muteace is like the crazy old man who comes back to the village telling everyone their horrible experiences but no one believes them lmao, your perspective on the game is interesting and fresh
In voids sheik guide I think he says something like "the only reason you should play sheik is if you want to look cool" and I think that's pretty much the reason for most people who play some of the harder characters. We don't just want to win, we want to look and feel cool while we are doing it
I think it have to do with the person play style. Not everyone have the same play style. Whatever work for them, have to work with me too. I cant play steve, ROB or G&W I get bored playing them.
To build off it more, the only reason you should play majority of the really hard characters is if you genuinely believe in their kit and the character. You don't pick up Sheik/Peach/Bayo/Icies/ZSS etc if the end goal is to just win, you pick them up because you believe that their kit is great enough to win and you already like the character
@@PrinceCollinXXX u dont have to be good to understand what hes saying either. I suck at ultimate and im kinda okay at melee, and in melee its super obvious that fox and falco are probably better charafters than marth but marth is much easier to win with. There have been no solo foxes or falcos to every be ranked #1 (mango has done it dual maining them though) and there have been 3 different people that have gotten #1 with solo marth (ken, m2k, and zain)
@@Welldamn-c5y I believe he was being satirical with the whole “hardest character” thing but there’s no doubt with the way smash is, that some characters are just easier than others. Even so, having the best/better character option available doesn’t mean you should pick it, that’s why there’s such a huuuuuge roster, to play who you enjoy(which some people forget to do), and plus, it’s just a personal opinion :]
Incredibly entertaining and masterful understanding of why characters win. I really liked how you touch on the point of """"bad""""" characters winning not being surprising when the conventional good character's job is spending the entire match preventing the conventional bad character from doing that 1 thing 1 time to kill them. We will be watching the next video
I’ve always said that a meta is based on 2 things. 1) how popular a character/deck/strategy is and 2) how easy it is to do your thing with that character/deck/strategy.
This was a genuinely excellent video! Great insight, articulated well, really well chosen clips that perfectly illustrate the points being talked about, which I know can be a huge time sink to hunt down. Really hope you'll keep going with this, it's one of the more exciting Ultimate channels I've seen in a long time.
Some points of interest: 0:00 Start of the video 5:08 R.O.B. & Kazuya and why the win tier does well. 8:40 Characters scale at levels of game play. 9:50 People just playing the character, but not making decisions, expecting opponent to make a mistake. You need to force a mistake to happen by making threats. Leading into gameplay examples of forcing mistakes . 14:06 If a pro is "trolling around", then the risk reward is stupid. 15:13 "normal characters" Palutena and Cloud is usually running away and swatting at you. People don't know how to use stage and win conditions. 16:08 Easy tier 16:21 Samus 17:13 Mythra doesn't have X factor 17:53 Terry is broken 'cuz infinite supers. Back into Mythra talk 20:10 If you learn Kazuya inputs, you become a player. 21:15 Difficulty tier list and Peach being put in same tier as Kazuya is offensive 22:05 Ice Climbers practice setups, then use them at you. Mashers that don't even look at you. 24:23 If you wanna win, these are the best picks. They play for you. 25:03 Fox 25:36 Roy 25:49 Characters don't interact and disengage, have their own game plan, or prevent you from doing your game plan. They don't pay attention to matchups as much. 26:05 Game & Watch example. 30:40 Examples of some characters that top players pick 31:10 Peach lacks the "glue" to bring the move set together. Like Pikachu's T-jolt example at 32:07. 33:02 Pacman example. 33:45 Joker teleports out of the game 35:02 Incineroar is not fair 37:33 ZSS, Sheik, Pichu and janky hitboxes 37:57 Hard to win with tier and is not worth it 39:26 Not many hard characters in Ultimate. Why play them over easy ones if you want to win? Leading into Bayonetta talk 42:21 Sephiroth is precise (I'm a little biased 'cuz main. There are other characters talked around this spot for a brief moment) 43:27 Mewtwo is easy, Wadi just uses 3 moves 44:00 What normal tier is. Easy to play, will do what you are putting out. 48:02 Little Mac and Peanut 49:43 Wario is hard to win with 52:35 The secret to winning. Pick a character in top 2 or 3 tiers, then pick one character that complements them in normal to counterpick. 53:15 You are now Protobanham Who plays Min Min and Lucina 53:24 If you pick 2 characters from win tier, you are now Acola 53:54 Olimar & Mythra = Shuton 54:03 Glutto, Tweek, MuteAce, and Dabuz being down in the hard characters section
I've never felt so vindicated in my fucking life. Been dead inside for years and this video had me squealing in joy that my opinions on the game don't solely stem from my inadequacies. I mainly play wifi tournaments, and constantly hearing top players talk about Samus being mediocre, and kazuya being hard drove me insane. The only place left for the anger to be directed was at myself for being bad since I clearly fundamentally misunderstood something about the game. I'm still bad, but thank you for making me feel like I'm not insane or an egomaniac for disagreeing with them.
I understand what you mean lmfao. I’d always talk about characters like Kazuya and Luigi just waiting for their moment to do their execution tests to win and people would just give me weird eyes, look at ZSS and say “bro she’s so hard to hit.” So what if I’m hard to hit? I find it hard to hit you with any move but zair and it takes you two neutral interactions to get an very hard-to-beat checkmate condition Edit: to add, the characters who have to have intricate movement to get in for neutral and also have to use that movement and *mostly nothing else to close the gap without a secure win waiting after the interaction is won, the character is hard
u are trolling there is literally no way a top player said kazuya is hard. its nearly unanimous among all levels of play except like intermediate and below that kazuya is brain rot easy. drop names rn because tbh i dont believe you.
@@damarihanson3876 its definitely stressful, but if you play zss its literally what you signed up for. not saying it isn't difficult, but this is like playing mac and complaining about getting air camped
@@eitak12334 It’s absolutely what I signed up for. I just find it weird that other people playing these characters with way higher risk-reward in their favour being pessimistic and always looking for an easy secondary for a bad matchup instead of trying to put their all into what they know best
As a Luigi main, this video is completely correct on what ACTUALLY matters in the game. The more I’ve played ultimate the more I actually think Luigi is high tier not only because he can kill you at literally any percent, but also because his up B is a silent comeback mechanic that will always give Luigi a chance to win the game. Funny enough I also used to play Palu, but thought it wouldn’t make sense to play Luigi if I’m also willing to play Palu to cover bad matchups when I can just main Palu. However, this video opened my eyes to why it actually makes perfect sense for me to do that since Palu is relatively low maintenance and covers every bad Luigi matchup.
I really liked the concept of "glue". That one central piece that holds the whole kit together by applying pressure to the opponent makes so much sense for a lot of characters.
@@natecallon9755nah its pancake. The glue is the stuff that immediately forces the opponent to adjust and start working on a way to outplay the hero without just using their character flowchart.
@@davidquintanilla9330 oh absolutely, that’s more of an attribute I thought than a specific move as bair dair and sometimes even dash attack will pancake and go under stuff, but yeah absolutely that too.
or things meant to make the character bad. ganondorf has good attacks, but his other stats are low (ground/air speed, jump height, etc.) imagine captain falcon, but he hits as hard as ganondorf. that would be broken.
I really had to take a step back and think about my understanding of the game after watching this video. The game is quite complex, though oddly more simple than I originally thought it was. Regardless, it’s another reminder that I still have a long way to go. Can’t wait to see more informative content!
This is such a real discussion of the meta of this game. People get waaaay too caught up in the "on paper" attributes of a character, but the truth is way way deeper. The trouble is that its difficult to compose all of these complicated topics into something cohesive like this. There is so much truth spoken in this video its crazy.
As a Peach main for like 5 years now, this perfectly describes how I feel about the game. Honestly, being used to playing a hard character makes it a ton easier to win with characters that don't require as much effort. I can practice for an hour with Peach to warm up, and suddenly my Samus is good despite me never actually practicing Samus, or I'll get a 3-stock with Kazuya because I'm still in the same mindspace that I was when I was playing Peach. If you play an actually hard character, it becomes way easier to outplay your opponents when picking an easier one that you're even decently familiar with. That, and if you already do something hard (I play piano and do art despite having Tourettes), it makes it so that you have to spend less time on mastering execution, which is the only "hard" part about a lot of characters with insane risk-reward. Peach just has so many potential setups in specific scenarios that you can't exactly practice all of them, and even if you do, you can easily forget, so you have to have good execution and awareness. Not to mention getting your starters with her can actually be hard against a decent opponent, so a lot of the time, your crazy damage output doesn't even come into play, and you end up having to chip away at your opponent until like 150% because you were finally in a good spot to call out their ledge jump with fair.
i really really love this perspective about the differences between characters. Was helpful to hear how you elaborated on their own conditions to win- the concept about characters ability to play and their plan to win. It's something that I realized when I started to have trouble winning with Captain falcon and Wolf. You can't just play your own plan to win the game- you need to adapt to other dominant win conditions.
I’ve had this thought recently, very satisfying to witness such a succinct and knowledgeable breakdown of it. Masterfully made and mute’s style of commentary makes it so entertaining
I’m really glad you were there for last summit because you’re insightful commentary was gold when you were on the couch. I can see you excelling in these types of videos if you decide on pursuing that if you’re interested that. I’m only 14 mins in so far but I’ll be sure to enjoy the rest when I have time
I'll be honest, you are probably one of the only Top pro players right now who actually has a real understanding on how this stupid game works, I love how you explain win conditions and the glue concept, people should really really stop the copium and understand that there are polarizing braindead characters that just make winning so much easier. I could sit and watch any video of you explaining characters one by one, cause I know you'd be keeping it real with no bs, good shit Mute, great video.
Oh my God! I don’t play smash but I’ve always followed its competitive scene closely. It makes me want to die when top players talk about match ups “on paper.” The game doesn’t happen on paper! The goal is to beat other people with a game plan. It doesn’t matter how many good moves and good stuff a character has. The only thing a character needs to be good is a good game plan. Even if a character has only 2 good moves, if they have a viable game plan, they can beat you. I love that you’re the 1 top player who seems to think this. I’ve wondered if I was the only person thinking this for so long. Great video!
The concept of “on paper” is most useful when you’re talking about an extremely powerful gameplan that has a lot of parts or is hard to implement, like sheik, peach, joker, diddy, pac-man
@@yurplethepurple2064 And I get that. I just feel like people throw around the phrase on paper too much, and it was refreshing to hear somebody talk about the game in a more straightforward and practical way.
you know pac man is broken because I watch Tea destroy people in tournament, and in the player cam, he has his legs crossed like he's chillin on vacation xD
mute you are fucking hilarious.... "do you know how many rob nairs ive parried just for positioning??" so true i love the way you see the game! Im a new fan of yours. WIll be rooting you on in tournament.
To me it seems like a concept of understanding which characters’ win conditions are easier to get, or rather, more practical in a competitive setting. For example, Mute has amazing turnip combos, but how often do you actually see them in bracket? Versus Game and Watch just getting a successful edgeguard/ledgetrap? The latter is seen much more in tournament, simply because it’s easier to accomplish and harder to avoid. Even if you know going in what that character’s win condition is, avoiding it is another thing entirely, i.e. the “gymnastics” he mentions. It’s very difficult in practice.
I’m a super casual player but I’m a middle school teacher and bring my switch for the kids to play. I teach all 3 grades and all grades have an absurd hatred of Sonic G&W and Pikachu and will often ask me to step in and beat their classmates because without fail those players will win. Also only three students have ever given me trouble in game. Two were students a few years back, one was an incin main and the other maimed Luigi. The third is a student I have now who mains G&W and Steve. Interesting that my classes reflect you idea of the ease of win even at the most casual level
This is probably the best super smash Brothers ultimate video online without competition. People who are first getting into the game really need to understand what's being said and take it to heart. This is why it's so hard to explain to people that difference between a character's viability in a vacuum vs what will actually happen in a tournament. It's why there is more consistent among some characters than others at every level of the game. And why some characters that are in the same tier have much different results on a week-to-week and month-to-month basis.
Mute talks about peach the same way fox players talked about fox-puff back when hbox was winning everything. Honestly this is an interesting way to view the game
You put into perfect words what I have been telling my friends for some time. Kazuya is more toxic to smaller regions than Steve because it's "better" in this tier list you made. I always told my friends: smash is a game about taking stocks, not about winning neutral, and Kazuya is the best at taking stocks
Idk, Steve might be just as good at taking stocks along with having one of the best neutrals. Spot dodge into spam utilt literally plays the game for you and guarantees at least like 70%, if not the stock. Add blocks to the mix and there is no such thing as neutral. You're always in disadvantage
Really interesting the idea of the counterplay being way harder. I've seen this happen in a lot of other games. In apex you had a slow firing, heavy DMG lmg that was broken cause it just did way too much DMG and people were like "well the fast smgs outdmg it and you can kill them before they kill you" The problem being if you make even a slight error, you have to reload while they keep shooting forever and you lose. If you play perfectly, you win. But more often than not you're not going to and Moreover you shouldnt have to play absolutely perfectly to beat something that is far easier than what you're doing.
I think talking about Palu Incineroar is the wrong debate to be having. I think one of the easiest ways to show that tier list =/= winning is Aegis. She’s easy as fuck to play but at the same time, she can just be easy to lose with. There’s a reason a ton of top players get one loss, go back home and make their edgy ass emo tweet about “tired of losing, gonna make Kazuya/Steve/Aegis” and then the next week they’re back playing their main. Not to mention the most commonly dropped characters are often top tiers. It’s not Sm4sh where you can you play a shit character but have a pocket Cloud and be good. If you main a low tier, you’re more likely to go further in bracket with just your main than playing a pocket character, even through bad matchups, just from inexperience alone.
That’s very true. Imagine if skyjay switched off incin for “bad” matchups. And look how far he goes just staying solo. It’s similar for some other bad characters where Peanut wouldn’t magically do better if he switched to Aegis, despite being at polar opposites of top and bottom tier. Some players have characters that just stick with them and characters that don’t.
So glad someone actually knows what they are talking about, been on smash twitter threads recently and good GOD they need to see this vid with the swiftness
Tea spamming EWGF in neutral 4 times in a row is another example of how fucked the risk reward is in Kazuya's favour for pressing legit any button near you is.
You truly have a one of a kind understanding of this game and its amazing to see. Super excited for this mute content era and will always be supporting you no matter what!❤
I just can't understand how Pikachu isn't in hard to win with. Literally one Pikachu main worth talking about (Shinymark). Character can cheese certain match-up, but also dies early af and struggles to kill. Like Sephiroth is in "hard to win with" tier to you, but Pika isn't? It just weirds me out how EVERYONE has been saying Pika is top 5 for most of the game, yet where are the Pika mains?
Omg I'm so happy you posted this! I remember literally almost crying when watching this on stream. Just out of pure vindication. This actually moved me. I remember the whole stream was just begging you to post this. Such a godlike speech/rant! Thank you Mute!
Bro wtf this is like my favorite smash video EVER, I absolutely loved this video and would love to see more informative videos like this in the future!!
This actually more refreshing to see and it seems easier to understand than a typical “oh skill ceiling” or wtv, instead it breaks down in depth things like win conditions and how mus in bracket have effects. I loved watching this!
i've watched this video 3 times since you uploaded it, it's absolutely cathartic to hear a top player talk about the game honestly. some characters just allow you to play a different game than everyone else, and that's ok, but the people who play them just won't admit it. the day rob mains start doing tick throws after a down tilt instead of just mashing, it's over lol.
I subbed immediately after watching this. I disagreed with exactly one thing out of 1000, you’re straight spittin my man. Amazing video, and amazing way of putting it. Utmost respect to you
this is never something i had considered before, but it makes so much sense now that i think about it. it really does feel like you gotta fight the characters more than the players at times which is such a pain
Honestly. This video is amazing imo. As the most middle of the road garbage kind of player, I can easily see both sides of this argument. Eventually, I will have the energy to explain what I think the issue is with easy versus hard character as a mindset.
This is how I’ve felt with smash since smash 4, probably even moreso with that game cause of all the ZtD that existed or patches band-aid fixes being throw into aerials killing sub 50% with rage or maybe even none. But ult and especially a good chunk of FP1/2 has brought back that terrible feeling s4 used to give and was one of the main reasons I still can’t bring myself to fully return to this game since 2015. Still finishing up this vid but the last 15ish mins been good to hear someone else say, even if it’s possibly been parroted by people in vids or twitter, easy for it to get buried when it’s short clips or tweets.
This was such a great video to watch! I've only gotten Ultimate and actually started playing it a couple months ago, though I've been watching competitive play for years, where I main Yoshi + Cloud/Sephiroth and this video made me really think about my understanding of this game since I never thought of it like that! You definitely earned my sub, I'm excited to see more of this informative content in the future hopefully!
i got flamed in a comment section for saying kazuya doesn’t have a bad disadvantage state 😂 everyone just listens to what casters repeat every set and can’t form their own opinions on the game
It's very exaggerated indeed, he has a bunch of stuff like good quick disjointed aerials with a nice hitbox for landing, good fall speed, a double jump cancel mix-up and of course the threat of neutral airdodge into EWGF right after
this is an incredibly good video. i feel like you eloquently put things that i’ve thought about for a long time thinking about the game but didn’t have the background to fully understand i found myself agreeing with nearly everything
Robin is not a "normal" character to use, he's hard and there's many specific MUs where you can't just use projectiles, 1/3 of the cast with reflectors and more than 2/3 of chars with moves that just beat your projectiles. Adding to that you have to count for your spells and if you want to not risk dying you might have to cancel his recovery twice with a 3-4 frames windows that otherwise puts you in a bad spot, one of the slowest characters in the game, laggy moves, 3 moves with practical applications if you B reverse them, charge a special for up to 4 seconds, etc. Literally most players that use this char are crap and play in a very simplistic way hence why there's not one at the top, because he's very hard to use properly.
This video is so well put together and confirmed some points i was expressing about the game and about certain characters and this makes me happy . hope to see more contend like this in the future
FINALLY someone who doesnt just think of characters as top tier/mid/bottom and actually thinks deeper then that. just becuase most top players calls 'x' character mid doesnt mean they arent polarizing and cant easily run through a bracket.
Fantastic video, so insightful and unique relatively to other smash content. I hope you make more content as I can totally see you taking off on youtube
Muteace is very good at explaining things - not only is he incredibly knowledgeable (and skilled) at the game but he's able to explain things really well
muteace is like the crazy old man who comes back to the village telling everyone their horrible experiences but no one believes them lmao, your perspective on the game is interesting and fresh
In voids sheik guide I think he says something like "the only reason you should play sheik is if you want to look cool" and I think that's pretty much the reason for most people who play some of the harder characters. We don't just want to win, we want to look and feel cool while we are doing it
I think it have to do with the person play style. Not everyone have the same play style. Whatever work for them, have to work with me too. I cant play steve, ROB or G&W I get bored playing them.
I just like winning with my favourite characters. 🤷
To build off it more, the only reason you should play majority of the really hard characters is if you genuinely believe in their kit and the character. You don't pick up Sheik/Peach/Bayo/Icies/ZSS etc if the end goal is to just win, you pick them up because you believe that their kit is great enough to win and you already like the character
@@wlt3585 nah it was just cus sheik combos looked badass
@@Cosmic_Mario_ "you already like the character"
some of you are not watching the same video. but i knew that would happen. continue.
I feel like the good players know what you are saying
@@PrinceCollinXXX u dont have to be good to understand what hes saying either. I suck at ultimate and im kinda okay at melee, and in melee its super obvious that fox and falco are probably better charafters than marth but marth is much easier to win with. There have been no solo foxes or falcos to every be ranked #1 (mango has done it dual maining them though) and there have been 3 different people that have gotten #1 with solo marth (ken, m2k, and zain)
@@PrinceCollinXXX i feel like the good players, and me understand.
@@curtiss9116 you are probably a good player even if you aren’t good at ultimate
@@Welldamn-c5y I believe he was being satirical with the whole “hardest character” thing but there’s no doubt with the way smash is, that some characters are just easier than others. Even so, having the best/better character option available doesn’t mean you should pick it, that’s why there’s such a huuuuuge roster, to play who you enjoy(which some people forget to do), and plus, it’s just a personal opinion :]
I really enjoyed this, I’ve been trying to express the same thing for a long time but you put it super well together.
Thank you izaw!
They probably don't believe you after saying Steve is bottom tier.
@@krazyzyko that joke is 3 years old
"Steve is bottom tier" Izaw, telling us "yeah I thought about this before you :)"
shut up.
@@nwz6084 bruh, he said that about week one steve 😭 it’s time to let go, week one tier lists were shit too
Incredibly entertaining and masterful understanding of why characters win. I really liked how you touch on the point of """"bad""""" characters winning not being surprising when the conventional good character's job is spending the entire match preventing the conventional bad character from doing that 1 thing 1 time to kill them. We will be watching the next video
“This trailer packed you up ngl”
I’ve always said that a meta is based on 2 things. 1) how popular a character/deck/strategy is and 2) how easy it is to do your thing with that character/deck/strategy.
Like many games
I have watched this video a multitude of times and it's most likely my favorite video on RUclips, truly a masterpiece.
Same
Saying not to play Rosa is so real and fats and based
Goat
Real
This was a genuinely excellent video! Great insight, articulated well, really well chosen clips that perfectly illustrate the points being talked about, which I know can be a huge time sink to hunt down. Really hope you'll keep going with this, it's one of the more exciting Ultimate channels I've seen in a long time.
Some points of interest:
0:00 Start of the video
5:08 R.O.B. & Kazuya and why the win tier does well.
8:40 Characters scale at levels of game play.
9:50 People just playing the character, but not making decisions, expecting opponent to make a mistake. You need to force a mistake to happen by making threats. Leading into gameplay examples of forcing mistakes .
14:06 If a pro is "trolling around", then the risk reward is stupid.
15:13 "normal characters" Palutena and Cloud is usually running away and swatting at you. People don't know how to use stage and win conditions.
16:08 Easy tier
16:21 Samus
17:13 Mythra doesn't have X factor
17:53 Terry is broken 'cuz infinite supers. Back into Mythra talk
20:10 If you learn Kazuya inputs, you become a player.
21:15 Difficulty tier list and Peach being put in same tier as Kazuya is offensive
22:05 Ice Climbers practice setups, then use them at you. Mashers that don't even look at you.
24:23 If you wanna win, these are the best picks. They play for you.
25:03 Fox
25:36 Roy
25:49 Characters don't interact and disengage, have their own game plan, or prevent you from doing your game plan. They don't pay attention to matchups as much. 26:05 Game & Watch example.
30:40 Examples of some characters that top players pick
31:10 Peach lacks the "glue" to bring the move set together. Like Pikachu's T-jolt example at 32:07. 33:02 Pacman example.
33:45 Joker teleports out of the game
35:02 Incineroar is not fair
37:33 ZSS, Sheik, Pichu and janky hitboxes
37:57 Hard to win with tier and is not worth it
39:26 Not many hard characters in Ultimate. Why play them over easy ones if you want to win? Leading into Bayonetta talk
42:21 Sephiroth is precise (I'm a little biased 'cuz main. There are other characters talked around this spot for a brief moment)
43:27 Mewtwo is easy, Wadi just uses 3 moves
44:00 What normal tier is. Easy to play, will do what you are putting out.
48:02 Little Mac and Peanut
49:43 Wario is hard to win with
52:35 The secret to winning. Pick a character in top 2 or 3 tiers, then pick one character that complements them in normal to counterpick.
53:15 You are now Protobanham Who plays Min Min and Lucina
53:24 If you pick 2 characters from win tier, you are now Acola
53:54 Olimar & Mythra = Shuton
54:03 Glutto, Tweek, MuteAce, and Dabuz being down in the hard characters section
I've never felt so vindicated in my fucking life. Been dead inside for years and this video had me squealing in joy that my opinions on the game don't solely stem from my inadequacies. I mainly play wifi tournaments, and constantly hearing top players talk about Samus being mediocre, and kazuya being hard drove me insane. The only place left for the anger to be directed was at myself for being bad since I clearly fundamentally misunderstood something about the game. I'm still bad, but thank you for making me feel like I'm not insane or an egomaniac for disagreeing with them.
I understand what you mean lmfao. I’d always talk about characters like Kazuya and Luigi just waiting for their moment to do their execution tests to win and people would just give me weird eyes, look at ZSS and say “bro she’s so hard to hit.” So what if I’m hard to hit? I find it hard to hit you with any move but zair and it takes you two neutral interactions to get an very hard-to-beat checkmate condition
Edit: to add, the characters who have to have intricate movement to get in for neutral and also have to use that movement and *mostly nothing else to close the gap without a secure win waiting after the interaction is won, the character is hard
I was saying the exact same thing in chat during this stream lol. Feel you
u are trolling there is literally no way a top player said kazuya is hard. its nearly unanimous among all levels of play except like intermediate and below that kazuya is brain rot easy. drop names rn because tbh i dont believe you.
@@damarihanson3876 its definitely stressful, but if you play zss its literally what you signed up for. not saying it isn't difficult, but this is like playing mac and complaining about getting air camped
@@eitak12334 It’s absolutely what I signed up for. I just find it weird that other people playing these characters with way higher risk-reward in their favour being pessimistic and always looking for an easy secondary for a bad matchup instead of trying to put their all into what they know best
As a Luigi main, this video is completely correct on what ACTUALLY matters in the game. The more I’ve played ultimate the more I actually think Luigi is high tier not only because he can kill you at literally any percent, but also because his up B is a silent comeback mechanic that will always give Luigi a chance to win the game. Funny enough I also used to play Palu, but thought it wouldn’t make sense to play Luigi if I’m also willing to play Palu to cover bad matchups when I can just main Palu. However, this video opened my eyes to why it actually makes perfect sense for me to do that since Palu is relatively low maintenance and covers every bad Luigi matchup.
I feel like Mute is so consistently funny on accident
Actually, very good content. Like the commentary, added editing, and overall spectacular analysis is what we need more in smash. Keep it up! 👍💯
I really liked the concept of "glue". That one central piece that holds the whole kit together by applying pressure to the opponent makes so much sense for a lot of characters.
As a pika main I’ve never thought of him without tjolt….and yeah that sounds rough.
Or without quick attack.
He has 2 glues imo.
@@natecallon9755nah its pancake. The glue is the stuff that immediately forces the opponent to adjust and start working on a way to outplay the hero without just using their character flowchart.
@@davidquintanilla9330 oh absolutely, that’s more of an attribute I thought than a specific move as bair dair and sometimes even dash attack will pancake and go under stuff, but yeah absolutely that too.
@@davidquintanilla9330 and heavily agree that he forces the enemy to learn how to outplay him and can’t really autopilot against pika.
or things meant to make the character bad. ganondorf has good attacks, but his other stats are low (ground/air speed, jump height, etc.) imagine captain falcon, but he hits as hard as ganondorf. that would be broken.
I really had to take a step back and think about my understanding of the game after watching this video. The game is quite complex, though oddly more simple than I originally thought it was. Regardless, it’s another reminder that I still have a long way to go. Can’t wait to see more informative content!
its real simple. good on wifi = don't have to react to the opponent = easy character. bad on wifi = interactive = hard character.
It's insane how well you understand this game and are able to explain everything so good
This is such a real discussion of the meta of this game. People get waaaay too caught up in the "on paper" attributes of a character, but the truth is way way deeper. The trouble is that its difficult to compose all of these complicated topics into something cohesive like this. There is so much truth spoken in this video its crazy.
The joy I expressed when you put young link in the slight effort tier
As a Peach main for like 5 years now, this perfectly describes how I feel about the game. Honestly, being used to playing a hard character makes it a ton easier to win with characters that don't require as much effort. I can practice for an hour with Peach to warm up, and suddenly my Samus is good despite me never actually practicing Samus, or I'll get a 3-stock with Kazuya because I'm still in the same mindspace that I was when I was playing Peach. If you play an actually hard character, it becomes way easier to outplay your opponents when picking an easier one that you're even decently familiar with. That, and if you already do something hard (I play piano and do art despite having Tourettes), it makes it so that you have to spend less time on mastering execution, which is the only "hard" part about a lot of characters with insane risk-reward. Peach just has so many potential setups in specific scenarios that you can't exactly practice all of them, and even if you do, you can easily forget, so you have to have good execution and awareness. Not to mention getting your starters with her can actually be hard against a decent opponent, so a lot of the time, your crazy damage output doesn't even come into play, and you end up having to chip away at your opponent until like 150% because you were finally in a good spot to call out their ledge jump with fair.
i really really love this perspective about the differences between characters. Was helpful to hear how you elaborated on their own conditions to win- the concept about characters ability to play and their plan to win. It's something that I realized when I started to have trouble winning with Captain falcon and Wolf. You can't just play your own plan to win the game- you need to adapt to other dominant win conditions.
I’ve had this thought recently, very satisfying to witness such a succinct and knowledgeable breakdown of it. Masterfully made and mute’s style of commentary makes it so entertaining
Make an updated version of this please, it was so fun to listen to!!!! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
This video is so good. I feel like I'm hearing someone tell the truth about competive ultimate for the first time.
Don’t want to take away from Mute at all, but you would feel the same vibe from Mars and Esam in their analysis videos
First of all, hiiii nice to see you posting again
I saw the player we all need (the Steve slayer) on my homepage so I clicked. very happy hearing him ramble its so good
I’m really glad you were there for last summit because you’re insightful commentary was gold when you were on the couch. I can see you excelling in these types of videos if you decide on pursuing that if you’re interested that. I’m only 14 mins in so far but I’ll be sure to enjoy the rest when I have time
learned how to win the game, will continue to solo main wario
Love this content era Mute. Time to become a pillar in the community 👑
'Samsora was here'
Preach that gospel Mute. Hanging on every word.
I'll be honest, you are probably one of the only Top pro players right now who actually has a real understanding on how this stupid game works, I love how you explain win conditions and the glue concept, people should really really stop the copium and understand that there are polarizing braindead characters that just make winning so much easier. I could sit and watch any video of you explaining characters one by one, cause I know you'd be keeping it real with no bs, good shit Mute, great video.
dude no joke peach is just to complex for me. props on you for being so consistent and not getting too exausted
Also, never switch off Peach. It’s always the main show in any tournament
Oh my God! I don’t play smash but I’ve always followed its competitive scene closely. It makes me want to die when top players talk about match ups “on paper.” The game doesn’t happen on paper! The goal is to beat other people with a game plan. It doesn’t matter how many good moves and good stuff a character has. The only thing a character needs to be good is a good game plan. Even if a character has only 2 good moves, if they have a viable game plan, they can beat you. I love that you’re the 1 top player who seems to think this. I’ve wondered if I was the only person thinking this for so long. Great video!
The concept of “on paper” is most useful when you’re talking about an extremely powerful gameplan that has a lot of parts or is hard to implement, like sheik, peach, joker, diddy, pac-man
@@yurplethepurple2064 And I get that. I just feel like people throw around the phrase on paper too much, and it was refreshing to hear somebody talk about the game in a more straightforward and practical way.
@@jasonorsag1195 for sure
this is still one of the most goated discussion vids
This video really speaks to the the level of ego that some people have in this game far more than anything else
how
@@august18016”character I lose to at majors to better players in win tier” “characters I actually play in lose tier”
you know pac man is broken because I watch Tea destroy people in tournament, and in the player cam, he has his legs crossed like he's chillin on vacation xD
mute you are fucking hilarious.... "do you know how many rob nairs ive parried just for positioning??" so true i love the way you see the game! Im a new fan of yours. WIll be rooting you on in tournament.
To me it seems like a concept of understanding which characters’ win conditions are easier to get, or rather, more practical in a competitive setting. For example, Mute has amazing turnip combos, but how often do you actually see them in bracket? Versus Game and Watch just getting a successful edgeguard/ledgetrap? The latter is seen much more in tournament, simply because it’s easier to accomplish and harder to avoid. Even if you know going in what that character’s win condition is, avoiding it is another thing entirely, i.e. the “gymnastics” he mentions. It’s very difficult in practice.
I’m a super casual player but I’m a middle school teacher and bring my switch for the kids to play. I teach all 3 grades and all grades have an absurd hatred of Sonic G&W and Pikachu and will often ask me to step in and beat their classmates because without fail those players will win.
Also only three students have ever given me trouble in game. Two were students a few years back, one was an incin main and the other maimed Luigi. The third is a student I have now who mains G&W and Steve.
Interesting that my classes reflect you idea of the ease of win even at the most casual level
I’m genuinely curious how good your students are cuz I feel like Sonic and Pika only get egregious once your at a certain level.
THe fucking sage of smash. Straight spitting over an entire hour or more
This is probably the best super smash Brothers ultimate video online without competition.
People who are first getting into the game really need to understand what's being said and take it to heart.
This is why it's so hard to explain to people that difference between a character's viability in a vacuum vs what will actually happen in a tournament. It's why there is more consistent among some characters than others at every level of the game. And why some characters that are in the same tier have much different results on a week-to-week and month-to-month basis.
Hollup, let him cook...
Mute talks about peach the same way fox players talked about fox-puff back when hbox was winning everything.
Honestly this is an interesting way to view the game
Ok but you actually got me back into the game lol it's awesome watching peach be in the spotlight again :)
After years, this list FINALLY helped me come up with a proper secondary/co-main. Or at least sent me in a better direction. Appreciate that
I love you Muteace, I have this video on constant repeat.
You put into perfect words what I have been telling my friends for some time. Kazuya is more toxic to smaller regions than Steve because it's "better" in this tier list you made. I always told my friends: smash is a game about taking stocks, not about winning neutral, and Kazuya is the best at taking stocks
Steve >>>
Idk, Steve might be just as good at taking stocks along with having one of the best neutrals. Spot dodge into spam utilt literally plays the game for you and guarantees at least like 70%, if not the stock. Add blocks to the mix and there is no such thing as neutral. You're always in disadvantage
Really interesting the idea of the counterplay being way harder. I've seen this happen in a lot of other games.
In apex you had a slow firing, heavy DMG lmg that was broken cause it just did way too much DMG and people were like "well the fast smgs outdmg it and you can kill them before they kill you"
The problem being if you make even a slight error, you have to reload while they keep shooting forever and you lose.
If you play perfectly, you win. But more often than not you're not going to and Moreover you shouldnt have to play absolutely perfectly to beat something that is far easier than what you're doing.
Playing anyone who isn’t a top tier cheese character is basically blowing your legs off and doing a race with said cheese characters
I think talking about Palu Incineroar is the wrong debate to be having. I think one of the easiest ways to show that tier list =/= winning is Aegis. She’s easy as fuck to play but at the same time, she can just be easy to lose with.
There’s a reason a ton of top players get one loss, go back home and make their edgy ass emo tweet about “tired of losing, gonna make Kazuya/Steve/Aegis” and then the next week they’re back playing their main. Not to mention the most commonly dropped characters are often top tiers. It’s not Sm4sh where you can you play a shit character but have a pocket Cloud and be good. If you main a low tier, you’re more likely to go further in bracket with just your main than playing a pocket character, even through bad matchups, just from inexperience alone.
That’s very true. Imagine if skyjay switched off incin for “bad” matchups. And look how far he goes just staying solo.
It’s similar for some other bad characters where Peanut wouldn’t magically do better if he switched to Aegis, despite being at polar opposites of top and bottom tier. Some players have characters that just stick with them and characters that don’t.
Yeti is so sickkk, I mad respect all the MegaMains. Lemons has more skill behind it then entire fucking characters
Outstanding video. Made me realize that I need to think bigger-picture with this game! The idea of "glue" is especially helpful. Thank you!
So glad someone actually knows what they are talking about, been on smash twitter threads recently and good GOD they need to see this vid with the swiftness
Tea spamming EWGF in neutral 4 times in a row is another example of how fucked the risk reward is in Kazuya's favour for pressing legit any button near you is.
You truly have a one of a kind understanding of this game and its amazing to see. Super excited for this mute content era and will always be supporting you no matter what!❤
This stream was so much fun to be there for. Hope you do more of these meta and analysis type streams/videos in the future!
I just can't understand how Pikachu isn't in hard to win with. Literally one Pikachu main worth talking about (Shinymark). Character can cheese certain match-up, but also dies early af and struggles to kill. Like Sephiroth is in "hard to win with" tier to you, but Pika isn't? It just weirds me out how EVERYONE has been saying Pika is top 5 for most of the game, yet where are the Pika mains?
I don't even play this game but this is one of the best videos about smash ever made
Omg I'm so happy you posted this! I remember literally almost crying when watching this on stream. Just out of pure vindication. This actually moved me. I remember the whole stream was just begging you to post this. Such a godlike speech/rant! Thank you Mute!
I knew Mute was based from hearing his couch commentary at Genesis. Love your thought processes
Bro wtf this is like my favorite smash video EVER, I absolutely loved this video and would love to see more informative videos like this in the future!!
This actually more refreshing to see and it seems easier to understand than a typical “oh skill ceiling” or wtv, instead it breaks down in depth things like win conditions and how mus in bracket have effects. I loved watching this!
i've watched this video 3 times since you uploaded it, it's absolutely cathartic to hear a top player talk about the game honestly. some characters just allow you to play a different game than everyone else, and that's ok, but the people who play them just won't admit it. the day rob mains start doing tick throws after a down tilt instead of just mashing, it's over lol.
I'm not big on tier lists, but this is my favorite one and probably the most true and realistic one.
It's very intriguing to listen to you talk about the game in-depth. Great video. :)
you are changing the way I think ab ultimate might even book session to hear more, good shit
I subbed immediately after watching this. I disagreed with exactly one thing out of 1000, you’re straight spittin my man. Amazing video, and amazing way of putting it. Utmost respect to you
actually one of the best breakdowns of the game i’ve ever seen. such a good video, mute! you are a very smart guy thank you for sharing
this is never something i had considered before, but it makes so much sense now that i think about it. it really does feel like you gotta fight the characters more than the players at times which is such a pain
I actually think this is the most honest and applicable tier list I have ever seen
(References that've helped ME as a low intermediate player [in a very general sense])
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1:08
2:40
6:43
9:25
10:35
15:26
18:39
22:54
27:09
27:41
29:04
Please make more content like this! I love hearing your perspectives and you are really inspiring
Respect the work you put into the character and the game. Would love to see more longform in depth content. Keep it up!
god i love muteace man. Speaks TRUTH
Muteace love this vid. You're one of the best personalities and players in smash. Keep the content coming
Truuuuuuuuu
Honestly. This video is amazing imo. As the most middle of the road garbage kind of player, I can easily see both sides of this argument. Eventually, I will have the energy to explain what I think the issue is with easy versus hard character as a mindset.
This is how I’ve felt with smash since smash 4, probably even moreso with that game cause of all the ZtD that existed or patches band-aid fixes being throw into aerials killing sub 50% with rage or maybe even none.
But ult and especially a good chunk of FP1/2 has brought back that terrible feeling s4 used to give and was one of the main reasons I still can’t bring myself to fully return to this game since 2015.
Still finishing up this vid but the last 15ish mins been good to hear someone else say, even if it’s possibly been parroted by people in vids or twitter, easy for it to get buried when it’s short clips or tweets.
This was such a great video to watch! I've only gotten Ultimate and actually started playing it a couple months ago, though I've been watching competitive play for years, where I main Yoshi + Cloud/Sephiroth and this video made me really think about my understanding of this game since I never thought of it like that! You definitely earned my sub, I'm excited to see more of this informative content in the future hopefully!
super entertaining AND informative in a rly unique way. this is crazy good content
A whole hour of my insanity and issues about this game, validated. Take my sub. Loved your comms at Summit btw.
(my Joker does need help)
@27:17 As snake player, I'm shaking my head in agreeance with no shame. Muteace knows his shit👌🏾
i got flamed in a comment section for saying kazuya doesn’t have a bad disadvantage state 😂 everyone just listens to what casters repeat every set and can’t form their own opinions on the game
His disadvantage is still pretty bad, but it’s not proportional whatsoever to his advantage state
It's very exaggerated indeed, he has a bunch of stuff like good quick disjointed aerials with a nice hitbox for landing, good fall speed, a double jump cancel mix-up and of course the threat of neutral airdodge into EWGF right after
this is the realest video i’ve seen in a while
This video is my religion now
I have come back and watched this video every month and it is not only entertaining but informative
You are extremely insightful. Peach is an honest character.
this is an incredibly good video. i feel like you eloquently put things that i’ve thought about for a long time thinking about the game but didn’t have the background to fully understand
i found myself agreeing with nearly everything
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Robin is not a "normal" character to use, he's hard and there's many specific MUs where you can't just use projectiles, 1/3 of the cast with reflectors and more than 2/3 of chars with moves that just beat your projectiles. Adding to that you have to count for your spells and if you want to not risk dying you might have to cancel his recovery twice with a 3-4 frames windows that otherwise puts you in a bad spot, one of the slowest characters in the game, laggy moves, 3 moves with practical applications if you B reverse them, charge a special for up to 4 seconds, etc. Literally most players that use this char are crap and play in a very simplistic way hence why there's not one at the top, because he's very hard to use properly.
On consideration you’re right. I’m just not thinking of Robin like that cause yknow but yeah good point!
@@MuteAce i’d put Robin next to Rosalina I think but otherwise the list is so accurate
Im wondering how exhausted light gets, he sometimes looks like he has infinite energy and other times he burns out
Demonic is the perfect word to describe Pac-Man
I literally just watched the 4 hr vod this is from at work yesterday and then showed it to my friends today lol I love this video
This video is so well put together and confirmed some points i was expressing about the game and about certain characters and this makes me happy .
hope to see more contend like this in the future
Most IC players don't play against you, they play AT you
I need people to spot the difference
FINALLY someone who doesnt just think of characters as top tier/mid/bottom and actually thinks deeper then that. just becuase most top players calls 'x' character mid doesnt mean they arent polarizing and cant easily run through a bracket.
Fantastic video, so insightful and unique relatively to other smash content. I hope you make more content as I can totally see you taking off on youtube
Best commentary on the meta I've seen in a while. Fantastic video, great job, Mute!
Muteace is actually spitting so much its unreal
Muteace is very good at explaining things - not only is he incredibly knowledgeable (and skilled) at the game but he's able to explain things really well
Yes! I've thought about the game like this for a while and it's so nice to finally see a shared perspective