Ultimate Flow Test - PVC vs. Corrugated Drainage Pipe
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- In this video I test the flow capacity of 4" PVC schedule 40 and 4" corrugated pipes.
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As a new homeowner, I can't tell you how helpful your channel has been. Everyone I've talked to about drainage for my back yard has said something to the effect of, "It's super easy, just connect some corrugated pipe to your downspouts and point them away from your house down hill". It's, obviously, not that simple.
After watching your videos, there's no question that I'll spring for the extra expense, time, and effort that PVC requires. Your videos are an excellent proof of concept for using PVC for drainage. Awesome stuff!
Thank you! Best luck with your house!
the whole story is how corrugated fails over time with silt, and how it is very difficult to lay without having bellies in the pipe that stop water flow.
It's is some people just that stupid like listening to gateway city and there B's videos on corrugated pipes what a joke. clearly they don't know what the fuck they are talking about.
You should watch this channel. He replaces failed pvc drain systems all the time. ruclips.net/user/FRENCHDRAINMAN
This test used so little water it’s not anywhere near real world accurate.
I’ve been a new home owner for about a year now with low areas in my yard. I did go down to Lowe’s and buy the 10ft gutter extensions. I’ve been using them for 9 months and they have helped TREMENDOUSLY. I plan on doing an underground corrugated system to the culvert when Rainey season is over.
I’m a civil engineer, and we basically do the same thing but on a larger scale and with concrete pipe instead of pvc. 36 inch corrugated is standard. If we need more flow to drain the roadway faster, use concrete. If it needs to be faster yet, they make linings for the pipe which reduce friction
Thanks for the comment! Interesting.
I recently pulled out some 30 year old corrugated drain pipe from my own yard. The pipe was catching a lot of water from driveway runoff and downspouts. The pipe had not failed, and contained only a small amount of silt. I pulled the pipe just so that i could reroute it. I was surprised that is was in such good condition.
Nice! If it has a huge amount of flow it does pretty well.
SPOILER ALERT (PVC IS SUPERIOR) NO SUPRISE! Great video as always. Respect from the UK
Thank you Steven! Keep watching - Shawn
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Not necessarily true. Corrugated with smooth interior walls is virtually crush-proof. PVC is not. Plus, PVC can freeze and crack.
i was watching in another channel someone explaining how corrugated pipe is designed to be used in crops at a certain depths so the roots dont break into it but around it. But since you need to mass produce it to keep it cheap, it is being marketed as a competitor or replacement for pvc.
I would say that the problem with this is actually highlighting a totally different issue. The problem is not that each rib is holding water in this test. It is that the corrugated pipe is set with a "belly" right where you covered it up with dirt. On one hand, the test should be done on a firm slope as to ensure the exact same conditions for both pipes. However, this test very perfectly demonstrates how easy it is to accidently install corrugated pipe with a "belly" in it that will cause it to fail and clog. With that said, it should be pointed out that PVC, along with its lower surface area (Corrugated is 4x the surface area) and friction making the pvd ideal; the rigid nature of pvc makes it inherently fool proof on installation ensuring that it cannot be installed with "belly" unless there is some severe negligence in the install. Contractors seem to blame contractors for poor installations being the bad rap cause of corrugated. This may be true but that is actually a negative component of corrugated.
Great Video!
100% agree. If you watch at 23:05 you can see that the corrugated is not sloped or pitched the same as the PVC. In fact the corrugated is pitched UP before it slopes down. I'm not convinced based on this experiment alone.
Corrugated is garbage , I seen so many videos where it's full of dirt and stop working after a year and they be sloped right . If u think corrugated is awesome use it and you'll see you'll have to redo the job often
Youre slow. @@PaulDo22
Yes, a significantly flawed experiment, but good effort though for sure. I enjoyed watching.
@@heather4230not a flawed experiment. This is a real world application, 99% of installs the corrugated will never have a perfect uniform slope, let alone an even average ish slope like the PVC has. If you’re the 1% great, but most of these you’ll find installed will be like this
What an eye opener!! No more corrugated for me. Many thanks for a great video.
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it - Shawn
thanks for posting. I would just add - which product to use depends on your application. on my farm - if I want to drain a large area to ensure I have 3 to 4 feet of well drained soil - I would use corrugated since it will pick up water along the way to the outlet. ( it will also pick up water coming from the bottom to prevent water logging). If I want to transport a large quantity of fast moving water i.e. rain water collected from a down sprout from a roof - I would use solid PVC as I want this water to get far away and fast without seeping into soil next to my house or yard.
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Over here we usually use pvc for surface water. And we use stiff currugated pipes with lining and slots for drainage.
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I thought I heard your reciprocating saw screaming to be saved for the dirt pile. 😁great visual for the viewers thanks Shawn.
Haha it almost got buried!
I was thinking the same thing, although it may have been me screaming lol
Corrugated pipe slows down the water flow which is good for drainage on steep slopes. Wherever the outflow is it may cause less erosion, and the ribs do a good job of holding the pipe into the hillside.
Hell yeah pvc is a no brainer . I used a corrugated plastic tube as a convert in my driveway it was a huge mistake too it got full of dirt and other debris. I'm huge believer of using pvc for drainage. Thanks for posting this Shawn
Thanks for watching George! Keep drainaging!
I really like schedule 40 black ABS. It's UV resistant, impact resistant, and doesn't stick out like a sore thumb in landscapes.
I like it too but we use white because we can easily find a full range of fittings. I also buy pipe by the 1340' pallet.
ABS is not UV resistant. You can't use it outside. Abs pipes are pretty standard but we never use them outside.
Thank you so much for showing us to not use corrugated pipes
Thank you Judy! I do need to do a "benefits of corrugated" video. It makes great mosquito habitat and is easy to flatten out when you're filling a dumpster with it.
Of course SMOOTH PVC will initially allow more flow than Corrugated, until all the ridges on the bottom side of the corrugated are filled up with water ...at which point they will have very similar flow rates unless.... we’re talking about laminar flow here and I don’t think we are.
What I’m concerned about is what perforated, corrugated vs PVC and how they compare in terms of flow rate for French drains.
Thanks,
Chas
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Pipes in french drains need to be almost flat, very little pitch or fall. Corrugated is harder to lay flat and will almost always have water resting in its ribs until it seeps back into the ground through the slots that initially fill it.
I had to rip out a corrugated downspout system nearly completely blocked by roots. Replaced it with glued schedule 40 in a perfectly graded trench. It will not hold water. This is in Chicago, and after 5 years it's worked perfectly. Because it can't hold water, I don't worry about it freezing. The only unknown is whether thermal expansion/retraction with break the glue joints loose and allow roots in. Even if it does, I installed clean-outs at the top of each run, and rodding out PVC is way easier.
I agree. PVC is so much better all around.
Thank you Shawn. I appreciate the time and effort you take to make these videos. Ten thumbs up.
Thank you! They do take some time for sure!
Of course the pvc flows better but if you are going for perforated pipe it doesn’t follow for sure that the pvc pipe would take in more water from ground. Which would be another interesting test.
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That test is exactly what I was looking for when I found GCFD's video here. With all other variables equal, which is overall best - PVC with 3 sets of holes OR corrugated with 360 degrees of holes for a french drain system seeking to move (1) ground water coming up from high water table underneath plus (2) surface water during rain, (not for downspout water. obviously solid PVC is best for downspout water discharge).
Great video, these are exactly the two reasons (roots and debris accumulations in the ribs) I used SDR-35 instead of corrugated.
Nice. You can't go wrong with SDR35.
Great video! And fantastic example. We only use rigid pipe. When customers insist on corrugated to save 3% of project cost we have to walk. It would clog, collapse, or fail soon and we would get the blame.
We tend to replace lots of systems that were corrugated!
Great comment Alan! I also see lots of failed corrugated pipe everywhere. It's cheap! but you don't want to cheap out on drainage.
Corregated would make a great gold catcher .
Same concept, right? Heavier particles will drop out and get caught in the ribs. Au
Gold would probably get flushed out during a hard rain. But in any case, were not trying to move gold. Dirt, shingle grit, and tree debris move right through corrugated pipe.
There are videos of people doing that.
If the corrugated doesn't have a smooth internal wall the water will have to fill up all those ridge spaces before it will flow fully
Exactly. All that water is holding in the corrugated which impedes the flow, is a magnet for roots, and collects debris. Great comment.
Makes total sense... PVC is smooth hence flows better. Much harder to install though but much better for the long run ! I noticed that you glue them like plumbers would... NICE !
the fact that this video is even necessary is an indictment of the education system. It should be obvious to people corrugated tubing slows water velocity with each rib and has divots that will accumulate and hold water. Any drainage company that suggests corrugated pipes shouldn't be considered. Excellent content
Haha you would think so! there are others on youtube showing that corrugated is self cleaning by creating turbulence as it flows. The laws of thermodynamics are so far unbreakable, except in their case with corrugated, lol
@@GCFD lets pretend they can be broken - i still wouldnt want a pipe that can be crushed lol
@@GCFD Also, for fun, i did the math - each 1 inch rib (the area with a greater diameter within the tube) will hold about 1.35oz before there is enough fluid to spill over the subsequent wall. That said, on 40-foot tube with rubs every 1 inch, will hold approx. 324oz of water within the total length of the tube
Was about to call you from the UK as I thought you were about to bury you Dewalt and not realize it. Glad to see it back onto top of the mound. Got me worried, that is a nice tool 😊
You mentioned the real reason why people favor corrugated several times, every time you said ‘easier’ 😊. Quality costs but normally you only pay once. Thank you for you great videos.
Thanks for watching Luiz!
If one of my guys installed a pipe with that large of a sag in the grade and then proceed to dump a full bucket on said pipe i would not be happy. Theres a place for corrugated pipe. Quite possibly if you want to slow down the water to prevent erosion. However you have pointed out its downfalls aswell such as its vulnerable nature.
Good point!
In Germany and many other European countries instead of schedule 40 pipes I can get KG pipe 110mm. Instead of being glued together they are connected with rubber sealed fitting sockets. They come in up to 6 meters length. KG stands for the German word "Kanalgrundrohr". KG pipes are the standard choice here for subsurface sewage or rainwater drainage. You can also get KG pipes with holes or slots. In German these are called "Sickerrohre". But for soil drainage almost everybody here uses corrugated pipes, including me so far. Inspired by you though I will try to use KG Sickerrohre for my next project.
I would always use PVC simply for the fact that PVC is less prone to collapsing. One thing to mention is that once a corrugated pipe fills up enough, the water on the bottom travels slower than the water on the top, so it will eventually flow close to the same as through PVC at higher volumes of water. Corrugated pipe will always hold water. Try it again with 50 gals in each.
Never store water in the pipe because tree roots WILL intrude and ruin the pipe
I have two 45' perforated PVC downspout drains in continuous service since 1969. Replaced about 10 feet of outfall and cleaned root intrusion at inlets once. Amazing durability for thinwall pipe. They also clean themselves with proper slope.
I think the key for any system is to not hold water. No water=no roots. I think corrugated will flow adequately for most residential applications, and can self-clean adequately, too. And so long as you eliminate or mitigate/tape/seal underground joints, and ensure your trench is perfectly graded, I think it's adequate. But I do think PVC is better. No matter what anyone chooses, don't forget to place cleanouts at the heads!
Great video thanks for taking the time to proof the right way to do the job right on the first time or go cheap do all the digging and hard work and have the same problem in couple years
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You Sir have done a service to humanity for this. LOL....seriously...this is all I needed to see. Upgrading my entire french drain system to PVC later this year.
Dude, you are SO smart. Subscriber for life now. The outflow from my basement sump pump, I relocated it myself, all PVC. Going forward, to handle my Spring run-off issues I'm doing it PVC. Worth it. Do it right the first time! Thank you for sharing your knowledge. The internet can be a great place!
Thank you for watching and commenting Snowy! - Shawn
Hi the pvc used in your basement is still black thank you
Enjoyed the timelapse! Put PVC to the test, put the whole bucket of debris in PVC, see how long it takes to clear, or how much water! Great video!
Thank you! Thanks for watching and commenting!
good practical demo - quick back of the envelope calc suggests that corrugated can hold about 0.5L per metre in length before the ridges fill up at the bottom.
Thank you! I want to repeat this experiment with more slope to see if I can get that corrugated to flow.
If someone has to put half a mile of more of drainage in they will go for the corrugated pipe, pvc is fine if you are willing to pay the extra costs or only doing small jobs
I have corrugated pipe running next to my road that has been there for the last 25 years and not once has it blocked
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A quick question, if using pvc pipe or any pipe, that you are looking to take water off a lane, should you drill holes so water can go in or will it go in anyways
Thanks for all the great info, bought my first house recently and have been working on getting the house to drain correctly
Congrats on the house purchase Nick!
Love your videos. I've learnt so much and can do my own french drains- now. You must enjoy your job as it really involves some great problem solving. Thank you so much.
Thank you Jo!
Thank you. I do watch apple drains. But all my corrugated pipe is all clogged. 600 feet of it. It did last 10years. But I plan on scheduled 40 next with clean outside every 50 feet to ease clean out.
Thanks for sharing. I use PVC because it lasts longer and works better. Cleanouts are a great idea and cheap insurance in a long run like that. Best of luck with your upcoming project. 👍
There is a pipe that I've used called "S&D" or "sewer and drain" and it's probably 1/4 the thickness of scd-40. Its cheap, lightweight and has a smooth flow channel. All around great for small storm water systems.
That is schedule 30 PVC. it's much better than corrugated but is still easy to crush. Also, the fittings are not as readily available as schedule 40.
My sewer main from the house to the septic tank was installed with schedule 30. It's only about 24" deep, but the pipe collapsed under the weight of the dirt above it and had to be dug up & replaced. If you're burying it shallow, and it is unlikely to be driven on - ever, under any circumstances - then you could probably save a buck and use that, but personally, the risk of having to re-do schedule 30 someday far outweighs the relatively small cost savings over using schedule 40.
@@GCFD I always wondered why you didn't use smooth DWV pipe.
Surely perforated corrugated is best for french drains in the bottom of a trench + stone + fabric. Water simply would not enter the solid pvc pipe.
Check out my french drain videos. Soild PVC with holes drilled at 5 & 7 o clock make for a fantastic FD pipe.
If any one is in denial they don’t believe in a wind tunnel,, thank you the proof is in the PVC. great video.
Thank you!
I had to divert a gutter away from my house this spring. I went straight for SCH 40 PVC. not even a though about corrugated. all of my original pipes that divert other gutters were all PVC already. it's a no brainer in my opinion.
I agree! There’s a ton of mis information about corrugated on RUclips.
What about the frost line and freezing/cracking PVC? Im in Rhode Island and I believe the frost line is buried at 38 inches. Which means I'd have to dig down at least 42 inches to prevent the heaving and cracking?
Corrugated pipe is made like that because it creates a ripple effect when moving water down to the end. And that rippling effect makes it self cleanning.
It takes energy to create ripples which kills the flow. So there's no flow to carry anything away. Of course this is not apparent if you're blasting a hose into the pipe.
And slope is super critical for the corrugated pipe.
@@c00lhand208
Well more for PVC... Anyways "No flow to carry anything away" Its called gravity. Not sure what hes talking about here. Gravity does the work.
PVC is a clean surface. If you have little water flow but a good amount of garbage in the line it will get stuck all the time. If you have any area in the pipe that lost its slope (due to install or ground moving) your PVC pipe will get clogged all the time. If you have any area with little slope your pipe will get clogged all the time. Hopefully and usually a good rain can clear it but not always. I seen new homes built that had this problem and needed to be redone.
I don't know why having some water sit in the line matters. We are talking about a few cups of water every 50-100 feet of corrugated pipe. This is some how an argument for why PVC is better? That's a poor argument. Little bit of water in the line does not do anything. Those ridges are not that deep and depending on the slope they can hold less water.
PVC has its advantages and so does Corrugated.
Corrugated is cheaper, more user friendly
PVC has sealed connections and is easier to measure proper slope.
Both disadvantages of said pipes can be fixed with a little work
@@bobshanery5152 fully agree.
@@GCFD How about corrugated dual wall? -the best of corrugated and pvc in one. I'm using this to replace some cracking 20 year old triple wall.
Videos like this are what happens when a landscaper gets bored LOL
There are so many guys out there saying this product or that product is superior. The reality is that I have usually found things to be situational-dependent. Sometimes you need to wrap a system in fabric other times you don't. Sometimes schedule 40 (or even schedule 80) is called for other times corrugated pipe is just fine. The reality is I can drop 100 feet of 6" corrugated pipe for $150 in cost versus $260 for schedule 40 PVC (not including labor as the labor to make the connection on the PVC would drive up that margin of difference greatly since labor is one of the biggest cost factors in a job). The 6" corrugated will move more water per minute than the 4" PVC. And since we are talking about gravity fed with usually a 1-2 percent slope being all that is needed, this is really a moot point to make the comparison.
I see clogged and failed 4" corrugated systems every day so I think the comparison is extremely applicable. Thanks for your comment!
@@GCFD and I see failed PVC systems too. Yes effluent will build up in those PVC systems as well. But I use the right tool for the job. If all you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail.
Perhaps the clog systems are not a result of a product but a symptom of the application of the product. Like I’ve said, it’s all situational dependent.
De pijp met golven wordt voor drainage gebruikt met een filter doek met een andere bedoeling het ook kunnen afgeven van water bij droogte
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I really appreciated this demonstration of how much debris and water gets trapped in corrugated. I am pretty much sold on the idea that the interior of the pipes need to be smooth. I started to wonder though if there is a pipe that has the same smooth interior and crush rating as PVC, but is less brittle and more flexible. I recently came across a video promoting Double Wall corrugated which is SMOOTH on the inside. It is much more rigid than single wall, but still has some flexibility compared to PVC. Do you have any thoughts on that? I also like the idea of TRIPLE WALL, which also has the smooth interior, but it seems cheaper and less durable to me.
All those ribs in the corrugated pipe store water until they are filled with sand and sediment. I guess the bugs could also get a drink later. I think the term you are looking for is coefficient of friction. I wonder how well that black pipe would do with cold collection?
I think the corrugated would be great for gold collection. Look for the black sand.
When you want to slow down the flow of traffic put in some speed bumps. When you want to slow down the flow of water in a pipe put in speed bumps (corrugations).
Haha exactly!
Ha! My thoughts exactly.
I loathe speed bumps! 😡
Thank you for all your time! really your experiments had helped me to decide what to use for my drainage project.
Thank you
I think the most convincing part of the video was the "carpet" you pulled out of the corrugated pipe. If someone doesn't believe that PVC drains better, you could whack them with it. Also, I did some rough calculations and 110mm OD (4.1 inch OD) corrugated pipe will hold about a quart of water in 125ft (Very rough calculations, so please correct me if I made a mistake) You probably didn't have enough water to fill up the grooves in your demo. So a series of small rainfalls with low flow would fill the pipe with debris, but not really carry it through. If the stuff is sticky, like the shingle dust, you'll build up a "carpet" like the one you pulled out.
thanks for the info Robert! Very interesting. 👍
THIS VIDEO SHOULD HAVE WAY MORE LIKES THAN THIS, GREAT VIDEO MAN CHEERS
Thank you Rah!
I’m so thankful I found your channel. You really explain things well.
Thank you!
The water flow capability of smooth wall over corrugated is logical. My question is whether PVC's rigidity causes it to crack or break as soil shifts over time, whereas corrugated can flex. What is your experience with PVC after several years?
I live in NC where we don't get any freeze/thaw in the ground. So for our area PVC can't be beat. I can't speak to other areas with more severe weather though.
What about clay soil like super hard red dirt clay soil?
We use pvc as electrical underground conduit here in the midwest(plenty of freeze/thaw) that stuff moves around without any issues....
I have been watching your videos for a while. I particularly like your revisit to your projects and showed us the results, Thank you so much and I learned a lot from you. This is a great demo. No question the PVC pipe is the way to go. Thanks
Thank you for watching and commenting! - Shawn
Appreciate the effort in the video even though most of knew what one is better before watching... FDM says water flowing corrgaurted causes turbulence and flushes out debris... I disagreed with him because the corrugated weeping tile that flows thousands and thousands of gallons a year around my house was half full of sand when I dug it up this past summer. again great video!!
Thanks for your support Chris! I plan to make another similar video where I highlight the connections and how corrugated leaks water out of the joints. Can you think of any other aspects to highlight?
it cant stand any type of weight in my opinion. water freezes and accumulates aswell(although not an issue in your area- it is here in canada though).... Maybe drive a truck over each of them and see how they look?
I saw the video FDM did using some pipe that looked like dryer vent hose. He was saying it was fantastic and only threw it on the ground and dropped some leaves and pine cones in it. This test is far more realistic and gives a true representation of what the pipes do. FDM is def too biased to see the flaw in his logic.
Horses for courses. It's not a fair comparison since you'd lay the pvc as your general drainage and lay corrugated say under a gravel driveway where you'd have constant loads being applied. Sure the smooth pvc would flow more initially however once the corrugations filled with water and levelled out the difference in flow would be minimal.
I was playing with material-prices & found it's actually cheaper per-gallon-moved-per-foot to buy 4in-OR-6in-SDR-35 than to purchase 4in-corrugated.
I think you're the only one who would consider price per unit of water moved as a metric for comparison (;
@@GCFD The quad-corrugated-FD installs here on YT can't touch the price or volume-moving-capabilities of 6in-SDR35 even with the cheap-corrugated-pipe.
Or just use schedule 20, still better off than corrugated. I'm curious if anyone ever uses flexible pvc pipe when you don't need a full 4" pipe
@@padraics You need to check if that flexible PVC can be installed underground. The type that's for above-ground pool/hot-tub use usually have warnings from the manufacture that don't warranty ant or termite damage. The ground-dwelling bugs will eat most flexible PVC.
Thanks for the video. I happen to have both PVC pipe and corrugated pipe right now and was using them to run on the surface to take water from the downspouts away from my house into the woods. However I have some low lying areas that have water build up and I am going to put in French drains. Based on your videos, I will clearly use PVC pipes. As I walk down my road every day, I pass house after house that have underground French drains with the end coming out to allow the water to run into the ditch alongside the road. Every single house, old or new, have been using PVC pipes. My only concern, and it's not in this video but in others you have, is that you don't use landscape fabric but I will likely use that to stop build up of sediments. I don't have the huge volumes of water that needs to move fast so I can allow for a slower flow. Lastly, I do like your videos and have subscribed, and while you do speed some of them up, I would like to suggest that the videos could be edited to make them not only faster but also concise if you want people to watch and subscribe. So in this video for example, after you tried the bottles of water, we only needed to see no water was flowing out. Then back to the top with you and the bucket and dumping quart after quart into the pipe. We didn't need to see you walking back and forth. I know it seem silly but when you're working, like I am today but have stopped for lunch, that extra 5 minutes or so of footage is not needed. It happens on your other videos as well. Having said that... I still watch your videos. :-) Excess footage in many videos is added so the people posting them get to certain time posts for another commercial. That is very irritating as it is clearly filler being added to string us along. In your case it is just a guy going about his business and giving us beginners some useful information. Clearly no intention of keeping us hanging around for the next ad. I don't leave near you (I'm in Nova Scotia) but if I did I'd hire you.
Thanks for the feedback Kevin. I do try really hard to cut excess footage out of the videos. You're the first to say I had too much and I've responded to every comment on my channel to date. I will keep your feedback in mind. Thanks again, - Shawn
I would say 20,000 subscribers disagree about the excessive footage! 😊
@@tracyrain4941 I would disagree as I am also a subscriber. That's like saying that since a TV show has a million viewers then they all love every aspect of that TV show.
@@kevinmoore8780 ... would you have been happier if I'd said 19,999 subscribers instead?! 🤭😊
Your videos have made me want to get a summer job at a drainage company like yours. It would be perfect for me.
My guys work very hard to get these jobs done. They also find the work satisfying to solve a problem for the customer.
@@GCFD Thanks for the reply. Much respect for your passion for helping folks actually solve their drainage problems.
I’m not sure why all these videos are even necessary. I’ve myself have done the same in discussing this in videos and conversations. And still there are those out there, professionals, trying to disclaim the fact corrugated must be installed at twice the pitch to achieve an equal flow rate and velocity rate as that of PVC pipe. You can find this information on all the websites of major manufacturers of these products. Case closed.
Nice video as always 👍😊
Thank you for commenting!
Thank you for the effort that you put into making this video Shawn!
Thank you! Thanks for watching!
I recommend revisiting this test. It is clear the installation of the corrugated pipe, very flexible, prevents effective draining and very difficult to install correctly. Adding insult to injury, corrugated pips are not durable, thus collapse and failure. The best comparison is recreate this test on a sloped driveway to show the difference...
Corrugated is very weak stuff. Made for garden burial under wood mulch only and now it is totally mis used.
Part of the test was to see if it could work in real world applications. Pouring a concrete base in a trench to then place corrugated on top of is far more work than using PVC. I may revisit this in a mocking sort of way because my dirt pile is about 12' tall now.
Great example of using rigid vs flexible pipe. So the ribbed pipe is not lying either flat or on a constant slope and guess what it fills up in the lowest points. If you have straight runs then great use PVC but if you are twisting around trees and obstacles then ribbed makes the job simpler. Also for high flow rates ribbed is fine but not so good on low flow as your test shows.
Thanks for commenting Robert!
This might be a FAQ but is that PVC schedule 40? Or something else. The cost of a 4in sch40 PVC is really high
Yes it's 4" PVC and it's expensive right now. Luckily I have a supplier who tries to keep the cost down for me.
@@GCFD what do you think of SDR35? I have found it at around $100 for 20ft section and they told me at the supplier that is what is used for storm drain applications
The water is slowed by the ridges and also sits in them in the corralled pipe.
They are mosquito farms too, not sure if you have that issue in your area. Here in the DC area where the shit is built on a swamp corrugated pipe definitely has that problem. Can’t tell you how many of those little gutter extensions I have removed from peoples houses and half a jungle ecosystem poured out with the water that was in there
flow is a volume of medium at a given pressure, I think they would be be the same and actual maximum flow would never be realistically met, I think your just measuring how much water you need to fill the corrugations to allow movement of water, I think others mentioned that water sitting in the pipe is not so much of a big deal, some other interesting points though thanks for the vid, just thought we needed to reconsider what the purpose of this is
Corrugated has so much more frictional resistance. It's like coasting down a smooth road or one with 1000 speed bumps. The corrugations kill the kinetic energy of the moving water. When water slows down it drops its sediment.
@@GCFD I don't think you need to preserve the energy of water in drainage, you aren't trying to power anything down the line, also if you have large sediment or debris in your drainage that need the kinetic energy to move the sediment, whether corrugated or pvc then you've got bigger problems, this is why with corrugated you should use basins to catch and monitor sediment which will accumulate in all drainage pipes, you will not have enough preserved kinetic energy in the pvc to overcome much/large sediment you likely are referring to that would become a problem in corrugated vs pvc due to angle of the drain flow of the pipe, if we want to get technical the sediment that moves through pvc will erode faster due to becoming liquid sandpaper, corrugated holds the sediment, accumulation should not be big issue because you shouldn't have huge runs of corrugated, but is often the case
Great job, well Done The pcv been around alot longer 👏 👍
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Corrugated drain pipe is never used where i live .we have smooth wall 4 inch sewer pipe that is used for in side the house and for gutters . It has rubber seals that are water tight just insert the tapered end of one pipe into the flared end of the other pipe and that's it . a non petroleum grease is used to facilitated the installation . this dries quickly but does not glues the pipe in case maintenance needs to be done . the pipes can be used many times .
I know these vidoes are old, but you all should know there is such a thing as dual wall HDPE corrugated piping. Smooth inside.
Now there is nothing wrong with PVC, especially if it is buried; but this is more complicated than you might suspect. HDPE shows less tendency to turn brittle (yes there is a scientific term for it), the HDPE of black pipes is far more protected from UV which is obviously a non-issue for the buried parts but it's not all buried and if you have to replace 2" of a pipe that's still not good.
I'm not saying builders don't do crappy jobs with drainage and choose the cheapest possible pipe and ignore slopes (all unforgivable), but you can't just see black and say "that's crap"
Excellent video. Thanks. In returning the corregidores pipe I just bought at HD. What about water flow rate for 2% slope. What is the flow rate for pvc vs corrugated for 3” and 4” pipe? Where can I find this info
I have watched several of your videos and obviously you know your stuff. I am currently doing my childhood home's yard that had water problems since I was a child 40 years ago. At some point, my mom had it done and they used, you guessed it, the corrugated junk with filter. It was done poorly and that it wasn't even sloping right. I just pulled it all out and they were all packed solid with dirt. What made me even madder was that there's a dry well and the pipes didn't even go to it!
Keeping French drain pipes and eavestrough downspout pipes separate I didn't even know about and PVC basically forces you to have a correct slope.
Thanks for this valuable info.
You just know the PVC will win, hands down, and it's still nice to see empirical proof.
Some people are still voting for corrugated! LOL
@@GCFD they just want it to be better so they can be lazy and just roll it out lol.
Best review ever! I’ve been debating between these 2 kinds. I think you just convinced me. Perhaps use both in some spots though, where I already had corrugated pipe installed by the previous owner. Will see.
You didn’t even try to lay the corrugated pipe in flat with slope like it would be in a good trench before burying. Also, I have never had a corrugated pipe clog when properly installed with tape on the joints.
Both pipes were laid side-by-side for a comparison. I see clogged corrugated ALL the time. They hold water and collect debris.
This test is inconclusive, you need a steady flow of water into both pipes with bark and wet leaves added to see which flows them threw better.
Spot on. This test just doesnt show real world and practical conditions.
Even with a steady flow, the corrugated is still holding water and debris. If anything, this was a tougher test than real world applications so it shows that the PVC is even more superior.
@@joeschratz9360 you get real world and practical conditions every time you flush your toilet. Same reason why all your shit pipes are smooth (be it cast iron, copper, clay, or pvc)
@@JSLEnterprises
Sure
But clay/Cast iron as a drain is not a prefect pipe like PVC. They are not perfectly smooth at least back in the day. They usually have little bumps, imperfections or connection bump/gaps.
I seen new homes installed with PVC and when the slope was not constant or if it had a slight drop backwards the sewer system would clog up. This resulted in taking out the foundation, yard or both.
Corrugated pipes have ridges and are more user friendly when you don't have the prefect slope, the slope disappearing due to settling or when you place soil on top. Those little ridges agitate the water which will push the garbage out. PVC pipe cant do this. If you have days with little to no water but a bunch of stuff coming off say your roof... Well all that gunk will sit in the pipe creating a block. Reason people still use one or the other is because one is not a clear winner.
Now for tree roots. The solution to that is tape, regular maintenance (some salt/tree killer in the line doesn't hurt) or getting the line snaked every few years. Unless you are placing the pipe near a bunch of trees you wont have any problems with roots for years. Roots only get that bad (generally) after 15 or so years of zero upkeep. You can plan your line to have very little connections... Y fitting here and maybe a T fitting there. Put a catch basin or access point near those areas and a home owner could self clean it
Corrugated pipe creates turbulence in steady flow!!!
Corrugated works great as field tile though. I would hate to even think about putting pvc pipe through a field.
I agree. PVC only seems to be worth it if you're interested in moving lots of water away from the foundation.
I would have loved to see a hose go into the corrugated to see how long it would have took to get water from it...
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Gate City - One thing I never see anyone discuss about corrugated drainage, before it fills with sediment and roots, its a breeding ground for mosquitos in all the little ribbed pools it creates... in areas with invasive species spreading diseases, this should be a constant topic.
Omg i never thought about this had a horrible time with going in back yard last year and couldn't stand all these mesquite bites. Our lawn and pest people got several calls regarding this issue and they even came back for an extra treatment. One thing that's changed is having a corrugated pipe in the ground to divert gutter water to keep it out of our garage.
Good point Bob! Plus the flow is not enough to blow out the mosquito larvae and pupae.
West Nile virus is carried by mosquitoes. They will even breed in those little ribs underground in corrugated pipe. That stuff is a health hazard in my opinion.
@C B C B - if you don't understand how roots get into pipes, call roto-rooter and I'm sure they could spend hours telling you some horror stories... drainage pipes are not solid end to end, water has to get in somehow, which means roots usually do too as they seek it out, before you respond with "I would just do x y z" its clear you have never seen 95% of the work done out there, even when done right, many systems still fill with some level of roots because has a plan of its own.
The rivets in corrugated pipe actually causes turbulence which flushes debris more effectively than internally-smooth pipe, and it can have perforation all around the pipe to help with absorption in a French drain application, whereas pvc will crack if drilled with too many holes. The problem is when people confuse french drain applications with solid-pipe gutter and surface water applications. That’s why the majority of corrugated pipe fails.
The argument by another RUclips channel is that the turbulence created by the ridges during a big rain cleans the pipe, but a smooth wall pipe doesn't have the turbulence. While I know they're full of hogwash a great test would be to run a garden hose through a length of pipe. Then add various contaminants. For instance testing sand, silt, pine needles and leaves. Adding small amounts at a time . Kind of like wind blown debris. And then lets see which one can handle it better. Maybe even dump a 5 gallon bucket of water at the end of the test to simulate a major storm "washing" the pipe. Keep up the good work. Schedule 40 all the way!
Keep in mind that every rib of the corrugated kills the kinetic energy of the flowing water. So there's no way to create turbulence from falling water without slowing it down. The only way to demonstrate that is by blasting a hose into a short section of pipe.
Let the battle begin! 🥊in this corner, we have PVC. In the other corner we have corrugated.
Hahah corrugated is only useful if you're not having real bad problems.
Pvc can't not handle the cold weather dick head your experimental was all lies french drain man can teach you how to install corrugated pipe the way it's supposed to be obviously you guys can't do it that's why you scam people out of there money by lieing to them about corrugated pipe when you know that pvc pipe is flawed period.
@@edwardgarrison2377 what’s funny is the French drain man has financial incentives to sell his pipe while he doesn’t get any commission on selling pvc….. Kinda hard to make money off of something you buy at every Lowe’s.
Great video..... How anyone can argue for corrugated pipe is beyond me. Have a great day.
I think they argue for corrugated because it is so much easier to work with. I've never installed it but I know how difficult schedule 40 is to get it right.
Its cheaper by a lot
Easier to install / User friendly
And much more forgiving with low slopes
And it pushes debris out better then pvc in low flow days (Ignoring this test with the pipe installed like a roller coaster. 5:55)
Can be cleaned the same way as PVC
A lot less weight
But PVC has its advantages
Easier to maintain proper slope
Sealed connections
I think its personally easier to work with just because its in straight lines but that's just me.
Im always told by home owners corrugated is easier due to bending it everywhere and not having to make connections... Makes sense
That's why you're not an engineer. Neither is GCFD.
Your "trench" is lumpy. corrugated works great with a properly dug and sloped trench.
That's why I placed both pipes next to each other. PVC is more forgiving when the trench is not perfectly flat in every single place. Way too much labor to dig a trench and delicately backfill it to ensure everything is perfectly flat.
Great information, I made up my mind about which pipe I will use. Cost is not my main issue I only want to do this job once. Thanks for the info.
To be fair, a consistently maintained slope is going to be absolutely critical to the single walled corrugated pipe. From my understanding, you need at least a consistent 2-3 degree slope throughout the pipe's layout and it doesn't appear you achieved that in your test setup.
A few other things:
In order to help prevent crap getting into the corrugated pipe, as well as to prevent leaks, any and all coupler joints really ought to be sealed up with PVC textile tape.
Any gutter down spout should include a vent as it enters the ground for debris flushing purposes and the underground line should run into a distribution catch basin in order to filter out the shingle debris.
Perhaps you should've also tested double walled corrugated piping that has the smooth inner wall which affords some tradeoff that can favor it between the two options you presented.
Thanks for your comments! I had wayy more than 3 degree slope here. Running a pipe into a catch basin kills the flow. I always keep water that's in a pipe, in a pipe. That's the only way to preserve the energy (flow) which is where the debris-carrying capacity comes from. I have never seen double wall corrugated used on a previous install which is why I didn't compare it. - Shawn
@@GCFD
Lets be honest here....The pipe looks like a roller coaster in your video. 5:55
Up down up down up down.
Does it impede the flow?? To truly test that you would need to connect both pipes to equally size barrels, then turn each valve on at the same time, and see which barrel empty’s first.
I would truly like to know. I get the idea that the corrugation can create turbulence which will then impede the flow of water. That is a very plausible hypothesis!
Let’s test it, then test it with different length pipes. You can also get corrugated that is not slotted.
As for debris, yes some will collect. Then once the corrugated is filled, does the rest flow on by? What if the pitch was increased?? At what pitch does it not matter??
I think it would be a lot of fun to really test these hypothesis with test that will truly give solid results.
So a test with a 50 gallon barrel, with plain water for each pipe that is equal length. Then add sediment, fine sand it like the grit from shingles, then 50 gallon, make sure pitch is the same, and see which one flows best, at what pitch, at what length is the corrugated good for?? Overall, you will know when and where corrugated would be a good option to save cost without the pitfalls that can come with it. It would also be fun to find out.
Curious how dual or triple walled corrugated with smooth interiors would stand up to the pvc. Any experience with these products or seen them fail? Seems they could be more cost effective and easier to install.
We use dual wall for 8" and larger culvert pipe
So questions: 1) So what about if the house region gets complicated and we need to turn corners and coming across tough objects in the ground or above the ground, would the corrugated pipe will become handy because it can bend at rough corners? 2) It has all the holes for some corrugated pipes and for that reason, the drain water could be caught up at all levels rather than the PVC pipes/pipe which are made with two holes or one hole the most? I know that we could put in a lot of "elbows" to connect the PVC pipes if coming towards rough corners. 3) Would you think that the corrugated pipes might just be used by lazy contractors, workmen and people who might not care and try to cut corners on job? Kindly answer the questions.
Have you tried any test with double wall corrugated pipes? I'd assume the flow test to be very similar to the PVC as there is no place for water / debris to hide in the double wall case.
Looking at nds website . Smooth wall PVC has roughly twice the flow rate corrugated . For the same nominal pipe size and same grade
Also another benefit, I would imagine PVC would be easier to clean out if it did become clogged.
Good one! You can use a power snake or jetter in PVC where a snake will destroy corrugated.
@@GCFD
Thats not true.
You can run a snake in corrugated with no problems.
@@bobshanery5152 you can on your property. Most contractors won't because they don't want to be responsible for the damage.
@@bobshanery5152 umm no, esp if the corrugated is clogged with tree roots-a rotor rooter will chew up pipe-you cna use special hi water pressure to clean out, but rotor rooter will charge more for thi ‘premium service’
Not apples and apples. Not all corrugated pipe has corrugated inner walls. People need to discover this fact. If this experiment used PERFORATED and/or corrugated pipe, then OF COURSE movement is impeded. Perforated/corrugated pipe should NEVER be used, say, for downspout dispersion. Perforated pipe is used typically for French drains and even then, a thick-walled corrugated is desirable. The rolls at Home Depot are indeed crap because they offer no strength and are corrugated inside and out.
Yes you never want to send water that's already in a pipe into a perforated pipe.
Joints on corrugated pipe should be taped together with a quality tile tape. Don’t blame the pipe for bad installation. There should be a clean out within a few feet of the downspouts to collect shingle gravel. PVC will build up with gravel.
Using the appropiate pipe for the application. Low slope, low flow use PVC. High slope high flow use ABS corrogated. You didn't seal the joints in the corrgated of course it's gonna leak before it got to the end of the pipe.
I'm using perfed/Corro for my french drain behind my retaining wall, unlike your setup I'm using a single piece of pipe no joints.
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Also with corrugated pipe you also have water in the pipe and if it gets cold enough it freezes and cracks in the winter time
Good point Brandon! We don't usually get weather cold enough to freeze underground pipes so I didn't think about that.
I'm pretty sure, you just somehow managed to open a portal into another dimension with your corrugated pipe and all the water you poured in landed on the shoulders of a now very angry monster there. Prepare your Witcher for incoming beasts.
No one ever knows where the water that enters a corrugated pipe ends up.
Being able to cut with kitchen scissors is always something I look for in construction materials that will be buried.
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