I realize that using Time Spy to demonstrate a GPU bottleneck (especially during the _graphics_ section of the test) was a bit silly. The point I was making in general was that a Ryzen 5 1600/2600 will most certainly be held back in most games by a 4GB RX 570. Also, be sure to watch the very end of this video for a silly Easter egg!
One to the times you called it a 1600af... If that's true, they can be overclocked to hell!! Mine hits 4.3 @ 1.37v, with a different cooler obvi! Edit: hahaha, gotta watch all the way to the end!
@@Joker-no1fz i get what your coming from and i agree it isnt as terrible as I've seen. But by default your a hair bias because of the fact ya do prebuilts yourself, so i dont feel it adds much perspective beyond theirs people who charge more for prebuilding a pc. Just pointing out the conflict of intrest here, I'm sure your somewhat self aware of this. But saying its this x price because of y is about all that i gleam. Which hey I get it's semi-standard practice on certain transactions for the buyer to pay the payment processing fees and business isnt a charity. (I live in a small town and if a transactions is under $5 on a card there's a fee. When that is the case they charge the flat rate instead of percentage which ends up being less than the flat)
@@Joker-no1fz it's true to a certain degree that you definitely could make a descentish buck. But there's some issues, theirs cost of time you spend building it. we can narrow this down by using the same parts and doing the same build over and over again. This will bring down the time investment on building it. There's taxes that have to be paid, if you want to keep a descent reputation theirs also the cost of any warranty/support they may require. which will be higher than most people expect due to someone buying a pre-built has no idea how to fix x simple issue. Which you can expedite this some with canned responses for common things, though you have to be careful with how you do so. otherwise you'll piss them off and your rep takes a hit . The fact that you have to compete with all the other people doing it within a price range that is profitable enough to cover said cost of x this and that. There's also storing inventory, there's paying for shipping insurance, paying for proper packing material, The packing material you can work out by buying in bulk. There's the importance of diversifying your sources of income and places to sell. Putting all your eggs into one basket and leaning on it is always a terrible idea. Let's say one day you get banned from eBay or paypal for some reason, doesn't matter why. let's just say it happened, well now you have a bunch of inventory that you keep in stock without your traditional means of turning them over. Also the time that you will have to spend dealing with payment systems and watching out for people who buy something and then issue a chargeback for x reason. There's also the fact that the buyer is favored on eBay when it comes for them to pick sides. As a buyer that's great, as a seller that could be very problematic. There is so much that goes into it, it isn't as simple as it appears on the surface . there's definitely ways you could take to address complications, also it kinda sounded like ya were saying ya sold them based on what ya said.
@@aightm8 yeah stuff like that is fine as far as selling. Done one or two myself a times myself locally/repair services. I also agree with the cutting corner stuff. But the non-unlocked CPUs is mostly to avoid people blowing up their stuff when trying to overclock. Most of them don't know they're doing anyway, but there's no actual way to tell that is what happened and they have to warranty it for 2-3 years. They also get better prices for buying locked CPUs as well. Tray pricing and such gose down because of it, single channel ram is inexcusable for sure. But again I bet this comes down to cost, Even companies like NZXT don't get that much of a margin in comparison to cost though, So maximizing profit is extremely important thing to work on. Also naw with the volume on eBay most move it doesn't require more then 2 people at best.
@@ryze9153 i paid for mine, it’s my first decent computer. I was using an old celeron + 9300ge combo with 1GB ram. As I am in high school, I was only able to work in summer break, and it took me 2 months to get the money for it. But it’s worth it, my first PC :D
Though building computers by yourself is always cheaper you do have to factor in production costs and overhead that companies have. This is often overlooked when reviewing prebuilds.
That’s pretty cool they sent you one for review probably knowing you don’t hold punches. Hopefully the company takes your advice and offers a more compelling product for the same price.
I agree with your view on the not-the-best option graphics card but I assume why they spent more on the case is for aesthetics reasons, as the general consumer would more likely quicker watch that instead of the specs and that may also help catch their attention when they're browsing the catalog
That's the point! A vast majority of the stuff I review is "sent for free." These companies obviously expect me to put in labor to create videos around their products, but the conclusions I make are solely my own based on my own tests and observations. Standard "independent reviewer" stuff (at least, that's how it *should* be).
you say get a cheaper case and not worry about aesthetics but the thing is I've watched people at Wal-Mart and best buy see RGB and think because it has all kinds of lights its a good system, when the black case next to it with no glass panel is better specs for the price . i have an ad on Facebook marketplace to build PC's for a month or so now and I've built a couple but my several pics i have on my ad have all rainbow puke rgb in them lol , its working so far!
Hey Greg, great breakdown. If you could do more system reviews from other pre-built vendors, that would be great. Also, if you could detail some of the warranty information, customer service support and what the online experience is like ordering a respective system, that would be icing on the proverbial cake. Great channel, let's get to 1MM subscribers.
I worked at FedEx loading trucks before. when I first started I would put everything in nice as i could and made sure not to damage any packages. My supervisor came one day and said don't do it like that then proceed to toss and smash boxes into the truck lol
more like $140 on average with the 3600 being $199 average and 2600 being $140 since as you know it's the same silicon as 1600 AF just underclocked. they have gone up in the last year since pandemic cuz 3600 used to be $179 most places. I have got lucky with 2 1600 AF for $100 but not in a long time. I sold one in a build and sold the other in box for $140.
@@jpesicka492 I've found AF for $100, 2600 for $140. Problem is 3300x beats both for $129. WHEN it's available...oh n I find 3600 for $175 average. Edit:just found 2600 for 133
I honestly think it's a good buy. Windows key, shipping, system warrantee and tech support is worth it IMO. Plus if I'm buying this for my kid and (s)he wants a better gpu (s)he can always save up and install it after.
The main thing I dislike prebuilts is their corner-cutting practices and weak aesthetics. Computers like from Alienware has a unique case design that puts it different from normal cases. Power supplies don’t offer PSUs with wattage overhead for upgrades in the future. System builders need to differentiate their products from what someone can do in their free time. If their audience are young PC enthusiasts, they can do all that. If their audience are parents, they will either buy the cheapest or most expensive computer or go for Dell, HP, or Apple. Even offering a free overclocking / undervolting BIOS profile will appease the younger crowd. Or letting the customer choose how big a heatsink they want so that the customer can overclock themselves.
RGB fans in a budget system do not make sense, those things are expensive. That money should go to core components. I'd recommend using a rgb light strip instead.
I bought someone's never used wraith prism on ebay for $18 shipped. Tons of those on there from people who buy R9s. Cheapest way to add RGB if you have a lower sku ryzen. Cooling is apparently 20-30% better than the stealth too. AMD has stopped bundling threadrippers with air coolers because duh but there are still a good amount available.
greg want company to work for free for some reason, obviously they put in 570 to get the system to be cheaper, a $200 markup is COMMON for prebuild putting 1660 ti just makes the build more expensive!
I was looking for this on the comments. You're absolutely right, RAM sticks should be in 2nd and 4th slot (DIMM _A2 and DIMM_B2) for dual channel. Pretty disappointed Greg fails to mention it.
@@HazewinDog not usually no but the motherboard manual for this specific board does say use A2 and B2 if you have dual modules and A2 for a single module. Even though it wouldn't make that big of a difference to someone that isn't Computer savvy it could be quite confusing reading it in the manual and seeing it done differently in the system they had sent. It may also interfere with the CPU cooler if they decide to upgrade it.
you did a sponsorship with nzxt with their prebuilts. i3 and 1650 non- super. Explain to me how you can call this bad when you literally promoted something worse
Im trying to get into the business of selling PCs I build on ebay and FB marketplace, and it's definitely challenging. This may be naive, but even though all the other larger ebay sellers save money by cheaping out on components to make a larger profit, knowing they can get away with it because a lot of buyers may not know any better, I do my best to make sure the systems I build are quality, because I actually take pride in my work. At the end of the day Im making a bit of money, getting experience, and having fun building systems!
I'm in the same boat as you. People hit me up and they are like I need a computer and then I spec them something out with decent parts and then they are like I found a guy that can build me something for $200 less....and I'm like how? Add to that I really would like to specialize in Small Form Factor and it's been a rough go of it.
I spent the whole video looking at the RAM being in the wrong slots. Yes, they are running dual channel, but the position could cause OC stability issues, if it was 1st gen ryzen (AE) then it could fail to run @3200
I think the case helps to sell the pc, regardless of the price point. Anymore, having a glass side panel is what people want. But, for the price point, paying $100 for a case is dumb. I just recently bought a case for a older setup, just to make it look modern. It's a Montech X1 with a glass side panel and it includes rgb fans. Although static rgb fans. Overall, for the price, it's a solid case and much cheaper than the one they used. So in my opinion, I'd keep the cpu they had, but change the gpu to an 8 gig model. The Sapphire RX 280 Nitro 8 gig model is around $220 or so on Newegg and the 1660 ti is close to $300. So in the end, it ends up being a bit more expensive than the current price they are offering, but having 4 more gigs of vram may help? And it still looks nice, even if the case fans are static! Maybe your next video could be you building a $700 system and comparing the two. But I would check out the case I mentioned.
the build isn't THAT bad but i do agree they should have cut back on the case, rgb fans/controller and put in at least a 1650 super i understand they want to make the system look pretty but such a strong emphasis on aesthetic in a budget build isn't a good idea, performance suffers too much
I paired a 1600AF (when they were reasonably priced back in April) with a 1660 Super for a friend of mine around this budget, it seems a lot more balanced than this was with its RX 570. I am to the point where I want to upgrade my RX 590 which went from being paired with a Intel 4790K to a Ryzen 3600XT.
I think the system is pretty reasonable for what they are offering. The company gotta make some money and if a 1660 is put in then the price of the system must go up.
Out of curiosity - does the system include an OS at that price? If you take that as well as labour into consideration, the price tag seems a lot more reasonable.
Most of these smaller SI's only have access to certain products when buying wholesale. They still have to make their margins. I agree they can improve on the parts used but their target is not necessarily the pc builders but more like someone who doesn't know how to build one and just want an intro gaming pc...Again the more the reason to learn how to build one.
Even a Nvidia Geforce GTX 660 would play most modern games very well. The only problem I have with AMD graphics cards was back before AMD took them over, the card I got for my computer fried itself in less than 6 months, but that was when Radion was running the show, I told myself I would not go back. Anyways, but I might have to revisit it because AMD bought them out so I may have to try them again. especially with Nvidia current cards being so pricey for their RTX series, however, I wouldn't recommend a RTX card with a with any build below the equivalent of 3rd and 4th gen processors for Intel and whatever the equivalent for AMD.
Whilst I totally agree you can build a system to be better, without the LED bling it will not sell as a pre-built gaming system in this market. A cheaper case for sure, and budget SSD. The 1600AF is Zen+ so same generation as 2600. The 3100 is a great great choice at this price and would allow a 580 or 1650/60 card to be included.
That fans is just $20 here in our country, that additional price for a low rpm fan is really really suspicious. I agree with this, such a waste of money on this pre-built pc.
I personally think it's better to get a better CPU and budget the GPU in a budget gaming rig, even though it will be worse for gaming, eventually you can upgrade the GPU without worrying about needing a new CPU(and maybe MB). A 1650 super will get you playable FPS at lower settings in pretty much every game.
Maybe do a comparative study of warranty servicing among the the big brand names? This stuff appears to me to be a dollar sense decision and implementation practice on msi's part, based upon market clout and consumer laws and regs in the market countries.
The GTX 1660Ti is also held back by the Ryzen 3 3100, and a lot of AAA games take a hit went just going 4 cores. I'd rather have a faster base system with the Ryzen 5 1600, since changing a graphics cards later on is a 5min swap and any one can do it.
It’s an 8-threaded chip. Slower, less efficient 6 core CPU vs. faster, more efficient 4 core CPU. Games generally prefer the latter. I’ll make a video on this comparison soon :-) Also, if the argument is simplicity, it takes a similar amount of time to swap the CPU in this build. Remove the stock cooler with a screwdriver, lift the socket lever, and there ya go.
I think this PC would be fine for a general purpose computer. I would say that it's underpowered for gaming. It's a clean PC and was built thoughtfully, but the components just lack some oomph to push it to the correct level.
Would it be fair to say that this shouldn't be considered a 700$ build but more of a 700$ prebuilt? You do you mention labor cost at the end, but let's not forget that they also need to make a profit. I think it's fair to expect that a 700$ prebuilt would actually be a 500$ build or so. So if they were to make your proposed system, they might have to sell it for 800$ and the same problem would arise. Anyway, I'd say if this your budget, build it yourself!
I don't agree with your case choice. I've had to live with a cheap case before. It's not really worth. Bad to build in, no room for cable management, looks ugly, bad build quality, bad psu placement, no airflow means you have no room for overclocking and not much room for upgrades. Not a great idea all things considered. In my opinion the absolute least you should spend on a case is for something like the Cougar MX330 and a fan or two to go with it, bringing your total up to 40 bucks. And that's still kinda pushing it. In reality, 50 bucks is the minimum price for a case with modern features and a decent enough build. I used a 20 dollar case for my budget build for a while in 2017 and I just found it kind of intolerable, so I ended up spending more in the end than I would have if I'd just paid for a good case from the get-go. Though, if you really can't fit a good case in your budget, there is an argument to be made for buying the absolute cheapest 20 dollar ATX case you can afford and then rebuilding your PC when you have 80 or 100 bucks to spare for a case that will actually look good.
I totally agree that the RX 570 is a no go, but the Ryzen 5 1600 AF is NOT first gen Ryzen, it actually is Zen+ and performs more similar to the 2600 than the first gen 1600. Either way, I agree that the Ryzen 3 3100 is way better for a budget gaming PC
Ram is in the wrong slots, i have this exact motherboard for one of my lower end pcs the manual clearly says if you are only using two sticks use A2 and B2 not A1 and B1,
@@vipervidsgamingplus5723 yes you would have to build. Parents buying young kids first PC aren't going to dump all the parts on his/her desk. When I buy fast food, I don't complain they used $2.50 of ingredients and charged me $6-8 for it. They. Are. A. Business!
Honestly, this isn't that bad. It's not priced right, but it's definitely one of the best pre-builts I've ever seen. It even trumps lots of alienware and ibuypower PCs that are more expensive in terms of cable management, power supply choice, and even case quality. I would personally think they could remove the RGB fans option and use that money for the GPU.
I'd almost be willing to put money on the components either coming at steep discount from somewhere, or used. Builds like this always make me assume they're cutting corners to make thicker profit margins.
Those darkflash dr12pro fans are extremely weak in terms of air pressure and airflow even with the max of 1200rpm. I got rid of them recently coz the cooling are a joke especially with restricted airflow and dust filter.
I'm not sure why you didn't check if it was a 12nm or 14nm 1600... I wondered the entire video if you made sure to check or not. Don't forget to check next time lol
wanna ask for some PC pricing advice. planning to sell an old system for $520usd. its rocking an i5 4690K, Z97 Asrock anniversary motherboard, 2x4GB 2400mhz DDR3 ram, a gtx 970, a 240GB SSD, 1TB HDD and a 600w 80+ bronze PSU. am I asking too much or is it a decent price?
This statement only applies if all of their systems are given the same level attention to detail and not just this one as they new it was going to be shown to thousands of people. I can’t say anything to the parts selected, but just based on the way the system is put together aesthetically I would take one of their systems over an Alienware!
You have to understand it's a business, for 700 bucks new it's still a decent price for a prebuilt. They probably profit like 150 dollars at the very most which most place charges $150 labor fees anyway
The 8gb 570 would have been a better match if you can't spend too much more even if the card can't fully use that amount it does give it a bit less of a bottleneck
If Optimaltex is checking out the comment section - I understand that looks sell to many, but performance does sell to others. Perhaps, offer the systems as basic plain performance oriented systems and have a 'dress up' option to upgrade them to the RGB glass options in the pictures. It looks like the build quality is there, but I also agree that the part selection is quite dated when it comes to the GPU and that offering this system at a cheaper price point with a basic case and probably a quad core if it saves on the budget would make it more attractive to buyers.
Contrary to popular belief the looks don't actually drive the price up much for system integrators. I can't state the actual price but it's literally cheaper to use rgb fans and stuff than regular fans off the shelf. Logistics, labor, and tax is what drives up the price which is unavoidable for smaller companies. I run Elixir Gaming a small system integration business out of Fresno, CA. My builds are slightly higher than whats listed here but with a rx 580 tier card so i can definitely relate.
@@SaveTheSunF1R3x Yeah - it's still $50 or so cheaper and you can loss leader with 'starts at' pricing with whatever the cheapest case with built in fans happens to be and then have the appearance package that most consumers would actually want rather than a simple box. The idea being that instead of looking at the site and seeing 800 for a ryzen 5 and rx 580, they'd see 700. Though I completely understand that this would mean more physical space to store it. By having photos of the appearance system with the starting at prices of the 'basics' version, it would likely raise ASP.
@@cracklingice As stated it costs us very little to do (you'd be surprised). it's quite literally an auto include for most. Think of the cheapest case imaginable you can purchase off the shelf. It's basically that to us. Logistics of A to B to C (C is system integrators) is what drives up case prices not the actual bill of materials. People like cyberpower etc can do it that way because the whole process is done at A not C. if that makes any sense? Basically they're able to skip a step because it's all done at the manufacturing process. In order for me to do it the way you suggested would require me to inflate the rgb prices. Why? when i can just offer rgb included for cheaper than your standard builder and the end user gains more perceived value.
@@SaveTheSunF1R3x So what you're saying is you can't buy a generic (but sufficient) case for less than the one with tempered glass and RGB fans included because I see the difference on the shelf between whatever is cheapest but sufficient and something that meets the TG and RGB checkbox. Also - I'd add cable extensions (and non stock cooler) to make the appearance package a bit more worth the upgrade. That being said there could be economies of scale and simply the cost of storing more SKUs of cases that takes away all of that price difference that I can't really see as I don't need to have components for a hundred or more systems on hand nor do I buy direct from distributors.
@@cracklingice you are absolutely correct. non stock coolers are cheap as are cable extensions. the latter not being worth it unless in a higher end build. as the visibility is limited and at least for the psus i use, the cables look good. Here's an example of a slightly more expensive prebuilt using the same specs as mentioned: imgur.com/a/ils8Zad
I don't think going with a cheaper case will be a viable alternative for this company because they need rgb and a TG case to sell PC's, The sad truth is that people don't care about performance, they care about looks adn RGB puke.
There are plenty of cheaper - and, frankly, _better looking_ - cases on the market. And an RGB strip is much cheaper than RGB fans. Like I said in the video, the budget was allocated poorly for this system.
Recently on Craigslist I saw a used pc with a ryzen 5 2600 and a GTX 1070 for $700. Do you think this is a good deal? It was also posted a few days ago so it's probably more negotiable
@@postedinthecut1565 ok thanks. It has radiator water-cooler, 16 gb of 3000mhz ram, 500 gigs of sad storage with a 1 tb hard drive. I think it is a good deal but I just wanted some expert opinions
Something about the sharpness in this video made your facial hair look like it came straight out of a Borderlands game for some reason... weird thing to notice but now I can't un-see it.
I realize that using Time Spy to demonstrate a GPU bottleneck (especially during the _graphics_ section of the test) was a bit silly. The point I was making in general was that a Ryzen 5 1600/2600 will most certainly be held back in most games by a 4GB RX 570. Also, be sure to watch the very end of this video for a silly Easter egg!
One to the times you called it a 1600af... If that's true, they can be overclocked to hell!! Mine hits 4.3 @ 1.37v, with a different cooler obvi!
Edit: hahaha, gotta watch all the way to the end!
You kept talking about the cpu being zen, but I heard 1600af a few times. Is that not zen +?
@Busman 123 See the end of the video LOL. It’s literally in the pinned comment.
1600 AF is great match for rx570, going lower than that doesn't make sense, you basically only have 1200 AF which is much weaker.
@@riba2233 watch the end as he said. It was an af. I personally thought it was over so I stopped lol.
That right there is a custom $500 PC marked up to $700.
True lol. Hi.
@@Joker-no1fz yeah, they have to make money somehow
@@Joker-no1fz i get what your coming from and i agree it isnt as terrible as I've seen.
But by default your a hair bias because of the fact ya do prebuilts yourself, so i dont feel it adds much perspective beyond theirs people who charge more for prebuilding a pc.
Just pointing out the conflict of intrest here, I'm sure your somewhat self aware of this. But saying its this x price because of y is about all that i gleam. Which hey I get it's semi-standard practice on certain transactions for the buyer to pay the payment processing fees and business isnt a charity.
(I live in a small town and if a transactions is under $5 on a card there's a fee. When that is the case they charge the flat rate instead of percentage which ends up being less than the flat)
@@Joker-no1fz it's true to a certain degree that you definitely could make a descentish buck. But there's some issues, theirs cost of time you spend building it.
we can narrow this down by using the same parts and doing the same build over and over again. This will bring down the time investment on building it.
There's taxes that have to be paid, if you want to keep a descent reputation theirs also the cost of any warranty/support they may require.
which will be higher than most people expect due to someone buying a pre-built has no idea how to fix x simple issue.
Which you can expedite this some with canned responses for common things, though you have to be careful with how you do so. otherwise you'll piss them off and your rep takes a hit .
The fact that you have to compete with all the other people doing it within a price range that is profitable enough to cover said cost of x this and that. There's also storing inventory, there's paying for shipping insurance, paying for proper packing material,
The packing material you can work out by buying in bulk.
There's the importance of diversifying your sources of income and places to sell. Putting all your eggs into one basket and leaning on it is always a terrible idea.
Let's say one day you get banned from eBay or paypal for some reason, doesn't matter why. let's just say it happened, well now you have a bunch of inventory that you keep in stock without your traditional means of turning them over.
Also the time that you will have to spend dealing with payment systems and watching out for people who buy something and then issue a chargeback for x reason. There's also the fact that the buyer is favored on eBay when it comes for them to pick sides. As a buyer that's great, as a seller that could be very problematic.
There is so much that goes into it, it isn't as simple as it appears on the surface . there's definitely ways you could take to address complications, also it kinda sounded like ya were saying ya sold them based on what ya said.
@@aightm8 yeah stuff like that is fine as far as selling. Done one or two myself a times myself locally/repair services.
I also agree with the cutting corner stuff.
But the non-unlocked CPUs is mostly to avoid people blowing up their stuff when trying to overclock.
Most of them don't know they're doing anyway, but there's no actual way to tell that is what happened and they have to warranty it for 2-3 years. They also get better prices for buying locked CPUs as well. Tray pricing and such gose down because of it, single channel ram is inexcusable for sure.
But again I bet this comes down to cost, Even companies like NZXT don't get that much of a margin in comparison to cost though, So maximizing profit is extremely important thing to work on. Also naw with the volume on eBay most move it doesn't require more then 2 people at best.
I use to work at UPS like 15 years ago, there were people that would throw boxes more if it said that it was fragile.
Also worked at ups warehouse. Ive seen boxs tossed, dropped and kicked lol
Me: laughs in $200 Optiplex with RX 580
Me: *cries in $1916 cyberpower with 9900k+2070 super*
@@ryze9153 i know, im broke lol
@@yxngsellei oof man. I didnt pay for mine either. Lol. But im hoping to be able to get a radeon rx 6800/6800 xt.
@@ryze9153 i paid for mine, it’s my first decent computer. I was using an old celeron + 9300ge combo with 1GB ram. As I am in high school, I was only able to work in summer break, and it took me 2 months to get the money for it. But it’s worth it, my first PC :D
@@yxngsellei well regardless, good on you man.
Though building computers by yourself is always cheaper you do have to factor in production costs and overhead that companies have. This is often overlooked when reviewing prebuilds.
I probably shouldn't buy this PC, but I definitely should watch this episode of Greg Salazar.
A slize of the Salazar!
Marco here after tech yes city 3070 video
i see you every day, in every single video of techyes
Title: You probably shouldn't buy this pc
Me: don't worry, I can't
That’s pretty cool they sent you one for review probably knowing you don’t hold punches. Hopefully the company takes your advice and offers a more compelling product for the same price.
I agree with your view on the not-the-best option graphics card but I assume why they spent more on the case is for aesthetics reasons, as the general consumer would more likely quicker watch that instead of the specs and that may also help catch their attention when they're browsing the catalog
Probably who understand those numbers will build their own system.
This is why I tell people not to buy prebuilt Swiss Army Knives. Real Master Race build their own.
Wait, if you build a PC with a Swiss Army knife. What do you build a Swiss Army Knife with then?
Hey hey hey, you're a fake! I'm the real Stefan! You couldn't even spell Verge properly!
Also gimme my thermal paste
@@stefanetienne4448 OMG, are you ... are you my long lost brother. Mom said I had one. I love you bro.
Stefan.. Thermal paste
thank you for being honest even though it was sent to you for free
That's the point! A vast majority of the stuff I review is "sent for free." These companies obviously expect me to put in labor to create videos around their products, but the conclusions I make are solely my own based on my own tests and observations. Standard "independent reviewer" stuff (at least, that's how it *should* be).
@@GregSalazar you treat them the same way you treat CPUs. If it's good, it's good. If it's a fx 8150, it's bad
The way the door opens 😲 the smallest details make all the difference. Love it.
you say get a cheaper case and not worry about aesthetics but the thing is I've watched people at Wal-Mart and best buy see RGB and think because it has all kinds of lights its a good system, when the black case next to it with no glass panel is better specs for the price . i have an ad on Facebook marketplace to build PC's for a month or so now and I've built a couple but my several pics i have on my ad have all rainbow puke rgb in them lol , its working so far!
Hey Greg, great breakdown. If you could do more system reviews from other pre-built vendors, that would be great. Also, if you could detail some of the warranty information, customer service support and what the online experience is like ordering a respective system, that would be icing on the proverbial cake. Great channel, let's get to 1MM subscribers.
I worked at FedEx loading trucks before. when I first started I would put everything in nice as i could and made sure not to damage any packages. My supervisor came one day and said don't do it like that then proceed to toss and smash boxes into the truck lol
Same with UPS dude just toss it in make it fit who caresm
It said AF in product specs in the beginning of the video. When you chose a 2600 I kinda scratched my head. The AF is usually $100.
more like $140 on average with the 3600 being $199 average and 2600 being $140 since as you know it's the same silicon as 1600 AF just underclocked. they have gone up in the last year since pandemic cuz 3600 used to be $179 most places. I have got lucky with 2 1600 AF for $100 but not in a long time. I sold one in a build and sold the other in box for $140.
@@jpesicka492 I've found AF for $100, 2600 for $140. Problem is 3300x beats both for $129. WHEN it's available...oh n I find 3600 for $175 average.
Edit:just found 2600 for 133
He mentions it at the very very end that it’s the AF.
@@Trick-Framed I got my 2600x for 100$ lol.
@@drewmalbica7694 It's shown on screen near the beginning.
Challenge accepted! I will write fragile every inch on the box and send a PC through the mail.
I honestly think it's a good buy. Windows key, shipping, system warrantee and tech support is worth it IMO.
Plus if I'm buying this for my kid and (s)he wants a better gpu (s)he can always save up and install it after.
Your channel definitely deserves my subs!
Just think if you could actually buy a Ryzen 3300X , I have one in my backup computer and its a kick butt CPU
They are very hard to find. That was my first choice too. But went with a 3100 upgrade kit this week.
The main thing I dislike prebuilts is their corner-cutting practices and weak aesthetics. Computers like from Alienware has a unique case design that puts it different from normal cases. Power supplies don’t offer PSUs with wattage overhead for upgrades in the future. System builders need to differentiate their products from what someone can do in their free time.
If their audience are young PC enthusiasts, they can do all that. If their audience are parents, they will either buy the cheapest or most expensive computer or go for Dell, HP, or Apple.
Even offering a free overclocking / undervolting BIOS profile will appease the younger crowd. Or letting the customer choose how big a heatsink they want so that the customer can overclock themselves.
It honestly looks like they may have listened to you. Dark Gaming 1600 now has a Ryzen 5 3100 and GTX 1660. They bumped the price up 49.99 though.
Build this exact PC and throw a 2070 in and you've got a great build.
You'd probably need a larger psu
@@knight0351 nope, I have almost this exact build running on a 500w unit. Only difference is I'm using a 2070 Super.
@@seanmcgee6766 why not 5700xt? I doubt you’d be able to fit a 2070 in $700 budget with those parts
@@Dg47PRO I used to have a 5700xt when the drivers were a nightmare so I'd never recommend one.
@@seanmcgee6766 I have one rn, and it’s great, drivers have no problems
RGB fans in a budget system do not make sense, those things are expensive. That money should go to core components. I'd recommend using a rgb light strip instead.
I bought someone's never used wraith prism on ebay for $18 shipped. Tons of those on there from people who buy R9s. Cheapest way to add RGB if you have a lower sku ryzen. Cooling is apparently 20-30% better than the stealth too. AMD has stopped bundling threadrippers with air coolers because duh but there are still a good amount available.
greg want company to work for free for some reason, obviously they put in 570 to get the system to be cheaper, a $200 markup is COMMON for prebuild putting 1660 ti just makes the build more expensive!
Is the ram actually in right slot for this board, because its usually the 2nd and 4th slot.
I was looking for this on the comments. You're absolutely right, RAM sticks should be in 2nd and 4th slot (DIMM _A2 and DIMM_B2) for dual channel. Pretty disappointed Greg fails to mention it.
They look like the are in 1 and 3 which should be fine on modern motherboards, but traditionally it was the 2nd and 4th for dual channel.
Mine runs in 1st and 3rd on my board
doesn't matter in most modern motherboards
@@HazewinDog not usually no but the motherboard manual for this specific board does say use A2 and B2 if you have dual modules and A2 for a single module. Even though it wouldn't make that big of a difference to someone that isn't Computer savvy it could be quite confusing reading it in the manual and seeing it done differently in the system they had sent. It may also interfere with the CPU cooler if they decide to upgrade it.
you did a sponsorship with nzxt with their prebuilts. i3 and 1650 non- super. Explain to me how you can call this bad when you literally promoted something worse
Because it’s a sponsorship. How many RUclipsrs do you think actually play raid shadow legends?
Love your advice. I've learned so much since I first started watching about 4 years ago. Great job as always.
I did the same thing with PC Part Picker, for $711 I was able to squeeze a 2060 in the build 🤘🏼
Im trying to get into the business of selling PCs I build on ebay and FB marketplace, and it's definitely challenging. This may be naive, but even though all the other larger ebay sellers save money by cheaping out on components to make a larger profit, knowing they can get away with it because a lot of buyers may not know any better, I do my best to make sure the systems I build are quality, because I actually take pride in my work. At the end of the day Im making a bit of money, getting experience, and having fun building systems!
That's the minset bro
I'm in the same boat as you. People hit me up and they are like I need a computer and then I spec them something out with decent parts and then they are like I found a guy that can build me something for $200 less....and I'm like how? Add to that I really would like to specialize in Small Form Factor and it's been a rough go of it.
@@jerrardbeasley4247 I imagine it's hard to sell prebuilt SFF. People don't believe the itx tax until they feel it themselves.
I noticed the AF but still agree with you about that video card.
I spent the whole video looking at the RAM being in the wrong slots. Yes, they are running dual channel, but the position could cause OC stability issues, if it was 1st gen ryzen (AE) then it could fail to run @3200
1st gen Ryzen is extremely stubborn when it comes to memory clocks either way. Not a single kit I paired a Ryzen 5 1600 with could get past 2666 MHz.
I think the case helps to sell the pc, regardless of the price point. Anymore, having a glass side panel is what people want.
But, for the price point, paying $100 for a case is dumb. I just recently bought a case for a older setup, just to make it look modern. It's a Montech X1 with a glass side panel and it includes rgb fans. Although static rgb fans.
Overall, for the price, it's a solid case and much cheaper than the one they used. So in my opinion, I'd keep the cpu they had, but change the gpu to an 8 gig model. The Sapphire RX 280 Nitro 8 gig model is around $220 or so on Newegg and the 1660 ti is close to $300.
So in the end, it ends up being a bit more expensive than the current price they are offering, but having 4 more gigs of vram may help? And it still looks nice, even if the case fans are static!
Maybe your next video could be you building a $700 system and comparing the two. But I would check out the case I mentioned.
the build isn't THAT bad but i do agree they should have cut back on the case, rgb fans/controller and put in at least a 1650 super
i understand they want to make the system look pretty but such a strong emphasis on aesthetic in a budget build isn't a good idea, performance suffers too much
I paired a 1600AF (when they were reasonably priced back in April) with a 1660 Super for a friend of mine around this budget, it seems a lot more balanced than this was with its RX 570. I am to the point where I want to upgrade my RX 590 which went from being paired with a Intel 4790K to a Ryzen 3600XT.
I'm still rocking r5 2600x and an rx580.. waiting for the new amd cards to upgrade.
I think the system is pretty reasonable for what they are offering. The company gotta make some money and if a 1660 is put in then the price of the system must go up.
My oldest has a 1600 AF and a Vega 56 with 16 gigs DDR4 3600. All she plays is The Sims.... Warzone occasionally.
I love the 5500xt for a $500 budget. 8gb of vram gives you a lot of head room. Pair it with a 3100 and 16 gb of ram and you're good to go.
This is almost the exact same PC I'm building myself, right down to the case. The odds...
Did you learn nothing?
@@BlackJesus8463 Im using the 8gb card and bought 75% of the parts on sale or used. I think I'm getting my value out of it
Out of curiosity - does the system include an OS at that price? If you take that as well as labour into consideration, the price tag seems a lot more reasonable.
I've worked for UPS and I can say first hand, time is of the essence. They want boxes thrown in quickly and pretty much no care for the items.
For $800 prebuilt I got
GTX 1060 3GB
FX 6300 6 Core
8gb 800MHz DDR3
1TB HHD
So yes give me this computer
Most of these smaller SI's only have access to certain products when buying wholesale. They still have to make their margins. I agree they can improve on the parts used but their target is not necessarily the pc builders but more like someone who doesn't know how to build one and just want an intro gaming pc...Again the more the reason to learn how to build one.
I agree. I'm in a similar position and can only get certain items through my distributor.
I have the 1600, on a b350 motherboard, and my ram only gets up to 2400mhz, very nice chip tho, no complaints
Iam lucky I guess, I have the OG ryzen 1600 and it runs with 3000mhz crucial ballistix kit no problem
@@danoV1c I have the 1700x with a b350 motherboard and run well over 3,000 easy.
Even a Nvidia Geforce GTX 660 would play most modern games very well. The only problem I have with AMD graphics cards was back before AMD took them over, the card I got for my computer fried itself in less than 6 months, but that was when Radion was running the show, I told myself I would not go back. Anyways, but I might have to revisit it because AMD bought them out so I may have to try them again. especially with Nvidia current cards being so pricey for their RTX series, however, I wouldn't recommend a RTX card with a with any build below the equivalent of 3rd and 4th gen processors for Intel and whatever the equivalent for AMD.
Whilst I totally agree you can build a system to be better, without the LED bling it will not sell as a pre-built gaming system in this market. A cheaper case for sure, and budget SSD. The 1600AF is Zen+ so same generation as 2600. The 3100 is a great great choice at this price and would allow a 580 or 1650/60 card to be included.
That fans is just $20 here in our country, that additional price for a low rpm fan is really really suspicious. I agree with this, such a waste of money on this pre-built pc.
microcenter cpu+motherboard combo are so good
I personally think it's better to get a better CPU and budget the GPU in a budget gaming rig, even though it will be worse for gaming, eventually you can upgrade the GPU without worrying about needing a new CPU(and maybe MB). A 1650 super will get you playable FPS at lower settings in pretty much every game.
Maybe do a comparative study of warranty servicing among the the big brand names?
This stuff appears to me to be a dollar sense decision and implementation practice on msi's part, based upon market clout and consumer laws and regs in the market countries.
I am not /that/ disappointed in it, makes a good PC for upgrading later with just the GPU.
not 100% sure about that board - but it looks like the ram is in the "wrong" (not preferred) Slot - normally you want A2 and B2 instead of A1 and B1
That's what I was thinking.
The GTX 1660Ti is also held back by the Ryzen 3 3100, and a lot of AAA games take a hit went just going 4 cores. I'd rather have a faster base system with the Ryzen 5 1600, since changing a graphics cards later on is a 5min swap and any one can do it.
It’s an 8-threaded chip. Slower, less efficient 6 core CPU vs. faster, more efficient 4 core CPU. Games generally prefer the latter. I’ll make a video on this comparison soon :-)
Also, if the argument is simplicity, it takes a similar amount of time to swap the CPU in this build. Remove the stock cooler with a screwdriver, lift the socket lever, and there ya go.
Probably should have mentioned that it is an AF 1600, which is on the 12nm process like the 2600.
He did, at the very end.
That cable management is better than my own pc lol
That 1660 is a beast..Great choice
I think this PC would be fine for a general purpose computer. I would say that it's underpowered for gaming. It's a clean PC and was built thoughtfully, but the components just lack some oomph to push it to the correct level.
Would it be fair to say that this shouldn't be considered a 700$ build but more of a 700$ prebuilt? You do you mention labor cost at the end, but let's not forget that they also need to make a profit. I think it's fair to expect that a 700$ prebuilt would actually be a 500$ build or so. So if they were to make your proposed system, they might have to sell it for 800$ and the same problem would arise. Anyway, I'd say if this your budget, build it yourself!
I don't agree with your case choice. I've had to live with a cheap case before. It's not really worth. Bad to build in, no room for cable management, looks ugly, bad build quality, bad psu placement, no airflow means you have no room for overclocking and not much room for upgrades. Not a great idea all things considered. In my opinion the absolute least you should spend on a case is for something like the Cougar MX330 and a fan or two to go with it, bringing your total up to 40 bucks. And that's still kinda pushing it. In reality, 50 bucks is the minimum price for a case with modern features and a decent enough build.
I used a 20 dollar case for my budget build for a while in 2017 and I just found it kind of intolerable, so I ended up spending more in the end than I would have if I'd just paid for a good case from the get-go.
Though, if you really can't fit a good case in your budget, there is an argument to be made for buying the absolute cheapest 20 dollar ATX case you can afford and then rebuilding your PC when you have 80 or 100 bucks to spare for a case that will actually look good.
Yes, we noticed.
Finally a video about something I shouldn't buy.
I bet you now wish you actually bought this "$700" build :P
😥😭😭😭
I totally agree that the RX 570 is a no go, but the Ryzen 5 1600 AF is NOT first gen Ryzen, it actually is Zen+ and performs more similar to the 2600 than the first gen 1600. Either way, I agree that the Ryzen 3 3100 is way better for a budget gaming PC
Fragile only encourages them to toss it around!
I got an 8GB Strix rx570 new recently for £140 (that includes our 20% VAT sales tax).
Ram is in the wrong slots, i have this exact motherboard for one of my lower end pcs the manual clearly says if you are only using two sticks use A2 and B2 not A1 and B1,
So the Xbox Series X is way more powerful than a $700 or $1000 PC, and can do 4K@60 with raytracing and up to 120 fps Amazing Microsoft.
This computer isn’t worth $700, they put a huge mark up on it for no reason. Honestly you could build this exact computer for less than $500 easily.
@@vipervidsgamingplus5723 yes you would have to build. Parents buying young kids first PC aren't going to dump all the parts on his/her desk.
When I buy fast food, I don't complain they used $2.50 of ingredients and charged me $6-8 for it. They. Are. A. Business!
I remember browsing them one day. Totally unimpressed.
Honestly, this isn't that bad. It's not priced right, but it's definitely one of the best pre-builts I've ever seen. It even trumps lots of alienware and ibuypower PCs that are more expensive in terms of cable management, power supply choice, and even case quality. I would personally think they could remove the RGB fans option and use that money for the GPU.
a 5500xt i think its a better choise for this type of configuration and price range
Greg is my favorite tech reviewer because it seems he gives you the real.
aesthetics sadly sell prebuilt PCs. People that know little or don't want to build a PC are a OEMs main customer, they are also often RGB nuts
This man's hair has takes up as much volume as his actual head.
Fresh haircut Greg is best Greg, the other one was scary
some number of order
As someone who worked in logistics. Dock workers and drivers give 0 fucks about your package lol so ship accordingly 😂
Well at least it has some good looks
I'd almost be willing to put money on the components either coming at steep discount from somewhere, or used.
Builds like this always make me assume they're cutting corners to make thicker profit margins.
Those darkflash dr12pro fans are extremely weak in terms of air pressure and airflow even with the max of 1200rpm. I got rid of them recently coz the cooling are a joke especially with restricted airflow and dust filter.
I'm not sure why you didn't check if it was a 12nm or 14nm 1600... I wondered the entire video if you made sure to check or not. Don't forget to check next time lol
wanna ask for some PC pricing advice. planning to sell an old system for $520usd. its rocking an i5 4690K, Z97 Asrock anniversary motherboard, 2x4GB 2400mhz DDR3 ram, a gtx 970, a 240GB SSD, 1TB HDD and a 600w 80+ bronze PSU. am I asking too much or is it a decent price?
Try it. You can lower the price later.
I would rather just get the starter from NZXT or just build my pc
Did anyone notice that the RAMs were installed in the wrong slot? It's in A1/B1 instead of A2/B2.
Building is probably the only sensible option....
There are viable pre-built solutions out there.
Happy Halloween
Dang Greg. That’s like the 4th heart I got from you. 😆
I do what I can :-)
@@GregSalazar 😃
This statement only applies if all of their systems are given the same level attention to detail and not just this one as they new it was going to be shown to thousands of people.
I can’t say anything to the parts selected, but just based on the way the system is put together aesthetically I would take one of their systems over an Alienware!
Every one that reviews builds talk about sounds when running hotter, don't people crank the in game audio up when playing them?
You have to understand it's a business, for 700 bucks new it's still a decent price for a prebuilt. They probably profit like 150 dollars at the very most which most place charges $150 labor fees anyway
The 8gb 570 would have been a better match if you can't spend too much more even if the card can't fully use that amount it does give it a bit less of a bottleneck
If Optimaltex is checking out the comment section - I understand that looks sell to many, but performance does sell to others. Perhaps, offer the systems as basic plain performance oriented systems and have a 'dress up' option to upgrade them to the RGB glass options in the pictures. It looks like the build quality is there, but I also agree that the part selection is quite dated when it comes to the GPU and that offering this system at a cheaper price point with a basic case and probably a quad core if it saves on the budget would make it more attractive to buyers.
Contrary to popular belief the looks don't actually drive the price up much for system integrators. I can't state the actual price but it's literally cheaper to use rgb fans and stuff than regular fans off the shelf. Logistics, labor, and tax is what drives up the price which is unavoidable for smaller companies. I run Elixir Gaming a small system integration business out of Fresno, CA. My builds are slightly higher than whats listed here but with a rx 580 tier card so i can definitely relate.
@@SaveTheSunF1R3x Yeah - it's still $50 or so cheaper and you can loss leader with 'starts at' pricing with whatever the cheapest case with built in fans happens to be and then have the appearance package that most consumers would actually want rather than a simple box. The idea being that instead of looking at the site and seeing 800 for a ryzen 5 and rx 580, they'd see 700. Though I completely understand that this would mean more physical space to store it. By having photos of the appearance system with the starting at prices of the 'basics' version, it would likely raise ASP.
@@cracklingice As stated it costs us very little to do (you'd be surprised). it's quite literally an auto include for most. Think of the cheapest case imaginable you can purchase off the shelf. It's basically that to us. Logistics of A to B to C (C is system integrators) is what drives up case prices not the actual bill of materials. People like cyberpower etc can do it that way because the whole process is done at A not C. if that makes any sense? Basically they're able to skip a step because it's all done at the manufacturing process. In order for me to do it the way you suggested would require me to inflate the rgb prices. Why? when i can just offer rgb included for cheaper than your standard builder and the end user gains more perceived value.
@@SaveTheSunF1R3x So what you're saying is you can't buy a generic (but sufficient) case for less than the one with tempered glass and RGB fans included because I see the difference on the shelf between whatever is cheapest but sufficient and something that meets the TG and RGB checkbox. Also - I'd add cable extensions (and non stock cooler) to make the appearance package a bit more worth the upgrade.
That being said there could be economies of scale and simply the cost of storing more SKUs of cases that takes away all of that price difference that I can't really see as I don't need to have components for a hundred or more systems on hand nor do I buy direct from distributors.
@@cracklingice you are absolutely correct. non stock coolers are cheap as are cable extensions. the latter not being worth it unless in a higher end build. as the visibility is limited and at least for the psus i use, the cables look good. Here's an example of a slightly more expensive prebuilt using the same specs as mentioned: imgur.com/a/ils8Zad
I got a optimal Tex but mine is a ryzen 5 3600 16gb ram and a gtx 1660 super
I don't think going with a cheaper case will be a viable alternative for this company because they need rgb and a TG case to sell PC's, The sad truth is that people don't care about performance, they care about looks adn RGB puke.
There are plenty of cheaper - and, frankly, _better looking_ - cases on the market. And an RGB strip is much cheaper than RGB fans. Like I said in the video, the budget was allocated poorly for this system.
Recently on Craigslist I saw a used pc with a ryzen 5 2600 and a GTX 1070 for $700. Do you think this is a good deal? It was also posted a few days ago so it's probably more negotiable
just price the items out on pc part picker to find out. pay attention to what type of storage is used, power supply, ram ect.
@@postedinthecut1565 ok thanks. It has radiator water-cooler, 16 gb of 3000mhz ram, 500 gigs of sad storage with a 1 tb hard drive. I think it is a good deal but I just wanted some expert opinions
Prebuilt? What's that?
Something about the sharpness in this video made your facial hair look like it came straight out of a Borderlands game for some reason... weird thing to notice but now I can't un-see it.
You are good.
Heard him say the specs and i went to check the date of the video xD
Happy Halloween Salazar Family!
I built the exact pc for $455.94, all new parts.
I bet they could get 1600 and 570 for very cheap price somewhere.