This is rampant in my field, STEM, where intellectual one-upmanship is tolerated and abrasive personality styles are rampant. I don't expect social butterflies in my field, but I've had so many unsympathetic and also self-invalidating leaders that it tends to trickle down and eventually you have to separate your self worth from your job or you turn into them or get imposter syndrome. That's also why personal projects are so important. Just a tip, don't share these projects with those types of one-uppers while it's still in development so you don't lose motivation. I know it's tempting to try to get validation from an extremely invalidating person but it's probably the worst thing you can do
Yooo this is my experience too 😅 I've just started my career in STEM and good God I'm thinking of quitting because of this. It's toxic and just sucked the creativity out of me.
You guys are my heroes. So much warmth, compassion, joy, and just downright practical wisdom. This one is hitting home on so many levels. Thank you both!
Being the chillest at the table and being all interested in others might work for males. Talk about various gender biases in this context. Often women are even more ignored when we do the Chill Curious routine. And it does sound like a routine to me. Sounds like yet another mask to wear which rubs against your bid for authenticity kind of strangely. By the way, LOVE Stephanie Foo's book which I heard about here. She is basically me. Couldn't believe the exact parallels including assigning the word "dread" to that gnarly, inescapable mix of anxiety and fear and sludge she describes. Thanks for the good vids. You guys are great.
the most interesting thing i did not know that this became a “ syndrome” when women enter the workforce in a patriarchal capitalistic society. it wasn’t mentioned as a misogynist tactic but i think it is after the unpacking of this - so thanks for putting this out there - helpful indeed
Thank you so much for this discussion on imposter syndrome. This is the most enlightening take I have heard about it. I have been struggling with it as the first from my family with a PhD. The not-belonging part in academia and fear of exposure spoke most to me. And the wisdom to aim for mid-range performance and seek out safe others, true peers to protect oneself from pernicious comparison. This is very helpful and validating.
My imposter syndrome comes a lot from my parents. Those despicable toxic parasites that I had to call parents. Loads of criticism, high expectations and be perfect. They also used shame and guilt. So I've been changing that perception of what they put on me and which is not reality.
Isn't imposter syndrome also about the social conext as it is as much about the individual who experiences it.For instance of you come froma certain class or marginalised group that has traditionally been excluded from certain settings are more likely to feel imposter syndrome"so its as much about the social structure which makes some feel included and on the inside and others feel ...well "othered"and that they don't belong. Then you mentioned the evolution of the term imposter syndrome with more women entering higher levels in the workplace and then the term made sense,Ofcourse people who have tradtionally been exlcuded and postively discouraged from being in certain places and which are not designed for thm or their needs are more likely to feel imposters". What term do we have for "entitlement syndrome"...is that even a thing for those people who take for granted they belong in certain places,especially ones with power and position and who are brought up to think they are natural born leaders and should take up positions of power and authority. Surely imposter syndrome is strongly related to power structures and ideas about who should have power and who should not.
I also appreciate the discussion. Some of my thoughts: I feel there has to be a readiness before one gets to lead something... they maybe nervous to do it for the first time BUT they know that they know their material very well and on the inner plane they feel confident, but that it is the performance aspect that is causing them shakiness. BUT. also... If they do not have the grounding within yet, to be in that position, then the audience will pick on that easily - knowing that they re not ready yet and that they are not confident in what they know. OR hopefully, if they are set up with maybe beginners with whom they can connect easily because they are still going through the foundational stages. ... so there is a camaraderie of being in the same level but being ahead. To perform has to be gradual I feel so a person can feel confident and more secure in who they are and what they know and in presenting or directing a class etc... it takes practice even when one is ready to get over the jitters. Are we talking about fake it till you make it??
I Love the way you to speak with each other. Even a difference of viewpoint is handled with care, respect and open minds. I feel that you practice what you preach and I'm well impressed by the father-son dialog. Thank you for the Great content and examples of behaviour!
So important. I’m so glad you brought up the class-related stuff. I kind of got lifted out of poverty onto a Hollywood movie set and then spent months in post-production making a bunch of creative work, and it’s just been a real mind trip to try and internalize the width and breadth of my accomplishment-very often I feel as though I was very lucky or everyone who brought me on board was exceedingly gracious, and with a lot of money riding on my work, I often felt like I was not up to the task. It’s so easy to default to black-and-white thinking around this stuff, but I’m hopeful that the experience of having done this once will serve as a reference point for next time.
I’m also really starting to see what you mean around navigating social situations. Like, I’ve just decided to be quiet and breathe and relax and if something or someone genuinely catches my attention, I’ll engage. But it’s made me start to see how desperate most people are to talk constantly at things like parties and mixers
You don't have to reveal yourself and/or your work if you don't want to, but since i am in a similar field and with similar background i would love to see what you worked on (and what precisely, since I'm a nerd haha) and how you got there. Would you be open to explain a bit more of it?
@@karlsaintlucy I don't even care about the movie, like, are you a matte painter? Do you have a special nuke pipeline? Are you a compositor? How is your job called in the end screen? 😬
Why I don't feel "qualified" is I'm always told "oh, you can do better" or "you can do more" which in no way reinforces that I am qualified, only makes me feel like I'm constantly being told "you need to know more, you don't know enough, you are not qualified." It sucks.
Hearing the steps of the cycle was really helpful. I find I procrastinate then over prepare. But of course it’s not enough because if I hadn’t procrastinated I could have gotten x x and x done. Wow! This whole talk was so helpful. Thank you!
I find this podcast really soothing. It was really helpful the stuff about actually being an outsider and what to do when you actually are an outsider.
Gentlemen (please correct my pronoun assumptions if applicable), I'm a fan of your podcast and have learned a ton from you and your guests. Thank you. Great episode, I'll try to be brief: The normalization and detailed description of the experience of "IS", I believe, is a balm to those listening who may be experiencing it acutely (this would be me in an earlier season of life, and will be me again no doubt). The emphasis on turning toward oneself as an individual is right on. As someone not experiencing IS acutely, I found myself yearning for content from your previous work, specifically positive, humanistic description (not sure of the episode#) of ferality and the Wilderness of the self. One's own dynamic wildness; and the notion that: -while there are patterns and similarities that can be described in your version of IS, YOU, dynamic, unknown YOU has never happened before- and will never happen again. For me (as long as I'm not in a panic), this is empowering. -accordingly, my specific flavor of self-doubt is unique AND I have the freedom to solve a problem in my own unique way. Yes! Judy could have done x better. That is Judy's uniqueness; what is the way in which I tend to hit out-of-the-park homers? -Not that we are alone in uncovering our strengths ~ Guidance, mentorship, interdependency, feedback are all integral to the process. A nod to the vulnerability Dr. Hanson described at the Meditation Training; "wow, Judy, you are awesome at that. How did you go about it?" -This is a study somewhere (I can't remember if I heard about it on your show)... when people were empowered as the sole decision maker in fictional problem situations, after the fact they tended to rate their chosen solution more favorably than other proposed solutions. Often deep down we tend to know what's best; it's giving ourselves permission that's hard (and you did speak to this in essence). Lastly I have to mention that in my own experience, I experience IS less when I am lit up about what I'm doing! In community, we can help fight IS by helping ourselves and others find our spark! Notice when we light up, and affirm others when we glimpse their enthusiasm! I bicycle in a way that, perhaps, is akin to how Forest dances. I know what I can do and what I'm not great at. If there is a cycling problem that is within my strength area, I will push myself toward growth and ultimately a success that is easier for me to acknowledge and accept (to 'sit with, stand in' as Dr. Hanson said). I tend not to be as self-critical in these situations. And when faced with a cycling problem where I'm weak, I tend to laugh more easily at my shortcomings. Speaking of strength areas, brevity is not one of them, gah. Thank you both, very much, I am and have been greatly aided by your work and your insight.🙏
I completely agree with Rick (in his crankiness 😊). As a psychiatrist I get contacted by several organisations a week, offering me a lot of money to do ADHD assessments (which I turn down). Before you want a diagnosis, consider who’s benefitting?
Speaking to syndrome creep, everyone apparently has ADHD now. I had a late diagnosis but it has been suspected all my adult life and heavily debilitated me in my youth. I also had other things that confirmed my diagnosis such as the effect of prescribed medications and self medicated drugs. I have also come to know that CPTSD exhibits symptoms similar to ADHD or Autism. Like inability to pay attention, sensory sensitivity, emotional reactivity, etc etc. My theory is that we as a society are largely traumatized and social media has led to mass self-diagnosis, but the common person has trouble discerning what their symptoms are actually caused by.
Lot of people exploring the rise in rates of "mental illness" right now, with many different takes on why it's happening. And you're right, ADHD/CPTSD/ASD can have a fair amount of symptom overlap.
Great conversation. What Forrest says at about 31:00 about fear and the mask, yes. So 'it is what it is' and I've let it go. I'm just myself, with my secrets of inadequacy, so what. I don't have to bash or promote myself to anyone, nor prove I'm valuable. I've earned where I am, & did my best. I just am who I am and mindfulness has REALLY helped me embrace that. So what Rick said about being the one who is least trying to impress - even with smarter, richer, or more educated or more cultured people than me - that's me post-Mindfulness... everyone puts their pants on one leg at a time so to speak. I share that with Rick! Love that. Yes, Forrest - you're A+++ as soon as you are YOU!!! Authenticity puts you in the "highest highest" bucket. And I love the points you raise from your learning journey.
When you defined "imposter syndrome" during the recap, you said high-achieving people are particularly prone to it. Then I started thinking "well I'm not in that category...wait, is making that statement imposter syndrome?" lol. Anyway, this got me thinking: what is the definition of "high achieving"? For example, a young adult earns their Bachelors degree from a university. If their family is full of Masters and PhD holders, their family might be happy for them but see the Bachelor's degree as a small step in a long upcoming process. However, if this young adult was a first-generation college student, like maybe they're the first in their family to finish college or high school, earning that Bachelor's degree would be considered a huge achievement in this family and a fine last step in formal education. Maybe you mentioned this in the episode or maybe it fits with social/cultural variables, but defining "high achieving" can be very subjective too. Complicated stuff.
It's a great question. With "imposter syndrome" the premise is that there's not a performance-based reason for the person to feel the way that they do...but as you're saying what qualifies as "high performance" can differ radically based on context.
Wow wow wow this episode spoke so to me. I was able to let go of so much especially the external need to compare myself to others. I have been working on these issues all my life but now feel the internal strength to be the authentic me and drop the mask. Yes Forest being you has improved the range of depth on issues you cover.
I love the idea of branding the gimmick of boring self-help! Reminds me of before RUclips when I wanted to make a magazine like Architectural Digest but just about my artist friends houses. Anyway. I like doing things that counteract the gaping maw that demands a peak experience and perfection. And I like that you are understanding this too. Thank you for giving words and structure to what we might do more of! Authenticity! Great episode.
How do you deal with a situation where you made a small mistake or you weren't perfect and it DOES lead to you being ostracized in a way that's even worse than anything you imagined? This happened to me in my last job and it's been such a huge setback for me. I didn't do well in an internal job interview and it was not okay and led to me losing my job, being ghosted by my supervisor/management, and implicitly being denied a reference. This was a very elitist organization and I was their 'local hire' who didn't grow up in the right neighbourhood, go to the right schools, or know the right people. I wasn't privileged enough to have problems (like depression). If I wanted to make it there, I had to be extraordinary. After the failed interview, coworkers told me about all the interviews they failed within the organization and how it was totally okay. Turns out, it was only okay for them.
Not a failed interview from my perspective. They just don’t get you and value surface externals. I’ve been there so I do get it. The work world can be a treacherous place and it’s tough to find “your home.” Find it in your core competencies, moral compass, and the way you treat others. This is what counts. You sound like an amazing person to me. Wishing you well….for myself, I started my own business and work from home!
I might try saying, the next time someone is speaking meanly to me, "Hey I'm not really feeling like I'm in your heart right now!" And then step back and to the side, just in case . . .
Please do your research on the history of "autism" and "Asperger's Syndrome." Besides the questionable historical associations to Nazism, anyone whose lived experience lines up with the clear clusters of autism: sensory differences, social and emotional challenges, and deep interest in favored topics, will not appreciate being told they're "not really" having that lived experience! There are plenty of neurodivergent-affirming resources to learn from!
Your father made the comment that, Cliches may be a good topic of discussion for an episode..That caught my attention. I think that cliches would be a GREAT topic..Cliches have some truth. However, they are commonly used pretentiously, often used by people who want to appear more evolved than they really are. Cliches are often used as a substitute for actual understanding, spiritual bypassing(another cliche.lol) although, they usually hold some truth..I don't think I've ever seen a discussion devoted to this one exact topic..Very interesting!!
I think Rick misses the point that this is often experienced by women in work settings. I definitely experienced impostor syndrome and so did many of my coworkers who are women. Thanks for getting it, Forrest. I do understand the point about overpathologizing things to stake out a corner in self-help or psychology. Syndrome may be too strong of a word here.
5:00 why would you pat someone on the back for getting diagnosed as neuro atypical? That sounds terribly infantilizing and coddling. This isn’t gonna be helpful in the long run cause it will just make an addicting sense of relief rather than getting stronger in truth. I’m more with the “cranky dad” who wasn’t cranky at all but actually balanced.
![[#2024MAMA] BIGBANG (빅뱅) - 뱅뱅뱅 (BANG BANG BANG) + FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EQsYfiPR9uM/mqdefault.jpg)
This is rampant in my field, STEM, where intellectual one-upmanship is tolerated and abrasive personality styles are rampant. I don't expect social butterflies in my field, but I've had so many unsympathetic and also self-invalidating leaders that it tends to trickle down and eventually you have to separate your self worth from your job or you turn into them or get imposter syndrome. That's also why personal projects are so important. Just a tip, don't share these projects with those types of one-uppers while it's still in development so you don't lose motivation. I know it's tempting to try to get validation from an extremely invalidating person but it's probably the worst thing you can do
Thank You. That was really good. I will.THINK.about that before I find myself beating my own head on a brick wall.
Yooo this is my experience too 😅 I've just started my career in STEM and good God I'm thinking of quitting because of this. It's toxic and just sucked the creativity out of me.
Wow, what a wise empathetic father you have. Dad like that is a treasure ☀️ and thank you for sharing him with us
You guys are my heroes. So much warmth, compassion, joy, and just downright practical wisdom. This one is hitting home on so many levels. Thank you both!
Best channel I recently found in many years, thank you
Being the chillest at the table and being all interested in others might work for males. Talk about various gender biases in this context. Often women are even more ignored when we do the Chill Curious routine. And it does sound like a routine to me. Sounds like yet another mask to wear which rubs against your bid for authenticity kind of strangely. By the way, LOVE Stephanie Foo's book which I heard about here. She is basically me. Couldn't believe the exact parallels including assigning the word "dread" to that gnarly, inescapable mix of anxiety and fear and sludge she describes. Thanks for the good vids. You guys are great.
the most interesting thing i did not know that this became a “ syndrome” when women enter the workforce in a patriarchal capitalistic society. it wasn’t mentioned as a misogynist tactic but i think it is after the unpacking of this - so thanks for putting this out there - helpful indeed
This is an excellent episode, I'm scriptwriting and my brain finds any way to psyche itself out
Thank you so much for this discussion on imposter syndrome. This is the most enlightening take I have heard about it. I have been struggling with it as the first from my family with a PhD. The not-belonging part in academia and fear of exposure spoke most to me. And the wisdom to aim for mid-range performance and seek out safe others, true peers to protect oneself from pernicious comparison. This is very helpful and validating.
My imposter syndrome comes a lot from my parents. Those despicable toxic parasites that I had to call parents. Loads of criticism, high expectations and be perfect. They also used shame and guilt. So I've been changing that perception of what they put on me and which is not reality.
Hey sorry that you went through that , how is it now ?
@@kaoutar6921 Still working on it. Unfortunately, years of abuse don't get "erased" that quickly.
I really love these podcasts. The dynamic between you two really opens up the topics well for me. Please keep em coming! 😍
I always enjoy your podcasts!
Yes please do a guide and that for sure won't be boring. So often we are not taught or don't understand how to live.
Your dad reminds me of Mr Rogers❤ I didn’t grow up with healthy interactions so it’s helpful and soothing to watch you two interact.
Love the comparison
Isn't imposter syndrome also about the social conext as it is as much about the individual who experiences it.For instance of you come froma certain class or marginalised group that has traditionally been excluded from certain settings are more likely to feel imposter syndrome"so its as much about the social structure which makes some feel included and on the inside and others feel ...well "othered"and that they don't belong.
Then you mentioned the evolution of the term imposter syndrome with more women entering higher levels in the workplace and then the term made sense,Ofcourse people who have tradtionally been exlcuded and postively discouraged from being in certain places and which are not designed for thm or their needs are more likely to feel imposters".
What term do we have for "entitlement syndrome"...is that even a thing for those people who take for granted they belong in certain places,especially ones with power and position and who are brought up to think they are natural born leaders and should take up positions of power and authority.
Surely imposter syndrome is strongly related to power structures and ideas about who should have power and who should not.
Well said. Clarification is definitely needed and certain words need to be changed. 🙌🤯🙏🏼❤️
Absolutely, that's where we started the conversation. These constructs are based on their social/cultural/economic context.
I also appreciate the discussion. Some of my thoughts: I feel there has to be a readiness before one gets to lead something... they maybe nervous to do it for the first time BUT they know that they know their material very well and on the inner plane they feel confident, but that it is the performance aspect that is causing them shakiness. BUT. also...
If they do not have the grounding within yet, to be in that position, then the audience will pick on that easily - knowing that they re not ready yet and that they are not confident in what they know. OR hopefully, if they are set up with maybe beginners with whom they can connect easily because they are still going through the foundational stages. ... so there is a camaraderie of being in the same level but being ahead.
To perform has to be gradual I feel so a person can feel confident and more secure in who they are and what they know and in presenting or directing a class etc... it takes practice even when one is ready to get over the jitters.
Are we talking about fake it till you make it??
Totally identified with Dr. Rick story !! I was in the same shoes. Both of you are great !
I Love the way you to speak with each other. Even a difference of viewpoint is handled with care, respect and open minds. I feel that you practice what you preach and I'm well impressed by the father-son dialog. Thank you for the Great content and examples of behaviour!
So important. I’m so glad you brought up the class-related stuff. I kind of got lifted out of poverty onto a Hollywood movie set and then spent months in post-production making a bunch of creative work, and it’s just been a real mind trip to try and internalize the width and breadth of my accomplishment-very often I feel as though I was very lucky or everyone who brought me on board was exceedingly gracious, and with a lot of money riding on my work, I often felt like I was not up to the task. It’s so easy to default to black-and-white thinking around this stuff, but I’m hopeful that the experience of having done this once will serve as a reference point for next time.
I’m also really starting to see what you mean around navigating social situations. Like, I’ve just decided to be quiet and breathe and relax and if something or someone genuinely catches my attention, I’ll engage. But it’s made me start to see how desperate most people are to talk constantly at things like parties and mixers
You don't have to reveal yourself and/or your work if you don't want to, but since i am in a similar field and with similar background i would love to see what you worked on (and what precisely, since I'm a nerd haha) and how you got there. Would you be open to explain a bit more of it?
@@derAtze You’ll see soon :-)
@@karlsaintlucy I don't even care about the movie, like, are you a matte painter? Do you have a special nuke pipeline? Are you a compositor? How is your job called in the end screen? 😬
Why I don't feel "qualified" is I'm always told "oh, you can do better" or "you can do more" which in no way reinforces that I am qualified, only makes me feel like I'm constantly being told "you need to know more, you don't know enough, you are not qualified." It sucks.
Yeah. Those strange backhanded compliments are hard to take as praise. I know what you mean.
I'm glad to hear this discussion, as imposter syndrome never described how I felt, but inadequacy and self-doubt did
Hearing the steps of the cycle was really helpful. I find I procrastinate then over prepare. But of course it’s not enough because if I hadn’t procrastinated I could have gotten x x and x done. Wow! This whole talk was so helpful. Thank you!
Thank you for normalizing and breaking down this "syndrome" into manageable parts to address
I find this podcast really soothing. It was really helpful the stuff about actually being an outsider and what to do when you actually are an outsider.
Gentlemen (please correct my pronoun assumptions if applicable), I'm a fan of your podcast and have learned a ton from you and your guests. Thank you.
Great episode, I'll try to be brief:
The normalization and detailed description of the experience of "IS", I believe, is a balm to those listening who may be experiencing it acutely (this would be me in an earlier season of life, and will be me again no doubt).
The emphasis on turning toward oneself as an individual is right on. As someone not experiencing IS acutely, I found myself yearning for content from your previous work, specifically positive, humanistic description (not sure of the episode#) of ferality and the Wilderness of the self. One's own dynamic wildness; and the notion that:
-while there are patterns and similarities that can be described in your version of IS, YOU, dynamic, unknown YOU has never happened before- and will never happen again. For me (as long as I'm not in a panic), this is empowering.
-accordingly, my specific flavor of self-doubt is unique AND I have the freedom to solve a problem in my own unique way. Yes! Judy could have done x better. That is Judy's uniqueness; what is the way in which I tend to hit out-of-the-park homers?
-Not that we are alone in uncovering our strengths ~ Guidance, mentorship, interdependency, feedback are all integral to the process. A nod to the vulnerability Dr. Hanson described at the Meditation Training; "wow, Judy, you are awesome at that. How did you go about it?"
-This is a study somewhere (I can't remember if I heard about it on your show)... when people were empowered as the sole decision maker in fictional problem situations, after the fact they tended to rate their chosen solution more favorably than other proposed solutions. Often deep down we tend to know what's best; it's giving ourselves permission that's hard (and you did speak to this in essence).
Lastly I have to mention that in my own experience, I experience IS less when I am lit up about what I'm doing! In community, we can help fight IS by helping ourselves and others find our spark! Notice when we light up, and affirm others when we glimpse their enthusiasm! I bicycle in a way that, perhaps, is akin to how Forest dances. I know what I can do and what I'm not great at. If there is a cycling problem that is within my strength area, I will push myself toward growth and ultimately a success that is easier for me to acknowledge and accept (to 'sit with, stand in' as Dr. Hanson said). I tend not to be as self-critical in these situations. And when faced with a cycling problem where I'm weak, I tend to laugh more easily at my shortcomings.
Speaking of strength areas, brevity is not one of them, gah. Thank you both, very much, I am and have been greatly aided by your work and your insight.🙏
I completely agree with Rick (in his crankiness 😊). As a psychiatrist I get contacted by several organisations a week, offering me a lot of money to do ADHD assessments (which I turn down). Before you want a diagnosis, consider who’s benefitting?
Speaking to syndrome creep, everyone apparently has ADHD now. I had a late diagnosis but it has been suspected all my adult life and heavily debilitated me in my youth. I also had other things that confirmed my diagnosis such as the effect of prescribed medications and self medicated drugs.
I have also come to know that CPTSD exhibits symptoms similar to ADHD or Autism. Like inability to pay attention, sensory sensitivity, emotional reactivity, etc etc.
My theory is that we as a society are largely traumatized and social media has led to mass self-diagnosis, but the common person has trouble discerning what their symptoms are actually caused by.
Lot of people exploring the rise in rates of "mental illness" right now, with many different takes on why it's happening. And you're right, ADHD/CPTSD/ASD can have a fair amount of symptom overlap.
What if being flawed is normal? 😊🌹🙏
Love this channel.
Great conversation. What Forrest says at about 31:00 about fear and the mask, yes. So 'it is what it is' and I've let it go. I'm just myself, with my secrets of inadequacy, so what. I don't have to bash or promote myself to anyone, nor prove I'm valuable. I've earned where I am, & did my best. I just am who I am and mindfulness has REALLY helped me embrace that. So what Rick said about being the one who is least trying to impress - even with smarter, richer, or more educated or more cultured people than me - that's me post-Mindfulness... everyone puts their pants on one leg at a time so to speak. I share that with Rick! Love that. Yes, Forrest - you're A+++ as soon as you are YOU!!! Authenticity puts you in the "highest highest" bucket. And I love the points you raise from your learning journey.
When you defined "imposter syndrome" during the recap, you said high-achieving people are particularly prone to it. Then I started thinking "well I'm not in that category...wait, is making that statement imposter syndrome?" lol. Anyway, this got me thinking: what is the definition of "high achieving"? For example, a young adult earns their Bachelors degree from a university. If their family is full of Masters and PhD holders, their family might be happy for them but see the Bachelor's degree as a small step in a long upcoming process. However, if this young adult was a first-generation college student, like maybe they're the first in their family to finish college or high school, earning that Bachelor's degree would be considered a huge achievement in this family and a fine last step in formal education. Maybe you mentioned this in the episode or maybe it fits with social/cultural variables, but defining "high achieving" can be very subjective too. Complicated stuff.
It's a great question. With "imposter syndrome" the premise is that there's not a performance-based reason for the person to feel the way that they do...but as you're saying what qualifies as "high performance" can differ radically based on context.
Hanna I had the same thought of “I’m not a high achiever, wait is that what a high achieving person say?” 😂
Timestamp: 48:52 I envision the "I'm Spartacus" scene. Appreciated this episode!
I love the summary very helpful for ADHD recall. Thank you.
I wish I had your dad in my life, and that you were my brother!
Wow wow wow this episode spoke so to me. I was able to let go of so much especially the external need to compare myself to others. I have been working on these issues all my life but now feel the internal strength to be the authentic me and drop the mask. Yes Forest being you has improved the range of depth on issues you cover.
Loved the reframe on nihilism!
there is where forresr’s soft tone comes from hahaha. from the dad!! of course!! nice episode!
This really is what I was going through at work this week. Thank you both!!
Dr Scott Peck the author of The Road Less Travelled, also stated in one of his books that cliches contain nuggets of wisdom 😊
I love the idea of branding the gimmick of boring self-help!
Reminds me of before RUclips when I wanted to make a magazine like Architectural Digest but just about my artist friends houses. Anyway. I like doing things that counteract the gaping maw that demands a peak experience and perfection. And I like that you are understanding this too.
Thank you for giving words and structure to what we might do more of! Authenticity! Great episode.
How do you deal with a situation where you made a small mistake or you weren't perfect and it DOES lead to you being ostracized in a way that's even worse than anything you imagined? This happened to me in my last job and it's been such a huge setback for me. I didn't do well in an internal job interview and it was not okay and led to me losing my job, being ghosted by my supervisor/management, and implicitly being denied a reference. This was a very elitist organization and I was their 'local hire' who didn't grow up in the right neighbourhood, go to the right schools, or know the right people. I wasn't privileged enough to have problems (like depression). If I wanted to make it there, I had to be extraordinary. After the failed interview, coworkers told me about all the interviews they failed within the organization and how it was totally okay. Turns out, it was only okay for them.
Not a failed interview from my perspective. They just don’t get you and value surface externals. I’ve been there so I do get it. The work world can be a treacherous place and it’s tough to find “your home.” Find it in your core competencies, moral compass, and the way you treat others. This is what counts. You sound like an amazing person to me. Wishing you well….for myself, I started my own business and work from home!
How helpful this video was for me! Saved.
Baby Steps by Dr Leo Marvin! 😂
I might try saying, the next time someone is speaking meanly to me, "Hey I'm not really feeling like I'm in your heart right now!" And then step back and to the side, just in case . . .
Much love❤
Please do your research on the history of "autism" and "Asperger's Syndrome." Besides the questionable historical associations to Nazism, anyone whose lived experience lines up with the clear clusters of autism: sensory differences, social and emotional challenges, and deep interest in favored topics, will not appreciate being told they're "not really" having that lived experience! There are plenty of neurodivergent-affirming resources to learn from!
Your father made the comment that, Cliches may be a good topic of discussion for an episode..That caught my attention. I think that cliches would be a GREAT topic..Cliches have some truth. However, they are commonly used pretentiously, often used by people who want to appear more evolved than they really are. Cliches are often used as a substitute for actual understanding, spiritual bypassing(another cliche.lol) although, they usually hold some truth..I don't think I've ever seen a discussion devoted to this one exact topic..Very interesting!!
Medicalising enotional distress is big business.
What if you don't have those people who make you feel yourself
I think Rick misses the point that this is often experienced by women in work settings. I definitely experienced impostor syndrome and so did many of my coworkers who are women. Thanks for getting it, Forrest. I do understand the point about overpathologizing things to stake out a corner in self-help or psychology. Syndrome may be too strong of a word here.
5:00 why would you pat someone on the back for getting diagnosed as neuro atypical? That sounds terribly infantilizing and coddling. This isn’t gonna be helpful in the long run cause it will just make an addicting sense of relief rather than getting stronger in truth. I’m more with the “cranky dad” who wasn’t cranky at all but actually balanced.
I want Rick to be my dad 😂
I call it the 'fake it til you make it' syndrome, and it was the worst piece of advice I'd ever been given 30 years ago.
I’m 7minutes in and talking about something isn’t necessarily a display of expertise. But it might sell a few sessions to the uninitiated seeker.
No offense, but I think I kept hearing “imposture” syndrome.