Why Mortal Kombat's Variation System Should Return
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- Why MKX's Variation System should return, so we can have our ninja cake and eat it.
Credit to 'The Poor Guy', for the amazing ninja footage:
• I put all the Palette-...
#mk #mk1 #variations #mkx #ninja
I've seen this mentioned by multiple people in the past, but I think a good idea would be combining the variation system from mkx and premier skins from Inj2, that way you get multiple characters in one character, a couple examples I thought of are
Kabal Variations:
Vigilante (base Kabal moveset)
S.W.A.T. (comes with a Stryker premier skin)
Criminal (comes with a Mavado premier skin)
Cassie Cage Variations:
Wrestler (this actually comes from the mkx comics but also the idea that besides characters like hsu hao and meat having said fighting style, we don't actually have a wrestler character in MK surprisingly and Cassie has potential to be unique among some of the wrestlers in fighting games like Zangief)
Hollywood (Johnny Cage base moveset and comes with Johnny Cage premier skin)
Spec Ops (Sonya Blade base moveset and comes with Sonya Blade premier skin)
Dairou Variations:
Mercenary (base Dairou moveset)
Guardsman (Comes with Hotaru Premier skin)
Resistance member (Comes with Darrius Premier skin)
I have a couple others like a Shokan variations for Goro, Kintaro, and Sheeva or Sons of Argus variations for Rain, Taven, and Daegon but I'd be here all day listing them and I think everyone gets the idea
This is the shit I'm talking about!
You took it a step further, cause I didn't think of anything for the non-ninjas, but pairing the Cage family makes perfect sense. Love all the other trios as well; lotta interchangeable characters even beyond the ninjas, like the Shokan you pointed out.
Love this.
@@CynicalWarlock thanks a lot
Why stop there? We can cram in more characters in the roster by reducing the less interesting/niche ones as kameos ( *cough cough* Kano's Black Dragon goons *cough cough* )
My brother in Christ, youre cookin with gas💥
I love your idea! Oh, and what if you could have a customizable variation where you could swap moves and looks? (Just for online modes, of course) You could create a Cassie with a moveset completely like Johnny's or even create a Johnny with a Sonya move set!
_“You know that really cool feature we had that everyone (mostly) loved? Yeah, let’s get rid of that completely and make it so you can only access a weaksauce version of it every 20 seconds.”_
Couldn't have said it better.
variation system sucked. Give the characters all their tools and let the player cook. If you enjoy using half a character then you do you I guess
@@doogerw2675 Not what I'm suggesting, my man.
@@doogerw2675
Yes, I do in fact like variety and different ways to play. It’s part of what made MKX so entertaining to watch back in the day, but to each their own if you prefer less strategy and something more straightforward and simple. That’s why I added keyword: “mostly” in because obviously not everyone is going to agree on the same gameplay loop. Nothing wrong with preference, MK doesn’t really have an identity or know what it wants to be nowadays honestly.
I like how mk11 didbit with customizable moves. And how they added for example the milleen stance for kitana. It makes the character customization more customizable
Strongly agree. Variations have a lot of potential when done well
I'd like them to add fighting styles again
Yeah, that's the most elegant solution.
And fighting styles also added to the characters' personalities, that's something people forgot. You could see that Scorpion uses Hapkido, then google the actual martial art and conclude that yeah, that's totally something Scorps would use.
I would only be down with this, if each variation keeps their look and personality. For example: jade variation better walk, talk, look, stand, taunt and fight uniquely like jade.
That's exactly my idea. The visual and audio sides would have to be done from scratch, for each Variation/character.
@@CynicalWarlock that’s the only acceptable way. I’d rather just have the real character if not.
Mortal Kombat *Twitter* lmfao XD
Truly the most brutal battlefield since Armageddon.
Personally, I wouldn't mind if they continually added more ninjas over time. Though I'd like to see more of Tremor, and better treatment to the existing ninjas. Especially my boi, Reptile.
Truly a harrowing warzone, yes.
That's the other way you could do this, and I'm totally down for it; just add ninjas as DLC, post-release.
NRS won't devote an entire kombat pack to em, though, because there are many other characters always fighting for the spotlight, on top of which you add guest characters, which likely sell the best.
My idea is that we should have only 2 variation, but you can change during the fight using a input. I think we could have a meter for change the variation (so you you can'tchange all the time during the match, only in some moments) for example, imagine that you started a combo with one of the jonny cage variations, then, you press "variation bottom" and the time stops for a moment, jonny cage put he's glasses on and says "action", and reset the combo, so you can do more stuff, like a roman cancel or a V-trigger system. Beginning a combo with one variation and ending with another.
Having a transition bar is actually a cool idea. Adds some depth to the gameplay and is a distinct resource you have to manage. And combining that bar with the regular meter is what yields the highest damage combos; that way you can have fairly balanced, not too broken or one-sided gameplay, and also have the occasional super-swaggy combo that deletes half your health bar.
@@CynicalWarlock and it can also be a resource for other things, for example, if you press this "change variation input" while being attacked you activate a counter attack like a "burst" (changing variations automatically after use) this would cost the entire variation bar. Another example , if you use the fatal blow without having the full variation bar, you will only have the first "scene" of this fatal blow, which does less damage but keeps you in that variation that you are currently using, but if you have the full variation bar, you can spend it to have 2 scenes and take more damage from the opponent, so the fatal blow can have 2 activation variations and it doesn't always goes into a very long cutscene, but it would automatically switch to the second variation after use for "BIG DAMAGE". Now imagine if Sonic Fox was winning a match using a variation with "zoning" tools, would he switch to the other variation during a combo, risking having to change the game plan to get more damage (until his variation gauge gets full again)or would he maintain that variation until he wins the match?
Every character becomes a stance character
@@LOWBORN-the-LOATHSOME well, every caracter has a projectile anyway, so i don't think they care about arquetypes anyway.
@@LOWBORN-the-LOATHSOME and the 3D era was already Exactly that.
0:11 😂 This is probably the funniest opening to a video I've seen from you, Warlock. Thank you for this.
Nailed it!💪
@@CynicalWarlockside note, Happy Lunar New Year! Today marks the start to Year of the Dragon. 🐉
@@kylenguyen7371 I do like dragons..
Whenever CynicalWarlock drops a video it’s like a small Christmas, without the personal family trauma associated with the holiday
That's a joke I'd totally make.
More ninjas please.💪🏾💙
Imagine Chrome or Hydro being added in a future game? Or new ninjas!
@@Alpha1918isn’t there a female named ruby as well?
@@Almighty_Jedi Yeah, from Defenders of the Realm. Considered non-canon.
@@Alpha1918 I'd definitely go for new ones.
@@Almighty_Jedi what’s funny is I saw this guy on deviant art that makes mk character drawings, and thought ruby was an original character he made up. But perhaps she’s also one of those hidden ninjas lol.
Interesting idea however the problem is all of the current ninjas are so unique and different on their own that it's impossible to make something like this and not get backlash from everybody. the only thing the ninjas have in common are their "ninja costumes" even though some of like Ermac may not even be a ninja at all.this worked for the cyborgs cuz being a cyborg is not just a costume and all the current cyborgs kept their robot identity in their moveset.
Perhaps, though I feel you're overestimate the importance of character identity. To be clear, all these characters/variations would still need to have their own distinct visual and audio design, so different skins, clothes, voice actors, specials, idle animations, even some normals. I don't think Ermac needs to float and throw mini-soul punches to be Ermac, or Reptile to have claw attacks as his normals, so I think it's very doable, and better than not getting them in the game at all, or getting just breadcrumbs, like MK11 Shang's ninja variation.
@@CynicalWarlock I can't not feel like, you are the one who is underestimating identities. with the route that you are going their identities would just one or two special moves and it would feel lazy and repetitive if in this point in time every ninja had the same normal
@@CynicalWarlock but I think the very main issue with the problem we have here is the fact that NRS is supporting these games far from long enough. And it doesn't help the fact that WB has to make stupid demands for them to make and move on this quick and this unfortunately results for us having our characters being quickly and dramatically changed or just being straight up removed and have to wait years for them to appear again.
I'm not really a fan of variations because the only differences they give are moves and subtle design chances. But I do like the idea of Noob Saibot being part of Sub-Zero's "kit" if you will, or the cyborgs for the humans even if those forms aren't "in" the game. Reminds me of Kazuya having his Devil costume in the first Tekken with at the time no context or story purpose.
That's exactly it. Can call it Variations 2.0.
And for characters like Sonya, that are standalone, Variations still serve a purpose, for specialists, allowing them to pick different versions of Sonya that change her playstyle and/or give them a better chance against a particular matchup, instead of having to learn an entirely new character.
Roaster for next MK: one Tryborg for all cyborg ninjas, one Khameleon for all female ninjas, one Chameleon for all male ninjas and some other distinct chars
so you’ll have 7 variations for a single character Scorpion, Sub, Noob, Reptile, Ermac, Rain, Tremor but the entire game only have like 4-5 character? Interesting
I would not be ok with this if it’s just khameleon with their moves. I need the actual characters.
An amalgamation of 7 characters is not the same as being able to play as any one of those 7. That's like saying you'll put Jax's ground pound, Sonya's leg grab, and Cage's nut punch in one character, not include any of them as standalone fighters within the roster, and expect Jax, Cage and Sonya fans to be happy with that.
Plus, these are all different archetypes - zoners, rushdown, setup-heavy etc. - while the amalgamation would be none of these; it would be its own archetype, so you're killing quite a bit of optionality, on the gameplay front.
Can't wait for the new Ashra's character analisys that will never arrive 😂
If only I made these in alphabetical order, right?
Even though Sub-Zero has confirmed that his clan are not ninjas even though ninjas are basically a Japanese thing which is what Scorpion Hanzo hisashi is.
Yeah sub zeros chinese so his clan is just chinese assassins, but then again cyrax is apparently botswanan so idk
Would've been too much of a hassle to add "slash non-Japanese assassins" to every sentence.
@@CynicalWarlock ninjas and Shinobi are totally different ninjas usually stayed in castles to protect their feudal Lords while shinobi's were the ones that were sent out on missions to gather information.
Nice vid dude... You're holding up your end of the 'entertain me' agreement we had 👍
And you're still watching and commenting.
Fair trade.
@@CynicalWarlock indeed mr Warlock... Let's meet each other next video!
Variations remind me of Echo Fighters. Give kharacters the same basic move set but with different specials and minor differences.
I want a variation of Shao Kahn that uses blood magic since we know he taught Skarlet her magic, even creating her using blood magic depending on what the canon feels like that day. I would also have this variation use his sear more than his hammer since it would be a better weapon to make his opponent bleed with. He could even augment his spear with blood like Skarlet does her knife by temporarily turning it into a scythe with a blood blade.
Love the idea. We've never seen Shao use Blood, despite knowing he can do it; there's so much untapped potential there.
Would also make a grudge match between Shao and Kotal epic - 2 top-tier Blood users.
My final thought on this video's discussion which I forgot to post earlier, Warlock, is that variations are great. Unfortunately, NRS likely won't return to them for a long time because they determined and admitted that it was overly ambitious of them to make them all viable (or keep them that way). They felt MKX was manageable but admitted to it being difficult, while the custom load-out variations were most certainly more ambitious than they were able to commit to. Hence why I am of the mind that they likely won't bring back variations without serious concessions to address the daunting nature of these tasks for them. Those concessions could mean limiting variations in terms of scope, limiting the roster, or just waiting for a massive increase in budget.
Compare/Contrast MKX variations to the "Ism" system of the Street Fighter Alpha series or the grooves from the Capcom Vs. SNK series. These clearly inspired the variation system in MKX, but they behave differently; MKX variations can have drastic effects on a character's entire kit at a fundamental level, while the Capcon games' systems kept characters mostly intact at the core/fundamental level. Similarly, the load-out system of MK11's custom variations can be compared and contrasted to another fighting game's system mechanics - the capsule tray system of the Dragon Ball Z Budokai games stands out here. If NRS decides to re-visit either of those forms of variation mechanics, it is possible that they may draw from the lessons learned by Capcom from that era of gaming or from the Budokai series to address the mechanics' ambitious nature.
Well I'd go the Street Fighter route with the Variations anyway. The fighters' core kits should stay mostly intact, from variation to variation (talking about the non-ninjas). No more Sub without an ice clone.
And if overambition or budgetary constraints are the problem, then I'm all for having just a solid roster of characters. No variations, no nothing. Problem is NRS always feel obliged to dish out some kind of gimmick, whether that's custom loadouts, kameos, or some other thing to 'hook' the playerbase. So you can be sure that they'll continue to be overly-ambitious and misallocate resources on arguably the wrong things. With my idea, they could at least have their cake and eat it, in a sense, but it's not a perfect solution, of course.
it would be cool if we could do the variation change just like a special move, and since special moves can be canceled into from normal kombo's, the amount of choice a character can have is insane, for example, having triborg do a double down and to the right would choose his right variation and he would change into that variation instantly and you could continue with a combo from that variation instead of like smoke or sub zero. just a thought.
Yeah, someone else suggested something similar. I feel like all of these mechanics from past games - fighting styles, tag teams, variations, kameos - they're all converging towards a breakthrough.
Not sure what it is yet, but it's phenomenal.
If variations means stuff MKX Kotal Kahn and Triborg
I'm all for it
Not a fan?
@@CynicalWarlock I'm a fan of both but I think some variations don't change enough
imo they should be distinct on a basic level before being distinct gameplay wise
the way I'd do it if I was in charge is let's take for example Sektor, one variation takes inspiration from his blade iteration in deadly alliance, the other is fully armored cyborg from MK9 and MKX, and the third is him wearing a robotic suit (that's what he will look like in MK1 according to speculation from the expansion leaks)
as for gameplay I think locking staples of a character behind variations is a bad decision (IIRC that's what they did to Sub Zero)
@@DarkRei7 Sounds like most of your issues are with the visual side. That can easily be fixed. And NRS do tend to release plenty of skins anyway.
Agree on the gameplay front - Sub-Zero's ice clone and Raiden's teleport should be part of their core moveset.
Just use the Chameleons/Khameleons for this task and it'll work brilliantly. Also Triborg is a stupid name because he ALSO has Cyber Sub-Zero's abilities; making him a Quadborg. Just thought I'd point that out.😅
Great video.👍
Oh also why not use Kenshi for masked guards, shadow Priests, or other monk characters perhaps? Frost could be used for Sub-Zero as well.
Yes, was gonna mention the Quadborg thing; glad you brought it up.
Gender-swap ickiness aside, Frost could definitely be included, as a Sub-Zero variation, yeah.
Not sure I get the Kenshi thing, though.
@@CynicalWarlock Because you can't use Ermac's abilities because he's part of the ninjas Kenshi is closest for the Shadow Priests, and he has a sword; which you could turn into a staff or use for the masked guards. Also his fighting style is sorta monk like, so there's 3 characters right there that could be used as Kenshi counterparts.
WE MAKIN IT OUT THE KAMEO SYSTEM WITH THIS ONE👏👏👏
The variation system just introduced more diversity in tactics with the same character. New characters is always cool but the MK roster is large enough in each game.
Yep. The pressure on pro players to find the most broken characters to compete with partly buried the variation system; cause everyone used mostly just those variations, and the potential of all the others was discovered quite late in the game's lifespan.
I mainly want a feature to chose which costume I want for a character while in the select menu.
Elmer the one eyed forklift operator for mk1
Need more maimed people representation.
if i'm right, theres basically exactly 99 characters/variations to play as in x, + 1 for the secret character (100) and +32 for the variationless characters. You can do alot, even the laziest variations (like the ones that give you two-ish moves) like one of tremors and reptiles are still insanely fun and have alot of promise. MK shouldve been a legacy fighter from 9 or 10 lmfao
1000%.
Yeah i always loved it. Long as the character retains their base kit, its a fun system
Agreed. No more teleport-less Raiden.
I desperately want the Cyber Ninjas back so this could be a great fix to this. Also I think every variation should have aptly appropriate customization. I really wanna see Cyber Smoke as his Deception/Armageddon counterpart again.
Cyber-Smoke was ahead of its (their?) time. Basically a hybrid between variations, kameos, and tag teams, long before those features were actually properly introduced.
I really appreciate this video.💪🏾💙
I'm a ninja nut, so yeah.
@@CynicalWarlock same
M0ar ninjas! (But I'm probably still going to main Reptile)
My man!💪💪💪💪
Mk needs the ninjas, monsters, and all those cool characters, it's part of its biggest appeal.
The reason MK11's roster was terrible (besides the whole cage family and Briggs family), was too many normal humans.
The coolest part of MK was that it wasn't like other fighting games with a bunch or samey looking human characters.
This one gets it. Every fighting game and their mother have some kind of martial artist, some kind of cop, secret agent, or special forces operative, and some kind of big muscle-bound brute. But only MK has ninjas and some of the more exotic characters. It's a chief part of its identity.
I cannot express how honored i am that you put my name in the most active section.
Thank you Pink Fluffy Warlock.
Read both the list *and* the channel description.. Impressive.
Course I put you there. Someone comments a lot, I write their names in.
Getting a tad harder to keep track of everyone, though. Used to be easy.
I see Sub-Zero, I press like. The more variations, the merrier.
Merriations.
That would be cool. Probably have a Zaterran one where its either Reptile Chameleon and Khamelon.
I think too with all these variations and the possibilities slip in kreate a kharacter
I like the way you think.
I am manifesting that an anime review from you will happen one day 🤞
Delusion must be a nice thing.
Honestly, I think they just need to start doing a legacy system so they can focus their development time on fine-tuning the core and adding more content. The whole completely tearing down the game, each generation and restarting from scratch, is proving to be a large waste of resources and time
My sentiments exactly.
As long as my boy Sub-Zero is on the roster (and is one of the better characters in the game) I’m happy.🙂❄️
There is no MK without Sub.
@@CynicalWarlock 😎
The ending had me dyinnnng of laughter lmao 😂😂😂😂
I definitely like your idea that variations should come back. But have you considered that maybe the idea for the rooster to include every character everyone wants is to not essential redo a Mortal Kombat game. Like it must be a lot of work for the developers to make a lot of characters then just throw it all away. Or is my idea missing some context?
Well there are 99 characters in the entire Mortal Kombat mythos, so they've already put themselves in a corner, in that regard. True, half of those are filler characters, but even 30 is a tough number to hit, for a fighting game, because of all the work that goes into a single character.
@@CynicalWarlock no yeah. It must be terrible to chose which characters should be in the game's and shouldn't. Especially on how the new game changes mechanics. If I remembered correctly you said they change the gameplay to much from game to game. Do you think they should stay more consistent for a longer time before changing or should they keep up what there doing?
@@Knight1029 Yeah, so my plan would be to do these games in a 'trilogy' format, let's say; or duology, at least, whereby you stay consistent with the main features and gameplay for 2-3 games, and *then* wipe the slate clean and start over.
And during that trilogy, you can keep characters and assets and just add on top of them; that way, you can get to a roster of 50-60 characters, in the 3rd game.
It's not unlike the Mass Effect trilogy. They kept a lot of the look, the graphics, the animations, and other assets and just built on top of them, while redesigning the gameplay where and when needed, like ME2 vs ME1.
@@CynicalWarlock now I remember. You did mention this in one of your videos but I completely forgot (I have a terrible memory). And yeah that does make sense. A series of games that are all similar to each other but still have the same core. It will change from game to game when needed but it will just expand and refine the core.
It is a pretty good idea.
i know this is a big ask, but i think it’s safe to say we’d like to see a video of what your perfect mortal kombat timeline would look like. both story wise, and gameplay wise. please support this people, i know im not the only one
I'm working my way up to that.
These shorter videos are meant to fill out the time till I can get the longer, more ambitious ones ready.
@@CynicalWarlock makes total sense, we’re tuned in regardless (hoping there’s one on jade)
I miss the variation system..offering more variety to the character. MK11 customization was fun too. Choosing your own moveset and names
Yes. So much more content and staying power.
I think kung Lao, kung jin and Liu kang could theoretically be variations of eachother.
Just give them all shaolin kung fu as a base,
Give Liu kang a jeet kun do stance and fire specials.
Lao access to his hat on certain to extend reach wind specials.
Jin his staff to extend reach even further, and bow specials.
Give them all unique fatalities and x-rays though. As an evolution.
Joaqui and jax, Muay Thai. Don’t be afraid of the variations models being small, incorporate that into the balancing.
Sonya, cassie and Johnny, same as the briggs. Kick boxing base, like Liu kang give Sonya back military stance.
Fujin and raiden. Moves that stun with electric can give him combo, whilst Fujin give push back. Don’t be afraid of the partial effects being different for variations.
Shao Kahn and kotal
Sindel might be difficult with existing characters… just make 2 new ones.
Li mei basically took Sonya’s play style so that pairing could work too. That opens up less obvious pairings. Like kitana and ashra both do wushu already! Mileena has arm blades now, her and baraka.
Some of these are pairable, but the idea is to lighten the workload, whereas putting Johnny as a Variation of Sonya/Cassie would definitely require him being built from the ground up, with normal attacks and all, so that's no longer a variation, it's a full-fledged character.
@@CynicalWarlock the normal attacks would be the same, just the special moves would be different. Johnny Sonya and Cassie all practice kick-boxing already.
@@parrisxsummers Either way, it's definitely something you'd need to test out.
Lord knows I’d love to see the variations come back. That was one of the best things in Mortal Kombat X for me.
You and me both.
I solemnly agree with everything that you said, the variation system was a really fun mechanic that made MKX/MKXL fun and enjoyable! Plus, it was the many games me and my dad played together (but he's in heaven now😭). BTW, why is Triborg called Triborg when he has *four* variations (which is an amalgamation of Cyrax, Sektor, Smoke, and Cyber Sub-Zero)?! Wouldn't that make him *QuadBorg*
Yes, he is Tri+1Borg.
Playing MK with your dad is about the most fun thing I can imagine. Glad you experienced that.
So what you're saying in simple terms is we need to bring back palette swaps. I am okay with this and fully agree.
Smart.
-Reptile, Khameleon and Chameleon (please give this man a more distinct name) all should share a slot, but the latter female one has expy moves from the MK2 female ninjas while the latter male one has expy moves from the MK2-3 male ninjas. Reptile's moveset should always be slightly reminiscent of Scorpion and Sub-Zero.
-Goro, Sheeva and Kintaro all should share a slot, with Goro being grappler, Sheeva being rushdown and Kintaro having fire moves (pressure?). The Stomp would be the only move they have in common.
-Sub and Noob should never be folded in, the solution is to have distinct slots for both Kuai (ninja, unmasked grandmaster, cyber?) and Bi Han (classic Sub-Zero, noob, noob-smoke?). Smoke's should be normal/revenant Enenra/cyber too. Frost is annoying; she does NOT deserve to be folded in a variation/premiere skin of either Kuai or Bi Han but I definitely don't want her cybered up again just to make her "stand out"...
-Kano should have premiere skins swapping him out with his flunkies Jarek and Hsu Hao.
-Kabal should have his default burn victim variation, an unburned undercover police one, and a Mavado one.
-Kobra stole Johnny's moves in Deception, so the former should get folded into the more popular latter. Same for Kira and Sonya. Kobra and Kira's movesets should have more "evil" slants than the characters they've been subsumed into.
-And of course, "Triborg" should be playable in every game to accommodate cyborg fetishists, even if "Triborg" as a character *does not need to be acknowledged as an actual entity within the lore;* for anyone fighting a cyber, if they notice that all of their normals are the same, they can just chalk that up to their Tekunin programming. And since Cyber Sub is folded into Kuai and Cyber Smoke is folded into Smoke, my pick for the third variation would be Hydro, finally made kanon.
The above suggestions would compress basically 23 characters into nine slots. Not bad for roster optimization, eh? It ought to go without saying that character dialogues change between variations; no default Revenant Kung Lao asking people, "how can I prove I'm not a revenant?" 💀💀💀😶 And of course, fatalities should change too.
I would also LOVE it if, say, Hornbuckle was finally playable with Liu Kang moves as a template but his special moves aren't Shaolin-like, Emerald was playable with Mileena's sai stance as a template but without biting, Pedro was playable with Stryker moves as a template but he gets to wear a sombrero, etc.
Solid pairings, overall, although people might take issue with the Zeros occupying 2 full slots of 3 variations each.
I would love for the very Asian system to come back. It was actually a fun way of using different play styles. And I think it would be a good way to bring back certain moves and everything. To me not everything Hass to be competitively viable to be fun, but I guess that’s me because I’m just more concerned about playing with my friends in the actual story of the franchise. Maybe this could be a way to spice up the story mode
I also forgot to add. There should be a good way to add characters who normally get in with variations systems. Just changing up their fighting style and maybe even they’re supers would be enough now I don’t know how fatalities would work if you had like let’s say, for instance, scorpion, and then a subzero preset or maybe one of each can have a fatality. But I would definitely like to see this implemented.
@@projesusantisatan3583you’re cooking with gas.💪🏾💙
@@projesusantisatan3583 You can give each variation one fatality, then release more, as DLC.
No, you make a great point. People dismiss the importance of the social aspect of these games far too easily. If you make a non-competitive mode addictively fun *and* sociable (play with your friends type of deal), your game will be damn-near immortal.
@@CynicalWarlock facts
If Shang Tsung has a Variantion, One of them should be a Boss Vatiantion with Goro's Punch Walk & Grab, Motaro's Kick, Kintaro's Jump Stump, Shao Kahn's Hammer, Shinnok's Skeleton Summon.
Which is very cool. Except a) that would imply that all those characters aren't in the game, and b) that becomes less Shang and more of an amalgamation character.
Still a cool idea, though.
@@CynicalWarlockTsung himself Started as an Amalgam Boss.
@@conradojavier7547 True.
Off topic imagin' a Mythology Sub-Zero remake with Shaolin Monks 3d platform kombat adventure with a mix of Ghost of Tsushima/Assassin's Creed parkour, stealth and assassination gameplay
🤯🤯🤯
Talk about a mouthful..
The variation system reminds me of the Groove system from capcom vs snk 2 nrs made good idea they could have added to mk1 along with kamelo system and finally add tag team
Variations, Kameos *and* Tag Teams?
Absolute insanity.
@@CynicalWarlock I was thinking all of three in a way but that kinda unrealistic especially with variations part
@@mistagoodvibesyt6333 Could happen if they build one game on top of the previous one, like I suggested.
I think this roster was great special forces fan had their time
You can fit them in too.
He speaks of variations while all I wanted during my very short (thats umm, not what she said either, I swear) MK career was not sucking at playing Scorpion...
It's like playing piano. All it takes is a little practice.
@@CynicalWarlock yeah, you're right, only several years to git gud
MICHAEL SCOTT REFERENCE
Street Fighter had a Similar Gimmick, expect you can only change their Finishers(or Critical Arts).
Sounds a lot tamer than what I'm proposing.
No to variations , no to cameos.
You're no fun..
You know its a good day when Cynical Warlock posts
It would be interesting but I think the variations in MK11 did things right. Allowing you to pick certain abilities that felt right to use.
Personally, I think MK11 handled variations pretty bad. Only 2 to start with, with some pretty uninspired loadouts, then 3, then (by the time the game was all but dead), finally allowed for custom loadouts, as was the original intention, before they backed out of it.
But custom move sets and variations are 2 different design choices, that don't have much in common.
3:58 Re: least balanced is most fun, I would argue that balance can't take a back seat in all aspects if the game is to remain fun. Competitive balance is a difficult task, and very rarely will anyone ever get it perfectly, but even an imbalanced game can remain *fair*. MK9, as you mentioned, has tons of broken stuff but is still fair. While Kabal is rightly regarded as the best character in that game, he doesn't invalidate the entirety of the remaining playable cast. MKXL has a noticeable imbalance that often does not seem fair at a glance, especially at a competitive level, because Crystalline Tremor exists to serve as the meta defining bar or filter to which other kombatants must measure up to; the Top 5 characters must all either have a clear and reliable answer to Crystalline Tremor's armor buff and flash parries, or *be* Crystalline Tremor. A bit more digging shows that there are in fact a handful of characters that can beat him, but he still invalidates a wide swath of the game's roster (especially in competitive settings). MK11 lacks this issue by making every kombatant viable, but it is far more difficult for players and spectators to have fun because it went to that opposite extreme on the spectrum. It played things *too safe* (most of the time; let's not get into the Aftermath launch's iteration of the Sheeva stomp), and frequently went out of its way to nerf or patch out things that might skew roster validity. In some cases, MK11's approach may have backfired; see Rain and Mileena, widely regarded to be the poorest performers among the roster despite each playing solid with regards to MK11's strike/throw meta.
Great analysis and a fair recounting of MK competitive history.
I would like to impress upon you the idea that Kabal and Tremor are more similar than one may think. They both defined the metas of their respective games, they both had matchups that could not fight them, and they were both discovered late in the games' life cycle. People initially ignored Kabal, until guys like Reo picked him up and turned him into a force of nature.
And to add to that last point, games are not expected to be balanced from the start and don't need to be, because players are just figuring shit out; what's important is staying just one step ahead in the arms race between the devs trying to balance the game and the players tryna unbalance the game.
All in all, I totally agree with you: balance is definitely not to be ignored completely and I don't wanna make it sound like it should. Also that MK9 was, overall, a good.. sigh.. balance.. between strictness and looseness, on that front. But also, to my original point, balance isn't a static target that needs to be pinpointed with needle-level accuracy, but a dynamic state or range that you need to stay in.. or rather, make sure you don't fall out of.
@@CynicalWarlock indeed. Also, other similarities between Kabal and Tremor include their allegiance to Kano's Black Dragon and their low projectiles (Kabal had a buzzsaw, Tremor had the "pizza cutter", wheels that traveled along the ground). Lastly, Tremor was discovered relatively late in the game's life cycle only due to his scheduled release being so much further behind the likes of other DLC kombatants in MKX. Meanwhile, Kabal was almost always strong in every installment he showed up in; the "training wheels" that were MK11's early "tournament variation" requirements for ranked play didn't stop people from discovering him so much as it held him back from the spotlight until NRS decided it was time to take the "training wheels" off. He was already a great character, but (Air) Slight Gas made Kabal an absolute menace.
Yeah after mk1 variations were the way to switch it up. The thing is we are talking about NRS here. The most woke game developers in America. 2015 NRS could but 2024 NRS could never 😂
"The most woke game developers in America" - *so* ironic, considering the kind of games they develop.
@@CynicalWarlock seriously it's the irony of it all for me
Respectfully…no. I just don’t really care for it. I like when characters have what they have and that’s it. There’s nothing like variations that changes the whole character. It’s just the character as a fully made package and that is it. In MK1, you have kameos to change your characters play style but in the end the fighter remains the same. I like that.
Ok.
Hey Warlock what do you think about all these guest characters in Mortal Kombat?
Personally, I'd like to see less of them, and more MK characters, and probably a lot of other fans feel this way. Would help with this roster problem a lot.
That said, I imagine the guest characters sell the best. Plenty of people who don't even play fighting games might buy the game and DLC just to be able smash things as Homelander.
It really depends on the numbers. If the guest characters sell an inordinately better than the rest, you gotta keep em in. If not, or if they're just slightly better, then more MK characters would improve sales and strengthen the community, by a pretty large amount.
@@CynicalWarlock I agree. It was an interesting feature added in Mk9 Mkx and I think MK11 did it best…Now I’m tired of it. I miss having an actual Mortal Kombat game..and with MK1 we’re about to have 2 supermen in the same game
I voted for "Non-ninjas". Damn, i hate democracy.
Another great video dude! Keep the good work🎉
Yeah, nothin like the good ol' days of totalitarianism.
Don't feel blue about it - the whole reason for implementing this is so you could have more non-ninjas on the roster. And they'd actually each have 3 variations too, unlike the palette-swappers.
Guys, she said ALL of this... What should i do?
Question her gender.
@@CynicalWarlock 😭😭
I think mk variations should return but instead they should be for different versions of the characters
For example for kung Lao one of his variations could be the great kung Lao
For Liu kang you can have his Firegod moveset as a variation
Scorpion, have one as a human, a specter, and kuai liang
Subzero, have noob saibot, bi Han, and kuai liang
I also think that for some character variations they should do what mk deception did for noob smoke and bring in other types of duos. Like for example make the deadly alliance, or make scorpion and quan chi, make the shaolin monks a duo type variation
These would make variations so cool, and they could do what they did for mkx and make them serve different gameplay needs as well
Agree with everything, minus Scorpion's Kuai Liang variation; that shit's confusing as fuck.
And yeah, other Noob-Smoke-type pairings could include Goro & Kintaro, or Drahmin and Moloch.
Seeing "Bi-Han" or "Hanzo Hasashi" in the character selection screen rather than "Sub-Zero" and "Scorpion" may actually be a welcome change.
On the other hand, as far as I know, Tremor is a member of the Black Dragon while Rain and Ermac were originally generals is Shao-Khan's army, which makes it hard to mash them together.
It also makes me think if you can mash Sonya, Cassie and Jaquie together into one character with this way of thinking. All three are members of the Special Ops so no real reason they should use different normals, is there?
Anyway, the basic gist of what you're saying is to reduce development time by reducing the amount of normal attack variation in favor of special move variation. This is pretty much how you get games like Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3, which features every single Ninja they had up to that point in time, if I remember correctly. There are still common things to every character in new MK games, though. Every character still has an uppercut and a sweep... And crouching pokes. But we don't want to reduce new MKs to the level of MK3, where everyone has the same normals with the exception of their 3 - 5 combo strings that only activate within throwing range.
There's an interesting thought here, but it's hardly a solution to the game's problems.
Yes, lore-wise, Tremor wouldn't fit that specific pairing, although you could work it in the story mode, if you really wanted to.
Sonya/Cassie/Jacquie is a great idea. Someone else suggested the Cage family.
I consider uppercuts, sweeps, pokes and the like to be fake diversity, for the most part. They all come down to the same thing, they serve the same universal functions for each character, and the more unique to each character you try to make them, the more you risk breeding gameplay imbalances, for no reason, like Liu Kang's down+3, in MKX, that was +3 on block, for some reason. Most of the actual variety, in fact, comes from a few normals, strings, and the special moves, so that's what they should focus on, in my opinion.
At the end of the day, it's a question of would you rather have all these characters in the game, even if they're not 100% distinct from every other character in the roster (pretty big shadow on the wall to chase, to begin with), or have to disappoint 2/3 of your fanbase 2/3 of the time.
@@CynicalWarlock I think the big issue here is when you compare it to the variation system.
If you bunch up lore-unrelated characters together in the character select screen, people will feel like they don't get any of the grouped characters, but some weird new amalgamation of "functions" (MVCI much?). Which is kind of what Triborg is. There are the movesets of Sektor, Cyrax, Smoke and Cyber Sub-Zero, but they belong to a new entity lore-wise. This only works because Triborg is a robot created from the data on the Cyber Lin Kuei servers.
The other option is to separate characters on the select screen but give them identical normals. That may cause players to feel cheated. I mean, how did you feel the first time you played Captain Falcon Vs. Ganondorf or Xianghua Vs. Hwang? Sure, there are differences, but they feel minor.
Just look at Street Fighter. Ryu and Ken used to be completely identical. Now, in SF6, there is almost no comparing the two.
It makes me feel that giving characters the same normals would be like taking a step back... into the 90's.
@@Shining4Dawn It definitely would feel like a step back, and it's asking players to choose the lesser evil: less (but better) characters, or more (but same-y) characters?
4thsnake had the same idea
Devious minds think alike.
Nrs need to hire you like now
That would be their whole budget.
So they call him "Triborg" despite the fact he is four robots? 🤔
My feelings are... if Tekken can squeeze the fucking *bears* into every game, they can give us our ninjas (they just choose not to...) The variation system should absolutely return though, MKX has greater longevity because of it and, best of all, it gave you 3 chances to not suck at playing your favourite character!
1000%.
Reads title
Me :yeeeeeeeesssssssssss
🤜🤛
I think that we're done with the ninjas and it's pretty saturated with them so I propose we move on from ninjas and focus on more mythological creatures and designing new original creatures.
Curious which direction you'd take, specifically.
I never actually played MKX, that game came out when I was in my broke college phase. Which I still am lol, but I got some backup money this time.
Shame though 😕 I think I missed out. I know the story was booty cheeks (and not the fun kind) but I heard the gameplay was incredibly fun because of the variations.
I'd be up for it, yea. Why not?
I've probably played more hours of MKX than all the other MK games combined.
It can seem a bit intimidating, at first, but the high skill ceiling, the fluid, dynamic action, the combo possibilities, the countless fighter archetypes and hybrids, and the high level of player expression, it's unlike any other MK game or fighting game, in general.
You have to play it to fully understand.
So in short, bring in the Khamelons? 😂😂😂
Fuck yes.
If I have to pick a version of a character that I like to access a certain move or 2, that’s not only a terrible idea, but outdated. Look, MKX was a cool attempt at this idea, MK11 was needlessly insane, and MK1 ditched it. However, I think variations should completely change the character you play almost to a T, and I want it to be like how it was in the MIDWAY games, but with a modern twist, that’s how you make a perfect modern variation system work for me. Does it sound busted? Sure, but damage scaling should be taken into account in precaution of making a busted mechanic while still making it fun.
If variations completely change the character you're playing to a T, they're no longer variations, they're different characters, which defeats the purpose of trying to condense the workload. You wind up back at square one, where you can't fit all the characters that people want.
It's not just Triborg's specials that varied, but some of the normals and frame data, as well. More to the point, Sektor had a completely different gameplan compared to Smoke, compared to Cyrax, compared to Cyber Sub.
All for the price of changing "a certain move or 2".
Mortal Kombat should be renamed Ninja Kombat and have the entire roster be just ninjas. Fuck the haters. Bring all three Sub-Zeros AND Frost back. As separate characters! Sonya? Jax? Never heard of em.
You sound like a younger me.
But to your point, I've done polls on this, and most people prefer ninjas, so the ones complaining about too many ninjas in the game seem to be a very vocal minority.
I am elmer the one-eyed fork lift operator
You should've been in M1K, man.
I feel like if Variations ever make a return, they should include all but three male ninjas, and have Chameleon as DLC, with his variations being those characters. Although, to keep the whole "has the powers of all ninjas" gimmick, his normal moves would incorporate their powers (example, one of his combo strings would incorporate Sub-Zero's ice as an ender)
Yeah, that's probably the most feasible way to do it. It's funny cause they could've done that in MK11, but instead of Chameleon, they gave the multi-ninja fighting style to Shang, for some reason.
NRS should figure out what works for MK and stick with that going forward. Stop changing the game with every new release.
Agreed. Experimentation is very valuable, and I always admired Midway/NRS for it, but it's an incomplete process if you don't then draw the line and take home some lessons from it.
W video
i really liked mk11s custom moves but i found they just gave too much freedom as you could play the same character with several different moves whether with variations you only need to remember 3 versions of the character rather than if the second variation had (insert move here) or not
Custom moves are great for social and single player content, but it's impossible to properly balance competitively.
@@CynicalWarlock yeah, overall variations are much better
at this point I do not care what they do to "fix" MK1 as long as I get more than just "THE-ONE-COMBO"-gameplan for each character. An assist-system won't save your game but a healthy gameplay loop does.
Okay, let's give it a try here:
1st: Variation: Changes specials, only in character menu
2nd: Kombat Style (like in Deception): changes normals -> new natural combos!, swappable mid-combat
3rd: Kameo: changable during matches (like right now)
done.
let's keep the number of Variation at 3 and reduce Kombat Style to 2. Kameos are numerous anyway.
there you go with 1 character but 6 ways + Kameos to play him/her!
We all thought the experimentation with Kameos is gonna be wild like in the Marvel Super Heroes by Capcom day (which I was not there) but it wasn't.
MK1 is very poorly designed. A good game's concept should not fit onto one single DINA4 page but MK1's does which makes you wonder: WHERE DID ALL THE MK11 AND WB MONEY GO?!
MK 1 is not per se a bad game but it is BY FUCKING FAR for having the most budget out of the big three PLUS having a multi billion dollar company globally present on their side pretty much an embarassing insult to the franchise
Glad to see someone is gameplay-savvy enough to understand this. Lotta people say "MK1's gameplay is fine", and I'm sitting here pulling my ears out, in frustration. MKX offered so much in terms of gameplay/playstyle diversity - heck I just watched some Dualist Liu Kang gameplay today, showcasing some setups and combos I didn't even know was possible with that character; and I've played a thousand hours of MKX.
MK11 and MK12 are very pretty-looking, but some of the most auto-pilot fighting games I've ever seen.
Which is a pity, cause had they iterated on MKX, instead of dumbing shit down, we could've been looking at a very different series, right now.
Agree with most of your suggestions. Lotta people in the comments want fighting styles to return, actually. And yeah, 2 are enough - the weapon fighting style is.. it doesn't work, with the current design, and was kinda silly to begin with.
@@CynicalWarlock i almost think that's the reason MK1 doesn't have a "Modern" or "Special Style"-mode. You have exactly 1 combo route per character and an auto-pilot would just do what you are supposed to do the next 4 years until the next game.
So you’re telling me Nrs made mkx n really released mk1😢
Yes. They really did.
Hell no triborg is a shit ass character the cyborgs didn’t even have their own fight style or fatality he’s a sad ass character i rather keep it cyrax and sektor the true cybers
Ideally, yes. But if it's a choice between Triborg or no cyborgs at all...
Mk aside if u think Naruto is gay. Your father is Noob Saibot
Dad?
The variation system still exists, it just in disguised as “kameos” every kameo switches up the strength and weakness, combos and play style of any character, just like the variation system
Yes, Kameos are the red-headed stepchild of Variations. Elegant, efficient, varied, simplified, slightly shallower, dull, and not widely appreciated.
I don't care if I'm the only one who feels this way, but I will NOT back down, I will NOT apologize, and I will NEVER stop wanting MK to trash all these stupid boring non-ninja characters and just give me the game I've wanted since I was a kid: ONLY the ninjas and ALL the ninjas.
I'm tired of having to pretend like I give a shit about Liu Kang, man, you can't drop palette swapped magical ninjas on a 90's kid and think that's not going to leave an impression. I'm in my 30's and I'm still playing this crap *specifically* and *EXCLUSIVELY* because of the ninjas. I never play non-ninjas and I never will. Gimme the fuckin' ninjas or throw your game in the trash because without the ninjas MK is a nothing burger and it BELONGS there.
...except Raiden, Raiden's actually really cool. But that's it, no other non-ninjas.
Everyone plays the "they're just palette swaps" card, which is straight up gaslighting, at this point. They all have their own moves, look and backstories.
And there's nothing more mysterious and compelling than a masked man with superpowers.
Who's she💀😂 but the variation system was very fun if you loved a character so much you could learn all three of them which is a lot of content not to mention the fact that that's just one character imagine you use 3 that's 9 different characters that's why mkx is the goat
I mean they're still discovering variations today, that's how much content was packed into that game.
You don't wanna know who she is, trust me.
@@CynicalWarlock yeah they should just release mkx2 😂😂
Great video (except the Jesus joke).. also MK probably needs to "un-ninja" a few characters like Rain, Tremor, etc
You mean the atheist joke?
@@CynicalWarlock yes, technically
Disagree. The variation system made characters feel incomplete. Was not a fan at all
To reiterate the point of the video, you would not use variations like that, anymore. Sub-Zero felt incomplete without his ice clone, but Cyrax, Sektor and Smoke all felt like complete characters, even if they were each just one variation.
I'm advocating for that second use case.
Sorry but no? It was very fun in MKX but not in Injustice 2 and especially in MK11, so no it shouldn’t return
Coincidentally, those latter 2 games fucked up the system.
Nice wish... but... the Mortal Kombat we all once knew? Is dead.
[dramatic music]
Mdr Naruto 🤣
they are trying to copy the bethesda strat, do less and have moders fix/add to your game
It's becoming the norm.
Lame this comment is lame