This Study Changes Everything We Know About Fearful Avoidants
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- Опубликовано: 15 мар 2024
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I found a study that might have changed everything we know (or think we know) about fearful avoidants. 
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Therapist here. I will say that what can be relationally valuable about therapy is helping clients move away from being overly analytical of themselves. There is so much psych content available, which can be a good catalyst for self-awareness, but there is little value in dissecting every last detail of the question "why am I like this". Therapy helps draw the line between knowing enough information about yourself so then you can move into learning how to safely emotionally connect with yourself (and then others). Attachment strategies are great examples of knowing the "why" while still struggling with not knowing how to change that. Co-regulation is absolutely a critical piece of healing for all attachement wounding.
So true. Fearful avoidant here. In therapy. I do this a lot. I feel I’m constantly working on being a better person. Studying myself like I’m studying for an exam. One of the characteristics of FA is indeed this behavior of working tirelessly to be a person someone could love.
already somebody very loveable just as you are. I’m glad you’re getting therapy so you come to feel this to your core.
I've found the attachment strategies really help with changing things, far more than therapy ever did. But I did this work in PDS where it really is strategies more than just understanding the why of the attachment types. PDS gets you to reprogramme those core wounds eh abandonment and feeling unsafe. It's been so so game changing for me.
@@emilyb5557 Hi, what do you mean with "PDS"?
@@emilyb5557 I was curious. Also, what is PDS?
Avoidant loyalist here.
I was dating a FA for around 2 years and she was the most caring and loving person in the world; if you got them in the right environment.
She would have movements of avoidance but I’m very secure and would automatically give her space and would only take a day or two to come back.
Clearly didn’t like talking about difficult stuff but with a partner willing to be vulnerable first they’ll also share.
We’ve been broken for you a for a week and been in NC since she left. Was clearly extremely difficult for her to do it and could see the confusion, but I know I can’t chase as it’ll push and will be patient IF she wants to come back.
If you’re not a secure person I can see why you’d find it hell, but if you’re stable and stand firm they tend to not swing as much (from my experience).
The reason for this is actually attraction. I don't necessarily believe in attachment styles. And while temperament and traumas DO contribute to how he show up in relationships; I've never seen anyone complain about their partner being "avoidant" while said partner had high attraction and pursued. That word only ever comes up after the dumpee finds RUclips and tried to rationalize what they don't understand as a gradual loss of attraction that and desire to exit the situation. Therefore, the environment you had her in was one in which her attraction was high. Definitely stay NC.
@@Champ1988Attraction long term is largely based on how well two people work to understand each other's needs because the initial attraction always disappears when no one is willing to resolve conflict.
I'm a secure style and my FA shoved me into anxious in short order. I had fallen in love and he developed the Ick because his buddies magnified his Ick I found. He was spoon loving until the ick happened. His parents died in a plane crash when he was 20 and he was the only one who coupes identify his mom she was so badly charred. She was the stable regulating parent for him. His father not so much so seeing his perfect caregiver all charred in my opinion leads to his fear of abandonment/ick reality. His wife literally shut down during the honeymoon and became cold for 26 years - he said. His first short lived relationship out of divorce was with a very wealthy woman and he developed limerance when she backed away from him and with me, the 2nd relationship it was all intimacy without me being wealthy. Kind of like his mom (they lived modestly) and everything was triggered for him. Now his adaptations seem narcissistic bc his buddies who have given up on women and are wealthy attorneys are narcisstic. What a mess hu?
@@Champ1988 I think you’re right.
A lot of people learn about attachment styles after the fact then blame it on that. We both knew about it from our first date so was always managed but not obsessed over to the point I forgot there was trauma there 90% of the time.
Only time will tell if she comes back and it was either a period of avoidance which I’m not entertaining and went NC or just isn’t attracted anymore which the only response is also NC because I have self respect.
yes we want to feel secure and loved. but you hv to do it properly and in steps. Any skipping of steps triggers fear and i’ll run. first do the regular hi and say hi how are you small talk first stuff. yes we want love but not overly close love. we want acceptance of who we are as we are and we don’t want to reciprocate not because we don’t think we need to, but in us, it’s not innate we don’t know how to be there and then when we contemplate what we should do to reciprocate it scares us to death because we can barely take care of ourselves let alone someone else. so we choose being alone or aloof to protect ourselves from any responsibility towards others. we want to be good people and do the right thing but it’s so scary and overwhelming it’s not worth all the hassle. people are very complicated especially if you never got the manual on how to engage with them. As far as relationships goes the first time i feel dismissed or the love bomber discards me it’s see ya time. if they could just be nice and consistent that would be fine but they trigger the you have nothing to offer so be gone with ya making us feel insignificant.
As an FA I would agree that avoidance is the primary response. Why would I choose to chase after someone if I could withdraw and protect myself instead?
Yes. It’s like if a person was bit by a dog. What is needed if for them to be around several dogs who DON’T bite them to realize dogs can be safe.
nope it would be russian roullette just to learn several dogs might not bite but one that does can rip off onces face, playing with safety is stupid
Excellent Point !
Fearful avoidant here, leaning towards learned secure. The thing is that fearful avoidants and dismissive avoidants avoid for very different reasons. Fearful avoidants avoid out of fear of abandonment, fear of intimacy because of past adverse experiences. Dismissive avoidants have a fear of engulfment/fear the lose of independence. The deactivating strategies of a dismissive avoidant can be very painful. That is why they get a bad rap. Some of their deactivating strategies include hyper focusing on real or perceived flaws in their partner. Also seeking other relationships so that the relationship doesn’t feel so engulfing to them. Having an idolized other that they compare you to. I agree that safe relationships are the cure. Fearful avoidant does surround themselves with unsafe connections because of the repetition compulsion. Ironically, the unsafe person feels safe because it feels familiar. I’ve had to teach myself what safety truly looks like and learn to titrate, or slowly expose myself to allowing safe others into my experience. Slow for the win.
as a fearful avoidant, I noticed I tend to be avoidant unless I'm dealing with a dismissive avoidant
Being a former fearful avoidant gives a unique perspective where you can empathize with both anxious attachment and avoidant attachment. I've dealt with DAs before and I feel like I can take their behavior less personally because of my own avoidant tendencies. I can also empathize the reassurance anxious attachers need. From my own journey healing my attachment style I've learned that it isn't about you, it's an internal war the other person is having with themselves.
Maybe I’m the minority here, but I am apparently fearful avoidant. However, I am not fearful of losing my independence. I am fearful of being abandoned. If I’m not 💯 on how someone is feeling or maybe there has been a small change in communication, any sort of inconsistency, I get this overwhelming urge to run. I will start picking everything apart and convincing myself that I need to just bail.
The only time I’ve ever felt anything close to “losing my independence” is when I have dated certain people and felt completely smothered. Upon much introspection, I have determined that these individuals all had the same thing in common. They were really kind people. Quite frankly, I didn’t know how to accept that energy because what is familiar to me is being abused… and whats familiar can become comfortable.
With all of that being said, therapy. I recommend therapy, self assessment and accountability. Journaling is a wonderful tool.
Wow I am so impressed about the self awareness you expressed and the fact that you got therapy!
I wish you continued healing!
Not easy but awareness is half the battle won already. I always believed the core wound of dismissive avoidants to be shame, not losing independence. Can fully relate to what you say about certain people wanting to stifle; it's the worry that they'll be controlling, and take over everything, micromanaging your life so it becomes hard to feel like an individual anymore, rather than fear of losing independence. Especially for women who are generally wired towards being in a relationship. * Wanting to smother (I said stifle there)
@@Jessievera despite what is described in these videos, I do have feelings and do consider the feelings of others, including my own. It doesn’t feel good to me to feel as though I am incapable of having a healthy romantic relationship (my friendships are all solid).
I sought therapy for about every other reason besides relationships though. I think it’s clear that insecure attachment stems from trauma, and I’m no exception.
I will say, it is not just childhood wounds that have shaped my views on relationships, it’s also trauma in adult relationships. I’m willing to bet I’m not the only one. If I take it back, I think I had more of an anxious attachment style when I first entered adulthood.
With all that said, it’s no one else’s job to address these issues other than me. I don’t know who needs to hear this: if someone isn’t already actively working on their issues without you, walk away.
@@ashton1952 I have come to realize that shame is the driver of many, many, MANY of my personal wounds and I’m willing to bet I’m not alone in that.
I am going to take some time and consider your explanation of the smothering feeling. That one I don’t quite understand (for myself), as to why I feel the “smother” with some and not with others, so I’m open to a new take for sure!
I’m only slightly annoyed that relationships have become akin to an Olympic sport lmao
If you have healthy self-esteem, you will not tolerate a fearful avoidant constantly pushing you away and disappearing for weeks. Your emotional needs are simply not being met, and after so many beautiful moments spent together, it is inconceivable that the other person can behave like this and move away.
And if you are patient and supportive, you will give yourself up.
I've been in this and I think it's mission impossible without your partner having the foresight to seek medical help.
Therefore, it is not possible to have a healthy relationship if your partner is constantly afraid of losing his independence.
My girlfriend, when I got too close to her, disappeared for weeks, we didn't spend any time together because she avoided me, became depressed, and her personality completely fell apart. He tried to cool down the emotional chaos inside her. Constant emotional ups and downs.
A lot of your energy and time is spent trying to figure out what could be wrong with you, what is really going on.
It's an incredibly sad story that you became a part of and it will hurt a lot in the end, even though they could have been happy if she had taken care of herself a little and asked for help!
This is my opinion!
I'm in this right now...and I'm FA too but I'm aware of myself and fight those thoughts and fears (well, sometimes they still manage to win for a bit). My boyfriend gets too closed (he is way worse than my old self) and then pulled away and built a huge wall (he opened up to me a lot and now he can't even talk about how he feels or other emotional stuff). I know what he is going through and what he is doing unconsciously but it's still a pain for me too. At least I've managed to convince him to go to a therapist to work on himself...but still hurts a lot
Been there. And if you love yourself, you won't tolerate that dismissive behavior
Yes…”Don’t leave me!” -- “ugh, you’re smothering me, I’m out of here”.
Yup. My FA ex that I left 10months ago after almost 6 years together was basically like, “I love you more than anyone I’ve ever been with, this is the best relationship I’ve ever had, no one has ever loved me as much or treated me as well as you have, you are the love of my life. Now go away.” Hot and cold. I couldn’t take it anymore, nor had I ever experienced anything remotely like that in my life. I left and 10 months later when we talk(infrequently), she drops hints about wanting to work things out here and there. She can’t be alone, but she can’t truly be with someone either. Sad for her.
Fearful avoidants can turn secure partners by their actions anxious!
My wife and I have been together 23 years. Only within the past couple years did we discover that I'm dismissive avoidant and she's fearful avoidant. We both have individual therapists and a couple's therapist. We've been working on issues, and trying to make changes. Speaking for myself as a DA, there is a lot that I never realized were issues, that seemed normal, and are extremely hard to change. Even after years of therapy. Also true about don't demonize people just because on an attachment style, it just takes some work, they're still people, and probably don't realize what they're doing. Also, I just discovered this channel today, extremely insightful.
My husband and I are experiencing the same situation. Could you please share how you were convinced to change, and what steps you both took to maintain a healthy relationship? In the meantime I think that my relationship with my husband is very complicated & can't be healthy. I need help if you don't mind.
@@ramashakaroun2863 There isn't enough space here to get into it all, or to even say it is necessarily a healthy relationship. We started to change when we spoke of divorce and didn't also didn't want to. As a dismissive, what I need to focus on is that not only do I not look at her feelings, I don't look at mine. That is one of the top things I work on in therapy right now. An exercise I use to work on empathy is to ask myself throughout the day "How is she feeling right now?" And while it is taking a logical look, not an emotional look, at it, it helps to remember what she is going through, and react that way.
Then the other main thing is for both of us to look at how we handle conflict, and to remember how the other one handles conflict (as in, she gets upset and reacts immediately, I'm conflict avoidant and push it down, but can be passive aggressive later), and to both be aware of it at the time. I don't shy away from conflict, but talk about what is going on, what I see, my needs, and don't lie/try to dismiss her needs to get out of it. Likewise, she tries to talk about what is going on, and doesn't just get mad and yell about it. If neither of us can do that, because we're too overwhelmed, ask for a time out, and come back 45 min, or 4 hours, or 24 hours later...but cannot just do that to avoid that topic completely.
There is obviously a lot more, but I would say those are the two big things I take on to stop avoiding conflict, and to take into account her needs more.
@@ramashakaroun2863My DH and I are also a DA/FA couple. We’ve come SO far in the last year or so. I was diagnosed with stage four cancer last year, so we’re both hoping to make the most of our time together. I want to experience a secure relationship with him before I go. I also want him to be secure so he can live his life to the fullest. It’s a painful wake up call, but I’m so happy we’re working through these challenges!
I have to say, the journey this channel has been on is absolutely a blessing to those who follow. I actually feel like you are honing in on the proper posture of the Heart to help our loved ones heal!
I’m an FA 😞 I’m so weary. People try to love me and I don’t know how to let them.
Reparenting and therapy ❤
I’m right there with you. I struggle with this all the time.
By accepting them with grace instead of running away
Thank you for your honesty. I am sorry that you long for love and don't know how to let people love you.
I am Securely attached, and I met and dated a FA (not obvious at first) who was a lovely person that, like you, couldn't let in love. In the end, he discarded me in a brutal fashion because he couldn't let me love him. Thankfully I understand Attachment Theory and knew precisely what was coming, therefore I didn't torture myself by taking the matter personally. However, it was still a sad and hurtful event for me because I once felt that our relationship held so much promise. It was also sad because it hurts me to see someone I care about suffering so greatly. You have no idea how much I longed to hear him say to me what you said above: People try to love me and I don't know how to let them. Thank you for saying these words. Hearing them from you helps my heart considerably. Wishing you all the best.
We need to advocate for more benefits for mothers staying home paid until their child is 3 years old. Prevention is part of this equation. Most mothers work nowadays. That changed within the last 100 years or so- I doubt it's unrelated. I bet these numbers are less in the neatherland regions where more and better maternity leave is offered. This is definitely a multi faceted issue.
Maybe family studies/ correct parenting can be introduced as a high school subject. We learn so many useless things and when it comes to life skills like relationships and financial stuff we're left clueless if our parents didn't have a clue either
100% this!!!!
This is all so very bad for business. What do you want, higher wages when women withdraw from the workforce? Cheaper properties when families start loving each other and living together, crash economy when people start enjoying each other's company instead of impulse-buying? Depression is good for business. Love is bad for business.
@@GSXR750wxThis is very true. The system profits from overworked overmedicated overeaters and overconsumers.
Capitalism in medicine fascinates me- I'm a full time patient with rare diseases. Capitalism allowed for rapid expansion in pharmokinetics and pharmacology, but tanked patient care. Even my physicians complain about the reputation of an MD not meaning what it used to. People are in medicine for profit now not people. It's gone from a basic right to a purchasable luxury. Or at least we're rapidly heading in that direction. Finances needs to be taken away from the patient care. We somewhere idolized the dollar and forgot what a quality human life is- priceless regardless of currency.
Fearful avoidant here.
It’s sad that the comment section on some of these videos are so judgemental. Anxious attachment is also considered insecure. We’ve all become this way for a reason.
I come to these videos.. not only to understand myself, but also others that I love. We all deserve it.
As far as empathy, I have been told many times that I’m quite empathetic. Sometimes I try to shut it off because it hurts SO MUCH. Injustice especially.
I’ve developed coping mechanisms just to function w pain and loss.
I’m in narrative somatic trauma therapy and practicing yoga and meditation. It is doing a world of good. It’s a shame that not all people have access to mental health care.
Have you looked at the shadow work of why injustice hurts so much. It can be because of unhealed feelings of injustice from earlier years eh from abandonment, being let down in big ways or in smaller ways on a regular basis etc
Anxious are well known for making someone else responsible for how they feel. That's part of their attachment style. Don't worry about that 🎉
I am an FA that leans Dismissive but am mostly secure now. I 100% agree with this video. I'm only anxious when scenarios just like you described come up. As a child, I was labeled as just so happy and could entertain myself for hours. Hello! My parents meant well.
I get so sick of avoidants always villanizing dissmives, like they play no part. I'm so grateful for you speaking some truth into this. I hope you do more of this because it actually makes avoidants accountable for their side of the street.
Ultimately people don't know what they don't know. I get that but often all the "shoulds" is absurd. We all heal in relationship. First to ourselves and within a partnership of some kind. That takes courage, empathy, curiosity, mindfulness, non violent communication and the list goes on, regardless of your attachment style.
Do the work on you no matter your attachment style and stop blaming. Your whole world will absolutely change! I refused to stay in victim mode. That strategy was no longer working for me.
How did you get help and heal?
Your last sentence is exactly it 🎉. Feeling like a victim and blaming a partner is nothing but an insecure strategy. Once you've experienced every attachment style in relationships, it becomes crystal clear.
Yup! I leave before I am left. Then get mad that I don’t get chased. 😮
That's what my person does. I am kind to her. I respect her independence and give her space, and she goes away. When she comes back, she looks for me, purposefully runs into me, and looks me in the eyes for long, long time, which turns my whole world upside down. In our next meeting, she pushes me away, and everything dies till I create distance and the circle continues. Now she is suffering from mysterious pains and the doctor said it's "stress". Still pushes me away if I try to get near. I tell her not to overthink. But she can't help it 😢
Bruh that's toxic as fk
That's not being an avoidant, that's being immature
The avoidant sociopaths are always oddly proud of it
@@Kavilion yes I'm proud of that its fun
This is interesting, I became FA in adulthood after a long term relationship.
Thank you for this video. I just recently found out I am a fearful avoidant a month and a half ago after my ex left me for a 2nd time because my issues weren't resolved. I have been trying to learn about this attachment style to heal from my traumas I never knew I had and videos like these help calm me down knowing I'm not the only one acting the way I did by being afraid to open up emotionally with anyone or even setting boundaries for myself with anyone and just allowed whatever treatment since I was used to it my whole life. I am working on healing with therapy, journaling and meditation. Its a tough road but I know the end result is worth relivong everything to fully heal
Appreciate the compassion here a lot. People who disparage DA / FA styles have been really hurt (and I have also felt that way about DAs) and lash out in response. I'm an FA and I do want to get better. The key question is: can your FA have vulnerable conversations about their feelings, and can each person take responsibiilty for their anxiety and not make it the other person's job to fix?
Yes. How can you get better in a constant cycle of misunderstanding and harsh criticism always saying you’re the bad guy.
I’m feeling like unrealistic expectations are a major problem, wanting a microwave relationship and the level of control people want while in the relationship IS the PROBLEM.
I have been guilty of all those things and I am more self aware because I’ve been dating an avoidant for months.
Does his behavior frustrate me - ABSOLUTELY. But I’m also intelligent enough to know I am responsible for domestic if it too.
I am very grateful for these comments tonight. Especially from the DAs and FAs.
I realize I messed up thinking I can just treat someone like I treat someone else and it backfired majorly.
I’m not being delusional. I am just as responsible for where we are as he is because I should have taken my time and not become so emotionally attached and invested.
I’m pretty sure I most likely would have experienced some fallout at this point but I would have a the very least been objective.
Meaning, I would still love him the same as I do today but with an understanding that we are going to have hurdles, some very unique ones , to cross.
I can say my DA/ FA is honest, kind and tried to be a good person to me.
He is probably never going to be 100 but I have been in relationships with people who were downright manipulative, controlling and overall selfish and to the average person’s standards would say they’re ideal mates.
lol
I would still choose this man over a million because he is a fantastic human who has suffered much and it’s not his fault and all I can do is try.
People don’t want to try. They think everything has to be easy or it’s as they all love to say a narcissist or it’s red flags. ❤
you can avoid fixing anything that breaks for stupid reasons and bake a beautiful cake and celebrate to avoid sharing the cake with them it makes ne avoid more and more!
Anxious attached person here. I just want to say to the avoidants on here who have taken the huge step of going to therapy and becoming brave enough to do so in order to better themselves that i have the biggest RESPECT for you! The sad thing ive noticed with my avoidant partner is he simply can not get the courage to go to therapy at all yet contsantly complains how he is no good and this or that but makes zero effort to change that. Which is why im here commenting. Sigh..
I'm a fearful avoidant myself, with the borderline personality disorder diagnosis.
Some quick background for reference... My mom is a covert narcissist whom also has borderline. My parents were married, and my dad is codependent on my mom to make the decisions and to dish out the discipline... My dad had two alcoholic parents and a little sister whom he took on the responsibility of taking care of. He wasn't present for much of the abuse or emotional manipulation, as he was trying to be responsible by going to school and working full time to better his family. For My moms mom I would take an educated guess that she has histrionic or antisocial personality disorder.
Given severe depression and depression running on both sides of my family, that's a damn good chance for me to have inherited as well.
Having grown up with my parents, I learned that mom was cruel, used manipulation tactics constantly, and I took on the black sheep role of the usual narcissistic family dynamics. I got in trouble so often for things I didn't do (I have 2 older brothers), that I started accepting that me getting in trouble was similar to a 50/50 coin toss.
Fast forward 15 years, I'm now 33 and the majority of my adult relationships mimicked the same power dynamic as with my parents. I was used to getting in trouble for no reason, I didn't learn how to deal with conflict in a healthy manner, I wasn't even allowed to stand up for myself for fear of inflicting a narcissistic wound on mom, that's when she became physically abusive. Mom trained me how to be a doormat, to ignore my needs, and in order to survive, things would go best if I accommodated the person in the seat of power, soothed them when they were dysregulated, and stay out of their way otherwise.
Part of my mom's manipulation tactics included secluding me from spending time with friends outside of school, by "grounding" me for extremely long periods of time (a whole summer one time), by convincing me that a particular friend I was getting close to was a bad choice of friend, or if that didn't work, she would restrict me from going to spend time with that friend.
The combination of neglect, emotional manipulation, and physical abuse when I disagreed with her... And combine that with limited access to secure attachment style individuals because she isolated me, has led me to a place where I have very few actual skills (it's not like she went out of her way to teach me something that might eventually benefit me), I have the emotional regulation capacity of a toddler, and I have the social skills of a 10 year old, and a complete lack of knowledge about myself, my preferences, my needs, etc.
That's how borderline personality comes about.
Toss in that I was raped by my cousin whom was supposed to babysit me when I was 5 or 6. I reported it to my mom after it happened, and not only did she not believe me, I actually got in trouble for "lying" about it. Lo and behold, 6 months later, my younger female cousin was being babysat by the same older male cousin, and she was molested by him.
Talk about not being protected from harm afterwards, nor empathized with. I wasn't even validated of the experience of being sexually abused.
This kind of shit is what fucks people up bad enough to become fearful avoidants, to develop borderline personality disorder.
I'm not justifying the bed behavior people notice about us when we're adults. Just consider, that WE WERENT taught healthy ways of existing, of dealing with stress, of teaming up for a shared goal. We are still responsible for improving as much as we can with our weaknesses, but please understand, we are not purposely trying to push people away. In fact, it's the last thing we want to do. We don't want to be alone, and we want to be loved as nearly unconditionally as possible. But we learned that manipulation is how to get our needs met. So we are somewhat toxic from others perspectives. We're not inherently cruel. Just have a lot of learning still to go.
😂 the people against avoidants are the people that have been in relationships with them, and the people defending them are them. Change my mind.
I'm an anxious attachment through and through. And while it wasn't easy being with my now ex and her avoidant tendencies at times, avoidants are still worthy and deserving of love. I still love my ex with my entire being. She left to protect herself. But in general avoidants are still deserving of love and worthy of it
@@codymacnamara7197 this is a touchy subject, but are you worthy of love? I’m not asking for an answer to that. I think you should think about it. The anxious avoidant relationship boils down to the anxious feeling like they’re not OK and the avoidant is OK and the avoidant feeling Like they are OK and the anxious is not OK. You both agree and you’re both wrong. They can only receive love they can’t really reciprocate it, at least not a significant degree. Saying that they are deserving of love is the same thing as saying that you are not. It’s noble, but it’s also naïve and foolish. That’s like letting yourself get eaten by a wolf because everything deserves to eat.
@dominicktaylor6898 I believe all people are deserving of love regardless of their attachment types. The attachment styles have to do with trauma as a kid or from previous experience. I realize that anxious/avoidant relationships can be difficult and cause both people to spiral into the cycles that they are a part of. But that doesn't mean that either person is unworthy. Long answer short, I am just as worthy of love as any avoidant. Trauma can be soothed and worked on to be better.
I'm anxious. Husband is D/A avoidant. I see how I relate, I see how he relates. I see it as a neutral, dual- sided thing. Each has pros and cons. Instead of fighting eachother, fight the enemy which is ego. Each of us. Knowledge is power. There's no right or wrong. It's hard but if we understand ourselves we can understand eachother. We're all wired differently. Certain behaviors we ALL have, can be good or bad towards ourselves and others. Meet in the middle. For example, I admire my Avoidant's Husband as in he only relies on himself *even though* he wants to be loved. Sometimes near, sometimes far. Same with me. I see all types with pros and cons. We can't change how we were brought up BUT we can change how we view ourselves and others. "Labels" don't define us unless we want them to. To me, a "label" like this narrows each of us down to the type of psychology each of us has.
Every single one of us (considering we're not brain dead) is able to change our brains. This is known as "neuroplasticity." Each time we learn something new to us, it changes our brain. If you commit yourself to be able to look at certain things as not "good " or "bad" however we personally see things, but instead look at it from a curious and neutral perspective, that's where I think the sweet spot is.
There's things about him that I WISH I could do, like emotionally detach from things that in reality are not so serious. I tend to anxiously hyperfocus on things to bring it back to a place where I consider "it" ok. But for me that's in a "healthy detachment" kind of way, not a "no, it needs to be how I want it to be because I'm freaking out! I want everything going smoothly again."
Anyway I don't know if I proved you right or wrong, because all these comments are opinions based on things we've observed.
Anyway I'm going to get off YT and go do my laundry that I've been avoiding..... makes me too anxious. 😂
We each cope differently. Look at it neutrally. It's like expecting a fish out of water to stop having trouble breathing just because it's not in the water but then we go underwater for 5 min and the fish swimming underneath are all like "just swim! chill out!"😂
I've known I'm FA for quite some time, but still my jaw dropped at 7:08 where you talk about how this attachment style develops. I've never heard this mechanism explained so clearly, in a way that was so true to my own internal experiences that I was not able to articulate. I don't really have anything else to say, other than I can't believe I'm only learning of your channel now. Your videos will be tremendously helpful in my recovery, thank you very much!
Great video. My only concern is that even someone securely attached can develop anxious attachment patterns just from being in a relationship with someone who has fearful-avoidant tendencies. Something we should be talking about more in this context.
I think what you're saying here is that there is no place in this world for anxious avoidants and anxiety in their partners. That's maybe unrealistic. The truly securely attached partner would bin them fast leaving only those insecure/questioning and empathetic in the end.
Anxious avoidants beware: you will only attract empathic and slightly anxious/insecurity attached people 😢
And then soon enough, those anxious or codependent people realise that they deserve more than just breadcrumbs. They leave you and the avoidant reinforces their belief that being vulnerable will just get them hurt.
@@simonwilson7581
Yup. It justifies the idea that I should be alone.
The idea of disappointing anyone or hurting anyone devastates me
Good luck, finding secure people, who would like to invite unsecurely attached people into their lives.
You're incredible! Thank you for humanizing us when everyone else sees us as the villains 🙏
You are not a villain. You are worthy and these other villainous people need to get off their high horse and recognize relationships and love is not self serving. ❤
I'm a FA... and have been separated 2 times and divorced 2 times to the same AA after 28yr relationship.
I started EMDR, Ego state and attachment therapy for my untreated childhood CPTSD in 1/2022.
I agree, my relationship with my trauma therapist is helping me regulate my emotions while I integrate my subconscious parts (traumatized inner children- my triggers) flashbacks, etc!
My inner critic no longer plagues me into avoidant, toxic shaming behavior!
My nervous system is something I treat seriously... nurturing, caring for. To be honest my nervous system was never on my radar as something I had the capacity to regulate.
As I build resilience emotionally, neurologically I have the capacity to be aware with my behavior... I no longer let the inner children/ triggers "drive the bus" and sabotage my behavior via 4F (fight, flight, freeze, fawn) response.
As a result my bio kids are experiencing a father who is no longer extreme/toxic avoidant! As I manage my emotional regulation, I'm modeling that for them... maybe one day they will experience an integrated nervous system and be more securely attached!
🙏 namaste!
Yep, I like the way you progress Chris. This channel is going deep. I'm in a situation of post-breakup of a 14 years old relationship with FA, probably BPD. I lived through all these stuff you were talking about in this video, and it's absolutly makes sense.
The problem I see with avoidants is that in any healthy relationship it’s not ok to just avoid your partner (mine avoided me for 2 months) regardless of being fearful or not. Lack of communication and commitment will always result in the slow or fast destruction of a relationship
I agree, but as a FA it's so hard to describe, but we genuinely want a healthy relationship, but we just don't know what that means. My therapist says that I have experienced severe trauma throughout my life and every relationship has been abusive. This is because we don't know what a true relationship looks like, so we except breadcrumbs etc and think that's enough. Unfortunately we do tend to push the good guys away and I am a runner when things start to get serious. I have to stay in control of myself and this makes me feel out of control......I'm not a controlling person, it's just a control within myself. I'm still learning about myself and it is interesting, but communication is key and I'm working on that.
This was interesting research that confirms my own process. The only disagreement I have is that relationship with someone external is not required for healing. I have found with IFS a relationship within myself that serves as the only consistent and constant relationship in my life. That internal relationship is where my healing has been found as even the most trained and skilled therapists trigger my sense of safety.
I have sympathy for FA's, but this unfortunately isn't a solvable problem. As you pointed out, the numbers are growing and that's because the number of narcissists are also growing that create them in the first place.
Effective treatment for narcissism doesn't currently exist mainly because their brains are underdeveloped in specific regions like the area responsible for empathy. Without brain regenerative medicine, no amount of therapy can teach them empathy. Psychedelics can have a hugely positive impact on narcissists because of their ego dissolution properties, but again, it isn't permanent. A profound experience doesn't trump existing brain damage.
Personally, I think it's too late for society, particularly America, because the issue has went misunderstood for far too long. Eventually, there will be more narcissists than non-narcissists. Over the past few years there's been a very obvious rise in their numbers and a "coming to power" if you will. The normals not understanding and being apathetic has doomed us all. You can't treat a society that thinks they're perfect while the other half ignorantly idolizes them.
This is a very negative view which is likely your own subjective experience. In that I empathise but you cannot make huge generalisations.
People are people are people, (individuals with unique experiences) not labels in my view x
What are your qualifications to make such a damning, absolute claim? Do you have specific academic literature to cite that supports your argument?
@@veronicalagor4771 Experience and common sense.
I think that the comment about lack of empathy may have been from someone dealing with a narcissist, All narcissists are avoidant but not all avoidant types are narcissists. I think there is a lot of confusion when dealing with an avoidant because of the similar traits with narcissists. The tell is the lack of empathy. If they care for no one but themselves, you have your answer.
lots of narcs are more caring than a stupid useless person
Guys! I got my FA Ex back after 3 months of no contact, stay motivated feel free to ask me about any detail, I'll try to answer you with my poor english.
Don't lose hope guys
@@musicallife3981 she dumped me for no reason, a classic FA/BPD behavior
I didn't beg or drag at all, went straight into no contact, she jumped into a rebound soon after, she tried to hide it but my friends found out and told me, I was sad but did not react. I still believe what I meant to her and she will eventually find out
I only posted two story in the whole no contact process, one is a baseball game I went to, and the other is about the new job get after we broke up, then I get rid of all the social media
She contact me after two months
Thank you for your positivity 🧘🏽♀️
She blocked me a month ago & I feel like there is no hope.
Wow! Thank you for this. I am new to really diving deep into attachment theory. I initially thought I was fearful avoidant, but then started thinking I was dismissive avoidant because independence is such a prominent feature in my life. Then I just took Thais Gibson’s test and result was fearful avoidant, so I wasn’t sure what to think. This video and the research you present does so much to clarify this for me. Part of what threw me off was the idea that chaos in a family of origin was what often leads to fearful avoidant and I didn’t think of my family as chaotic but more emotionally unavailable/neglectful, but this explains what “chaos” can actually mean as far as attachment theory goes. I unfortunately had sexual abuse thrown in the mix and got into a physically/emotionally/sexually abusive relationship in college and I think all of this sort of put me off relationships, except I always sort of held out hope that a good one would come along eventually. I’m now in my 50s and haven’t given up but I will say the decrease in hormones helps one care about romantic relationships a bit less and be much more level headed about these things. I’m now using what I’m learning to seek out more appropriate people for both friendships and maybe one day a core relationship. Wish this had all been around when I was much younger but happy it’s here now! I will continue to learn but this has helped me see that FA likely is my predominant attachment style and I can move forward with this knowledge.
One question thought - the video made it seem like FA is the same a borderline personality disorder. Is this correct? From what I’ve read, I don’t think this is true, but if you (or someone else) sees this question would love clarification.
Awesome channel!
It is NOT the same. Though the two conditions can share some traits. From what I heard if you are FA, it is more common to also have BPD, CPTSD or other conditions but it is definitely not a rule.
Im a fearful avoidant… slowly becoming more secure. I feel the swinging but yeah im mostly avoidant. As soon as the discussion moves towards entering a relationship, I feel panic in my chest and all I can think about is run away. But when someone doesn’t respond to my affection or desire to move closer, I feel panic that Im going to be abandoned. If there is no assurance when im being vulnerable, I flip out and sabotage.
Thank you for addressing this comment war. I noticed that in the comments under videos of other attachment theory channels: avoidant haters are prevalent. And once I has written a comment sharing my FA experience, like the video has encouraged me, and got blame in the comment. I don't hesitate to block and all, but why is that? I haven't noticed a sign 'AP only' anywhere, and not sure those people are even AP. They often share stories that look more like having a narcissist or antisocial ex, which is traumatising experience indeed.
I appreciate you because this is the only way WE can heal.
I see the comments and I always cringe because DAs and FAs are not bad people. And they are not going to be able to check off the standards we have, especially for the “ narcissistic “ women running around in modern times.
I know I most likely am going to get some heat for this comment but this is how I feel.
No one can speak their truth without fear or judgement.
I am dealing with a situation with what we call a DA. I haven’t watched the video yet so he might be a FA.
Interesting thing I want to share here is I’ve had people say to me- without knowing context that “he’s not a real man”, “he’s not into you “, “he’s seeing someone else”.
He is just different. He is an amazing man -he is just not a cookie cutter off the shelf dude and that’s why I fell in love with him.
The only thing helping me is other men sharing their story because it helps me not only understand his perspective; because you already know he’s not good with words when it comes to anything of significance in regards to himself.
This absolutely frustrated me - but unlike ANY man I’ve ever been with he gave me the most genuine apology for his behavior.
He has shown up for me unlike most men who are “normal” in very significant ways.
I don’t hate him, I love him and hopefully will get to learn more about him if we are successful in maintaining our connection.
I also want to end my rant with….
The dating pool is tainted.
It is tainted with egotistical, self- centered individuals who believe everything has to be their way and think people are easily discarded; further perpetuating these issues the avoidants are experiencing.
We all can learn something so we can be more compassionate towards others and stop being dismissive when he doesn’t check a box. ❤
nice work. tks for putting in the effort and undemonizing the polarizing issues.
The last 5 minutes were brilliant. The only thing I would add is the “wrong” therapist might not be really sailing you into calm waters.
Sam vaknin who is at the forefront of most of this stuff basically says therapy is useless
@tony
I've listened to Vaknin for many years and don't remember ever hearing him say that.
I believed he is supportive of Dialectical Behavioural Therapy (DBT).
Would you please provide titles or urls to the videos in which he say this, please?
he did a video about it recently and even so in all his videos he says get away from narcissists and go no contact, therapy for a narcissist is practically impossible and they end up telling the therapist they dont know what they are doing@@OakleyANDSittingBull
otto kernberg also said its a terrible idea @@OakleyANDSittingBull
Well this explains somethings especially the bit about learning to rely so much on ourselves. It's so bad that I get irritated when I see people who need support all the time because in my head I'm like can't you just do this thing by yourself. But ofcourse the reality of this is that we never had sage enough people around us to develop secure attachment where healthy dependence and connection were fostered. I weep for younger me. She really was let down by her environment and caregivers but I also salute her for fighting so hard to survive 😯😯
Thank you Chris Seiter 🙏🏼 I really appreciate you and your content.
soooooooooooo true for me. as a matter of fact, so ballistically true i thought i was anxious preoccupied because of how alarm bells insane i got with one person. it was so shocking and unbelievable i was like, this must be it. the big fat avoidance was absolutely eclipsed and i could not see it. was completely unconscious but my real true actual baseline is literally super avoidant which i was completely blind to. like even though i knew full well that i "play tough girl" and aloof. but it didnt even connect i was uncomprehending.
i was always so perplexed by coworkers gossiping im like an 'ice queen' ... when in reality i mostly hermetically seal myself away from others to keep the treacherous emotions inside top secret under wraps.. sheesh
We would much appreciate you make another video as complete as this one about the other types of attachment styles! Thanks for the insights!!!
It's also important to point out that borderline personality disorder and Fearful Avoidant attachment aren't mutually exclusive. You can be a fearful avoidant and not have BPD.
You are completely correct. My ex stayed around to the same person who made her like this. And you can’t heal in the environment that made you sick. If after therapy they go backthe their life with the same people, that will undo everythhing.
I absolutely love your channel. Keep it up!
GREAT VIDEO chRIS this is my first time watching but what a great video to watch
I think there is some confusion about what she said regarding therapy and narcissism. She said NPD like BPD is not treated with meds but therapy, and that is true. She didn't say it is successfully treated that way very often, only that drugs are useless.
A quick search indicates some Ns do benefit from therapy, though not many.
I’m anxious and I’m having a hard time coping when my avoidant guy pulls away. I try to give him the space he needs, and focus on myself and trying to become more secure…but I’m just in so much pain constantly. It’s been weeks
Keep doing the work on you! Love an FA leaning secure! 🤗
imagine his crusty noe nails and him f arting
@@darthvadersmom1192 he has really nice toenails
It took me a while to come to the conclusion that I’m fearful avoidant. For the longest time I thought I had anxious attachment because I was preoccupied with the times I felt I’ve been abandoned by partners. I’ve always had a very hard time moving in when I was dumped.
What I didn’t see what all the times I had pushed people away, because I wasn’t so upset by those situations at the time. But I almost always end up regretting when I break up with someone.
Years later, I revisit exes whose hearts I’ve broken and wish I had done things differently.
I have a fearful avoidant style and my big brother has a secure attachment style. This is just another one of the many reasons that supports the notion that he is always my favorite person.
I am FA, I read comments like avoid avoidants at all costs/…/ I think we avoid cause we fear others can hurt us so we don’t want hurt them as a result we leave. I was alarming my need before it wasn’t really met, then person just triggered my fearful side and I reacted pretty much like default- I’m out, I’m leaving… yes I do regret it. This person loves me but cannot be with me because of me acting like that. Yes I reached out for help.
In my opinion I believe it has a lot to do with self awareness. Like you said a avoident needs help to be brought to calm waters. But avoidents are not very self aware and for sure not existintially aware.
As you were pointing out they get help from a therapist and then go back to their life where people are constantly trying to destabalize them for control over them. In this light they are simply going with the motions and no real problem solving happens.
In my opinion they mist be brought to a place of awareness before they can stop allowing others to control their reactions. It is my belief that humans will refute, avoid, or attack anything that contradicts their beliefs until they become self and existentially aware. So the overall means to the goal I believe must be changed.
The issue is not everyone can be brought to self and/or existential awareness. A lot of people go insane during the proccess and others simply cannot grasp or will instinctially avoid it due to the fact they built their entire lives and all the power of control in it based off these things they believe. This in essence is possibly why therapy simply cannot help everyone. Some people just want to keep living in that fantasy world where they are the main character and others are simply incapable intelectually. It is quite the conundrum.... perhaps not everyone can be helped at the end.
it really feels like avoidants are hurting you over and over again on purpose. and its really unfair that upon breakup they feel good... while us anxious feel like we are going to die
That’s very fascinating that the fearful attachment style went up so markedly post lockdowns. Makes a lot of sense actually.
I'm a fearful 😅 I have such an isolated life😢 people who need me or are needy I feel sophicated. If I feel unwanted I get needy. It's exhausting. So I push people out. Few people can handle the roller coaster . Takes patients and Hella lot of love and acceptance of me messiness to gain my trust
Thank you so much for the insight..
I'm FA. My first husband was an NPD avoidant. He really broke my heart. Second husband is probably somewhere between FA and secure. We struggle but I've healed a lot with him, and therapy. I definitely still want to run sometimes when my abandonment wound gets triggered but thankfully he has never given up on me and we have become more and more stable over the years as we strive for greater self awareness. It's hard and sometimes I really don't want to look in the mirror to face some obscure wounded part that's still hiding, but it's worth it.
Thank you, Chris. Thank you.
TRUE, if you still got the toxic parents and friends you will undo everything you learned
This is Pure Gold !
Well this was the best! Thank you.
I think this is just too new of a study to give up on Avoidants. I know one who is an amazing person. At first I took it personally thinking I must have done something wrong but after researching this, it is a relief to me that it was never really who I am at all. It is about awareness and education on the psychology of the developmental stages and is there anything that can be done after the damage has already been done to the child. I look forward to more studies.
As a former Sailor, the Caribbean Sea is quite rough ;)
But I do understand what it is that you're saying. It really helped me to get better in going from FA to secure.
There's a lot of push and pull with FAs, but it can actually be kind of fun once you get use to the way they operate. A woman I'm trying to date (we both take a friends-first approach so we're still navigating actual dating) has a pattern: If I'm not clingy and take a couple days to myself, she pays me way more attention and usually initiates contact. Then I'll pay more attention to her and reassure her that I'm interested so she doesn't get anxious that I'll leave, but then I stop myself there until she pays me more attention. FAs are a good type of person to date if you're busy or preoccupied. It lets you have your own life while still being committed.
I agree. No one should be demonized. I don't believe there is anyone who is perfectly adjusted. We ALL need understanding and help.
If you are talking about covert narcassists good luck fixing them and anyone that has dealt with one then the only thing to do is get away from them and let some one else deal with them
says who? they dont even see you eligible to fix anything what a joke. you wanna fix others bc you are the narc, we're just entertained you calling us names like that, its cute
@@darthvadersmom1192 who's a narc
I hope one day you can look back on this comment and cringe.
@@veronicalagor4771 no not at all because what i am saying is a fact
after lifetime being bullyed after covid I can tell my isolation have started and I still cannot see the end of that I really became avoidant
Phenomenal video!
As a borderline individual who spent years in therapy and is considered healed, I would agree that the relationship between the therapist and the client is very important but not necessary just because it's a secure relationship. But because you're in a better headspace to take in the information given in therapy when the waters are calm. The same information could be given from two therapists, one you have a good relationship with and one you don't. The information from the one your don't trust won't be trusted as it comes in. So, in my opinion from my experience, I'd say it's both ❤
Thanks for the video
Your title should say fearful avoidant, I was expecting a video on DA’s. As a FA I could have told you that we swing to our avoidant side more 😂
I’m just learning about this stuff and I am fearful avoidant unfortunately. This has helped me understand so much of my past relationships. I wish I could flip a switch and just be ok and secure. I don’t want to live like this. 😭😭😭 God help me please 🙏🏼 I don’t want to hurt and I don’t want to hurt anyone else. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
This gave me hope
Wow. This is what I can’t afford to learn through therapy. Thank you sooooo much🙏🏾
FA here...I have noticed that if something triggers the abandonment wound, my first unconscious response is to run away and disappear. Secondly it comes the anxious response and then again the avoidant response
I didn’t want to hear this, since DA’s seem to be the most maligned attachment style, but it actually makes a lot of sense and tracks with my personal experience. Incidentally, the past few weeks/months I’ve been coming to terms with my avoidant side, and realizing just how strong it is. Now I understand the problem tho I can work on it. I’ve been avoiding my avoidance and if that doesn’t vindicate this study I don’t know what does lol
The first part of this video about the study results is suuuuuper interesting, but I really wish fearful avoidance had not been conflated with borderline personality disorder. While many with BPD may also have FA attachment style, they are very far from being one and the same thing. Also, the idea that BPD and FA go together actually contradicts the study results, because BPD is FAR more associated with a core fear of abandonment than anything else, making it more likely to be associated with anxious-leaning attachment styles, whereas according to this study fearful avoidance is more characterized by avoidance than anxiousness, and has far more in common with the dismissive avoidant attachment style than it has with anxious-preoccupied attachment style.
Also, rising anxiety/depression/ADHD rates do not automatically indicate higher rates of fearful avoidant attachment styles. There can be many reasons why those conditions exist/develop, many of which have nothing to do with attachment style.
That said, thank you for making a video about that study. As a partially healed FA myself, the way that FAs are described in that study tracks pretty seamlessly with my experience as an FA.
@chris, highly highly recommend advocating for more parenting programs. Nurse Family Partnership is an amazing program for first-time moms. Dad's also should have access to Dad only parenting programs.
You said you wanted to be a part of the solution and this is it. Nurse Family Partnership works with moms from pregnancy until their babies Turn 2 years old. We actually talk to Mom's about attachment, brain development, etc.
Knowledge is the first step in Breaking the cycle.
As an avoidant, I grew up not knowing what a single secure attachment feels like for all of my life. Every secure attachment would be soon cut off by my family. My friendships ended because either they were just not the right people and would make the wounds worse or because of my own fears and avoidant behavior. I had and still have very deep trust issues, but I hate the part of myself that avoids and detaches to cope, because it screams to me to distance myself rather than be betrayed or eventually abandoned. When people dehumanize people like me, they don’t understand that a lot of people like me have grew without that feeling of safety and being secure, either because it was just the case or because of self sabotage that is not conscious. We didn’t choose to have these sort of coping mechanisms. My needs were just never met when young or I was constantly blamed for expressing emotions and having needs.
It wasn’t until recent years that I finally found secure enough friendships that stayed even when I retreated and avoided them, and that was only in my mid to late twenties that it happened. Some people haven’t found that yet, but I hope everyone can find that in their lives,
So they can learn what healthy relationships are like, and can heal and learn to function normally.
Is there a link or a name of the study I could reference? I would like to read the whole Study!
Exactly...i m secure and always tried to give space and understand my FA partner...I m also kind of teraphist, psykolog and work with relation between people.He did nt even wanna try to figure out his issues and now finally he kontakt somebody...when i think he developed borderline ..and fight with depression and so.I dont want to spend my time anymore with him since he did nt took my advices in so many years
19:00 thats easy for you to say.... where are all the secure ppl?? LOL
I've seen this too. How about we don't judge an entire group of people because of one shared aspect of their personality? Attachment doesn't account for morality, empathy, etc. and ALL insecure attachment styles have instances of lacking empathy in reacting to their triggers (and secure attachments might as well in times of trauma). Anxious reactions can lack empathy as well, I.e. repeated boundary violations. No end of the spectrum is better or worse, it's the actual behavior involved and we should all strive for balance. It's not black and white and no attachment style alone makes a person good or bad, just healthy or unhealthy.
I think I am not hating my fearful-avoidant husband for several reasons: 1. I had some of the experience like him in the childhood, so I do have empathy; 2. I also have some avoidant traits and I had even more in the past, but I learnt to be different and trust him in our relationship, do yes, I can confirm that attachment style develops and changes in the relationship; 3. We have a child now ourselves, so I know hiw hard it is ti do the right thing as a parent. Also my in-laws are extremely toxic people, and my husband the only child,so I do know as a fact, that his behaviour is the only way of communication that helped him to survive.
Childhood trauma (small T trauma) is the culprit, lack of education on what constitutes trauma and what behaviours from caregivers result in attachment wounds could make a dramatic difference for future populations, but the realities of war, famine, accident, illness, natural disaster - these ensure that even if perfect parenting were possible across the board, trauma will always exist, which in turn has the potential to become generational small t trauma.
Sounds to me like the ones demonizing avoidants are the anxious, oftentimes calling themselves secure in order to avoid genuinely looking at themselves. They despise in the avoidant that part in themselves that they deem wrong and counterintuitive to connection. Every insecure attachment style does that but unlike the avoidant who internalizes , the anxious need to externalize and vocalize their feelings so, it makes sense that they would do that.. but overall an insecure attachment style is subconscious, we can hate it all we want, blaming someone for theirs is absurd and only reflects what's hidden about ourselves imo. When we truly understand something, negativity drops. The concept just appears as it is. We feel neutral about it.
I have an FA ex who is posting content in his “close friends” story and we haven’t removed each other from that yet… it’s been 2 weeks of almost zero contact / initiation from me but he clearly misses me, watches all my stories and then doing that is a kind of way of reaching out. Should I watch it or not? Not in a rush but trying to discern how to show that I do not want to he friends and I will move on if he does not repair the relationship… but also not wanting to ignore him or appear cold or closed.
So where do we find these secure people? I don't think I have any in my life
I think i am a FA
I feel awful anxiety and look for clues my partner will leave me... At the same time feeling scared of living together... I tend to fall in love every 2 years, just after the end of the honeymoon period... Im always attracted to long distant or emotionaly unavilable partners...
Im so glad i saw your video - i almost was ready to leave my lovely boyfriend just now, because i started feeling the butteflies are gone... Somehow realizing this made me value this relationship again...
Wtf? Why would any healthy individual base their relationship decision on feeling butterflies? It's terrible indicator
Please put the link to study in the description
As a person who is fearful attached...i don't appreciate the level animosity towards us.
Would someone who loves an a dismissive or fearful avoidant, have to give up themselves to continue to love these people?
From my experience, fearfully avoidants avoid feeling bad. They are carrying around such heavy baggage that they are already overwhelmed. Feeling bad helps us to be good people. So when you avoid feeling bad you're avoiding being a good person. Once I understood that all my anger left me.
In other words, avoiding the consequences of their behavior. In my situation, apologies and taking accountability could have gone a long way to patching things up but my FA ex decided to suffer and make me suffer too instead. Makes no sense logically.
I spent thousands of hours reseaching, trying to understand my Fearful Avoidant partner (who also suffers from BPD / Vulnerable Narcissism traits). I will agree that villainising those with Avoidant tendencies does not help (even if the information and criticisms presented are all factually true). Being understanding and compassionate towards Avoidants is EXTREMELY difficult though when one has been hurt by those Avoidant behaviors, so this is a challenging ask.
Man, most of the people that demonize FA and DA's are AP. As much as they criticise others they don't see any harm they do. Obviously all the insecure attached people should work on themselves, INCLUDING APs. They only see people leaving them and being emotionless but never see how clingy and demanding they are on a daily basis. Maybe instead of criticizing others for being too self reliant just try to deal with life on your own a bit more as well? Or don't date DA and FA's, go for APs and see how wonderful it will go. 🤷🏽♀️
Agree totally
I was tip-toeing being between FA and a dismissive avoidant with anxious traits. Well turns it was Fearful avoidance all along.
On the note on empathy I feel it is part of a) not receiving empathy from caregivers consistently and b) showing empathy requires both parties to be vulnerable. It is hard to show empathy consistently when you haven't received it on a constant or reliable basis which in turn makes us cold since we learned to cope and blame/shame ourselves. At the same time we want to receive empathy and give it because it enhances the connection to others BUT then it either gets too scary (vulnerability wound) or we don't receive what we wanted (empathy or connection). These then negatively reinforce empathy.
If you have an FA in your life and you are wondering if you want to keep them, my tip is that are they self aware of their pendulums and can they vocalize their needs. After that we need time and safety. If we go avoidant, just go with your normal lives and just check-in on us. Do not go over the mountains when we are avoidant. Make us see that you don't abandon us without making a big number of it. Same with anxious side. When we go anxious, give us reassurance or some reassurance, some grounding that we need and continue. I do think that you should not be the one fixing FA but it should be the FA themselves. You can only help.
Also for the love of god, when we are vulnerable do not make fun of us or try to pry too much. And when we ask for help, please give the help we want or outright say that you can't give us that help. Saying that you will help us but then fading or giving us the "wrong" help is at least a part of the reason I turned out FA and it feeds avoidance. It's always better to be honest than say yes and not deliver.
"Wrong" help?
Every damn time I mention being afraid of being controlled, somebody tries to rip me a new one. That's happened twice just today!! (not here). I get called evil because I don't want to get swallowed up?? I am totally baffled by the open aggression. These people hate me!