”. Hmmmm.
The car care nut who is a toyota/lexus mechanic and enthusiast has a video where he questions the engineers about the Tacoma 4wd and he isn't buying it either.
They need to get to a point where they can say the any truck/suv is something they'd consider letting their mom drive out in the middle of nowhere with no cell service, in bad weather conditions with bad road conditions. That's something most of the older vehicles were built to handle, and i cant say the same for new ones
toyota sounding more and more like boeing
Yeah, at least we know all the deets now I suppose :)
So Basically this Toyota Engineer , is saying they screw up on this new generation Toyota Tacoma Midsize pickup truck !! So how about they just build a Beefier drivetrain to start with because this is unacceptable !! Especially coming from Toyota !! Just look at the new generation Toyota Tundra Full Size Pick Up truck with there new TT V6 engines blowing up !! Because of Poor Manufacturing !! Which Toyota should still Offer as a Option V8 engine in a full size pickup truck !! So they Better get it together quick !!!😤😤😤🤬🤬
Toyota is building shit! Plane and simple! Everything they are building is breaking under warranty! This was not a problem before so why now?
Sheldon is doing what’s called corporate speak…..what Sheldon is saying is “Do Not buy a new Toyota trucks or SUV’s expecting any type of quality or longevity.” Thank you for making it easy leaving the Toyota brand Sheldon.
Did y'all see truck King roasted their clutch on their manual Tacoma ? They did the 5th to 3rd downshift to test rev matched and clutch went bye bye. These new trucks are not built like old Toyota at all.
Yeah I watched that a few times. I can't tell if he went 5 to 3 or 5 to 1, but it sure looked like he went 5 to 3 because their heads didn't go forward, it didn't lock rear wheels...nothing crazy. I'm guessing Toyota will say "the clutch is a fused failure point"...seems like that's their goto explanation for anything that breaks. "It was designed to break there so it didn't do more damage".
@@TheCarGuyOnline lol that is exactly what they said in their response. I don't believe he wants to 1st because the truck didn't even red line.
TFL has become toyota fan lovers
There's no way that front diff should have snapped on that. If the tires are slipping on smooth rock and ice, there's not that much stress on it. They are making up excuses for Toyota. TFL must get a lot of money from Toyota.
It’s not so much that it was slipping, given that the MTS was on, the system most likely attempted to apply brakes to the wheels to decrease slipping. So it’s fast accelerating with strong braking that was probably too much to handle in short succession with the new higher torque now available.
It’s probably something that most drivers would never do unless a race car driver with independent braking for each wheel or axles.
@@OldelCpt That's even worse if that's the case. It's the whole drivetrain working against itself? Garbage. Toyota should get rid off all these gimicky drive modes and driver assist modes. It's an off road truck. If you're buying it to off road, learn how to off road without all these stupid "dusty road mode" options. Instead of spending money on pointless and worthless drive mode programming/development, spend that money on more robust drivetrains and parts.
Toyota really trying to destroy their entire reputation in the span of 6 months. Bravo!
1.7% beyond snaps parts? Not much contingency engineered in.
razor thin margins.
What toyota needs is Japanese engineers, not this donuts eater. Build the cars with steel, not aluminium. Made to last 60,001 miles. Programmed obsolescence. American quality at their top.
It really sounds like they went as cheap as possible for Gen 4 and hope that they can tune it in software.
Specially if you account for the transmission and differential overheating issues that others are encountering.
I bet that more issues will arise once these trucks are older and get more miles.
The ol’ Dodge trick. We need to “reprogram the program.”
Correct fix - mechanically redesign the differential so it does not fail. Use this part in future production Tacos. Use this part to replace failed older style differentials.
Incorrect fix - do not redesign flawed differential. Instead change the software in an attempt to protect the flawed differential.
A differential is not "overbuilt" if it does not break. It is built to do its job. The differentials Toyota is using are underbuilt.
My parent's 1978 station wagon with the sweet custom wood stickers on the side worked some climbs as hard as TFL's truck did, without breaking. Got stuck a couple times, yes. But didn't grenade.
What a joke lol. If youre in the market for a truck, how can you possibly consider these new generation of toyota trucks? At least with ford you know parts are readily available and when your engine is toasted, theyll give you a long block. If everyone is now in the business of small displacement, throwaway trucks, you might as well go with a company that wont gaslight you when their under engineered truck fails.
Idk what you are talking about, the ranger and Colorado both provide drivetrain options from full size trucks that can tow 10k, and are designed for fleet use. They are significantly better than my fj cruiser or any other truck you falsely believe to be built more heavy duty in their class. Sure Toyotas seem to be trash now but at least Chevy have reinforced their blocks and used forged internal plus two timing chains. I wouldn’t be surprised if they last longer than the 4.0 minus the need to potentially swap out the turbo. Further they produce an incomparable amount more power in an rpm range that is actually usable. I really can’t see the downside, and the engines are available for 8k if you wanna swap them out for cheap instead of getting another truck.
@@michaelstrang2563huh? Thats my point…the competition is better. Im just highlighting a n/a motor is more likely to be more reliable over LONG term use. Say 250k+.
I've heard a lot of people ranting and raving about how good that chevy 2.7L is. So far, it hasn't really had major issues and puts out tons of power. We'll see if it starts having piston ring issues due to DI/no port injection...time will tell. There are a TON of them in production/use though. Chevy usually has more transmission and electrical issues than other problems...
@@TheCarGuyOnlineyup, absolutely too early to tell. I hope for future me, these turbos break the mold and can last with minimal maintenance. I doubt thats going to happen..but whatever. I buy vehicles with the intention to drive them for 10+ years, kills me to see the complexity.
Well, when you build a race car, you gotta put more into it than just a powerful motor
Sad. Owned a 3rd gen Tacoma. I own a 97 LX450 now. The level of overbuilt in the 80 series is insane. Bought it used for $6K. Originally a $60K price tag in 1997. Its triple locked from factory. These types of Toyotas are still made in the 79 series over seas. We don't get these here in the US. No diesels here either. Hey Toyota, GM, Ford ,Dodge....I don't want your super tech shit. I used to rent 3rd gen Tacomas and 4runners. We would take them wheeling and beat on them without issue.
Maybe Tacoma drivers need a Rt Foot with a " Granny Mode" program. LOL
Like watching your show bro. I remember using emergency brakes on a 2x4 to sort of get a pozzi-traction effect in totally stuck situations where the wheel that spins is braked enough to force the gripping wheel to turn. In this specific Tacoma situation, they had the back locker engaged, but maybe the MTS system was doing some braking magic in the front to simulate a pozzi-traction like effect that was errorfully applying brakes to both sides at the same time, thus causing the driveline ADD to bust. Looking at the video I found it odd that the front wheels were grab-slip pulsing rather than just straight slipping on ice. With all the problems Toyota has been having lately, their price hikes since 2020, it's also possible they're cutting corners on materials and relying more heavily on software to cut down on manufacturing costs.
Yeah it's pretty sad to see most manufacturers are just worried about weight, which reduces strength in everything. When all these new light/underbuilt vehicles have 100k miles on them, I don't think they are going to hold up well compared to slightly older variants.
It's clear that Toyota intentionally built the drivelines as cheap as possible and hoped that software would mask that fact.
Toyota speak: what? You took our 4WD truck four-wheeling? It wasn’t built for that!
I wonder what happened to the other Jack ass , who was called the Toyota Tundra chief Engineer?
I remember him saying that the new Tundra will be a game changer ! Off course it’s a game changer from a Great truck to ….. you get the point
First rule of engineering: if you built it to spec… you under built it. See the silver city bridge for reference
They did not show actually the part that broke on the front differential assembly, for the aftermarket industry to build that same part to withstand that amount of torque!
There are a lot of little parts underneath the A.D.D that could break, because they use an A.D.D for fuel mileage and towing. The Nissan Frontier doesn't have lots of little parts on that side of the half shaft, the trade off is the nissan can't be towed behind an RV or something. I'd take the Nissan tradeoff at this point for a more beefy part.
As a fellow Colorado Trail Boss owner, I was proud Andreas Colorado Trail Boss drove up that same rock without breaking!!
Yeah it seemed to do just fine.
You don't blame the engineers? Who is to blame, the janitor? 😂
Generally the engineers are not allowed to decide how much money is spent/cost on parts etc. They are given parameters to stay within, not directives to build the most reliable vehicle on the road, regardless of cost. The engineers are smart enough to build super reliable platforms, with regulations/corporate greed etc., they are shackled (IMO).
That is a very good point you have there. But they can still design and engineer better and simpler products.
Well they have this engine that can produce the horsepower that the drivetrain can't handle. You have it but we'll change the software so you can't use it. Makes sense....NOT. It's not like that truck was being abused at the time. I'd be afraid to take one off road!
All 4 wheel drive have a failure point. This is all about torque management Toyota miss the mark on their management of the torque. So what I hear Sheldon saying is, they are going to cheap way reprogramming instead of redesign of the failure point.
Translation: were utilizing software to keep our cheap lesser diff from exploding instead of you know making a diff that's strong enough for the job.
I demand to see a fishbone diagram, the 5 Why’s answered in detail, and their A3. Taiichi Ohno would be kicking these guys in the ass if he were still alive
Put a front locker on them with associated beefy front axles. Eliminate that ridiculous electronic control
Flimsy and pathetic. The Chevy passes that same spot with no trouble. They went from overbuilt to undebuilt at a much higher price.
Manufacturer's can now de-tune vehicles through the software. Essentially, you may not get what you thought you were paying for.
I think this just proves they don’t expect anyone to actually use these trucks for what they are marketed for. Attempting to fix an obvious hardware shortcoming with a software update , that is likely going to make it less capable and likely to reduce power, is absolutely BS.
Short-term solution. Look up in some future updated parts for that Tacoma as the mid-term solution. Long-term solution, these new parts will be used in factory. A Tier 1 provider most likely builds those parts for Toyota. It takes time.
This thing has to be built on reallllly close to it's component limits... They had to build a special cooling system for the 4 banger cranked to the limit... they're using software to prevent component failure from torque... what else...
I agree. My guess is they'll dial in the software to prevent failures in a lot of cases, the diff, the transmission, etc. We'll see what long term reliability looks like, so hard to speculate.
@@TheCarGuyOnline ya absolutely can't speculate. And software will do the trick for sure.
You forgot they also had to detune the manual transmission engine because it's on the edge of what it can handle. This truck is a joke! I'll stick with my first Gen Tundra
@@PeterAlfonso ya... Idk. I'm glad I got my frontier and didn't wait the 1 year for this truck. Maybe it'll be reliable and fine... But I'm good.
Cheaper building and high prices = Less people buying the truck. I bought 2021 GMC Canyon days ago. I tried some SR5, but my wife and I disliked the seats( uncomfortable for both)
How you liking the Canyon?
@TheCarGuyOnline We got the Denali. Powerful, comfortable, and beautiful. It was on our budget. We like it a lot!!!!!
I would love a 2wd manual taco. You can see major repairs coming after the warranty is over.
My factory solid axles under my Rubicon are tough as hell!
My friend has a gladiator and loves it, 90k miles so far. Hasn't had any issues.
@@TheCarGuyOnline Many of us in my circle have Wranglers and Gladiators. No issues and they are tough as hell off-road!
Dana 44s aren't anything special and actually too small with anything over 33 inch tires and lockers
@@jp-nd3vd Your opinion. I own two Wrangler Rubicons with 35’s. Been on multiple trails in Moab and nobody is breaking the axles.
Why would a vehicle be able to exceed the stress limits of its components when being used under normal circumstances?
More coverage to cover the fact that it’s built less reliable
To be fair, it sounds to me like it wasn't necessarily the truck's overall torque - it was the traction control system that overcorrected and sent too much power to one wheel. But you're right - Toyotas used to be overbuilt and now they're built cheap with software as the buffer. It's annoying. I've noticed that with the Rav4's AWD system - if you dare to lift a wheel on even a slight incline, the car will just cut the power and say "no way" instead of attempting to push through the obstacle.
Not necessarily too much power, it probably due to the rate of change of power AND braking in close succession. Remember these systems are there to increase traction by automatically applying braking to reduce slippage as well
So I am torn on this topic...knowing all too well about the cost constraints placed on design when mass producing vehicles...and its understandable...however the price point of the vehicles and the "badging" tell a different story. Undersize the driveline in the SR / SR5 / TRD Sport versions - makes sense as those are not "badged" to go offroad...save the money there. For the TRD Off Road version...think they should have overdesigned the driveline...just my opinion.
Also, it was clear that the Chief Engineer was doing a song and dance on the topic...body posture / hand movements / etc...not very convincing if you ask me.
Yeah it's pretty sad what they are building for the price.
3:30 Once the vehicles are in the streets, Toyota can 1) replace parts with stronger parts for a zillion dollars, or 2) put out a software fix that will quickly solve the problem for 99.9% of owners. No surprise which they chose.
The extremely rare situation where you are driving up a steep mountain forest road in the winter. Hmm 🤔! Just build it to be bulletproof. Toyota was unlucky to have this happen on RUclips and a highly respected channel TFL.
Yeah the situation TFL was in specifically is just not that hard to deal with. At least Toyota says "that shouldn't have happened". When you look at how the A.D.D is designed vs. something like the Nissan Frontier which doesn't have an A.D.D, it just seems a bit weak on that passenger side to me.
My BaseSquatch has toothpick sized steering rods. Good thing I don’t do anything technical.
Exactly as I predicted overly aggressive traction control😅
They only have a 1.7% beyond design parameter to failure?
Like WTF
Look at this way
Say the truck develops 300hp then adding an extra 5hp would potentially induce failure
That is nuts
Yup. I said similar in my first video covering this, I thought it was the hammering of the MTS, like a jackhammer on the IC. Funny if they just let the wheels spin and added mechanical lockers, it might actually be more reliable instead of using software and braking system to move power to each side.
I had a 1995 Ford Ranger manual transmission and taught many nieces and nephews about driving a manual. I was harder on my old Ranger than the TFL guys and never had a transmission problem until I hit 129,000 miles and had the transmission rebuilt for $900.00 dollars. This is why I bought a dealer 2023 Toyota Tacoma Trd Off-Road with 10,500 miles. I looked and drove a 2024 Tacoma a lot to like but I don't buy the first or second year of any new vehicle.
I feel the “good old tough Toyotas” are a thing of the past
I am sold! Not buying a new Toyota until I see a change to the entire line.
Instead of all the gizmos and computer gadgets I rather have seen Toyota introduce a new Tacoma that achieved a much better fuel mileage rating and focus on whatever shortcomings the previous model had. The huge price increase will alienate many former loyal customers who simply cannot afford the Tacoma anymore.
I would be embarrassed if I was Toyota. They say it is rare, because most never leave pavement. They bult it so cheaply that it can't even go do basic trails.
Yeah for sure, most folks buy these for commuters. I can't believe how many comments I see in forums or groups saying "I swapped from a camry to the new taco, love it for my commute". Granted, I don't know what they are doing with it but I have a suspicion that trucks are the new commuter sedan, they have been for a few years.