What an excellent documentary, no 'dramatic' nonsense, no pointless music, just information presented clearly. I wish documentaries were still like this.
Today's audiences apparently need to see the same dramatic reproduction of events repeatedly throughout a documentary, along with dramatic music and a shaky camera to emphasise the fear and panic. Oh, and small text at the bottom of the screen to confirm that it's a re-enactment, to clarify that there wasn't a camera crew on board at the time.
Yes, and they didn't show what the programme will be about, then repeat what it was about, in order to make a ten minute programme fill half an hour. Also the filming was about the subject - not simply following a 'celebrity' around, who spends most of their time gurning at the camera.
It was the journalism of the era before hot buttons and sensationalism . Totally pro, clear diction, no colloquialisms. Originating in the UK and less distinct versions in the Commonwealth. And no one parodies it better than Eric Idol and his sidekicks :)
I was in Stockport baths when people rushed in to grab all the stock of towels. That pilot deliberately dropped the plane in the only uninhabited area between the engine failure and the Ringway runway. His action saved countless lives on the ground if he had tried to limp on and crashed into a heavily populated area. Another few hundred yards on and I would not be writing this .
That´s one explanation. My understanding of crash is following: Plane reached stall speed and pilot must tried to increase angle of attack in order to clear obstacles and laminar flow of air around wings changed into nonlaminar causing sudden loss of lift and falling of airplane like stone.
Finally, an investigation that I could understand easily. No waffling, computer graphics etc, just basic facts. Great video. RIP to those lost in the crash.
What an excellent documentary! And such a different time when people simply gave an honest recounting of what happened from their point of view. No dramatics, no huge lawsuits...I miss this era!
I'd forgotten just how good documentaries used to be. Just a straight forward narrative of known facts, presented clinically with out being sexed up with CGI or the promotion of an agenda. And yet remains a most sympathetic account of that dreadful day. Less can be more.
Even though they had little info to assist the investigators, these ordinary people express themselves so clearly, so free of the "...like..." (and all the rest) BS of their modern equivalents. Maybe it's the language that I, as a boomer, was brought up with. Not saying that boomers are somehow superior. Maybe ability to articulate has declined for reasons connected with TV, popular culture & er modern media ?
@@daffyduk77 I couldn't agree more. Half of the TikTokers I can't understand, even though they're speaking English, because they speak so badly. Well, I could understand, if I really tried, but I can't be bothered. If someone can't be bothered to speak properly why should I listen? Someone speaking with a strong accent or with not English as their native language is different. And it's true that if you can't speak, you can't express yourself, and that leads to an impoverishment of your ideas.
It was the day of my 7th Birthday, my Aunt was coming to take me out for a big day of celebrations. As a 7 year old I had no idea what devastation had taken place to spoil my birthday. I just remember feeling very sad that my day had been ruined. Today, at 60, I realise that my birthday was a grain of sand compared to the 72 lives lost that day. The crash site was 1.2 miles from my home.
This is a great documentary. Full of technical facts clearly explained. Nowadays the documentaries are so dumbed down that there would be little technical stuff, they would be concentrating on trying to get victims to cry on camera.
This is absolutely fascinating to watch, in my opinion. I love the raw sound. Now I understand why ADHD is fueled. As a diagnosed person, with the “disorder,” I can watch this without ANY hint of anxiety despite its subject matter: an airplane disaster. 😊! The black and white format without all the extra music and background noise makes this somewhat soothing and enjoyable to watch. And it’s easier to digest all the technical information being examined. Thank you for sharing this documentary.
Yes, it's one of the best documentaries I have ever watched. No histrionics, no stupid music to keep the low-attention-span people from being diverted. If only all docus were done like this. The narrator was one of the clearest, has to be said
What an absolutely first class documentary this is. The forerunner to the AAIB were fascinating to see as they reconstructed the wreckage. It is because of crashes like this that Cockpit Voice Recorders were made and installed, to give investigarors an idea of what was going on on the flight deck.
I remember this air crash I was seven years old, and my dad went down to Stockport to help. He had experience of aeroplanes from when he was in the RAF in the war. Looking at the old film I think I see him helping next to the wreckage, it was so sad one of the families where we lived lost there mum. Dad took his own life in 1975 and we think it is what he went through in the war.
I have noted that some comments state that the pilot was faking amnesia & that it was obvious that his mistake caused the accident. As a retired police officer I am glad to say that the UK Justice System is not based on The Sus Laws. It is based on evidence. Long may it remain so. It is a weighty & dangerous responsibility to pass judgement on someone on the basis that they are obviously guilty by supposition alone. "Evidence evidence evidence lad" ... as my old Sgt used to regularly drum into me. How right he was.
Hi Andy... I sincerely hope your old Sergeant also drummed into you: "REAL evidence Lad" I suspect he did...and I am pleased he did. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the Stephan Kizko.... Lesley Molseed case. If ever there was a case of a miscarriage of justice by the "powers that be"...this is one of them. I am an ardent believer in capital punishment. With reservations. Some people are beyond redemption and have no place in society. You commit the ultimate crime: You pay the ultimate price. That aside, imagine if we had hung Stephan? An innocent man condemned by bigoted police officers and a corrupt pathologist. We have to strive to get better. it's that simple. The DNA found the culprit. No margin for error. The culprit in this case....murdered three people. We must not forget this case. EVER. It should be standard training material for ALL police officers...across the world.
Andy Lenton often the very people pretending to be reasonable, sensible, patriotic are the first to chuck our laws out of the window and demand lynch justice. Just look at the Republicans in the US!
@@billpugh58 valid observation there Bill,... it must be part of our human psyche to demand knee-jerk rushes to judgement. Maybe we do it to deflect from the dishonesty that we see lurking deep in our own hearts but can never admit to..... That is why the Rule of Law, though not faultless, will always be a better, fairer, safer system than Vigilanteism .
I once met a woman who was a nurse at that nearby hospital at the time. She had volunteered to babysit the children of a couple who had flown off to Majorca for a week’s holiday. Those parents were on that flight back and ended up being sent to the same hospital, and died, apparently because like many of the other passengers, their seats collapsed on impact trapping them by the ankles, while the remaining fuel burned around them. Terrible story.
I'm always amazed at the lengths air crash investigators will go to, to discover the real cause of accidents, as demonstrated here. It's because of that flying is as safe as it is today.
I was walking home through Stockport that afternoon without a inkling of what had happened 3 or 4 hours previously, so the sight of the wreckage came as quite a shock.
Riveting journalism and photography. The surviving passengers who spoke were composed and articulate. They were not asked demeaning questions on their emotions. A perfectly made documentary. Unlikely to be created today.
Stephen T And precisely what are you talking about ? Dd you take it all in. There was no intent. No definite negligence. Information sharing between airlines was non existent. It was the investigation of such crashes and the painstaking work done, that makes flying so safe today
I remember seeing this back in the late sixties. I was about 9 but always remember the name "Hotel Golf" which I thought sounded a bit James Bond like. This programme is possibly the best record of how the NorthWest was back in the sixties, the fashions, cars, houses and people. This programme shows that the quality of TV was outstanding. It makes me feel nostalgic for this part of the world.
I remember this happening on that Sunday morning 53 years ago. I was 20 years old at the time. In those days, here in Stoke on Trent, ABC Weekend Television was the company that provided the Saturday and Sunday programmes for ATV in the midlands and Granada in the north. We were watching a programme that morning (I can't remember what it was now) when suddenly, the screen went blank and a voice said that they were interrupting the programme to take us over live to Stockport. We then saw a presenter (I seem to recall it was John Edmunds) standing there holding a microphone and telling us that there had been an air crash.
I had never even heard of this Disaster, came upon this video by chance. It`s amazing what you can learn. My cousins wife had family that were on the British Midland Flight that crashed onto the Motorway embankment at Kegworth on January 1989. ABC Television, that brings back memories.
I too recall it, and was based in Newcastle, up the road. I remembered just two factors: there was found to be a fuel allocation problem, and that the pilot found a way to crash-land in an area least likely to hurt anyone on the ground. Good job, Mr Marlow.
I bought an original copy of the official police report from eBay for £40 - it is over 50 years old and it clearly described how the police had something akin to shellshock which we'd now recognise as PTSD.
is that available online? if not, you should consider scanning it or having it scanned and putting that up on archive.org. i try to share all the older pieces of literature that are niche and that probably won’t have the copyright pursued for the sake of accessibility, even if i paid a lot for it in the beginning. i can imagine anyone who was around the crash site enough helping people survive only to have thirty-some people die in the fire, or who was related to the survivors, or hell, obviously the survivors themselves likely developed PTSD after this accident. CFIT crashes in urban/suburbam areas always strike awe in me, especially with more modern planes. you don’t necessarily always think of the scale involved, you know? the pilot and co-pilot did their very best, at least, to crash it in what was a safer place than a little short or a little ahead of where they managed to crash. they got the least bad outcome when their situation went beyond a safe landing.
Tried as I did to scan it, the results were awful. My scanner is only A4 and the document is typed on fullscap so wouldn't fit in the scanner properly. As the document has been folded for 50 years it wouldn't sit straight on the glass plate so was very blurred when scanned. I couldn't do pages individually as that would mean moving a 50 year old rusty staple. To this end, I have tried to photograph each half page. It didn't work as well as I would want, but until I can get a friend to scan it properly using better equipment, here is a copy of the report on Dropbox. You may need to download or adjust images if not readable. sorry. www.dropbox.com/sh/7xa42une2u95zm7/AACJivGZ5QGwwlpwyM-jYkkAa?dl=0
A wonderful old school English version of a crash investigation. Wonderfully made, and it shows they did everything with no expense spared, so they could to get to the bottom of it. Too bad it had to happen and for all the human loss for something that was avoidable. Thank God for technology and new innovation. Such hard work made it possible to make aviation much more safe. People need to be made aware that the road to modern aviation was a rough road over the lives of many poor passengers and crew that died.
The dignity and composure of these remarkable survivors when calmly recalling their experiences of what must have been the most frightening and significant moment of their entire lives stands out as testimony to their character and is an absolute credit to them as fine human beings. 50 years on such stoicism has become quite a rarity where first considerations are dominated by the prospect of compensation. What a different world we live in today.
I worked for BM from 1988 to 1991, I was a young Trainee Avionics engineer. I remember some of the old avionics and electricians telling me about this accident and I can remember in dawning on me and thinking how important our jobs are and then Kegworth happened! I was in the pub when someone told me a BM flight had gone down short of the runway and into the M1, I felt physically ill and went into a cold sweat as I was convinced it must be one our old 737-100 or DC9's not one the brand new 737-400's. Almost all my work was on the old 737's and 9's! I can remember the relief ( and shock ) to find out it was one of the brand new aircraft!!! I'll never forget the atmosphere when I wandered into the hanger the next day!
I used to watch those BM DC9's going in and out of LBA, Worked there freightside later on. I passed the site at Kegworth on the motorway Northbound literally minutes before the crash. I got the cold sweats too when I heard about it, but for different reasons. The only time I flew with BM was in Viscount G-BMAT. LHR to LBA Another bird sadly lost due to a Crash, one that happened many years later.
Yes, I thought about Kegworth as well. Strangely, I do not recall the Stockport crash. I was a university student at the time. Airliner crashes were, sadly, rather frequent for a few more years yet, but I remember many of the place names where they happened.
I remember the Kegworth incident well. It was my first year at college and happened towards (the day before I think) the end of the christmas holidays, and so soon after the Lockerbie Pan Am atrocity at a time when the causes were still unknown.
I remember visiting the site after a few hours and (deceased) passengers were still being recovered from the wreckage. What my parents found quite sick and despicable were ice cream vans around the site selling their wares to onlookers! I was only 14 at the time and I still recall the day as I lived in Stockport at the time. For years later I had dreams about planes crashing.
I worked in a factory right next to the area that the plane crash-landed into. A tiny green valley of grass and trees surrounded on all sides by factory buildings it appeared that the captain had put the plane down in that small green area to avoid killing a lot more people that were working in the surrounding factory's.
@@CameramanStuart Thats just how it was back then, people didnt go looking for applause, shit just got done. I was 6 when this happened but lived the life of the background in this vid, just me and Mum left now, She is 94 and i'm glad I was born at the best time ever on this Planet IMO. Hard bastards back then. Sad story.
Well he wasn't single-handed for long: a number of civilians ran to help and then another few police officers arrived before the fire started and quickly ended all hope of getting more people out. None of them got any formal recognition, and most of them ended up with what we'd now recognise as PTSD.
@Karen Shaw Karen, I hope that at some point you will re-read this and recognise that most Americans, as well as British people, would feel that you should be ashamed by the comments that you have made, particularly in a public forum, dealing with a human tragedy and where it's possible for people actually involved in the accident and their close families to read your comments. Hopefully at that point you will realise that you have made a terrible mistake that offends a great many people on both sides of the Atlantic. I trust you will be able to forgive yourself and have the strength of character and decency to come back to this thread and offer a sincere apology. In the meantime best wishes but do think first before you get carried away writing more comments.
@Karen Shaw I think it is a mistake to use the tragedy of 9/11 as a cover for poor behaviour - that insults the people who died in that unconnected incident, as much as it does the families and survivors of this incident. This is about you and not them. Do think carefully before you write.
People...take it easy. "Karen Shaw" is a troll. Don't waste your time. I assure you, my global friends, Americans are not really like this. (well, some who are, but nobody really cares about them or pays attention to what they are saying...we mostly just laugh at them)
My dad was also an ambulance driver who attended the crash, he was based at Belle Vue ambulance station. he too rarely mentioned it for the rest of his life.
Probably no post-shift debrief, discussion or even councilling for those first responders as "they were made of sterner stuff in them days". Except they weren't. They may have suffered with undiagnosed PTSD or subsequent depression and just had to cope with it on their own. Stiff upper lip and all that.
someone posted the official report in this thread. Its a Chilling account of shock we now call PTSD. The paragraph where they talk about it ends with this. "I have never before witnessed this phenomenon in police officers."
This was very well done. However, there appears to be one comment that was misleading. The last scenario where it was stated that the captain, feathered the wrong engine (No. 3), leaves an incorrect impression that he made a mistake in doing that. Richard Clark, one of the investigators who discovered the RPM gauge on the No.3 and No. 4 engine was reversed, would lead the Captain to feather and.close down the engine with the lower RPM as a failed engine would display. He did that correctly since engine No.4 was displayed on engine No. 3’s needle. He shut down No. 3 per correct procedure. The real villain here is the mechanic who installed the gauge connectors backwards. If this had been done, the pilot would have feathered the correct engine. Unfortunately, it may not have prevented the crash due to the fuel selector change which would have the engines draw fuel from their respective wing tanks. The other strange thing in this review is that the fuel gauges are never referred to. Doesn’ the pilot check the level of his tanks during flight to insure their levels are consistent with normal usage? If all the fuel is on the starboard side wouldn’t that lead to a hell of a load on just one wing that could be detected when the pilot took control of the aircraft himself? It seems that the checklist would require, before the approach, with a call out on fuel in the tanks. Most pilots check fuel and always plan its usage so that when They are on approach, the fuel tanks are close to equal. It’s sort of an elementary item like breathing.
I agree I thought that too, they seem to have forgotten all together that the information he was receiving was false so he was blameless in that, also regarding the fuel loss, I think its because it was a slow process it wouldn't have been noticeable right away on the gauges, he may have been preoccupied with the radar operator waffling in his ear and trying to fix the performance of the engine that wasn't responding according to the information he was given from incorrectly fitted cables on the flight panel
I remember this accident vividly as my late father worked for British Midland. We had been travelling all that day and pre-mobile phones knew nothing about the accident. I turned on the Six O’ Clock news and the opening shot was of the distinctive DC-4 flight deck. I said “ Dad that’s one of ours” and I didn’t see him again for weeks as he was involved in all those investigations shown on this documentary.
At the time I was a young Police Officer in the station office at Ashton -u-Lyne Police station when I received a Teleprinter message asking if we knew the location of an aircraft that had just gone down. The Police officers at Stockport also had a tremendous problem with sightseers trying to get to the crash sight so much so they had difficulty in getting emergency service vehicles to the sight.
I lived just over a mile away then, and some years earlier, just over 100 yards away! It was a hell of a shock and initially, there was an urge to go and see what had happened, as I'd played there as a kid. But news reports asked people to stay away to help the emergency services and we respected that. After hearing the awful death toll and how people died, I couldn't face seeing that place until years later, when I finally went to pay my respects. I wish the sightseers of which there were many from outside Stockport, had done the same. Planes still pass over Stockport town centre, every few minutes - the runways should never have been aligned SW-NE when the airport expanded, due to the heavily populated area under the flight path. RIP all those who died.
Yes indeed. A real "Copper" One you could respect. Although I did note one 'senior officer' in the film with a spade make a complete ass of himself, then, probably the same one, later, just getting in the damn way. Some things never change. If they are useless: Promote them, out of harm's way. To themselves & the public.
@stephen morris Stephen there were plenty of 'ghouls and lemons' around that day too along with hot dog and ice cream vendors. They just didn't have mobile phones. They were no different then than they are now. Trust me, I spent my working life in the future service from 1970 and I can assure you that there were always those who got in the way. Only the terms for them have changed.
Really factual documentary without the dramatic narrative and music as is the norm nowadays, the people in it are fearless, makes me weep really as I remember my grandparents were of similar ilk
The massive shock of impact drove the memory of what happened shortly before impact deep into the Pilots subconscious. I cannot imagine the stress, anxiety and fear of handling such a terrible situation with the lives of passengers and locals on your watch, he did a grand job to control the uncontrollable.
Exceptional presentation and investigation. Sometimes I wish I could go and live in the black and white 1960s world as presented here. I was 5 when this all went down. This was when grown ups ruled the world.
I have vague memories of this accident. We lived in Stockport not too far from the accident site. I was about 5 years old and that Sunday morning we were out shopping in Stockport with my mother, who worked for BEA at Manchester airport. I remember seeing some of the aftermath of the accident. Very sad 😞
I was living in Stockport at this time and was a teenager. My friend and his widowed mother were returning from holiday on the aircraft and were both killed - burned to death in their own hometown. I had never known until now why they died. RIP the Williams family
I saw that plane coming over the roofs behind our house I thought it was going to hit our roof it was so low. I was about 14 at the time. It was on the actual flight path path but I will never forget that Sunday morning. I do have recurring dreams about seeing air craft coming down low and crashing. I often think of the passengers and crew.
My friend lived in Brinnington at the time and has much the same recollection as you. I remember going to the crash site, I seem to recall that it was in a hollow, surrounded by old buildings in the process of being demolished and was somewhere near Petersgate?
The balls of those investigators and pilots. Without computer simulation of the crash the only way to determine if a plane can fly without 2 engines is to get up there and have a go. If they couldn't get the engines started again and it was found they couldn't fly on just two then they'd have been gonners. Amazing video. Also the witnesses...How good are they in front of the camera...We were a different breed back then.
I love the way that those who survived got on with their lives and talked calmly about the events. In today's world, where everyone is always a victim, it wouldn't happen.
At least two BM Pilots DID know about the potential fuel problem. I suspect more or even all did. As a very young man, I was on board an Argonaut at MAN some time in the weeks before before this crash when I heard a Pilot being relieved, tell his colleague arriving to take over, that everything was ok, only ocurrence was they had had "the fuel problem", and say "I have not put it in the book". The relieving Pilot asked for no further explanation, in my hearing anyway. The relieved Pilot left the cockpit shortly afterwards. It is the lack of any questions that lead me to conclude that BM Pilots, like BA Pilots were aware.
These poor people knew they were going to die or probably would but they did not panic, according to survivors, which is a testament to their courage. RIP to all who perished and I hope the survivors have lived a full and enjoyable life.
My late father was one of the police officers who was at the scene of this accident. I remember him saying that they could have got more passengers out, except that many of them had broken ankles. It was this factor that led to them being trapped and burnt alive, not because they had any difficulty in undoing the seat belts. However seat belts in aircraft fastern and release in a different way than those fitted to british cars which might have caused some initial temporary confusion. These days this fact is included in the flight safety briefing given out by British cabin crew., which is one of the reasons why it is important to always pay attention to it. As I have been one serious fire and one explosion in a chemistry lab; whenever I go into to building , ship or aircraft I always check to see how I am going to get "my rear end" outside quickly in the event of an emergency The decision as whether to kiss the ground and "praise the Lord" as a finale is one best left to your own preference. P.S.Was there also not some problem with the way the aircraft seats were fasterned to the floor with several of the seats breaking away on impact?
@@leonardrogersrogers.leonar9722 Yes there was: many rows broke loose and piled unto each other, crushing passengers between them and breaking all their legs.
People dressing up and putting on their posh 'telephone' voices for the cameras. The world moves on - get over it! In case you didn't notice, only 4 of the survivors plus the capt went on film - the rest were probably too traumatised to appear. Today we would call it PTSD and counsel for it - back then...? If you'd nearly been killed in a plane crash and seen your relatives/friends die in front of you and/or been burnt in the wreckage, how stiff would your upper lip be? I'm guessing not very.
Nonsense. The issue is the cause of the crash. The reason only 4 survivors went on film was, as anyone watching the film would have seen stated, nobody had anything of value to state. There was no totally irrelevant dramatisation of peoples personal tragedies and dramas - totally irrelevant simply because the interest is in what happened BEFORE the crash, no hijacking of people's personal tragedy as the reporters person dramas in order to virtue signal, no obsession with the victim or the blame culture. > Today we'd be talking up survivors into assuming the "mental health" culture and making them feel there was something wrong if they did not suffer from PTSD and be lecturing others. Now you are trying to impose and assume a victim culture on people in order to virtue signal YOURSELF and lecture to others. Only a sicko would lecture others about an assumed tragedy hitting them in order to question how they'd respond in order to virtue signal through guesswork... in your words... "I'm guessing." Kindly cut the sick crap and if you need attention just post "Look at me, look at me!" and spare us your lurid fantancies of virtuosity through assumed tragedy in others.
Wow! What a well done documentary. The filmmakers did an excellent job of recreating for the viewers not only the investigation, but what the pilots likely face.
Indeed. I also appreciated being able to see the contributors' names featured in a readable format, rather than scrolling up at such a speed and in such tiny type as to be impossible to read.
My Mum's Great Aunti lived in one of the Cottages right near the crash site I can remember us going to the cottage to help clean up from all the rubble and glass after the crash I'll never forget that day
Brings back memories. I was a member at Denton GC and playing that day. Saw the aircraft really low not far away and thought it was in trouble. Later my worst fears were confirmed. A truly dreadful day.
Terrible for the pilot, a job you love in probably an aircraft he loved to fly, for ever with a question mark over one's head. I think brave just to appear in the documentary.
I see the removal of a propeller from site by the Accident Investigation Branch using a crane was nearly an accident itself. No PPE, no boundary tape, people all over the place near working machinery. What a world I used to live in!
I was 12 year old in 1967. I set off from Marple that morning to ride my bicycle to Manchester to see my grandparents and past where the plane crashed minutes before.
Hi Terence....I was 15...I remember that at the time I found it amazing that no one on the ground had died....in "the middle of Stockport".... Guess it was an industrial area that was deserted being a Sunday. How times have changed, eh?
@@patagualianmostly7437 The area is quite hilly and the land adjacent to Hopes Carr where the plane came down is actually a deep depression. It wasn't suitable for building on and I believe, still isn't.
I was working as a gas pump attendant at the Regent Station in Bredbury when this plane was flying over very low, the engines sounded like they were stalling as if they were running out of fuel. The plane was so low I could almost see passengers in the windows. I thought at the time the plane was in serious trouble to find out later it had crashed in Stockport.
Thanks for the upload. I live not too far away and don't recall ever hearing about this tragic accident before. As if Stockport wasn't grim enough at that time...
If you take the time to look at the readability available photographs of Stockport in the 60s the vast majority of the world’s population would agree that it looks considerably better than it does to day..
I was a young child living just a mile away at Ardenfield Street on Higher Hillgate when the crash happened. Could so easily have been our home the plane crashed on. The crew did an incredible job of getting to Hope's Carr, a small valley in the centre of town. Had they landed (crashed) anywhere else, it would have been far worse. Last I heard the Carr was to be left untouched as a lasting memorial to the victims.
I was living near Stockport at the time and remember hearing the airplane s it flew over. A school friend and his parents were all tragically killed, and I remember my father taking us to see the wreckage site some time after - as a form of closure, sad days.
@@williamruiz3533 The pen used to mark the crossfeed valve openning by the investigator, Bic pens have hardly changed since the 60's still the same old design.
Yes, thankfully some things have been allowed to be constant and understated. Unlike us Brits who seem to have gradually become more over dramatic, encouraged to emotional o[eness and extremes, borderline unhinged on occasions. Imagine if this ha[[ened today - everyone in a 10 mile radius of the crash site would be claiming com[o for trauma related mental conditions, {TSD, whi[-lash, turning to drugs and drink as a result of the emotional stress, suing the airline com[any and taking to the streets in [rotest about something, waving [lacards, riots, [olice [resence, scuffles, [olice brutality, the race card and so on. Oh, and don't forget the quares, they'd be in on it somehow! Media circus!
I worked with a guy who claimed to be the 1st on the scene. A stewardess walked out of the carnage relatively unscathed but obviously shocked. He described the interior of the aircraft (which I will spare you from), and it was obvious it was something he had not got over.
Brits have nearly always presented themselves as a 'stoic' people, and Americans seem to be more 'open' to being emotional to either further a cause, get attention, or just because they must. You are right us (I am American); the media has embraced the cornerstone of 'entertainment' than 'news' broadcasting. Our loss over time. Emotions sell, good for broadcasters' advertisers, and if heard often, they can influence facts or truth in a nasty manner. Thank you for being suspicious, Muonium. That's what will keep our country free.
I can just imagine a video made today about this crash. Endless discussions with survivors about how they feel and how it has changed their lives etc etc.This was brilliant! A blow by blow account of an investigation which was interesting despite its dated feel and lack of CGI. I could even just about bear the public school educated narrator.Bring back 60's tv!
That'll be because Richard Baker had been an actor before becoming a radio and later a TV presenter. The people responsible for writing the script took care to get things right and understandable by laymen.
Back then Britain's were brought up with the sense of having to maintain themselves in a calm manner in stressful situations. This is part of the reason why they were so successful as a nation. It's a good character trait to have. There are no hysterical people screaming and shouting like what we see today.
I couldn't agree more! Imagine if these had been American passengers: "I'm gonna get my lawyers on your British asses." Or: "Where the hell did that cop go, the one who carried me out of the plane? I think he stole my purse." Or: "So, dudes, WTF happened?" Etc., etc.
The difficulties of operating the poorly placed fuel valve selectors and the unclear determination of what had been selected that could cause inadvertent selection and fuel starvation had been reported by other Argonaut pilots before this tragedy happened, but neither British Midland or the two other Canadian airlines that operated the Argonauts reported it to the manufacturer! Not only that a fuel problem on this exact aircraft had been noted just five days earlier. Yes ultimately it comes down to human error, but by who? With regards to the usual and obvious go to ie the pilot, the AIB asserted that without it being reported to the manufacturer, then it would have been extremely difficult for the pilot to determine the exact nature of what was happening given the limited time in order to react and troubleshoot in mid flight and operation! If there was anything that could be said about the pilot then it was fatigue, given that he had been on duty for nearly 13 hours, which was legal at the time, but it isn’t now!
Indeed. We'd hope it was confusion on the fuel transfer Otherwise, flying near stall speed with a high AOA (according to witness), on two engines, and no mechanical issues found subsequently... I wonder about the amnesia.
With my brother and late father we went to Stockport Swimming Baths on the morning of the crash. We came out of the baths after our swim and got into my dad's car. Setting off back to Offerton we found ourselves unable to take our normal route home so my dad tried a few alternatives. We noticed police and emergency services all over the place but did not realise that the crash had happened until we got home to a very worried mum who had heard about the crash in Stockport town centre on the radio and feared that we might have been caught up in it. My grandmother lived in one of the block of flats mentioned and she had become aware of the crash very quickly. She went down to the crash site to help, what she thought she could do who knows (war generation I guess) but she saw some of the horrific aftermath. All in all a pretty sobering and frightening day for the town but truly awful for the aircraft passengers and crew. Somebody mentioned rubberneckers with their morbid curiosity and that was indeed true, I did get the impression that a lot of people were quite ashamed of that sort of behaviour
Our house is in Offerton but this was 5 months before I was born and my parents were on holiday at the time. However my step-sister and her family lived in the flats on Hall Street and they saw the Argonaut go past lower than they were.
The pilot was unbelievably calm!. Even at 500ft AND still miles from the airport he didn't say they wouldn't make it!. Why did he go round a second time before coming back for a second attempt?. The young blond lady in the video my dentist's secretary for year's, I only recognised her in an anniversary programme years after the awful event. A lovely lady.
Thank you for posting this very well-produced documentary. It offers the substantive and clear retelling of the facts and recollections, with no evident need for modern-day glitz, while remaining entertaining and very interesting.
I knew two guys they have both moved away from where I live now but they were only kids when they survived this crash . Harold Woods and Bill Woods , they were both nice guys they worked in their Mums pub she was called Gill , the pub was my local so knew them quite well . Very tragic she was waiting to pick them up from the airport , the father sadly died
Amazing footage of early FDR use and analysis. With no ability to run simulations in those days they flew the actual sortie profile to re-enact the aircraft flight characteristics. Fuel transfer error resulting engine fuel starvation. In the end there's never an accident there's always an aspect of human error, check double check and check again. Scary similarities to the British Midland 737 disaster at Kegworth in 1989.
What an excellent documentary, no 'dramatic' nonsense, no pointless music, just information presented clearly. I wish documentaries were still like this.
I agree 100%
Today's audiences apparently need to see the same dramatic reproduction of events repeatedly throughout a documentary, along with dramatic music and a shaky camera to emphasise the fear and panic. Oh, and small text at the bottom of the screen to confirm that it's a re-enactment, to clarify that there wasn't a camera crew on board at the time.
Exactly. I cannot watch those dramatic documentaries.
Indeed, a very good documentary, professional, no-nonsense or emotional veering off i.e. hysterics or finger pointing. Don't see this nowadays.
Yes me too.....
A fantastic documentary. No silly music, no sound effects, no silly dramatisations, just fact. 👏👏
a stark contrast to the Disaster series made in Canada. That one is awful
Yes. Couldn't agree more. The ridiculous over powering music often used in modern documentaries ruins things.
An excellent documentary. Treats the audience as adults who want to learn rather than patronising the audience like today’s docs.
YES! I thought the very same thing. I noticed how matter of fact it was and with no underlying agenda. It was informative and educational!
Yes, and they didn't show what the programme will be about, then repeat what it was about, in order to make a ten minute programme fill half an hour. Also the filming was about the subject - not simply following a 'celebrity' around, who spends most of their time gurning at the camera.
What is striking,viewing from today,is how articulate and calm those interviewed were ,and how professional the presentation seems .
Yes, David...The lovely tones of Richard Baker.
His voice is strictly neutral throughout.
When professionals knew the meaning of being "Professional."
That is what I thought immediately . No repeatedly saying you know or like, or any nervous fidgeting.
Today, reporters would be dramatic and sensationalist, and witnesses would be a driveling mess. Somewhere in time we lost a few steps.
It was the journalism of the era before hot buttons and sensationalism . Totally pro, clear diction, no colloquialisms. Originating in the UK and less distinct versions in the Commonwealth. And no one parodies it better than Eric Idol and his sidekicks :)
Yes a bit like my mum, with her 'telephone voice' and the real voice she used to deal with unruly kids!
I was in Stockport baths when people rushed in to grab all the stock of towels. That pilot deliberately dropped the plane in the only uninhabited area between the engine failure and the Ringway runway. His action saved countless lives on the ground if he had tried to limp on and crashed into a heavily populated area. Another few hundred yards on and I would not be writing this .
That´s one explanation. My understanding of crash is following: Plane reached stall speed and pilot must tried to increase angle of attack in order to clear obstacles and laminar flow of air around wings changed into nonlaminar causing sudden loss of lift and falling of airplane like stone.
@@milangacik994 pillot could have deliberately pulled the nose up to stall and fall there vs into buildings.
Finally, an investigation that I could understand easily. No waffling, computer graphics etc, just basic facts. Great video. RIP to those lost in the crash.
I hope someone gave that motorbike copper a medal, sounds like he saved quite a few that day.
He got zip, as did all the other people (some of them civilians, not emergency workers) who went to help. Just the way things were in those days.
@@MrHws5mp A lot of them had gone through WW2 and got zip too............
Excellent program.
No bombastic music, just the facts.
Clear and easy to follow.
Agreed, and notice not once did a "
What an excellent commentator Richard Baker was. I remember him introducing the proms. A pleasure hearing his voice again.
@@lon3don Here here. Always good at the proms. With that lop-sided wry smile of his.
What an excellent documentary! And such a different time when people simply gave an honest recounting of what happened from their point of view. No dramatics, no huge lawsuits...I miss this era!
An old bloke now. I remember it passing over our house like it was yesterday!
I'd forgotten just how good documentaries used to be. Just a straight forward narrative of known facts, presented clinically with out being sexed up with CGI or the promotion of an agenda. And yet remains a most sympathetic account of that dreadful day. Less can be more.
Unbelievable how unemotional the passengers were when they talked about their horrific injuries. No histrionics, no tears. Stiff upper lip!!!
That's what trauma does.
How dare people who've been through a tragic event show emotions!
Even though they had little info to assist the investigators, these ordinary people express themselves so clearly, so free of the "...like..." (and all the rest) BS of their modern equivalents. Maybe it's the language that I, as a boomer, was brought up with. Not saying that boomers are somehow superior. Maybe ability to articulate has declined for reasons connected with TV, popular culture & er modern media ?
@@daffyduk77 I couldn't agree more. Half of the TikTokers I can't understand, even though they're speaking English, because they speak so badly. Well, I could understand, if I really tried, but I can't be bothered. If someone can't be bothered to speak properly why should I listen? Someone speaking with a strong accent or with not English as their native language is different. And it's true that if you can't speak, you can't express yourself, and that leads to an impoverishment of your ideas.
It was the day of my 7th Birthday, my Aunt was coming to take me out for a big day of celebrations. As a 7 year old I had no idea what devastation had taken place to spoil my birthday. I just remember feeling very sad that my day had been ruined. Today, at 60, I realise that my birthday was a grain of sand compared to the 72 lives lost that day. The crash site was 1.2 miles from my home.
This is a great documentary. Full of technical facts clearly explained. Nowadays the documentaries are so dumbed down that there would be little technical stuff, they would be concentrating on trying to get victims to cry on camera.
This is absolutely fascinating to watch, in my opinion. I love the raw sound. Now I understand why ADHD is fueled. As a diagnosed person, with the “disorder,” I can watch this without ANY hint of anxiety despite its subject matter: an airplane disaster. 😊! The black and white format without all the extra music and background noise makes this somewhat soothing and enjoyable to watch. And it’s easier to digest all the technical information being examined. Thank you for sharing this documentary.
Yes, it's one of the best documentaries I have ever watched. No histrionics, no stupid music to keep the low-attention-span people from being diverted. If only all docus were done like this. The narrator was one of the clearest, has to be said
I turn off any news video with music on IMMEDIATELY.
If there were an Academy Award for Air Crash Videos this would get it.
What an absolutely first class documentary this is.
The forerunner to the AAIB were fascinating to see as they reconstructed the wreckage.
It is because of crashes like this that Cockpit Voice Recorders were made and installed, to give investigarors an idea of what was going on on the flight deck.
I remember this air crash I was seven years old, and my dad went down to Stockport to help. He had experience of aeroplanes from when he was in the RAF in the war. Looking at the old film I think I see him helping next to the wreckage, it was so sad one of the families where we lived lost there mum. Dad took his own life in 1975 and we think it is what he went through in the war.
This was an era when the BBC had first class commentators ,and they all spoke the queen's English ,not the twang of today
Yes and back then they were impartial and trustworthy, sadly thats all gone.
I have noted that some comments state that the pilot was faking amnesia & that it was obvious that his mistake caused the accident. As a retired police officer I am glad to say that the UK Justice System is not based on The Sus Laws. It is based on evidence. Long may it remain so. It is a weighty & dangerous responsibility to pass judgement on someone on the basis that they are obviously guilty by supposition alone. "Evidence evidence evidence lad" ... as my old Sgt used to regularly drum into me.
How right he was.
Hi Andy... I sincerely hope your old Sergeant also drummed into you: "REAL evidence Lad"
I suspect he did...and I am pleased he did.
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the Stephan Kizko.... Lesley Molseed case.
If ever there was a case of a miscarriage of justice by the "powers that be"...this is one of them.
I am an ardent believer in capital punishment.
With reservations.
Some people are beyond redemption and have no place in society.
You commit the ultimate crime:
You pay the ultimate price.
That aside, imagine if we had hung Stephan?
An innocent man condemned by bigoted police officers and a corrupt pathologist.
We have to strive to get better. it's that simple.
The DNA found the culprit. No margin for error.
The culprit in this case....murdered three people.
We must not forget this case. EVER.
It should be standard training material for ALL police officers...across the world.
Andy Lenton often the very people pretending to be reasonable, sensible, patriotic are the first to chuck our laws out of the window and demand lynch justice. Just look at the Republicans in the US!
@@billpugh58 Yes , the left would never rush to judgement . Always reasonable , open to other's opinions , tolerant and all-round good eggs.
@@billpugh58 valid observation there Bill,... it must be part of our human psyche to demand knee-jerk rushes to judgement. Maybe we do it to deflect from the dishonesty that we see lurking deep in our own hearts but can never admit to..... That is why the Rule of Law, though not faultless, will always be a better, fairer, safer system than Vigilanteism .
I once met a woman who was a nurse at that nearby hospital at the time. She had volunteered to babysit the children of a couple who had flown off to Majorca for a week’s holiday. Those parents were on that flight back and ended up being sent to the same hospital, and died, apparently because like many of the other passengers, their seats collapsed on impact trapping them by the ankles, while the remaining fuel burned around them. Terrible story.
Such is life-it can be terrible
I'm always amazed at the lengths air crash investigators will go to, to discover the real cause of accidents, as demonstrated here. It's because of that flying is as safe as it is today.
I was walking home through Stockport that afternoon without a inkling of what had happened 3 or 4 hours previously, so the sight of the wreckage came as quite a shock.
Riveting journalism and photography.
The surviving passengers who spoke were composed and articulate. They were not asked demeaning questions on their emotions.
A perfectly made documentary. Unlikely to be created today.
Those days corporates could kill with impunity, their surviving crippled victims to live in poverty
Stephen T And precisely what are you talking about ?
Dd you take it all in.
There was no intent. No definite negligence. Information sharing between airlines was non existent. It was the investigation of such crashes and the painstaking work done, that makes flying so safe today
I remember seeing this back in the late sixties. I was about 9 but always remember the name "Hotel Golf" which I thought sounded a bit James Bond like. This programme is possibly the best record of how the NorthWest was back in the sixties, the fashions, cars, houses and people. This programme shows that the quality of TV was outstanding. It makes me feel nostalgic for this part of the world.
I remember this happening on that Sunday morning 53 years ago. I was 20 years old at the time. In those days, here in Stoke on Trent, ABC Weekend Television was the company that provided the Saturday and Sunday programmes for ATV in the midlands and Granada in the north. We were watching a programme that morning (I can't remember what it was now) when suddenly, the screen went blank and a voice said that they were interrupting the programme to take us over live to Stockport. We then saw a presenter (I seem to recall it was John Edmunds) standing there holding a microphone and telling us that there had been an air crash.
I had never even heard of this Disaster, came upon this video by chance. It`s amazing what you can learn. My cousins wife had family that were on the British Midland Flight that crashed onto the Motorway embankment at Kegworth on January 1989. ABC Television, that brings back memories.
I too recall it, and was based in Newcastle, up the road. I remembered just two factors: there was found to be a fuel allocation problem, and that the pilot found a way to crash-land in an area least likely to hurt anyone on the ground. Good job, Mr Marlow.
Gosh, I recognize the country I grew up in. Engineering as a profession, British factories and test centers, British made aircraft, "BBC" English.
Sadly, the Policeman who said he was in his back garden in Gorton is a dying, no, makes that extinct breed. No Cop would live there any more.
Stephen Burnage I was sixteen then and I agree with you. It's a very different world now, better in some ways but definitely not in others.
An excellent thorough documentary,informative and well narrated.Wish they made them like this today!
I thought that whilst watching this too.
I feel like they weren’t as rushed back then to finish things in a hurry to beat others to the punch.
No hysterics, no sensationalism. Back when people had discipline and principles.
See, I dont need a recap, i sat and watched the whole thing from start to finish and I was fine without a recap every 5 minutes
👏
I bought an original copy of the official police report from eBay for £40 - it is over 50 years old and it clearly described how the police had something akin to shellshock which we'd now recognise as PTSD.
is that available online? if not, you should consider scanning it or having it scanned and putting that up on archive.org. i try to share all the older pieces of literature that are niche and that probably won’t have the copyright pursued for the sake of accessibility, even if i paid a lot for it in the beginning.
i can imagine anyone who was around the crash site enough helping people survive only to have thirty-some people die in the fire, or who was related to the survivors, or hell, obviously the survivors themselves likely developed PTSD after this accident. CFIT crashes in urban/suburbam areas always strike awe in me, especially with more modern planes. you don’t necessarily always think of the scale involved, you know? the pilot and co-pilot did their very best, at least, to crash it in what was a safer place than a little short or a little ahead of where they managed to crash. they got the least bad outcome when their situation went beyond a safe landing.
Yes, i can scan it. Once I've scanned it - I can upload a link here to Dropbox perhaps
J. A. McCready that would be awesome! thank you so much.
Tried as I did to scan it, the results were awful. My scanner is only A4 and the document is typed on fullscap so wouldn't fit in the scanner properly. As the document has been folded for 50 years it wouldn't sit straight on the glass plate so was very blurred when scanned. I couldn't do pages individually as that would mean moving a 50 year old rusty staple. To this end, I have tried to photograph each half page. It didn't work as well as I would want, but until I can get a friend to scan it properly using better equipment, here is a copy of the report on Dropbox. You may need to download or adjust images if not readable. sorry. www.dropbox.com/sh/7xa42une2u95zm7/AACJivGZ5QGwwlpwyM-jYkkAa?dl=0
www.dropbox.com/sh/7xa42une2u95zm7/AACJivGZ5QGwwlpwyM-jYkkAa?dl=0
The narrator is Richard Baker who presented the main BBC TV News bulletins for decades. He had such a lovely speaking voice.
Lemon curry?
Who gives a shit
carbonbodyworker: Fuck you!
I agree!
A wonderful old school English version of a crash investigation. Wonderfully made, and it shows they did everything with no expense spared, so they could to get to the bottom of it. Too bad it had to happen and for all the human loss for something that was avoidable. Thank God for technology and new innovation. Such hard work made it possible to make aviation much more safe. People need to be made aware that the road to modern aviation was a rough road over the lives of many poor passengers and crew that died.
The dignity and composure of these remarkable survivors when calmly recalling their experiences of what must have been the most frightening and significant moment of their entire lives stands out as testimony to their character and is an absolute credit to them as fine human beings. 50 years on such stoicism has become quite a rarity where first considerations are dominated by the prospect of compensation. What a different world we live in today.
I worked for BM from 1988 to 1991, I was a young Trainee Avionics engineer. I remember some of the old avionics and electricians telling me about this accident and I can remember in dawning on me and thinking how important our jobs are and then Kegworth happened!
I was in the pub when someone told me a BM flight had gone down short of the runway and into the M1, I felt physically ill and went into a cold sweat as I was convinced it must be one our old 737-100 or DC9's not one the brand new 737-400's. Almost all my work was on the old 737's and 9's! I can remember the relief ( and shock ) to find out it was one of the brand new aircraft!!!
I'll never forget the atmosphere when I wandered into the hanger the next day!
I used to watch those BM DC9's going in and out of LBA, Worked there freightside later on. I passed the site at Kegworth on the motorway Northbound literally minutes before the crash. I got the cold sweats too when I heard about it, but for different reasons.
The only time I flew with BM was in Viscount G-BMAT. LHR to LBA Another bird sadly lost due to a Crash, one that happened many years later.
Yes, I thought about Kegworth as well. Strangely, I do not recall the Stockport crash. I was a university student at the time. Airliner crashes were, sadly, rather frequent for a few more years yet, but I remember many of the place names where they happened.
I remember the Kegworth incident well. It was my first year at college and happened towards (the day before I think) the end of the christmas holidays, and so soon after the Lockerbie Pan Am atrocity at a time when the causes were still unknown.
I remember visiting the site after a few hours and (deceased) passengers were still being recovered from the wreckage. What my parents found quite sick and despicable were ice cream vans around the site selling their wares to onlookers! I was only 14 at the time and I still recall the day as I lived in Stockport at the time. For years later I had dreams about planes crashing.
Love this vid. So rare to get vintage footage on air crash subjects. Thanks for posting this. a great watch :)
I worked in a factory right next to the area that the plane crash-landed into. A tiny green valley of grass and trees surrounded on all sides by factory buildings it appeared that the captain had put the plane down in that small green area to avoid killing a lot more people that were working in the surrounding factory's.
On a sunday?
Why is that police officer not a national hero! Singlehandedly dragging survivors out before it caught fire. Hats off PC Bill Oliver.
In those days people just did their job. Nowadays one can become a "hero" for just doing one's job.
DP Again I totally agree regarding celebs etc, but I think PC Oliver went beyond just doing his job in this situation.
@@CameramanStuart Thats just how it was back then, people didnt go looking for applause, shit just got done. I was 6 when this happened but lived the life of the background in this vid, just me and Mum left now, She is 94 and i'm glad I was born at the best time ever on this Planet IMO. Hard bastards back then. Sad story.
Well he wasn't single-handed for long: a number of civilians ran to help and then another few police officers arrived before the fire started and quickly ended all hope of getting more people out. None of them got any formal recognition, and most of them ended up with what we'd now recognise as PTSD.
I wonder if Mr. Oliver is still with us.
another age but only a lifetime ago. The people were more deliberate, carefully spoken than we are today.
@Karen Shaw _"Well I think they sound dumb"_ And you are a Karen. Case dismissed.
@Karen Shaw Karen, I hope that at some point you will re-read this and recognise that most Americans, as well as British people, would feel that you should be ashamed by the comments that you have made, particularly in a public forum, dealing with a human tragedy and where it's possible for people actually involved in the accident and their close families to read your comments. Hopefully at that point you will realise that you have made a terrible mistake that offends a great many people on both sides of the Atlantic. I trust you will be able to forgive yourself and have the strength of character and decency to come back to this thread and offer a sincere apology. In the meantime best wishes but do think first before you get carried away writing more comments.
@Karen Shaw I think it is a mistake to use the tragedy of 9/11 as a cover for poor behaviour - that insults the people who died in that unconnected incident, as much as it does the families and survivors of this incident. This is about you and not them. Do think carefully before you write.
Karen Shaw why do you say “dumb”?
People...take it easy. "Karen Shaw" is a troll. Don't waste your time. I assure you, my global friends, Americans are not really like this. (well, some who are, but nobody really cares about them or pays attention to what they are saying...we mostly just laugh at them)
My dad was an ambulance driver back then and attended the crash. he rerely mentioned it. i've never seen this before, made me think about him.
My dad was also an ambulance driver who attended the crash, he was based at Belle Vue ambulance station. he too rarely mentioned it for the rest of his life.
Probably no post-shift debrief, discussion or even councilling for those first responders as "they were made of sterner stuff in them days". Except they weren't. They may have suffered with undiagnosed PTSD or subsequent depression and just had to cope with it on their own. Stiff upper lip and all that.
someone posted the official report in this thread. Its a Chilling account of shock we now call PTSD.
The paragraph where they talk about it ends with this.
"I have never before witnessed this phenomenon in police officers."
This was very well done. However, there appears to be one comment that was misleading. The last scenario where it was stated that the captain, feathered the wrong engine (No. 3), leaves an incorrect impression that he made a mistake in doing that. Richard Clark, one of the investigators who discovered the RPM gauge on the No.3 and No. 4 engine was reversed, would lead the Captain to feather and.close down the engine with the lower RPM as a failed engine would display. He did that correctly since engine No.4 was displayed on engine No. 3’s needle. He shut down No. 3 per correct procedure. The real villain here is the mechanic who installed the gauge connectors backwards. If this had been done, the pilot would have feathered the correct engine. Unfortunately, it may not have prevented the crash due to the fuel selector change which would have the engines draw fuel from their respective wing tanks. The other strange thing in this review is that the fuel gauges are never referred to. Doesn’ the pilot check the level of his tanks during flight to insure their levels are consistent with normal usage? If all the fuel is on the starboard side wouldn’t that lead to a hell of a load on just one wing that could be detected when the pilot took control of the aircraft himself? It seems that the checklist would require, before the approach, with a call out on fuel in the tanks. Most pilots check fuel and always plan its usage so that when They are on approach, the fuel tanks are close to equal. It’s sort of an elementary item like breathing.
Excellent points.
I agree I thought that too, they seem to have forgotten all together that the information he was receiving was false so he was blameless in that, also regarding the fuel loss, I think its because it was a slow process it wouldn't have been noticeable right away on the gauges, he may have been preoccupied with the radar operator waffling in his ear and trying to fix the performance of the engine that wasn't responding according to the information he was given from incorrectly fitted cables on the flight panel
Airplane fuel gauges are usually inaccurate, especially in piston engined airplanes of that era.
No pilot could rely on them being correct.
No. The harness connectors were also switched vice versa which corrected the error.
I remember this accident vividly as my late father worked for British Midland. We had been travelling all that day and pre-mobile phones knew nothing about the accident. I turned on the Six O’ Clock news and the opening shot was of the distinctive DC-4 flight deck. I said “ Dad that’s one of ours” and I didn’t see him again for weeks as he was involved in all those investigations shown on this documentary.
At the time I was a young Police Officer in the station office at Ashton -u-Lyne Police station when I received a Teleprinter message asking if we knew the location of an aircraft that had just gone down. The Police officers at Stockport also had a tremendous problem with sightseers trying to get to the crash sight so much so they had difficulty in getting emergency service vehicles to the sight.
Many people *might* have converged on the scene thinking they might have been able to help ? Not all ghoulish rubberneckers perhaps
Doubt it@@daffyduk77
I lived just over a mile away then, and some years earlier, just over 100 yards away! It was a hell of a shock and initially, there was an urge to go and see what had happened, as I'd played there as a kid. But news reports asked people to stay away to help the emergency services and we respected that. After hearing the awful death toll and how people died, I couldn't face seeing that place until years later, when I finally went to pay my respects. I wish the sightseers of which there were many from outside Stockport, had done the same. Planes still pass over Stockport town centre, every few minutes - the runways should never have been aligned SW-NE when the airport expanded, due to the heavily populated area under the flight path. RIP all those who died.
@@1947dave I agree entirely
Theres one Police Officer who earned his pay. Thankfully there are still Coppers like him.
Yes indeed. A real "Copper" One you could respect.
Although I did note one 'senior officer' in the film with a spade make a complete ass of himself, then, probably the same one, later, just getting in the damn way.
Some things never change.
If they are useless: Promote them, out of harm's way.
To themselves & the public.
@@patagualianmostly7437 Now Now! :-)
@stephen morris Stephen there were plenty of 'ghouls and lemons' around that day too along with hot dog and ice cream vendors. They just didn't have mobile phones. They were no different then than they are now. Trust me, I spent my working life in the future service from 1970 and I can assure you that there were always those who got in the way. Only the terms for them have changed.
Really factual documentary without the dramatic narrative and music as is the norm nowadays, the people in it are fearless, makes me weep really as I remember my grandparents were of similar ilk
The massive shock of impact drove the memory of what happened shortly before impact deep into the Pilots subconscious. I cannot imagine the stress, anxiety and fear of handling such a terrible situation with the lives of passengers and locals on your watch, he did a grand job to control the uncontrollable.
Exceptional presentation and investigation. Sometimes I wish I could go and live in the black and white 1960s world as presented here. I was 5 when this all went down. This was when grown ups ruled the world.
KebabMusicLtd exactly ..I think we have become accustomed to dumbed down media.
When grown ups ruled the world - how very true.
For our American friends, Britain didn't get colour TV until 1969 and even then it was only broadcast on a single channel!
I adore this series ❤️
Nothing overly dramatic, no horrible music
It's everything as it should be and just makes my heart happy
I have vague memories of this accident. We lived in Stockport not too far from the accident site. I was about 5 years old and that Sunday morning we were out shopping in Stockport with my mother, who worked for BEA at Manchester airport. I remember seeing some of the aftermath of the accident. Very sad 😞
I was living in Stockport at this time and was a teenager. My friend and his widowed mother were returning from holiday on the aircraft and were both killed - burned to death in their own hometown. I had never known until now why they died. RIP the Williams family
That's really sad, what a way to go 🙄
RIP
R.I.P.
My condolences, mate.
Sorry to hear that friend
I saw that plane coming over the roofs behind our house I thought it was going to hit our roof it was so low. I was about 14 at the time. It was on the actual flight path path but I will never forget that Sunday morning. I do have recurring dreams about seeing air craft coming down low and crashing. I often think of the passengers and crew.
My friend lived in Brinnington at the time and has much the same recollection as you. I remember going to the crash site, I seem to recall that it was in a hollow, surrounded by old buildings in the process of being demolished and was somewhere near Petersgate?
One of, if not the BEST recreation I've ever seen.
Props to the old bill on the motorcycle runs in to help no problem good man
The balls of those investigators and pilots. Without computer simulation of the crash the only way to determine if a plane can fly without 2 engines is to get up there and have a go. If they couldn't get the engines started again and it was found they couldn't fly on just two then they'd have been gonners. Amazing video. Also the witnesses...How good are they in front of the camera...We were a different breed back then.
Yep. And the airline actually providing the aircraft for the test... Would not happen now.
I mean you'd assume they'd be flying at safe enough height with a parachute to be able to bail
@@ottovonbismarck7715 No parachutes on airliners. Who would jump? The whole concept is stupid.
@@teksal13 I mean for the test pilot who's doing the test for if the plane can fly without engines. Incase everything goes wrong and they need to bail
@@teksal13 they were above fields after all !
I was a 10 year old staying with my aunt on Shawcross St when it crashed, I saw the plume of smoke from the crash.
I love the way that those who survived got on with their lives and talked calmly about the events. In today's world, where everyone is always a victim, it wouldn't happen.
These days if some snowflake breaks a fingernail they either get PTSD or whiplash!
At least two BM Pilots DID know about the potential fuel problem. I suspect more or even all did. As a very young man, I was on board an Argonaut at MAN some time in the weeks before before this crash when I heard a Pilot being relieved, tell his colleague arriving to take over, that everything was ok, only ocurrence was they had had "the fuel problem", and say "I have not put it in the book". The relieving Pilot asked for no further explanation, in my hearing anyway. The relieved Pilot left the cockpit shortly afterwards. It is the lack of any questions that lead me to conclude that BM Pilots, like BA Pilots were aware.
Seems that while they may have been aware of the fuel-problem, they didn't know what was causing it, but the manufacturer apparently did!
That magnificent tea-urn that wouldn't look out of place in a power station control room.
I immediately thought... "LMS Canteen at Crewe!"
I too remember the sound of the crash, as a child I had no idea what the noise was , I have never forgotten the noise.
These poor people knew they were going to die or probably would but they did not panic, according to survivors, which is a testament to their courage. RIP to all who perished and I hope the survivors have lived a full and enjoyable life.
My late father was one of the police officers who was at the scene of this accident. I remember him saying that they could have got more passengers out, except that many of them had broken ankles.
It was this factor that led to them being trapped and burnt alive, not because they had any difficulty in undoing the seat belts.
However seat belts in aircraft fastern and release in a different way than those fitted to british cars which might have caused some initial temporary confusion.
These days this fact is included in the flight safety briefing given out by British cabin crew., which is one of the reasons why it is important to always pay attention to it.
As I have been one serious fire and one explosion in a chemistry lab; whenever I go into to building , ship or aircraft I always check to see how I am going to get "my rear end" outside quickly in the event of an emergency
The decision as whether to kiss the ground and "praise the Lord" as a finale is one best left to your own preference.
P.S.Was there also not some problem with the way the aircraft seats were fasterned to the floor with several of the seats breaking away on impact?
@@leonardrogersrogers.leonar9722 Yes there was: many rows broke loose and piled unto each other, crushing passengers between them and breaking all their legs.
Cool, calm and dignified. No hysterics. No tattoos. Well dressed and ordered people. And this was only 60 years ago. What has happened to us?
Lawyers
People dressing up and putting on their posh 'telephone' voices for the cameras. The world moves on - get over it! In case you didn't notice, only 4 of the survivors plus the capt went on film - the rest were probably too traumatised to appear. Today we would call it PTSD and counsel for it - back then...? If you'd nearly been killed in a plane crash and seen your relatives/friends die in front of you and/or been burnt in the wreckage, how stiff would your upper lip be? I'm guessing not very.
Nonsense. The issue is the cause of the crash. The reason only 4 survivors went on film was, as anyone watching the film would have seen stated, nobody had anything of value to state. There was no totally irrelevant dramatisation of peoples personal tragedies and dramas - totally irrelevant simply because the interest is in what happened BEFORE the crash, no hijacking of people's personal tragedy as the reporters person dramas in order to virtue signal, no obsession with the victim or the blame culture. > Today we'd be talking up survivors into assuming the "mental health" culture and making them feel there was something wrong if they did not suffer from PTSD and be lecturing others.
Now you are trying to impose and assume a victim culture on people in order to virtue signal YOURSELF and lecture to others. Only a sicko would lecture others about an assumed tragedy hitting them in order to question how they'd respond in order to virtue signal through guesswork... in your words... "I'm guessing."
Kindly cut the sick crap and if you need attention just post "Look at me, look at me!" and spare us your lurid fantancies of virtuosity through assumed tragedy in others.
@@madandy3176 Could you repeat everything you said after Nonsense. I didn't quite hear it all. LOL
@@2terribletoads631 If you didn't even quite hear it at all then how do you know it was said?
Wow. "Let's go up in an exact same make of plane and recreate the exact conditions which led to a crash" ! That mustve taken some balls!
They were quite low for doing those stall tests.... I would have put another 10000 ft on that!
I hope they had parachutes.
Wow! What a well done documentary. The filmmakers did an excellent job of recreating for the viewers not only the investigation, but what the pilots likely face.
Indeed. I also appreciated being able to see the contributors' names featured in a readable format, rather than scrolling up at such a speed and in such tiny type as to be impossible to read.
I agree.
My Mum's Great Aunti lived in one of the Cottages right near the crash site I can remember us going to the cottage to help clean up from all the rubble and glass after the crash I'll never forget that day
Brings back memories. I was a member at Denton GC and playing that day. Saw the aircraft really low not far away and thought it was in trouble. Later my worst fears were confirmed. A truly dreadful day.
Terrible for the pilot, a job you love in probably an aircraft he loved to fly, for ever with a question mark over one's head. I think brave just to appear in the documentary.
I see the removal of a propeller from site by the Accident Investigation Branch using a crane was nearly an accident itself. No PPE, no boundary tape, people all over the place near working machinery. What a world I used to live in!
A lot of people helped that day disregarding their own safety to help pull people out of the wreckage. I can't imagine people doing that today.
I was 12 year old in 1967. I set off from Marple that morning to ride my bicycle to Manchester to see my grandparents and past where the plane crashed minutes before.
Hi Terence....I was 15...I remember that at the time I found it amazing that no one on the ground had died....in "the middle of Stockport"....
Guess it was an industrial area that was deserted being a Sunday.
How times have changed, eh?
@@patagualianmostly7437 The area is quite hilly and the land adjacent to Hopes Carr where the plane came down is actually a deep depression. It wasn't suitable for building on and I believe, still isn't.
@@Biffo1262
Thanks for that... much appreciated.
I lived in Ashton at the time. Was an immense shock to us all ...
We remember them all: RIP.
I was working as a gas pump attendant at the Regent Station in Bredbury when this plane was flying over very low, the engines sounded like they were stalling as if they were running out of fuel. The plane was so low I could almost see passengers in the windows. I thought at the time the plane was in serious trouble to find out later it had crashed in Stockport.
Hi my name is Phil I was on duty the day after with the police at Stockport sad day.
Incredible that nobody died on the ground, and that brave bobby was at the scene so quickly.
What a fantastic job they did in tracking down the cause of this horrible accident.
Thanks for the upload. I live not too far away and don't recall ever hearing about this tragic accident before. As if Stockport wasn't grim enough at that time...
Same here. I lived in Macclesfield and this is the first time I've heard of it.
Stockport is a really lovely northern town.
If you take the time to look at the readability available photographs of Stockport in the 60s the vast majority of the world’s population would agree that it looks considerably better than it does to day..
I was a young child living just a mile away at Ardenfield Street on Higher Hillgate when the crash happened. Could so easily have been our home the plane crashed on. The crew did an incredible job of getting to Hope's Carr, a small valley in the centre of town. Had they landed (crashed) anywhere else, it would have been far worse. Last I heard the Carr was to be left untouched as a lasting memorial to the victims.
Very sad for all the people involved in this accident. May they be at peace x
At peace? After 53 years they are more likely to be dead.
I was living near Stockport at the time and remember hearing the airplane s it flew over. A school friend and his parents were all tragically killed, and I remember my father taking us to see the wreckage site some time after - as a form of closure, sad days.
35:26 Many things have changed since the 60's but the instantly recognisable bic Cristal ballpoint pen is still the same.
HUH!?
@@williamruiz3533 The pen used to mark the crossfeed valve openning by the investigator, Bic pens have hardly changed since the 60's still the same old design.
Yes, thankfully some things have been allowed to be constant and understated. Unlike us Brits who seem to have gradually become more over dramatic, encouraged to emotional o[eness and extremes, borderline unhinged on occasions. Imagine if this ha[[ened today - everyone in a 10 mile radius of the crash site would be claiming com[o for trauma related mental conditions, {TSD, whi[-lash, turning to drugs and drink as a result of the emotional stress, suing the airline com[any and taking to the streets in [rotest about something, waving [lacards, riots, [olice [resence, scuffles, [olice brutality, the race card and so on. Oh, and don't forget the quares, they'd be in on it somehow! Media circus!
Invented by a Hungarian
Strangest comments section I have read in the last 5 minutes!
Well-done documentary; no soap opera-like reinactments.
Very thorough and enlightening documentary of a crash. Thanks for posting!
Fascinating. I was a young child living in Stockport when this happened. I remember it well.
I worked with a guy who claimed to be the 1st on the scene. A stewardess walked out of the carnage relatively unscathed but obviously shocked. He described the interior of the aircraft (which I will spare you from), and it was obvious it was something he had not got over.
Brits have nearly always presented themselves as a 'stoic' people, and Americans seem to be more 'open' to being emotional to either further a cause, get attention, or just because they must. You are right us (I am American); the media has embraced the cornerstone of 'entertainment' than 'news' broadcasting. Our loss over time. Emotions sell, good for broadcasters' advertisers, and if heard often, they can influence facts or truth in a nasty manner. Thank you for being suspicious, Muonium. That's what will keep our country free.
In the days when we were British, no fuss, no drama, just keep going.
British french swedish...what the hell happened to the europe? It all went to shitz so quickly...
I can just imagine a video made today about this crash. Endless discussions with survivors about how they feel and how it has changed their lives etc etc.This was brilliant! A blow by blow account of an investigation which was interesting despite its dated feel and lack of CGI. I could even just about bear the public school educated narrator.Bring back 60's tv!
The narrator is Richard Baker who was the son of a plasterer and went to state school in London. He's not posh, just well spoken
He was a great lover of classical music too. Didn't realise it was him. Thanks
the fact that this happened so close to a major broadcasting center, makes the actual footage so much more interesting?
I was there that day and saw the wreckage I was 14 years old I will never forget it
What was it like
Did you watch the video
Extremely good and informative documentary. So good to hear a well modulated, crisp and relaxed voice of the narrator.
Back in the day, they used people who could speak well in documentaries.
Another loss.
That'll be because Richard Baker had been an actor before becoming a radio and later a TV presenter.
That'll be because Richard Baker had been an actor before becoming a radio and later a TV presenter. The people responsible for writing the script took care to get things right and understandable by laymen.
Good documentary, and it's how documentaries to use to be made, factual, not showy or over using technology/effects.
Back then Britain's were brought up with the sense of having to maintain themselves in a calm manner in stressful situations. This is part of the reason why they were so successful as a nation. It's a good character trait to have. There are no hysterical people screaming and shouting like what we see today.
Britons*
Good point. Shame there are too many hysterical people around today, with no idea how to conduct themselves.
Oh my God! Oh noooo! oh my god no please no! oh nooo Goooood!
I couldn't agree more! Imagine if these had been American passengers: "I'm gonna get my lawyers on your British asses." Or: "Where the hell did that cop go, the one who carried me out of the plane? I think he stole my purse." Or: "So, dudes, WTF happened?" Etc., etc.
Marachenka
*Britons NOT Britain's.
Read more books to become fluent in the English language, and buy an Oxford and a Webster's dictionary.
Giles thank you for up loading this very interesting documentary. Drawn to watching this by the commentary by Richard Baker.
The difficulties of operating the poorly placed fuel valve selectors and the unclear determination of what had been selected that could cause inadvertent selection and fuel starvation had been reported by other Argonaut pilots before this tragedy happened, but neither British Midland or the two other Canadian airlines that operated the Argonauts reported it to the manufacturer! Not only that a fuel problem on this exact aircraft had been noted just five days earlier.
Yes ultimately it comes down to human error, but by who? With regards to the usual and obvious go to ie the pilot, the AIB asserted that without it being reported to the manufacturer, then it would have been extremely difficult for the pilot to determine the exact nature of what was happening given the limited time in order to react and troubleshoot in mid flight and operation!
If there was anything that could be said about the pilot then it was fatigue, given that he had been on duty for nearly 13 hours, which was legal at the time, but it isn’t now!
Indeed. We'd hope it was confusion on the fuel transfer Otherwise, flying near stall speed with a high AOA (according to witness), on two engines, and no mechanical issues found subsequently... I wonder about the amnesia.
I wonder what it was like living in a country where the government governed the country, and not corporations.
With my brother and late father we went to Stockport Swimming Baths on the morning of the crash. We came out of the baths after our swim and got into my dad's car. Setting off back to Offerton we found ourselves unable to take our normal route home so my dad tried a few alternatives. We noticed police and emergency services all over the place but did not realise that the crash had happened until we got home to a very worried mum who had heard about the crash in Stockport town centre on the radio and feared that we might have been caught up in it. My grandmother lived in one of the block of flats mentioned and she had become aware of the crash very quickly. She went down to the crash site to help, what she thought she could do who knows (war generation I guess) but she saw some of the horrific aftermath. All in all a pretty sobering and frightening day for the town but truly awful for the aircraft passengers and crew. Somebody mentioned rubberneckers with their morbid curiosity and that was indeed true, I did get the impression that a lot of people were quite ashamed of that sort of behaviour
Our house is in Offerton but this was 5 months before I was born and my parents were on holiday at the time. However my step-sister and her family lived in the flats on Hall Street and they saw the Argonaut go past lower than they were.
The pilot was unbelievably calm!. Even at 500ft AND still miles from the airport he didn't say they wouldn't make it!. Why did he go round a second time before coming back for a second attempt?. The young blond lady in the video my dentist's secretary for year's, I only recognised her in an anniversary programme years after the awful event. A lovely lady.
Many thanks for the upload, Giles - that was both absorbing and fascinating.
Thank you for posting this very well-produced documentary. It offers the substantive and clear retelling of the facts and recollections, with no evident need for modern-day glitz, while remaining entertaining and very interesting.
I knew two guys they have both moved away from where I live now but they were only kids when they survived this crash . Harold Woods and Bill Woods , they were both nice guys they worked in their Mums pub she was called Gill , the pub was my local so knew them quite well . Very tragic she was waiting to pick them up from the airport , the father sadly died
Amazing footage of early FDR use and analysis. With no ability to run simulations in those days they flew the actual sortie profile to re-enact the aircraft flight characteristics. Fuel transfer error resulting engine fuel starvation. In the end there's never an accident there's always an aspect of human error, check double check and check again. Scary similarities to the British Midland 737 disaster at Kegworth in 1989.
Amazing that this documentary wasn't taped over to conserve videotape. Richard Baker's commentary worthy of note.
Chrisst It was made on film not tape.
Chrisst yes I thought it sounded like Raymond Baxter but I think you’re right