The Three Failed Attempts to Bring the NHL to Hamilton by Jim Balsillie
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2023
- I have done a video on this before, wanted to make an updated video on the topic.
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Shannon cranking out some really interesting content here as the season winds down!
that's why i folllow him
This dudes Great!
I'd certainly like to see a NHL team in Hamilton one day in the future, but that market must find another rich owner with deep pockets and stay clear far away from Jim Balsillie. I'm sorry, but no one could have handled any potential team acquisition more unintelligently than Jim Balsillie.
I dont think Jim B has the cash to buy an NHL team these days.
@@craigusselman546 Blackberry is no longer a thing. Not sure if Balsille diversified his investments or not?
Super deep pockets are needed now a days.
@@JasonTzzzBalsillie is still rich. But I don't think he's "buy a NHL franchise" rich anymore.....
There's multiple bidders on the ottawa senators linked to southern ontario. The additional benefit of southern ontario is that you can put that team in the west as it's only a tiny bit further east than detroit.
Thank you for all the time and effort you put into the research you put into your videos. I did not know the whole history of Jim Balsillie attempts to get a NHL team to Hamilton.
The arena is just a homeless village now
98 years after the Tigers tried their players' strike and the League is still standing firm.
As a Hamilton boy I thank you for covering this !
As a Hamilton boy, do you wish he had succeeded?
@@mitchellvisscher18 of course
The fact that Hamilton is almost dead center between Buffalo and Toronto has long been noted as a reason why the NHL has not considered Hamilton. The two teams "Media Markets" actually overlap as it it and Hamilton is in that overlap. I always heard (way before Balsillie every made his attempt) that to move a team there or get expansion there, you'd have to get both to sign off.. and for the most part.. that will never happen. Balsillie.. as you said, he tried to end around the NHL board of governors and their rules to get his way.. He was never going to own a team due to that alone.. even if he left them in nashville, I think the only way he would have gotten approved.. is if he agreed to leave them there permanently... and he would have backed out.
I agree with this... even if Balsillie or some other owner would have gone through the Board of Governors, the Maple Leafs and *especially* the Sabres are going to look on warily. The Sabres do have a fanbase in the Niagara region east of Hamilton, and they'd want some concessions for losing that part of their fanbase. As Shannon said, the Maple Leafs might be more willing... might.
@@DialHoang I remember when Copps was built.. they wanted to try for an expansion team when the NHL was expanding in the 90's... and the Hamilton press was complaining because Toronto veto'd the idea at that time.. and I seem to remember the NHL coming back with.. Toronto wasn't the only one... Buffalo did too and you're going to need the ok from BOTH... and they were grumbling then... Then Balsillie came around and many were like "How can he do that?".. then it was found out that he was trying to end around the NHL... yeah, his ownership chances became NIL at that point. I know Buffalo was not very happy with him.
@@DialHoang Toronto blocking it is a matter of their having a cable broadcast monopoly in the Golden Horseshoe. They will never give up that.
@@ronpeacock9939 Toronto and Montreal blocked Vancouver from getting an expansion team in 1967, all about greed.
@@daviddietz2193not to mention buffalo losses a third + of the people going to the arena. Never going to happen, at least no in my lifetime, guaranteed
"The Gang tries to buy the Penguins"
Just watched BlackBerry, love that you're posting this.
Great explanation that shows no hockey in Hamilton is not Bettman's fault. You don't follow protocol, you don't get a team. This was a Jim Balsillie issue and nothing else. Even the courts blocked his efforts.
It doesn't matter how many times THG explains everything, or how many times we're reminded of how quickly the Thrashers were whisked away to Winnipeg *at Bettman's behest* Some people just can't get over their bias.
@@brientaylorcohen True, but its another video to throw in their faces 🤣
@@brientaylorcohen facts
Doesn't matter. Short combover man hate Canada bad.
@@MadMike1 Winnipeg was brought back under Bettman's watch. Quebec and original jets had one foot out the door before Bettman took over. Hartford and Minnesota also lost teams around that time. But sure, Bettman hates Canada. LOL
Went to the OHL Finals last year, insane atmosphere and completely packed. Andlauer would be the guy to do it as he owns the bull dogs.
Sounds like Jim Balsillie tried to be the NHL's version of Al Davis. LOL I still remember how he moved the Raiders to Los Angeles and didn't give rat's rear end what the NFL thought of it.
The league tried to stop Al Davis the same way the NHL stopped Balsillie. The difference was that when Davis filed antitrust, the court sided with him because he *already owned the team* & thus had the right to move it as he pleased. Where Balsillie erred was missing that the judge *hadn't* said that a sports league doesn't have the right to determine who its owners are in the first place and more specifically, what the timeline of a sale has to be.
Shannon is 100% correct: the NHL sniffed out his intentions when he tried to buy the Penguins. He should have quietly went to the league like Chapman did, negotiating a "standing offer" for any expansion franchise and/or "generic team in need of landing."
@@brycemcneil4404 In other words, the NHL learned from the NFL's mistakes. LOL
@@brandon074 hahaha yup pretty much 😅
Its wild how many owner stories there are in the nhl. As a bolts fan i can’t believe the lightning were owned by the mob at one point lmaoo.
Sidenote: love the vids, but I would especially love that one if it were to be made
Or when the islanders had a brief owner who had absolutely no money and tricked the entire nhl lmfao
@@Jremo. that was a funny story lol
Hold up, the mob owned the bolts at one point??? I'ma need to find a documentary or something about that lmao
@@DracoX-hz3tuthe yakuza to be specific
@@Jremo. The 30 For 30 on that was so good.
I remember when the league expanded around 1990. I thought Hamilton was the favourite to het a team, but then surprised Ottawa got the expansion tteam instead.
The Hamilton/Tim Hortons bid did not want to pay the full expansion fee of $50 million. Ottawa and Tampa Bay were more than happy to pay that price.
Shannon, I think you've done a great job with the material of late on the channel.
Great overview shannon, thanks as always for the well researched video
Nobody in their right mind can look at the Coyotes situation and not think that things would have been exponentially better in Hamilton. This is Betteman's failure, not Balsille's.
I'm still under the impression the bid on the Penguins was made in good faith by Balsillie to the NHL, with him thinking it would be seriously considered and having a good chance of winning. But then the NHL used it as leverage to force Pittsburgh's hand to fund a new arena, making it seem like they were using Balsillie.
The Nashville bid went through the owner and the Coyote bid tried to go through the courts. Seemed like he felt slighted by the NHL and took it personally, and tried to make them pay, as it were.
It's a bummer, cuz southern Ontario could easily support another team, if not two more teams.
I agree! Imagine the rivalry there would be between Toronto, the second team and Buffalo as well?
@@natemundt4752 I'm not even in North America and I agree the league needs more of that! A 2nd Chicago team would be amazing too, plus Milwaukee. Really build up those local rivalries. For me that works better than just aggressively moving to new markets.
@@tomchamberlain4329 Milwaukee is the city that makes the most sense to me. Wisconsin loves hockey and has no representation
As someone from Kitchener area, Hamilton would be great. We arent Leafs fans and their tickets are expensiveso we go see the Sabres, which is like a 2 hour drive there and back. The 45 min trip to Hamilton would be great. You just need a good owner who the board likes
Been wondering about this since the Arizona news came out. Thanks for the video!
As an Arizona resident since 1987, I was here when the Coyotes came here, the worst franchise in NFL history, the Cardinals and the inaugural Diamondbacks season. I’ll never like the Suns, like I said, the Cardinals are the laughing stock of the NFL and I will never support them either. The Diamondbacks speak for themselves and the Coyotes are the joke of the NFL. At this point, they need to stop kicking the dead Coyote. Absolute fricken nightmare and I won’t be upset if they bounce. It’s both great and awful that a franchise like Vegas can come in and look at where they’re at. Happy they’re thriving but bummed out that everyone laughs at the Coyotes. Great 4 team “city” but no one is going to pay top $$$$ for a team that tells everyone that they just don’t care.
Great video Shannon. Thank you
Actually in the late 90s , edm , cgy and ott all were close to relocation and had financial problems. Bringing the Canadian Aid Assistance and getting them to the 05 lockout to implement a cap worked well long term !
The Revenue Sharing that Bettman (yes, Gary Bettman) got the owners to implement helped keep those teams there too. And actually is still helping to keep those teams in Canada.
@@angushiltz4880 It’s also what’s keeping the Coyotes afloat and I imagine the NHLPA isn’t too happy they’re also losing revenue.
The CAD strengthing to parity with the USD by 2007 through 2013 also helped land the Jets back to Winnipeg.
Bettman knew he HAD to beat Goodenow and defeat the union in 2005 or be out of a job. Close to twenty of the thirty teams were losing money going into the lockout and that's why the cap had to be imposed to stabilize the League.
As far as ease of access in the area goes, Buffalo is a straight shot down the QEW for most southern Ontario residents. Toronto is an hour longer drive from anywhere east of the GTA. The traffic is a huge discouragement to driving to Leafs games. Counter point to that, Hamilton doesn't have great GO train access at Copps, especially compared to the Leafs - but that is also supposedly in the works too. The price of Sabres games compared to an Ontario team would probably keep people going over the border.
Very interesting Hamilton Bulldogs jersey! I cheered for them in the AHL (Habs) and cheer for them now in the OHL. Love this kind of content!
Blackberry did briefly do a smartphone foray- they made the palm (I had one), but they marketed it as 'sync to your big phone' a phone accessory rather than a standalone phone. I used it as a standalone phone. It had shit battery life, but on the other hand, it was smaller than a closed flip phone. I think they could have made a success out of it if they sold it with battery sticks and advertised it as fitting in a pocket or being a piece of jewelry (I wore mine around my neck the entire time I owned it. I had a black leather case and put a floral looking finger ring on it, it looked good with my dresses) That's how they should have advertised it. Instead they advertised it as an accessory which I think was part of what killed it. Look at the mini's success.
Shannon-the ‘greater Hamilton area ‘includes all those cities you’ve mentioned. I was at a senators game and sat beside a couple from Ham. Probably 5 million peeps down there that are hockey mad.
If tickets were cheaper than a leafs game you start quickly pulling fans from Toronto too.
The shot of the arena in the thumbnail reminds me of a really wide fish
Blackberry was so funny thanks for making a video on this!
I actually think the early 90s pre-Balsillie (and for that matter pre-Bettman) expansion was the best shot for Hamilton esp. given the Leafs leadership at the time (post Ballard, pre Rogers). But it reads like the bidders treated it like a negotiation rather than a bidding process. My recollection may be totally off but I think Ottawa was something of a "surprise" underdog victory & the Hamilton bidders didn't see it coming.
Balsillie was bullheaded and either had information or was paranoid that the NHL would never willingly grant a franchise to a Hamilton concern. Thus he decided he could strong-arm his way into the "club" by continually bidding on team after team after team until he got his way.
Shannon is the ultimate insiders insider !
Thank you!
Welcome back
Born, raised and still live (25 years) in Hamilton and although it would be amazing, it’s always seemed infeasible. Luckily Buffalo isn’t far for cheap games
As a Sabres fan, I feel like we shouldn't be the reason that Hamilton can't have an NHL team. Yes I know roughly a quarter of the Sabres fan base is from the Niagara region. But considering that it's been only recently that season ticket sales have dropped (after ten plus year out of the playoffs) and are already showing a comeback, I think it would be survivable for Buffalo. Especially if they can actually get and stay competitive during the rest of this decade.
I could see the first time be like, "Nah, you're not moving the Penguins."
Second time would be "Wait you're just trying to pull one over on us now."
Third time is simply "Nah we don't like you, go away. Yeah we know this time it might be a good move, too bad. We don't like you, go away."
Hamilton had it's opportunity when they were selected in 1990 over Ottawa but Ron Joyce quibbled over the payment of the $50 million expansion fee. Ottawa group let by Bruce Firestone agreed and were chosen over Hamilton.
My dad held onto his blackberry until 2012 under the justification that Obama was still using his. Thanks barrack for making texting my dad hell😂
Shannon knows his hockey
I think the only way Buffalo would be convinced to not veto another Southern Ontario team is if was not based in Hamilton. Aren't close to a third of fans who go see Sabres games coming from the Golden Horseshoe? No wonder they don't want that ticketbase siphoned off.
You plop a 20K seat arena fairly close to the 401 somewhere between Kitchener and Guelph with robust GO transit support. Not only would it be pretty much a guaranteed sell out every game, but Buffalo might go for that.
My dad recently found a paper in his desk for season tickets to the Hamilton predators.
I think Buffalo would be more likely to ban the move to Hamilton than Toronto, as there are many Sabres fan in the Hamilton/Niagara regions, and Buffalo doesn’t have the luxury of selling out like the Leafs
If Balsillie just went through the board of governors for his team in Hamilton he could maybe get one. Not doing through them certainly hurts him
As a Buffalo sabers fan who lives here still, I would definitely drive to Hamilton to watch the Sabres play there. Just one guy, but ya never know. Let me tell you that the games here against the leafs are always pretty good, friendly rivalry, so I see it is a continuation of that.
Really interestin story. 👌
Hey the thumbnail is two minutes down the road from me
Blackberry Bold. My very first phone that I ever had. Loved it but to this day. So glad I got an Iphone now.
Such a dame shame he couldn't do it the proper way, imagine what the salary cap would be at now if he had moved Arizona to Hamilton, definitely over 100m
The Coyotes would be thriving right now in Hamilton lol.
Thing is if he was just happy owning a team he’d have one. It’s his insistence that they be in Hamilton that cost him.
😂 I think I mentioned this in the last post.
I want great attendance at those OHL games.
My iPhone runs Blackberry device management software. Not sure if thats good or bad...
Yeah...and this Preds fan says 🖕 Balsillie and Leipold. Forced us to sell off Vokoun, Hartnell, Timonen, and Kariya. A fan rally to buy season tickets convinced local ownership groups to jump in. I was there as a STH before and have been now for 23 years in total. Proud that we retained this franchise and sought a new identity.
Fun content
Quebec City also is not a wealthy market. Hamilton at least has multiple other cities to pull from, but sadly I think the most likely scenario is if the Sabres move there
I feel like the gta could support 3 or more NHL teams
I’ve seen BlackBerry, and I’d highly recommend it to anyone. It’s a great film. Yes, Glenn Howerton (of It’s Always Sunny fame) plays Jim Balsillie, and he’s tremendous. He’s one of the best parts of the movie. The film very clearly puts his NHL desires in the movie. It only focuses on the Penguins acquisition attempt, none of the others, but you definitely get the feeling that he used shady tactics and was quite disgusting. The movie actually merges aspects of the Predators acquisition into it by saying he was already selling season tickets. Also, the movie VERY clearly states that his NHL ambitions impacted BlackBerry’s failures. Missed key meetings with Verizon and AT&T because he was flying to New York to meet with Bettman. Was absent during large blackout periods because he was working on acquiring the arena in Hamilton. It’s a very damming presentation of the situation.
Funny thin is I'm watching this on my blackberry key 2. Love this phone
Have you covered when Bettman will retire?
Would love this to happen
A Hamilton-based franchise would be a non-starter for the small-market Sabres. The Sabres have some season ticket members who live in Hamilton and surrounding cities and a Hamilton club would hurt them a lot. Also, anyone setting up shop in Hamilton would need the FirstOntario Center (FKA the Copps Coliseum) to be either heavily renovated or replaced so the club playing in the city can have an arena that meets current NHL specifications.
Honest to god, to this day I have no real idea what Blackberry even is. A smart device company from what I've gathered, but I don't think I've ever seen one of their products. Granted, I'm from Finland, so you know... been surrounded by Nokia phones since the mid-90's. But still. Interesting video.
Blackberry didin't adapt fast enough. When it was new and hot, fine, it was popular and had lots of deals with business (for a while all work phones where blackberries)... but those damned keyboards... so many of us hated them. They put out like what.... 1 touch screen version before going out? Should've adapted faster... I have no trouble believing it's the competition that did them in.
I still have my “make it seven” t shirt. I never liked the Hamilton thing personally but at that stage Canada REALLY needed a 7th franchise and I think his attempts put the pressure on Bettman and NHL to finally get another team in Canada
I used to love my blackberry. I could type easily and accurately with my 2 thumbs and had no issues. I'm a 1 finger typist on my android, really slow. Blackberry couldn't keep up with the advances with Apple and Android and went the way of the dodo
Imagine an alternate reality where the Thrashers stayed in Atlanta, and they didn't trade Heatley, Kovalchuk, or Hossa. 🤔
If they have not been doomed with dipshit owners, it probably would’ve happened.
Heatley was traded for Hossa...
@@mrgreekgm754 🤫
I gotta see BlackBerry- this is apparently a recurring plot point played up for laughs.
Toronto got in the way of what wound up being the Hamilton expansion that went to Ottawa and they have a monopoly for broadcasting in Ontario now that they didn't have then. They're a way bigger impediment than Buffalo.
Its not the Leafs that is the problem, a team in Hamilton wont bother the Leafs. You give them a bag full of money and theres no problem. But if you put a team in Hamilton it will kill the sabers and thats the real problem.
@@richardsalsbury1531 Nah, it's that MLSE would have to share all their money from their exclusive cable deals and they've already shown they don't want to do that.
As someone that lives in Hamilton I remember this well
Balsille was enemy #1 in Nashville during he attempt to buy the Predators.
I Remember That and Imagine If The Preds Had Moved?
@@vinceniederman It would've meant one less team in the sun belt.
Move the low attendance Senators to Hamilton, they’ll stay in Ontario and have a passionate owner.
I like these analysis of the business of the NHL. I've always said it is never Bettman's fault. He answers to the Board of Governors. The Board of Governors is an "old boys club". If you don't court the Board you won't win. Jim being a maverick and going on his own way.....won't get him a seat with the old boys'. It's a club more than a business. All the owners get a say into who else gets to join their club.
I resemble this remark.
I think London makes more sense than Hamilton or Kitchener and plus it’s within driving distance of both AND Windsor and because it’s in Canada let’s be real it’s not gonna siphon off many Detroit fans except perhaps Windsorites (Windsorians?) who may have made the crossing once in awhile.
Not enough population in London to support a team whats the next biggest city? Sarnia an hour away? With 73k and barely support their OHL team? Hamilton has a bumch of major cities around them and is bigger than london
Hamilton never gets and NHL team as long as the Blueshirts are 35 miles away and the Sabres are 55 miles. I can not see this happening...
In order for Hamilton to get a team, the U.S. market would have to be completely maxed out and an American-based team would have to want to relocate.
Hamilton, like Quebec City, would be used as a bargaining chip/emergency backup for the NHL.
It’s worth noting though that from a revenue standpoint it’s the best option, the NHL has studied this somewhat recently. And at this point leafs tickets are so expensive another team could easily pull Toronto fans with more league average pricing.
Shannon, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that Mr. Balsillie was too "aggressive" in trying to move an existing NHL team to Hamiliton and that is likely why the city still does not have an NHL team.
Are you saying if Balsillie wasn't around that Hamilton *would* have a team?
@@burningmime432 Possibly.
@@burningmime432 I think he's saying that Hamilton's chances would've been better with a prospective owner not named Balsillie. NHL brass knew that Balsillie wanted a team and have it play in Hamilton. That's why the speed and recklessness at which he took things didn't win him any friends at the League's head office.
Not gonna happen. Leafs and sabres franchises don't want it. There are at least 5 other cities far a head of Hamilton. There are 3+ markets in America and 2 or 3 in Canada that would get one first. Not even sure why anyone would talk about Hamilton getting a team at this point
the thing about a team in Hamilton is i think the MLSE wouldnt be to happy and would likley shut down any attempt
The 135k people in Guelph would also help support a team in either Kitchener or Hamilton, less than a 30 min drive to either.
Jim did say he never spent much time in purchasing a nhl club, he spent much more time training to run a triathlon
Before any one comments no sound.. Wait 5 min & try again.. If there is still no sound repete...
I'm convinced that those comments have had a slight impact in growth of the channel. They're technically comments and interaction on the video lol
Penguins to Hamilton? ...moving from one city with a dying steel city to another city with a dying steel city.
Shannon you're going to have to get a Brantford Bulldogs jersey. Since we stole the team.
The poor taxpayers always subsidizing rich owners and players.
Of the East teams, Buffalo is the likeliest for relocation right now. I don’t think a new Commissioner would try to save the Sabres either once Pegula passes.
That would be a sin if the Sabres relocated, but of course Gary would throw them under the bus like Atlanta, while he protects his precious Coyotes for the 30th time.
i would have to think that quebec city would get a team before hamilton. and since that will only happen when hell freezes over....
Newsflash-The Eagles reunited 30 years ago
The love/hate relationship between the Not Hamilton League and the city goes back a lot further than Balsillie. Every few years Edmonton would threaten to re-locate if they did not get more consesions and of course got what they wanted without moving. Ron Joyce had a more solid business plan than Firestone's airy/fairy bid for Ottawa but Bettman believed Firestone's guarantee and he got the expansion franchise. Copps Colosseum was NHL ready at the time it was built but is now being renovated for a much smaller capacity. That should finally put the nails into the coffin of the NHL dream
People are wrong to think Blackberry was a cell phone company, just like they think Tesla is a car company. Blackberry was always, and is still a software company. Governments of the world didn't use Blackberries because they loved the phone, but because they were nigh unhackable. That's why the company still exists and still does a great number of sales.
Kitchener is a Better Hockey town than Hamilton, what holds Kitchener back is the Outdated Arena. Should have built a New arena Downtown and Incorporated the Transit Hub at King/Victoria. The Rangers and an AHL Team would sell out
Im all for it but before Quebec city nahh
People seem to really enjoy blaming Bettman for everything. I remember even at the time, there was plenty of talk about "Bettman screwing over Canada/Hamilton again" but Bettman didn't screw anyone over. The only one who f*cked this whole thing up was Balsillie who thought (and still thinks) that he's bigger than God and the whole world should bow to him.
It's unfortunate that Hamilton lost out because of this jerk but I'm really happy that this "I never lose" loser, lost and did so publicly.
i really like that jersey who is that?
Hamilton Bulldogs
Bulldogs Stealth jersey
Kamloops should get an NHL team, just based off what their name can be
Hey I'm from kitchener
Professional sports team owners are a billionaires club that don’t want to deal with new guys joining the club and rocking the boat.
As a reference the city of Boston has a population of about 650,000 and I've never heard it's a small market. With that being said most people say that the Boston sports teams are for the entire New England region
Well Boston pretty much is all of New England when it comes to sports. Well at least Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and Massachusetts primarily are Boston sports fans. But even if they weren't, the Boston Metropolitan area is 4.6 million. That's the primary market area.
You have to go by metropolitan population, not just how many people are strictly in the cities boundries. Boston has a metro population of 4.9 million, which is 11th in the US. Small market US NHL teams are Buffalo (1.1million) and Raleigh (1.4 million), which are ranked in the 40s when it comes to metro population
@@xevious1538 this. The St Louis metro area is much bigger than the actual city.
I'd worry more about the Sabres if Hamilton had a team. The Maple Leafs would be just fine. Hamilton has never been a real strong pro hockey market, going through multiple AHL franchises (most recently the Bulldogs).
True and Toronto Has a Large Fanbase When It Comes To Hockey Since Some Buffalo Fans Live In Canada!
I think a team could 100% work in Hamilton, but not Kitchener. Hamilton has the advantage of drawing from Mississauga and other parts of the GTA, as well as K/W, Guelph, Brantford, and maybe even as far as Niagara falls. Kitchener really only has itself and maybe Guelph. London will never cheer for a Kitchener team same as we'll never cheer for a London team. I suppose you could argue people would cheer for them just as an alternative to the Leafs, but even then you might as well just put in in Hamilton. On top of just the geography Hamilton's building a new arena whereas Kitchener is still using a 70 year old 7000 seater (with some charm mind you). I'd obviously love to see an NHL team here but there's just a lot better options out there.
Id be all for Quebec if it were realistic.
That's stupid to sell tickets in Hamilton without owning an NHL team wait till the NHL gives you a franchise then you can sell tickets.