I remember playing Valor Gunlance back in MHGU a lot with this "new" style where I did Quick Reload, Burst Fire, side/back-hop, and then repeat. It was nowhere near efficient back then, but man was it fun to just endlessly shell like that!
Yeah, it seems like almost all the superiority for the new combo is in utility, not damage. Less than 2% variance is marginal, so the sharpness and mobility aspects are the game changer. Love to see you always going indepth
I'm gonna wait till we get to use Long and Wide shelling. Though it would seems Normal might win out on top with the new combo spam. Then there's the issue with push back from burst fire against Charge Shelling. Will Long and Wide have the same push back as Normal because of the amount of shelling loaded? Sorry I'm getting ahead of myself. Guess we just wait for the full release to find out more. Use what we got for the time being.
yeah, charged shells have push back based on the number of shells loaded. the big push is with six shells, mid push with four and small with three... long will have mid push and wide no push?
@@caoslayerwide gets medium push with the 1st shell 😫 and it takes longer to load each shell (0.7 seconds) compared to 1 normal's shell(0.4 seconds). it might work out with enough multipliers stacked on a high base wide shell. and the is a possibility of correct timing on release to mitigate the recoil from going to medium like normal can do with 3 shells assuming that's intended.
I gotta remember that shooting without ammo automatically quick reloads in neutral for Wilds. Evade Extender will certainly help this new FB loop a bunch.
I really love that the moves are basically a huge upgrade and smoothly ironed work over the valor MH-G combos... Now AA Flare, where? 😂 As always, love your content. 😊
@@petercottantail7850 Yours is a good point, but our monkey unga bunga gunlancer brain just thinks "explosions or...EXPLOSION!". I mean...a Judas's belt is not the same thing as a Yonshakudama.
I found an efficient combo using the shelling to move, combo to moving wide sweep, into wyrmstake full blast. Really good for unloading on a newly downed monster and really good movement too. Curious as to how the average DPS on focusing multi wyrmstake full blast vs sticking to the new combo. Also still curious to see if evade extender impacts the moving while shelling attack.
the combo in this video is mainly for the purpose of informing people what they can do instead after a fullburst with the new options available. it can also be used in the middle of combat since the reload has a guard point and you can get some mobility from the hop which will get even better with evade extender. but the combo you are talking about is broken beyond comprehension. asking about dps, they have different timings to compare so it's hard to say one over the other in a vacuum setting. infact the damage from shell sweep wyrmstake-fullburst is actually a bit worse than 2 fullburst hops. but when we consider dps then shell sweep combo is much stronger and faster. once you full reload to do it again you actually have a choice to just empty shell quickreload instead cause they tie with one having to full reload. but then we look at mobility and the pretense that the monster is moving or attacking, the mobility of shell and running sweep around attacks or getting closer to a a monster moving away, mean you will almost always find an opening for wyrmstake-fullburst and worse case scenario, that's all you get. but usually you'll find MultiWyrmSteak or fast wyvernfire available and now you are doing greatsword damage with no effort at all. and now the rest of gunlance moveset is obsolete cause they don't have the tools to keep up and can't come close to damage. you 'can' use other moves, but once you know this combo it becomes night and day difference and will default to shell sweep. we just have to hope this is a beta thing and they have a better solution when the game comes. there are ways to fix it without hurting gunlance dps by changing some combo routes so it's not a danger to gunlance damage to hope for a change
Now that it's quite clear the new loop is better than the old, I wonder how the comparison is between the new loop and the new multi wyrmstake full blast combo. Full burst loop was always my go to whenever a monster was downed/trapped, but I wonder if it might sometimes be better to do the multi wyrmstake full blast, based on time to complete, damage of full combo, and time monsters take to get back up? And one last small thing: does the overhead slam still have mind's eye, and does the initial start-up poke have mind's eye? The slam and sweep traditionally have mind's eye, but the initial start-up poke never did, so in some situations it could be really awkward to start the loop.
@@caoslayer Ledge hopping to reload and slam with R2 into Full burst is amazing too lol I did it whenever I got the chance. But here's another question. Is this faster damage than the new diagonal full burst combo?
@@caoslayerWhile the new combo is has the advantages of better positioning, lower sharpness consumption and better punish for smaller windows, I am certain that eventually, with optimized skills for damage, the old FB combo does MORE DPS (on not trashy Hitzones), with skills such as WE and Crit Boost, on top of Attack Boost, and Attack buffs because even if shells do end up scaling with Attack, surely it won't be on a 1:1 ratio
I'm not a gunlance player so I wouldn't know fully but if they're similar in dps couldn't the old combo be better with crit or like weakness exploit and then be used in like bigger openings when you can hit weak spots consistently?
There is lots of assumptions in the statements including if weakness exploit is going to come back... and which version. Iceborne version was 30% unless you hit a wounded part for the 50%. There is also the thing that since attack buffs shelling, you could go for something like offensive guard and straight up buff all your attacks without criticals. Heck, at this point I wouldn't even surprised if shells could critical hit.
GL tends to entirely ignore Crit skills, because those only work on melee hits and not shells. GL shells are always fixed damage, regardless of your armor skills (except certain GL specific skills), and regardless of monster hit zones (so you can shell an ultra-hard part or super bad hitzone and still do great damage) Crit skills would only matter on the melee attacks of the lance, and only on good hitzones; so why bother going the extra fuss of positioning and aiming melee hits and ignoring shells, when we can just blast whatever part of the monster we want. This is a big part of why I personally love GL - most other weapons' "meta" skills always include crit eye, crit boost, weakness exploit, etc; so most other weapon sets end up very same-y with very little space for comfort skills. Meanwhile GL only needs a few skills specific to it, and then you can fill the rest of the set with a large number of comfort skills.
Consider that right now, gunlance shelling scales with attack in wilds. That is a big changer there and we are lacking a lot of other information including which skills are in the game and how have been reworked. Too soon for a real answer.
the old Loop is going to still be better once we get the full game with stats and damage skills to increase our melee output on weak hitzones. This new short loop is probably going to be good for armored shitzones. It'll just depend on your melee output.
This is with the very unoptimized demo armor sets though. I would assume with end game builds, the sweep will scale more from skills than the full burst even if we do get some raw scaling now.
How much and in which circumstances comes in a later analysis. I'm not sure of this being inferior if by example you don't have a stake ready or if the monster has not a clear opening. You can't cancel WSFB.
They needed to keep Wide Sweep's damage higher if they wanted the old combo to be competitive... As it stands now the new loop is not only faster & winds up having more DPS, but also takes less sharpness.
I have a feeling this may be more an issue for Long than anything. Seeme to me that Wide is gonna want to do charged shells, if they're at the point they need to be.
Long with a stronger WS should have a better WSFB than normal. Normal has the advantage of being able to use the pure fb combos or being able to FB and then go into wsfb uploading the damage. Long also has the implicit benefit of range.
@@caoslayer I don't know a ton about the new wyrmstakes, but I sorta see Long still liking the Wide Sweep into wyrmstake for tail cuts. Will be interesting to see if it will be worth it.
Biggest nerf is to the explosion fx honestly. Full burst looks more like a wimpy firecracker or sparkler than an actual explosion with a shockwave. gonna feel much less satisfying from the looks of it sadly 😢
This sounds like you’re parroting the other criticisms that are valid and applying it to Gunlance because you want to complain about something. Gunlance has never sounded and felt better
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 there isnt any hitstop in this game, hitting monsters feels like cutting water compared to previous games, you must be to dumb to notice though
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 Honestly its the only thing im dissapointed with. Everything else looks great. Personal preference ig but it seems much less impactful. sorry your psychoanalysis was off base.
@ I know, it’s such a pain to apply. I’m playing Iceborne again to fill the hole the beta left in me and having to apply WSB everytime is a pain in the ass.
I wouldn't say getting an automatic reload when your Gunlance is empty is a QoL change. It's like the reload minigame for jams in Gears that almost no other game has. What it is--is a gameplay balance change and I have mixed feelings on it. On one hand, it seems to me that the trend in every iteration of the game is the removal of small mechanics that gives MonHun its quirks and nuances. On the other hand, it's a minor thing to be mindful of--definitely less impactful than being animation locked after drinking a health potion--and combat feels smoother. Same with no longer having to buy ammo for Ranged weapons, which was kind of like an unofficial drawback from having ranged be overpowered compared to melee weapons. It just removes the immersion of being prepared and mindful of your ammo and changes the balance for the weapon, but whatever, I play Lance anyways.
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Yes 😭🥺 I can't believe we only got such a brief instance in time to play the beta...Capcom must know how heartbreaking it is!!!!!
I love that reload animation. The valor style reload. Something about spinning the gunlance to reload is very satisfying to watch.
Your tips were so fun to use in the beta. I had a lot of fun with gunlance and CB keeping most of my attention
I remember playing Valor Gunlance back in MHGU a lot with this "new" style where I did Quick Reload, Burst Fire, side/back-hop, and then repeat. It was nowhere near efficient back then, but man was it fun to just endlessly shell like that!
speed running would use it all the time, not sure where you are getting that info it was bad
I like the rattle-y bones sound effect in the rotten vale theme
Yeah, it seems like almost all the superiority for the new combo is in utility, not damage. Less than 2% variance is marginal, so the sharpness and mobility aspects are the game changer. Love to see you always going indepth
I'm gonna wait till we get to use Long and Wide shelling. Though it would seems Normal might win out on top with the new combo spam. Then there's the issue with push back from burst fire against Charge Shelling. Will Long and Wide have the same push back as Normal because of the amount of shelling loaded? Sorry I'm getting ahead of myself. Guess we just wait for the full release to find out more. Use what we got for the time being.
yeah, charged shells have push back based on the number of shells loaded. the big push is with six shells, mid push with four and small with three... long will have mid push and wide no push?
@@caoslayerwide gets medium push with the 1st shell 😫 and it takes longer to load each shell (0.7 seconds) compared to 1 normal's shell(0.4 seconds). it might work out with enough multipliers stacked on a high base wide shell. and the is a possibility of correct timing on release to mitigate the recoil from going to medium like normal can do with 3 shells assuming that's intended.
@@petercottantail7850how would you know details of wide shelling?
I gotta remember that shooting without ammo automatically quick reloads in neutral for Wilds. Evade Extender will certainly help this new FB loop a bunch.
I really love that the moves are basically a huge upgrade and smoothly ironed work over the valor MH-G combos... Now AA Flare, where? 😂
As always, love your content. 😊
I understand that it’s more efficient dps wise.
But it doesn’t activate my neurons like a big explosion would.
This is something I use when without WF
its more explosions in less time though, what is there to dislike?
@@petercottantail7850 Yours is a good point, but our monkey unga bunga gunlancer brain just thinks "explosions or...EXPLOSION!".
I mean...a Judas's belt is not the same thing as a Yonshakudama.
I found an efficient combo using the shelling to move, combo to moving wide sweep, into wyrmstake full blast. Really good for unloading on a newly downed monster and really good movement too.
Curious as to how the average DPS on focusing multi wyrmstake full blast vs sticking to the new combo. Also still curious to see if evade extender impacts the moving while shelling attack.
the combo in this video is mainly for the purpose of informing people what they can do instead after a fullburst with the new options available.
it can also be used in the middle of combat since the reload has a guard point and you can get some mobility from the hop which will get even better with evade extender.
but the combo you are talking about is broken beyond comprehension.
asking about dps, they have different timings to compare so it's hard to say one over the other in a vacuum setting.
infact the damage from shell sweep wyrmstake-fullburst is actually a bit worse than 2 fullburst hops. but when we consider dps then shell sweep combo is much stronger and faster. once you full reload to do it again you actually have a choice to just empty shell quickreload instead cause they tie with one having to full reload.
but then we look at mobility and the pretense that the monster is moving or attacking, the mobility of shell and running sweep around attacks or getting closer to a a monster moving away, mean you will almost always find an opening for wyrmstake-fullburst and worse case scenario, that's all you get.
but usually you'll find MultiWyrmSteak or fast wyvernfire available and now you are doing greatsword damage with no effort at all.
and now the rest of gunlance moveset is obsolete cause they don't have the tools to keep up and can't come close to damage. you 'can' use other moves, but once you know this combo it becomes night and day difference and will default to shell sweep. we just have to hope this is a beta thing and they have a better solution when the game comes.
there are ways to fix it without hurting gunlance dps by changing some combo routes so it's not a danger to gunlance damage to hope for a change
The only source for gunlance i trust. appreciate your hard work
Now that it's quite clear the new loop is better than the old, I wonder how the comparison is between the new loop and the new multi wyrmstake full blast combo.
Full burst loop was always my go to whenever a monster was downed/trapped, but I wonder if it might sometimes be better to do the multi wyrmstake full blast, based on time to complete, damage of full combo, and time monsters take to get back up?
And one last small thing: does the overhead slam still have mind's eye, and does the initial start-up poke have mind's eye?
The slam and sweep traditionally have mind's eye, but the initial start-up poke never did, so in some situations it could be really awkward to start the loop.
I wasn't able to test for bounces in the beta. I don't even know if is possible to get a bounce anywhere.
Rotten vale theme bangs
Keeping this for later, thanks Cao.
God the rotten Vale combat theme goes so hard
When we make our own builds, won't 100% affinity make the sweep combo better?
Depends of how easy will be to get 100% affinity and the other available skills, for example offensive guard buffing both shells and melee.
@@caoslayerAnd the ratio of Attack scaling of shells, surely won't be 1:1
So, the new faster combo does less damage but is more practical? Or is it actually more damage over time when used repeatedly?
More damage over time because since is faster, you can do it more often.
There is also the thing that you can make good use of smaller punish windows.
@@caoslayer Ledge hopping to reload and slam with R2 into Full burst is amazing too lol I did it whenever I got the chance. But here's another question. Is this faster damage than the new diagonal full burst combo?
@@caoslayerWhile the new combo is has the advantages of better positioning, lower sharpness consumption and better punish for smaller windows, I am certain that eventually, with optimized skills for damage, the old FB combo does MORE DPS (on not trashy Hitzones), with skills such as WE and Crit Boost, on top of Attack Boost, and Attack buffs because even if shells do end up scaling with Attack, surely it won't be on a 1:1 ratio
I'm not a gunlance player so I wouldn't know fully but if they're similar in dps couldn't the old combo be better with crit or like weakness exploit and then be used in like bigger openings when you can hit weak spots consistently?
There is lots of assumptions in the statements including if weakness exploit is going to come back... and which version. Iceborne version was 30% unless you hit a wounded part for the 50%.
There is also the thing that since attack buffs shelling, you could go for something like offensive guard and straight up buff all your attacks without criticals.
Heck, at this point I wouldn't even surprised if shells could critical hit.
@caoslayer ah that all makes sense thanks for replying
GL tends to entirely ignore Crit skills, because those only work on melee hits and not shells.
GL shells are always fixed damage, regardless of your armor skills (except certain GL specific skills), and regardless of monster hit zones (so you can shell an ultra-hard part or super bad hitzone and still do great damage)
Crit skills would only matter on the melee attacks of the lance, and only on good hitzones; so why bother going the extra fuss of positioning and aiming melee hits and ignoring shells, when we can just blast whatever part of the monster we want.
This is a big part of why I personally love GL - most other weapons' "meta" skills always include crit eye, crit boost, weakness exploit, etc; so most other weapon sets end up very same-y with very little space for comfort skills.
Meanwhile GL only needs a few skills specific to it, and then you can fill the rest of the set with a large number of comfort skills.
Consider that right now, gunlance shelling scales with attack in wilds.
That is a big changer there and we are lacking a lot of other information including which skills are in the game and how have been reworked.
Too soon for a real answer.
@@LadyTsunade777 Me using only melee with slaplance
the old Loop is going to still be better once we get the full game with stats and damage skills to increase our melee output on weak hitzones. This new short loop is probably going to be good for armored shitzones. It'll just depend on your melee output.
This is with the very unoptimized demo armor sets though. I would assume with end game builds, the sweep will scale more from skills than the full burst even if we do get some raw scaling now.
Shouldn't step shell sweep into the new wyrmstake full burst combo outdamage both of these slam full burst combos?
How much and in which circumstances comes in a later analysis.
I'm not sure of this being inferior if by example you don't have a stake ready or if the monster has not a clear opening.
You can't cancel WSFB.
This feels like long gunlance in world and will be very strong with evade extender.
They needed to keep Wide Sweep's damage higher if they wanted the old combo to be competitive... As it stands now the new loop is not only faster & winds up having more DPS, but also takes less sharpness.
yeah I'm not sure how wide is going to compete with the fullblast combo
I have a feeling this may be more an issue for Long than anything. Seeme to me that Wide is gonna want to do charged shells, if they're at the point they need to be.
I feel will be using charged shells and a completely different play style based on more shelling and wyvern fire.
Long with a stronger WS should have a better WSFB than normal. Normal has the advantage of being able to use the pure fb combos or being able to FB and then go into wsfb uploading the damage.
Long also has the implicit benefit of range.
@@caoslayer I don't know a ton about the new wyrmstakes, but I sorta see Long still liking the Wide Sweep into wyrmstake for tail cuts. Will be interesting to see if it will be worth it.
The faster loop looks more superior because of 1 melee hit sharpness eaten and the repositioning capability of the hop 👍
I've said this in a previous video but I miss the old burst fire effects, I don't like this new one. Which is a shame because I want to main gunlance
So what is the best combo as a GL noob.
Could u tell me in buttons for playstation pls 😂❤ i cant remember the name of every single attack
meanwhile slaplance spamming wide sweep over and over
Wait you say old and new gen not gen 5 and 6 that both is new gen old gen is mh1 to xx
Biggest nerf is to the explosion fx honestly. Full burst looks more like a wimpy firecracker or sparkler than an actual explosion with a shockwave. gonna feel much less satisfying from the looks of it sadly 😢
This sounds like you’re parroting the other criticisms that are valid and applying it to Gunlance because you want to complain about something. Gunlance has never sounded and felt better
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738its ok to have criticisms, alot of weapons and their overall satisfaction factor is much reduced in MHwilds unfortunately
@@Paperbat Man what game are you playing? Gtfo man
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 there isnt any hitstop in this game, hitting monsters feels like cutting water compared to previous games, you must be to dumb to notice though
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 Honestly its the only thing im dissapointed with. Everything else looks great. Personal preference ig but it seems much less impactful. sorry your psychoanalysis was off base.
Letting shells scale with raw and getting rid of the stupid WSB requirement is great.
That thing only worked if you scripted it with wallbangs to place it in easiest to hit spot when monster is up like namielle back legs.
@ I know, it’s such a pain to apply. I’m playing Iceborne again to fill the hole the beta left in me and having to apply WSB everytime is a pain in the ass.
I wouldn't say getting an automatic reload when your Gunlance is empty is a QoL change. It's like the reload minigame for jams in Gears that almost no other game has. What it is--is a gameplay balance change and I have mixed feelings on it. On one hand, it seems to me that the trend in every iteration of the game is the removal of small mechanics that gives MonHun its quirks and nuances. On the other hand, it's a minor thing to be mindful of--definitely less impactful than being animation locked after drinking a health potion--and combat feels smoother. Same with no longer having to buy ammo for Ranged weapons, which was kind of like an unofficial drawback from having ranged be overpowered compared to melee weapons. It just removes the immersion of being prepared and mindful of your ammo and changes the balance for the weapon, but whatever, I play Lance anyways.