Yugioh needs an extra extra deck change my mind. How will the extra extra deck work it can be spells traps or any monster and if you opponent summons more than 4 cards then you can lay one card from it and it's effects canot be negated but is banished the next turn if it's a flood gate, and they don't go back into the extra extra deck after each game. 15 cards game 2 less cards game 3 less cards
I think lots of the issues with cards can be fixed with the Claus you can't attack directly this would make a lot of dumb wipes the board cards like access code fairer. Also the SP:Little knight makes going 2nd better which is good for the game the fact it is good going 1st as well is also a credit for it’s inclusion in the extra deck. They could also make that lower tier decks should getting better boss monsters and extra deck monster should be better going 2nd rather than 1st.
Goyo Guardian and Black Rose are board breaker staple/toolbox, which makes them a lot more conditional as different board requires different answer And depending on what format we're talking about, Stardust also very rarely hits the board turn 1 (turboing it is often just not a good play). Games being slower also makes monsters in your main deck shine more, as you can have Gale clapping Stardust instead of Baronne vs Zeus round 245934 A different topic but omnis are also very obnoxious as you can't outplay it; to beat it you always go neg as theres no single card in your main deck that outs Baronne
Yea they need to have generic monsters to sell the set especilly as you often only need 1 so if everyone needs 1 that's bigger than only the players playing x deck need 1 or maybe 2. You could maybe argue that the boss monsters for low tier decks need to be stronger @@DeathScorpian
I've said this for years now: Konami made deliberate decisions when they gave so many of these super bosses generic materials. There's no justifiable reason why Access code doesn't require cyberse material, there's no reason why Baronne shouldn't require Fluer Synchron.
my biggest gripe with generic extra deck cards is they have pretty much turned any synchro combo deck (Mannadium and Superheavy, etc) into the same endboards of say Dis Pater, Borrelload, Baronne, and Appalousa. it takes the soul out of the archetypes and just makes the main deck a different toolbox to GET to those monsters. plus it turns duels into such non-games from the amount of negates there are.
Yeah but if they had given Superheavy Samurai, Manadome or even Snake-Eyes real pay-offs in the ED the problem wouldn't have been this bad. It is necessary for these kind of decks that generic pay-offs exist otherwise they would do nothing going first. I think it is so strange that Konami still sometimes designs decks that have no in-archetype interruptions they can build towards. If they would give decks more in-archetype boss monsters they could even give these decks harsher ED-restrictions (if even necessary since decks tend to prefer going for their own bosses) and it wouldn't matter that much. Even decks that get in-archetype interruptions often only get 1-2 so then they need other generic stuff to end on in addition to their in-archetype interruptions if they have the capability to get the material on field otherwise all of the monsters they are able to summon would be useless.
As a Mannadium player, I have to say, I do really wish I could use Prime-heart in any reasonable capacity. Unfortunately it just doesn't contribute to much of an endboard, and it sucks that they made the deck just...not really have any in-archetype strength for an endboard. At the very least, the deck uses quite a bit of extra-deck monsters specific to the Broken Worlds archetypes. Trisukta and Visas Amarita exist in decklists (though only as a plan b scenario from my experience), and Light-heart and Astroloud are also rather important combo pieces for the deck. But that's just it; they're combo pieces, not the endboard. Sure Astroloud has removal on summon, but if you're going first, you're not using that effect if at all. So in the end, you just have to turn to the generic boss monsters in order to give yourself a fighting chance to win when it's your opponent's turn. It's definitely not the best, but if I want to play the deck, there's hardly any other option since inherently, most of the extra deck's inherent bosses just aren't that great to end on.
@@kurapi2314 Unfortunately you'd have to discard the entire last 5 or so years of yugioh to fix this problem. So we're stuck with what we've got (excepting fan-made formats), cos if you make a new deck like you said, it would just lose to the past 5 years of decks. It definitely is getting too much recently though; SHS, Mannadium etc are too combo heavy and SHS especially is too resilient and consistent, and on the other hand Tear, Branded can just feel unfair due to their insane recursion.
@@kurapi2314 Every since around POTE this has become a lot better though. Games usually don't come down to "let's just try to spit out as much as possible turn 1 so they can't play" but more into a "I will outresource you" type of situation. Which is good. Yes, there are still decks like Mannadium but they aren't even doing that well for a good reason. We're in a midrange format for a while now ever since enablers like HalqDon and Verte etc. were banned. Baronne is still kind of dumb.
On top of the Extra Deck end board taking the soul out of the archetype don't forget said archetype (depending of course) is also running anywhere between 3-12 hand traps. Whenever you see people post "Pure decklists" you'll always see the top comment saying "Pure? I see 9 of said archetype and 12 hand traps😂"
Generic extra deck cards have been the issue. Spot removal and omni negates should really be regulated to in archetype boss monsters or cards. The extra deck generic cards should really just be utility cards that help you get out of certain scenarios.
This is the exact mindset I try carrying into Master Duel ranked and it bites me so hard. I wish we all gravitated toward making an archetype or strategy work within itself moreso than ending on the exact same 8-10 end boards. It gets boring and tiring facing the exact same 3 decks when all I wanna do is play my funny little Junk/Synchron deck without having to sprinkle the exact same other extra deck monsters everyone ELSE is using. I guess it’s a personal issue since I could just adapt and shut up if I want to keep up with the game but I got into Yu-Gi-Oh! because of how interesting and varied a lot of the deck building seemed, it feels kinda soulless now since I keep running into the same omni-negates and such. This problem even kinda extends to hand traps and other things of the sort but that’s another complaint for another day, thank you for putting this gripe into words, I haven’t been able to properly explain why modern YGO makes me so sad.
Generic extra deck monsters have been a problem for years. Most strategies feel very similar because they churn out the same end boards. Some examples •Make multiple negates with Baronne + Apollusa with an occasional Borreload Savage •Use Accesscode to clear Boards •Cram Zeus in everything that Xyz summons •S:P & Ty-Phon in literally every extra deck that has room. I’m of the opinion that extra deck cards should either be specific to the strategy, require certain materials to make them less generic, or if they are generic; they need to have an inherent flaw (like not having a strong effect or be easily beaten over if they have a strong effect for example)
I remember when I first played Witchcrafters in Master Duel mixed with some other spellcaster archetype and I closed out a decent number of games with... neither of those, because I could often link into Accesscode Talker and I just finished them with that
@@pixeldemon3267I think that you need a card like fenrir or diabellstar in order to beat over s:p. Activating any effects to add an additional body can lead to it temporarily banish one of your cards along with a monster they have on field. Not to mention that you will often have other disruptions to contend with
It makes the meta even more agonizing in online play, because you're tied to a screen (as opposed to RL where you at least have the texture of human interaction) and have to stay present if you have even a single negate waiting, b/c most simulators are automated and will ask you for every effect unless you disable it, which is another hazard entirely. When it's the same stuff keeping you it drains all the fun out.
Your comment made me feel compelled to comment because I've said exactly this (and been laughed out of the game for it) since literally when Synchros were introduced. Back in the GX era, Archetypes played fundamentally differently from one another and usually had, if not entirely unique mechanics dedicated just to them (like Arcana Force, Cloudian, or Crystal Beasts), then at least focused on specific strengths that guided you to play in one way over another (Zombies were weak in battle but could come back from the graveyard more easily, Warriors had effects that mostly triggered via battle, Fairies focusing on Life Gain effects, Fire cards focusing on Burn damage, etc). Once Synchros hit, Archetypes stopped having their own playstyles and instead just became different flavors of engines to spam extra deck monsters. It didn't matter any more if you were playing Zombies or Six Sams or Plants or Heroes, everyone's field ended up with Stardust Dragon, Black Rose Dragon, and Goyo Guardian as the win con. Blackwings and Glad Beasts were the only reprieve because at least they included their own monsters in with the generic extra deck spam.
Or under Neo Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon and Galaxy-Eyes Cipher Dragon, or with the current DL raid event: Number 107. I have a decent Blue-Eyes focused deck that includes a few other great ones, like the Odd-Eyes set (Odd-Eyes Advance Dragon may be my #1 favorite) and Mardark, all being better together. It includes the Galaxy-Eyes/Photon XYZ too as a way to both open up the board and get more value. It can be a fun flex.
@@residentgrey literally no, losing can be fun, that’s the point of not being a sore loser, actually seeing the fun and sportsmanship beyond the basic concepts of winning and losing
@@gabrieldevoogel6225 I have been working at it for a couple years and it is still affecting me strongly most days. Years of depression and pain can do a number on someone.
I hate how archetypal boss monsters, like the new level 12 Superheavy Synchro, are so weak compared to the generic stuff too. Imagine if it was like a level 12 Barrone, but it required Superheavy monsters to summon
It isn't another Barone, it's not generic so you will only see it in it's deck. The problem with Barone is that it's literally everywhere and you have no reason to summon that level 12 Superheavy card because Barone already exists and it's easier to get out. @@spncrgrn
On the other side of the coin, you have cases like Barrone de Fleur, where its meant to be part of an archetype/series of cards but is made generic meaning the rest of its cards don't see play (Barrone is part of an archetype that partially revolves around Fleur Synchron... why does it not require Fleur Synchron as material like the other Synchro monster of its archetype).
@KoraFTP The Nintendo Switchlite is a cool video game console that can easily be converted to cash. The other is just sheets of useless paper. Only a small group of people understand these cards' value.
This is the reason why I think Sky Striker and branded are so beloved by many, most of the extra deck is in theme of the archetype except some generics here and there.
Oh yeah? Do even people cared about Archtype locking itself? Like Branded? Dragonlink? or even the likes of Ghoti or Beetrooper?? People hate generic ED when it's the only saving grace of the game. If an archtype is locked,. it will be forgotten forever once the game moves forward the new thing.
@@naknampucha5236 instead decks that can spit out large numbers of their own arctypal extra deck but can't shit out the almost always stronger generics get forgotten instead while decks that just shit out the same shit as every other deck until they get replaced by the next deck that does it faster and better comes around
@@kinryuten the issue is they would have to be a big step more powerful and easy to summon to even begin to justify their place in the ED over the generics
Your favorite archetype is going to recieve support on the form of a new boss monster:😄 BUT it's just a generic omninegate that it does nothing with the OG strategy or theme and is going to be abused by every other deck: 💀 poor DPE, Baronne and others
Dpe was more an issue of verte. For hero it actually bolsters the going first potential and grind ability. Barrone has no actual dedicated deck outside of like 3 other cards which isn't really enough to say it's a deck
Generic Extra Deck monsters are such a problem. They make so every deck becomes homogenous and if they're stronger than the archetypal options (the ones that usually restrict you) they completelly murder how unique some decks can be.
It's also a restraint on design space - they can't make archetype Extra Deck monsters WEAKER than the generics because they'll never see the light of day, but they can't make them STRONGER because then you have even more blatant BUY THE NEW STUFF!! and have started to approach to Tier 0
It's also a restraint on design space - they can't make archetype Extra Deck monsters WEAKER than the generics because they'll never see the light of day, but they can't make them STRONGER because then you have even more blatant BUY THE NEW STUFF!! and have started to approach to Tier 0
It's also a restraint on design space - they can't make archetype Extra Deck monsters WEAKER than the generics because they'll never see the light of day, but they can't make them STRONGER because then you have even more blatant BUY THE NEW STUFF!! and have started to approach to Tier 0
Exactly. Generic Extra Decks IMO should be kept to utility stuff (the Knightmare example is perfect imo, it's a three card commitment to a pop, what most archetypes can do cheaper.) Also friend you accidentally commented like thrice, in case you wanna clear up.@@WavemasterAshi
@@WavemasterAshiIf an archtype is weak,. it will be forgotten forever,. do even people care about the Archtype itself when it got ruined into irrelevancy? Do people play pure invoked or shaddol? It's nepotism when you say you want sticking to archtype locking when none of damn players stayed to play Inzektors or Zoodiacs on the current sets. It's very un-progressive when generic ED connects all the best possible card design without completely hindering the creativity for old cards to have an opportunity itself.
First time seeing Libromancers in MD was someone called letmecook, proceeded to make DPE and set scythe...it was like having exotic ingredients being used to make a hamburger.
That's not a good simile because such a hamburger would still taste special, the incredients give flavour to the whole. DPE and Scythe, however, are always the same, regardless of what combo it was exactly that brought them out.
i like a lot of shitty archetypes (libromancer included) and yup, their most optimal endboard is usually just the same as every other better deck but with a lot more effort and worse recursion or hand advantage. not to mention way more fragile combo lines.
The complete singularity in strategies around generic extra deck monsters is what drove me away from the game. There are archetypes which utilize the extra deck (like my sweet baby HEROS and Cyber Dragon). You said it perfectly. These high value, generic cards takeaway the soul of those archetypes. Generic should always lose to highly specific cards. But Yu-Gi-Oh has jumped the shark so hard at this point i dont think it can be tamed.
The ritual event we had a couple of weeks ago was such a breath of fresh air not having to play/vs 99% of the extra deck. Simplified deck building. Really enjoyable event.
Branded is probably the best example of making a deck pretty unique when it comes down to the extra deck. Almost all of it's extra deck has in archtype monsters, the only generic ones are either used for Superpoly or whn you normal summon Albaz.
Yeah, who knew summoning monsters with good effects from the ED for basically free was a bad thing that practically stifles the game and makes every deck you see feel same-y or nonoptimal if you don't run it?
I agree fully. I feel there are a lot of extra deck card that just end up being invasive and make decks way too similar. What’s the point in deck building a different archetype if you’re just going to build the same board.
As the anime and manga taught us all: there are dualists that dual for the sake of themselves and victory (same end board, seven negates plus recycling) and there are dualists who duel because it brings them closer to other people and it is fun (using outdated archetypes or coming up with truly wacky strategies)
Regarding Baronne de Fleur, having it require a Wind Warrior as material would be weird because then you wouldn't be able to use Sorciere de Fleur or Sauge de Fleur as the non-tuner. Having it require Fleur Synchron as the tuner would be somewhat better.
100% Agree. Especially since two other cards from the set can make cards treated as Fleur Synchron. Noble Knight's Spearholder can make a LV8 or lower monster treated as Fleur Synchron as well as turning it into a tuner, and Necro Synchron turns itself into it while on the field or in the GY.
Devil's Advocate: Powerful generic extra deck choices are good since they allow for brewing outside of the "cookie cutter" archetypes that are most common. However, those choices should be good as utility pieces, not ridiculous boss monsters. This would be useful if utility cards were viable in Current Year, but...
This is one of the biggest complaints I've noticed with older players is that in the olden days there were less specific archetypes (i.e. you had a fiend deck, dino deck, water deck, etc) as opposed to today you would have a Branded deck or Traptrix or Tearlaments. It allows for less broad spectrum synergy within the YGO card pool. I feel like complaints for generic extra deck monsters are symptoms of a larger issue.
@@vxicepickxvha I've already Mastered cramming 3 archetypes into one deck. 47 cards. Super consistent. Nice juicy ritual pile with a sword soul chixiao searching a blackout as part of the endboard
Too far though and the cookie cutter template you're using is just one that starts with its generic boss monsters. There's a balance to be struck, and there's a lot more space for diversity and brewing in the main deck.
@@letsgostupid Those generic archtypes have the advantage of being able to branch out. While they may not be as strong as a narrow archtype, you can go into Plan B, C or D rather easily.
Remember when almost every Extra Deck list included the likes of Iron Chain Dragon, Black Rose, Trishula, Brionac, Hyper Librarian, Scrap Dragon, Stardust, and Naturia Beast? Or Exciton Knight, Daigusto Emeral, Lavalval Chain, Number 101 and Gem-Knight Pearl? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
a lot of those cards were ignition effects tho and rarely negates or anything. quick effects were so rare especially without a cost so thats probs what makes todays game seem worse.
Pearl is now even in one of the NPC decks in Duel Links, and effectively so! I even use it in some decks as an alt to #70 or Dark Rebellion XYZ Dragon (but they defo get added too, Pearl is a great add to my Jim Cook/Fossil deck). There are plenty of others that are now seen well outside their archetype to this day. It would be great if this were catalogued better, and in all formats. We primarily have YCS and similar event stats instead of the greater picture. So much experimentation is lost to time and, well, loss.
Generic extra deck monsters should inherently be MUCH weaker than archetypal extra deck monsters. It’s so annoying and disappointing seeing an archetypal boss be thrown away because it’s made to be much weaker for zero reason compared to something like baronne
I feel you. I'm playing Speedroid, which has a combo that can Accel Synchro the level 10 Crystal Clear Wing Synchro Dragon, but making Barrone just makes more sense... At least it's a wind
@@janithernest3929You don't need more with Speedroids. We even have far less on Duel Links and that is one of the most complete in that format, and it still slaps. The synchros were a great addition! We get a better alternative to Red Rose Dragon and more!
@@janithernest3929There IS something lacking in the main deck to my eyes though...we did not get great pendulum cards for the archetype. They work but could we have better? I think so.
I feel another way to go about the generic extra deck issue is that they can keep things generic, but add a line where it says “if made with x materials”. Like if Baronne was made wind monsters or a Fleur it has the effect that it has now. But if made with generic materials it’s effect gets nerfed with a cost or a draw back. Or with Savage, if it doesn’t use a rocket maybe it only gains attack or only gets one negate, but it doesn’t get both. Essentially restricting you from unlocking the cards full potential outside of the intended deck, but still allowing you to use it to some extent.
I think Galaxy-Eyes has pretty much an extra deck which is all of it's own Boss Monsters, sure example cards like 90 and 38 are generic but Lord has beneficial effects with it's home archetype, being immune to destruction while having a Photon attached and pops a card if it negates something if it has a Galaxy attached. And also searches a in archetype card. The only generic Extra Deck boss monsters it has is S:P and maybe Zeus while everything else is in home.
i fucking love galaxy eyes. its always been my favorite deck(and favorite card in general) and as someone who almsot always uses it the only generic extra deck card i use is zeus and even then i rarely ever use him(i just never need to) galaxy eyes for me is the only deck i genuinely enjoy using i just wish generic extra deck monster didn't exist
nothing is more fun then using decks that either use rarely used generic material extra deck monsters orr using a deck that has no real spaces for generics and yet still thriving
I feel like this has been an issue since Synchros became a thing. It's almost like they saw how god awful fusion monsters were and over-compensated. At least back when the game wasn't purely archetype based, it kind of made sense. Black Rose Dragon not needing a plant, stuff like that, that was fine enough back in the day, but it just never evolved since then. Half the time, unless your deck as an explosive archetype-specific boss monster, it doesn't matter what deck you play because you still end up trying to bring out the same boss monsters. It's boring.
Generic extra deck monsters should've stayed on the level of things like Tornado Dragon. Practical effect, easy to make, but pretty easy to punch over and definitely not the kind of thing you build a whole deck with the specific intention of turboing out.
I remember when i started playing. Didnt go to locals yet and only played with a friend. He had been playing for years, but also didnt go to locals and it was fun at first. But two things started to bother me. 1. He only played to win and chose tech cards just to outplay me specifically. I had like 2 or 3 decks, all of them pretty weak cause it was mostly structure deck only. I mean, he wasnt running meta staples or anything. Still, kinda sucked. 2. (And this is why i started typing). I only had 3 decks but my boards were pretty different in many games. Sure, cyber strike had a main line combo at least i repeated a lot, but there was variety. Sure, that also happened because the decks were kinda weak and inconsistent, but also because i wanted my decks to feel different. Meanwhile his decks were also really cool. Just one thing though. He literally had the same board all the time. He played a completely different strategy just to have the same monsters and it was so weird to me. Why even own multiple decks?
While I realize this is almost as impossible to do as just "Errata all the cards", I really think Konami is squandering a powerful resource with Master Duel. One of the things I've been trying to say for ages and I still hope it will catch on some day, is if Konami didn't just have a banlist but also a choice restrict. In the physical TCG, I can see how that would be a nightmare to have people keep track of things. However, the same can't be said for Master Duel. Like rather than ban a card that got abused by some rando pile of cards because of degenerate combos that make the archetype its from suffer...just put in you can have card A in your deck or Card B in your deck, but not both. Look what happens! Suddenly the banlist can get way smaller and the rogue decks/weaker archetypes that happen to have one busted card don't get harmed anymore. Yes, some things would have to stay banned, but I still think choice restriction is the way to go, especially if you are having the game be digital and it can just auto regulate the decks for people.
I really, REALLY feel that take. Nowadays it's a lot faster to point out the decks using their deck-specific boss monsters compared to doing the opposite (Off the top of my head it's really just HERO, Branded, Labrynth and Floowandereeze that I see on a regular basis). I especially wish we'd get good, usable pendulum boss monsters, as you're really stuck using the generic stuff on that front (except Vortex Dragon I suppose). As a complete aside I remember when Vaylantz came out in the TCG and their boss monster was just kind of bad as its effect was not quite flexible enough and it was really rough to summon alongside other things and it made the deck feel a lot more disappointing than it was realistically.
Speaking of in-archetype boss monster, did you know that you cannot target Mannadium Prime-Heart with card effects when it was sychro summoned with "Mannadium" tuners as material?
A lot of this comes down to either non--generic ED monsters requiring generic or easily accessible materials that make playing them outside of their archetype more useful than within it, or completely generic cards just having stronger effects than whatever requires specific archetype to run. Synchros are often guilty of this because not a whole lot of them require specific materials, so this issue has been around for as long as the mid to late 2000s with things like Goyo Guardian(before it got an Earth Tuner requirement to fit in with the rest of its archetype) and the Ice Barrier Dragons(which wound up forcing an errata on Brionac to attempt its effect all in one go each turn instead of 1 by 1). Earth decks will make a beeline to the Naturia Synchros to floodgate out certain decks from the game, so while not entirely generic they get used a lot for specific niches, it's a lot like Promethean Fire Princess adds extra recursion and disruption to Fire heavy decks, but is even easier to get to so it doesn't make those decks worse for running it, and I think that's fine(more fine than Naturia Synchros turning tons of Earth decks to floodgate Turbo at least). When you see something like Accesscode Talker require only "2+ Effect Monsters" instead of having Cyberse specific requirements/locks like many of the other Code Talkers, you know Konami is deliberately pushing a card to be an option in every deck that has space to run it. Firewall Dragon didn't even have THAT as a restriction(and still only has "2+ Monsters" as a requirement so Scapegoat can technically make it), and only got banned because of FTK abuse, and THEN got its errata to force it to be Cyberse focused specifically(and is STILL a strong card in decks like @Ignister that was designed as a sidegrade to Code Talkers for lore reasons).
5Ds-era Synchros have to be cut a bit of slack because 5Ds-era archetypes were for the most part pretty wank. Half the reason you were running Goyo and Brionac was because your archetype's own synchros were often not worth the effort put into summoning them. The difference now is that in-archetype options are great and well-worth their materials, but the generic bosses are even more overpowered.
@@yurisei6732The key example of this is Blackwing. Blackwing use both their own Syncro and generic ones because they are on par in terms of power levels; sometimes it is better to summon their own Syncros than generic, specially since their hand oftentimes don't align with the level 6.
well i would just say to this: implement a extra deck banlist with the duel link banlist rules. just put tons of the generic cards on limit 2-3 and it makes extradecks more unique
I wasn't a fan of Duel Links' style of banlist when I first encountered it, but I've come to appreciate how it can positively affect certain decks balance-wise. I think having a mix of the current style and the Duel Links style banlists would help fix a number of problems. Like maybe calling ones with the current style "Soft Limited" and the Duel Links style "Hard Limited".
@@pnyhmsmx shrinking it to 10 slots would probably just make people ditch deck-specific extra deck cards altogether in favor of the splashable staples.
Why go pure anyway? That kinda sucks. I see so much that can be added alongside that fits the theme while adding great tech. We have so many options in some cases we can go out of our way to stay in that theme while having a competitive deck. They gave us plenty of room to flex.
i said this since long time, Konami can't think logical, instead of ban or errata Verte Anaconda they banned Dragoon, they retired a good support to Dark Magician and Red eyes because they don't want Verte Anaconda to go.... they are so stupid, people that make the cards don't even play the games so it was expected
Ban them all or errata them, then make new generic boss monsters more balanced, this is essential to keep the game alive. I remember when an extra deck was not mandatory to be relevant. I think the generic-ness of these powerful boss monsters is also a sales ploy to get everyone trying to pull it because if you don't have it, you're behind.
u play the game already for 20 years? because the extra was very relevant in the 2004/2003 format and only before that it wasnt, but it was ungabunga times, so...
@N1GhtKnIGht What I meant was that not everyone had to run an extra deck to play, let alone playing the same cards as everyone else in that extra deck. Unga bunga times were great btw.
@@l3oogle la djinn format was boring af and most sets after people all just played beater and the power 5 yeah fun format. it just got better around lon/mfc/dcr and there was the extradeck very importent
@@l3oogle oh yeah, this era, were u actually played ed monsters from other decks, just in case u play against these decks :x would be superpoly/reaper format now, nothing changed, just that u see more tops. btw anime was fun to watch but nothing like the game actually was, at the time mekklords reached the anime, there were the second most ftk's of all time
it's because Konami thought it would go the other way around. the Fleur deck sucks, so they thought by making Baronne generic, then people would only play it in Fleur, but run generic tuner support to make it. they do that with every generic ED monsters, it's just that players don't play the game the way Konami wants them to.
Konami is too stupid to realise that a powerful boss monster with no summoning restrictions will get splashed into every other archetype that doesn't suck balls
@@z1u512 that's also true. Konami is too dumb to realize how they handle the anime with deck designs doesn't translates to how people play the card game if they want to win in a bloated card pool.
This is kind of why i like the monthly events in Master Duel, cause they usually ban a good amount of those extra deck cards everyone plays and allows for more fun deck builds and duels.
You know what Baronne's requirements should have been? _1 Tuner Synchro Monster + "Chevalier de Fleur"_ This would have made it a great parallel to Shooting Star Dragon.
And with material requirements like those, you could afford to make Baronne much more powerful without making it ban worthy since only certain decks would be able to run it. For example, you could make its omni-negate a soft once per turn instead of "once while face-up on the field", while still being able to pop a card every turn.
But then you wouldn't be able to summon it with centaur mina or the sorcerers. A more effective solution would be to make it require fleur synchron specifically since all of the deck's tuners have effects that let them sub for it. And few decks would want to run them or fleur.
As someone who prefers the extra deck as a toolbox. I approve. Unless my boss monster is an extra deck monster. I prefer to focus only on the main deck.
Ok so I think you skipped over the issue of WHY the extra deck is a problem. Primarily, the extra deck is kinda like having 15 additional cards in your hand that say "If you meet certain requirements (including generic ones), you can X (usually tribute monsters) to special summon this card." So of course games are gonna be the same when 15/20 of your starting hand is the same cards. Magic semi-recently had a group of cards that all did something very similar with a mechanic called "Companion". A chunk of those cards ended up being banned in various formats, and there was even a rulings change that instead of paying (cost) to play the card, you first had to pay (3) to put it in your hand.
Generic monsters being strong has never been the issue. It has always been the fact that many archetype locked bosses are just bad. Why do all Synchro decks make Baronne? It's not because Baronne is too strong, it's because the other bosses are too weak. What we need is for Synchro archetypes to get actual competitive non-generic boss monsters. This of course applies to all of the other summoning methods too.
I think if we want generics to be less prevelant, rather than trying to ban them or nerf them outright (minus some exceptions though), it'd be better to raise the power ceiling for in-archetype cards/boss monsters for all types of decks. A lot of especially rogue or formerly rogue decks turn to generics when they can because they just don't have powerful enough cards in their own archetype to stay competitive. Imo, if we want to limit powerful generics, we should improve upon non-generics so people don't feel obligated to make a cookie cutter endboard.
Idk about that. I agree that they essentially need those generic cards in order to raise the power if their decks but raising the power of the in archetype cards/boss monsters would require restrictions so that they do not have access to the generic extra deck monsters as well.
Generic boss monsters they say, but i cannot even use those monsters on Marincess deck XD Personally one disheartening thing from extra deck boss monsters is when some decks can freely fill up extra deck with those monsters because 'there is no summoning restriction', meanwhile some other decks cannot benefit from generic boss monsters because they're locked into certain type/attrib/summoning mechanic. Everyone plays S.P. Little Knight on their ED, and it sucks for those who cannot play the card because of summoning restriction.
I do appreciate that generic Extra Deck cards help fix gaps in a deck's own capabilities, stop it being crippled against certain strategies. And like you said it can also help empower lower tier decks to still compete even if their own raw power is lower. That said...yeah the ones that currently exist are a little too good, I agree. I actually kind of like Apollousa's design relative to many of them; since her negate doesn't destroy there are some cards she's pretty ineffective against and because her attack gets so low she's pretty easy to beat in battle. She's still extremely strong but has a lot of limits. Whereas a card like Baronne is just always good and hard to out. But even there it's like, if you have 4 random materials left you might as well make Apo, there's rarely another real choice. I kind of wish they would design more unorthodox effects on generic bosses. Shoutout to Icejade Gymir Aegirine: her effect is really strong but has unusual templating, and she's nearly generic but has just one requirement (the Water tuner) so a lot of decks can use her but it requires a little planning to do so. I want more Extra Deck cards like that, where they're generic within a certain type or attribute or something. Rikka like you mentioned is perfect that way, they get to use all kinds of cool monsters that only work for Plants even though they aren't specifically Rikkas. Great video as always!
I do the same too. In my destiny board deck I use cards that help putting fiends in the graveyard as quickly as possible so I can bring out dark Necrofear with no problem early game
Gymir is such a good card. She's what a good boss monster should be. Not too generic, not difficult to make, and has good effects. She's come in clutch many times
Most generic extra deck monsters nowadays are extra interruptions or card advantage/more summon generators. I think is ok to have generic extra deck monsters if they're used just as silver bullets. Like for example the knightmares. They're generic but their effects are just pop a monster or spell/trap. Nothing too crazy but could be game changers in some situations.
Agree 1000% So upset to always see that *blank* deck is just an engine for the same generic Extra Deck monsters. They should retire these monsters by giving them specific materials, like making Barone require plant or warrior tuner, or maybe even making a retrained "Fleur" archetype and make her materials even more specific, for example.
I've had several non-yugioh players which have shared with me the view that all modern yugioh cards just to do the same thing. Look at a lot of modern end boards, they have a point.
Creating strong generic cards limits what thematic decks can do. Because the generics are too powerful, the themed support is either overpowered which leads to bans, lacks the versatility, or is underpowered to the point of not being playable. Tearlaments were practically banned on release despite being one of the few recent decks to release with little generic support. Then again, it didn't require generics because it was an overpowered mechanic.
I feel Underworld Goddess is a good generic extra-deck monsters and gives decks an out for tricky Towers monsters. It does have cost being link-5 and it also does not win the game on it's own like Acccesscode can.
I really hate how every Extra Deck just summons the same handful of generic monsters. Part of it is because most of those are floodgate/negates, which kill any enjoyment in the game, but also it’s just kinda boring. I miss when you’d have big main deck boss monsters, or in-archetype extra deck boss monsters that were actually worth keeping on board as opposed to some generic synchro or link monster Even outside of meta decks it’s come to this. When I play Melffy it always devolves into “how fast can I pump out a zeus or avramax or savage” and all the actual Melffy cards feel more like support than the actual deck. It’s just kinda lame
I'm happy to say that I play a couple of archetypes that don't use the extra deck at all, Lair of Darkness and Mikanko. I like not relying on extra deck summons to fight back. It's like the perfect combination of old school Yu-Gi-Oh with just your standard deck to use and modern power to keep up with the game (for the most part). I also means the Pot cards that discard extra deck cards are basically free draws/perfect bait for that Ash you know is in the opponent's hand. Non-extra deck archetypes have their perks, and it's fun to play differently from most other players.
I love Lair of Darkness! I do however run 3 cards in the ED, 2 Dharcs and 1 Beat Cop, both links. I very rarely use them, they’re only included cuz they go along with the LoD strategy and useful for certain situations
@@natedog8281 I've rarely ever ended up using Beat Cop. Mostly I've been letting the Ladies of Lament do the heavy lifting, with Lilith tributing anything dumb enough to go up against her, and Loris resetting all my traps for continued Virus and Magic Cylinder torture. One of my proudest moments with Lair was when I made someone surrender with just the field spell, Loris, and Grinning Grave Virus. The field spell let me use their monster for Grinning Grave, and Loris reset it back onto the field, thus making an endless cycle they couldn't break haha
Totally agree on this, and have for a long time. I don't mind strong boss monsters, but if the boss monster is strong, it can't be accessible to every deck, because then it's just going to outperform most decks in-archetype boss. I don't mind generic cards either, but if the monster is generic, it can't be super strong, because otherwise the same problem. if the card is JUST strong but not super generic, then it's only a tool for particular decks, or even just one deck. If a card is JUST generic but not super strong, then it can be played widely, but it doesn't warp the entire meta around it.
I've been tired of generic extra deck monsters for the better part of a decade. They should either be not generic or weak in terms of ways to get rid of them.
Monsters where they got this right are: Dingirsu who isn't broken unless he's in his own archetype which can cycle him and use him to cycle other Orcust monsters as the lynch pin of the engine (plus that additional summon mechanic with an Orcust Link is cool); Galaxy-Eyes Photon Lord is a generic Rank 8 monster effect negate, but you get additional effects depending on how you manipulate the materials with Photon and Galaxy monsters; Borrelend is a generic multi-attacker with big attack points, but has an interruption-extending effect that requires Rokkets in grave. I'm fine with generic Extra Deck boss monsters, but I prefer when you get a big benefit for playing them in their own archetype as intended. A bad example is Dark Matter Dragon. Galaxy decks, especially now with the LIGHT locks, didn't need the card. But generic dragon decks loved it.
So true, I think a format where you play 'pure' decks and I mean PURE are way more fun and go beyond turn 2. I honestly think most decks have built in nerfs. The Mannadium boss monster isn't a towers omni negate (also the card looks awesome). The main Fire Kings (in archetype) strategy is just a once per turn board wipe (with some follow up) yet that deck is nearly tier 0. Pure deck builds allow both players to actually play the game.
I totally agree....things like S:P and Accesscode Talker kind of take the spotlight away from archetype boss monsters. They need to make extra deck monsters less generic and more archetype specific. Also, this is probably a very unpopular take, but I really miss Normal monsters being good :P It's probably just nostalgia but I miss playing my old DM deck with a bunch of Gemini Elves and Luster Dragons XD
Accesscode is a major offender for this exact reason! On the other hand, there are tons of deck archetypes that dont accomplish much on their end boards other than spamming a bunch of mons. All these decks would lack a great finisher/endboard if it wasnt for Appolousa/Accescode/Chaos Angel/Borreload Savage/Baronne
This has been a major complaint of mine since I got back into the game 4 years ago. I found that nearly everyone's end board was exactly the same. The generic extra deck monsters, for the most part, are just better than the archetype specific extra deck monsters which doesn't make any sense to me.
Seeing a deck end of baronne, dweller and appo is so tired and boring, i like when decks actually have their own boss monsters that only they can use. I really like evolzar lars for instance because it's technically generic but it gets waaaay more value in it's home deck
I think the annoying part is that archetype bosses are usually kinda bad. Then you have my dear chaos angel whose generic even though its the boss for chaos synchro. It didn't need to be so generic. Chaos cards might be inherently semi generic but the synchro's like chaos ruler and especially chaos angel did not need to be generic. They are chaos cards.
But Chaos _is_ inherently generic, Light and Dark are two out of only six available attributes (and the two with the best cards among them to boot). Chaos Angel kind of sucks as a boss monster anyway. You need to be in a really solid position to summon him going first and even then, that doesn't provide any interruption and only making him with Darks isn't worth it (I remember one time in Master Duel's Light & Dark event where my Labrynth opponent made it and I summoned Tenyi Draco Masters to just blow it up).
@@natedog8281 I don't like lumping Divine in with the common six. Fundamentally, Divine is not really an attribute like Light, Wind, Water, Fire, Earth, or Dark(ness), and the word Divine is used to describe a host of monsters that have nothing to with the Egyptian Gods. Divine is not an attribute like the common six but the absence of those. It's rather that in case of the Divine Beasts, the question „what is your attribute? is it Light, Wind, Water, Fire, Earth, or Dark?“ is answered with no. In other words, the Gods are special and their attribute - if such a common term is even apt to speak of them - is not really available either (e. g. there are six Divine monsters at most, and there are only two pieces of Divine support: The True Name and Mound of the Bound Creator).
On one hand I enjoy cards being generic, cause it reminds me of the good old days of opening a pack and pulling cards that you could actually use in whatever deck, but I also see your point and strongly agree that some of these extra deck monsters being generic and as powerful as they are can be frustrating. In my experience I face off against Mannadium a lot and its always just Barronne, SP Little Knight, Apollousa, and maybe a Dis Pater / Chaos Angel, give or take a Fenrir and yeah it can get exhausting having to out those kind of boards.
I really like the jet dragon type of restriction, it only works if you have a blue eyes in the grave. So you have to play a brick to use him in other decks. He is still good on blue eyes and even dragon decks, but he isnt splashable in any deck easily
Generic extra deck monsters should always be limited to cards that are easy to summon but have a lower power budget. I think Starving Venom Fusion Dragon is a really good example of a generic done really well. No strategy (at least meta strategy) will try to focus a deck around it, and you are always better having your boss monster on the board, but it's super easy to bring out and can get you out of sticky situations. It's a good card to have around, it comes out every once in a while for a big play, but it never defines the decks it's in.
I honestly feel the same way. It annoys me when a deck has Extra deck monsters, but the optimal strategy doesn’t use them. Thats one reason I play Plunder. I play a few generic ED monsters like Almiraj, SP or Typhoon but the rest of my ED is all Plunder monsters
I think one of the advantages of everyone playing the same extra deck monsters is the saving of time after your turn and just more fluid play. When someone drops a bunch of boss monsters, I'm not familiar with I have to go through and read each one to identify how to play against it properly. Which with how long and complicated card text can be in Yu-gi-oh this can be a boring and complicated process. Not to mention that amount of people who will get frustrated while you do it, and or if you ask for a brief description people will either leave out details that come up out of sake for time or out of malice. So having a card I know all the ins and outs of pop up on the field streamlines the game play even when facing a new deck to an extent. All of this does not take away from your criticisms just adds a new viewpoint to the mix. We all know Yu-gi-oh players hate to read.
The thing with generic Extra Deck monsters is this: They were not made to avoid the need of players working about strategy/combos. They were made to break/overcome the limitations of specific Archetypes, Strategies and combos, to be used mainly when Combos, Strategies created/worked by a player revolving around specific Archetypes, etc. just stop working or being actually viable.
I have an Igknights-powered deck that is an engine to bring out Zubaba General and a few other cards. Sticking to the fire/warrior theme was a great challenge and I mostly kept to it, only having a few of my pet tech cards in for good measure. It can feel like an older school beatdown experience while employing XYZ and pendulums and link monsters. If Salamangreat synergized, I would already have a deck for it too. Eventually I will have a level-5 Igknight deck and a level-6 Igknight deck as other experiments, but next up will likely be a Metalfoes deck.
@@luisavalos4415Imagine using Genex Controller. That is still a primary tuner for even the Superheavy Samurai deck I have. It was my primary way to summon Superheavy Samurai Stealth Ninja when I set up a deck to even do so. I like the challenge of sticking to a theme but sometimes you work with what you have, and that can end up being better, or more fun. It is difficult for me to adjust some of my decks because of that fun factor, even with the drawback of moderate loss rates. When they pop off, it is like Christmas, every time!
The emphasis and reliance of the extra deck kinda blocks off the fun of improvising and giving that rogue-like “maybe this is the run” feel other card games give. The way YGO uses it is really damn cool and defining, but it’s reached a point of exhaustion, inaccessibility, and stifling future potential. I think fusion and synchro retroactively were kinda peak, as much as I love XYZ card designs and concepts
Nothing is more disheartening than seeing a deck or engine you rarely if ever see and think “wow, I’ve never seen this combo, I wonder what it will do?” Then it turns out to just be “extra deck good stuff deck number 2467” with no identity outside of being a less efficient way to get to the materials for the boss monsters.
Nobody likes losing lol. And unlike other games, with yugioh the difference in strength of cards is just waaayyyy too unrelenting. You either get stomped and stopped like a brick wall, or you give into the heavy feeling of "if you cant beat em join em" lol. Sadly it becomes pointless to play my favorite deck and end on a boss monster that 'gains attack during the damage step' or something, when those same resources used can give me a non targetable boss that cant be attacked, is non smellable, non tasteable, can double backflip and call your mother dirty names at the same time, omni negate who can be used once per chain. And thats how you end up with 10 'decks' in the meta who really only swap out 9-12 engine cards and run the same other 28 splashable broken cards and 15 extra deck.
I agree 100%. I was looking at playing different decks, and the final board was usually "Summon generic ED monsters." I wanted a deck that had in-archetype boss monsters, so now I plat Traptrix :) EDIT: I also play Abyss Actors, but one of that deck's strategies, especially going first, is still make generic ED monsters.
Sell some sets short term, you mean but long term it hurts them and us. If they had 150 of each currently generic 1 card for different types and attributes and archetypes (just with conditions or effects more fitting thematically for the thing in question) they would make way more money long term because more sets would be somewhat valuable to different groups, the game would be more balanced, and you wouldn't see 100 dollar cards because now people aren't vying for one card for every deck. Power creep can't be stopped but we're like 50 years ahead of where we "needed" to be and there is no excuse for it from a player or company standpoint except "shareholders are retarded" which is why they should be illegal for non-start ups. Shareholders don't care about the company or the actual consumers of the product. Listening to them is bad 100% of the time.
This perfectly describes my issues with generic extra deck monsters. It's not so much that Barone De Fleur, Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer or Borreload Savage are powerful cards, but its as you mentioned, they take away from one of the fun things about Yugioh. There's so many different decks you could build and have their own unique strategies, which if used correctly, can work out greatly. I do use Access code and Borreload Savage, but only in my Cyberse and Rokket decks specifically, because I don't want other decks that can link and synchro summon to become reliant on a generic card, because each deck has its own Flare that makes it tick. Now obviously some decks are just better than others, or are just very hard to beat. But to me, it's more fun to play with cards within the archetype, though even when I do use generic extra deck monsters, they won't be my MAIN go to. Like my Endymion deck uses Magician of Hope, but it doesn't NEED him in every situation to win. For me there's a difference between, throwing in a card that works well and your deck NEEDING that one card in order for it to work
This is why I like the gold sarc deck. Not only is it nostalgic, but it can set up a real decent board without any outside cards and ESPECIALLY no extra deck. That might change though since it can run dark magician stuff now, but there ain't no way I'm gonna use too many "staples" outside maybe 1 apollousa that I won't even summon 9 times out of 10.
I think branded is a good example of an in-archetype ED. Most that space is used for it's engine pieces and boss monsters that no other deck sees except maybe mudragon, and garura which are just superpoly targets.
I’ve been enjoying using Illusion and Flame Swordsman, yes the former can summon the Predaplant fusion, but it actually does more than 1 thing, god forbid, simple solution is to make more archetypal ED monsters that are somewhat usable
Solfachord is my favorite pendulum deck and it makes me sad they aren't better. They have such beautiful artwork and I like their playstyle. They finally got a better boss monster which is nice, but they need more. You could make every main deck monster have a Extra deck version. A scale 0 to summon Cutia. But seeing how pendulums are treated I'm not gonna hold my breath 😅 but a guy can dream. I always imagined that they could have boss monsters similar to D/D/D with them being Extra deck pendulums. Pendulums aren't even broken anymore. They deserve more.
I think they are a necessary evil for off-meta decks or hell, jank decks. I love me some under appreciated decks/archetypes but some don't have a boss monster like Harpies. They are seen as trash tier yet are incredibly effective in building a board yet you got nothing to build towards. The solution to this problem to me is make better Archetype boss monsters -- that's it. If people are using the generic monsters more, then your archetype bosses just aren't good enough. I know some break away from that to be different but they could totally make a few variants to each boss monster so people can be less predictable. The other thing is too, there are lot of decks that don't get new support cards and so generic cards to help them but like you said maybe they could be a little less generic and focus on say a monster type or attribute so it can be generic for a few decks but not all decks.
I understand having certain extra deck monster be a little more generic, like say Number 38, or Ultimaya Tzolkin, to make your end board slightly better. But when the end goal is pretty much to just end on these generic stuff, then the game just loses its fun for me. Generic extra deck monster should at best just be "better have this along my archetype's boss monsters on the field just to be extra careful", not be the boss monsters of every single deck. This is why I prefer to play Yu-Gi-Oh casually with pure decks, like pure Melodious or pure Blue-Eyes. I can end my board on my own archetype's boss monsters and be fine.
Idk if this counts but I hate Accesscode. So often I feel like I couldve had very nice duels but every time either I or my opponent links off his leftover monsters to an Accesscode and end the game for no reason. Anyone else feel like this? Same kind of goes for Apollousa too Ye I just finished watching the video and I 100% agree with literally anything he said. I was also thinking putting cards like Baronne to 0/0 ATK/DEF
YES! I wish I got to this video sooner. I said this all the time, one of the BIGGEST problems Modern yugioh is facing is just generic Extra deck "utility belt" to summon in ANY deck to deal with your opponent. Your strategy fails? Eh bring out accesscode and OTK Your opponent has a spell or trap that's causing trouble but you don't have in-archetype removal? Eh bring out Knightmare monster Your opponent worked REALLY HARD to bring out an unaffected monster (Cyberdark End Dragon)? Eh just Underworld of closed world it away (A KAIJU THATS ALWAYS AVAILABLE BTW, DONT EVEN NEED TO SEARCH IT)
As a returning player, I can't agree more. I am astonished time and time again at the amount of extra deck cards that completely shut down the game in the course of 1 turn. Its just not fun
This is something my mate and I have had since all the way back in Synchro era (where it was a significantly lesser issue compared to today), and is why we place some pretty heavy personal restrictions on ourselves when we're making archetype focused decks for our casual play. We do our best to avoid using Generic Extra Deck Monsters as much as possible, only filling in gaps that either fit the deck's theme or helps the deck in a more general way (that is, it's a tool not an end-game card, like King of Feral Imps in Reptile Decks) when we have don't have enough extra deck monsters for the archetype to fill up the extra deck (and even then we don't always fill up our extra deck). It might not be so bad if things were still more like how they were in the Synchro era where most Generic Extra Deck Monsters weren't over-powered and were more clearly designed to be used in combination with the base deck itself (think, Colossal Fighter works in any warrior heavy deck, strong but not overpowered, is a big beat stick that gets bigger but has a simple effect to balance it out). I don't really pay attention to the competitive scene anymore, but I imagine there really isn't any more generic style decks anymore like there used to be back when I played in locals regularly. No more generic plants, no more earth warriors. Only decks that run one or two archetype engines purely to speed run a bunch of unrelated generic extra deck god cards that have high attack, a bunch of negates, and/or immunity to effects/targeting/destruction because Konami is too lazy to properly design and attempt to balance the game. And I'm still waiting on some archetypes that were severely underpowered on release to actually get some damn support! My Venom and Jurrac decks need some fresh blood, by the love of Ra!
_Extra! Extra! Read all about it!_
Hi 😂
I want a 40 card extra deck and a 40 card deck
Yugioh needs an extra extra deck change my mind. How will the extra extra deck work it can be spells traps or any monster and if you opponent summons more than 4 cards then you can lay one card from it and it's effects canot be negated but is banished the next turn if it's a flood gate, and they don't go back into the extra extra deck after each game. 15 cards game 2 less cards game 3 less cards
Would you play a deck in this gimmick:
A deck designed to put and summon ritual monsters from the extra deck and graveyard.
I think lots of the issues with cards can be fixed with the Claus you can't attack directly this would make a lot of dumb wipes the board cards like access code fairer. Also the SP:Little knight makes going 2nd better which is good for the game the fact it is good going 1st as well is also a credit for it’s inclusion in the extra deck.
They could also make that lower tier decks should getting better boss monsters and extra deck monster should be better going 2nd rather than 1st.
Remembering that horrible period where every single strategy no matter what it was ended on verte/DPE.
And before that, Stardust Dragon, Black Rose Dragon, Ancient Fairy Dragon, and Goyo Guardian.
@@DeathScorpiantbf Black Rose is a card that ends boards, not a card on the endboard
@amiablereaper You aren't wrong but it was still a solid beatstick if you needed it and the second effect was still solid
Goyo Guardian and Black Rose are board breaker staple/toolbox, which makes them a lot more conditional as different board requires different answer
And depending on what format we're talking about, Stardust also very rarely hits the board turn 1 (turboing it is often just not a good play). Games being slower also makes monsters in your main deck shine more, as you can have Gale clapping Stardust instead of Baronne vs Zeus round 245934
A different topic but omnis are also very obnoxious as you can't outplay it; to beat it you always go neg as theres no single card in your main deck that outs Baronne
Yea they need to have generic monsters to sell the set especilly as you often only need 1 so if everyone needs 1 that's bigger than only the players playing x deck need 1 or maybe 2. You could maybe argue that the boss monsters for low tier decks need to be stronger @@DeathScorpian
I've said this for years now: Konami made deliberate decisions when they gave so many of these super bosses generic materials. There's no justifiable reason why Access code doesn't require cyberse material, there's no reason why Baronne shouldn't require Fluer Synchron.
Or Verte/Halq not to interact directly with Predaplant/Crystrons.
my biggest gripe with generic extra deck cards is they have pretty much turned any synchro combo deck (Mannadium and Superheavy, etc) into the same endboards of say Dis Pater, Borrelload, Baronne, and Appalousa. it takes the soul out of the archetypes and just makes the main deck a different toolbox to GET to those monsters. plus it turns duels into such non-games from the amount of negates there are.
Yeah but if they had given Superheavy Samurai, Manadome or even Snake-Eyes real pay-offs in the ED the problem wouldn't have been this bad. It is necessary for these kind of decks that generic pay-offs exist otherwise they would do nothing going first. I think it is so strange that Konami still sometimes designs decks that have no in-archetype interruptions they can build towards. If they would give decks more in-archetype boss monsters they could even give these decks harsher ED-restrictions (if even necessary since decks tend to prefer going for their own bosses) and it wouldn't matter that much. Even decks that get in-archetype interruptions often only get 1-2 so then they need other generic stuff to end on in addition to their in-archetype interruptions if they have the capability to get the material on field otherwise all of the monsters they are able to summon would be useless.
As a Mannadium player, I have to say, I do really wish I could use Prime-heart in any reasonable capacity. Unfortunately it just doesn't contribute to much of an endboard, and it sucks that they made the deck just...not really have any in-archetype strength for an endboard. At the very least, the deck uses quite a bit of extra-deck monsters specific to the Broken Worlds archetypes. Trisukta and Visas Amarita exist in decklists (though only as a plan b scenario from my experience), and Light-heart and Astroloud are also rather important combo pieces for the deck.
But that's just it; they're combo pieces, not the endboard. Sure Astroloud has removal on summon, but if you're going first, you're not using that effect if at all. So in the end, you just have to turn to the generic boss monsters in order to give yourself a fighting chance to win when it's your opponent's turn. It's definitely not the best, but if I want to play the deck, there's hardly any other option since inherently, most of the extra deck's inherent bosses just aren't that great to end on.
@@kurapi2314 Unfortunately you'd have to discard the entire last 5 or so years of yugioh to fix this problem. So we're stuck with what we've got (excepting fan-made formats), cos if you make a new deck like you said, it would just lose to the past 5 years of decks. It definitely is getting too much recently though; SHS, Mannadium etc are too combo heavy and SHS especially is too resilient and consistent, and on the other hand Tear, Branded can just feel unfair due to their insane recursion.
@@kurapi2314 Every since around POTE this has become a lot better though. Games usually don't come down to "let's just try to spit out as much as possible turn 1 so they can't play" but more into a "I will outresource you" type of situation. Which is good. Yes, there are still decks like Mannadium but they aren't even doing that well for a good reason. We're in a midrange format for a while now ever since enablers like HalqDon and Verte etc. were banned. Baronne is still kind of dumb.
On top of the Extra Deck end board taking the soul out of the archetype don't forget said archetype (depending of course) is also running anywhere between 3-12 hand traps. Whenever you see people post "Pure decklists" you'll always see the top comment saying "Pure? I see 9 of said archetype and 12 hand traps😂"
Generic extra deck cards have been the issue. Spot removal and omni negates should really be regulated to in archetype boss monsters or cards. The extra deck generic cards should really just be utility cards that help you get out of certain scenarios.
true and not a 3000 boss monster that also have a negate and can be resummon again
Yea
Hey everyone. This guy is high over here, cause he thinks generic extra deck monsters are a problem lol
There are still good OG cards that can slap those extra deck monsters. They do it the same ways. It is all the nature of this game.
@@darkherosolidoxThey have ALWAYS been. If it were not them, it would be the main deck staples that get all the ire.
This is the exact mindset I try carrying into Master Duel ranked and it bites me so hard. I wish we all gravitated toward making an archetype or strategy work within itself moreso than ending on the exact same 8-10 end boards. It gets boring and tiring facing the exact same 3 decks when all I wanna do is play my funny little Junk/Synchron deck without having to sprinkle the exact same other extra deck monsters everyone ELSE is using. I guess it’s a personal issue since I could just adapt and shut up if I want to keep up with the game but I got into Yu-Gi-Oh! because of how interesting and varied a lot of the deck building seemed, it feels kinda soulless now since I keep running into the same omni-negates and such. This problem even kinda extends to hand traps and other things of the sort but that’s another complaint for another day, thank you for putting this gripe into words, I haven’t been able to properly explain why modern YGO makes me so sad.
Generic extra deck monsters have been a problem for years. Most strategies feel very similar because they churn out the same end boards. Some examples
•Make multiple negates with Baronne + Apollusa with an occasional Borreload Savage
•Use Accesscode to clear Boards
•Cram Zeus in everything that Xyz summons
•S:P & Ty-Phon in literally every extra deck that has room.
I’m of the opinion that extra deck cards should either be specific to the strategy, require certain materials to make them less generic, or if they are generic; they need to have an inherent flaw (like not having a strong effect or be easily beaten over if they have a strong effect for example)
Uh sp is that way
I remember when I first played Witchcrafters in Master Duel mixed with some other spellcaster archetype and I closed out a decent number of games with... neither of those, because I could often link into Accesscode Talker and I just finished them with that
@@pixeldemon3267I think that you need a card like fenrir or diabellstar in order to beat over s:p. Activating any effects to add an additional body can lead to it temporarily banish one of your cards along with a monster they have on field. Not to mention that you will often have other disruptions to contend with
It makes the meta even more agonizing in online play, because you're tied to a screen (as opposed to RL where you at least have the texture of human interaction) and have to stay present if you have even a single negate waiting, b/c most simulators are automated and will ask you for every effect unless you disable it, which is another hazard entirely.
When it's the same stuff keeping you it drains all the fun out.
Your comment made me feel compelled to comment because I've said exactly this (and been laughed out of the game for it) since literally when Synchros were introduced. Back in the GX era, Archetypes played fundamentally differently from one another and usually had, if not entirely unique mechanics dedicated just to them (like Arcana Force, Cloudian, or Crystal Beasts), then at least focused on specific strengths that guided you to play in one way over another (Zombies were weak in battle but could come back from the graveyard more easily, Warriors had effects that mostly triggered via battle, Fairies focusing on Life Gain effects, Fire cards focusing on Burn damage, etc).
Once Synchros hit, Archetypes stopped having their own playstyles and instead just became different flavors of engines to spam extra deck monsters. It didn't matter any more if you were playing Zombies or Six Sams or Plants or Heroes, everyone's field ended up with Stardust Dragon, Black Rose Dragon, and Goyo Guardian as the win con. Blackwings and Glad Beasts were the only reprieve because at least they included their own monsters in with the generic extra deck spam.
"But where were all the Blue-Eyes monsters?"
"IN THE GRAVE! 😃"
Or under Neo Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon and Galaxy-Eyes Cipher Dragon, or with the current DL raid event: Number 107.
I have a decent Blue-Eyes focused deck that includes a few other great ones, like the Odd-Eyes set (Odd-Eyes Advance Dragon may be my #1 favorite) and Mardark, all being better together. It includes the Galaxy-Eyes/Photon XYZ too as a way to both open up the board and get more value. It can be a fun flex.
@@residentgrey it’s fun for the player but it isn’t for the opponent
@@gabrieldevoogel6225 Losing is never fun regardless of the path to it.
@@residentgrey literally no, losing can be fun, that’s the point of not being a sore loser, actually seeing the fun and sportsmanship beyond the basic concepts of winning and losing
@@gabrieldevoogel6225 I have been working at it for a couple years and it is still affecting me strongly most days. Years of depression and pain can do a number on someone.
“Check out my dark magician deck!” Spams the same extra deck I’ve been seeing for the past 3 metas…none of which are spellcasters…
The sad part to that is there are some fun DM extra deck cards too. I like the variety of fusions there are for that deck set
@@zzzzz329 it can be a little unreliable to pull off but i think the dragon knight/eternal soul/piercing the darkness lock is conceptually fun lol
except Selene.
This is why I like the fusion mechanic the most. Most fusion archetypes end up using their own monsters.
This is why Branded is the king
@@a-listgamer7873 When I wrote this I didn't have Branded in mind, but ok.
*looks at DPE and dragoon during Verte's lifespan* hmmmmm
@@gastgadtje8753 I mean it revolves around my boi Albaz
@@a-listgamer7873 Oki
I hate how archetypal boss monsters, like the new level 12 Superheavy Synchro, are so weak compared to the generic stuff too. Imagine if it was like a level 12 Barrone, but it required Superheavy monsters to summon
Eh he's fine
Why do you want another Baronne in the game ?
It isn't another Barone, it's not generic so you will only see it in it's deck. The problem with Barone is that it's literally everywhere and you have no reason to summon that level 12 Superheavy card because Barone already exists and it's easier to get out. @@spncrgrn
@@ZEDEX252For a boss monster of an archetype, he is pretty weak in comparison to other generic synchros
On the other side of the coin, you have cases like Barrone de Fleur, where its meant to be part of an archetype/series of cards but is made generic meaning the rest of its cards don't see play (Barrone is part of an archetype that partially revolves around Fleur Synchron... why does it not require Fleur Synchron as material like the other Synchro monster of its archetype).
You add 1 S:P, 1 Typhon, 1 Accesscode Talker, and boom you have the cost of a Nintendo Switch Lite
im actually crying if you choose a switch light over the three cards
@KoraFTP switch lite won't get banned in a year.
Luckily i was able to pull them in booster boxes 😬
Access code is getting reprinted soon thankfully!
@KoraFTP The Nintendo Switchlite is a cool video game console that can easily be converted to cash. The other is just sheets of useless paper. Only a small group of people understand these cards' value.
They make Generic Boss Monsters good and Non Generic mediocre to downright terrible where it should be the other way around
This is the reason why I think Sky Striker and branded are so beloved by many, most of the extra deck is in theme of the archetype except some generics here and there.
Generic extra deck monsters are boring and annoying.
Oh yeah? Do even people cared about Archtype locking itself? Like Branded? Dragonlink? or even the likes of Ghoti or Beetrooper??
People hate generic ED when it's the only saving grace of the game. If an archtype is locked,. it will be forgotten forever once the game moves forward the new thing.
@@naknampucha5236 instead decks that can spit out large numbers of their own arctypal extra deck but can't shit out the almost always stronger generics get forgotten instead while decks that just shit out the same shit as every other deck until they get replaced by the next deck that does it faster and better comes around
How about Konami just print better specific ED monsters to encourage their use in their attribute, type, or archetype?
@@kinryuten the issue is they would have to be a big step more powerful and easy to summon to even begin to justify their place in the ED over the generics
Your favorite archetype is going to recieve support on the form of a new boss monster:😄
BUT it's just a generic omninegate that it does nothing with the OG strategy or theme and is going to be abused by every other deck: 💀
poor DPE, Baronne and others
Dpe was more an issue of verte. For hero it actually bolsters the going first potential and grind ability.
Barrone has no actual dedicated deck outside of like 3 other cards which isn't really enough to say it's a deck
Generic Extra Deck monsters are such a problem. They make so every deck becomes homogenous and if they're stronger than the archetypal options (the ones that usually restrict you) they completelly murder how unique some decks can be.
It's also a restraint on design space - they can't make archetype Extra Deck monsters WEAKER than the generics because they'll never see the light of day, but they can't make them STRONGER because then you have even more blatant BUY THE NEW STUFF!! and have started to approach to Tier 0
It's also a restraint on design space - they can't make archetype Extra Deck monsters WEAKER than the generics because they'll never see the light of day, but they can't make them STRONGER because then you have even more blatant BUY THE NEW STUFF!! and have started to approach to Tier 0
It's also a restraint on design space - they can't make archetype Extra Deck monsters WEAKER than the generics because they'll never see the light of day, but they can't make them STRONGER because then you have even more blatant BUY THE NEW STUFF!! and have started to approach to Tier 0
Exactly. Generic Extra Decks IMO should be kept to utility stuff (the Knightmare example is perfect imo, it's a three card commitment to a pop, what most archetypes can do cheaper.)
Also friend you accidentally commented like thrice, in case you wanna clear up.@@WavemasterAshi
@@WavemasterAshiIf an archtype is weak,. it will be forgotten forever,. do even people care about the Archtype itself when it got ruined into irrelevancy? Do people play pure invoked or shaddol?
It's nepotism when you say you want sticking to archtype locking when none of damn players stayed to play Inzektors or Zoodiacs on the current sets. It's very un-progressive when generic ED connects all the best possible card design without completely hindering the creativity for old cards to have an opportunity itself.
First time seeing Libromancers in MD was someone called letmecook, proceeded to make DPE and set scythe...it was like having exotic ingredients being used to make a hamburger.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
That's not a good simile because such a hamburger would still taste special, the incredients give flavour to the whole.
DPE and Scythe, however, are always the same, regardless of what combo it was exactly that brought them out.
i like a lot of shitty archetypes (libromancer included) and yup, their most optimal endboard is usually just the same as every other better deck but with a lot more effort and worse recursion or hand advantage. not to mention way more fragile combo lines.
That analogy was beautiful.
That was me... sorry.
The complete singularity in strategies around generic extra deck monsters is what drove me away from the game. There are archetypes which utilize the extra deck (like my sweet baby HEROS and Cyber Dragon). You said it perfectly. These high value, generic cards takeaway the soul of those archetypes. Generic should always lose to highly specific cards. But Yu-Gi-Oh has jumped the shark so hard at this point i dont think it can be tamed.
" generic should always lose to specific"
I'm putting that up on my wall it's perfect
The ritual event we had a couple of weeks ago was such a breath of fresh air not having to play/vs 99% of the extra deck.
Simplified deck building. Really enjoyable event.
Yes, exactly. Finally someone who says it.
I was taking a break of MD during that time. A shame I missed it
Not a single Kashtira card in site it was beautiful
Not a single Kashtira card in site it was beautiful
Not a single Kashtira card in site it was beautiful
Branded is probably the best example of making a deck pretty unique when it comes down to the extra deck.
Almost all of it's extra deck has in archtype monsters, the only generic ones are either used for Superpoly or whn you normal summon Albaz.
Yeah, who knew summoning monsters with good effects from the ED for basically free was a bad thing that practically stifles the game and makes every deck you see feel same-y or nonoptimal if you don't run it?
That beard is screaming "I've gone to the mountains and learned the secrets of Yugioh" and you came back with this video. LOL
I agree fully. I feel there are a lot of extra deck card that just end up being invasive and make decks way too similar. What’s the point in deck building a different archetype if you’re just going to build the same board.
As the anime and manga taught us all: there are dualists that dual for the sake of themselves and victory (same end board, seven negates plus recycling) and there are dualists who duel because it brings them closer to other people and it is fun (using outdated archetypes or coming up with truly wacky strategies)
Regarding Baronne de Fleur, having it require a Wind Warrior as material would be weird because then you wouldn't be able to use Sorciere de Fleur or Sauge de Fleur as the non-tuner. Having it require Fleur Synchron as the tuner would be somewhat better.
100% Agree. Especially since two other cards from the set can make cards treated as Fleur Synchron. Noble Knight's Spearholder can make a LV8 or lower monster treated as Fleur Synchron as well as turning it into a tuner, and Necro Synchron turns itself into it while on the field or in the GY.
If they had to make it generic, Junk Warrior as well could be used alongside Fleur Synchron
Should not be a Wind Warrior, but could be a Wind OR Warrior (as the non-tuner)
Devil's Advocate: Powerful generic extra deck choices are good since they allow for brewing outside of the "cookie cutter" archetypes that are most common. However, those choices should be good as utility pieces, not ridiculous boss monsters.
This would be useful if utility cards were viable in Current Year, but...
I'm working on something that looks like a pile of cards that creates a bunch of generic boss monsters. Can I use 4 archetypes in one deck?
This is one of the biggest complaints I've noticed with older players is that in the olden days there were less specific archetypes (i.e. you had a fiend deck, dino deck, water deck, etc) as opposed to today you would have a Branded deck or Traptrix or Tearlaments. It allows for less broad spectrum synergy within the YGO card pool. I feel like complaints for generic extra deck monsters are symptoms of a larger issue.
@@vxicepickxvha I've already Mastered cramming 3 archetypes into one deck. 47 cards. Super consistent. Nice juicy ritual pile with a sword soul chixiao searching a blackout as part of the endboard
Too far though and the cookie cutter template you're using is just one that starts with its generic boss monsters. There's a balance to be struck, and there's a lot more space for diversity and brewing in the main deck.
@@letsgostupid Those generic archtypes have the advantage of being able to branch out. While they may not be as strong as a narrow archtype, you can go into Plan B, C or D rather easily.
Remember when almost every Extra Deck list included the likes of Iron Chain Dragon, Black Rose, Trishula, Brionac, Hyper Librarian, Scrap Dragon, Stardust, and Naturia Beast? Or Exciton Knight, Daigusto Emeral, Lavalval Chain, Number 101 and Gem-Knight Pearl?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
or ter, rotn, balter, fsk, ryu and gattling
a lot of those cards were ignition effects tho and rarely negates or anything. quick effects were so rare especially without a cost so thats probs what makes todays game seem worse.
I remember
Pearl is now even in one of the NPC decks in Duel Links, and effectively so! I even use it in some decks as an alt to #70 or Dark Rebellion XYZ Dragon (but they defo get added too, Pearl is a great add to my Jim Cook/Fossil deck).
There are plenty of others that are now seen well outside their archetype to this day. It would be great if this were catalogued better, and in all formats. We primarily have YCS and similar event stats instead of the greater picture. So much experimentation is lost to time and, well, loss.
@@saviorofs0ngExciton is a negate.
Generic extra deck monsters should inherently be MUCH weaker than archetypal extra deck monsters. It’s so annoying and disappointing seeing an archetypal boss be thrown away because it’s made to be much weaker for zero reason compared to something like baronne
I feel you. I'm playing Speedroid, which has a combo that can Accel Synchro the level 10 Crystal Clear Wing Synchro Dragon, but making Barrone just makes more sense... At least it's a wind
if we had a clear wing main deck monster I think it would be ok to play
@@janithernest3929You don't need more with Speedroids. We even have far less on Duel Links and that is one of the most complete in that format, and it still slaps. The synchros were a great addition! We get a better alternative to Red Rose Dragon and more!
@@janithernest3929There IS something lacking in the main deck to my eyes though...we did not get great pendulum cards for the archetype. They work but could we have better? I think so.
I play speed road to and we need more pendulum monsters and maybe better link minsters besides shooter
I feel another way to go about the generic extra deck issue is that they can keep things generic, but add a line where it says “if made with x materials”. Like if Baronne was made wind monsters or a Fleur it has the effect that it has now. But if made with generic materials it’s effect gets nerfed with a cost or a draw back. Or with Savage, if it doesn’t use a rocket maybe it only gains attack or only gets one negate, but it doesn’t get both. Essentially restricting you from unlocking the cards full potential outside of the intended deck, but still allowing you to use it to some extent.
God, that would be nice except for the amount of TEXT on the card.. 😂
@@boliver30 yet another reason for Konami to start using keywords
I think Galaxy-Eyes has pretty much an extra deck which is all of it's own Boss Monsters, sure example cards like 90 and 38 are generic but Lord has beneficial effects with it's home archetype, being immune to destruction while having a Photon attached and pops a card if it negates something if it has a Galaxy attached. And also searches a in archetype card. The only generic Extra Deck boss monsters it has is S:P and maybe Zeus while everything else is in home.
Yes Photon Lord does a lot more in Galaxy Photon tbh
i fucking love galaxy eyes. its always been my favorite deck(and favorite card in general) and as someone who almsot always uses it the only generic extra deck card i use is zeus and even then i rarely ever use him(i just never need to) galaxy eyes for me is the only deck i genuinely enjoy using i just wish generic extra deck monster didn't exist
nothing is more fun then using decks that either use rarely used generic material extra deck monsters orr using a deck that has no real spaces for generics and yet still thriving
Heyo its the galaxy master himself
I feel like this has been an issue since Synchros became a thing. It's almost like they saw how god awful fusion monsters were and over-compensated. At least back when the game wasn't purely archetype based, it kind of made sense. Black Rose Dragon not needing a plant, stuff like that, that was fine enough back in the day, but it just never evolved since then. Half the time, unless your deck as an explosive archetype-specific boss monster, it doesn't matter what deck you play because you still end up trying to bring out the same boss monsters. It's boring.
Generic extra deck monsters should've stayed on the level of things like Tornado Dragon. Practical effect, easy to make, but pretty easy to punch over and definitely not the kind of thing you build a whole deck with the specific intention of turboing out.
I remember when i started playing. Didnt go to locals yet and only played with a friend. He had been playing for years, but also didnt go to locals and it was fun at first. But two things started to bother me.
1. He only played to win and chose tech cards just to outplay me specifically. I had like 2 or 3 decks, all of them pretty weak cause it was mostly structure deck only. I mean, he wasnt running meta staples or anything. Still, kinda sucked.
2. (And this is why i started typing). I only had 3 decks but my boards were pretty different in many games. Sure, cyber strike had a main line combo at least i repeated a lot, but there was variety. Sure, that also happened because the decks were kinda weak and inconsistent, but also because i wanted my decks to feel different.
Meanwhile his decks were also really cool. Just one thing though. He literally had the same board all the time. He played a completely different strategy just to have the same monsters and it was so weird to me. Why even own multiple decks?
While I realize this is almost as impossible to do as just "Errata all the cards", I really think Konami is squandering a powerful resource with Master Duel. One of the things I've been trying to say for ages and I still hope it will catch on some day, is if Konami didn't just have a banlist but also a choice restrict. In the physical TCG, I can see how that would be a nightmare to have people keep track of things. However, the same can't be said for Master Duel. Like rather than ban a card that got abused by some rando pile of cards because of degenerate combos that make the archetype its from suffer...just put in you can have card A in your deck or Card B in your deck, but not both. Look what happens! Suddenly the banlist can get way smaller and the rogue decks/weaker archetypes that happen to have one busted card don't get harmed anymore. Yes, some things would have to stay banned, but I still think choice restriction is the way to go, especially if you are having the game be digital and it can just auto regulate the decks for people.
I really, REALLY feel that take.
Nowadays it's a lot faster to point out the decks using their deck-specific boss monsters compared to doing the opposite (Off the top of my head it's really just HERO, Branded, Labrynth and Floowandereeze that I see on a regular basis).
I especially wish we'd get good, usable pendulum boss monsters, as you're really stuck using the generic stuff on that front (except Vortex Dragon I suppose).
As a complete aside I remember when Vaylantz came out in the TCG and their boss monster was just kind of bad as its effect was not quite flexible enough and it was really rough to summon alongside other things and it made the deck feel a lot more disappointing than it was realistically.
I feel this video should've been titled "I'm tired of the Yu-Gi-Oh generic boss monsters" or "-board enders"
Not eye catching enough
Speaking of in-archetype boss monster, did you know that you cannot target Mannadium Prime-Heart with card effects when it was sychro summoned with "Mannadium" tuners as material?
the only -heart monster to never see play
A lot of this comes down to either non--generic ED monsters requiring generic or easily accessible materials that make playing them outside of their archetype more useful than within it, or completely generic cards just having stronger effects than whatever requires specific archetype to run.
Synchros are often guilty of this because not a whole lot of them require specific materials, so this issue has been around for as long as the mid to late 2000s with things like Goyo Guardian(before it got an Earth Tuner requirement to fit in with the rest of its archetype) and the Ice Barrier Dragons(which wound up forcing an errata on Brionac to attempt its effect all in one go each turn instead of 1 by 1). Earth decks will make a beeline to the Naturia Synchros to floodgate out certain decks from the game, so while not entirely generic they get used a lot for specific niches, it's a lot like Promethean Fire Princess adds extra recursion and disruption to Fire heavy decks, but is even easier to get to so it doesn't make those decks worse for running it, and I think that's fine(more fine than Naturia Synchros turning tons of Earth decks to floodgate Turbo at least).
When you see something like Accesscode Talker require only "2+ Effect Monsters" instead of having Cyberse specific requirements/locks like many of the other Code Talkers, you know Konami is deliberately pushing a card to be an option in every deck that has space to run it. Firewall Dragon didn't even have THAT as a restriction(and still only has "2+ Monsters" as a requirement so Scapegoat can technically make it), and only got banned because of FTK abuse, and THEN got its errata to force it to be Cyberse focused specifically(and is STILL a strong card in decks like @Ignister that was designed as a sidegrade to Code Talkers for lore reasons).
5Ds-era Synchros have to be cut a bit of slack because 5Ds-era archetypes were for the most part pretty wank. Half the reason you were running Goyo and Brionac was because your archetype's own synchros were often not worth the effort put into summoning them. The difference now is that in-archetype options are great and well-worth their materials, but the generic bosses are even more overpowered.
@@yurisei6732The key example of this is Blackwing. Blackwing use both their own Syncro and generic ones because they are on par in terms of power levels; sometimes it is better to summon their own Syncros than generic, specially since their hand oftentimes don't align with the level 6.
Remember when the main deck wasn't just a stepping stone? Remember when we actually used it?
well i would just say to this: implement a extra deck banlist with the duel link banlist rules.
just put tons of the generic cards on limit 2-3 and it makes extradecks more unique
I have been thinking about it for a while too. The duel links banlist rules may actually help the game a lot.
I wasn't a fan of Duel Links' style of banlist when I first encountered it, but I've come to appreciate how it can positively affect certain decks balance-wise.
I think having a mix of the current style and the Duel Links style banlists would help fix a number of problems. Like maybe calling ones with the current style "Soft Limited" and the Duel Links style "Hard Limited".
Honestly a good idea. ED is too flexible with generics, especially since you never draw anything from it. Or just shrink it to 10 slots
@@pnyhmsmx shrinking it to 10 slots would probably just make people ditch deck-specific extra deck cards altogether in favor of the splashable staples.
If I play a pure Dark Magician Deck I should be allowed to use Dragoon. F u Konami
Why go pure anyway? That kinda sucks. I see so much that can be added alongside that fits the theme while adding great tech. We have so many options in some cases we can go out of our way to stay in that theme while having a competitive deck. They gave us plenty of room to flex.
@@residentgrey But brotha they gave us so much flex that it actually hurts us.
i said this since long time, Konami can't think logical, instead of ban or errata Verte Anaconda they banned Dragoon, they retired a good support to Dark Magician and Red eyes because they don't want Verte Anaconda to go.... they are so stupid, people that make the cards don't even play the games so it was expected
Ban them all or errata them, then make new generic boss monsters more balanced, this is essential to keep the game alive. I remember when an extra deck was not mandatory to be relevant. I think the generic-ness of these powerful boss monsters is also a sales ploy to get everyone trying to pull it because if you don't have it, you're behind.
u play the game already for 20 years? because the extra was very relevant in the 2004/2003 format and only before that it wasnt, but it was ungabunga times, so...
@N1GhtKnIGht What I meant was that not everyone had to run an extra deck to play, let alone playing the same cards as everyone else in that extra deck. Unga bunga times were great btw.
@@l3oogle la djinn format was boring af and most sets after people all just played beater and the power 5 yeah fun format. it just got better around lon/mfc/dcr and there was the extradeck very importent
I liked GX and 5ds era the most. People in the anime ran extra decks, and some didn't, and they could still play.
@@l3oogle oh yeah, this era, were u actually played ed monsters from other decks, just in case u play against these decks :x would be superpoly/reaper format now, nothing changed, just that u see more tops. btw anime was fun to watch but nothing like the game actually was, at the time mekklords reached the anime, there were the second most ftk's of all time
it's because Konami thought it would go the other way around.
the Fleur deck sucks, so they thought by making Baronne generic, then people would only play it in Fleur, but run generic tuner support to make it.
they do that with every generic ED monsters, it's just that players don't play the game the way Konami wants them to.
I don't think it was a specific consideration to make it generic. It is good they did so for most or many would see NO play.
Konami's mistake wasn't specifying what kind of non tuner materials were required if they wanted generic tuners to be used
Konami is too stupid to realise that a powerful boss monster with no summoning restrictions will get splashed into every other archetype that doesn't suck balls
@@z1u512 that's also true. Konami is too dumb to realize how they handle the anime with deck designs doesn't translates to how people play the card game if they want to win in a bloated card pool.
@@z1u512 No they are and were figuring it all out. They have some good designers on staff now, just like MTG.
This is kind of why i like the monthly events in Master Duel, cause they usually ban a good amount of those extra deck cards everyone plays and allows for more fun deck builds and duels.
You know what Baronne's requirements should have been?
_1 Tuner Synchro Monster + "Chevalier de Fleur"_
This would have made it a great parallel to Shooting Star Dragon.
And with material requirements like those, you could afford to make Baronne much more powerful without making it ban worthy since only certain decks would be able to run it. For example, you could make its omni-negate a soft once per turn instead of "once while face-up on the field", while still being able to pop a card every turn.
I never understood why it was made generic
But then you wouldn't be able to summon it with centaur mina or the sorcerers. A more effective solution would be to make it require fleur synchron specifically since all of the deck's tuners have effects that let them sub for it. And few decks would want to run them or fleur.
As someone who prefers the extra deck as a toolbox. I approve. Unless my boss monster is an extra deck monster. I prefer to focus only on the main deck.
Ok so I think you skipped over the issue of WHY the extra deck is a problem. Primarily, the extra deck is kinda like having 15 additional cards in your hand that say "If you meet certain requirements (including generic ones), you can X (usually tribute monsters) to special summon this card." So of course games are gonna be the same when 15/20 of your starting hand is the same cards. Magic semi-recently had a group of cards that all did something very similar with a mechanic called "Companion". A chunk of those cards ended up being banned in various formats, and there was even a rulings change that instead of paying (cost) to play the card, you first had to pay (3) to put it in your hand.
Generic monsters being strong has never been the issue. It has always been the fact that many archetype locked bosses are just bad. Why do all Synchro decks make Baronne? It's not because Baronne is too strong, it's because the other bosses are too weak. What we need is for Synchro archetypes to get actual competitive non-generic boss monsters. This of course applies to all of the other summoning methods too.
I think if we want generics to be less prevelant, rather than trying to ban them or nerf them outright (minus some exceptions though), it'd be better to raise the power ceiling for in-archetype cards/boss monsters for all types of decks. A lot of especially rogue or formerly rogue decks turn to generics when they can because they just don't have powerful enough cards in their own archetype to stay competitive. Imo, if we want to limit powerful generics, we should improve upon non-generics so people don't feel obligated to make a cookie cutter endboard.
Idk about that. I agree that they essentially need those generic cards in order to raise the power if their decks but raising the power of the in archetype cards/boss monsters would require restrictions so that they do not have access to the generic extra deck monsters as well.
Generic boss monsters they say, but i cannot even use those monsters on Marincess deck XD
Personally one disheartening thing from extra deck boss monsters is when some decks can freely fill up extra deck with those monsters because 'there is no summoning restriction', meanwhile some other decks cannot benefit from generic boss monsters because they're locked into certain type/attrib/summoning mechanic. Everyone plays S.P. Little Knight on their ED, and it sucks for those who cannot play the card because of summoning restriction.
Gotta see the positives, atleast you won't need to spend over a 100 $ on one card
Rikka is probably one of the few "good" decks that couldn't care less about S:P little knight 🤷🏿
I do appreciate that generic Extra Deck cards help fix gaps in a deck's own capabilities, stop it being crippled against certain strategies. And like you said it can also help empower lower tier decks to still compete even if their own raw power is lower.
That said...yeah the ones that currently exist are a little too good, I agree. I actually kind of like Apollousa's design relative to many of them; since her negate doesn't destroy there are some cards she's pretty ineffective against and because her attack gets so low she's pretty easy to beat in battle. She's still extremely strong but has a lot of limits. Whereas a card like Baronne is just always good and hard to out. But even there it's like, if you have 4 random materials left you might as well make Apo, there's rarely another real choice.
I kind of wish they would design more unorthodox effects on generic bosses. Shoutout to Icejade Gymir Aegirine: her effect is really strong but has unusual templating, and she's nearly generic but has just one requirement (the Water tuner) so a lot of decks can use her but it requires a little planning to do so. I want more Extra Deck cards like that, where they're generic within a certain type or attribute or something. Rikka like you mentioned is perfect that way, they get to use all kinds of cool monsters that only work for Plants even though they aren't specifically Rikkas.
Great video as always!
A couple of Rikka's were actually in the running for when I made my Black Rose Dragon deck.
Then I noticed Evilswarm Mandragora isn't OPT.
I do the same too. In my destiny board deck I use cards that help putting fiends in the graveyard as quickly as possible so I can bring out dark Necrofear with no problem early game
Gymir is such a good card. She's what a good boss monster should be. Not too generic, not difficult to make, and has good effects. She's come in clutch many times
My man figured out the secret to deck building!
Most generic extra deck monsters nowadays are extra interruptions or card advantage/more summon generators. I think is ok to have generic extra deck monsters if they're used just as silver bullets. Like for example the knightmares. They're generic but their effects are just pop a monster or spell/trap. Nothing too crazy but could be game changers in some situations.
Agree 1000% So upset to always see that *blank* deck is just an engine for the same generic Extra Deck monsters. They should retire these monsters by giving them specific materials, like making Barone require plant or warrior tuner, or maybe even making a retrained "Fleur" archetype and make her materials even more specific, for example.
I've had several non-yugioh players which have shared with me the view that all modern yugioh cards just to do the same thing. Look at a lot of modern end boards, they have a point.
Creating strong generic cards limits what thematic decks can do. Because the generics are too powerful, the themed support is either overpowered which leads to bans, lacks the versatility, or is underpowered to the point of not being playable.
Tearlaments were practically banned on release despite being one of the few recent decks to release with little generic support. Then again, it didn't require generics because it was an overpowered mechanic.
I feel Underworld Goddess is a good generic extra-deck monsters and gives decks an out for tricky Towers monsters. It does have cost being link-5 and it also does not win the game on it's own like Acccesscode can.
I really hate how every Extra Deck just summons the same handful of generic monsters. Part of it is because most of those are floodgate/negates, which kill any enjoyment in the game, but also it’s just kinda boring. I miss when you’d have big main deck boss monsters, or in-archetype extra deck boss monsters that were actually worth keeping on board as opposed to some generic synchro or link monster
Even outside of meta decks it’s come to this. When I play Melffy it always devolves into “how fast can I pump out a zeus or avramax or savage” and all the actual Melffy cards feel more like support than the actual deck. It’s just kinda lame
I'm happy to say that I play a couple of archetypes that don't use the extra deck at all, Lair of Darkness and Mikanko. I like not relying on extra deck summons to fight back. It's like the perfect combination of old school Yu-Gi-Oh with just your standard deck to use and modern power to keep up with the game (for the most part). I also means the Pot cards that discard extra deck cards are basically free draws/perfect bait for that Ash you know is in the opponent's hand. Non-extra deck archetypes have their perks, and it's fun to play differently from most other players.
I love Lair of Darkness! I do however run 3 cards in the ED, 2 Dharcs and 1 Beat Cop, both links. I very rarely use them, they’re only included cuz they go along with the LoD strategy and useful for certain situations
@@natedog8281 I've rarely ever ended up using Beat Cop. Mostly I've been letting the Ladies of Lament do the heavy lifting, with Lilith tributing anything dumb enough to go up against her, and Loris resetting all my traps for continued Virus and Magic Cylinder torture. One of my proudest moments with Lair was when I made someone surrender with just the field spell, Loris, and Grinning Grave Virus. The field spell let me use their monster for Grinning Grave, and Loris reset it back onto the field, thus making an endless cycle they couldn't break haha
i use lair of darkness with superpoly and since it turns everything into dark
@@Nonpain Lair definitely pairs really well with Starving Venom Fusion Dragon because of that.
Totally agree on this, and have for a long time.
I don't mind strong boss monsters, but if the boss monster is strong, it can't be accessible to every deck, because then it's just going to outperform most decks in-archetype boss.
I don't mind generic cards either, but if the monster is generic, it can't be super strong, because otherwise the same problem.
if the card is JUST strong but not super generic, then it's only a tool for particular decks, or even just one deck.
If a card is JUST generic but not super strong, then it can be played widely, but it doesn't warp the entire meta around it.
Definitely agree. I want the game to be fun, and generic boss monsters take away from the fun
You hit the nail on the head man, something I couldnt quite put my finger on.
I've been tired of generic extra deck monsters for the better part of a decade. They should either be not generic or weak in terms of ways to get rid of them.
Monsters where they got this right are: Dingirsu who isn't broken unless he's in his own archetype which can cycle him and use him to cycle other Orcust monsters as the lynch pin of the engine (plus that additional summon mechanic with an Orcust Link is cool); Galaxy-Eyes Photon Lord is a generic Rank 8 monster effect negate, but you get additional effects depending on how you manipulate the materials with Photon and Galaxy monsters; Borrelend is a generic multi-attacker with big attack points, but has an interruption-extending effect that requires Rokkets in grave. I'm fine with generic Extra Deck boss monsters, but I prefer when you get a big benefit for playing them in their own archetype as intended. A bad example is Dark Matter Dragon. Galaxy decks, especially now with the LIGHT locks, didn't need the card. But generic dragon decks loved it.
So true, I think a format where you play 'pure' decks and I mean PURE are way more fun and go beyond turn 2. I honestly think most decks have built in nerfs. The Mannadium boss monster isn't a towers omni negate (also the card looks awesome). The main Fire Kings (in archetype) strategy is just a once per turn board wipe (with some follow up) yet that deck is nearly tier 0. Pure deck builds allow both players to actually play the game.
If only huh
/cries in my pure infernity deck
I totally agree....things like S:P and Accesscode Talker kind of take the spotlight away from archetype boss monsters. They need to make extra deck monsters less generic and more archetype specific. Also, this is probably a very unpopular take, but I really miss Normal monsters being good :P It's probably just nostalgia but I miss playing my old DM deck with a bunch of Gemini Elves and Luster Dragons XD
Konami hasnt made a 3k four star vanilla, so im keeping my hopes up 😂
@@traplover6357 XD
The annoying part is that those cards have archetypes and yet are generic for no reason.
Accesscode is a major offender for this exact reason! On the other hand, there are tons of deck archetypes that dont accomplish much on their end boards other than spamming a bunch of mons. All these decks would lack a great finisher/endboard if it wasnt for Appolousa/Accescode/Chaos Angel/Borreload Savage/Baronne
This has been a major complaint of mine since I got back into the game 4 years ago. I found that nearly everyone's end board was exactly the same. The generic extra deck monsters, for the most part, are just better than the archetype specific extra deck monsters which doesn't make any sense to me.
Seeing a deck end of baronne, dweller and appo is so tired and boring, i like when decks actually have their own boss monsters that only they can use. I really like evolzar lars for instance because it's technically generic but it gets waaaay more value in it's home deck
I think the annoying part is that archetype bosses are usually kinda bad. Then you have my dear chaos angel whose generic even though its the boss for chaos synchro. It didn't need to be so generic. Chaos cards might be inherently semi generic but the synchro's like chaos ruler and especially chaos angel did not need to be generic. They are chaos cards.
But Chaos _is_ inherently generic, Light and Dark are two out of only six available attributes (and the two with the best cards among them to boot).
Chaos Angel kind of sucks as a boss monster anyway. You need to be in a really solid position to summon him going first and even then, that doesn't provide any interruption and only making him with Darks isn't worth it (I remember one time in Master Duel's Light & Dark event where my Labrynth opponent made it and I summoned Tenyi Draco Masters to just blow it up).
@@xCorvus7x
It’s that Mindset that Lead to the Banlist in the First place when CHAOS DECKS dominated the DM era Format before GX.
@@danielramsey6141 Mindset? What do you mean?
@@xCorvus7x there’s actually 7 attributes, you’re forgetting DIVINE
@@natedog8281 I don't like lumping Divine in with the common six.
Fundamentally, Divine is not really an attribute like Light, Wind, Water, Fire, Earth, or Dark(ness), and the word Divine is used to describe a host of monsters that have nothing to with the Egyptian Gods. Divine is not an attribute like the common six but the absence of those. It's rather that in case of the Divine Beasts, the question „what is your attribute? is it Light, Wind, Water, Fire, Earth, or Dark?“ is answered with no.
In other words, the Gods are special and their attribute - if such a common term is even apt to speak of them - is not really available either (e. g. there are six Divine monsters at most, and there are only two pieces of Divine support: The True Name and Mound of the Bound Creator).
On one hand I enjoy cards being generic, cause it reminds me of the good old days of opening a pack and pulling cards that you could actually use in whatever deck, but I also see your point and strongly agree that some of these extra deck monsters being generic and as powerful as they are can be frustrating. In my experience I face off against Mannadium a lot and its always just Barronne, SP Little Knight, Apollousa, and maybe a Dis Pater / Chaos Angel, give or take a Fenrir and yeah it can get exhausting having to out those kind of boards.
I really like the jet dragon type of restriction, it only works if you have a blue eyes in the grave. So you have to play a brick to use him in other decks. He is still good on blue eyes and even dragon decks, but he isnt splashable in any deck easily
Generic extra deck monsters should always be limited to cards that are easy to summon but have a lower power budget. I think Starving Venom Fusion Dragon is a really good example of a generic done really well. No strategy (at least meta strategy) will try to focus a deck around it, and you are always better having your boss monster on the board, but it's super easy to bring out and can get you out of sticky situations. It's a good card to have around, it comes out every once in a while for a big play, but it never defines the decks it's in.
I hate generic extra deck cards. It's okay if they aren't game changing, but stuff like Zeus and Baronne annoy me
Saying u bad at the game without say it
@@peteryanes3413 people who have to go out side their archtypes are bad
Just use crackdown and steal Zeus from them 😂
I honestly feel the same way. It annoys me when a deck has Extra deck monsters, but the optimal strategy doesn’t use them. Thats one reason I play Plunder. I play a few generic ED monsters like Almiraj, SP or Typhoon but the rest of my ED is all Plunder monsters
I think one of the advantages of everyone playing the same extra deck monsters is the saving of time after your turn and just more fluid play. When someone drops a bunch of boss monsters, I'm not familiar with I have to go through and read each one to identify how to play against it properly. Which with how long and complicated card text can be in Yu-gi-oh this can be a boring and complicated process. Not to mention that amount of people who will get frustrated while you do it, and or if you ask for a brief description people will either leave out details that come up out of sake for time or out of malice. So having a card I know all the ins and outs of pop up on the field streamlines the game play even when facing a new deck to an extent. All of this does not take away from your criticisms just adds a new viewpoint to the mix. We all know Yu-gi-oh players hate to read.
The thing with generic Extra Deck monsters is this: They were not made to avoid the need of players working about strategy/combos. They were made to break/overcome the limitations of specific Archetypes, Strategies and combos, to be used mainly when Combos, Strategies created/worked by a player revolving around specific Archetypes, etc. just stop working or being actually viable.
0:04 i couldnt agree more
i agree, i try to limit myself to a archetype or theme.
currently im Fully Focused on a Yusei Fudo theme
How’s your 60 card synchron pile looking? 😂
I’ll have you know if my Junk Speeder didn’t get ashed I’d win everytime
I have an Igknights-powered deck that is an engine to bring out Zubaba General and a few other cards. Sticking to the fire/warrior theme was a great challenge and I mostly kept to it, only having a few of my pet tech cards in for good measure. It can feel like an older school beatdown experience while employing XYZ and pendulums and link monsters. If Salamangreat synergized, I would already have a deck for it too.
Eventually I will have a level-5 Igknight deck and a level-6 Igknight deck as other experiments, but next up will likely be a Metalfoes deck.
@@luisavalos4415Imagine using Genex Controller. That is still a primary tuner for even the Superheavy Samurai deck I have. It was my primary way to summon Superheavy Samurai Stealth Ninja when I set up a deck to even do so. I like the challenge of sticking to a theme but sometimes you work with what you have, and that can end up being better, or more fun. It is difficult for me to adjust some of my decks because of that fun factor, even with the drawback of moderate loss rates. When they pop off, it is like Christmas, every time!
The emphasis and reliance of the extra deck kinda blocks off the fun of improvising and giving that rogue-like “maybe this is the run” feel other card games give.
The way YGO uses it is really damn cool and defining, but it’s reached a point of exhaustion, inaccessibility, and stifling future potential.
I think fusion and synchro retroactively were kinda peak, as much as I love XYZ card designs and concepts
Nothing is more disheartening than seeing a deck or engine you rarely if ever see and think “wow, I’ve never seen this combo, I wonder what it will do?” Then it turns out to just be “extra deck good stuff deck number 2467” with no identity outside of being a less efficient way to get to the materials for the boss monsters.
Always so true, and have always been my biggest problem with Modern Yu-Gi-Oh! ever since coming back through Master Duel!
Nobody likes losing lol. And unlike other games, with yugioh the difference in strength of cards is just waaayyyy too unrelenting. You either get stomped and stopped like a brick wall, or you give into the heavy feeling of "if you cant beat em join em" lol. Sadly it becomes pointless to play my favorite deck and end on a boss monster that 'gains attack during the damage step' or something, when those same resources used can give me a non targetable boss that cant be attacked, is non smellable, non tasteable, can double backflip and call your mother dirty names at the same time, omni negate who can be used once per chain. And thats how you end up with 10 'decks' in the meta who really only swap out 9-12 engine cards and run the same other 28 splashable broken cards and 15 extra deck.
I agree 100%. I was looking at playing different decks, and the final board was usually "Summon generic ED monsters."
I wanted a deck that had in-archetype boss monsters, so now I plat Traptrix :)
EDIT: I also play Abyss Actors, but one of that deck's strategies, especially going first, is still make generic ED monsters.
Finally talking about the main problem in Yu-Gi-Oh
Greatest vid ever i agree ( i just started watching it)
I just finished I %100 agree
They do this to sell sets so that every deck needs to get the most recent card(s).
Sell some sets short term, you mean but long term it hurts them and us.
If they had 150 of each currently generic 1 card for different types and attributes and archetypes (just with conditions or effects more fitting thematically for the thing in question) they would make way more money long term because more sets would be somewhat valuable to different groups, the game would be more balanced, and you wouldn't see 100 dollar cards because now people aren't vying for one card for every deck.
Power creep can't be stopped but we're like 50 years ahead of where we "needed" to be and there is no excuse for it from a player or company standpoint except "shareholders are retarded" which is why they should be illegal for non-start ups.
Shareholders don't care about the company or the actual consumers of the product. Listening to them is bad 100% of the time.
This perfectly describes my issues with generic extra deck monsters. It's not so much that Barone De Fleur, Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer or Borreload Savage are powerful cards, but its as you mentioned, they take away from one of the fun things about Yugioh.
There's so many different decks you could build and have their own unique strategies, which if used correctly, can work out greatly. I do use Access code and Borreload Savage, but only in my Cyberse and Rokket decks specifically, because I don't want other decks that can link and synchro summon to become reliant on a generic card, because each deck has its own Flare that makes it tick.
Now obviously some decks are just better than others, or are just very hard to beat. But to me, it's more fun to play with cards within the archetype, though even when I do use generic extra deck monsters, they won't be my MAIN go to. Like my Endymion deck uses Magician of Hope, but it doesn't NEED him in every situation to win.
For me there's a difference between, throwing in a card that works well and your deck NEEDING that one card in order for it to work
This is why I like the gold sarc deck. Not only is it nostalgic, but it can set up a real decent board without any outside cards and ESPECIALLY no extra deck. That might change though since it can run dark magician stuff now, but there ain't no way I'm gonna use too many "staples" outside maybe 1 apollousa that I won't even summon 9 times out of 10.
I think branded is a good example of an in-archetype ED. Most that space is used for it's engine pieces and boss monsters that no other deck sees except maybe mudragon, and garura which are just superpoly targets.
Biggest reason I step out of YGO.
I’ve been enjoying using Illusion and Flame Swordsman, yes the former can summon the Predaplant fusion, but it actually does more than 1 thing, god forbid, simple solution is to make more archetypal ED monsters that are somewhat usable
Is it wrong to feel bad for pendulums cards?
Solfachord and Vaylantz seem cool, but they're stuck behind such a odd summoning mechanic😂
Solfachord is my favorite pendulum deck and it makes me sad they aren't better. They have such beautiful artwork and I like their playstyle.
They finally got a better boss monster which is nice, but they need more. You could make every main deck monster have a Extra deck version. A scale 0 to summon Cutia.
But seeing how pendulums are treated I'm not gonna hold my breath 😅 but a guy can dream.
I always imagined that they could have boss monsters similar to D/D/D with them being Extra deck pendulums.
Pendulums aren't even broken anymore. They deserve more.
I think they are a necessary evil for off-meta decks or hell, jank decks. I love me some under appreciated decks/archetypes but some don't have a boss monster like Harpies. They are seen as trash tier yet are incredibly effective in building a board yet you got nothing to build towards.
The solution to this problem to me is make better Archetype boss monsters -- that's it. If people are using the generic monsters more, then your archetype bosses just aren't good enough. I know some break away from that to be different but they could totally make a few variants to each boss monster so people can be less predictable.
The other thing is too, there are lot of decks that don't get new support cards and so generic cards to help them but like you said maybe they could be a little less generic and focus on say a monster type or attribute so it can be generic for a few decks but not all decks.
I understand having certain extra deck monster be a little more generic, like say Number 38, or Ultimaya Tzolkin, to make your end board slightly better. But when the end goal is pretty much to just end on these generic stuff, then the game just loses its fun for me. Generic extra deck monster should at best just be "better have this along my archetype's boss monsters on the field just to be extra careful", not be the boss monsters of every single deck. This is why I prefer to play Yu-Gi-Oh casually with pure decks, like pure Melodious or pure Blue-Eyes. I can end my board on my own archetype's boss monsters and be fine.
Totally not me ignoring Baronne/Chaos Angel to summon prime-heart in Mannadium
Idk if this counts but I hate Accesscode. So often I feel like I couldve had very nice duels but every time either I or my opponent links off his leftover monsters to an Accesscode and end the game for no reason. Anyone else feel like this? Same kind of goes for Apollousa too
Ye I just finished watching the video and I 100% agree with literally anything he said. I was also thinking putting cards like Baronne to 0/0 ATK/DEF
Was always an issue with link monsters since borrelsword. Every single deck can otk out of nowhere
Yeah feeling this. Having my Madolche board and just nuking almost everything just to have one Madolche Monster and an Apollousa felt horrible to do
If you’re facing off against cards like “Accesscode Talker”, chances are you weren’t facing off a good Deck to begin with.
@@Ninjagospinjitzu22 There is no way you just said and meant thisskdjlfkhjnbnk
I've been at the point for a while where if I see Barrone de Fleur or Borreload Savage Dragon I instantly DC.
YES! I wish I got to this video sooner. I said this all the time, one of the BIGGEST problems Modern yugioh is facing is just generic Extra deck "utility belt" to summon in ANY deck to deal with your opponent.
Your strategy fails? Eh bring out accesscode and OTK
Your opponent has a spell or trap that's causing trouble but you don't have in-archetype removal? Eh bring out Knightmare monster
Your opponent worked REALLY HARD to bring out an unaffected monster (Cyberdark End Dragon)? Eh just Underworld of closed world it away (A KAIJU THATS ALWAYS AVAILABLE BTW, DONT EVEN NEED TO SEARCH IT)
As a returning player, I can't agree more. I am astonished time and time again at the amount of extra deck cards that completely shut down the game in the course of 1 turn. Its just not fun
This is something my mate and I have had since all the way back in Synchro era (where it was a significantly lesser issue compared to today), and is why we place some pretty heavy personal restrictions on ourselves when we're making archetype focused decks for our casual play. We do our best to avoid using Generic Extra Deck Monsters as much as possible, only filling in gaps that either fit the deck's theme or helps the deck in a more general way (that is, it's a tool not an end-game card, like King of Feral Imps in Reptile Decks) when we have don't have enough extra deck monsters for the archetype to fill up the extra deck (and even then we don't always fill up our extra deck).
It might not be so bad if things were still more like how they were in the Synchro era where most Generic Extra Deck Monsters weren't over-powered and were more clearly designed to be used in combination with the base deck itself (think, Colossal Fighter works in any warrior heavy deck, strong but not overpowered, is a big beat stick that gets bigger but has a simple effect to balance it out). I don't really pay attention to the competitive scene anymore, but I imagine there really isn't any more generic style decks anymore like there used to be back when I played in locals regularly. No more generic plants, no more earth warriors. Only decks that run one or two archetype engines purely to speed run a bunch of unrelated generic extra deck god cards that have high attack, a bunch of negates, and/or immunity to effects/targeting/destruction because Konami is too lazy to properly design and attempt to balance the game.
And I'm still waiting on some archetypes that were severely underpowered on release to actually get some damn support! My Venom and Jurrac decks need some fresh blood, by the love of Ra!