I think Battle for Mount Hyjal could have benefitted from a something like a heroic mode. Instead of timers between trash just have a new wave spawn immediately after the last wave forcing the raid to rotate out healers and plan when to kill the final mob from the last wave. Give the raid some strategy to match its RTS inspiration (since it was a Warcraft 3 map converted into a raid).
Heroic mode ruined wow. Exclusivity and originality all the way. Mount Hyjal was an amazing raid depending on perspective. I experienced it as a LOTR scene, a war runnning inbetween raided camps.
May be weird to say but Naxxramas felt very cozy to be in with a full raid group. Like sheltering from the cold and hiding from undead inside of this giant structure.
Best stone location too if you were on a PVP server. So many people, so many PVP fights. Someone accidentally clicking a player instead of the summon. Or just someone intentionally starting a fight.
back in mount hyjal i was a beginner, all mages got the order to decurse when the banshees where in the trashpacks, i was new to decurse and so the other mages where faster than me. when my raidlead asked my why i dont decurse i told him that this is new for me and that the other mages are faster, on the next week i was the only decurser to train my speed we made it and it improved my skill on decursing ;)
I have fond memories of Trial of the Crusader. I'm the definition of a casual player but I maxed out my main right as my guild started running it. It was my first real raiding experience. Fun memories.
Personally, I love the Crucible of Storms. I like the old god aesthetics with the eyeballs and tentacles and whatnot, and I think both bossfights were really cool and fun. I also love the narrative idea where the first boss uses the 3 items against you, which you then get to use, first on the trash as a tutorial, then on the second boss. It was also one of the only raids ever where even LFR was legit challenging, and my LFR run there was surprisingly memorable compared to most others. Like, I only finished Sanctum of Domination on LFR so far since with my second baby having born, I don't have time for regular raids. Anyway, I did SoD like 2 weeks ago and I already barely remember the fights except for like 3 of them.
Uunat in Crucible was so amazing. Seeing the Eyes form out of the darkness and shoot beams across the room for the first time, was the first time in years I had been blown away by the graphics of a raid fight
Yeah. Being one of the 40 alliance guilds worldwide to kill Uu’nat on Mythic it was definitely one of the best raids I’ve raided. Great boss. 244 wipes while guilds that killed it often averaged 750ish.
I find the explanation why a lot of people didn't bother Crucible of Storms, especially Mythic, pretty simple: 1.Mythic guilds that attempted CoC already had Jaina under their belt, which is a boss that usually required around 300 pulls, meaning a lot of people were just burnt out from progression at this point 2. 8.2, which was already on the horizon when Crucible came out, presented a soft gear reset (as any major patch does nowadays) and would make, altough unique, gear next to useless anyway.
The main issue with Crucible was when it came out. It came out while guilds were still progressing BoD and was designed for guilds that had already defeated Jaina. My guild would basically just run Uunat on heroic lockouts just for the unique gear and titanforging. I think it would have helped it more if it had dropped during maybe Uldir or something because people just loved running BoD so much. Sure it was a short raid but nobody really wanted to put in the effort for it especially with the massive amount of trash it had.
I absolutely loathed Tomb of Sargeras, yeah. My friend and I started calling it the "Tomb of Soakgeras" due to all the insane unavoidable damage being thrown all over the place. I remember this one time when we got to Kil'jaeden on LFR, and the fight took so long, Kil'Jaeden's berserk timer kicked in and he killed us all shortly after. Or that one time we got to around nine stacks of Determination, that buff you get every time you wipe to a boss in LFR. All on just Kil'Jaeden himself.
I didn't stick around long enough to see "Cataclysm" (left after WotLK, came back for Classic) but I recall watching some of the YT vids of it. Deathwing seemed incredibly cool and as a HUGE fan of Dragons in Fantasy, he seemed impossibly difficult to consider fighting. So, I can fully understand why folks felt let down when they thought they'd be facing off against the biggest baddest Dragon ever (this side of Ancalagon The Black) only to end up on a piggy-back ride, while green jezuz kills him. I think Blizz could have handled it differently but there we have it.
mt hyjal is one of the best atmospheres for a raid, and the trash made SENSE, but they need to learn that trash should NEVER respawn. It should also be meaningful and rewarding to kill in some way. Fighting a group can be fun, but not when it's just filler between bosses
I love the trial raid and dungeon. I finally got into raiding as bit before then with wrath Nazx. I did the dungeon for fun daily, I kinda miss that feeling.
soloing as higher lvl the spine of deathwing gave me such a headache running back and forth so he wouldnt throw me off. The screen spinning all the time.
The main problem my guild had with Ruby Sanctum was the tiny loot table that didn’t offer anything for many specs. Hard to put a group together when there’s no possibility of a reward.
2:29 It's the Battle OF Dazar'alor, the Alliance never meant to take the place. I don't mean to sound like a petty douche, but that mistake is so common it's almost triggering.
@@maeriwen It felt good to get sure.. but it wasn't a well designed fight. It was overtuned and mechanically just a giant "fuck you" to any class that didn't have movement abilities out the ass. A fight where the top guilds basically had to have all their non DH's go Goblin just to get a tiny bit more movement is simply not a well designed one.
Personally I really liked throne of the four winds and I wish that blizzard would consider doing multi raid tiers again, especially for the first tier of an expac.
Yup, amazing raid, just like all raids in Tier11. People loved it back in retail and in the Apollo private server. CoS is also excellent and ToS is one of the best raids ever. Also Dungeon Tiers like in TBC, WotLK and Cata instead of just increasing the ilvl of the existing dungeons, along with a Megadungeon ever X.X.5 patch And I wish Blizzard would just downgrade the graphics back to Vanilla/TBC/WotLK and give us tons of content, frequently. I'm all for multi-raid tiers and I'm all for progressive raiding with built-in catch up mechanics(higher drop rates and 2x lock outs a week for previous Tiers), rather than instant catchup mechanics and raising the ilvls of existing dungeons.
To be fair, you didn't have to learn the EoE mechanics mid fight. The dragons in the Oculus had almost the same abilities and worked the same way and was designed to train people for EoE, but players never did the Oculus because they hated it 😅
There was a daily quest in coldarra (on top of the nexus) that u got a drake that had exactly the same abilities as the ones in EOE, that required you to kill 5 enemy drakes.
@@joester4life that’s not why people hate it, they hate it because we learn our class over days and hours of playtime. I want to play it, not play “move to the right, spam 1, press 3 when bad comes” for a raid boss fight. Its not as rewarding when you down a boss like that. It’s way more cool when it’s you and your buddies standing over the corpse of a dead dragon, instead of hovering over to a floating chest.
Small correction. 25 man Instructor Razuvious did require atleast one priest with Mind Control, but prefferably 2. The crystals to control the Understudies were only available in 10 man.
YES YES YES YES!! And at least in the progression guild I was in: a bubble spec priest for Naxx (in general) was required as well, Vampiric aura helped some for tanking. Love that,. blow that, insta heal from a healy bro pally as well.
I'm surprised to see Tomb of Sargeras here, which was one of my favorite raids of all time, and not see Molten Core, which is arguably the worst raid in WoW's history.
Yes and no is bad yes but is the first raid so is on hearts of everyone so everyone that play classic love it cause they have fun memories even the raid is kinda rush and normal
@@susantuna3434 yeah I get that, I feel that with every wotlk raid, even totc and Naxx, because I started playing in TBC and I really only went into Kara. Wotlk was the first expansion I raided so I look at them with nostalgia
Vault of Archavon is worst to me. Handing out a boring PvE fight as basically a reward for PvP was weird. Plus people who didn't partake in the PvP could still obtain this reward
I think it wasnt the fights ruining it. Sure Madness was weak af, just 2 or 3 mechanics more and it woulf have been fine. I mean we had multiple Platforms, why not let Deathwing do a big Firebreath so you have to jump over to another if you dont want to die or something like that. What really fucked up Dragonsoul was that the Whole raid felt like a betaphase of the Actual Raid. Portals everywhere etc. That was just weird. And that each Boss was just a Recolor and none of them really had a unique model didnt help.
Fun fact, the original design philosophy for the Dragon Soul raid was to have EVERY fight be against Deathwing, and not just the last two. But the devs quickly realized they didn't have enough ideas to make each fight unique, so we got the released pile of garbage instead.
Ultraxion and Spine kinda blew it, the rest was great, but we needed to face off deathwing in human form as a final encounter. It would have been awesome and made the raid much better as humanoids and in general smaller enemies usually make for the best boss fights.
Let's start with the fact Blizzard did not even bother to make any unique models for this raid's bosses. Also it had no room for the exploration, cause between every two bosses you were either using a portal or riding a dragon.
I'm curious where the claim that hardly anybody did Mount Hyjal comes from. I played on a pretty shit server back in TBC, and even on our server most of the raiding guilds were doing MH on a weekly basis.
"least good" Why don't you just call it worst? Seriously, every video of Wow and Yugioh you speak like that, someone could throw poop at you and instead of insulting the person who did it you would say "that wasn't very kind of you".
I mean he explains in well in the video... like or hate the game - WoW has some of the best encounter designs of any MMO out there. Despite the numerous problems and bad systems in the game, their raids are consistently high quality and have been for years. Saying worst implies bad, and most all of these raids would at worst fall in the "just good" category (as opposed to being great).
Dragon Soul is 10 times worse then Hyjal. The entire raid was just reused assets and to say the Deathwing fight was anti-climactic is an understatement.
I liked the Battle for Mount Hyjal raid because of WC3 nostalgia and its the first time that we see NPC's actually fighting alongside your raid which felt epic. All the waves do get very tiresome though.
I liked Hyjal, but I was a T4 elemental shaman who got sniped by a guild who was already doing attempts on Archimonde & half way through black temple. So I didn't have nearly the same pain of wipes. I did get tired of it eventually when we were just farming gear for Sunwell.
I like the idea of dragon soul, is just the raid itself feels like it as someone making a map for the 1st time on the warcraft 3 map editor. As a personal opinion, for the least good raid, I would go with Uldir since it's the most boring thing I ever experience in any video game. Again the idea of fighting an artificial old god, sounds like something that could even be content for its own expansion, but every fight in there had no hype or whatsoever for me.
can't completely disagree with the soak mechanic overload, but it is a really memorable raid for all the right reasons... Kil'jaden or Archimonde in a raid does tend to have that effect...
dragon soul is one of my least favorites because there is 7 years of rp you have to sit through every time you want to go through it. Really makes farming those dragon mounts a lot more annoying than it has to be
I agree with this. I used to love it until all the farming. Lucky for me I got the final boss mounts first and am now stuck on experiement 12-B, thankfully thats before the worst bosses
@@sanahlis5322 Finally got my 12-B like 2 weeks ago. Ultraxion took me probably 150-200 more kills than Deathwing for his single mount vs Deathwings 2 lol.
And yet it's STILL probably the old raid that takes the least amount of time to farm lol (well aside from Ashes in Tempest Keep since you can literally just run to Kael) simply cause it's small. SoO though, thank god I got the Juggernaut in a relatively small amount of runs, running that place over and over is torture it's just so so so freaking huge.
@@badass6300 Molten Core should be on this list agreed. It was a raid cobbled together in a couple weeks time before vanilla's launch so Onyxia wasn't the only raid at 60 (outside of UBRS). I would say after doing wow classic, BWL is still a decent raid for what it is.
@@CtrlAltDlt68 Yup BWL is probably the third best raid after ZG and Naxx from Vanilla, which are still good raids. And Molten Core is enjoyable, on it's own in a vaccum is alright, but still yeah it's 8 elite trash fights, and 2x bosses, still better than TotC with 4 elite trash fights and Anub'Arak.
damn so unfair that ToS is in here, i cant bring myself to hate any legion raid i mean i don't mind that they were very hard and i was wiping all over the place, just the lore behind them is amazing ToS is a huge love letter to the 2nd war era Legion fav expansion
Legion was favorite too but I do get it presence. ToS also help create the faction imbalance cause goblins were so important when killing KJ so a lot of the players that wanted to get Cutting Edge switched to horde.
It was a decent raid and I wouldn't have it as high as him, but so many of the bosses were frustrating to progress on because there was so many instant wipe mechanics, even on normal difficulty.
@@AndreiAvinov I haven't done crucible lfr so I can't tell but Kil'Jaeden lfr back in legion was the biggest pain ever. Imagine your whole raid still not understanding a soak mechanic after 4 consecutive wipes, that was it.
battle of mount hyjal had the right idea though, where you expected to storm the tower and kill deathwing in cata only to go room to room killing five bosses... at least mount hyjal felt like a story was progressing, albeit slowly.
I personally really liked Tomb of Sargaras. Granted I may have nostalgia glasses, since it was the first raid I did in WoW. I can understand tho what Hiru is saying about too much personal responsibility and whatnot. I can't tell you the number of times I caused a wipe filling in as one of the tanks for my raid group on Heroic Maiden for the first time. Trying to get the timing on the bomb down so I wouldn't fall to my death XD.
Tomb Of Sargeras was my favorite as well. I thought it was very flavorful of a raid and it was pretty awesome fighting Kil'Jaeden again even though his meteors were the one reason why we wiped lol.
I also loved Tomb of Sargeras, and it being further on this list than Eye of Eternity and 3.0 Naxx really feels off, but I have to keep reminding myself that I only ever did it in LFR, where the only real issue was people not understanding that the swirly/quasar spell effect means "STAND HERE" (an issue that persists to this day for loafers). I personally feel that the "personal responsibility" of that raid was only slightly higher than later Classic Naxx, Sunwell bosses and Heroic ICC25. Also, when that only happens with the last bosses, I find it a really harsh placement for the raid in the list even though I do detest mechanics where one person can wipe 25.
While many say Wrath of the Lich King is the best expansion ever, I can't help but think how inconsistent in quality the raids were. On one hand you have Ulduar and Icecrown Citadel which are widely considered the best raids of all time. On the other you have Eye of Eternity, Trial of the Crusader and Ruby Sanctum which were all complete shit. (Also Naxxramas which was just copypasted from Vanilla). TotC especially left a sour taste in my mouth (Screw you, Garrosh and your stupid Horde butt monkeys!) Nostalgia sure blinds a lot of people.
Crucible or storms had a low participation rate because everyone was playing classic wow at the time and a new “grindy, difficult raid” did not resonate well with people who just wanted to chill and level up
Not entirely true, Crucible came out before most raiding guilds had killed mythic Jaina and the fights were horribly designed for most raids that didn't class stack. Had nothing to do with classic since BoD was out at pretty much the same time and didn't see the participation drop.
No. It was literally just because the raid was really hard and the gear wasn't as good as SoZ or M+. Heroic was harder than half of the current raid's mythic bosses and mythic was harder than most mythic bosses. Don't speak so clearly about shit you don't know about. Everyone that wanted to play classic was playing it way before crucible came out.
@@adamknerr instead of appreciating, realize you were wrong and don't speak so surely of things you know nothing about. Playing classic over retail because you didn't want to grind is an oxymoron. Classic was a worse grind than WoW is in its current state.
Incorrect, 25 man Razuvious required priests to mind control; 10 man had mind control orbs (at least one) that let any player do it. And WOTLK Naxx was well-loved at the time.
I don't know if other people loved it or not but, it was completely disrespected by the players, as the easiest raid ever. It was considered a complete joke, from release until today.
I liked the Cata & Wrath raids, even Trial of the Crusader EOE contributing factor was the voyage to get there :P Dragon Soul's finale didn't live up to expectations but I liked a few of the bosses, and the gear looked cool That's one of my biggest gripes about Ulduar is the gear aesthetic wasn't all that appealing My picks for worst would have included both of the AQ raids, and Heart of Fear I more or less quit after mop
The times when I played the came most heavily were MoP and Legion, so I have fond memories of all those raids. I think the ones I liked least were one I did only briefly in LFR, like Eternal Palace. Siege of Orgrimmar was lowkey my favorite raid of all time only because of the circumstances of my life when I was playing it.
"WoW's biggest selling point has always been the raids." I sure would like to know what they're like. I've never gotten to raid, I've just never had the item level :(
As someone who is a raider that has completed CE at a relatively decent pace for all of BFA near top 100 US rankings, I can tell you exactly why Crucible of Storms wasn't done very much on Mythic difficulty... It's because there were still a LOT, and I mean, A LOT, of guilds still working on Mythic Jaina upon its release. Keep in mind that a very small amount of the over all WoW community actually clears Cutting Edge content, and people would rather complete Mythic Dazar'Alor over the Mini stand alone Raid that was criminally under played because of WHEN it was released. Most guilds sufficed with Heroic CoS loot because they just never were given real time to progress the raid and the only ones that did have the time were the near top of the mountain guilds that had Mythic Jaina on farm to go work on it.
Your explanation for why players didn’t do classic Naxx is just wrong. Players didn’t do it because it was insanely overtuned and it launched shortly before TBC was released so the gear wasn’t worth the time investment since it would be replaced in the new expansion. This is why most players didn’t do Naxx.
Saying wrath naxx was ''kind of easy'' is an insane understatement even complete noobs with no previous raiding experience were clearing that place in questing greens. Reason why I know that is because I was straight up the only person in my guild who raided before Wrath came out and we cleared that place weekly with very few wipes.
On the flip side, classic Naxx was insanely difficult and the loot sucked. My guild at the time only got it on farm because we were degenerates that raided 5 times a week and we wanted something new and shiny to play with.
wrath Naxx is so easy that on private servers even with double damage and health, significantly buffed mechanics, and adding 1 new mechanic per boss, it still gets cleared on 25 man in the first 24 hours. Though a chunk of that has to do with 3.3.5 talents being available during it and players being a lot better and knowing how the game works more, since it seems like Blizzard intended for DPS to only be in the 3000-4000 dps range in Naxx gear, but you can get to 6K+ in 25 man in pre-raid gear.
I liked Hyjal back in the day. I mean, I was terminally addicted to WoW back then and was the main Hunter in my guild, which meant I felt somewhat special. Which meant I was the Hunter tank for the frost drakes in the Orc camp and stuff and had first dibs on the Archimonde bow... which never dropped. Until the Wrath prepatch, which rendered said bow irrelevant, since I had the Sunwell Plateau bow. So I relinquished my claim to it to an RL-friend Warrior who used it as a stat stick, until Blizz introduced transmogs and I decided I had to have the Archimonde bow. Which meant soloing boring old Hyjal for weeks on end until I happened to get it. I really really hated Hyjal then. I mean, it took me a whole lot longer to get the Archimonde bow than to get the KJ legendary bow from Sunwell. Sigh.
I disagree on both naxxramas in wrath and the tomb of Sargeras. I have nostalgia for naxx since it was my first raid experience with my dad so I loved it. Naxx also was the perfect choice for an intro raid, and if it was too hard in wrath it would’ve been worse. So nerfing it was necessary. Tomb of sargeras is a lot of fun to me when I used to do decently hardcore raiding in legion. IMO Tomb isn’t even the worst of Legion. That’s trial of valor, since it wasn’t even going to be in and they just added it in. Everything else I agree with. Great video!
Battle for mount hyjal was designed like that to mirror the campaign in warcraft 3. Might not been the best but, for that purpose, I think it was pretty good (in wc3 you also wipe waves of increasing difficult as humans and orcs)
I actually kind of really liked Tomb of Sargeras, at least Heroic (never did mythic). Had a lot of fun raiding with my guild that tier. Demonic inquisition was probably my favorite. I was playing Feral back when bleeds were very important so my damage always sucked on that fight having to constantly reset them but still a lot of fun.
I love ToS and i love legion, the last expansion me and the bois tryhard this game, we disbanded after we completed bfa 2nd tier... the game became shit.... So we migrated to FF14 and tryhard there LMAO we are jsut too adicted i guess
haha i LOVED Mt. Hyjal.. such a cool and thematic raid. But i agree that a wipe should not have reset the wave counter.. that was a bit too much! But the Trash Fights themselves where amazing. Using the NPCs around for your advantage was just a unique experience (like pulling enemys into Thralls Tauren Warriors to get extra dps and dmg soak was so cool). Definetly in my top 5 raids :P
See Hyjal was really thematic and the first time you did it it was awesome.. but as a raid your grinding for gear (which given it the the raid with lots of the best gear pre Black Temple you did) doing it every week just was numbing.
I would argue that Dragon soul is also the worst end raid in MODERN content XD Because it takes SOOO LONG to grind due to all the RP and the airship / spine fights being so slow even when you are overleveled.
I think you’re slightly off on crucible of storms. Not only did many high-end competitive guilds not reclear it. Many of them chose to not do it at all. When you make content whose sole audience is your competitive players and they just don’t feel like it you’ve made a huge failure of a raid. I think saying many players liked it in any context is probably wrong. Place was awful. Rewards non-existent. Difficulty very contrived by ridiculous tuning and class stack requirements.
Hello Fen! But eh, from the interviews given and talks about the raid from the highs ends after the fight, it was a major point they came up with that they loved the fight, but they would not be repeating it because it was far too difficult for such a reward, and it was not difficult in the way a fight like Kil'jaden was, but in an actually challenging way. It was ridiculously overtuned, which while fun the first time, is the main reason why no one would ever go back to it. Instead just doing normal/heroic for the items, and dealing with the fact they were a bit weaker then their mythic counterparts. A fight they apparently did love, but hated the idea of ever having to do it again.
All of the bosses are excellent, except for the 7th one, I forgot the name, the dps check with the 3x stone circles you need to stand in when he explodes and then breaks them.
Lmao I remember being so pumped to see "mounted combat" in the wotlk trailer, thank God it didn't become a new meta or something. PvP would be horrendous.
Crucible of storms, or more particularly uunat the final boss, is widely considered to be one of if not the best final bosses in wow history by the high end raiders, who this raid was designed for. Crucible and uunat were meant to be cleared by top tier mythic raiders who’d already done all of mythic Dazar alor, it was not meant to be completed by non hardcore guilds. Go back and look at the coverage for that race to world first, all the casters and top guilds were giving it nothing but praise
Yep. Being one of the 40 alliance guilds worldwide to kill Mythic Uu’nat and go back there weekly to 1 shot him was a big highlight in my raiding past. The fight was fantastic. Too bad most of the people in my guild that did that fight are no longer playing, still in the same guild and all.
I remember when it was current, it was hated, but the second nostalgia set in it was beloved. I really enjoyed the raid, it was a level of challenging we hadn't seen in a while, getting aotc was very satisfying.
@@acorr14 Yea, personally I loved the personal responsibility of having to soak multiple mechanics but I can see why someone wouldn’t like having to soak circles, soak a beam, then immediately soak circles again
@@TheOneWhoReportsForDuty Yeah. The defining phrase for ToS for me was "Soak or Die" which can be a fine mechanic. But quite a few mechanics in ToS were "Do this right or everyone dies". It did feel amazing when you did the mechanic right though :)
And Yes, actually, wow does have some generally hated raids! Onyxia, Molten fucking Core much? Do you even research? oO AQ 40 wasn't exactly well liked either.: 15-30 minutes of trash, to make your way to a overturned angry bubble? I don't think Spine of Deathwing from a fan made DLC was well liked. You do know that Crapaclysm almost destroyed the company right? that's how well "liked" it was.
oO MSV Was a pretty fun raid to tank, IMO. Legion: Yes, heaven for bid people read up on fights and have some clue what they're doing. Oh heaven for bid they do that. Naxramas was...hit and miss. Some encounters sucked ass: Heigan the unclean spamming goup. being a "special" kind of thinking. Compare that to the 4 horesman where tanks got to play musical hard swap before the dots started hard crits, and hasted crush blows: where it's not just GPU luck: remember this expac came out when we still had fucking CD drives and had a good gaming computer cost a small fortune, and at least in my part of the US? We're rawdogged by cunty governors and shitty internet. Imagine trying to do heroic lootshit on DSL on mid graphic settings as a fucking tank... now? if I were to go back? knowing what I know now? sure...maybe. But ICC and TOC were way more to tank, so much so it wasn't even close....except for the LK encounter propper...mmmm constant AE spam and mobs everyfucking where..."fun"
Ok so umm why isn't Onyxia's lair on hear? Phase to: fear spam? Hi i'd like to ta...FUUCK MY LIFE FUCKING FEAR!!. Tank in the whole! whipe incoming from FUCKING FEAR!! I have ptsd from that fucking fight.
How many people in the game do mythic progression? Is it maybe 10% of the playerbase? I don't fret over the high-performance community. I legit thought CoS was an awesome raid, with cool bosses and fun mechanics. But I also skipped 8.1 because I burned out during BfA and came back for 8.2, so I only got to play it on LFR with better geared people.
Dragon Soul was also the birth of LFR so I'm sure for many that puts a sour taste in their mouth. However, back then LFR was the only way I raided so I was quite happy with it at the time haha.
I don't think Cruicible of Stroms belongs here, it's a great example of how to do a "Mini raid" and Uu'nat as insane as a fight he was was a really creative and interestingly designed fight. The main reason it wasn't done that much was just.. everyone knew Eternal Palace was coming out in like two months and the gear wasn't that big an upgrade over BoDs and again with EP coming it'd be replaced pretty damn fast. So a lot of people just weren't willing to farm it. Dragon Soul should probably be like No 2, it's the worst final raid by far. ToS Im mixed on being on the list (it IS the worst raid in Legion and KJ is a pretty badly designed boss where they seemingly forgot most classes can't just go SUPER FAST every 20 seconds) but im not sure if it's bottom 10 overall bad) but if it is it should be like 10 or 9. Battle for Mount Hyjal totally deserves that No 1 spot though. It was cool once for the nostalgia and lore factor but then you realize.. someone actually thought an entirely wave based Raid was a good idea. Trash in raids is meant to be a break between bosses for you to unwind a bit not essentially the main event of the raid.
![Top 10 Hardest Raid Bosses of All Time in World of Warcraft [Reforged]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aQfWto_5Hnw/mqdefault.jpg)
To me Ruby Sanctum wasnt a new final raid for an expansion, but rather the first pre expansion raid.
100% and this is how everyone I knew in game at the time thought of it as well.
That's a really good and optimistic way to look at it :)
I agree with this tbh... it doesn't share themes or anything with the second half of WotLK feeling more like Cata or even the first half of WotLK
@@XXXmarquisemore like the correct way to look at it. *Points at lore*
Yeah people are just cringe fuckin crybabies lol. Complain about content droughts then complain they get a free raid. Unreal
Another big factor in ToC was grand crusader being really tough and requiring 15 people to be soulstoned
I think Battle for Mount Hyjal could have benefitted from a something like a heroic mode. Instead of timers between trash just have a new wave spawn immediately after the last wave forcing the raid to rotate out healers and plan when to kill the final mob from the last wave. Give the raid some strategy to match its RTS inspiration (since it was a Warcraft 3 map converted into a raid).
Heroic mode ruined wow. Exclusivity and originality all the way.
Mount Hyjal was an amazing raid depending on perspective. I experienced it as a LOTR scene, a war runnning inbetween raided camps.
The Warcraft 3 mission was a million times better than the raid. The raid was turbo bad.
Heroic wasn’t a thing then.
May be weird to say but Naxxramas felt very cozy to be in with a full raid group. Like sheltering from the cold and hiding from undead inside of this giant structure.
Best stone location too if you were on a PVP server. So many people, so many PVP fights. Someone accidentally clicking a player instead of the summon. Or just someone intentionally starting a fight.
Lol what? No it didn’t. It was full of spiders, undead horrors, and vile creatures.
@justin9744 Well yes but I meant the ambience. It's hard to explain
back in mount hyjal i was a beginner,
all mages got the order to decurse when the banshees where in the trashpacks,
i was new to decurse and so the other mages where faster than me. when my raidlead asked my why i dont decurse i told him that this is new for me and that the other mages are faster,
on the next week i was the only decurser to train my speed
we made it and it improved my skill on decursing ;)
Cute story thank you for being a burger :)
imagine decursing without decursive ö,o
I have fond memories of Trial of the Crusader. I'm the definition of a casual player but I maxed out my main right as my guild started running it. It was my first real raiding experience. Fun memories.
Personally, I love the Crucible of Storms. I like the old god aesthetics with the eyeballs and tentacles and whatnot, and I think both bossfights were really cool and fun. I also love the narrative idea where the first boss uses the 3 items against you, which you then get to use, first on the trash as a tutorial, then on the second boss.
It was also one of the only raids ever where even LFR was legit challenging, and my LFR run there was surprisingly memorable compared to most others. Like, I only finished Sanctum of Domination on LFR so far since with my second baby having born, I don't have time for regular raids. Anyway, I did SoD like 2 weeks ago and I already barely remember the fights except for like 3 of them.
Uunat in Crucible was so amazing. Seeing the Eyes form out of the darkness and shoot beams across the room for the first time, was the first time in years I had been blown away by the graphics of a raid fight
Yeah. Being one of the 40 alliance guilds worldwide to kill Uu’nat on Mythic it was definitely one of the best raids I’ve raided. Great boss. 244 wipes while guilds that killed it often averaged 750ish.
I find the explanation why a lot of people didn't bother Crucible of Storms, especially Mythic, pretty simple:
1.Mythic guilds that attempted CoC already had Jaina under their belt, which is a boss that usually required around 300 pulls, meaning a lot of people were just burnt out from progression at this point
2. 8.2, which was already on the horizon when Crucible came out, presented a soft gear reset (as any major patch does nowadays) and would make, altough unique, gear next to useless anyway.
Faction Champions was awesome and no one can change my mind.
The main issue with Crucible was when it came out. It came out while guilds were still progressing BoD and was designed for guilds that had already defeated Jaina. My guild would basically just run Uunat on heroic lockouts just for the unique gear and titanforging. I think it would have helped it more if it had dropped during maybe Uldir or something because people just loved running BoD so much. Sure it was a short raid but nobody really wanted to put in the effort for it especially with the massive amount of trash it had.
dragon soul and tomb of sargeras are two of my favourite raids to this day
I always had issues finding Malygos after we got on the drakes. That was the pain in the ass for me about it
I absolutely loathed Tomb of Sargeras, yeah. My friend and I started calling it the "Tomb of Soakgeras" due to all the insane unavoidable damage being thrown all over the place. I remember this one time when we got to Kil'jaeden on LFR, and the fight took so long, Kil'Jaeden's berserk timer kicked in and he killed us all shortly after. Or that one time we got to around nine stacks of Determination, that buff you get every time you wipe to a boss in LFR. All on just Kil'Jaeden himself.
I didn't stick around long enough to see "Cataclysm" (left after WotLK, came back for Classic) but I recall watching some of the YT vids of it. Deathwing seemed incredibly cool and as a HUGE fan of Dragons in Fantasy, he seemed impossibly difficult to consider fighting.
So, I can fully understand why folks felt let down when they thought they'd be facing off against the biggest baddest Dragon ever (this side of Ancalagon The Black) only to end up on a piggy-back ride, while green jezuz kills him. I think Blizz could have handled it differently but there we have it.
mt hyjal is one of the best atmospheres for a raid, and the trash made SENSE, but they need to learn that trash should NEVER respawn. It should also be meaningful and rewarding to kill in some way. Fighting a group can be fun, but not when it's just filler between bosses
Im that one guy who absolutely loves Mount Hyjal, so yeah, we exist. Wiped 11 times in a row on Archimonde before we finally got him :D
Tomb of Sargeras was one of my favorite raids. Easily the best raid of the xpac. The argus raid was the weakest link for a final raid boss.
Wow lover here! Liked and subscribed!✌️😊
I love the trial raid and dungeon. I finally got into raiding as bit before then with wrath Nazx. I did the dungeon for fun daily, I kinda miss that feeling.
The footage from naxx, how does that work? Timewalking? Wrath project?
soloing as higher lvl the spine of deathwing gave me such a headache running back and forth so he wouldnt throw me off. The screen spinning all the time.
It's the worst. I have to remove some gear and it is very tedious. I still need that Blazing Drake so I have to deal with it every week.
The main problem my guild had with Ruby Sanctum was the tiny loot table that didn’t offer anything for many specs. Hard to put a group together when there’s no possibility of a reward.
Thats honestly not true, you had bis gear for close to every spec. gts, sts,pts were one of the most powerful equipment in game for starters.
OMG I remember that ridiculous Maiden of Vigilance fight lol
how is this list so wrong
2:29 It's the Battle OF Dazar'alor, the Alliance never meant to take the place. I don't mean to sound like a petty douche, but that mistake is so common it's almost triggering.
Didn't you need some mount hyal for attument to black temple?
MH my all-time favourite...feels like an actual LOTR scene.
Wows biggest selling point was once it's world.
Take me back
Tomb of Soakgeras was such a cool raid though.
Agree i kinda like it
Getting Cutting Edge on Kil'Jaeden is one of my proudest moments in Wow. Insanely hard raid, but really cool!
@@maeriwen sameeeee
@@maeriwen It felt good to get sure.. but it wasn't a well designed fight. It was overtuned and mechanically just a giant "fuck you" to any class that didn't have movement abilities out the ass. A fight where the top guilds basically had to have all their non DH's go Goblin just to get a tiny bit more movement is simply not a well designed one.
It was very challenging raid tier, i enjoyed it, had realy good times when we finnaly downed M Kj after 600 wipes haha.
Personally I really liked throne of the four winds and I wish that blizzard would consider doing multi raid tiers again, especially for the first tier of an expac.
true but it requires too much work for their lazy asses
Agree, super easy especially when farming the mount or transmog, much welcomed compared to the other raids of that expansion.
@@adamgrabowski938 I like how you called the ART TEAM and DESIGNERS lazy when they've literally been carrying the past couple of expansions.
@@TuberoseKisser i meant activision blizzard in general, it would require too much manpower and work for the CEO to even consider it
Yup, amazing raid, just like all raids in Tier11. People loved it back in retail and in the Apollo private server.
CoS is also excellent and ToS is one of the best raids ever.
Also Dungeon Tiers like in TBC, WotLK and Cata instead of just increasing the ilvl of the existing dungeons, along with a Megadungeon ever X.X.5 patch
And I wish Blizzard would just downgrade the graphics back to Vanilla/TBC/WotLK and give us tons of content, frequently. I'm all for multi-raid tiers and I'm all for progressive raiding with built-in catch up mechanics(higher drop rates and 2x lock outs a week for previous Tiers), rather than instant catchup mechanics and raising the ilvls of existing dungeons.
To be fair, you didn't have to learn the EoE mechanics mid fight. The dragons in the Oculus had almost the same abilities and worked the same way and was designed to train people for EoE, but players never did the Oculus because they hated it 😅
I really like this thing, especiall nowadays
How you get to fight with minions before bosses, and they use skills, that bosses will be using later
There was a daily quest in coldarra (on top of the nexus) that u got a drake that had exactly the same abilities as the ones in EOE, that required you to kill 5 enemy drakes.
This is crazy to me because I loved the Oculus.
They hated it because everyone was the same Dragon level bs. Then they changed it to match your ilvl.
@@joester4life that’s not why people hate it, they hate it because we learn our class over days and hours of playtime. I want to play it, not play “move to the right, spam 1, press 3 when bad comes” for a raid boss fight. Its not as rewarding when you down a boss like that. It’s way more cool when it’s you and your buddies standing over the corpse of a dead dragon, instead of hovering over to a floating chest.
Small correction. 25 man Instructor Razuvious did require atleast one priest with Mind Control, but prefferably 2. The crystals to control the Understudies were only available in 10 man.
I was thinking the same thing.
yea i was thinking , i did the mc i nax i wolk so that must be wrong :p
YES YES YES YES!! And at least in the progression guild I was in: a bubble spec priest for Naxx (in general) was required as well, Vampiric aura helped some for tanking. Love that,. blow that, insta heal from a healy bro pally as well.
I'm surprised to see Tomb of Sargeras here, which was one of my favorite raids of all time, and not see Molten Core, which is arguably the worst raid in WoW's history.
Yes and no is bad yes but is the first raid so is on hearts of everyone so everyone that play classic love it cause they have fun memories even the raid is kinda rush and normal
@@susantuna3434 yeah I get that, I feel that with every wotlk raid, even totc and Naxx, because I started playing in TBC and I really only went into Kara. Wotlk was the first expansion I raided so I look at them with nostalgia
Vault of Archavon is worst to me. Handing out a boring PvE fight as basically a reward for PvP was weird. Plus people who didn't partake in the PvP could still obtain this reward
Molten Core boss is just trash but stronger exept for rag
Molten core was the first raid ever and was made in like a week. It’s pretty good all things considered.
Dragon Soul had so much potential :( Shame a couple of fights ruined the whole thing.
I think it wasnt the fights ruining it.
Sure Madness was weak af, just 2 or 3 mechanics more and it woulf have been fine.
I mean we had multiple Platforms, why not let Deathwing do a big Firebreath so you have to jump over to another if you dont want to die or something like that.
What really fucked up Dragonsoul was that the Whole raid felt like a betaphase of the Actual Raid.
Portals everywhere etc. That was just weird.
And that each Boss was just a Recolor and none of them really had a unique model didnt help.
Fun fact, the original design philosophy for the Dragon Soul raid was to have EVERY fight be against Deathwing, and not just the last two. But the devs quickly realized they didn't have enough ideas to make each fight unique, so we got the released pile of garbage instead.
Ultraxion and Spine kinda blew it, the rest was great, but we needed to face off deathwing in human form as a final encounter. It would have been awesome and made the raid much better as humanoids and in general smaller enemies usually make for the best boss fights.
@@badass6300 Spine was the reason I never finished the raid
Let's start with the fact Blizzard did not even bother to make any unique models for this raid's bosses. Also it had no room for the exploration, cause between every two bosses you were either using a portal or riding a dragon.
I'm curious where the claim that hardly anybody did Mount Hyjal comes from. I played on a pretty shit server back in TBC, and even on our server most of the raiding guilds were doing MH on a weekly basis.
He has said in a previous video that he doesn’t care about spewing misinformation or upsetting people iirc.
It came from his ass, like most of his statements do. This channel says so many things that are just wrong.
"least good"
Why don't you just call it worst? Seriously, every video of Wow and Yugioh you speak like that, someone could throw poop at you and instead of insulting the person who did it you would say "that wasn't very kind of you".
I mean he explains in well in the video... like or hate the game - WoW has some of the best encounter designs of any MMO out there. Despite the numerous problems and bad systems in the game, their raids are consistently high quality and have been for years. Saying worst implies bad, and most all of these raids would at worst fall in the "just good" category (as opposed to being great).
Last boss of Mogu Vaults was fun af. I loved dodging those telegraphs.
Agreed. It was a fun boss.
man throne of four winds was such a dope raid actually, al akir was an awesome fight
Completely agree with you
Yup, amazing raid just like all Tier 11 raids.
There was always those guys that couldn't avoid the whirlwinds tho 😂
Shame blizzard never gave him a voice actor though.
Imo, T11 was the best raiding tier in WoW history (Bastion of Twilight, Throne of the Four Winds and Blackwing Descent).
Dragon Soul is 10 times worse then Hyjal. The entire raid was just reused assets and to say the Deathwing fight was anti-climactic is an understatement.
Other then archimonde, the entire hyjal fight was entirely reused assets aswell.
"I thought spine of death wing was one of the most fun fights I've ever done."
What?!?!
I also liked spine. It was different.
I liked it at the time; only did it on normal though
Yea I just can’t take this channel seriously ever again if that’s a true statement. Dragon Soul is one of the worst raids ever made.
I liked the Battle for Mount Hyjal raid because of WC3 nostalgia and its the first time that we see NPC's actually fighting alongside your raid which felt epic. All the waves do get very tiresome though.
Masochist kekw
I only like Hyjal because of nostalgia
I liked Hyjal, but I was a T4 elemental shaman who got sniped by a guild who was already doing attempts on Archimonde & half way through black temple. So I didn't have nearly the same pain of wipes.
I did get tired of it eventually when we were just farming gear for Sunwell.
I like the idea of dragon soul, is just the raid itself feels like it as someone making a map for the 1st time on the warcraft 3 map editor.
As a personal opinion, for the least good raid, I would go with Uldir since it's the most boring thing I ever experience in any video game. Again the idea of fighting an artificial old god, sounds like something that could even be content for its own expansion, but every fight in there had no hype or whatsoever for me.
Tomb of Sargeras being so high its fucking criminal its literally art in mmo pve content form
Agreed, love the raid so much.
can't completely disagree with the soak mechanic overload, but it is a really memorable raid for all the right reasons... Kil'jaden or Archimonde in a raid does tend to have that effect...
clearly spoke too soon on the Archimonde addition being automatically memorable, for the right reasons :D
Yea this channel is just run by a grifter who doesn’t know what he is talking about.
dragon soul is one of my least favorites because there is 7 years of rp you have to sit through every time you want to go through it. Really makes farming those dragon mounts a lot more annoying than it has to be
Plus Dragon Spine!
I agree with this. I used to love it until all the farming. Lucky for me I got the final boss mounts first and am now stuck on experiement 12-B, thankfully thats before the worst bosses
@@sanahlis5322 Finally got my 12-B like 2 weeks ago. Ultraxion took me probably 150-200 more kills than Deathwing for his single mount vs Deathwings 2 lol.
And yet it's STILL probably the old raid that takes the least amount of time to farm lol (well aside from Ashes in Tempest Keep since you can literally just run to Kael) simply cause it's small.
SoO though, thank god I got the Juggernaut in a relatively small amount of runs, running that place over and over is torture it's just so so so freaking huge.
@@thewalrus45 congrats! Now hopefully you never have to go in Dragon Soul again
How is emerald nightmare not here? ToS was alot more liked than emerald
I 100% agree, but apparently EN was well liked, for some reason, in my opinion it's one of the worst raids
I would say they were equally awful. For all the great things about Legion, the raids were really hit or miss.
ToS is GOAT raid. EN was a great raid as well. IDK how most Vanilla raids aren't on the list. While CoS, TotW and ToS are...
@@badass6300 Molten Core should be on this list agreed. It was a raid cobbled together in a couple weeks time before vanilla's launch so Onyxia wasn't the only raid at 60 (outside of UBRS). I would say after doing wow classic, BWL is still a decent raid for what it is.
@@CtrlAltDlt68 Yup BWL is probably the third best raid after ZG and Naxx from Vanilla, which are still good raids.
And Molten Core is enjoyable, on it's own in a vaccum is alright, but still yeah it's 8 elite trash fights, and 2x bosses, still better than TotC with 4 elite trash fights and Anub'Arak.
damn so unfair that ToS is in here, i cant bring myself to hate any legion raid i mean i don't mind that they were very hard and i was wiping all over the place, just the lore behind them is amazing ToS is a huge love letter to the 2nd war era
Legion fav expansion
Legion was favorite too but I do get it presence. ToS also help create the faction imbalance cause goblins were so important when killing KJ so a lot of the players that wanted to get Cutting Edge switched to horde.
It was a decent raid and I wouldn't have it as high as him, but so many of the bosses were frustrating to progress on because there was so many instant wipe mechanics, even on normal difficulty.
Crucible was just such a pain in LFR. You could try it a whole week and not get a kill before the whole party just started to leave the group
Isn’t every raid a pain in LFR?
@@ChinnuWoW this one especially, I even tried to tank and RL it a bit, but it was such a pain and frustration
@@AndreiAvinov I'd rather not raid at all than to do LFR. It's not hard to find a guild that raids at convenient times for you.
@@ChinnuWoW my guild fell apart after we finished mythic Ghuun. I was basically in the process of abandoning wow anyway
@@AndreiAvinov I haven't done crucible lfr so I can't tell but Kil'Jaeden lfr back in legion was the biggest pain ever. Imagine your whole raid still not understanding a soak mechanic after 4 consecutive wipes, that was it.
WotLK Naxx was a joke and ludicrously easy. Anub's scarabs had the same damage as they did in Vanilla.
battle of mount hyjal had the right idea though, where you expected to storm the tower and kill deathwing in cata only to go room to room killing five bosses... at least mount hyjal felt like a story was progressing, albeit slowly.
If you played W3, hyjal raid was pure awesome.
And was very different of other raids at the time.
Nowada, it's really lackluster for sure.
I personally really liked Tomb of Sargaras. Granted I may have nostalgia glasses, since it was the first raid I did in WoW. I can understand tho what Hiru is saying about too much personal responsibility and whatnot.
I can't tell you the number of times I caused a wipe filling in as one of the tanks for my raid group on Heroic Maiden for the first time. Trying to get the timing on the bomb down so I wouldn't fall to my death XD.
Tomb Of Sargeras was my favorite as well. I thought it was very flavorful of a raid and it was pretty awesome fighting Kil'Jaeden again even though his meteors were the one reason why we wiped lol.
I also loved Tomb of Sargeras, and it being further on this list than Eye of Eternity and 3.0 Naxx really feels off, but I have to keep reminding myself that I only ever did it in LFR, where the only real issue was people not understanding that the swirly/quasar spell effect means "STAND HERE" (an issue that persists to this day for loafers). I personally feel that the "personal responsibility" of that raid was only slightly higher than later Classic Naxx, Sunwell bosses and Heroic ICC25. Also, when that only happens with the last bosses, I find it a really harsh placement for the raid in the list even though I do detest mechanics where one person can wipe 25.
TOMB Of sargeras was awesome . idk what is he talking about.
I would totally do a one boss/two boss raids in the world that drops only trinkets! we need things like these in the game.
While many say Wrath of the Lich King is the best expansion ever, I can't help but think how inconsistent in quality the raids were. On one hand you have Ulduar and Icecrown Citadel which are widely considered the best raids of all time. On the other you have Eye of Eternity, Trial of the Crusader and Ruby Sanctum which were all complete shit. (Also Naxxramas which was just copypasted from Vanilla). TotC especially left a sour taste in my mouth (Screw you, Garrosh and your stupid Horde butt monkeys!)
Nostalgia sure blinds a lot of people.
Crucible or storms had a low participation rate because everyone was playing classic wow at the time and a new “grindy, difficult raid” did not resonate well with people who just wanted to chill and level up
Not to mention the gear was pretty meh.
Not entirely true, Crucible came out before most raiding guilds had killed mythic Jaina and the fights were horribly designed for most raids that didn't class stack.
Had nothing to do with classic since BoD was out at pretty much the same time and didn't see the participation drop.
No. It was literally just because the raid was really hard and the gear wasn't as good as SoZ or M+. Heroic was harder than half of the current raid's mythic bosses and mythic was harder than most mythic bosses. Don't speak so clearly about shit you don't know about. Everyone that wanted to play classic was playing it way before crucible came out.
@@joemomma2218 I appreciate your zealotry in the youtube comments section
@@adamknerr instead of appreciating, realize you were wrong and don't speak so surely of things you know nothing about. Playing classic over retail because you didn't want to grind is an oxymoron. Classic was a worse grind than WoW is in its current state.
Incorrect, 25 man Razuvious required priests to mind control; 10 man had mind control orbs (at least one) that let any player do it.
And WOTLK Naxx was well-loved at the time.
I don't know if other people loved it or not but, it was completely disrespected by the players, as the easiest raid ever. It was considered a complete joke, from release until today.
No it absolutely wasn't "well loved" at the time. People routinely shit talked how easy it was and the rise of "welfare epics."
I love WotLK Naxx, though I haven't done Classic.
@@Tijuanabill i think tier 7 as a whole made way for the term wrath babies aswell.
I mean, I was there. I never got tired of running naxx, but my guild burned out hard on TOC and ICC
I liked the Cata & Wrath raids, even Trial of the Crusader
EOE contributing factor was the voyage to get there :P
Dragon Soul's finale didn't live up to expectations but I liked a few of the bosses, and the gear looked cool
That's one of my biggest gripes about Ulduar is the gear aesthetic wasn't all that appealing
My picks for worst would have included both of the AQ raids, and Heart of Fear
I more or less quit after mop
I liked Battle for Mount Hyjal
Dragon Soul singlehandedly killed my enjoyment of WoW and is why I quit early into MoP until Classic
The times when I played the came most heavily were MoP and Legion, so I have fond memories of all those raids. I think the ones I liked least were one I did only briefly in LFR, like Eternal Palace. Siege of Orgrimmar was lowkey my favorite raid of all time only because of the circumstances of my life when I was playing it.
"WoW's biggest selling point has always been the raids."
I sure would like to know what they're like. I've never gotten to raid, I've just never had the item level :(
Tomb of sargeras is top 10 ez
As someone who is a raider that has completed CE at a relatively decent pace for all of BFA near top 100 US rankings, I can tell you exactly why Crucible of Storms wasn't done very much on Mythic difficulty... It's because there were still a LOT, and I mean, A LOT, of guilds still working on Mythic Jaina upon its release. Keep in mind that a very small amount of the over all WoW community actually clears Cutting Edge content, and people would rather complete Mythic Dazar'Alor over the Mini stand alone Raid that was criminally under played because of WHEN it was released. Most guilds sufficed with Heroic CoS loot because they just never were given real time to progress the raid and the only ones that did have the time were the near top of the mountain guilds that had Mythic Jaina on farm to go work on it.
Your explanation for why players didn’t do classic Naxx is just wrong. Players didn’t do it because it was insanely overtuned and it launched shortly before TBC was released so the gear wasn’t worth the time investment since it would be replaced in the new expansion. This is why most players didn’t do Naxx.
I actually really like trial of the crusader
Saying wrath naxx was ''kind of easy'' is an insane understatement even complete noobs with no previous raiding experience were clearing that place in questing greens. Reason why I know that is because I was straight up the only person in my guild who raided before Wrath came out and we cleared that place weekly with very few wipes.
On the flip side, classic Naxx was insanely difficult and the loot sucked. My guild at the time only got it on farm because we were degenerates that raided 5 times a week and we wanted something new and shiny to play with.
wrath Naxx is so easy that on private servers even with double damage and health, significantly buffed mechanics, and adding 1 new mechanic per boss, it still gets cleared on 25 man in the first 24 hours. Though a chunk of that has to do with 3.3.5 talents being available during it and players being a lot better and knowing how the game works more, since it seems like Blizzard intended for DPS to only be in the 3000-4000 dps range in Naxx gear, but you can get to 6K+ in 25 man in pre-raid gear.
I liked Hyjal back in the day. I mean, I was terminally addicted to WoW back then and was the main Hunter in my guild, which meant I felt somewhat special. Which meant I was the Hunter tank for the frost drakes in the Orc camp and stuff and had first dibs on the Archimonde bow... which never dropped. Until the Wrath prepatch, which rendered said bow irrelevant, since I had the Sunwell Plateau bow. So I relinquished my claim to it to an RL-friend Warrior who used it as a stat stick, until Blizz introduced transmogs and I decided I had to have the Archimonde bow. Which meant soloing boring old Hyjal for weeks on end until I happened to get it. I really really hated Hyjal then. I mean, it took me a whole lot longer to get the Archimonde bow than to get the KJ legendary bow from Sunwell. Sigh.
In true WoW form...
You liked it - damn near loved it - then played it until you hated it.
The things we do for gear.
I disagree on both naxxramas in wrath and the tomb of Sargeras.
I have nostalgia for naxx since it was my first raid experience with my dad so I loved it. Naxx also was the perfect choice for an intro raid, and if it was too hard in wrath it would’ve been worse. So nerfing it was necessary.
Tomb of sargeras is a lot of fun to me when I used to do decently hardcore raiding in legion. IMO Tomb isn’t even the worst of Legion. That’s trial of valor, since it wasn’t even going to be in and they just added it in.
Everything else I agree with. Great video!
I enjoyed Mogushan Vaults and TotFW. I have fond memories of them both. I suppose Hiru is speaking more from a community perspective.
Battle for mount hyjal was designed like that to mirror the campaign in warcraft 3. Might not been the best but, for that purpose, I think it was pretty good (in wc3 you also wipe waves of increasing difficult as humans and orcs)
I think Tomb of Sargeras also suffered because nighthold was also amazing as a raid tier
I actually kind of really liked Tomb of Sargeras, at least Heroic (never did mythic). Had a lot of fun raiding with my guild that tier. Demonic inquisition was probably my favorite. I was playing Feral back when bleeds were very important so my damage always sucked on that fight having to constantly reset them but still a lot of fun.
Maybe it was just my server but everyone I knew LOVED trial of the Crusader.
I love ToS and i love legion, the last expansion me and the bois tryhard this game, we disbanded after we completed bfa 2nd tier... the game became shit....
So we migrated to FF14 and tryhard there LMAO we are jsut too adicted i guess
"LEAST GOOD", dont you mean worst?
maybe he likes them, just not as much.
Like he said "wow doesnt have bad raids, just ones less good then others"
I'd argue Hyjal is fun if you are a warlock and enjoy pressing seed of corruption (most warlocks).
As a destro lock, I would say I don't see the appeal. Besides, I see more demo and destro out than affliction XD
@@moscanaveia You don't need to be affliction for seed of corruption to do massive aoe damage lol
Great list
My issue with dragon soul was the bosses were really lame
A tauren servant of deathwing
An undead mage
A rehash void spawn guy
Throne of Four Winds, with Al'akir one of the best bosses ever, is in this list??? Legit.
Me at #10-#2: Whaaaat? Oh I liked that raid! 🥺
Me at #1: Oh. Yeah that makes sense that one isn't fun
haha i LOVED Mt. Hyjal.. such a cool and thematic raid. But i agree that a wipe should not have reset the wave counter.. that was a bit too much! But the Trash Fights themselves where amazing. Using the NPCs around for your advantage was just a unique experience (like pulling enemys into Thralls Tauren Warriors to get extra dps and dmg soak was so cool). Definetly in my top 5 raids :P
See Hyjal was really thematic and the first time you did it it was awesome.. but as a raid your grinding for gear (which given it the the raid with lots of the best gear pre Black Temple you did) doing it every week just was numbing.
I would argue that Dragon soul is also the worst end raid in MODERN content XD
Because it takes SOOO LONG to grind due to all the RP and the airship / spine fights being so slow even when you are overleveled.
True, although Hyjal has this exact same problem, too.
I think you’re slightly off on crucible of storms. Not only did many high-end competitive guilds not reclear it. Many of them chose to not do it at all. When you make content whose sole audience is your competitive players and they just don’t feel like it you’ve made a huge failure of a raid. I think saying many players liked it in any context is probably wrong. Place was awful. Rewards non-existent. Difficulty very contrived by ridiculous tuning and class stack requirements.
Hello Fen!
But eh, from the interviews given and talks about the raid from the highs ends after the fight, it was a major point they came up with that they loved the fight, but they would not be repeating it because it was far too difficult for such a reward, and it was not difficult in the way a fight like Kil'jaden was, but in an actually challenging way. It was ridiculously overtuned, which while fun the first time, is the main reason why no one would ever go back to it. Instead just doing normal/heroic for the items, and dealing with the fact they were a bit weaker then their mythic counterparts.
A fight they apparently did love, but hated the idea of ever having to do it again.
I love Tomb of Sargeras didn't know people didn't like it :(
I think Tomb of Sargeras would be a way more favorable raid in the eyes of the community if Fallen Avatar was the last boss.
Completely agree with this. If they left it with Avatar being the final boss, I would love that raid.
Man this reminds me how sucky WoW was in general. Everything is placed to purposefully waste your time.
Sanctum of Domination should be there, the only reedemable fact of this raid is Painsmith (great boss fight)
All of the bosses are excellent, except for the 7th one, I forgot the name, the dps check with the 3x stone circles you need to stand in when he explodes and then breaks them.
Lmao I remember being so pumped to see "mounted combat" in the wotlk trailer, thank God it didn't become a new meta or something. PvP would be horrendous.
Trial of crusader 0 trash. Battle for mount hyjal more trash then every other raid combined
hmm tomb of sargeras is like in my top 3 best raids ^^
Crucible of storms, or more particularly uunat the final boss, is widely considered to be one of if not the best final bosses in wow history by the high end raiders, who this raid was designed for. Crucible and uunat were meant to be cleared by top tier mythic raiders who’d already done all of mythic Dazar alor, it was not meant to be completed by non hardcore guilds. Go back and look at the coverage for that race to world first, all the casters and top guilds were giving it nothing but praise
Yep. Being one of the 40 alliance guilds worldwide to kill Mythic Uu’nat and go back there weekly to 1 shot him was a big highlight in my raiding past. The fight was fantastic. Too bad most of the people in my guild that did that fight are no longer playing, still in the same guild and all.
Wait people weren’t fans of Tomb of Sargaras? I absolutely loved it personally.
I remember when it was current, it was hated, but the second nostalgia set in it was beloved.
I really enjoyed the raid, it was a level of challenging we hadn't seen in a while, getting aotc was very satisfying.
@@acorr14 Yea, personally I loved the personal responsibility of having to soak multiple mechanics but I can see why someone wouldn’t like having to soak circles, soak a beam, then immediately soak circles again
@@TheOneWhoReportsForDuty Yeah. The defining phrase for ToS for me was "Soak or Die" which can be a fine mechanic. But quite a few mechanics in ToS were "Do this right or everyone dies".
It did feel amazing when you did the mechanic right though :)
And Yes, actually, wow does have some generally hated raids! Onyxia, Molten fucking Core much? Do you even research? oO AQ 40 wasn't exactly well liked either.: 15-30 minutes of trash, to make your way to a overturned angry bubble? I don't think Spine of Deathwing from a fan made DLC was well liked. You do know that Crapaclysm almost destroyed the company right? that's how well "liked" it was.
oO MSV Was a pretty fun raid to tank, IMO. Legion: Yes, heaven for bid people read up on fights and have some clue what they're doing. Oh heaven for bid they do that. Naxramas was...hit and miss. Some encounters sucked ass: Heigan the unclean spamming goup. being a "special" kind of thinking. Compare that to the 4 horesman where tanks got to play musical hard swap before the dots started hard crits, and hasted crush blows: where it's not just GPU luck: remember this expac came out when we still had fucking CD drives and had a good gaming computer cost a small fortune, and at least in my part of the US? We're rawdogged by cunty governors and shitty internet. Imagine trying to do heroic lootshit on DSL on mid graphic settings as a fucking tank... now? if I were to go back? knowing what I know now? sure...maybe. But ICC and TOC were way more to tank, so much so it wasn't even close....except for the LK encounter propper...mmmm constant AE spam and mobs everyfucking where..."fun"
Ok so umm why isn't Onyxia's lair on hear? Phase to: fear spam? Hi i'd like to ta...FUUCK MY LIFE FUCKING FEAR!!. Tank in the whole! whipe incoming from FUCKING FEAR!! I have ptsd from that fucking fight.
Tomb of Sargeras was objectively a good raid and i don't remember people openly disliking it when it was current.
the reason crucible didn't have much popularity is that many people were still progressing mythic BoD when it came out
How many people in the game do mythic progression? Is it maybe 10% of the playerbase? I don't fret over the high-performance community. I legit thought CoS was an awesome raid, with cool bosses and fun mechanics. But I also skipped 8.1 because I burned out during BfA and came back for 8.2, so I only got to play it on LFR with better geared people.
Dragon Soul was also the birth of LFR so I'm sure for many that puts a sour taste in their mouth. However, back then LFR was the only way I raided so I was quite happy with it at the time haha.
I was so proud of my old guild when we got heroic kil jaeden down after like 4 weeks of trying. Was indeed hard, but damn was it cool and a good raid
I don't think Cruicible of Stroms belongs here, it's a great example of how to do a "Mini raid" and Uu'nat as insane as a fight he was was a really creative and interestingly designed fight. The main reason it wasn't done that much was just.. everyone knew Eternal Palace was coming out in like two months and the gear wasn't that big an upgrade over BoDs and again with EP coming it'd be replaced pretty damn fast. So a lot of people just weren't willing to farm it.
Dragon Soul should probably be like No 2, it's the worst final raid by far. ToS Im mixed on being on the list (it IS the worst raid in Legion and KJ is a pretty badly designed boss where they seemingly forgot most classes can't just go SUPER FAST every 20 seconds) but im not sure if it's bottom 10 overall bad) but if it is it should be like 10 or 9.
Battle for Mount Hyjal totally deserves that No 1 spot though. It was cool once for the nostalgia and lore factor but then you realize.. someone actually thought an entirely wave based Raid was a good idea. Trash in raids is meant to be a break between bosses for you to unwind a bit not essentially the main event of the raid.
I really liked tomb of sargeras tbh
They changed kelthuzads voice actor when hey brought back naxx in Lich king. I hated that
Me too, sounded nothing like him. I liked they brought back his old voice actor for Shadowlands