Exactly...the SAP stop cause the sealed death interrupted the normal course of the life...thats why the items says "the bounty was but a mere moment, such ia the course of the life" The cycle of life, death and rebirth was broken, order was introduced in the chaotic life, and this, reduced the primordial power of the crucible, age when godfrey reign
This makes me think of all life returning to the erdtree... Perhaps that life is turned to sap, to create gods. Almost like... Flesh, melded together...
Yes look at the catacombs and you see piles of “petrified” bodies tangled in the erdtree roots, usually in the boss room. The dead feed the erdtree and provides the bounty that so many people know it for. . Marika knew what she was doing when she removed death from the Elden Ring and who else but her could’ve put Godwyns infected corpse at the base of the roots of the erdtree. She wanted to destroy the Greater Wills influence over the land she ruled
@@G4meplus , it may be kind off topic are what do you think of this theory of mine ? finlay betrayed Malenia upon taking her to the haligtree after jerren started making highly innacurate fanart of her and malenia and sending it to everyone in the lands between so as to destroy malenias image. That was not before finlay was borrowing mohgs ass cheeks and rannis hair strand to do a roast battle with bernhal, vagram, Gideon, Alexander alongside ansbach, varre, lannseax until midra was paid by patches to transform into a frenzy powered armored core. To witness the destruction, patches invited master Wilhelm, Sekiro to try out the device but Sekiro died of shock and wilheim t posed, ascending into the skies and meeting goldmask After the battle of aeonia, castellan of redmane castle jerren swore revenge against Malenia for driving his master Radahn insane. The heavily injured Jerren who was about to pass out watched as finlay carried Malenia out of caelid, cursing them but was helpless given finlay was ranni extremely fast. However He had a plan to destroy malenias image. He paid his former enemy Seluvis. The plan was to have Seluvis, a master of lore inaccurate fanartd draw highly lore.. inaccurate fanart of malenia and finlay which would make Malenia seem like a massive piece of shit that is only good for reproduction. Also the fanart would depict vleanrot knights looking human which is something miquella has denied since the formation of the haligtree. To depict finlay a cleanort knight looking human would just give the message that miquella is a liar and his age is a scam. Jerren hired patcehs to introduce tech so jerren could cancel Malenia online. Finlay on the way to the haligtree was kicked by patches who promised 100000000 runes to participate in a roast tournament. Finlay was loyal to Malenia but money was more important to her. Finlay with 100000000 Trina lilies from patches gave them to the unconscious Malenia to make her stay unconscious for 24h. Finlay to do the roast battle proceeded to borrow mohgs ass cheeks which mog regenerated and rannis hair which she used to make a machine gun with some of malenias skin(numen skin can graft stuff). The roast battle involved bernhal, vagram, Gideon, Alexander alongside ansbach varre, lannseax. Finlay won it after 13 hours. Patches reveals the entire roast tournament is a scam and he won't be rewarding the winner. Patches pays midra to transform onto a frenzy powered armoured core Which he uses to destroy all of limgrave. This happened because Jerren paid patches 3478494 trillion runes. Patches had Wilhelm and Sekiro shows up to try out the device and witness the destruction. Sekiro was the shocked to death by a lighting which struck him. Master Wilhelm used mods to ascend into the skies but he met goldmask and they both t posed. Patches within 4 hours distributed technology and internet to the entire lands between. Finlay returned Malenia to the haligtree. By the time she returned she realised that everyone had a lore innacurate view of her and malenia. Thinking Malenia was behind this (finlay is dumb) finlay killed malenia but not before gwyndolin shot her to death using a missile launcher. Bernhal who had used the zip glitch and ended up in the haligtree questioned why gwyndolin is here if Aldrich ate him in DS3. Patches explains that time is convoluted in the lands between. MichAl zaki shows up and beats patches to death. Patches is not surprised given the entire situation was caused by his timeline alterations. Patches lets Michael kills him. Michael undoes the events of this entire parody and patches awakes in murkwater cave in the present like nothing happened. many years ago, finlay took Malenia to the haligtree. Patches time travelled and showed up and claimed that malenia made lore.innacurate fanart of malenia and finlay. This angered finlay who decided to betray malenia. This time instead of killing Malena, malenia awoke as finlay stabbed jer she did not receive the large dosage Trina lilies who caused her to be unconscious for 24h in the erased events. Malenia killed finlay, Finlay's dying words saying that malenia will pay for that terrible faner and asked morgott to do something about it because she thought she paid morgott to protect her(she didn't she halluctanted it because she drank some of the godrick brand orange juice on the way to the haligtree). Malenia asked morgott to explain this and morgott asked hewg to do some spirit tuning on finlayz Turing finlay into a spirit summon. Please do share this theory, I want the entire fandom to hear this! Also you can find more theories on my community post!
The existence of lion beastmen likely predates the sacred beasts of Enir Ilim but Godfrey is DEFINITELY "the seduction". The Hornsent absolutely hated the idea of their perfect saint Marika recruiting the highland warriors and betraying their plans for her.
The seduction is the vengeance that two fingers could grant marika when they gave her support to be the next god of the coming age (erdtree) marika and the numen were oppressed, so, marika in the finger ruins take the bell, the two fingers gave her support and she used this to convince the hornsent that she was the chosen to lead them to the divinty they wanted...and the betray, its from two fingers to marika... They prommised her glory, power, vengeance, but never said the cost... Divinity its a prison, its a Cage Marika was a slave of the g.o during all her life Thats why when her faith fades, she started the crusade
Love this video. I had already theorized myself that Godfrey was of the Hornsent culture, although I came to that conclusion through a very different path: the beast claws. In the cutscene where Godfrey kills Serosh and absorbs his essence, there's a brief moment where serosh's claws are superimposed over Godfrey's hands. Looking at the beast claws, they look nearly identical to these superimposed claws, and Godfrey fights in a very similar manner as the claw moveset. Another clue linking the Messmer soldiers to Godfrey is their use of a stomp attack. Stomps are a pretty unique attack, and they are exclusively used by enemies linked to Godfrey (more on this in a moment) and are a default skill on a single weapon type: axes. Stomp attacks are a skill used against us by Crucible Knights, the loyal warriors of Godfrey himself. The other enemies to use this tactic in some capacity are the misbegotten, which also wield axes and cleavers, along with being explicitly tied to the Crucible. The Leontine misbegotten are also heavily associated with Radagon....who also utilizes stomping prominently in his attacks. The mystery of just who exactly IS Radagon continue to deepen after playing the DLC, despite many of the questions surrounding him being answered. But the idea that he was a factor in the lore going back to the events we learn about in the DLC, to the Hornsent, and to Marika's ascension to godhood, is looking more and more likely. Perhaps, with more lore videos like this, we will find the answer to his origin hidden in the game. Or at least enough clues that we can piece together to draw our own conclusions, if there isn't enough evidence for a definitive theory. While I don't disagree with any of the main arguments being made here, I do have some questions. Or at least one question: what happened to Godfrey and Serosh's horns? While everything pointed to Godfrey being a high status individual amongst the Hornsent, given that Marika chose him specifically to marry, I never actually made that conclusion. Not that it didn't make sense, but because Godfrey (and Serosh for that matter) lack a specific trait of the upper echelons of Hornsent culture: horns. Despite his clear and numerous ties to the Crucible, Godfrey doesn't have any horns. Interestingly neither does Serosh, despite every other lion/lion-like creature in the game having some kind of horn growths. Godfrey's twin sons being born not only as Hornsent, but as uniquely and abundantly blessed by the Crucible, in addition to all the other evidence, is enough to confidently state his origins as an important figure in Hornsent culture (certainly noble, likely even Royal). With that said, what about Godwyn? We don't ever get to see what he looked like before his assassination; instead we get a few brief glimpses of his corpse from a limited angle, followed by what now appears to be putrescence writhing underneath his skin and leaking out of his eyes, as well as an artists rendering of the night of black knives, a depiction which on close examination again raises more questions than answers. Was he born free of the curse of his father's heritage? Or is the blatant absence of any depiction of Godwyn as he was in life a major clue we spent over 2 years ignoring because it was inconvenient to our preconceived ideas about what the DLC would/should be about? We learn that Grace, and the sap of the Erdtree, are linked concepts, if not one and the same. They are also framed in a way that raises some red flags, but without quite knowing why. There's just a vague sense of unease surrounding grace and the sap, like there's more to them than we have been told, but despite those details being withheld, the implication remains that something feels very off. Godwyn shares this same vague sense of apprehension, of there being something about him we don't know that if we did know would totally and irrevocably change our perception of him
I released a theory video a few months ago in which my big conclusion was that Godfrey was Marika’s seduction that really picked up and got a ton of positive attention. We cover a lot of different angles and have some different conclusions but it’s fun to see how we both ended up with that as our central basis.
I can't understand how your videos are not up in the Lore Olympus with Vaaty, Crunchy, Smaughtown, Ratatoskr, miss Chalice, Kosm etc... This one was so fu**ing good...
Right?! Especially seemingly English isn't his first language, and yet his narratives and well-reasoned arguments are more coherently, succinctly laid out than 99% of ER lore content creators. Huge kudos and gratitude for this guy's vids 👏
@@tarnished-ml3fr3jq8w I only know a few good as he is with explaining lore... But many don't make almost any video rn... There is an Italian guy, Sabaku no Maiku, who does plenty of videos and is known in italy as the OG Lore Enjoyer, and even him is not as productive as the Alchemist. GG indeed, my fellow tarnished!
Thanks a lot my friend, it's incredibly appreciated. Making lore videos was always something I wanted to do and the important part for me is providing value for the community, I am almost at 4k subscribers which is amazing that all of those people enjoy my videos and trust me. Don't get me wrong achieving the amount of success that someone like Vaati and smoughtown have would be mind blowing for me but, tbh those creators are incredibly talented, I am yet to achieve their level of mastery over the Lore and video making skills. Hopefully I am on the right track though.
@@G4meplus I totally get it, I also am always thinking of making videos about some games and their lore... And even if you already make really amazing videos I am sure you have the right spirit to keep improving and getting even better! P.S. You really have some of the most complete and deep theories in the lore community, so don't underestimate yourself!
Beautiful theory that ties up alot of loose ends,I had my suspicions eversince I played the dlc that Godfrey was one of the reasons why Marika gained so much influence amongst the hornsent.That and the lesser theory that she somehow was the only successful jar saint which granted her power and her alter ego Radagon.The talisman you mention,Lords Bestowal,is also found in Messmers Shadow Keep,which means Godfrey was aware and even interacted with Messmer.
The question remains. What is the Sap of the Erdtree? The Erdtree produces 3 things: fallen leaves, which are a sign of decay, light, which is the guidance of grace, and sap. The Erdtree is likely just the Greatree, with the Marika's golden rays of light adorning it, to create the Erdtree we see now. The Greatree's primary function is to act as a conduit for the dead to "return" to it. It seems that this function remains in the Age of the Erdtree. But what does this mean? It makes sense how people can return to the Erdtree through Erdtree burial, but how are they then reborn? We don't see people falling out of the Erdtree. Unless the Sap of the Erdtree IS the very same people who have returned back to it. Greatjar Warrior Alexander's whole journey is about starting out as an empty vessel, and collecting the corpses of fallen champions, and combining them within himself. "Lend me strength, O warriors within! Let us become one champion, together!" I think this mirrors the Erdtree, and Godfrey exactly. Hell we even summon Alexander for Fire Giant. Erdtree burial collects the dead, and produces sap, which is akin to Alexander's Innards. Strength that is bestowed upon those deemed worthy. It is no wonder Godfrey is the leader of the Tarnished, I think he was literally been carrying around fallen champions within himself. Interestingly, this might change how we look at his kin such as Nepheli Loux. When he is banished from TLB, he clearly keeps Serosh, yet reverts back to Hoarah Loux. What does this mean for the champions we carried within him? I think it is very possible they, now free of the Erdtree's reign, are able to be reborn naturally, and become people again like Nepheli Loux.
So glad you mentioned this. What IS the sap indeed. It seems like, since it ran gold anyways, to be maybe not a good thing? It is what bestows Grace, which we can literally see in one's eyes. We learn this isn't a magical aesthetic change, but an actual, physiological change to the eyes. We know that Grace in the eyes serves, among other possibilities, the purpose of blinding or obfuscating the truth from one's vision. Possibly allows Marika to determine what your eyes do and don't see, which admittedly would perfectly explain how the land of shadow works, if it's in fact true that it's still physically all part of the lands between but simply impossible to see or interact with (what we see dictates our reality. Out of sight, out of mind). Possibly lends more credence to the oft dismissed theory that the Erdtree as we see it is an illusion that only those blessed with Grace can see.
@@Coast2CoastFlyin I was of the belief that it was more or less confirmed that the Erdtree is only visible to those with Grace. I believe there is a spirit NPC who says something like where is the Erdtree, when it is literally right in front of him. I don't think Sap bestows grace at all. I've heard people come to that idea based off of the description of the Crimson/Cerulean Flasks, yet that dosn't make sense. Grace is bestowed upon us before we even get the flasks so that dosn't make sense. Hmm, considering we get the flasks just after 1st meeting Melina, would that not mean that she gave them to us?
As for the Erdtree rebirth cycle and stuff, I'm admittedly not sure. The DLC honestly just made that whole issue even more confusing for me, especially in Elir-Ilim where we find different yet still familiar golden trees. Then there's Marika's little golden tree, the original Erdtree as seen in early iconography previously theorized as depicting the Great Tree by Tarnished Archeologist and others. In typical From fashion we get a huge piece of evidence that explains something we previously had no way of knowing, but instead of clarifying anything it just added more questions. One thing I will say though is that sap is the means by which Grace was bestowed, and Grace is the means by which Marika exerts her control over TLB. By controlling what we see, she controls our reality. To what end, I cannot say, but I'd try to cut back on slurping down those tear flasks. Whatever it is exactly we're drinking, it can't be good for us
Ya know i really dig this theory. However, seeing as how neither Serosh nor Godfrey seem to have any horns, i feel like it might be safer to say that Godfrey wasn’t necessarily part of the hornsent. Rather, what if he was just a highlander who was revered by the hornsent for accomplishing a feat similar to Ornis? The grandam might still be upset with Marika seducing him even in this case.
9:34 You put "the first Elden Lord" which isn't part of the item description. Cool video but I don't think Serosh was a ruler of the Hornsent or Enim Elir. For one Serosh has no horns unlike the the Lion Dancers or the Lion Guardians, which wear shackles. Serosh was most likely from Farum Azula, considering the Beastclaw Greathammer: "A greathammer with a striking end modeled to resemble five beastly claws. The black nails protruding from golden fur are said to represent Serosh, Lord of Beasts, who went on to become King Godfrey's regent." We get this from Gurranq, and it's important to note the "five beastly claws," which relates to the Cinquedea: "The design celebrates a beast's five fingers, symbolic of the intelligence once granted upon their kind." Serosh was most likely a Beastman from Farum Azula, who was granted intelligence by the Ancient Dragons. There is more to this but you get the idea.
The elden lord isn't part of the description yes I copied the text effect and forgot to remove that sentence, apologies. About Serosh, I never said he was the ruler of Enir-Elim they just viewed him as one of the most divine. The entire case of divine beasts and divine invocation is based on the "kami" from shinto belief where if a creature live a really long time or become the most powerful in his race he ascends to Divinity, I will probably make a video explaining this. So what i meant here was that Serosh was one of those beasts that became divine, actually the title itself would give him outmost divinity according to shinto, he was the lord of beasts. His homeland or kingdom wouldn't matter with the hornsent regarding worshipping him, he may have been from Farum Azula yes. The last point about the lion dancers, those are representation of the divine beasts they aren't the real ones, it's a custom made and wore by the sculpted keepers who call upon the divine beats power so it would be really logical that they made the custom and the statues to have horns, it's not necessarily it's the truth.
@@G4meplus I don't believe longevity is the focal point of Divine Invocation. It seems that Divine Invocation is about raising your spirituality, and this is achieved through dancing and fighting. This is why the Lion Dance was turned towards martial ends when Messmer attacked, combat is so important to the Hornsent that it becomes a form of dance to them. Raising your spirituality involves emotional upheaval, and the emotion the Hornsent and Godfrey are concerned with is rage. This is why the higher-ranked Horned Warriors gain stronger storm powers, as the storm mirrors their rage: "Divine beasts are messengers of the heavens, and their rage mirrors the tumult of the skies, of which storms are the pinnacle." And becasue of the Horsents connection to the Crucible their spirituality comes with tangled horns, which Serosh doesn't have. I think the most reasonable thing to say is Serosh is from Farum Azula and was a Lord in Farum Azula.
@@Titan_Ult This makes sense to me, as the patterning on Godfrey's axe is similar to what's on the Beastman's Cleaver weapon, implying it was possibly forged by Beastmen.
There's some cut content regarding miquella and Messmer that I think actually supports the crusade timeline. Originally, Messmer would say something like "Thou art tarnished...Miquella spoke of thee" (paraphrasing) To me this line being cut actually supports the theory that Godfrey's banishment was the trigger to the crusade. If they had kept the line then the crusade would have started before Godfrey's banishment since clearly Messmer did not know about the tarnished. But now that it's gone, this implies Messmer was already aware of what a tarnished is, thus, the long march had to have happened before the veiling of the shadow lands. As a follow up theory, I think the presence of the impalers catacombs in the weeping peninsula might point to the long march being forced by spear point. There is evidence of this with the rusted anchor description too. There was one left behind ship, I think the last tarnished ship got cold feet and attempted to remain only to be taken out by Messmer the Impalers forces, with the dead from his army being entombed in the impalers catacombs
I just have to say, this is maybe the best and most well thought out theories and video presentation of said theory ive seen maybe ever. I believe this theory whole heartedly and was definitely pickings up on some of these things while playing through the dlc. But you put it together so so cleanly. Very well done friend, im subscribing!
The three lives Daenerys sacrificed for her dragons were Khal Drogo, The Witch that cursed him, and her unborn son. That last one is a bit of a parallel to Godwyn mayhaps? Obviously Godwyn lived a whole life, but both mothers sacrificed their sons lives.
Finally! A concrete timeline to the events before the Shattering! With the addition of the DLC a lot of the history just didnt add up because prior to this I assumed most of the events happened pretty later on right before the Shattering, but all of it was long before that. Marika's rule happened longer before acquiring Godhood which made a narrative that makes a lot of sense.
What I still can't wrap my head around is why he would straight up kill his friend instead of just removing him from his back was it not possible to do so without killing Serosh or something?
@@darkmage4648 he was still Godfrey and had Serosh to tame his savagery. It was a conscious decision and thanked him for his service as an advisor. He needed to up his power level to win.
In the intro cinematic we see Godfrey alongside corporal form Serosh crucified and dead. It seems Serosh did indeed fight alongside Godfrey in his corporal form but, it wasn't enough. from that perspective I can see why Godfrey chose to kill Serosh this time to gain more power, yes i believe he absorbed Serosh and my evidence is the "beast claw weapon description" yet i didn't want to put that part in the video because it might be a little confusing. The beast claw weapon seems related to the beast claw greathammer (the weapon which tells us Serosh was lord of the beasts) the beast claw weapon reads as follows. "Weapon in the form of a carnivorous beast's vicious claws. Used to perform bestial slashing attacks uncanny to humankind. An imitation of the esoteric technique of the horned warriors. Those who carry this weapon wield it as though they have been possessed by a savage beast." The weapon tells us that the user fights with it as if he was possessed by a savage beast and that this is technique is an imitation of the horned warriors technique. I believe that's exactly what Godfrey did when he killed Serosh, he absorbed Serosh and used his power, "possessed by a savage beast" here makes a ton of sense.
Something I wanted to add which I originally did in a comment thread but feel could be interesting to note in general; It is alluded to in some item descriptions that Godfrey and Serosh might be the first case of grafting in the Lands Between and that this practice was inspiring his descendants in the golden lineage, like Godrick and Godefroy. Furthermore, it is directly stated by the Godfrey Icon item description that "he took the Beast Regent Serosh upon on his back to suppress the ceaseless lust for battle that raged within", in order to become Elden Lord. What this tells us is that Serosh isn't just his advisor and the Lord of Beasts, but that him sitting on his back and chomping on his shoulder is actively making him weaker than he should be, I.E. Serosh is a literal power limiter. Being possibly grafted onto Godfrey, he can't remove himself even if he wanted to (further proven by how he is still sitting on Godfreys back even as the latter is dead and stabbed into a tree). The only way for Godfrey to potentially do his duty, to brandish the Elden Ring, become Elden Lord once more and defeat us players is by embracing his past strength as Hoarah Loux, and the only way to do that is to remove the one thing keeping him from going back to that state, that being Serosh. With this added context, Godfrey killing Serosh for his boss fights second phase isn't him being an ungrateful douchebag to Serosh just 'cause, he literally complements the beast and acknowledges his importance in his life. It's just that they are up against an unstoppable force and Godfrey needs to become an immovable object in response, something that Serosh I believe, from his time in the era where "a crown is warranted with strength", would fully understand. He MIGHT be taking Serosh's power, but the important part is that he removes the limiter to his already existing power. PS: It is also a headcanon of mine that Serosh is also Godfreys emotional outlet, taking his intense emotions and keeps him calmly thinking, which is why while Godfrey is cradling Morgotts corpse while visibly and audibly calmly mourning the loss, Serosh is roaring at the top of his lungs in what can be interpreted as complete anguish. And after Serosh's death Hoarah Loux loses the suppression on his emotions, causing himself to roar in an unknown emotion, I interpret it as him experiencing every single emotion at full blast for the first time since his crowning.
The sap made him a golden puppet. 14:51 the sap is the same as the potion Ranni kills you for trying to make her drink it. It controls your fate. Amber is fossilized sap. |AMBER STARLIGHT: An ephemeral sliver that gives off a pale amber glow. What remains of a passing flash of starlight. If the stars command our fates, then amber-hued stars must command the fates of the gods. Such is the belief that inspired the use of these shards to prepare a most special draught. Cannot be consumed by mere humans. This is why Nepheli drinks the blue potion. Generational trauma. The story repeats again.
Godfrey is the greatest character in Elden Ring he doesn't use incantations or sorceries, the blood of a god does not run through his veins and he doesn't have powers from an outer god. he doesn't have great runes, and while others battle and fight wars to gain powers he seals his own power, even in his first death he died with Serosh The first Elden Lord and the ONLY character in Elden ring with a remembrance in his name "Remembrance of Hoarah Loux"
Lol so he wasn't smart enough to cast a sorcery? And had not the conviction to use a simple heal? What kind of flex is that. He's a Meathead and Marika didn't betray him, what she did allowed him and his descendants to be free from what took her centuries to unravel.
@@Jadizi it's called being a warrior...something you don't comprehend he can learn sorcery but it's for the weak, warriors want to reach greater heights with their own strength and Godfrey in his 2nd phase throws his weapon only using his hands all characters are using sorcery or incantation and yet they are not stronger than Godfrey who only uses raw strength if you still think this is not a flex then there is something wrong with your brain
It also makes sense why Marika Seduces Horrah Loux. She needed a Lord in order to become a god. Just like Miquella needed Radahn to be the god of compassion.
Northerner description: A face found among the hardy people of the unforgiving north. Some say they're descended from giants. I theorize Godfrey/Hoarah Loux is based on the Irish hero Lugh. Lugh's mother is Ethniu (or "Enia"), and her father was Balor, a one-eyed Giant. Godfrey might be the grandson of the Fell God. Since he's an old man by the time we meet him, it might not be crazy to theorize he had red hair at one point. Messmer's flame works the same way the Fell God's does in burning a tree. Likewise, on the opposite side, there's Rennala, a giantess. Her mother, possibly Renna, might have been a Finger Crone like Enia.
The only thing I don't find makes sense is Serosh being the Lord of Beasts in the Land of Shadow. The Divine Beasts are specifically "Horn deck'd" and Serosh has no horns. For that It seems Serosh was the Lord of Beasts in Farum Azula - Godfrey's own Greataxe bears resemblance to the designs of Faruma Azula's Beastmen as well- as opposed to the Highland Axe, which has leaf filigree detail instead. As for the "Divine Bird", the Stormhawk King was a King, not divine- but there was another bird who was: Twinbird. She was the envoy for an Outer God and was mother to the Deathrite Birds. Not saying the Stormhawk King isn't significant to the Loux line, he clearly is, but I don't believe he was the divine bird for Ornis.
Miazaki has a real good chance to write books, or have them written explaining more to the story of everyone not all of it, but more lore for fans to snap up like starving paranahs.
What if misbegotten are just different beast with intelligence? Stormhawks,wolves,and lions to be exact? Some fly, the big red ones look like red wolves in a human form, and the ones with the cleavers have lion like faces with blue eyes.
I think youre theory is good in some points but not lore accurate in others...but its a nice video Im not agree with serosh, godwyn and the seduction But the origin of godfrey its ok, the reason of the crussade its ok too, and the timeline its (mostly) ok But serosh its from farum azula, so godfrey battled first placidusax (hoara loux, not godfrey) Here, the lord of beast serosh, in service of dragonlord, was took, and godfrey born...he decides to act as lord, and serosh begins yo act as his regent Then, the erdtree born and the fire giants war occurs Then, he beat the hawk of the storm, the stormking A crown its warranted with strenght, and placidusaxx was elden lord...so godfrey neeeded to beat the dragonlord to be elden lord, and then, act as a defender of the erdtree, then, bring war yo the world to mantain the erdtree safe Morgott abd mohg are the firstborns of godfrey, not godwyn (Godwyn was born when the primordial energy begins to weakened, thats why he is more human and younger than morgott looks, plus, the sigil of morgott shacles and everything related to morgott abd mohg its from the bounty age and the crucible, and the sigil of the era of godwyn its the normal erdtree, you can see this in the incantation to resist lightning and the leyndell symbol of leyndell knights, instructed by godwyn) Finally, the seduction its ftom the 2 fingers to marika They offer marika power, cause she is and empyrean chosen to start a new age, the erdtree age So they gave her support and marika appears in belurat, as the primissed god of the hornsent, the one who would guide her to the divinity they wanted But divinity its a prision Marika was betrayed, and during all her life, was a slave of the golden order...this, made her lost faith, and then she decides to destroy de erd, the golden order and break the e.r
You think the reason godfrey choose to fight placi alone is because placi is already damaged due to his fight with bayle so godfrey choose to do a fair 1v1 duel instead of ganking on him with his golden army.
Call it cope, but even after the DLC, I was still convinced Godfrey battled Placidusax. My rationalization was, while Placidusax lost two of his heads in his battle with Bayle, he lost another in his battle with Godfrey much later.
Nice video. I get caught up with the divine invocation of the hornsent versus dragon communion. What i mean is the consumption of "spirit" versus "flesh." Hornsent continually summon the spirits of their defeated enemies and gained increased powered. But, with dragon communion, the individual has to literally eat a heart of flesh or stone everytime for increased power. Idk, cannibalism is a theme throughout Dark Souls and Bloodborne, so I think I'm partly trained to look for cannibalism in these games 😂. But, I get "Soylent Green" vibes from the Lord's Bestowal talisman. You could compare "sap" to "blood" and that Godfrey has pause at this new flesh consumption ritual.
@mariodiaz2449 Nice point. I forgot about that item. There is the Revenger's Shack where we find all the raw meat dumplings, as part of the frenzy flame quest, where the maiden eats eye balls
Man your videos are amazing. Great evidence and i do think it makes sense. My question is, in light of this evidence, where does the Gloam-Eyed Queen fit in?
Thank you my friend, about the gloam eyed queen I still can't get my head wrapped around it. There are a couple of theories flying around but, I really feel something is missing. Something we are yet to discover.
I'm kinda in a "middle-camp" regarding this. On the one hand, I agree with the Alchemist that Melina has an Outer God of Death within her. But on the other hand, I do believe that Melina IS the Gloam Eyed Queen, not that that's the name of the Outer God (who may well be the Twinbird's Outer God). My reasoning is that an Outer God and an Empyrean are two different things and the GEQ is very clearly identified as the latter category. Adding to this, the Blackflame Monks are very explicitly identified as having aligned themselves with the _god-slaying_ black flames, which would mean the Fire Monks already existed so the Giants were already defeated and the Age of the Erdtree began. We must remember that if they retained their god-slaying properties, then it must have been around the time of the GEQ, before Death was sealed by Marika into Maliketh's Black Blade. This is also assuming that Age of the Erdtree =/= Golden Order and the latter began only after the age of plenty (the Erdtree's first phase) ended, but both would fall under the "Age of the Erdtree". With all of this being said, it would be dishonest of me not to clarify that I'm 100% biased in favor of Melina being the GEQ, as I find personal satisfaction in the very concept from a character standpoint. But of course, I am also aware that this opinion is far from being universally agreed upon. Thank you for reading my essay. Cheers!
I love the analysis in the first part of the video, but something doesn't click for me in the speculation at the end. First of all Messmer's crusade happened BEFORE Tarnished were banished. Messmer recognizes the PC as tarnished. He wouldn't have Godfrey's soldiers if they already left for badlands. Secondly, I am still bewildered how Horax fot himself subjugated. Such powerful, dominant, testosterone juggernaut would not freely let himself be used and abused by Marika. WHY did he exchnaged divine incantation for erdtree SAP, took on Serosh and let himself be exiled? The nature of 'seduction' must be much more sinister. E.g. mind control spell or other form of manipulation. Also, erdtree stopped producing SAP, because it was burned (dust in capital) and replaced with golden illusion that became the dead object of faith.
It would be interesting if he attained that high standing maybe even that if a lord, and if he chose for Marica to return through the divine gate, that being the seduction I stress of his chosen consort perhaps the gloom eyed queen, there’s not a lot of basis for this, but I think I’d be an interesting idea
"... Without any sign of wavering." This means he did not waver. Unless there is another piece of lore that specifies Godfrey was wavering in his thoughts and/ or internally, the talisman tells us that, externally, he did not show any signs of wavering.... Which, again, means he did not waver. P.S. Apologies if this correction was already pointed out.
The erdtree stopped giving sap cus there was no more death. No sap without death.
Exactly...the SAP stop cause the sealed death interrupted the normal course of the life...thats why the items says "the bounty was but a mere moment, such ia the course of the life"
The cycle of life, death and rebirth was broken, order was introduced in the chaotic life, and this, reduced the primordial power of the crucible, age when godfrey reign
Great interpretation as well.
This makes me think of all life returning to the erdtree... Perhaps that life is turned to sap, to create gods. Almost like... Flesh, melded together...
Yes look at the catacombs and you see piles of “petrified” bodies tangled in the erdtree roots, usually in the boss room.
The dead feed the erdtree and provides the bounty that so many people know it for.
.
Marika knew what she was doing when she removed death from the Elden Ring and who else but her could’ve put Godwyns infected corpse at the base of the roots of the erdtree. She wanted to destroy the Greater Wills influence over the land she ruled
@@G4meplus , it may be kind off topic are what do you think of this theory of mine ?
finlay betrayed Malenia upon taking her to the haligtree after jerren started making highly innacurate fanart of her and malenia and sending it to everyone in the lands between so as to destroy malenias image. That was not before finlay was borrowing mohgs ass cheeks and rannis hair strand to do a roast battle with bernhal, vagram, Gideon, Alexander alongside ansbach, varre, lannseax until midra was paid by patches to transform into a frenzy powered armored core. To witness the destruction, patches invited master Wilhelm, Sekiro to try out the device but Sekiro died of shock and wilheim t posed, ascending into the skies and meeting goldmask
After the battle of aeonia, castellan of redmane castle jerren swore revenge against Malenia for driving his master Radahn insane. The heavily injured Jerren who was about to pass out watched as finlay carried Malenia out of caelid, cursing them but was helpless given finlay was ranni extremely fast. However He had a plan to destroy malenias image. He paid his former enemy Seluvis. The plan was to have Seluvis, a master of lore inaccurate fanartd draw highly lore.. inaccurate fanart of malenia and finlay which would make Malenia seem like a massive piece of shit that is only good for reproduction. Also the fanart would depict vleanrot knights looking human which is something miquella has denied since the formation of the haligtree. To depict finlay a cleanort knight looking human would just give the message that miquella is a liar and his age is a scam. Jerren hired patcehs to introduce tech so jerren could cancel Malenia online. Finlay on the way to the haligtree was kicked by patches who promised 100000000 runes to participate in a roast tournament. Finlay was loyal to Malenia but money was more important to her. Finlay with 100000000 Trina lilies from patches gave them to the unconscious Malenia to make her stay unconscious for 24h. Finlay to do the roast battle proceeded to borrow mohgs ass cheeks which mog regenerated and rannis hair which she used to make a machine gun with some of malenias skin(numen skin can graft stuff). The roast battle involved bernhal, vagram, Gideon, Alexander alongside ansbach varre, lannseax. Finlay won it after 13 hours. Patches reveals the entire roast tournament is a scam and he won't be rewarding the winner. Patches pays midra to transform onto a frenzy powered armoured core Which he uses to destroy all of limgrave. This happened because Jerren paid patches 3478494 trillion runes. Patches had Wilhelm and Sekiro shows up to try out the device and witness the destruction. Sekiro was the shocked to death by a lighting which struck him. Master Wilhelm used mods to ascend into the skies but he met goldmask and they both t posed. Patches within 4 hours distributed technology and internet to the entire lands between. Finlay returned Malenia to the haligtree. By the time she returned she realised that everyone had a lore innacurate view of her and malenia. Thinking Malenia was behind this (finlay is dumb) finlay killed malenia but not before gwyndolin shot her to death using a missile launcher. Bernhal who had used the zip glitch and ended up in the haligtree questioned why gwyndolin is here if Aldrich ate him in DS3. Patches explains that time is convoluted in the lands between. MichAl zaki shows up and beats patches to death. Patches is not surprised given the entire situation was caused by his timeline alterations. Patches lets Michael kills him. Michael undoes the events of this entire parody and patches awakes in murkwater cave in the present like nothing happened. many years ago, finlay took Malenia to the haligtree. Patches time travelled and showed up and claimed that malenia made lore.innacurate fanart of malenia and finlay. This angered finlay who decided to betray malenia. This time instead of killing Malena, malenia awoke as finlay stabbed jer she did not receive the large dosage Trina lilies who caused her to be unconscious for 24h in the erased events. Malenia killed finlay, Finlay's dying words saying that malenia will pay for that terrible faner and asked morgott to do something about it because she thought she paid morgott to protect her(she didn't she halluctanted it because she drank some of the godrick brand orange juice on the way to the haligtree). Malenia asked morgott to explain this and morgott asked hewg to do some spirit tuning on finlayz Turing finlay into a spirit summon.
Please do share this theory, I want the entire fandom to hear this!
Also you can find more theories on my community post!
The existence of lion beastmen likely predates the sacred beasts of Enir Ilim but Godfrey is DEFINITELY "the seduction". The Hornsent absolutely hated the idea of their perfect saint Marika recruiting the highland warriors and betraying their plans for her.
The seduction is the vengeance that two fingers could grant marika when they gave her support to be the next god of the coming age (erdtree) marika and the numen were oppressed, so, marika in the finger ruins take the bell, the two fingers gave her support and she used this to convince the hornsent that she was the chosen to lead them to the divinty they wanted...and the betray, its from two fingers to marika...
They prommised her glory, power, vengeance, but never said the cost...
Divinity its a prison, its a Cage
Marika was a slave of the g.o during all her life
Thats why when her faith fades, she started the crusade
Love this video. I had already theorized myself that Godfrey was of the Hornsent culture, although I came to that conclusion through a very different path: the beast claws. In the cutscene where Godfrey kills Serosh and absorbs his essence, there's a brief moment where serosh's claws are superimposed over Godfrey's hands. Looking at the beast claws, they look nearly identical to these superimposed claws, and Godfrey fights in a very similar manner as the claw moveset.
Another clue linking the Messmer soldiers to Godfrey is their use of a stomp attack. Stomps are a pretty unique attack, and they are exclusively used by enemies linked to Godfrey (more on this in a moment) and are a default skill on a single weapon type: axes.
Stomp attacks are a skill used against us by Crucible Knights, the loyal warriors of Godfrey himself. The other enemies to use this tactic in some capacity are the misbegotten, which also wield axes and cleavers, along with being explicitly tied to the Crucible. The Leontine misbegotten are also heavily associated with Radagon....who also utilizes stomping prominently in his attacks.
The mystery of just who exactly IS Radagon continue to deepen after playing the DLC, despite many of the questions surrounding him being answered. But the idea that he was a factor in the lore going back to the events we learn about in the DLC, to the Hornsent, and to Marika's ascension to godhood, is looking more and more likely. Perhaps, with more lore videos like this, we will find the answer to his origin hidden in the game. Or at least enough clues that we can piece together to draw our own conclusions, if there isn't enough evidence for a definitive theory.
While I don't disagree with any of the main arguments being made here, I do have some questions. Or at least one question: what happened to Godfrey and Serosh's horns? While everything pointed to Godfrey being a high status individual amongst the Hornsent, given that Marika chose him specifically to marry, I never actually made that conclusion. Not that it didn't make sense, but because Godfrey (and Serosh for that matter) lack a specific trait of the upper echelons of Hornsent culture: horns. Despite his clear and numerous ties to the Crucible, Godfrey doesn't have any horns. Interestingly neither does Serosh, despite every other lion/lion-like creature in the game having some kind of horn growths.
Godfrey's twin sons being born not only as Hornsent, but as uniquely and abundantly blessed by the Crucible, in addition to all the other evidence, is enough to confidently state his origins as an important figure in Hornsent culture (certainly noble, likely even Royal). With that said, what about Godwyn? We don't ever get to see what he looked like before his assassination; instead we get a few brief glimpses of his corpse from a limited angle, followed by what now appears to be putrescence writhing underneath his skin and leaking out of his eyes, as well as an artists rendering of the night of black knives, a depiction which on close examination again raises more questions than answers. Was he born free of the curse of his father's heritage? Or is the blatant absence of any depiction of Godwyn as he was in life a major clue we spent over 2 years ignoring because it was inconvenient to our preconceived ideas about what the DLC would/should be about?
We learn that Grace, and the sap of the Erdtree, are linked concepts, if not one and the same. They are also framed in a way that raises some red flags, but without quite knowing why. There's just a vague sense of unease surrounding grace and the sap, like there's more to them than we have been told, but despite those details being withheld, the implication remains that something feels very off. Godwyn shares this same vague sense of apprehension, of there being something about him we don't know that if we did know would totally and irrevocably change our perception of him
I released a theory video a few months ago in which my big conclusion was that Godfrey was Marika’s seduction that really picked up and got a ton of positive attention. We cover a lot of different angles and have some different conclusions but it’s fun to see how we both ended up with that as our central basis.
I can't understand how your videos are not up in the Lore Olympus with Vaaty, Crunchy, Smaughtown, Ratatoskr, miss Chalice, Kosm etc... This one was so fu**ing good...
Right?! Especially seemingly English isn't his first language, and yet his narratives and well-reasoned arguments are more coherently, succinctly laid out than 99% of ER lore content creators. Huge kudos and gratitude for this guy's vids 👏
@@tarnished-ml3fr3jq8w I only know a few good as he is with explaining lore... But many don't make almost any video rn... There is an Italian guy, Sabaku no Maiku, who does plenty of videos and is known in italy as the OG Lore Enjoyer, and even him is not as productive as the Alchemist.
GG indeed, my fellow tarnished!
Seriously, a lot of new insight. Keep em' coming.
Thanks a lot my friend, it's incredibly appreciated.
Making lore videos was always something I wanted to do and the important part for me is providing value for the community, I am almost at 4k subscribers which is amazing that all of those people enjoy my videos and trust me.
Don't get me wrong achieving the amount of success that someone like Vaati and smoughtown have would be mind blowing for me but, tbh those creators are incredibly talented, I am yet to achieve their level of mastery over the Lore and video making skills.
Hopefully I am on the right track though.
@@G4meplus I totally get it, I also am always thinking of making videos about some games and their lore... And even if you already make really amazing videos I am sure you have the right spirit to keep improving and getting even better!
P.S.
You really have some of the most complete and deep theories in the lore community, so don't underestimate yourself!
Beautiful theory that ties up alot of loose ends,I had my suspicions eversince I played the dlc that Godfrey was one of the reasons why Marika gained so much influence amongst the hornsent.That and the lesser theory that she somehow was the only successful jar saint which granted her power and her alter ego Radagon.The talisman you mention,Lords Bestowal,is also found in Messmers Shadow Keep,which means Godfrey was aware and even interacted with Messmer.
The question remains. What is the Sap of the Erdtree? The Erdtree produces 3 things: fallen leaves, which are a sign of decay, light, which is the guidance of grace, and sap.
The Erdtree is likely just the Greatree, with the Marika's golden rays of light adorning it, to create the Erdtree we see now. The Greatree's primary function is to act as a conduit for the dead to "return" to it. It seems that this function remains in the Age of the Erdtree. But what does this mean? It makes sense how people can return to the Erdtree through Erdtree burial, but how are they then reborn? We don't see people falling out of the Erdtree.
Unless the Sap of the Erdtree IS the very same people who have returned back to it.
Greatjar Warrior Alexander's whole journey is about starting out as an empty vessel, and collecting the corpses of fallen champions, and combining them within himself.
"Lend me strength, O warriors within!
Let us become one champion, together!"
I think this mirrors the Erdtree, and Godfrey exactly. Hell we even summon Alexander for Fire Giant. Erdtree burial collects the dead, and produces sap, which is akin to Alexander's Innards. Strength that is bestowed upon those deemed worthy. It is no wonder Godfrey is the leader of the Tarnished, I think he was literally been carrying around fallen champions within himself.
Interestingly, this might change how we look at his kin such as Nepheli Loux. When he is banished from TLB, he clearly keeps Serosh, yet reverts back to Hoarah Loux. What does this mean for the champions we carried within him? I think it is very possible they, now free of the Erdtree's reign, are able to be reborn naturally, and become people again like Nepheli Loux.
So glad you mentioned this. What IS the sap indeed. It seems like, since it ran gold anyways, to be maybe not a good thing? It is what bestows Grace, which we can literally see in one's eyes. We learn this isn't a magical aesthetic change, but an actual, physiological change to the eyes. We know that Grace in the eyes serves, among other possibilities, the purpose of blinding or obfuscating the truth from one's vision. Possibly allows Marika to determine what your eyes do and don't see, which admittedly would perfectly explain how the land of shadow works, if it's in fact true that it's still physically all part of the lands between but simply impossible to see or interact with (what we see dictates our reality. Out of sight, out of mind). Possibly lends more credence to the oft dismissed theory that the Erdtree as we see it is an illusion that only those blessed with Grace can see.
@@Coast2CoastFlyin I was of the belief that it was more or less confirmed that the Erdtree is only visible to those with Grace. I believe there is a spirit NPC who says something like where is the Erdtree, when it is literally right in front of him.
I don't think Sap bestows grace at all. I've heard people come to that idea based off of the description of the Crimson/Cerulean Flasks, yet that dosn't make sense. Grace is bestowed upon us before we even get the flasks so that dosn't make sense.
Hmm, considering we get the flasks just after 1st meeting Melina, would that not mean that she gave them to us?
As for the Erdtree rebirth cycle and stuff, I'm admittedly not sure. The DLC honestly just made that whole issue even more confusing for me, especially in Elir-Ilim where we find different yet still familiar golden trees. Then there's Marika's little golden tree, the original Erdtree as seen in early iconography previously theorized as depicting the Great Tree by Tarnished Archeologist and others. In typical From fashion we get a huge piece of evidence that explains something we previously had no way of knowing, but instead of clarifying anything it just added more questions.
One thing I will say though is that sap is the means by which Grace was bestowed, and Grace is the means by which Marika exerts her control over TLB. By controlling what we see, she controls our reality. To what end, I cannot say, but I'd try to cut back on slurping down those tear flasks. Whatever it is exactly we're drinking, it can't be good for us
Ya know i really dig this theory. However, seeing as how neither Serosh nor Godfrey seem to have any horns, i feel like it might be safer to say that Godfrey wasn’t necessarily part of the hornsent. Rather, what if he was just a highlander who was revered by the hornsent for accomplishing a feat similar to Ornis? The grandam might still be upset with Marika seducing him even in this case.
Great video! Thanks! I feel like Godfrey is often overlooked
Has anyone tried to summon the Stormhawk in the arena with Ornis? 👀🤔 Might need to in another playthrough
9:34 You put "the first Elden Lord" which isn't part of the item description.
Cool video but I don't think Serosh was a ruler of the Hornsent or Enim Elir. For one Serosh has no horns unlike the the Lion Dancers or the Lion Guardians, which wear shackles.
Serosh was most likely from Farum Azula, considering the Beastclaw Greathammer: "A greathammer with a striking end modeled to resemble five beastly claws. The black nails protruding from golden fur are said to represent Serosh, Lord of Beasts, who went on to become King Godfrey's regent." We get this from Gurranq, and it's important to note the "five beastly claws," which relates to the Cinquedea: "The design celebrates a beast's five fingers, symbolic of the intelligence once granted upon their kind." Serosh was most likely a Beastman from Farum Azula, who was granted intelligence by the Ancient Dragons.
There is more to this but you get the idea.
The elden lord isn't part of the description yes I copied the text effect and forgot to remove that sentence, apologies.
About Serosh, I never said he was the ruler of Enir-Elim they just viewed him as one of the most divine.
The entire case of divine beasts and divine invocation is based on the "kami" from shinto belief where if a creature live a really long time or become the most powerful in his race he ascends to Divinity, I will probably make a video explaining this.
So what i meant here was that Serosh was one of those beasts that became divine, actually the title itself would give him outmost divinity according to shinto, he was the lord of beasts.
His homeland or kingdom wouldn't matter with the hornsent regarding worshipping him, he may have been from Farum Azula yes.
The last point about the lion dancers, those are representation of the divine beasts they aren't the real ones, it's a custom made and wore by the sculpted keepers who call upon the divine beats power so it would be really logical that they made the custom and the statues to have horns, it's not necessarily it's the truth.
@@G4meplus
I don't believe longevity is the focal point of Divine Invocation. It seems that Divine Invocation is about raising your spirituality, and this is achieved through dancing and fighting. This is why the Lion Dance was turned towards martial ends when Messmer attacked, combat is so important to the Hornsent that it becomes a form of dance to them.
Raising your spirituality involves emotional upheaval, and the emotion the Hornsent and Godfrey are concerned with is rage. This is why the higher-ranked Horned Warriors gain stronger storm powers, as the storm mirrors their rage: "Divine beasts are messengers of the heavens, and their rage mirrors the tumult of the skies, of which storms are the pinnacle."
And becasue of the Horsents connection to the Crucible their spirituality comes with tangled horns, which Serosh doesn't have. I think the most reasonable thing to say is Serosh is from Farum Azula and was a Lord in Farum Azula.
@@Titan_Ult This makes sense to me, as the patterning on Godfrey's axe is similar to what's on the Beastman's Cleaver weapon, implying it was possibly forged by Beastmen.
There's some cut content regarding miquella and Messmer that I think actually supports the crusade timeline.
Originally, Messmer would say something like "Thou art tarnished...Miquella spoke of thee" (paraphrasing)
To me this line being cut actually supports the theory that Godfrey's banishment was the trigger to the crusade. If they had kept the line then the crusade would have started before Godfrey's banishment since clearly Messmer did not know about the tarnished. But now that it's gone, this implies Messmer was already aware of what a tarnished is, thus, the long march had to have happened before the veiling of the shadow lands.
As a follow up theory, I think the presence of the impalers catacombs in the weeping peninsula might point to the long march being forced by spear point. There is evidence of this with the rusted anchor description too. There was one left behind ship, I think the last tarnished ship got cold feet and attempted to remain only to be taken out by Messmer the Impalers forces, with the dead from his army being entombed in the impalers catacombs
TLDR there's a cut line in Messmers dialogue that supports the timeline and it was Messmers army that hounded the tarnished from the lands between
Miquella is there in the shadowland, so if that was in there. I would interpret it as him stopping by telling this is what our mother/father did.
I just have to say, this is maybe the best and most well thought out theories and video presentation of said theory ive seen maybe ever.
I believe this theory whole heartedly and was definitely pickings up on some of these things while playing through the dlc. But you put it together so so cleanly.
Very well done friend, im subscribing!
un-ironically some of the best and more consistent theory crafting I've seen from this community, honestly this is my head canon now
The three lives Daenerys sacrificed for her dragons were Khal Drogo, The Witch that cursed him, and her unborn son. That last one is a bit of a parallel to Godwyn mayhaps? Obviously Godwyn lived a whole life, but both mothers sacrificed their sons lives.
Theory fits perfectly great video bro
Well done, this is much better evidenced by game lore than most of the speculation ive seen since SotE dropped.
Finally! A concrete timeline to the events before the Shattering! With the addition of the DLC a lot of the history just didnt add up because prior to this I assumed most of the events happened pretty later on right before the Shattering, but all of it was long before that. Marika's rule happened longer before acquiring Godhood which made a narrative that makes a lot of sense.
What I still can't wrap my head around is why he would straight up kill his friend instead of just removing him from his back was it not possible to do so without killing Serosh or something?
He had to take every measure to make sure his power level was over9000.
And it still wasn't enough for my club.
Hourah Loux is a savage, it is his nature. He doesnt care about Serosh
@@darkmage4648 he was still Godfrey and had Serosh to tame his savagery. It was a conscious decision and thanked him for his service as an advisor. He needed to up his power level to win.
In the intro cinematic we see Godfrey alongside corporal form Serosh crucified and dead.
It seems Serosh did indeed fight alongside Godfrey in his corporal form but, it wasn't enough.
from that perspective I can see why Godfrey chose to kill Serosh this time to gain more power, yes i believe he absorbed Serosh and my evidence is the "beast claw weapon description" yet i didn't want to put that part in the video because it might be a little confusing.
The beast claw weapon seems related to the beast claw greathammer (the weapon which tells us Serosh was lord of the beasts) the beast claw weapon reads as follows.
"Weapon in the form of a carnivorous beast's vicious claws. Used to perform bestial slashing attacks uncanny to humankind. An imitation of the esoteric technique of the horned warriors. Those who carry this weapon wield it as though they have been possessed by a savage beast."
The weapon tells us that the user fights with it as if he was possessed by a savage beast and that this is technique is an imitation of the horned warriors technique.
I believe that's exactly what Godfrey did when he killed Serosh, he absorbed Serosh and used his power, "possessed by a savage beast" here makes a ton of sense.
11:40 what could be seen as "rays" from the crown on the Hawk's head could actually be curly horns. Neat connection.
Something I wanted to add which I originally did in a comment thread but feel could be interesting to note in general;
It is alluded to in some item descriptions that Godfrey and Serosh might be the first case of grafting in the Lands Between and that this practice was inspiring his descendants in the golden lineage, like Godrick and Godefroy. Furthermore, it is directly stated by the Godfrey Icon item description that "he took the Beast Regent Serosh upon on his back to suppress the ceaseless lust for battle that raged within", in order to become Elden Lord.
What this tells us is that Serosh isn't just his advisor and the Lord of Beasts, but that him sitting on his back and chomping on his shoulder is actively making him weaker than he should be, I.E. Serosh is a literal power limiter. Being possibly grafted onto Godfrey, he can't remove himself even if he wanted to (further proven by how he is still sitting on Godfreys back even as the latter is dead and stabbed into a tree). The only way for Godfrey to potentially do his duty, to brandish the Elden Ring, become Elden Lord once more and defeat us players is by embracing his past strength as Hoarah Loux, and the only way to do that is to remove the one thing keeping him from going back to that state, that being Serosh.
With this added context, Godfrey killing Serosh for his boss fights second phase isn't him being an ungrateful douchebag to Serosh just 'cause, he literally complements the beast and acknowledges his importance in his life. It's just that they are up against an unstoppable force and Godfrey needs to become an immovable object in response, something that Serosh I believe, from his time in the era where "a crown is warranted with strength", would fully understand. He MIGHT be taking Serosh's power, but the important part is that he removes the limiter to his already existing power.
PS: It is also a headcanon of mine that Serosh is also Godfreys emotional outlet, taking his intense emotions and keeps him calmly thinking, which is why while Godfrey is cradling Morgotts corpse while visibly and audibly calmly mourning the loss, Serosh is roaring at the top of his lungs in what can be interpreted as complete anguish. And after Serosh's death Hoarah Loux loses the suppression on his emotions, causing himself to roar in an unknown emotion, I interpret it as him experiencing every single emotion at full blast for the first time since his crowning.
The sap made him a golden puppet. 14:51 the sap is the same as the potion Ranni kills you for trying to make her drink it. It controls your fate. Amber is fossilized sap.
|AMBER STARLIGHT:
An ephemeral sliver that gives off a pale amber glow.
What remains of a passing flash of starlight.
If the stars command our fates,
then amber-hued stars must command the fates of the gods.
Such is the belief that inspired the use of these shards to prepare a most special draught.
Cannot be consumed by mere humans.
This is why Nepheli drinks the blue potion. Generational trauma. The story repeats again.
Oh! That's HOW he was subjugated by Marika! I wondered why such Alpha would let himself be used and abused...
Incredible analysis. Grounded yet creative :D
Daenerys hair style sure looks familiar here 24:24
Miquella, ah haircut
Godfrey is the greatest character in Elden Ring
he doesn't use incantations or sorceries, the blood of a god does not run through his veins and he doesn't have powers from an outer god.
he doesn't have great runes, and while others battle and fight wars to gain powers he seals his own power, even in his first death he died with Serosh
The first Elden Lord and the ONLY character in Elden ring with a remembrance in his name "Remembrance of Hoarah Loux"
Lol so he wasn't smart enough to cast a sorcery? And had not the conviction to use a simple heal? What kind of flex is that. He's a Meathead and Marika didn't betray him, what she did allowed him and his descendants to be free from what took her centuries to unravel.
@@Jadizi it's called being a warrior...something you don't comprehend
he can learn sorcery but it's for the weak, warriors want to reach greater heights with their own strength
and Godfrey in his 2nd phase throws his weapon only using his hands
all characters are using sorcery or incantation and yet they are not stronger than Godfrey who only uses raw strength
if you still think this is not a flex then there is something wrong with your brain
It also makes sense why Marika Seduces Horrah Loux.
She needed a Lord in order to become a god.
Just like Miquella needed Radahn to be the god of compassion.
Northerner description: A face found among the hardy people of the unforgiving north. Some say they're descended from giants.
I theorize Godfrey/Hoarah Loux is based on the Irish hero Lugh. Lugh's mother is Ethniu (or "Enia"), and her father was Balor, a one-eyed Giant. Godfrey might be the grandson of the Fell God. Since he's an old man by the time we meet him, it might not be crazy to theorize he had red hair at one point. Messmer's flame works the same way the Fell God's does in burning a tree.
Likewise, on the opposite side, there's Rennala, a giantess. Her mother, possibly Renna, might have been a Finger Crone like Enia.
Great video!
When you brought up the storm lord I genuinely gasped
Also, Messmer knows what a tarnished is, and since the Tranished existed only when Godfrey was banished
The only thing I don't find makes sense is Serosh being the Lord of Beasts in the Land of Shadow. The Divine Beasts are specifically "Horn deck'd" and Serosh has no horns. For that It seems Serosh was the Lord of Beasts in Farum Azula - Godfrey's own Greataxe bears resemblance to the designs of Faruma Azula's Beastmen as well- as opposed to the Highland Axe, which has leaf filigree detail instead.
As for the "Divine Bird", the Stormhawk King was a King, not divine- but there was another bird who was: Twinbird. She was the envoy for an Outer God and was mother to the Deathrite Birds. Not saying the Stormhawk King isn't significant to the Loux line, he clearly is, but I don't believe he was the divine bird for Ornis.
tbh at this point i consider as canon lore whatever this guy says, like I CAN'T SEE ANY MISSING POINTS THIS VIDEO IS SO GOOD
Super glad you enjoyed my friend, thanks you ❤️
Note that Godfreys axe has the same patterning as the Beasts Great Curved Sword.
I think there is a very important connection there.
Miazaki has a real good chance to write books, or have them written explaining more to the story of everyone not all of it, but more lore for fans to snap up like starving paranahs.
I really hope Vaati, Smough town, Ratatoskyr, Tarnished Archaeologist, Lowkey.
Your watch thus video.
Your points makes so many sense.
Stop, stop, you're making too much sense! :D
Also, Godfrey's facital hair and part of hair is braided in a spiral. Just sayin'.
What if misbegotten are just different beast with intelligence? Stormhawks,wolves,and lions to be exact? Some fly, the big red ones look like red wolves in a human form, and the ones with the cleavers have lion like faces with blue eyes.
I think youre theory is good in some points but not lore accurate in others...but its a nice video
Im not agree with serosh, godwyn and the seduction
But the origin of godfrey its ok, the reason of the crussade its ok too, and the timeline its (mostly) ok
But serosh its from farum azula, so godfrey battled first placidusax (hoara loux, not godfrey)
Here, the lord of beast serosh, in service of dragonlord, was took, and godfrey born...he decides to act as lord, and serosh begins yo act as his regent
Then, the erdtree born and the fire giants war occurs
Then, he beat the hawk of the storm, the stormking
A crown its warranted with strenght, and placidusaxx was elden lord...so godfrey neeeded to beat the dragonlord to be elden lord, and then, act as a defender of the erdtree, then, bring war yo the world to mantain the erdtree safe
Morgott abd mohg are the firstborns of godfrey, not godwyn
(Godwyn was born when the primordial energy begins to weakened, thats why he is more human and younger than morgott looks, plus, the sigil of morgott shacles and everything related to morgott abd mohg its from the bounty age and the crucible, and the sigil of the era of godwyn its the normal erdtree, you can see this in the incantation to resist lightning and the leyndell symbol of leyndell knights, instructed by godwyn)
Finally, the seduction its ftom the 2 fingers to marika
They offer marika power, cause she is and empyrean chosen to start a new age, the erdtree age
So they gave her support and marika appears in belurat, as the primissed god of the hornsent, the one who would guide her to the divinity they wanted
But divinity its a prision
Marika was betrayed, and during all her life, was a slave of the golden order...this, made her lost faith, and then she decides to destroy de erd, the golden order and break the e.r
Piece by piece you'll put it together. Then we can review it all and reflect.
What do you thing of a idea that Mesmer and Melina were children of Gloan Eyed Queen, Marika's sister and adopted or stolen and raised by Marika?
I think Pasidusax was defeated by Godfrey first then Bayle finished him off.
You think the reason godfrey choose to fight placi alone is because placi is already damaged due to his fight with bayle so godfrey choose to do a fair 1v1 duel instead of ganking on him with his golden army.
Call it cope, but even after the DLC, I was still convinced Godfrey battled Placidusax. My rationalization was, while Placidusax lost two of his heads in his battle with Bayle, he lost another in his battle with Godfrey much later.
So you mean to say the Divinw beast are inspired from Serrosh
And the Divine Bird are inspired from the Storm Lord.
Nice video. I get caught up with the divine invocation of the hornsent versus dragon communion.
What i mean is the consumption of "spirit" versus "flesh." Hornsent continually summon the spirits of their defeated enemies and gained increased powered. But, with dragon communion, the individual has to literally eat a heart of flesh or stone everytime for increased power.
Idk, cannibalism is a theme throughout Dark Souls and Bloodborne, so I think I'm partly trained to look for cannibalism in these games 😂.
But, I get "Soylent Green" vibes from the Lord's Bestowal talisman. You could compare "sap" to "blood" and that Godfrey has pause at this new flesh consumption ritual.
This makes me think of the raw meat dumpling. Implied to be human flesh, it both heals you and poisons you.
@mariodiaz2449 Nice point. I forgot about that item.
There is the Revenger's Shack where we find all the raw meat dumplings, as part of the frenzy flame quest, where the maiden eats eye balls
Man your videos are amazing. Great evidence and i do think it makes sense. My question is, in light of this evidence, where does the Gloam-Eyed Queen fit in?
The current most believable theory is that GEQ was Marika's past title, before becoming Marika, the Eternal she was Marika, the gloam eyed queen
Thank you my friend, about the gloam eyed queen I still can't get my head wrapped around it.
There are a couple of theories flying around but, I really feel something is missing. Something we are yet to discover.
I'm kinda in a "middle-camp" regarding this. On the one hand, I agree with the Alchemist that Melina has an Outer God of Death within her. But on the other hand, I do believe that Melina IS the Gloam Eyed Queen, not that that's the name of the Outer God (who may well be the Twinbird's Outer God).
My reasoning is that an Outer God and an Empyrean are two different things and the GEQ is very clearly identified as the latter category. Adding to this, the Blackflame Monks are very explicitly identified as having aligned themselves with the _god-slaying_ black flames, which would mean the Fire Monks already existed so the Giants were already defeated and the Age of the Erdtree began. We must remember that if they retained their god-slaying properties, then it must have been around the time of the GEQ, before Death was sealed by Marika into Maliketh's Black Blade. This is also assuming that Age of the Erdtree =/= Golden Order and the latter began only after the age of plenty (the Erdtree's first phase) ended, but both would fall under the "Age of the Erdtree".
With all of this being said, it would be dishonest of me not to clarify that I'm 100% biased in favor of Melina being the GEQ, as I find personal satisfaction in the very concept from a character standpoint. But of course, I am also aware that this opinion is far from being universally agreed upon.
Thank you for reading my essay. Cheers!
Still waiting for a proper timeline depiction after the dlc lore bombs
Good video 👍
I love the analysis in the first part of the video, but something doesn't click for me in the speculation at the end.
First of all Messmer's crusade happened BEFORE Tarnished were banished. Messmer recognizes the PC as tarnished. He wouldn't have Godfrey's soldiers if they already left for badlands.
Secondly, I am still bewildered how Horax fot himself subjugated. Such powerful, dominant, testosterone juggernaut would not freely let himself be used and abused by Marika.
WHY did he exchnaged divine incantation for erdtree SAP, took on Serosh and let himself be exiled? The nature of 'seduction' must be much more sinister. E.g. mind control spell or other form of manipulation.
Also, erdtree stopped producing SAP, because it was burned (dust in capital) and replaced with golden illusion that became the dead object of faith.
Reading below comments I found my answers: Marika gave Horax an Amber drought, which controls one's fate. He became her puppet.
It would be interesting if he attained that high standing maybe even that if a lord, and if he chose for Marica to return through the divine gate, that being the seduction I stress of his chosen consort perhaps the gloom eyed queen, there’s not a lot of basis for this, but I think I’d be an interesting idea
What happened to the mistranslation video?
It's still there, I had a technical RUclips issue with it so it's unlisted atm.
Will bring it back soon though.
@@G4meplus Oh ok
Rock on
"... Without any sign of wavering."
This means he did not waver. Unless there is another piece of lore that specifies Godfrey was wavering in his thoughts and/ or internally, the talisman tells us that, externally, he did not show any signs of wavering.... Which, again, means he did not waver.
P.S.
Apologies if this correction was already pointed out.
You think Horah Loux tamed the Elden beast for marika?
Why would Godfrey be the seduction? If there's anyone who's chad enough to be with Marika it'd be Godfrey