I LOVE fin windsurfing and I don't see any reason why I should start something new when there is still so much to achieve. It's just the best thing in the entire world!
Finally, someone has spoken about a problem I totally agree with! I’ve been windsurfing recreationally for 30 years, and when foils first came out, I was super excited because our spot doesn’t have strong enough winds for me (110 kg here, haha). The moment I heard you could ride with half the wind, I bought a foil on day one… and sold it on day two, LOL. They made it sound so easy, but clearly, it wasn't for me at the time. Three years later, I finally got my hands on an aluminum Starboard Race paired with a Falcon Light 159 Windsurfing board. I rode it for two years, but each year they came out with new foil gear, and it was crazy expensive for a casual rider like me to keep up with. It felt like the products were unfinished because on every end of summer you you could hear the displeasure of drivers who bought new equipment and were not satisfied! So I eventually waited for a few years before investing in a product that made sense. After the Falcon, I bought my first Falcon Foil Board 180, and wow, what a disappointment in quality-two boards, two years, two replacements. Same issue both times: too soft, cracking at the mast insert. In the end, I settled with a Starboard Foil and IQ Foil combo, and I have to say, so far, so good! Loving the ride. I completely agree with your critique that the industry needs to invest in video explanations-what gear works for riders of different weights, what to buy, how to trim. Full support for your video, and I really hope the big brands like Duotone, NP, and Starboard take note of these issues. Big shoutout to all windsurfers out there! 💪
Same weight as you here. 22 years of experience. Year in foiling. I use Patrick 140 slalom windsurf board for foiling , absolutely enough, volume for me and it flights very fine even with my 9 sqr meters sail at 8-10 knots. Really do not see why people are buying boards with volumes like 180 or 230. Have friend with 55 kilogram own weigh, who bought 230 litres, what for?
Very honest... I think the biggest problem in the windsurf industry is, that you can very rarely try before you buy. You read a lot of tests and articles, and you watch a lot of videos. You make a decision, and five days and 2500 euros later your new equipment arrives. And maybe, or maybe not, it will live up to your expectations. If not, your stuck with it and can go for another round after wasting a lot of money on the experiment... Regards Per
Spot on. I know our local shop here in Sydney is very good a doing demo days and lending gear for wingers. But have very limited stuff for us windsurfers.
The wise man xan try before he buys. Find who has it as rental. Bite the cost bullet and rent for a week. While expensive, overall cheaper than costly mistakes.
Very true Per. I end up narrowing what I buy to only what I tried, hoping the mix and match of the bits I liked the most works out. So really the industry should finance test centres / rentals.
Haven't tried foiling. I windsurf on wave gear and slalom gear. I love the contact with the water and the waves. Foiling seems detached from those elements and the basic skills of windsurfing. Yes you get potentially more days on the water, but you also get the hassle of even more equipment. Plus the gear is even bigger than your windsurf equipment. Not everybody drives around in a van.
Or you just get a wing and a board and “rigging” takes 5 minutes. The foil is 4 parts. 3 of which are connected all the time unless I want to swap a foil size. So that takes 2 minutes. Learning how to ride is a different story of course. I windsurfed 20 years since I was a kid in the 80s - I get the feeling you mean. But you haven’t tried foiling, so your take is just ignorant. It feels like your floating. Silent except for the wind. And suddenly every wave is surfable. You want to wing, prone, downwind… every foil sport there is. When I watch the complicate process it’s too much. The foils are very sensitive with this much weight it can’t be fun. With the bulk of the mast and the boom…. It doesn’t look relaxin😢g. I had a van to fit my windsurfing boards and masts. I have 6 wings and 3 board in my pickup bed. With my downwind board I can paddle up in the ocean, wing on a lake in 8mph gusts (or none if you pump). Or strap on my foildrive and efoil on my lake when there is no wind. My normal wing board is 5’3” and weighs 6 pounds. The feeling isnt the same as windsurfing with weed fin. Not close.
I only windsurf with a fin and love cruising into the sunset with my 9.3 sail and feeling direct contact with the water. I tried windsurf foiling once and immediately put it back. The unsightly poop position on the foil board and the higher fall height alone are not interesting to me. To get on the water sooner, wind foiling would probably be better as a supplement, but I'm still concentrating on fin windsurfing. I hope that sails over 8.8 square meters will be available to buy again soon. (I'm 53 years old)
if you tried it only once it is obvious you did not like it :/ It take me 3 years foiling to enjoy it more (much more) than windsurf. You can't say "I don't like it" if you can't use it...
@@mailamaila4384 I didn't even write "I don't like it." I wrote that the fall height and the poop stance when foiling were out of the question for me.That doesn't change in three years of practice.
@@mailamaila4384 for me it's okay but it's a bit like low-wind freestyle imo, something accessory but not the core of wind surfing to me. It's ok but I find it rather limited compared to wave riding and freestyle. Perhaps compared to gliding back and forth with huge sails it can be seen as an upgrade. You can go very fast and go out with less wind and without using 8+ sq metre sails. I think I'm adding a free race foil to the arsenal but yep, for the casuals perhaps foil has contributed to further fragment the market and it's a struggling market as is.
One fine day at Party Beach (Ho'okipa means that), a wave looped about 3 feet over my then 17 foot mast, the wind apparently pausing for inhalation, i pumped like a sailor in the bilge. Resurfacing only somewhat quicker than a Dept of Transportation worker leaning on his shovel, i noticed Poseidon's subtle removal of everything other than the clewand perimeter string of my sail, i consigned it to the depths, never to be found by eye of mortal man through end of season, when, incidentally, many strapping lads had affixed thinfoils, once visible only in the hats of Roswellians, to craft toed by paws into other Jaws. The feeling of contact with water, so like unto being peppered by fisticuffing featherweights for hours, slapboxing, can be wondrously asphaltic when tossed at 35kts plus, eyelids your sole braking mechanisms, bagging out better that Toyota recalls, as your body skips along like a flat rock for endless seconds, (cue Bruce Brown/Sandals theme). Oh, H2O, i gargle thee, though bootied women call, shrill sirens displacing me. And i alone am escaped to tell thee ( i would have said, Call me Ishmael, but none call or Email, nor is my dick moby)
Hello Mario, great video. I've been surfing for over 40 years and haven't tried foiling yet. But I can only recommend anyone who wants an uncomplicated board and sail and wants to get out on the water in light to strong winds to buy a Windsurfer LT. This eliminates the equipment battle and the fun is overwhelming.
I bought a Slingshot package 4 years ago and that was the best decision. Plug and play checks all the boxes for someone like me. The Wizard 125 was extremely easy to learn and enjoy for many sessions. This summer I lost my foil hitting something underwater, foil was old and I didn’t feel sad about it, but looking around shopping I quickly discovered that I am fine with buying the same foil again. Simply because it’s overwhelming looking at all the other options. Also bought the freestyle board from Slingshot that was on insane low price and now I’m having heaps of fun. With board being 5feet long it transformed the same foil to a completely different feeling. Looking at the other guys at the beach with their talks about tails and fuselages and foil numbers is so off putting. Slingshot got it right from the beginning. Plug and play! Works for me every day.
Yes but they got out of windsurf foiling 😢. Also Wizard 125 won't take a Sab Foil without a special adaptor because the box is not deep enough. Standards are important! I also bought the Wizard 114 knowing all that 😂
The truth is most people just need an average sized foil. The madness of 50 different foil combinations and widths and aspect ratios is just for the 1% of people that need the extra little bit. For everyone else? You just need to think about how fast do you wanna go and thats it. Dont over complicate it.
I just bought everything Slingshot from the beginning. Never had anything different. Although my FS board has tracks and I did try my Armstrong wing foil. It worked but I had to step at the very back of the board to get lift.
So Slingshot currently has two generations of foils. The second, Phantasm, is backwards compatable with the first, Hoverglide and much improved in strength and design. That was great! If you are still rocking Hoverglide don’t be shy to try the improved Phantasm lower! You won’t be disappointed. The G series is awsome if you are ready to upgrade to the next level from an Infinity wing! A third generation is coming this Spring but it will not be backwards compatible, and skips the G series for the newer, faster 99 series, which I think is a shame for intermediate riders. There. A small bit of guidance.
I got all in in 2019 with Slingshot. Dialer 130, Hoverglide fwind1. Added Infinity 84 to ride high in light wind, 76 for faster riding in a bit more wind. Only “finned” a handful of times since. I have foiled 23-25 times a year.
Moin Mario, ich als Surfurgestein seit 1982 mit damals Delta Verdränger aus der DDR habe zwar eine ganze Zeit pausiert(Familie, Kinder, Job etc.), jedoch habe ich nie etwas anderes als das klassische Windsurfen im Focus gehabt. Seit 1Jahr bin ich wieder aktiv und finde das Windsurffoiling schon ganz cool, aber ich bleibe meiner alten Linie treu. Habe mir daher auch ohne irgenwelche Hintergedanken ein JP Magic Ride zugelegt und geniesse das schnelle Angleiten, die Stabilität und Schnelligkeit. Es war gut wieder zurück zu kehren und gegen den Mainstram weiterhin mit Finne(die mittlerweile 52cm ist) zu fahren. Ich finde der Tod des klassischen Windsurfens ist nicht nur dem Kiten und allen anderen folgenden Erfindungen geschuldet, sondern auch, weil die Industrie, den Blick für die normalen Surfer verloren hatte und jedes Jahr komplett neue Konzepte, ob Boards oder auch Riggs herausbrachte, die der normale Wochenend und Urlaubssurfer nicht mehr stemmen konnte und wollte. In diesem Sinne:Ich find Finne geil😊🤙😊.
I’m 60. The first thing I ever bought at the age of 13 with my own money was a 1 could’ve been 12‘ Dufour Wing. Me and my best friend learned to windsurf that summer.
Good video. I’ve windsurfed for around 30 years and have tried to get into foiling at the age of 67 without much success. I believe due to the complexity of the equipment that the right way to learn is by taking lessons from experienced foilers although this is very expensive. When I started windsurfing you could be up and going the first day and then learn the nuances over time. Wings and foils and the matching of equipment makes learning on your own difficult. I think one of the best ideas in this video is selling complete packages so you know the equipment all works together. Or maybe at my age I just don’t have the patience. I still do love windsurfing and the contact of my board with the water’s surface. Hopefully I’ll figure this out.
I am 67 now and learned windfoiling few years ago. I found it fun and easier on my body. I first started with a slow and very large foil (Slingshot infinity 99) and found this set up easier to learn. I am also now getting into wingfoil. I noted many windsurfer switching to wingfoil as I believe this will work better for my aging body in the long run.
I have been WS since 1979 and two years ago I started windfoiling, byuing an old SB formula board and an used SB Supercruiser foil. This combo worked fine but I have since then upgraded to faster gear. However, the Supercruiser is a perfect entrance for a newbie since it is easy to get flying with its huge wing (1700 sqcm) in light to moderate windspeed. It is also quite forgiving. Give windfoiling another go and I think you will also join the windfoiling community😊 since you will get so much more hours on the water when there is not enough wind for ws. PS I still enjoy ws when there is more wind so the two disciplines really complement each other.DS
I love windsurfing, and having a foil setup just means I can windsurf a whole lot more often. I did make a lot of expensive mistakes with foiling because there is nowhere to try stuff, and almost gave up. Really glad now that I didn’t, because now that I have it figured out nearly every day can be windsurf day… and not just bobbing around on a giant board with a huge sail, but flying around carving turns with a small lightweight kit. I’m sure there are many good setups out there, but I can tell you with certainty that the Severne Alien and Redwing foil changes everything - especially if you’ve previously struggled to get this figured out. Doesn’t change how much I love riding on the fin… it just means that I never waste an opportunity to be out on the water. As soon as it’s powered enough to lock in on the fin, I’m out there on it.
Totally agree , I have a severe alien with 1400 & 1000 wings , had heaps of fun on it, do yourself a favour though & get a Severne Predator 110 , this board is amazing it is much looser than the alien & I can now foil in 25 to 30 knots with a 3.3 wave sail, I can also use my 7m foilglide on it & sail in 12knots. I still have my alien 120 for cruising around , but the predator will take you to the next level of windfoil freeriding
"Big Windsurf Corp. uses the Public as Beta Testers", I have said that myself so many times. It took me 3 different foils and as many boards to get something functional. I have been windsurfing since 1986. I still prefer the fin BeUT foiling gets me so much quality time on the water that it can't be denied as a valid pursuit of the craft. You said so many truths; like the lack of support for the regular guy, you are on your own buying online. I think it was worse back in '86 with the dealarships selling you the wrong equipmnet like Used car salesmen hitting quotas. You are the only one of us in a positoion to interact with the corporate structure. Be our rep and get Big Corp to earn the money we regular guys are paying them. BYW I Love the Point 7 sails you have in your windsurf videos.
Really interesting video. i live on the east african coast with trade winds for 8 months a year. Kiting is massive here but nobody is doing windsurfing. I plan to open a very small windsurfing business, partly to feed my hobby and have been looking a lot at foiling too. However a couple weeks ago I pretty much made the decision that i wouldn't bother with foiling equipment due to the cost, risk of rental damage, and the feeling that the industry isnt yet ready for mainstream adoption. This video further convinces me to stick with the fin. Thanks!
for me windsurfing has ALWAYS been about the FUN of it all I still use a Mistral Equipe II XR and Fanatic Shark 145 most of my windsurf sessions As I live in a "cold" country ... I build sleds for ice and snow WITH my windsurf sails ... I have spoken with far too many people that tried windfoiling and went back to fin (and these guys were the fastest/best windsurfers at my spots) THIS stopped me from getting on the band wagon Others tried foiling and went to the WING world !! In light winds on the larger lake near us I still use a JP SLW92 with a 10-oh sail and LUV it !! All that to say thanks for the video - gave it a Thumbs UP and hope windfoil AND windsurf become more popular and "average joe windsurfer" friendly lol Noch mals, Herzlichen Dank !!
Thanks for a great video!! I'm in my 60s and started windsurfing on an original with a teak boom. Many years later and 1000s (tens of thousands?) of dollars later transitioned to kite surfing with 2 line ram air and a big heavy board with almost 0 rail! Yikes!! Anyway windsurfing and kite surfing hold many great memories: Lake Ontario, Cape Hatteras, The Gorge, numerous spots in the Caribbean, Cape Town, Western Australia. BUT I truly don't miss the industry's hype and dodgy marketing practices. It's been years since I kited and am content to take a pass on wings and foils and focus on kayak fishing!!
Totally agree with you Mario, there is a huge lack of accountability on the side of the surfing brands and manufacturers. The very high prices that we pay for these "high tech" gears is absolutely not backed up by an equivalent follow up-after sales-customer service. You're right, it should be fun, not another headache. Thanks for your videos, keep up the good work.
I have waited 5 years to buy a foil for sport to get developed by the brands now after 4 year buying beginner NP foil with a JP freeride foil I recognise none of my sessions are a like, each time I have a different feeling on the ride, sometimes stiffer sometimes wobbly, etc etc. I do not know if this is a production issue but again I have never struggled with an equipment before like this and each time you think the problem is you. Thanks a lot for making this video, I hope the media also take this serious issue into consideration for the next generation of windsurfers/foilers. Keep up the great work 🏆
First and only wind foiling board i have bought / tried has been Tabou Fifty 125 litres which is 232 cm long and 76 cm wide with GA foil 1500 front wing and has been fantastic, no complaints. Also good for windsurfing with fin, very similar to Tabou rocket wide 120 litres which was my previous board and also fantastic. I'm 72 Kg. This Tabou Fifty set up is ideal in about 15 to 18 mph when i would need to go 8 m2 but instead go with much lighter 5.6 m2 Freek. I also have Duotone 7.4 m2 F-Pace which is also great in approx 13 or 14 mph. I think i lift off sooner / easier / less effort than the wingers i see am my local spot. On the other hand i think the wingers get on better in stronger wind and more deeply wavy water. My set up is best with smooth swell or regular wave fronts, difficult to gybe in random deeply wavy and choppy conditions. [ edit- actually i forgot i got a Slingshot 115 litre freestyle foil board 188 by 71 cm and tried it with the GA 1500 hydrofoil and it was tricky knowing where to position the foil; so was very nervous and way more difficult to sail. The sail mast was much closer to foil mast. Will try again when i get better at foiling ]
Thank you for reaffirming my thoughts on equipment. Just this year, I sold my wind foiling gear for next to nothing and went to wing foiling. I still have my windsurfing gear and enjoy it most! Also if I may say, the problem with used equipment prices today are because of the manufacturers introducing products to the public before they are ready to be released. If I pay retail on a new foil that just doesn't work well with anything, then I end up selling it for a third the cost. It has trickled down into used boards, booms, sails and everything else.
I started wind foiling with an f4 foil and just like you I had the mast explode at the fuselage and shear the foil off. At that point I just started winging and the new downwind boards and high aspect foils from axis have been great. In light wind I really enjoy sailing my 40 year old mistral superlight, it rails well upwind and planes nicely and the upwind angles are excellent so I can explore the whole bay, not just reach back and forth. On a windy day I definitely prefer the fin on a slalom board.
As a normal guy trying to learn windfoiling I agree with a lot of the things you mention. I'd say you are in the position to test a few freeride foils/boards (even if you don't sell all brands in your shop) for the users. How easy to learn on/stable are the foils? What is the wind speed a given foil/board needs for takeoff without huge pumping efforts? What width and volume should I choose for my weight? What sail sizes? This would certainly be a video with a lot of views. The Kümpel freeride foil guide ;)
I tried to learn in 2019 with a 130 liter Slingshot and the full 35” foil mast. I crashed hard and often as I rigged for normal windsurfing. I quickly ordered the Foil Academy set of three mast sizes. Foiled the 12” taxi the rest of the summer: no crashes. Moved up to the 24” mast in 2020. Foiled higher with a few crashes. Got an Infinity 84 front wing. Wind Foiled the 84 the rest of 2020 and 2021 on the 30” mast, free foiling for the entire length of the lake. Now I am on the Infinity 76 foiling faster and jibing 5.6-7.0 sails. 88 kg, I need 12-15 knots to foil.
I have subscribed to Windsurfing magazine, Windsport and Windsurfing Now. Learned lots. I started on a Slingshot Dialer 130, then I found a 2018 Fanatic Gecko 133. It works with my Slingshot Hoverglide Package. It’s not Fast Fast, but it’s plenty of fun.
Great video, very interesting debate. I would also like to point out that windsurfing (foil or fin) is a sport that takes a long time to learn, especially for those who are far from lakes or the sea. As a result, there are a lot of people with an intermediate level! And finding good, easy-to-handle equipment is a real challenge.
absolute! theres so much crap, crap industry XD i wonder why theres not a reasonable sail, with a variable size. i want to see how that stuff evolved and of course, the modern sails are THE optimum shape like a bird wing. but theres always an alternative, with modern materials to do sth different... no real sailor would switch sails all the time, it is so ridicolous (but of cause we still love it)
Thanks for sharing your experiences! I am a fin windsurfer and haven’t tried windfoil. I have tried wingfoiling this year, and was tempted now to try wind foiling, but feel less interested now.
Danke Mario für den ehrlichen Einblick! Bin seit ca. 4 Jahren mit eigenem Material unterwegs und habe auch schon mit dem Foil geliebäugelt. Jetzt weiß ich es doch erstmal sein zu lassen. 😀 Hoffentlich finde ich nächstes Jahr mal die Möglichkeit eine Finnenberatung in der Windlounge zu machen. Liebe Grüße aus der Lausitz 🙂
A very similar thing happens in Surfing - little to zero ways of people finding out how to buy the right surfboard - or even one that is good. I think you have a great opportunity and platform to educate people coming over to foiling and its huge water time benefits.
Surfing = Wellenreiten? Sure not, surfers know what to buy. Compared to windsurfing material war Surfing is pritty chilled. I windsurfen many years but its too expensive with less Emotion outcome. Foil is just another desruption from the essentials. More bigger faster... for me i enjoy slow down, less material, more nature. And by the way one essential part of Surfing ist the gliding feeling and I not feel that on a foil.
Slingshot did the best for freeride foils that I saw. Much less difficulty in tuning than other gear I've used, and they had some videos. Unfortunately, I don't know if they are still making windsurfing foil gear or not. They put almost everything on sale for very cheap, including board and foil packages. Would love to try next gen race gear but already have lots of money in slingshot and starboard foil sets, which are totally different experiences between freeride and race foil. Great points in this video.
I really relate with the narrative here I bought a board+foil package from JP/NP first time it got released. The foil just didn't work - very limited lift, super heavy, had a mast replaced for defects. I changed to a Naish foil which was way better, but limiting with conditions as the fuselage didn't work well with a large front wing. I now have a Moses/SABFoil which works really well. I hope there were testing centers for foils .
Great to watch this. This is exactly why I stopped foiling- the foil was completely wrong for me and just did not work in my “foil ready” free-ride board. I have fun on the fin, up to 8.5. The foiling just wasn’t fun, it was just a struggle.
Great video! Saying what everybody thinks but dont have courage to tell, i foil on the past but came back to fin.... Foil and the industru of windfoil for me sucks!!...FIN FOREVER ❤️
Some well considered thoughts in the video. I’ve been trying to master foiling for 2 years, and am using a Starboard Freeride 150 foil board. I initially bought a Supercruiser foil, thinking it would be easy for light conditions - no! I found it terrible and with the bevelled rear wing (before the shim version), tuning it the same way twice was impossible. I switched to a Starboard Freeride foil earlier this year and have made more progress. But again, through talking to others, I have switched the rear wing from the 500 supplied to a 330. It’s more controllable in gusts. Bottom line - much of my tuning is by trial and error and talking to others with the same gear (often over RUclips to people on other continents!!). I like Starboard as a brand and feel some loyalty to them, however as you say, they could do so much more for the ‘average windfoiler’ to enhance the experience and in turn help promote the sport.
I have tried windfoiling on my Jag 125 4 years Aygo. It was no succes. And I was still struggling in light wind sessions with my 7,8 Duotone S-type. The last two years I have been changing my sails - all to the new light weight sails from North Sails. In smaller sizes 4,2-6,2 The X-over and 7,7 and 8,6 in the FreeRace. It has totally changed my windsurfing routine. With the FreeRacers I can go out in very light winds and have a great session. With the FreeRacers I sail up with the guys on foil-gear. I think that light weight equipment will revolutionise windsurfing in the light wind sessions 🤙🏻😄
Hi Mario, great comments from you side. In several cases this hast happened in windsurfing in the same way. In many cases now these companies just did the same what always do. I remember 20 years we had issues with cambers of one of the most popular sail companies. The boss in Germany clearly stated our "No issues, you rigged it wrong". We went to Netherlands and in a shop the importeur of that company has been. He said it is known and you just need to cut the camber a bit. It still took years to change it generally. The board division of this company of course had years later inflatables. I wrote that with my 70kg I'm not able to reach to pump to the recommend pressure. The boss again answered that his 7 years old child can easily do this. In the next surf magazine they showed an easy going thinner pump. Why didn't Just tell me that? I started windfoiling with a JP FSW with 94L it has been a compromise and and it is not bad, because I could my equipment. But at the same time it is just light wind playing and I'm still changing to fin as soon as possible. Jochen
I agree with you. I do two kinds of foiling freeracing with a huge board and a huge sail, and freeride foiling with tiny wave sails, focusing on riding swell and just playing around - in strong winds (Greg Glazier is the best ambasador for this kind). The later feels very similar to what I would do on a wave boards - and I am sure lots of windsurfers would enjoy that - but it is hardly markeded. To me foiling enables me to have fun in places with caotic chop and gusty wind. The foiling I see in pwa just puts me off - it is too extreme,,,,but that is where I feel most of the focus is. It is kind of like when easy allround slalom boards such as fanatic rat were replaces with super narrow copellos and you had to be on national level in order to do a good jybe,
Im with you on wind foiling small sails and just having fun. I have tried IQ foils and such, 8.5 sails and above, even though it amazing and efficient and goes at nothing, it’s too big. Currently I only have wave sails. Foil if wind is low and bump and jump when it picks up. I also started winging but prefer my Slingshot FS 115 better for play and cruising.
I used to wait for actually windy days to go out windsurfing. With the foil, I can sail much more often. In the old days, I would go out on a longboard with a daggerboard and kind of limp around the lake. Now I am flying high.
One of the best opinions about the windsurfing industry I ever listened to. I absolutely agree on everything, especially the Beta products, a way to let pay R&D to customers (or shops). I still love windsurf when it is really windy, but from 12 to 18 knots wingfoil is so much easier (a small board, a foil and a wing, without any complication about tuning). But they're trying to make it more complicated...
Very good points, especially at the beginning of foiling days you needed deep pockets to progress and keep up with all the gear changes, which now is pretty much useless. Many people got disappointed and just never bothered. Now the level has been so high that there is no motivation or connection to start learning, feels like completely different sport. Same story, spent big buck on my big slalom stuff 85wide board/ carbon fins/ sails etc. Bought also a SB alu foil and the slalom foil ready board just wouldn't fly. Had to take up the loss replace the board with a foil dedicated to only enjoy the descipline. Also the sails are another sticking point. I use 2 or 3cam freerace sails which work well with foil, with less downhaul and more outhaul, but all this knowledge was gained with lots of trial.
A very interesting video Mario which makes many intelligent and valid points about the windfoiling journey that many of us mortals have taken and the direction the Windsurfing industry is going I started 3 years ago on a Fanatic Falcon Lightwind 159 with a Starboard GTR Foil and Duotone S and E Types. I’ve found the GTR to be a great first foil. No complaints about the quality and the board was quoted as ‘Foil Ready’ and found it to be a great board to learn on with no defects developing in the foil box. It’s been a slow but enjoyable learning curve but there are very few sailors at our lake that have decided to go down the windfoiling route but there is now a very healthy & enthusiastic winging community and sadly a rapidly declining windsurfing community
I totally agree with you, Mario. I have encountered the same problems, spent money, and been disappointed. Recently I switched to a racing foil and I found it much easier. I have some issues because my board and foil come from different sale marques (eg, JP board with RRD foil) and I am not willing to spend more money to buy more equipment. What you mentioned is absolutely true and I thank you very much for this video.
I waited until 2019 to try foiling on holiday and got flying 5 mins …. Eventually after a year I bought a naish hover and Nash ws foil …so ..a package zero regrets and to date no equipment issue….i might be one of those rare free riders you mention as I know my foil is not fast 24 knots is fastest it’s been it’s the light wind windsurfing on a gusty lake that i wanted the foil for. Great video it helps the brands as they probably don’t get all the feedback so might not be aware. Feedback I would also give is keep it simple and have common standards where possible.
My experience: In my hometown light winds are prevailing. I have Patrick slalom windsurf board which bought for 1800 euro back in 2021, it is foil ready, Windsurfed it 3 years, and because I am stingy guy bought 400 euro Gong Foil, just replaced its frond wing with 1500 better series font wing. What I can say is that combination is just perfect, I cruise normally with 6.7 sail, it was 9.00(when used same board with fin) I just feel super comfortable with foot on straps hooked on harness and when wind is steady 14-15 knots comfort is unique. I feel like I am in my sofa at home with beer in hand. Soo- 2.40meters long board is not a problem at all for entering in the foiling , 400 euro GONG foil flies just fine and can be used also as entry for winging. I am sure dedicated windsurfing board is better, but also foils ready windsurf boards are excellent solution, so not to spend 1000 and plus euro for dedicated board, at least at the beginning. Most guys just want to try foiling, like me. I just tried, loved it and now I only foil. Haven't used fins since 5 months. Also on annual basis I normaly do 20-23 sessions yearly. This year because of foil they are 33 sessions already saved in my watch - pretty good year for me! So my advice for those with foil ready boards- Just buy cheap foil and try, if you love it, stay with it, if you do not - find someone to sell back cheap foil, and keep up with fin
Thank you for your video. Everything has its time. One should be careful when traders, producers or sponsored athletes call something "destroyed". The new product (foil, wing) brings more sales. Windsurfing was already behind snowshoeing in the sports ranking, so a marginal sport. The full windsurfing beginners courses I saw in the summer on Fehmarn-Baltic Sea give me hope. The music LP was also already dead and has a great revival. As long as something still brings as much fun as windsurfing, it will never be "destroyed".
I've had a relatable journey - bought one of the first foils available in New Zealand (N Pryde) and sailed on a freeride board, moved on to a Manta (had some quality issues) which I still use, but it does feel like a lottery and I've (possibly) wasted money on trying unknown combinations. Thanks for this - not sure if it helps me specifically but does put things in perspective. p.s. I foil most of the time but when I do back to the fin it still rocks, and sometimes it's nice to just switch boards and use the same sail if the wind changes.
I watched the whole way through, which is saying something for me. Loved your "struggly journey" comment. I’m and old school windsurfer from the 80’s, now wingfoiling. Keep the good work up Mario.
Nice video very clever, love it. I started with alpine foil and I’m,still with it, direct contact by phone with the designer for advice, very versatile, I did my air jibe with it and not the fastest but 24-25kt with 12 to 15 kt of wind, perfect for me for a 1200 wing. Love it !
Started out fin only. Got into foiling about two years ago, never looked back. I got the gunsails freeride foil. Shimming the backwing is the only thing I did and it's fast enough for me, plus it goes around the jibe first. The aluminium mast is a bit heavy, but apart from that, highly recommended.
I have been windsurfing for more than two decades, and I’ve noticed that many hard-core windsurfers are switching to wing foiling. These are the people I would have never expected to leave windsurfing. Being close to your father’s age, I’ve heard from others that wing foiling is easier on the body. Wingfoil is not attractive to old people since I note that many talented windsurfers are still having a lot of fun with wing foiling. As you mentioned, the ease of carrying equipment is also a significant plus. There are also many other options with wing foiling, such as riding waves, downwinding, foiling without wing once up, and using power on low-wind days to support wing foiling extending days on water etc. This all looks very positive to me, and I’ve decided to add wing foiling to my list of fun activities, alongside windsurf foiling. I don’t blame the companies for selling their products while this field was evolving. I believe they received a lot of feedback on their suboptimal technology, but I don’t think they were doing it on purpose. Wing foiling has also benefited from the evolution of windsurf foils and still evolving. For example, would you blame Armstrong for their version 1 foils compared to current outstanding new versions; similar evolution is also happening on the wing side that many of the first generation of wings are not really as efficient as the new ones such as having much better canopy much better shape, different versions of booms, the lightness of the material, etc. it’s both way for customers and the companies that we are partly paying for their R&D so that we can have much better product. Overall, wingfoil is bringing more people into water sport which was not possible with windsurfing since it is significantly harder to reach to level ie plaining in short amount of time. You mentioned packaging for Windsurfing to make it easier for customer to make decision. I agree with the notion, however it is going to be significantly more expensive compared to the wing foil packages. It is also my opinion that the range of wind is limiting for the Windsurfing since one may need several different sails to cover different wind range, which is not the case for wing foil. It is a fact that we as a windsurfing community to accept that wingfoil by its nature better to bring more people on water. I am somewhat concerned that since the people interested in a windsurfing as diminishing that will be reflected on the cost of equipment.
The biggest problem with foiling is the complete lack of compatibility between brands. Next you have compatibility problems within brands. In some cases they change the entire connection systems every two years and nothing is backward compatible and they stop providing spare parts for older systems. So when you break a part like the mast or fuse you left with a pile of expensive gear that you can no longer use. Add to that a confusing range of front wing options making it near impossible even for an experienced foiler to figure out what works best for them. And of course because there is crazy range of wings most shops can't afford to hold a large selection in stock let alone offer them as a demo. My guess is foiling, especially wing foiling, will go the way of SUPping. We are currently in the middle of the hype cycle. A lot of people switch from SUpping and Kiteboarding/ Windsurfing to Winging. They get to a certainly level where they can get from A to B, jibe and back to A fairly quickly but then can't progress any further, get bored and move onto the next thing. We've seen it with kiteboarding and SUP. Foiling with be the same.
One of your best videos in my opinion. Big shoutout. The part about foil-ready boards is new to me. I just bought one of these, also because I want to get into windsurf foiling at some point. Very disappointing that it's not working well. In fact I was very much missing any content on RUclips that test foiling on foil-ready windsurf boards.
Very very interesting, I hope some brands will watch this video and try some initiatives to improve the situation. Yes starting foiling with windsurfing is crazy today, brands are not focused on average people and that's a mistake I think which will impact next years with less and less people wanting to try this. There is a clear lack of ressources, and I would like to add that finding a school or somewhere to learn windsurf foiling is almost impossible now so you need to start alone in the death valley...I fully agree the result is a switch to wing where brands are focused on average people with plenty of resources and schools. Thanks a lot for your video and let's hope for an improvement 🎉
I use a slingshot Wizard 105l with a severne Red Wing (Alu mast), you can get both together far below 2k€. I Always use a 5,2 freestyle Sail and can have fun in 12 to 15 knots, when flying also in 9 knots, when everybody else is using 8qm with fin, Makes fun
Great video. Reminds me a lot of the early 90s where the industry was obsessed with ultra high end slalom gear and shops were selling 5/6/7 cam slalom sails and crazy fast but awful to sail boards to everyone irrespective of ability and conditions. What is sad is how many people have bought inferior foil gear in the last 10 years and just given up. Windsurfing has always been too expensive. Foiling has made it worse.
Could't agree more. The WS industry is about to make the same mistake again. Another thing that really annoys me is that even though there are set "standards" e.g. dimension of a Deep Tuttle Box, each and every brand still makes there own version of it which prevents "interchangeability" between the brands. I have a JP Hydrofoil board which I really like but my Starboard foil does not fit without a lot a wiggling and tilting of the foil mast to get it to sit snuggly in the foil box without damaging the nuts and screws.
Honest reviews like in a car magazine. Like this sail is good but the materials are less durable. It can be overwhelmingly complicated for people who just start windsurfing and look for new equipment. No adverts but straight reviews. Good video and great topic 👍
I agree. Luckily I took the advice of my friend Casey Treichler (Reef Warrior boards) and went the windsurf wave foil (wwf) style using GoFoil gear. Since 2019, no hassle and lots of fun using nothing bigger than my 4.8 wavesail.
A single brand I'll stick to and openly support because it stands out from the rest. Makes a point of keeping compatibility year over year. Actually has experience in pro gear design AND manufacturing. Targets now the average Joe wanting top quality, no longer just the pros. Controls manufacturing quality and cost by doing it all in house, not in Asia. Sticks to what they do best: foils. Makes a point of keeping a direct customer relationship, staying a medium size brand. Unanimously supported by the top RUclipsrs of its home country. Offers the best price/quality ratio in the wingfoiling industry with their Modular series: AlpineFoil ❤
I really enjoyed your critique. All these sports have different markets...If I sailed on a lake, harbour or somewhere else with lighter unpredictable wind, I'd try windsurf foiling. I'm a coastal sailor in small waves, and I prefer jumping and tricks to reaching up and down. I therefore started winging for light winds as it can progress into simple freestyle. Also, I see a lot of older people winging....it's less brutal on the body and all the gear is lighter and takes up less storage space. I'm 52 and I see winging as an investment for my later 60s/70s to keep me on the water.
Excellent points - This is also how a sport dies out. Wide boards helped so many new people get into windsurfing from the 2000's, but foils are creating all these hurdles: the industry needs to make it easier to get onto foils.
I started on a Slingshot foil and Board Wizard. That was perfect for freeriding. But i love racing. So now until 23 knots I am on the iq foil and Slalom foil sails. From 25 knots on I am still on the iq foil with a 4.2 or 4.5 wave sail. The iq foil is a real allrounder for freeriders and freeracers. I hit 26-27 knots even with the 900 front wing. Its super easy and stable. The 650 Frontwing is good when fully powered. And its plug and play. No need for huge adjustment stuff.
i sold my foil and board recently mostly because this. most freeridefoils today is old locked to one maybe two winds that wont be compatible to next model so when they make next model and you cant buy any spare wings if something brakes. it should be a standard fitting like the finbox, use whatecer fuselage,mast and wings ypy want. it would make the industry more flexible, compatitive, less expensive for the users and for the long term better
Thanks for video :-) ... One of my dream was to foil ... I wanted to do foil jibe ... I bought second hand Futura 110l with 1100cm Freeride foil from Starboard. It was pretty good for foiling but I was not able to even start with jibe. Because when I put my leg just in front of back strap I landed. I decided to upgrade because I was not sure it is possible/easy to do foil jibes. So I decided to sell it and buy second hand IQ foil 900cm with IQ 85 board. Now it is much easier to free ride with it. I love to use 5.9 2004 wave sail with it. I also do WingFoiling and love it. I probably will keep both for next year. I like the speed of WindFoil and performance. For the winter I will start with pumpfoil, because I have a great small dam without wind 100m from my office ... Simply said foiling is addiction...
Spot on Mario, thanks! It's neither easy nor cheap and insufficiently documented by the manufacturers, but I still love foiling ❤ My foil history goes like this: NP Glide Wing, Recharge, F4 Course Bundle, Severne Red Wing with more FW's, Phantom R lots of fuses and wings, Patrik AEON TI with more wings. On the boards side I started with Patrik 145 Free foil then JP Hydrofoil 133, Severne Alien 125, Future Fly 187 both the white and the red version, Phantom R78 and now I'm on Phantom R85 and R91. The two most "honest" foils in my opinion is the Severne Red Wing and the Patrik AEON they both "deliver the goods as promised" so to say 🤟
What a great honest video about the subject haha! Thanks for it and Nice job :) I definitely agree with many of your points. I purchased a Neilpryde RS:one convertible as a first foil gear also for fin and it's definitely not made for foiling! I was having fun but couldn't ever lay back as the pro did and couldn't understand why... After 1 year my dad and I purchased a fully foil dedicated board with also the select foil, and that was it, straight away stable flight, we could lay down as the pro did and accelerate! I was relived to see that it was not my skill level but actually the gear!! 50/50 fin and foil board was really a big mistake as you already explain! And as a tip, I would recommand also to purchase race foils, also for beginners or just people willing to cruise because they are well developped as Mario said, stiffer which makes them easier to ride also, and with big wings they are really fine! The top finition for the board is not necessary as long as the shape is the same as the slalom guys... And finally I purchased fully foil dedicated race sails (point7 F1SL)and it was another game changer... So after 5 years of going with some gears as finally understand well hoy foiling and the gear works and found the right set up and settings, but it was worth it! For the sail however I feel like having foil freeride sail is perfect if you want just to cruise as they are way easier to handle than the 4 or 3 cam race foil sails... And about the sails, it's time for the brands to go for a 1 slalom sails that do both as Nils said in one of his videos... Because having all the quiver in double is just not affordable... I use my 6.7 F1SL as a fin sails and foil sail and it works perfectly for both, but it is from 2022 and at that time is had a bit more length in the outhaul... I think that it would make the system way easier for every one! The pro riders would also like to have 1 sail for all to reduce the amount of gear to carry and to set up! Another tip would be to stick to the brand settings and not apply settings that you saw people from other brand use because the brands don't have the same factory settings!!! I have AHD board with AFS foil and the mast rake is already positively set as a factory setting. At the time every one was talking about foilbox rake shim so we tried but it wasn't useless as the right setting was the original one, However, the foil to ride fine, depending on your preference needs from 1 to 3 schim on the back wing. But this is not written anywhere on the website, I had to ask people on the forums to get this information... Which makes it complicated... People often come to me and ask about my settings but as they don't have the same brand this piece of information is useless for them and could put them in the wrong direction about the tunning... FInally try if possible to by the same foil and board brand for the reason I explained above... Because they have been developped together. About the wing, I don't think that the windsurfing industry has a lot to do in the new hipe about wingfoiling... And wingfoiling gear also tend the get super complecated with way to many options... Some friends also told me that is crap how it's explained, with too many option, and I often see people with the wrong gear for them.... I think it's just a new way of enjoying water and something new to try! I love it but definitely not as much as windsurfing, as you said the feeling is absolutely not the same... I have friends that went from windsurfing to wingfoiling and that now wants to get back to windsurfing again because windfoiling is getting boring they said, nothing better that a good blast on the slalom gear or jumping and curving in the waves on the fin!
I saw what happened with windsurf equipment and kite as the sports developed there was no way I was going to be an early foil adopter, and now after seeing this video I’m so glad I didn’t foil yet. The marketing videos right from the early days up to now is so great and compelling I still will try it for sure, but there is a giant disconnect between what I have actually seen on the water and this. Sadly when someone asks me what windsport to try and they aren’t sure I always say wingfoiling, and that is from a commited lifelong windsurfer.
Hi, I think you pretty much nailed it with your insights. One major point which you highlighted is the 'package' thing. In general the position of a finbox is just no good t o put a foil in, it's too far back and you have to put too much back foot pressure to get up and this will also make it near impossible to jibe. I started windfoiling almost 8 years ago with Horue, and guess what; I bought a package: Horue Vini and aHorue tiny board (2.10m) because this was a whole new thing, I knew no one else who was foiling, I saw their freeride/freestyle clips and knew: this stuff works. So if it didn't work for me it would be me, and not the equipment. Because my focus was freeride/freestyle this was a very good combination. But apparently not for you, because you were focussed on 'racing', which the Horue foil wasn't designed for, and you didn't have the right board for it. I stuck with that same foil (well indeed an upgrade to a stiffer mast after 1.5 years) for about 4 years, and never encountered a (race-) foiler that got on foil earlier or could stay on it longer than me unless he had at least to 3 to 3.5 sqm bigger sail, so disagree on the 'race-foil is easier and gets going earlier thing... it just comes down to having the right board with the right foil for what you want to do (so indeed packages, or boards and foils that are developped 'together'). And indeed in the 'early' days the 'major' brands just huried to get 'a foil' on the market that was pretty lame in general. I threw away my 8.5sqm sail and now use my freestyle (and a big 6.4m² power wave sail) to foil on any small gusty lake almost 2.5 times more days out on the water... cause I'm cruising and even jumping on my 6.4 sail in conditions where I would not have been able to get going for more than 50m at a time (or at all) with my 8.5 sail and a 122liter slalom board... Good job with your video, keep it up!
You’re absolutely right. Someone should create a review channel that provides only honest feedback, with all the information about how products truly hold up, along with what the community says about them. However, I understand it might be difficult to get the materials if the outcome could negatively impact the company. But in that case, they should focus on making better products.
Hello Mario, you're right: the equipment is expensive and as a foil beginner I don't know what kind of board and foil I should get. Do I need a board, which is shaped like a foil slalom board, why are freeride boards with foil suitability not suitable for foiling, are crossover boards suitable, to what extent can you drive straight ahead with a freestyle foil board, what kind of foil do I need (mast, etc). I would be very happy about a tutorial from you, where you might also test a freestyle foil board or work out the differences. As a beginner, you are simply overwhelmed with the selection. Unfortunately, slalom foil boards are also very bulky. Thank you for your videos and keep it up!!!
Hi Mario, great summary, good ideas and constructive criticism. I‘m surfing since 1988 and still having fun with that fin stuff. Additionally I started wing foiling last year and have some success and fun this year. Still a beginner low aspect ratio foil with Aluminium mast, fuselage and carbon foil wings. This and a huge beginner wing foil board with 170 liters brings fun on the lake or the sea also. You must try different stuff. So I was at the Wing foil festival at Fehmarn island. There you will find mostly no 100 percent beginner material, but you can try different combinations. That was an amazing experience. For windsurf foiling, I‘m also thinking about to try that next year maybe. Regarding prices: all hobbies are expensive if you need gear for it, but starting with a used material or with material from last season could also help to save some money. And a good and real advice from an expert like you or at other shops, this will lead to success hopefully. At least every brand does different designs, changing the following year and the wings, fuselage, masts from last year are not compatible. This reminds me to the early years of windsurfing, where each brand has its own extension and mast plug system. Incompatible to other brands. Why not thinking about to have that easier for customers. If they are getting better more easily, because of better support by the brands itsself, they will buy the next level of stuff / foil, etc to have more fun. It could be so easy. So your ideas for creating live content, is very good! And having cheaper stuff, but good for beginners or restarters of the sport. Watertime is the thing for watersport enthusiasts!! Thank you for your promotion of the sport. It is always fun with you and your dad. Kind Regards Marco
the best vidéo i ve ever seen, relating the REAL difficulties we actually meet in the windfoiling planet , as a simple freerider ; i can confirm, from france, all you re taking about is the reality... i would have been happy to satisfy you by writing my opinion in german but my level is as poor as my windfoil practice.😁
Very interesting. Live in a light wind area and started wingfoiling two years ago. Works great but i miss the sail. Only a very recent article in Surf-magazin gave me the idea to start windfoiling to be able to use the sail again. Prefer old school freestyle and was surprised how little information about that is out there. But I'm pretty sure I will try it, because i managed to find a few (a FEW) videos on easy foilstyling😊
So true. I’m on my fourth foil. Reasonable happy at the moment. The foils prior to this were rubbish. Only due to discovering the Severne Redwing foil and Alien board whilst renting it in Prasonisi I finally had that awesome feeling on effortless cruising and jibing on the foil.
seit über 40 jahren windsurfer, seit 5 jahren windfoilen mit slingshot matos....ganz egal ob windsurfen/foilen ausstirbt und ich der einzige auf dem wasser bin...mir machts tierisch spass und das ist das wichtigste. nebenbei gibts soviel letztjähriges oder gebrauchtes material um auch die kosten übersichtlich zu halten... wer nicht 2 linke hände hat kann das meiste selber reparieren und somit seinem matos zu langer lebenszeit verhelfen.
Those Y25 foil sets from RRD with M6 screws 😅. The mast was wobbling all around, the fuselage with the foils lays deep in the lake of Como. That “free ride” set was a nightmare, it was impossibile to control
Great video. Very insightful. So many good points you make. Windsurfing foiling missed the boat because of all the things you say. I loved Windsurfing but Windsurfing foiling didn't look good. Wing foiling got there stuff sorted quicker and took the market. Wing Foiling is easier to get good at from the start. The Windsurfing foiling gear might finally be good now but a wingfoiler isn't going to change to a Windsurfing foiling. Nobody new to the sport decides to become a Windsurfing foiler. With Wing Foiling many people from other water disciplines, through to no sailing experience are taking it up . More importantly the ones that take it up stick with it and love it. Unfortunately Windsurfing foiling now is only a niche market. Great work on your presentation. Sucked in to the Windsurfing companies. I love wing foiling the majority of the days but when I go Windsurfing that is still super fun as well. Enjoy.
I have windsurfed for 40 years (!), but I essentially quit 2-3 years ago for several reasons, including medical (back injury). I have been sponsored by several brands, including Quatro and Goya. I've sailed many of the prominent places in the world, from Keeps to the Cape, from Tiree to Klittmoler. So, my experience should count for something. Throughout all those years, it always surprised me how brands primarily developed for the top end and much less for the low end. Great for me, but not for your average Joe. Equipment was always too technical and challenging to master. However, that leaves folks stranded, disillusioned, and frustrated. Moreover, the money is made at the low, not the high end, from a pure volume perspective because most users are at the low end, only a few at the high end. The latter is a niche, like a luxury car, whereas the former is your everyday driver, like a Toyota Camry. Car brands know their business and focus on the former, so should windsurfing. The high-end will take care of itself. So focus less on gear for Braw, Siver, and the like, who can take care of themselves, and more on gear for John and Mary, so to speak. New gadgets like foils, paddles, etc are just gimmicks that take away from the real underlying issue and suffer the same problem as outlined in the video.
Can't agree more. Went thru similar journey, tried boards like old Falcon (no way), racing Goya (had to modify straps), Starboard Futura (what is actually good board for windfoil). Ended up purchasing JP windfoil board, what a positive surprise. Foils: Started to learn on 1st gen RRD - it was simply horrible, so soft, so wobbly. I wanted to progress so bought Severne RedWing - such a difference. I recommend for beginners/intermediate. Now I want something faster and also suitable for wing - still finding out what to buy. Sabfoils looks great but terribly expensive. Maybe Duotone has learned how to do it right, but I cant test it- so far away from nearest dealer/test center. I need advice what to buy but test videos are so rare and mostly biased by rider's experience.
Good topic, very much what I feel about windsurfing brands. It became a milking industry with no point of entry to new gear for low budget surfers. The new boards are fragile and delaminate after some years. Would have loved to try out foiling but the fear of hassle takes out the fun of surfing.
Thanks for the feedback! However I disagree about the "milking" - barely anyone in this industry makes relevant money, even the big brands. I totally agree about your critique regarding the board quality, thats not good. But to be fair, its only a few % of boards that are like this. You can for sure try foiling, just do some good research on what equipment works and its easy. Just for people without any clue, its almost impossible.😅
@@MarioKuempel The milking part refers to the falsly engineered and priced products. A freeride board in my opinion should be way more bulletproof for less money, instead of being light and fragile. For me example, as an intermediate windsurfer from east europe (and believe me, we have way more broke mofos out here than me :D) 1500 Eur for a freeride board - 1000 for a 2-3 year old used one - is just way too much in this part of the world. And if you ding it once at the beach, its already damaged and needs repair. Ok, get the nose protector - for 200 eur more... See my point? Why not make it durable and longer lasting from the get-go for the ones who don't need a Starboard GO anymore but don't have the skill to blast over 45 kmh yet, or they sometimes catapult while doing it. Foiling the same. 2500-3000 for the latest board? 1000 for a used one which is 3-4 years old and maybe not good with the foil. I've been watching you guys from DE for several years now, reading on the topic, asking the local foilers about their opinion - still don't see the clear path. Still don't see the foil pack on the market which in one unit will cover from beginner to intermediate without spending more money on wings, masts, etc... And keep in mind, we don't have shops that support try out sessions. You just buy blindly with the hopes and dreams. And marketing BS. :D Don't get me wrong, I'm a die hard windsurfer and willing to spend time and money on a hobby I'll do until the grave. I'll understand that these things need a lot of labour and design, R+D to reach the shops - and are pricy for this reason. But here, in this part of the world - it is a very-very serious problem. I don't think it should be a luxury sport. Maybe I was just born in the wrong spot. :(
@@TopMaphisi totally agree with you! While I am not from a poor country I am from a country without ocean so I sail on a lake and go to oceans in the summer on vacation for like 2 weeks. While I am regularly Sailing on our lakes it would cost me easily 4000€ at least for a freeride board, only one sail and all the accessories. For a sport I can only do half of the year (and I do go out a couple of times in winter as well). In Snowboarding for example with 1000€ you get a great board and bindings. If windsurfing would be in that price range or closer I would totally buy new stuff but given the prices I only buy used stuff. Which is not good for the market and actually has huge prieces as well given that a lot of people buy used…
I mainly love bump and jump windsurf and look for big swell days and I am learning to wave ride. I got into foiling with a used Slingshot Wizard 125 and Infinity Foil - the system worked but it is not without Problems: Wizard uses non standard foil box, and Infinity Foil was poorly engineered and heavy. I find my windsurf foiling is more upwind / downwind, and I try and ride swell on the downwind side - this only happens in higher winds where my 5.0 windsurf soil wont work. My path is different than most foilers I see. In flat water and super light wind I go further afield to explore. I also am inspired by Greg Glazier and other windsurf foilers doing it different. Maybe I will finally go to Winging, but for now I love the windsurf foiling when I can't get planing with a 5.0 windsurf sail. P S one of my favourite of your videos was your wave sailing session. That is how I feel but I plan to keep going back until I get it
I waited until September 2021 before buying foil kit, as I knew the early kit would be under developed and perhaps rushed out. Versions 2 or 3 would be better than version 1. I bought an AHD Compact 83 freerace board and the AFS 1080 foil. You only go through the learning phase once so I cant compare against other kit, but that setup was good. My biggest problem was after windsurfing for 30+ years I had to forget a lot of technique which was second nature. After 2 years I bought a new foil (Phantom Z) as I found the AFS hard to keep level over 20 knots, as the fuselage was short, 88.5cm. A friend bought a 'brand x' foil board and foil as a package, as recommended by that brand on their website. It didnt work as the front wing didnt give enough lift for the footstrap positions. He complained to the brand and they just told him to spend £200 on a longer fuselage, and they updated their website to remove the recommendation for that foil and board!
The difference between the Dialer and Gecko: on the Dialer, I can get up on the foil in many positions, sometimes without feet in the straps. On the Fanatic, I can’t foil at all until I am powered in both straps (way back on the board). Then it foils low and in control. A great beginner board!
I windsurf for 30 years. I started kite surfing because I wanted to go out in light winds but I hated sails over 6,5 and boards bigger than 120 liters. Now I am learning wingfoil because it is much less complicated than kite foiling or wind foiling. I still windsurf when the wind is over 25 knots with my wave gear.
25yo Calssic Windsurfer since 13 Years. I've never tried Foiling. I kinda want to just for fun, but i can never imagine that it would make more fun than Windsurfing. Second thing is that i was student till last year and these foils are freaky expensive. Maybe thats also a reason why i never tried it. I mean you can find a 2. hand gear for windsurfing(in good condition) for 300-500€. Thats also a big point. Greetings from switzerland
it has to do with the extremely strange combinations of gear.. I recommend watching Greg Glazier.. THIS is abselutely perfect.. too bad Slingshot has droppet the windfoil. the 125cm mast is a piece of art...
Very good topic, Mario. Seing the first windsurfer on foil many years ago, I was pretty stoked. But not any more. Foils are too expensive, too dangerous and from a spectators view, I prefer watching slalom competions with FINS only!. I,m 62, and I will never invest in foil equipment, since I feel there is still much more to learn in classic windsurfing. Also, I prefer the contact with the water. One of my favorite windsurf spots, here in Denmark is Hvide Sande (North and South) . Perfect for flatwater speed windsurfing in winds from westerly directions. However, if you are on foil equipment, be prepared to walk at least 300 meters before you can start up!!!. Very shallow waters there!.
I was lucky with kite foiling - got a spotz in the earliest days, they kept similar shape but improved the design to make it more robust (one piece fuse/front wing), it’s still competitive at a recreational level over 10 years later! Windsurfing seemed to really struggle getting sorted with decent designs, because really it should have been leading the charge.
May be was I lucky when I started out foiling back in 2018, but I rather fancy that it just took me some thinking before spending money on a brand that invested in cool video. And first understand that foiling is basically flying : When I discovered windsurf foiling, as a professional pilot, I immediatly saw how it relates to sailplane. And I met the guy behind Aeromod foil, and I knew this guy understood what he was talking about, and we talked the same aeronautical language, no beach crap thinking. I stick to Aeromod, because its foil are simply working, full carbon, so no corrosion issue, and you can still order parts from its first models as Alex only make them on the demand, and he keeps the molds of every gear he developped. Overall, I only bought two windsurf foil and a winging one, and I am sure I can still use those for years. And I switched from windsurfing one week on distant vacation a year to twice a week at a nearby lake all year long.
Great Video and very relatable content , I have been struggling windsurf foiling with a brand that has continually changed its foil seats so none of the new foils fits the last generation won’t name the brand. But freeride , gt, superflyer , super cruiser might give you an idea. Simply put they are all slow and unstable and unpredictable . I then went wingfoiling on an Italian brand and it feels super easy and fast, everything is interchangeable. I now feel that I have invested €0000’s in windfoiling and feel unsupported by the brand as they have developed my foils into obscurity. I understand it’s a development sport but feel there should be more help available to put people on the right path.
Not foiling. But when I watch your videos where you’re testing different degrees on your foil, then on your sail etc. I just think that’s way too many variables unless you’re professional. And you’re perfectly correct, there is no effort from the brands to give tuning guides. If you’re having trouble figuring out your tuning, I’m not gonna find myself. So better keep it simple and fun on the fin.
Hallo Mario, I totally see your three points, in the beginning I was also struggling with finding the right combination of foil equipment. At the moment, I'm recording some videos of my windfoil sessions on my insta360, I'd love to start to produce some useful videos like tutorials to get into wind foiling. Took me two years to teach it to myself, it would have been much quicker if there was more information for beginners available. I started with a foil ready freeride board, and didn't know that sustained level flight was impossible for me. As soon as I had a proper foil board, progress almost started by itself. I still think in light wind conditions a foil can still be useful in this board without flying, since you are planing earlier.
I LOVE fin windsurfing and I don't see any reason why I should start something new when there is still so much to achieve. It's just the best thing in the entire world!
I’m with you !
Same
but you bought a foil 😮
@@jonsurf69 lol nope!
@@danieloliver3664no the person whos comment you've commented on
Finally, someone has spoken about a problem I totally agree with! I’ve been windsurfing recreationally for 30 years, and when foils first came out, I was super excited because our spot doesn’t have strong enough winds for me (110 kg here, haha). The moment I heard you could ride with half the wind, I bought a foil on day one… and sold it on day two, LOL. They made it sound so easy, but clearly, it wasn't for me at the time.
Three years later, I finally got my hands on an aluminum Starboard Race paired with a Falcon Light 159 Windsurfing board. I rode it for two years, but each year they came out with new foil gear, and it was crazy expensive for a casual rider like me to keep up with. It felt like the products were unfinished because on every end of summer you you could hear the displeasure of drivers who bought new equipment and were not satisfied! So I eventually waited for a few years before investing in a product that made sense.
After the Falcon, I bought my first Falcon Foil Board 180, and wow, what a disappointment in quality-two boards, two years, two replacements. Same issue both times: too soft, cracking at the mast insert. In the end, I settled with a Starboard Foil and IQ Foil combo, and I have to say, so far, so good! Loving the ride.
I completely agree with your critique that the industry needs to invest in video explanations-what gear works for riders of different weights, what to buy, how to trim. Full support for your video, and I really hope the big brands like Duotone, NP, and Starboard take note of these issues. Big shoutout to all windsurfers out there! 💪
Same weight as you here. 22 years of experience. Year in foiling. I use Patrick 140 slalom windsurf board for foiling , absolutely enough, volume for me and it flights very fine even with my 9 sqr meters sail at 8-10 knots. Really do not see why people are buying boards with volumes like 180 or 230. Have friend with 55 kilogram own weigh, who bought 230 litres, what for?
Very honest...
I think the biggest problem in the windsurf industry is, that you can very rarely try before you buy. You read a lot of tests and articles, and you watch a lot of videos. You make a decision, and five days and 2500 euros later your new equipment arrives. And maybe, or maybe not, it will live up to your expectations. If not, your stuck with it and can go for another round after wasting a lot of money on the experiment...
Regards Per
Spot on. I know our local shop here in Sydney is very good a doing demo days and lending gear for wingers. But have very limited stuff for us windsurfers.
The wise man xan try before he buys. Find who has it as rental. Bite the cost bullet and rent for a week. While expensive, overall cheaper than costly mistakes.
You can get some really good second hand material for nothing
Very true Per. I end up narrowing what I buy to only what I tried, hoping the mix and match of the bits I liked the most works out. So really the industry should finance test centres / rentals.
They should do some demo days, charged or not, like what the ski/snowboard industry has been doing. Tried and true.
Haven't tried foiling. I windsurf on wave gear and slalom gear. I love the contact with the water and the waves. Foiling seems detached from those elements and the basic skills of windsurfing. Yes you get potentially more days on the water, but you also get the hassle of even more equipment. Plus the gear is even bigger than your windsurf equipment. Not everybody drives around in a van.
Or you just get a wing and a board and “rigging” takes 5 minutes. The foil is 4 parts. 3 of which are connected all the time unless I want to swap a foil size. So that takes 2 minutes. Learning how to ride is a different story of course. I windsurfed 20 years since I was a kid in the 80s - I get the feeling you mean. But you haven’t tried foiling, so your take is just ignorant.
It feels like your floating. Silent except for the wind. And suddenly every wave is surfable. You want to wing, prone, downwind… every foil sport there is. When I watch the complicate process it’s too much. The foils are very sensitive with this much weight it can’t be fun. With the bulk of the mast and the boom…. It doesn’t look relaxin😢g. I had a van to fit my windsurfing boards and masts. I have 6 wings and 3 board in my pickup bed. With my downwind board I can paddle up in the ocean, wing on a lake in 8mph gusts (or none if you pump). Or strap on my foildrive and efoil on my lake when there is no wind. My normal wing board is 5’3” and weighs 6 pounds. The feeling isnt the same as windsurfing with weed fin. Not close.
I actually got a van to put everything inside after I started foiling.
I only windsurf with a fin and love cruising into the sunset with my 9.3 sail and feeling direct contact with the water. I tried windsurf foiling once and immediately put it back. The unsightly poop position on the foil board and the higher fall height alone are not interesting to me. To get on the water sooner, wind foiling would probably be better as a supplement, but I'm still concentrating on fin windsurfing. I hope that sails over 8.8 square meters will be available to buy again soon. (I'm 53 years old)
if you tried it only once it is obvious you did not like it :/ It take me 3 years foiling to enjoy it more (much more) than windsurf. You can't say "I don't like it" if you can't use it...
@@mailamaila4384 I didn't even write "I don't like it." I wrote that the fall height and the poop stance when foiling were out of the question for me.That doesn't change in three years of practice.
@@mailamaila4384 for me it's okay but it's a bit like low-wind freestyle imo, something accessory but not the core of wind surfing to me. It's ok but I find it rather limited compared to wave riding and freestyle.
Perhaps compared to gliding back and forth with huge sails it can be seen as an upgrade. You can go very fast and go out with less wind and without using 8+ sq metre sails.
I think I'm adding a free race foil to the arsenal but yep, for the casuals perhaps foil has contributed to further fragment the market and it's a struggling market as is.
Youngster…… 😂😂😂😂😂
One fine day at Party Beach (Ho'okipa means that), a wave looped about 3 feet over my then 17 foot mast, the wind apparently pausing for inhalation, i pumped like a sailor in the bilge.
Resurfacing only somewhat quicker than a Dept of Transportation worker leaning on his shovel, i noticed Poseidon's subtle removal of everything other than the clewand perimeter string of my sail, i consigned it to the depths, never to be found by eye of mortal man through end of season, when, incidentally, many strapping lads had affixed thinfoils, once visible only in the hats of Roswellians, to craft toed by paws into other Jaws.
The feeling of contact with water, so like unto being peppered by fisticuffing featherweights for hours, slapboxing, can be wondrously asphaltic when tossed at 35kts plus, eyelids your sole braking mechanisms, bagging out better that Toyota recalls, as your body skips along like a flat rock for endless seconds, (cue Bruce Brown/Sandals theme).
Oh, H2O, i gargle thee, though bootied women call, shrill sirens displacing me.
And i alone am escaped to tell thee ( i would have said, Call me Ishmael, but none call or Email, nor is my dick moby)
Hello Mario,
great video. I've been surfing for over 40 years and haven't tried foiling yet. But I can only recommend anyone who wants an uncomplicated board and sail and wants to get out on the water in light to strong winds to buy a Windsurfer LT. This eliminates the equipment battle and the fun is overwhelming.
Yes, I agree, I have a Starboard windsup and it is great fun in light wind!
I bought a Slingshot package 4 years ago and that was the best decision. Plug and play checks all the boxes for someone like me. The Wizard 125 was extremely easy to learn and enjoy for many sessions. This summer I lost my foil hitting something underwater, foil was old and I didn’t feel sad about it, but looking around shopping I quickly discovered that I am fine with buying the same foil again. Simply because it’s overwhelming looking at all the other options. Also bought the freestyle board from Slingshot that was on insane low price and now I’m having heaps of fun. With board being 5feet long it transformed the same foil to a completely different feeling. Looking at the other guys at the beach with their talks about tails and fuselages and foil numbers is so off putting. Slingshot got it right from the beginning. Plug and play! Works for me every day.
Yes but they got out of windsurf foiling 😢. Also Wizard 125 won't take a Sab Foil without a special adaptor because the box is not deep enough. Standards are important! I also bought the Wizard 114 knowing all that 😂
The truth is most people just need an average sized foil. The madness of 50 different foil combinations and widths and aspect ratios is just for the 1% of people that need the extra little bit. For everyone else? You just need to think about how fast do you wanna go and thats it. Dont over complicate it.
I just bought everything Slingshot from the beginning. Never had anything different. Although my FS board has tracks and I did try my Armstrong wing foil. It worked but I had to step at the very back of the board to get lift.
So Slingshot currently has two generations of foils. The second, Phantasm, is backwards compatable with the first, Hoverglide and much improved in strength and design. That was great! If you are still rocking Hoverglide don’t be shy to try the improved Phantasm lower! You won’t be disappointed. The G series is awsome if you are ready to upgrade to the next level from an Infinity wing!
A third generation is coming this Spring but it will not be backwards compatible, and skips the G series for the newer, faster 99 series, which I think is a shame for intermediate riders.
There. A small bit of guidance.
I got all in in 2019 with Slingshot. Dialer 130, Hoverglide fwind1. Added Infinity 84 to ride high in light wind, 76 for faster riding in a bit more wind. Only “finned” a handful of times since. I have foiled 23-25 times a year.
Moin Mario, ich als Surfurgestein seit 1982 mit damals Delta Verdränger aus der DDR habe zwar eine ganze Zeit pausiert(Familie, Kinder, Job etc.), jedoch habe ich nie etwas anderes als das klassische Windsurfen im Focus gehabt.
Seit 1Jahr bin ich wieder aktiv und finde das Windsurffoiling schon ganz cool, aber ich bleibe meiner alten Linie treu.
Habe mir daher auch ohne irgenwelche Hintergedanken ein JP Magic Ride zugelegt und geniesse das schnelle Angleiten, die Stabilität und Schnelligkeit.
Es war gut wieder zurück zu kehren und gegen den Mainstram weiterhin mit Finne(die mittlerweile 52cm ist) zu fahren.
Ich finde der Tod des klassischen Windsurfens ist nicht nur dem Kiten und allen anderen folgenden Erfindungen geschuldet, sondern auch, weil die Industrie, den Blick für die normalen Surfer verloren hatte und jedes Jahr komplett neue Konzepte, ob Boards oder auch Riggs herausbrachte, die der normale Wochenend und Urlaubssurfer nicht mehr stemmen konnte und wollte.
In diesem Sinne:Ich find Finne geil😊🤙😊.
🏳🌈
I’m 60. The first thing I ever bought at the age of 13 with my own money was a 1 could’ve been 12‘ Dufour Wing. Me and my best friend learned to windsurf that summer.
Good video. I’ve windsurfed for around 30 years and have tried to get into foiling at the age of 67 without much success. I believe due to the complexity of the equipment that the right way to learn is by taking lessons from experienced foilers although this is very expensive. When I started windsurfing you could be up and going the first day and then learn the nuances over time. Wings and foils and the matching of equipment makes learning on your own difficult. I think one of the best ideas in this video is selling complete packages so you know the equipment all works together. Or maybe at my age I just don’t have the patience. I still do love windsurfing and the contact of my board with the water’s surface. Hopefully I’ll figure this out.
I am 67 now and learned windfoiling few years ago. I found it fun and easier on my body. I first started with a slow and very large foil (Slingshot infinity 99) and found this set up easier to learn. I am also now getting into wingfoil. I noted many windsurfer switching to wingfoil as I believe this will work better for my aging body in the long run.
I have been WS since 1979 and two years ago I started windfoiling, byuing an old SB formula board and an used SB Supercruiser foil. This combo worked fine but I have since then upgraded to faster gear. However, the Supercruiser is a perfect entrance for a newbie since it is easy to get flying with its huge wing (1700 sqcm) in light to moderate windspeed. It is also quite forgiving. Give windfoiling another go and I think you will also join the windfoiling community😊 since you will get so much more hours on the water when there is not enough wind for ws. PS I still enjoy ws when there is more wind so the two disciplines really complement each other.DS
I love windsurfing, and having a foil setup just means I can windsurf a whole lot more often. I did make a lot of expensive mistakes with foiling because there is nowhere to try stuff, and almost gave up. Really glad now that I didn’t, because now that I have it figured out nearly every day can be windsurf day… and not just bobbing around on a giant board with a huge sail, but flying around carving turns with a small lightweight kit. I’m sure there are many good setups out there, but I can tell you with certainty that the Severne Alien and Redwing foil changes everything - especially if you’ve previously struggled to get this figured out. Doesn’t change how much I love riding on the fin… it just means that I never waste an opportunity to be out on the water. As soon as it’s powered enough to lock in on the fin, I’m out there on it.
Totally agree , I have a severe alien with 1400 & 1000 wings , had heaps of fun on it, do yourself a favour though & get a Severne Predator 110 , this board is amazing it is much looser than the alien & I can now foil in 25 to 30 knots with a 3.3 wave sail, I can also use my 7m foilglide on it & sail in 12knots. I still have my alien 120 for cruising around , but the predator will take you to the next level of windfoil freeriding
same for me - normally with windsurf 20 sessions per year , this year foiling 33 sessions already and still surf season is not closed here
"Big Windsurf Corp. uses the Public as Beta Testers", I have said that myself so many times. It took me 3 different foils and as many boards to get something functional. I have been windsurfing since 1986. I still prefer the fin BeUT foiling gets me so much quality time on the water that it can't be denied as a valid pursuit of the craft. You said so many truths; like the lack of support for the regular guy, you are on your own buying online. I think it was worse back in '86 with the dealarships selling you the wrong equipmnet like Used car salesmen hitting quotas. You are the only one of us in a positoion to interact with the corporate structure. Be our rep and get Big Corp to earn the money we regular guys are paying them. BYW I Love the Point 7 sails you have in your windsurf videos.
Really interesting video. i live on the east african coast with trade winds for 8 months a year. Kiting is massive here but nobody is doing windsurfing. I plan to open a very small windsurfing business, partly to feed my hobby and have been looking a lot at foiling too. However a couple weeks ago I pretty much made the decision that i wouldn't bother with foiling equipment due to the cost, risk of rental damage, and the feeling that the industry isnt yet ready for mainstream adoption. This video further convinces me to stick with the fin. Thanks!
Wish you much success!
Please advertise online
And do shipping.
Lots of customers….
Sounds interesting, may I ask where in Africa you have such constant wind?.
Sounds like a place worth a visit :)
@@stormy-storiessurf9210 Kenya 🇰🇪 plus waters so warm there is never any need for a wetsuit.
@@ChrisInKe Thanks for your answer! Sounds interesting. Never had Kenya on the radar! Do you also get waves over there?
for me windsurfing has ALWAYS been about the FUN of it all
I still use a Mistral Equipe II XR and Fanatic Shark 145 most of my windsurf sessions
As I live in a "cold" country ... I build sleds for ice and snow WITH my windsurf sails ...
I have spoken with far too many people that tried windfoiling and went back to fin
(and these guys were the fastest/best windsurfers at my spots)
THIS stopped me from getting on the band wagon
Others tried foiling and went to the WING world !!
In light winds on the larger lake near us I still use a JP SLW92 with a 10-oh sail and LUV it !!
All that to say thanks for the video - gave it a Thumbs UP
and hope windfoil AND windsurf become more popular and "average joe windsurfer" friendly lol
Noch mals, Herzlichen Dank !!
Mistral Equipe…. Now that is a skill railing upwind 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks for a great video!! I'm in my 60s and started windsurfing on an original with a teak boom. Many years later and 1000s (tens of thousands?) of dollars later transitioned to kite surfing with 2 line ram air and a big heavy board with almost 0 rail! Yikes!! Anyway windsurfing and kite surfing hold many great memories: Lake Ontario, Cape Hatteras, The Gorge, numerous spots in the Caribbean, Cape Town, Western Australia. BUT I truly don't miss the industry's hype and dodgy marketing practices. It's been years since I kited and am content to take a pass on wings and foils and focus on kayak fishing!!
Totally agree with you Mario, there is a huge lack of accountability on the side of the surfing brands and manufacturers. The very high prices that we pay for these "high tech" gears is absolutely not backed up by an equivalent follow up-after sales-customer service. You're right, it should be fun, not another headache. Thanks for your videos, keep up the good work.
I have waited 5 years to buy a foil for sport to get developed by the brands now after 4 year buying beginner NP foil with a JP freeride foil I recognise none of my sessions are a like, each time I have a different feeling on the ride, sometimes stiffer sometimes wobbly, etc etc. I do not know if this is a production issue but again I have never struggled with an equipment before like this and each time you think the problem is you. Thanks a lot for making this video, I hope the media also take this serious issue into consideration for the next generation of windsurfers/foilers. Keep up the great work 🏆
Great points, Mario. Very interesting to hear what you've gone through to get to these conclusions.
First and only wind foiling board i have bought / tried has been Tabou Fifty 125 litres which is 232 cm long and 76 cm wide with GA foil 1500 front wing and has been fantastic, no complaints. Also good for windsurfing with fin, very similar to Tabou rocket wide 120 litres which was my previous board and also fantastic. I'm 72 Kg. This Tabou Fifty set up is ideal in about 15 to 18 mph when i would need to go 8 m2 but instead go with much lighter 5.6 m2 Freek. I also have Duotone 7.4 m2 F-Pace which is also great in approx 13 or 14 mph. I think i lift off sooner / easier / less effort than the wingers i see am my local spot. On the other hand i think the wingers get on better in stronger wind and more deeply wavy water. My set up is best with smooth swell or regular wave fronts, difficult to gybe in random deeply wavy and choppy conditions. [ edit- actually i forgot i got a Slingshot 115 litre freestyle foil board 188 by 71 cm and tried it with the GA 1500 hydrofoil and it was tricky knowing where to position the foil; so was very nervous and way more difficult to sail. The sail mast was much closer to foil mast. Will try again when i get better at foiling ]
Thank you for reaffirming my thoughts on equipment. Just this year, I sold my wind foiling gear for next to nothing and went to wing foiling. I still have my windsurfing gear and enjoy it most! Also if I may say, the problem with used equipment prices today are because of the manufacturers introducing products to the public before they are ready to be released. If I pay retail on a new foil that just doesn't work well with anything, then I end up selling it for a third the cost. It has trickled down into used boards, booms, sails and everything else.
I started wind foiling with an f4 foil and just like you I had the mast explode at the fuselage and shear the foil off. At that point I just started winging and the new downwind boards and high aspect foils from axis have been great. In light wind I really enjoy sailing my 40 year old mistral superlight, it rails well upwind and planes nicely and the upwind angles are excellent so I can explore the whole bay, not just reach back and forth. On a windy day I definitely prefer the fin on a slalom board.
As a normal guy trying to learn windfoiling I agree with a lot of the things you mention. I'd say you are in the position to test a few freeride foils/boards (even if you don't sell all brands in your shop) for the users. How easy to learn on/stable are the foils? What is the wind speed a given foil/board needs for takeoff without huge pumping efforts? What width and volume should I choose for my weight? What sail sizes? This would certainly be a video with a lot of views. The Kümpel freeride foil guide ;)
I tried to learn in 2019 with a 130 liter Slingshot and the full 35” foil mast. I crashed hard and often as I rigged for normal windsurfing. I quickly ordered the Foil Academy set of three mast sizes. Foiled the 12” taxi the rest of the summer: no crashes. Moved up to the 24” mast in 2020. Foiled higher with a few crashes. Got an Infinity 84 front wing. Wind Foiled the 84 the rest of 2020 and 2021 on the 30” mast, free foiling for the entire length of the lake. Now I am on the Infinity 76 foiling faster and jibing 5.6-7.0 sails. 88 kg, I need 12-15 knots to foil.
I have subscribed to Windsurfing magazine, Windsport and Windsurfing Now. Learned lots. I started on a Slingshot Dialer 130, then I found a 2018 Fanatic Gecko 133. It works with my Slingshot Hoverglide Package. It’s not Fast Fast, but it’s plenty of fun.
Great video, very interesting debate. I would also like to point out that windsurfing (foil or fin) is a sport that takes a long time to learn, especially for those who are far from lakes or the sea. As a result, there are a lot of people with an intermediate level! And finding good, easy-to-handle equipment is a real challenge.
Very true! Thanks for the feed back.🤙🏾
Thank you, I learned something very interesting.
absolute! theres so much crap, crap industry XD
i wonder why theres not a reasonable sail, with a variable size.
i want to see how that stuff evolved and of course, the modern sails are THE optimum shape like a bird wing. but theres always an alternative, with modern materials to do sth different... no real sailor would switch sails all the time, it is so ridicolous (but of cause we still love it)
Thanks for sharing your experiences! I am a fin windsurfer and haven’t tried windfoil. I have tried wingfoiling this year, and was tempted now to try wind foiling, but feel less interested now.
Danke Mario für den ehrlichen Einblick! Bin seit ca. 4 Jahren mit eigenem Material unterwegs und habe auch schon mit dem Foil geliebäugelt. Jetzt weiß ich es doch erstmal sein zu lassen. 😀
Hoffentlich finde ich nächstes Jahr mal die Möglichkeit eine Finnenberatung in der Windlounge zu machen. Liebe Grüße aus der Lausitz 🙂
A very similar thing happens in Surfing - little to zero ways of people finding out how to buy the right surfboard - or even one that is good. I think you have a great opportunity and platform to educate people coming over to foiling and its huge water time benefits.
Surfing = Wellenreiten? Sure not, surfers know what to buy. Compared to windsurfing material war Surfing is pritty chilled. I windsurfen many years but its too expensive with less Emotion outcome. Foil is just another desruption from the essentials. More bigger faster... for me i enjoy slow down, less material, more nature. And by the way one essential part of Surfing ist the gliding feeling and I not feel that on a foil.
Slingshot did the best for freeride foils that I saw. Much less difficulty in tuning than other gear I've used, and they had some videos. Unfortunately, I don't know if they are still making windsurfing foil gear or not. They put almost everything on sale for very cheap, including board and foil packages. Would love to try next gen race gear but already have lots of money in slingshot and starboard foil sets, which are totally different experiences between freeride and race foil.
Great points in this video.
I really relate with the narrative here
I bought a board+foil package from JP/NP first time it got released. The foil just didn't work - very limited lift, super heavy, had a mast replaced for defects. I changed to a Naish foil which was way better, but limiting with conditions as the fuselage didn't work well with a large front wing. I now have a Moses/SABFoil which works really well.
I hope there were testing centers for foils .
Great to watch this. This is exactly why I stopped foiling- the foil was completely wrong for me and just did not work in my “foil ready” free-ride board. I have fun on the fin, up to 8.5. The foiling just wasn’t fun, it was just a struggle.
Great video! Saying what everybody thinks but dont have courage to tell, i foil on the past but came back to fin.... Foil and the industru of windfoil for me sucks!!...FIN FOREVER ❤️
Some well considered thoughts in the video. I’ve been trying to master foiling for 2 years, and am using a Starboard Freeride 150 foil board. I initially bought a Supercruiser foil, thinking it would be easy for light conditions - no! I found it terrible and with the bevelled rear wing (before the shim version), tuning it the same way twice was impossible. I switched to a Starboard Freeride foil earlier this year and have made more progress. But again, through talking to others, I have switched the rear wing from the 500 supplied to a 330. It’s more controllable in gusts. Bottom line - much of my tuning is by trial and error and talking to others with the same gear (often over RUclips to people on other continents!!). I like Starboard as a brand and feel some loyalty to them, however as you say, they could do so much more for the ‘average windfoiler’ to enhance the experience and in turn help promote the sport.
I have tried windfoiling on my Jag 125 4 years Aygo. It was no succes. And I was still struggling in light wind sessions with my 7,8 Duotone S-type. The last two years I have been changing my sails - all to the new light weight sails from North Sails. In smaller sizes 4,2-6,2 The X-over and 7,7 and 8,6 in the FreeRace. It has totally changed my windsurfing routine. With the FreeRacers I can go out in very light winds and have a great session. With the FreeRacers I sail up with the guys on foil-gear. I think that light weight equipment will revolutionise windsurfing in the light wind sessions 🤙🏻😄
Hi Mario,
great comments from you side. In several cases this hast happened in windsurfing in the same way. In many cases now these companies just did the same what always do. I remember 20 years we had issues with cambers of one of the most popular sail companies. The boss in Germany clearly stated our "No issues, you rigged it wrong". We went to Netherlands and in a shop the importeur of that company has been. He said it is known and you just need to cut the camber a bit. It still took years to change it generally.
The board division of this company of course had years later inflatables. I wrote that with my 70kg I'm not able to reach to pump to the recommend pressure. The boss again answered that his 7 years old child can easily do this. In the next surf magazine they showed an easy going thinner pump. Why didn't Just tell me that?
I started windfoiling with a JP FSW with 94L it has been a compromise and and it is not bad, because I could my equipment. But at the same time it is just light wind playing and I'm still changing to fin as soon as possible.
Jochen
I agree with you. I do two kinds of foiling freeracing with a huge board and a huge sail, and freeride foiling with tiny wave sails, focusing on riding swell and just playing around - in strong winds (Greg Glazier is the best ambasador for this kind). The later feels very similar to what I would do on a wave boards - and I am sure lots of windsurfers would enjoy that - but it is hardly markeded. To me foiling enables me to have fun in places with caotic chop and gusty wind. The foiling I see in pwa just puts me off - it is too extreme,,,,but that is where I feel most of the focus is. It is kind of like when easy allround slalom boards such as fanatic rat were replaces with super narrow copellos and you had to be on national level in order to do a good jybe,
Im with you on wind foiling small sails and just having fun. I have tried IQ foils and such, 8.5 sails and above, even though it amazing and efficient and goes at nothing, it’s too big. Currently I only have wave sails. Foil if wind is low and bump and jump when it picks up. I also started winging but prefer my Slingshot FS 115 better for play and cruising.
Yup, I foil like this when I can't bump and jump on a 5.0 sail. So typically I foil a 4.5 wave sail, or in very light winds a 6.0 Sailworks Flyer.
I used to wait for actually windy days to go out windsurfing. With the foil, I can sail much more often. In the old days, I would go out on a longboard with a daggerboard and kind of limp around the lake. Now I am flying high.
One of the best opinions about the windsurfing industry I ever listened to.
I absolutely agree on everything, especially the Beta products, a way to let pay R&D to customers (or shops). I still love windsurf when it is really windy, but from 12 to 18 knots wingfoil is so much easier (a small board, a foil and a wing, without any complication about tuning). But they're trying to make it more complicated...
Very good points, especially at the beginning of foiling days you needed deep pockets to progress and keep up with all the gear changes, which now is pretty much useless. Many people got disappointed and just never bothered. Now the level has been so high that there is no motivation or connection to start learning, feels like completely different sport.
Same story, spent big buck on my big slalom stuff 85wide board/ carbon fins/ sails etc. Bought also a SB alu foil and the slalom foil ready board just wouldn't fly. Had to take up the loss replace the board with a foil dedicated to only enjoy the descipline.
Also the sails are another sticking point. I use 2 or 3cam freerace sails which work well with foil, with less downhaul and more outhaul, but all this knowledge was gained with lots of trial.
A very interesting video Mario which makes many intelligent and valid points about the windfoiling journey that many of us mortals have taken and the direction the Windsurfing industry is going
I started 3 years ago on a Fanatic Falcon Lightwind 159 with a Starboard GTR Foil and Duotone S and E Types. I’ve found the GTR to be a great first foil. No complaints about the quality and the board was quoted as ‘Foil Ready’ and found it to be a great board to learn on with no defects developing in the foil box.
It’s been a slow but enjoyable learning curve but there are very few sailors at our lake that have decided to go down the windfoiling route but there is now a very healthy & enthusiastic winging community and sadly a rapidly declining windsurfing community
I totally agree with you, Mario. I have encountered the same problems, spent money, and been disappointed. Recently I switched to a racing foil and I found it much easier. I have some issues because my board and foil come from different sale marques (eg, JP board with RRD foil) and I am not willing to spend more money to buy more equipment. What you mentioned is absolutely true and I thank you very much for this video.
I waited until 2019 to try foiling on holiday and got flying 5 mins …. Eventually after a year I bought a naish hover and Nash ws foil …so ..a package zero regrets and to date no equipment issue….i might be one of those rare free riders you mention as I know my foil is not fast 24 knots is fastest it’s been it’s the light wind windsurfing on a gusty lake that i wanted the foil for. Great video it helps the brands as they probably don’t get all the feedback so might not be aware. Feedback I would also give is keep it simple and have common standards where possible.
My experience: In my hometown light winds are prevailing. I have Patrick slalom windsurf board which bought for 1800 euro back in 2021, it is foil ready, Windsurfed it 3 years, and because I am stingy guy bought 400 euro Gong Foil, just replaced its frond wing with 1500 better series font wing. What I can say is that combination is just perfect, I cruise normally with 6.7 sail, it was 9.00(when used same board with fin) I just feel super comfortable with foot on straps hooked on harness and when wind is steady 14-15 knots comfort is unique. I feel like I am in my sofa at home with beer in hand.
Soo- 2.40meters long board is not a problem at all for entering in the foiling , 400 euro GONG foil flies just fine and can be used also as entry for winging. I am sure dedicated windsurfing board is better, but also foils ready windsurf boards are excellent solution, so not to spend 1000 and plus euro for dedicated board, at least at the beginning.
Most guys just want to try foiling, like me. I just tried, loved it and now I only foil. Haven't used fins since 5 months. Also on annual basis I normaly do 20-23 sessions yearly. This year because of foil they are 33 sessions already saved in my watch - pretty good year for me!
So my advice for those with foil ready boards- Just buy cheap foil and try, if you love it, stay with it, if you do not - find someone to sell back cheap foil, and keep up with fin
Thank you for your video. Everything has its time. One should be careful when traders, producers or sponsored athletes call something "destroyed". The new product (foil, wing) brings more sales. Windsurfing was already behind snowshoeing in the sports ranking, so a marginal sport. The full windsurfing beginners courses I saw in the summer on Fehmarn-Baltic Sea give me hope. The music LP was also already dead and has a great revival. As long as something still brings as much fun as windsurfing, it will never be "destroyed".
I've had a relatable journey - bought one of the first foils available in New Zealand (N Pryde) and sailed on a freeride board, moved on to a Manta (had some quality issues) which I still use, but it does feel like a lottery and I've (possibly) wasted money on trying unknown combinations. Thanks for this - not sure if it helps me specifically but does put things in perspective. p.s. I foil most of the time but when I do back to the fin it still rocks, and sometimes it's nice to just switch boards and use the same sail if the wind changes.
I watched the whole way through, which is saying something for me. Loved your "struggly journey" comment. I’m and old school windsurfer from the 80’s, now wingfoiling. Keep the good work up Mario.
Nice video very clever, love it. I started with alpine foil and I’m,still with it, direct contact by phone with the designer for advice, very versatile, I did my air jibe with it and not the fastest but 24-25kt with 12 to 15 kt of wind, perfect for me for a 1200 wing. Love it !
Started out fin only. Got into foiling about two years ago, never looked back. I got the gunsails freeride foil. Shimming the backwing is the only thing I did and it's fast enough for me, plus it goes around the jibe first. The aluminium mast is a bit heavy, but apart from that, highly recommended.
I have been windsurfing for more than two decades, and I’ve noticed that many hard-core windsurfers are switching to wing foiling. These are the people I would have never expected to leave windsurfing. Being close to your father’s age, I’ve heard from others that wing foiling is easier on the body. Wingfoil is not attractive to old people since I note that many talented windsurfers are still having a lot of fun with wing foiling.
As you mentioned, the ease of carrying equipment is also a significant plus. There are also many other options with wing foiling, such as riding waves, downwinding, foiling without wing once up, and using power on low-wind days to support wing foiling extending days on water etc. This all looks very positive to me, and I’ve decided to add wing foiling to my list of fun activities, alongside windsurf foiling.
I don’t blame the companies for selling their products while this field was evolving. I believe they received a lot of feedback on their suboptimal technology, but I don’t think they were doing it on purpose. Wing foiling has also benefited from the evolution of windsurf foils and still evolving. For example, would you blame Armstrong for their version 1 foils compared to current outstanding new versions; similar evolution is also happening on the wing side that many of the first generation of wings are not really as efficient as the new ones such as having much better canopy much better shape, different versions of booms, the lightness of the material, etc. it’s both way for customers and the companies that we are partly paying for their R&D so that we can have much better product.
Overall, wingfoil is bringing more people into water sport which was not possible with windsurfing since it is significantly harder to reach to level ie plaining in short amount of time. You mentioned packaging for Windsurfing to make it easier for customer to make decision. I agree with the notion, however it is going to be significantly more expensive compared to the wing foil packages. It is also my opinion that the range of wind is limiting for the Windsurfing since one may need several different sails to cover different wind range, which is not the case for wing foil.
It is a fact that we as a windsurfing community to accept that wingfoil by its nature better to bring more people on water. I am somewhat concerned that since the people interested in a windsurfing as diminishing that will be reflected on the cost of equipment.
And now I declare you a Master of Surfing Science! Man, you must publish your paper.
The biggest problem with foiling is the complete lack of compatibility between brands. Next you have compatibility problems within brands. In some cases they change the entire connection systems every two years and nothing is backward compatible and they stop providing spare parts for older systems. So when you break a part like the mast or fuse you left with a pile of expensive gear that you can no longer use.
Add to that a confusing range of front wing options making it near impossible even for an experienced foiler to figure out what works best for them. And of course because there is crazy range of wings most shops can't afford to hold a large selection in stock let alone offer them as a demo.
My guess is foiling, especially wing foiling, will go the way of SUPping. We are currently in the middle of the hype cycle. A lot of people switch from SUpping and Kiteboarding/ Windsurfing to Winging. They get to a certainly level where they can get from A to B, jibe and back to A fairly quickly but then can't progress any further, get bored and move onto the next thing. We've seen it with kiteboarding and SUP. Foiling with be the same.
One of your best videos in my opinion. Big shoutout. The part about foil-ready boards is new to me. I just bought one of these, also because I want to get into windsurf foiling at some point. Very disappointing that it's not working well. In fact I was very much missing any content on RUclips that test foiling on foil-ready windsurf boards.
Very very interesting, I hope some brands will watch this video and try some initiatives to improve the situation. Yes starting foiling with windsurfing is crazy today, brands are not focused on average people and that's a mistake I think which will impact next years with less and less people wanting to try this. There is a clear lack of ressources, and I would like to add that finding a school or somewhere to learn windsurf foiling is almost impossible now so you need to start alone in the death valley...I fully agree the result is a switch to wing where brands are focused on average people with plenty of resources and schools. Thanks a lot for your video and let's hope for an improvement 🎉
I use a slingshot Wizard 105l with a severne Red Wing (Alu mast), you can get both together far below 2k€. I Always use a 5,2 freestyle Sail and can have fun in 12 to 15 knots, when flying also in 9 knots, when everybody else is using 8qm with fin, Makes fun
Great video. Reminds me a lot of the early 90s where the industry was obsessed with ultra high end slalom gear and shops were selling 5/6/7 cam slalom sails and crazy fast but awful to sail boards to everyone irrespective of ability and conditions.
What is sad is how many people have bought inferior foil gear in the last 10 years and just given up. Windsurfing has always been too expensive. Foiling has made it worse.
Could't agree more. The WS industry is about to make the same mistake again. Another thing that really annoys me is that even though there are set "standards" e.g. dimension of a Deep Tuttle Box, each and every brand still makes there own version of it which prevents "interchangeability" between the brands. I have a JP Hydrofoil board which I really like but my Starboard foil does not fit without a lot a wiggling and tilting of the foil mast to get it to sit snuggly in the foil box without damaging the nuts and screws.
Honest reviews like in a car magazine. Like this sail is good but the materials are less durable. It can be overwhelmingly complicated for people who just start windsurfing and look for new equipment. No adverts but straight reviews. Good video and great topic 👍
I agree. Luckily I took the advice of my friend Casey Treichler (Reef Warrior boards) and went the windsurf wave foil (wwf) style using GoFoil gear. Since 2019, no hassle and lots of fun using nothing bigger than my 4.8 wavesail.
A single brand I'll stick to and openly support because it stands out from the rest. Makes a point of keeping compatibility year over year. Actually has experience in pro gear design AND manufacturing. Targets now the average Joe wanting top quality, no longer just the pros. Controls manufacturing quality and cost by doing it all in house, not in Asia. Sticks to what they do best: foils. Makes a point of keeping a direct customer relationship, staying a medium size brand. Unanimously supported by the top RUclipsrs of its home country. Offers the best price/quality ratio in the wingfoiling industry with their Modular series: AlpineFoil ❤
I really enjoyed your critique. All these sports have different markets...If I sailed on a lake, harbour or somewhere else with lighter unpredictable wind, I'd try windsurf foiling. I'm a coastal sailor in small waves, and I prefer jumping and tricks to reaching up and down. I therefore started winging for light winds as it can progress into simple freestyle. Also, I see a lot of older people winging....it's less brutal on the body and all the gear is lighter and takes up less storage space. I'm 52 and I see winging as an investment for my later 60s/70s to keep me on the water.
Excellent points - This is also how a sport dies out. Wide boards helped so many new people get into windsurfing from the 2000's, but foils are creating all these hurdles: the industry needs to make it easier to get onto foils.
I started on a Slingshot foil and Board Wizard. That was perfect for freeriding. But i love racing. So now until 23 knots I am on the iq foil and Slalom foil sails. From 25 knots on I am still on the iq foil with a 4.2 or 4.5 wave sail. The iq foil is a real allrounder for freeriders and freeracers. I hit 26-27 knots even with the 900 front wing. Its super easy and stable. The 650 Frontwing is good when fully powered. And its plug and play. No need for huge adjustment stuff.
i sold my foil and board recently mostly because this. most freeridefoils today is old locked to one maybe two winds that wont be compatible to next model so when they make next model and you cant buy any spare wings if something brakes. it should be a standard fitting like the finbox, use whatecer fuselage,mast and wings ypy want. it would make the industry more flexible, compatitive, less expensive for the users and for the long term better
Thanks for video :-) ... One of my dream was to foil ... I wanted to do foil jibe ... I bought second hand Futura 110l with 1100cm Freeride foil from Starboard. It was pretty good for foiling but I was not able to even start with jibe. Because when I put my leg just in front of back strap I landed. I decided to upgrade because I was not sure it is possible/easy to do foil jibes. So I decided to sell it and buy second hand IQ foil 900cm with IQ 85 board. Now it is much easier to free ride with it. I love to use 5.9 2004 wave sail with it. I also do WingFoiling and love it. I probably will keep both for next year. I like the speed of WindFoil and performance. For the winter I will start with pumpfoil, because I have a great small dam without wind 100m from my office ... Simply said foiling is addiction...
Spot on Mario, thanks! It's neither easy nor cheap and insufficiently documented by the manufacturers, but I still love foiling ❤
My foil history goes like this: NP Glide Wing, Recharge, F4 Course Bundle, Severne Red Wing with more FW's, Phantom R lots of fuses and wings, Patrik AEON TI with more wings. On the boards side I started with Patrik 145 Free foil then JP Hydrofoil 133, Severne Alien 125, Future Fly 187 both the white and the red version, Phantom R78 and now I'm on Phantom R85 and R91.
The two most "honest" foils in my opinion is the Severne Red Wing and the Patrik AEON they both "deliver the goods as promised" so to say 🤟
Thanks for advocating these problems!
What a great honest video about the subject haha! Thanks for it and Nice job :)
I definitely agree with many of your points.
I purchased a Neilpryde RS:one convertible as a first foil gear also for fin and it's definitely not made for foiling! I was having fun but couldn't ever lay back as the pro did and couldn't understand why... After 1 year my dad and I purchased a fully foil dedicated board with also the select foil, and that was it, straight away stable flight, we could lay down as the pro did and accelerate! I was relived to see that it was not my skill level but actually the gear!! 50/50 fin and foil board was really a big mistake as you already explain! And as a tip, I would recommand also to purchase race foils, also for beginners or just people willing to cruise because they are well developped as Mario said, stiffer which makes them easier to ride also, and with big wings they are really fine! The top finition for the board is not necessary as long as the shape is the same as the slalom guys... And finally I purchased fully foil dedicated race sails (point7 F1SL)and it was another game changer... So after 5 years of going with some gears as finally understand well hoy foiling and the gear works and found the right set up and settings, but it was worth it!
For the sail however I feel like having foil freeride sail is perfect if you want just to cruise as they are way easier to handle than the 4 or 3 cam race foil sails...
And about the sails, it's time for the brands to go for a 1 slalom sails that do both as Nils said in one of his videos... Because having all the quiver in double is just not affordable... I use my 6.7 F1SL as a fin sails and foil sail and it works perfectly for both, but it is from 2022 and at that time is had a bit more length in the outhaul... I think that it would make the system way easier for every one! The pro riders would also like to have 1 sail for all to reduce the amount of gear to carry and to set up!
Another tip would be to stick to the brand settings and not apply settings that you saw people from other brand use because the brands don't have the same factory settings!!! I have AHD board with AFS foil and the mast rake is already positively set as a factory setting. At the time every one was talking about foilbox rake shim so we tried but it wasn't useless as the right setting was the original one, However, the foil to ride fine, depending on your preference needs from 1 to 3 schim on the back wing. But this is not written anywhere on the website, I had to ask people on the forums to get this information... Which makes it complicated... People often come to me and ask about my settings but as they don't have the same brand this piece of information is useless for them and could put them in the wrong direction about the tunning...
FInally try if possible to by the same foil and board brand for the reason I explained above... Because they have been developped together.
About the wing, I don't think that the windsurfing industry has a lot to do in the new hipe about wingfoiling... And wingfoiling gear also tend the get super complecated with way to many options... Some friends also told me that is crap how it's explained, with too many option, and I often see people with the wrong gear for them....
I think it's just a new way of enjoying water and something new to try! I love it but definitely not as much as windsurfing, as you said the feeling is absolutely not the same... I have friends that went from windsurfing to wingfoiling and that now wants to get back to windsurfing again because windfoiling is getting boring they said, nothing better that a good blast on the slalom gear or jumping and curving in the waves on the fin!
Valid point... Thank you for this honest video. Hopefully the industry will listen and follow
I saw what happened with windsurf equipment and kite as the sports developed there was no way I was going to be an early foil adopter, and now after seeing this video I’m so glad I didn’t foil yet. The marketing videos right from the early days up to now is so great and compelling I still will try it for sure, but there is a giant disconnect between what I have actually seen on the water and this. Sadly when someone asks me what windsport to try and they aren’t sure I always say wingfoiling, and that is from a commited lifelong windsurfer.
Stayed with slingshots since 2019 still prefer to fin. Mostly free ride wind foil in the Gorge.
Hi, I think you pretty much nailed it with your insights. One major point which you highlighted is the 'package' thing. In general the position of a finbox is just no good t o put a foil in, it's too far back and you have to put too much back foot pressure to get up and this will also make it near impossible to jibe. I started windfoiling almost 8 years ago with Horue, and guess what; I bought a package: Horue Vini and aHorue tiny board (2.10m) because this was a whole new thing, I knew no one else who was foiling, I saw their freeride/freestyle clips and knew: this stuff works. So if it didn't work for me it would be me, and not the equipment. Because my focus was freeride/freestyle this was a very good combination. But apparently not for you, because you were focussed on 'racing', which the Horue foil wasn't designed for, and you didn't have the right board for it. I stuck with that same foil (well indeed an upgrade to a stiffer mast after 1.5 years) for about 4 years, and never encountered a (race-) foiler that got on foil earlier or could stay on it longer than me unless he had at least to 3 to 3.5 sqm bigger sail, so disagree on the 'race-foil is easier and gets going earlier thing... it just comes down to having the right board with the right foil for what you want to do (so indeed packages, or boards and foils that are developped 'together'). And indeed in the 'early' days the 'major' brands just huried to get 'a foil' on the market that was pretty lame in general. I threw away my 8.5sqm sail and now use my freestyle (and a big 6.4m² power wave sail) to foil on any small gusty lake almost 2.5 times more days out on the water... cause I'm cruising and even jumping on my 6.4 sail in conditions where I would not have been able to get going for more than 50m at a time (or at all) with my 8.5 sail and a 122liter slalom board...
Good job with your video, keep it up!
You’re absolutely right. Someone should create a review channel that provides only honest feedback, with all the information about how products truly hold up, along with what the community says about them. However, I understand it might be difficult to get the materials if the outcome could negatively impact the company. But in that case, they should focus on making better products.
Hello Mario, you're right: the equipment is expensive and as a foil beginner I don't know what kind of board and foil I should get. Do I need a board, which is shaped like a foil slalom board, why are freeride boards with foil suitability not suitable for foiling, are crossover boards suitable, to what extent can you drive straight ahead with a freestyle foil board, what kind of foil do I need (mast, etc). I would be very happy about a tutorial from you, where you might also test a freestyle foil board or work out the differences. As a beginner, you are simply overwhelmed with the selection. Unfortunately, slalom foil boards are also very bulky. Thank you for your videos and keep it up!!!
Hi Mario, great summary, good ideas and constructive criticism. I‘m surfing since 1988 and still having fun with that fin stuff. Additionally I started wing foiling last year and have some success and fun this year. Still a beginner low aspect ratio foil with Aluminium mast, fuselage and carbon foil wings. This and a huge beginner wing foil board with 170 liters brings fun on the lake or the sea also.
You must try different stuff. So I was at the Wing foil festival at Fehmarn island. There you will find mostly no 100 percent beginner material, but you can try different combinations. That was an amazing experience.
For windsurf foiling, I‘m also thinking about to try that next year maybe.
Regarding prices: all hobbies are expensive if you need gear for it, but starting with a used material or with material from last season could also help to save some money.
And a good and real advice from an expert like you or at other shops, this will lead to success hopefully.
At least every brand does different designs, changing the following year and the wings, fuselage, masts from last year are not compatible. This reminds me to the early years of windsurfing, where each brand has its own extension and mast plug system. Incompatible to other brands.
Why not thinking about to have that easier for customers. If they are getting better more easily, because of better support by the brands itsself, they will buy the next level of stuff / foil, etc to have more fun. It could be so easy. So your ideas for creating live content, is very good! And having cheaper stuff, but good for beginners or restarters of the sport.
Watertime is the thing for watersport enthusiasts!!
Thank you for your promotion of the sport. It is always fun with you and your dad.
Kind Regards
Marco
the best vidéo i ve ever seen, relating the REAL difficulties we actually meet in the windfoiling planet , as a simple freerider ; i can confirm, from france, all you re taking about is the reality...
i would have been happy to satisfy you by writing my opinion in german but my level is as poor as my windfoil practice.😁
Very interesting. Live in a light wind area and started wingfoiling two years ago. Works great but i miss the sail. Only a very recent article in Surf-magazin gave me the idea to start windfoiling to be able to use the sail again. Prefer old school freestyle and was surprised how little information about that is out there. But I'm pretty sure I will try it, because i managed to find a few (a FEW) videos on easy foilstyling😊
So true. I’m on my fourth foil. Reasonable happy at the moment. The foils prior to this were rubbish. Only due to discovering the Severne Redwing foil and Alien board whilst renting it in Prasonisi I finally had that awesome feeling on effortless cruising and jibing on the foil.
Im still amazed that it's taken so long for this sport to take off.
It's actually been around since the eighties.
Great video mate! Still in experimentation phase which is crazy given how long windsurfing has been around!
seit über 40 jahren windsurfer, seit 5 jahren windfoilen mit slingshot matos....ganz egal ob windsurfen/foilen ausstirbt und ich der einzige auf dem wasser bin...mir machts tierisch spass und das ist das wichtigste.
nebenbei gibts soviel letztjähriges oder gebrauchtes material um auch die kosten übersichtlich zu halten... wer nicht 2 linke hände hat kann das meiste selber reparieren und somit seinem matos zu langer lebenszeit verhelfen.
Those Y25 foil sets from RRD with M6 screws 😅. The mast was wobbling all around, the fuselage with the foils lays deep in the lake of Como. That “free ride” set was a nightmare, it was impossibile to control
Great video. Very insightful. So many good points you make. Windsurfing foiling missed the boat because of all the things you say. I loved Windsurfing but Windsurfing foiling didn't look good.
Wing foiling got there stuff sorted quicker and took the market.
Wing Foiling is easier to get good at from the start.
The Windsurfing foiling gear might finally be good now but a wingfoiler isn't going to change to a Windsurfing foiling.
Nobody new to the sport decides to become a Windsurfing foiler. With Wing Foiling many people from other water disciplines, through to no sailing experience are taking it up . More importantly the ones that take it up stick with it and love it.
Unfortunately Windsurfing foiling now is only a niche market.
Great work on your presentation.
Sucked in to the Windsurfing companies. I love wing foiling the majority of the days but when I go Windsurfing that is still super fun as well.
Enjoy.
I have windsurfed for 40 years (!), but I essentially quit 2-3 years ago for several reasons, including medical (back injury). I have been sponsored by several brands, including Quatro and Goya. I've sailed many of the prominent places in the world, from Keeps to the Cape, from Tiree to Klittmoler. So, my experience should count for something. Throughout all those years, it always surprised me how brands primarily developed for the top end and much less for the low end. Great for me, but not for your average Joe. Equipment was always too technical and challenging to master. However, that leaves folks stranded, disillusioned, and frustrated. Moreover, the money is made at the low, not the high end, from a pure volume perspective because most users are at the low end, only a few at the high end. The latter is a niche, like a luxury car, whereas the former is your everyday driver, like a Toyota Camry. Car brands know their business and focus on the former, so should windsurfing. The high-end will take care of itself. So focus less on gear for Braw, Siver, and the like, who can take care of themselves, and more on gear for John and Mary, so to speak. New gadgets like foils, paddles, etc are just gimmicks that take away from the real underlying issue and suffer the same problem as outlined in the video.
Can't agree more. Went thru similar journey, tried boards like old Falcon (no way), racing Goya (had to modify straps), Starboard Futura (what is actually good board for windfoil). Ended up purchasing JP windfoil board, what a positive surprise. Foils: Started to learn on 1st gen RRD - it was simply horrible, so soft, so wobbly. I wanted to progress so bought Severne RedWing - such a difference. I recommend for beginners/intermediate. Now I want something faster and also suitable for wing - still finding out what to buy. Sabfoils looks great but terribly expensive. Maybe Duotone has learned how to do it right, but I cant test it- so far away from nearest dealer/test center. I need advice what to buy but test videos are so rare and mostly biased by rider's experience.
Good topic, very much what I feel about windsurfing brands. It became a milking industry with no point of entry to new gear for low budget surfers. The new boards are fragile and delaminate after some years. Would have loved to try out foiling but the fear of hassle takes out the fun of surfing.
Thanks for the feedback! However I disagree about the "milking" - barely anyone in this industry makes relevant money, even the big brands. I totally agree about your critique regarding the board quality, thats not good. But to be fair, its only a few % of boards that are like this.
You can for sure try foiling, just do some good research on what equipment works and its easy. Just for people without any clue, its almost impossible.😅
@@MarioKuempel The milking part refers to the falsly engineered and priced products. A freeride board in my opinion should be way more bulletproof for less money, instead of being light and fragile. For me example, as an intermediate windsurfer from east europe (and believe me, we have way more broke mofos out here than me :D) 1500 Eur for a freeride board - 1000 for a 2-3 year old used one - is just way too much in this part of the world. And if you ding it once at the beach, its already damaged and needs repair. Ok, get the nose protector - for 200 eur more... See my point?
Why not make it durable and longer lasting from the get-go for the ones who don't need a Starboard GO anymore but don't have the skill to blast over 45 kmh yet, or they sometimes catapult while doing it.
Foiling the same. 2500-3000 for the latest board? 1000 for a used one which is 3-4 years old and maybe not good with the foil. I've been watching you guys from DE for several years now, reading on the topic, asking the local foilers about their opinion - still don't see the clear path. Still don't see the foil pack on the market which in one unit will cover from beginner to intermediate without spending more money on wings, masts, etc... And keep in mind, we don't have shops that support try out sessions. You just buy blindly with the hopes and dreams. And marketing BS. :D
Don't get me wrong, I'm a die hard windsurfer and willing to spend time and money on a hobby I'll do until the grave. I'll understand that these things need a lot of labour and design, R+D to reach the shops - and are pricy for this reason. But here, in this part of the world - it is a very-very serious problem. I don't think it should be a luxury sport. Maybe I was just born in the wrong spot. :(
@@TopMaphisi totally agree with you! While I am not from a poor country I am from a country without ocean so I sail on a lake and go to oceans in the summer on vacation for like 2 weeks. While I am regularly Sailing on our lakes it would cost me easily 4000€ at least for a freeride board, only one sail and all the accessories. For a sport I can only do half of the year (and I do go out a couple of times in winter as well). In Snowboarding for example with 1000€ you get a great board and bindings. If windsurfing would be in that price range or closer I would totally buy new stuff but given the prices I only buy used stuff. Which is not good for the market and actually has huge prieces as well given that a lot of people buy used…
I mainly love bump and jump windsurf and look for big swell days and I am learning to wave ride.
I got into foiling with a used Slingshot Wizard 125 and Infinity Foil - the system worked but it is not without Problems: Wizard uses non standard foil box, and Infinity Foil was poorly engineered and heavy.
I find my windsurf foiling is more upwind / downwind, and I try and ride swell on the downwind side - this only happens in higher winds where my 5.0 windsurf soil wont work. My path is different than most foilers I see. In flat water and super light wind I go further afield to explore.
I also am inspired by Greg Glazier and other windsurf foilers doing it different.
Maybe I will finally go to Winging, but for now I love the windsurf foiling when I can't get planing with a 5.0 windsurf sail.
P S one of my favourite of your videos was your wave sailing session. That is how I feel but I plan to keep going back until I get it
I waited until September 2021 before buying foil kit, as I knew the early kit would be under developed and perhaps rushed out. Versions 2 or 3 would be better than version 1. I bought an AHD Compact 83 freerace board and the AFS 1080 foil. You only go through the learning phase once so I cant compare against other kit, but that setup was good. My biggest problem was after windsurfing for 30+ years I had to forget a lot of technique which was second nature. After 2 years I bought a new foil (Phantom Z) as I found the AFS hard to keep level over 20 knots, as the fuselage was short, 88.5cm. A friend bought a 'brand x' foil board and foil as a package, as recommended by that brand on their website. It didnt work as the front wing didnt give enough lift for the footstrap positions. He complained to the brand and they just told him to spend £200 on a longer fuselage, and they updated their website to remove the recommendation for that foil and board!
The difference between the Dialer and Gecko: on the Dialer, I can get up on the foil in many positions, sometimes without feet in the straps. On the Fanatic, I can’t foil at all until I am powered in both straps (way back on the board). Then it foils low and in control. A great beginner board!
I windsurf for 30 years. I started kite surfing because I wanted to go out in light winds but I hated sails over 6,5 and boards bigger than 120 liters. Now I am learning wingfoil because it is much less complicated than kite foiling or wind foiling. I still windsurf when the wind is over 25 knots with my wave gear.
Super interesting, thank you, mate!
Love it, we clearly need more of that 😊
i totally agree with your assessment, I went out on purpose made foil board and free ride board , there is no comparison .
25yo Calssic Windsurfer since 13 Years. I've never tried Foiling. I kinda want to just for fun, but i can never imagine that it would make more fun than Windsurfing. Second thing is that i was student till last year and these foils are freaky expensive. Maybe thats also a reason why i never tried it. I mean you can find a 2. hand gear for windsurfing(in good condition) for 300-500€. Thats also a big point.
Greetings from switzerland
it has to do with the extremely strange combinations of gear.. I recommend watching Greg Glazier.. THIS is abselutely perfect.. too bad Slingshot has droppet the windfoil. the 125cm mast is a piece of art...
Very good topic, Mario. Seing the first windsurfer on foil many years ago, I was pretty stoked. But not any more. Foils are too expensive, too dangerous and from a spectators view, I prefer watching slalom competions with FINS only!. I,m 62, and I will never invest in foil equipment, since I feel there is still much more to learn in classic windsurfing. Also, I prefer the contact with the water. One of my favorite windsurf spots, here in Denmark is Hvide Sande (North and South) . Perfect for flatwater speed windsurfing in winds from westerly directions. However, if you are on foil equipment, be prepared to walk at least 300 meters before you can start up!!!. Very shallow waters there!.
Thank you very much for the Video! I knew the most Videos from you. But This is One from the best! Greetings from Hannover. 👏👏👏👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks for advice. Will keep try.👍🏼
I was lucky with kite foiling - got a spotz in the earliest days, they kept similar shape but improved the design to make it more robust (one piece fuse/front wing), it’s still competitive at a recreational level over 10 years later! Windsurfing seemed to really struggle getting sorted with decent designs, because really it should have been leading the charge.
May be was I lucky when I started out foiling back in 2018, but I rather fancy that it just took me some thinking before spending money on a brand that invested in cool video. And first understand that foiling is basically flying : When I discovered windsurf foiling, as a professional pilot, I immediatly saw how it relates to sailplane. And I met the guy behind Aeromod foil, and I knew this guy understood what he was talking about, and we talked the same aeronautical language, no beach crap thinking.
I stick to Aeromod, because its foil are simply working, full carbon, so no corrosion issue, and you can still order parts from its first models as Alex only make them on the demand, and he keeps the molds of every gear he developped. Overall, I only bought two windsurf foil and a winging one, and I am sure I can still use those for years. And I switched from windsurfing one week on distant vacation a year to twice a week at a nearby lake all year long.
Great Video and very relatable content , I have been struggling windsurf foiling with a brand that has continually changed its foil seats so none of the new foils fits the last generation won’t name the brand. But freeride , gt, superflyer , super cruiser might give you an idea.
Simply put they are all slow and unstable and unpredictable .
I then went wingfoiling on an Italian brand and it feels super easy and fast, everything is interchangeable.
I now feel that I have invested €0000’s in windfoiling and feel unsupported by the brand as they have developed my foils into obscurity.
I understand it’s a development sport but feel there should be more help available to put people on the right path.
Yes I agree SB foils are a total mess😮. But just to kill my cuoriosity, which Italian brand are we talking about?
@@allanasp771 SabFoil
Not foiling. But when I watch your videos where you’re testing different degrees on your foil, then on your sail etc. I just think that’s way too many variables unless you’re professional.
And you’re perfectly correct, there is no effort from the brands to give tuning guides.
If you’re having trouble figuring out your tuning, I’m not gonna find myself.
So better keep it simple and fun on the fin.
I love windfoil and windsurfing… I do each when the conditions allow it😅
Hallo Mario,
I totally see your three points, in the beginning I was also struggling with finding the right combination of foil equipment.
At the moment, I'm recording some videos of my windfoil sessions on my insta360, I'd love to start to produce some useful videos like tutorials to get into wind foiling.
Took me two years to teach it to myself, it would have been much quicker if there was more information for beginners available.
I started with a foil ready freeride board, and didn't know that sustained level flight was impossible for me. As soon as I had a proper foil board, progress almost started by itself. I still think in light wind conditions a foil can still be useful in this board without flying, since you are planing earlier.
Great sharing of learning and experience!