Why useless decongestants are still for sale
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2023
- Phenylephrine doesn’t work better than a placebo. So why is it still on shelves?
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If you’ve taken an over-the-counter decongestant in the past 20 years, you’ve probably taken something with phenylephrine as the main active ingredient. A Food and Drug Administration panel recently recommended that it be taken off shelves because it doesn’t work any better than a placebo. What happened?
In the above video, Vox’s Phil Edwards chronicles the history of the FDA’s regulation of over-the-counter medicines. That process is the reason that, despite decades of evidence that phenylephrine doesn’t work (especially in typical OTC doses), it’s remained an option for consumers.
Watch the above video to learn more.
Further reading:
Here’s the Congressional Research report on FDA regulation of over-the-counter drugs, if you want a rich primer: crsreports.congress.gov/produ...
This is the PowerPoint given before the FDA panel presentation and discussion on Phenylephrine, and it’s probably the most digestible way to get the full debate: www.fda.gov/media/171971/down...
Here’s Part II of the FDA’s Zoom meeting on Phenylephrine (including the vote and discussion): • September 11-12, 2023 ...
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The "PE" stands for Placebo Effect.
😂
I love it 🤣
Do you have ED or ...?
I thought it stood for Phil Edwards the producer of this episode
Ayoooo
As somebody who's suffered from allergies my whole life, I've been able to tell you for decades that phenylephrine was worthless.
Have you tried megadosing vitamin D to improve your immune system?
@@CourtneyCoulsonthey have allergies. Their immune system is plenty strong!
Any other drugs that don't work we don't know of?
@@CourtneyCoulson Sounds like a great way to suffer from acute hypervitaminosis
I tried it twice and noticed it did nothing. Never bought it again thereafter.
If it's proven to be ineffective, and has been, wouldn't this be a clear case of false advertising or even fraud and open itself up to legal action from consumers?
lets get a class action!
That’s what I was thinking. It’s expensive and I’m just imagining how much they’ve made off a fraudulent product.
They can always claim it was tested for safety, and that the original tests they made for it showed it was effective because of the methodology of the test. _"people were happy with it, we just never re-tested it with the new testing protocols"._
Of course they knew and of course they'll wash their hands clean
"Have you ever taken any product containing phenylephrine? You could be entitled to roughly 11¢ compensation. Simply complete this form…"
@@arothmanmusic The goal would be to get it off the shelves, not to make money. The settlement would likely cover lawyers fees, so there’s at least some incentive for someone to take the case.
It felt like an open secret most people just didn't bother to hear. Since 2005 I've advised anyone I knew was sick to go "get the real medicine" behind the counter.
Yeah I thought this was common knowledge
I would call my doctor and ask for it and how I sounded over the phone would be enough for a diagnosis. I don't think they minded missing out on an opportunity to bill insurance for the appointment because they would rather people not come in while having a cold.
Same. it was a no brainer
@Luke5100But many people don't have that kind of relationship with a doctor.
What does the doctor prescribe for a decongestant?
i'm not even a little surprised a useless medication was allowed to stay on shelves in the US
Not just in the USA, we have it here in Australia as well. How many hoops you must jump through to get pseudoephedrine depends on the state you live in.
In europe we have an alternative called xylometazoline, is that one not available in the US?
There are some side effects, but mostly with people who overuse it like it's candy
@@Monjipour According to Wikipedia: "As of 2021, a number of consumer products containing xylometazoline are marketed in the United States." It doesn't say how long ago it was first approved, but we've had OXYmetazoline available as a nasal spray since at least the late 2000s, and I can attest that it works quite well.
Given that homeopathy was written into some of our medical oversight by a congressman who was a practitioner I also am not surprised.
And pushed by medical professionals
It is a weird thing that only people who were alive during that particular meth epidemic are aware that you have to go behind the counter for the effective medicine.
also the people who are trying to actually illegally make meth,
The reality is the actually psudoephedrine purchase limits are still enough to make plenty, by the looks of it the only thing moveing it behind the counter did was let a company sell an eye surgury drug as an ineffective decongestant for decades
This tripped me up for a second because this entire process was already gone through in 1940’s
@@therideneverends1697most meth is imported from overseas factories these days
@@therideneverends1697its not worth it though with how cheap the cartels have made meth as low as 450 dollars an ounce. It would cost you like 20 to 30 dollars a gram by buying sudafed and the other ingredients and it would probably be crapy compared to the huge crystals u would get on the street.
Correct! I have to tell my younger friends that the cold meds that actually work are behind the counter. So many do not know that. 😮
They demonized pseudoephedrine 20 years ago because of meth. But it really is the only thing that works on colds and flu. So when I get sick, I trudge in to the only pharmacy in my town that sells generic Sudafed. I give them my drivers license and am on a law enforcement reporting list every time I need it. It's a pain, but it's the only med that works!🤷♀️x
funny how easy it is to get Fentanyl on the street tho.
@@Gee-xb7rt too bad it doesn't work as a decongestant (kidding)
@@cathrinewhite7629it can decongest you permanently
Wait until people realize whata happening with other drugs the media tells them to use
I don't think the average person knows how to make meth. I sure don't. Why they treat everybody like they do is beyond me.
i remember when i suffered from chronic congestion. i remember driving to three stores who didn't have anyone on duty at the time to unlock the sudafed case. because of the moronic nature of the war on drugs, it was much easier to get a hold of meth than sudafed
Does meth help with congestion? Asking for a friend 😂
Amphetamine was originally developed as a decongestant. It wasn't ideal for that as it worked in doses that most people found intensely uncomfortable. They used it originally in nasal inhalers.
My sentiments exactly when moving back to the US and trying to refill a prescription for ADD meds. So infuriating coming from a country where I could get either prescription or illicit drugs via delivery. They should just legalise all drugs and treat addiction with education and a decent public health system
It is not easier to get methamphetamine than Sudafed. This is just a silly dramatization.
@@jakeabc123 It can be.
I've been an Urgent Care PA for several years now and was so glad when I saw this news break recently. Providers who are up to date with the literature have known for a long time that PE was useless. And then patients come in thinking they have something really bad going on because it doesn't help. These companies have always known PE didn't work and should be held accountable
Wow that's just despicable
Also prescribing decongestants or really even suggesting them is not a good idea. They often don’t work and do nothing to shorten the illness. It’s another bandaid patients are obsessed with because god forbid you tell them to drink some water and get some rest.
It works for me when I have mild congestion. I always buy it.
Went to urgent care a few years ago and my physician said “that PE stuff doesn’t work. Don’t waste money. Go behind the counter” and then kind of ranted how F’d up healthcare is. When I heard the ineffective drug story break I thought back to what he said.
@@granola_green A mild congestion doesn't last long!* Anything that doesn't make it worse will be just as effective!
*Unless you're like me in which case you're almost always congested.
It would be weird if we didn’t have problems with the way our healthcare system is structured
that wouldn't be profitable
Like if money in politics wasnt allowerd where the healthcare industry is incentivized to pay politicians to pass laws making healthcare more expensive? That would be super weird
If only USA had universal healthcare like Europe, but nope, that's too socialist for murica 😂
@@tomaccinothis medication is OTC in the UK and AU so how you operate the healthcare system isn’t the issue. Considering a government agency, the FDA, is the issue here.
@@tomaccino Clearly you're not actually European, or you'd know that "universal healthcare" doesn't mean the whole system is nationalized; it just means you get insurance for free. Still a good thing to have, but private, profit-driven businesses shouldn't even be allowed to exist in this space.
My doctors have been telling me for years not to bother with phenylephrine, and I could tell from personal experience that it did eff all, but I had always assumed it simply worked for some people but not me. Learning that it was actually never good for anyone, period, is astonishing.
I’m sick and have been taking an off-brand of Sudafed PE the last day or two…and noticed my congestion wasn’t changing so switched to a different med. I thought it was just me. It all makes sense now!
Medications that don’t work shouldn’t be on the market. The American public puts their trust into these agencies…how disappointing.
It's called THEFT.
The companies are disappointing. They always are. The american way.
Also the american way? Class action lawsuits for fraudulent marketing
Maybe the American government should put more money into those agencies so they can actually do their jobs, instead of just buying more bombs and fighter jets and whatever...
@@teagan_p_999something something free market something something that's socialism . (I'm being sarcastic)
Although ORAL phenylephrine does not work, phenylephrine nasal spray is an effective decongestant when used short-term for a cold. A better alternative, however, is oxymetazoline (e.g., Afrin) decongestant nasal spray, which works longer than phenylephrine nasal spray for a cold. Remember, only use these for a few days to avoid rebound congestion associated with chronic use. OTC topical nasal corticosteroid sprays (e.g., Flonase) are remarkably effective for congestion due to allergies. Oral pseudoephedrine is the only oral option for a cold, but OTC antihistamines both oral and nasal sprays might help some patients. Talk to your pharmacist.
Afrin is kind of terrifying and I never found Flonase or Nasacort effective. I have pretty severe mold allergies and the only thing that works is oral antihistamines and avoiding exposure.
Finally a sensible knowledgeable comment!
@@francisnopantses1108 There is nothing terrifying about oxymetazoline but using it regularly for allergy relief is a bad idea because over time it will stop working. Afrin (and the gazillion equivalents sold all over the world) is a very effective decongestand designed to be used for a period of a few days during intense cold and phase it out ASAP. That way you can rely on it long term.
Yep. Last cold I had, the real pseudoephedrine worked, but not enough...it wasnt the "right" kind of congestion, I guess. Pseudo works great if I'm truly blocked up/snotty, but if I'm just swollen/drippy, it's a coin toss.
I scoured my med cabinet and found some phenylephrine liquid nasal drops, and tried them in spite of the recent "but phenylephrine doesn't work!" news....and it honestly helped quite a bit.
The delivery method DOES matter. And you'll notice that the video specifically mentions ORAL phenylephrine as being the med that was looked at/doesn't work, it just didn't highlight that fact.
Xylometazoline or oxymetazoline as well as other nasal sprays isn't so suitable for casual carrying as antiflu variants are, already presented in many dosage forms, from granulated envelopes to liquid sticks. Stability and integrity of the API are vital when compared to general effectiveness.
While phenylephrine is completely useless in any possible presentation, point here is that marketing dictates most OTC formulations in pharma industry, so we have them everywhere besides having a terrible reputation between experts.
....when I was younger, I'd be given these meds when I had a cold or allergy issue, and every time I was like 'it isn't helping' but no one listened to me. so, turns out, I was right all along. that also explains why the meds I picked out for myself when I was older DID help, because I poked around til I found ones that did work, instead of being told 'its working stop complaining.' I think I know if a medicine is making my face hurt less or not!
Welcome to the wide world of medical gaslighting. Its a problem with MANY ailments and meds
I'm sorry people invalidated your experience. I'm glad you can do better for yourself now:)
Phenylephrine is a TOPICAL vasodilator. It generally only works on mucous membranes by direct contact and this was noted when pseudoephedrine was pulled from shelves. I read articles about this ages ago about how PE simply wouldn't work. It's neutralized in stomach acid.
The thing is pseudoephedrine is so much harder to come by that one joke scientific journal article proposed a way to synthesize it from meth instead because "it would be of great interest to have a simple synthesis of pseudoephedrine from reagents which can be more readily procured"
A big problem for families with children under 18 is that when one person gets sick, usually others are also sick, whether it’s a respiratory virus or inherited seasonal allergies. But the monthly limit isn’t enough to treat 3 or more people when only 1 or 2 of them is old enough to buy it.
The monthly limit for Pseudophedrine in the US is 9 grams or approximately 300 pills worth. Either your state has a smaller limit or y'all are overusing those pills, just saying, especially if it's being giving to kids.
@@KC-Mitch 9 grams comes to 75 of the 12-hour pills of 120mg each, taken twice a day, and one adult with an ID can get one pack per month, which would be enough to last 2 people only 18 days, assuming neither person is sick enough to need it longer. But it’s not enough for more people than that when everyone in the family gets hit with the same bad virus or seasonal allergies and anyone needs to take it more than 12 days, which is especially common in families that have members with asthma and other conditions that make them develop more serious respiratory symptoms. And people with that higher risk are also less likely to be able to go out and get it separately due to other health conditions. So like many things, it’s often harder to get for the people who need it the most.
And it’s the same dose for “kids” 12 and over, but they obviously still can’t buy their own for another 6 years, so, “just saying,” that part of your comment is irrelevant. The flu, RSV, and covid rips through high schools full of “kids.”
@@KC-Mitch
That's helpful. I apparently worry too much because I buy 36 pills every week to 10 days depending on how often i take them.
You should also be careful, as using too much decongestants can actually cause congestion! They become less effective with overuse (rebound congestion)
In Australia you can only get one box a month but even then they can refuse if they think your using too much. I have to say though any good pharmacist will understand if you have many people and will let you buy more if you run out quickly. you just cant get more than 1 box in a day.
I remember when I was younger how effective Sudafed was. As an adult with some worsening allergies, of course I went for Sudafed (PE) because of my memories of it, only to have it be completely useless. Thank goodness I can still get Pseudoephedrine behind the counter, because it actually works.
Why wasn’t the word “FRAUD” used in this video?… pretty sure using deception for personal gain is illegal
Because the drug companies pay their lawyers *really* well.
It's only illegal if you're an individual and not wealthy.
Because America being a wealth cult goes deep. 😅
Vox would probably get hit with a cease and desist from pharm companies
This is why I only buy the behind the counter decongestant. When they moved what I used to by over the counter to behind, I found the over the counter stuff didn’t work. The decongestants keep me from getting sinus infections so I need them to work! Thank you for validating me so many years later!!
Exactly!
the war on drugs takes another victim: our nasal passages
I have no problem going up to the counter to ask for Sudafed, but if you're like me and realize you need medication at 10pm and the pharmacy counter is closed, you're SOL in the US until the next day.
At this point, I think alot of products on the supermarket shelf aren't as advertised.
I remember trying this once years ago. It didn't do anything, so I've never bought it again. So I have to ask, why do people continue to buy something that doesn't help? Go for the sudaphed instead. It works like a charm.
Same. I'm convinced I'm just immune to the placebo effect.
What this person said👆 no1 does proper research and they kinda force it on people. It's called capitalism
Why do so many people continue to be completely convinced that ivermectin is a cure for Covid? Because science and truth don't matter.
The problem is that they are both labeled sudaphed despite having different “active” ingredients.
The peudoephedrine was put "behind the counter", simply not purchaseable unless you interface with the American medical insurance system to get a prescription, with all the costs, wait, and complexity that brings. And pharmacies were ALSO forced by the PATRIOT act to take your ID when you received sudafed and put your name on a list of potential terrorists/drugdealers/witches.
If you can't get an appointment until 8 days in the future, and you have an illness that's likely to last 3 more days, there is a very clear message being sent.
So because the DEA didn't do their job, we have this nonsense.
You could say they were doing their job exactly as intended. If their job is to allow drugs companies to make money unimpeded by regulation
@@WhichDoctor1 You're thinking of FDA. I'm referring to DEA.
You're kinda both wrong - neither the DEA nor the FDA had the proper funding to actually do what needed to be done. It was only until COVID that the relevant health and drug agencies were given the capability to do stuff outside of menial paperwork processing.
@@agbarugo exactly, if you don't fund an agency, it can't do it's job
@@agbarugo+++
I was mocked for years because i was accused of distrusting over the counter medicine. I didn't distrust it, i just didn't believe it worked for me. Then i started seeing articles like this.
I’ve always knew Phenylephrine never worked, Pseudoephedrine always worked for me and I always try to get when I have severe nasal congestion. The last few years I’ve been diagnosed with Nasal Polyps and awaiting surgery. Pseudoephedrine is still my go to decongestant.
Canadians are lucky to get ephedrine over the counter. It works SO WELL
Cuz it has negative effects bro..
@@XTen1000DaysX Cuz people were using it to make meth, bro...
We can still get it OTC you just have to give a government ID with it and it keep track of how much you buy and if you hit the "ok that's probably enough to make meth" threshold in a month you can't buy it for a while. So your doc doesn't have to write an Rx but it's still a few hoops to cross.
And it's bad for your heart.
Ephedrine is available OTC in the USA under the brand name bronkaid
I could have told you years ago it didn’t work. I realized really quick and started buying the stuff behind the pharmacy counter with the pseudoephedrine in it.
Yeah I had never used anything other than Pseudoephedrine until college. My wife, well girlfriend at the time, was sensitive to it so we got some cold medicine without it. I went back out to get myself something that actually worked after the first time I tried the other stuff. Lol
Same, and I would tell friends the same thing.
I know I've used Vicks vaporub way too many times I've lost count of it. Decongestants allow you to breathe properly without feeling you might be sacrificed for Halloween season.
When I worked in a pharmacy back in 2008, part of our training course was about pse and pe. It highlighted how ineffective pe was and that a best recommendation would be an otc medication without pe (such as cough and pain) alongside pse from behind the counter.
Thank you so much for making this! As someone who has tried hundreds of these, and none of them worked, it means a lot to know why!
Phenylephrine does work well as a nasal spray however. "Four Way Fast Acting Nasal Spray" is my go to for congestion. Literally 30 seconds and I can breathe again. WalMart has an Equate version too.
this spray isn’t safe to use every day. i was dependent on it for a long time and couldn’t breathe properly without it
Yep. Nasal spray addiction I heard.
In Australia you are allowed a box of 12 tablets every 3 days. They take your license and enter it into a national database. People of had issues where a license number has been mistyped and somehow matched theirs meaning they have to wait.
That's basically how it is in most of the states too. You don't need a doc Rx just a government ID and it tracks how much you/your household address buy in a months time.
What state/when was that? It's all prescription only now. Same as codine
@@phil2782I bought pseudoephedrine over the counter in Utah today. Only needed my ID. I’ve also bought it without a prescription in South Dakota when I got a cold on vacation
What are you talking about? A box of 12 tablets…. Which tablets?
I’ve never seen PE in Australia… Not on the shelf or behind the counter
"People of had"? What happened to (ha)'ve ?
Literally about to go to the store to buy some…perfect time LOL
impeccable timing, in fact I couldn't possibly imagine the timing being any less pecced
bring your ID so you can get the stuff that works!
I actually bought the PE yesterday since the congestion was so bad, and then see this in my feed today
Nice. Ask at the pharmacy counter for some lol. Get the good stuff
I figured this out as soon as they made the switch when pseudoephedrine started being rationed and kept behind the counter rather than in the medicine isle. The first time I accidentally bought a product that now contained phenylephrine instead it obviously wasn't working the same.
Ive spent years taking PE and didnt realize it wasnt working. I bought actual Sudafed the other night and experienced side effects, but also experienced noticeable relief. And the reason I didnt just buy it in the past?
Laziness. I didnt wanna wait in a long pharmacy line when i could buy "pretty much the same thing" from a shelf and be done with it.
Wow. I just got over some illness where I was severely congested for almost 2 weeks. I bought multiple oral medications (pills) containing phenylephrine and was complaining about it not working at all. However, I also bought nasal spray phenylephrine and that DID work amazingly. One spray up each nostril and I was breathing within ~15-20 seconds. But the pills were utterly useless.
With pseudoephedrine being behind the counter, it means waiting for the pharmacist and there is always such a long line / wait to even talk to them. When you're just congested, you don't want to deal with that, so it is no wonder phenylephrine became so heavily used. I just wish there was a way we could make it easier for legitimate customers to by the pseudoephedrine and prevent the meth cookers from getting it.
In Canada you can buy it in combination with ibuprofen or acetaminophen or whatever in front of the counter, but the pseudoephedrine-only pills are behind.
The current system isn't exactly keeping them from cooking meth, anyway
I have had severe allergies for most of my life and went from one otc to the next. None were more effective than an hour. Then I got cancer but survived happily. After that I decided no more meds. I found 3 things together that basically eliminated allergies from my life for the last 10 years. One, I have "good" air purifiers all over my house and in my office. Just a bit of dust gets me sneezing. My air cleaner can clean the room in 15 minutes. Two, I use sinus rinse like neilmed. Takes about 5 uses to learn how to use it and get used to it but it gives instant symptom relief and good for a few hours. After a few years I feel like my body is now more resistant and the benefits last most of the day instead of a few hours. Finally, I get congested on planes of the flight is more than 4 hours. So in those cases I will take an advil or tylenol or aleeve since all I need is relief from sinus swelling. While still annoying Allergies have not been something I stress over in nearly 10 years. It's more like an itchy bug bite now. Say no to those otc allergy pills.
Can I ask what sort of air purifiers you consider to be good? Considering getting one myself
Thank you for doing this! I think I was duped once. Since then, I insist on Pseudoephedrine even though it's a huge PITA to get. Though, I mainly use loratadine if I have mild-to-moderate cold/drainage symptoms.
In my state, you must go to the pharmacy and show ID to get the " original Sudafed," but in my county, you must have a prescription. I understand the reasons why this step was taken (my county is high on the meth production list), but that doesn't change the fact that it causes a bit of a hardship for anyone wanting effective decongestants. A doctor's visit just to get a prescription for a decongestant can be high in medical costs and, for many, requires time away from work to attend. I don't mind asking at the pharmacy, but requiring a prescription is a step too far.
In Mexico we can’t even buy Pseudoephedrine and it’s legally banned, so the only option since 2008 it’s been only Phenylephrine so basically we have no options 😢
I sense a Cartel marketing opportunity...
Walt, what about the entire pharmacies you have all over the place where you can just buy powerful prescription drugs of all manner over the counter???!
Really? There go my plans to visit Mexico.
But Mexico probably has a good climate for growing many things, and pseudoephedrine & ephedrine are natural components of Ephedra.
You may find that the nasal spray decongestants work, but you shouldn't take them for more than 3 days or you may get rebound congestion.
Tried PE once. Didn’t work. Haven’t used it since. Honestly a little surprised that people actually still use it.
I remember when the law requiring pseudoephedrine go behind the counter that I immediately felt like phenylephrine was garbage compared to it but then I somehow managed to gaslight myself into thinking I was just noceboing myself and that surely it must work and eventually I came to think/feel that phenylephrine does work which just goes to show the importance of placebo controlled studies.
So that's why Sudafed doesn't seem to help my sinus congestion anymore. I didn't know the good stuff is behind the counter.
Can you please do a part 2 on why Vick's vapo rub is weak now? And how addictive the origonal neocitran was?
So...can we get our money back from buying meds that don't work?? I know the answer but still, ugh
Luckily we can still buy Advil Cold & Sinus "Classic" with pseudoephedrine --you just have to ask for it at the pharmacy and give over your government ID info to get it. 😅 Nothing else works for me.
Advil Cold & Sinus behind the counter is the holy grail
Makes you wonder what other treatments they push that may be largely ineffective???
The answer to that, is Panadol (paracetamol). Which has also been found to be equally or less affective than placebo.
I know this because I have pain, and anytime I take it, it does literally nothing.
Most vitamins and supplements aren't fda approved and are essentially bunk u less you actually need it.
Phil Edwards is a gem and I'm glad to see him both here and on his own channel. I was a little surprised when I found that the decongestant my doctor had recommended was only available behind the counter because reasons explained in this video.
Very educational and dam interesting.I am from the UK and my chemist warned me about these 15 years ago, now his advice makes more sense and although I didn’t understand at the time I do now,thank you for your content.😊🙏
Guaifenesin is the other big thing in that aisle of the pharmacy, and it also doesn't work. It was introduced into Robitussin / dextromethorphan because it induces vomiting in recreational quantitites. The DEA eyed ALL the effective cold medicine and threatened or forced manufacturers to put them behind the counter if they continued to fuel recreational use. So the compromise was to switch or to literally poison them.
Could you point to evidence of this? I don’t recall ever not being able to get dextromethorphan without guaifenesin. I specifically look for one with both because the guaifenesin helps “moisten” a dry cough.
Guaifenesin (Mucinex) does seem to work for me. I take the big 12-hour horespills and they seem to cut back on my congestion. Of course, it's hard to tell scientifically because I've got no control group for my own sinuses. :)
It works but only if you stay very well hydrated.
Guaifenesin definitely works for what it does. It's not a decongestant, and not an antitussive.
Mucinex works but it's not a drying decongestant. It is not like pseudoephedrine (you can take these together hence the reason for the combo meds). It works to loosen the mucus you already have in your sinuses or lungs so if that is not your issue you won't find relief. Plus you need to take it for a few consecutive days for the ingredient to work. I also agree with another poster in this thread to drink a lot of water with it as it breaks down more effectively in your system.
As a doctor, I have been told on a number of occasions "How am I/my child going to get better without medication??" when they come to me with the common cold and I prescribe nothing. Predictably some would never come back to me. There will ALWAYS be a demand for OTC meds for coughs and colds. It doesn't matter if science says it doesn't work. But then there are plenty other things in life that don't work but people say they need them.
Just means you're a bad doctor. I know a lot of supplements that work like a charm, completely remover any symptoms of colds or fevers. The vast majority of Doctors nowadays are just lazy and/or full of themselves. (I'm a scientist/engineer who works for a pharma company, so Im not uneducated, so I can read and research well)
If you watched the video why don’t you treat the symptoms and tell them to get Psuedophed from behind the counter?
There will always be people like that
Genuine question and I hope I don't sound so harsh to you.
Do you have any concern on prescribing Pseudoephedrine with Paracetamol, CTM and Dextromethorphan?
I hope you don't because all of those are OTC medication for combating flu and common cold symptoms and are available outside the US
IDC if Nyquil does anything for my cold & flu, as long as it puts me out for 16 hours. So I don't have to be conscious for all of it. 😑
My wife had a severe sinus infection headache a couple days ago. Luckily I had heard about the ineffectiveness of oral phenylephrine. A very effective OTC alternative for her was a nasal spray containing oxymetazoline HCL. Took her pain from a 9 down to a 4.
For anyone else curious, after researching more, I found some other effective alternatives were pseudoephedrine (as mentioned in the video), and topically applied phenylephrine (like in a nasal spray). I hope whoever needs to hear this gets feeling better soon!
"It didn't work for me...but I keep taking it every day."
I read metastudies for fun so I knew phenylephrine was as useless as homeopathy years ago. Told everyone I knew and no one listened to me. Now that it's in the news my friend has sheepishly admitted I was right!
Yeah it’s been a nice vindication!
Lol "but they show adsss Susan "
And you show them the data but... they never listen
The best feeling lol
But its not useless. Its seriously the only stuff keeping me alive. I have chronic yeast infections and inflammation in my upper sinuses, and this stuff is the only thing that can touch it. Otherwise I am sniffling non-stop with a nasty headache.
I made the mistake of buying the PE versions a few times and quickly realized it did jack squat. So, hand over that photo ID and buy the methy circles, and enjoy a congestion free life.
Always informative. Always interesting
People with long term allergies have known it doesn’t work. When Sudafed went behind the counter, I bought a box of phenylephrine. I was miserable for a couple of days, before I went back for pseudoephedrine. I’ve never bought phenylephrine since.
I thought this was common knowledge for years. I remember a bit they did on the Colbert Report about how the OTC version contained "Jack-Squat-acil" and how Stephen needed to go to his local meth dealer to get ingredients to make an effective decongestant.
Pseudoephedrine is banned in my country due to people manufacturing methamphetamine with it.
Also cough medicines are now prescibed only by doctors in Australia. Man you guys in the usa are wild
But you can get pseudoephedrine without a prescription in Aus
I mean most people don't manufacture meth??? So it's not much of a risk to the average person.
I’ve had really really bad allergies and I want to say that ACTUAL pseudoephedrine works!
Is it really that good?? I have used benadryl but i hate it cuz on a busy day it makes me slouchy and drowsy although it helps decongest AND eliminate the allergy reactions i have wanted to use pseudoephedrine but havent found enough people telling me its really works
its sad how ineffective our important government systems are due to lack of funding, and how people want take away the meager funding that exists already
This has nothing to do with funding or not. It’s typical Corp regulatory capture. No amount of money solves that.
They're ineffective because they're the government. The government should not control drugs at all. It should test and verify contents and purity, and prosecute fraud and misrepresentation, but the consumer should decide for themselves.
Just get Decongestant nasal spray, works in seconds.
Decongests for a whole day.
$10 Canadian for a bottle.
That's great for 3 days, what about the other 4?
@@teagan_p_999 1 bottle can last for a month though, 2 squirts a nostril per day. 20-40mL bottle.
Do Guaifenesin next. Also proven ineffective.
as far as i understand its only put in cough syrups to prevent recreational use via induction of vomiting
Thank you so much for this!
This is what I watch RUclips for. EXCELLENT informative video!
How did anyone not notice it did not work? I took it one time, and it was clear the PE stood for Placebo Effect.
pseudoephedrine has been a prescription only medicine in my country New Zealand since 2011 because of the precursor effect
In Mexico we can’t even buy Pseudoephedrine and it’s legally banned, so the only option since 2008 it’s been only Phenylephrine so basically we have no options.
@@sergiofranciscomontoyacomp8566Likewise for us here in the PH.
I just bought codral original with pseudoephedrine from the Chemsit warehouse thank god it’s legal now
Glad to see Phil Edwards works on Vox! We miss you!
Used it for nearly 20 years and it totally worked for me.
What I don’t get is that people feel it is ineffective, but keep buying it… first time it didn’t do anything, I researched it, learned the scam, and have been buying the right stuff since…
I always feel so awkward going to the counter and asking for it, though. I especially hate talking to people when I'm sick. At least in Canada you can buy the combination meds in front of the counter.
Also, don't forget about the completely unregulated and untested homeopathic sugar pills that are permitted to be sold alongside real medicine on pharmacy shelves. Which sometimes contain unidentified contaminants making them not even safe.
Thanks, Phil. Hope you feel better! 😉
Thank you- i have thought this for years but just kept trying it when the pharmacy wasnt open. I just kept thinking “maybe they found a way to improve it”? Hundreds of dollars. And stopped when they came out with the Tylenol cold HBP without it in there and just bought pseudophed seperately when i could and took them together… thanks for officially confirming my suspicions
That finally makes sense. I just thought I hadn't found the right brand that worked for me so I always tried a different one. Nope, just the actual med doesn't work. Cool.
Yet another installment in the “9/11 Ruins Everything” series
I have always just used a tablespoon of Sriracha. 😂
I must have a really strong placebo effect because this stuff works for me
Works great for me too.
Three things: 1) Phenylephrine products work for me so long as I take them along with an antihistamine and an expectorant (which I’ve never found all in one product) because taking any of the three alone doesn’t work for me when I have a cold; 2) Why doesn’t this video and your others have one of those give $ buttons (I can’t remember the actual label)?; 3) Pseudoephedrine has always worked wonderfully for me, but it gives me wild insomnia and I was taking it with a bunch of other OTC meds when I had a sinus infection during quarantine and now something is wrong with my heart (something stretched out they said). I’ve heard Pseudoephedrine does greater damage to your system than phenylephrine too, but it works better. You have to pick your poison…🤷🏽♀️
I take just the antihistimine for relief.
I only want to be able to breathe again like when I was a kid.
Phil is killing it with these videos!!
Ever since I've discovered Pseudoephedrine my congestion response changed dramatically. Now I take it for both harsh allergies and strong colds/flus. Basically anything nasal.
i took one before a flight once as i had a cold and was so confused as to why my head was still exploding
Kinda reminds me of household insecticides in Philippines where after late 2000s propoxur and dichlorvos in aerosol insecticides were discontinued in newer products, and even paint strippers in US. I really hate politicizing products that are very effective.
Thank you, Phil!!!
It is interesting to see the science behind this but as someone who suffers so much with blocked sinuses, I knew that decongestants just didn't seem to work. I will use cold and flu medication, more so for the caffeine and paracetamol but if I need my sinuses clearing, I just use an OTC sinusitis spray and it works wonders
This isn't the only class of drugs where consumers routinely overestimate the power of drugs. This topic could be a segue into the strange world of oncology, where physicians and patients become emotionally invested in a product mainly because there aren't many choices. Touch that emotion and be prepared for intense backlash.
Do you have any examples? Chemo, radiation therapy, or surgery are pretty much the only oncological treatments I can think of
Oncology is a different issue... what works and what doesn't depends almost entirely on the cancer type, and in some cases people only have a couple objectively bad choices and nothing else. It *might* work, and so they have no alternative but to go all in on that drug since it's quite literally a matter of life and death.
@@smears6039 chemo is a very large group of many chemicals. In one of my 4th-year biochem classes, we've gone over a couple examples where drugs were tested and only worked in like 20% of patients, and it was later discovered that the 20% they worked in had specific gene mutations in their cancers that made the drug work. They were tried without understanding how or why they worked or didn't, so they were thrown at any patient with what they thought was the right kind of cancer.
Unfortunately, you need genetic screening to determine what the actual right kind of cancer is, and that wasn't really economical 20 years ago.
Do you remember when Vox went viral talking only about higher taxes on M4A and not acknowledging the money saved on healthcare costs?
I thought most people knew that you had to go behind the counter to get the ‘good stuff’ and give your drivers license.
One thing I should point out: Sudafed PE is a lot less common here in the UK, in fact I don't think I've seen it on a supermarket shelf anywhere (tho im sure it's sold somewhere here), so the balance of Phenylephrine vs Pseudoephedrine may more limited to the USA.
It is actually the same in the UK it's only the name that's different, the regular stuff with phenylephrine is on the shelf and the max strength one with ephedrine in it is behind the counter
Doesn't the USA have nasal sprays with Oxymetazoline against nasal congestion?
It's still to be used sparingly (tolerance building), but it works quite fast.
Yes we have nasal spray. Works wonders. I can't go without it when I'm sick. I love it
Yes, but as you mentioned it, there's the rebound congestion so you're left with finding another solution on day four or using it into the afterlife 😄
@@niknotnikki you should be slightly better by day 4.
@@niknotnikki You can get refillable nasal sprayers here. just made a saline solution to rinse out the junk :)
Coughing drugs also placebo
I was diagnosed with RA as a young child in the 80s and I have a healthy distrust of the medical and pharmaceutical industry and now the entire food industry.
So glad pseudoephedrine is OTC where I live. Helped immensely with covid & flu A
I feel validation from all the times I had to go through a background check and side eye just to buy the stuff, and swearing it actually works compared to over the counter. lol
Speaking as a future pharmacist, there are SO many OTC medications we should probably consider pulling off the shelves for safety reasons. I hope to see aspirin pulled back to Rx only at some point in my lifetime.
Regular people can’t talk to a doctor every time they have a headache or a head cold. That’s why we have OTC. Do you know how much it costs to sit down with a physician for an hour of medication review and comprehensive symptom and disease management? No one is getting that kind of service. You have 10 minutes max, and get one, maybe two, concerns partially addressed.
Aspirin? Every single senior citizen I know takes a baby aspirin every day of their lives. 😅
super cool motion graphics as usual
I have insisted the pharmacy give me regular Sudafed for years. They always give me the side eye…especially when I am out of my home state and don’t have a local ID. It gets old.