I want the next camera to be a Z7III, with these upgrades from the Z7II: * Expeed7 processor [this will definitely happen]. * The buttons on the top left, similar to the D850/D810/D800/D700/.../N8008, going all the way back to 1988. * Perhaps a few mm thicker and taller. Perhaps. Separate the Z7 and Z6 series in body design. * $3000-3300 What I do not want in the Z7III, and why it should not be a Z8: * 61mp. Nobody notices the 17% difference in resolution. Landscape photographers especially should want to avoid that, because of diffraction. Yes, 46mp has become the sweet spot because it allows 8kDCI. Going to 61mp requires a crop (A7IV has a 1.24 crop) or a lot more processing power. * A stacked sensor. Yes, that would be more expensive, and it would have overheating issues. The Z9 avoids the overheating because the integrated grip, and size in general. A "Baby Z9" would lack the giant heat sink, limiting its effective performance, even if some features are there 'on paper'. This also limits some of the video options, including some internal recording levels. Without the readout speed of the stacked sensor, the AF will be better than the Z7II with the faster processor, but the Z9 will still be better overall with the faster sensor readout. Nikon has not had a full frame digital $4k camera, going with the $3k and >$5k price levels. It seems unreasonable for them to support cameras at each price point: $1.4, $2k, $3k, $4k, and $5.5-6k with the Z5, Z6, Z7, Z8, Z9 series. Four work, five would be one too many, with too little to differentiate the Z7 from both the Z6 and Z8. The $3k price point has been very effective for Nikon. It seems unnecessary to replace that with a $4k camera, just because Sony and Canon have cameras there. All of this happened because the Z7 had a few drawbacks compared to the D850: 1 card slot, no vertical grip, fewer buttons, and weaker AF. That made people say it is not a mirrorless, when in every other way it was. For most photographers using a D850, getting a Z7II with the vertical grip will quickly become natural. The Z7III adding the Expeed7 will seal the deal while allowing (limited) 8K-30 and perhaps 4K-120. For the photographer who wants all the things the Z9 had, I have a suggestion: get the Z8+1. Accept the larger size as the requirement to get all the performance that photographer craves.
To be clear - you are asking for pro UI in the buttons - that is a major differentiator between the Z7 line and a pro line and one of several reasons it is not a D850 successor, and why the Z7 line is prosumer and not pro. A Z8 would have pro UI, which also includes in addition to everything mentioned lighted buttons. Your diffraction point is relevant but not that bad at 61MP. Stacked sensor - I'm neither here not there on that issue for this camera - it is not needed strictly speaking for its use case. The gap at the moment is the $4k price point which Nikon will fill. I disagree with your assessment that a Z7III with just the expeed 7 would make it a D850 - it has prosumer AI and that is a major and important difference - if they change this it will not be a Z7III but a Z8. I agree with you completely that people that want Z9 (or close) performance need to accept a bigger body - I prefer a bigger body on a Z8 - it would be better for using larger and heavier lenses on it. the Z6/7 body frame is great for travel and events. I like how you think though - even though I do not always agree. You are clearly a thinker and that I love :) -PD
@photographydiscourse1185 I agree with wanting the dial and buttons on the left side of the top plate. Besides that, pros will have to adapt to this being the "pro UI" instead of lamenting things from the past. The D800/D810 did not have lighted buttons, those do not make something a "pro UI". The trend is towards more being done using the touchscreen instead of dedicated buttons. I do like buttons more too, and getting four more on the top left should address almost any photographer's needs. Anything more, and we've got the Z8+1, released in 2021. As for the size difference between the D850 and Z7II, the Z7III/Z8 might be about 10mm taller and 5mm deeper, considering the comparison between the D6 and Z9. But the Z7II + vertical grip is very comfortable with larger and heavier lenses. There is no gap in the $4 price point because Nikon has never had a full frame digital camera at that price point. The last one was the D2H, 20 years ago.
@@UnconventionalReasoning Hi AM - again I think you make some interesting points, but again I do not share your opinions on some of them. I do not think that because lighted buttons were not a thing on some pro UI cameras in the past means that they will discontinue doing this. To the contrary, the Z9 proves that they will continue to do this for this type of body, and the fact that they have not had a $4k price point in the past, does not mean that they will not introduce one - although you could be right on this point, I just don't think that you are. I agree that that the Z6/7 with the added grip is quite comfortable and I use it that way for my portraiture, but not for events. For events, I prefer the smaller form factor. I still think that a Z8 (without a grip) needs to be a slightly more robust camera than the Z6/7, and that it will have all the same pro UI as the Z9 minus the buttons that are on the extended grip area - but that is just an opinion and I could be wrong. In the end, we will both have to see what happens, but one thing is certain - we both have a passion for photography and specifically for Nikon - lets keep the discourse going and see what happens! I'd love to see you over on my channel where we can follow this discussion as things develop in real time going forward :) -PD
I agree that the z8 makes the z line very crowded but I am concerned the z7 line is the odd man out. Nikon has its sites set on competing directly with the canon r5 (which has been one of the most successful cameras of the last decade). Could they just have the z7iii do that by giving it a new body and better video specs? Sure. But sometime last year a Nikon executive shared that Nikon considers the z6 and 7 line on the same level as the d700 series which implies that a d800 level camera is coming.
@@summitbid Agreed - the Z7 body is not good enough now, nor is it competitive with the R5 as it stands let alone the D850 for that matter. I also agree it does not make sense to retro fit the Z7 into a higher line of body and yes it is true that Nikon already stated that these cameras (Z6/7) are D700 series level - this is a bit confusing as I believe the D700 had a pro UI interface, but the D750/780 do not using the same mode dial etc as the Z6/7. So what exactly Nikon means by the D700 series is hard to say, but it does definitely differentiate it from the D8XX series, which was always a pro line. Either way, I think there will be a Z8 that will have the same pro UI as the Z9, D850, D5/6 etc. -PD
I am largely in agreement with what you want/think that this camera (the Z8) should and will be. Where I differ: I think they do need reverse compatible/same form factor batteries. This does not mean that they cannot redesign the current battery to be stronger - the Sony battery is not appreciably bigger than the Nikon battery - not sure if it stores more power of if the Sony bodies are just more efficient - either way Nikon can do the same in the next generation of camera. I completely agree with you that this camera is intended to replace the D850, and as such we would expect it to over deliver for stills - and yes for megapixels as well. 45MP was staggering when the D850 released - the D810 had 36MP and that was already considered very high resolution in 2017. I could imagine a Z8 with 80MP - this is still a smaller pixel density than what Fuji recently did with the X-H2 which has 40 MP on an APS-C sensor akin to something like 90 MP full frame, and we know the Z lenses are capable of resolving very high resolutions - way above 45MP. With Nikon's new HE and HE* compression algorithms and if they reintroduce a Large, Medium and Small RAW shooting format, it would be possible for this camera to be everything to everyone - you could shoot massive and amazing 80MP files for your landscape stuff, I could shoot 45MP files for my portraiture (or 80 if I was feeling like it), and I could shoot at like 25 for my event work. Someone that wanted to save space could shoot Small RAW with HE compression and have a file that was around 8-10MB. This would be a camera that can do it all for all use cases - think D850. I think it would probably be 12-15 max with a mechanical shutter - probably faster electronic but I do not think it will be a stacked senor - just a very fast CMOS BSI sensor - as such the electronic shutter for fast action will not be the best choice and this camera will be very good at 12-15 FPS at action, but not as good as the Z9 - and of course it should not be. If you want to shoot sports/action/wildlife, the Z9 is the camera for you. As far as video, I agree that it should endeavor to get as much of the video capability into it as is possible from the Z9, but it will not have the same massive record times. This would be physically impossible. Nikon has included a massive heat sink at the base of the Z9 due to the large body - this is something that they will not be able to replicate on a Z8 - so there may be recording limitations like 30-40 minutes for 8k instead of 2+ hours. I don't think this is a problem however, as the Z9 is the flagship and intended to be the ultimate camera. Here are two videos I have made about the upcoming Z8 - I'd love for your to check them out and let me know your thoughts. The first is called, "Nikon Z8 - It should be a high Mega Pixel Camera and it will be! 🙂" ruclips.net/video/Vo-nVAwUclU/видео.html The second is called "Nikon Z8: What Will It Be??? A friendly response to my friend FramesTM's recent video..." ruclips.net/video/tbGr386AxdM/видео.html Hope you enjoy! -PD
We have a mirrorless D850, it's the Z7II. Seriously, though, photographers need to remember the mantra they love, "It's the photographer, not the camera!" and stop whining about an imperfect camera. These cameras can do 90% of what we might think of doing, and it's on us to adjust for the remaining 10%. Or go to Sony, chase features all day, celebrate the amazing eye-AF, and take truly boring images.
@@UnconventionalReasoning I respectfully disagree - there are many reasons - let me know if you'd like me to elaborate and I will when I have a chance. In the meantime, you can watch the videos I have made on this topic - the links are included in my original comment above. -PD
For me the Z8 needs to have the top left mode dial like on the Z9/ D8xx/700/200 series cameras. Plus a proper articulating screen, i have health issues and cannot get down very low to try and look through my viewfinder to compose / focus on my Z7. Also a return of the 10 pin connector for remotes, using the usb socket for my remote on my Z7 has caused an issue that now means i have to send my camera off for repair. 45mp will be fine for me, although a bump to 50mp will also be good. I would also like to see a couple of options the way canon implement them in the R5 etc. None destructive option for the aspect ratio choice, where guide lines are used and can be included in the metadata to show the crop in LR etc, 2nd would be how Canon has the bulb mode feature set up, but improve it. With canon you choose bulb mode and then have to go back into the menu to enable the timer setting part and then you get an on screen fully adjustable timer option, from 0 sec to 24 hours. Nikon could do similar, but once bulb mode is selected, have the timer screen show up automatically. Video i am not bothered about, but what they could do is have the 4k/8k video features but limit the camera to 4k options only to keep the price down. Then if anyone wants/needs the 8k features pay an extra fee to have them unlocked.
It’s always frustrating to pay for features that you don’t use… it’s honestly extremely common with cameras being released now… I like the idea you had of paying to unlock features after purchasing the camera… it’s certainly a business model used in other industries (and Panasonic tried it with log profiles in gh5)… we may discuss this in our next live show!
@@summitbid Well Nikon did it with the original Z7 and a video feature. Personally i think it's a way forward, as a landscape photographer i would never use 8k anyway. Although no doubt as soon as companies start charging for ''extras'' that are already in the camera, people will moan about that too. It might also be worth having the unlockable features being able to be done by a dealer rather than by Canon/ Nikon etc. So you can walk in and say i need X feature unlocked please, even if you have to wait an extra day for it. Or even supply dealers with the base version and unlocked versions, rather than having to buy a body, ship it back to Nikon or whoever and wait a couple of weeks for it to be returned.
@@nickcarneyphotography Good point. Pay 30% more for 17% more resolution, and have to "fix" the colors in post every time. Thanks, I'll take the simplicity of using Nikon cameras.
@@UnconventionalReasoning I'm not saying to buy it, but you said Summit's idea was a unicorn implying it couldn't exist, and I'm saying it already exists in Sony, so why can't Nikon just use the same sensor in a Z8? Unless I misunderstood.
Well ,, I think Nikon should leave the Z6, Z7 behind .. they have created they very best camera of all time ... the Z9....keep upgrading the flagship .... jump on board or ... get left behind. ... don't hate the player ... hate the game. And yes I own a Z9.
Not true. There is a place for the Z6 and Z7 cameras. The Z5 is a series they should ditch. A Z8 is what is needed. The camera is sitting in warehouses waiting to be shipped.
The z6 in particular is a critical camera Line for Nikon. I hope they really kill it when they release the z6iii. The z7 series is more problematic. Do they go ultra high res? Or more likely it will get 61mp but lower video specs and not as capable body design.
Get the Z9 and you will not think about getting or waiting for another camera
We actually have a 40min review of the z9 on our channel I think you will enjoy 😉
I need a smaller and cheaper Z9 version.
@@skydj100I’ve got good news for you
Well I’m sitting here with it in my hands. The store has 2 more!!! Very excited. Upgrading from D850
Awesome! I hope to have mine early next week with a video to follow soon after
I want the next camera to be a Z7III, with these upgrades from the Z7II:
* Expeed7 processor [this will definitely happen].
* The buttons on the top left, similar to the D850/D810/D800/D700/.../N8008, going all the way back to 1988.
* Perhaps a few mm thicker and taller. Perhaps. Separate the Z7 and Z6 series in body design.
* $3000-3300
What I do not want in the Z7III, and why it should not be a Z8:
* 61mp. Nobody notices the 17% difference in resolution. Landscape photographers especially should want to avoid that, because of diffraction. Yes, 46mp has become the sweet spot because it allows 8kDCI. Going to 61mp requires a crop (A7IV has a 1.24 crop) or a lot more processing power.
* A stacked sensor. Yes, that would be more expensive, and it would have overheating issues. The Z9 avoids the overheating because the integrated grip, and size in general. A "Baby Z9" would lack the giant heat sink, limiting its effective performance, even if some features are there 'on paper'. This also limits some of the video options, including some internal recording levels. Without the readout speed of the stacked sensor, the AF will be better than the Z7II with the faster processor, but the Z9 will still be better overall with the faster sensor readout.
Nikon has not had a full frame digital $4k camera, going with the $3k and >$5k price levels. It seems unreasonable for them to support cameras at each price point: $1.4, $2k, $3k, $4k, and $5.5-6k with the Z5, Z6, Z7, Z8, Z9 series. Four work, five would be one too many, with too little to differentiate the Z7 from both the Z6 and Z8. The $3k price point has been very effective for Nikon. It seems unnecessary to replace that with a $4k camera, just because Sony and Canon have cameras there.
All of this happened because the Z7 had a few drawbacks compared to the D850: 1 card slot, no vertical grip, fewer buttons, and weaker AF. That made people say it is not a mirrorless, when in every other way it was. For most photographers using a D850, getting a Z7II with the vertical grip will quickly become natural. The Z7III adding the Expeed7 will seal the deal while allowing (limited) 8K-30 and perhaps 4K-120.
For the photographer who wants all the things the Z9 had, I have a suggestion: get the Z8+1. Accept the larger size as the requirement to get all the performance that photographer craves.
To be clear - you are asking for pro UI in the buttons - that is a major differentiator between the Z7 line and a pro line and one of several reasons it is not a D850 successor, and why the Z7 line is prosumer and not pro. A Z8 would have pro UI, which also includes in addition to everything mentioned lighted buttons.
Your diffraction point is relevant but not that bad at 61MP.
Stacked sensor - I'm neither here not there on that issue for this camera - it is not needed strictly speaking for its use case.
The gap at the moment is the $4k price point which Nikon will fill.
I disagree with your assessment that a Z7III with just the expeed 7 would make it a D850 - it has prosumer AI and that is a major and important difference - if they change this it will not be a Z7III but a Z8.
I agree with you completely that people that want Z9 (or close) performance need to accept a bigger body - I prefer a bigger body on a Z8 - it would be better for using larger and heavier lenses on it. the Z6/7 body frame is great for travel and events.
I like how you think though - even though I do not always agree. You are clearly a thinker and that I love :)
-PD
@photographydiscourse1185 I agree with wanting the dial and buttons on the left side of the top plate. Besides that, pros will have to adapt to this being the "pro UI" instead of lamenting things from the past. The D800/D810 did not have lighted buttons, those do not make something a "pro UI". The trend is towards more being done using the touchscreen instead of dedicated buttons. I do like buttons more too, and getting four more on the top left should address almost any photographer's needs. Anything more, and we've got the Z8+1, released in 2021.
As for the size difference between the D850 and Z7II, the Z7III/Z8 might be about 10mm taller and 5mm deeper, considering the comparison between the D6 and Z9. But the Z7II + vertical grip is very comfortable with larger and heavier lenses.
There is no gap in the $4 price point because Nikon has never had a full frame digital camera at that price point. The last one was the D2H, 20 years ago.
@@UnconventionalReasoning Hi AM - again I think you make some interesting points, but again I do not share your opinions on some of them. I do not think that because lighted buttons were not a thing on some pro UI cameras in the past means that they will discontinue doing this. To the contrary, the Z9 proves that they will continue to do this for this type of body, and the fact that they have not had a $4k price point in the past, does not mean that they will not introduce one - although you could be right on this point, I just don't think that you are.
I agree that that the Z6/7 with the added grip is quite comfortable and I use it that way for my portraiture, but not for events. For events, I prefer the smaller form factor. I still think that a Z8 (without a grip) needs to be a slightly more robust camera than the Z6/7, and that it will have all the same pro UI as the Z9 minus the buttons that are on the extended grip area - but that is just an opinion and I could be wrong.
In the end, we will both have to see what happens, but one thing is certain - we both have a passion for photography and specifically for Nikon - lets keep the discourse going and see what happens! I'd love to see you over on my channel where we can follow this discussion as things develop in real time going forward :)
-PD
I agree that the z8 makes the z line very crowded but I am concerned the z7 line is the odd man out. Nikon has its sites set on competing directly with the canon r5 (which has been one of the most successful cameras of the last decade). Could they just have the z7iii do that by giving it a new body and better video specs? Sure. But sometime last year a Nikon executive shared that Nikon considers the z6 and 7 line on the same level as the d700 series which implies that a d800 level camera is coming.
@@summitbid Agreed - the Z7 body is not good enough now, nor is it competitive with the R5 as it stands let alone the D850 for that matter.
I also agree it does not make sense to retro fit the Z7 into a higher line of body and yes it is true that Nikon already stated that these cameras (Z6/7) are D700 series level - this is a bit confusing as I believe the D700 had a pro UI interface, but the D750/780 do not using the same mode dial etc as the Z6/7. So what exactly Nikon means by the D700 series is hard to say, but it does definitely differentiate it from the D8XX series, which was always a pro line.
Either way, I think there will be a Z8 that will have the same pro UI as the Z9, D850, D5/6 etc.
-PD
I am largely in agreement with what you want/think that this camera (the Z8) should and will be. Where I differ: I think they do need reverse compatible/same form factor batteries. This does not mean that they cannot redesign the current battery to be stronger - the Sony battery is not appreciably bigger than the Nikon battery - not sure if it stores more power of if the Sony bodies are just more efficient - either way Nikon can do the same in the next generation of camera.
I completely agree with you that this camera is intended to replace the D850, and as such we would expect it to over deliver for stills - and yes for megapixels as well. 45MP was staggering when the D850 released - the D810 had 36MP and that was already considered very high resolution in 2017. I could imagine a Z8 with 80MP - this is still a smaller pixel density than what Fuji recently did with the X-H2 which has 40 MP on an APS-C sensor akin to something like 90 MP full frame, and we know the Z lenses are capable of resolving very high resolutions - way above 45MP.
With Nikon's new HE and HE* compression algorithms and if they reintroduce a Large, Medium and Small RAW shooting format, it would be possible for this camera to be everything to everyone - you could shoot massive and amazing 80MP files for your landscape stuff, I could shoot 45MP files for my portraiture (or 80 if I was feeling like it), and I could shoot at like 25 for my event work. Someone that wanted to save space could shoot Small RAW with HE compression and have a file that was around 8-10MB. This would be a camera that can do it all for all use cases - think D850.
I think it would probably be 12-15 max with a mechanical shutter - probably faster electronic but I do not think it will be a stacked senor - just a very fast CMOS BSI sensor - as such the electronic shutter for fast action will not be the best choice and this camera will be very good at 12-15 FPS at action, but not as good as the Z9 - and of course it should not be. If you want to shoot sports/action/wildlife, the Z9 is the camera for you.
As far as video, I agree that it should endeavor to get as much of the video capability into it as is possible from the Z9, but it will not have the same massive record times. This would be physically impossible. Nikon has included a massive heat sink at the base of the Z9 due to the large body - this is something that they will not be able to replicate on a Z8 - so there may be recording limitations like 30-40 minutes for 8k instead of 2+ hours. I don't think this is a problem however, as the Z9 is the flagship and intended to be the ultimate camera.
Here are two videos I have made about the upcoming Z8 - I'd love for your to check them out and let me know your thoughts.
The first is called, "Nikon Z8 - It should be a high Mega Pixel Camera and it will be! 🙂" ruclips.net/video/Vo-nVAwUclU/видео.html
The second is called "Nikon Z8: What Will It Be??? A friendly response to my friend FramesTM's recent video..." ruclips.net/video/tbGr386AxdM/видео.html
Hope you enjoy!
-PD
We have a mirrorless D850, it's the Z7II.
Seriously, though, photographers need to remember the mantra they love, "It's the photographer, not the camera!" and stop whining about an imperfect camera. These cameras can do 90% of what we might think of doing, and it's on us to adjust for the remaining 10%. Or go to Sony, chase features all day, celebrate the amazing eye-AF, and take truly boring images.
@@UnconventionalReasoning I respectfully disagree - there are many reasons - let me know if you'd like me to elaborate and I will when I have a chance. In the meantime, you can watch the videos I have made on this topic - the links are included in my original comment above.
-PD
@@photographydiscourse1185 Yes, I've commented on both your Z8 videos. And your "Timber... AD600Pro". 😅
@@UnconventionalReasoning Great - then you can see how the Z7II doesn't cut it as a true D850 replacement :)
@@photographydiscourse1185 Yes, the only true D850 replacement is a... D850. 🤣
For me the Z8 needs to have the top left mode dial like on the Z9/ D8xx/700/200 series cameras. Plus a proper articulating screen, i have health issues and cannot get down very low to try and look through my viewfinder to compose / focus on my Z7. Also a return of the 10 pin connector for remotes, using the usb socket for my remote on my Z7 has caused an issue that now means i have to send my camera off for repair. 45mp will be fine for me, although a bump to 50mp will also be good. I would also like to see a couple of options the way canon implement them in the R5 etc. None destructive option for the aspect ratio choice, where guide lines are used and can be included in the metadata to show the crop in LR etc, 2nd would be how Canon has the bulb mode feature set up, but improve it. With canon you choose bulb mode and then have to go back into the menu to enable the timer setting part and then you get an on screen fully adjustable timer option, from 0 sec to 24 hours. Nikon could do similar, but once bulb mode is selected, have the timer screen show up automatically. Video i am not bothered about, but what they could do is have the 4k/8k video features but limit the camera to 4k options only to keep the price down. Then if anyone wants/needs the 8k features pay an extra fee to have them unlocked.
It’s always frustrating to pay for features that you don’t use… it’s honestly extremely common with cameras being released now… I like the idea you had of paying to unlock features after purchasing the camera… it’s certainly a business model used in other industries (and Panasonic tried it with log profiles in gh5)… we may discuss this in our next live show!
@@summitbid Well Nikon did it with the original Z7 and a video feature. Personally i think it's a way forward, as a landscape photographer i would never use 8k anyway. Although no doubt as soon as companies start charging for ''extras'' that are already in the camera, people will moan about that too. It might also be worth having the unlockable features being able to be done by a dealer rather than by Canon/ Nikon etc. So you can walk in and say i need X feature unlocked please, even if you have to wait an extra day for it. Or even supply dealers with the base version and unlocked versions, rather than having to buy a body, ship it back to Nikon or whoever and wait a couple of weeks for it to be returned.
It needs z9 AF - the A7R5 screen - 10 bit video - bonus Nikon sell the Tamron 20-40. 🔥 £2500
I think Nikon will either get the tamron 20-40 or sell a re-branded Nikon version… but I think we get the 70-180 first.
So, basically a z9?
Yeah, without the grip and stacked sensor, slightly more MP and a lower price tag
@@summitbid so, a unicorn?
@@UnconventionalReasoning It's an A7RV it's not that hard to imagine.
@@nickcarneyphotography Good point. Pay 30% more for 17% more resolution, and have to "fix" the colors in post every time. Thanks, I'll take the simplicity of using Nikon cameras.
@@UnconventionalReasoning I'm not saying to buy it, but you said Summit's idea was a unicorn implying it couldn't exist, and I'm saying it already exists in Sony, so why can't Nikon just use the same sensor in a Z8? Unless I misunderstood.
Well ,, I think Nikon should leave the Z6, Z7 behind .. they have created they very best camera of all time ... the Z9....keep upgrading the flagship .... jump on board or ... get left behind. ... don't hate the player ... hate the game. And yes I own a Z9.
Not true. There is a place for the Z6 and Z7 cameras. The Z5 is a series they should ditch.
A Z8 is what is needed. The camera is sitting in warehouses waiting to be shipped.
The z6 in particular is a critical camera Line for Nikon. I hope they really kill it when they release the z6iii. The z7 series is more problematic. Do they go ultra high res? Or more likely it will get 61mp but lower video specs and not as capable body design.