To be fair, Kel'thuzad became more powerful over time. Every time we have fought him, he has been stronger than the last time. Unfortunately for him, so have we.
@@monkeysk8er33 to be fair we since his second death we beated A big ass armored angry dragon on old god steroids than let to a event as BIG as the sundering (persist even today) A fragmented old god through out all a continent The Fucking burning Legion (with their minions, generals and gods against us ) Full free old god in the seat of power of the Black empire. In comparason a overpower lich its not much
@@m0002856 that and his pre/post fight monologo. Still its impresive than a normal orc shaman stood the anger/torture of 2 otherworldly beings (a warlock alien buffed by the Devil and Death itself) for x amount of years and still sentient.
Kil’jaeden: *imma just rip this mans skin off* Ner’zhul: *is bones* Kil’jaeden: I like him better with skin on actually... *puts Ner’zhuls skin back on* Also kil’jaeden: nah I’ll just take it off and put it back on a bunch of times till I get bored...
yeah honestly like i dont get it. what exactly made sylvanas change her mind? she literally was working towards this goal ever since cata. Did I miss something?
@@metaknight281 it was a means to an end she thought he was going to unmake the cycle of death but he wants to completely remake reality for everything to serve him, which she is not down with
@@LukeOBrien92 still served him though man. There was no hint of any of this "co-conspirators" in game. Jailor ordered and Slyvanas followed suit. At this point you are just arguing how to pronounce potato the correct way lol
@@bastalam go back through the cinematics and tell me how many times Sylvanas says "we" or "our" she thought they were working together. Of course she follows what we think are orders, it's his plan after all
@@LukeOBrien92 so what? You can still work for someone and follow their orders and still use we/our goal "ie, real world job". We don't think its "orders" it is. Seeing as there wasn't any scene or mention of once rejecting his "orders" it's safe to assume she is following his will and "orders". On flip side we seen how jailor treats his allies/underlings. You either submit to him or be mind controlled, there is no 3rd option. Sense Slyvanas isn't being mind controlled she has submitted to him. You can go about partnership all you want but there is no proof of it in game. Slyvanas is another underlying for the jailor and many proof of that is shown in game. For god sake not once did they show how Slyvanas even believed this guy in the first place with being the type of person she is. She just went along with it based on his words? Slyvanas? Yea ok
@@Abby-lx9yi he is right. Wasn't it odd that all allied races leader were all females in bfa? Ever since they started this woke shit in blizz story has suffered greatly by it
The only reason they made Sylvanas the Warchief was because she is female. Lor'Themar, Baine would have made great warchiefs, and would have been in theme with what the Horde is. All the events in BFA and Shadowlands could have been wrote without Sylvanas being the Warchief, the only one that needs her is the burning of Tel'Drasil and that could have been done by a lieutenant or a third faction trying escalate War (remnants of the Black dragonflight for example). But hey, whatever that story was done a long time ago..
@@mokarokas-1727 Actually she had, but she tried to brush it out and ignore it, pay attention to her facial expressions in the cutscenes with Anduin. Not saying that this makes everything good writing, but she did hesitate.
Good cop, bad cop ;). Jaina has motive to plea for Anduin. Thrall is just done with her- he let the Wrathgate slide, he left her to destroy his Horde to grow wheat.
@@elpanderohabanero2915 Thrall is allowed to retire, have wife and kids. After Green Jesus, Blizzard did the sensible thing and moved him out of the lime light. People whined about him killing Garrosh, and now are whining he came back. There is no pleasing the player base.
@@elpanderohabanero2915 If you were Thrall, would you choose golden, fresh, home grown stalks of whole wheat or a bunch of randos who are probably tired of you
So hold up. No show down for kael’thas and kel’thuzad. No I’m depth explaining of kel’thuzad’s motives. No show of loyalty to Arthas, just more of the whole oh yeah jailer bro. It feels like the jailer is just a lesser sargeras.
well they ruined everything. It makes no sense. Take Kel'Thuzad for example. He was a scourge necromancer that served Ner'zhul. Then he went and made Arthas the Lich King and became a lich. Then he served Arthas as his most faithful servant for a loong time. Then in Shadowlands he says he's serving the Jailor, but at the same time Ner'zhul failed the jailor cause Arthas became LK, but if KT made Arthas LK and Jailor didn't want Arthas to be LK then why the F did KT help Arthas become LK. IT MAKES 0 SENSE. They destroyed the lore of so many characters just to drive the game on nostalgia for those characters, when they could easly create new characters or atleast less obvious ones.
I think anduin dropping the compass signifies that he has literally no control over himself any more, in contrast to arthas, who still had some humanity left and still carried jaina’s locket
Does anyone else think it’s really lame that they’re retconning half of the villains in the lore to be working for the jailer? No one is ever allowed to just be doing shit because they want to in WoW.
I bet in 5 expansions (if the game survives) we'll have a new big bad and it's going to be "revealed" that this one pulled all the strings all along. It's really just lazy writing, but maybe that's an MMORPG issue and that's why I quit anyway. Warcraft 3 had a good self-contained story ... after that it got messy.
@Episode Update The Shadowlands themselves are a major retcon of the original lore. And yes, they ARE changing stuff just to fit into their next narrative. To your question: Retconning means retroactively making changes to fit the current narrative. Like, Sylvanas always planned to betray the Horde even "20 years" ago, when they had no idea what they'd do with Sylvanas. So they're giving her a new backstory that sort of fits her actions in the past, but not really. I doubt they even knew why she'd be selected as warchief a few years ago. My problem with "retconning" is that it's alright if it enriches the universe, but it's shit to just "explain" stuff away that wasn't even remotely hinted at. A recent example would be a big reveal in "7 Deadly Sins", anime show, that just feels like "well, yeah, they just thought of that, instead of thinking of it from the start". And that differentiates good from mediocre stories mostly.
Bruh I've been pissed with the retcons since Burning Crusade, but that's because I'm an old fashioned Warcraft 3 guy. But these have to be the worst I've ever seen.
@@Reyil01 Syl serving the dude who's made no attempt of hiding the fact that HE orchestrated her suffering gets triggered and betray him when he says "serve"
I love the look of that fractal portal design that's behind Zovaal during the cutscene, the lighter glowing top fractal layer look like a bunch of fancy clock hands you'd see on an old pocket watch :D
@Episode Update what? People disliking story is another issue? Thats exactly what my comment was about.... i never said that was the ONLY reason, but yeah, its definitely part of the reason for plenty of people. The drought, gameplay not being very engaging, shitty narrative, fun and enjoyment just arent there for a lot of folks, myself included. Those arent all of the reasons that drove their massive engagement numbers down, but theyre some. As far as that whole 'in my head if blizz does something different than i expected its bad' i loved mop. That was essentially blizz tryin to show they could make new lore instead of relying on all the established shit from prior games like the war3 etc. And mop was much better recieved than sl. Bfa and shadowlands just dont feel that well thought out, they keep shitting on well established loved characters and it seems to be for no reason really. So, yeah, its not our fault they make poor choices and odd decisions with their lore, but it is up to us to let them know when something is wrong, otherwise you cant expect them to learn from a mistake if they dont know it was a mistake in the first place. I say this cuz its time people stop trying to defend the undefendedable. It only hurts the game to keep trying to defend the mistakes they keep, seemingly intentionally, repeatedly making. I love this game. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. Ive met a lot of great friends and great people on wow. Ive had more fun than i can even remember playing wow with those friends. I DO NOT want to see wow, or blizzard fail, and turn into a joke, a cautionary tale of what happens when you totally turn your back on your playerbase and forsake all that your game and company ever stood for.. but thats exactly what is happening, even tho theres so many people trying to help give them the information that blizzard needs to succeed. I know its nerdy, lame, and pathetic to hear some loser bitch about the good old days of a damn game, but it means something to some people. Unfortunately those people dont work at blizz or have any effect or control on the game anymore..
Garrosh's end remind me of Illidan when he refused to be lightbound (Rejection of the Gift cutscene, one of the best in WoW), saying a big F you to those who wanted them to submit. And that's why it works with them imo, they stayed true to their characters and their beliefs
yeah, I fucking hated garrosh and weird he never acknowledged his sins and he even said he would do it again. however it is true to his character and died to his own honor
Main difference being Illidan has been a good guy all along and did things to save his people even if he had to be seen as the Bterayer (ala Batman) while Gary is stubborn as a mule and apparently just an evil warmonger as he showed us. Good riddance (but yeah he at the very least kept being consistent which is rare in this new lore).
@@SagittariusSisyphus NO, Garry becoming a warmonger was a result of whiners complaining they didn't like the status-quo of the Horde changing to a guy who'd be more than willing to go to war for the sake of the Horde and not be a constant pacifist, especially because Thrall was collectively punishing his own people for the sins of the past by forcing them to live in a place where they could barely survive. Hence they hit him with a "not-see" stick in Cata-Mop transition.
@@jshadowhunter well even in WotLK he was a rather aggressive fellow, what changed most was his conception of honor. Blizzard was unable to write a warmongering character that still has a honor code.
@@houseviking4352 so the reason this is funny is because Kerrigan and Sylvanas's stories are very similar - a point Blizzard knows because one of Sylvanas's poke lines in Heroes of the Storm goes on about how she thought she was the only person to go through everything she went through "and then [she] met Kerrigan"
I have the feeling we’re going to see arthas real soon next. Kel’thu freaking zad! Lol 23:40 interesting that the last key looks like a symbol of infinity. Or something like the Ouroboros cycle symbol.
Kinda feel like Arthas is gonna be the one that somehow pulls Anduin out of being dominated honestly. They'll want a redemption arc.. What better redemption than saving the new version of himself?
I mean these are new writers they're just bad at hiring the most talented and Blizzard doesn't attract the best anymore considering for example how they tell their employers that being able to work at Blizzard is part of their pay and they get paid less money because of the prestige real artists just don't stand for that kind of Corporate shit as far as I know if you tell a great talented writer that "they're lucky working at Blizzard" there's no way they'd want to work at such a creepy place
New writers are kind of the issue here, they haven't been there from the start and miss a lot of Lore details from Warcraft games/old books/old cutscenes etc.
It’s okay. There we will mete out justice for all! Let’s hope there aren’t any treacherous bronze dragons with time portals despite the fact that all of the dragons lost their magical powers except we also retconned that when we decided that all the dragons still had cool magical powers anyway but sometimes they don’t I dunno we just do whatever we feel like. Ysera: “Our powers are gone” Also Ysera: “I’m still classified as a wild god tho despite supposedly being a normal regular dragon again teehee.”
@@m0002856 I never saw that cutscene as 'our powers are 100% completely gone" but more "our powers are diminished, we are no longer dragon aspects, but we still are ancient motherfucking dragons.
And no one besides Danuser and the other Sylvanas simps will ever think so. Especially because they pump her with too much plot armor and plot holes to fit the narrative. She has become a genuinely annoying character.
One of my biggest gripes with the current lore is them retconning stuff that they don't need to. They don't need kel'thuzad to be aware of everything. They don't need the jailor to be the one behind everything. They don't need so much. What they need is to establish their own new characters that don't ride on the backs of past lore in order to justify their own existence. It makes things messy and cheapens the hole timeline imo
That’s the problem. Blizzard writers are completely incapable of creating new interesting characters which is why they milk the shit out of already established ones.
It's like Disney writers, they cannot leave a stone unturned. Look at Cruella for example, they ended up explaining why she says what she says, how she acts, etc. Basically leaving her without a character but a blank sheet that copied from others.
No, a retcon would be like going back and out right pretending something didn’t happen or happened in a way completely different to how we saw it. This is not a retcon, this is just adding new lore. Everything that happened previously still happened exactly the same as before.
@@thecommentguy9380 yup they are long gone and honestly the writing went downhill already a long time ago. Best examples on top of my head: - Grommash at the end of WoD cheering with the people he previously genocided like they forgave all his crimes. - Garrosh doing a whole 180 on his princibles. - Arthas supposedly murdering Ner`Zhul and his "good" side in his mind to take control over the Helm of Domination while the game itself contradicts this multiple times. - The horde being completly fine with starting yet another War in BfA - Blizz saying we are stuck in the Shadowlands lorewise and dont go out till its over, yet there is a quest with reacting NPCs to create portals towards Maincitys and characters from azeroth frequently visit us. I dont know what goes wrong inside blizzard but it honestly feels like the writers dont even talk to each other, they write their scripts, turn it in and dont care at all what the rest of the team does. It so strange how totally all over the place the lore and writing became all the way since the end of Wrath.
Everytime I see the ending of the raid, I always think that the writers are the most incompetent morons ever. We all know that the Sylvanas hated being a slave when she was enslaved by Arthas. You would think that she would have been able to figure out it was the Jailer that was the one behind it all. Beside that, the writing is horrible. Zovaal won. All he needs to do is just push the right buttons and that is all.
This raid is fun, so far. However, when our guild was in there it ended up turning into a roast session of Bolvar. We couldn't even help it. It was too much to pass up 😅
Alternate reality, we save the soul of Garrosh and turn him against Sylvanus. The actual well written warchief gets a redemption arc despite the warcrimes he committed and Azeroth lives happily ever after without the 17 new Sylvanus books, 3 spinoff games, 9 visual novels, 12 new Funkopops, 7614 Sylvanus t-shirt designs, Sylvanus mount, Sylvanus cape, 4 more Sylvanus expansions plus an additional 3 hearthstone expansions, and finally the statue of liberty sized Sylvanus statue currently under construction at Blizzard HQ.
Some leaders had to stay behind to run things on Azeroth. Turelyon is holding the throne in Anduin's absence. Genn has decide to go of on his own to help Andiun he ever he can on Azeroth. I wonder if Genn is going to track down the new Scarlett Crusader threat that proclaims Anduin as traitor and seek to install a Menethil on the throne.
@@ArlongSun can’t be much going on in Azeroth anymore. BC gone, old gods gone (or so we think) horde and alliance not currently at war, undead basically stuck in northrend. It seems with every wow expansion they use a set of “hero” npcs and then drop them for the next expansion. Saying that Jaina played absolutely no part in BFA apart from two minutes at the start of Naj.
I think it’s the same guy actually. They directed him differently and used a different effect. He had a different voice actor in Wrath than he did in Vanilla (the Vanilla one was the same as WC3 and Hearthstone). They probably changed him specifically in Wrath because he not only has always been the voice actor for Uther (seriously check it if you don’t believe me: it’s the same guy) they ALSO had him voice the Lich King in Wrath and later. I guess they didn’t feel like using the same guy for everything. They had a weird clickey echo effect on his voice in Wrath, however, and it seems they decided to use the same effect again but with the original voice actor. He’s also portrayed much more cowardly than in the past, though that could be because he knows he’s going to die since his phylactery was destroyed.
@@MintyCoffee Sylvie just doesn't want to spend an eternity in hell because of an unjust afterlife system, Baine has never been an interesting character to begin with literally who cares about Baine xD, Zovaal is awesome so far we literally don't know enough about him to judge him yet other than that all the covenant leaders are morons who banished him because they wanted to rule the shadowlands themselves instead of having a just system which is what he presumably wanted initially and not to mention Denathrius is awesome too we get to learn what the dreadlords are and that he has been planning so many things in the background for ages it's literally still wow people are just nostalgia driven and if it isn't muh azeroth or outland they don't consider it good shadowlands have been mentioned in lore for many years and that we finally get to see what it really is is awesome and it'll only get better as they reveal more about the overall plot because shadowlands in the cosmology map is a very small insignificant part of it
It's pretty clear, she wasn't whole, she kept only the empty and vengeful side of her while all compassion, empathy and good will was sealed away in the crystal, now she has changed and is good again.
@@SagittariusSisyphus than why the constant shit face when she looks at anduin? Why care what happens next? Come on dude stop drinking jailor coolaid wake up.... It's just horrible writing.
@@bastalam Ithi k the sarcastic tone is t easy to translate in writing. Anyway my wasn’t a justification, it was just what Blizzard is going to say in order to give her the redemption they want. It’s bad writing but they will do it anyway.
i had a similar reaction to Sylvanas some time ago. Same actors tho, I like when the ''enhance'' the voice's eg Bolvar for sh trailer, but it feel stupid to downgrade it after w.e.
14:15 "What an opportunity there was to use Shadowlands to retcon part of and add more to Ner'zhul's story that didn't need to be clarified or there in the first place just to fit the new narrative of THE JAILER."
"Every soul can be redeemed if it wants to be" quoted by the accuser in a random voice line when interacting, hence why garrosh was sent to the maw he is too prideful, having no regrets when he should
@@DsiakMondala I can never tell if the 'Garrosh did nothing wrong' crowd are all massive trolls just trying to get a rise out of people, or if they genuinely think that one of the most vile shitheads in a game full of vile shitheads was really a good guy.
I don't really mind blizzards story if they just told it properly, their story telling is absolutely abysmal. They give you a tiny bit every half of a year. Like doing the whole games story is probably only like 30hours of playtime at most. They rely on cliffhangers so much that it sets people up for disappointment because they shouldn't be cliffhangers. They are not that interesting of plot points. Like the motivation of the jailer not being revealed just makes him less of a character to be able to sympathize with, or not telling us what happened to the arbeitr just makes that plot point that she broke completely pointless
yeah - let us take all the characters we know and love , who already had fleshed out motivations and good or goodish stories and just slap a "HEY THEY WERE THE JAILER"S ALL ALONG" and honestly that thing can never command what the Lich King did. It is just a tool to play on your knowledge and tug on nostalgia - "see you remember this one right - well actually...."
I still don't get how Garrosh got off calling Thrall a coward. Is it purely because he used the elements in their fight? Or is it because he didn't take command in Northrend or left the Horde to do the Earthen Ring thing against Deathwing? There's no sense to calling Thrall a coward. The biggest let down of Shadowlands is definitely the fact that we didn't get the huge amounts of random dead characters that we were expecting to see.. Everyone expects to see Arthas in the Maw, he's nowhere to be found. Everyone hoped to see Broxigar somewhere.. he's nowhere. Everyone hoped to see the Gul'dans together, no go. Some wanted to see Varian, he's not there.. Every Horde hoped to see Cairn and Varok again.. they're nowhere to be found.. And Vol'jin... well I think his story is going to be brought back right before the next expansion and he's going to be the main focus of expansion #7/ 8.0-8.2 or whatever it becomes.
Thrall is a coward though; he tried hiding in outlands instead of coming to the aid of the horde when they needed him. He ignored Jaina's desperate cries for help for weeks but came at Vol'jin's call. He turned down the mantle of warchief and gave it to a troll just so he didn't have to. He hasn't been good at being an orc since he got married and has been trying to live the human fantasy of a white picket fence life. He also abandoned Garrosh to a pack of old-timers who didn't approve of him and ultimately, sabotaged his efforts at being a good warchief. Then to top it all off, not only did thrall resort to using the elements in their mak'gora, but he then denounced taking any responsibility for the misery that followed his departure from the horde. Garrosh wasn't wrong; none of it would've happened had Thrall not left the horde entirely. It was supposed to be just until Deathwing was taken care of, but Thrall ran and never came back.
@@NoirRaven most of that Garrosh wouldn't know about so it's a non-issue. What happened after Garrosh was killed, doesn't matter, what happened with Jaina doesn't matter, letting Vol'jin take over.. possibly because he would've seen it but really was it a cowardly act? To me no but to Garrosh.. I think Garrosh has a really warped view, especially for someone that was sitting around bitching and moaning and unwilling to act in Outlands during TBC. The only reason he was pulled out of his funk was because of Thrall and Varok. I truly think that it's purely because he stepped aside and made Garrosh Warchief (should've been Saurfang honestly) and used the elements in their fight. Beyond that there's really no reason. Thrall hoped that Garrosh's time with Varok in Northrend would've taught him to be decent but instead he just ended up being a crybaby that would use any power to try to make sure no more orcs died, no matter how corrupting it was... In so many ways Garrosh was far worse than Gul'dan ever was.
@@jaratt85 Garrosh blamed Thrall for everything that happened to him, and called him a coward for giving him the mantle and just running off, leaving the Horde to be a dad.
@@jaratt85 also... Why would you expect and then get disappointed by things they never even mentioned would be included? That's more of a you problem if your falsely inflated expectations aren't met by reality.
@@ciram9082 they literally said during the Blizzcon panels that we'd get to see a lot of characters that we knew that'd either be enemies or show up as random rares out in the environment or be part of the story.. So far I haven't heard of a single rare popping up that's a familiar face.. I think it's another case of Blizz promising things and then never implementing them.
So I'm confused about the lich king stuff. Kil'jaeden made Ner'zhul the lich king and gave him the helm and sword but the jailer made the helm and the sword? Were the burning legion and the jailer working together?
@@Sorrow993 I thought the lore in Bfa was alright but they've I feel like they've retconned so many things for shadowlands that nothing makes sense anymore
@@birb7866 tbh whole BFA is a mess from the start because any1 with more than 2 brain cell would realize Slyvanas's plan to do a faction war right after both faction lost insane amount of people and resource to Legion is absolutely shitty idea. So entire Horde agreeing to mobilize on a war is already bullshit. The actual zone story of Zandalar and Kul Treas were okay and I would consider them as only redeeming part of BFA story. Then they butcher Naga and N'zoth,two of biggest and most anticipated threat left in Azeroth, into single patch chores. Meanwhile Slyvanas is being impatient bitch and ultimately fail her goal by placing herself on a position where she can't no longer be leader of the horde and keep the war going. I personally think BFA lore is worse than WoD lore which is saying a lot considering like half of WoD lore was cut out on final game.
@Triple A That still makes no sense. For several reasons, of which I'll condense into the two most important ones in my opinion. 1) If the Dreadlords were servants of the Jailer when they told Nerzhul of the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne, then where did they get that info? The Jailer? I ask this because the Jailer had to torture the Runecarver to get that information *during this expansion.* That entire torture cutscene is null and void then. 2) Dreadlords are cunning and devious. Everything they do is deception. I'm guessing they don't really trust anyone. Would they really have worked with the Jailer to give him ultimate power over everything and not expect a doublecross? Theu should realize that him having all that power merely puts their existence at risk. --- 3) [for shits'n'gigs] Dreadlords are Nathrezim who exist in the Twisting Nether. It has been explained that the beings who exist in the Nether cannot physically die. Their body goes back to the Nether is all. Is why they have an endless army. So how is Sire Denathrius in the land of the dead? He can't kill himself to get there. Did he open a portal that Sargeras was never aware of? That none of the Titans were ever aware of? That no other being except the Nathrezim knew about? That seems a little far-fetched, because even in the Shadowlands they should have been asking who the hell Denathrius was and what was he doing there when he first got there.
Nobbel's sarcasm during all this as he pokes holes in how many retcons the developers have done just to try to tell this 'story' is amazing XD Pretty much "oooh given all this lore.. what a perfect opportunity to delve into this...BUUUUT they didn't! so here we are."
I feel bad for nerzul he been through so much and he was tricked to become a weapon for two evil masters and now even hell he is only thinks of his wife
Nobbel, will we see Varian again in the Shadowlands as a means of breaking Anduin from The Jailer? Also... where is Baine during this raid? He was one of the few to join us into The Maw originally, and has not done anything since his rescue.
@@Seler213 Judging by the color my personal theory is this was the soul of Argus, the Unmaker. But even if it proves to be true, it doesn`t really matter anymore. WC3 custom campaigns have more coherent storylines than WoW at this point. Even the joke/parody ones.
3 года назад
@@aureliodeprimus8018 I've downloaded a Final Fantasy RPG custom map for WC3 which had a new story made by 2 people... better than this by miles.
Imagine being so convinced that the guy named THE JAILOR gives a shit about freedom that you stake the entire universe on it. This whole Sylvanas arc has just been so... poorly executed. Maybe I am crazy for thinking that, it's easy to say something like that when you don't see the whole picture, but the instant Sylvanas gets what her character has been building to for at least 3 expansions (since Vol'jin made her Warchief) she changes her mind? She literally committed genocide, she subjected countless souls to torture so severe they were obliterated. Everything was staked on one thing: the Jailor's stand-up-guy-ness? This is like when Tom Haverford said "Well hindsight is 20/20" and Leslie Knope responded "I feel like normal sight should have caught that."
So, Blizzard's excuse for Sylvanas Windrunner to not get that the Guy who is the source of the Lk's Power, planted the Lk upon Azeroth.. Is the LK just bigger and more powerful? is that she's unbelievable ..dumb?
She knew all that, but her end goal was for her not to end up in hell, so she helped the jailer break the system. She knew he was bad, but their alliance was an end to her means.
can blizzard just like, stop wasting or ruining old characters? Like, Sylvanas is the obvious one but fucking with Kel'Thuzads Lore so he was "really always working for the jailer" is kind of a retroactive "fuck you" to old time fans like me, Or the arguably less offensive use of Garrosh. Its fitting for him but I think a lot of folks would agree it would have been more interesting to see more of him this expansion.
Garrosh still a better bad guy then sylvanas in one line he proves blizz wrong he would do it again not hide behind oh I was tricked into it because reasons
While the Garrosh cut scene was pretty good, I think a lot of people are forgetting what made people not like Garrosh at the end of WoD, he wanted to put the blame on Thrall, for his own actions.
Despite our best efforts *hides wild hunt's sigil in the first place anyone would look and literally brings Necrolord sigil to Torghast* Yep... our best efforts
Honestly, Nerzhul is probably my favorite boss here. If ever there was one that deserved to be within this place, it would be him. The very first Lich king and the one that turned Arthas into what he is.
Anyone else who watches Critical Role can feel how much Laura Bailey is just collecting a paycheck with these line reads lol. Not that the material is great but sometimes you can tell an actor is doing their best with bad material(like the Sylvanas VA, the story is bad but she’s trying), Laura stopped giving a fuck a while ago and she is fully justified in doing so.
she actually loves her job as jaina you could tell with BFAs warbringers. but of course im sure you can speak for her since you know her so much better than herself
Funny I think the same thing about Taliesin with Mograine. I feel like you can hear him struggling with how cringy some of his lines were. Like the Maw intro when he says "before the trail goes... cold", he sounds like he's dying inside lol
@@Styder111 Taliesin is doing a great job as Darion. For me when he said the pun with the trail, it was like he realized he is going to say pun he didn't mean to say and he realizes he has to say it anyway, so he finishes the sentence with disappointment in his voice. But all characters are getting a bad treatment. Most of the writing feels bland and shallow.
Could you explain what was the last straw considering you didn’t give us any information don’t get me wrong this expansion has a lot of problems I’m literally wondering what was the last straw for you
@@timar6868 The sylvanus switching sides thing, knowing blizzard they are going to try and redeem her or some BS. I mean for what 2.5 expansions now she has done horrible things, truly war crimes, but THIS was when she balks? At this point she has burned every damn bridge she has at this point but yet now she decides to go back.
@@tanks608 did you actually expected that sylvanas the literal wow merch queen would die in this raid? Because I am still surprised so many people thought she will be killed.
@@GRIMHOOD99 I really hoped she would since WoW plot armor these days is ridiculous. Would be a nice reset for blizzard to show there are actual consequences for things.
Why do we need sylvanas alive when we already have the primus who lead them to victory last time and was critical in his plans. Also i don't think anybody card about this whole cycle until blizzard all of the sudden made an expansion out of it.
I've been saying the same thing but it fall on deaf ears. And isn't it weird that no other cosmic entity is involved at all with first ones and just death is? Cause if they were where the hell are they now that shit is going down.
Y'all get disappointed every time there is something new added to the story or elaborated on, and then act as if you could write a better story/be a writer for blizzard when the best story you ever wrote was in fifth grade and that was even subpar.
Blizzard really need to stop with the whole "the system is flawed" schtik... It's the same as sargeras, Amon from SC, Diablo and Malthael... Its all the same
Yeah, but for Sargeras, the writing was good. He saw that if life existed, corruption could be a danger, so he decided to destroy everything to remake a universe purged of all corruption. Stupid in a way, but at least it makes sens. Sylvanas plan is just a joke.
Skipped to the very end (and skipped back to see Garrosh). So I guess it's the "Shadowlands is free!" thing? and Sylvanas has been the hero of justice all along? How rude of us to have mistaken her!
Sylvanas.exe stopped working around the end of WotLK. What, was she snorting powdered saronite all day every day since then or something? Never mind, shitty writing is shitty.
I was honestly hedging my prediction on several WoW villains who died in the past -- namely Kael'thas and Garrosh, and perhaps even Sylvanas in a twist of irony -- being restored to life to have their majorly fucked up character assassination storylines continue and be appropriately redeemed by simpler and far better writing in the next expansion. First time in a while I got a prediction wrong, but oh well.
The fact that nearly all of the bosses in this raid has major lore significance tied to either them or their fights means I will probably remember this raids story as clearly as Siege of Orgrimmar's. Can't wait to play it through properly!
Sylvanas may yet prove useful to us. If her now restored soul has any shred of remorse for all the souls she has damned, she will help us fix this mess.
3:13 "From the Shadowsteel Foundry we move on to the Eye's Overlook, where a familiar gaze falls upon us" You have died, Release to the nearest graveyard [Release Spirit] [Recap] Burn? :D :D
Well, the "twist" that we all knew was coming happened, and I can safely say I really don't care where the story is going anymore. Sylvanas redemption arc is something I don't care about, and across almost a year they have done nothing to make me care about the Jailer as a villain. Seriously, we went to the freaking afterlife, with so many potentially interesting characters, and the WoW team has managed to do absolutely nothing with that concept. Shadowlands is just, such a massive letdown.
Considering the jailers armour has a huge hole ripped in it where the 5th key seemed to float into i'd say it was the jailers key originally and it was taken from him by force.
You know Blizzard is well and truely dead when there's massive barn sized plot holes due to all the lore retcons. The red shirt guy was impressive at one point.
![Chapter 4: The Last Sigil - 9.1 Chains of Domination [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ffLjxres4UE/mqdefault.jpg)
![Chapter 4: The Last Sigil - 9.1 Chains of Domination [Lore]](/img/tr.png)
![The Story of The Siege of Nighthold [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FqJAjngzJsc/mqdefault.jpg)
Every time I see Kel'thuzad I can't help but think "How many times do we need to teach you this lesson old man?!"
His voice sounds younger every time he dies. Perhaps we'll end up fighting him as a baby?
@@SquareViking i mean he its a lich he can just change his body and i wouldnt matter
To be fair, Kel'thuzad became more powerful over time. Every time we have fought him, he has been stronger than the last time. Unfortunately for him, so have we.
@@monkeysk8er33 to be fair we since his second death we beated
A big ass armored angry dragon on old god steroids than let to a event as BIG as the sundering (persist even today)
A fragmented old god through out all a continent
The Fucking burning Legion (with their minions, generals and gods against us )
Full free old god in the seat of power of the Black empire.
In comparason a overpower lich its not much
He is mage..so it's never gonna be enough LOL
Considering all Ner'zhul went through, it's a miracle he can still form coherent sentences
Hardly.
I think he mostly just screams that no one escapes the jailer.
@@m0002856 that and his pre/post fight monologo. Still its impresive than a normal orc shaman stood the anger/torture of 2 otherworldly beings (a warlock alien buffed by the Devil and Death itself) for x amount of years and still sentient.
Kil’jaeden: *imma just rip this mans skin off*
Ner’zhul: *is bones*
Kil’jaeden: I like him better with skin on actually... *puts Ner’zhuls skin back on*
Also kil’jaeden: nah I’ll just take it off and put it back on a bunch of times till I get bored...
@@sergiovergaramontemiranda2116 literally what I thought when he started speaking 😂
Nobbel casually pointing out all the wasted potential in the Sanctum lore
wasted potential basically wow nowadays
Sylv: "I will never serve."
Jailor: "B1tch, you've been serving me for like 3 expansions... the joke's on you."
yeah honestly like i dont get it. what exactly made sylvanas change her mind? she literally was working towards this goal ever since cata. Did I miss something?
@@metaknight281 it was a means to an end she thought he was going to unmake the cycle of death but he wants to completely remake reality for everything to serve him, which she is not down with
@@LukeOBrien92 still served him though man. There was no hint of any of this "co-conspirators" in game. Jailor ordered and Slyvanas followed suit. At this point you are just arguing how to pronounce potato the correct way lol
@@bastalam go back through the cinematics and tell me how many times Sylvanas says "we" or "our" she thought they were working together. Of course she follows what we think are orders, it's his plan after all
@@LukeOBrien92 so what? You can still work for someone and follow their orders and still use we/our goal "ie, real world job". We don't think its "orders" it is. Seeing as there wasn't any scene or mention of once rejecting his "orders" it's safe to assume she is following his will and "orders". On flip side we seen how jailor treats his allies/underlings. You either submit to him or be mind controlled, there is no 3rd option. Sense Slyvanas isn't being mind controlled she has submitted to him. You can go about partnership all you want but there is no proof of it in game. Slyvanas is another underlying for the jailor and many proof of that is shown in game.
For god sake not once did they show how Slyvanas even believed this guy in the first place with being the type of person she is. She just went along with it based on his words? Slyvanas? Yea ok
Sylvanas: gets a dumb excuse for committing mass genocide and looks like she gets a redemption arc
Garrosh: fuck you, I was right and you were wrong
No shit that's the entire storyline xD
@@Saintedlight They couldn't afford a proper death animation for her . Bobby need money.
@@Saintedlight what
@@Abby-lx9yi he is right. Wasn't it odd that all allied races leader were all females in bfa? Ever since they started this woke shit in blizz story has suffered greatly by it
The only reason they made Sylvanas the Warchief was because she is female. Lor'Themar, Baine would have made great warchiefs, and would have been in theme with what the Horde is.
All the events in BFA and Shadowlands could have been wrote without Sylvanas being the Warchief, the only one that needs her is the burning of Tel'Drasil and that could have been done by a lieutenant or a third faction trying escalate War (remnants of the Black dragonflight for example).
But hey, whatever that story was done a long time ago..
Bfa Magni: Champion!
SL Bolvar: WE WILL STOP YOU
Sylvanas: *Yo, Jailer. How many souls shall we deny their fair judgement today and torture into submission?*
Jailer: *...serve...*
Sylvanas: *>:[*
I guess even banshees get PTSD, serve was a trigger word
@@devonchafe2764 - She didn't have a problem with it when forcing Anduin to "be made to serve"...
@@mokarokas-1727 yeah but that wasn't directed at her, so, ya know. Pick and choose
@@mokarokas-1727 with all those side eyes she's giving him I am beginning to wonder if they made some plans together
@@mokarokas-1727 Actually she had, but she tried to brush it out and ignore it, pay attention to her facial expressions in the cutscenes with Anduin. Not saying that this makes everything good writing, but she did hesitate.
Thrall and Jaina are on 2 very different levels when they’re fighting Sylvannas.
Jaina- “Surrender please”
Thrall- “Diiieeeeeeee”
Good cop, bad cop ;). Jaina has motive to plea for Anduin. Thrall is just done with her- he let the Wrathgate slide, he left her to destroy his Horde to grow wheat.
@@elpanderohabanero2915 Thrall is allowed to retire, have wife and kids. After Green Jesus, Blizzard did the sensible thing and moved him out of the lime light. People whined about him killing Garrosh, and now are whining he came back. There is no pleasing the player base.
@@elpanderohabanero2915 If you were Thrall, would you choose golden, fresh, home grown stalks of whole wheat or a bunch of randos who are probably tired of you
So hold up. No show down for kael’thas and kel’thuzad. No I’m depth explaining of kel’thuzad’s motives. No show of loyalty to Arthas, just more of the whole oh yeah jailer bro. It feels like the jailer is just a lesser sargeras.
When was the last time when the characters sat down and explained something in depth, instead of the cutscenes just juggling keys in front of you?
well they ruined everything.
It makes no sense.
Take Kel'Thuzad for example.
He was a scourge necromancer that served Ner'zhul. Then he went and made Arthas the Lich King and became a lich.
Then he served Arthas as his most faithful servant for a loong time.
Then in Shadowlands he says he's serving the Jailor, but at the same time Ner'zhul failed the jailor cause Arthas became LK, but if KT made Arthas LK and Jailor didn't want Arthas to be LK then why the F did KT help Arthas become LK. IT MAKES 0 SENSE.
They destroyed the lore of so many characters just to drive the game on nostalgia for those characters, when they could easly create new characters or atleast less obvious ones.
Kel'thusad: Naxx was merely a setback
spelling his name like that made me think he was sad =(
Dragonblight was merely a setback
Andorhal was also merely a setback
Lol “Naxx just setback”
I think anduin dropping the compass signifies that he has literally no control over himself any more, in contrast to arthas, who still had some humanity left and still carried jaina’s locket
Another take on that part is that Arthas willingly threw his humanity away while Anduin was forced into it.
Does anyone else think it’s really lame that they’re retconning half of the villains in the lore to be working for the jailer? No one is ever allowed to just be doing shit because they want to in WoW.
I bet in 5 expansions (if the game survives) we'll have a new big bad and it's going to be "revealed" that this one pulled all the strings all along.
It's really just lazy writing, but maybe that's an MMORPG issue and that's why I quit anyway. Warcraft 3 had a good self-contained story ... after that it got messy.
@Episode Update The Shadowlands themselves are a major retcon of the original lore. And yes, they ARE changing stuff just to fit into their next narrative.
To your question: Retconning means retroactively making changes to fit the current narrative. Like, Sylvanas always planned to betray the Horde even "20 years" ago, when they had no idea what they'd do with Sylvanas. So they're giving her a new backstory that sort of fits her actions in the past, but not really.
I doubt they even knew why she'd be selected as warchief a few years ago. My problem with "retconning" is that it's alright if it enriches the universe, but it's shit to just "explain" stuff away that wasn't even remotely hinted at.
A recent example would be a big reveal in "7 Deadly Sins", anime show, that just feels like "well, yeah, they just thought of that, instead of thinking of it from the start". And that differentiates good from mediocre stories mostly.
Bruh I've been pissed with the retcons since Burning Crusade, but that's because I'm an old fashioned Warcraft 3 guy. But these have to be the worst I've ever seen.
@@Diree Finally someone else who realizes this.
Garrosh did XD
Sylvanas: you will all die
10 min later
Sylvanas: spare them, it's a cut scene after all dude...
Ladies and gentlemen - blizzard's writing team Clap
Writing TEAM? Writing intern, more like.
Sylvanas after 4 years of serving the Jailor: "I WiLl NeVeR SeRvE"
@@Reyil01 Syl serving the dude who's made no attempt of hiding the fact that HE orchestrated her suffering gets triggered and betray him when he says "serve"
@@SwissSareth even more likely an AI... by the looks of it they used chatbot to write this crap.
It was an honor raiding with you! I love your videos!
actually died less than some of our raiders it seemed xD
@@TheBjartulf And was doing mechanics when people wanted to log
classic!
I love the look of that fractal portal design that's behind Zovaal during the cutscene, the lighter glowing top fractal layer look like a bunch of fancy clock hands you'd see on an old pocket watch :D
I wish blizz loved and handled their own lore as well as you do...
@Episode Update Strongly disagree.
All im sayin is if blizz cared as much as nobbel, they wouldnt be dealing with all the disappointed fans and poor numbers.
@Episode Update what? People disliking story is another issue? Thats exactly what my comment was about.... i never said that was the ONLY reason, but yeah, its definitely part of the reason for plenty of people. The drought, gameplay not being very engaging, shitty narrative, fun and enjoyment just arent there for a lot of folks, myself included. Those arent all of the reasons that drove their massive engagement numbers down, but theyre some.
As far as that whole 'in my head if blizz does something different than i expected its bad' i loved mop. That was essentially blizz tryin to show they could make new lore instead of relying on all the established shit from prior games like the war3 etc. And mop was much better recieved than sl. Bfa and shadowlands just dont feel that well thought out, they keep shitting on well established loved characters and it seems to be for no reason really. So, yeah, its not our fault they make poor choices and odd decisions with their lore, but it is up to us to let them know when something is wrong, otherwise you cant expect them to learn from a mistake if they dont know it was a mistake in the first place. I say this cuz its time people stop trying to defend the undefendedable. It only hurts the game to keep trying to defend the mistakes they keep, seemingly intentionally, repeatedly making.
I love this game. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. Ive met a lot of great friends and great people on wow. Ive had more fun than i can even remember playing wow with those friends. I DO NOT want to see wow, or blizzard fail, and turn into a joke, a cautionary tale of what happens when you totally turn your back on your playerbase and forsake all that your game and company ever stood for.. but thats exactly what is happening, even tho theres so many people trying to help give them the information that blizzard needs to succeed. I know its nerdy, lame, and pathetic to hear some loser bitch about the good old days of a damn game, but it means something to some people. Unfortunately those people dont work at blizz or have any effect or control on the game anymore..
Garrosh's end remind me of Illidan when he refused to be lightbound (Rejection of the Gift cutscene, one of the best in WoW), saying a big F you to those who wanted them to submit.
And that's why it works with them imo, they stayed true to their characters and their beliefs
Garrosh's end makes me sad, because now I'll never see his character again.
yeah, I fucking hated garrosh and weird he never acknowledged his sins and he even said he would do it again. however it is true to his character and died to his own honor
Main difference being Illidan has been a good guy all along and did things to save his people even if he had to be seen as the Bterayer (ala Batman) while Gary is stubborn as a mule and apparently just an evil warmonger as he showed us. Good riddance (but yeah he at the very least kept being consistent which is rare in this new lore).
@@SagittariusSisyphus NO, Garry becoming a warmonger was a result of whiners complaining they didn't like the status-quo of the Horde changing to a guy who'd be more than willing to go to war for the sake of the Horde and not be a constant pacifist, especially because Thrall was collectively punishing his own people for the sins of the past by forcing them to live in a place where they could barely survive. Hence they hit him with a "not-see" stick in Cata-Mop transition.
@@jshadowhunter well even in WotLK he was a rather aggressive fellow, what changed most was his conception of honor. Blizzard was unable to write a warmongering character that still has a honor code.
Let me guess, Sylvanas gonna turn into super sayan and destroy the jailer at the end of expansion and visit Anduin in a bar.
ROFL
@@alexashton6501 I bet she will die liberating Anduin. This will fuel the eventual Scarlet Crusade plotline
No she's gonna get trial in Pandaria for her crimes against it's people.
@@houseviking4352 so the reason this is funny is because Kerrigan and Sylvanas's stories are very similar - a point Blizzard knows because one of Sylvanas's poke lines in Heroes of the Storm goes on about how she thought she was the only person to go through everything she went through "and then [she] met Kerrigan"
LOL!! this is glorious!!
I have the feeling we’re going to see arthas real soon next.
Kel’thu freaking zad! Lol
23:40 interesting that the last key looks like a symbol of infinity. Or something like the Ouroboros cycle symbol.
That symbol is all over oribos so it’s not necessarily important
As in INFINITY stone.
I hoped to see Arthas this expansion. Now I PRAY he will not be ruined like the rest.
Kinda feel like Arthas is gonna be the one that somehow pulls Anduin out of being dominated honestly. They'll want a redemption arc.. What better redemption than saving the new version of himself?
Blizzard really needs new writers
True
I mean these are new writers
they're just bad at hiring the most talented
and Blizzard doesn't attract the best anymore
considering for example how they tell their employers that being able to work at Blizzard is part of their pay and they get paid less money because of the prestige
real artists just don't stand for that kind of Corporate shit as far as I know
if you tell a great talented writer that "they're lucky working at Blizzard" there's no way they'd want to work at such a creepy place
New writers are kind of the issue here, they haven't been there from the start and miss a lot of Lore details from Warcraft games/old books/old cutscenes etc.
I thought it was a good story. Apparently there are hundreds of thousands happy enough to keep playing the game.
@@chrisaustin9949 there are also literally millions that left because of it lmao
Imagine defeating Sylvanas and now she has to stand trial in Pandaria for her crimes.
It’s okay. There we will mete out justice for all! Let’s hope there aren’t any treacherous bronze dragons with time portals despite the fact that all of the dragons lost their magical powers except we also retconned that when we decided that all the dragons still had cool magical powers anyway but sometimes they don’t I dunno we just do whatever we feel like.
Ysera: “Our powers are gone”
Also Ysera: “I’m still classified as a wild god tho despite supposedly being a normal regular dragon again teehee.”
Lol imagne her getting back to her normal life form
@@m0002856 I never saw that cutscene as 'our powers are 100% completely gone" but more "our powers are diminished, we are no longer dragon aspects, but we still are ancient motherfucking dragons.
Sylvanas is 100% gonna sacrifice herself to save Anduin and go out a hero and she doesn't deserve it.
And no one besides Danuser and the other Sylvanas simps will ever think so. Especially because they pump her with too much plot armor and plot holes to fit the narrative. She has become a genuinely annoying character.
I think she takes the Jailer's old job instead.
no, blizz wouldnt toss out slyv; shes going to be redeemed and come back 3 expans later as a hero again or some corny crap
If you heard the leaks, they were planning on making Sylvanna the new Arbiter...
@@Rpground Imagine Sylvanas gets to judge other souls. 🤣
I really love the jailers transmog
One of my biggest gripes with the current lore is them retconning stuff that they don't need to. They don't need kel'thuzad to be aware of everything. They don't need the jailor to be the one behind everything. They don't need so much. What they need is to establish their own new characters that don't ride on the backs of past lore in order to justify their own existence. It makes things messy and cheapens the hole timeline imo
That’s the problem. Blizzard writers are completely incapable of creating new interesting characters which is why they milk the shit out of already established ones.
It's like Disney writers, they cannot leave a stone unturned. Look at Cruella for example, they ended up explaining why she says what she says, how she acts, etc. Basically leaving her without a character but a blank sheet that copied from others.
Soooo true
@@Xalocin Exactly. Kinda sad that they have to retcon stuff to create new characters and stories that are not boring
No, a retcon would be like going back and out right pretending something didn’t happen or happened in a way completely different to how we saw it. This is not a retcon, this is just adding new lore. Everything that happened previously still happened exactly the same as before.
This writing is so over the place... i mean it feels like the writers themselfs dont know what to do with sylvanas
@@thecommentguy9380 yup they are long gone and honestly the writing went downhill already a long time ago. Best examples on top of my head:
- Grommash at the end of WoD cheering with the people he previously genocided like they forgave all his crimes.
- Garrosh doing a whole 180 on his princibles.
- Arthas supposedly murdering Ner`Zhul and his "good" side in his mind to take control over the Helm of Domination while the game itself contradicts this multiple times.
- The horde being completly fine with starting yet another War in BfA
- Blizz saying we are stuck in the Shadowlands lorewise and dont go out till its over, yet there is a quest with reacting NPCs to create portals towards Maincitys and characters from azeroth frequently visit us.
I dont know what goes wrong inside blizzard but it honestly feels like the writers dont even talk to each other, they write their scripts, turn it in and dont care at all what the rest of the team does. It so strange how totally all over the place the lore and writing became all the way since the end of Wrath.
Garrosh’es voice actor killed it
Can we delete Sylvanas and have Denathrius as our villain again
I think it's safe to say that this expansion unfortunately is a complete miss
Everytime I see the ending of the raid, I always think that the writers are the most incompetent morons ever. We all know that the Sylvanas hated being a slave when she was enslaved by Arthas. You would think that she would have been able to figure out it was the Jailer that was the one behind it all.
Beside that, the writing is horrible. Zovaal won. All he needs to do is just push the right buttons and that is all.
early bird get the lore
I hope they don't bring back Varian, because Varian's soul was destroyed by fel magic, Anduin's mother however....
Confirmed his actual soul was destroyed there?
Remember that Anduin saw his father when he recovered Shalamayne. So he might come back.
@@aomcastor2 The soul is destroyed, you know those soul shards locks have?
@@Spyrit2011 Oh shit, you are right.
@@Spyrit2011 HIS MOTHER DOEEEEEEE
Nobbel holy sh*t dude…. “5 keys to lead the way, 5 torches to light our path”
This raid is fun, so far.
However, when our guild was in there it ended up turning into a roast session of Bolvar. We couldn't even help it. It was too much to pass up 😅
Dude has taken more Ls than anyone in Warcraft history.
He's already been roasted by the flame of life. Leave the poor guy be.
Alternate reality, we save the soul of Garrosh and turn him against Sylvanus. The actual well written warchief gets a redemption arc despite the warcrimes he committed and Azeroth lives happily ever after without the 17 new Sylvanus books, 3 spinoff games, 9 visual novels, 12 new Funkopops, 7614 Sylvanus t-shirt designs, Sylvanus mount, Sylvanus cape, 4 more Sylvanus expansions plus an additional 3 hearthstone expansions, and finally the statue of liberty sized Sylvanus statue currently under construction at Blizzard HQ.
What happend to Genn Graymane, I thought that he also wants revenge on Sylvanas for killing his son 🤔
He didn't come to the shadowlands
Blizzard story team kinda forgot about him...and most of the storylines. :D
Some leaders had to stay behind to run things on Azeroth. Turelyon is holding the throne in Anduin's absence. Genn has decide to go of on his own to help Andiun he ever he can on Azeroth. I wonder if Genn is going to track down the new Scarlett Crusader threat that proclaims Anduin as traitor and seek to install a Menethil on the throne.
He stayed behind but you can bet some heard him yell Slyvanas' name when she yeeted away every time.
@@ArlongSun can’t be much going on in Azeroth anymore. BC gone, old gods gone (or so we think) horde and alliance not currently at war, undead basically stuck in northrend. It seems with every wow expansion they use a set of “hero” npcs and then drop them for the next expansion. Saying that Jaina played absolutely no part in BFA apart from two minutes at the start of Naj.
Cooking chicken tacos and listening to lore
It sucks they didn't keep the voice of Kel'Thuzad from Hearthstone. I think it sounds too whiny in this version.
Yeah it's not the original voice
I think it's the original voice actor, they just simply wrote KT as a parody of himself and that's why he comes across as a different person.
I think it’s the same guy actually.
They directed him differently and used a different effect.
He had a different voice actor in Wrath than he did in Vanilla (the Vanilla one was the same as WC3 and Hearthstone). They probably changed him specifically in Wrath because he not only has always been the voice actor for Uther (seriously check it if you don’t believe me: it’s the same guy) they ALSO had him voice the Lich King in Wrath and later. I guess they didn’t feel like using the same guy for everything.
They had a weird clickey echo effect on his voice in Wrath, however, and it seems they decided to use the same effect again but with the original voice actor.
He’s also portrayed much more cowardly than in the past, though that could be because he knows he’s going to die since his phylactery was destroyed.
He sounds kinda cartonish now
@@m0002856 the dude who voiced vanilla KT and Lich King also voiced Deathwing, he really seems to be their pick everytime they need this badass voice
god dammit... they seriously gonna give Sylvanas a redemption.
Shadowlands, the expansion of missed opportunities.
That's been the story since Cata 😂
How? It's been amazing so far
@@DoftheLin Not really.
@@kaikideishuu536 Amazing if you don't think of it as Warcraft. Sylvanas has been shit, Baine has been forgotten, and Zovaal is a terrible villain.
@@MintyCoffee Sylvie just doesn't want to spend an eternity in hell because of an unjust afterlife system, Baine has never been an interesting character to begin with literally who cares about Baine xD, Zovaal is awesome so far we literally don't know enough about him to judge him yet other than that all the covenant leaders are morons who banished him because they wanted to rule the shadowlands themselves instead of having a just system which is what he presumably wanted initially and not to mention Denathrius is awesome too we get to learn what the dreadlords are and that he has been planning so many things in the background for ages it's literally still wow people are just nostalgia driven and if it isn't muh azeroth or outland they don't consider it good shadowlands have been mentioned in lore for many years and that we finally get to see what it really is is awesome and it'll only get better as they reveal more about the overall plot because shadowlands in the cosmology map is a very small insignificant part of it
I still don't know how they are gonna fix Sylvanas. All of this are so bad. THINK SYLVANAS! THINK!
It's pretty clear, she wasn't whole, she kept only the empty and vengeful side of her while all compassion, empathy and good will was sealed away in the crystal, now she has changed and is good again.
@@SagittariusSisyphus than why the constant shit face when she looks at anduin? Why care what happens next? Come on dude stop drinking jailor coolaid wake up.... It's just horrible writing.
@@bastalam Ithi k the sarcastic tone is t easy to translate in writing. Anyway my wasn’t a justification, it was just what Blizzard is going to say in order to give her the redemption they want. It’s bad writing but they will do it anyway.
@@SagittariusSisyphus Yea which sucks cause the lore was never this bad nor the story.
@@bastalam the whole raid lore is trash tier. Nothing new on Ner’zhul, no answers and destruction of previous set lore.
Did they change Bolvar's voice actor? I miss his voice from the WotLK ending cinematic.
According to Wowpedia its the same VA.
They change the effects on his voice every patch it seems, same as the Lich King.
i had a similar reaction to Sylvanas some time ago. Same actors tho, I like when the ''enhance'' the voice's eg Bolvar for sh trailer, but it feel stupid to downgrade it after w.e.
I know for sure they changed the voice actor for kael'thas sunstrider in patch 9.1, the new one is not as good but blizz have their reasons for it.
14:15 "What an opportunity there was to use Shadowlands to retcon part of and add more to Ner'zhul's story that didn't need to be clarified or there in the first place just to fit the new narrative of THE JAILER."
"Every soul can be redeemed if it wants to be" quoted by the accuser in a random voice line when interacting, hence why garrosh was sent to the maw he is too prideful, having no regrets when he should
im pretty sure he was in revendreth first
@@bigdanbilzan yea obviously lol, but he didn't atone so he's in the maw
I wouldn't have regrets if I was right either.
@@DsiakMondala I can never tell if the 'Garrosh did nothing wrong' crowd are all massive trolls just trying to get a rise out of people, or if they genuinely think that one of the most vile shitheads in a game full of vile shitheads was really a good guy.
The fact Sylvanas didn’t realize that the Jailer was the one who broke the cycle of life and death to begin with is rather… inane.
I don't really mind blizzards story if they just told it properly, their story telling is absolutely abysmal. They give you a tiny bit every half of a year. Like doing the whole games story is probably only like 30hours of playtime at most. They rely on cliffhangers so much that it sets people up for disappointment because they shouldn't be cliffhangers. They are not that interesting of plot points. Like the motivation of the jailer not being revealed just makes him less of a character to be able to sympathize with, or not telling us what happened to the arbeitr just makes that plot point that she broke completely pointless
yeah - let us take all the characters we know and love , who already had fleshed out motivations and good or goodish stories and just slap a "HEY THEY WERE THE JAILER"S ALL ALONG" and honestly that thing can never command what the Lich King did. It is just a tool to play on your knowledge and tug on nostalgia - "see you remember this one right - well actually...."
I still don't get how Garrosh got off calling Thrall a coward. Is it purely because he used the elements in their fight? Or is it because he didn't take command in Northrend or left the Horde to do the Earthen Ring thing against Deathwing? There's no sense to calling Thrall a coward. The biggest let down of Shadowlands is definitely the fact that we didn't get the huge amounts of random dead characters that we were expecting to see.. Everyone expects to see Arthas in the Maw, he's nowhere to be found. Everyone hoped to see Broxigar somewhere.. he's nowhere. Everyone hoped to see the Gul'dans together, no go. Some wanted to see Varian, he's not there.. Every Horde hoped to see Cairn and Varok again.. they're nowhere to be found.. And Vol'jin... well I think his story is going to be brought back right before the next expansion and he's going to be the main focus of expansion #7/ 8.0-8.2 or whatever it becomes.
Thrall is a coward though; he tried hiding in outlands instead of coming to the aid of the horde when they needed him. He ignored Jaina's desperate cries for help for weeks but came at Vol'jin's call. He turned down the mantle of warchief and gave it to a troll just so he didn't have to. He hasn't been good at being an orc since he got married and has been trying to live the human fantasy of a white picket fence life. He also abandoned Garrosh to a pack of old-timers who didn't approve of him and ultimately, sabotaged his efforts at being a good warchief. Then to top it all off, not only did thrall resort to using the elements in their mak'gora, but he then denounced taking any responsibility for the misery that followed his departure from the horde. Garrosh wasn't wrong; none of it would've happened had Thrall not left the horde entirely. It was supposed to be just until Deathwing was taken care of, but Thrall ran and never came back.
@@NoirRaven most of that Garrosh wouldn't know about so it's a non-issue. What happened after Garrosh was killed, doesn't matter, what happened with Jaina doesn't matter, letting Vol'jin take over.. possibly because he would've seen it but really was it a cowardly act? To me no but to Garrosh.. I think Garrosh has a really warped view, especially for someone that was sitting around bitching and moaning and unwilling to act in Outlands during TBC. The only reason he was pulled out of his funk was because of Thrall and Varok. I truly think that it's purely because he stepped aside and made Garrosh Warchief (should've been Saurfang honestly) and used the elements in their fight. Beyond that there's really no reason. Thrall hoped that Garrosh's time with Varok in Northrend would've taught him to be decent but instead he just ended up being a crybaby that would use any power to try to make sure no more orcs died, no matter how corrupting it was... In so many ways Garrosh was far worse than Gul'dan ever was.
@@jaratt85 Garrosh blamed Thrall for everything that happened to him, and called him a coward for giving him the mantle and just running off, leaving the Horde to be a dad.
@@jaratt85 also... Why would you expect and then get disappointed by things they never even mentioned would be included? That's more of a you problem if your falsely inflated expectations aren't met by reality.
@@ciram9082 they literally said during the Blizzcon panels that we'd get to see a lot of characters that we knew that'd either be enemies or show up as random rares out in the environment or be part of the story.. So far I haven't heard of a single rare popping up that's a familiar face.. I think it's another case of Blizz promising things and then never implementing them.
It's SO GOOD to look at a screen with no addons. So clean.
So I'm confused about the lich king stuff. Kil'jaeden made Ner'zhul the lich king and gave him the helm and sword but the jailer made the helm and the sword? Were the burning legion and the jailer working together?
Buddy... don't even try to find any logical thinking within WOW lore since Legion. You'll end up in huge disappointment.
@@Sorrow993 I thought the lore in Bfa was alright but they've I feel like they've retconned so many things for shadowlands that nothing makes sense anymore
@@birb7866 tbh whole BFA is a mess from the start because any1 with more than 2 brain cell would realize Slyvanas's plan to do a faction war right after both faction lost insane amount of people and resource to Legion is absolutely shitty idea. So entire Horde agreeing to mobilize on a war is already bullshit.
The actual zone story of Zandalar and Kul Treas were okay and I would consider them as only redeeming part of BFA story.
Then they butcher Naga and N'zoth,two of biggest and most anticipated threat left in Azeroth, into single patch chores.
Meanwhile Slyvanas is being impatient bitch and ultimately fail her goal by placing herself on a position where she can't no longer be leader of the horde and keep the war going.
I personally think BFA lore is worse than WoD lore which is saying a lot considering like half of WoD lore was cut out on final game.
@Triple A That still makes no sense. For several reasons, of which I'll condense into the two most important ones in my opinion.
1) If the Dreadlords were servants of the Jailer when they told Nerzhul of the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne, then where did they get that info? The Jailer? I ask this because the Jailer had to torture the Runecarver to get that information *during this expansion.* That entire torture cutscene is null and void then.
2) Dreadlords are cunning and devious. Everything they do is deception. I'm guessing they don't really trust anyone. Would they really have worked with the Jailer to give him ultimate power over everything and not expect a doublecross? Theu should realize that him having all that power merely puts their existence at risk.
--- 3) [for shits'n'gigs] Dreadlords are Nathrezim who exist in the Twisting Nether. It has been explained that the beings who exist in the Nether cannot physically die. Their body goes back to the Nether is all. Is why they have an endless army. So how is Sire Denathrius in the land of the dead? He can't kill himself to get there. Did he open a portal that Sargeras was never aware of? That none of the Titans were ever aware of? That no other being except the Nathrezim knew about? That seems a little far-fetched, because even in the Shadowlands they should have been asking who the hell Denathrius was and what was he doing there when he first got there.
Man the whole jailer is piece of sheeet get me back the idea of the lich king in the control and no jailer
Blizz saw Thanos in the Avengers, changed the reality stones with sigils, and called it a day.
BfA was with game of thrones. You are correct and it's not funny.
Nobbel's sarcasm during all this as he pokes holes in how many retcons the developers have done just to try to tell this 'story' is amazing XD Pretty much "oooh given all this lore.. what a perfect opportunity to delve into this...BUUUUT they didn't! so here we are."
I hope at the end they craft a new reality where nothing after wotlk has happend 😂
for real just hit the freaking reset button.
final fantasy did it.. kind of ^^
mop and legion were banger expansions tho
And this is why I thank god that WoW fanboys don't write the lore or design the game 😂😂😂
@@MomsterGirl do you think the writing is at peak levels right now? Or do you agree that it is in a pretty bad spot.
Sylvanas is one thing but looking back this was really cool
I feel bad for nerzul he been through so much and he was tricked to become a weapon for two evil masters and now even hell he is only thinks of his wife
Awesome video! I love how Garrosh is unapologetic to the end lol.
The only good thing out of this expansion, was Sylvanas facial expressions.
Even Garrosh did a "F* this S*"
Nobbel, will we see Varian again in the Shadowlands as a means of breaking Anduin from The Jailer? Also... where is Baine during this raid? He was one of the few to join us into The Maw originally, and has not done anything since his rescue.
He is still sitting down there and trying to shake off the terrors of the Maw.
In Fetal position, eyes closed, singing to himself about rainbows and unicorns.
In fairness, he was the only one of the 4 captured that the Jailer tortured so much, he was on the verge of perma death like Ursoc.
Useless baine
Speaking of Baine, when we gonna see Cairne?? Probably one of my favorite Tauren NPC's
The Jailer "killed" the Arbiter and yet we still don't know what broke her in the first place
a powerful soul. This was known since the very beginning... Dunno how you missed that.
"a powerful soul". Might as well say "something deadly". Doesn't sound like an in-depth explanation to me.
@@Seler213 Judging by the color my personal theory is this was the soul of Argus, the Unmaker. But even if it proves to be true, it doesn`t really matter anymore. WC3 custom campaigns have more coherent storylines than WoW at this point. Even the joke/parody ones.
@@aureliodeprimus8018 I've downloaded a Final Fantasy RPG custom map for WC3 which had a new story made by 2 people... better than this by miles.
The Jailer worked with Denathrius and Denathrius launched an anima missile at the arbiter
Imagine being so convinced that the guy named THE JAILOR gives a shit about freedom that you stake the entire universe on it.
This whole Sylvanas arc has just been so... poorly executed. Maybe I am crazy for thinking that, it's easy to say something like that when you don't see the whole picture, but the instant Sylvanas gets what her character has been building to for at least 3 expansions (since Vol'jin made her Warchief) she changes her mind? She literally committed genocide, she subjected countless souls to torture so severe they were obliterated. Everything was staked on one thing: the Jailor's stand-up-guy-ness?
This is like when Tom Haverford said "Well hindsight is 20/20" and Leslie Knope responded "I feel like normal sight should have caught that."
So, Blizzard's excuse for Sylvanas Windrunner to not get that the Guy who is the source of the Lk's Power, planted the Lk upon Azeroth..
Is the LK just bigger and more powerful?
is that she's unbelievable ..dumb?
Yeah dumb blizzard you see the jailer idea is stupid tho
She knew all that, but her end goal was for her not to end up in hell, so she helped the jailer break the system. She knew he was bad, but their alliance was an end to her means.
it is funny that Baine just chills on lower floor during the encounter
Useless guy unlike his father
can blizzard just like, stop wasting or ruining old characters? Like, Sylvanas is the obvious one but fucking with Kel'Thuzads Lore so he was "really always working for the jailer" is kind of a retroactive "fuck you" to old time fans like me, Or the arguably less offensive use of Garrosh. Its fitting for him but I think a lot of folks would agree it would have been more interesting to see more of him this expansion.
Garrosh still a better bad guy then sylvanas in one line he proves blizz wrong he would do it again not hide behind oh I was tricked into it because reasons
I mean. He might be a better villain, but that doesn't make him a better person.
@@agustinslanovic2045 no it makes him a more interesting character
While the Garrosh cut scene was pretty good, I think a lot of people are forgetting what made people not like Garrosh at the end of WoD, he wanted to put the blame on Thrall, for his own actions.
@@madjackgamingandfitness498 I fully agree
To be fair, Sylvanas is attempting to plot and scheme. Garrosh has simple intentions. There is nothing to trick him with
Man. That Garrosh. Hes such a good character. My Tauren used to look up to him as a young one still in Nagrand
Garrosh be based af ngl
Despite our best efforts *hides wild hunt's sigil in the first place anyone would look and literally brings Necrolord sigil to Torghast* Yep... our best efforts
BIG BRAIN MOVES
Honestly, Nerzhul is probably my favorite boss here. If ever there was one that deserved to be within this place, it would be him. The very first Lich king and the one that turned Arthas into what he is.
nah guardian kt fatescribe painsmith nine all better fights, nerzhul is alright i guess
Anyone else who watches Critical Role can feel how much Laura Bailey is just collecting a paycheck with these line reads lol. Not that the material is great but sometimes you can tell an actor is doing their best with bad material(like the Sylvanas VA, the story is bad but she’s trying), Laura stopped giving a fuck a while ago and she is fully justified in doing so.
she actually loves her job as jaina you could tell with BFAs warbringers. but of course im sure you can speak for her since you know her so much better than herself
Funny I think the same thing about Taliesin with Mograine. I feel like you can hear him struggling with how cringy some of his lines were. Like the Maw intro when he says "before the trail goes... cold", he sounds like he's dying inside lol
@@Styder111 Taliesin is doing a great job as Darion. For me when he said the pun with the trail, it was like he realized he is going to say pun he didn't mean to say and he realizes he has to say it anyway, so he finishes the sentence with disappointment in his voice. But all characters are getting a bad treatment. Most of the writing feels bland and shallow.
Garrosh literally wrote "DELETE" on his character, unsubbed and probably went to FF14 xD
Do you know nothing of HONOR? Of glory on the battlefield? Garrosh would rather die than go to a PVPLESS GAME!
@@imtoogoodatpvp1252 ff14 has pvp.... Its just no ESPORTS OMGH SO GOOD. Its more focused on team play and objectives than outgearing someone.
@@imtoogoodatpvp1252 i believe they are looking to put more emphasis on pvp in endwalker
This was the last straw, I aint renewing this expac and blizz is gonna have to knock the next expac out of the park for me to come back.
Could you explain what was the last straw considering you didn’t give us any information don’t get me wrong this expansion has a lot of problems I’m literally wondering what was the last straw for you
@@timar6868 The sylvanus switching sides thing, knowing blizzard they are going to try and redeem her or some BS. I mean for what 2.5 expansions now she has done horrible things, truly war crimes, but THIS was when she balks? At this point she has burned every damn bridge she has at this point but yet now she decides to go back.
@@tanks608 did you actually expected that sylvanas the literal wow merch queen would die in this raid? Because I am still surprised so many people thought she will be killed.
@@GRIMHOOD99 I really hoped she would since WoW plot armor these days is ridiculous. Would be a nice reset for blizzard to show there are actual consequences for things.
So that was not Garrosh, just his rage
Garrosh: FUCK YOU! I AM RAGE!
Why do we need sylvanas alive when we already have the primus who lead them to victory last time and was critical in his plans. Also i don't think anybody card about this whole cycle until blizzard all of the sudden made an expansion out of it.
I've been saying the same thing but it fall on deaf ears.
And isn't it weird that no other cosmic entity is involved at all with first ones and just death is? Cause if they were where the hell are they now that shit is going down.
Thankfully I enjoy fanfiction and this is going in all the directions I want. I'm so happy for Ner'zhul and Garrosh
you know it's going pretty well over here on tbc classic, we know what we're getting so we don't get disappointed
Y'all get disappointed every time there is something new added to the story or elaborated on, and then act as if you could write a better story/be a writer for blizzard when the best story you ever wrote was in fifth grade and that was even subpar.
Why Bolvar change voices like 3 times in the raid?
Blizzard really need to stop with the whole "the system is flawed" schtik... It's the same as sargeras, Amon from SC, Diablo and Malthael... Its all the same
don''t forget the flawed ingame systems to progress your character...but at least they are coherent when it comes to flawed systems
Yeah, but for Sargeras, the writing was good.
He saw that if life existed, corruption could be a danger, so he decided to destroy everything to remake a universe purged of all corruption. Stupid in a way, but at least it makes sens.
Sylvanas plan is just a joke.
Blizz really needs to have one of the Alliance leaders be the villain for once.
Skipped to the very end (and skipped back to see Garrosh). So I guess it's the "Shadowlands is free!" thing? and Sylvanas has been the hero of justice all along? How rude of us to have mistaken her!
So Sylvannas is working with the same person Kel'thuzad is working for... yeah that makes a lot of sense.
Sylvanas' character stopped making sense for a while.
Sylvanas.exe stopped working around the end of WotLK. What, was she snorting powdered saronite all day every day since then or something? Never mind, shitty writing is shitty.
I was honestly hedging my prediction on several WoW villains who died in the past -- namely Kael'thas and Garrosh, and perhaps even Sylvanas in a twist of irony -- being restored to life to have their majorly fucked up character assassination storylines continue and be appropriately redeemed by simpler and far better writing in the next expansion. First time in a while I got a prediction wrong, but oh well.
Garrosh’s line, “Every choice I made, I would proudly make again,” teases the potential release of WoD Classic and possibly WoD+
Still a better story than shadowlands
The fact that nearly all of the bosses in this raid has major lore significance tied to either them or their fights means I will probably remember this raids story as clearly as Siege of Orgrimmar's. Can't wait to play it through properly!
Sylvanas may yet prove useful to us. If her now restored soul has any shred of remorse for all the souls she has damned, she will help us fix this mess.
Or ashamed of her self
The weather is turning, stay sharp!
Does anybody ask if Uther is alive again when he gets the rest of his soul back?
omg the writing so so bad
3:13 "From the Shadowsteel Foundry we move on to the Eye's Overlook, where a familiar gaze falls upon us"
You have died, Release to the nearest graveyard [Release Spirit] [Recap]
Burn? :D :D
Thank You Nobbel something to watch before going to bed ♥️
As Sabaton sing:
ATTERO!
DOMINATUS!
Berlin is burning!
This does feel like fan fiction - bad fan fiction!
no shit sherlock, most if not all of the original blizzard team is already gone
I love the constant shade that was being thrown at how dog shit this story is
Yeah, WC3 Custom Campaigns have better stories at this point. Even the parody/joke ones.
Loved that "magic" remark lmao, cuz I said a similar thing right as I read Jaina's totally-not-contrived-explanation-of-a-plot-point.
Well, the "twist" that we all knew was coming happened, and I can safely say I really don't care where the story is going anymore. Sylvanas redemption arc is something I don't care about, and across almost a year they have done nothing to make me care about the Jailer as a villain. Seriously, we went to the freaking afterlife, with so many potentially interesting characters, and the WoW team has managed to do absolutely nothing with that concept. Shadowlands is just, such a massive letdown.
No special events for archeology profession?
They really missed a chance when they didn't call the area with the Nine Val'kyr "the Edge of Night".
I really don't envy Nobbel's job these days... somehow making sense of this awful story. lol
Considering the jailers armour has a huge hole ripped in it where the 5th key seemed to float into i'd say it was the jailers key originally and it was taken from him by force.
You are correct, the jailer used to be the arbiter.
So it's Infinity War. So creative Blizz.
The best part of the raid is Garrosh. The ending cinematic with Sylvanas was trash.
Forget the raid. Garrosh was the best part of the whole expansion!
You know Blizzard is well and truely dead when there's massive barn sized plot holes due to all the lore retcons.
The red shirt guy was impressive at one point.
I call Fatescribe Roh-kalo Patrick because his line when you first engage him sounds so much like Patrick Star from Spongebob Squarepants.
Thanks for the video baldie, appreciate it x