Metal 3d printing for makers is closer than you might think, I have a working prototype of one in my shed and i'm working on making a machine available at around 8000 ex VAT.
For Binder Jet, it's Originally used in All digital textile and flex banner printing, they use Printhead technologies from Fujifilm Dimatix, Seiko, Ricoh. It's fun. Things are about to change.
Another great video Travis! Can't wait for the Print Farm Academy curriculum. (Albeit been 3D printing for nearly 10 years and run a mall print farm - I still plan on taking it....)
Spot on analysis of the machine speed issue and how to squeeze out more of the given platform! We recently aquired Prusa XL's for the very large objects, and the new updates on the nozzles make a HUGE difference. With big parts above 12h print time, shaving of a third is amazing.
Problem with "cheap" metal 3D printing is expensive industrial-like post process. It is more affordable, but still you need cleaning, debinding solvent station, sintering furnace and purest inert gases for sintering process.
Interesting when I was working for Ford Motor company in the 1990s. The Ypsilanti Plant I was told had been produced Start and Alternator Housing using aluminum power. And had removed that tech because they found that the workers were getting that fine Aluminum powder in their lungs. Once spotted on an Xray the employee lived an average of 11 months. By the time I was there, this process had long been removed. Be careful out there.
Bambu needs to revamp the ams to an active drying unit, they need to fix their oem profiles particularly with PETG, and with so many adoptions of their printers they should relase a print farm software and better camera options as an add on. The array is cool but not for 100k, thats like a free boat plus all the bambu's you'd need. Prusa, has cratered so I expect to see some revelations from them as they try to innovate again, however, its unclear how hard the bottom line was hit after dragging their feet on development all these years.
Bambu should release an AMSH "Heated" with their next printers which are hopefully bigger maybe a A1 Max and an XL Carbon because all their other printers are still very usable so don't get rid of any just add the new ones only thing is maybe a revamp to the P1 series by giving them the same touch screen from the X1s
You have issues with PETG using Bambu's print profiles? That's odd. Their PETG profiles are the only profiles that I've left stock because they print perfectly, even the PETG-HF.
Bambu also should adjust their AMS to work with the more interesting filaments, like TPU and PPA CF and so on. All the best ones aren't supported because they're too stiff or too soft
@@thatcherfreeman Stiffer filaments could be made compatible by straitening the filament path with an upgraded AMS. But TPU is nigh impossible for the same reason you can't use it with Bowden setups. Pushing flexibles causes binding, where pulling it is fine.
So many fast moving machines at the show. But you missed the fastest one! There was a machine in Dyze's booth running at 1.5 m/s. yes METERS per second! I attend rapid every other year and this year there was a leap of innovation since rapid in Detroit! Cant wait to see what the market looks like in 2 more years!
Affordable desktop metal 3d printers will be illegal everywhere the moment they are developed, due to the ability to actually print guns; which would be weird because lathes aren't illegal.
3D printing has created a similar problem that exists within software. I have a hammer and everything is a nail. Evaluating the capabilities of each manufacturing method and applying that to the use case becomes critical. Each manufacturing process will provide different part qualities and capabilities. How does the 3D printing word not fall to some of the same problems that are found within the software industry. Great video and love you content.
There are some mods for the bambu lab A1/A1 mini that allows full automation. Automatically ejects the plate and places a new one and gets printing again. There are mods like this for a lot of the open source machines as well.
what we need is just a core xy with a belt like system, like the cr 30. Once its finished, the belt activates and slides the print off and then it starts again. if they can figure out how to keep the bed flat and tight then this is a huge possibility.
The Mosaic print-farm-in-a-box setup feels like it's meant to actually *be* a vending machine. You walk into a cafe-slash-boutique, order your custom flowerpot at the Mosaic Machine, enjoy your overpriced coffee, and pick up the flowerpot 20 minutes later. Obviously we're not there yet but that feels like the dream. With the Amcell, I wonder if they went for deltas because the round build plates didn't have corners to get caught in the output chutes?
The biggest "hidden" trend of the Additive space is resin. The rapid development of functional photopolymers has the potential to put production technologies like MJF and SLS to the test. MJF printing a whole layer at a time has the same speed as MSla. Developing larger MSLA printers (Or dual/tri laser SLA) will allow for similar throughput with lower cost of material and more diverse material range. Being able to print any 355-405nm UV Resin (presuming the correct photo-initiators) is a massive bonus compared to MJF or SLS where depowdering stations etc all have to be deep cleaned to prevent heat issues (And contamination). Monocure3D's Tensile Resin, Kings ABS-like, BASF Procur3D are all resin that have the "wow, this is printed?" factor.
The challenge, though, is reducing the toxicity of resin. Now, I know that SLS is also a technology with a lot of manual post-processing that needs proper PPE, but I think to many people (including myself) there is an emotional difference between "use gloves, goggles, and a respirator to keep this dust on the outside of your body," and "use gloves, long sleeves, and a respirator to keep this poisonous goop from touching you." I don't know which technology is actually more labour-intensive or needs more PPE, but I do think MSLA will struggle to break into the mass-manufacture space until it can address the perception that resin is poison. Put bluntly, I suspect too many people died in the 90s from cancers caused by exposures to toxic chemicals during the 50s as injection molded plastic processes were being developed for industry to be really comfortable with a resin that's known to be toxic.
@@davydatwood3158 I definitely get your point here. I operate both SLA, MSLA and SLS. Resin has more clean-up for sure which contributes to a higher labour cost though you get a lot of throughput for minimal investment (30k USD for 600x600 build volume, compared to 200k+ for a comparable volume) For mass-production facilities PPE is just a by-product of the technology. With metal injection moulding, the sintering and binding is just a requirement. As sad as it may be, with bigger companies it becomes less about safety and more about cost of implementing those safety precautions for which SLS and SLA are similar. Metal printing has massive PPE requirements yet is profitable and thriving in the MedTech space. Metal powders can't even be transported by certain methods due to its potential to go "boom".
I'm wondering how long before 3d print farms are obsolete from all this tech moving towards low cost, high strength etc. My needs are two types of printers, small about 200mm x 200mm build plates and my other size needed is 350mm x 350mm. Bambu labs is nice, but that build plate doesn't work for my needs or orders. Even if Bambu labs did build a larger printer the cost they might not be competitive. Yes the Bambu labs are reliable which in print farms feels like the number one priority. 🤠 I've started running into clients asking about "metal" parts. I guess it's just a matter of time and cost. 🤠
What I am still waiting for is prediction and quality-control as bigger topics. With prediction I mean, that we need more information for stress analysis for FDM printing and with quality-control I mean that even if you think your prints are totally equal, because they are all looking "good", but they are not. This quality-control topic gets even more problematic with faster print speeds because this leads to more irregularities in your printed parts. Looking forward to formnext here in Germany.
Agreed! This is a big issue with "consumer grade" fdm. More often than not it requires a lot of R&D before being able to release a part that you can trust.
the industry needs non-planar or a multi-axis machine of some sort. I hesitate to say it, but "it isnt hard" at this point, given the fact people are doing it in specialized printers or general CNC machining.
These videos are great. I got my wife into lasers and her business is going bonkers. I am just trying to figure out how to incorporate a printer so i can get the business tax write off.
The difference will be the fact that the fine metal powders are way more dangerous and unhealthy than a spool of PLA. Aluminium powder for example can explode like it did at the apple factory in china. And the rest are just evil to inhale. You’re better off ordering metal slm parts from somewhere like jlcpcb and having them delivered. I’d say it’s a long time until it’s a home consumer process. Not to mention I think they also need sintering in an industrial oven.
The binder jet metal looks cool, but I have to think that for anything a pseudo hobbyist/prosumer might want, its not accurate enough, and most things could be made with sheet steel from say send cut send otherwise. I suppose if it starts competing on that level in price then I could see the use cases for not companies, but right now it sounds pretty "you gotta be a big company to logically use this". Im just trying to imagine how you'd go from this, to maybe having a few surfaces machined, and that alone would, I imagine, eliminate any cost benefit, so it kinda seems like its in the realm of "We a big company need a part quickly with a shape that is difficult to machine"
My issue with the binder jet isn't the resolution or accuracy, it's more in what the things I'm making are used for. I'm supplying 3d prints that are used as prototypes for leather stamps. I.e. they run off a number of leather goods stamped with the 3d printed PLA stamp, see if the result is viable, then if they discover one of them is continuously vanishing off the wall or shelf, they get a magnesium stamp made for general production. For my time and materials and printer use time I'm getting about $10 per plastic stamp, they get about 20 to 25 impressions for the stamp, and since they like runs of about 80 to 100 impressions I earn about $40 per stamp. The Magnesium stamps cost them in the neighborhood of $300-400 each. And these are not huge stamps by any means. The vast majority of what I'm making is smaller than 125mmx125mmx5mm, needs no support, so post production is limited to checking to see if the stamp was printed correctly, or is readable. (If you are stamping leather, When I get it correct, I either mirror the text in the model, or in the slicer. In the slicer is 'easier' most of the time.) The problem, the reason that the stamps last 20-25 impressions is that in order to make a salable product, they use a 20 ton press. I haven't seen a lot of test data on other materials, and I just got a black diamond nozzle for my P1S so I can start testing some PETG-GF that I picked up, and we'll see if that's a more survivable material. I'll start that testing in a couple of weeks once the season has wrapped up for the year. In any case that pressure is what I would be concerned with for a sintered product. (As I was writing this it occured to me that it's entirely possible that the 20 tons is dumping a lot of heat into the PLA and that may be why it's got such an effectively short durability time. Which might bode well for PETG-GF. We'll have to see.)
as someone who uses some higher end machines professionally and prusas at home, I feel there's a market in the middle that's missing. The cost of "commercial" printers and supplies makes me feel like there's a huge gap. The convenience of ease of use of the commercial printers is nice cause I can teach someone in an hour to use the slicer and click print, but the cost when I compare it to hobby printers is a little sickening. I think hobby printers are getting pretty close to me justifying having a few at work, but need a bit more ease of use on higher end engineering plastics.
@@tec4303 there’s a bit of a learning curve for playing with slicer settings and build plate adhesion. Plus filament moisture. Those are the most obvious things that have been different, the commercial ones are a little less fussy and most of the settings are locked and predefined. I don’t think those things are hard, but they aren’t as easy and require time. Diagnosing issues in a professional setting requires people and time which we don’t always have.
why noone (at least i never heard of it) tried to 3D print with welding wire? could it work? liquid cooled nozzle, closed chamber you fill with argon, some AC/DC music...hmmm
One version of that is called Wire Arc Additive Manufacturing (WAAM). They basically swap out the extruder with a Mig welder. There's another version mentioned below that Meltio uses. They use welding wire but use instead of using electricity to melt the wire, they use a fiber laser.
Ok. All nice to know. But…since 3d printers are now relatively cheap, and relatively fast, and relatively “larger”, and just about anybody can have one or even several,….how’s does one gain a competitive advantage in order to have a sustainable business?
I didn't find any of it too interesting tbh - none of it sounds relevant for neither consumers nor small to medium businesses. There may be large companies who can justify $100.000 for these 'printfarm boxes' - but only for in-house prototyping where such a workflow could replace an entire employee. For anything you produce to sell there's better options.
I am SO HAPPY we met at RAPID!
Metal 3d printing for makers is closer than you might think, I have a working prototype of one in my shed and i'm working on making a machine available at around 8000 ex VAT.
Need to get some information on metal 3d printing
How can we contact uou
For Binder Jet, it's Originally used in All digital textile and flex banner printing, they use Printhead technologies from Fujifilm Dimatix, Seiko, Ricoh. It's fun. Things are about to change.
Another great video Travis! Can't wait for the Print Farm Academy curriculum. (Albeit been 3D printing for nearly 10 years and run a mall print farm - I still plan on taking it....)
Amazing video, really interesting to see the trends 🎉
Spot on analysis of the machine speed issue and how to squeeze out more of the given platform! We recently aquired Prusa XL's for the very large objects, and the new updates on the nozzles make a HUGE difference. With big parts above 12h print time, shaving of a third is amazing.
Problem with "cheap" metal 3D printing is expensive industrial-like post process. It is more affordable, but still you need cleaning, debinding solvent station, sintering furnace and purest inert gases for sintering process.
Interesting when I was working for Ford Motor company in the 1990s. The Ypsilanti Plant I was told had been produced Start and Alternator Housing using aluminum power. And had removed that tech because they found that the workers were getting that fine Aluminum powder in their lungs. Once spotted on an Xray the employee lived an average of 11 months. By the time I was there, this process had long been removed. Be careful out there.
Bambu needs to revamp the ams to an active drying unit, they need to fix their oem profiles particularly with PETG, and with so many adoptions of their printers they should relase a print farm software and better camera options as an add on. The array is cool but not for 100k, thats like a free boat plus all the bambu's you'd need. Prusa, has cratered so I expect to see some revelations from them as they try to innovate again, however, its unclear how hard the bottom line was hit after dragging their feet on development all these years.
Bambu should release an AMSH "Heated" with their next printers which are hopefully bigger maybe a A1 Max and an XL Carbon because all their other printers are still very usable so don't get rid of any just add the new ones only thing is maybe a revamp to the P1 series by giving them the same touch screen from the X1s
You have issues with PETG using Bambu's print profiles? That's odd. Their PETG profiles are the only profiles that I've left stock because they print perfectly, even the PETG-HF.
Bambu also should adjust their AMS to work with the more interesting filaments, like TPU and PPA CF and so on. All the best ones aren't supported because they're too stiff or too soft
@@thatcherfreeman Stiffer filaments could be made compatible by straitening the filament path with an upgraded AMS. But TPU is nigh impossible for the same reason you can't use it with Bowden setups. Pushing flexibles causes binding, where pulling it is fine.
@@OhImKiCkiN Yeah, tbh I feel like there's room for a redesign that's capable of both pushing and pulling, depending on the material.
3D printing is the future 🙌
Cool, I gotta get to this conference sometime
So many fast moving machines at the show. But you missed the fastest one! There was a machine in Dyze's booth running at 1.5 m/s. yes METERS per second! I attend rapid every other year and this year there was a leap of innovation since rapid in Detroit! Cant wait to see what the market looks like in 2 more years!
Affordable desktop metal 3d printers will be illegal everywhere the moment they are developed, due to the ability to actually print guns; which would be weird because lathes aren't illegal.
3D printing has created a similar problem that exists within software. I have a hammer and everything is a nail. Evaluating the capabilities of each manufacturing method and applying that to the use case becomes critical. Each manufacturing process will provide different part qualities and capabilities. How does the 3D printing word not fall to some of the same problems that are found within the software industry. Great video and love you content.
There are some mods for the bambu lab A1/A1 mini that allows full automation. Automatically ejects the plate and places a new one and gets printing again. There are mods like this for a lot of the open source machines as well.
9:15 Oh I definitely noticed the visual similarities.. having stood next to both while printing though, absolutely not the same
what we need is just a core xy with a belt like system, like the cr 30. Once its finished, the belt activates and slides the print off and then it starts again. if they can figure out how to keep the bed flat and tight then this is a huge possibility.
The Mosaic print-farm-in-a-box setup feels like it's meant to actually *be* a vending machine. You walk into a cafe-slash-boutique, order your custom flowerpot at the Mosaic Machine, enjoy your overpriced coffee, and pick up the flowerpot 20 minutes later. Obviously we're not there yet but that feels like the dream.
With the Amcell, I wonder if they went for deltas because the round build plates didn't have corners to get caught in the output chutes?
Combining 3D print with traditional print. :)
Very good video!
The biggest "hidden" trend of the Additive space is resin. The rapid development of functional photopolymers has the potential to put production technologies like MJF and SLS to the test. MJF printing a whole layer at a time has the same speed as MSla. Developing larger MSLA printers (Or dual/tri laser SLA) will allow for similar throughput with lower cost of material and more diverse material range. Being able to print any 355-405nm UV Resin (presuming the correct photo-initiators) is a massive bonus compared to MJF or SLS where depowdering stations etc all have to be deep cleaned to prevent heat issues (And contamination).
Monocure3D's Tensile Resin, Kings ABS-like, BASF Procur3D are all resin that have the "wow, this is printed?" factor.
The challenge, though, is reducing the toxicity of resin. Now, I know that SLS is also a technology with a lot of manual post-processing that needs proper PPE, but I think to many people (including myself) there is an emotional difference between "use gloves, goggles, and a respirator to keep this dust on the outside of your body," and "use gloves, long sleeves, and a respirator to keep this poisonous goop from touching you." I don't know which technology is actually more labour-intensive or needs more PPE, but I do think MSLA will struggle to break into the mass-manufacture space until it can address the perception that resin is poison.
Put bluntly, I suspect too many people died in the 90s from cancers caused by exposures to toxic chemicals during the 50s as injection molded plastic processes were being developed for industry to be really comfortable with a resin that's known to be toxic.
@@davydatwood3158 I definitely get your point here. I operate both SLA, MSLA and SLS. Resin has more clean-up for sure which contributes to a higher labour cost though you get a lot of throughput for minimal investment (30k USD for 600x600 build volume, compared to 200k+ for a comparable volume)
For mass-production facilities PPE is just a by-product of the technology. With metal injection moulding, the sintering and binding is just a requirement. As sad as it may be, with bigger companies it becomes less about safety and more about cost of implementing those safety precautions for which SLS and SLA are similar.
Metal printing has massive PPE requirements yet is profitable and thriving in the MedTech space. Metal powders can't even be transported by certain methods due to its potential to go "boom".
I would love to see budget friendly SLS printer
Sad to say, that was micronics SLS printing as of the moment.
Hey, any updates on your A1 experiment?
Hi any 3d scanner review for sharing?
Seems like a 3d print farm of Bambu lab printers and Amazon as the distributor can provide quality products fast and efficiently
Have you heard of the Auto farm 3d software it may help your business I use it its expensive but really good
I'm wondering how long before 3d print farms are obsolete from all this tech moving towards low cost, high strength etc. My needs are two types of printers, small about 200mm x 200mm build plates and my other size needed is 350mm x 350mm. Bambu labs is nice, but that build plate doesn't work for my needs or orders. Even if Bambu labs did build a larger printer the cost they might not be competitive. Yes the Bambu labs are reliable which in print farms feels like the number one priority. 🤠 I've started running into clients asking about "metal" parts. I guess it's just a matter of time and cost. 🤠
thx for the video
What I am still waiting for is prediction and quality-control as bigger topics.
With prediction I mean, that we need more information for stress analysis for FDM printing and with quality-control I mean that even if you think your prints are totally equal, because they are all looking "good", but they are not. This quality-control topic gets even more problematic with faster print speeds because this leads to more irregularities in your printed parts.
Looking forward to formnext here in Germany.
Agreed! This is a big issue with "consumer grade" fdm. More often than not it requires a lot of R&D before being able to release a part that you can trust.
What would it take to get solid works into the mix with filament type, in fill and shapes? Static and Dynamic loads.
I think metal powder in resin is the next big thing in 3D printing.
That Array looks pretty cool but that price tag though 😮
Prusa afs looks but the $$$$$$$$$ price tag not my thing
@xswords1953 For that price I hope it comes with a Tesla robot to handle things 😅
the industry needs non-planar or a multi-axis machine of some sort. I hesitate to say it, but "it isnt hard" at this point, given the fact people are doing it in specialized printers or general CNC machining.
Very interesting Thanks for sharing. I’m very new to 3D Printing and I’m loving my Bambu A1
These videos are great. I got my wife into lasers and her business is going bonkers. I am just trying to figure out how to incorporate a printer so i can get the business tax write off.
1. I did not know deltas where still a thing.
2. What ever happened to 3mm filament
In your opinion, how long before metal laser printing is a consumer purchase?
The difference will be the fact that the fine metal powders are way more dangerous and unhealthy than a spool of PLA. Aluminium powder for example can explode like it did at the apple factory in china. And the rest are just evil to inhale. You’re better off ordering metal slm parts from somewhere like jlcpcb and having them delivered. I’d say it’s a long time until it’s a home consumer process. Not to mention I think they also need sintering in an industrial oven.
The binder jet metal looks cool, but I have to think that for anything a pseudo hobbyist/prosumer might want, its not accurate enough, and most things could be made with sheet steel from say send cut send otherwise.
I suppose if it starts competing on that level in price then I could see the use cases for not companies, but right now it sounds pretty "you gotta be a big company to logically use this".
Im just trying to imagine how you'd go from this, to maybe having a few surfaces machined, and that alone would, I imagine, eliminate any cost benefit, so it kinda seems like its in the realm of "We a big company need a part quickly with a shape that is difficult to machine"
My issue with the binder jet isn't the resolution or accuracy, it's more in what the things I'm making are used for. I'm supplying 3d prints that are used as prototypes for leather stamps. I.e. they run off a number of leather goods stamped with the 3d printed PLA stamp, see if the result is viable, then if they discover one of them is continuously vanishing off the wall or shelf, they get a magnesium stamp made for general production. For my time and materials and printer use time I'm getting about $10 per plastic stamp, they get about 20 to 25 impressions for the stamp, and since they like runs of about 80 to 100 impressions I earn about $40 per stamp. The Magnesium stamps cost them in the neighborhood of $300-400 each. And these are not huge stamps by any means. The vast majority of what I'm making is smaller than 125mmx125mmx5mm, needs no support, so post production is limited to checking to see if the stamp was printed correctly, or is readable. (If you are stamping leather, When I get it correct, I either mirror the text in the model, or in the slicer. In the slicer is 'easier' most of the time.)
The problem, the reason that the stamps last 20-25 impressions is that in order to make a salable product, they use a 20 ton press. I haven't seen a lot of test data on other materials, and I just got a black diamond nozzle for my P1S so I can start testing some PETG-GF that I picked up, and we'll see if that's a more survivable material. I'll start that testing in a couple of weeks once the season has wrapped up for the year.
In any case that pressure is what I would be concerned with for a sintered product. (As I was writing this it occured to me that it's entirely possible that the 20 tons is dumping a lot of heat into the PLA and that may be why it's got such an effectively short durability time. Which might bode well for PETG-GF. We'll have to see.)
I’m hoping SLS printers for consumers show up soon
I just doubt this can happen any time soon because of the health risks and the unlikeliness that a home user can manage such a situation.
as someone who uses some higher end machines professionally and prusas at home, I feel there's a market in the middle that's missing. The cost of "commercial" printers and supplies makes me feel like there's a huge gap. The convenience of ease of use of the commercial printers is nice cause I can teach someone in an hour to use the slicer and click print, but the cost when I compare it to hobby printers is a little sickening. I think hobby printers are getting pretty close to me justifying having a few at work, but need a bit more ease of use on higher end engineering plastics.
What's complicated about the consumer printers? I feel like the process is pretty streamlined nowadays
@@tec4303 there’s a bit of a learning curve for playing with slicer settings and build plate adhesion. Plus filament moisture. Those are the most obvious things that have been different, the commercial ones are a little less fussy and most of the settings are locked and predefined. I don’t think those things are hard, but they aren’t as easy and require time. Diagnosing issues in a professional setting requires people and time which we don’t always have.
Can someone explain what the meaning of the word additive meant for this show? In my industry it means something completely different.
Its the opposite of milling. Adding material or removing material to make a part.
Travis, when you were growing up did you ever think you would end up being a farmer?
why noone (at least i never heard of it) tried to 3D print with welding wire? could it work?
liquid cooled nozzle, closed chamber you fill with argon, some AC/DC music...hmmm
Check meltio,they use a wire melted by several lasers as you would use a filament,that machine is amazing
One version of that is called Wire Arc Additive Manufacturing (WAAM). They basically swap out the extruder with a Mig welder. There's another version mentioned below that Meltio uses. They use welding wire but use instead of using electricity to melt the wire, they use a fiber laser.
Ok. All nice to know. But…since 3d printers are now relatively cheap, and relatively fast, and relatively “larger”, and just about anybody can have one or even several,….how’s does one gain a competitive advantage in order to have a sustainable business?
I didn't find any of it too interesting tbh - none of it sounds relevant for neither consumers nor small to medium businesses.
There may be large companies who can justify $100.000 for these 'printfarm boxes' - but only for in-house prototyping where such a workflow could replace an entire employee. For anything you produce to sell there's better options.
first
no u