Rubbing out a finish
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2019
- In this video I rub out a polyurethane coated table top for the ultimate finish result I was looking for. The table top was sprayed with approximately 10 coats of semi-gloss poly which left some orange peel texture on the surface. I flatten this with 320 grit sandpaper and then sand progressively finer up to 2000 grit. Finally some paste wax and the table is ready to be installed.
Festool Rotex Sander: amzn.to/3nFM91v
Really helpful...and really digging the choice of music.
Thanks Ken!
Thanks for info about denatured alcohol. Enjoyed the video.
Thanks for watching and the nice comments!
Thanks Jeff
gave me the confidence to do the same thing on a desk I just varnished.
Fantastic, please let me know how it comes out!
@@JeffMarxWoodworking Jeff
slightly worrying when the surface goes opaque but it has polished up very nicely thanks.
@@julianwinn4502 yeah, somewhat disconcerting when you feel like you ruined your work until its then suddenly beautiful. 🙂
Great video and loved the music.
Thank you, much appreciated!
Wow that music starting at 5m15 was super groovy ahah
Nice video thank you 😎👍👍
Smooth indeed
Kinda makes you wanna get your wiggle on, right? Thanks for the nice comments!
Him: *went over the whole table with 320*
Me: Seems about right!
Him: *Double time!*
Me: Hang on a se...
Him: *Triple time!*
Me: Stop....
Him: *Criss cross*
Me: *heavy breathing*
😁
Great video, thanks for sharing 👍
Thank you, I appreciate it!
I’m pretty new to things but that sanding seemed like way too much.
I’ve always used a wipe-on poly with great results, never any problem with orange peal. Some 0000 steel wool between coats and you have a beautiful finish. I usually apply seven or so coats to the top surfaces which seems to provide great protection.
Thanks for watching and commenting Nils! I've had great success with wipe on poly for lower use items as well but was looking for a little more protection with this table. Your use of many coats likely accomplished that goal as well.
I thought this video was about something else, but equally satisfying 😏
😀
Thank so much for this video. Very informative!
Thanks, I'm so glad you found it useful! Jeff
@@JeffMarxWoodworking qqqqq
Do you think strapping an orbital sander to the bottom of the table to vibrate it would have any effect on reducing orange peel?
That's an interesting idea. I think the issue is really around my not having the finish thinned appropriately to flatten well with such a thin coat as sprayed. I'm also curious of vibrating the substrate would help overcome some of my ineptitude. :)
De lo mejor en tutorial estadounidense
Muchas gracias!
do you ever have any problems with witness lines? i have an instrument coated in minwax oil based brush on and was wondering if you've ever encountered something like that with polyurethane. thanks!
I never leave witnesses behind - just kidding! Brushing water borne poly takes some practice and the right brush to avoid leaving brush marks. You'll want to use a high quality synthetic brush, the right viscosity poly (consider thinning), and don't overbrush. I still ocassionally leave some brush marks behind but not nearly like I used to in my early days. I usually sand lightly with 320 between coats which should adress most of them if not too bad.
@@JeffMarxWoodworking thanks for the reply! i have an oil based poly on there and i was a bit concerned the diferent layers might show as i go to level sand. i planned on buffing out to a high finish with different grits of micro mesh. im just hoping the layers dont show as i sand and hit high/ low spots
@@tophtodaro4927 oil based poly tends to flow out better than water borne. Seems like you have the right plan. Good luck, hope it turns out awesome!
after fine sanding i use mirka compound and polish to bring shine , what's wax for i want to know and also this table has both finish , firstly the oil and poly as well any specific reason?
I used the wax to "knock down" the sheen. Thank you!
Great video! I’ve got a beginner question here if you don’t mind. I put on 3 coats of semi gloss water based varnish on a desk I’m building, but ended up with some orange peel and white dust dots on the surface. I’ve only got a random orbit sander and no buffing machine though. Can I just sand it back to a semi gloss if I were to go to say 4000, or do I need to buff anyhow to get a nice finish? I tried a small piece up to 2000 grit, but that’s still a bit too milky. It doesn’t have that varnish semi gloss to it.
Power buffing isn't necessary, it's really a function of what finish you're looking for. For semi-glass you don't need to go as high as 2000 grit. If you can simply sand it flat 320-400 will probably be adequate. Wipe down with denatured alcohol to remove the dust and bits. If you're still not happy, try rubbing on some furniture wax (like Briwax), letting it dry and then just hand buffing with a clean cloth. Good luck, and please let me know how it goes.
@@JeffMarxWoodworking Thanks! I forgot to mention though that it’s black mdf, not hardwood. So you can literally see everything! Even sanding up to 2000 is not the same as a fresh coat of semi lacquer. I’ll give it a go up to 4000 and see what that does!
@@nicolasmasset Alternatively, you can sand till flat with 320, clean, and finish with another coat of the poly. You don't have to do anything to the last coat of polyurethane if you're happy with how it looks.
I would slap myself if that was my end result! I learn never to come and watch your videos again!!
A nice touch would have been to show the close up again after the sanding and buffing process. Hard to get the full effect from that medium long shot.
You're right, I really wish I had done that. Thanks for watching and commenting, I really appreciate it!
what compound are you using when sanding? great video thank you
Thank you! I didn't use any compound, just sanded through 2000 grit dry and then applied furniture wax. Depending on the finish you're looking for, buffing with a polishing compound after the finest grit can get you to a true mirror finish. I have a couple of compounds for that purpose I got at an auto suppy store. I tend to prefer that kind of finish on decorative boxes or other items rather than furniture, but I can appreciate why others also like it on furniture.
Great video. Can you post a link to your sanding pads? Cant find higher than 320 locally.
You can order sanding disks of all kinds from Rockler.com, and Woodcraft.com. Depending on what you need, you can also probably find on Amazon, but pay attention to quality. Thanks for watching!
Just FYI for you. Things that cause orange peel: 1) Finish material too dry, Needs more reducer. 2) air pressure too high. Excessive air is flashing off the reducer making material thicker. 3) Hand movement too fast over work. Not laying down enough material so it can flow out properly. 4) gun held too far from work. Has an effect similar to number 2 above. Gun adjustments are a big deal. The droplets (atomization) need to be smaller. Practice on a sheet of cardboard or something before laying it down on your work. Good luck with the next one.
Thank you, very well stated!
Old way to do this is with a marble block with chamois leather glued to one side. after the sanding process use marble block (leather side down) with fine stone powder like rottenstone and lubricate with water to burnish the finish. you can get excellent results with this trick. Personally I would NOT put wax on top of polyurethane. Wax on Shellac yes but not wax on poly.
Thank you Robin! I've played with cutting and polishing compounds and learned I need a lot more practice to do it effectively and consistently. It's often true that the old methods are the best methods, but there can be a meaningful learning curve. I appreciate you're taking the time to add useful thoughts to the discussion. Jeff
Nice number of views Jeff!
Thanks Tony, I've been pretty excited about how well this and several other of my videos have done.
How long did you let the poly cure before you rubbed it out?
About a week. It's really important that it's fully cured. I should have mentioned that in the video.
Thanks for watching and asking this important question!
You forgot to add the tight ‘after’ shot to compare with the tight ‘before’ shot of the orange peel texture.
Yeah, that really would have been a good idea. Thank you for watching and commenting!
You got everything right apart from the waxing at the end. If you’d if used a cutting compound on a buffing mop and then do it with some finishing compound on a finer pad you’d of got that mirror finish
Agreed, that would be the right approach if I was targeting a mirror finish and I was almost there. My goal with this table and it's sister piece was a perfect satin sheen. The wax "dumbed down" the shine which was the intent. Thank you for watching and commenting!
Jeff Marx if that was the case buff it with fine wire wool only 😉
I hope you can help me. I sprayed gloss polyurethane spray on a varnished chair but ran into a problem when sanding.
Before spraying, the surface was originally just like paper, rough and matte. I took apart the chair and sprayed the parts with polyurethane. I gave the parts about 8 coats. Then I used 800, then 2000 grit sandpaper (the only ones I could find @ Home Depot). I don’t have a buffer, I did it by hand. The surface ended up very nice and smooth, but now there are white-ish spots all over the surface. What have I done wrong?
I used water droplets on the surface as I was polishing. After I saw the white-ish spots I stopped out of fear that I might sand right through the varnish.
Were the spots there before sanding? You might want to get some coarser sandpaper, sand through the finish and start over. Depending on what I'm starting with, my typical sanding progression is 100 grit, then 220, and 320 before applying finish. You probably want to sand lightly between coats, or when rattle can spraying maybe every 2 or 3 coats with 320 or higher. Sand very lightly to knock down dust knibs and create a "tooth" for the next coat. Don't add water, and you don't need to go as high as 800 or 2000 grit unless you're looking for a mirror finish on a table top.
Ok so I sanded some more in a corner and the dull spot areas got bigger and less and less shinny. Does that mean there isn’t enough polyurethane material ?
@@foxkenji I assume you've sanded through the finish to bare wood there. You probably want to do that for the whole chair and start w a fresh poly finish. Each layer of sprayed finish will be very thin. When you sand between coats, you want to be very gentle. You're looking to smooth and remove dust nibs, but to remove as little finish as you can. A wipe-on poly will be a little bit thicker and brushed on will be even thicker than that. If you're satisfied with the look and feel after spraying on a few coats, you don't need to sand it, that will remove some of the risk, anguish, and rework. :) Good luck, and please let us know how it comes out!
Jeff Marx Jeff Marx there were no spots before sanding (the surface was somewhat smooth but bumpy). The areas with no spots were shinny, the spots dull. I just couldn’t tell if the bumps were areas where there was an excess of clear coat, or not enough. Seems like there just wasn’t enough clear coat material.
I bought these chairs from IKEA and they came with a dull kind of varnish out of the box that feels like paper. That’s not going to last at all w/o a clear coat on top! So I feel apprehensive to remove that coat; the wife and I chose that exact color.
Anyway, thanks for the idea to sand between polyurethane coats. Didn’t even occur to me! What’s better, spray can polyurethane or the one that comes in a paint can? (To use with a foam brush). I used spray cans.
What’s the purpose of creating that “tooth” you mentioned?
I sprayed some more poly and the dull spots went away. (The surface is still smooth and significantly better than before I first sanded but it’s not like touching glass.) If I sand, the spots come back. So I think just have to leave it at that. This is the first time I do this, I’m no carpenter; I think I won’t be able to get a mirror finish.
@@foxkenji the dull spots sound like they are the high areas where your sand paper has scratched the surface. The shiny areas are your low spots where the sand paper can’t reach the surface to scratch.
Also make sure your poly has gone off before you sand it. If it’s still a little tacky then you can get odd results.
I thought the amount of coats put on was excessive and the rubbing out far too aggressive. I would have probably used wipe on poly and about three coats before using 4 zero steel wool and a final coat before buffing out. Each to his/her own though.
Rotex on final coat 😮
It was on random orbit and not Rotex mode. :)
Does this also work on oranges?
Hah! I'll have to try it and see.
Only if you peel them first
Could have done with a close up of the finished finish.
Good idea - sorry, I should have done that!
what was the rpm on the polisher
Good question, I'm not sure. The sander is rated from 3300 - 6800 rpm. I think I was working toward the higher end of that range on random orbit mode. Thanks for watching and asking!
Let the cans sit in warm water for 15 minutes before using a spray can and it will give you a smoother finish at the end.
Nice tip for rattle can spraying, thanks!
Will this method work with removing bubbles and dust spots from a final coat of poly. I stained and applied 3 coats of poly but on my last coat I ended up with bubbles and dust.
@@MartinRodriguez-gx9cs if there is enough thickness under that layer and they're well bonded together, yes. The key is to have enough finish to get it flat and polish out without "burning" through it.
@@JeffMarxWoodworking Same can be done w/ a gun pot - i've often done this w/ latex enamel paints to slightly reduce viscosity, but you have to be careful w/ the water temperature, as you don't want to get it warm enough to affect drying time. Regarding the orange peel - i've found that this effect is more significant when the layers are too thin, and the product doesn't have time to level before setting up (higher ambient temp can also contribute.) Try spraying on slightly thicker coats, or maybe mix in some kind of open-time extender.
@@ryandugan good suggestions l, thanks!
10 coats and you end up with a finish like that! Now you have to do more work to fix it! Must have a lot of free time on your hands.
Been looking for a video to help me find the a good way to finish my table top...still looking, your end result looked bad from a distance
Guess that's why you didn't show a closes up🙄
hey mark thx for the vid, this video was made on a friday. your video edit makes me feel like its all over at 3 minutes. anyway- orange peels are organic. 320 grit is a scam. 80, 120, 600, 1000. flat glossy looks cheap so let a machine make that shit. re-clementine that piece
:)
Well, now I see that you don’t always have to sand with the grain. But I’m not sure why.
Yvonne: When finishing sanding raw wood or wood with a partial (or thin) finish on it, you should finish sanding with the grain particularly with lower grits of paper. Here the finish is thick enough to allow for rubbing it out that the grain direction is no longer really relevant.
I’m about to finish a piano wish me luck
Holy cow, that's quite a project. Good luck! What are you planning to use for product(s)/process?
I live in an isolated place in Canada so choices were not great. First mistake. Couldn’t get black lacquer so I used black minwax polyshades terrible product. The amount of sanding to fix runs with that product is ridiculous. And I’m using a semi gloss polyurethane to finish. So I’m hoping to make it look good.
@@CharlesUFarley778 Sounds like your diligence and elbow grease will win the day. I'd love to see pics when it's done. I'm @jeffmarx3 on Instagram if that's an easy way to share. I've used some polyshades in the past, it's not something I would choose to use again. I have several go-to finish sequences I like depending on the project.
Jeff Marx ok I’ll find you when I’m done cheers!
Looks worse
Looks terrible. Waste of my time.
if you do the job right the first time you wouldn't have to kill the environment with all the waste of detail stuff !!! Overkill !!
He just sanded off about 7 coats of that ten. What a waste of time. Of course every single comment below will say "great Video"
Videos on how to fix poor work. Why not watch videos on how to do it right in the first place. Hmmm.
Michael Megesi where is your video on how to do it the right way?
Disco music 👎👎
So, I guess we shouldn't count on you to put on your platform work boots and polyester shop jumpsuit and follow along. :)