What I Want From DUNE MESSIAH
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2024
- What I want from Dune Messiah. Denis Villeneuve's Dune Messiah is the highly anticipated sequel to Frank Herbert's seminal novel. From the Dune Messiah ending, to Chani, to Alia Atreides, to Duncan Idaho's return and Paul Atreides death, I discuss all the things that I want to be adapted in the Dune sequel, which is based on the second novel. What do you want to see brought to life on the big screen in Dune Messiah?
Paul Atreides leads nomadic tribes in a battle to control the desert planet Arrakis. Dune is an upcoming epic science fiction film directed by Denis Villeneuve with a screenplay by Jon Spaihts, Villeneuve, and Eric Roth. The film is an international co-production of Canada, Hungary, the United Kingdom, and the United States. It is the first of a planned two-part adaptation of the 1965 novel of the same name by Frank Herbert, which will cover roughly the first half of the book. The film stars an ensemble cast including Timothée Chalamet, Rebecca Ferguson, Oscar Isaac, Josh Brolin, Stellan Skarsgård, Dave Bautista, Stephen McKinley Henderson, Zendaya, David Dastmalchian, Chang Chen, Sharon Duncan-Brewster, Charlotte Rampling, Jason Momoa, and Javier Bardem.
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
1:14 Dune Messiah Is Going To Be Different
4:12 The Holy War In Dune Messiah
7:52 Chani In Dune Messiah
12:02 Duncan Idaho, Alia Atreides And Jessica In Dune Messiah
14:27 Dune Messiah Ending: The Tragedy Of Paul Atreides
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What I Want From DUNE MESSIAH 
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In this video, I talk about the things that I want to see adapted from Dune Messiah and how I think Denis Villeneuve might go about making the film. Are you excited for a third Dune film and how would you like to see it adapted?
they are still counting peanuts and you here prophesizing for the next 20 years with denis as the messiah, you are a loon
Paul must walk into the desert. Closing shot.
YEAH!
i think closing shot is when he kills Alia and dies himself.
this, after he comes back from the desert.
@@darthvirgin7157 I really doubt they would film Children of Dune.
@@gerardotejada2531
they’re not gonna waste Anya Taylor Joy in the 3rd movie.
Paul has become what he feared most at the end of Part II, a homicidal cult leader.
but Denis also showed some promising redeeming qualities in Paul as well. and i think Denis will try to redeem him in some way.
Denis already changed some significant plot points in Dune, like Alia’s age, Chani leaving. so i think he will take some elements from Children into the third movie, to close Paul’s story arc. Denis has stated this publicly himself.
legit what I thought after finishing messiah lol
I wonder how Jason Momoa is gonna react to finding out about all the future ressurections of Duncan Idaho
he probably is happy to know that he is set up for life, he will never be out of work ever again for playing a 1000 gholas, in the near future scientists will invent cloning and clone jason momoa to be able to play all the duncan idaho's gholas for the cast of god emperor of dune. 😂
@@kronoscamron7412Yup this series could make his career. Aquaman who?? 😂
hopefully with pointless excitments, i dont think Denis will go down that very hated trope.
I did not like his resurrection. It felt pointless. The way it was done was really interesting in a good way, but it ended with: No, this is actually Duncan, this is him fully, not some clone or whatever. I'd prefer it if he could never truly be Duncan because he was a clone.
All bets are off, Denis could do anything with the source material at this point.
Never read the books but yeah, I trust Denis V will take good care of the 3rd film. Even if it greatly deviates from the 2nd book. I’m sure he will take elements from whatever he has to (Messiah/Children if Dune) so that it is epic. If only his secret project was a Starwars movie. 😬 Can’t wait!!!
Yep. He could write out the Tleilaxu, Gholas, the spacing guild's part of the conspiracy, etc. Hell, maybe Paul and Chani don't make up and it's Paul who sacrifices his humanity, not Leto II, in order to become the Worm and God Emperor. It's skipping over adapting the "story" in place of adapting the "lesson". Not necessarily ideal, but not necessarily impossible.
This is exactly right.
Yeah, he sure ruined the book with the second part, even Lynch's version is officially better now.
@@sergonioradzebetter as a faithful adaptation bur definitely not as a Dune Movie.
The closing shot not being Paul disappearing into the desert would be a crime
I’d love for Paul to have a glimpse of the Golden Path, maybe we get a tiny tease of the God Emperor, but as Paul instead of Leto II and him run away from it.
You have implanted in my head the image of Timothée Chalamet morphing into a giant worm and now I can’t unsee it. That said, it would be cool as hell.
@@jakobrenner2230 he just says “hello” non chalantly like he did to the tree waterer in the first film
What I want to see from Dune Messiah is to have Paul turn blind . I feel Timothee would give a spectacular performance!
I also hope they don’t blindfold him like neo in the matrix, I want him to stare at people with dark empty sockets, it’d go so hard
Right after the blast when he's confidently barking orders walking down the street is going to be my favorite scene in the movie
I would say that’s a must
@@MunchingSawdust23i don't think they will do that, that will be too graphic for some
@@benitocamela174 if they can do it in thor ragnarok I doubt its too graphic for Dune
Dune Messiah isnt gonna be a big old holy war movie like they depict in the ending. Its more politics and espionage, more like part 1, would like to see a Guild Navigator and a Stoneburner though.
in the book. But we need a segue from the ending into the drama so therr will be a bit of conflict depicted before the story
I think that they can keep all of the slow political stuff whilst also adding much more action. If the films like 3hrs long or more, we could have a LOTR style opening exploring the holy war, followed by abt 2 hrs of political intrigue and character exploration. From there, we get the stone burner sequence, followed by a third act battle centred around the fremen civil war. They could even get the great houses involved to give the battle even more of a sense of finality. Perhaps the conspirators could summon the houses to arrakis to help tear Paul down and to ensure that he loses the battle. You wouldnt even need to sacrifice Scytale threatening the twins, or Hayt regaining his memories. That could all be integrated into a war sequence. I dont know, personally I think that theres a lot of potential for huge action set pieces without any major story alterations.
Not depicting the jihad would be a huge mistake, despite the fact that you only see the aftermath of it in the book.
@@jeffpratt6355they already showed Alia pretty advanced in age so I figured they are skipping ahead quite a few years.
@@crankskinatra6038 That casting is the main reason why I ain't sure whether I trust Villeneuve. You don't cast Anya Taylor-Joy just for a cameo and some voice-over lines. But there's no good way to time-skip to her in the present. She's the same age as Timothée, Florence, and Zendaya!
we got Chani introducing the story in part I. Irulan introducing/catching up the story in part2. I think Alia would be suiting to introduce part3. Also a great way to introduce the now grown up alia with some fashion, right off the bat.
If I don't see Edric I will be monumentally disappointed. We need plans within plans.
They have too put Edric and Scytale or else wont be dune messiah
@@elpatron3949 Who would you cast as Fat Scytale
Dune 2 is a masterpiece, but I was disappointed that The Spacing Guild was left out all together. The had a major role on the events.
It's always a mistake to compare books and movies side by side. A movie that had the pacing, content and exposition of a book would be terrible. I do think its fair to evaluate them qualitatively. Which is to say do they convey themes, concepts and drama with equal effectiveness? I think Villeneuve achieves this. Several characters were transposed or merged and one character essentially provided exposition of the main theme which I think is smart because even after all these years and after Herbert clarified his purpose about the novel so many people just insist on missing the point.
After reading all the dune books, I’ve come around to see the huge importance of Messiah not just thematically, but in fleshing out the Dune Universe. What I really hope to see from on screen:
-Ghola Duncan / Hayt
-the guild navigator Edric
-Scytale and the tleilaxu
-the stoneburner scene
-more of Paul’s visions / prescience VISUALIZED- not just seeing his future visions, but also Paul’s ancestors, the voices, the threads of fate and cosmic things Paul sees (I especially like the idea of him seeing and rejecting the golden path even though that’s not so much in the book)
I still haven’t read the books, but I think that Paul’s talk with his father in the first film will come back around full circle in Messiah. Paul’s father basically says that if he sees himself as unfit to be a leader, Paul will still be everything his father ever wanted him to be: his son. And perhaps Paul will reminisce on this a bit towards the end of the film.
The three things I would like to see are Gholas, Guild Navigators and Face Dancers.
Agreed, give me mad stuff! That's what Dune is about 😂😂
DV seems to enjoy giving us glimpses of other worlds in the Imperium (re Salusa Secundus and Kaitain). It would be really cool if he gave us a glimpse of Tleilax, maybe even a gross out scene with the axolotl tanks?
Yes please
Yes! It's been interesting to see how fans have been struggling to accept that there's no way for part three to be a 1 to 1 complete adaptation of Dune Messiah. Or anything close to it with a 3 hour film. Which is why Denis chose to turn Chani against Paul in Dune part 2.
It wouldn't surprise me if part three spanned several years of storyline. My guess would be roughly 5-10 years after the end of Part 2. Recapping the holy war so far. And spending a good amount of time to bring the war to It's climax. A very epic-scale battle across the galaxy. Ending in the surviving great houses bending the knee to Paul. With some talk of plans within plans to seed the next act.
Act two would jump another 8-13 years ahead. Because Alia will need to be 18 for modern film Audiences. 15 year olds doing adult things is not socially acceptable today. Anya Taylor Joy playing her obviously. And without much need to explain why she looks so grown up at 14.
I would imagine this would be the act where Paul is struggling to rule the empire. And where Chani is introduced as the Freman rebel leader. And my theory is that she will have a son from becoming pregnant with Paul during Dune part 2, before they split up. And Paul hadn't seen them, or been told of his child by Chani. Who would also be 18 now. They might not name him Leto. But he would essentially be baby Leto from the first book.
It woukd be in this act 2 that Chani would learn from Paul, after some kind of attempted siege or attack on Paul himself, that Paul chose the path they were on to keep her and their son safe. And actually REVEAL to her AND THE AUDIENCE, that he was (essentially) avoiding the events from the book.
This might even happen when Paul allows Chani to stab him. Which is a vision he had in part 1. Which would give Chani some emotional release and immediate regret. Where Paul then tells her the truth. Something like, "I had to make a difficult choice. I could have stayed in the desert with you for two years before I drank the water of life. Where we would have been married. And happy. And you would have come to believe in me as the Lisan Al'Gaib. Our son would have been killed by the Harkonnens. We named him Leto, after my father. And your rage and fury would have led to billions more dying. And starving to death in the war."
Now this would create a fork in the road for the filmmakers to chose. To either go into the twins plot. Or avoid it. My theory is that it would be avoided. By Paul also explaining to Chani that she would have eventually died in childbirth, as his concubine. And that he did what he did to save them both. And that would replace the contraception plot with Irulan attempting to assassinate their son, so he would not become Emperor one day. Which Paul would eventually thank Irulan for bringing Chani and him back together. Something he would never have been able to do on his own. Similar to the contraception plot in Messiah.
Meanwhile the other plans within plans would begin to unfold. Similar to what you discussed. Regardless of whether Paul goes blind or not, I believe the film will end with him sacrificing himself to save Chani and their son. With his clear alliance being with the rebels, to keep the desert dry.
It may end in this time period. Or jump forward again if Paul becomes blind in the second act. Which might also follow the twins plot. Though I think not. I think we might actually see some entirely new twist from the book. And I have a feeling that it might involve Lady Margot Fenring. Considering two things... First, because she was so good in part 2. And second, because she was ALSO pregnant with the child of Feyd. Who would be the same age as Paul's son and sister.
Marie Fenring, who Frank Herbert's son wrote about. Which could be a nice twist for this story. With time constraints of movie making, it's difficult to continue to discard and introduce new characters. Lady Margot had such an amazing introduction, it would be such a waste to remove her from the saga going forward. And the Bene Gesserit plot needs to be a significant threat to the viewer.
Paul is already clearly the most powerful figure in the story. Miles beyond what any Bene Gesserit we've seen. The only significant members being Lady Jessica, Reverend Mother Helen, and Lady Margot. Princess Irulan being more of a minor figure in terms of ability. Having never used the voice. Her allegiances being torn between the sisterhood and Paul in Messiah.
The question is, how does Denis increase the threat of the Bene Gesserit in part 3. Since we've also seen they are no match for Paul's prescience. And their only concern is ultimate control of the ultimate power.
I think one surprising way to do this would be if we found out that the Reverend Mother Helen ordered Lady Margot to secretly drink the water of life while pregnant. A desperate move from the Reverand Mother to bring forth a child to contend with Paul. A preborn, now adult Marie Fenring. Who's only mission in life is to avenge her father, Feyd Rautha. Influenced by the now blue-eyed Lady Margot.
This would allow a few things. A plot for Lady Jessica to return to, without being so remote on Caladan. Something for Alia to contend with. And that's important because she does not kill the Baron Harkonnen in part 2 like the book. So she would not be haunted by the Baron later on. HOWEVER... they COULD have a preborn Marie haunted by her father. With Austin Butler returning as a vision for Marie. Guiding her to avenge him. Along with her mother, Lady Margot.
To me, this would be the ultimate spy vs spy. With Paul's priority being to protect Chani and their son from CRAZY danger. Where only his mastery of time would stand any chance of anticipating the multiple avenues of danger. Including the reintroduction of Duncan Idaho.
In the end, all will be as Paul has seen it. But the audience only catches a glimpse, here and there. Where everyone is suprised in the end. Whether you read the books or not.
I believe Denis will leave the door open for the future for Dune going forward without his direction. Though I'm sure he will no doubt be brought in as the producer for the franchise's major efforts.
I have a feeling we might see a final moment with Alia allowing a tiny baby Sandworm to crawl around her hand and arm. Or something to that effect. As a nod to the golden path.
The story will most likely wrap up for Paul in heroic tragedy. With many tears being shed. On screen and in the audience. With many moments of shock and awe leading up to it. Where the audience, along with Chani, is ultimately proud of Paul. With full understanding of the burden he had to bear. And a small teaser of what may come to pass next. Clicking book fans back in. And exciting everyone for the future of Dune.
That's the short version anyway 😂❤
Also I believe the spy vs spy plot will take the lives of Stilgar and Gurney. Paul's most trusted advisors. Building empathy for Paul as the reluctant ruler.
Wtf noone is reading this
@@babyhols777 haha it's a bit late for that prediction. Better luck next time. And if that's a bit intimidating, I wouldn't recommend tackling the novels just yet.
Maybe stick with the audiobooks for now, and circle back in a few years. 🤔🤷😂
Do you guys think they should include more action in this adaptation? Personally, I want them to keep the core of the story the same but maybe just expand upon the idea of the fremen rebellion to give us a third act battle.
Denis already did this a lot in part 2. So yes, why not if it makes for an enjoyable experience. It doesn’t need to have 0 action in order to do the book Justice.
Yeah, thats exactly what im getting at. Its going to be a long wait for this film.
What if Messiah begins with Chani discovering she is pregnant... with the twins? Denis could accelerate the timeline by moving that pregnancy to the forefront. It could also bring Chani and Paul back together with Paul's realization that the holy war is beyond his control as he struggles to try to contain the devastation.
Could very well be another route he takes. I like that. I think he will definitely do something that will bring them together. Whether its to do with Chanid pregnancy, the fremen camp scene with Scytale or showing a bit of the 12 year gap
You mean without a time skip? How would they manage the whole
Alia/Hayt story?
Oh maybe it would actually be better to have the children born only a few years after Alia. But that could condense the Chani arc way too much. Idk. I'm excited though.
Okay BOOK SPOILERS AHEAD but I'm back in the comments bc I rewatched Dune Part 2, and I'm somewhat convinced that Chani is pregnant (with the twins). Not merely bc of the intimacy depicted in the film, but because of one part of the editing.
When Gurney takes Paul to the atomic arsenal, Chani is there. And at a point, Gurney instructs Paul to unlock the door "only with your genetic heritage." And in that moment we cut to Chani's face, looking concerned. Just a random shot? I think not. I think she is worried about the fact that Paul's "genetic heritage" is connected to power and destruction (symbolized by the atomics) and what that could mean for the genetic heritage of the child (well, children) she is carrying. An interesting juxtaposition in the books too, since that is mainly about the bene gesserit being concerned with CHANI's "wild" genetic heritage. This gives a counter narrative that Chani is concerned about this other genetic heritage that has raw power.
Just my theory but hey!
"Messiah" is more or less the capstone of a Greek tragedy, not a heroic "victory" or even a Vader-like "redemption" like other more typical "hero's journey" stories Hollywood is used to.
It HAS to end with Paul leaving to wander into the desert to die in accordance with Fremen custom.
Such coverage as it gives to future events in "Children of Dune" - possibly introducing the idea of the Golden Path by name (and including some vague but unspeakable outline of the burden/curse passed on to the next generation - with maybe a glimmer of hope thrown in, as Villeneuve often likes to do) can be done by prescient vision, of course, as Paul's mental state deteriorates and ends with his final act in "Messiah".
But the core theme of the film has to be Paul's "feet of clay": his fatal tragic flaw of cowardice leading to his apparent suicide-by-desert and abandonment of his own family members to their own tragic fates.
Between the events of the galactic jihad and the events leading to Paul's final act, there's lots of potentially very cinematic stuff to be shown - though the film cannot and must not be another Return of the King or Return of the Jedi "war movie".
Last Jedi?
@@king_supreme1102 Oops. I meant Return of the Jedi, obviously... Comment edited. (Thanks for the catch...)
Love it! Thank you for this~ They could even have (towards the beginning) Chani attempting to assassinate Paul but him (a) fully expecting it, (b) her unable to do it because she still loves him, and (c) him explaining that all of his choices have been to protect her (and maybe to protect their future child/ren). So much dramatic fodder to play with there in the first act.
I also think Alia will be a child in Messiah, bc of the timeline, age of actors, and flash forward to the future in Paul's Dune part 2 vision (i think that future is beyond the third film). No Hayt/Alia romance but rather the Hayt narrative will focus on Hayt and Paul.
All said, Denis is gonna make it great. Look at what he has done for parts 1 & 2. He's an amazing storyteller.
They don't have to explain how they get back together because Paul said "she'll come to understand". Villeneuve didn't put ATJ in part two thinking that someone might use her in a potential sequel to Messiah, at least I don't think so. I would prefer that they do a quick montage of the holy war narrated by Princess Irulan and then jump straight to Messiah.
@@brotherjohnnyxXxXi think they do on screen. And it’s a way to have some holy war action. Denis is gonna have to include some sort of action to make the film engaging
I think Denis is gonna have to add some action sequences.
@@maciedixon3983 I don't think so, but I'm ok if they include some aspects of the novel Paul of Dune/Muad'Did's jihad to satisfy the action junkies.
Yes, it looks as if Denis will be altering the story in some substantial ways as evidenced by Chani's departure at the end of Part Two. We already see that some kind of reunion must occur - the question is then: will Chani be sympathetic to Paul, or, will she be a leader of some kind of Fremen rebellion to take him down? Messiah could begin with a voice-over introduction from Chani's character showing battle scenes from the "holy war" and what state this has left the former empire in. -From there, they might show the changes to the capital city of Arrakeen with the construction of Alia's massive temple complex and the changes in life there with the massive number of pilgrims now flocking to Arrakis on a Hajj. I'm hoping that in Messiah Denis explores the Guild, the Guild / Steersman culture more and also shows us more about the Spice itself and how it is actually used by them. -Yes guys, it's going to be a LONG next few years...
I don’t think there will that many changes.
Something everyone seems to be forgetting is Denis broke Dune into two parts, Messiah is dense enough I could see it being its own duology or even trilogy, another thing people are forgetting is Chani is already pregnant by the time she's decided to leave, this might be her "reason to return"
.I also think k he has a lot of logistical problems with Alia, he has the actress, but the time period for her aging (if she ages naturally) will make it hard on the story
I think DV might swap out the Duncan Alia romance and replace it with either Chani or Jessica and Duncan romance (more likely Jessica as she is absent from Messiah) and him being with Alia would be a bit weird even if she's aged up due to the infusion of pre natal sandworm sizzurp
They'll obviously keep him overcoming his brainwashing, they'll probly do it mid fight with Paul too, which will be the lull climax before Paul walls off into the desert
I hope they change a lot of things dune messiah sucks lol
I hope to see the nuance of Paul’s character and circumstances in the next part. Everyone keeps saying “Paul’s the bad guy” which really dumbs things down and is an insult to the original story.
I’d love to see it be more similar to the first movie since it can’t be as action-packed as part 2 and I don’t think it’s necessary to make Paul an unlikable or unfavorable character for Villenueve to portray Herbert’s intended message
Exactly ! I hope also because for now for watchers Dune seems only to be a story with a twist. It's not and so it's more substantial than that.
Well, this varies from viewer to viewer. Whatever Villenenueve will do to Paul, some people will see the protagonist as good, some as evil, and some as more blurry. What I see black can be gray to my friend.
Yet it is clear that no Dune character is ideal or the ones you can trust them with your life. But this is our moral side's voice. "Do not justify the monster." We can easily love these charismatic figures no matter the cost. Like a guilty pleasure. So, this shows our weaker or darker side. Or make us realize something as a result of the clash of our desires and our common sense.
Herbert did not create a story in which the reader was forced to think that this guy was gray and that fellow was good and this guy was evil. Nor he asserted that his overall story was gray. No, he did not give us dogmatic patterns. He did not even expect to see the reader was ok with the author's all arguments. He just wanted us to think thoroughly before acting for something. Thinking, not accepting like a sheep. He created a story from which every reader could come to their own conclusions. But this does not mean that Frank Herbert did not put certain unchangeable messages there. He did put. But those were the messages and character personalities and motivations he understood from the events and characters he brought forth. Yet the final version of the work of a good artist always conveys more than what that artist thought while he/she was manifacturing that work. The same thing applies to Dune. So, Frank Herbert saw House Atreides charming but dangerous. So they should be represented like that in every single adaptation. But some readers and viewers can see Atreides in the way Herbert saw or totally ugly or completely charming.
This same thing literally happened in Breaking Bad. In 2022, Vince Gilligan said that he did not have big sympathy for Walter, that he ruined a life because of his own pride and that Skyler deserved better treatment from the audience. Then many Breaking Bad fans reacted this statement and asserted something like Gilligan talked rubbish and they had not get that idea from the show. But there were many other fans said that Walter had never been better than his wife and that he ruined many lives including that of Hank because of his freaking pride etc.
This. This what makes good stories really good. Main messages are clear. But everyone's way of seeing those messages can be different. Some love dangerous and immoral leaders just because they are charismatic and strong. Some do not see this as true and legitimate strength and so hate them. Some do not know what to think and thus live with ever contracting and changing feelings.
Darth Vader is loved more than Obi-wan even if it is clear that George Lucas created him as the personification of calamity.
And our feeling can change through time. Today, say, I have sympathy for Paul. But may be, 5 years later, I will totally hate him.
I want the rug to be pulled out from under us and have the last 20 minutes be God Emperor giving one of his monologues.
I want Alia Atradies to get her dues. She got robbed in the last film.
Well she wasn’t born in time to kill the Baron so too late for that stuff, sadly.
Alia's starring role is in "Children of Dune", not "Messiah": hers is the next installment of Dune's multi-generational curse on the Atreides. But there's going to be a need in "Messiah" to show her increasingly bizarre nature...
Truth to tell, her role in the first Dune book wasn't actually all that essential to setting up her later tragedy: you just have to find another slightly different way to get her to her abominable state (with/without a knife involved and not necessarily with the same kind/personality of "possession"). Perhaps some vision-fuelled "Messiah" scenes of her as a child jihadist as the trigger?
Jezebel needs her dues
Denis also said in a recent interview that he may do children of dune after messiah but he wants to make that decision after messiah has been released
was waiting for this video only. after watching the movie ❤
I feel like doing a straight adaptation or even close adaptation of it will be very tough since it does feel underwhelming as a direct sequel to the first Dune, especially as a trilogy ender. I think they'll incorporate stuff from Messiah and Children of Dune to make it more satisfying and tragic.
Zendaya is such a fantastic actress that in Part two you can tell how conflicted she is, not wanting to fall prey to this oppressive prophecy but also she clearly has a love for Paul, seen in that final fight. It’s remarkably more interesting then she is in the book and I think movie Chani transitions better into the Dune Messiah book then she does from book to book
I’d like to see elements of the Golden Path and a glimpse of God Emperor Leto II in Paul’s visions of the future.
The question is if Denis will leave the oportunity to other director to continue the story or make an ending with no sons and Paul walking in the sand to just die in the end
Id like to see everything that makes Messiah weird but with abit more action tbh
Denis should keep going with the original Frank Herbert books as long as he can. This may be the only chance to see them all put to screen.
Dune Part Three should be one of the greatest classic romantic tragedies on epic scale. Casablanca and Titanic. I just want to cry for hours. Tone should be melancholia in the whole movie.
I wanna see a group of fremen seeing their first ocean, I think that could be so beautiful
Actually, the trilogy elements that I’d like see mirrored the most is not Return of the King, Return of the Jedi or Godfather 3 (which is awful, by the way) but probably The Dark Knight Returns. While not entirely perfect, this was also representing a follow on story some years after the bombastic elements of the second movie. Characters were visibly older (and jaded) and this accentuated the rise of a new threat. It is also a story that is fundamentally a ‘last chapter’ of the central character (Batman or Paul) with some conflicting love interests and political intrigue.
*Dark Knight Rises
I just want the stone burner and the events shortly after that adapted, blind Paul is so badass.
Irulan will not narrate the opening. It will be Alia. It just makes a beautiful triptych for each part to be introduced by a different woman close to Paul.
I wanna see the unholy sandtrout transformation Leto undergoes, that had to be by far the most interesting description offered in the books where he grafts sandtrouts to their skin
God Emperor is my favorite Dune book but that movie will never be made
I’d like for Children of Dune to get made, but it needs to end there
Agreed, its way to philosophical
Same but yes can’t be a movie
I’ve never seen it, but doesn’t _The Godfather, Part 3_ suck?
It’s not as great as the first two but it’s still a pretty good movie.
@@Nineteen1900Hundred it’s mid
It’s better if you watch it not as a part 3 but an an epilogue
Fingers crossed we’ll finally get to see a guild navigator and more on the spacing guild
Something I also want in Dune Messiah is that I want Denis Villeneuve to leave open the possibility for a fourth movie in case WB decides to make Children of Dune.
Which is why I’m hoping he doesn’t bring in certain plots from that story, essentially sabotaging a future attempt at a Children of Dune movie from another filmmaker.
I feel like dune is going to be the next start wars, they’ll probably continue to do them until they have nothing else to do just because it’s making them insane money. Which is what I’m worried about, villeneuve has already said he doesn’t want to do anymore after messiah but I doubt that’ll stop WB and I think they might ruin this with their greed.
Dennis Villeneuve declared that he will make only 3 Dune movies. Last one is Messiah
@@Kannot2023 That doesn’t mean another filmmaker can’t continue the story
@@zoomerjack5435Knowing how strange the books get after Messiah, I think that once Denis leaves, finishing Dune 3 with an epic ending for Paul, it will be when the franchise goes into decline like most Hollywood franchises do after the 3rd part and even more so if Denis sets the bar high with the ending of Messiah.
I'm honestly perfectly fine with Dune 3 being the last movie, i mean, who's else can Direct like Denis V.?
My gut feeling is that the 12 year gap will be heavily compressed. Just pick up where part 2 left off. As a fan of the films who hasnt read the sequels, i think its fine to take the major beats of Messiah and find a way to transpose them into a tighter timeline with more action that maintains the feel and concludes the story of parts 1 and 2.
Maybe. But this will be a letdown in terms of Alia. Come on, there is no logical reason to ignore her importance in the story. She is literally top 5 characters of Messiah. And in that book, she is way easier to adapt. I mean, why then did cast Anya Taylor Joy as grown up Alia? And Villenenuve has said that he wishes to work with Anya and Florence more in Dune Messiah (if it is greenlit).
Villeneuve told EW…
“I love her,” Villeneuve said of Taylor-Joy. “I would love to make ‘Dune Messiah’ just to work with her and Florence more. Those actresses are so inspiring. They give me chills and the will to do another one.”
As for her age, it is irrelevant. Daniela Amavia was 36 when she played 16 year old Alia in mini-series and it did not look terrible. 30 year old Olivia Newton John played 18 year old Sandy in Grease.
Anya looks younger than her actual years when she is in zero make-up. There is no need to make up a story in which Alia grows too rapidly. It would be a logical error after all. And too absurt even for Dune standards. I would ask if they wanted aging fast due to WoL stuff, then why didn't they make her born prematurely and grow into a child in 7 months in Part 2?
@@hypatia137 very good point. I'm not very familiar with the plot of the sequel so my opinion is solely based on the form of the first two films. Or maybe there will still be a time jump but the war will still be active. I find it hard to believe there won't be a lot of war action in the third film. Damn I gotta read these books 🤣
Actually Im waiting what theyll do with Alia. We didnt get to see enough of Baron Harkonnen in these two films. He was only a dude in an oil bath and said threatening things. But we didnt get to see his cunning plots and twisted mind.
So through Alia we could get that finally! And that would be very interesting to see!
Here's what I want
1.) Edric, my beloved existential fish man, must have a good amount of screen time.
2.) Alia's insanity must be properly portrayed. I want us to be in her head and hear the voices she does.
3.) I want flashbacks of the Jihad. There's a scene in Messiah when a Fremen is talking to Duncan, and he talks about how because of Muad'Dib, he swam in an ocean. I'd like this scene to be seen, not talked about. Maybe it'd make a good opening for the movie, with little to no dialog. I want to see the effect of the Jihad on the Fremen.
4.) When Paul holds Leto II at the end, I want him to see a premonition of the Golden Path, and mayhaps even the God Emperor, and that's when he decides to walk into the desert.
5.) More action. I love Messiah, but the plot doesn't have much urgency. If they can find a way to make it more engaging beyond the philosophy, dialog, and characters, I'd be happy. I feel like with the exception of Feyd Rautha, we didn't get many good 1v1 fights. Gurney vs. Rabban, for instance, could have been longer. So more knife fights and plans within plans would be fun.
An interesting way to open Messiah could be Farouk's monologue where he describes the invasion and subjugation of an ocean world. "The Sea cured me of the Jihad..." and so forth. Captures the wider themes of the book while allowing one to show the jihad in all it's horror.
i really hope Villeneuve continues past messiah. unlikely, but it would be glorious to see the God Emperor of Dune
This will definitely be Denny’s biggest challenge yet. I think his Messiah definitely needs to include Duncan as a Ghola, along with Paul losing his eyes from the stone burner. Alia is such an interesting character, and if the movie continues with her arc loyaly, she will need to be aged up for sure.
I look forward (but not too far 😉) to seeing what he puts to screen!
Denis Villeneuve can take as long as he needs to do whatever he wants and i am confident we will get an awesome third movie
”the messiah booklet”, rather :). i disagrree with Villeneuve about Messiah being ”the end of the story of Paul”. It is not - the end of the arc (for him and Alia) comes with Children of Dune. So, if we get a 3.5 hour ROTR mega-finale, I would hope for this merger, as in the older miniseries. Also., excited about Alia/Anya. Now... let`s talk God-Emperor. Now that`s a 10 hour gig :))
I wonder if Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson could be involved in this new script to make sure it stays with Frank Herberts original vibe.
Spoilers:
Def would like to see the film open with how the book opens, with the interview which depicts the surge of historians during muad’dibs imperium, maybe to help give us a rundown of what happens during the time skip (which will probably be longer, like 18 years, so Alia’s character is, well, of age if they stick with the Idaho love story), then after, flash back to a little bit after part two, maybe like a year, to depict the holy war in like a scene or two (and show that it’s not really a ‘war,’ but a massacre by muad’dibs fremen force) and in this time show how chani and Paul get back together in this first act. Then flash back to present and have things play out however denis wills.
Some things I’d personally want to see out of denis’ rendition:
- keep pretty much everything with the ghola hayt (prob my second favorite character after Paul)
- include more lady Jessica instead of throw her on caladan the whole time, maybe some gurney too (mainly because Rebecca Ferguson and Josh Brolin killed their roles in the last two films)
- make Paul go blind (huge part of the book, and it leads to some of the coolest scenes in the whole series, as well as keeping the ending with Scytale the same; the way Paul kills them is so sick)
- if Denis doesn’t want to do CoD or any further book-to-film renditions of dune, then maybe he can change certain aspects of the story, such as the dynamic between Paul-chani-irulan, such as not have chani become pregnant, although I’m not sure what Paul could be trying to do the whole film, since throughout the book Paul is facing the issue of whether to try and stop the future where he sees his concubine die or let it ride through. Maybe chani dies in combat?
- if Paul dies as he does in the book, let it be by a worm
This book is so sick and I love how Herbert handles Paul’s character and how he shows Paul’s prescience to be a curse that only brings pain, causing him to do evil acts, and think much more selfishly. I also love that in a time where there are so many people that want to have Paul killed throughout the book, it’s basically on his own accord that he dies, not at the hands of another person or scheme (I guess in a way it was some people’s schemes that lead Paul to his death, but because of his prescience, Paul almost certainly knew of his path and chose to follow it anyway). I’m hoping Denis keeps a lot of weird stuff in, as well as really depict how morally corrupt of a man Paul is, with how he treats the throne room scenes, and how Paul looks down on basically everyone around him besides like chani. Bring long awaited death to a false hero, a fake prophet, and an inadequate husband to Irulan 😅
I think general audiences would prefer to see the war unfold, rather than skipped over through visions. I’m sure they could splice together an epic final film that both shows the battles and Paul’s fall.
I’m thinking the same thing. They teased at it pretty hard at the end of part 2. Messiah is a good book, but there is VERY little action and drama that happens. It’s a lot of sitting around and talking which isn’t very conducive to a film. To make a kind point short, I think you’re right. I don’t see them being faithful to the book. I see the holy war still going strong in the next film which will be a big added plot point, while at the same point trying to hit the main points of messiah.
1. Irulan nagging
2. Tlelaxu shenanigans
3. Older fremen complaining about “kids these days”
I hope that Villneuve gives Walken the narrative that his daughter Wensicia Corrino has in his book. I want to see more of him. I think Chani is already pregnant with the twins. The danger to the twins will lead her back to Paul. I think Alia will grow up unnaturally fast making her regent although she not much older than the twins. If Villneuve isn't going to do Children of Dune, I can't imagine anyone else doing it. Children of Dune ends Paul's journey and is the real ending to this part of the saga.
Who do you think would be the best directors for the other 4 books and would you also like to see Brian Hebert/Andersons concluding 2 books also adapted?
Where is Paul Weir these days? I will state that ‘Master and Commander’ ranks as one of my favorite adaptations. I want to check out Neil Gaiman’s work a bit too as he is apparently adapting ‘Nova’ - a favorite book of mine from my youth.
Yorgos Lanthimos would do really well with God Emperor of Dune imo
@@maxsoundandmusic holy shit that’s a brilliant pick
Can't wait for Hans Zimmer's "Departure" to go alongside "Arrival".
I'm on the fence with Chani. On one hand, I feel like if she tries gurilla warfare against Paul, he'd see it and know how to avoid it or stop their efforts, which maybe would prove to Chani he CAN actually see the future and maybe she could come to terms with "yes, the Mahdi is a story the BG started, but Paul came early and he is firmly agains the BG and on the Freman side so does it matter?"
On the other hand, and I never thought I'd ever say this, I find myself slightly rooting for Irulan and Paul. She's portrayed as more sympathetic and empathetic of Paul in the movie, she's against the BG plan to eliminate the Atreides, she disagreed with her father's silence, she seems horrified by things she's learned happened in the background and seemed to realize Paul and Chani were together and seemed sorrowful for Chani at the end.
Whereas Chani constantly flip flops between trusting and distrusting Paul, constantly second guesses his motives, repeatedly tells him he's not Freman (by blood, which I mean, she's only 3/4 Freman by blood so she can't really talk about blood purity), and was literally willing to let him die (as far as she knew) when he drank the water rather than do what she could to help him survive all because it could prove a "prophecy" true.
Paul did everything he could to learn Freman ways, to be Freman, to fight for them and their cause, to do everything he has for the benefit of all as much as he could...and she kept on about "i'm not fighting for him I'm fighting for MY people" as though he hasn't been the entire time he's been with them? As though he wasn't willing to die for the Freman cause? At that point, I really wouldn't blame Paul for forming a friendship with Irulan that turned into more. Again, as far as Chani knew about the effects of the water, she was going to let him die and had to be forced to help the man she claimed to love...
I really liked that Chani was a little more cautious of the "prophecy" and Paul's abilities, like she got to know the true him and not who the Freman saw him as, but one of my favorite parts of the book was the love they had for each other and the movie made it feel a little too one-sided :(
I'd actually love to see Irulan reach out to Chani in Messiah and be the one to convince her to come back to Paul. She's been preparing for this role her entire life as she claims, she knows politics, she knows she'll never be the wife of Paul's heart, but that he's also a person who suffered because of her father. He lost his father, his home, basically his mother and sister (to BG propaganda/the waters), most of his friends, and now his own freewill with ihs visions and "destiny" all because of her father's actions. I could see her feeling guilt and wanting to be able to GIVE him something he loves back than be another person who takes from him.
What about who we would like to see join Dune Messiah fan casting .? For me as part of resistance my one if my favorite actors Tahar Rahim or Rami Malak!
i sure hope messiah wont be the last film, I want to see leto the second.
I'd like a 2 part Dune Messiah.
I trust Denis completely, but he wrote himself into a bit of a corner by having Chani leave at the end. That will have to be resolved during the first act, probably by Paul crushing her resistance and having her returned to him, and I think this is hinted at by Paul doing the double take as he stands with Irulan
Dev Patel as Korba the Qizarate Panegyrist
Rami Malek as Scytale
Hugo Weaving as Scytale
Jesse Plemons as Scytale
Kyle MacLachlan as Scytale
Jessie Buckley as Wensicia Corrino (I think her and Florence Pugh would have good chemistry as sisters)
Mark Hamill as Edric
Amer El-Erwadi as Farok (He played Huge Fighter who Paul talks to at the war council in Dune 2. Would be interesting to see him come back as a war veteran)
I just want great love story that makes me cry.
Personally I would love to see dune messiah more along the lines of the war of the planet of the apes. People thought it was gonna be Big war and a lot of action, but it was internal war between apes and the humans.
I honestly wouldn't even mind some rewrites of the story in small ways
In order to keep it true to the source material, broad audience appeal and spectacle has to be slightly put on the back burner
Just depict the war in flashbacks in reference to whatever point is trying to be told
They can easily feature a few different Jihad campaigns peppered throughout the movie while still following the core narrative as the book. Like a 10 - 15 min opening battle sequence or Paul speaking about his horriffic actions in a past battle or just a straight up nightmarish memory that Paul relives before waking up.
I feel like Dune messiah needs to be 4 hours long in order to cover the holy war and then the conspiracy and of course the end of Messiah. If he only covered the book it would be too boring for a movie adaptation especially after pt 2. People want to see the holy war. I think the time jump should be near halfway and the rest after. Though this makes it difficult since Paul goes from just ascending to emperor to...the end all in one movie. I would lile to see a lot of things covered lile the spacing guild and the tleilaxu and duncan idaho but ut may not be enough time.
Is this movie gonna happen?
Hopefully Alia Atreides gets a role
She's one of my favorite characters in the books
Dune Messiah part 1……Dune Messiah part 2….will make all make sense.
I hope the first act is the Holy War and the rest of film follows the book
its not us to choose what we want..its Denis V..I trust him with any thing and so far he hasn't missed..the guy knows his story telling, characters, arts and film..trust Denis is all we need.
Its just my thoughts man. Denis will do whatever he wants and im sure it will turn out great!
All that didn't keep him from fucking up part 2.
What I don't want to see is a take over Chani story arc. This was never her POV storyline.
No faith in Denis?
No one cares what you think, Dune Messiah COMPLETELY from Chanis POV FTW
Why comment then? lol.
Also, read the book@@o-wolf
Not sure how he is going to proceed with this change. the plague of 'changing stories for modern audiences' has been creeping in. And nothing I have seen that way works or improves the source material. @@fenixa2z936
Chani will drink the water of life, take the sandtrout onto her skin, and transform into God Emperor. The Spice is Female!
I just want Scytale, Edeic, Hayt and Bijaz!
I hope they don’t do any promotional material with Jason Mamoa. I want non book readers to see him show up. I wish I could experience the comedy of seeing Jason Mamoa show back up after you watched him die in part 1. I’d laugh if I didn’t know it was coming. I might laugh knowing it’s coming.
I do know what Denis will do. He will cut many important character moments and subtlety from the story, to make room for brand new action scenes, that are there just so the zoomer audience doesn't fall asleep.
He’s an honorable director who makes it according to his interpretation. There are somethings that just can’t be adapted.
@@christiand5954 his interpretation is bad. He misses the point, and traded depth for popcorn action. That is a bad decision. It's not about what can and can't be adapted, it's about Denis not doing a good job at adaptation in general.
The ecological aspect of the transformation promised by Paul could throw another wrench in Paul's reign: more water on Arrakis could spell doom for the spice production and alienate the "classic fremen" like Chani that did not want a green Dune.
I do not get the idea that Chani does not want some green in her planet. She just does not want a green paradise for the sake of prophecy and its detrimentral effects on her people.
idk if the 3rd movie cant really do " ramifications" this movie needs to be a return of the king moment, we need to see big wars and stuff or it just doesn't translate. and it will fizzle insterest in this trilogy. it needs to feel like a climax that is above the small battle we have had in dune 1-2. or people will dislike it.
I don’t think they’ll recast older versions of these characters. I think they’ll divert from the book enough to keep this cast age appropriate.
What if we give Leto II’s roll as God Emperor to Paul? Heresy?
Paul gholas phycology is all i want
There is definitely alot of ways he could go about making Messiah. Given that he will only do one more movie; I personally wish it would be a 4 hour epic that could have an intermission to separate the holy war with hints of the political theatre, form a second half that could be played out more closely to the book.
In a perfect world, Messiah would get split into 2 movies, kinda how they did the first book.
I hope this one has more dialog
I wouldn't hold my breath, Denis Villenueuve has been quoted as wanting to make a film without dialogue .
@@corrupt1238Yeah. Without dialog it just wouldn't be dune. The politics of dune are so dependent on dialog. I feel like it just wouldn't work well. The thin dialog in the part 2 just didn't work for me that well
just want to see a fricken guild navigator
I think Chani could already be pregnant at the end of part 2. There was a suggestion of a sex scene after all.
What you should want is what Dennis will give you.. there you go! 3sec video
I want every Frank Herbert book on film
All the Dune books
The Dosadi Experiment
Whipping Star
Destination Void
The Jesus Incident
The Lazarus Effect
Paul ark going to be like Eren from Attack on Titans
Not an atomic blast, it is 'the stoneburner'.
I think alia will narrate the opening given how we’ve had a dif female narrator each film and it would introduce although irulam makes a lot of sense ofc
It should be a 2 parter honestly this first part will be the war and the second part will be political and Paul’s death each can be around 2hrs and 20min films to wrap up this brilliant story
Tbh I think Denis will take some things from the source material but ultimately this will be different, and probably better than Messiah which in my opinion was kinda half baked.
What about Paul coming back in Children as the prophet in disguise?
They should have done a trilogy of just the first book. Don’t get me wrong I’m thankful and happy for what was made but I realized after seeing part 2 that it was missing a lot of what could have made absolutely magnificent. Very much looking forward to third movie but after reading the first one after seeing part 1 I wished they just did a trilogy for the first book
I agree. And I also don’t think the story of the later books needs to be told.
Huh? 3 movies for that first book is just insane. I just finished the book and there honestly was only a few things cut that probably would’ve amounted to an extra 30 minutes. 2 films are enough. I miss some of the omissions, but its not a dealbreaker.
Denis Villenueuve might do what the Sci Fi channel did, combine Dune Messiah & Children of Dune