The Evolution of Methodism: From Asbury to Today
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- Dr. David Watson joins us to discuss the history and evolution of modern Methodism, particularly the journey from the days of Francis Asbury to the current state of the Methodist Church. How did we transition from the foundational influence of Asbury to the significant changes and challenges facing the Methodist Church today? We'll explore the key moments, movements, and figures that have shaped Methodism over the years and discuss the modern revolution happening within the church.
David is the Academic Dean and Professor of New Testament at United Theological Seminary and has a wealth of knowledge and experience, having authored and edited numerous publications, including Key United Methodist Beliefs; Wesley, Wesleyans, and Reading Bible as Scripture; and Scripture and the Life of God: Why the Bible Matters Today More than Ever. He's also the Lead Editor of Firebrand and co-host of the Firebrand Podcast.
Join us for this insightful conversation as we uncover the historical and theological developments in Methodism and what they mean for the future of the church. You won't want to miss this discussion with David on Methodist history and its contemporary implications.
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We disaffiliated from the UMC last year and it was one blessed decision!
It would be completely appropriate for the subtitle of this video to read "From Asbury to Absurdity".
Wesley didn’t even get born again until he met the Moravians on one of his voyages to America,in the midst of a storm he and everyone on the ship were freaked out and the Moravians were at total peace singing with the peace that surpasses all understanding which he himself didn’t have,Wesley later met with them and was born again
I love David Watson. He was one of my favorite professors and I am honored to call him friend.
Thank y'all for doing this interview. For those who are not or who have never Been in the Methodist/Wesleyan tradition I hope it was very informative. Of course, this video only scratched the surface. I personally believe that the UMC will eventually drift into irrelevance and then into oblivion. However, I believe that a fresh wind of the Holy Spirit is blowing through Methodism and the new Global Methodist Church will be a catalyst for revival and awakening in America and around the world. Years ago I was in a meeting and we were discussing the issues plaguing the UMC and many of us were very discouraged. One comment brought us back to reality: We don't have to worry about the future of the Methodism because the prayers of John Wesley are still circling the globe. Of course, it's not about denomination, it's about being faithful to the Gospel and open to the guidance and power of the Holy Spirit.
Amen!
Thanks for this episode! Greetings to you, brother David! Thanks for all your work for Methodism!
I was recently at Global Methodist Church Planting Conference. Great people. We are not joining but have family and friends in that movement.
They didn't like to admit it, but holiness has been disappearing from all denominations across every branch of Christianity for a long time, especially in America and the "global West." Perhaps it is time for all sojourners on the narrow Way of Jesus to "come out from among them, and be ye separate... [2 Corinthians 6:17]"
I have wondered about this myself. On the other hand, perhaps it is that the Lord is enforcing His definitions of Revelation chapters 1 through 3, where the profoundly corrupt are still called His churches through much.
This was a very informative podcast. Well done.
Holiness and the power of God meeting is the truth of the Kingdom of God. Lord bring us all to the fullness of sanctification and the fullness of the Spirit!
When Wesley was dying he said that his understanding of Christian perfection and whole sanctification was thr greatest reason (in his mind) that God raised up the mrthodist movement- to give that holiness to the Church at large. In his day, they preached and sought it out for all their people. But when he challeneged them to take that forward after he died, they timately over time compromised and left it aside.
Praise God that He raised up the pentecostal movement to take up the faith in holiness from Wesley and add to it the power of God! That is the faith that has now taken over the world.
“It’s like God handed them over” Maybe. So often that is the case; with nations with generations, with churches or with individuals. He is our righteous judge.
Informative discussion--as always--however, it leaves me in a state of grief and sadness to the point of tears; nothing to do with Methodism per se but the degree to which the Body of Christ is denominated ("I am of Paul." "I am of Apollos.") is the degree to which we resist and interfere with Ephesians 4:13, the degree to which we are not in unity, the degree to which we are carnal and schizo. Frankly, I believe the root cause is rejection of the Full Gospel, that is, systematic interference with the work of The Holy Spirit--His fruit, His gifts. Where the fullness of the Holy Spirit is suppressed you have carnality--no matter how sophisticated the trappings--and carnality means division; denominationalism is a sure barometer of carnality (mainly pride) in the Church.
The degree to which we become that mature man will be the degree to which we align with the Holy Spirit, who leads us into all truth.
Romans 1:21-22,27,32
[21]For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
[22]Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
[27]In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
[32]Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
I have heard that The United Methodist Church was at one time a Christian institution. Is this true?
Not the United Methodist Church in America. Outside of America and Europe Methodist Churches are still teaching the gospel and do not consider the United Methodist church Christians anymore. It bothers me that they still call themselves Methodist or Christians.
But in a way it was a good Christian denomination. It had sound doctrine before liberal people invaded the churches and ordained the wrong people.
Raised Methodist and I must attend when I visit my mother. I have not heard anything Biblical coming from there for years. I always hear anti Biblical preaching. The two Churches I have been in the last 30 years always disgust me. I can’t begin to express the disturbed “vibe” that I have when I am there. It is oppressive. I won’t attend once my mother dies even though my sister will still attend. The congregation here where I live literally crams homosexuality down your throat. They have pride flags EVERYWHERE in the building by the dozens.
By the biblical standard, no, the UMC was never a Christian institution.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 not true, if you’re Protestant theres a lot you need to learn bout the history of the church. UMC believes (or at least used to) in the fundamentals of Christianity, which includes every fundamental doctrine that every Protestant believes in. Today they are truly an apostate church for denying fundamental doctrines. It’s sad what they have done.
Praise Yahweh the one true God. Revealed Triune as Father, Spirit, and Jesus the Son, each member fully God of which there is only one. 3 distinct Persons coexistant, coequal, and coeternal sharing 1 Divine Essence. Jesus lives and is God, Christ, King. Repent of your sin and believe in Him and be saved to eternal life!
Good talk!
I'd be also quite interested in a discussion entitled "The Devolution of the Roman Church: from Paul and Peter, through Constantine, to the Medicis and beyond".
@@paulral Rather well put. We could even start a tad earlier, when authority began to be defined according to vows...of evil, as stated by the Lord. I'm not sure it's recorded just when and by whom that definition began in the church. Much unholy practice would have had to be standardized.
Now do a video of all the great charismatics of old that you lift up constantly that came from Methodist backgrounds. Or of the modern churches and movements that came from them. Should tell you something.
I used to attend UMC. During a cleanout we found old books of church doctrine & rulings - voted on at their conventions. I was curious to see from a document from the 1960s that the Methodists ruled against the charismatic wave of that time.
@DiGi377 There are exceptions to everything. Most of the "revivals" and "tent revivals" and "Spiritual waves" people you hear about from the 18 and early 1900s came out of methodism. The point is a vast number of the Pentecostal generals have major Methodist backgrounds. Methodism and the holiness movement 100% were precursors to Pentecostals. That does not mean they were not different in some regards, or that there wasn't a fundamental methodism that survived even to modern day, but Pentacostals are offshoots of methodism and a lot of the fractions from methodism were people being kicked out due to ecstatic and undisciplined behavior and people starting their own tent revival meetings on their own with no church backing. A lot like we see today...Again, that should tell you something. But here we are. I hope people research the roots of these things. From Asbury, to Parham, to Azusa, to fire baptism, tongue speaking as a salvific issue, latter rain, katherine kuhlman, oneness Pentacostals, Assemblies of God...all methodist roots. And in my opinion not very Godly roots. One such root which I believe also leads to where the UMC is today. But that's just where the historical records took me. Good luck, God bless.
Be well, John B. Wells.
Ordaining women was the beginning of the end. The bible is clear on this matter
read Andrew Bartlett's 'Men and Women in Christ'.
Interesting:GMC: have a way to stop people from stepping out of the belief system
How the Mighty have fallen
Tell it not in Gath
When churches align with evil they cease to be good
Return home to the Church that Jesus and the Disciples founded. Following the teachings of some "reformer" instead only leads to endless division and decline. As a former Protestant I can testify that the experiment LutherandHenry VIII started has been a failure.
I mean…equating someone who sleeps with their dad’s wife to someone who goes to a church that believes something differently from you is quite the twist of scripture, but I guess that explains why you leave the coffee shop every time I get there now. 💀
What is German liberalism ?
Every denomination that started ordaining homosexuals first started ordaining women for ministry.
Yep, you won't find a single affirming church that didn't first disregard the clear Biblical teaching on the structure of Church leadership.
The great falling away
This is why we follow Christ, not any religion.
Most Methodist outside of America still teach sound doctrine and follow Christ first. They are probably one of the most eclectic Christians. I know amazing Christians that are Methodist in Mexico that truly follow Christ. It’s sad what happened in America and Europe, not just Methodists, but Presbyterians, Anglicans, Lutherans and some nondenominational churches teaching New Age.
But yes my brother, we follow Christ.
Following Christ is to be a Christian, and Christians follow Christianity, and Christianity is a religion.
You can be LGBT and Christian 👨❤️👨
@@dansaber5853 no you can't.
Wrong
Does anyone else think that a host should probably not miss identify the name of a denomination every single time he opens his mouth?
American Methodism split early 'cause the Episcopal Church had a shortage of PRESBYTERS and kept them away from the Methodists.
1844 - What happened was a Godly Georgia man married a wealthy woman whose wealth included slaves. Georgia law forbade the selling of slaves as it broke up families. I don't know if manumission was allowed.
21:40ff - 1939 Uniting Conference was in Kansas City met at Grace and Holy Trinity EPISCOPAL Cathedral. The communion rail from this is retained by St. Paul Seminary.
SNJ AC churches are trapped in the UMC
You are missing the point. Ordination of women is prohibited by scripture. The Methodists, who are ordaining women, even if they don’t want to recognize it, are employing the same tactics of employing human reason and experience over and above scriptural doctrine.
Egalitarianism and allowing women to be pastors is the first BIG symptom of a church validating lived experience over Biblical authority. The steps that lead towards disregarding the clear Biblical teaching on leadership structure, and marriage for that matter, may not be woman in leadership, but that will be an eary fruit of that drift away from Biblical authority.
1
Protestantism when followed to its logical conclusion leads to anarchy, since it is error with a continual minus sign.
Methodist church in Africa, in South Africa in particular, has its own very worrying issues. Still divided racially on the ground, you have the white Methodist supporting lgbtq agenda and you have the black side supporting the practice of ancestral worship and associated practices. I’m aware that an upcoming conference will be debating the question of whether bishops can also be seers (this is done under the power of ancestral worship) on the side.
Citation needed
The black churches we've been praying for and trying to give support for. Recently had a conference and leader from the Ethiopian church was in attendance. What a cool and humble man! Our black family over there is holding the line and we pray for their strength and God's wisdom to be upon them.
Egalitarianism, as in many of the mainline denominations, was the starting point for liberal theology, lgbtqia abomination, ordination of homosexual and transexual peoples, and absolute apostasy. It all began with a loosening of the dedication to Scripture Alone.
Interesting observation. Thanks
💯 every time, that's how it goes. The serpent put Eve in charge of the church and then decieves her again..
At this point the Methodist name should just be abandoned. The name has been turned over to Satan.
No sir, compared to all the Methodist in the world, the majority of Methodist teach sound doctrine, specially outside of America and Europe. Since in America and Europe, many other denominations are accepting demonic doctrine. And there are still conservative Methodist fighting this fight in America and Europe.
Methodism, more like weloveourgayheresymorethangodthechurchandprettymuchanythingelsebecauseweworshipwantswewantism. I tried to condense it, I promise.
LOL. Culture before Christ pretty much sums it up.
Scripture does say 11 times in NT that there will be a lot of false teachers. Why surprised? We have to test the teaching of anyone we listen to.
Don’t put all Methodist in the same box. I’m a nondenominational Christian, but this problem with the United Methodist church is only for American since that’s where this specific branch is from.
Go to any other country that’s not America or liberal European Countries and it is still sound doctrine. I love my Methodist brothers that are against the United Methodist Church of America. They are not Christians anymore.
@@Jonathanhdz16 We're Global Methodists now.
U ever heard of free Methodists? Judging by your response I’d guess not.
This was a weird conversation as you do not understand Methodism and the GMC guest was obviously biased and not knowledgeable enough about Methodist history and doctrine to speak as definitively as he did. Also the history of the central jurisdiction is much more complicated than it was explained. I wish you would have had a knowledgeable UMC pastor included in the conversation. I felt the conversation was very one sided and misguided.
Our Pastor went to Asbury for his education, was a UMC member his whole life. We disaffiliated and joined the Global Methodist Church last summer. The UMC is lost and they've blasphemed the Holy Spirit.
The history and doctrine really doesn’t matter when the leaders chose to walk away from the truth of God.
Dr. Weston mischaracterized Calvinism with his explanation. He over simplified it with the trope that some people are destined to hell and some to heaven, without diving into that. It is worded so as to imply everyone is neutral and innocent, with God being a bad guy. However, reformed theology teaches that all are sinners, destined for hell, and God predestined, elected, some for salvation and passed over others. He doesn’t prevent people from salvation, to send them to hell, because without his intervention we would all choose to rebel and go to hell. He awakens dead sinners, by his sovereign choice, showing mercy and showing justice. Scripture absolutely teaches that we cannot do anything to save ourselves, read Ephesians 1-2 and John 6. God is the one who awakens and draws dead sinners to Christ. He gives grace that actually accomplishes salvation, not a provisionist failing grace. I can say I had nothing to do with my salvation, I only came to Christ because His by his grace awakened me, forgave me, and saved me. It was no work on my own but totally Christ alone who did everything.
I’m an Arminian and also didn’t like the way he mischaracterized Calvinism. What he was describing was “double-predestination,” which many Calvinists hold to but not all. However, I would still take issue with my Calvinist brothers and your concept of God “passing over” some (most?) sinners. Saying “they are all sinners” doesn’t solve the problem because in Calvinism’s doctrine of the sovereignty of God, God WANTS those sinners to be sinners. Remember that in Calvinism, His predestinating INCLUDES every sinner’s fall and how the sinner responds to the gospel - it’s ALL God’s will. Of course, you’ll say He has more than one will, namely a secret will (a la Luther) that “renders certain” (a la Edward’s and Piper) EVERY evil action including rejecting the gospel. You can try to nuance it but I don’t think Calvinists’ explanation of divine sovereignty allows for nuance as well as Wesleyan-Arminianism can.
He cut to the chase and got it spot on
That's only true if you don't judge others by the law.
You can be LGBT and Christian 👨❤️👨
No, you can’t.
@@tupacamaruiv5804 wrong
1 Corinthians 6:11
[11] And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Note the past tense of were
@@dennissprague2572 you're only washed if you don't judge others by the law.
You're only washed if you don't judge others by the law