343 Industries is like if someone bought an established bakery in town for a premium price, except that the new owners specifically hire bakers that hate the old bakeries cookies, and just want to make croissants instead. Except they also don't know how to make croissants well
Hahaha. I like a good bread analogy. Bungie was the very best croissant maker. Microsoft bought the recipe and then decided that ciabatta bread was more popular. They immediately stopped making croissants and never asked their customers if they wanted ciabatta bread. Microsoft must have been shocked when the general public rejected their ciabatta bread.
@@RipzCritical Bungie didn’t it give it up. Microsoft bought the rights to Halo before CE and created 343. Bungie didn’t even want to continue making Halo after 2, but had to out of contract obligations and the fact Halo 2 wasn’t a finished story.
When you have the original developers come back and making spin-off games and spiritual sequels you know you've messed up. Hopefully it doesn't turn into another "Rebel Moon" failure, but I am interested in seeing what the devs of Sentinel brings along with the developer Jar of Sparks.
@@tiger_lord305 While this is true, the games were still definitively Halo with maybe the exception of Reach, which was still good but you could tell they wanted to do something different. 343 has ripped off everything except their own franchise. Halo 4 was CoD, Halo 5 was Titanfall, Halo Infinite was the actual barebones corpse of a Halo game used to sell a ripoff of Fortnites battlepass and MTXs systems. They're awful.
And now Bungie is destroying their own franchise. It comes full circle these days. I just play old titles, I have given up on all of these new games. I can wait a year or two and buy them for $20 or less.
If you look outside the stuff produced by 343 themselves, Halo is still suffering. Halo RUclipsrs are struggling or have completely dropped Halo/trying to drop. Mega Construx Halo is basically nowhere to be found on store shelves. What good merchandise do we even have? 343 have almost accomplished their goal of finally killing Halo...
As an avid mega collector I can second this, it’s been years since I saw halo on store shelves, it’s not like the sets and figures are bad, it’s just a symptom of the health of the franchise 😢
@@isolategaming6572 Agreed, it's the reason I've stopped collecting. If you don't have the money to order the set on drop day on Amazon, you're going to be paying scalper prices. I've been selling off all my old Mega nowadays. I've still got the Sabre, a whole bunch of Warthogs, Rhino, Scorpion, Mammoth, Phantom, 2 Pelicans, and I don't know what else.
Halo has been under 343's control for 13 years (longer than Bungie had Halo I'll add), and what do we have to show for it? One poor remaster of an original game, one mediocre game, one bastardized port of the originals that took half a decade to fix, one terrible game, a decent RTS, and one mid game who's only redeeming quality is being more faithful to the originals than the previous two entries, and an absolute dogshit TV show. For fuck's sake, 343 is 3 for 3 on bad mainline Halo games and are the reason it died and hasn't been relevant in 13 years; all those "Halo Killers" from the '00s have nothing on 343i themselves
To be fair, I remember people abandoning Halo for Call of Duty even during Halo 3’s life. Although it wouldn’t be as dead as it is currently had good games been released since 343i took over, it still wouldn’t be as relevant as it was in 2007.
@@alexschneider8494 It doesn't need to be as relevant as Halo 3 was, or even as good. It just needs to be *good* period, and 343 couldn't even deliver on that. Also, CoD wasn't an Xbox exclusive so.. of course it was more popular. I guarantee with all the custom games, Forge maps, file sharing, etc. Halo 3 would've dominated the scene even more than it had if it wasn't exclusive to Xbox. And it's genuinely a shame that despite there being more people than ever playing games today, no games have ever bothered to learn from Halo 3 and include those social features that brought people together. That was the heart of Halo 3 and what made it special, and why no games can (well, they can, no one cares to though) replicate that feeling today.
Halo wars 2 was awesome, but it also wasnt really 343’s as another studio made the vast majority of it. (Which is probably why it’s a cut above the rest of modern Halo)
Unfortunately, the one thing that is hyper consistent with 343 is that they cannot leave things well enough alone. I would be VERY surprised if the Halo 1 remake doesn't include fundamental changes to the story and/or gameplay.
The general feeling around Halo honestly feels closer to the 'Post Endgame' feeling most people have with Marvel. It's still a beloved franchise by many, but the main story is done, people got closure and were satisfied with the conclusion. Now it's difficult to drum up interest or raise the stakes higher in a way that doesn't feel artificial. Halo 3 was the end of cannon for me personally. The Halo franchise was lightening in a bottle. Microsoft tried to catch that lightening again without realizing the storm passed years ago.
@@moonlightrobbery I mean, it's basically one of the last things said at the end of the trilogy. "For us, the storm has passed, the war is over." I've always seen it to have more meaning than just Lord Hood speaking in-universe on the end of the decades long existential war. The developers at Bungie knew their fight was over too.
They turned Cortana into a villain that killed entire human colonies, her name would be spoken by the people within the world of Halo in the same way we speak of Pol Pot and other genocide committers. Then the entire emotional conclusion of Halo Infinite was "I'm going to name myself after Neo-Stalin". I laughed as credits rolled
That's something they really failed to capture throughout the whole series. The Covenant wiped out most of humanity and then in the later games people like buck are just happy to be friendly with Elites for no reason when there should be a huge amount of hatred and distrust towards them. That would make for a much more interesting story. Instead he's like: 'these elites are our brothers', which is not only cheesy but total BS, you aren't going to let go of the past that easy.
@@nutyyyy halo 2&3. and explained very well that this was an act of desperation and convenience for both sides. The last halo three cutscene (no legendary) “I remember how this war started what your kind did to mine but you have my thanks for standing by him till the end hard to believe he’s gone.” Lastly ONI trued to undermine SOW at points but prefer them over hostile covenant remains
@@Nighterac The same reason they had Locke retconned into the universe and made the main character of Halo 5, the writers fundamentally misunderstood the characters, and nobody stood up and said "this isn't them"
I always found it funny that he transferred to 343 to have his way with Halo, and his way destroyed halo. Maybe just maybe Frank there's a reason a lot of your ideas were overridden by other guys at Bungie.
Consequences, you mean accomplices? Him, Kiki who is the executive producer of Halo 4 5 and the TV show, and Bonnie who was like CDPR before Cyberpunk released?
Maybe things could have worked out in some alternate reality where Bungie went back with Microsoft to publish Destiny because they allowed them to keep the IP. Idk, it’s sad all around
Bungie the original makers of Halo is now under the guidance of Herman Hulst at playstatjon who once upon a time directed Killzone. Time travel back to 2004 and tell your past self this
All the good Bungie employees quit or retired. None of the og members are still there they’ve all been replaced by millennials and gen x’ers that are obsessed with microtransactions and putting leftist garbage in their game
Now they're trying to turn halo spiritual father into yet another live service looter shooter with "quirky operatives" which hurts on a different level.
5:59 - A beloved story that was finished, btw. That's why "Halo 3" had as its tagline "Finish the fight." That's why the main antagonists, the flood and the covenant, were both defeated. That's why the conflict at the heart of the story was resolved. That's why there's a nice bookend where Chief goes back into the cryo pod. And that's why Bungie didn't make "Halo 4" themselves but instead made spin-offs. Chief's story was over. Simple as that. If they were going to make more Halo games, they needed to make spin-offs. Hell, I wouldn't have minded a new Halo trilogy that was a spin-off trilogy. Like, idk, "Halo: Swords of Sangheilios" or something where you follow an elite in trying to fight the remnants of the covenant and reunify the Sangheili empire or something. Could've worked. Could've even been an fps. Could've felt very fresh despite it and it didn't require them to pull some bullshit new apocalyptic threat out of thin air.
@@OneOnOne1162 Halo 4 was discussed during the development of Reach, but they decided not to pursue a new story that they couldn’t see through, not that it was out of the realm of possibility for them.
I feel exactly the same about starwars. A lot of the criticism and suggestions of different and unique directions they should have taken instead of making a poor soft reboot continuation are the same between the two. And just the same, each bafflingly refuses to try and do a new things despite the times they start to go that direction, like mandalorian season 1 or hunt the truth, they get praised only to immediately just revert to their same shit and don't try to make anything new again despite it getting great reception. It's like good reception literally hurts them, it would explain their decisions. The fact we havent gotten an elite or marine based halo game is absurd. Starwars is far better off though because it got andor. Halo fans have been asking for a gritty odst spinoff show or game for so long that snotty redditors make fun of the idea, starwars did the premise and, shocker, its the best thing to come out of the horrible new leadership. Big surprise.
@@tiger_lord305You seem to have knowledge of the public conversation ex-Bungie dev's had about them tossing around the idea of a Halo 4, but are wilfully neglecting that the reason they decided not to is the exact reasons why 343i has put Halo into the ground now.
I dunno... Story-wise, as far as continuations went 4 was pretty good. Instead of trying to hype up a new threat on par with the covenant or flood, they focused on exploring Chief as a character, and it felt like a natural continuation of Chief's story. Yeah, it introduced Prometheans and The Didact which kinda filled the role of the New Big Bad ^TM, but it was never the main focus like how the enemy factions were in the Bungie era, you can see that in how they were largely dealt with by the end of H4. They were, especially the Didact, supposed to be a reflection of the Master Chief and they fulfilled that role, story-wise, excellently. And I get it was controversial, it's a big change that occurred with a bunch of other controversial changes. But there was absolutely something there that, if 343 stuck with, could've elevated the 343 era into something special. Perhaps it wouldn't reach the heights of the Bungie era, but it could still have been great in it's own right, have something that allowed the studio to come out of Bungie's shadow as the studio desperately seems to want to do. Instead, they threw it all away with 5 and made neither fans of the Bungie era or Halo 4 happy.
@@moosemusicofficial Maybe Bungie shouldn’t have teased a shield world at the end of Halo 3 if they really wanted to bookend the franchise 🤷♂️ We did mull it over a little bit. We ended Halo 3 with, ‘Wake me when you need me.’ And we knew if we were going to launch into [Master Chief’s] story beyond Halo 3 that it was going to be a big trilogy,” Lehto says. But ultimately, Bungie’s thought process was “not all that dissimilar to what [343 Industries] actually ended up doing, but we knew that if we were to venture into that, it would have been so much more than what we would have been able to tackle contractually with Microsoft.” So tell me what Im being “willfully ignorant” of? Bungie came up with idea of Prometheans during Halo Chronicles. Halo fans have this weird romanticize portrayal of old Bungie as being perfect and martyrs of the industry. Joe Staten and Jason Jones were the brains and heart of Bungie Halo. Thats why Halo 3 story and writing is a step down in quality from CE and 2 because they weren’t as involved.
@@SushiJuice cry more than dumbass "it didn't outsell halo 3 (neither did reach but that 'doesn't count') so thats bad" "it sold massively less each time (shows a picture of a less than 5% drop in sales for each for reach-guardians) "this game has lost money (can't provide any evidence because nobody knows production cost or total revenue, no one but xbox and 343 knows what monthly revenue quota needs to be met but it's clearly 10x the upkeep costs) "the PR team quashing rumors is bad" "it makes sense to remake an old instead of making a new one (the same stream that showed off spartan exchange they explicitly stated they were working on halo 7) "343 has to earn goodwill from a community that never gave it to bungie until after they left" My favorite is when he only used space invaders as a comparison, ignores mario's and it's so odd to me the mainline mario games are allowed to fluctuate in total sales each game but not Halo Dude is seriously trying to say halo 3 could carry the xbox one and series comepletely ignoring the fact that the 360 was the best selling console before 3 even released and it's competitors fumbled the console themselves Completely ignores the fact that by sales 5 did carry the xbone exactly how halo 2 did, but that's bad because "reasons" This is one of the very few videos that you’ve ever made where the fact checking is complete and utter garbage It’s like you didn’t do anything but put a non halo playing opinion on an article about playing halo
Remember when Halo 3:ODST introduced firefight, and it was so popular that Call of Duty made their own PvE survival mode? Then Halo 4 tried to chase CoD and ironically dropped firefight while adopting an early "season" system? Halo went from setting trends to chasing them.
@@DrHotelMario I wasn't talking about Zombies. That's a different game mode. I'm talking about Modern Warfare 3's "Survival" mode, which had you fight increasingly difficult waves of enemies.
Firefight was not popular lol. Call of Duty had PvE modes far before Halo considered PvE, so it's the entire other way around. Further, and to make this one very simple: You can easily setup Google with the Search Parameters at "custom date" before 01/01/2011, and search "Firefight" with almost everyone disliking the concept, and those liking it claiming that it was "hard to find matches". You can easily see, in the era this exited, the concept wasn't just unwanted (and unwarranted), it was otherwise devoid of point. Besides, the concept mode you're thinking of isn't "Halo", it's Gears of War. Horde Mode, and (still) it was less popular than the basic competitive multiplayer. "The goal of Halo 2’s level system is first and foremost to help you find the most enjoyable games possible. Games that are neck and neck, where the only sure way to win is by playing above your abilities, be it through better planning, more focus, improved team communication, whatever. But it’s fun to not be so serious all the time. That’s what custom games are for, or the Training Grounds playlist if you don’t have enough Friends online to form a custom game. But we believe that games that challenge you to rise above your current abilities are the most enjoyable and the most rewarding." - Bungie 2004 - 2010. Just to iterate where Halo use to be focused around.
@@Elfangor567 Wave based gamemodes are older than halo I don't know why you think they got that idea from ODST over a decade later Didn't the first Gears of War game have that? you know, from 2006?
Really speaks to the strength of the original series that after more than 10 years of terrible games, there's STILL an audience wanting a good Halo game.
@@koichidignitythief7429 My point is they had it nailed for a short time with that beta. I don't think that's a problem with the fanbase to point out that things went bad after a good start. I also think it's a loud minority of fans that attack the devs as being lazy. I don't think that's true for the whole community though.
1.) Master Chief's story should've ended, flat-out, at Halo 3. He maybe could've appeared in spinoffs, preferably prequels, as a supporting character. ODST and Reach showed us Halo can make compelling stories without him. I don't know why people can't accept that a character has run their course in the limelight. 2.) One of the saddest things to watch is Halo RUclipsrs like HiddenXperia or Mint Blitz continually go "H-Halo is saved guys!" after 343 releases a patch regarding things that were supposed to be ready three years ago. Or "This next season of the TV show even better than the last!' when viewer responses have been it's as bad, if not worse, than the last.
Dude, do you not remember how halo 3 ended? Literally on a cliff hanger. Heading toward a mysterious planet. Hindsight being what it is, it’s easy to say that you wish they never made halo 4. But imagine if that was the last we saw of chief? That’s half life 3 levels of blue balls man, it needed a conclusion, the fact that you didn’t like the one it got doesn’t change the fact that halo 3s ending was anything but conclusive
343i has had Halo longer than Bungie, and they've done nothing but chop away at the pillar Bungie built. Is it any wonder that it's crumbling and about to collapse entirely?
Honestly at first during COVID I thought maybe halo infinites campaign was alright, by the time I'd finished it and then shortly after I was actually shocked how much of a nothing burger it was, and the multiplayer had so many issues for far too long.
@@scottwatrous the most painful part for me was the audio log collectables, I had nothing better to do so I collected them all, the story happening in the logs was more interesting than the campaign.
I still had fun with it. But the more I got into the story the more it revealed itself for what it is. Crap. What a lame ass story. A 3rd time utterly restarting the "plot" with little connection to the previous game. No real story to speak of. Anything that is interesting, or might be, is done off screen and explained instead of shown or played. Even the gameplay falls flat. The world... it's atrocious. Yeah, not a good game. MP is okay. It's possible to find some fun there. But... too much holding it back.
IMO the best way to rate a game is how memorable it is. How often you think about it. I think about red dead or a quote from read dead 1-3 times a week. When I booted up my ancient gen 1 Xbox one I forgot I not only purchased the game but beat it twice.
i wouldn't say it was him, he was there even with the bungie halo games. the 343 devs were incompetent and copied call of duty, that is what ruined halo..
@Ralphunreal True, Frank was at bungie as a media manager/blogger. Basically a low level job a bungie, then when 343 was being made he somehow jumped to the forefront in importance, becoming FRANCISE LEAD. He is at the very least 90% the reason Halo is in the state its been for the past 13 years. Frank o' Connor was the spinal cord, the back bone, of 343, most problems that Halo fans have had for the past 13 years ALL link to him.
No bro, you just don’t understand good storytelling. Those ancient mysterious aliens left mysterious remnants, and that cosmic evil parasite, you know those interesting story aspects. They get way better when you remove all mystery and you learn everything about them. It’s called storytelling bro
@@jams1942not defending Frank O'Connor, but Kiki Wolfkill and Bonnie Ross were also at the helm of the Halo dark ages. The three horsemen of the apocalypse.
This has probably been covered in novels or whatever, but I feel like a First Contact game would be fun. Maybe the first half of the game would be human v human fighting and then the Covenant surprise everyone, forcing them to unite. Kind of like the Flood reveal in the first Halo.
@@nemo-zl1vm It has lol I'd highly recommend Contact Harvest by Joe Staten, it's all about Johnson and humanity's first contact with the Covenant and why exactly the Prophets declared war on humanity. And before all that, the Insurrectionist stuff is basically an allegory for the War on Terror in the early 2000's. Really good read overall. The last few pages describing Johnson banging Al-Cygni's brains out is also a gem worth reading.
@@nemo-zl1vmtechnically halo wars is first contact due to harvest being the first planet that the covenant ever found from humanity, but yeah an actual first person halo game set on harvest would be dope as hell
I honestly don't think the speed of the older Halos is a big deal. Sure, on paper it doesn't sound good, but in practice the speed and pacing of the original trilogy is fantastic. I've known plenty of people who got introduced to Halo through the MCC who are used to faster shooters, and they all enjoy the classic Halo games. Some were even on the side of skepticism prior to trying them out, and changed their minds after playing. I know this isn't a universal thing, and some people will not like the slower speed, but I think it works well. The furthest I want to see a CE remake go is the make the movement feel closer to H2/H3, cause even for Halo standards, CE is a bit on the floaty side. I agree though that a CE remake is a good idea, so long as it stays true to the original game. It's a good way for 343 to get a handle on how to recreate that Halo feel and look in Unreal. It absolutely can be done too. Branching Sickness and Ringworld Alpha are some fangames being developed in Unreal, and while I can't speak on the game feel since they're not publicly available yet, they absolutely nailed the look of a Halo game. It can be done, but we'll see. There seems to be some pretty big studio restructuring going on along with the new management at 343, so it's a complete crapshoot if basically nothing changes, or if this is going to finally change things for the better.
Mind you knowledgehusk himself said he doesn’t like halo as much as other early shooters like quake so his tangent on the pace not working was probably his own personal bias. Halo is a great shooter and can be again slowness included.
@@ZSTE It does help, but I wouldn't say it makes the original trilogy feel "fast" either. Again, I think that, despite being on the slower side, the original trilogy still has expertly crafted pacing. You can build a game to whatever speed you like so long as the pacing is good. I've played plenty of excellent slow games, and plenty of bad fast games. Fast doesn't always equate to good, and I feel like making Halo too fast makes the game worse as a result.
Remember 343 is the character who betrays Master Chief (the player’s character) multiple times. It’s ironic they named the studio after this character… or was it foreshadowing
@@nagger8216 i honestly hate how they're just naming everything after Halo things why can't they be more original this would give the studio more of its own identity versus just being tied down to Halo. After a while just hearing them name everything they make after something from the HALO Series is just boring an unimaginative
@@EastlakeRasta7 Agreed. I also find it annoying because it permanently ruins those names for me forever. Like, I can never think about Guilty Spark without thinking of Bonobo Industries shitting itself in the corner.
@@nagger8216 plus this would give them an opportunity to make an original Ip to prove themselves as proper game devs along with the freedom to be more creative with this original Ip versus just Halo games like I get it you make Halo games but obviously you could do more but apparently not same thing can be applied to the coalition
This joke was made a ton before but the fact that the studio is named after the one character that betrays Master Chief multiple times will never stop being depressing and at the same time funny.
its interesting to note that every 343 game also feels like different companies made them lol. Halo 4 came out felts more like a cod clone than Halo specifically, than 5 which was more unique feel, and than Infinite which was just nostalgia bate, but all 3 of these games really have in common is sprint being a core feature. Story wise, game play wise, and aesthetically all are somewhat different from one another.
That's because they effectively are. After every major release, 343 would see a massive wave of layoffs and new hires. Almost the entire team who made Halo 4 left shortly after release, leaving only the Spartan Ops team to make Halo 5 (if you're wondering why Halo 5s story has almost nothing to do with 4, that's why.) Then again after Halo 5, Brian Reed, (Spartan Ops and Halo 5s main writer) got the boot with someone new taking his place. 343 as a studio ebb and flow with its staff. It's always been this way. The games lack cohesion because 343 itself isn't
It wasn't just 343, Microsoft is to blame as well. They basically pulled a Konami and decided that actual developers are 'too expensive' and tried to make an engine out of contractors, despite having TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS. All so execs and shareholders could leech more money for themselves. Not only is this anti-consumer, it's anti employee.
People need to get it through their heads that Microsoft is 343, 343 is Microsoft. They are one and the same. Although my blame for Halo's downfall comes down to Microsoft, 343, Bungie, COD, the industry and world changing, and the fans.
It’s gotta be really hard to keep any classic video game franchise relevant for a long amount of time because so many times awesome game franchises fall off hard. In this day in age, every developer is more focused on the bottom line than making a good game and that’s what killed so many of these franchises.
Absolutely correct. Profits take priority over quality for most studios and publishers. Say it louder for the people blaming it on “DEI hires” and the “woke agenda.”
Half Life is older than Halo by a few years, yet it remains so damn relevant. Age means nothing, you just need to care for your community, adhere to your legacies first, and they'll bring rookies in.
no it isnt a good idea. We already got CEA wich was trash incarnate. I dont want to see "new" lore and stuff in CE that doesnt makes sense. JUST MAKE A GOOD GAME INSTEAD OF KILLING OLD ONES. 343 literally hired people that hate halo and declines ex bungie devs. They literally want all the fame for themselfs alone and eradicate anything old.
The only reason people "think" it's a good idea is because a Halo Content Creator claims it is. Otherwise, the Halo CE remake, if without a proper CE balance multiplayer, would entirely tank and envelop the same typical problems we have today -- Halo was a piss poor 'casual' game, and at that, Halo before 2010 was an entry where skill was the only factor of being good or winning. The amount of 'luck' carried into you per match was only symbolic of your capabilities of using the controller, and although certain things could happen "with luck", someone skillful would expressively be able to repeat this over and over again. That being said, definitively the problem that exists here is that the Halo Community (the ones on youtube) never wanted Halo. The ones who want "unreal engine" wanted graphically impressive "xbox first party", while the others have this weird belief that the 'only reason halo failed is because it isnt on unreal engine' (stupid, i know). In reality, a campaign release for Halo has not sold (at all) since before Bungie left Halo. Hell, the primary reason Bungie left Halo was because their campaigns were not the spotlight, the multiplayer was. Truth be told, it doesn't matter "what" remake it is, it matters how the multiplayer is balanced, how it's designed, the matchmaking solutions and the focus on a fair, competitive environment within a skill progression matchmaking solution, and specifically if precision weapons are brought back to being "primary weapons". Otherwise, no matter what 343 does, it'll fail, because the overwhelming majority of people who "will play the game but refuse to" simply never wanted what the Halo Community (particularly on youtube) wanted. Many on youtube wouldn't even touch a multiplayer Halo if they were paid to, and they speak (dominantly in this case) for the youtuber, who typically thinks that their community speaks for the majority (while forgetting that their community refuses to play any halo games multiplayer, besides maybe reach & 4). That being the case, if they were to release a Halo CE "remake", it'll probably fail. Not because they couldn't do it right, but because they'll focus "too much" on community, and the community will lead them down a path of total failure, and then blame them for the fact that no one wants to play it (and probably spin a "they made this for esports" like they tend to argue, despite 99% of the game focusing around a non-competitive non-multiplayer player).
@@anonymous7564If balance was key for Halo's MP success and thus it's survival then Halo 4 and 5 would have been record-shattering games. They weren't because when the campaign sucks the community piles up on the game creating a hostile environment and thus not enough outsider interest to attract more people.
I honest to god think all Halo needs to do to find success again is to be itself. The original trilogy of games has aged _remarkably_ well and is still a blast to play. Not even the original servers being shut down has stopped fans from enjoying them. It's a rare series I think truly had something for everyone to enjoy. It was a shooter with its own competitive scene, but thanks to custom games and Forge it was also a wacky party game you could play with your friends where what you were able to do was limited only by your imagination. ID Software did a killer job rebooting DOOM, and while it's not as prolific as it was in its prime it's still a 100% respectable revival that's beloved by fans. I can only hope Halo gets similar treatment someday.
I was thinking the same thing. Halo needs the same treatment Doom got. ID would be my first choice of developer but I don’t think that’s ever gonna happen. I think Halo could still work it just has to be true to what made Halo special.
My first Halo was Reach, I remember people telling me my Halo wasn’t as good as the first ones but I loved it just the same, I think people look back on it pretty fondly now comparing it with the most recent releases.
they look back on it fondly but it objectively was the start of all the negative changes that would ruin the franchise. don’t care if cod halo was your first, it was also the beginning of the end
@@rabbitrun777 I disagree, Bungie experimenting with the Armor Abilities (which was basically an early prototype for Destiny) in a spinoff didn't give 343 the license to make the mainline games that way. If 343 saw Reach as a genuine evolution of Halo's gameplay and not an experiment, then I don't think they ever understood Halo to begin with.
You forgot to mention that Infinite was supposed to be the Xbox Series' big launch game, but 343 bungled the development so much that it didn't launch until a year after the Series hit stores. So the Series launched without a flagship game that would sell the console, and they are currently losing to PS5 by a ratio of at least 2:1 (probably much more by now)
right because its all 343s fault and not the corporate suits who set unreasonable release dates for things and have no idea how long it actually takes to make games on the scale they want. they should never have announced infinite until it was basically done in fact that's how all game announcements should work
@@exilestudios9546 Yeah, that is true. That first gameplay video was embarrassing. It really shows that Phil Spencer isn't the gamer he claims to be if he thought that was appropriate to show to the public.
@@exilestudios9546agreed. Diamond in the rough comment among a sea of “343 killed my childhood, I knew it because number company bad and Bungo good.” At the end of the day, every fuck up comes back to Microsoft. In this day and age, an unfinished product shat out is pretty much guaranteed to come from an out-of-touch publisher having no clue what they’re doing or spite for the previous group (Which is a thing that happened at 343 on the story side). And it’s not limited to Halo. The corporatization of Minecraft. The buying of studios to kill them or sit on the franchise indefinitely until a middling release. Xbox should have been forced out of Microsoft’s hands long ago, or at least Microsoft itself split in another way.
@@SpartanNat I agree. When it comes to Halo, all the blame always gets lumped on 343, but people conveniently forget that 343 is a subsidiary of Xbox. One bad game can be blamed on the studio, but a continuing string of failures points to a lack of competent oversight from the publisher. Halo is Xbox's flagship franchise. They should have done a much better job of cultivating 343, the studio they built to make Halo games.
Saying “Big Team Battle Halo’s bread and butter” just gets you yelled at in any conversation. It’s ridiculous because the Warthog defines Halo. Halo was only made to cater to the Warthog. Halo is best as combined arms sandbox.
My decision to walk away from Halo after Bungie moved on is yet again validated. Halo 3 and Reach provided a supremely satisfying ending and feeling of closure respectively to the series, and I didn't want to risk sullying the strength of such strong send-offs with the zombie franchise that Halo has become under 343's ineptitude.
The “foreigners aren’t human” crowd ruined halo lore, one of the most irredeemable thing Frank did to the story. It removes the narrative irony that the covenant are literally killing their own gods, and that Truth knows the truth.
@@borttheattorney6012halo 3 itself kept the humans are forerunner plot. Just coz frank O'Conner was ignorant of basically everything about halo doesn't mitigate the majority of the bungie lore
The mistake that companies, lawmakers, big studios, and generally "Old Adults"/"Boomers" make constantly about video games is that they're just a product. A creation to be made and shipped out. But video games aren't just... something you can make on an assembly line- the piles and piles of shovelware prove that falsehood. No... Video games are much more like an interactive painting. They are at their very core, a collaborative work of art, with each artist adding a brush stroke, each programmer cleaning up the ink lines below the color, and each actor and scene stage being the vibrant paints that draw you in on first glance before you can appreciate the work that went into a beautiful painting. Garbage in, garbage out, if you don't respect the artistic process of making a video game and just smash things together and expect a masterpiece, well, you're as foolish as whoever let those infinite monkeys start banging on the typewriters, expecting an award-winning manuscript.
Absolutely spot on mate, games are now what, 95% shovelware, and even the non shovelware games are hit & miss, mostly miss. Just look at the Switch Eshop, 99% garbage and even loaded with porn software.
I don't see why the gameplay of a CE remake staying faithful would mean "it didn't age well" as if Halo 3 isn't still the most played game in the series to this day and it also adheres to the same gameplay principles that CE and all of Bungie's games (not just Halo) did. Halo being slow wasn't a problem, it was a choice and a good one. Why do you want another super speedy that moves at mach speed like every other game out there instead of something unique that would work perfectly well in modern day? Who cares if the movement speed in Halo is slow? The speed of encounters and fights are the important part, and Halo keeps those fast-paced. Why must every game play the exact same for morons to be happy? Just let the series die if you're not going to make Halo Halo. Not everything needs to continue on forever. It's fine for something to have an ending.
It's clear that 343's original plan, the groundwork they laid with Halo 4, was thrown out the window after mixed fan responses. The more character driven storytelling, exploring Chief as a person and how being a soldier his entire life and losing people around him affected him personally, getting to know the man under the armor. Lasky and Palmer and Thorn were welcome additions to the cast that got shuffled away into the background. The Didact was obviously meant to be the main villain of the trilogy, they could have done a lot of cool stuff with him but they killed him off in a comic book instead because, again, mixed reception. Some people (like myself) thought fleshing out the Forerunners was cool and a nice payoff after knowing so little about them, others didn't like that the mystery was gone. Looking at Chief as a person and not just a nearly silent protagonist for the player to project onto was welcomed by some, and upset others. Some people thought killing off Cortana was a beautiful but tragic moment, others were mad she was gone. 343 could not please both groups, and instead of just going all-in on their original plan and at least telling a coherent story that SOME people would like, they got cold feet and made a disjointed mess that almost nobody liked.
it seems like an attempt to move the franchise forward to something new, but as we found out with the SW sequel triology a lot of fans just wanted more of the same. The studio execs get scared of losing fan/sales and immedately cave in, resulting in a franchise that cannot move on from "Chief fighting the covenant on a Halo"
Nah, exploring the mystery of the Forerunners would've been fine if they weren't racist space Voldermorts. Like really, there's no reason whatsoever for humanity to be the Reclaimers or for the Covenant to genocide humanity in 343's bastardized version of the story. It honestly makes me wish we got a Bungie-lore Didact that hated the Covenant because of their war with humanity, and Chief has to stop him from waging another war against those Covenant species for revenge since the conflict is already over. Would've been infinitely more interesting.
Maybe this is an unpopular take, but why not just press the delete button on Halo 4 and onward? Split the timeline or something. Diverge and tell a new story while taking constructive criticism. Kind of like what Runescape and WoW are going through with OSRS and SoD.
Let not the voices of those unworthy to see th glory you've bestowed upon a weary traveler. Be with peace and know your tales will echo throughout the ages.
One of my favorite ice cream parlors was bought out by a large corporation a few years ago. The large corporation horribly mismanaged the business. Now their location is locked up, it has plywood over the windows, and there's a six-month old notice from their landlord warning about unpaid rent pinned to the door. But, the original owners took their money from the buyout and opened a new location which still serves the same good ice cream. Anyway, not bringing this up for any particular reason
The worst part is that there are artists and designers who are in 343 that really know what they are doing and clearly are passionate about Halo, but the top management simply have utterly no clue where the magic is.
As someone who grew up with the Bungie era games, it truly hurts how far this franchise has fallen. It was almost inconceivable to think, back then, that HALO of all games would drop THIS low. You have yourself a widely popular science fiction video game franchise that is loved by many, which is responsible for some of the best gaming memories people have, which had an entire culture developed around it and somehow the company who was put in charge of it decides to just... not do anything that made it successful. Many times intentionally. They didn't have to change the artstyle, or the music, or the lore, but they went ahead and did so because they were so far up their own asses trying to leave their "mark" on the franchise that they somehow didn't see that the way to leave your mark is to respect what was already there. It is a growing sentiment in the fanbase that nothing post-Bungie is canon, with 343's era being little more than corporate-funded fanfiction, and I'm personally all for that view. I love the idea of a CE Remake, I've wanted a proper Resident Evil/Dead Space style one for a LONG time. But knowing that 343 is developing it - I have absolutely no faith in it. They'll probably pay respect to the surface level things (artstyle, music - which tbf are still important in their own right) but shit the bed when it comes to things like the story, gameplay and lore by shoving sprint into the game and including their shitty Forerunner lore in terminals or something. Best case scenario? Shelve the franchise. It's already been beaten to death beyond the state of recognition. Unless there's a reboot post-Halo 3, there's no real hope for the series.
The only thing I liked about Halo Infinite, is that the Marine Pilot guy actually revealed himself as a civilian, or pirate, or whatever, but then still stuck by Chief.
Man, I remember when I was in high school going to a midnight launch party of Halo 3 at a local video game store. One of my friends even got the special edition with a mini Master Chief's helmet because it was his favorite franchise. It even inspired him to study and join the video game industry as a developer after he graduated from college. Seeing the downfall of the Halo series is sad, no wonder he said it stopped after 3.
I got some friends who were QA Testers for Infinate and while, at the time they could't say anything specific, it was pretty clear that management was a mess. A lot of this was done durning covid and the company hated allowing work from home. They would need to do repeatedly download of different versions of the game in the same day and it seemed like the relationship between testers and programmers was made intentially hostile by the company. Tests get penalized if they don't find bugs, and programmers are penalized if bugs are found. I remember them talking about a different game they were working on, where it seems half the core development team all died; including the lead writer and lead developer, so nobody really knew what was going on with the story.
Covid hit in march of 2020. The original release date was fall of 2020. Past Halo games would've been prepping public betas when covid hit. The game wouldn't have been good or ready whether covid hit or not.
@@Spid3y_69I was on the fence with 4, but my viewpoint was solidified when I got burnt out of multiplayer after around 100 hours. I STILL play the OG trilogy, Reach, and ODST religiously, but I haven't gotten past the 2nd mission in H4 since MCC released. It's embarrassing, really.
I think the biggest issue with Halo 4 story-wise, looking back on it, isn't so much that it was different to the previous games, rather, 343 didn't commit to 4's story with the rest of their entries. If they properly continued the story with H5, I genuinely believe that Halo would've been much better off. If splitscreen was going to die, for whatever stupid reason, then you may as well make the story more emotional as opposed to being more akin to an action movie like how Halo was in the Bungie era. Instead, they made nobody happy with a soft-reboot with 5 that undid a lot of the changes 4 made and character assassinating Cortana in the process.
You cant build up a fight between Cheif and Cortana for a whole game (5) and have it be resolved off screen before the start of the next game... like WTF.
Frank O’Connor as director managed to ruin the reputation of Halo incredibly quickly. It’s quite astounding how much he sabotaged the series by just not knowing anything about the series he worked on prior
You think the death of a "halo engine", is "a good thing"? ... wtf? Yeah, know what makes a healthy game industry? Every single effing game being made on the same engine. Totally.
Honestly? As someone who grew up around Halo parties and stuff? I wouldn’t be upset if they let me grab ledges. Sprinting? Nah. Makes vehicles less valuable. Armor Abilities? Maybe if they’re power up pickups like the old Cloak and Overshield. *Maybe.* ADS? Nah. Feels weird for Halo. But ledge grabbing? I meaaaan…Would be fun to sneak up on folks on maps like Hang ‘Em High or Boarding Action.
This conundrum would not have ever been a thing had Halo 4 simply been a true sequel to 3. Slow changes would've been accepted, and just maybe the innovative changes over the course of 3-4 games could've been industry leading rather than just copy and paste sprint and clamber and say "Hey! Our game is modern!"
I actually quite enjoyed the "slower" aspect of Halo CE. In sequal Halo games, 2 expecially, the time to kill on harder difficulties was insanely short. Short of rocket flood, I never insta-died in Halo 1 just from peaking around a corner. Not even talking about the sniper Jackals either, just the Elites with their duel wielding could kill you before you took 3 steps.
4:45 no, because a spin-off is untested territory, it wouldn't generate as much money as the famous green guy. They just want to stick to something that's proven, no risk and it's the easiest way to milk the fans
@@NewtNewt117 I am talking about in the perspective of the people in charge of making the decisions, it was a huge release after the 5 years gap, of course they're going to get a new game for master chief instead of a spinoff
The real problem with spinoffs is the dev time required to create the spinoff. If you give the spinoff to another developer, the main developer can work on the main series, thus the spinoff has no major impact. I'd argue all campaign should be done as a spinoff, with multiplayer being done in-house and in conjunction with certain affinity. This way, you can have "the story" be separated from the multiplayer, and the multiplayer being a tailored focus around the core elements that defined Halo in the past, without becoming some jumbled mess of "halo needs to be casual" every five seconds. A quick reminder to all others, Bungies intention around matchmaking was to be a competitive game (far before games even considered doing this): "The goal of Halo 2’s level system is first and foremost to help you find the most enjoyable games possible. Games that are neck and neck, where the only sure way to win is by playing above your abilities, be it through better planning, more focus, improved team communication, whatever. But it’s fun to not be so serious all the time. That’s what custom games are for, or the Training Grounds playlist if you don’t have enough Friends online to form a custom game. But we believe that games that challenge you to rise above your current abilities are the most enjoyable and the most rewarding." - Bungie 2004 - 2010.
It's always amazed me why fans of this game are so obsessed with this particular green dude. Why not make another man in armor who doesn't even show his face. And even Bungie themselves have proven that you can make another Spartan, or even a regular dude, just as good as Chief. Fans of this game (if they still exist) need to let the main character go. It's time for him to retire.
There's been a few times over the past 5 years where I've introduced the Halo trilogy to people who've never played it. We played it the classic way with drinks, snacks, and split screen. They all told me Halo CE was neat but weren't the biggest fan cuz of how loose and floaty everything was. But when they played 2 and 3... my god were they hooked. So much so that they went on to play all the other games games on their own until they got to Halo 4 and 5 and were like, "wtf just happened and why does this suck?" Classic Halo still works for modern audiences. It's just modern Halo that doesn't.
I guess Halo is like Star Wars in more ways than one - the original trilogy was and will always remain the best the franchise ever did, and everything after was just regurgitating the same formula for diminishing returns.
Reach and Rogue One fit pretty well in the analogy. A prequel to the original trilogy, mostly well regarded overall, but absolutely loathed by a vocal minority.
I mean I grew up on Prequel Era SW, and I will freely admit ROTS is my favorite SW movie, but your point is mostly valid. The small difference I’ll suggest is that at least with SW, the Prequels were made by the original creator and you can still feel his vision, oversight, and passion in them. The 343 Halo trilogy may as well be called generic space shooter number 347 because none of what made the Bungie games great is present, pretty much at all. The only thing I’ll give to 343 is that I believe they did a good job of telling Chief and Cortana’s story in 4, felt like a great send off for their relationship. Everything else 343 did in 4 and has done since has been trash.
Old Halo was amazing because it was so unique from other FPS games (like how you couldn’t even run or aim down your sights and the button layout was so different lol)
I used to play halo CE in the mall with my best friend at the time, coolest thing ever. I wished for it, but never thought I would get it, but then my beloved grandmother bought me an xbox with halo and it was the best thing ever. I played it non-stop with my friends and we had hell of a time playing splitscreen, coop campaign and ofc solo.
Same, never got an Xbox though, had to play halo on pc later, and halo 2 at a friend's. Read the books and was fascinated by the universe .Come halo 3 and I was once again looking at all I could find about it, but my parents would never buy me the 360 so, I had to buy it myself. Played so much doubles, campaign, late night with friends, got my h3 50 in doubles and team slayer etc.... Then came reach... Played it for three weeks, back to halo 3.
i hate how inconsistent the lore is. before infinity in the Kilo Five books Infinity had forerunner shields and engines and colony of Engineers full of Forerunner knowledge. then couple of scrap metal Brute cruisers take it down and its gone from the game.
Well, the Infinity was still fleeing The Created and probably had little to no shields. Not to mention the fact that they were attacked shortly after exiting Slipspace and had barely any time to react
There is a fan base for the advanced movement, especially if we consider you are meant to be a super soldier, not a lump of clay. Halo needs a good story arc, it has been missing one for 12 years.
A couple points: •Microsoft was going to let Halo go, but Bonnie Ross stepped in with the proposal to form 343i and helm the future of Halo. •Halo Infinite was actually well recieved across the board at launch; including amongst the fan base (with a couple of relatively minor gripes as exceptions). The dropoff came when it was it was announced that season 1 would be six months long, and it became apparent that season 1 wasn't going to receive any substantial technical or content updates. Don't forget; Halo Infinite had over 20 million players at launch; interest is still there, and infinite had the potential to truly capitalize on that again.
It had over 20 million players at launch because the multiplayer is free to play and the campaign was released day 1 on gamepass. You really can't trust the playercount if a game is on gamepass. How many millions of people played the campaign but never would've bought it? I did. I checked out the campaign, played for 20 hours, uninstalled it, all without buying the game. Had it not been on game pass, I simply would've just not played it.
@@doghat1619 the point isn't about sales, it's about interest. And regardless if it's F2P or on Gamepass, 20 million players is huge, and it shows that Halo (as a franchise), still has general appeal and interest within the broader gaming market.
@@Mythreial How quickly would that 'interest' dry up if people had to pay 60 dollars to try the game? People are interested in a previously console selling franchise going free to play. How quickly did the 20 million players disappear? Were they still around a month later? A free to play game needs player retention to possibly make money.
@@doghat1619 that is obviously the point I was making... As is why I said that Infinite had the potential to capitalize on that interest, but they dropped the ball. The lack of content and technical fixes within the first season, caused interest to severely drop.
Halo 5 was also very well received and had the 2nd best player retention in the series. This was while the Anti Xbox hate brigade was at its peak and with how far behind the xbox one was compared to the ps4 while the 360 was in the lead and Infinite was on PC.
I dont remember having a single moment of what anyone would classify as "fun" after Reach. It has always felt like a slog from 4 onward. There were no interesting moments. There was nothing but infinite boredom. I'm glad I let go and let it die. Now others need to do the same. Remember what Halo was, not what it's become.
How I would have did It.. -ODST2 -Johnson spin off -Infinite (but more biomes and add a DMZ mode) -ODST3 -Than a continuation of the chief story with new lore
They really just need to put MCC on Playstation. Nobody is going to buy "remade" halo 1 for $70 when they could have all the bungie halos for a lesser price.
I'd argue if they made a better remake for Halo 1 while also adding new features like Forge, new maps, new weapons, etc that you could have a big success.
@@NewtNewt117 It's not going to be better though, it's going to be Halo Infinite 2 with a story that completely butchers the original's. And don't even get me started on how I know they'll fuck up the level design.
@@nagger8216 I really don’t think they would completely change the story, it’s a remake not a reboot I get “343 bad” but let’s not go around making assumptions they are going to remake Halo 1 and change/butcher the story, they already did a Halo 1 remaster and they didn’t change the story they did however unfortunately butcher the graphics but considering they were rushed by Microsoft to the point where they just had to reuse Halo Reach assets i don’t blame them.
@@NewtNewt117before we get on the 343 protection parade, I want to reiterate they had not made one decent halo game in their entire history. Halo Wars 2 was made by Creative Assembly so don’t get to use that excuse either. People are right to not have faith in any 343 project.
343 half assed all their ideas then gives up on it. The basic premises for 4 and 5 isn't bad in a vacuum, even Infinite, but the executions was so safe that the stories failed to hit what they were trying to do. The worse thing is how 343 is afraid to commit to any story that they just give up and keep doing soft reboots, breaking any audience investment into the storylines. 4 was still the best 343 game because they actually tried to do something different with the story, humanizing Chief. They didn't go far enough, but they still gave us some touching moments. Then 5 came along that threw all the stuff 4 was setting up out the window along with all the emotional investment we had in 4. Then Infinite threw everything previously out again.
I think we just have to accept that nothing is ever gonna strike a chord like Halo did back in the day. It's just an era of gaming that's now over. I'm just grateful there's still folks playing the OG games on MCC so they can still be experienced today.
Love that 343 is still getting roasted for Infinite over 2 years later. They think they’ll just make another game in a couple years and people will forget how much they fucked the franchise. Don’t ever let them forget.
after the acquisition of halos main competitor and the failure of the show i think Microsoft is just gonna scrap the franchise since they dont need it anymore. they already have a successful multi media franchise with fallout so why would they risk more money with a failed IP like halo
I think 343 completely disregarding forge and community custom games during the era where Minecraft and Roblox were dominating the gaming scene was the biggest reason Halo failed. They tried to make a CSGO style competitive shooter when people just want to play fat kid or race maps with their friends.
The Star Wars comparison is pretty apt because for fans of the lore they explained a lot of stuff that should’ve been left unexplained, like midichlorians. I wish 343 respected the source material enough to understand that the forerunners aren’t interesting if we know everything about them.
The fact that they just made Forerunners again (Precursors) because they had explained everything about their shitty interpretation of them like what shit the Didact took the morning the Halo Rings fired just proves that point And then they pulled that shit AGAIN in Infinite with the Endless
My recipe for remaking Halo: CE is pretty simple: Get 16 or so veteran game devs to form a core team. Ideally ones who haven't been paying attention to new Halo in a long, long time and haven't been 'tainted' by anything from the 343 era. Pay for a 2 week retreat for all those devs to go live in together in a house or two with nothing but 2001 era Xboxes, controllers, Pizza Hut and and Mountain Dew on deck, The Matrix, Alien, Predator, 2001: A Space Odyssey on DVD, and of course the consoles rigged up on LAN. Get everyone playing the game over and over, having multiplayer sessions long into the night, trying to pull of tricks, trying to beat Legendary, and generally immersing themselves in the Lore. Have them watching Quicktime videos of the original warthog jousting. Reading the lore theories on H.B.O. and just create a time capsule where they can start really geeking out about the original game, as it existed, in its context. Get them copies of The Fall of Reach on paperback. Reading the books and the smell of the pulp and the visions of warthogs and marines from the game flashing in your head. As they're immersed in all that, they can spend time talking about "what do I really wish this game had? What stuff would be really cool to include? If I had unlimited budget to add things to the game, what would I want to see? And what bits of lore don't make sense? What areas do I wish we could see that were cut? Then after they've started to form some pretty strong internal motivations and have their own ideas, introduce these devs slowly to whatever archives exist of the development materials from the original Bungie days. All the concept art, cut content, level descriptions, story and lore. Give them the Game Bible that we all theorized about back in the day. After that, keep these time-capsule homes active. As new groups of devs come on board, send them off to re-live this same experiment. Have them playing the original for what it was and how it was. Get them excited and curious for what we saw when we first played it. So that they can join the team having had that same Halo Boot Camp. That mindset and environment, IMO, would build a team hungry to create something that properly captures the feeling of Halo: CE and would have the true potential to create a re-make that both honors the original in tone and feel but also makes it a game closer to what many of us wish it was when we were playing. A team without that core foundation will turn any remake into something more like Infinite 2. A team without that collective experience to ground them will start going off in wild directions, making the game into something it fundamentally should not be. Of course 343 and/or MS probably doesn't give a shit about that. 343 has demonstrated that it largely lacks people at the core who care about Halo in a way where they want to capture the magic. They only want to capture the numbers and hype, but fundamentally don't understand how to do that.
343's writing for Halo always felt like a fanfiction to me. Red plasma swords and elites integrating into a human-controlled universe are literally ideas I used in my own Halo fanfics in like middle school (around when H3 released) Don't even get me started on "The Banished" or "The Created"
It's Frank's shitty fanfic with his edgy DeviantArt OCs. They're still afraid to kill off (for good) his OC by the way, FFS. Dies, gets revived in a comic, dies again, revived in a coloring book (lmao) and he's still alive when he should have been killed off 12 YEARS AGO. It's as bad as WoW writing
@@NightShinerStudio I just wish it didn't come at the cost of trying to powercreep the Covenant though with stupid statements of "the Covenant nearly wiped us out but never got close with the Banished". 343 has a bad tendency with comparing their new factions to old ones to one-up them and it annoys me to no end
@@NightShinerStudio I know, but they still had to conform to what 343 told them to do. They still had to follow their lore. Hence why you get the legendary ending of Anders finding a Guardian to tie in to Halo 5. The Banished were always going to be in Infinite regardless since they were a 343 idea. People just happened to like them because the alternatives were complete garbage It's just funny because they suddenly remembered Brutes exist
If you truly went over everything 343i has fucked up over their time with Halo you could have a video 12 hours long. Hell, lets talk about the time 343i employee Snickerdoodle joined my game of MCC just to have their friend they joined with accuse me of bad shit before leaving. I have video proof too so I'm not just making shit up.
@@jacobdearman4964 I can't link it directly because of RUclips's spam prevention but it's on my channel. It's titled "Harassment from a 343i employee and their friend". The video is edited with a memey feel and wasn't made by me but rather someone else I was in the lobby with because frankly I was too surprised when this happened and forgot to record it myself. The gist is I was in a custom games browser game in MCC when suddenly snickerdoodle and another player joined at the same time. The other player called me a p*do then they both left. I look at their profile and lo and behold both that guy who called me a p*do and Snickerdoodle were in an Xbox Live party together. There is being unprofessional and then there is this. Also of note is as soon as I started talking about it online on places like Twitter and such my account on the Waypoint forums(the now dead official 343i forums) was locked without reason given and I was banned from the Halo Twitch chat. So take that as you will.
15:39 This sums up classic Halo in some ways, it is supposed to be slow, that's a large part of what made it work. On top of this majority of the weapons were projectile based in Halo CE and 3 which is again, a large reason so many still adore the multiplayer in those games, the slow movement with projectile weapons are what made Halo unique, it made positioning matter, it's why some people say classic halo is like chess. When you add fast movement and hitscan weapons it becomes just another shooter like any other, it looses its identity, positioning becomes less important because you can always just quickly sprint away out of danger, and targets at a distance are too easy to hit because you don't need to lead them due to hitscan which limits map design options. Hitscan with fast movement is exactly what Halo has been stuck with since Reach, and on top of that 343i focuses on Halo being a competitive shooter when it was always intended by Bungie to be a social one. So overall, 343i has been tuning halo to fight in an over saturated market of hitscan competitive shooters from the beginning rather than embracing what Halo originally was, a slow social shooter with projectile weapons to compliment the movement speed and gameplay that rewarded you for holding power positions like chess.
Halo should be made like how ID makes Doom... Small team dedicated team that care about Halo. There is no reason Halo can't be as good as an ID Software game.
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I like it when you put the ad at the very start
Yes, I'd love to have yet another thing tracking my location 24/7. How did you know?
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consume
1:16 That's Mr. JOHN Halo, sir!
343 Industries is like if someone bought an established bakery in town for a premium price, except that the new owners specifically hire bakers that hate the old bakeries cookies, and just want to make croissants instead.
Except they also don't know how to make croissants well
If you look at the team, it’s literally an entire group of rainbow haired liberal women that hate men.
Hahaha. I like a good bread analogy. Bungie was the very best croissant maker. Microsoft bought the recipe and then decided that ciabatta bread was more popular. They immediately stopped making croissants and never asked their customers if they wanted ciabatta bread. Microsoft must have been shocked when the general public rejected their ciabatta bread.
ohh I remember this analogy back in the day. It's crazy how it always holsd up
Look at what the company employees look like compared to the original Bungie team. You’ll have your answer.
Because they they outsourced the croissants to the lowest bidder...
so many studios tried to make a "Halo killer" back then, only for 343 to actually kill the franchise themselves
343 saw all those other devs try to make a "Halo Killer" and said "Lemme show you how it's done"
it sure didn't help that bungie ended with Reach which was a cod clone with awful multiplayer balance. The first thing 343 was fix most of it
@@mcdonkey500reach had an amazing story tho
@@mcdonkey500 All 343 ever did was copy cod with 4 and 5, and unlike reach, they didn't deliver.
@@obi-wankenobi2392my only problem with that game is it has nothing to do with halo😅
still a dope ass game tho💯
All of my childhood memories turned to concentrated hatred for 343 as an adult.
Halo died when Bungie gave it up.
@@RipzCritical Bungie didn’t it give it up. Microsoft bought the rights to Halo before CE and created 343. Bungie didn’t even want to continue making Halo after 2, but had to out of contract obligations and the fact Halo 2 wasn’t a finished story.
When you have the original developers come back and making spin-off games and spiritual sequels you know you've messed up. Hopefully it doesn't turn into another "Rebel Moon" failure, but I am interested in seeing what the devs of Sentinel brings along with the developer Jar of Sparks.
@@ThatGuyNamedRick Spiritual successors? I am kinda curious on what they are.
@@tiger_lord305 While this is true, the games were still definitively Halo with maybe the exception of Reach, which was still good but you could tell they wanted to do something different.
343 has ripped off everything except their own franchise. Halo 4 was CoD, Halo 5 was Titanfall, Halo Infinite was the actual barebones corpse of a Halo game used to sell a ripoff of Fortnites battlepass and MTXs systems.
They're awful.
And now Bungie is destroying their own franchise. It comes full circle these days. I just play old titles, I have given up on all of these new games. I can wait a year or two and buy them for $20 or less.
If you look outside the stuff produced by 343 themselves, Halo is still suffering. Halo RUclipsrs are struggling or have completely dropped Halo/trying to drop. Mega Construx Halo is basically nowhere to be found on store shelves. What good merchandise do we even have? 343 have almost accomplished their goal of finally killing Halo...
As an avid mega collector I can second this, it’s been years since I saw halo on store shelves, it’s not like the sets and figures are bad, it’s just a symptom of the health of the franchise 😢
I miss Mega Bloks.
The era where they expanded from Halo Wars to just _Halo_ was the best time to be a kid.
@@isolategaming6572 Agreed, it's the reason I've stopped collecting. If you don't have the money to order the set on drop day on Amazon, you're going to be paying scalper prices. I've been selling off all my old Mega nowadays. I've still got the Sabre, a whole bunch of Warthogs, Rhino, Scorpion, Mammoth, Phantom, 2 Pelicans, and I don't know what else.
@@alostbaron781 It's in the worst possible state it has ever been in right now. And yet people still defend this company
Don't know how Hidden Xperia could still be so cheerful delivering every new Halo update.
Halo has been under 343's control for 13 years (longer than Bungie had Halo I'll add), and what do we have to show for it? One poor remaster of an original game, one mediocre game, one bastardized port of the originals that took half a decade to fix, one terrible game, a decent RTS, and one mid game who's only redeeming quality is being more faithful to the originals than the previous two entries, and an absolute dogshit TV show. For fuck's sake, 343 is 3 for 3 on bad mainline Halo games and are the reason it died and hasn't been relevant in 13 years; all those "Halo Killers" from the '00s have nothing on 343i themselves
Look up their employee group photo compared to the original Bungie team. You’ll notice a major difference.
To be fair, I remember people abandoning Halo for Call of Duty even during Halo 3’s life. Although it wouldn’t be as dead as it is currently had good games been released since 343i took over, it still wouldn’t be as relevant as it was in 2007.
@@alexschneider8494 It doesn't need to be as relevant as Halo 3 was, or even as good. It just needs to be *good* period, and 343 couldn't even deliver on that. Also, CoD wasn't an Xbox exclusive so.. of course it was more popular. I guarantee with all the custom games, Forge maps, file sharing, etc. Halo 3 would've dominated the scene even more than it had if it wasn't exclusive to Xbox. And it's genuinely a shame that despite there being more people than ever playing games today, no games have ever bothered to learn from Halo 3 and include those social features that brought people together. That was the heart of Halo 3 and what made it special, and why no games can (well, they can, no one cares to though) replicate that feeling today.
Halo wars 2 was awesome, but it also wasnt really 343’s as another studio made the vast majority of it. (Which is probably why it’s a cut above the rest of modern Halo)
@@Labyrinth6000what’s the difference?
Unfortunately, the one thing that is hyper consistent with 343 is that they cannot leave things well enough alone. I would be VERY surprised if the Halo 1 remake doesn't include fundamental changes to the story and/or gameplay.
I figure since their lore doesn't make sense with the original story, they're just going to change the original story in the remake.
Master Chief is gay, Captain Keyes is a strong independent woman, Cortana is transgender, Sargent Johnson has blue hair.
@@C6Z_Bob shallow, but at this point
@@C6Z_Bobdon’t give them any ideas 😅
@@C6Z_Bob And then a new female spartan will come in an save Master Chief, then realize shes the best spartan around
The general feeling around Halo honestly feels closer to the 'Post Endgame' feeling most people have with Marvel. It's still a beloved franchise by many, but the main story is done, people got closure and were satisfied with the conclusion.
Now it's difficult to drum up interest or raise the stakes higher in a way that doesn't feel artificial. Halo 3 was the end of cannon for me personally.
The Halo franchise was lightening in a bottle. Microsoft tried to catch that lightening again without realizing the storm passed years ago.
That last paragraph needs to be bolded, italicized, and underlined.
@@moonlightrobbery I mean, it's basically one of the last things said at the end of the trilogy. "For us, the storm has passed, the war is over." I've always seen it to have more meaning than just Lord Hood speaking in-universe on the end of the decades long existential war. The developers at Bungie knew their fight was over too.
Halo reach was good too. That's post end game
i think the biggest issue is that companies dont want lightning in a bottle. or closure. they want an endless stream of growing revenue.
Spit your divine tong indeed my brother!
I have never played Halo
They turned Cortana into a villain that killed entire human colonies, her name would be spoken by the people within the world of Halo in the same way we speak of Pol Pot and other genocide committers. Then the entire emotional conclusion of Halo Infinite was "I'm going to name myself after Neo-Stalin". I laughed as credits rolled
What they did to Cortana was so disgusting. Why did they hate her so much? Textbook character assassination
Same schtick as Infinity Conez in Thor Love and Thunder
That's something they really failed to capture throughout the whole series. The Covenant wiped out most of humanity and then in the later games people like buck are just happy to be friendly with Elites for no reason when there should be a huge amount of hatred and distrust towards them. That would make for a much more interesting story. Instead he's like: 'these elites are our brothers', which is not only cheesy but total BS, you aren't going to let go of the past that easy.
@@nutyyyy halo 2&3. and explained very well that this was an act of desperation and convenience for both sides. The last halo three cutscene (no legendary) “I remember how this war started what your kind did to mine but you have my thanks for standing by him till the end hard to believe he’s gone.” Lastly ONI trued to undermine SOW at points but prefer them over hostile covenant remains
@@Nighterac The same reason they had Locke retconned into the universe and made the main character of Halo 5, the writers fundamentally misunderstood the characters, and nobody stood up and said "this isn't them"
Frank O'Connor and his consequences have been a disaster for Halo.
I always found it funny that he transferred to 343 to have his way with Halo, and his way destroyed halo. Maybe just maybe Frank there's a reason a lot of your ideas were overridden by other guys at Bungie.
@@BreakerXXIVWhenever I saw Staten during his time in 343 in videos, he looked like he was about to murder Frankie.
Consequences, you mean accomplices? Him, Kiki who is the executive producer of Halo 4 5 and the TV show, and Bonnie who was like CDPR before Cyberpunk released?
Not sure why so many people bring him up, he isn't the reason for most of this stuff at all lol
@@tomtheconqeruryeah I think that was you projecting. Frank is not the Antichrist.
The current state of Bungie only shows that Halo never had a chance of lasting regardless.
Maybe things could have worked out in some alternate reality where Bungie went back with Microsoft to publish Destiny because they allowed them to keep the IP. Idk, it’s sad all around
Bungie the original makers of Halo is now under the guidance of Herman Hulst at playstatjon who once upon a time directed Killzone. Time travel back to 2004 and tell your past self this
Who even plays destiny still?
All the good Bungie employees quit or retired. None of the og members are still there they’ve all been replaced by millennials and gen x’ers that are obsessed with microtransactions and putting leftist garbage in their game
Now they're trying to turn halo spiritual father into yet another live service looter shooter with "quirky operatives" which hurts on a different level.
5:59 - A beloved story that was finished, btw. That's why "Halo 3" had as its tagline "Finish the fight." That's why the main antagonists, the flood and the covenant, were both defeated. That's why the conflict at the heart of the story was resolved. That's why there's a nice bookend where Chief goes back into the cryo pod. And that's why Bungie didn't make "Halo 4" themselves but instead made spin-offs.
Chief's story was over. Simple as that. If they were going to make more Halo games, they needed to make spin-offs. Hell, I wouldn't have minded a new Halo trilogy that was a spin-off trilogy. Like, idk, "Halo: Swords of Sangheilios" or something where you follow an elite in trying to fight the remnants of the covenant and reunify the Sangheili empire or something. Could've worked. Could've even been an fps. Could've felt very fresh despite it and it didn't require them to pull some bullshit new apocalyptic threat out of thin air.
@@OneOnOne1162 Halo 4 was discussed during the development of Reach, but they decided not to pursue a new story that they couldn’t see through, not that it was out of the realm of possibility for them.
I feel exactly the same about starwars. A lot of the criticism and suggestions of different and unique directions they should have taken instead of making a poor soft reboot continuation are the same between the two. And just the same, each bafflingly refuses to try and do a new things despite the times they start to go that direction, like mandalorian season 1 or hunt the truth, they get praised only to immediately just revert to their same shit and don't try to make anything new again despite it getting great reception. It's like good reception literally hurts them, it would explain their decisions. The fact we havent gotten an elite or marine based halo game is absurd. Starwars is far better off though because it got andor. Halo fans have been asking for a gritty odst spinoff show or game for so long that snotty redditors make fun of the idea, starwars did the premise and, shocker, its the best thing to come out of the horrible new leadership. Big surprise.
@@tiger_lord305You seem to have knowledge of the public conversation ex-Bungie dev's had about them tossing around the idea of a Halo 4, but are wilfully neglecting that the reason they decided not to is the exact reasons why 343i has put Halo into the ground now.
I dunno... Story-wise, as far as continuations went 4 was pretty good. Instead of trying to hype up a new threat on par with the covenant or flood, they focused on exploring Chief as a character, and it felt like a natural continuation of Chief's story. Yeah, it introduced Prometheans and The Didact which kinda filled the role of the New Big Bad ^TM, but it was never the main focus like how the enemy factions were in the Bungie era, you can see that in how they were largely dealt with by the end of H4. They were, especially the Didact, supposed to be a reflection of the Master Chief and they fulfilled that role, story-wise, excellently. And I get it was controversial, it's a big change that occurred with a bunch of other controversial changes. But there was absolutely something there that, if 343 stuck with, could've elevated the 343 era into something special. Perhaps it wouldn't reach the heights of the Bungie era, but it could still have been great in it's own right, have something that allowed the studio to come out of Bungie's shadow as the studio desperately seems to want to do. Instead, they threw it all away with 5 and made neither fans of the Bungie era or Halo 4 happy.
@@moosemusicofficial Maybe Bungie shouldn’t have teased a shield world at the end of Halo 3 if they really wanted to bookend the franchise 🤷♂️
We did mull it over a little bit. We ended Halo 3 with, ‘Wake me when you need me.’ And we knew if we were going to launch into [Master Chief’s] story beyond Halo 3 that it was going to be a big trilogy,” Lehto says.
But ultimately, Bungie’s thought process was “not all that dissimilar to what [343 Industries] actually ended up doing, but we knew that if we were to venture into that, it would have been so much more than what we would have been able to tackle contractually with Microsoft.”
So tell me what Im being “willfully ignorant” of? Bungie came up with idea of Prometheans during Halo Chronicles. Halo fans have this weird romanticize portrayal of old Bungie as being perfect and martyrs of the industry. Joe Staten and Jason Jones were the brains and heart of Bungie Halo. Thats why Halo 3 story and writing is a step down in quality from CE and 2 because they weren’t as involved.
343 is the reason I don't play Halo anymore. A travesty of IP management ever.
@@SushiJuice cry more than dumbass
"it didn't outsell halo 3 (neither did reach but that 'doesn't count') so thats bad"
"it sold massively less each time (shows a picture of a less than 5% drop in sales for each for reach-guardians)
"this game has lost money (can't provide any evidence because nobody knows production cost or total revenue, no one but xbox and 343 knows what monthly revenue quota needs to be met but it's clearly 10x the upkeep costs)
"the PR team quashing rumors is bad"
"it makes sense to remake an old instead of making a new one (the same stream that showed off spartan exchange they explicitly stated they were working on halo 7)
"343 has to earn goodwill from a community that never gave it to bungie until after they left"
My favorite is when he only used space invaders as a comparison, ignores mario's and it's so odd to me the mainline mario games are allowed to fluctuate in total sales each game but not Halo
Dude is seriously trying to say halo 3 could carry the xbox one and series comepletely ignoring the fact that the 360 was the best selling console before 3 even released and it's competitors fumbled the console themselves
Completely ignores the fact that by sales 5 did carry the xbone exactly how halo 2 did, but that's bad because "reasons"
This is one of the very few videos that you’ve ever made where the fact checking is complete and utter garbage
It’s like you didn’t do anything but put a non halo playing opinion on an article about playing halo
Remember when Halo 3:ODST introduced firefight, and it was so popular that Call of Duty made their own PvE survival mode? Then Halo 4 tried to chase CoD and ironically dropped firefight while adopting an early "season" system? Halo went from setting trends to chasing them.
I think Nazi Zombies came out before Firefight tbh
Activision was so jealous they made a time machine so they could make cod zombies one year before ODST released
@@DrHotelMario I wasn't talking about Zombies. That's a different game mode. I'm talking about Modern Warfare 3's "Survival" mode, which had you fight increasingly difficult waves of enemies.
Firefight was not popular lol. Call of Duty had PvE modes far before Halo considered PvE, so it's the entire other way around. Further, and to make this one very simple: You can easily setup Google with the Search Parameters at "custom date" before 01/01/2011, and search "Firefight" with almost everyone disliking the concept, and those liking it claiming that it was "hard to find matches". You can easily see, in the era this exited, the concept wasn't just unwanted (and unwarranted), it was otherwise devoid of point.
Besides, the concept mode you're thinking of isn't "Halo", it's Gears of War. Horde Mode, and (still) it was less popular than the basic competitive multiplayer.
"The goal of Halo 2’s level system is first and foremost to help you find the most enjoyable games possible. Games that are neck and neck, where the only sure way to win is by playing above your abilities, be it through better planning, more focus, improved team communication, whatever. But it’s fun to not be so serious all the time. That’s what custom games are for, or the Training Grounds playlist if you don’t have enough Friends online to form a custom game. But we believe that games that challenge you to rise above your current abilities are the most enjoyable and the most rewarding."
- Bungie 2004 - 2010.
Just to iterate where Halo use to be focused around.
@@Elfangor567 Wave based gamemodes are older than halo I don't know why you think they got that idea from ODST over a decade later
Didn't the first Gears of War game have that? you know, from 2006?
Really speaks to the strength of the original series that after more than 10 years of terrible games, there's STILL an audience wanting a good Halo game.
Been playing Halo since I was like 7 years old. I'm 24 now and the itch is still there.
The audience in question are a bunch of ingrates who would still complain
I dunno... I remember when the Halo Infinite beta was out and was very popular among fans, so they're not impossible to please.
@@ForgottenMovieGems And then complain about 343 being lazy with the updates despite Microsoft enforcing the contract for hire system?
@@koichidignitythief7429 My point is they had it nailed for a short time with that beta. I don't think that's a problem with the fanbase to point out that things went bad after a good start.
I also think it's a loud minority of fans that attack the devs as being lazy. I don't think that's true for the whole community though.
1.) Master Chief's story should've ended, flat-out, at Halo 3. He maybe could've appeared in spinoffs, preferably prequels, as a supporting character. ODST and Reach showed us Halo can make compelling stories without him. I don't know why people can't accept that a character has run their course in the limelight.
2.) One of the saddest things to watch is Halo RUclipsrs like HiddenXperia or Mint Blitz continually go "H-Halo is saved guys!" after 343 releases a patch regarding things that were supposed to be ready three years ago. Or "This next season of the TV show even better than the last!' when viewer responses have been it's as bad, if not worse, than the last.
Dude, do you not remember how halo 3 ended?
Literally on a cliff hanger. Heading toward a mysterious planet.
Hindsight being what it is, it’s easy to say that you wish they never made halo 4. But imagine if that was the last we saw of chief?
That’s half life 3 levels of blue balls man, it needed a conclusion, the fact that you didn’t like the one it got doesn’t change the fact that halo 3s ending was anything but conclusive
Mint and Hidden also criticized 343 before. Don't paint them as some sort of white knight
@@Samuel_Loeganthey are shills who feed off of people like you.
Came here to support number 2
@jj4l agreed, story was good, gameplay was lacking. Won’t argue that point at all
343i has had Halo longer than Bungie, and they've done nothing but chop away at the pillar Bungie built. Is it any wonder that it's crumbling and about to collapse entirely?
Honestly at first during COVID I thought maybe halo infinites campaign was alright, by the time I'd finished it and then shortly after I was actually shocked how much of a nothing burger it was, and the multiplayer had so many issues for far too long.
Yeah for sure. The campaign was real close to being awesome. Just didn't quite rise to it.
@@scottwatrous the most painful part for me was the audio log collectables, I had nothing better to do so I collected them all, the story happening in the logs was more interesting than the campaign.
I still had fun with it. But the more I got into the story the more it revealed itself for what it is. Crap. What a lame ass story. A 3rd time utterly restarting the "plot" with little connection to the previous game. No real story to speak of. Anything that is interesting, or might be, is done off screen and explained instead of shown or played. Even the gameplay falls flat. The world... it's atrocious. Yeah, not a good game. MP is okay. It's possible to find some fun there. But... too much holding it back.
IMO the best way to rate a game is how memorable it is. How often you think about it. I think about red dead or a quote from read dead 1-3 times a week. When I booted up my ancient gen 1 Xbox one I forgot I not only purchased the game but beat it twice.
You mean during the government restrictions*
Frank O'Connor is the parasite of Halo. Sucked the life out of it without the knowledge of how Halo worked.
i wouldn't say it was him, he was there even with the bungie halo games. the 343 devs were incompetent and copied call of duty, that is what ruined halo..
@Ralphunreal True, Frank was at bungie as a media manager/blogger. Basically a low level job a bungie, then when 343 was being made he somehow jumped to the forefront in importance, becoming FRANCISE LEAD. He is at the very least 90% the reason Halo is in the state its been for the past 13 years.
Frank o' Connor was the spinal cord, the back bone, of 343, most problems that Halo fans have had for the past 13 years ALL link to him.
No bro, you just don’t understand good storytelling. Those ancient mysterious aliens left mysterious remnants, and that cosmic evil parasite, you know those interesting story aspects. They get way better when you remove all mystery and you learn everything about them. It’s called storytelling bro
@@jams1942not defending Frank O'Connor, but Kiki Wolfkill and Bonnie Ross were also at the helm of the Halo dark ages. The three horsemen of the apocalypse.
@@Christian-lb2lv I was talking about Frank, not Halo itself.
I wouldn’t mind another Halo game set earlier during the Human-Covenant War.
This has probably been covered in novels or whatever, but I feel like a First Contact game would be fun. Maybe the first half of the game would be human v human fighting and then the Covenant surprise everyone, forcing them to unite. Kind of like the Flood reveal in the first Halo.
@@nemo-zl1vm It has lol I'd highly recommend Contact Harvest by Joe Staten, it's all about Johnson and humanity's first contact with the Covenant and why exactly the Prophets declared war on humanity. And before all that, the Insurrectionist stuff is basically an allegory for the War on Terror in the early 2000's. Really good read overall. The last few pages describing Johnson banging Al-Cygni's brains out is also a gem worth reading.
@@nemo-zl1vmtechnically halo wars is first contact due to harvest being the first planet that the covenant ever found from humanity, but yeah an actual first person halo game set on harvest would be dope as hell
halo is dead, doesnt matter
@@Ralphunreal aren’t you a ray of sunshine
I honestly don't think the speed of the older Halos is a big deal. Sure, on paper it doesn't sound good, but in practice the speed and pacing of the original trilogy is fantastic. I've known plenty of people who got introduced to Halo through the MCC who are used to faster shooters, and they all enjoy the classic Halo games. Some were even on the side of skepticism prior to trying them out, and changed their minds after playing. I know this isn't a universal thing, and some people will not like the slower speed, but I think it works well. The furthest I want to see a CE remake go is the make the movement feel closer to H2/H3, cause even for Halo standards, CE is a bit on the floaty side. I agree though that a CE remake is a good idea, so long as it stays true to the original game. It's a good way for 343 to get a handle on how to recreate that Halo feel and look in Unreal. It absolutely can be done too. Branching Sickness and Ringworld Alpha are some fangames being developed in Unreal, and while I can't speak on the game feel since they're not publicly available yet, they absolutely nailed the look of a Halo game. It can be done, but we'll see. There seems to be some pretty big studio restructuring going on along with the new management at 343, so it's a complete crapshoot if basically nothing changes, or if this is going to finally change things for the better.
A big issue with it "feeling" slow is the FOV. Increase it in MCC PC and it feels much faster.
Mind you knowledgehusk himself said he doesn’t like halo as much as other early shooters like quake so his tangent on the pace not working was probably his own personal bias. Halo is a great shooter and can be again slowness included.
@@ZSTE It does help, but I wouldn't say it makes the original trilogy feel "fast" either. Again, I think that, despite being on the slower side, the original trilogy still has expertly crafted pacing. You can build a game to whatever speed you like so long as the pacing is good. I've played plenty of excellent slow games, and plenty of bad fast games. Fast doesn't always equate to good, and I feel like making Halo too fast makes the game worse as a result.
@@clan741 100%
It literally didn't feel slow to me. And it made the vehicles more useful in any case.
Remember 343 is the character who betrays Master Chief (the player’s character) multiple times.
It’s ironic they named the studio after this character… or was it foreshadowing
Yeah, it really begs the question of why it wasn't called "117 Studios" or some shit instead.
To be fair we betray 343 first
@@nagger8216 i honestly hate how they're just naming everything after Halo things why can't they be more original this would give the studio more of its own identity versus just being tied down to Halo.
After a while just hearing them name everything they make after something from the HALO Series is just boring an unimaginative
@@EastlakeRasta7 Agreed. I also find it annoying because it permanently ruins those names for me forever. Like, I can never think about Guilty Spark without thinking of Bonobo Industries shitting itself in the corner.
@@nagger8216 plus this would give them an opportunity to make an original Ip to prove themselves as proper game devs along with the freedom to be more creative with this original Ip versus just Halo games like I get it you make Halo games but obviously you could do more but apparently not same thing can be applied to the coalition
Video starts at 0:57
Laughs in Vanced.
Nice
Laughs with sponser block
@@CYXNIGHT 🤓 (u right tho)
Thank u so much
This joke was made a ton before but the fact that the studio is named after the one character that betrays Master Chief multiple times will never stop being depressing and at the same time funny.
Halo ended at 3 canonically. 343 wrote a bynch of non canon fanfiction. Halo didn't die, it just ended.
343 killed Halo to focus on a promising new series called Blumpo which Microsoft purchased from Whimsu Gaming Network.
RIP Blumpo
I hate their redesigns of Bungie helmets they're just ruining them by adding on nonsense that shouldn't even be there
I will never forgive 343 for ruining the ODST helmet in each of their games. They shrunk the chin for absolutely no reason.
its interesting to note that every 343 game also feels like different companies made them lol. Halo 4 came out felts more like a cod clone than Halo specifically, than 5 which was more unique feel, and than Infinite which was just nostalgia bate, but all 3 of these games really have in common is sprint being a core feature. Story wise, game play wise, and aesthetically all are somewhat different from one another.
Yeah true, I remember when CoD had Ancient Aliens and Robot Alien guns. That was my favorite CoD
That's because they effectively are. After every major release, 343 would see a massive wave of layoffs and new hires. Almost the entire team who made Halo 4 left shortly after release, leaving only the Spartan Ops team to make Halo 5 (if you're wondering why Halo 5s story has almost nothing to do with 4, that's why.) Then again after Halo 5, Brian Reed, (Spartan Ops and Halo 5s main writer) got the boot with someone new taking his place.
343 as a studio ebb and flow with its staff. It's always been this way. The games lack cohesion because 343 itself isn't
@@markricheard1870Stop being obtuse. Halo 4 had loadouts, perks, sprint as a base ability, flinch from being shot, a variation of killstreaks,...
halo 5 was titanfall lol
@@Keo-hj1fw def similar also similar to destiny in many ways.
It wasn't just 343, Microsoft is to blame as well. They basically pulled a Konami and decided that actual developers are 'too expensive' and tried to make an engine out of contractors, despite having TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS. All so execs and shareholders could leech more money for themselves. Not only is this anti-consumer, it's anti employee.
People need to get it through their heads that Microsoft is 343, 343 is Microsoft. They are one and the same. Although my blame for Halo's downfall comes down to Microsoft, 343, Bungie, COD, the industry and world changing, and the fans.
It’s gotta be really hard to keep any classic video game franchise relevant for a long amount of time because so many times awesome game franchises fall off hard. In this day in age, every developer is more focused on the bottom line than making a good game and that’s what killed so many of these franchises.
Yea but look at doom. It’s as popular as it was back then and doom continues to innovate at its already winning formula
Absolutely correct. Profits take priority over quality for most studios and publishers. Say it louder for the people blaming it on “DEI hires” and the “woke agenda.”
Half Life is older than Halo by a few years, yet it remains so damn relevant. Age means nothing, you just need to care for your community, adhere to your legacies first, and they'll bring rookies in.
@@JamesTDG Unsurprisingly fans want the games to remain recognizable as that game instead of looking like every other game.
@@mattai075 DEI and the woke agenda does contribute a lot to Halos downfall. Look who was running the company
A CE remake is a good idea, but there is zero chance 343 actually lands it lmao
no it isnt a good idea. We already got CEA wich was trash incarnate. I dont want to see "new" lore and stuff in CE that doesnt makes sense. JUST MAKE A GOOD GAME INSTEAD OF KILLING OLD ONES. 343 literally hired people that hate halo and declines ex bungie devs. They literally want all the fame for themselfs alone and eradicate anything old.
We don't need another fucking iteration of CE. Everyone and their dog has already played that game to death.
The only reason people "think" it's a good idea is because a Halo Content Creator claims it is. Otherwise, the Halo CE remake, if without a proper CE balance multiplayer, would entirely tank and envelop the same typical problems we have today -- Halo was a piss poor 'casual' game, and at that, Halo before 2010 was an entry where skill was the only factor of being good or winning. The amount of 'luck' carried into you per match was only symbolic of your capabilities of using the controller, and although certain things could happen "with luck", someone skillful would expressively be able to repeat this over and over again.
That being said, definitively the problem that exists here is that the Halo Community (the ones on youtube) never wanted Halo. The ones who want "unreal engine" wanted graphically impressive "xbox first party", while the others have this weird belief that the 'only reason halo failed is because it isnt on unreal engine' (stupid, i know).
In reality, a campaign release for Halo has not sold (at all) since before Bungie left Halo. Hell, the primary reason Bungie left Halo was because their campaigns were not the spotlight, the multiplayer was. Truth be told, it doesn't matter "what" remake it is, it matters how the multiplayer is balanced, how it's designed, the matchmaking solutions and the focus on a fair, competitive environment within a skill progression matchmaking solution, and specifically if precision weapons are brought back to being "primary weapons".
Otherwise, no matter what 343 does, it'll fail, because the overwhelming majority of people who "will play the game but refuse to" simply never wanted what the Halo Community (particularly on youtube) wanted. Many on youtube wouldn't even touch a multiplayer Halo if they were paid to, and they speak (dominantly in this case) for the youtuber, who typically thinks that their community speaks for the majority (while forgetting that their community refuses to play any halo games multiplayer, besides maybe reach & 4).
That being the case, if they were to release a Halo CE "remake", it'll probably fail. Not because they couldn't do it right, but because they'll focus "too much" on community, and the community will lead them down a path of total failure, and then blame them for the fact that no one wants to play it (and probably spin a "they made this for esports" like they tend to argue, despite 99% of the game focusing around a non-competitive non-multiplayer player).
@@anonymous7564If balance was key for Halo's MP success and thus it's survival then Halo 4 and 5 would have been record-shattering games. They weren't because when the campaign sucks the community piles up on the game creating a hostile environment and thus not enough outsider interest to attract more people.
It's not
I honest to god think all Halo needs to do to find success again is to be itself. The original trilogy of games has aged _remarkably_ well and is still a blast to play. Not even the original servers being shut down has stopped fans from enjoying them. It's a rare series I think truly had something for everyone to enjoy. It was a shooter with its own competitive scene, but thanks to custom games and Forge it was also a wacky party game you could play with your friends where what you were able to do was limited only by your imagination.
ID Software did a killer job rebooting DOOM, and while it's not as prolific as it was in its prime it's still a 100% respectable revival that's beloved by fans. I can only hope Halo gets similar treatment someday.
Unironically this. DOOM is in a great state at the minute because it's not afraid to be itself
I wish 343 would give Halo to ID. I honestly believe ID could do the original games more justice than 343 will ever be capable of.
I was thinking the same thing. Halo needs the same treatment Doom got. ID would be my first choice of developer but I don’t think that’s ever gonna happen. I think Halo could still work it just has to be true to what made Halo special.
The fact every time the fans thought 343 were done touching Halo they celebrated makes it so confusing how they’ve not been torched
My first Halo was Reach, I remember people telling me my Halo wasn’t as good as the first ones but I loved it just the same, I think people look back on it pretty fondly now comparing it with the most recent releases.
I’d put Reach up there with the original 3-I even prefer it to Halo 2, but I suspect that’s a hot take to some
they look back on it fondly but it objectively was the start of all the negative changes that would ruin the franchise. don’t care if cod halo was your first, it was also the beginning of the end
NO! Halo Reach is GARBAGE because the evil Franky oh Coccer write it!!
Did you ever end up playing the original Trilogy?
@@rabbitrun777 I disagree, Bungie experimenting with the Armor Abilities (which was basically an early prototype for Destiny) in a spinoff didn't give 343 the license to make the mainline games that way. If 343 saw Reach as a genuine evolution of Halo's gameplay and not an experiment, then I don't think they ever understood Halo to begin with.
You forgot to mention that Infinite was supposed to be the Xbox Series' big launch game, but 343 bungled the development so much that it didn't launch until a year after the Series hit stores. So the Series launched without a flagship game that would sell the console, and they are currently losing to PS5 by a ratio of at least 2:1 (probably much more by now)
right because its all 343s fault and not the corporate suits who set unreasonable release dates for things and have no idea how long it actually takes to make games on the scale they want. they should never have announced infinite until it was basically done in fact that's how all game announcements should work
@@exilestudios9546 Yeah, that is true. That first gameplay video was embarrassing. It really shows that Phil Spencer isn't the gamer he claims to be if he thought that was appropriate to show to the public.
@@exilestudios9546agreed. Diamond in the rough comment among a sea of “343 killed my childhood, I knew it because number company bad and Bungo good.”
At the end of the day, every fuck up comes back to Microsoft. In this day and age, an unfinished product shat out is pretty much guaranteed to come from an out-of-touch publisher having no clue what they’re doing or spite for the previous group (Which is a thing that happened at 343 on the story side). And it’s not limited to Halo. The corporatization of Minecraft. The buying of studios to kill them or sit on the franchise indefinitely until a middling release. Xbox should have been forced out of Microsoft’s hands long ago, or at least Microsoft itself split in another way.
@@SpartanNat I agree. When it comes to Halo, all the blame always gets lumped on 343, but people conveniently forget that 343 is a subsidiary of Xbox. One bad game can be blamed on the studio, but a continuing string of failures points to a lack of competent oversight from the publisher.
Halo is Xbox's flagship franchise. They should have done a much better job of cultivating 343, the studio they built to make Halo games.
Tbh that's not the first time halo dropped late for a console release
tbh i think halo started to suffer when they went too hard on the "pro/competitive" scene.
Halo 5 moment
They focused so much on it being competitive they forgot to make a good fun game.
Overwatch moment
Saying “Big Team Battle Halo’s bread and butter” just gets you yelled at in any conversation. It’s ridiculous because the Warthog defines Halo. Halo was only made to cater to the Warthog. Halo is best as combined arms sandbox.
Nonsense, halo 2 was the most competitive and is fondly remembered
My decision to walk away from Halo after Bungie moved on is yet again validated. Halo 3 and Reach provided a supremely satisfying ending and feeling of closure respectively to the series, and I didn't want to risk sullying the strength of such strong send-offs with the zombie franchise that Halo has become under 343's ineptitude.
Halo 5 multiplayer was better then anything Bungie produced.
The “foreigners aren’t human” crowd ruined halo lore, one of the most irredeemable thing Frank did to the story. It removes the narrative irony that the covenant are literally killing their own gods, and that Truth knows the truth.
Halo 3 put that the forerunners aren't humans first
@@deathtrooper2048 Yeah people really like to pretend that it was Halo 4 when all it did was follow up on 3's terminals.
@@deathtrooper2048It was actually Soma the Painter that started the contradiction. The terminals in Halo 3 still kept the Forerunners as humans.
@@borttheattorney6012halo 3 itself kept the humans are forerunner plot. Just coz frank O'Conner was ignorant of basically everything about halo doesn't mitigate
the majority of the bungie lore
The mistake that companies, lawmakers, big studios, and generally "Old Adults"/"Boomers" make constantly about video games is that they're just a product. A creation to be made and shipped out. But video games aren't just... something you can make on an assembly line- the piles and piles of shovelware prove that falsehood. No... Video games are much more like an interactive painting. They are at their very core, a collaborative work of art, with each artist adding a brush stroke, each programmer cleaning up the ink lines below the color, and each actor and scene stage being the vibrant paints that draw you in on first glance before you can appreciate the work that went into a beautiful painting.
Garbage in, garbage out, if you don't respect the artistic process of making a video game and just smash things together and expect a masterpiece, well, you're as foolish as whoever let those infinite monkeys start banging on the typewriters, expecting an award-winning manuscript.
Absolutely spot on mate, games are now what, 95% shovelware, and even the non shovelware games are hit & miss, mostly miss. Just look at the Switch Eshop, 99% garbage and even loaded with porn software.
Hot take: The decline of couch co-op killed Halo.
I don't see why the gameplay of a CE remake staying faithful would mean "it didn't age well" as if Halo 3 isn't still the most played game in the series to this day and it also adheres to the same gameplay principles that CE and all of Bungie's games (not just Halo) did. Halo being slow wasn't a problem, it was a choice and a good one. Why do you want another super speedy that moves at mach speed like every other game out there instead of something unique that would work perfectly well in modern day? Who cares if the movement speed in Halo is slow? The speed of encounters and fights are the important part, and Halo keeps those fast-paced. Why must every game play the exact same for morons to be happy? Just let the series die if you're not going to make Halo Halo. Not everything needs to continue on forever. It's fine for something to have an ending.
Its slow because its a console FPS, they all sucked until COD4 made the gameplay closer to PC but by using a gamepad
@@koffing2073 You're wrong.
Frank and 343 are an embarrassment to the halo franchise
It's ok, Halo 3 had a good ending, the rest of Halo is NOT canon.
Does reach count? Because lore wise it's before one, but the game released after odst.
@@Corvus-uh2db Reach is part of the club. It can stay.
This Halo Reach, wars 1 and 2 slander will not stand
@marobrother1751 I was literally saying if halo infinite doesn't follow after halo wars 2 it was destined to fail
Based
It's clear that 343's original plan, the groundwork they laid with Halo 4, was thrown out the window after mixed fan responses.
The more character driven storytelling, exploring Chief as a person and how being a soldier his entire life and losing people around him affected him personally, getting to know the man under the armor. Lasky and Palmer and Thorn were welcome additions to the cast that got shuffled away into the background. The Didact was obviously meant to be the main villain of the trilogy, they could have done a lot of cool stuff with him but they killed him off in a comic book instead because, again, mixed reception.
Some people (like myself) thought fleshing out the Forerunners was cool and a nice payoff after knowing so little about them, others didn't like that the mystery was gone.
Looking at Chief as a person and not just a nearly silent protagonist for the player to project onto was welcomed by some, and upset others.
Some people thought killing off Cortana was a beautiful but tragic moment, others were mad she was gone.
343 could not please both groups, and instead of just going all-in on their original plan and at least telling a coherent story that SOME people would like, they got cold feet and made a disjointed mess that almost nobody liked.
it seems like an attempt to move the franchise forward to something new, but as we found out with the SW sequel triology a lot of fans just wanted more of the same. The studio execs get scared of losing fan/sales and immedately cave in, resulting in a franchise that cannot move on from "Chief fighting the covenant on a Halo"
Nah, exploring the mystery of the Forerunners would've been fine if they weren't racist space Voldermorts. Like really, there's no reason whatsoever for humanity to be the Reclaimers or for the Covenant to genocide humanity in 343's bastardized version of the story.
It honestly makes me wish we got a Bungie-lore Didact that hated the Covenant because of their war with humanity, and Chief has to stop him from waging another war against those Covenant species for revenge since the conflict is already over. Would've been infinitely more interesting.
@@gmanplaysgames256 I like Halo 4 as an epilogue to the original trilogy. Works much better this way than as a start of a new one.
Humans were Forerunners, no need to make things convoluted and split them up
halo 4 is terrible and an insult to the franchise.
Maybe this is an unpopular take, but why not just press the delete button on Halo 4 and onward? Split the timeline or something. Diverge and tell a new story while taking constructive criticism. Kind of like what Runescape and WoW are going through with OSRS and SoD.
343 should not be allowed to ever touch the first 3 games again. Period.
Starts at 0:56
no it's starts at 0:01
@@thescotslairno it starts at 0:00
Nah
It all started 13.8 billion years ago
Before time began, there was, the cube
My hero
Let not the voices of those unworthy to see th glory you've bestowed upon a weary traveler. Be with peace and know your tales will echo throughout the ages.
One of my favorite ice cream parlors was bought out by a large corporation a few years ago. The large corporation horribly mismanaged the business. Now their location is locked up, it has plywood over the windows, and there's a six-month old notice from their landlord warning about unpaid rent pinned to the door. But, the original owners took their money from the buyout and opened a new location which still serves the same good ice cream.
Anyway, not bringing this up for any particular reason
The worst part is that there are artists and designers who are in 343 that really know what they are doing and clearly are passionate about Halo, but the top management simply have utterly no clue where the magic is.
As someone who grew up with the Bungie era games, it truly hurts how far this franchise has fallen. It was almost inconceivable to think, back then, that HALO of all games would drop THIS low. You have yourself a widely popular science fiction video game franchise that is loved by many, which is responsible for some of the best gaming memories people have, which had an entire culture developed around it and somehow the company who was put in charge of it decides to just... not do anything that made it successful. Many times intentionally.
They didn't have to change the artstyle, or the music, or the lore, but they went ahead and did so because they were so far up their own asses trying to leave their "mark" on the franchise that they somehow didn't see that the way to leave your mark is to respect what was already there. It is a growing sentiment in the fanbase that nothing post-Bungie is canon, with 343's era being little more than corporate-funded fanfiction, and I'm personally all for that view.
I love the idea of a CE Remake, I've wanted a proper Resident Evil/Dead Space style one for a LONG time. But knowing that 343 is developing it - I have absolutely no faith in it. They'll probably pay respect to the surface level things (artstyle, music - which tbf are still important in their own right) but shit the bed when it comes to things like the story, gameplay and lore by shoving sprint into the game and including their shitty Forerunner lore in terminals or something.
Best case scenario? Shelve the franchise. It's already been beaten to death beyond the state of recognition. Unless there's a reboot post-Halo 3, there's no real hope for the series.
The only thing I liked about Halo Infinite, is that the Marine Pilot guy actually revealed himself as a civilian, or pirate, or whatever, but then still stuck by Chief.
To be clear the sales numbers for Halo actually went UP between 3-4
Once you factor in the 6m+ pack in copies of Halo 3
Man, I remember when I was in high school going to a midnight launch party of Halo 3 at a local video game store. One of my friends even got the special edition with a mini Master Chief's helmet because it was his favorite franchise. It even inspired him to study and join the video game industry as a developer after he graduated from college.
Seeing the downfall of the Halo series is sad, no wonder he said it stopped after 3.
I got some friends who were QA Testers for Infinate and while, at the time they could't say anything specific, it was pretty clear that management was a mess. A lot of this was done durning covid and the company hated allowing work from home. They would need to do repeatedly download of different versions of the game in the same day and it seemed like the relationship between testers and programmers was made intentially hostile by the company. Tests get penalized if they don't find bugs, and programmers are penalized if bugs are found.
I remember them talking about a different game they were working on, where it seems half the core development team all died; including the lead writer and lead developer, so nobody really knew what was going on with the story.
Covid hit in march of 2020. The original release date was fall of 2020. Past Halo games would've been prepping public betas when covid hit. The game wouldn't have been good or ready whether covid hit or not.
Guys, please.. the horse's corpse is barely recognizeable at this point, can we stop beating it and just burry the poor thing yet?
Tell that to Microsoft.
Took people long enough to realise this...
Seriously? Why was 343 even welcomed back after Halo 5? wtf
@@koalakyle19 4 was bad enough on its own tbh.
I literally began saying this the day halo 4 came out and they called me crazy
@@Spid3y_69I was on the fence with 4, but my viewpoint was solidified when I got burnt out of multiplayer after around 100 hours. I STILL play the OG trilogy, Reach, and ODST religiously, but I haven't gotten past the 2nd mission in H4 since MCC released. It's embarrassing, really.
@@devonlambert9131 it’s fun to play but it’s terrible once u realize its the beginning of halo’s downfall
We said as soon as halo 4 came out they fundamentally didn’t understand the series, but people coped hard about it. You aren’t coping now!
"Better late than never." - Romeo
May as well be never at this point. There is nothing to salvage, the franchise is utterly lost.
I think the biggest issue with Halo 4 story-wise, looking back on it, isn't so much that it was different to the previous games, rather, 343 didn't commit to 4's story with the rest of their entries. If they properly continued the story with H5, I genuinely believe that Halo would've been much better off. If splitscreen was going to die, for whatever stupid reason, then you may as well make the story more emotional as opposed to being more akin to an action movie like how Halo was in the Bungie era. Instead, they made nobody happy with a soft-reboot with 5 that undid a lot of the changes 4 made and character assassinating Cortana in the process.
@@holmanthehorror6127 Doubling down on what made Halo 4 awful to begin with is what they should've done? L take
@@nagger8216 Chief and Cortana's story in 4 was not awful.
You cant build up a fight between Cheif and Cortana for a whole game (5) and have it be resolved off screen before the start of the next game... like WTF.
Frank O’Connor as director managed to ruin the reputation of Halo incredibly quickly. It’s quite astounding how much he sabotaged the series by just not knowing anything about the series he worked on prior
Damn, 343 “destroyed” halo for the…
*Checks notes*
500000th time?
I mean… you CAN desecrate corpses.
The sad part is that halo infinite actually was a fun game in my opinion. It just didn’t get the frequent updates it needed when it was launched.
You think the death of a "halo engine", is "a good thing"? ... wtf? Yeah, know what makes a healthy game industry? Every single effing game being made on the same engine. Totally.
The only thing 343 has done right is keep master chiefs armor green
I remember Marathon.
And you'll get to see Bungee destroy it in your lifetime. What a world.
Honestly? As someone who grew up around Halo parties and stuff? I wouldn’t be upset if they let me grab ledges.
Sprinting? Nah. Makes vehicles less valuable.
Armor Abilities? Maybe if they’re power up pickups like the old Cloak and Overshield. *Maybe.*
ADS? Nah. Feels weird for Halo.
But ledge grabbing? I meaaaan…Would be fun to sneak up on folks on maps like Hang ‘Em High or Boarding Action.
This conundrum would not have ever been a thing had Halo 4 simply been a true sequel to 3. Slow changes would've been accepted, and just maybe the innovative changes over the course of 3-4 games could've been industry leading rather than just copy and paste sprint and clamber and say "Hey! Our game is modern!"
I actually quite enjoyed the "slower" aspect of Halo CE. In sequal Halo games, 2 expecially, the time to kill on harder difficulties was insanely short. Short of rocket flood, I never insta-died in Halo 1 just from peaking around a corner. Not even talking about the sniper Jackals either, just the Elites with their duel wielding could kill you before you took 3 steps.
4:45 no, because a spin-off is untested territory, it wouldn't generate as much money as the famous green guy. They just want to stick to something that's proven, no risk and it's the easiest way to milk the fans
Halo does have proven spin offs tho, the two that are most noteworthy being Halo Reach and Halo ODST
Odst, reach, Halo wars 1 and 2 don't exist?
@@NewtNewt117 I am talking about in the perspective of the people in charge of making the decisions, it was a huge release after the 5 years gap, of course they're going to get a new game for master chief instead of a spinoff
The real problem with spinoffs is the dev time required to create the spinoff. If you give the spinoff to another developer, the main developer can work on the main series, thus the spinoff has no major impact. I'd argue all campaign should be done as a spinoff, with multiplayer being done in-house and in conjunction with certain affinity.
This way, you can have "the story" be separated from the multiplayer, and the multiplayer being a tailored focus around the core elements that defined Halo in the past, without becoming some jumbled mess of "halo needs to be casual" every five seconds. A quick reminder to all others, Bungies intention around matchmaking was to be a competitive game (far before games even considered doing this):
"The goal of Halo 2’s level system is first and foremost to help you find the most enjoyable games possible. Games that are neck and neck, where the only sure way to win is by playing above your abilities, be it through better planning, more focus, improved team communication, whatever. But it’s fun to not be so serious all the time. That’s what custom games are for, or the Training Grounds playlist if you don’t have enough Friends online to form a custom game. But we believe that games that challenge you to rise above your current abilities are the most enjoyable and the most rewarding."
- Bungie 2004 - 2010.
It's always amazed me why fans of this game are so obsessed with this particular green dude. Why not make another man in armor who doesn't even show his face. And even Bungie themselves have proven that you can make another Spartan, or even a regular dude, just as good as Chief. Fans of this game (if they still exist) need to let the main character go. It's time for him to retire.
There's been a few times over the past 5 years where I've introduced the Halo trilogy to people who've never played it. We played it the classic way with drinks, snacks, and split screen. They all told me Halo CE was neat but weren't the biggest fan cuz of how loose and floaty everything was. But when they played 2 and 3... my god were they hooked. So much so that they went on to play all the other games games on their own until they got to Halo 4 and 5 and were like, "wtf just happened and why does this suck?"
Classic Halo still works for modern audiences. It's just modern Halo that doesn't.
I guess Halo is like Star Wars in more ways than one - the original trilogy was and will always remain the best the franchise ever did, and everything after was just regurgitating the same formula for diminishing returns.
Reach and Rogue One fit pretty well in the analogy. A prequel to the original trilogy, mostly well regarded overall, but absolutely loathed by a vocal minority.
@@nemo-zl1vm anyone who doesn't like reach and rogue one is a turkey imo
Clonewars was really good.
@@nemo-zl1vmstill despise the prequels but an rewrite could’ve fixed that compared to many disney stuff that falls flat on concept alone
I mean I grew up on Prequel Era SW, and I will freely admit ROTS is my favorite SW movie, but your point is mostly valid. The small difference I’ll suggest is that at least with SW, the Prequels were made by the original creator and you can still feel his vision, oversight, and passion in them.
The 343 Halo trilogy may as well be called generic space shooter number 347 because none of what made the Bungie games great is present, pretty much at all. The only thing I’ll give to 343 is that I believe they did a good job of telling Chief and Cortana’s story in 4, felt like a great send off for their relationship. Everything else 343 did in 4 and has done since has been trash.
Old Halo was amazing because it was so unique from other FPS games (like how you couldn’t even run or aim down your sights and the button layout was so different lol)
I used to play halo CE in the mall with my best friend at the time, coolest thing ever. I wished for it, but never thought I would get it, but then my beloved grandmother bought me an xbox with halo and it was the best thing ever. I played it non-stop with my friends and we had hell of a time playing splitscreen, coop campaign and ofc solo.
Same, never got an Xbox though, had to play halo on pc later, and halo 2 at a friend's. Read the books and was fascinated by the universe .Come halo 3 and I was once again looking at all I could find about it, but my parents would never buy me the 360 so, I had to buy it myself. Played so much doubles, campaign, late night with friends, got my h3 50 in doubles and team slayer etc....
Then came reach... Played it for three weeks, back to halo 3.
i hate how inconsistent the lore is. before infinity in the Kilo Five books Infinity had forerunner shields and engines and colony of Engineers full of Forerunner knowledge. then couple of scrap metal Brute cruisers take it down and its gone from the game.
Well, the Infinity was still fleeing The Created and probably had little to no shields. Not to mention the fact that they were attacked shortly after exiting Slipspace and had barely any time to react
Ha, so many Halo "Killers" that came about but it was its own developers that killed Halo.
Ironic
God LOVES his irony.
There is a fan base for the advanced movement, especially if we consider you are meant to be a super soldier, not a lump of clay.
Halo needs a good story arc, it has been missing one for 12 years.
RIP Master Cheeks
A couple points:
•Microsoft was going to let Halo go, but Bonnie Ross stepped in with the proposal to form 343i and helm the future of Halo.
•Halo Infinite was actually well recieved across the board at launch; including amongst the fan base (with a couple of relatively minor gripes as exceptions). The dropoff came when it was it was announced that season 1 would be six months long, and it became apparent that season 1 wasn't going to receive any substantial technical or content updates. Don't forget; Halo Infinite had over 20 million players at launch; interest is still there, and infinite had the potential to truly capitalize on that again.
It had over 20 million players at launch because the multiplayer is free to play and the campaign was released day 1 on gamepass.
You really can't trust the playercount if a game is on gamepass. How many millions of people played the campaign but never would've bought it? I did. I checked out the campaign, played for 20 hours, uninstalled it, all without buying the game. Had it not been on game pass, I simply would've just not played it.
@@doghat1619 the point isn't about sales, it's about interest. And regardless if it's F2P or on Gamepass, 20 million players is huge, and it shows that Halo (as a franchise), still has general appeal and interest within the broader gaming market.
@@Mythreial How quickly would that 'interest' dry up if people had to pay 60 dollars to try the game?
People are interested in a previously console selling franchise going free to play. How quickly did the 20 million players disappear? Were they still around a month later? A free to play game needs player retention to possibly make money.
@@doghat1619 that is obviously the point I was making... As is why I said that Infinite had the potential to capitalize on that interest, but they dropped the ball. The lack of content and technical fixes within the first season, caused interest to severely drop.
Halo 5 was also very well received and had the 2nd best player retention in the series. This was while the Anti Xbox hate brigade was at its peak and with how far behind the xbox one was compared to the ps4 while the 360 was in the lead and Infinite was on PC.
I dont remember having a single moment of what anyone would classify as "fun" after Reach.
It has always felt like a slog from 4 onward. There were no interesting moments. There was nothing but infinite boredom.
I'm glad I let go and let it die. Now others need to do the same.
Remember what Halo was, not what it's become.
And think of what it could be.
How I would have did It..
-ODST2
-Johnson spin off
-Infinite (but more biomes and add a DMZ mode)
-ODST3
-Than a continuation of the chief story with new lore
They really just need to put MCC on Playstation. Nobody is going to buy "remade" halo 1 for $70 when they could have all the bungie halos for a lesser price.
Really though, when I heard they were remaking the CE, I was like "Ah, taking a page out of BGS's book are we 343?" as I still have LE Skyrim.
I'd argue if they made a better remake for Halo 1 while also adding new features like Forge, new maps, new weapons, etc that you could have a big success.
@@NewtNewt117 It's not going to be better though, it's going to be Halo Infinite 2 with a story that completely butchers the original's. And don't even get me started on how I know they'll fuck up the level design.
@@nagger8216 I really don’t think they would completely change the story, it’s a remake not a reboot
I get “343 bad” but let’s not go around making assumptions they are going to remake Halo 1 and change/butcher the story, they already did a Halo 1 remaster and they didn’t change the story they did however unfortunately butcher the graphics but considering they were rushed by Microsoft to the point where they just had to reuse Halo Reach assets i don’t blame them.
@@NewtNewt117before we get on the 343 protection parade, I want to reiterate they had not made one decent halo game in their entire history. Halo Wars 2 was made by Creative Assembly so don’t get to use that excuse either. People are right to not have faith in any 343 project.
Remaking Halo honestly sounds like the dumbest idea. RE4 got lucky but still lost a lot of its charm. I don't see that happening with 343.
343 half assed all their ideas then gives up on it. The basic premises for 4 and 5 isn't bad in a vacuum, even Infinite, but the executions was so safe that the stories failed to hit what they were trying to do. The worse thing is how 343 is afraid to commit to any story that they just give up and keep doing soft reboots, breaking any audience investment into the storylines.
4 was still the best 343 game because they actually tried to do something different with the story, humanizing Chief. They didn't go far enough, but they still gave us some touching moments. Then 5 came along that threw all the stuff 4 was setting up out the window along with all the emotional investment we had in 4. Then Infinite threw everything previously out again.
I think we just have to accept that nothing is ever gonna strike a chord like Halo did back in the day. It's just an era of gaming that's now over. I'm just grateful there's still folks playing the OG games on MCC so they can still be experienced today.
Love that 343 is still getting roasted for Infinite over 2 years later. They think they’ll just make another game in a couple years and people will forget how much they fucked the franchise. Don’t ever let them forget.
after the acquisition of halos main competitor and the failure of the show i think Microsoft is just gonna scrap the franchise since they dont need it anymore. they already have a successful multi media franchise with fallout so why would they risk more money with a failed IP like halo
@@exilestudios9546 Ngl I think Microsoft is thinking about replacing Halo with DOOM...
Never Forget
I think 343 completely disregarding forge and community custom games during the era where Minecraft and Roblox were dominating the gaming scene was the biggest reason Halo failed. They tried to make a CSGO style competitive shooter when people just want to play fat kid or race maps with their friends.
The Star Wars comparison is pretty apt because for fans of the lore they explained a lot of stuff that should’ve been left unexplained, like midichlorians. I wish 343 respected the source material enough to understand that the forerunners aren’t interesting if we know everything about them.
The fact that they just made Forerunners again (Precursors) because they had explained everything about their shitty interpretation of them like what shit the Didact took the morning the Halo Rings fired just proves that point
And then they pulled that shit AGAIN in Infinite with the Endless
My recipe for remaking Halo: CE is pretty simple:
Get 16 or so veteran game devs to form a core team. Ideally ones who haven't been paying attention to new Halo in a long, long time and haven't been 'tainted' by anything from the 343 era. Pay for a 2 week retreat for all those devs to go live in together in a house or two with nothing but 2001 era Xboxes, controllers, Pizza Hut and and Mountain Dew on deck, The Matrix, Alien, Predator, 2001: A Space Odyssey on DVD, and of course the consoles rigged up on LAN. Get everyone playing the game over and over, having multiplayer sessions long into the night, trying to pull of tricks, trying to beat Legendary, and generally immersing themselves in the Lore. Have them watching Quicktime videos of the original warthog jousting. Reading the lore theories on H.B.O. and just create a time capsule where they can start really geeking out about the original game, as it existed, in its context. Get them copies of The Fall of Reach on paperback. Reading the books and the smell of the pulp and the visions of warthogs and marines from the game flashing in your head.
As they're immersed in all that, they can spend time talking about "what do I really wish this game had? What stuff would be really cool to include? If I had unlimited budget to add things to the game, what would I want to see? And what bits of lore don't make sense? What areas do I wish we could see that were cut?
Then after they've started to form some pretty strong internal motivations and have their own ideas, introduce these devs slowly to whatever archives exist of the development materials from the original Bungie days. All the concept art, cut content, level descriptions, story and lore. Give them the Game Bible that we all theorized about back in the day.
After that, keep these time-capsule homes active. As new groups of devs come on board, send them off to re-live this same experiment. Have them playing the original for what it was and how it was. Get them excited and curious for what we saw when we first played it. So that they can join the team having had that same Halo Boot Camp.
That mindset and environment, IMO, would build a team hungry to create something that properly captures the feeling of Halo: CE and would have the true potential to create a re-make that both honors the original in tone and feel but also makes it a game closer to what many of us wish it was when we were playing.
A team without that core foundation will turn any remake into something more like Infinite 2. A team without that collective experience to ground them will start going off in wild directions, making the game into something it fundamentally should not be.
Of course 343 and/or MS probably doesn't give a shit about that. 343 has demonstrated that it largely lacks people at the core who care about Halo in a way where they want to capture the magic. They only want to capture the numbers and hype, but fundamentally don't understand how to do that.
343's writing for Halo always felt like a fanfiction to me. Red plasma swords and elites integrating into a human-controlled universe are literally ideas I used in my own Halo fanfics in like middle school (around when H3 released)
Don't even get me started on "The Banished" or "The Created"
It's Frank's shitty fanfic with his edgy DeviantArt OCs. They're still afraid to kill off (for good) his OC by the way, FFS. Dies, gets revived in a comic, dies again, revived in a coloring book (lmao) and he's still alive when he should have been killed off 12 YEARS AGO. It's as bad as WoW writing
Red plasma swords and the banished are metal af
@@NightShinerStudio I just wish it didn't come at the cost of trying to powercreep the Covenant though with stupid statements of "the Covenant nearly wiped us out but never got close with the Banished". 343 has a bad tendency with comparing their new factions to old ones to one-up them and it annoys me to no end
@@Nighterac I get it, though to be fair Halo Wars 2 was made by a different studio
@@NightShinerStudio I know, but they still had to conform to what 343 told them to do. They still had to follow their lore. Hence why you get the legendary ending of Anders finding a Guardian to tie in to Halo 5. The Banished were always going to be in Infinite regardless since they were a 343 idea. People just happened to like them because the alternatives were complete garbage
It's just funny because they suddenly remembered Brutes exist
You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain
If you truly went over everything 343i has fucked up over their time with Halo you could have a video 12 hours long.
Hell, lets talk about the time 343i employee Snickerdoodle joined my game of MCC just to have their friend they joined with accuse me of bad shit before leaving. I have video proof too so I'm not just making shit up.
Would be very interested in seeing that👀
@@jacobdearman4964 I can't link it directly because of RUclips's spam prevention but it's on my channel. It's titled "Harassment from a 343i employee and their friend".
The video is edited with a memey feel and wasn't made by me but rather someone else I was in the lobby with because frankly I was too surprised when this happened and forgot to record it myself. The gist is I was in a custom games browser game in MCC when suddenly snickerdoodle and another player joined at the same time. The other player called me a p*do then they both left. I look at their profile and lo and behold both that guy who called me a p*do and Snickerdoodle were in an Xbox Live party together. There is being unprofessional and then there is this. Also of note is as soon as I started talking about it online on places like Twitter and such my account on the Waypoint forums(the now dead official 343i forums) was locked without reason given and I was banned from the Halo Twitch chat. So take that as you will.
It's honestly so sad, but I'm just glad I got to experience the golden age of Bungie Halo
They already remade the halo games. The MCC
If they do it again, the only way would be to make 'creative' changes.
Prepare for desecration.
15:39 This sums up classic Halo in some ways, it is supposed to be slow, that's a large part of what made it work. On top of this majority of the weapons were projectile based in Halo CE and 3 which is again, a large reason so many still adore the multiplayer in those games, the slow movement with projectile weapons are what made Halo unique, it made positioning matter, it's why some people say classic halo is like chess.
When you add fast movement and hitscan weapons it becomes just another shooter like any other, it looses its identity, positioning becomes less important because you can always just quickly sprint away out of danger, and targets at a distance are too easy to hit because you don't need to lead them due to hitscan which limits map design options.
Hitscan with fast movement is exactly what Halo has been stuck with since Reach, and on top of that 343i focuses on Halo being a competitive shooter when it was always intended by Bungie to be a social one.
So overall, 343i has been tuning halo to fight in an over saturated market of hitscan competitive shooters from the beginning rather than embracing what Halo originally was, a slow social shooter with projectile weapons to compliment the movement speed and gameplay that rewarded you for holding power positions like chess.
I never played Halo but Red v Blue was one of the very first web-series I was completely hooked on
Remember when franchises knew when to end? Or not turn into franchises at all?
Those were the days. I miss those days.
Halo should be made like how ID makes Doom... Small team dedicated team that care about Halo.
There is no reason Halo can't be as good as an ID Software game.
If you were working for a company and were put in charge of 3 projects, and all three projects were utter failures. Do you think you would be fired?
The only future for halo is MCC mods right now. Dinosaurs to halo is the way foward
The ability of large comparations to run beloved IP into the ground is truly astounding
Is the remake gonna have split screen for couch coop or are they gonna crap on Halo fan nostalgia again?