science my arse! this raises my hackles in all "scientific" senses. I do have to admit that nfor both samples, I was impressed at their durability. But yeah as @user-um2zs4sb6rv said, be good to actually use fibreglass to the same weight.
regarding bubbles. I used to attach oil paintings on canvas to masonite. I used carpenters glue. The first one I ever attached got bubbles because I used too much glue and it was uneven. After making sure the glue was a thin even layer and using a rolling pin to apply pressure I never got any more bubbles.
this video made me dump lots of time into making pmf campers, this last run i have so much confidence in pmf Im going lazy and coating the outside of an rv with pmf. thank you so much you have a lifetime sub from me
I bet you could make a nice lightweight boat out of that. Or a truck topper. Or an ice chest. Or a garden shed. Or a pickup tonneu cover. Or...or... a lot of things!
I was thinking a she shed for me. If it can withstand highway speeds, it should withstand the wind around here. Just deciding what kind of framework for it.
I would surmise the reason the Cannes had more deflection is due to the fact the chances was applied without stretching. You stated when you applied the sheet you stretched it pretty tight which would basically be preloading it with stress as compared to the canvas being applied without stretching the fibers. Instead of the bed sheet I think an interesting combination would be first layer covered with Fiberglass window screening with the canvas over that. The way it was is impressive but I wonder if the inexpensive window screening would reduce the flexing or if it’s inability to stretch would cause it to fail. Just some thoughts.
Your tests were sufficient to answer all of my questions about PMF building. Thank You. I have to admit, the video could have been made in about 1/2 the time you took. I would recommend you either continue to make "Testing Videos" or see the networks for an audition for being a game show host...one or the other. :>)
Another benefit to PMF is easy repair - If you scratch or dent standard car paint it takes a bit of expertise and finesse to make an invisible repair - with the rough surface of PMF repairs will blend in much easier. * Always keep in mind that paint can change hue as it cures - If you have something a few years old that you touch up with the exact same paint - it can stand out like a sore thumb for a month or two until the spot cures and blends.
@@lukeFugate - scratches a nicks in paint would, of course be no problem. But even punctures and dents would be easy (I think). Use some kind of filler, or bondo, to patch and, before it sets, use a piece of canvass to imprint the texture on the patch before painting.
You answered a lot of my questions about using PMF for my bike camper I'm going to start building in January. I'm sure you stressed it more then anything I could do to it. I wonder how much of a difference using different formula insulation would make, 150, 250, 400, 500, and 600. I'm sure building anything with 400 or better will create some amazing results for people. I'm glad I came across your channel while researching PMF. Thank you for the testing you did.
I have used muslin and glue for “Dutchman” seams on theatre set designs, on a wood frame. I think that muslin would work even better than canvas or bed sheets. The only question I have is was the canvas and bedsheets washed and dried before using to prevent shrinking or if maybe shrinking would help tighten the cloth to the substrate? Muslin is very inexpensive and comes in wide enough widths that you can do large walls without seams.
I would rather see a stress test with dropping weight on it, bending weight to breakage, how much weight to pull the fabric off. I am more interested in the structural integrity, rigidity.
you prolly dont care but if you are bored like me atm you can watch all of the new movies on InstaFlixxer. Been watching with my brother for the last couple of days :)
Great video. What a riot! I would like to make a camper for my motorcycle out of PMF because it's light weight. Now I know it's durable too. It's good to know it would stand up to getting run over by a bus, but I'll try to avoid that.
Have you washed the bedsheet with degreeser? When new there is a waxy coating and also a littlebit waxy coating when washed with washing soap for clothes. I wonder how to prevent these bubles.
That's amazing cool thing!!! Titebond Wood glue (we have analogue here PVA D3 wood glue - also strong and waterproof) and canvas... amazing! is it necessary to put it over _styrofoam_ only or other infill materrials (cardboard maybe, or plywood, or drywall) possible? is it possible to use not canvas but maybe _other textile types_ ? I have "crazy idea" to build bicycle (frame and even wheels maybe) or maybe possible even velomobile using cardboard (many layers) and PMF over it. What do you think? Is it possible? :-)
It occurred to me watching the food trailer update that the panels could possibly be used in place of the 2x4s in that trailer. They hold up pretty good on the flat, but you didn't test them on the edge. I suggest you find something that can actually measure how much force is being applied. I may suggest it as a test for Matthias Wendall.
Sorry, the trike fell by the wayside because of legal issues getting it titled. My thoughts were to use thinner pieces of foam insulation which would bend. Might have to make relief cuts in places to form compound bends, but it would be doable. Could also double up on the fabric and glue layers to make it stronger.
In my latest videos I have started working on it again. I got too busy with other projects and it got pushed back into the weeds. Here is a link to the video where I decide to revive the project. ruclips.net/video/0p1VbEKknFE/видео.html
have you done any tests for compression? Like if you built a cabinet and the sides were made up of foam with PMF coating. How strong do you think it would be?
Haven't done anything like that. I would assume that as long as you build a wood frame for the cabinet and a wood bottom to hold the weight, it should work well.
It was Rustoleum blue here is a link to it www.hardwareworld.com/pec0q0t/High-Performance-Protective-Enamel-Safety-Blue-Gallon?gclid=Cj0KCQjw_ez2BRCyARIsAJfg-ktVGlsQZgnQU6M8RAJFiTpCLScJb7-uWbQJd3JT-wrrnzBAqKJ98k4aAi_hEALw_wcB
Fiberglas on Plywood is more to use a Material (Plywood) which does Not call for precise and Energy excessive Bonding Like metal and make a baselayer (Epoxy-resin + Fiberglas) for further waterproofing (gelcoat, which protects the Epoxy from damage thru UV-light). The stiffness of 2 Plates of multilayered Fiberglas and Plywood or foam as Core is already in 2 different classes. Plywood with it's Natural wood cement "lignine" is stronger regarding vertical pressure than many foam/foam-cores. If Something is stiff by the Plates (Fiberglas) and it (wooden Core) is less stiff than the Plates the strenght as tension flange is still there but less important. The resistence against pressure is important for stiffness. A wooden-core of an alpine-ski is a combination of Plywood-like structures and cross-grained wood. The Flex vs. Torsion-stiffness is the Art of engineering there. A compound with wooden Core is not easy to outperform. The structure of Balsa Wood If you Look on the cross-grained surfaces in a microscope the Structures is another solution by the Nature compared to honeycomb-structure. Like honeycomb the Walls created by Cellulose and cemented by lignine stand vertical. As lignine fills the structure you can Bond Balsa cross-grained wood to e.g. Canvas even better than e.g. Nomex-/Kevlar-/Aramide honeycomb-core Material to Fiberglas or Carbon-Plates. More or less prepreg-concept is the only way to Bond Fiberglas/Carbon Plates with Aramide-honeycomb-cores. As Tidebond also can handle cross-grained wood "the poor man's" compound based on Canvas and wooden Core Out of "Cross grained Wood" is realizeable. Balsa is very light but has very weak robustness against moisture. There are other wood-types Not too heavy while offering better robustness against moisture. Regarding the waterproofing it should be easy repairable by easy overpainting and patching. Something which is Not topped with Tidebond and painted with Latex from the First layer can Not been easy repaired or overpainted. If you dilute Brantho-Korrux 3-in-1 it's even penetrating uncovered Canvas. Last Layers with Iron mica Colours of Brantho-Korrux 3-in-1 give thicker Layers of Paint. Brantho-Korrux 3-in-1 and Brantho Korrux Gas-/Petrol-resistant are developed for Off-Shore applications and have an approval by the German Railways. Brantho-Korrux Gas-/Petrol-resistant is less flexible. E.g. Not flexible enough for overpainting the glue filled gaps at the metal-skin of an light commercial Vehicle Like the Chrysler Van based on the Fiat Ducato (>= 3.5 Ton Class LCV). At Caravans and Mobilehomes there are areas kept uncovered so that the wood can breath. This areas you can Paint with filtered and aged linseedoil and linseedoil based painting. Wood then can still breath but is hydrophobious treated. There even exist linseedoil based Iron mica painting. www.kreidezeit.de/en/product/rust-protection-paint/ That would be for edges and Not the areas where the wood should breath Well. If you Work with linseedoil the wood should Not been covered with Canvas or other textile as linseedoil then let selfinflame the textiles. It even can selfinflame the brushes and other soaked Tools.
The insulation and other logistics of fitting the chosen material with all the things even just a hobby project would need almost sounds like a nightmare in ways.. But you'll find a way; you always do.
Before fiberglass the nacent rec boating industry and new England lobster fishermen used pmf over wood decks wnd superstructure (not boat hull) because it was more durable than paint or varnish that required regular maintenance and replacement between 1-3 years in New England weather depending on use intensity.... Pmf lasted longer but still required maintenance and periodic replacement... Just not as often, plus it gave a nonskid surfaces for decks (we are talking 1920-1960 or so
Sorry question was to early watched the whole video. Great Video. Just what I was looking for, going to build hollow pontoons and cover them with PMF thanks again.
My problem (among many others that I will leave out here) is that the pontoon would not be PMF'd on both sides. The tube skin would not be stiff against external force. It is the _inner_ skin, on the side away from any force, that provides most of the stiffness, as it it is stressed in stretch (tension). The exterior skin is stressed in bending force only and is very weak in that way.
I’ve seen quite a few of these videos and am impressed with pmf. But what I’m really curious about is the crush strength- would it hold up to being walked on regularly or would it crush and delam? …Like on the roof of my boat I’m building. Any experiences or thoughts would be appreciated!
I don't know if you've used it yet or not, I would go with 1/4 inch plywood under at least a formula 400 or better and then another 1/4 inch piece of plywood. You would have a nice foam cored piece that could stand up to people walking on it without damaging it. The 400 is 40 psi per square inch.
@@TenSpeed2007 That sounds way over needed spec. It would be very heavy and expensive, just to walk on. Foam core is based on very thin skin on a low density, light core.
@@lukeFugate Yeah, I guess it would just be a difference in material you're using then. I don't know enough about this stuff and am just watching videos and planning build. Getting different ideas. This just seems like it would be soooo much lighter.
There are other posts where people have just done just this. One commented that his boat sat on top of his car all the time, all types of weather, and had not suffered. What may be most important here is actually exterior paint over the top. No structural addition, but huge UV protection.
On a science note, both or all of the test subjects should have been identical sizes. The weight test wasn't fair as the sheet board is twice is wide thus stronger from the start. Like comparing a 2x6 to a 2x12 in that test. I've seen other videos regarding the bubbles in the bed sheets, seems the issue is that once the sheet is wet is holds air/water (remember in scouts when you used pants legs as a flotation device, get them wet and they hold air because the water seals up the tight weave.) I'm curious of the PMF... I tried something a year back didn't didn't do well... that was canvas and fiberglass resin(sets to fast and absorbs a lot of resin). Debating and comparing between using paint and titebond II as the glue. Paint would be much cheaper as a glue.
Theres a guy who has a RUclips channel that builds campers. He's building a truck camper and he uses poor mans fiberglass on his camper builds. He uses bed sheets, he has a technique that keeps the sheet looking good, no bubbles. He also said the bedsheets are a smoother finish then the canvas. Anyways you may want to look for his channel to get some ideas of how to PMF. I can't remember his name or channel, just type in the search bar DIY campers and may want to try searching DIY campers builds with PMF Im sure you can find him. His bedsheets PMF turned out really nice. The videos I seen he was building a truck bed slide in camper....
My theory of why u have air bubbles with the bed sheet is that the bed sheet may have fabric properties that does not allow the paint to fully adhere or absorb to the bed sheet fabric whereas the painters cloth does adhere or absorb to the paint. Interesting experiment Luke. The painters fabric did not hold up so well under scrutiny of the twisting of Zephyr front tire...perhaps the roughness of the painters fabric with the paint, and the bed sheet fabric held up the Best under the scrutiny of the twisting of Zephyr front tire...perhaps the smoothness of the bedsheet fabric and the paint with the air bubbles. I do like the idea of the combination of painters Fabric & bedsheet fabric. I might add that u may always have a problem with air bubbles...with the bedsheet fabric...the paint & the bed sheet properties are not balanced enough to make it without air bubbles as the properties of the painters fabric and the paint. Sorry...😞😞 as my usual writing ✍️ is FULL of Emojis 😂😂👍🏼 🧰✂️ 📐📏😀😀👍🏼.. I wrote without them above 😜😜🤪
I didn't originally think either one would survive Zephyr running over them. It's a stronger material than I thought. I think I will try the bed sheet and painters cloth as a composite material. I will try a small piece to see, and if the bubbles make a reappearance I will just go with the painters cloth alone.
@@lukeFugate I need it for sleep platform 20inches wide and various other interior bulkheads and cabinets I can also get 1/4 inch plywood cheap cheap cheap Also part of my build will include removable boards that can double as miter saw and table saw tables. If the pmf strengthen that well. Maybe 1/2 " tho
It doesn't appear to me that you are comparing Apples to Apples the pieces are not the same size allowing the larger size disperse the weight differently in the smaller one
Great video, hilarious and instructional. I am thinking of building a camper. So PMF is the way to go. You should apply for a job with National Institute of Standards and Technology.
I think the sheet did just as good as the other. No one is going to let a bus run over there camper or what ever they make out of it. I'm going to make me a tiny home out of foam and use either the canvas clothe or even a sheet for the outside and inside to give it the strength it needs. So I guess tight bond glue won't eat through the foam. I'm going to try and make it and 8 ft by 12 ft or maybe even go 16 ft tiny home to pull behind my car. I love doing stuff like this. Thank you for your info. God bless 🙏💞🙏
I was impressed with the pmf during the entire test, but worried about the bad noise coming from your steering system on the bus. You might want to test the bus more.
@@lukeFugate so I was thinking of skinning a 5x7 deer blind in 2inch foam, then pmf all the way around. The floor would be 2x4 base topped with 1/2 plywood. Wall frames would be 2x2 lumber. Think be rigid enough once wrapped in pmf?
The only video I've seen of any one taking an engineering mindset and actually testing this stuff to see how it would hold up over time. Rather than a it looks like fibreglass, it smells like fibreglass therefore it's the same approach. Interestingly with the current move towards forcibly turning everyone into a card carrying long haired sandal wearing hippy the composite industry is slowly moving towards natural fabric based composit materials.
Hey! :) Change "Duribility" in your title to "Durability" and I bet you'll get a TON of views. Sorry for the multiple comments. Just wanted to say this was rad.
that stuff is impressive, Im always amazed at how tough my toilet paper and paint props are and that pmf appears stronger. It looked like the rock that cut through the sheet hit with the edge but it hit the canvas a little flatter. Im looking forward to seeing how you design the body
Yes, they both surprised me. If I had realized they would be so tough, I would have come up with tougher tests. The last one was supposed to destroy them both.
@@lukeFugate what about using OSB plywood...the rough side. I've never tried it but seems like it would stick well. On smooth plywood I always sand it and then use a paper tiger to rough it up a bit more.
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i was thinking of building a deep sea submersible, but don't wanna spend $$$$$ on titanium. this looks like it'll be perfect!
Cruel… yet I laughed.
Neither did Ocean Gate. They used carbon fiber and look how that turned out
It would be interesting to have a regular fibre glass panel as a control or comparison.
This is fantastic backyard science. Especially all the different ways you tried to stress / damage the different materials. Great job man!
Glad you enjoyed it!
science my arse! this raises my hackles in all "scientific" senses. I do have to admit that nfor both samples, I was impressed at their durability. But yeah as
@user-um2zs4sb6rv said, be good to actually use fibreglass to the same weight.
@@JustMeBlindFreddy hehe BACKYARD science doesn’t adhere to such strict standards. :)
regarding bubbles. I used to attach oil paintings on canvas to masonite. I used carpenters glue. The first one I ever attached got bubbles because I used too much glue and it was uneven. After making sure the glue was a thin even layer and using a rolling pin to apply pressure I never got any more bubbles.
Great tip! I'll give it a try.
this video made me dump lots of time into making pmf campers, this last run i have so much confidence in pmf Im going lazy and coating the outside of an rv with pmf. thank you so much you have a lifetime sub from me
TRY WINDOW SCREEN . FOAM+SCREEN+FABRIC+PAINT. IN THAT ORDER AND INCREASED STRENGH.
I bet you could make a nice lightweight boat out of that. Or a truck topper. Or an ice chest. Or a garden shed. Or a pickup tonneu cover. Or...or... a lot of things!
Yeah, the possibilities are endless.
The limitation is only the joints.
Don't forget private jet
I was thinking a she shed for me. If it can withstand highway speeds, it should withstand the wind around here. Just deciding what kind of framework for it.
HAH! Several dozen RUclipsrs have not thought of this! "D
I would surmise the reason the Cannes had more deflection is due to the fact the chances was applied without stretching. You stated when you applied the sheet you stretched it pretty tight which would basically be preloading it with stress as compared to the canvas being applied without stretching the fibers.
Instead of the bed sheet I think an interesting combination would be first layer covered with Fiberglass window screening with the canvas over that.
The way it was is impressive but I wonder if the inexpensive window screening would reduce the flexing or if it’s inability to stretch would cause it to fail.
Just some thoughts.
Good point it would increase tensile strength.
Your tests were sufficient to answer all of my questions about PMF building. Thank You. I have to admit, the video could have been made in about 1/2 the time you took. I would recommend you either continue to make "Testing Videos" or see the networks for an audition for being a game show host...one or the other. :>)
Glad it helped! LOL game show host.
Lol
Thanks for the taking us on your research and simulation. Excellent!
Another benefit to PMF is easy repair - If you scratch or dent standard car paint it takes a bit of expertise and finesse to make an invisible repair - with the rough surface of PMF repairs will blend in much easier.
* Always keep in mind that paint can change hue as it cures - If you have something a few years old that you touch up with the exact same paint - it can stand out like a sore thumb for a month or two until the spot cures and blends.
Good point!
@@lukeFugate - scratches a nicks in paint would, of course be no problem. But even punctures and dents would be easy (I think). Use some kind of filler, or bondo, to patch and, before it sets, use a piece of canvass to imprint the texture on the patch before painting.
@@getlostgary9380 That would work well.
@@getlostgary9380 Not a lot of bondo needed. Just put a hairdryer or heatgun on lowest setting to it and the dents will just pop up again.
You answered a lot of my questions about using PMF for my bike camper I'm going to start building in January. I'm sure you stressed it more then anything I could do to it. I wonder how much of a difference using different formula insulation would make, 150, 250, 400, 500, and 600. I'm sure building anything with 400 or better will create some amazing results for people. I'm glad I came across your channel while researching PMF. Thank you for the testing you did.
Great test. This gave me the answers I’ve been looking for about how tough PMF is.
Its very tough. Thanks for watching.
Have you thought of trying PMF on real thick corrugated cardboard? Then there's the possibility of foam with cardboard facings.
It would be worth a try.
Exactly my thoughts as well, has anyone tried it yet?
this is the first video of yours that I have come across, Dude that C10 bed in the intro is the COOLEST thing i have ever seen in my life!
I have used muslin and glue for “Dutchman” seams on theatre set designs, on a wood frame. I think that muslin would work even better than canvas or bed sheets. The only question I have is was the canvas and bedsheets washed and dried before using to prevent shrinking or if maybe shrinking would help tighten the cloth to the substrate? Muslin is very inexpensive and comes in wide enough widths that you can do large walls without seams.
Thanks for the tip. I'll check it out.
I would rather see a stress test with dropping weight on it, bending weight to breakage, how much weight to pull the fabric off. I am more interested in the structural integrity, rigidity.
I may do a follow up video to this.
That was awesome Mr Fugate. It was a lot tougher than I thought it would be. Has always Liked,shared. All my best.
Thanks. It surprised me too.
This is valuable information. Especially since these are more realistic tests than a lab.
Glad You liked it.
Both of those seemed incredibly tough! At the start of your video I told the wife, you watch, he'll run over them with something, lol.
LOL you know me! I figured it would just disintegrate under the tires. I was way wrong.
you prolly dont care but if you are bored like me atm you can watch all of the new movies on InstaFlixxer. Been watching with my brother for the last couple of days :)
@Zayne Maxwell definitely, have been watching on instaflixxer for since november myself =)
The ATV reminded me of an old Timex watch commercial. It takes a lickin and keeps on tickin.
Yeah, it has been a good one. Not the prettiest, but it does the job.
Great video. What a riot! I would like to make a camper for my motorcycle out of PMF because it's light weight. Now I know it's durable too. It's good to know it would stand up to getting run over by a bus, but I'll try to avoid that.
Thanks! Yes, it would be great for that.
Have you washed the bedsheet with degreeser? When new there is a waxy coating and also a littlebit waxy coating when washed with washing soap for clothes. I wonder how to prevent these bubles.
Had not tried that. thanks for the info.
I wonder how well titebond 3 or landscape fabric would work in those applications
That would be a great experiment. It should be very tough.
That's amazing cool thing!!!
Titebond Wood glue (we have analogue here PVA D3 wood glue - also strong and waterproof) and canvas... amazing!
is it necessary to put it over _styrofoam_ only or other infill materrials (cardboard maybe, or plywood, or drywall) possible? is it possible to use not canvas but maybe _other textile types_ ?
I have "crazy idea" to build bicycle (frame and even wheels maybe) or maybe possible even velomobile using cardboard (many layers) and PMF over it. What do you think? Is it possible? :-)
Yes it can be done.
Please do this.
It occurred to me watching the food trailer update that the panels could possibly be used in place of the 2x4s in that trailer.
They hold up pretty good on the flat, but you didn't test them on the edge.
I suggest you find something that can actually measure how much force is being applied.
I may suggest it as a test for Matthias Wendall.
Nice scientific testing and gave me the giggles. Looks like both different types of PMF held up pretty well. 👍
Glad you enjoyed it. Yes they both surprised me.
Did you use it for the trike? I want to make a cover for the engine of my trike but how would you mould it to the shape you want?
Sorry, the trike fell by the wayside because of legal issues getting it titled. My thoughts were to use thinner pieces of foam insulation which would bend. Might have to make relief cuts in places to form compound bends, but it would be doable. Could also double up on the fabric and glue layers to make it stronger.
Luke, whatever happened to the trike? Looked for videos of it on your page, but there doesn't seem to be one.
In my latest videos I have started working on it again. I got too busy with other projects and it got pushed back into the weeds.
Here is a link to the video where I decide to revive the project. ruclips.net/video/0p1VbEKknFE/видео.html
have you done any tests for compression? Like if you built a cabinet and the sides were made up of foam with PMF coating. How strong do you think it would be?
Haven't done anything like that. I would assume that as long as you build a wood frame for the cabinet and a wood bottom to hold the weight, it should work well.
It’s a amazing.
What kind of rust oleum paint did you use sir ?
I am trying to build a plywood kayak.
It was Rustoleum blue here is a link to it www.hardwareworld.com/pec0q0t/High-Performance-Protective-Enamel-Safety-Blue-Gallon?gclid=Cj0KCQjw_ez2BRCyARIsAJfg-ktVGlsQZgnQU6M8RAJFiTpCLScJb7-uWbQJd3JT-wrrnzBAqKJ98k4aAi_hEALw_wcB
I am sick and tired of repairing my paint job every damn time I get run over by a bus.
lol
Just be glad you survived each time. 😆
Just what I was looking for! Thanks for this experiment!
Hope it was helpful. Thanks for watching!
How about seeing how well bed liner sticks to them and then test them.
Fiberglas on Plywood is more to use a Material (Plywood) which does Not call for precise and Energy excessive Bonding Like metal and make a baselayer (Epoxy-resin + Fiberglas) for further waterproofing (gelcoat, which protects the Epoxy from damage thru UV-light).
The stiffness of 2 Plates of multilayered Fiberglas and Plywood or foam as Core is already in 2 different classes.
Plywood with it's Natural wood cement "lignine" is stronger regarding vertical pressure than many foam/foam-cores.
If Something is stiff by the Plates (Fiberglas) and it (wooden Core) is less stiff than the Plates the strenght as tension flange is still there but less important. The resistence against pressure is important for stiffness.
A wooden-core of an alpine-ski is a combination of Plywood-like structures and cross-grained wood.
The Flex vs. Torsion-stiffness is the Art of engineering there.
A compound with wooden Core is not easy to outperform.
The structure of Balsa Wood If you Look on the cross-grained surfaces in a microscope the Structures is another solution by the Nature compared to honeycomb-structure.
Like honeycomb the Walls created by Cellulose and cemented by lignine stand vertical.
As lignine fills the structure you can Bond Balsa cross-grained wood to e.g. Canvas even better than e.g. Nomex-/Kevlar-/Aramide honeycomb-core Material to Fiberglas or Carbon-Plates.
More or less prepreg-concept is the only way to Bond Fiberglas/Carbon Plates with Aramide-honeycomb-cores.
As Tidebond also can handle cross-grained wood "the poor man's" compound based on Canvas and wooden Core Out of "Cross grained Wood" is realizeable. Balsa is very light but has very weak robustness against moisture. There are other wood-types Not too heavy while offering better robustness against moisture.
Regarding the waterproofing it should be easy repairable by easy overpainting and patching.
Something which is Not topped with Tidebond and painted with Latex from the First layer can Not been easy repaired or overpainted.
If you dilute Brantho-Korrux 3-in-1 it's even penetrating uncovered Canvas. Last Layers with Iron mica Colours of Brantho-Korrux 3-in-1 give thicker Layers of Paint.
Brantho-Korrux 3-in-1 and Brantho Korrux Gas-/Petrol-resistant are developed for Off-Shore applications and have an approval by the German Railways.
Brantho-Korrux Gas-/Petrol-resistant is less flexible. E.g. Not flexible enough for overpainting the glue filled gaps at the metal-skin of an light commercial Vehicle Like the Chrysler Van based on the Fiat Ducato (>= 3.5 Ton Class LCV).
At Caravans and Mobilehomes there are areas kept uncovered so that the wood can breath.
This areas you can Paint with filtered and aged linseedoil and linseedoil based painting. Wood then can still breath but is hydrophobious treated. There even exist linseedoil based Iron mica painting.
www.kreidezeit.de/en/product/rust-protection-paint/
That would be for edges and Not the areas where the wood should breath Well.
If you Work with linseedoil the wood should Not been covered with Canvas or other textile as linseedoil then let selfinflame the textiles. It even can selfinflame the brushes and other soaked Tools.
Thanks for the information.
And all I did was ask him what time it was
The insulation and other logistics of fitting the chosen material with all the things even just a hobby project would need almost sounds like a nightmare in ways.. But you'll find a way; you always do.
It should work out. I'll have to add pieces of wood in the areas where hinges or other parts will go.
what is the cost diffrence between fiberglass and pmf?
Hi Luke. How much does it weigh compared to wood? Like ply wood or 2 by 6.
It is extremely lightweight. Hardly weighs anything. I would say wood is about 5 times heavier.
Before fiberglass the nacent rec boating industry and new England lobster fishermen used pmf over wood decks wnd superstructure (not boat hull) because it was more durable than paint or varnish that required regular maintenance and replacement between 1-3 years in New England weather depending on use intensity.... Pmf lasted longer but still required maintenance and periodic replacement... Just not as often, plus it gave a nonskid surfaces for decks (we are talking 1920-1960 or so
Thats pretty cool! Thanks for the info.
Sorry question was to early watched the whole video. Great Video. Just what I was looking for, going to build hollow pontoons and cover them with PMF thanks again.
Sounds great! It should make great pontoons.
My problem (among many others that I will leave out here) is that the pontoon would not be PMF'd on both sides. The tube skin would not be stiff against external force. It is the _inner_ skin, on the side away from any force, that provides most of the stiffness, as it it is stressed in stretch (tension). The exterior skin is stressed in bending force only and is very weak in that way.
you need to use a "control" for these tests to show what happens to other more durable material in the same test.
True, that would be better.
You are my favorite scientist. thank you for this.
Wow, thanks!
You can use just latex paint (no glue required). Paint item, add cloth, immediately repaint while still wet...
Glue adds strength to the fabric.
Hi. Nice work. Your panel say Miami-Dade, do you have information on it? where you got it? thanks.
I’ve seen quite a few of these videos and am impressed with pmf. But what I’m really curious about is the crush strength- would it hold up to being walked on regularly or would it crush and delam? …Like on the roof of my boat I’m building. Any experiences or thoughts would be appreciated!
Did you end up using it for your boat roof?
I don't know if you've used it yet or not, I would go with 1/4 inch plywood under at least a formula 400 or better and then another 1/4 inch piece of plywood. You would have a nice foam cored piece that could stand up to people walking on it without damaging it. The 400 is 40 psi per square inch.
@@TenSpeed2007 That sounds way over needed spec. It would be very heavy and expensive, just to walk on. Foam core is based on very thin skin on a low density, light core.
Hear me out - and this may be a little heavy, but has anyone ever tried the poor man's fiberglass, but with resin?
Sounds like it would work. It would basically just be fiberglass then.
@@lukeFugate Yeah, I guess it would just be a difference in material you're using then. I don't know enough about this stuff and am just watching videos and planning build. Getting different ideas. This just seems like it would be soooo much lighter.
The exact info I needed for building my hillbilly catamaran floats. Thanks dude!
Glad I could help!
Luke I read through some of the comments didn’t see my question. What is your poor mans fiberglass covering?
Foam.
A real test would be leaving the panels outside where they were exposed to all types of weather and sunlight for at least 6 months.
There are other posts where people have just done just this. One commented that his boat sat on top of his car all the time, all types of weather, and had not suffered. What may be most important here is actually exterior paint over the top. No structural addition, but huge UV protection.
Couldn't find a dry area for that final test?
Nah, had to test where I could.
On a science note, both or all of the test subjects should have been identical sizes. The weight test wasn't fair as the sheet board is twice is wide thus stronger from the start. Like comparing a 2x6 to a 2x12 in that test.
I've seen other videos regarding the bubbles in the bed sheets, seems the issue is that once the sheet is wet is holds air/water (remember in scouts when you used pants legs as a flotation device, get them wet and they hold air because the water seals up the tight weave.)
I'm curious of the PMF... I tried something a year back didn't didn't do well... that was canvas and fiberglass resin(sets to fast and absorbs a lot of resin). Debating and comparing between using paint and titebond II as the glue. Paint would be much cheaper as a glue.
True, I should have sized them the same.
I would be curious to see if the paint works without the glue as well.
Theres a guy who has a RUclips channel that builds campers. He's building a truck camper and he uses poor mans fiberglass on his camper builds. He uses bed sheets, he has a technique that keeps the sheet looking good, no bubbles. He also said the bedsheets are a smoother finish then the canvas.
Anyways you may want to look for his channel to get some ideas of how to PMF. I can't remember his name or channel, just type in the search bar DIY campers and may want to try searching DIY campers builds with PMF Im sure you can find him. His bedsheets PMF turned out really nice. The videos I seen he was building a truck bed slide in camper....
I'll check it out, thanks.
Hi, what have you put in the middle . Is it timber or foamboard insulation?. Thankyou
Foamboard insulation.
My theory of why u have air bubbles with the bed sheet is that the bed sheet may have fabric properties that does not allow the paint to fully adhere or absorb to the bed sheet fabric whereas the painters cloth does adhere or absorb to the paint.
Interesting experiment Luke.
The painters fabric did not hold up so well under scrutiny of the twisting of Zephyr front tire...perhaps the roughness of the painters fabric with the paint, and the bed sheet fabric held up the Best under the scrutiny of the twisting of Zephyr front tire...perhaps the smoothness of the bedsheet fabric and the paint with the air bubbles.
I do like the idea of the combination of painters Fabric & bedsheet fabric. I might add that u may always have a problem with air bubbles...with the bedsheet fabric...the paint & the bed sheet properties are not balanced enough to make it without air bubbles as the properties of the painters fabric and the paint.
Sorry...😞😞 as my usual writing ✍️ is FULL of Emojis 😂😂👍🏼 🧰✂️ 📐📏😀😀👍🏼.. I wrote without them above 😜😜🤪
I didn't originally think either one would survive Zephyr running over them. It's a stronger material than I thought. I think I will try the bed sheet and painters cloth as a composite material. I will try a small piece to see, and if the bubbles make a reappearance I will just go with the painters cloth alone.
How water proof is this? My idea is digging out a pool and using this as the shell straight on dirt!!! Could it work?
It would probably work. My son used PMF on the roof of his food trailer and no leaks yet(about a year so far)
It won't work for a pool long term. The pressure is too high. The first rain that softens the surrounding soil and you'll have a leak.
Very cool video. I appreciate the time and effort that went into it!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
Can you make a boat using pmf?
I suppose you could. It would require a sturdy wood or metal frame to hold the shape though.
@@lukeFugate yes .over plywood..thanks for the reply
What abouts pmf just 1/4 ,plywood without the foam
I have a plan, really
That will work great.
@@lukeFugate I need it for sleep platform 20inches wide and various other interior bulkheads and cabinets
I can also get 1/4 inch plywood cheap cheap cheap
Also part of my build will include removable boards that can double as miter saw and table saw tables. If the pmf strengthen that well. Maybe 1/2 " tho
Is it waterproof? Can you build a boat with it?
Yes, If you make sure all the seams are sealed very well, you could. I would recommend a wooden frame to support it though.
What kind of foam boards is that?
It is foam insulation boards. They come in 4'x8' sheets.
Wow that stuff is strong! Next test - does it work as the deck of a bridge?!
I would say it wouldn't work for that, but it proved me wrong before lol.
LOL
😂😂😜
Why did you make the panels to different sizes???. WTF??
It doesn't appear to me that you are comparing Apples to Apples the pieces are not the same size allowing the larger size disperse the weight differently in the smaller one
Think this will work good for making a freezer?
Yes, definitely. That's a great idea. Maybe double, or even triple the layers of foam and it would hold the temperature well.
So what glue did you use?
It is Titebond 2. It is supposed to be a wood glue.
js if you use bedliner insted of rust oleum it will be 1million times stronger and i higly doubt the presuer waser could chip it
Painters drop sheet will let air through the adhesive
This just might work for my boat pontoons!
It would be an excellent material for that I think. Good luck!
Great video, hilarious and instructional. I am thinking of building a camper. So PMF is the way to go. You should apply for a job with National Institute of Standards and Technology.
You should have cut the edge off of the canvas because the edge gives you more strength than you give it credit for having cut the bed sheet off.
I think the sheet did just as good as the other. No one is going to let a bus run over there camper or what ever they make out of it.
I'm going to make me a tiny home out of foam and use either the canvas clothe or even a sheet for the outside and inside to give it the strength it needs.
So I guess tight bond glue won't eat through the foam.
I'm going to try and make it and 8 ft by 12 ft or maybe even go 16 ft tiny home to pull behind my car.
I love doing stuff like this.
Thank you for your info.
God bless 🙏💞🙏
Yeah I guess if you have a bus run over the camper there may be bigger problems lol.
Good luck on your build.
@@lukeFugate lol, true.
was this shot in your out house?
I was impressed with the pmf during the entire test, but worried about the bad noise coming from your steering system on the bus. You might want to test the bus more.
lol yeah I guess it could use some grease. I have greased it since that video. It wasn't as bad as the camera mic made it sound. Thanks for watching!
hahaha!
Funny and informative. Good combo. Thanks for sharing
Glad you enjoyed it!
What thickness foam was that?
It was 3/4 foam. You could use 1/4 foam and have pretty good strength though.
@@lukeFugate so I was thinking of skinning a 5x7 deer blind in 2inch foam, then pmf all the way around. The floor would be 2x4 base topped with 1/2 plywood. Wall frames would be 2x2 lumber. Think be rigid enough once wrapped in pmf?
@@jasondominguez8179 yes, it should be pretty rigid. That size of structure I think will be plenty strong built that way.
The only video I've seen of any one taking an engineering mindset and actually testing this stuff to see how it would hold up over time. Rather than a it looks like fibreglass, it smells like fibreglass therefore it's the same approach. Interestingly with the current move towards forcibly turning everyone into a card carrying long haired sandal wearing hippy the composite industry is slowly moving towards natural fabric based composit materials.
In what ways is the Composite industry “moving towards forcibly turning everyone into a card-carrying long haired sandal wearing hippy”?
and for that you gotta use hemp coz that's cool. Seriously they made hemp surfboards for a while
Hey! :) Change "Duribility" in your title to "Durability" and I bet you'll get a TON of views. Sorry for the multiple comments. Just wanted to say this was rad.
Thanks! I hadn't noticed that!
So the moral of this story is don't drive where it says falling rocks
I appreciate the effort. Thank you
Thanks for watching!
that stuff is impressive, Im always amazed at how tough my toilet paper and paint props are and that pmf appears stronger. It looked like the rock that cut through the sheet hit with the edge but it hit the canvas a little flatter. Im looking forward to seeing how you design the body
Yeah, it surprised me.
You taught me a new method of paper-mache. Thanks!
@@douglasgallardojr4759 its amazingly ez to work with
Man I needed this!!!
Glad it helped!
Need more interesting new content vids..
Perhaps a outdoor stove?
Wildlife Trail cam with a bridge across the brook?
I could do some camping videos using the ammo can stove.
Try less glue and let the paint seal it. You can use an iron the apply the sheet.
Thank you, I'll try that.
Well made I'm interested in making that stuff.💯
Go for it! It is good stuff. surprised me.
I was hoping you would bring a shotgun out to the party.
man, if you stack drop cloth and bed sheet, with titebond II between each, I'm pretty sure you've just made Poor Man's Adamantium LMFAO
LOL true!
I would like to see it cut open after 6 months outside in the direct sun and rain!
Or a year!
Good suggestion. I'll try to see if I can find them.
That just looks like a good day hell yeah man do you good video 👍
Thank you, it was a fun day.
Man…. That drop clothe is thicker than a bed sheet. I would off the top know that the drop clothe poor man’s fiber glass would be stronger.
Doing a few layers would also help.
Composites for the win !!!
Yes, they both surprised me. If I had realized they would be so tough, I would have come up with tougher tests. The last one was supposed to destroy them both.
thanks ...great vid👍
Glad you liked it!
High thread count bed sheets can't breath...need cheep sheets. 100 thread count.
Thanks for the tip!
@@lukeFugate what about using OSB plywood...the rough side. I've never tried it but seems like it would stick well. On smooth plywood I always sand it and then use a paper tiger to rough it up a bit more.
Perfect example of a very NON-scientific test of two items. So many variances that its worthless to consider it a side by side test.
Probably true. You could make a video showing a better testing method and share the link on here if you want.
Mate, there r different sizes. Not fair test
What is up with this Guy………..lol
Must be something in the water around here.
I'm go to wrap my truck and make a truck boat
Muito bom..👏