This is our first time seeing this video, testing our 6mm ARC sizing die. We’re late to the party, that’s for sure. Note: we’ve set the drop in Mandrel to increase bullet tension to .002 to .003 depending on the brass spring back. Thank you for the review and testing Jeremiah. We appreciate. Wayne Mighty Armory
Wayne, Thank you for the kind words, we purchase a lot of our equipment and rifles and therefore a lot of the stuff used is not seen by the manufacturer it's another way we stay unbiased and provide honest reviews. We greatly appreciate you providing the information on the update to the 6mm Arc sizing dies and look forward to using your dies more often in our testing the 6mm ARC die was quite impressive. --Jeremiah
Great video content as always. I've done quite a bit of reading on the 6mm ARC and from everything I've read and now watched in your video, the 6mm ARC is definitely an efficient little round, for only using charge weights in the mid to upper 20gr. range and heavy for caliber bullets. I'd like to see a future video showing how well it performs, or maintains accuracy at ranges where you can stretch it's legs a bit. 👍
Thank you very much we greatly appreciate you taking the time to watch this episode! It is a very efficient little cartridge, It impressed me with it's overall consistency and it seems to bring a lot of performance to the table in a small package. With standardized brass and pressure levels. I would love to stretch this cartridges legs a little bit! I do plan on doing more videos at longer ranges in the near future most notably will be an upcoming video on the 28 Nosler vs 7mm Rem mag. That should be a very interesting video, hopefully we'll have it posted by the end of this month. I do have to return this particular rifle to Patrick but perhaps in the future i'll get my own and we can run it out to 800 yards or something. At any rate thank you for the suggestion it is always nice to hear what others have to say! --Jeremiah
Wow! Those ES & SD #'s are insanely consistent. I shot a fly on a target once. At 25 yards with a .17 HMR. Had just got done zeroing in. And I know I hit it because there was fly parts sticking to the paper around the hole. Legs, wings, etc. You should ask your dad for a bigger clothing allowance. Your shirt sleeves are looking a little tattered! 😂 Great job, Jeremiah!
I thought that was worth pointing out! Certainly very interesting. I am jealous! one day I am going to shoot one of those pesky things! That is awesome you have an accurate rifle if you can hit a fly! Ha ha Ha That made my day! I always blow out the right elbow from shooting and dragging it along the bench under recoil! I do need a few shirts maybe we can convince him to get some Handloader TV shooting shirts made up! Thanks so much for watching and the continued support it is greatly appreciated! --Jeremiah
I have gotten some really good groups with my AR-15 in 6 arc shooting 58 gr vmax, 70 gr. Speer match bullets using cfe-223, also LT-30 powder. My AR HAS A 20" Seekins barrel and a triggertech go button
Thank you for sharing your experience and results with the cartridge we greatly appreciate it and feel it adds a lot of value to the comments section! --Jeremiah
Have you looked at the 25-45 Sharps? It has the 5.56 bolt face and I'm loading 80 grain ttsx to 3000 fps and loads up to 120 grain bullets with Ram Tac and cci 41 primers. This caliber is the balistic twin of the 6.5 Grendel in those bullet weights. Staying with the AR 15s designed bolt face is in my opinion ( a good idea)! You start milling out metal its going to be weaker!!!
I have only looked into it I have not ever fired or loaded any 25-45 Sharps at this time. That sounds pretty fast especially compared to the Grendel I have a video coming out soon on the 6.5 Grendel and I don't think anything broke 3,000 FPS in our testing without hitting pressure first. Maybe that is the key though higher maximum average pressure with the 25-45 Sharps due to the smaller bolt face. The 22 and 24 Nosler have similar concepts they have rebated rims so you can maintain the same bolt face for 223/5.56 both neat cartridges that folks seem to under appreciate. I agree on the strength of the 6.5 Grendel bolts but if you are staying within pressure and using a well manufactured bolt you should have no issues other than normal wear and tear. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV I have not looked at the 22 or 24 Noslers. Ammo is to expensive and rare in my area. I like stuff I can make from available brass I/e 223/5.56 NATO and 308/7.62 NATO and I like using bolt dimensions as designed. Brass is easy to play around with, steel not so much. I have blown out 308 blanks to make 8mm mauser brass and necked down 308 to 7mm-08, 260 Remington and 243 Winchester. I have even fire formed 458 SOCOM from cut down 308 blanks. They look funny but they will function. So the 25-45 Sharps is right up my alley. 5.56 brass is everywhere!😉
That powder does very well as far as ES and SD goes I almost always get good results with it! I really really like H-4895 it is a favorite of mine! I agree with you I did play with seating depths a little bit, that did not make it into the finished video for times sake but I think if I were to go back and work in .003" increments I could get that load to shoot ragged 1 hole groups the rifle seems more than capable. Thanks for watching!! --Jeremiah
At least he did show the variation in pressures from AR platform to bolt action. I do not have that issue with my 308. Good to go best load for my CMMG AR10 type platform and my bolt action. This is a safety issue and a non starter for the Gendels and the ARC platforms.
Indeed the pressure levels for the AR vs the bolt action is quite a bit and one has to be very careful about what pressures you are loading to. Especially if you have both an AR and bolt action you don't want to mix up those loads. It is a big issue for a lot of folks the bolts are just not strong enough to hold up to more pressure. The larger the case head the more bolt thrust that is created. Great point and thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! We strive to provide the best information possible in an easy watch and understand format. --Jeremiah
There are many wildcat cartridges that are similar to the 6mm ARC is there one in particular you would like to see such as the 6mm AR or the 6mm Grendel? I am open to the idea of adding those to the list provided there is enough interest in the subject. Of course it would be quite a ways down the road as we have quite a few projects to do. Thank you for watching -- Jeremiah
Build you an AR version, I built a 20" 6 ARC AR, but I have a 1-7 twist on mine, not the normal 1-7.5, it has really helped with the Berger 115 VLD Target in mine. If I do my part I have shot a couple of sub MOA groups at 600 with it. Most are MOA for me as I am still learning the tricks for long range shooting.
I am really thinking about it! After reading Patrick's article on the cartridge and working up my own loads for it I am impressed! I will have to look into the twist rates I like the sound of a 115 grain Berger and sub MOA groups at 600 Yards!! Thank you for taking the time to share your experience with the cartridge and for watching the video! --Jeremiah
Great job Jeremiah, the flys here in Cochise county like to bite your ear just as you squeeze the trigger, lol. That thing you spoke of on the barrel that tells about the heat of the barrel, can we buy that to put on our rifle? It would certainly be nice to put on the 28 Nosler, I spend more time at the range waiting for the barrel to cool off than I do shooting the rifle. I definitely have to try out your favorite powder, Great groups, ES and SD. I’ve been using Mighty Armory sizing dies for my 308 and 6.5 CM for sometime now, the concentricity on the brass is outstanding. I emailed them and begged him to make the die in 28 Nosler, he said sometime in the future if the cartridge is popular enough. Got my first brick of large rifle primers in 1.5 years, unfortunately a limit of one CCI 34, but that will keep the rifles warm for a while. Be Safe and Stay Free...God Bless You
Thank you for the kind words, I thought that folks may get a kick out of that fly on the target and my foul up! That would be terrible our flys bite but thankfully it is quite infrequent! That is a very cool product it is basically a sticker that you place on the side of your barrel from BarrelCool you can purchase them on their website. It seems to be accurate and it does a good idea of giving you a rough idea of how hot your barrel is. I must admit I was impressed with the Mighty Armory dies and I would like to try more of them out in the future. The concentricity is quite impressive on par with most match dies and that coating to make sizing so smooth is really something else! I would love a die in 28 Nosler those big cases always feel a little rough when sizing compared to smaller short action cartridges. I keep hoping that the current situation improves it does seem like it is getting slightly better hopefully by next year we will start to see things ease off but I think sadly history is also doomed to repeat itself. thanks so much for watching and all the support! God Bless you as well good sir! --Jeremiah
Glad you enjoyed it and found it informative, thank you for watching!! Sadly the bench is a Konig Jager Super Bench and the company that produced that bench is no longer in business. Which is a shame because it is an excellent bench. The only other bench I recommend aside from making a concrete bench is the Stukey's Sturdy shooting benches which are portable and very sturdy. I hope that helps if you have any further questions don't hesitate to ask! --Jeremiah
Anemic charge weights and velocities for a 26" bolt gun. Bullet jump would be a lot more useful information than COAL. Free bore varies wildly from different barrel makers in this cartridge.
Some of them are a little light like the charge using LeverEvololution but the charge using accurate 2230 is pretty stout, there are many more loads available on our website Loaddata . com just type in 6mm ARC and you can see them all. I think that might be a good column to add for future videos and that may be something we will have to add. It definitely does vary quite a bit. Generally speaking the thicker jacketed bullets like the Accubond liked more jump and the thinner jacketed bullets like the bergers liked less jump. Thank you for watching and for the suggestion! --Jeremiah
Another cartridge I wanted to wildcat at one time is the 30AR. I think it could be a good parent case for some small bore speedsters 22cal up to 25cal.
That would be very interesting, that is a cartridge that has not gotten much love, I think it would be interesting as a 22 cal Wildcat, It would be interesting to see what kind of performance you could get out of that case. --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV All one has to do is look at the capabilities of the 6mm ARC, then add at least another 150fps. but likely more, as well as 200yds+ of effective range and you've got yourself one very capable 1500yd(+?) cartridge. The dimensions are identical to that of a shortened 7.5X55 Swiss. The dimensions are also that of a shortened 284 Winchester, without the redated rim. I drew up a 6mm wildcat on the 30AR case quite awhile back, but I have not sent the drawing to have reamer and gauges made....YET!😉
@@stevepuyear2738 I must admit that sounds quite impressive and that may make the fireforming and case forming all worthwhile. If you ever have a reamer or gauges made up you'll have to let us know and in the meantime I will have to look into it and see if we have room in our video production to squeeze that in! It sounds like an interesting cartridge! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV Thanks for your reply and interest in this concept cartridge. If I were to build brass for it I would use shortened 284Win. brass so the rim diameter would work with existing 0.473" bolt faces. Also I've developed and built rifles for 3 other wildcat cartridges. They are 6mm, 8mm, and 358. I have and own the reamers/gauges and would love to have someone do some testing with the 358cal wildcat. The one rifle that exists was built for a vary close friend that lives in Colorado. The rifle is a Post64 Mod70, controlled round push feed action, 26" stainless barrel. The stock is Winchester's walnut Featherweight, pillar and glass bedded. The gentleman has not had time to put any load development into the cartridge/rifle. I designed the cartridge and built the rifle them gifted him the rifle just days after the project was finished. If there is any interest from Handloader TV to build and chamber a rifle using my 358 wildcat, I would be all for the project. As it sits now, my friend owns the only rifle ever made in my 358cal wildcat chambering.
@@stevepuyear2738 You are very welcome I appreciate you sharing the information with us! That makes sense I could see that. I certainly want to get into testing more wildcats in the future! I think it would be a neat addition to the information we provide and I think a lot of folks would be interested in it. Sadly it is very time consuming compared to our load development videos and we have so many other projects I have no idea when we would have time to get around to it. I would love to keep in touch about it though and keep it in mind should an opportunity arise. I think the biggest challenge with wildcat cartridges right now is it's difficult to get brass and components as we don't have a stockpile of components dedicated to wildcat cartridges. I am hoping that gets better soon and then it will open a lot of doors for us when it comes to video production! Perhaps we could even cover some of yours. --Jeremiah
Really enjoyed this video Jeremiah. Informative and on point. Do you think using bags as opposed to a front rest has any benifits or is it just personal preference?
Glad to hear you enjoyed the video! Thank you so much for watching! We do our best to provide as much information as possible in an easy to watch and follow along format. That is a really good question and I would say that a really good front rest is just as good if not better than bags, especially the front rests used in F Class and stuff like that. However the front rests can be difficult to fit to the wide variety of different rifles we test here on the channel so I resort to using bags. The most important thing is that you are comfortable and that it is repeatable. So if you have a wide variety of rifles you test with different weights and forend sizes I think bags make the most sense, if you have a handful of rifles that you are testing and it's no problem to swap out components of a front rest to ensure a perfect fit then I think a good solid rest like the T-Rex from Rodzilla is a great option Ransom also makes some really nice front rests. Of course bags are also a much cheaper option than most of the good quality front rests out there. That's just my two cents, Thank you for watching! --Jeremiah
Thank you for the kind words and the feedback on the magazine. We try to get as much solid information as possible out there to the writers! The Shooting bench is actually a Konig Jager Super Bench. From what I understand they are no longer making these benches now sadly but I recommend Stuky's Sturdy Shooting benches now, they work great and are portable as well. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
The one I am using is a simple sticker from BarrelCool it seems to do a good job of giving you an idea of what your outside barrel temperature is without fussing with Thermometers and other things. Glad you enjoy them, thank you so much for watching and for all the support! It is greatly appreciated! --Jeremiah
Yeah with the video being nearly 30 minutes long we tried to cut some time out by shortening up the shooting a little bit. Perhaps next time we'll have to leave a little bit more time in there! It definitely helps speed things up though! Thank you for watching! --Jeremiah
I'd be interested in what everyone thinks about the 6mm arc vs 6.5 grendel, with regards to deer hunting. My son's first season will be this year. I'm going to start him with a 223. We live in Maine, so keeping shots inside it's effective range is not a problem. I'm pretty confident he'll outgrow the 223 by next year, and be ready for a more optimal hunting round. I built a 6.8 spc, to accompany my 30-30, and I have never had to let a deer walk because he was out of range. It's up close, and personal. Almost always within 100 yards. Would the 6mm arc, or 6.5 grendel, be worth the investment? The rifle has to be compact (18 inch max barrel, maybe 20), it makes it much easier in the thick. How does the recoil of these 2 compare to the 6.8?
As for me personally I like the 6mm ARC a lot and I know our own Patrick Meitin used his 6mm ARC to harvest Whitetail deer and according to him it performed quite well. With that said I am also a big fan of the 6.5 Grendel and I think it would make a great youth cartridge. I started out with a .260 Remington and to a 9 year old boy I could see how the recoil could be a little bit uncomfortable. I really don't think you could go wrong with either of them but the 6mm ARC should have slightly less recoil based on my experiences with both cartridges. I also think in that barrel length the 6mm ARC makes a little more sense. My experience with the 6.8 is somewhat limited but I would say the recoil of that is quite similar to the Grendel. Thanks for watching and great question! --Jeremiah
I would stay with the 6.8 SPC no hype! Look up Barnes load Data 16.5 inch barrel 2750 FPS 95 gr ttsx. Big money HORNADY geeks are tweaking and hyping these calibers but to me it is a huge red flag to have high pressure bolt action ammo possibly mixing into the AR platform. My 308 best loads work for both platforms much more safe and interchangeable.
So just retired and wanting to build a rifle that every time I go to the range my 100 and 200 yrd groups I just giggle to myself. I had a vudoo made and with the right ammo I can get a 10 shot group in half the size of a dime at 50yrd. I’m confused between the 6mm arc, 6mm bra, and the 6mm dasher. In your opinion which one do I want?
I’ve been wondering if the 6 ARC is exactly the same that a fellow developed out east, years ago, called 6AR Turbo? I have the gun, dies etc ready to go and would use some of your load data if that’s true. Do tell.
The 6mm ARC is indeed very similar to the 6mm AR, in fact there are many cartridges that are quite similar. However when it comes to load data that can become a bit tricky. As mentioned in the video there is two pressure levels for the 6mm ARC and I would not use any of these loads in a Gas gun these loads are only safe in a bolt action rifle. Now if you are shooting it in a bolt action by all means use the data that is what it is there for! Of course cross reference the data and start at minimum and work your way up to maximum. The case capacity difference between 6ARC and 6AR is only about 2 grains if memory serves me correctly so the data should be cross compatible. Thanks for watching and thanks for the great question! --Jeremiah
Thank you very much for the kind words. I would suggest picking a powder that will mostly fill the case with that bullet, with such a long bullet you are going to be eating a lot of case capacity because you'll be seating the bullet so deep to feed from the magazine or you'll have to single feed which in my opinion just doesn't make sense in a gas gun. LEVERevolution seems to be the powder in this particular cartridge I would suggest using that for the most performance in your particular application. There are other powders that should work well though CFE 223, H-4895 would be my other go to options. I also would recommend switching to a bullet with a Hybrid Ogive design, that should make it more resistant to bullet jump. Hopefully that helps you out best of luck with your handloading and shooting! --Jeremiah
@@mostrogolf22 CFE 223 and LEVERevolution are both ball powders but H-4895 is an extruded powder and also works well. If you are chasing velocity I would go with a ball powder, if you are looking for consistency and accuracy I would suggest and extruded powder. However good results can still be obtained from ball powder these are just general guidelines. --Jeremiah
Great question! I don't know what your budget is or what kinda rifle you want but we have a video coming out on the Howa Carbon Elevate chambered in 6.5 Grendel and it shot amazingly well! They chamber that rifle in 6mm ARC as well and that would be my first recommendation. We have a review of the rifles in 6mm ARC in our Varmint Rifles and Cartridges magazine as well. Hopefully that fits your budget! Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment!! --Jeremiah
Brownells sells Howa 6 arc mini barreled actions for about $400. That gets you the action, 20” threaded heavy barrel, bottom metal, trigger, and magazine. Just add a stock of your choice.
LEVERevolution powder would be a great place to start but I think any of the powders we used could yield good velocity in a bolt gun. Great question thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
Indeed there are a lot of groups that the first round, or the cold bore shot threw off the velocity numbers a bit. The loads we tested were performing very well in this cartridge and rifle combination. Thank you for taking the time to watch and comment! --Jeremiah
I do not know at this time but I sure hope so I think that would be awesome, I am a big fan of their mini action rifles especially with the bottom metal available from Oregunsmithing I think that really looks great and it removes external box magazines for an internal magazine which I really like. I think this cartridge would make for a great addition to their product line. --Jeremiah
We got it directly from the manufacturer it's a Konig Jager Super bench sadly they are out of business and quite rare these days. The only other bench we suggest these days is the Stukey's Sturdy shooting benches made by Royal Stukey. Those are really solid and portable benches. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
That is a good question, I am pretty sure Masterpiece Arms does make a LH bolt action if you like the rifle in this video. I also know Savage makes a nice left handed action as well. If you are looking to go the full custom route I recommend Finks Custom Gunsmithing, he made my one and only full Custom rifle and he did a fantastic job. Thanks for watching and great question! --Jeremiah
A lot of gun for a little bitty bullet with not that much speed. Why this over a 6BR/Dasher in a bolt action? They'll be a lot easier to find a load for too and Peterson, Lapua and Alpha make brass for it.
I think the reason is two fold the biggest one is the fact that it is optimized for use in an AR-15 and feeds and functions in the magazine. The second reason is the availability of factory loaded ammunition. At the time of this filming I don't think Lapua, Peterson or Alpha was making brass but I could be wrong. Other than that there is not much of an advantage to it over the 6BR or Dasher. Thanks for watching!! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV That’s what I’m saying, makes sense in an AR, but not really a bolt action. I was referring that those companies make brass for the BR and Dasher, not the ARC. This is Handloader TV, we don’t care about factory ammo! Keep it up, you’re doing good work. Just thought the ARC was a strange choice for a bolt action. Like 224 Valk in a bolt action when there’s tons of better 22 offerings.
@@MrMalicious5 Yeah the performance from the AR is pretty impressive but the bolt action not quite so impressive, it is nice that they give you higher pressure data for use in a bolt gun though at least then you can push the limits a bit and get peak performance from the cartridge. Oh my apologies I misread that! That is true and those companies make an excellent quality product!! The Dasher and BR family of wildcats are great performers for sure. I think you can come close to dasher performance in the ARC with the "bolt gun data" but If I recall correctly the dasher wins. To be honest my personal opinion of the .224 Valk is not a very good one but then again you know what they say about opinions! I agree though there are a lot of better 22 cal offerings. Even in the AR, I would take a 22 Nosler over 224 Valk any day of the week. Again though that is just me. --Jeremiah
If you’re talking long range, it’s all about higher BC and more efficient bullets. Check out Ron Spomer recent vid on it. He’s pretty good at explaining the ups and downs of it.
@@Threegunmaster This was just a load development video, I have not dove heavily into the external ballistics of this cartridge. With that said its way too easy to get lost in the weeds of external ballistics especially when you are talking energy, velocity, ballistic coefficients, wind drift Etc. You are also talking two different calibers which in my opinion makes them very different .243 Win uses a .243" diameter bullets and .308 Win uses a .308" diameter bullet. So they really are quite different in terms of bullet weight and profile. I can't speak to energy numbers off the top of my head but hopefully that helps. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
It is a very heavy rifle for sure but it's a great test platform for working up loads for and the load data and information about the cartridge capabilities are still relevant. If you are interested in the cartridge in a lighter weight rifle I would suggest checking our our video on the Howa Carbon Elevate, it's sub 5 pounds and we tested one in 6.5 Grendel but you can see the rifle performance for yourself in that video and view the 6mm ARC cartridge performance in this video and maybe that would be a good combination for you. I have pasted the link below. ruclips.net/video/cC_d23rEV24/видео.html I hope this helps you out and you can still find some useful and interesting information from our videos, if not I completely understand and we appreciate you at least checking us out! --Jeremiah
I doubt you’ve seen “alot” of bolts fail. The issue with bolt lug sheering in the Grendel was with the use of 5.56 bolts that were opened up and not heat treated and hardened. Been running a 243LBC for years at the max without issues. Stop regurgitating myths. Use the Satterlee 10 shot load development method and see where you end up…unless you have a pressure test barrel you’re not gonna know.
First off thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts on the matter and for watching the video. I have received pictures from subscribers over the years of many bolts used in the 6.5 Grendel that have failed, a quick google search will turn up many of these bolts. Of course I do not know how hot those loads actually were but I have also experienced this first hand and my bolt was properly heat treated. There is a reason for the Gas gun being set to a pressure maximum of 52,000 PSI. If you go above that pressure level you will increase wear and tear on your firearm. Now not all bolts are created equal and there are many out there that will hold up better than others but you still run the risk of prematurely damaging or wearing out your parts. As far as the Satterlee 10 shot load development method, It has been refuted by many, myself included. I have run many tests using the Satterlee 10 shot load development method and have had it fail to show an accuracy node. Here is the basic problem with it, 10 shots does not provide enough statistical data to arrive at a firm conclusion and in no way does it help determine pressure for a given cartridge. If you look at basic statistics you would see that there are way too many variables in the testing for 10 shots to prove or validate anything. keep in mind that we are effectivly controlling a mini explosion inside the chamber of our rifles. There are many variables that come into play. This method is in fact a regurgitated internet myth. Trust me I am the last person that wants to go around spreading internet rumors. I do my very best to squash those internet myths and share with people what works and provide them with good solid unbiased information. At any rate thank you again for watching and good shooting to you! -- Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV well thanks for the reply but Scott Satterlee has proven it works by taking the human error out of the equation if you use an accurate measure to validate velocity ie a Labradar and an accurate way to measure your powder charge. What are you using for a powder dispenser? I’m using AutoTrickler V3 on an FX-120i. The general consensus is that if you work your way back from a maximum published load you’ll find your high node that works. Eric Cortina uses this method and if you know who he is then you’ll know he’s doing something right. I’ll continue to follow those who succeed (not knocking you). Also with the Satterlee load to work the charge weight increments have to be small. Also your seating depth has a mode too, and the window can be as small as .006”.
@@DMHal01 Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts this is honestly what the comments are all about where we can come and have these kinds of cordial discussions and hopefully we can learn. I know that is what Scott used to do At the end of this comment I am going to paste a link to a recent video and you can watch and see that Scott himself has in fact changed his own methods and is even instructing others on this new method. This doesn't seem to be nearly as widely publicized as his 10 shot load development method. Be sure to read the video description and watch the video it is actually a two part video and I will post part two. it is certainly not the old 10 shot load development that has been pushed so hard for so long by so many. I think you will find the video very enlightening and informative. I use an Oehler 35P chronograph because it is the only chronograph on the market with a proof channel that actually allows you to calculate your margin of error in velocities and will actually inform you if the reading is poor. One day I will have to do a video on Chronographs. I do have the Labradar as well and in general it is quite accurate when set up properly but I find it slightly less reliable than the Oehler 35P in all honestly. As far as Powder goes I use an RCBS Matchmaster which is accurate to .02 grains and all loads are within .04 grains of actual listed charge weight which with most extruded powders is a kernel or two. I am also familar with Eric Cortina and his reloading methods as well. I am quite confident he does not run 10 shot load development and within those 10 or even 20 shots he has found a load that he is confident enough to take to nationals. I know for a fact there is a little more to his load development than that and I think it is similar to Scott Satterlee and his new method. No worries no, I don't take any offense to what you are saying, like I said I think that it is great that we can come here and have these discussion and we can learn from one another and learn what works and what doesn't work, or what works for you and what works for others. I agree with that, the seating depth node can be very small especially when working with high quality low tolerance barrels IE Brux, Proof and Bartlein to name a few. I think seating depth and ES has become the staple of load development. I just simply think it takes more than 10 shots to find that load confidently. In all honestly I wish it was that simple It would save me a lot of time and components for each of these videos because I have to shoot a lot more than 10 rounds per load it's usually somewhere around 25 per bullet and powder combo. Plus more for seating depth testing. I will post the link below this. Thanks for your cordial reply I really enjoy having these conversations it's nice to know what others think and how they feel about methods used. I hope that all my comments have come across as nothing but cordial. All the best --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV I agree with this last reply, I wasn’t completely clear on my methods and also that Scott’s 10SLD was taken out of context by the majority. The 10SLD only gets you in the ballpark and should only be used to help get you in the right direction but there’s more to it. I personally use a modified version where I do a 15SLD pack in .1gr increments. Now in reference to the RCBS Matchmaster, I did a test on that and the new Hornady auto charge Pro. The bad news is that they throw short of the input charge weight as a safety measure. For example, for a 6mm ARC load that I use, I’ll input 30.3gr of CFE223 and the scale will tell you it’s 30.3gr or in the case of the Hornady it’ll show 30.3 after it goes over for a brief second to 30.4 then it rounds down when it’s settled. Well when I purchased my FX120i and a lab certified 100g weight the results were interesting. I would show on average with the RCBS CM an average disparity of .06gr short and with the Hornady it could be as much as .08gr to .1gr on top of that, the machines are supposed to be accurate within 2/10 of a grain. So this means it can be off by more or less. So I’d really confirm that they’re working for your intended use. In a small cartridge it’s a big enough deal but for 300 WinMag no. As for the Labradar, it’s only consistent as long as I’m using a trigger mechanism. Also I have a real magnified micro sight with a reticle that I use to align the Labradar to the target. I’ll check out the video you’re recommending because it’s always good to learn and I’m not too proud to say I could be wrong or I could still learn.
@@DMHal01 It is always difficult to communicate over RUclips comments having a limited space to type out rather complicated replies, It would also be so helpful to be able to simply add pictures into these comments but I digress. That may be true there are a lot of people saying that the 10SLD is the end all be all. In my experience it has as much of a chance to reveal a node as it does to miss a node. Perhaps this is something that I should revisit and do a little more comparing and contrasting. I do know that the RCBS Matchmaster can be a bit finicky and the Hornady Auto Charge pro is only accurate to 1/10th of a grain (.1 grain). That is very interesting to hear about the RCBS Matchmaster I have a set of Certified check weights and 2 Matchmasters and both have always been within .02 grains. It has been awhile since I verified this though and perhaps I should double check once again it never hurts to check ones equipment from time to time. I know when using extruded powder I have had no problems trickling up 1 kernel at a time and it seems to be able to accurate and reliable and register each kernels weight as I trickle. I like the Labradar for the convenience sake and it is accurate but for our purposes we want to get the most accurate and consistent results with zero errors. I too use the trigger function and have even tried the microphone add on and I get perfect readings nearly every time but after 200 or so rounds it is not uncommon to have a velocity or two that seem off or inaccurate or it fails to trigger due to the rifle being suppressed. So that is the primary reason why I use the Oehler they have been making chronographs for a long time and their pressure testing equipment is the gold standard so it makes more sense to me to use them. Plus I like how the model 35 P has a proof channel to double check and ensure that the velocity reading is correct and there are no errors. I would be curious to get your thoughts on it. His new methods seem to make a lot more sense to me and I think it lines up more with what Eric does. That is a good way to be and I couldn't agree more! I am a very results driven person and I am always looking to learn from those results and make sure those results are as accurate as humanly possible. It is simply amazing how much I have learned since I started doing these videos, there are many thanks to go around to people like you who challenge me on methods and provide different insight into things and many great handloaders and ballisticians that have answered countless questions and spent countless hours on the phone with me discussing these things. There is always more to learn though and that is the important thing to never stop learning. --Jeremiah
You need to expand your horizons, take a target out, honey on it. Or jam and get back at 50 yds. Get your 22 long rifle out and go at it. And you can sing that old hillbilly song flies in the buttermilk shoe shoe shoe.
Ha ha, I would love to do that, perhaps that would be a good summertime video, although with our luck the algorithm would pull the video for being offensive or something! Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment! --Jeremiah
So what you could do, Is you could get a target, with flies printed on it. And still put Honey on the flies. And call it an accuracy Test on printed pests. Who knows how it would turn out it might be hilarious. But at least it would be a lot of fun. You can count on me and my friends doing this a couple times during the summer. And most of all it's flat out great training
We have a basic format for all of our videos, we talk about history, ballistics and or relevance in the intro, then we talk about the rifle we'll be loading for and then the Handloading. Then it's off to the range and back at the bench for the results of testing and final thoughts. Feel free to skip around to find the segments you are looking for, If we don't cover all of these things folks will inevitably ask about them in the comments so we try to cover as much as we can without making the video too long. Sometimes it's quite a balancing act! Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
We edited out the time in between shots so you weren't watching me adjust the bags, settle in, squeeze and work the bolt etc. Editing this stuff out greatly shortens the overall video sometimes by 10 minutes or more depending on how much shooting we do. This was a bit of a test in this video to see how style of editing works works and since then we now show working of the bolt. I would encourage you to check out some of our other videos they all show the working of the action provided it's no semi auto. Thanks for watching and for the feedback we greatly appreciate it and are always looking for ways to improve! --Jeremiah
This is our first time seeing this video, testing our 6mm ARC sizing die. We’re late to the party, that’s for sure. Note: we’ve set the drop in Mandrel to increase bullet tension to .002 to .003 depending on the brass spring back.
Thank you for the review and testing Jeremiah.
We appreciate.
Wayne
Mighty Armory
Wayne,
Thank you for the kind words, we purchase a lot of our equipment and rifles and therefore a lot of the stuff used is not seen by the manufacturer it's another way we stay unbiased and provide honest reviews. We greatly appreciate you providing the information on the update to the 6mm Arc sizing dies and look forward to using your dies more often in our testing the 6mm ARC die was quite impressive. --Jeremiah
I love the look of that chassis, they nailed it
Indeed it does look good, very ergonomic as well. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
I have a Masterpiece Arms custom competition rifle being built in 6GT, can't wait! Going to top it off with a Zeiss LRP S3 6-36x56
Out of my 243 W, l shot 95 gr Nosler partitions work awesome on deer-sized game and very accurate too.
Great video content as always. I've done quite a bit of reading on the 6mm ARC and from everything I've read and now watched in your video, the 6mm ARC is definitely an efficient little round, for only using charge weights in the mid to upper 20gr. range and heavy for caliber bullets. I'd like to see a future video showing how well it performs, or maintains accuracy at ranges where you can stretch it's legs a bit. 👍
Thank you very much we greatly appreciate you taking the time to watch this episode! It is a very efficient little cartridge, It impressed me with it's overall consistency and it seems to bring a lot of performance to the table in a small package. With standardized brass and pressure levels. I would love to stretch this cartridges legs a little bit! I do plan on doing more videos at longer ranges in the near future most notably will be an upcoming video on the 28 Nosler vs 7mm Rem mag. That should be a very interesting video, hopefully we'll have it posted by the end of this month. I do have to return this particular rifle to Patrick but perhaps in the future i'll get my own and we can run it out to 800 yards or something. At any rate thank you for the suggestion it is always nice to hear what others have to say! --Jeremiah
Wow! Those ES & SD #'s are insanely consistent. I shot a fly on a target once. At 25 yards with a .17 HMR. Had just got done zeroing in. And I know I hit it because there was fly parts sticking to the paper around the hole. Legs, wings, etc. You should ask your dad for a bigger clothing allowance. Your shirt sleeves are looking a little tattered! 😂
Great job, Jeremiah!
I thought that was worth pointing out! Certainly very interesting. I am jealous! one day I am going to shoot one of those pesky things! That is awesome you have an accurate rifle if you can hit a fly! Ha ha Ha That made my day! I always blow out the right elbow from shooting and dragging it along the bench under recoil! I do need a few shirts maybe we can convince him to get some Handloader TV shooting shirts made up! Thanks so much for watching and the continued support it is greatly appreciated! --Jeremiah
I have gotten some really good groups with my AR-15 in 6 arc shooting 58 gr vmax, 70 gr. Speer match bullets using cfe-223, also LT-30 powder. My AR HAS A 20" Seekins barrel and a triggertech go button
Thank you for sharing your experience and results with the cartridge we greatly appreciate it and feel it adds a lot of value to the comments section! --Jeremiah
My Arc loves CFE-223 and 95g nosler bt's
Have you looked at the 25-45 Sharps? It has the 5.56 bolt face and I'm loading 80 grain ttsx to 3000 fps and loads up to 120 grain bullets with Ram Tac and cci 41 primers. This caliber is the balistic twin of the 6.5 Grendel in those bullet weights. Staying with the AR 15s designed bolt face is in my opinion ( a good idea)! You start milling out metal its going to be weaker!!!
I have only looked into it I have not ever fired or loaded any 25-45 Sharps at this time. That sounds pretty fast especially compared to the Grendel I have a video coming out soon on the 6.5 Grendel and I don't think anything broke 3,000 FPS in our testing without hitting pressure first. Maybe that is the key though higher maximum average pressure with the 25-45 Sharps due to the smaller bolt face. The 22 and 24 Nosler have similar concepts they have rebated rims so you can maintain the same bolt face for 223/5.56 both neat cartridges that folks seem to under appreciate. I agree on the strength of the 6.5 Grendel bolts but if you are staying within pressure and using a well manufactured bolt you should have no issues other than normal wear and tear. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV I have not looked at the 22 or 24 Noslers. Ammo is to expensive and rare in my area. I like stuff I can make from available brass I/e 223/5.56 NATO and 308/7.62 NATO and I like using bolt dimensions as designed. Brass is easy to play around with, steel not so much. I have blown out 308 blanks to make 8mm mauser brass and necked down 308 to 7mm-08, 260 Remington and 243 Winchester. I have even fire formed 458 SOCOM from cut down 308 blanks. They look funny but they will function. So the 25-45 Sharps is right up my alley. 5.56 brass is everywhere!😉
The sd and es on load four was really good! I'd think you could tighten that group up with some seating depth testing.
That powder does very well as far as ES and SD goes I almost always get good results with it! I really really like H-4895 it is a favorite of mine! I agree with you I did play with seating depths a little bit, that did not make it into the finished video for times sake but I think if I were to go back and work in .003" increments I could get that load to shoot ragged 1 hole groups the rifle seems more than capable. Thanks for watching!! --Jeremiah
Enjoyed the video!
Glad to hear that, We always appreciate hearing the positive feedback from others it is greatly appreciated! --Jeremiah
At least he did show the variation in pressures from AR platform to bolt action. I do not have that issue with my 308. Good to go best load for my CMMG AR10 type platform and my bolt action. This is a safety issue and a non starter for the Gendels and the ARC platforms.
Indeed the pressure levels for the AR vs the bolt action is quite a bit and one has to be very careful about what pressures you are loading to. Especially if you have both an AR and bolt action you don't want to mix up those loads. It is a big issue for a lot of folks the bolts are just not strong enough to hold up to more pressure. The larger the case head the more bolt thrust that is created. Great point and thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! We strive to provide the best information possible in an easy watch and understand format. --Jeremiah
Great review of the cartridge..
Thank you very much for the feedback and taking the time to watch! --Jeremiah
Would love to see more data with a 24-26 inch barrel
Thank you 😊
No problem thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Absolutely love it. Can you get 80 and 90gr factory loads? What optimum velocities could be had with 80gr hand loads in bolt guns?
New with impproments of the old time case's twist being the biggest do some of the old ones in comparison please. :)
There are many wildcat cartridges that are similar to the 6mm ARC is there one in particular you would like to see such as the 6mm AR or the 6mm Grendel? I am open to the idea of adding those to the list provided there is enough interest in the subject. Of course it would be quite a ways down the road as we have quite a few projects to do. Thank you for watching -- Jeremiah
Build you an AR version, I built a 20" 6 ARC AR, but I have a 1-7 twist on mine, not the normal 1-7.5, it has really helped with the Berger 115 VLD Target in mine. If I do my part I have shot a couple of sub MOA groups at 600 with it. Most are MOA for me as I am still learning the tricks for long range shooting.
I am really thinking about it! After reading Patrick's article on the cartridge and working up my own loads for it I am impressed! I will have to look into the twist rates I like the sound of a 115 grain Berger and sub MOA groups at 600 Yards!! Thank you for taking the time to share your experience with the cartridge and for watching the video! --Jeremiah
Did you get the Ballistic Advantage barrel? that's what I bought and the more rounds I put through it the better my groups get
@@randycalvert1556 no, I got mine as part of a group buy with the 6.5 Grendel forum back in the day. He has them on his website now for sale too.
Great job Jeremiah, the flys here in Cochise county like to bite your ear just as you squeeze the trigger, lol. That thing you spoke of on the barrel that tells about the heat of the barrel, can we buy that to put on our rifle? It would certainly be nice to put on the 28 Nosler, I spend more time at the range waiting for the barrel to cool off than I do shooting the rifle. I definitely have to try out your favorite powder, Great groups, ES and SD. I’ve been using Mighty Armory sizing dies for my 308 and 6.5 CM for sometime now, the concentricity on the brass is outstanding. I emailed them and begged him to make the die in 28 Nosler, he said sometime in the future if the cartridge is popular enough. Got my first brick of large rifle primers in 1.5 years, unfortunately a limit of one CCI 34, but that will keep the rifles warm for a while. Be Safe and Stay Free...God Bless You
Thank you for the kind words, I thought that folks may get a kick out of that fly on the target and my foul up! That would be terrible our flys bite but thankfully it is quite infrequent! That is a very cool product it is basically a sticker that you place on the side of your barrel from BarrelCool you can purchase them on their website. It seems to be accurate and it does a good idea of giving you a rough idea of how hot your barrel is. I must admit I was impressed with the Mighty Armory dies and I would like to try more of them out in the future. The concentricity is quite impressive on par with most match dies and that coating to make sizing so smooth is really something else! I would love a die in 28 Nosler those big cases always feel a little rough when sizing compared to smaller short action cartridges. I keep hoping that the current situation improves it does seem like it is getting slightly better hopefully by next year we will start to see things ease off but I think sadly history is also doomed to repeat itself. thanks so much for watching and all the support! God Bless you as well good sir! --Jeremiah
Great job, can you provide information on your shooting bench. Thank you
Glad you enjoyed it and found it informative, thank you for watching!! Sadly the bench is a Konig Jager Super Bench and the company that produced that bench is no longer in business. Which is a shame because it is an excellent bench. The only other bench I recommend aside from making a concrete bench is the Stukey's Sturdy shooting benches which are portable and very sturdy. I hope that helps if you have any further questions don't hesitate to ask! --Jeremiah
Anemic charge weights and velocities for a 26" bolt gun. Bullet jump would be a lot more useful information than COAL. Free bore varies wildly from different barrel makers in this cartridge.
Some of them are a little light like the charge using LeverEvololution but the charge using accurate 2230 is pretty stout, there are many more loads available on our website Loaddata . com just type in 6mm ARC and you can see them all. I think that might be a good column to add for future videos and that may be something we will have to add. It definitely does vary quite a bit. Generally speaking the thicker jacketed bullets like the Accubond liked more jump and the thinner jacketed bullets like the bergers liked less jump. Thank you for watching and for the suggestion! --Jeremiah
The PPC’s at 80,000 PSI will never be SAAMI
Another cartridge I wanted to wildcat at one time is the 30AR. I think it could be a good parent case for some small bore speedsters 22cal up to 25cal.
That would be very interesting, that is a cartridge that has not gotten much love, I think it would be interesting as a 22 cal Wildcat, It would be interesting to see what kind of performance you could get out of that case. --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV All one has to do is look at the capabilities of the 6mm ARC, then add at least another 150fps. but likely more, as well as 200yds+ of effective range and you've got yourself one very capable 1500yd(+?) cartridge. The dimensions are identical to that of a shortened 7.5X55 Swiss. The dimensions are also that of a shortened 284 Winchester, without the redated rim. I drew up a 6mm wildcat on the 30AR case quite awhile back, but I have not sent the drawing to have reamer and gauges made....YET!😉
@@stevepuyear2738 I must admit that sounds quite impressive and that may make the fireforming and case forming all worthwhile. If you ever have a reamer or gauges made up you'll have to let us know and in the meantime I will have to look into it and see if we have room in our video production to squeeze that in! It sounds like an interesting cartridge! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV Thanks for your reply and interest in this concept cartridge. If I were to build brass for it I would use shortened 284Win. brass so the rim diameter would work with existing 0.473" bolt faces. Also I've developed and built rifles for 3 other wildcat cartridges. They are 6mm, 8mm, and 358. I have and own the reamers/gauges and would love to have someone do some testing with the 358cal wildcat. The one rifle that exists was built for a vary close friend that lives in Colorado. The rifle is a Post64 Mod70, controlled round push feed action, 26" stainless barrel. The stock is Winchester's walnut Featherweight, pillar and glass bedded. The gentleman has not had time to put any load development into the cartridge/rifle. I designed the cartridge and built the rifle them gifted him the rifle just days after the project was finished. If there is any interest from Handloader TV to build and chamber a rifle using my 358 wildcat, I would be all for the project. As it sits now, my friend owns the only rifle ever made in my 358cal wildcat chambering.
@@stevepuyear2738 You are very welcome I appreciate you sharing the information with us! That makes sense I could see that. I certainly want to get into testing more wildcats in the future! I think it would be a neat addition to the information we provide and I think a lot of folks would be interested in it. Sadly it is very time consuming compared to our load development videos and we have so many other projects I have no idea when we would have time to get around to it. I would love to keep in touch about it though and keep it in mind should an opportunity arise. I think the biggest challenge with wildcat cartridges right now is it's difficult to get brass and components as we don't have a stockpile of components dedicated to wildcat cartridges. I am hoping that gets better soon and then it will open a lot of doors for us when it comes to video production! Perhaps we could even cover some of yours. --Jeremiah
Really enjoyed this video Jeremiah. Informative and on point. Do you think using bags as opposed to a front rest has any benifits or is it just personal preference?
Glad to hear you enjoyed the video! Thank you so much for watching! We do our best to provide as much information as possible in an easy to watch and follow along format. That is a really good question and I would say that a really good front rest is just as good if not better than bags, especially the front rests used in F Class and stuff like that. However the front rests can be difficult to fit to the wide variety of different rifles we test here on the channel so I resort to using bags. The most important thing is that you are comfortable and that it is repeatable. So if you have a wide variety of rifles you test with different weights and forend sizes I think bags make the most sense, if you have a handful of rifles that you are testing and it's no problem to swap out components of a front rest to ensure a perfect fit then I think a good solid rest like the T-Rex from Rodzilla is a great option Ransom also makes some really nice front rests. Of course bags are also a much cheaper option than most of the good quality front rests out there. That's just my two cents, Thank you for watching! --Jeremiah
great video, love the magazine. That's one heck of a shooting bench, is it a custom job or for general sale?
Thank you for the kind words and the feedback on the magazine. We try to get as much solid information as possible out there to the writers! The Shooting bench is actually a Konig Jager Super Bench. From what I understand they are no longer making these benches now sadly but I recommend Stuky's Sturdy Shooting benches now, they work great and are portable as well. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
I saw Hornady might be releasing factory 80gr and 3020fps. Would that still work with 1:7 twist?
awesome video. What is the colour code of the chassis? Best regards from europe and looking forward to see more great vids
What where you using to determine barrel temps? Great videos, love to watch.
The one I am using is a simple sticker from BarrelCool it seems to do a good job of giving you an idea of what your outside barrel temperature is without fussing with Thermometers and other things. Glad you enjoy them, thank you so much for watching and for all the support! It is greatly appreciated! --Jeremiah
Fancy bolt action functions just like AR.
haha yep!
Yeah with the video being nearly 30 minutes long we tried to cut some time out by shortening up the shooting a little bit. Perhaps next time we'll have to leave a little bit more time in there! It definitely helps speed things up though! Thank you for watching! --Jeremiah
I'd be interested in what everyone thinks about the 6mm arc vs 6.5 grendel, with regards to deer hunting.
My son's first season will be this year. I'm going to start him with a 223. We live in Maine, so keeping shots inside it's effective range is not a problem. I'm pretty confident he'll outgrow the 223 by next year, and be ready for a more optimal hunting round. I built a 6.8 spc, to accompany my 30-30, and I have never had to let a deer walk because he was out of range. It's up close, and personal. Almost always within 100 yards.
Would the 6mm arc, or 6.5 grendel, be worth the investment? The rifle has to be compact (18 inch max barrel, maybe 20), it makes it much easier in the thick. How does the recoil of these 2 compare to the 6.8?
As for me personally I like the 6mm ARC a lot and I know our own Patrick Meitin used his 6mm ARC to harvest Whitetail deer and according to him it performed quite well. With that said I am also a big fan of the 6.5 Grendel and I think it would make a great youth cartridge. I started out with a .260 Remington and to a 9 year old boy I could see how the recoil could be a little bit uncomfortable. I really don't think you could go wrong with either of them but the 6mm ARC should have slightly less recoil based on my experiences with both cartridges. I also think in that barrel length the 6mm ARC makes a little more sense. My experience with the 6.8 is somewhat limited but I would say the recoil of that is quite similar to the Grendel. Thanks for watching and great question! --Jeremiah
6.5 Grendel, I was not impressed with at all
I like 257 Weatherby with a 31 inch barrel.
I would stay with the 6.8 SPC no hype! Look up Barnes load Data 16.5 inch barrel 2750 FPS 95 gr ttsx. Big money HORNADY geeks are tweaking and hyping these calibers but to me it is a huge red flag to have high pressure bolt action ammo possibly mixing into the AR platform. My 308 best loads work for both platforms much more safe and interchangeable.
Impressive velocity, matches factory 243
It is impressive, I really like this cartridge and I think it would be a lot of fun to do more with it in the future! --Jeremiah
Yea and not much recoil like the 243
So just retired and wanting to build a rifle that every time I go to the range my 100 and 200 yrd groups I just giggle to myself. I had a vudoo made and with the right ammo I can get a 10 shot group in half the size of a dime at 50yrd. I’m confused between the 6mm arc, 6mm bra, and the 6mm dasher. In your opinion which one do I want?
I’ve been wondering if the 6 ARC is exactly the same that a fellow developed out east, years ago, called 6AR Turbo? I have the gun, dies etc ready to go and would use some of your load data if that’s true. Do tell.
The 6mm ARC is indeed very similar to the 6mm AR, in fact there are many cartridges that are quite similar. However when it comes to load data that can become a bit tricky. As mentioned in the video there is two pressure levels for the 6mm ARC and I would not use any of these loads in a Gas gun these loads are only safe in a bolt action rifle. Now if you are shooting it in a bolt action by all means use the data that is what it is there for! Of course cross reference the data and start at minimum and work your way up to maximum. The case capacity difference between 6ARC and 6AR is only about 2 grains if memory serves me correctly so the data should be cross compatible. Thanks for watching and thanks for the great question! --Jeremiah
Nice work.... any tips for the 112s in a gas gun?
Thank you very much for the kind words. I would suggest picking a powder that will mostly fill the case with that bullet, with such a long bullet you are going to be eating a lot of case capacity because you'll be seating the bullet so deep to feed from the magazine or you'll have to single feed which in my opinion just doesn't make sense in a gas gun. LEVERevolution seems to be the powder in this particular cartridge I would suggest using that for the most performance in your particular application. There are other powders that should work well though CFE 223, H-4895 would be my other go to options. I also would recommend switching to a bullet with a Hybrid Ogive design, that should make it more resistant to bullet jump. Hopefully that helps you out best of luck with your handloading and shooting! --Jeremiah
Try Accurate 2520
And get a adjustable gas block, helps lighten recoil and increases bullet velocity
@@HandloaderTV Ok, so a ball powder.
@@mostrogolf22 CFE 223 and LEVERevolution are both ball powders but H-4895 is an extruded powder and also works well. If you are chasing velocity I would go with a ball powder, if you are looking for consistency and accuracy I would suggest and extruded powder. However good results can still be obtained from ball powder these are just general guidelines. --Jeremiah
Any reference for a budget 6mmarc bolt gun?
Great question! I don't know what your budget is or what kinda rifle you want but we have a video coming out on the Howa Carbon Elevate chambered in 6.5 Grendel and it shot amazingly well! They chamber that rifle in 6mm ARC as well and that would be my first recommendation. We have a review of the rifles in 6mm ARC in our Varmint Rifles and Cartridges magazine as well. Hopefully that fits your budget! Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment!! --Jeremiah
Brownells sells Howa 6 arc mini barreled actions for about $400. That gets you the action, 20” threaded heavy barrel, bottom metal, trigger, and magazine. Just add a stock of your choice.
What powder do you think will be best for velocity on a long barrel bolt gun?
LEVERevolution powder would be a great place to start but I think any of the powders we used could yield good velocity in a bolt gun. Great question thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
If you subtract that first cold bore shot ES drops to 9!!!
Indeed there are a lot of groups that the first round, or the cold bore shot threw off the velocity numbers a bit. The loads we tested were performing very well in this cartridge and rifle combination. Thank you for taking the time to watch and comment! --Jeremiah
Wonder if Howa is going to chamber this in their mini action?
I do not know at this time but I sure hope so I think that would be awesome, I am a big fan of their mini action rifles especially with the bottom metal available from Oregunsmithing I think that really looks great and it removes external box magazines for an internal magazine which I really like. I think this cartridge would make for a great addition to their product line. --Jeremiah
I have one in it
Brownell
Wher did you get that shooting bench ??
We got it directly from the manufacturer it's a Konig Jager Super bench sadly they are out of business and quite rare these days. The only other bench we suggest these days is the Stukey's Sturdy shooting benches made by Royal Stukey. Those are really solid and portable benches. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
Where do I go to get a lefty built? I have an AR style but I want a bolty, in LH
That is a good question, I am pretty sure Masterpiece Arms does make a LH bolt action if you like the rifle in this video. I also know Savage makes a nice left handed action as well. If you are looking to go the full custom route I recommend Finks Custom Gunsmithing, he made my one and only full Custom rifle and he did a fantastic job. Thanks for watching and great question! --Jeremiah
A lot of gun for a little bitty bullet with not that much speed. Why this over a 6BR/Dasher in a bolt action? They'll be a lot easier to find a load for too and Peterson, Lapua and Alpha make brass for it.
I think the reason is two fold the biggest one is the fact that it is optimized for use in an AR-15 and feeds and functions in the magazine. The second reason is the availability of factory loaded ammunition. At the time of this filming I don't think Lapua, Peterson or Alpha was making brass but I could be wrong. Other than that there is not much of an advantage to it over the 6BR or Dasher. Thanks for watching!! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV That’s what I’m saying, makes sense in an AR, but not really a bolt action. I was referring that those companies make brass for the BR and Dasher, not the ARC. This is Handloader TV, we don’t care about factory ammo! Keep it up, you’re doing good work. Just thought the ARC was a strange choice for a bolt action. Like 224 Valk in a bolt action when there’s tons of better 22 offerings.
@@MrMalicious5 Yeah the performance from the AR is pretty impressive but the bolt action not quite so impressive, it is nice that they give you higher pressure data for use in a bolt gun though at least then you can push the limits a bit and get peak performance from the cartridge. Oh my apologies I misread that! That is true and those companies make an excellent quality product!! The Dasher and BR family of wildcats are great performers for sure. I think you can come close to dasher performance in the ARC with the "bolt gun data" but If I recall correctly the dasher wins. To be honest my personal opinion of the .224 Valk is not a very good one but then again you know what they say about opinions! I agree though there are a lot of better 22 cal offerings. Even in the AR, I would take a 22 Nosler over 224 Valk any day of the week. Again though that is just me. --Jeremiah
What mags do the 6mm arc use??
Most folks recommend running 6.5 Grendel magazines for use in the 6mm ARC. Great question and thank you for watching! --Jeremiah
So why doesn't the 243 Winchester out perform the 308 Winchester like everyone says the 6mm arc does apparently
If you’re talking long range, it’s all about higher BC and more efficient bullets. Check out Ron Spomer recent vid on it. He’s pretty good at explaining the ups and downs of it.
@@hondas562 I do understand all that but the 308 still gets there and gets there accurately and hits harder
@@Threegunmaster This was just a load development video, I have not dove heavily into the external ballistics of this cartridge. With that said its way too easy to get lost in the weeds of external ballistics especially when you are talking energy, velocity, ballistic coefficients, wind drift Etc. You are also talking two different calibers which in my opinion makes them very different .243 Win uses a .243" diameter bullets and .308 Win uses a .308" diameter bullet. So they really are quite different in terms of bullet weight and profile. I can't speak to energy numbers off the top of my head but hopefully that helps. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
17 LBS WOW! IAM 75 YEARS OLD bye?
It is a very heavy rifle for sure but it's a great test platform for working up loads for and the load data and information about the cartridge capabilities are still relevant. If you are interested in the cartridge in a lighter weight rifle I would suggest checking our our video on the Howa Carbon Elevate, it's sub 5 pounds and we tested one in 6.5 Grendel but you can see the rifle performance for yourself in that video and view the 6mm ARC cartridge performance in this video and maybe that would be a good combination for you. I have pasted the link below. ruclips.net/video/cC_d23rEV24/видео.html
I hope this helps you out and you can still find some useful and interesting information from our videos, if not I completely understand and we appreciate you at least checking us out! --Jeremiah
I doubt you’ve seen “alot” of bolts fail. The issue with bolt lug sheering in the Grendel was with the use of 5.56 bolts that were opened up and not heat treated and hardened. Been running a 243LBC for years at the max without issues. Stop regurgitating myths. Use the Satterlee 10 shot load development method and see where you end up…unless you have a pressure test barrel you’re not gonna know.
First off thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts on the matter and for watching the video. I have received pictures from subscribers over the years of many bolts used in the 6.5 Grendel that have failed, a quick google search will turn up many of these bolts. Of course I do not know how hot those loads actually were but I have also experienced this first hand and my bolt was properly heat treated. There is a reason for the Gas gun being set to a pressure maximum of 52,000 PSI. If you go above that pressure level you will increase wear and tear on your firearm. Now not all bolts are created equal and there are many out there that will hold up better than others but you still run the risk of prematurely damaging or wearing out your parts. As far as the Satterlee 10 shot load development method, It has been refuted by many, myself included. I have run many tests using the Satterlee 10 shot load development method and have had it fail to show an accuracy node. Here is the basic problem with it, 10 shots does not provide enough statistical data to arrive at a firm conclusion and in no way does it help determine pressure for a given cartridge. If you look at basic statistics you would see that there are way too many variables in the testing for 10 shots to prove or validate anything. keep in mind that we are effectivly controlling a mini explosion inside the chamber of our rifles. There are many variables that come into play. This method is in fact a regurgitated internet myth. Trust me I am the last person that wants to go around spreading internet rumors. I do my very best to squash those internet myths and share with people what works and provide them with good solid unbiased information. At any rate thank you again for watching and good shooting to you! -- Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV well thanks for the reply but Scott Satterlee has proven it works by taking the human error out of the equation if you use an accurate measure to validate velocity ie a Labradar and an accurate way to measure your powder charge. What are you using for a powder dispenser? I’m using AutoTrickler V3 on an FX-120i. The general consensus is that if you work your way back from a maximum published load you’ll find your high node that works. Eric Cortina uses this method and if you know who he is then you’ll know he’s doing something right. I’ll continue to follow those who succeed (not knocking you). Also with the Satterlee load to work the charge weight increments have to be small. Also your seating depth has a mode too, and the window can be as small as .006”.
@@DMHal01 Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts this is honestly what the comments are all about where we can come and have these kinds of cordial discussions and hopefully we can learn. I know that is what Scott used to do At the end of this comment I am going to paste a link to a recent video and you can watch and see that Scott himself has in fact changed his own methods and is even instructing others on this new method. This doesn't seem to be nearly as widely publicized as his 10 shot load development method. Be sure to read the video description and watch the video it is actually a two part video and I will post part two. it is certainly not the old 10 shot load development that has been pushed so hard for so long by so many. I think you will find the video very enlightening and informative. I use an Oehler 35P chronograph because it is the only chronograph on the market with a proof channel that actually allows you to calculate your margin of error in velocities and will actually inform you if the reading is poor. One day I will have to do a video on Chronographs. I do have the Labradar as well and in general it is quite accurate when set up properly but I find it slightly less reliable than the Oehler 35P in all honestly. As far as Powder goes I use an RCBS Matchmaster which is accurate to .02 grains and all loads are within .04 grains of actual listed charge weight which with most extruded powders is a kernel or two. I am also familar with Eric Cortina and his reloading methods as well. I am quite confident he does not run 10 shot load development and within those 10 or even 20 shots he has found a load that he is confident enough to take to nationals. I know for a fact there is a little more to his load development than that and I think it is similar to Scott Satterlee and his new method. No worries no, I don't take any offense to what you are saying, like I said I think that it is great that we can come here and have these discussion and we can learn from one another and learn what works and what doesn't work, or what works for you and what works for others. I agree with that, the seating depth node can be very small especially when working with high quality low tolerance barrels IE Brux, Proof and Bartlein to name a few. I think seating depth and ES has become the staple of load development. I just simply think it takes more than 10 shots to find that load confidently. In all honestly I wish it was that simple It would save me a lot of time and components for each of these videos because I have to shoot a lot more than 10 rounds per load it's usually somewhere around 25 per bullet and powder combo. Plus more for seating depth testing. I will post the link below this. Thanks for your cordial reply I really enjoy having these conversations it's nice to know what others think and how they feel about methods used. I hope that all my comments have come across as nothing but cordial. All the best --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV I agree with this last reply, I wasn’t completely clear on my methods and also that Scott’s 10SLD was taken out of context by the majority. The 10SLD only gets you in the ballpark and should only be used to help get you in the right direction but there’s more to it. I personally use a modified version where I do a 15SLD pack in .1gr increments. Now in reference to the RCBS Matchmaster, I did a test on that and the new Hornady auto charge Pro. The bad news is that they throw short of the input charge weight as a safety measure. For example, for a 6mm ARC load that I use, I’ll input 30.3gr of CFE223 and the scale will tell you it’s 30.3gr or in the case of the Hornady it’ll show 30.3 after it goes over for a brief second to 30.4 then it rounds down when it’s settled. Well when I purchased my FX120i and a lab certified 100g weight the results were interesting. I would show on average with the RCBS CM an average disparity of .06gr short and with the Hornady it could be as much as .08gr to .1gr on top of that, the machines are supposed to be accurate within 2/10 of a grain. So this means it can be off by more or less. So I’d really confirm that they’re working for your intended use. In a small cartridge it’s a big enough deal but for 300 WinMag no. As for the Labradar, it’s only consistent as long as I’m using a trigger mechanism. Also I have a real magnified micro sight with a reticle that I use to align the Labradar to the target. I’ll check out the video you’re recommending because it’s always good to learn and I’m not too proud to say I could be wrong or I could still learn.
@@DMHal01 It is always difficult to communicate over RUclips comments having a limited space to type out rather complicated replies, It would also be so helpful to be able to simply add pictures into these comments but I digress. That may be true there are a lot of people saying that the 10SLD is the end all be all. In my experience it has as much of a chance to reveal a node as it does to miss a node. Perhaps this is something that I should revisit and do a little more comparing and contrasting. I do know that the RCBS Matchmaster can be a bit finicky and the Hornady Auto Charge pro is only accurate to 1/10th of a grain (.1 grain). That is very interesting to hear about the RCBS Matchmaster I have a set of Certified check weights and 2 Matchmasters and both have always been within .02 grains. It has been awhile since I verified this though and perhaps I should double check once again it never hurts to check ones equipment from time to time. I know when using extruded powder I have had no problems trickling up 1 kernel at a time and it seems to be able to accurate and reliable and register each kernels weight as I trickle. I like the Labradar for the convenience sake and it is accurate but for our purposes we want to get the most accurate and consistent results with zero errors. I too use the trigger function and have even tried the microphone add on and I get perfect readings nearly every time but after 200 or so rounds it is not uncommon to have a velocity or two that seem off or inaccurate or it fails to trigger due to the rifle being suppressed. So that is the primary reason why I use the Oehler they have been making chronographs for a long time and their pressure testing equipment is the gold standard so it makes more sense to me to use them. Plus I like how the model 35 P has a proof channel to double check and ensure that the velocity reading is correct and there are no errors. I would be curious to get your thoughts on it. His new methods seem to make a lot more sense to me and I think it lines up more with what Eric does. That is a good way to be and I couldn't agree more! I am a very results driven person and I am always looking to learn from those results and make sure those results are as accurate as humanly possible. It is simply amazing how much I have learned since I started doing these videos, there are many thanks to go around to people like you who challenge me on methods and provide different insight into things and many great handloaders and ballisticians that have answered countless questions and spent countless hours on the phone with me discussing these things. There is always more to learn though and that is the important thing to never stop learning. --Jeremiah
You need to expand your horizons, take a target out, honey on it. Or jam and get back at 50 yds. Get your 22 long rifle out and go at it. And you can sing that old hillbilly song flies in the buttermilk shoe shoe shoe.
Ha ha, I would love to do that, perhaps that would be a good summertime video, although with our luck the algorithm would pull the video for being offensive or something! Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment! --Jeremiah
So what you could do, Is you could get a target, with flies printed on it. And still put Honey on the flies. And call it an accuracy Test on printed pests. Who knows how it would turn out it might be hilarious. But at least it would be a lot of fun. You can count on me and my friends doing this a couple times during the summer. And most of all it's flat out great training
And no one made a 'flier' joke with the fly?
Gosh that was a missed opportunity wasn't it? Shame on me! Thanks for watching and for taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
It only took 10 minutes for you to start talking about reloading. Nice
We have a basic format for all of our videos, we talk about history, ballistics and or relevance in the intro, then we talk about the rifle we'll be loading for and then the Handloading. Then it's off to the range and back at the bench for the results of testing and final thoughts. Feel free to skip around to find the segments you are looking for, If we don't cover all of these things folks will inevitably ask about them in the comments so we try to cover as much as we can without making the video too long. Sometimes it's quite a balancing act! Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
How are you just pulling trigger and not loading another round. That's a bolt gun. Not a senior auto. Ruined the video
We edited out the time in between shots so you weren't watching me adjust the bags, settle in, squeeze and work the bolt etc. Editing this stuff out greatly shortens the overall video sometimes by 10 minutes or more depending on how much shooting we do. This was a bit of a test in this video to see how style of editing works works and since then we now show working of the bolt. I would encourage you to check out some of our other videos they all show the working of the action provided it's no semi auto. Thanks for watching and for the feedback we greatly appreciate it and are always looking for ways to improve! --Jeremiah