Can you ask Pr. Finley to discuss this issue with Pr bohr and then come up with a unified response..there're so much confusion in this topic but if I'm to make a stand, I think what Pr. Bohr teachers on this topic of 24 elders sounds to be more convincing to me. Kindly refer to his series of who are the 24 elders.
If we go by bible ONLY? Finley is absolutely right! Pastor Bohr's theory is "included EGW's writings" to verify it...sometimes adventist pastors interpret EGW's writing to "match their theory" but it's not. . But if you believe in the bible only? then Mark Finley is the ONLY TRUE explanation of where the 24 elders came from! end of story.
Neither Bro M. Finley nor Bro. S. Bohr are inspired, but Sister EGW is. Isaiah 8:20 is the guiding principle. As well, Revelation 12:17; 19:10@@rastamon08
I wish pastor Mark presented it for a longer period. Six minutes are not enough for this. I watched The 24 elders series from secrets Unsealed and now I really know who they are.
They are representatives of the unfallen world's I to have watched the 24 elders series and believe that this is correct....as the 24 elders were in the sanctuary before Jesus returned after his resurrection there fore it can't be the ones that rose with Christ...Ellen G White also makes this very clear... God bless
EGW says they have representatives from other worlds and am inclined to believe her. good thing u said, according to u. these were the sons of God in Job cuz Revelations says on the occasion that one of the angels. We are not angels, but Lucifer came among them, Lucifer is an angel. if Adam didn't fall, He would attain the status of an angel, we will only attain it in the end to replace the fallen angels
Please give the reference from EGW. I read from the writings of Stephen Haskell and Uriah Smith that the 24 elders are redeemed from earth. The elders even said that themselves, that the Lamb had redeemed them to God hy His blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Rev5:9)
This is what I believe too. I believe also that in the scene of Revelation chapter 4, there is no mention of Jesus Christ yet. If Jesus were not there at this precise moment, how can the people who were resurrected be there? I might be wrong, I'm open to clarification. I'm looking for the TRUTH. I'm not here to criticize. May The Lord lead and bless everyone.
@@widgeberniefleurinord2117 I am confused. Since when has Jesus not been there. He created all things. In Genesis, it is Jesus creating all things. Colosians 1:16,17 for by Him were all things created, and that are in earth, visible and invisible......etc. The entire Bible is teaching us the plan of salvation, how the father through the son is saving the fallen human race. From Genesis through Revelation, all we see is Jesus. In addition, Revelation 1:1 states, the revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him unto him to show unto his servants.
read Revelation 5, verses 8 and 9. It literally says the elders are those redeemed by the blood of christ from all kindred, tongs, people, and nations. That's the Church.
Very interesting, I thought I Chronicles 24:7-18 provided a "clue" as to the identity of the Twenty Four Elders, that are described in Revelation. I know that there is humans in Heaven as of right now, including Moses, Elijah and Enoch. Of course, the Lord Jesus Christ is also in Heaven, as He's fully human and God. God bless.
Actually I believe as you do, it is cleverly hidden in 1 chronicles 24:4 ; you have to study it as you have to see the 16 and 8, and that they make up the divisions of priest. Blessings
To my good brother who manages this platform and to pastor Mark Finley thanks for the work .BUT I WANT TO FIND OUT IF YOU ARE DONE WITH WATCHING THE SERIES THE 24 ELDERS BY PASTOR BHOR BY MANY BE VIEWERS ON THIS PLATFORM BECAUSE THE VIEWS IN THIS PRESENTATION ARE NOT IN HARMONY WITH THE WRITINGS OF ELLEN WHITE. KINDLY FINISH WATCHING THE SERIES BY PASTOR BHOR BECAUSE THEY ARE CONSISTENT WITH SOP. THANK YOU AND CONTINUE DOING THIS GREAT WORK
While I have great respect for Elder Finley I am not in agreement with the explanation he offers. I believe the 24 elders are the representatives of other worlds. There are several reasons that negate the 24 elders are the resurrected saints. One reason is that when Jesus and these people ascended to heaven the 24 elders were already there. But we should not make this a big issue in the church.
Yah even Pastor Doug Batchelor also mentioned that indeed the 24 elders are representative from other worlds that never sinned. Lets asked Jesus personally when we see Him in heaven to get the exact answer. 🙏😇
Thank you Pr. Mark Finley for that brief talk. But i would respeftful and humbly disagree on following points. 1. Christ is the Creator Redeemer.and Saviour. For HIM saving is beyond our world (for He says our world is but a tiny drop in the bucket, Isaiah 40:15), It is to save us from sin but also 'decontaminate' (wipe clean the effects of sin in other worlds, not ever to be repeated). So, the concept of saving is of God's created beings and here is why; It is through the efficacy of the cross that the angels of heaven are guarded from apostasy. Without the cross they would be no more secure against evil than were the angels before the fall of Satan. Angelic perfection failed in heaven. Human perfection failed in Eden, the paradise of bliss. All who wish for security in earth or heaven must look to the Lamb of God. The plan of salvation, making manifest the justice and love of God, provides an eternal safeguard against defection in unfallen worlds, as well as among those who shall be redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. Our only hope is perfect trust in the blood of Him who can save to the uttermost all that come unto God by Him. The death of Christ on the cross of Calvary is our only hope in this world, and it will be our theme in the world to come.Oh, we do not comprehend the value of the atonement! If we did, we would talk more about it. The gift of God in his beloved Son was the expression of an incomprehensible love. It was the utmost that God could do to preserve the honor of his law, and still save the transgressor. Why should man not study the theme of redemption? It is the greatest subject that can engage the human mind. If men would contemplate the love of Christ, displayed in the cross, their faith would be strengthened to appropriate the merits of his shed blood, and they would be cleansed and saved from sin.* There are many who will be lost, because they depend on legal religion, or mere repentance for sin. But repentance for sin alone cannot work the salvation of any soul. Man cannot be saved by his own works. Without Christ it is impossible for him to render perfect obedience to the law of God; and heaven can never be gained by an imperfect obedience; for this would place all heaven in jeopardy, and make possible a second rebellion. ST December 30, 1889, par. 4 2. Inheritence-- we'll receive dominion/rulership altogether. The crowns--Means excellence, power, authority, dominion. The 24 elders again cannot be "human beings", for in Hebews 11 we are told all these faithful men are yet asleep to receive inheritence with us all (you and i are to be in that list, isn't that encouraging?) - It is true that, there were MANY who resurrected after[with] Jesus rose from the tomb, but the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy is silent about their exact number. We do commonly but wrongly speculate and assume that they were 24, without Scriptural evidence. The idea that the 24elders are humans tells gives wrong notion that "some have received the dominion already, which is catastrophically wrong as per Hebrews 11, dominion is to be received altogether) 3. 24elders were in Heaven before the scene in Revelation 4 and 5. The scenes described in Revelations 4 and 5 was that of coronation of Christ the Majesty. If humans (ressurected with Jesus are 24elders then they preceded Christ ascension! This again would be twrribly wromg for Christ Himself wanted to be sure that the Father has accepted His sacrifice and thus he ascended first and came back before going to Galilee. This explained well from these quotes among many from Spirit of Prophecy; All heaven was waiting to welcome the Saviour to the celestial courts. As He ascended, He led the way, and the multitude of captives set free at His resurrection followed. The heavenly host, with shouts and acclamations of praise and celestial song, attended the joyous train. DA 833.2 As they drew near to the city of God, the challenge is given by the escorting angels,- DA 833.3 “Lift up your heads, O ye gates; And be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; And the King of glory shall come in.” DA 833.4 Joyfully the waiting sentinels respond,- DA 833.5 “Who is this King of glory?” DA 833.6 This they say, not because they know not who He is, but because they would hear the answer of exalted praise,- DA 833.7 “The Lord strong and mighty, The Lord mighty in battle! Lift up your heads, O ye gates; Even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; And the King of glory shall come in.” DA 833.8 Again is heard the challenge, “Who is this King of glory?” for the angels never weary of hearing His name exalted. The escorting angels make reply,- DA 833.9 “The Lord of hosts; He is the King of glory.” Psalm 24:7-10. DA 833.10 Then the portals of the city of God are opened wide, and the angelic throng sweep through the gates amid a burst of rapturous music. DA 833.11 There is [1] the throne, and around it the rainbow of promise. There are [2] **cherubim* and seraphim.[3]The commanders of the angel hosts, the sons of God, the representatives of the unfallen worlds, are assembled. The heavenly council before which Lucifer had accused God and His Son, the representatives of those sinless realms over which Satan had thought to establish his dominion,-all are there to welcome the Redeemer. They are eager to celebrate His triumph and to glorify their King. DA 834.1 But He waves them back. Not yet; He cannot now receive the coronet of glory and the royal robe. He enters into the presence of His Father. [1]He points to His wounded head, the pierced side, the marred feet; He lifts His hands, bearing the print of nails. [2.]He points to the tokens of His triumph; He presents to God the wave sheaf, those raised with Him as representatives of that great multitude who shall come forth from the grave at His second coming. He approaches the Father, with whom there is joy over one sinner that repents; who rejoices over one with singing. Before the foundations of the earth were laid, the Father and the Son had united in a covenant to redeem man if he should be overcome by Satan. They had clasped Their hands in a solemn pledge that Christ should become the surety for the human race. This pledge Christ has fulfilled. When upon the cross He cried out, “It is finished,” He addressed the Father. The compact had been fully carried out. Now He declares: Father, it is finished. I have done Thy will, O My God. I have completed the work of redemption. If Thy justice is satisfied, “I will that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am.” John 19:30; 17:24. DA 834.2 The voice of God is heard proclaiming that justice is satisfied. Satan is vanquished. Christ's toiling, struggling ones on earth are “accepted in the Beloved.” Ephesians 1:6. Before the heavenly angels and the representatives of unfallen worlds, they are declared justified. Where He is, there His church shall be. “Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.” Psalm 85:10. The Father's arms encircle His Son, and the word is given, “Let all the angels of God worship Him.” Hebrews 1:6. DA 834.3 With joy unutterable, rulers and principalities and powers acknowledge the supremacy of the Prince of life. The angel host prostrate themselves before Him, while the glad shout fills all the courts of heaven, “Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing.” Revelation 5:12. DA 834.4
Jesus said it, in my father's house there are many massions there, of course there many would my earth like planets, I have by his grace in the spirit visited some of them, glory to God ❤
Praise the Lord this isn't a salvific issue; but I am inclined to believe that the 24 elders are representatives of unfallen worlds. Had Adam not lost dominion to Satan due to sin, he should/would have been at that meeting described in Job. Bohr's exposition is full of Scripture and SoP to further back this point.
Perhaps, yet we must notice from Revelation 5:8-10, the words of these same elders: "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast ; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth". It appears that these elders identify themselves as sinners from earth who have been redeemed. Sin exists only on this world as we read in Revelation 12: 10-12. Those from unfallen worlds need no redemption.
I'm assuming pre trib is not an option, otherwise the elders can very well be entirety of the church at the time of the coming of the Lord, some time before the 1st Seal is broken.
in Psalms 77:13 we find useful divine counsel. The sanctuary on earth was a copy of the one in heaven. Understand this and it will be easy to figure out who the 24 elders are.
1 TIMOTHY 6:13-16 , " 13.I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. WHAT DOES THIS MEANS ? " WHO ONLY HATH IMMORTALITY " SHALOM !
You know it’s not a far fetched possibility. I’d like to believe some of the biblical greats were present in that first resurrection as well as people the Bible is silent on.
Elijah and Enoch were taken into Heaven alive, without ever seeing death. And Moses died and was resurrected, following a dispute over his body in the Book of Jude. So they couldn't be the 24 Elders. Never the less, there are humans in Heaven right now, including the Lord, Jesus Christ, who's fully human and God. God bless.
@@messengerisrael3817 the one alone having immortality is Jesus Christ for in these verses apostle Paul compares him to earthly worldly rulers who do not have immortality because they can and do die.
The prophet is saying that those elders are strong angels, the highest angels. Rev.5:9,10 is not referring to the elders from v.8. It is already referring to the saints which are first mentioned in v.8 at the end. And perhaps that phrase in v.9 "sing a new song" pointing already to the 144k from Rev.14:3 The God of all truth bless us with knowledge.
THESE ARE THE 24 ELDERS : 1 CHRONICLES 24 , THE 24 SONS OF AARON THROUGH ELEAZAR AND ITHAMAR .Eleazar . THESE WILL BE IN THE FIRST RESURRECTION ( REVELATION 7:1-8 ) ; WHICH ARE THE 144,000 ; WHO ARE THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL ; THE ONLY NATION UNDER THE FATHER'S LAW . REVELATION 14:1-5 , " 1.And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the FIRSTFRUITS UNTO GOD AND TO THE LAMB . 5And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. THE FIRSTFRUITS FROM THE DEAD . JESUS WILL REIGN 1000 YEARS IN HIS KINGDOM AT MOUNT ZION ON THIS EARTH . ISAIAH 2:1-3 , " 1.The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. ROMANS 8:22-23 , " 22.For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. THE WHOLE CREATION WOULD BE REVELATION 7:9-17 ; WHICH ARE IN THE FATHER'S KINGDOM , IN NEW JERUSALEM , ON THE NEW EARTH ; WHICH ARE PEOPLE FROM ALL NATIONS . BUT OURSELVES ALSO , WHICH HAVE THE FIRSTFRUITS , WOULD BE REVELATION 7:1-8 ; WHICH ARE THE ISRAELITES IN JESUS CHRIST KINGDOM ; THE SAINTS ; THE ELECTION THAT PAUL TALKS ABOUT IN ROMANS 11:5-7 . ROMANS 11:5-7 , " 5.Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6.And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7.What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. REVELATION 20:4 , " 4.And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. SHALOM !
@@justmyopinion7 REVELATION 21:9-12 , " 9.And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: THE CHURCH IS THE COVENANT BETWEEN THE FATHER AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL ; WITH JESUS CHRIST BEING THE MEDIATOR OF THE COVENANT , THE HEAD IF THE CHURCH , AND THE KING OF ISRAEL . BELIEVING GENTILES ARE GRAFTED INTO THE CHURCH THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST ; NOT UNDER THE LAW OF THE FATHER , BUT UNDER THE LAW TO CHRIST . WHEN JESUS CHRIST RETURNS TO THIS EARTH TO GATHER HIS BRIDE , AND SETUP HIS KINGDOM IN REVELATION 19:11-21 ; THIS HAPPENS JUST AFTER THE GREAT WHORE , OR THE SEVENTH KING IS DESTROYED BY THE TEN KINGS IN REVELATIONS 17 & 18 . IT IS THE TEN KINGS , OR THE TOES ON THE FEET OF THE STATUE IN DANIEL 2 , THAT THE STONE NOT MADE WITH HANDS SMOTE . REVELATION 17:1,12-17 , " 1.And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the GREAT WHORE that sitteth upon many waters: 12.And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 15And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the WHORE sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. NOTE : THE MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB AND HIS BRIDE THE CHURCH , HAPPENS AS CHRIST RETURNS TO THIS EARTH TO SETUP HIS KINGDOM FOR 1000 YEARS . REVELATION 19:1-9 , " 1.And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged THE GREAT WHORE , which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. 3And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. 4And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. 5And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. 6And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thundering's, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. 7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. REVELATION 19:11-21 , TALKS ABOUT CHRIST RETURNING WITH HIS BRIDE TO FIGHT THE WICKED . NOTE: THE ONES IN REVELATION 19:8 , ARE THE SAME ONES IN REVELATION 19:14 . PLEASE SHOW ME THE CHURCH RAPTURED BEFORE THE TRIBULATION ? THE CHURCH IS THE COVENANT BETWEEN THE FATHER AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL ; WITH THE GREAT TRIBULATION OF ISRAEL FROM 73 A.D. , UNTIL THE RETURN OF CHRIST . THIS IS THE BRIDE OF THE LAMB , WHICH WILL REIGN AND JUDGE WITH JESUS CHRIST FOR 1000 YEARS ; THE ONES IN THE FIRST RESURRECTION . REVELATION 7:1-4 , " 1.And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. JESUS CHRIST RETURNS AT THE OPENING OF THE SIXTH SEAL ; GATHER THE ELECT/SAINTS/144,000 ISRAELITES ; PREDESTINATED TO REST WITH HIM ON THE SEVENTH DAY . ROMANS 11:7 , " 7.What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded MATTHEW 24:31 , " 31.And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. IN REVELATION 7:9-17 , THIS IS IN THE FATHER'S KINGDOM , ON THE NEW EARTH , IN NEW JERUSALEM ; AT THE END OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION OF MAN AFTER ADAM FALL TO SATAN . ROMANS 8:22-23 , " 22.For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. ROMANS 8:22 , IS IN THE FATHER'S KINGDOM ON THE EIGHTH DAY . ROMANS 8:23 , IS IN JESUS CHRIST KINGDOM ON THE SEVENTH DAY . REVELATION 14:1-5 , " 1.And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being THE FIRSTFRUITS UNTO GOD AND TO THE LAMB . 5And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. THE 144,000 ARE THE FIRSTFRUITS UNTO GOD AND THE LAMB . IN REVELATION 21:9-12 , THIS WILL INCLUDE ALL ISRAEL THAT ARE SAVED , NOT JUST THE 144,000 IN CHRIST KINGDOM . IN GENESIS 10 , ALL THE NATIONS WERE GIVEN THEIR INHERITANCE ; THE LANDS WHERE THEY WILL DWELL FOREVER . ISRAEL WAS GIVEN THE LAND OF CANAAN AS A EVERLASTING INHERITANCE ; BUT ISRAEL IS ALSO THE LOT OF GOD INHERITANCE ; WHO WILL DWELL WITH THEM FOREVER . DEUTERONOMY 32:7-9 , 7.Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee. 8When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. 9For the LORD'S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance. ALL NATIONS SAVED WILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO ENTER INTO NEW JERUSALEM AT ANYTIME SHALOM !
@@messengerisrael3817 When we look at Rev 5:8-10 we see that there are the 24 elders that are from every tongue, nation, kindred and people. They have harps and vials in their hands and are sitting on thrones around God and are singing to Jesus "You are worthy to take the book and open the seals thereof" They also say that they are redeemed from the earth onto God by the Blood of the lamb and are made kings and priests onto God. In scripture there are only 3 people/entities that are priests and kings.... 1. Melchizedek 2. Jesus Christ 3. The church And.... they are witnessing Jesus receiving the scroll to open the first seal. For me, that's pre-trib. Shalom!
I agree that the 24 elders are from earth...I've heard a popular SDA pastor saying the 24 elders are Angels......Well, Jesus did not come to earth to die for Angels....
thats kinda unfair brother to brush off that some other pastor you are talking about, our salvation has arrested the attention of the whole universe, including the unfallen worlds, so to say it shallowly like that is not wise. light is progressive, lets pray that we may understand for ourselves
Well if you look at Rev 7:11 it is IMPOSSIBLE that they can be angels. SDA has false teachings and EGW is a false prophet, so I would be very careful of her teachings. The 24 elders are the church raptured before the tribulation.
Pastor Mark please thanks for everything but please it's high time we stop adhering to the traditional view of the 24 elders as those who resurrected and ascended to heaven with Christ.... Both the Bible and the SoP clearly gives an indication that the 24 elders are Strong Angelic Order... Pastor Stephen Bohr has a clear exposition on who the 24 Elders are... The traditional view has proven yet can't stand the description the bible gives to the 24 elders... they are clearly the highest of Angels in the angelic order not redeemed men... Thanks
I disagree, simply because no angels, strong or not, have been redeemed by Jesus for anything! They haven’t gone through ANY of the trials or struggles of sin, much less tribulations! I’ve seen Pastor Bohr’s presentation, but I disagree with his assessment that ‘the sons of God’ were also Strong Angels! I think that we will know for certain, when WE get to Heaven. Until then, we don’t need to squabble about it. 😇
@@caroleceres it seems you haven't taken any proper study on this subject and you should do... To say the sons of GOD in Job are not angels is to clear show that you haven't really studied this subject well... Read Job 38:7 and you will know Angel's are also referred to as sons of GOD... And again no where in the book of revelation does it suggest that the 24 elders were redeemed...its only the liv that renders it as such... Come to think of it...the 24 elders were already in heaven in Revelations 4 before christ arrived in chapter 5.... The 24 elders cant be the redeemed from earth...they aren't any human order...
The truth is we do not know for certain. Any theory or explanation would be speculation. Does this affect my walk with Jesus and ultimately my salvation? No.
Yes we do know for certain who the 24 elders are. Ellen White explains perfectly with out question, she is clear. The 24 elders, the sons of God, are rulers of the unfallen worlds. Here is a direct copy and paste from Ellen White The Spirit of Prophecy In The Advent Movement Chaper 6 sub-title The Return of Jesus After The Reserrection. xlvi The Spirit of Prophecy in the Advent Movement - “Then the portals of the city of God are opened wide, and the angelic throng sweep through the gates amid a burst of rapturous music. “There is the throne, and around it the rainbow of promise. There are cherubim and seraphim. The commanders of the angel hosts, the sons of God, the representatives of the unfallen worlds, are assembled. The heavenly council before which Lucifer had accused God and His Son, the representatives of those sinless realms over which Satan had thought to establish his dominion,-all are there to welcome the Redeemer.
Revelation 5:5 And saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. EGW comment: John was distressed at the utter inability of any human being or angelic intelligence to read the words, or even to look thereon. His soul was wrought up to such a point of agony and suspense that had compassion on him, and laying his hand on him assuringly, said, "Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof" [verse 5]. {12MR 296.4} A similar expression "strong angel" is seen in Revelation 5:2. To me this is very interesting in light of the fact that the conflict is Cosmic and involves all the universal administration. We see this in the book of Job as well. Satan's accusations were carried before this great council of super strong and intelligent rulers in the case of Job. Similarly at the end they would be involved in the final movements in the Great Controversy. That series on the 24 elders by Elder Bohr brought this to my attention.
@@broclay1073 The Bible clearly teaches that the 24 elders are people from every tribe, nation, kindred and tongue REDEEMED by the blood of the lamb onto God, and made KINGS AND PRIESTS onto God to rule with Him. There are only 3 entities/people in the Bible that are kings and priests... 1. Melchizedek 2. Jesus Christ 3. The church (true believers). Since it is definitely not the first 2, it is definitely the church. They are there from the rapture if you reference Rev 3:10 and to prove it is pre-trib.... they are witnessing Jesus receiving the scroll and opening the FIRST seal! Stop interpreting scripture your own way.... let scripture interpret scripture.
@justmyopinion7 Going from below up. Keeping one from the hour of temptation does not equal a pretribulation rapture, Jesus prayed John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. God's people will go through that hour and victoriously come out unscaved. There are many examples of that Biblically and Rev 7:14 rubbishes any pre-tribulation enterprise. Now there are beings in the Bible, the four beasts which sing the same song the 24 elders sing Rev 5:8-14 are we to conclude then that these entities are also from the 12 tribes redeemed in the pretribulation rapture? The song they sing may have something in it to reconsider. Maybe the word us and them/men are closer than you think.
“And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.” Rev 5:9,10 They were redeemed by the blood of Christ out of EVERY kindred, language people and nation…in other words…they are predominantly GENTILE believers…which means, they definitely are not the 12 patriarchs and the 12 apostles (who are all Jewish).
Pastor, I noticed u shared your opinion. Even your words express uncertainty who the 24 Elders are. E G W tells us who they are in her writings. Why don't you check it out and tell us what it says instead of your opinion.
In Job 1:6 and Job 2:1, There's mention of Son's of God presenting themselves before the Lord. Job one of the oldest books in the Bible has mentioned these Sons before the Resurrection. So who are they then? There not angels or leaders of tribes.
In the finite and limited knowledge we have we cannot fully understand all of the mysteries. But the Bible tells us that there are other worlds. Hebrews 1:1,2 says, "1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed her of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" This verse tells us that God made the worlds.
@@HL365 In many translations it means universe or just world. So I come to believe that the “worlds” meaning is the world that is up in heaven, the world that we are in, and there’re hidden worlds that we cannot see physically where the welfare of good and evil occurs and also where the dead are could also be called another world. I think we are the only Earth and the only humans God has created. With that being said in the beginning of Hebrews chapter one, God speaks about our ancestors from the Old Testament. Next it mentions how we are in the final days when we’ve received the words of Jesus. “And now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he created the universe.” This is where I think you’ve got it confused with all due respect, its just mentions Jesus being the source of all creation or (worlds). Whats your opinion in this? - Samuel
They are representatives of the unfallen world's I to have watched the 24 elders series and believe that this is correct....as the 24 elders were in the sanctuary before Jesus returned after his resurrection there fore it can't be the ones that rose with Christ...Ellen G White also makes this very clear... God bless
EGW is a false prophet and her father is satan. If the 24 elders is from an unfallen world then why are they REDEEMED by the BLOOD of Jesus? They are the church raptured before the tribulation.
24 elders not in Scripture until mat .27.52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Lev23.10Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 11And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. The High Priest was resurrected Saturday just before sundown on the third day first begotten of the dead. Firstfruits resurrected after dark. First day of the week by the High Priest Hallelujah!
@HL365 HAPPY HANUKKAH/HAVE YOU BEEN ASSIMILATED ? Wisemen enter a house , see a young child not a babe. Mat.2.9¶When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was. 10When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. 11And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. Mary and Joseph offer a poor man's sacrifice, no gold. Leviticus 12.1-8 Luke 2.22¶And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; 23(As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;) 24And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons. During His ministry He does Hanukkah. Jhn.10.22¶And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. Also known as the Festival of Lights. Jhn.8.12¶Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. Colossians 2.16¶Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Lev.23.39¶Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath. Jhn1.14¶And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Dwelt G4637 skee-nah-oh tent/Tabernacles Hebrew suka/ tent, Sukote/ Tabernacles Takes place on God's calendar on the 15th day of the 7th month (late Sept. early Oct.) Rev.21.3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. Yeshua/Jesus goes to the Temple in Jerusalem for Hanukkah/Feast of Dedication, is about the story of the Macabees's assimilation into Helenization, their fight against it. Same reason some people claim pagan child sacrifice rituals as God's Holy Days. Can you belive the nerve of some people ? Mat.2.11And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. G3813 - paidion, young child Outline of Biblical Usage: a young child, a little boy, a little girl infants children, little ones an infant of a (male) child just recently born of a more advanced child; of a mature child; metaph. children (like children) in intellect KJV Translation Count: 51x The KJV translates Strongs G3813 in the following manner: child (25x), little child (12x), young child (10x), damsel (4x). KJV translates G3818 zero times as infant Luke 2.16And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger. G1025 - brephos, babe Outline of Biblical Usage: an unborn child, embryo, a foetus a new-born child, an infant, a babe KJV Translation Count: 8x The KJV translates Strongs G1025 in the following manner: babe (5x), child (1x), infant (1x), young child (1x). X-mass is no doubt a STRONG DELUSION
@HL365 In the chronology of events, which comes ? (1) Mat.28.1 ¶In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. 2And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. (2) Jhn.20.1 ¶The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. 2Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him. Let's zoom in (1) Mat.28.1...as it began to dawn... (2) Jhn.20.1...when it was yet dark... I'am confident that a 10y.o knows that "when it was yet dark ", comes before "as it began to dawn." Jhn.20.1-2 Paraphrased. Mary Magdalene arrives at the tomb when it is dark, and the tomb is empty, she hasn't seen any angels or a resurrected Measiah. Iam positive that you need a body in the tomb at sunrise to have a Easter Sunday Sunrise Resurrection. Mat.12.40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Mat.16.21¶From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Three days, three nights, raised on the third day. Very specific, only works one way. Jhn.12.1¶Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead. 2There they made him a supper; Exo.12.1¶And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying, 2This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you. 3Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house: 6And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. When it is dark, begins the 15th, Passover. The first meal of the Feast of Unleavened Bread is the Passover meal (sedar) The 10th-14th are "preparation days" The 10th-15th is six days. Let's subtract six days from the 15th day of the month. Brings us to the 9th day of the month. He travels from Bethpage to Bethany (other three Gospels) and they prepare for him a supper. He travels, they prepare supper. This is not a Sabbath day, this is Friday the 9th, that evening begins the weekly Sabbath the 10th, they have a Sabbath night supper. Because Saturday is the Sabbath, the 10th, he rides into town on Sunday the 11th. Wednesday is the 14th, the day Israel sacrificed the Passover Lamb of God, Saturday is the 17th, He comes out of the tomb just before sundown on the weekly Sabbath, the third day. Mat.27.52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53And came out of the graves AFTER HIS RESURRECTION, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. (Aka 24 elders) These are the (G536first fruits) can be the offering or the one presenting the offering. The reader has to decide. Lev.23.9¶And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 10Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 11And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. In this scenario Messiah is the High Priest. Messiah was resurrected just before sundown on the weekly Sabbath the 17th, the First Born from the dead. The first fruits were resurrected by the Messiah after sundown "the morrow after the sabbath", Sunday the 18th. Do you know what I can not find in Scripture anywhere ? The first Sunday after the first fullmoon after the spring equinox Second Witness Luke.24.21 b 21But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and (b) beside all this, to day is the third day SINCE these things were done. G575 SINCE, transliterated apo, to separate, especially in composition. Literally separate the first day of the week from the day of crucifixion with three days , makes Sunday the fourth day and Wednesday the day of crucifixion Good Works Eph.2.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. What are these "good works" that God had before ordained, that we should walk in them? Let's do a quick word study on the word "WALK" Exodus 18:20 KJV - And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must WALK, and the work that they must do. Leviticus 18:3 KJV - After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye WALK in their ordinances. Leviticus 18:4 KJV - Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to WALK therein: I am the LORD your God. Deuteronomy 5:33 KJV - Ye shall WALK in all the ways which the LORD your God hath commanded you, that ye may live, and that it may be well with you, and that ye may prolong your days in the land which ye shall possess. Deuteronomy 8:6 KJV - Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to WALK in his ways, and to fear him. Leviticus 20:23 KJV - And ye shall not WALK in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. Deuteronomy 13:4 KJV - Ye shall WALK after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. Deuteronomy 19:9 KJV - If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to WALK ever in his ways; then shalt thou add three cities more for thee, beside these three: Deuteronomy 10:12 KJV - And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to WALK in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, Deuteronomy 26:17 KJV - Thou hast avouched the LORD this day to be thy God, and to WALK in his ways, and to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and to hearken unto his voice: Deuteronomy 29:19 KJV - And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I WALK in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst: Deuteronomy 28:9 KJV - The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and WALK in his ways. Deuteronomy 30.16In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to WALK in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. This is only a partial list. Again, I believe a 10y.o could pick up on this . Do you know what's going on ? A Strong Delusion, brought on by the teaching of the traditions of men, as if they were the Word of God, and prefering the lie to the Truth. The Lie, the Council of Nicaea. The Truth, the Counsel of God, Gen-Rev. Anti-christ is also anti-Commandments of God, anti Feasts of the LORD. The same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, He who was, who is, and who is to come. Walk in His ways , you will be blessed when you come in, blessed when you go out.
Indeed the twenty four elders are those who were resurrected with Christ early on the resurrection morning but it is more specific than that. Remember, these individuals have not had their cases reviewed in the Judgment yet. “As Christ arose, He brought from the grave a multitude of captives. The earthquake at His death had rent open their graves, and when He arose, they came forth with Him. They were those who had been co-laborers with God, and who at the cost of their lives had borne testimony to the truth. Now they were to be witnesses for Him who had raised them from the dead.” DA 786.1 Those brought forth at Christ’s resurrection were martyrs. There’s a specific reason. “those who were martyred for their faith were secured to Christ and accounted of Him as conquerors.” GC 42.1 The Judgment assures the unfallen worlds that the redeemed are safe to save and the selection of these victorious martyrs guarantees that they will not reinfect the universe with sin.
It is impossible that the 24 elders were those resurrected with Christ. Revelation 4 has them in heaven BEFORE Christ ascended and the Bible in Rev.4 and SOP in Desire of Ages last few pages have them following Jesus when He enters heaven.
@@Brown1844 Seems a bit of contradiction for the twenty four elders to both be in heaven before Christ’s ascension and to follow him there. I think you have made some assumptions that require explanation and scriptural support. Please illuminate.
Your explanation is flawed, Pastor Mark . These resurrected individuals follow Jesus when He ascended, not before! They were not in heaven before Christ as were the 24 elders! Ellen White tells us who they are in the final chapter and last few pages of DA. Pastor Stephen Bohr got it right get his study on RUclips!!
@@HL365 you're welcome, yet, such is scripture, and not my opinion👊💜 MattithYahu 13:11 Gift of YaHU'aH “He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them, {Gentiles}, it is not given.”
Interesting but completely SPECULATION and NON-SCRIPTURAL! This is what happens when you interpret the Word the way you want to. The Bible clearly teaches that the 24 elders are people from every tribe, nation, kindred and tongue REDEEMED by the blood of the lamb onto God, and made KINGS AND PRIESTS onto God to rule with Him. There are only 3 entities/people in the Bible that are kings and priests... 1. Melchizedek 2. Jesus Christ 3. The church (true believers). Since it is definitely not the first 2, it is definitely the church. They are there from the rapture if you reference Rev 3:10 and to prove it is pre-trib.... they are witnessing Jesus receiving the scroll and opening the FIRST seal! Stop interpreting scripture your own way.... let scripture interpret scripture.
The 24 elders are the 12 Fathers from Israel,and the 12 Disciples as a foundation! There are not the Humans resurrected when Jesus was risen ,the there were uncountable!
You do not"Know"if Jesus Christ is the Son of God or not. It's impossible to "know"God is real or not as well. Islam Branches off a lie. Atheist all have Pride and believe a lie. There's no way to kno
@DynastyofPenguins YES , THERE IS A WAY TO KNOW ; TIME WILL REVEAL THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION . IF THERE IS NO GOD , AND ALL ENDS AFTER YOU DIE , THEN IT DOES NOT MATTER . IF THERE IS A GOD , AND YOU ARE NOT DOING WHAT HE COMMANDS YOU , THEN THAT IS BAD FOR YOU . I REFER TO BELIEVE ; THE OTHER WAY DOES NOT MATTER ; ONLY BELIEVING HAST A POSSIBLE FUTURE ; GOOD OR BAD . SHALOM !
Can you ask Pr. Finley to discuss this issue with Pr bohr and then come up with a unified response..there're so much confusion in this topic but if I'm to make a stand, I think what Pr. Bohr teachers on this topic of 24 elders sounds to be more convincing to me.
Kindly refer to his series of who are the 24 elders.
Thanks for your comment.
Yes, I agree with you. Have also recently listened to Ps Bohr's 24 Elders series and also agree with him.
Please what is pr bohr RUclips channel
If we go by bible ONLY? Finley is absolutely right! Pastor Bohr's theory is "included EGW's writings" to verify it...sometimes adventist pastors interpret EGW's writing to "match their theory" but it's not. . But if you believe in the bible only? then Mark Finley is the ONLY TRUE explanation of where the 24 elders came from! end of story.
Neither Bro M. Finley nor Bro. S. Bohr are inspired, but Sister EGW is. Isaiah 8:20 is the guiding principle. As well, Revelation 12:17; 19:10@@rastamon08
I wish pastor Mark presented it for a longer period. Six minutes are not enough for this.
I watched The 24 elders series from secrets Unsealed and now I really know who they are.
Please watch this: ruclips.net/video/n0e3HTlIXt4/видео.html
They are representatives of the unfallen world's I to have watched the 24 elders series and believe that this is correct....as the 24 elders were in the sanctuary before Jesus returned after his resurrection there fore it can't be the ones that rose with Christ...Ellen G White also makes this very clear... God bless
@@aussiwog They sing a song of redemption... why do they need redemption from an unfallen world??
You are being deceived and lied to!
I choose king Jesus
Thanks for sharing Pastor... God bless you and the ministry ✝️
Thanks for watching. May God bless you.
I am so glad about this segment!
Sound doctrine
To answer questions that we all have.
Praise the Lord!!!!
Respects pastor Mark ....but I go by pastor Stephen Borh's explanation 🙏
Thank you for sharing your thought.
EGW says they have representatives from other worlds and am inclined to believe her. good thing u said, according to u. these were the sons of God in Job cuz Revelations says on the occasion that one of the angels. We are not angels, but Lucifer came among them, Lucifer is an angel. if Adam didn't fall, He would attain the status of an angel, we will only attain it in the end to replace the fallen angels
Where does she explicitly say that the 24 elders are representatives from other worlds?
DA 834.1
Please give the reference from EGW. I read from the writings of Stephen Haskell and Uriah Smith that the 24 elders are redeemed from earth. The elders even said that themselves, that the Lamb had redeemed them to God hy His blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Rev5:9)
This is what I believe too.
I believe also that in the scene of Revelation chapter 4, there is no mention of Jesus Christ yet. If Jesus were not there at this precise moment, how can the people who were resurrected be there? I might be wrong, I'm open to clarification. I'm looking for the TRUTH. I'm not here to criticize.
May The Lord lead and bless everyone.
@@widgeberniefleurinord2117 I am confused. Since when has Jesus not been there. He created all things. In Genesis, it is Jesus creating all things. Colosians 1:16,17 for by Him were all things created, and that are in earth, visible and invisible......etc. The entire Bible is teaching us the plan of salvation, how the father through the son is saving the fallen human race. From Genesis through Revelation, all we see is Jesus. In addition, Revelation 1:1 states, the revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him unto him to show unto his servants.
Amen, LORD!!!❤❤❤
Thanks for watching. May God bless you.
Thanks so much pastor
Thanks for watching. May God bless you.
Amen praised God
Thanks for watching. May God bless you.
read Revelation 5, verses 8 and 9. It literally says the elders are those redeemed by the blood of christ from all kindred, tongs, people, and nations. That's the Church.
You got it right!
Yes that's right! And that's the proof that there is a pre-trib rapture as they are in heaven when Jesus receives the scroll to open the first seal!
Very interesting, I thought I Chronicles 24:7-18 provided a "clue" as to the identity of the Twenty Four Elders, that are described in Revelation. I know that there is humans in Heaven as of right now, including Moses, Elijah and Enoch. Of course, the Lord Jesus Christ is also in Heaven, as He's fully human and God. God bless.
Actually I believe as you do, it is cleverly hidden in 1 chronicles 24:4 ; you have to study it as you have to see the 16 and 8, and that they make up the divisions of priest. Blessings
To my good brother who manages this platform and to pastor Mark Finley thanks for the work .BUT I WANT TO FIND OUT IF YOU ARE DONE WITH WATCHING THE SERIES THE 24 ELDERS BY PASTOR BHOR BY MANY BE VIEWERS ON THIS PLATFORM BECAUSE THE VIEWS IN THIS PRESENTATION ARE NOT IN HARMONY WITH THE WRITINGS OF ELLEN WHITE. KINDLY FINISH WATCHING THE SERIES BY PASTOR BHOR BECAUSE THEY ARE CONSISTENT WITH SOP. THANK YOU AND CONTINUE DOING THIS GREAT WORK
While I have great respect for Elder Finley I am not in agreement with the explanation he offers. I believe the 24 elders are the representatives of other worlds. There are several reasons that negate the 24 elders are the resurrected saints. One reason is that when Jesus and these people ascended to heaven the 24 elders were already there. But we should not make this a big issue in the church.
I agree with you. Pastor Bohr's explanation makes sense that the 24 elders are representatives of other worlds!
Thanks for your kind comment.
Yah even Pastor Doug Batchelor also mentioned that indeed the 24 elders are representative from other worlds that never sinned. Lets asked Jesus personally when we see Him in heaven to get the exact answer. 🙏😇
You're very much right there. Unfortunately,the church uses his explaination on the 24 elders. 😢
I agree, the Bible seems to show that they are representatives of other worlds.
Amen praise the Lord
Thanks for watching. May God bless you.
Thank you Pr. Mark Finley for that brief talk. But i would respeftful and humbly disagree on following points.
1. Christ is the Creator Redeemer.and Saviour.
For HIM saving is beyond our world (for He says our world is but a tiny drop in the bucket, Isaiah 40:15), It is to save us from sin but also 'decontaminate' (wipe clean the effects of sin in other worlds, not ever to be repeated). So, the concept of saving is of God's created beings and here is why;
It is through the efficacy of the cross that the angels of heaven are guarded from apostasy. Without the cross they would be no more secure against evil than were the angels before the fall of Satan. Angelic perfection failed in heaven. Human perfection failed in Eden, the paradise of bliss. All who wish for security in earth or heaven must look to the Lamb of God. The plan of salvation, making manifest the justice and love of God, provides an eternal safeguard against defection in unfallen worlds, as well as among those who shall be redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. Our only hope is perfect trust in the blood of Him who can save to the uttermost all that come unto God by Him. The death of Christ on the cross of Calvary is our only hope in this world, and it will be our theme in the world to come.Oh, we do not comprehend the value of the atonement! If we did, we would talk more about it. The gift of God in his beloved Son was the expression of an incomprehensible love. It was the utmost that God could do to preserve the honor of his law, and still save the transgressor. Why should man not study the theme of redemption? It is the greatest subject that can engage the human mind. If men would contemplate the love of Christ, displayed in the cross, their faith would be strengthened to appropriate the merits of his shed blood, and they would be cleansed and saved from sin.* There are many who will be lost, because they depend on legal religion, or mere repentance for sin. But repentance for sin alone cannot work the salvation of any soul. Man cannot be saved by his own works. Without Christ it is impossible for him to render perfect obedience to the law of God; and heaven can never be gained by an imperfect obedience; for this would place all heaven in jeopardy, and make possible a second rebellion. ST December 30, 1889, par. 4
2. Inheritence-- we'll receive dominion/rulership altogether.
The crowns--Means excellence, power, authority, dominion. The 24 elders again cannot be "human beings", for in Hebews 11 we are told all these faithful men are yet asleep to receive inheritence with us all (you and i are to be in that list, isn't that encouraging?)
- It is true that, there were MANY who resurrected after[with] Jesus rose from the tomb, but the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy is silent about their exact number. We do commonly but wrongly speculate and assume that they were 24, without Scriptural evidence.
The idea that the 24elders are humans tells gives wrong notion that "some have received the dominion already, which is catastrophically wrong as per Hebrews 11, dominion is to be received altogether)
3. 24elders were in Heaven before the scene in Revelation 4 and 5. The scenes described in Revelations 4 and 5 was that of coronation of Christ the Majesty. If humans (ressurected with Jesus are 24elders then they preceded Christ ascension! This again would be twrribly wromg for Christ Himself wanted to be sure that the Father has accepted His sacrifice and thus he ascended first and came back before going to Galilee. This explained well from these quotes among many from Spirit of Prophecy;
All heaven was waiting to welcome the Saviour to the celestial courts. As He ascended, He led the way, and the multitude of captives set free at His resurrection followed. The heavenly host, with shouts and acclamations of praise and celestial song, attended the joyous train. DA 833.2
As they drew near to the city of God, the challenge is given by the escorting angels,- DA 833.3
“Lift up your heads, O ye gates;
And be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors;
And the King of glory shall come in.” DA 833.4
Joyfully the waiting sentinels respond,- DA 833.5
“Who is this King of glory?” DA 833.6
This they say, not because they know not who He is, but because they would hear the answer of exalted praise,- DA 833.7
“The Lord strong and mighty,
The Lord mighty in battle!
Lift up your heads, O ye gates;
Even lift them up, ye everlasting doors;
And the King of glory shall come in.” DA 833.8
Again is heard the challenge, “Who is this King of glory?” for the angels never weary of hearing His name exalted. The escorting angels make reply,- DA 833.9
“The Lord of hosts;
He is the King of glory.” Psalm 24:7-10. DA 833.10
Then the portals of the city of God are opened wide, and the angelic throng sweep through the gates amid a burst of rapturous music. DA 833.11
There is [1] the throne, and around it the rainbow of promise. There are [2] **cherubim* and seraphim.[3]The commanders of the angel hosts, the sons of God, the representatives of the unfallen worlds, are assembled. The heavenly council before which Lucifer had accused God and His Son, the representatives of those sinless realms over which Satan had thought to establish his dominion,-all are there to welcome the Redeemer. They are eager to celebrate His triumph and to glorify their King. DA 834.1
But He waves them back. Not yet; He cannot now receive the coronet of glory and the royal robe. He enters into the presence of His Father. [1]He points to His wounded head, the pierced side, the marred feet; He lifts His hands, bearing the print of nails. [2.]He points to the tokens of His triumph; He presents to God the wave sheaf, those raised with Him as representatives of that great multitude who shall come forth from the grave at His second coming. He approaches the Father, with whom there is joy over one sinner that repents; who rejoices over one with singing. Before the foundations of the earth were laid, the Father and the Son had united in a covenant to redeem man if he should be overcome by Satan. They had clasped Their hands in a solemn pledge that Christ should become the surety for the human race. This pledge Christ has fulfilled. When upon the cross He cried out, “It is finished,” He addressed the Father. The compact had been fully carried out. Now He declares: Father, it is finished. I have done Thy will, O My God. I have completed the work of redemption. If Thy justice is satisfied, “I will that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am.” John 19:30; 17:24. DA 834.2
The voice of God is heard proclaiming that justice is satisfied. Satan is vanquished. Christ's toiling, struggling ones on earth are “accepted in the Beloved.” Ephesians 1:6. Before the heavenly angels and the representatives of unfallen worlds, they are declared justified. Where He is, there His church shall be. “Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.” Psalm 85:10. The Father's arms encircle His Son, and the word is given, “Let all the angels of God worship Him.” Hebrews 1:6. DA 834.3
With joy unutterable, rulers and principalities and powers acknowledge the supremacy of the Prince of life. The angel host prostrate themselves before Him, while the glad shout fills all the courts of heaven, “Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing.” Revelation 5:12. DA 834.4
wow,crystal clear🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿
WOW!
Thanks for watching. May God bless you.
Jesus said it, in my father's house there are many massions there, of course there many would my earth like planets, I have by his grace in the spirit visited some of them, glory to God ❤
How did you visit those planets?
@@HL365 I with Jesus of course
@@HL365
Can I speak to Ps Mark
Praise the Lord this isn't a salvific issue; but I am inclined to believe that the 24 elders are representatives of unfallen worlds. Had Adam not lost dominion to Satan due to sin, he should/would have been at that meeting described in Job. Bohr's exposition is full of Scripture and SoP to further back this point.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Perhaps, yet we must notice from Revelation 5:8-10, the words of these same elders: "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast ; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth". It appears that these elders identify themselves as sinners from earth who have been redeemed. Sin exists only on this world as we read in Revelation 12: 10-12. Those from unfallen worlds need no redemption.
Please what is pr bohr YT channel
@@toluogunrinde2894 Secrets Unsealed
If it has to do with the sanctuary, it is a salvation issue.
Amen 🙏
Thanks for watching. May God bless you.
I'm assuming pre trib is not an option, otherwise the elders can very well be entirety of the church at the time of the coming of the Lord, some time before the 1st Seal is broken.
Please read this: www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/11/t/anything-but-secret
in Psalms 77:13 we find useful divine counsel. The sanctuary on earth was a copy of the one in heaven. Understand this and it will be easy to figure out who the 24 elders are.
Thanks for your comment.
Would Moses, Elijah, and Enoch be part of this group or only people raised during Christ's resurrection?
1 TIMOTHY 6:13-16 , " 13.I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
14That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
WHAT DOES THIS MEANS ?
" WHO ONLY HATH IMMORTALITY "
SHALOM !
You know it’s not a far fetched possibility. I’d like to believe some of the biblical greats were present in that first resurrection as well as people the Bible is silent on.
Elijah and Enoch were taken into Heaven alive, without ever seeing death. And Moses died and was resurrected, following a dispute over his body in the Book of Jude. So they couldn't be the 24 Elders. Never the less, there are humans in Heaven right now, including the Lord, Jesus Christ, who's fully human and God. God bless.
@@messengerisrael3817 the one alone having immortality is Jesus Christ for in these verses apostle Paul compares him to earthly worldly rulers who do not have immortality because they can and do die.
The prophet is saying that those elders are strong angels, the highest angels.
Rev.5:9,10 is not referring to the elders from v.8. It is already referring to the saints which are first mentioned in v.8 at the end.
And perhaps that phrase in v.9 "sing a new song" pointing already to the 144k from Rev.14:3
The God of all truth bless us with knowledge.
Thanks for your comment.
THESE ARE THE 24 ELDERS :
1 CHRONICLES 24 , THE 24 SONS OF AARON THROUGH ELEAZAR AND ITHAMAR .Eleazar .
THESE WILL BE IN THE FIRST RESURRECTION ( REVELATION 7:1-8 ) ; WHICH ARE THE 144,000 ; WHO ARE THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL ; THE ONLY NATION UNDER THE FATHER'S LAW .
REVELATION 14:1-5 , " 1.And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the FIRSTFRUITS UNTO GOD AND TO THE LAMB .
5And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
THE FIRSTFRUITS FROM THE DEAD .
JESUS WILL REIGN 1000 YEARS IN HIS KINGDOM AT MOUNT ZION ON THIS EARTH .
ISAIAH 2:1-3 , " 1.The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
ROMANS 8:22-23 , " 22.For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
THE WHOLE CREATION WOULD BE REVELATION 7:9-17 ; WHICH ARE IN THE FATHER'S KINGDOM , IN NEW JERUSALEM , ON THE NEW EARTH ; WHICH ARE PEOPLE FROM ALL NATIONS .
BUT OURSELVES ALSO , WHICH HAVE THE FIRSTFRUITS , WOULD BE REVELATION 7:1-8 ; WHICH ARE THE ISRAELITES IN JESUS CHRIST KINGDOM ; THE SAINTS ; THE ELECTION THAT PAUL TALKS ABOUT IN ROMANS 11:5-7 .
ROMANS 11:5-7 , " 5.Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6.And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7.What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
REVELATION 20:4 , " 4.And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
SHALOM !
@@messengerisrael3817 Nope, it is the church raptured before the tribulation.
@@justmyopinion7
REVELATION 21:9-12 , " 9.And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
THE CHURCH IS THE COVENANT BETWEEN THE FATHER AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL ; WITH JESUS CHRIST BEING THE MEDIATOR OF THE COVENANT , THE HEAD IF THE CHURCH , AND THE KING OF ISRAEL . BELIEVING GENTILES ARE GRAFTED INTO THE CHURCH THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST ; NOT UNDER THE LAW OF THE FATHER , BUT UNDER THE LAW TO CHRIST .
WHEN JESUS CHRIST RETURNS TO THIS EARTH TO GATHER HIS BRIDE , AND SETUP HIS KINGDOM IN REVELATION 19:11-21 ; THIS HAPPENS JUST AFTER THE GREAT WHORE , OR THE SEVENTH KING IS DESTROYED BY THE TEN KINGS IN REVELATIONS 17 & 18 . IT IS THE TEN KINGS , OR THE TOES ON THE FEET OF THE STATUE IN DANIEL 2 , THAT THE STONE NOT MADE WITH HANDS SMOTE .
REVELATION 17:1,12-17 , " 1.And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the GREAT WHORE that sitteth upon many waters:
12.And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the WHORE sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
NOTE : THE MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB AND HIS BRIDE THE CHURCH , HAPPENS AS CHRIST RETURNS TO THIS EARTH TO SETUP HIS KINGDOM FOR 1000 YEARS .
REVELATION 19:1-9 , " 1.And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged THE GREAT WHORE , which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
3And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
4And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
5And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
6And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thundering's, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
REVELATION 19:11-21 , TALKS ABOUT CHRIST RETURNING WITH HIS BRIDE TO FIGHT THE WICKED .
NOTE: THE ONES IN REVELATION 19:8 , ARE THE SAME ONES IN REVELATION 19:14 . PLEASE SHOW ME THE CHURCH RAPTURED BEFORE THE TRIBULATION ? THE CHURCH IS THE COVENANT BETWEEN THE FATHER AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL ; WITH THE GREAT TRIBULATION OF ISRAEL FROM 73 A.D. , UNTIL THE RETURN OF CHRIST .
THIS IS THE BRIDE OF THE LAMB , WHICH WILL REIGN AND JUDGE WITH JESUS CHRIST FOR 1000 YEARS ; THE ONES IN THE FIRST RESURRECTION .
REVELATION 7:1-4 , " 1.And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
JESUS CHRIST RETURNS AT THE OPENING OF THE SIXTH SEAL ; GATHER THE ELECT/SAINTS/144,000 ISRAELITES ; PREDESTINATED TO REST WITH HIM ON THE SEVENTH DAY .
ROMANS 11:7 , " 7.What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
MATTHEW 24:31 , " 31.And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
IN REVELATION 7:9-17 , THIS IS IN THE FATHER'S KINGDOM , ON THE NEW EARTH , IN NEW JERUSALEM ; AT THE END OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION OF MAN AFTER ADAM FALL TO SATAN .
ROMANS 8:22-23 , " 22.For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
ROMANS 8:22 , IS IN THE FATHER'S KINGDOM ON THE EIGHTH DAY .
ROMANS 8:23 , IS IN JESUS CHRIST KINGDOM ON THE SEVENTH DAY .
REVELATION 14:1-5 , " 1.And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being THE FIRSTFRUITS UNTO GOD AND TO THE LAMB .
5And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
THE 144,000 ARE THE FIRSTFRUITS UNTO GOD AND THE LAMB .
IN REVELATION 21:9-12 , THIS WILL INCLUDE ALL ISRAEL THAT ARE SAVED , NOT JUST THE 144,000 IN CHRIST KINGDOM .
IN GENESIS 10 , ALL THE NATIONS WERE GIVEN THEIR INHERITANCE ; THE LANDS WHERE THEY WILL DWELL FOREVER . ISRAEL WAS GIVEN THE LAND OF CANAAN AS A EVERLASTING INHERITANCE ; BUT ISRAEL IS ALSO THE LOT OF GOD INHERITANCE ; WHO WILL DWELL WITH THEM FOREVER .
DEUTERONOMY 32:7-9 , 7.Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee.
8When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
9For the LORD'S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.
ALL NATIONS SAVED WILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO ENTER INTO NEW JERUSALEM AT ANYTIME
SHALOM !
@@messengerisrael3817 When we look at Rev 5:8-10 we see that there are the 24 elders that are from every tongue, nation, kindred and people.
They have harps and vials in their hands and are sitting on thrones around God and are singing to Jesus "You are worthy to take the book and open the seals thereof"
They also say that they are redeemed from the earth onto God by the Blood of the lamb and are made kings and priests onto God.
In scripture there are only 3 people/entities that are priests and kings....
1. Melchizedek
2. Jesus Christ
3. The church
And.... they are witnessing Jesus receiving the scroll to open the first seal. For me, that's pre-trib.
Shalom!
I agree that the 24 elders are from earth...I've heard a popular SDA pastor saying the 24 elders are Angels......Well, Jesus did not come to earth to die for Angels....
Thanks for your comment. May God bless you.
thats kinda unfair brother to brush off that some other pastor you are talking about, our salvation has arrested the attention of the whole universe, including the unfallen worlds, so to say it shallowly like that is not wise. light is progressive, lets pray that we may understand for ourselves
Well if you look at Rev 7:11 it is IMPOSSIBLE that they can be angels. SDA has false teachings and EGW is a false prophet, so I would be very careful of her teachings.
The 24 elders are the church raptured before the tribulation.
Nice. the 24 elders: 1 Chron 24 . King David's organizes the 24 priest divisions of priest in the temple of God, to serve.
Thanks for your comment.
Pastor Mark please thanks for everything but please it's high time we stop adhering to the traditional view of the 24 elders as those who resurrected and ascended to heaven with Christ....
Both the Bible and the SoP clearly gives an indication that the 24 elders are Strong Angelic Order... Pastor Stephen Bohr has a clear exposition on who the 24 Elders are...
The traditional view has proven yet can't stand the description the bible gives to the 24 elders... they are clearly the highest of Angels in the angelic order not redeemed men...
Thanks
I agree with you.
I disagree, simply because no angels, strong or not, have been redeemed by Jesus for anything! They haven’t gone through ANY of the trials or struggles of sin, much less tribulations!
I’ve seen Pastor Bohr’s presentation, but I disagree with his assessment that ‘the sons of God’ were also Strong Angels!
I think that we will know for certain, when WE get to Heaven. Until then, we don’t need to squabble about it. 😇
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Where's your scriptural reference?
@@caroleceres it seems you haven't taken any proper study on this subject and you should do...
To say the sons of GOD in Job are not angels is to clear show that you haven't really studied this subject well...
Read Job 38:7 and you will know Angel's are also referred to as sons of GOD...
And again no where in the book of revelation does it suggest that the 24 elders were redeemed...its only the liv that renders it as such...
Come to think of it...the 24 elders were already in heaven in Revelations 4 before christ arrived in chapter 5....
The 24 elders cant be the redeemed from earth...they aren't any human order...
The truth is we do not know for certain. Any theory or explanation would be speculation. Does this affect my walk with Jesus and ultimately my salvation? No.
Yes we do know for certain who the 24 elders are. Ellen White explains perfectly with out question, she is clear. The 24 elders, the sons of God, are rulers of the unfallen worlds. Here is a direct copy and paste from Ellen White The Spirit of Prophecy In The Advent Movement Chaper 6 sub-title The Return of Jesus After The Reserrection. xlvi The Spirit of Prophecy in the Advent Movement - “Then the portals of the city of God are opened wide, and the
angelic throng sweep through the gates amid a burst of rapturous music.
“There is the throne, and around it the rainbow of promise. There
are cherubim and seraphim. The commanders of the angel hosts,
the sons of God, the representatives of the unfallen worlds, are
assembled. The heavenly council before which Lucifer had accused
God and His Son, the representatives of those sinless realms over
which Satan had thought to establish his dominion,-all are there
to welcome the Redeemer.
@@marcrivers1 Thank you for your response. The Bible doesn’t say this though.
You're right, that's true, but if you are an
SDA then you know you can trust the writing of EGW.@@brianmwesigwa9871
Is there anywhere in the old testament where anyone raise from the dead to minister in the Sanctuary?
Not that I know of.
Revelation 5:5 And saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
EGW comment: John was distressed at the utter inability of any human being or angelic intelligence to read the words, or even to look thereon. His soul was wrought up to such a point of agony and suspense that had compassion on him, and laying his hand on him assuringly, said, "Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof" [verse 5]. {12MR 296.4}
A similar expression "strong angel" is seen in Revelation 5:2. To me this is very interesting in light of the fact that the conflict is Cosmic and involves all the universal administration. We see this in the book of Job as well. Satan's accusations were carried before this great council of super strong and intelligent rulers in the case of Job. Similarly at the end they would be involved in the final movements in the Great Controversy. That series on the 24 elders by Elder Bohr brought this to my attention.
I'm with u there my dear
EGW is a false teacher. The 24 elders are the church raptured before the tribulation.
@justmyopinion7 Is that so? Provide some evidence for both claims or are these justyouropinions
@@broclay1073 The Bible clearly teaches that the 24 elders are people from every tribe, nation, kindred and tongue REDEEMED by the blood of the lamb onto God, and made KINGS AND PRIESTS onto God to rule with Him. There are only 3 entities/people in the Bible that are kings and priests... 1. Melchizedek 2. Jesus Christ 3. The church (true believers). Since it is definitely not the first 2, it is definitely the church. They are there from the rapture if you reference Rev 3:10 and to prove it is pre-trib.... they are witnessing Jesus receiving the scroll and opening the FIRST seal!
Stop interpreting scripture your own way.... let scripture interpret scripture.
@justmyopinion7 Going from below up. Keeping one from the hour of temptation does not equal a pretribulation rapture, Jesus prayed John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. God's people will go through that hour and victoriously come out unscaved. There are many examples of that Biblically and Rev 7:14 rubbishes any pre-tribulation enterprise. Now there are beings in the Bible, the four beasts which sing the same song the 24 elders sing Rev 5:8-14 are we to conclude then that these entities are also from the 12 tribes redeemed in the pretribulation rapture? The song they sing may have something in it to reconsider. Maybe the word us and them/men are closer than you think.
“And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.” Rev 5:9,10
They were redeemed by the blood of Christ out of EVERY kindred, language people and nation…in other words…they are predominantly GENTILE believers…which means, they definitely are not the 12 patriarchs and the 12 apostles (who are all Jewish).
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
@@HL365 Ty! I love Pastor Mark, even if I see things a little differently.
Absolutely right! The 24 elders are the church raptured before the tribulation.
Pastor, I noticed u shared your opinion. Even your words express uncertainty who the 24 Elders are. E G W tells us who they are in her writings. Why don't you check it out and tell us what it says instead of your opinion.
In Job 1:6 and Job 2:1, There's mention of Son's of God presenting themselves before the Lord. Job one of the oldest books in the Bible has mentioned these Sons before the Resurrection. So who are they then? There not angels or leaders of tribes.
If they are many worlds why are they not discovered?
In the finite and limited knowledge we have we cannot fully understand all of the mysteries. But the Bible tells us that there are other worlds. Hebrews 1:1,2 says, "1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed her of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"
This verse tells us that God made the worlds.
@@HL365 In many translations it means universe or just world. So I come to believe that the “worlds” meaning is the world that is up in heaven, the world that we are in, and there’re hidden worlds that we cannot see physically where the welfare of good and evil occurs and also where the dead are could also be called another world. I think we are the only Earth and the only humans God has created. With that being said in the beginning of Hebrews chapter one, God speaks about our ancestors from the Old Testament. Next it mentions how we are in the final days when we’ve received the words of Jesus. “And now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he created the universe.” This is where I think you’ve got it confused with all due respect, its just mentions Jesus being the source of all creation or (worlds). Whats your opinion in this? - Samuel
Stephen Bohr has a better explanation of the 24 elders. Different from this one.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
They are representatives of the unfallen world's I to have watched the 24 elders series and believe that this is correct....as the 24 elders were in the sanctuary before Jesus returned after his resurrection there fore it can't be the ones that rose with Christ...Ellen G White also makes this very clear... God bless
Thanks for watching. May God bless you.
EGW is a false prophet and her father is satan. If the 24 elders is from an unfallen world then why are they REDEEMED by the BLOOD of Jesus? They are the church raptured before the tribulation.
What is the name of the 24 kings or elders?
The Bible doesn't give us the name of the 24 kings or elders.
24 elders not in Scripture until mat .27.52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Lev23.10Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:
11And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
The High Priest was resurrected Saturday just before sundown on the third day first begotten of the dead.
Firstfruits resurrected after dark. First day of the week by the High Priest
Hallelujah!
Thanks for your comment.
@HL365 HAPPY HANUKKAH/HAVE YOU BEEN ASSIMILATED ?
Wisemen enter a house , see a young child not a babe.
Mat.2.9¶When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
10When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
11And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.
Mary and Joseph offer a poor man's sacrifice, no gold.
Leviticus 12.1-8
Luke 2.22¶And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;
23(As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)
24And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.
During His ministry He does Hanukkah.
Jhn.10.22¶And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
Also known as the Festival of Lights.
Jhn.8.12¶Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Colossians 2.16¶Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Lev.23.39¶Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.
Jhn1.14¶And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Dwelt G4637 skee-nah-oh tent/Tabernacles Hebrew suka/ tent, Sukote/ Tabernacles
Takes place on God's calendar on the 15th day of the 7th month (late Sept. early Oct.)
Rev.21.3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Yeshua/Jesus goes to the Temple in Jerusalem for Hanukkah/Feast of Dedication, is about the story of the Macabees's assimilation into Helenization, their fight against it.
Same reason some people claim pagan child sacrifice rituals as God's Holy Days.
Can you belive the nerve of some people ?
Mat.2.11And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.
G3813 - paidion, young child
Outline of Biblical Usage:
a young child, a little boy, a little girl
infants
children, little ones
an infant
of a (male) child just recently born
of a more advanced child; of a mature child;
metaph. children (like children) in intellect
KJV Translation Count: 51x
The KJV translates Strongs G3813 in the following manner: child (25x), little child (12x), young child (10x), damsel (4x).
KJV translates G3818 zero times as infant
Luke 2.16And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.
G1025 - brephos, babe
Outline of Biblical Usage:
an unborn child, embryo, a foetus
a new-born child, an infant, a babe
KJV Translation Count: 8x
The KJV translates Strongs G1025 in the following manner: babe (5x), child (1x), infant (1x), young child (1x).
X-mass is no doubt a STRONG DELUSION
@HL365 In the chronology of events, which comes ?
(1)
Mat.28.1 ¶In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
(2)
Jhn.20.1 ¶The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
2Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
Let's zoom in
(1) Mat.28.1...as it began to dawn...
(2) Jhn.20.1...when it was yet dark...
I'am confident that a 10y.o knows that "when it was yet dark ", comes before "as it began to dawn."
Jhn.20.1-2 Paraphrased. Mary Magdalene arrives at the tomb when it is dark, and the tomb is empty, she hasn't seen any angels or a resurrected Measiah.
Iam positive that you need a body in the tomb at sunrise to have a Easter Sunday Sunrise Resurrection.
Mat.12.40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Mat.16.21¶From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Three days, three nights, raised on the third day.
Very specific, only works one way.
Jhn.12.1¶Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.
2There they made him a supper;
Exo.12.1¶And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying,
2This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
3Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:
6And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
When it is dark, begins the 15th, Passover. The first meal of the Feast of Unleavened Bread is the Passover meal (sedar)
The 10th-14th are "preparation days"
The 10th-15th is six days.
Let's subtract six days from the 15th day of the month. Brings us to the 9th day of the month.
He travels from Bethpage to Bethany (other three Gospels) and they prepare for him a supper. He travels, they prepare supper. This is not a Sabbath day, this is Friday the 9th, that evening begins the weekly Sabbath the 10th, they have a Sabbath night supper. Because Saturday is the Sabbath, the 10th, he rides into town on Sunday the 11th.
Wednesday is the 14th, the day Israel sacrificed the Passover Lamb of God, Saturday is the 17th, He comes out of the tomb just before sundown on the weekly Sabbath, the third day.
Mat.27.52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53And came out of the graves AFTER HIS RESURRECTION, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. (Aka 24 elders)
These are the (G536first fruits) can be the offering or the one presenting the offering. The reader has to decide.
Lev.23.9¶And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
10Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:
11And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
In this scenario Messiah is the High Priest.
Messiah was resurrected just before sundown on the weekly Sabbath the 17th, the First Born from the dead. The first fruits were resurrected by the Messiah after sundown "the morrow after the sabbath", Sunday the 18th.
Do you know what I can not find in Scripture anywhere ?
The first Sunday after the first fullmoon after the spring equinox
Second Witness
Luke.24.21 b
21But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and (b) beside all this, to day is the third day SINCE these things were done.
G575 SINCE, transliterated apo, to separate, especially in composition. Literally separate the first day of the week from the day of crucifixion with three days , makes Sunday the fourth day and Wednesday the day of crucifixion
Good Works
Eph.2.10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
What are these "good works" that God had before ordained, that we should walk in them?
Let's do a quick word study on the word "WALK"
Exodus 18:20 KJV - And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must WALK, and the work that they must do.
Leviticus 18:3 KJV - After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye WALK in their ordinances.
Leviticus 18:4 KJV - Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to WALK therein: I am the LORD your God.
Deuteronomy 5:33 KJV - Ye shall WALK in all the ways which the LORD your God hath commanded you, that ye may live, and that it may be well with you, and that ye may prolong your days in the land which ye shall possess.
Deuteronomy 8:6 KJV - Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to WALK in his ways, and to fear him.
Leviticus 20:23 KJV - And ye shall not WALK in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
Deuteronomy 13:4 KJV - Ye shall WALK after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Deuteronomy 19:9 KJV - If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to WALK ever in his ways; then shalt thou add three cities more for thee, beside these three:
Deuteronomy 10:12 KJV - And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to WALK in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 26:17 KJV - Thou hast avouched the LORD this day to be thy God, and to WALK in his ways, and to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and to hearken unto his voice:
Deuteronomy 29:19 KJV - And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I WALK in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:
Deuteronomy 28:9 KJV - The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and WALK in his ways.
Deuteronomy 30.16In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to WALK in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
This is only a partial list.
Again, I believe a 10y.o could pick up on this .
Do you know what's going on ?
A Strong Delusion, brought on by the teaching of the traditions of men, as if they were the Word of God, and prefering the lie to the Truth.
The Lie, the Council of Nicaea.
The Truth, the Counsel of God, Gen-Rev.
Anti-christ is also anti-Commandments of God, anti Feasts of the LORD.
The same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, He who was, who is, and who is to come.
Walk in His ways , you will be blessed when you come in, blessed when you go out.
The titans.. duhhh…
What do you mean?
Indeed the twenty four elders are those who were resurrected with Christ early on the resurrection morning but it is more specific than that. Remember, these individuals have not had their cases reviewed in the Judgment yet. “As Christ arose, He brought from the grave a multitude of captives. The earthquake at His death had rent open their graves, and when He arose, they came forth with Him. They were those who had been co-laborers with God, and who at the cost of their lives had borne testimony to the truth. Now they were to be witnesses for Him who had raised them from the dead.” DA 786.1 Those brought forth at Christ’s resurrection were martyrs. There’s a specific reason. “those who were martyred for their faith were secured to Christ and accounted of Him as conquerors.” GC 42.1 The Judgment assures the unfallen worlds that the redeemed are safe to save and the selection of these victorious martyrs guarantees that they will not reinfect the universe with sin.
Thanks for your comment.
It is impossible that the 24 elders were those resurrected with Christ. Revelation 4 has them in heaven BEFORE Christ ascended and the Bible in Rev.4 and SOP in Desire of Ages last few pages have them following Jesus when He enters heaven.
@@Brown1844 Seems a bit of contradiction for the twenty four elders to both be in heaven before Christ’s ascension and to follow him there. I think you have made some assumptions that require explanation and scriptural support. Please illuminate.
confusing
How is it confusing? Please email us at info@hopelives365.com and we would be glad to talk to you about it.
Your explanation is flawed, Pastor Mark . These resurrected individuals follow Jesus when He ascended, not before! They were not in heaven before Christ as were the 24 elders! Ellen White tells us who they are in the final chapter and last few pages of DA. Pastor Stephen Bohr got it right get his study on RUclips!!
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
EGW teaches false doctrine. Does Stephen Bohr say it is the church raptured before the tribulation?
The 24 elders are Yahudim, and none else....
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
@@HL365 you're welcome, yet, such is scripture, and not my opinion👊💜
MattithYahu 13:11 Gift of YaHU'aH
“He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them, {Gentiles}, it is not given.”
Interesting but completely SPECULATION and NON-SCRIPTURAL! This is what happens when you interpret the Word the way you want to. The Bible clearly teaches that the 24 elders are people from every tribe, nation, kindred and tongue REDEEMED by the blood of the lamb onto God, and made KINGS AND PRIESTS onto God to rule with Him. There are only 3 entities/people in the Bible that are kings and priests... 1. Melchizedek 2. Jesus Christ 3. The church (true believers). Since it is definitely not the first 2, it is definitely the church. They are there from the rapture if you reference Rev 3:10 and to prove it is pre-trib.... they are witnessing Jesus receiving the scroll and opening the FIRST seal!
Stop interpreting scripture your own way.... let scripture interpret scripture.
Hehehe.. my 24 elders.. I hide my 24 angels😇 and 144000, It's my secret 🙏
I don't want to tell anybody✌️😅
Not sure I understand what you are saying.
The 24 elders are the 12 Fathers from Israel,and the 12 Disciples as a foundation! There are not the Humans resurrected when Jesus was risen ,the there were uncountable!
It's difficult for most popular preachers to change their long held traditional views even if evidence for the other view is strong
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Why did JESUS choose Judas knowing he was evil, and what is the lesson for us , wouldn't it have been better for Judas if JESUS didn't choose him ,
Judas came by himself.. Jesus never appointed him
You're asked a very good question. Please email us at info@hopelives365.com and we would love to answer it for you.
You do not"Know"if Jesus Christ is the Son of God or not. It's impossible to "know"God is real or not as well. Islam Branches off a lie. Atheist all have Pride and believe a lie. There's no way to kno
🙄God is REAL, Jesus of Christ of Nazareth is God reincarnate.
@DynastyofPenguins
YES , THERE IS A WAY TO KNOW ; TIME WILL REVEAL THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION .
IF THERE IS NO GOD , AND ALL ENDS AFTER YOU DIE , THEN IT DOES NOT MATTER .
IF THERE IS A GOD , AND YOU ARE NOT DOING WHAT HE COMMANDS YOU , THEN THAT IS BAD FOR YOU .
I REFER TO BELIEVE ; THE OTHER WAY DOES NOT MATTER ; ONLY BELIEVING HAST A POSSIBLE FUTURE ; GOOD OR BAD .
SHALOM !
There are no women elders in the Bible. Stop your agenda
The elder here is symbolic.
@@HL365 not in it’s context