This tree looks perfectly in proportion, like a real tree. I don't get the aesthetic of those short fat trunked trees. No old mature tree looks short and fat. They might be fat at the base but not short. Usually the trunk or 2 trunks or even more are all thick and long. 2/3 of the tree is covered with thick branching, only 1/3 is the visible base trunk that is a single trunk. By making this tree shorter it will be 1/5 trunk and 1/5 branching. That is not how beautiful trees grow.
Great observations, thank you! In the end I decided to keep the height as you say, but I’m afraid that I’m rebuilding the apex. It will be more true to the form of a deciduous tree as you say, but will take time to develop. Thanks for your thoughts, really appreciate it
I totally agree with Triin that the obsession with squat, thick trees results in conical or pyramid shaped trees that, though interesting, look cartoonish and ridiculous and do not look like anything in nature. Give me a nice willowy, natural looking maple than something that looks like the poop 💩 emoji with arms. 🤣🤣🤣 As regards chopping trees apex, the tree looks lovely as is. I’d be delighted to have that in my collection.
My thoughts are in reality hornbeam are somewhat shorter fat trunked trees. The only way to make a tree in miniature look convincing is to somewhat exaggerate the proportions. Most bonsai artists Loosely fallow the 6" hight to 1" thick base Which in reality more like a 10" to 1" Proportion that gives miniature tree's a very convincing lookalike appeal to their bigger brother's out in nature..
As with all things in an art form….there are more ways to express yourself than 100% realism. I saw a great article on sumo trunk bonsai and that the proportions are meant to emulate how to see a tree when you stand at the base and look directly up through to the canopy. The low trunk taking up the majority of your view and the top of the tree coming to an exaggerated point. Everybody has preferences but….don’t become one of those people that completely disregard something because you don’t enjoy it. It’s a shame to miss out on a large proportion of what bonsai has to offer
A friend has pointed out a couple of things I’d like to share: 1. Hiding wiring isn’t as important as the wire doing it’s job - it needs to be functional, subtle is just a bonus. Without wraps around the trunk, it is likely the wire will be unstable (I get away with it here). Have a look at the structural wiring video by Mirai that I have linked in the description for more info. 2. Timing. It’s not the best timing this far beyond leaf drop and with some of the fine twigging present, the tree will need protection. I chose this sub-optimal timing because I find Carpinus b. bleed in spring. It would have been better to wait until the first flush has hardened next season if protection wasn’t available.
No chop for me, it looks like a lovely natural tree and the balance between the main trunk and the secondary trunk is just right. I like the height to trunk size to but that's just my opinion.
Firstly, great hornbeam, I love hornbeam. Please don't chop or air layer. The height of the two trunks is perfect. IMHO you would lose a lot of the value of the tree by reducing the height of either of the two trunks. However at some point I would consider reducing the width of the silhouette, especially in the bottom half of the tree and this should improve the proportions of the tree and allow it to look the best for it's height.
the naturel character of hornbeam in a free position in a open forrest is more trunks winding in every direction. Prune to reach that character is what I would do. But a Great choise to make a bonsai from this multitrunk.
Martin Tijdgat it’s hard to find good reference images for natural hornbeam. Also, it is a good bonsai in 2 years, or a better naturalistic tree in 10 years... ah decisions decisions 🙂
Thanks for the tutorials. Really enjoy the detailed thoughts that go into developing your trees. For what it’s worth I agree with previous comments and think you should not chop the larger trunk. I think there must be a clear difference in the heights of the twin trucks that would be lost with the chop you are considering. There is a nice contrast in sizes now that looks good as it is and the apex of the larger trunk is developing nicely. Think it would take some years to redress the balance and develop the apex if you took the trunk down to where you have suggested.. Keep up the good work and keep the vids coming,
Incredible ramification and new growth from this sweeeet split trunk. I do not wire, but thank you for the clockwise/counter fact. Knowledge is power. Great video!!! 😎🌲🌳
I’m just passing along the message, full kudos to Ryan Neil and the pro’s 🙂 Thanks for watching! Looking forward to some free time over the holidays to dive into your channel 👍
Hornbeams are my favourite trees! Nice specimen but id remove that really small branch at the bottom. i just donw know why you would want a branch there haha
As a local goverment tree officer I see a lot of almost hawtorn-like Carpinus b. But there must be forrest close to you to find them. Let it grow, wait a bit and see what happens. This basis is excellent even in 10 Years.
I don't feel like it really needs to be cut back at all. It does have it's own character as it is. I like it. The only thing that does annoy me is this eye shape bend ^^ Normally I am more the guy who comments like : hack it back !
Personally I would air layer the top and make another bonsai from that. However if you decide not to I would reduce the number of branches at your apex this will stop the bulge that is forming. Either way you have an amazing tree on your hands 👍
If you choose to chop then you should consider reducing the height of the second trunk. Both trunks at the same height will make it hard for your eyes won't know which trunk to take as you journey up the tree.
I don't think thats too tall, but those branches on top canopy look too thick for me. Maybe you can chop it there and pull up the remaining branch with heavy wire (those two are too thick for upper part but ideal to be a new leader). The best part is buds will explode after chop, espcialy around the scar. Use then as new branch with good proportion. But still im happy to see as it is. Thats a beautiful one :).
Just got a semi Bonsai Horn Beam. The middle of the seem is rather empty without much branches. I want to thread graft it at least by 3 or 4 braches . Starting in about a month from now What do you think my friend ?
Thanks for the sub! I purchased this tree as a fairly developed tree that was in poor health. It was in bad soil and had very poor root system. I repotted it in Spring 2019 and allowed it to grow all season. I believe it was grown from nursery stock, almost certainly wasn’t collected. Thanks, Darren
@@grobonsai Very nice. Does the "slingshot" crotch bother you? Perhaps, heavy wiring (2/0 wire ?) of one of the trunks, on a ten-year plan, would decrease the symmetry?
@John Otter It does bother me at times. Sometimes I accept and love the tree as it is, ‘faults’ and all. Other days I either want to take a saw to it or sell the tree... 🙂
Dont chop it. It is a beauty as it is. Like the twin trunk! There are plenty single trunks out there in hedges and as a bonsai. Keep it as it is and build more ramification on the lower branches. 😉
How old do you think it is? Cutting the top off isn't the worst idea, there is alot going on up there, maybe try thinning it out and see how that goes. And if you decide on taking the 2nd trunk down, defo airlayer it!!
I’m not sure on the age Ian, I should ask the previous owner. Thanks my friend 🙏 I almost certainly don’t have the guts to do anything very drastic, but thought I’d throw it out there as an option 🤷♂️😀
@@grobonsai Its clearly had time and effor go in to it, you cant just hack off bits without thinking about it and havin a plan as such. But its good to ask the questions, that's how a plan will form and the right choice will be made
This tree looks perfectly in proportion, like a real tree. I don't get the aesthetic of those short fat trunked trees. No old mature tree looks short and fat. They might be fat at the base but not short. Usually the trunk or 2 trunks or even more are all thick and long. 2/3 of the tree is covered with thick branching, only 1/3 is the visible base trunk that is a single trunk. By making this tree shorter it will be 1/5 trunk and 1/5 branching. That is not how beautiful trees grow.
Great observations, thank you! In the end I decided to keep the height as you say, but I’m afraid that I’m rebuilding the apex. It will be more true to the form of a deciduous tree as you say, but will take time to develop. Thanks for your thoughts, really appreciate it
I totally agree with Triin that the obsession with squat, thick trees results in conical or pyramid shaped trees that, though interesting, look cartoonish and ridiculous and do not look like anything in nature. Give me a nice willowy, natural looking maple than something that looks like the poop 💩 emoji with arms. 🤣🤣🤣
As regards chopping trees apex, the tree looks lovely as is. I’d be delighted to have that in my collection.
My thoughts are in reality hornbeam are somewhat shorter fat trunked trees. The only way to make a tree in miniature look convincing is to somewhat exaggerate the proportions. Most bonsai artists Loosely fallow the 6" hight to 1" thick base Which in reality more like a 10" to 1" Proportion that gives miniature tree's a very convincing lookalike appeal to their bigger brother's out in nature..
As with all things in an art form….there are more ways to express yourself than 100% realism. I saw a great article on sumo trunk bonsai and that the proportions are meant to emulate how to see a tree when you stand at the base and look directly up through to the canopy. The low trunk taking up the majority of your view and the top of the tree coming to an exaggerated point.
Everybody has preferences but….don’t become one of those people that completely disregard something because you don’t enjoy it. It’s a shame to miss out on a large proportion of what bonsai has to offer
A friend has pointed out a couple of things I’d like to share:
1. Hiding wiring isn’t as important as the wire doing it’s job - it needs to be functional, subtle is just a bonus. Without wraps around the trunk, it is likely the wire will be unstable (I get away with it here). Have a look at the structural wiring video by Mirai that I have linked in the description for more info.
2. Timing. It’s not the best timing this far beyond leaf drop and with some of the fine twigging present, the tree will need protection. I chose this sub-optimal timing because I find Carpinus b. bleed in spring. It would have been better to wait until the first flush has hardened next season if protection wasn’t available.
Pruning Acer, Betula, Juglans and this Carpinus is a risk for bleeding in the period januari - april. Let it get in leaf before pruning alain.
No chop for me, it looks like a lovely natural tree and the balance between the main trunk and the secondary trunk is just right. I like the height to trunk size to but that's just my opinion.
Thanks, your opinions are welcome, I appreciate your thoughts
I wouldn't have the heart to chop such a beautiful tree. Great vids mate.👍
Thanks Phil, same here mate, hence the umming, ahhing, and asking for advice haha 😆 Thanks for the comment
Beautiful tree. Look forward to updates
Firstly, great hornbeam, I love hornbeam. Please don't chop or air layer. The height of the two trunks is perfect. IMHO you would lose a lot of the value of the tree by reducing the height of either of the two trunks. However at some point I would consider reducing the width of the silhouette, especially in the bottom half of the tree and this should improve the proportions of the tree and allow it to look the best for it's height.
Thank you Barney
the naturel character of hornbeam in a free position in a open forrest is more trunks winding in every direction. Prune to reach that character is what I would do.
But a Great choise to make a bonsai from this multitrunk.
Martin Tijdgat it’s hard to find good reference images for natural hornbeam. Also, it is a good bonsai in 2 years, or a better naturalistic tree in 10 years... ah decisions decisions 🙂
Walking through a open woonland forrest you are finding them even under oaks and beech or at the rim of fields. Enjoy walking
I think it looks fine as is. If you reduce the apex of the main trunk then you need to do similar to the secondary trunk
Thanks for your feedback, that’s a good point 🙏
Thanks for the tutorials. Really enjoy the detailed thoughts that go into developing your trees. For what it’s worth I agree with previous comments and think you should not chop the larger trunk. I think there must be a clear difference in the heights of the twin trucks that would be lost with the chop you are considering. There is a nice contrast in sizes now that looks good as it is and the apex of the larger trunk is developing nicely. Think it would take some years to redress the balance and develop the apex if you took the trunk down to where you have suggested.. Keep up the good work and keep the vids coming,
Thanks for your feedback, appreciate it 👍👍
Strong work with improving the lighting 👍🏽. Aloha from Hawaii.
What a beautiful tree. Very nice channel!
Thanks so much 🙏
Incredible ramification and new growth from this sweeeet split trunk. I do not wire, but thank you for the clockwise/counter fact. Knowledge is power. Great video!!! 😎🌲🌳
I’m just passing along the message, full kudos to Ryan Neil and the pro’s 🙂 Thanks for watching! Looking forward to some free time over the holidays to dive into your channel 👍
@@grobonsai sounds great!!!
Beautiful tree (as is) IMO. But, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Love your vids and explanation of your thought process. Thanks
Thanks for watching and for sharing your input Matt, appreciated 🙏
Hornbeams are my favourite trees! Nice specimen but id remove that really small branch at the bottom. i just donw know why you would want a branch there haha
A comnent to let you know, that your vids are on the right track:)
Thanks for watching and letting me know 🙏
As a local goverment tree officer I see a lot of almost hawtorn-like Carpinus b.
But there must be forrest close to you to find them.
Let it grow, wait a bit and see what happens. This basis is excellent even in 10 Years.
Thanks for your help Martin, I appreciate it
I don't feel like it really needs to be cut back at all.
It does have it's own character as it is. I like it.
The only thing that does annoy me is this eye shape bend ^^
Normally I am more the guy who comments like : hack it back !
I agree, the work isn’t finished with those branches. Thanks for your thoughts 🙏
When does a pre bonsai became bonsai? Love the hornbeam. Great demo
I have no idea, I watched a vid shortly before making this one that made unsure, so played it safe 😅
What do you think about tropical bonsai?
Personally I would air layer the top and make another bonsai from that. However if you decide not to I would reduce the number of branches at your apex this will stop the bulge that is forming.
Either way you have an amazing tree on your hands 👍
Thanks Shane, appreciate the wisdom and kind words 🤘
That was the only thing that bothered me: to many branches at the top.
Martin Tijdgat I agree, but I’m still torn between making the most of what the tree has vs taking more drastic measures and playing the long game...
If you choose to chop then you should consider reducing the height of the second trunk. Both trunks at the same height will make it hard for your eyes won't know which trunk to take as you journey up the tree.
Absolutely, good point, thanks Michael
I don't think thats too tall, but those branches on top canopy look too thick for me. Maybe you can chop it there and pull up the remaining branch with heavy wire (those two are too thick for upper part but ideal to be a new leader). The best part is buds will explode after chop, espcialy around the scar. Use then as new branch with good proportion. But still im happy to see as it is. Thats a beautiful one :).
Thanks Iqbal, appreciate your thoughts
Just got a semi Bonsai Horn Beam. The middle of the seem is rather empty without much branches. I want to thread graft it at least by 3 or 4 braches . Starting in about a month from now
What do you think my friend ?
Thread grafting is best done when the tree does not have leaves, so assuming it is almost spring for you also, now is the ideal time!
Very nice! New subscriber here. Was this tree devolped as a seedling or did you collect it?
Thanks for the sub! I purchased this tree as a fairly developed tree that was in poor health. It was in bad soil and had very poor root system. I repotted it in Spring 2019 and allowed it to grow all season. I believe it was grown from nursery stock, almost certainly wasn’t collected. Thanks, Darren
I'm thinking u should air layering that longer trunk because it will give u more taper and it looks like there's almost a knot forming at the top.
Thanks very much for your thoughts James, appreciate it 🙏
@@grobonsai Very nice. Does the "slingshot" crotch bother you? Perhaps, heavy wiring (2/0 wire ?) of one of the trunks, on a ten-year plan, would decrease the symmetry?
@John Otter It does bother me at times. Sometimes I accept and love the tree as it is, ‘faults’ and all. Other days I either want to take a saw to it or sell the tree... 🙂
@@grobonsai At the end of the video, you pondered drastic pruning of the subtrunk. Do you have Naka's books?
@John Otter no I don’t unfortunately - was there something I should look up?
Very good
Thanks for watching 🙏
Dont chop it. It is a beauty as it is. Like the twin trunk! There are plenty single trunks out there in hedges and as a bonsai. Keep it as it is and build more ramification on the lower branches. 😉
Thank you my friend
How old do you think it is? Cutting the top off isn't the worst idea, there is alot going on up there, maybe try thinning it out and see how that goes. And if you decide on taking the 2nd trunk down, defo airlayer it!!
I’m not sure on the age Ian, I should ask the previous owner. Thanks my friend 🙏 I almost certainly don’t have the guts to do anything very drastic, but thought I’d throw it out there as an option 🤷♂️😀
@@grobonsai Its clearly had time and effor go in to it, you cant just hack off bits without thinking about it and havin a plan as such. But its good to ask the questions, that's how a plan will form and the right choice will be made
Totally agree mate
bonjour
trunk line 17:44
;)
Very nice but don't remove any branch, they are looking good.
Thank you sir 🙏
I don't think you should prune the top to a lower level. From the camera position it looks perfect as a round decidieus fulgrown tree.
Thank you Martin
No chop¡! I'm psychic!,!
I was thinking the 2 lower branches on the right could be cut off. The ones you wired. Would look a bit different and not so traditional.
Oh I hadn’t thought about that hmm that’s intriguing 🤯
I think you should Not chop the apex . The tree is perfekt in shape ! I think
No chop please. It is beautiful now.
Don't chop..
Thanks Mark 🙏 There’s a strong consensus on this one
no
Thanks 🙏