i once threw a rock down a mountain slope, trying to cause a rockslide, and an unseen guy yelled up and asked "what the hell are you doing?". that scared the hell out me and i still feel shame whenever i think of that. no one got hurt, but there was the potential because that guy was hidden somehow and i never saw him when or after. thank God i got through my teens without killing anyone
people forget how intensely thoughtless and stupid they were as kids and teens. i honestly think we're all lucky we didn't kill someone in our youth. thankfully most of us grow up and think about things before we act.
Appologies , When I was 5 years old , our little gang used to enjoy breaking out windows of old derelic industrial buildings along the water . Once we thru stones through windows of an abandoned steel fabrication plant behind our house . Shortly after the stones came back after us from the other side . The spirits were very angry . We ran ! 😮
When I was 14 I was at camp and skateboarding back into the cabin with my headphones on and the rest of the kids were planning to drop a cinder block on a firework on the ground to make it go off from the balcony. They didn’t see me, I didn’t see them and when it landed right behind me and I looked back I’ll never forget their faces. What a terrible feeling. A split second and you wouldn’t have to read my dumb comment.
Here's another lesson. Don't wear headphones or ear buds while running, hiking or riding around on anything anytime in public or when around large groups of people. One must be aware of their surroundings & that means not just visually, but auditorily as well. There's been plenty of joggers & riders and even just walkers whio were injured or killed by cars because they didn't hear anything coming. Just recently wear I live, a woman was just simply walking through a woods trail and killed by a falling branch. Other walkers found her. She was wearing earbuds. If she had been completely alert, she would've heard the branch break off and given herself a chance to get cover or move out of the way. In fact, if she simply stopped walking upon hearing the branch creak & break, she might have not walked into it's path of fall. So even in what seems like the calm serenity of the wild, one must keep their eyes and ears peeled at ALL times.
My mother nearly ran me over when she accidentally stomped the gas pedal to back out of the driveway. I was standing at the foot of the driveway just slightly off to the side The car came so close to me that outside mirror grazed my arm! It's amazing how many potentially deadly encounters we all face in a lifetime. Usually, there's no harm done. It's still scary, though
I’m Avery, and this story is about my dad. I hadn’t heard this video existed until a stumbled upon it today. It is always a bit surprising to me that something like this can get posted without me having any knowledge of it… I believe Dr. Grande gave a thoughtful analysis but I don’t quite see what is so rare about a remorseful killer. There’s a reason involuntary manslaughter charges exist. Anyway, please remember when you are commenting that this isn’t just a crazy, what-are-the-odds story to analyze. We are real people living real lives just like you. I lost my dad when I was 7 and I think about him and miss him everyday, despite not having many memories of him. It’s true I’ve read that Luke was very remorseful, but I’ve always wanted a direct apology from him and I don’t think I’ll ever get one. He made a stupid, wreckless decision that resulted in me losing my dad forever. This story might shock you and entertain you for a few minutes - it may even be something you mull over for a few days - but it is my reality and it has shaped my entire life. Before weighing in your opinion, think about who can and will read it. I am forever grateful to the Lander community for supporting and loving me and my mom so fiercely.
I agree he should have been charged with at least involuntary manslaughter, or even reckless homicide, because he did not really look as good as he should have. I am so sorry for your loss.
Avery, you have been in my prayers since that dreadful tragedy occurred. I am very sorry for your loss. Jesus loves you and knows and sees everything. 🙏💝🙏
Avery I'm so sorry for this loss in your life. This incident must have shaped and molded you in many ways. I will pray for you and your mom for peace in your life. I will pray for your fathers spirit...and yes, your post has given me much to think of. 🙏 🙏
I’ll never forget when I was a kid (maybe 13-15 roughly) my friends and I used to frequent the bush. We live in the outer metro suburbs of Sydney, but in one direction our suburb basically backs onto vast bushland. Not terribly uncommon in many parts of sydney. Anyway, we were down there one day just walking and mucking around as us kids do. We often used to go for long walks, swim in the creek, and catch lizards. Anyway, one day we were on very steep section where it gets close to the river. My friend was up high on the embankment, and I was close to the “ground level” where the path was. My friend jokingly heaved off a MASSIVE boulder. I would guess it was about 40kg (100lbs). He deliberately aimed it a good 10metres (30ft to the right of me when he launched it. Well, due to the nature of the rocks shape and just the general landscape (uneven, rock and stone and trees etc) as it started accelerating at a huge speed, it tumbled into a point of a large rock, and immediately changed course and started coming straight at me as it was tumbling. My life flashed before my eyes as. The specific spot I was in I had no ability to quickly evade or move. the rock got airborne and was tracking straight at my upper body/head at one point. So I just sort of fell to my left. Anyway the rock tumbled and bounced back and forth like a pinball, and at the last minute it changed course yet again slightly and slammed my ankle! I was lucky that it was a bit more of a glancing blow than direct hit, as it would have shattered my leg to pieces. I just ended up with a huge gash, and some tissue damage. So I was limping for a week or so. Since that day, and seeing the sheer unpredictability of doing things like that, I have NEVER thrown big rocks or boulders, even if I can see the person and think I can avoid them. They don’t just travel like. A bowling ball Rowling down a lane. Very unpredictable. Never ever throw shit off a cliff or down an steep hill, it’s too risky.
Why? I would never assume that throwing a rock down a mountain into a lake would be dangerous. I would assume that climbing a mountain was dangerous though!
I mean I can understand why throwing rocks from the top of a climbing route or from a switchback trail should be common sense but you can't honestly tell me you've never thrown a rock off a cliff.... so you should be arrested? I think it's lawful but awful.
Share this story with others. Especially kids. We can make it's terrible tragedy into a valuable lesson to all about the need to be safe out in the wilderness or even your local woods & not to engage in any risky, unnecessary & potentially dangerous actions & behaviors especially when out in the wild. I remember as a kid we would throw rocks off the top of a steep ravine with a 250 ft drop and we would try to land the rocks into the creek off in the not too far distance. We only did it winter time so we could see the creek and see if anyone was coming but who knows? Some guy could've been wizzing down the trail on a mountain bike & then what would seem like long shot odds of occuring could have turned into a very tragic & foolish miscalculation. Be safe y'all.
@Flaccid Ego definitely especially with kids- I wasn't at all a badly behaved or impulsive kid, & I wasn't allowed to run wild by any means as a kid in the late 80-mid90s yet I shudder to think about an activity I took part in that's similar to what happened here- thank God we were too small to lift large rocks as we were 8 or 9yrs old- my friends & I went into the small area of woods by my home & threw cobble sized rocks- large pebbles really, down a ravine where a dozen school buses were parked in a semi circle, hoping to occasionally get lucky & get a window. We never saw anybody walking around down there & wouldn't stopped if we had, but thank goodness nothing serious happened.
@@flaccidego4291 not just the woods. Long story short, I accidentally managed to throw a metal rod over the roof of our 23 story apartment complex straight down to 2nd Avenue. I was 7 and we were playing a game on the roof of the building. 40 years later I still remember the sheer terror. By the grace of God, the rod did not hit anyone.
spending much time in my teens in steep mountains, i was always told to not throw or dislocate rocks, because somebody further down might get hit. naturally, i understand this, in the country where everything is bigger and better, this might be different.
I went hiking with a guy I'd just begun dating years ago, when he started rolling big rocks - boulders - down the hillside. That was a deal breaker for me because I was thinking of the wildlife that could be impacted, whether rabbits, deer, or even the lizards and rare banana slugs in the region (Santa Cruz Mts.). Why not just leave Nature as it is?
Mortified listening to this. The story is told so vividly that I can see it happening. Thank you for telling the story and giving Pete a chance to be known.
@@SkySpiral8 I don't think it's wrong to correct a misuse of a word, even in the informal context of YT comments. In fact, it can be a kindness. (Though I must admit, I think it's usually intended as an insult).
I admire Luke's sense of remorse and accountability. But that was a really dumb thing to do. I have hiked regularly in the CO mtns for many years, and I have never seen anyone do anything like that.
Well I am taking Dr. G at his word that it is "common" for rock climbers in that area to throw rocks off cliffs to see how far it goes or lands, etc. I am not a rock climber so I don't have first hand knowledge of this. If it is in fact a stupid thing for any rock climber to do regardless of elevation, then it likely a crime.
@@commonsense2680 Yeah but you're supposed to look before you throw. And we can't just take his word that he didn't know anyone was there and is remorseful. There needs to be some accountability.
Once at Devil's Lake State Park I had a verbal altercation with a man who was gonna throw a rock "into the lake" from the top of a bluff. It would have actually have landed on the crowded trail we just all hiked up. Finally a male bystander spoke up and told him that I was right.
So the guy would have ignored you but was willing to consider as possible the same warning because it came from a man. It's like we're still in 1955. 🙄
Any time you go into the mountain back country, you never toss a rock over a cliff. Besides the remote possibility of nailing a mountain climber, you are more likely to trigger a land slide or a rock stampede. Let mother nature be responsible for such acts, not man. In most national parks, this is a law. Park rangers who catch you tossing rocks over a cliff will fine you.
Man, I hope Luke gets a lot of therapy. I can't begin to imagine watching something you did cause a death with no way to stop it. I just can't imagine.
@@ProbablyOnLSD69 I still would have screamed ...even if I saw it after the incident. If he looked and couldn't fo anything,it wasn't a split second. Screaming doesn't guarantee that the incident would be prevented sonce it's possible something fatal could happen if he tried to escape.
luke was stupid. what he did was akin to shooting randomly into the forest without knowing who or what may be in it. plenty of hunters killed this way. sure, he may have "checked' first but obviously he didn't make certain. i have a very low tolerance for incompetence because it gets people killed.
In Ohio several teens pushed a massive tree log down over a cliff for fun they said. Log struck and killed a woman below. Each were charged and sentenced to 3 year in a juvenile facility.
Initially I thought Luke was blameless. Then I thought, have I, would I, ever throw a fifteen pound rock over a cliff? The answer is, of course not, it could hit someone or cause other rocks to fall.
This is extremely irresponsible and you shouldn't throw rocks a 10th of the size much less a 7 kilo one. I've seen people getting severely injured by small rock debris rolling down a mountain. This person must and should be convicted of involuntary manslaughter and serve a mandatory minimum sentence at the very least.
As a child I was repeatedly told "rocks don't have no eyes" so we were warned against throwing them. This case reminds of how important it is to consider the consequences of anything once they leave your control. Thank you Dr. Grande
I was climbing one weekend up a pretty sheer rock face. Weather was beautiful, and i had just gotten thru a 30 min push to my next anchor point. I heard a strange buzzing sound that went from faint to loud very quickly followed by a pop, and a very loud ringing noise. Then i felt a sharp pain in my right ear. I reached up and touched my ear and my hand and arm were covered in blood. The buzzing sound was a large rock rocketing straight down, the pop followed by the ringing was the rock ripping my right ear off of the side of my head. It was bleeding everywhere. If i had been even a half inch to the right it would've hit my head instead of the glancing blow to the side of my head. Rocks falling from height can reach terminal velocity in seconds, are are absolutely deadly. You should NEVER throw rocks off of anything you can't see the bottom of. If you can't see what's below you, always assume there could be someone down there. It only takes 1 to destroy 2 lives forever.
I totally get how Luke was conflicted by not having charges brought against him. My brother was killed in a car accident, his friend was driving and made a left turn in front of a vehicle doing like 60mph. Died instantly, but his friend survived. My family did not want criminal charges. This kid was only 16, it was an accident, and we felt like living with what happened was enough. He had his license suspended until he turned 18, when he went to have it reinstated he found out it never had been suspended. Even tho he did not drive during that time, he still felt like he didn't have any kind of consequences, and I think that made things even worse for him. I feel terrible for Pete's family, but I also feel so bad for Luke. Whether there were official consequences or not, I am sure this ruined his life. Hopefully not forever **Edit 8/21/24: just to clarify, charges weren't brought against the driver because he was not found criminally liable, it wasn't because my parents didn't want them - though before the investigation was finished they had talked with the DA about their wishes and that would have been taken into consideration if charges were pressed. In any case, the driver was found guilty only of negligence, which is not criminal in Minnesota. Death resulting from negligence is a civil issue, so my parents could have sued for wrongful death. To be criminal it would have had to be gross negligence - meaning the driver was disregarding the safety of others, under the influence, speeding, texting, ect.
The honest part is clouded since the "land slide specialist" was hiking with his family. A family that may not want to get involved in fleeing from a manslaughter case. Playing theater was the best option whether that theater was real or not, and ultimately it doesn't matter. Lets say that it was gravity. The same gravity that can kill people on the sidewalk when you throw an old piano from a balcony because you're too lazy to carry it down the stairs. The same gravity that kills oncoming traffic when you throw a 15 pound boulder onto the flow of random cars. You know. Just for fun.
If a person's criminal culpability is supposed to be determined by their intent at the time of the alleged crime along with the nature of their character... there are countless prior convictions that would need to be revamped immediately. This is why negligence and/or recklessness are the most important factors to be considered in a situation like this.
The standard isn't subjective in a case like this it's objective--was it reasonable under the circumstances to do what the perp did or was it negligent or reckless.
Negligence would be if there was a daycare somewhere below. Not empty space where there happens to be a couple knuckleheads on ropes in the middle of nothing.
This is why it’s so important for parents to teach their children wisdom. Life presents many opportunities daily for this. Always be vigilant in this effort, for your children’s sake and the sake of others.
I think it only is if the accidental killer goes to jail. Remorseless killer cases are extremely heartbreaking when the victim suffers a lot before dying. In this story, the death was instantaneous.
It’s not a new thing. There are four levels of criminal culpability: Premeditated with purpose (first degree murder), knowledge (second degree), negligence (third degree), and recklessness (manslaughter).
Such a brilliant, well thought out analysis, Dr. Grande! You measured everything in this tragic death and also an extremely remorseful person who caused it! Your level of thought you put into these cases is truly remarkable!! ♡♡
I worked at NOLS with Pete in the back country. He 'laid-into-me' one time because I forgot my helmet and climbed anyway. I thought it was a good lesson and appreciated Pete so much for all he had done for the climbing educational community. Also Pete took many many risks that I would have never dared to have done, as he was as bold as I thought one could get, however his brilliance was very well calculated by his ability level, years of experience and mind boggling confidence! Pete, while in this world, was a super super special climbing stud who could teach and guide as a professional master.
I love the fact that you have no annoying intro content and just jump right into the subject matter. People do not realize how annoying it is to see intro content over and over and over. So, kudos to you and great job! The commentary is always interesting and entertaining. Your work is appreciated!
A heavy rock thrown off the edge of a cliff without looking thoroughly is reckless and (in this case) deadly. I think Pete's family - now without a dad - should pursue a civil case that could award compensation for the suffering and loss they've experienced. It sounds like this could help Luke also to absolve some of his guilt.
My head was cracked open in 4th Grady when a kid there a palm sized rock at me. I’ve never seen so much blood. It was horrible and I was so scared. I can’t imagine being hit with a rock bigger than that.
Sentencing Luke to share his story and how it haunts him at his states middle and high schools would have been appropriate. They could have prepared Luke by having him work with the state's political speech writers who would have condensed truth, feelings, horror plus impact on family, friends and co-workers into a 45 minute talk.
Teachers should show this upload to their students where the subject is relevant, say in a health class. It's a valuable lesson for the young & could generate discussion as we have here in the comment section.
@@flaccidego4291 yeah because as a Florida native, where cliffs are nonexistent, we throw rocks all the time, but it's usually into a lake or water without people. More like skipping rocks I guess. But i can't say that if I went to a place with a cliff that I wouldn't throw a rock over to watch it go down to the bottom, of course not now, after watching this and it would've been more like a golf ball, not a bowling ball sized rock! Like that fact alone is really reckless and even as someone whose lived on flat ground their whole life, I would AT LEAST know better than to be hurling LARGE rocks down a cliff.
as a young teen, I would spend a summer vacation with my older brother in Colorado hiking. When I threw a rock off thr mountain, my brother lost it. He yelled about how such a thing could kill someone.
I'm struggling with the fact that they sat around all night by the fire while Pete was deceased on the cliff. They should've hiked out or contacted Molly immediately. Steve must've had a radio or a cell phone. I think that part creeps me out the most.
The group phoned 911 immediately they realised what had happened. I imagine they and stayed so they could see the first responders retrieve Pete's body. I would stay till I saw the body being removed from the cliff.
@@DottieMinerva I heard it as they didn't get help until they walked out in the morning but admittedly, I could have heard that incorrectly, so yes I would've waited also if I had already called
@@DottieMinerva I heard it as they didn't get help until they walked out in the morning but admittedly, I could have heard that incorrectly, so yes I would've waited also if I had already called
@@sbrooke210 You guys are both right with what was said in the video, so it was confusing. The video said Luke's group called 911 immediately. It also said the next morning they hiked out to get help.
One of the things taught to professional gun shooters, such as soldiers and police, is to know what is beyond the target. Having been a soldier, Luke should have paid attention to what was below on the cliff, since he was the one launching rocks. I was once in a similar situation, in Green River, Wyoming, where people above me on a cliff were trying to throw rocks into the same river I was fishing in. They did not respond to my shouts to stop, and the only way for me to leave was through the area they were hitting along the shore. Please don't throw rocks, especially when you can't or won't look where they will land.
Interesting point there about the military training. Luke's time in the military was given as one reason *not* to charge him. I don't know whether he should have faced charges, but that argument in particular doesn't sound right to me. What about being a soldier would make you less culpable for reckless behavior?
You sound like a very intelligent and healthy young man Avery. I am so sorry you lost your Dad. I lost my son in a shooting accident. Going on without my son has been difficult. Thank God you have so much love and support in your life. It shows.
I was hiking around Mount Blac with a group in 2015 when a mountain goat started a rock fall that shot through our group like a speeding car it was terrifying. As the only thing you can do is pray, and duck I took quite a while, calm the group down afterwards
When I was 8 years old We went to the Empire State building in New York for a 3rd grade class trip. My friends and I threw several pennies off the top floor. Our teacher caught us and said that we might have killed some people. I never forgot that and have lived over 50 years with a lot of guilt.
Dr. Grande - I like that the main picture features the victim now, with you in the top right corner. I look forward to watching your videos everyday. Keep up the great work!
I *love* knowing that, when I open RUclips in the morning, one (or more) of your videos will be waiting for me. I don’t know how you do it. Thank you for all your hard work!
I agree that Luke should have been criminally charged & sentenced to community service - for his sake, the family's sake, and to send a message to the community as well. Luke was not familiar with what was below that cliff top, yet he chose to throw a _bowling ball-sized_ piece of solid rock... there could have been a trail, a campsite or even unstable rocks that undermined the edge he was standing on, sending himself & friends into free-fall. He didn't toss a few pebbles first & work up to a big rock- he dropped the biggest one he could find. It's the very definition of reckless.
EXACTLY. So well said!!!! We aren’t even asking for prison time. But there MUST be consequences to send a MESSAGE. THINK, PEOPLE!!!! Common sense is literally a life saving skill we all need to work on.
I say in this case to let he/she who has not sinned cast the first stone (edit: no pun intended) I'm sure all of you, if u thought real long and hard enough about things you've done, especially in your youth, I'm sure u could find examples of risky behavior that could have resulted in something tragic. In fact, nearly everyone probably won't have to go back very far in ones past to find examples of your poor decisions possibly leading to a tragedy. Just think about maybe a risky driving manuever u did or a time u were late for work & speeding & following too closely to a driver who had to break suddenly. Or u just simply got careless and changed lanes too quickly & nearly caused an accident. My best friend is an insurance claims adjuster and she said 99% of car accidents are preventable. Someone is at fault. Even if you've never been at fault in an accident, I'm sure there's times when u were driving & got distracted & very well could've been. But do also take time to reflect on actions u did as a kid that were careless that could've caused tragedy. This is a case where we all should say, let the one who has never engaged in a careless or reckless action, in their ENTIRE life, cast the 1st stone.
@@flaccidego4291 blah blah blah, this must be Luke’s secret youtube account 😂 nobodys reading all that bs youre saying to excuse a grown man throwing a 15 lb rock over a cliff
Personally I think he should have been charged with negligent homicide. Wouldn’t have carried much of a sentence but would feel like some justice for an innocent man who lost his life. His actions were definitely negligent-at the very least.
Oh boy, as someone who used to teach scrambling to hikers, we taught our students NOT to throw rocks, and always use situational awareness in your surroundings. Mother Nature throws enough natural rocks, boulders, and releases shelves of rock and on occasion, entire sides of mountains can release! As a landslide survivor myself who has been fully buried under rock and dirt, taking two years to recover from those injuries, the last thing adventurers need out there are rocks flying into them from human hands. I've had to rescue people seriously injured by natural rock fall; many scenarios can be avoided, and honestly, unless you're skipping a small stone across a lake where you know there are no people in boats in your line of sight, it's never a good idea to throw anything over an edge, or into a blind area.
This one really stood out to me for whatever reason. Especially everything from 13:45 onward - some of your best writing IMO. Thanks for doing what you do ✌🏻
Reminds me of a dumb thing I did in college in 81. After several beers in the student union I was up on a balcony and spit off it aiming at a waste can below when without warning a female student below walked right into the path and it landed in her hair. In a drunken panic, I turned and ran. Of course I'm still embarrassed regretful when I think about it.
This is actually somewhat common, I've seen a similar event happen twice. Spitting off ledges is a bad idea. At least it won't kill someone like a rock will, but the spit always seems to find it's way to someone's head.
I remember guys at a college frat party throwing a beer keg off the balcony that demolished the hood of a car. I doubt they were ever convicted because how do you prove who actually did it?
Good evening Dr Grande, excellent analysis. I agree with you. Luke should be punished by what you said of cuminunuty service. But, no matter what Luke will the rest of his life remembering he took a life
I once spent a whole summer living in Sinks Canyon, at the Branson Geological field Lab...which is approximately ten miles from Lander, Wyoming. I was part of a 27 member group not counting the several field instructors...but I don't recall anyone attempting to throw rocks during the any of the daily hikes through the Wind River mountain range during daily mapping exercises. Some of the topography was so steep and dangerous, that we had to be ready and make sure to yell "Rock" if there was a loosened rock falling, in order to warn the people climbing up from below. We occasionally run across other hikers in much smaller groups without being aware of their presence until we nearly bumped into them. It would just make common sense not to throw rocks in those types of areas, whether you see folks or not.
That's strange how Luke was in the military and had seemingly a bunch of life experience, but he was still throwing rocks. That's one of the first things that we were taught as kids, never ever throw rocks anywhere near cliffs.. not only rock climbers could be killed, but people fishing, people swimming, people on the bottom of the cliff... just not a good habit to get used to doing.. I guess Luke learned the hard way.
Yeah there are a number of stories like this out there. The probability of hitting someone is extremely low, but when you have millions of people, it's going to happen a few times.
But... he looked over the cliff first to make sure it was safe! I'm not sure what to call this... It's where people have a clue that their actions aren't the safest, so they add a safety feature or two so they can feel good about going ahead with their unsafe actions. "Ha! I just bought $5,000 of illegal fireworks. What a blast! Now I've got my bucket of water here in case one of these bombs misfires!" Never mind the fact that one of those skyrockets could fly sideways and shoot through any one of your neighbors' windows within 100 feet.
Rock throwing & trundling are actually very common amongst rock climbers. Pete's friend, who was with him that day, even said: "It's called trundling. We all do it. Pete has thrown many rocks down the cliff side to watch it fall. Although he looks more carefully to make sure no one is there. At the memorial, about a dozen other climbers were there & I asked them, "whoever hasn't ever thrown a rock off a cliff please raise your hand"- and nobody raised their hand."
@@flaccidego4291 This day and age with the mentality of most people, I wouldn't encourage throwing rocks off of cliffs to see them fall, especially if I were a rock climber, going to a funeral of a friend hit by a rock. Can you imagine, in this day of social media, spreading to all of the kids, "It's ok to throw rocks off of cliffs near rock climbers, as long as you think you can't see any..."
I am familiar with Wyoming as I used to live there. I can understand them not prosecuting. Once you see how vast areas like that are in Wyoming you understand how a person wouldn't suspect anybody below them and it was safe to throw a rock. It's not like the city. It's a sparsely populated state, a wild place with miles and miles of no human activity.
I did a lot of climbing throughout the 1980s and never wore a helmet. One thing Luke could have done is yell, "ROCK!" He probably didn't think to do so but it could have saved Pete's life. Climbers above me have dislodged large rocks and the only warning was them yelling "ROCK! ROCK!" in time for us to look up, make a quick assessment and intuitively dodge the deadly projectile in a split second.
@@Force9Gale-dt4rh - We always yelled "ROCK!" for any falling object - a rock, rocks, dirt, tree limb, flying squirrels, a falling climber, etc. It's a bit like people in cities yelling "FIRE!" when they're being raped or robbed because most people wouldn't get involved and call the police if they didn't also need help. If someone yelled "BELOW" when I was climbing, I'd think, "Below what?" We had standard rock climbing communications. "ON BELAY" "BELAY ON" "CLIMBING" "CLIMB" it's difficult to communicate while climbing so it makes sense to have standard distinct signals. I thought "ROCK!" was one of those international standards, but I did hear people yell "BELOW!" and was able to discern the meaning, but only because I'd already seen and heard the falling rock.
I worked for NOLS for some years and lived down in Lander. Moved up to Teton County a few years before this. The geology of the Lander area, and the fact that the climate there is relatively mild for Wyoming, makes it a popular place for rock climbing- I spent a lot of time climbing cliffs around there, where the tops of the cliffs were accessible to hikers. The Stough Creek Basin where Leg Lake is located is a popular climbing, and hiking, destination. It is relatively easy to access in the summer. It is by no means a remote wilderness. There are people around. This was not the one-in-a-billion chance you seem to think. The cliff area involved was a known climbing area. The moron who threw the rock was, as you say, not held accountable. It's clear that the fact that he served in Iraq was a factor in this- the County prosecutor was looking for any excuse to avoid charging this idiot. I'm a long time mountaineer- contrary to what you seem to think we don't toss rocks in popular climbing venues. Molly Absolon lost her husband, and was left to raise her daughter, who lost her father. As you indicate she moved up to Teton Valley, Idaho. She is still active in the outdoor community, and writes an outdoor column for a local newspaper. Prosecution would have served two useful purposes: First, it would have served to put other idiots on notice that tossing rocks willy-nilly might have legal penalties attached. It would have served a societal good in that respect. Second, it would have reinforced a civil claim for the family.
1000% agree. I can appreciate the rationale behind not wanting to prosecute but since when is remorse and a lack of intent enough to get someone off on being charged in a clear case of reckless, negligent homicide? Luke’s actions, harmless as he may have intended them to be, demonstrated a careless disregard for human life, and I fail to see how letting him off without so much as a slap on the wrist is any different than declining to bring charges against a drunk driver who kills someone in a car accident. I’m sure the driver didn’t mean to kill anyone either, and u could even make the case that they were less culpable due to their impairment bc they weren’t fully cognizant of the implications of getting behind the wheel in their state, whereas Luke, who I assume was sober, had to know how dangerous it would be to hurl a freaking boulder off a rock climbing cliff… And yet he did it anyway. What’s his excuse?? I get wanting to avoid retribution for retribution’s sake, but there if there’s no consistency and no accountability there’s no justice, and with his decision not to pursue justice in this case, the prosecutor showed more consideration, compassion and sympathy to the perpetrator than to either his victim or his victim’s family, and imo that is truly shameful.
I worked at NOLS with Pete in the back country. He 'laid-into-me' one time because I forgot my helmet and climbed anyway. I thought it was a good lesson and appreciated Pete so much for all he had done for the climbing educational community. Also Pete took many many risks that I would have never dared to have done, as he was as bold as I thought one could get, however his brilliance was very well calculated by his ability level, years of experience and mind boggling confidence! Pete, while in this world, was a super super special climbing stud who could teach and guide as a professional master.
Throwing large rocks from cliffs is frighteningly frequent. There should be consequences, if not for the perpetrator, then to set a precedent for others to be aware of. Much of the law has a duality, to punish for a crime and to set a deterrent for others. I would call this "third degree involuntary manslaughter", although I'm not a law expert. I was a rock climber years ago and always worried that some imbecile could throw a large rock down if they chose to.
@@stevedriscoll2539No its not. Driving drunk is illegal. Throwing rocks in its self isn't illegal. Its actually hard to prove he was knowingly reckless if he didn't know people were in that area.
What a tragic situation. I agree with you. Luke will have to live with this for the rest of his life, which will not be easy. Awesome (As Usual) Analysis! Thanks Dr. Grande.
There’s a reason we were told at summer camp, “Don’t chunk rocks.” As a hiker and climber, it’s pretty basic common sense that other people are out there. Even out in the Wind River Range, it’s a widely-known recreation location. Many more people are further out in the backcountry of many states since the pandemic. Would it be ok to drive recklessly as long as you can see down the stretch of road you will be on?
Love my nightly portion of the Doc! Its always the last thing I watch before going to bed, dont know what I'd do without him! I need my hit of true crime and psychological analysis every day!
I once accidentally precipitated a small rock during my descent after climbing Mt. Lomnicky Stit in the Slovak part of Tatras. The sheer overwhelming powerlessness of watching the rock fall and barely miss some climber below me was a gut-wrenching experience. I could definitely see from his party's face expressions that they were not very happy to say the least. But that only happened because the terrain was naturally very eroded and the rock face was full of smaller and bigger loose rocks, so it wasn't always avoidable. BTW the rock was only the size of a chicken egg, tops, but people have no idea how crazily fast even the tiniest rock accelerates after just a mere 100 feet (or a few bounce-offs) down the rockface, almost like a bullet speed (not to mention it can knock off other, bigger rocks along the way). Even though nothing happened I remember being haunted by the dreadful feeling of having potentially had killed somebody, as if I actually did kill someone, for a good while. I can't even imagine what this guy Luke must have felt (since clearly he did have a conscience after all), knowing he actually killed an innocent human being with his recklesness, throwing a boulder the size of a head, that... ultimately smashed someones head to pieces.
Just what I needed right now, packing to move house and county, new job and life and I'm a horder with adhd that needs Dr Grandes voice in the background while I pack 😀
I too am a victim of something like this, only I was 3 years old. I only know the rock thrower was an eight-year-old boy. Like you say, everyone throws rocks. I've lived my life with the smashed hand injuries from that event. I wasn't killed, but the injuries were and have been limiting. Nothing was ever said, one way or another, by anyone. Not a single apology. Life is a batch, then you die.
One New Year's, my friends convinced me to go climb this local hill. When we got there, in our party clothes, we saw a man descending with a significant amount of ice climbing gear. I really wonder what he must have thought. We all made it up and down safely, but there were some chapped asses sliding down the slope to beat the dusk.
Hello my dear friend, sorry about your mum, I'm sending love and lots of hugs to you both. Noah not dealing with his sisters death, poor baby was forgotten when we were grieving 😢💔💔💔
What a tragic story! People need to think before they throw heavy objects. This really hits home. (no pun intended) Just today I heard a heavy object hit the side of my home. I went outside to investigate and saw four teenage boys in a neighbors backyard standing behind a high chain link fence. I live below them. I noticed there was a large coffee mug that read "I love you" on it and I realized it was what was thrown. It just missed a large pot I have sitting by my front door and just missed a window in my living room. If the cup had broken the window it would have also broken some pricey one-of-a-kind art and collectables. If I had been sitting in the area it could have hit me in the head and I would have been cut by flying glass. So now I'm in a quandary. Do I say nothing and discard the mug? Or do I send a polite note to the parents and risk their wrath? Another neighbor told their dog to be quiet and she went ballistic and said, "No one tells my dog to shut up." I can only imagine how defensive she could get over her son. I'm not sure what to do, and she may want her mug back since it didn't break, lol, but the rock thrower in this case was extremely careless and irresponsible regardless of his remorse. A man died. Sorry doesn't cut it.
Here's a note for you... "I was kidnapped from the kitchen by four teenage boys, one threw me over the fence and I narrowly avoided a career ending injury. Lucky a kind lady picked me up, wrote my story, and returned me to the warm embrace and soft lips of the family I love".
Those kid's will grow up to be the type to throw rock's off of cliff's when their adults because their parents never taught them boundaries. I think you should tell the mother what the son did even if she doesn't like hearing it
@@williamsherman1089 I tend to agree with you. I appreciate your input very much because I wasn't certain what I should do. No real harm was done but it could have been bad, besides, she may want her mug back:-)
I'm not forming a good impression of your neighborhood. Chain link fences, boys throwing things at houses, parents of boys not being conscientious neighbors. Maybe I have it wrong, but that's the mental image.
Watching this story reminded me of an accident that happened in the mountains of Colorado in the summer of 1987. Road construction crews were doing maintenance on a road and an earthmover accidentally dislodged a boulder that went rolling down the hillside and hit a Gray Line tour bus, killing 7 passengers. If I remember correctly, the operator of the earthmover was charged with involuntary manslaughter.
Ever been in a prison Doc? It's plain stupid to send this guy there where his life would be in danger. REALITY: Courts and prisons are clogged up enough. This was a tragic mistake. That guy is paying the price now as he has a conscience.
Less dangerous than grown man randomly deciding to start throwing 20 pound rocks over a climbing path? How is that even entertaining? I don't really see this being a "mistake" or "accident" its a pointless dumb activity that got someone killed. Regardless of intent the pure lack of logic deserves punishment.
He didn't say he should go to prison. Although I think he should, since he's a selfish asshole for throwing a 20lb boulder where people hike. By the way, whether or not he has a CONSCIENCE is irrelevant. Him claiming to feel bad doesn't bring back the innocent man he so selfishly killed for no reason. I would NEVER do something like that and neither would most people, since most people can't stand the thought of potentially harming someone or something. He's a selfish dick, plain and simple.
That's what I just commented. It's obvious the Dr. hasn't been prosecuted or in a jail/prison. It and having a record wouldn't benefit this kid or society.
@@SRNF you really think that this guy is a danger to society, that he should be put away for what he didn’t intentionally do? 2 peoples lives got destroyed in that situation, and you want to destroy one persons life even more? people should not be punished for making stupid mistakes.
Teens throwing boulder rocks down a hill for fun almost killed me ! They were surprised to see me arrive at the top . If they all had killed me it would have surprised them .
I consider myself a pretty experienced outdoors person and I have never heard a rule not to throw rocks off a cliff. Of course it makes total sense, I'm just surprised I haven't heard of it. I'm very glad that my awareness has now been raised because in reading through the comments it's apparently very common. That is BAD. Even small rocks could severely injure somebody if they are looking up at the wrong time. With so many people in the outdoors, there should be laws against throwing rocks off cliffs (or anything else for that matter, all garbage should be packed out), and parks should have this posted as a rule on the signs at trailheads, with a note about criminal and civil penalties. The perpetrator should have at least been charged with manslaughter. The points about leaving mother nature alone are well taken.
Imagine the horror of discovering that a thoughtless lark had resulted in the death of a stranger. I believe that most people are basically good hearted. Luke's honesty in the face of the dire consequences of his actions go a long way to exculpate him of any ill intent. I suspect that Luke himself has carried the remorse and guilt with him every day since Pete died. I realize that does absolutely nothing to soothe Pete's surviving loved ones. I also agree that Luke himself may have been better served by some acknowledgement of his wrongdoing, and some community service to atone for it. The best outcome would have been giving Luke the task of coming up with a public talk about the danger of throwing rocks off mountainsides, and to present that talk to schools and community centers, etc...hopefully preventing a similar event from ocurring again.
I like Dr. Grandes idea that Luke may have benefitted from some form of prosecution. Also it could have given some closure to Pete's family. I think it probably affected Luke deeply and he wont get over it easily. Sad day.
Maybe this case is a little like the grandfather who held his grandson out of a high window on a cruise ship and the boy slipped and died. In a foreign court the man was offered a deal for a guilty plea to involuntary manslaughter/reckless homicide in exchange for no jail time and a small fine---but it was on the record and the public acknowledgment of responsibility. Dr. Grande wasn't advocating jail time, just official acceptance a reckless mistake. Also a good basis for civil recovery by Pete's family.
Luke was not a child but a man and a veteran at that so he had been taught proper armament care and training. Yes Doctor this should have been appropriately prosecuted. Becoming a speaker to high school youth assembly's would have been appropriate. I'm 70 now and I can still recall a couple of heart felt speakers we had at our high school who had a great deal of impact on my a bit of a wild child. That would have gone a long way to help the rock thrower and the victims wife heal.
Been hiking many times in my youth and never threw so much as a pebble I think these guys were looking to create a situation Why would any normal person do such a thing He was throwing a bowling ball NO respect for others and no respect for nature and he was not even punished???
@@pn1831 Exactly! I commented this as well. Do people not care that hurling large rocks down a mountain might also injure or kill wildlife? Totally careless act.
I was a climber for many years. On one solo ice climb, a party moved across and over me, a few hundred feet above. The nature of the ice that day caused them to start dropping dinner plate size pieces of ice. Any one of them could have easily killed me. Fortunately, I was able to quickly climb to a small impresion in the cliff face. I huddled there for over an hour as ice blocks pounded the slight overhand just above my head, spraying me with ice shards. Finally, as quickly as the crisis started, it was over. Cold and shaken, I continued my climb glad to have survived. As climbers, we know the risk we take, especially climbing around other humans.
Agreed. Kinda lame the 2nd climbers redacted his forgiveness statement. He should know it was their risk they were taking by standing underneath a fuckin cliff while mountain climbing. Nothing safe about any of that. Can't be negligent to throw the rock when the invisible mountain climbers below had no reasonable expectation of safety anyway. That's like saying it would he a drivers fault if a skydiver randomly landed in front of their moving car while maybe they were speeding 10mph over. Regardless of the drivers speed, sky divers and mountain climbers don't have reasonable expectations of safety while doing dangerous shit that no one else could expect or be aware of. I've climbed up on A LOT of cliffs in my day and never seen anyone below standing around. No one can expect some people are gonna be in the shittiest places way out in the forest
The author Laurenz van der Post, South African mentor of the young Charles lll, had something to say about defiling pristine places with human idly imposed disturbances. Venture to the Interior (1951) gives a wonderful insight into how best to move respectfully in untouched nature.
This isn't too different from the case with Alec Baldwin... In 4th grade at recess, I threw a badminton racquet into the air as hard as I could after missing a volley. The competing team was being mean and obnoxious, so I was furious about getting out. Unfortunately, that racquet was subject to gravity and came down on some poor 3rd grader's head. The playground teacher found me and demanded to know if I had done that to him. Nine-year-old me was mortified. To this day I feel horrible about that incident. Worse, to save face, I lied and said it had slipped out of my hand. Respect for this kid who admitted his terrible mistake. I can't imagine living with something like that.
It’s hard for me to consider Luke’s actions criminal. But at the end, his careles actions put an end to the life of a living soul. Luke’s going to need lots of therapy.
We were at Royal Gorge Bridge in CO and some kids were chucking rocks over the edge…my wife and I laid into them hard to the bewilderment of their parents watching the whole thing…
Well done presentation. Often we do things like throwing rocks or some other reckless behavior, having an affair, without a thought of consequences to our actions. Luke reminds me of a tortured character from one of Shakespeare tragic plays. He now carries his guilt around sentence to life now.
I’ve lived in the Sierra Nevada Mountains for 40 years, raised two children and now three grandchildren. I just recently taught my grandson that you don’t even throw stones over a cliff for this reason. In this day and age there are people everywhere you go, have respect, safety first. Just like my children, my grandson was six when he learned, you don’t throw rocks over cliffs for this very reason. His parents are irresponsible and responsible for this tragedy. RIP
I live out in the woods with a creek on my property. I have no boys of my own. I have never seen my daughters throw rocks in the creek as an activity. But when boys have come to visit, as soon as they get close to the creek they are looking for a rock to throw in.
When my 2 daughters were in high school and college, I was always flabbergasted by what their male friends were up to! I was not accustomed to shenanigans that resulted in criminal charges or broken bones. The boys also flung me into the pool with my clothes in…not long after having neck surgery..
i once threw a rock down a mountain slope, trying to cause a rockslide, and an unseen guy yelled up and asked "what the hell are you doing?". that scared the hell out me and i still feel shame whenever i think of that. no one got hurt, but there was the potential because that guy was hidden somehow and i never saw him when or after. thank God i got through my teens without killing anyone
people forget how intensely thoughtless and stupid they were as kids and teens. i honestly think we're all lucky we didn't kill someone in our youth. thankfully most of us grow up and think about things before we act.
I feel the exact same way.
@@horseheadkid
Thanks , luck is paramount and part of the risk of maturing or not . See Evolution.
Appologies , When I was 5 years old , our little gang used to enjoy breaking out windows of old derelic industrial buildings along the water . Once we thru stones through windows of an abandoned steel fabrication plant behind our house . Shortly after the stones came back after us from the other side . The spirits were very angry . We ran ! 😮
I know that exact feeling…
When I was 14 I was at camp and skateboarding back into the cabin with my headphones on and the rest of the kids were planning to drop a cinder block on a firework on the ground to make it go off from the balcony. They didn’t see me, I didn’t see them and when it landed right behind me and I looked back I’ll never forget their faces. What a terrible feeling. A split second and you wouldn’t have to read my dumb comment.
I’m glad I could read your dumb comment ❤ glad you’re here
@@HeatherHolt same here
Dumb kids, LOL!
Here's another lesson. Don't wear headphones or ear buds while running, hiking or riding around on anything anytime in public or when around large groups of people. One must be aware of their surroundings & that means not just visually, but auditorily as well. There's been plenty of joggers & riders and even just walkers whio were injured or killed by cars because they didn't hear anything coming. Just recently wear I live, a woman was just simply walking through a woods trail and killed by a falling branch. Other walkers found her. She was wearing earbuds. If she had been completely alert, she would've heard the branch break off and given herself a chance to get cover or move out of the way. In fact, if she simply stopped walking upon hearing the branch creak & break, she might have not walked into it's path of fall.
So even in what seems like the calm serenity of the wild, one must keep their eyes and ears peeled at ALL times.
My mother nearly ran me over when she accidentally stomped the gas pedal to back out of the driveway. I was standing at the foot of the driveway just slightly off to the side
The car came so close to me that outside mirror grazed my arm!
It's amazing how many potentially deadly encounters we all face in a lifetime.
Usually, there's no harm
done.
It's still scary, though
I’m Avery, and this story is about my dad. I hadn’t heard this video existed until a stumbled upon it today. It is always a bit surprising to me that something like this can get posted without me having any knowledge of it… I believe Dr. Grande gave a thoughtful analysis but I don’t quite see what is so rare about a remorseful killer. There’s a reason involuntary manslaughter charges exist. Anyway, please remember when you are commenting that this isn’t just a crazy, what-are-the-odds story to analyze. We are real people living real lives just like you. I lost my dad when I was 7 and I think about him and miss him everyday, despite not having many memories of him. It’s true I’ve read that Luke was very remorseful, but I’ve always wanted a direct apology from him and I don’t think I’ll ever get one. He made a stupid, wreckless decision that resulted in me losing my dad forever. This story might shock you and entertain you for a few minutes - it may even be something you mull over for a few days - but it is my reality and it has shaped my entire life. Before weighing in your opinion, think about who can and will read it. I am forever grateful to the Lander community for supporting and loving me and my mom so fiercely.
❤😢🙏
I agree he should have been charged with at least involuntary manslaughter, or even reckless homicide, because he did not really look as good as he should have. I am so sorry for your loss.
Im disgusted with the police not charging him???? Every choice we make has consequences that affect everything.
Avery, you have been in my prayers since that dreadful tragedy occurred.
I am very sorry for your loss.
Jesus loves you and knows and sees everything.
🙏💝🙏
Avery I'm so sorry for this loss in your life. This incident must have shaped and molded you in many ways. I will pray for you and your mom for peace in your life. I will pray for your fathers spirit...and yes, your post has given me much to think of. 🙏 🙏
I was taught as a child to never throw rocks down a mountain or over a cliff when hiking because you never know who might be below you.
Same here.
I think parents stopped teaching their children anything other than how to be good little consumers.
Same, I agree, I was in the cubs and Scouts when I was little and those sort of sensible rules were drilled into us.
Exactly, he is such a stupid person
Gold star for your parents
I’ll never forget when I was a kid (maybe 13-15 roughly) my friends and I used to frequent the bush. We live in the outer metro suburbs of Sydney, but in one direction our suburb basically backs onto vast bushland. Not terribly uncommon in many parts of sydney. Anyway, we were down there one day just walking and mucking around as us kids do. We often used to go for long walks, swim in the creek, and catch lizards. Anyway, one day we were on very steep section where it gets close to the river. My friend was up high on the embankment, and I was close to the “ground level” where the path was. My friend jokingly heaved off a MASSIVE boulder. I would guess it was about 40kg (100lbs). He deliberately aimed it a good 10metres (30ft to the right of me when he launched it. Well, due to the nature of the rocks shape and just the general landscape (uneven, rock and stone and trees etc) as it started accelerating at a huge speed, it tumbled into a point of a large rock, and immediately changed course and started coming straight at me as it was tumbling. My life flashed before my eyes as. The specific spot I was in I had no ability to quickly evade or move. the rock got airborne and was tracking straight at my upper body/head at one point. So I just sort of fell to my left. Anyway the rock tumbled and bounced back and forth like a pinball, and at the last minute it changed course yet again slightly and slammed my ankle! I was lucky that it was a bit more of a glancing blow than direct hit, as it would have shattered my leg to pieces. I just ended up with a huge gash, and some tissue damage. So I was limping for a week or so.
Since that day, and seeing the sheer unpredictability of doing things like that, I have NEVER thrown big rocks or boulders, even if I can see the person and think I can avoid them. They don’t just travel like. A bowling ball Rowling down a lane. Very unpredictable. Never ever throw shit off a cliff or down an steep hill, it’s too risky.
I'm coming from the European Alps. Here it is an absolute no-go to throw any rocks off any cliffs at any location. This should be common sense!
Especially a 15 pound boulder.
and illegal!
Why? I would never assume that throwing a rock down a mountain into a lake would be dangerous. I would assume that climbing a mountain was dangerous though!
I mean I can understand why throwing rocks from the top of a climbing route or from a switchback trail should be common sense but you can't honestly tell me you've never thrown a rock off a cliff.... so you should be arrested? I think it's lawful but awful.
Here too, in Canada. Some international tourists here were cautioned in the Rockies as they threw rocks that just about hit hikers below. I
This may be the first Dr Grande video where the perp immediately confessed, accepted responsibility, and was genuinely remorseful.
I'd be, too. Rock throw has 90% accuracy and 50 base power, so he likely wasn't expecting to get a critical and OHKO the climber.
Share this story with others. Especially kids. We can make it's terrible tragedy into a valuable lesson to all about the need to be safe out in the wilderness or even your local woods & not to engage in any risky, unnecessary & potentially dangerous actions & behaviors especially when out in the wild.
I remember as a kid we would throw rocks off the top of a steep ravine with a 250 ft drop and we would try to land the rocks into the creek off in the not too far distance. We only did it winter time so we could see the creek and see if anyone was coming but who knows? Some guy could've been wizzing down the trail on a mountain bike & then what would seem like long shot odds of occuring could have turned into a very tragic & foolish miscalculation. Be safe y'all.
@Flaccid Ego definitely especially with kids- I wasn't at all a badly behaved or impulsive kid, & I wasn't allowed to run wild by any means as a kid in the late 80-mid90s yet I shudder to think about an activity I took part in that's similar to what happened here- thank God we were too small to lift large rocks as we were 8 or 9yrs old- my friends & I went into the small area of woods by my home & threw cobble sized rocks- large pebbles really, down a ravine where a dozen school buses were parked in a semi circle, hoping to occasionally get lucky & get a window. We never saw anybody walking around down there & wouldn't stopped if we had, but thank goodness nothing serious happened.
@@flaccidego4291 not just the woods. Long story short, I accidentally managed to throw a metal rod over the roof of our 23 story apartment complex straight down to 2nd Avenue. I was 7 and we were playing a game on the roof of the building. 40 years later I still remember the sheer terror. By the grace of God, the rod did not hit anyone.
Thinking back in my life how many times I threw rocks off of cliffs 🥺
He wasn't throwing a small rock, he heaved a small boulder over the edge. I completely agree with your analysis.
spending much time in my teens in steep mountains, i was always told to not throw or dislocate rocks, because
somebody further down might get hit.
naturally, i understand this, in the country where everything is bigger and better, this might be different.
@@ursodermatt8809 I learned this in the USA as well.
@@ursodermatt8809 Yes, it's fairly common sense if you're over the age of 12.
Sadly, being stupid isn't illegal.
I went hiking with a guy I'd just begun dating years ago, when he started rolling big rocks - boulders - down the hillside. That was a deal breaker for me because I was thinking of the wildlife that could be impacted, whether rabbits, deer, or even the lizards and rare banana slugs in the region (Santa Cruz Mts.). Why not just leave Nature as it is?
I love hiking in the mountains. The first rule I was taught is: DON'T THROW ROCKS DOWN THE MOUNTAIN. A simple rule that can save lives.
One of Dr. Grande's best! Also, I am glad he refrained from some of his usual humor as this case did not deserve it.
Mortified listening to this. The story is told so vividly that I can see it happening. Thank you for telling the story and giving Pete a chance to be known.
“Mortified” means “extremely embarrassed.”
@@SkySpiral8 What must it be like for a person to cover the internet for people who use words in a way that you do not think they should.
@@sweeabn6736 Just a lifelong learner appreciating learning new things-and wrongly assuming others are too
@@SkySpiral8 I don't think it's wrong to correct a misuse of a word, even in the informal context of YT comments. In fact, it can be a kindness. (Though I must admit, I think it's usually intended as an insult).
@@MeganVictoriaKearns thank you. If I had meant to insult I would’ve made that a lot more clear, ha ha.
I admire Luke's sense of remorse and accountability. But that was a really dumb thing to do. I have hiked regularly in the CO mtns for many years, and I have never seen anyone do anything like that.
Well I am taking Dr. G at his word that it is "common" for rock climbers in that area to throw rocks off cliffs to see how far it goes or lands, etc. I am not a rock climber so I don't have first hand knowledge of this. If it is in fact a stupid thing for any rock climber to do regardless of elevation, then it likely a crime.
Should have been charged though. Accident or not, there has to be justice for the poor man he killed. It's not fair to walk away from that.
@@commonsense2680 Yeah but you're supposed to look before you throw. And we can't just take his word that he didn't know anyone was there and is remorseful. There needs to be some accountability.
@@commonsense2680 I was thinking a small rock might seem normal to throw but did he say a 25 lb rock?
That's my thought too. It is totally normal to throw a rock here and there. But huge rocks? I think not so much.
Who throws rocks on hikes, it's reckless, you can start avalanches, etc. He got off easy. Thank you always, Dr. Grande.
I agree with this. It’s very irresponsible.
Do you file down the edges on your spoons?
nyyyrs, ohoho.
Like you I also enjoy a comical jab at the absurdity of life
LMAO, no you can't
@SPLΔSIVΞ so it’s normal to throw rocks because Yosemite have signs saying please do not throw rocks it’s extremely dangerous. Gotcha.
I wouldn't say he got off easy. The guilt will follow him to the grave.
Once at Devil's Lake State Park I had a verbal altercation with a man who was gonna throw a rock "into the lake" from the top of a bluff. It would have actually have landed on the crowded trail we just all hiked up. Finally a male bystander spoke up and told him that I was right.
Good for that bystander. Many times people don't anna get involved.
So the guy would have ignored you but was willing to consider as possible the same warning because it came from a man.
It's like we're still in 1955. 🙄
@@Temulon You got his point the wrong way.
@@Temulon She should have just stuck to making sandwiches for the group and let the men make the rock throwing decisions.
@@HowieHoward-ti3dx I believe you're mistaken.
Any time you go into the mountain back country, you never toss a rock over a cliff. Besides the remote possibility of nailing a mountain climber, you are more likely to trigger a land slide or a rock stampede. Let mother nature be responsible for such acts, not man. In most national parks, this is a law. Park rangers who catch you tossing rocks over a cliff will fine you.
Man, I hope Luke gets a lot of therapy. I can't begin to imagine watching something you did cause a death with no way to stop it. I just can't imagine.
I would have screamed and hope that they somehow move. No way, I would have watched in silence!
@@ProbablyOnLSD69 I still would have screamed ...even if I saw it after the incident. If he looked and couldn't fo anything,it wasn't a split second. Screaming doesn't guarantee that the incident would be prevented sonce it's possible something fatal could happen if he tried to escape.
luke was stupid. what he did was akin to shooting randomly into the forest without knowing who or what may be in it. plenty of hunters killed this way. sure, he may have "checked' first but obviously he didn't make certain. i have a very low tolerance for incompetence because it gets people killed.
I need to watch this again in the morning. I like Outside magazine. So sad.
@twincherry4958 yes, of course, and if you were in one of the 9/11 planes you would have saved the day, wouldn't you?
In Ohio several teens pushed a massive tree log down over a cliff for fun they said. Log struck and killed a woman below. Each were charged and sentenced to 3 year in a juvenile facility.
3 years? That ain't shit 3 years for gross, possibly criminal negligence. And resulted in a death? Teens are lucky as hell the judge was lenient
IIRC the kids didn't tell anyone and had to be tracked down by the police and witnesses. That's a big difference.
@@ProbablyOnLSD69 It killed the woman and the kids ran away and didn't tell anyone what they did. The police tracked them down later.
@@ProbablyOnLSD69 you read?😂
@@ProbablyOnLSD69 they said it killed a women.
Initially I thought Luke was blameless.
Then I thought, have I, would I, ever throw a fifteen pound rock over a cliff?
The answer is, of course not, it could hit someone or cause other rocks to fall.
P.S. Abolish the time change!
@@powlperc😂
This is extremely irresponsible and you shouldn't throw rocks a 10th of the size much less a 7 kilo one.
I've seen people getting severely injured by small rock debris rolling down a mountain. This person must and should be convicted of involuntary manslaughter and serve a mandatory minimum sentence at the very least.
@@juantonio0788 uh did you not listen? It was decided not to prosecute....
Extremely sad ..?I don't think it was a criminal act..terrible accident...
As a child I was repeatedly told "rocks don't have no eyes" so we were warned against throwing them. This case reminds of how important it is to consider the consequences of anything once they leave your control. Thank you Dr. Grande
I was climbing one weekend up a pretty sheer rock face. Weather was beautiful, and i had just gotten thru a 30 min push to my next anchor point. I heard a strange buzzing sound that went from faint to loud very quickly followed by a pop, and a very loud ringing noise. Then i felt a sharp pain in my right ear. I reached up and touched my ear and my hand and arm were covered in blood. The buzzing sound was a large rock rocketing straight down, the pop followed by the ringing was the rock ripping my right ear off of the side of my head. It was bleeding everywhere. If i had been even a half inch to the right it would've hit my head instead of the glancing blow to the side of my head. Rocks falling from height can reach terminal velocity in seconds, are are absolutely deadly. You should NEVER throw rocks off of anything you can't see the bottom of. If you can't see what's below you, always assume there could be someone down there. It only takes 1 to destroy 2 lives forever.
I totally get how Luke was conflicted by not having charges brought against him. My brother was killed in a car accident, his friend was driving and made a left turn in front of a vehicle doing like 60mph. Died instantly, but his friend survived. My family did not want criminal charges. This kid was only 16, it was an accident, and we felt like living with what happened was enough. He had his license suspended until he turned 18, when he went to have it reinstated he found out it never had been suspended. Even tho he did not drive during that time, he still felt like he didn't have any kind of consequences, and I think that made things even worse for him. I feel terrible for Pete's family, but I also feel so bad for Luke. Whether there were official consequences or not, I am sure this ruined his life. Hopefully not forever
**Edit 8/21/24: just to clarify, charges weren't brought against the driver because he was not found criminally liable, it wasn't because my parents didn't want them - though before the investigation was finished they had talked with the DA about their wishes and that would have been taken into consideration if charges were pressed. In any case, the driver was found guilty only of negligence, which is not criminal in Minnesota. Death resulting from negligence is a civil issue, so my parents could have sued for wrongful death. To be criminal it would have had to be gross negligence - meaning the driver was disregarding the safety of others, under the influence, speeding, texting, ect.
But you should receive insurance money for the death of your brother from the auto insurance company of his friend.
@@LaniLanilei -- Are u related to Alex Murdaugh?
@@flaccidego4291
Why do you ask?
@Rita Rita oh yes my parents did get an insurance payout from the driver's insurance. We just didn't want criminal charges to be brought up.
Oh the insurance angle. Murdaugh murdered people for monetary gain.
Good morning, Dr. Grande!
Well, this was an unusual case.
You've finally found an honest man.
Reckless, but honest.
Thanks for sharing.
He should have served at least 3 years in prison IMO
The honest part is clouded since the "land slide specialist" was hiking with his family. A family that may not want to get involved in fleeing from a manslaughter case. Playing theater was the best option whether that theater was real or not, and ultimately it doesn't matter. Lets say that it was gravity. The same gravity that can kill people on the sidewalk when you throw an old piano from a balcony because you're too lazy to carry it down the stairs. The same gravity that kills oncoming traffic when you throw a 15 pound boulder onto the flow of random cars. You know. Just for fun.
It was the perfect crime
If a person's criminal culpability is supposed to be determined by their intent at the time of the alleged crime along with the nature of their character... there are countless prior convictions that would need to be revamped immediately. This is why negligence and/or recklessness are the most important factors to be considered in a situation like this.
The standard isn't subjective in a case like this it's objective--was it reasonable under the circumstances to do what the perp did or was it negligent or reckless.
Intent has nothing to do with most criminal convictions
Negligence would be if there was a daycare somewhere below. Not empty space where there happens to be a couple knuckleheads on ropes in the middle of nothing.
This is why it’s so important for parents to teach their children wisdom. Life presents many opportunities daily for this. Always be vigilant in this effort, for your children’s sake and the sake of others.
In a way, it's more heartbreaking than the stories with a remorseless killer.
It is truly a different kind of incident that makes you feel for both sides.😢
@@jensalazar2303Excellent point.
I think it only is if the accidental killer goes to jail. Remorseless killer cases are extremely heartbreaking when the victim suffers a lot before dying. In this story, the death was instantaneous.
There used to be something in the law called reckless indifference. Clearly applies to this case.
You mean "rockless"?
@@GSP-76Booo
Like the reckless indifference to one's own life a person shows by scaling cliffs?
It’s not a new thing. There are four levels of criminal culpability: Premeditated with purpose (first degree murder), knowledge (second degree), negligence (third degree), and recklessness (manslaughter).
Yes indeed .
Such a brilliant, well thought out analysis, Dr. Grande! You measured everything in this tragic death and also an extremely remorseful person who caused it!
Your level of thought you put into these cases is truly remarkable!! ♡♡
Agree!
I worked at NOLS with Pete in the back country. He 'laid-into-me' one time because I forgot my helmet and climbed anyway. I thought it was a good lesson and appreciated Pete so much for all he had done for the climbing educational community. Also Pete took many many risks that I would have never dared to have done, as he was as bold as I thought one could get, however his brilliance was very well calculated by his ability level, years of experience and mind boggling confidence! Pete, while in this world, was a super super special climbing stud who could teach and guide as a professional master.
It would seem he suffered a rather ironic fate... I've cheated certain death by rockfall/avalanche three times, maybe I should move to Kansas.
I love the fact that you have no annoying intro content and just jump right into the subject matter. People do not realize how annoying it is to see intro content over and over and over. So, kudos to you and great job! The commentary is always interesting and entertaining. Your work is appreciated!
Hi dr. Grande. I've been absent for awhile. Good to be here. You're doing great!
A heavy rock thrown off the edge of a cliff without looking thoroughly is reckless and (in this case) deadly. I think Pete's family - now without a dad - should pursue a civil case that could award compensation for the suffering and loss they've experienced. It sounds like this could help Luke also to absolve some of his guilt.
They should've called Alex Murdaugh. He's an expert in dealing with wrongful death lawsuits
@@ricksomething who shouldn’t have been rock climbing? Luke? Pete?
@@ricksomething You are the reason why desiccant packets have a “Do not ingest” warning. Please take a vow of silence.
Didn't this happen in 2007?
Can you get blood out of a turnip
My head was cracked open in 4th Grady when a kid there a palm sized rock at me. I’ve never seen so much blood. It was horrible and I was so scared. I can’t imagine being hit with a rock bigger than that.
Dont worry you will never have to since you'll be dead LOL
Sentencing Luke to share his story and how it haunts him at his states middle and high schools would have been appropriate. They could have prepared Luke by having him work with the state's political speech writers who would have condensed truth, feelings, horror plus impact on family, friends and co-workers into a 45 minute talk.
Teachers should show this upload to their students where the subject is relevant, say in a health class. It's a valuable lesson for the young & could generate discussion as we have here in the comment section.
@@flaccidego4291 yeah because as a Florida native, where cliffs are nonexistent, we throw rocks all the time, but it's usually into a lake or water without people. More like skipping rocks I guess. But i can't say that if I went to a place with a cliff that I wouldn't throw a rock over to watch it go down to the bottom, of course not now, after watching this and it would've been more like a golf ball, not a bowling ball sized rock! Like that fact alone is really reckless and even as someone whose lived on flat ground their whole life, I would AT LEAST know better than to be hurling LARGE rocks down a cliff.
Great idea. One that would influence others for the better and have a positive impact on his audience.
@@flaccidego4291 Ahh health class. I remember watching a similar video about drunk driving and some teens running over their friend.
I grew Up next to the Bavaria alps and the First rule you teach every child is NEVER throw a Rock down a mountain !!!
as a young teen, I would spend a summer vacation with my older brother in Colorado hiking. When I threw a rock off thr mountain, my brother lost it. He yelled about how such a thing could kill someone.
Hey! Dr Grande Time! Makes insomnia worth it
Almost 👍
Lol same 😅
🙌
Agree!
I only consumed 280 mg of caffeine today too... That's only like 3.5 cups of coffee
I'm struggling with the fact that they sat around all night by the fire while Pete was deceased on the cliff. They should've hiked out or contacted Molly immediately. Steve must've had a radio or a cell phone. I think that part creeps me out the most.
The group phoned 911 immediately they realised what had happened. I imagine they and stayed so they could see the first responders retrieve Pete's body.
I would stay till I saw the body being removed from the cliff.
It’s an odd situation but there was nothing else they could’ve done. Help was coming and they had to wait for it.
@@DottieMinerva I heard it as they didn't get help until they walked out in the morning but admittedly, I could have heard that incorrectly, so yes I would've waited also if I had already called
@@DottieMinerva I heard it as they didn't get help until they walked out in the morning but admittedly, I could have heard that incorrectly, so yes I would've waited also if I had already called
@@sbrooke210 You guys are both right with what was said in the video, so it was confusing. The video said Luke's group called 911 immediately. It also said the next morning they hiked out to get help.
One of the things taught to professional gun shooters, such as soldiers and police, is to know what is beyond the target. Having been a soldier, Luke should have paid attention to what was below on the cliff, since he was the one launching rocks.
I was once in a similar situation, in Green River, Wyoming, where people above me on a cliff were trying to throw rocks into the same river I was fishing in. They did not respond to my shouts to stop, and the only way for me to leave was through the area they were hitting along the shore.
Please don't throw rocks, especially when you can't or won't look where they will land.
Interesting point there about the military training. Luke's time in the military was given as one reason *not* to charge him. I don't know whether he should have faced charges, but that argument in particular doesn't sound right to me. What about being a soldier would make you less culpable for reckless behavior?
You sound like a very intelligent and healthy young man Avery. I am so sorry you lost your Dad. I lost my son in a shooting accident. Going on without my son has been difficult. Thank God you have so much love and support in your life. It shows.
Glad you addressed this case, Dr. Grande, it's provoked a lot of thought.
I was hiking around Mount Blac with a group in 2015 when a mountain goat started a rock fall that shot through our group like a speeding car it was terrifying. As the only thing you can do is pray, and duck I took quite a while, calm the group down afterwards
This was a nuanced analysis.
Thank you Dr. Grande! I hope you have a great week ahead.❤
When I was 8 years old We went to the Empire State building in New York for a 3rd grade class trip. My friends and I threw several pennies off the top floor. Our teacher caught us and said that we might have killed some people. I never forgot that and have lived over 50 years with a lot of guilt.
I should think throwing rocks off cliffs would be a big NO, in the climbers safety rules...🤨
he wasn't a climber, he was a hiker
Dr. Grande - I like that the main picture features the victim now, with you in the top right corner. I look forward to watching your videos everyday. Keep up the great work!
I *love* knowing that, when I open RUclips in the morning, one (or more) of your videos will be waiting for me. I don’t know how you do it. Thank you for all your hard work!
In another video, Dr. Grande said he spends about 8 hours on every video.
@@roadrunner9622 Exactly! They are always well-researched and thought through.
Great time of night for a “bedtime” story! Thank you Dr. Grande!
My dad went to GW.
I agree that Luke should have been criminally charged & sentenced to community service - for his sake, the family's sake, and to send a message to the community as well. Luke was not familiar with what was below that cliff top, yet he chose to throw a _bowling ball-sized_ piece of solid rock... there could have been a trail, a campsite or even unstable rocks that undermined the edge he was standing on, sending himself & friends into free-fall. He didn't toss a few pebbles first & work up to a big rock- he dropped the biggest one he could find. It's the very definition of reckless.
EXACTLY. So well said!!!!
We aren’t even asking for prison time. But there MUST be consequences to send a MESSAGE.
THINK, PEOPLE!!!! Common sense is literally a life saving skill we all need to work on.
I say in this case to let he/she who has not sinned cast the first stone (edit: no pun intended) I'm sure all of you, if u thought real long and hard enough about things you've done, especially in your youth, I'm sure u could find examples of risky behavior that could have resulted in something tragic. In fact, nearly everyone probably won't have to go back very far in ones past to find examples of your poor decisions possibly leading to a tragedy. Just think about maybe a risky driving manuever u did or a time u were late for work & speeding & following too closely to a driver who had to break suddenly. Or u just simply got careless and changed lanes too quickly & nearly caused an accident. My best friend is an insurance claims adjuster and she said 99% of car accidents are preventable. Someone is at fault. Even if you've never been at fault in an accident, I'm sure there's times when u were driving & got distracted & very well could've been. But do also take time to reflect on actions u did as a kid that were careless that could've caused tragedy. This is a case where we all should say, let the one who has never engaged in a careless or reckless action, in their ENTIRE life, cast the 1st stone.
@@flaccidego4291 blah blah blah, this must be Luke’s secret youtube account 😂 nobodys reading all that bs youre saying to excuse a grown man throwing a 15 lb rock over a cliff
Personally I think he should have been charged with negligent homicide. Wouldn’t have carried much of a sentence but would feel like some justice for an innocent man who lost his life. His actions were definitely negligent-at the very least.
@@enshk79 a message to not throw rocks if you don't see anybody? This wasn't foreseeable given the improbability.
Oh boy, as someone who used to teach scrambling to hikers, we taught our students NOT to throw rocks, and always use situational awareness in your surroundings. Mother Nature throws enough natural rocks, boulders, and releases shelves of rock and on occasion, entire sides of mountains can release! As a landslide survivor myself who has been fully buried under rock and dirt, taking two years to recover from those injuries, the last thing adventurers need out there are rocks flying into them from human hands. I've had to rescue people seriously injured by natural rock fall; many scenarios can be avoided, and honestly, unless you're skipping a small stone across a lake where you know there are no people in boats in your line of sight, it's never a good idea to throw anything over an edge, or into a blind area.
This one really stood out to me for whatever reason. Especially everything from 13:45 onward - some of your best writing IMO.
Thanks for doing what you do ✌🏻
60 years ago I threw a rock in the air and hit a little girl in the head. I still think about that and am not happy with my behavior.
Reminds me of a dumb thing I did in college in 81. After several beers in the student union I was up on a balcony and spit off it aiming at a waste can below when without warning a female student below walked right into the path and it landed in her hair. In a drunken panic, I turned and ran. Of course I'm still embarrassed regretful when I think about it.
This is actually somewhat common, I've seen a similar event happen twice. Spitting off ledges is a bad idea. At least it won't kill someone like a rock will, but the spit always seems to find it's way to someone's head.
I accidentally spat in someone's face as they rode past me on their bike. They were cool about it.
Luckily it was just saliva and not something more lethal.
I remember guys at a college frat party throwing a beer keg off the balcony that demolished the hood of a car. I doubt they were ever convicted because how do you prove who actually did it?
I’ve started adopting bits your presentation style, “Item number 1, I’m hungry. Item number 2, this cause for concern for all of us.”
😂
Good evening Dr Grande, excellent analysis. I agree with you. Luke should be punished by what you said of cuminunuty service. But, no matter what Luke will the rest of his life remembering he took a life
This channel never fails to come up with stories that schock and sadden me.
Can t watch this. Too sad
@@janefromtennessee It is. Makes you think though.
@@natwhite1679 I just am a nervous wreck today.
I once spent a whole summer living in Sinks Canyon, at the Branson Geological field Lab...which is approximately ten miles from Lander, Wyoming. I was part of a 27 member group not counting the several field instructors...but I don't recall anyone attempting to throw rocks during the any of the daily hikes through the Wind River mountain range during daily mapping exercises. Some of the topography was so steep and dangerous, that we had to be ready and make sure to yell "Rock" if there was a loosened rock falling, in order to warn the people climbing up from below. We occasionally run across other hikers in much smaller groups without being aware of their presence until we nearly bumped into them. It would just make common sense not to throw rocks in those types of areas, whether you see folks or not.
That's strange how Luke was in the military and had seemingly a bunch of life experience, but he was still throwing rocks. That's one of the first things that we were taught as kids, never ever throw rocks anywhere near cliffs.. not only rock climbers could be killed, but people fishing, people swimming, people on the bottom of the cliff... just not a good habit to get used to doing.. I guess Luke learned the hard way.
Yeah there are a number of stories like this out there. The probability of hitting someone is extremely low, but when you have millions of people, it's going to happen a few times.
Not to mention the innocent animal he might kill.
But... he looked over the cliff first to make sure it was safe! I'm not sure what to call this... It's where people have a clue that their actions aren't the safest, so they add a safety feature or two so they can feel good about going ahead with their unsafe actions. "Ha! I just bought $5,000 of illegal fireworks. What a blast! Now I've got my bucket of water here in case one of these bombs misfires!" Never mind the fact that one of those skyrockets could fly sideways and shoot through any one of your neighbors' windows within 100 feet.
Rock throwing & trundling are actually very common amongst rock climbers. Pete's friend, who was with him that day, even said:
"It's called trundling. We all do it. Pete has thrown many rocks down the cliff side to watch it fall. Although he looks more carefully to make sure no one is there. At the memorial, about a dozen other climbers were there & I asked them, "whoever hasn't ever thrown a rock off a cliff please raise your hand"- and nobody raised their hand."
@@flaccidego4291 This day and age with the mentality of most people, I wouldn't encourage throwing rocks off of cliffs to see them fall, especially if I were a rock climber, going to a funeral of a friend hit by a rock. Can you imagine, in this day of social media, spreading to all of the kids, "It's ok to throw rocks off of cliffs near rock climbers, as long as you think you can't see any..."
I am familiar with Wyoming as I used to live there. I can understand them not prosecuting. Once you see how vast areas like that are in Wyoming you understand how a person wouldn't suspect anybody below them and it was safe to throw a rock. It's not like the city. It's a sparsely populated state, a wild place with miles and miles of no human activity.
I did a lot of climbing throughout the 1980s and never wore a helmet. One thing Luke could have done is yell, "ROCK!" He probably didn't think to do so but it could have saved Pete's life. Climbers above me have dislodged large rocks and the only warning was them yelling "ROCK! ROCK!" in time for us to look up, make a quick assessment and intuitively dodge the deadly projectile in a split second.
🙄
British shout "BELOW" to warn people.
@@Force9Gale-dt4rh - We always yelled "ROCK!" for any falling object - a rock, rocks, dirt, tree limb, flying squirrels, a falling climber, etc. It's a bit like people in cities yelling "FIRE!" when they're being raped or robbed because most people wouldn't get involved and call the police if they didn't also need help. If someone yelled "BELOW" when I was climbing, I'd think, "Below what?" We had standard rock climbing communications. "ON BELAY" "BELAY ON" "CLIMBING" "CLIMB" it's difficult to communicate while climbing so it makes sense to have standard distinct signals. I thought "ROCK!" was one of those international standards, but I did hear people yell "BELOW!" and was able to discern the meaning, but only because I'd already seen and heard the falling rock.
I worked for NOLS for some years and lived down in Lander. Moved up to Teton County a few years before this.
The geology of the Lander area, and the fact that the climate there is relatively mild for Wyoming, makes it a popular place for rock climbing- I spent a lot of time climbing cliffs around there, where the tops of the cliffs were accessible to hikers.
The Stough Creek Basin where Leg Lake is located is a popular climbing, and hiking, destination. It is relatively easy to access in the summer. It is by no means a remote wilderness. There are people around.
This was not the one-in-a-billion chance you seem to think. The cliff area involved was a known climbing area.
The moron who threw the rock was, as you say, not held accountable. It's clear that the fact that he served in Iraq was a factor in this- the County prosecutor was looking for any excuse to avoid charging this idiot.
I'm a long time mountaineer- contrary to what you seem to think we don't toss rocks in popular climbing venues.
Molly Absolon lost her husband, and was left to raise her daughter, who lost her father. As you indicate she moved up to Teton Valley, Idaho. She is still active in the outdoor community, and writes an outdoor column for a local newspaper.
Prosecution would have served two useful purposes: First, it would have served to put other idiots on notice that tossing rocks willy-nilly might have legal penalties attached. It would have served a societal good in that respect. Second, it would have reinforced a civil claim for the family.
1000% agree. I can appreciate the rationale behind not wanting to prosecute but since when is remorse and a lack of intent enough to get someone off on being charged in a clear case of reckless, negligent homicide? Luke’s actions, harmless as he may have intended them to be, demonstrated a careless disregard for human life, and I fail to see how letting him off without so much as a slap on the wrist is any different than declining to bring charges against a drunk driver who kills someone in a car accident. I’m sure the driver didn’t mean to kill anyone either, and u could even make the case that they were less culpable due to their impairment bc they weren’t fully cognizant of the implications of getting behind the wheel in their state, whereas Luke, who I assume was sober, had to know how dangerous it would be to hurl a freaking boulder off a rock climbing cliff… And yet he did it anyway. What’s his excuse??
I get wanting to avoid retribution for retribution’s sake, but there if there’s no consistency and no accountability there’s no justice, and with his decision not to pursue justice in this case, the prosecutor showed more consideration, compassion and sympathy to the perpetrator than to either his victim or his victim’s family, and imo that is truly shameful.
@@saskialolita the anology of this situation to a killer drunken driver is appropriate.
I worked at NOLS with Pete in the back country. He 'laid-into-me' one time because I forgot my helmet and climbed anyway. I thought it was a good lesson and appreciated Pete so much for all he had done for the climbing educational community. Also Pete took many many risks that I would have never dared to have done, as he was as bold as I thought one could get, however his brilliance was very well calculated by his ability level, years of experience and mind boggling confidence! Pete, while in this world, was a super super special climbing stud who could teach and guide as a professional master.
Throwing large rocks from cliffs is frighteningly frequent. There should be consequences, if not for the perpetrator, then to set a precedent for others to be aware of. Much of the law has a duality, to punish for a crime and to set a deterrent for others. I would call this "third degree involuntary manslaughter", although I'm not a law expert. I was a rock climber years ago and always worried that some imbecile could throw a large rock down if they chose to.
@@stevedriscoll2539No its not. Driving drunk is illegal. Throwing rocks in its self isn't illegal. Its actually hard to prove he was knowingly reckless if he didn't know people were in that area.
What a tragic situation. I agree with you. Luke will have to live with this for the rest of his life, which will not be easy. Awesome (As Usual) Analysis! Thanks Dr. Grande.
I don't know. His fate sounds better than a ten pound rock to the brain.
There’s a reason we were told at summer camp, “Don’t chunk rocks.” As a hiker and climber, it’s pretty basic common sense that other people are out there. Even out in the Wind River Range, it’s a widely-known recreation location. Many more people are further out in the backcountry of many states since the pandemic. Would it be ok to drive recklessly as long as you can see down the stretch of road you will be on?
Man, I feel sorry for the dude.
That fateful moment will be seared into his brain.
I watched my 39 yr old uncle die out of the blue when I was 21.
Im sorry for your loss, I couldn’t imagine anything worse. I hope you have found peace ❤
Do you feel sorry for a drunk driver killing someone?
Yeah, no. I saved my sympathy for Pete and his family. The moron who threw the rock didn't get HIS skull crushed.
I feel sorry for the man who was killed not the guy who killed him!
@@randy4768, apples and 'oranges
What a brilliant analogy: comparing throwing the rock, with shooting a cannon. It really is a similar situation.
No it's not. If you shoot a cannon you'd be aiming it. A big rock will go wherever it goes and the kid looked first (though not well enough.)
I think your analysis is absolutely correct.
Love my nightly portion of the Doc! Its always the last thing I watch before going to bed, dont know what I'd do without him! I need my hit of true crime and psychological analysis every day!
Legend has it that Dr. Grande's barber fears being diagnosed or speculated upon by what is happening, as he carefully trims his hair.
I once accidentally precipitated a small rock during my descent after climbing Mt. Lomnicky Stit in the Slovak part of Tatras. The sheer overwhelming powerlessness of watching the rock fall and barely miss some climber below me was a gut-wrenching experience. I could definitely see from his party's face expressions that they were not very happy to say the least. But that only happened because the terrain was naturally very eroded and the rock face was full of smaller and bigger loose rocks, so it wasn't always avoidable. BTW the rock was only the size of a chicken egg, tops, but people have no idea how crazily fast even the tiniest rock accelerates after just a mere 100 feet (or a few bounce-offs) down the rockface, almost like a bullet speed (not to mention it can knock off other, bigger rocks along the way). Even though nothing happened I remember being haunted by the dreadful feeling of having potentially had killed somebody, as if I actually did kill someone, for a good while.
I can't even imagine what this guy Luke must have felt (since clearly he did have a conscience after all), knowing he actually killed an innocent human being with his recklesness, throwing a boulder the size of a head, that... ultimately smashed someones head to pieces.
Just what I needed right now, packing to move house and county, new job and life and I'm a horder with adhd that needs Dr Grandes voice in the background while I pack 😀
I too am a victim of something like this, only I was 3 years old. I only know the rock thrower was an eight-year-old boy. Like you say, everyone throws rocks. I've lived my life with the smashed hand injuries from that event. I wasn't killed, but the injuries were and have been limiting. Nothing was ever said, one way or another, by anyone. Not a single apology. Life is a batch, then you die.
One New Year's, my friends convinced me to go climb this local hill. When we got there, in our party clothes, we saw a man descending with a significant amount of ice climbing gear. I really wonder what he must have thought. We all made it up and down safely, but there were some chapped asses sliding down the slope to beat the dusk.
Sad situation all around🥾⛏️It was good he took responsibility for sure. Great analysis again. Thanks Dr G😊🤎🤎
Hello my dear friend, sorry about your mum, I'm sending love and lots of hugs to you both. Noah not dealing with his sisters death, poor baby was forgotten when we were grieving 😢💔💔💔
@@cottontails9003 Thank you, heading to 🛏 ❤💚Hugs back to you & Noah 🤍🤍💔💔👶🫂
❤ Love your work!
What a tragic story! People need to think before they throw heavy objects. This really hits home. (no pun intended) Just today I heard a heavy object hit the side of my home. I went outside to investigate and saw four teenage boys in a neighbors backyard standing behind a high chain link fence. I live below them. I noticed there was a large coffee mug that read "I love you" on it and I realized it was what was thrown. It just missed a large pot I have sitting by my front door and just missed a window in my living room. If the cup had broken the window it would have also broken some pricey one-of-a-kind art and collectables. If I had been sitting in the area it could have hit me in the head and I would have been cut by flying glass. So now I'm in a quandary. Do I say nothing and discard the mug? Or do I send a polite note to the parents and risk their wrath? Another neighbor told their dog to be quiet and she went ballistic and said, "No one tells my dog to shut up." I can only imagine how defensive she could get over her son. I'm not sure what to do, and she may want her mug back since it didn't break, lol, but the rock thrower in this case was extremely careless and irresponsible regardless of his remorse. A man died. Sorry doesn't cut it.
Here's a note for you... "I was kidnapped from the kitchen by four teenage boys, one threw me over the fence and I narrowly avoided a career ending injury. Lucky a kind lady picked me up, wrote my story, and returned me to the warm embrace and soft lips of the family I love".
Those kid's will grow up to be the type to throw rock's off of cliff's when their adults because their parents never taught them boundaries. I think you should tell the mother what the son did even if she doesn't like hearing it
@@williamsherman1089 I tend to agree with you. I appreciate your input very much because I wasn't certain what I should do. No real harm was done but it could have been bad, besides, she may want her mug back:-)
I'm not forming a good impression of your neighborhood. Chain link fences, boys throwing things at houses, parents of boys not being conscientious neighbors. Maybe I have it wrong, but that's the mental image.
In both instances, you're supposed to call the cops. Don't be a total wuss. Or else don't expect anyone to feel sorry for you.
I can still hear my father yelling, " No throwing anything! Knucklehead! Stop!" So no, we don't throw things, point things, or push things.
Watching this story reminded me of an accident that happened in the mountains of Colorado in the summer of 1987. Road construction crews were doing maintenance on a road and an earthmover accidentally dislodged a boulder that went rolling down the hillside and hit a Gray Line tour bus, killing 7 passengers. If I remember correctly, the operator of the earthmover was charged with involuntary manslaughter.
Ever been in a prison Doc? It's plain stupid to send this guy there where his life would be in danger. REALITY: Courts and prisons are clogged up enough. This was a tragic mistake. That guy is paying the price now as he has a conscience.
What's a cronscience?
Less dangerous than grown man randomly deciding to start throwing 20 pound rocks over a climbing path? How is that even entertaining? I don't really see this being a "mistake" or "accident" its a pointless dumb activity that got someone killed. Regardless of intent the pure lack of logic deserves punishment.
He didn't say he should go to prison. Although I think he should, since he's a selfish asshole for throwing a 20lb boulder where people hike. By the way, whether or not he has a CONSCIENCE is irrelevant. Him claiming to feel bad doesn't bring back the innocent man he so selfishly killed for no reason. I would NEVER do something like that and neither would most people, since most people can't stand the thought of potentially harming someone or something. He's a selfish dick, plain and simple.
That's what I just commented. It's obvious the Dr. hasn't been prosecuted or in a jail/prison. It and having a record wouldn't benefit this kid or society.
@@SRNF you really think that this guy is a danger to society, that he should be put away for what he didn’t intentionally do? 2 peoples lives got destroyed in that situation, and you want to destroy one persons life even more? people should not be punished for making stupid mistakes.
Teens throwing boulder rocks down a hill for fun almost killed me ! They were surprised to see me arrive at the top . If they all had killed me it would have surprised them .
It would have suprised them?
Yea and the same stupid kids throw rocks over passes and kill people too
Sometimes living with guilt over something like this, will punish Luke for the rest of his life. Especially if it truly was an accident.
I consider myself a pretty experienced outdoors person and I have never heard a rule not to throw rocks off a cliff. Of course it makes total sense, I'm just surprised I haven't heard of it. I'm very glad that my awareness has now been raised because in reading through the comments it's apparently very common. That is BAD. Even small rocks could severely injure somebody if they are looking up at the wrong time.
With so many people in the outdoors, there should be laws against throwing rocks off cliffs (or anything else for that matter, all garbage should be packed out), and parks should have this posted as a rule on the signs at trailheads, with a note about criminal and civil penalties.
The perpetrator should have at least been charged with manslaughter.
The points about leaving mother nature alone are well taken.
Imagine the horror of discovering that a thoughtless lark had resulted in the death of a stranger. I believe that most people are basically good hearted. Luke's honesty in the face of the dire consequences of his actions go a long way to exculpate him of any ill intent. I suspect that Luke himself has carried the remorse and guilt with him every day since Pete died. I realize that does absolutely nothing to soothe Pete's surviving loved ones. I also agree that Luke himself may have been better served by some acknowledgement of his wrongdoing, and some community service to atone for it. The best outcome would have been giving Luke the task of coming up with a public talk about the danger of throwing rocks off mountainsides, and to present that talk to schools and community centers, etc...hopefully preventing a similar event from ocurring again.
I like Dr. Grandes idea that Luke may have benefitted from some form of prosecution. Also it could have given some closure to Pete's family. I think it probably affected Luke deeply and he wont get over it easily. Sad day.
Maybe this case is a little like the grandfather who held his grandson out of a high window on a cruise ship and the boy slipped and died. In a foreign court the man was offered a deal for a guilty plea to involuntary manslaughter/reckless homicide in exchange for no jail time and a small fine---but it was on the record and the public acknowledgment of responsibility. Dr. Grande wasn't advocating jail time, just official acceptance a reckless mistake. Also a good basis for civil recovery by Pete's family.
Luke was not a child but a man and a veteran at that so he had been taught proper armament care and training.
Yes Doctor this should have been appropriately prosecuted. Becoming a speaker to high school youth assembly's would have been appropriate.
I'm 70 now and I can still recall a couple of heart felt speakers we had at our high school who had a great deal of impact on my a bit of a wild child.
That would have gone a long way to help the rock thrower and the victims wife heal.
I just love Dr Grande and how well he does his work.👌
@@brainpolice1605 Oooookies. Somebody missed their weekly anger management appointment.
Thanks for this video. Avery's remarks below are very thought provoking. Shocked he never got an apology in person.
Why would anyone out in the middle of the nowhere start throwing rocks? Such a weird action to begin with.
I agree. I love hiking or just wandering through the woods and I can’t ever remember throwing rocks but Dr Grande said it is quite common.
Been hiking many times in my youth and never threw so much as a pebble I think these guys were looking to create a situation Why would any normal person do such a thing He was throwing a bowling ball NO respect for others and no respect for nature and he was not even punished???
I am strange and wonder why no one thinks it would scare or injure an animal as well as a possible person..
You know who throws rocks..? Little children and careless protestors - same mentality. Don’t throw rocks. There’s a reason why most people learn this.
@@pn1831 Exactly! I commented this as well. Do people not care that hurling large rocks down a mountain might also injure or kill wildlife? Totally careless act.
Luke's life kind of ended that day too. He will never be alright or the same. And he'll always be looking over his shoulder.
I was a climber for many years. On one solo ice climb, a party moved across and over me, a few hundred feet above. The nature of the ice that day caused them to start dropping dinner plate size pieces of ice. Any one of them could have easily killed me. Fortunately, I was able to quickly climb to a small impresion in the cliff face. I huddled there for over an hour as ice blocks pounded the slight overhand just above my head, spraying me with ice shards. Finally, as quickly as the crisis started, it was over. Cold and shaken, I continued my climb glad to have survived. As climbers, we know the risk we take, especially climbing around other humans.
Agreed. Kinda lame the 2nd climbers redacted his forgiveness statement. He should know it was their risk they were taking by standing underneath a fuckin cliff while mountain climbing. Nothing safe about any of that.
Can't be negligent to throw the rock when the invisible mountain climbers below had no reasonable expectation of safety anyway.
That's like saying it would he a drivers fault if a skydiver randomly landed in front of their moving car while maybe they were speeding 10mph over.
Regardless of the drivers speed, sky divers and mountain climbers don't have reasonable expectations of safety while doing dangerous shit that no one else could expect or be aware of.
I've climbed up on A LOT of cliffs in my day and never seen anyone below standing around. No one can expect some people are gonna be in the shittiest places way out in the forest
Superb and fair assessment.
Very good analysis. Thank you.
The author Laurenz van der Post, South African mentor of the young Charles lll, had something to say about defiling pristine places with human idly imposed disturbances. Venture to the Interior (1951) gives a wonderful insight into how best to move respectfully in untouched nature.
This isn't too different from the case with Alec Baldwin...
In 4th grade at recess, I threw a badminton racquet into the air as hard as I could after missing a volley. The competing team was being mean and obnoxious, so I was furious about getting out. Unfortunately, that racquet was subject to gravity and came down on some poor 3rd grader's head. The playground teacher found me and demanded to know if I had done that to him. Nine-year-old me was mortified. To this day I feel horrible about that incident. Worse, to save face, I lied and said it had slipped out of my hand. Respect for this kid who admitted his terrible mistake. I can't imagine living with something like that.
I mean Baldwin didn’t know that the gun was loaded I believe
It’s hard for me to consider Luke’s actions criminal. But at the end, his careles actions put an end to the life of a living soul. Luke’s going to need lots of therapy.
Incredible analysis, Dr G. Really good thought exercise with this one. ✌️💕
We were at Royal Gorge Bridge in CO and some kids were chucking rocks over the edge…my wife and I laid into them hard to the bewilderment of their parents watching the whole thing…
Well done presentation. Often we do things like throwing rocks or some other reckless behavior, having an affair, without a thought of consequences to our actions. Luke reminds me of a tortured character from one of Shakespeare tragic plays. He now carries his guilt around sentence to life now.
He was negligently reckless and in an area known for mountain climbing and hiking. He didn't check proplerly until after he threw it.
I’ve lived in the Sierra Nevada Mountains for 40 years, raised two children and now three grandchildren. I just recently taught my grandson that you don’t even throw stones over a cliff for this reason. In this day and age there are people everywhere you go, have respect, safety first. Just like my children, my grandson was six when he learned, you don’t throw rocks over cliffs for this very reason. His parents are irresponsible and responsible for this tragedy. RIP
I disagree with you
Good Day,Dr. Grande. Been missing your Analyses. Carry on, Sir.
I live out in the woods with a creek on my property. I have no boys of my own. I have never seen my daughters throw rocks in the creek as an activity. But when boys have come to visit, as soon as they get close to the creek they are looking for a rock to throw in.
When my 2 daughters were in high school and college, I was always flabbergasted by what their male friends were up to! I was not accustomed to shenanigans that resulted in criminal charges or broken bones. The boys also flung me into the pool with my clothes in…not long after having neck surgery..