THE STORM (Part 1) | Sailing Wisdom Ep 61
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
- We are hove to for 3 days in a storm that only grows worse before serious damage makes it imperative that we attempt to seek safe harbor.
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Takes guts to get out there. You guys are awesome!
That was a nail biter of a video! I felt the fear myself! YIKES! Gotta take the good with the bad, good job you two.....steady on!
Thanks for sharing. Hope you all won't have to go through that again.
Been 3 years and it’s all been worth it :)
Heaving to is an invaluable skill, good on you for being safe and promoting sound seamanship. Heaving to is easier on the crew and the rig. You're typically safer at sea then you would be if you were close to shore. As you indicated, being hove-to is relatively more comfortable than actively sailing during high winds and surging seas but it's still not a sunny calm day. Points to you for showing that realistically.
When you have a large following sea and high winds as you mentioned, a Jordan Series Drogue could be helpful in reducing the chance of pitch-poling and make the ride a bit more comfortable and easier on the boat. Have you considered adding a series drogue?
Thanks!
I looked into them but our budget only allowed for one drag device so we went with a parachute sea anchor.
Karl Freifrick, that reference you referred to, and the wave tank study regarding capsize at wave heights of 30% of boat lengths use the term “ breaking waves”. Breaking waves are the type of wave surf - boarders love . They usually occur only at the beach, and some wind against tide situations.
Most waves are not breaking waves.
I just subscribed to your site and have viewed 4 of your videos. With your knowledge, I'm surprised that you missed the basic of IRPCS Colregs. That is Rule #5, Lookout. "Every vessel shall AT ALL TIMES maintain a proper look-out by SIGHT AND HEARING as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make A FULL APPRAISAL of the situation and of the risk of collision."
It's nice to be dry and warm. It's better to arrive safe. Now you have been doing videos for years and I haven't looked at all of them. You have arrived safely. I know, Ocean is big and you are small. but your just lucky....
We have learned a lot since we first started and now looking back at when we first started we would have done a lot differently.
Thanks for subscribing and following along 😉
Love the outboard sofa!
The throne! We miss it so.
The Herbster really pulled that one off. I guess you made it close enough to land to get a tow boat. Hmmmm....wowzers I knew that wasn't a small storm. I loved the drums in the soundtrack...very dramatic.
I think the wave height was only a quarter of what you stated, if you had 30 foot waves beam on you would know about it!
We did know about it. The wave heights were up to our spreaders
I believe you re 30 ft waves. The camera does not capture them, and I saw them many times when I worked on the Grand Banks....
Just ignore those armchair sailors.👍❤️
Great rough weather sailing video. I worked on a boat for a few years and though I remember the good (romantic) stuff, there was plenty about it that was hell on earth.
Yeah, we try and avoid those situations as much as we can, but from time to time we get caught in them.
Wow, that's intense.
You captured good footage during the storm. Good decision to reach for a safe harbour.👍
+Norman Boyes thank you!
Try one earplug for seasickness. Tricks your brain into thinking your equilibrium is messed up, and then compensates for it.
I can't wait to see how your forestay was damaged and how you fix it.
It’s in the next episodes! We made it more robust so that we wouldn’t have this issue again!
YOu two have great courage.......stay the course and better days are ahead. I am guessing you learned a lot. Good Sailing
Have you tried the one earplug method to stave off sea sickness?
I think I remember / recognize a couple of those waves! they are still around, just shifted up the seaboard a ways!
One of the channels pointed out recently that a cruiser is sailing their home and wants it to be comfortable and lower the maintenance. I guess I was more a casual adrenaline junkie and less a real sailor...
Sailing...you`ve got to love it!:))
Stabilize the best you can on the heel gauge so we can see both it and the horizon over the bow. Video never is able to show us what it is like out there. Glad you two are safe. May sound a bit odd, but I would have loved to be there.
+SenatorPerry and thank you for the tip! It would have been nice to have had someone else to talk to
Just visiting from the future. Hi there
I would suggest a rod forestay if you are hanking a jib on. Forestay gets a lot more working action with a sail on it than shrouds. Fiber does not handle the wearing action well.
Rod rigging is plagued with impromptu and unannounced separation of the heads leading to a total rig failure. I personally avoid them on my own boat.
Fiber and wire headstays do take a beating from the hanks, but with the appropriate preventative measures, these problems can be mitigated.
We have soft hanks to better distribute the force over more area and a chafe sleeve over the entire stay. In high wear areas, such as the head and tack, we have an additional layer of sacrificial coverings.
So what I am hearing is that you guys are still working on your seamanship & forecasting weather better. Does your onboard electronics have the capability to receive weather data from a service? You will get better at long range forecasting. It also sounds like you need more battery for your electric motor!
+buffettfanman our radio and sat phone both give us weather updates, but the Sat phone said that we were in a "gentle breeze" of 15 knots. So yeah...and for the motor, we got a generator! Excited to try it :)
Rigging Doctor careful make sure the cabin is well ventilated and you guys get a Carbon Monoxide sensor from a hardware store.
Rigging Doctor Do you have like an iPad? So you can see the highs and lows and which way they are moving? Or are you using a iPhone 6 something?
We have iPads, and iPhone 6 and SE.
Hi there sailors I would not park where you are at the seas mercy.I would continue to sail sorta to windward as close as my required course and my strength would allow to allow the approaching grumpy weather to pass as quickly as possible .this way happiness should return sooner than slopping along with the travelling front. A fully reefed and organised sailing boat can still continue to proceed even in very difficult conditions and remain under control. Happy sailing.
We have learned a lot since then!
Thanks for sharing real experiences. It seems very rare to show the bad times on RUclips. Question: can we assume the conditions were (far?) beyond the ability of the autopilot to function? Hove to in the face of the storm was very wise.
+Loanword Eggcorn according to the manufacturer, the harder it blows, the better it works. People use them to keep sailing through horrible weather and the Monitor does fine.
You are supposed to swap out the air blade from the big one to the smaller one when winds are over 40 knots, which makes me think it would have been fine in these conditions.
The reason we didn't set it up to sail us back is a bolt sheared in it from a boarding wave, rendering the unit inoperable.
When we made it back, I called the manufacturer and spoke directly with the owner of the company who walked me through setting everything back up and running.
Why not use it to sail through the storm and make some headway then? Could sail reefed until things got really bad, then heave to.
We were getting close to the Gulf Stream and didn't want to cross it during a storm. Our plan was to heave to and then cross it right after. We actually stopped sailing the day before the storm to keep from getting caught up in the current with the storm.
Our concern was we would cross the stream and then get blown back into it on the other side if the storm got really bad and we have to.
In hindsight, we should have sailed on, not crossed the Gulf Stream and made our way into the Outer Banks for safe harbor. At the time, this was just going to be a storm that would pass and we would be on our way, cross the Gulf Stream in good weather, and then make our way south to the Bahamas. Turns out it was much more powerful than predicted.
Thanks. Makes sense not wanting to get caught in the Gulf Stream during the storm. Hindsight is always 20/20, but I like your planning.
Me too. The problem with the anchor is something you couldn't foresee.
Hi, Monday morning armchair quarterback here...Could you sail until you are exhausted then hove to, sleep, rinse and repeat as necessary to get to a safe harbor?
+Tim K yes, but our destination was the Bahamas which were about 570 miles away at that point. We were trying to stay away from land since this part of the Outer Banks is known as "The Graveyard of the Atlantic" thanks to all the shipwrecks they have.
We actually adjusted our course to be further from land to minimize the risk of drifting ashore in the storm and then hove to. We were planning on crossing the Gulf Stream right after the storm and shooting south but all that changed when our headstay got severely damaged.
Oddly enough, the most dangerous thing during a storm is the proximity to land. The boat will float through the storm, as long as you have enough water to float in.
Glad you guys are ok now. Hope SV Wisdom is repaired quickly and that you are on your way as soon as it is safe to do so.
Most people don't recognize how enormous waves are. The camera can't catch. but I know. We're a yachtie.
When the chop peak is 30m high and the swell troughs are 60m down, grats that's the Southern Ocean.
For sea sickness you want ginger ale Flat or buy ginger root and chip off small chunks or half cup hot water soak a tea bag in it and sip!
+buffettfanman thanks, we will give that a try! We see ginger root for sale in most markets, we will pick some up.
What caused the damage tot he headstay?
The anchor flew out of the anchor roller and chafed away on the headstay for about 3 days straight. Now we have a much better method of securing the anchor so that it can’t fly out like that and cause so much damage.
Ist there a point where it is better to turn and run with the storm? or even across the storm maybe to head for shelter?
+Graeme Henderson yes, there is. The problem with running with a storm is you will move with it and be under storm conditions for longer than if you drifted slowly while hove to. So if you have nowhere to go, heaving to is the best choice.
If a safe harbor is less than a day away (say 8-10 hours) then that is a good time to start sailing and get yourself to safety. If your destination is further away than that, you will become exhausted before you reach it and may bring trouble onto yourself.
8 hours at the helm is miserable and hard. When we started sailing for shore, we were 50 miles out and I was at the helm for 25 hours. It was not fun and I wasn't thinking clearly by the end of it.
Thanks Herbie it sounds to me like you did everything right according to the information you had at a hand at the time. From what I understand fatigue is the real killer in survival situations - reducing your ability to think clearly and make sound decisions. Be at peace. Graeme
+Graeme Henderson Thanks :)
Great video! You are much braver than we are! I'm not comfortable with 4 foot seas and would have been terrified in that storm.
Although I get that waves look smaller with a short lens, you are certainly overhyping things. Video shows a little spray getting in the cockpit = which you say is a "massive breaking wave into the cockpit". Yeah, no.
True, we were still green and this was the worst we had seen. It scared the crap out of us then but it was nothing compared to what we would encounter when we sailed in the Mediterranean!
Great video. Glad I found you. Just subbed! THANKS!
+onthebeaches1 thanks! Many adventures to come :)
I would have thought as a "Rigging Doctor" that you would have spare forestay ready.
I have only sailed through a couple of storms and felt it better to take an active strategy - but of course that was with fit crew. Do you have a series drogue for when things really turn to worms?
+Lotophagi I actually do carry a spare (I have an entire spare standing rigging in a locker since it weighs next to nothing and can be stowed easily) but I needed calmer weather to swap it out. At the time, the bow was getting washed with each wave as it would dip just an inch under the surface each time. I thought about waiting for the weather to improve but then I saw that a more powerful storm was coming behind it.
My concern was that the time it would take to swap and tube the headstay could better be used getting to safety where I could carry out the repairs in tranquility.
We don't have a series drogue (but they do look like a cool concept), instead we have a sea anchor.
Our protocol for heaving to is:
Winds 0-30 knots: staysail and trysail
Winds 30-50 knots: trysail
Winds 50+ knots: trysail and sea anchor
Sorry I wasn't criticizing - just curious. I meant a permanently rigged second forestay on a Highfield lever maybe. Great for having two foresails when running. But then I realized that you have a cutter so already have an an inner forestay. Surely that would keep the mast up with reefed main and staysail?
+Lotophagi not taken that way. I was actually pretty frustrated at the time because I had all the parts, I just didn't have the time or conditions to do it. If we were further out to sea I would have done it anyway because there were no other options.
The inner forestay might be able to hold it up, but it doesn't have the sturdiest of attachments. It is only attached to the deck, no chainplate to the frames, keel, or stem like the other stays. The deck is almost 3 inches thick, but I still wouldn't want to trust my entire rig to just a few through bolts.
For a good portion, we did sail under double reefed main and staysail, keeping the loads on the lower set of shrouds and stays, while the mangled headstay was still present and holding the mast forward. I just wouldn't fly the jib to keep the headstay from breaking completely and putting all the load on the inner forestay.
When running in the ocean, we do set the jib on one side and the staysail on the other, lots of leehelm and no worries about jibes:)
Just can't trust mother nature to do what the modles say she'll do. I hope you guys are OK, and over the rough experience.
Until you out there on the sea and weather it's only theory, when your out in it, it' on the job training. The only way to become an experienced sailor it to get out there and sail.
When you say your head stay was damaged, can you be more specific? Did you notice chafing or something? You are 100% Dyneema correct, or do I have that wrong? Now that you are no longer bobbing around the Bay, how is Mattie (sp?) liking the sailing thing?? Stay safe!
+Adventures of Gypsy Soul the headstay was pretty badly chafed through because the anchor broke free and rubbed against it a lot. You're right! We are 100% Dyneema. I (Maddie) am having mixed feelings. The first few days were wonderful! The storm wasn't fun, but it was a learning experience for sure. I'm excited about what lies ahead for sure :)
Suggest you learn to heave to on just your main. Calmer, less stress on your rigging, and your bOat rides the waves, rather than bucks then.
In less horrible winds we heave to with the two sails. In winds over 60 knots, we heave to with just the trysail.
I saw no storm. Storm is force 10. I've been in one. Monstrous 20 -30 ft waves, and spindrift like horizontal snow. From what I saw in this vid, it was no more than force 5, a strong breeze, - not even Gale (Gale = Force 7, lots of white water everywhere). How does yr forestay (8mm wire?) get damaged by a strong breeze ??
This was filmed with a GoPro which makes it look calmer than it is and we only ventured outside to film when it calmed down.
To see some good looking waves check out the videos from our last Atlantic crossing 👍
@@RiggingDoctor Yr vid title was, 'The Storm.'
Are u sailors - or wot ?? 'Storm' is force 10 - that's 30 - 40 ft waves, wind roaring so loud u can't hear anything else, and flying spindrift.
No - I don't want to look at other vids to know what a storm is like - I've been in one. The wind in yr vid is exceptionally manageable - it's not even a Gale (force 7). According to what I see, it's force 5, and the sea-state is excellent - perfect conditions for a good sailing.
And u still don't say how these conditions damaged your forestay, which, I assume, is 8mm stainless wire ?
I respect anyone who can sail a boat deep sea - but I'm not impressed with bullshit.
These were 40 knot winds and 30 foot waves the height of our spreaders. It was a storm. We’ve been sailing full time for a long time. If you’d like proof of the conditions, we provided a link in the comments to the online weather charts when this was filmed 5 years ago. We know what a storm is, thanks. We don’t need you on our channel. Please move along
@@RiggingDoctor I can only go by the video u posted. Storm 10 gives monstrous waves, and huge banks of tumbling water that give u the feeling of being inside a washing machine. U would also hv a raging wind, and spindrift flying all over the sea like a snowstorm. I was in a 10 one for two days, in a much bigger boat than yours, and occasionaly waves broke right over our decks and rushed us sideways down into the trough far below. In your video I don't see your decks even getting wet.
If, however, u were in gale force 7, yr video would show a very excited sea with big white horses everywhere. But it shows neither of those conditions - it shows u perfectly able to talk, no wind noise, and a bumpy sea with only occasional white horses. That's what your video shows. It's force 5.
Next - u say this perfectly ordinary and average sea somehow damaged your wire forestay. How ?
Giant waves caused the anchor to pop free and chafe against the SYNTHETIC forestay. I will say it again because either you can’t read or refuse to accept the fact that we did not film during the worst part of this storm and the part we did film looks much less impressive than it actually was because that is what a GoPro does.
Hell we had 30 ft seas sailing back from Fiji to. New Zealand for 9 days and breaking tops Your in good seas , it’s going to be like that most of the time the boat will handle more than the crew and sailed right never complains as long as it well maintained , so all the crew has to do is keep it tidy and shipshape keep going like these vids thanks
46 feet I don't think so. I'm pretty sure you would see 46 foot waves on any camera. 20 to 30 ft high is hard to believe. But I'm not there. Poor Maddie, I hope you feel better. Yes, your blessed with that heater. Love your videos. Keep them coming.
The waves in the ocean are really spread out so they don’t show on camera. In the Mediterranean, the waves were only 12 feet tall but so close together that they looked massive on camera!
Hove to, not heave to.
What a couple of drama queens. Your wind and wave details were way out of reality. We sail in weather worse than this all the time. You shouldn't be out there.
The gopro makes the waves look flat. You should check out the videos from our last transatlantic passage, we upgraded our cameras and it is much better at capturing the height!
This gale was pretty bad, but we were also very green. Five years later we have crossed the Atlantic twice (the second time without using electronic navigation) and I still would have considered those conditions rather rough.
sounds if you have never been in any sort of rough conditions,, to revert to hand steering ,, is at the bottom of the list and never get to this ,, when as you saw ,, you are sailing single handed ,, the conditions you describe are not rough ,, but normal,
I see many items on your vessel that shows your inexperience,, as for your electric motor ,, stick to your coastal stuff.
You will have to tidy your act up.
from Kiwi solo sailor.
We just crossed the Atlantic with our electric motor.
teespring.com/armchair-sailor#pid=389&cid=100019&sid=front
try one ear plug for sea sickness .....
Never heard of that one. Thanks for the tip!
@@BarefootSailingAdventures Let me know if it works some swear by it...safe travels.
@@BarefootSailingAdventures - It apparently needs to be deeply embedded into the ear canal.. just in the outer ear won't cut it. Roll it as thin as possible to get it in deep.
Continuing my diatribe about the importance of knowing the difference between lying abeam and having the boat hove to, I offer the following:
In “Heavy Weather Sailing” the fourth edition, it talks about tank testing that proved the following about lying abeam:
A wave the height of 30% of boat length i.e. 9 feet in the case of a 30 foot boat will sometime overturn the boat.
A wave height of 60% of boat length i.e. 18 feet high will almost always overturn any boat lying abeam of that wave.
During the 1979 Fastnet Race disaster
306 boats participated
5 were sunk. 15 sailors died.
158 adapted storm tactics
86 lay abeam
46 ran before the wind under bare poles or towed warps.
26 hove to
At least 100 suffered knockdowns, 77 of those boats rolled over (turtled) at least once or flipped upside down.
NONE of the boats that hove to suffered any great damage.
As other contributors have pointed out, none of the wave action was as you perceived it. Take comfort in that.
Karl Friedrich see my commentary on Breaking waves, wave height vs. Capsize....
where is your hammocks. not they circumvent rolling sickness.
They do not
I am willing to bet they came up with the genius idea to get an electric motor is the reason the clowns are stuck out. Take ya beatings like a champ!
We crossed an ocean with that genius electric motor
Missing that Diesel engine?
+buffettfanman not really, our old diesel motor didn't have the power to motor against these conditions either.
Rigging Doctor Didn’t have the power but would run longer than the batteries would have lasted.
+buffettfanman in that regard, there is no contest :)
And the down side is how dirty they are! Does your charging system have a shut off feature so that one battery doesn’t get over charged? I had one blow up on my boat almost in my face.
+buffettfanman it does not. The bank is set up in series, making 48 volts. I do check the charges in them every few months and each battery is very close in charge to the others. The charger simply pours in 14 amps at 48 volts. The charger does taper down and then float the batteries. The solar panels also have a charge controller to avoid overcharging.
I hope I never have to deal with an out of sync and over charged battery in the bank!
Interesting video. To my mind, it might have been better to sail out of there. Espesially since the distance between waves was large. I would hove to only to rest up a bit, then sail on again to get out of the storm. I find actively sailing is always the more stable situation.
Knowing then what we know now, we would never have gone out at that time in the first place!
Yes, it is better to actively sail out of a storm. Even better to avoid it completely! This storm was 700 miles across and moving fast. We should have not gone offshore (and then stayed close to shore) at that time of year.
in 30 foot waves you should fear for your life
They said they had a period of 30 ft waves, and came thru them unscathed.... It depends
good film. but the sea was never that bad.
Thanks, we didn't go outside to film when the waves were crashing over the boat for our safety. We only went outside when it "calmed down".
I guess a diesel engine would have been nice.
Has Maddy ever tried this seasickness remedy ? ruclips.net/video/hmQMUdZgIMA/видео.html
+Wadlo thanks for the link, we have ear plugs in the boat for when I have loud jobs (drilling through steel or using the grinder) to do, but we have never tried them out for this.
We will definitely give it a shot next time we get into a rough patch!
Rigging Doctor dont forget to use only one...... good luck 😉
This video makes me think having an electric motor instead of a diesel engine... Is A Really Bad Idea! ... you are obviously at the mercy of batteries and have nothing reliable and abundant to count on in bad situations, hence a busted sail this time; next time it could be the keel breaking off in the middle of the ocean. Then what? Are you guys going to stick with this whole sailing thing? Seems unnecessarily risky.
+Captain 10Star we don't view the motor as a primary form of propulsion, instead we view it as an auxiliary system. We view it more as "at the mercy of the winds" as when there is wind, we set the right sails for it and sail along. When there is no wind, we are forced to sit and wait for the wind to return.
The damaged headstay was a surprise and definitely threw a monkey wrench into our plans. I do carry a spare on board but I would need calm weather to replace it and that was not on our horizon.
About the keel, we specifically chose a full keel boat to avoid that issue. We don't have keel bolts or anything like that. The keel is actually part of the hull and the ballast was then placed inside the keel shape. We have rested on our keel way too many times without fear of damage since it is all part of the hull.
When this boat was made, sails were viewed as the primary mode of propulsion, and engines were optional. We chose an electric motor so that we could get in and out of marinas easier, otherwise we would have gone engineless. We never imagined that we would motor against a storm for 80 miles to get back to land. That was not the goal for the motor and that is why we chose electric.
We view wind as our abundant and reliable source of power, the motor is just there for docking.
While most people carry extra cans of diesel in case they run low, we do the same with our sails. On board, we have 4 sails that go behind the mast and 4 headsails, because we certainly view sails as our main power source on these voyages.
How about having a Dyneema spare innerstay, but store it vertical down the mast, then deploy as needed around windlass? Pair with heavy duty storm jib and hanks.
Electricmotor has much higher efficiency than diesel engine plus gearbox. In addition, torque is higher. The issue is the range - which needs to be overcome with a generator. That said, a 2kw electric inboard in a 38 feet boat which is normally equipped with a 40 kw diesel is rather risky in my eye. I am pla ning to change our yanmar to electric plus genny but make sure that rated rpm and Torque remains the same through the whole rpm curve.
Being a cutter, we already have a permanently rigged inner forestay with a staysail which is actually cut as a storm jib.
i dont get it, why would you stay on that for days on purpose !?
No choice, it was a big storm and we got caught in it. There was no escape, we just had to ride out the storm.
That is not hove to, that is lying abeam!
ya'll need an RV...
We crossed the Atlantic already
Wisdom *IS* an RV.. just an ocean-going type, instead of being one of those boring land-going types!