Contrivances in My Hero Academia
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- Опубликовано: 12 авг 2020
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I feel like critics just use fancy words like these to sound smart, because the gullible people who can't see through their facade will actually think they know what they're talking about.
Facts
They think being verbose = smart
Just Some Guy without a Mustache fancy words = any word which the person is too dumb and idiotic to understand
By chance do you know Just Some Guy With a Mustache? you guys got the same pfp and similar names and comments and are everywhere.
*nods* My Man u right
It can’t be contrived it hasn’t even started.
For the second example, I feel like Horikoshi just wanted to set up the vestiges, because he really wasn't forced into using a contrivance to get Deku out of that situation. I mean, he literally set up a way for Deku not to be in that situation when Ojiro told him about Shinsou's quirk...and Deku proceeded to forget that because his classmate got insulted lol
He could have made the meeting of them on the cliff make sense. If Muscular was only going on this mission for the chance to kill Kota for avenging his eye that would make more sense. He was looking for him and found out where he was by beating the information out of Ragdoll. That is why she was crying later when they found her. She thought she killed Kota by talking. Then the likely hood goes way up and doesn't seem odd at all.
I think with the second Contrivance;
when all might said that Deku is making One for all is own power, I think what he meant by that is that one for all is literally evolving with Deku.
Then in the manga the explanation was that, one for all IS evolving with Deku, and because it is evolving with Deku, it's evolved so much that he has the power to use other quirks from the previous users.
which is bullshit lol
@@TheDarkAdventure not really the term quirk singularity was a concept that existed before that revaluation so it's only natural that over time ofa would evolve beyond passing on raw physical power one for all by all mights definition is a stock piling quirk so it only makes since that quirks are passed on as well as the physical power it just hasn't happened before izuku because it hasn't reached the singularity it hasn't evolved enough to do that until now
@@thatoneblackdude3333 Exactly, people don't like so they say it's bs. It's not bs (since there is reasonable rationale given that you can make a conclusion about), they just don't like it or fail to understand the concept. It makes sense with the concepts of quirk singularity (a concept introduced earlier in the series) knowing that OFA can evolve. People then say 'Why didn't All Might have the quirks then?" Well All Might cultivated the power to it's max potential at the time (Nana died young, he had the power the longest of any user seemingly to make it as strong as it is as he was the closest to defeat AFO) so it make sense the next evolution of that is unlocking the quirks stored within OFA.
Rae Coc i don’t have a problem with that. My problem is that he was told to not do one thing and he still still did the one thing that would cause him to lose. At that point when you’re given all the prep you need and still can’t get through on your own, having something like this save him is annoying
@@jamaineelmore5722 I'm not sure you mean in relation to what I was saying... I was talking about OFA in general (in relation to quirk singularity), not about the battle with Shinso, if that's what you are referring to. lol
The actual biggest contrivance in MHA is Todoroki not icing the entire alleyway and freezinng Stain during their battle. We see this man use massive amounts of ice and fire during the hero festival arc and then he’s in an enclosed area with a villian directly in front of him and he somehow can’t insta freeze Stain and the entire surrounding area.
I’m glad that the one of the dumbest contrivances is just two people artificiality meeting and they had ZERO relevance to the main plot at all
But I thought that Deku fighting Muscular was important.
1. It was because of Dekus injuries that Bakugou got captured
2. It changed the way Deku thinks. (Mom told him he's killing himself to save people and you're killing my heart, so stop and gtfo of u.a"
Deku makes shoot style because it'll help his arms not get hurt as much. Also he became less and less reckless, literally the next day he says he has a plan to NOT attack the villains. And it worked, though he had to make another one.
3. Kota has hope in heroes after Deku fought, he saw how much a hero sacrifices for someone who they don't know, in the end Kota realises that his parents did the same, thus restoring his faith in heroes. and obviously having Deku become his inspiration.
arn't these all points that matter?
ALL of these matter BUT you are talking about Midoriya vs Muscular, not the contrivence with Muscular and Koda
@@PaladZerkGamerGF ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
maybe one point is that if they didn't meet then Deku would never have came and then Kota would never have been inspired :D
Honestly don’t like 90% of stories do this all the time? At this point complaining about that is like complaining about the main character not dying. It’s been like that for freaking decades
imagine being a mouse no it’s simply that Muscular is the one that killed Kotas parents
Contrivance is mandatory for anything not the simplest form of slice of life. If you’re watching or reading a fantastical story, obviously there’s gonna be contrivances. if there’s nothing coincidental, we’ll yeah nothing will happen
Are you telling me that it's not very common in real life to meet some buff dude that tells you to eat his hair and said I could become a hero?
...wait
Isaiah Winfrey no bullshit, that has actually happened once
if one of the worst contrivances in mha is "these two people met that makes no sense" then there probably aren't all that many bad contrivances in mha
that is correct!
@@Oceaniz
I disagree, the contrivances are that Deku keeps meeting these people, being in the right place and the right time and despite the threat of his life, he always manages to defeat the enemy with the only major damage being self-inflicted. It feels like you're under-handing why people criticize it
@@Laiser You could say the same for literally any story. Harrry Potter meeting the Weasleys on Platform 9 3/4 is hella contrived, yet him meeting them and him developing a relationship with the family literally shapes the course of the series. This isn't some issue only MHA has and every other story has magically avoided.
Laiser Because that’s just how the world is sometimes. I’ve always disagreed with people when they say something in a fictional universe is contrived or unrealistic because our OWN world is equally illogical and unrealistic. You claim it’s unrealistic that Deku meets all these main villains seemingly at the right times, I claim it’s equally unrealistic that a young Korean man conscripted into the Japanese army survives the Japanese clash with Soviet troops, gets captured by those Soviets, gets drafted into a Soviet Penal Battalion, survives his units clash with German troops, gets captured AGAIN by those Germans, gets drafted AGAIN by those Germans to serve on the Western Front, then survives his units clash with Allied troops and gets captured AGAIN only to survive till the end of the war as a POW, going back to his home country to live out the rest of his life. Our whole history is built upon stupid bs that never should’ve happened yet did anyway, cause the Universe doesn’t care what we think is contrived or illogical.
@@Laiser But that's just how OFA is. It's this overwhelming power that can get you through the toughest of obstacles, but at an extreme risk to your personal safety. It's a very overt metaphor for the story's definition of heroism, to fight for a better world no matter the cost.
In defense of Code Geass: Lulu had EVERYTHING planned and he admitted that he would work with Euphemia. The fact his geass randomly became strong felt like a breath of fresh air to me. It was something neither planned for or accounted for in anyway.
Lelouch had prior information of geass taking over from CC and mao. His geass was overacting before on the streets. The author written him as some super genius who have plans for pretty much aby situation. And yet he didnt plan for something that he already knew. Not to mention in the second season the permanent geass wasnt even used anymore cause contacts.... wow.
I always thought Midoriya saving Kota from Muscular was saving Kota from hating heroes and instead admiring midoriya stopping him from becoming "Kota"ro Shimura, who hated heroes for his mother also dying at the hands of a villain like Kota, and then enforced the idea of hating heroes on his children, i think?
Yes, but Muscular didn't have to be the one who killed Kota's parents. He could've just been any other bloodthirsty villain.
@@najadamu2724 don't contrivances have to be forced? But Muscular and Kota meeting wasn't by force, it was just a coincidence.
Contrivance is an act which defies suspension of disbelief. If you introduce a contrivance at the beginning like "a man has super strength and the ability to fly because he is an alien," an audience will be able to opt out early if they can't accept it, and lose zero investment. If you introduce one at the end like "spinning the earth turns back time" it undermines people's suspension of disbelief when they have already become invested in the story. This is the difference between premise and contrivance.
Lmaoo superman. That movie was dumb
@@kappastar4839 The ending was very dumb, the rest was absolutely brilliant.
So, as a consumer of media I feel that contrivances are more of a “Hey look, this is why this story is worth telling, can you believe how unlikely this was and how it changed things as a result? Amazing!” Not that it can’t be done poorly.
The event in Code Geass isn't a contrivance. A few episodes beforehand, Lelouch's power had begun activating unintentionally. We know this could happen as the audience. When he meets yuffie he's explaining his power to her. He's making a point by saying he could even make her do something that she would never ever do. He's explaining just how powerful his ability is by using such an extreme example. The ability activates, by accident, sure, but we know this happens by now.
When?
I had thought about this before, but think about this there are millions of people in the world but the anime just focuses on deku because of this unlikely encounter which makes him special. Take the Beatles for example, 4 incredibly talented people miraculously meeting and forming a band, super unlikely but that is exactly why the are the one of the most famous bands in the world. This is also why deku is the main character. The anime could focus on the normal people but that wouldnt be fun would it?
great vid, deserves way more views
The very act of storytelling is a contrivance. What matters is how well you can obscure it. Or... How absurd you can make it and have it dangling in the open.
Wow, crazy I forgot to watch this video when it came out.
Pretty good explanation of contrivances and how mha uses them.
This also enforces one of my biggest gripes with MHA.
The first Muscular fight.
God, the fight itself has some problems but even worse is that the setup for this one is horrendous.
In my uneducatedly humble, but not really, opinion :
Stain should have been the one to kill Kota's parents.
Not only does this make Stain more relevant (not like he isn't already, but you know, more stuff doesn't hurt) but it makes for a great continuation from season 2 in a similar fashion to the transition between Overhaul and Cultural Festival (mainly the fact that in one arc you deal with a villain and the next one you deal with the consequences the victims have to go through).
We hear Stain has killed 17 heroes, but we never see or find out anything about them.
Plus this could give Iida something to do, he literally does nothing this season until after the raid already finished.
Maybe he finds out about Kota's past and tries to talk to him about it since he can relate or something.
We could also give Muscular, you know, an actual character beyond "I like to fight".
I always liked the idea that Muscular could on the surface be a huge fan of Stain, kinda like Spinner, and preach about heroes being corrupt and something needs to be done about it, but it is only a facade he puts up so he has an excuse to kill people.
Since Deku already confronted Stain and has talked with Shigaraki at this point he could figure out that Muscular is full of crap and confront him about it which is when Muscular drops the act and just goes full bloodlust mode.
Kota could still freak out when Muscular mentions Stain like he does in the show and then the fight can go the same way it does there as well.
Boom, I just made Muscular an actual three dimensional character and improve the setup for this fight while keeping what happens mostly the same.
I spent so much time thinking about Muscular, because everyone always likes his fight with Deku but I just always thought he was the most boring antagonist in the series and that the fight, while cool and emotional, is poorly thought out and executed imo, especially the setup for it.
Hmm, I took the moment where All Might at the Sports Festival said "You made the Quirk your own", as Deku coming to the realization that he is unable to master One for All imitating All Might and how he utilizes the Quirk. Basically, Horikoshi moving us to Costume Gama and Full Cowl from Alpha, or Deku's completing his young age. The main reason being, Horikoshi has been feeding us the "Deku must make the quirk his own" narrative, and I feel it's criminal no one recognizes this.
Another factor to consider when it comes to the criticism of contrivances is how much it trivializes the story. In the same vein that people dislike losing an hour-long roguelike run due to a bad dice roll, people don't appreciate the outcome of a well-developed conflict being determined by freak happenstance. A character finding a winning lottery ticket on the ground is extremely unlikely, but it's fine as a start to the story since it's assumed that the conflict will follow as a result of the ticket. Compare to a situation where the same ticket is used to get the MC out of a long-standing debt that's plagued for 200 chapters, and then the story ends with a happy ending.
If we apply trivialization as a z-axis for the graph, the One for All vestiges would be the furthest in the red on that line. It's the only one of the three that resolves a conflict and lacks the cause to justify its effect. It trivializes the conflict, both by resolving it through a previously unmentioned power and by having Shinso lose the fight through no fault of his own.
All Might meeting Deku can be considered equivalent to the lottery ticket example. It does solve one of Deku's problems but replaces it with many more. One For All is also defined as a very specific power than can only be given to one person, so it doesn't trivialize the plight of the quirkless either.
And then the Muscular/Koda situation, while horrendously contrived, doesn't have any plot relevance as indicated in this video. Muscular being the one that killed Koda's parents could be fully ignored or removed without changing anything about the story. In this sense, it puts it at the origin of the trivialization scale. It neither raises the stakes nor lowers them, considering it doesn't actually do anything with the personal connection.
Interesting to consider.
I might have the answer on why deku had to fight muscular simply because nobody else in the Vanguard action squad have a brawler type quirk and deku has mostly a brawler type quirk he cannot fight dabi because dabi has a ranged type quirk, spinner has sword type quirk, magnum has a heavy grapple type quirk so if you think of it is not a contrivance since it makes sense and in it has been proven that nobody can have the same quirk unless it was like one for all and shigaraki said the best they have so muscular being the person who killed two pro heroes so he was called
I never actually thought that much about how contrived it was that Kota happened to run into the man who killed his parents on that rock, probably because it was largely overshadowed by Deku's character moment against Muscular and becoming Kota's hero.
Yes. The thing is though it doesn't help the characters or the villains plan so is it a problem?
it was pretty needed for both characters than the plot, more for Kota, cuz his thing was that he didnt look up to heroes after his parents died, but when Deku was able to beat Muscular in front of him, it made him open his eyes to Heroes and gave him his own setup, while Deku, he now knows he cant do something like that again and has to evolve from a combat standpoint (this is led to Shoot Style), because the doctor said if he does something like that again, he'll lose that arm. The conflict impacted and developed both of them more than the plot, which folks should see that this is fine, instead of saying it was unneeded
@@kindasomeviews It was a cheap way to move the plot or try to force emotion based off of Kota's backstory which was told like an episode before Kota encountered Muscular. The same emotional elements could still occur without Muscular having to be Kota's parent's murderer. It just becomes more problematic how common this encounter trope happens in later arcs like Chisaki arc or Gentle arc where characters meet the exact person they're looking for to move the plot unnaturally.
What I hate the most about the Shinsou fight is that Ojiro warned Izuku about his quirk. The plot had Izuku act out of character (being strangely dumb) to stablish that thing about OFA. I found it dumb but necessary because even though I didn't read the manga, I knew it was gonna pay off somehow. And the weirdest thing is that this was easily avoidable, just have Ojiro not have a good clue about Shinsou power.
to be fair Shinso was talking about Izuku being lucky to be 'BORN' to have a quirk so strong and not villainous unlike shinso
and Deku, as we know, is quirkless and kinda snapped for a bit
That’s where you are confused it wasn’t dumb it was emotion over logic just because he went with his emotions doesn’t mean he was being dumb
@@Ksoo223 But no one was in danger, and when that's not the case, Izuku tends to keep his cool and strategic thinking.
Kalani Breno Klinke not like that he hasn’t ever been in that situation before so it was new to him to fight a person and also hold back his emotions
@@Ksoo223 his first fight with Katsuki was him holding back to focus on the task ahead. He didn't get too emotionally involved so he could think straight and be 5 steps ahead of Katsuki, and it worked.
I like Oceaniz MHA Videos
Euphemia breaking the Geass through the power of love was the actual contrivance. People give the "Euphemia Moment" too much crap.
I mean, one of those matters a lot more to the story than the other. I don't really care, but it really shouldn't be hard to see why people would treat those moments differently.
@@FamAD123
For the record, i still don't like how they handled that moment.
But it was foreshadowed and made sense in context, since Lelouche's conviction wavered cuz he was about to sign up for a humiliating compromise.
The execution still bothers me.
@@_M_4 Well, I happen to agree with you and this is my first time actually hearing that people had a problem with it. Granted its been years since I've watched it, but I recall that there was an entire mini-arc centering around a Geass-user losing control, and I remember that creating a lingering sense of anxiety over when Lelouch might lose control over his Geass. And I think this is actually one of those misuses of the word "contrivance" because it is seemingly based on *just* being "random" and not whether it "fits with the narrative of the story." His Geass had to go off randomly at some point, then it was just as likely to happen at that moment as any other. For me, it was the specificity of the order "Kill all the Japanese" that seemed contrived, not necessarily the timing of when his Geass lost control. He could have said "Kill everyone" or even "Kill Suzaku" specifically and it still would have proved the exact same point, but not have had the same impact on the plot. But even though I think the dialogue overall seemed inorganic (and that just might be a dubbing issue) I think that the overall problem can be resolved by speculating that it was a scenario that Lelouch had previously run through in his head. I'm not saying that he subconsciously wanted it to happen or anything, he just ran through the logistics of what would happen like he would any chess move before deciding that literally anything else would be better. That's why "kill the Japanese" came to his head as one of the more ridiculous examples of how he could use his Geass and also why he seemed to work it to his advantage so easily. It wasn't just a random thought, but a possibility that he had previously mused and discarded.
contrivance in meme form
Kronk: By all accounts, it doesn't make any sense.
Great video!
Kota' and the muscular fight was the first thing I thought of when you said the word, contrived
I'd actually have a problem with contrivances if day to day life wasn't already so contrived. Like what are the chances of anything happening?
It seems that, based on how you discussed each example, the degree to which a contrivance is justified and/or utilised by the narrative is equally as important as necessity when judging whether the contrivance was good for the story.
those are the.. same thing
The example he provides immediately discredits his understand of the very definition he gave. Wack
For your 2nd example, I believed it was his emotional state that kind of activated his quirk. Up until the future arcs
I think you forgot about one as bad as the Muscular contrivance. How Mirio and Deku just happen to find Eri on their first patrol, just when she was trying to escape from Overhaul. Again, not the most elegant way to start the Overhaul arc lmao
I love it, how you structure your video essays by first defining, then progressing to parallel examples of good and bad, then progressing to analyzing the main objective with those rules, and reach a conclusion through this process. I've had actually LC training, and this is literally the process you develop to write good analysis. I love, love LOVE your videos. I was actually going to jump on the deku Vs Shinsou fight argument, and you absolutely anticipated everything I was going to say... And I have a counter argument for why koda's part wasn't contrived either. Him being on THAT rock is a big contrivance, but Muscular being his parents' killer is probably WHY the league recruited him: not only because the act of killing two heroes would align him with them. Knowing how much AfO likes to fuck with families, he probably intensionally placed Muscular there once he found out where the students were. Did he mean it for Koda? No, clearly he's going to do it for the pro hero who he wants distracted, because he intends to attack the students, kidnap one of them because they took his protégé's fancy, but MOSTLY, he's there because _he wanted to steal Ragdoll's quirk_ . All of the early villain attacks are like this - there is the surface layer that is just Shigaraki playing with his toys and stretching his villain muscles, but all the deeper layers are orchestrated by someone clearly smarter, with deeper goals and motivation. Ragdoll's quirk even ends up being vital in the current manga arc. And yes, while this is, admittedly a theory because it is never revealed, it is wholly based on the facts presented. While Shigaraki was commanding the vanguard, AfO was clearly the man with a plan in the background - twice till that point he provided the general mooks, had the infrastructure to provide intel and in on the UA plans and staff, did background checks to coordinate said attack and even knew enough about the heroes they were dealing with that he could TARGET one of them for their quirk. The "team" of people around Shigaraki who became his core support was purposely chosen as shown by Kurogiri being the one who introduced them. They couldn't have been the only ones who were influenced by stain enough to take on the ideology and try join the league, but they ARE the ones who get to meet Shigaraki. And of course, between Dabi, Twice, Toga and especially Mr Compress, they end up being an incredibly effective team to secure what Shigaraki -and therefore AfO - wanted. Moreover, we Know for a fact that AfO loves to fuck over family. Starting with his own and ending with Nana's, his sociopath tendencies make it seem like he almost has fun toying with these family bonds. Why not throw Muscular at Mandalay, on top of giving her a property on fire, Forty kids to protect, an unresponsive team mate and an unknown quantity of enemies? The fact that Muscular came across Koda IS contrived, as well as the fact that he was the only villain there. But that he was THERE isn't. AfO is bastard enough to do it for shits and giggles.
Judging on some of the comments and just personal opinion, you can judge contrivances based on two other factors: *Narrative Satisfaction
* and *Narrative Logic*, or how satisfying does the contrivance end up being narratively and how logical is it from a story telling perspective.
If a scenario is very contrived, but ends up being rather satisfying to the viewer/reader, then it's achieved its end goal despite how unlikely or even necessary it is, you can probably find the likes of this in very luck based series like Kaiji, despite how much actual planning goes into turning the tables in their favor, there are more than a few time where the sheer satisfaction, or at times opposite, of what happen can override how likely it is or how narrative necessary it might be. There's a couple of people are arguing in favor of the whole Muscular thing and I think this plays a part in that.
There's also if a scenario, while not likely, makes sense from a purely storytelling perspective, similar to necessity, differentiated mostly by being driven 'this is something it makes sense to do' rather than 'this is something that needs to happen'. Back to the Muscular thing, it makes sense that the ghost from Kota's past be slain by the person who will one day become the greatest hero and restore his faith in heroes, even if it's not narratively necessary as you stated.
This man is gonna defend MHA to death
Deku remembering who Gentle criminal was when it was a month later and he happened to accidentally click on Gentle's video when he was looking for All Might with an item also happened to have run into Gentle Criminal at the right time and also happened to have caught Gentle's interest with tea as he was walking away was a bit of a contrivance in my opinion in terms of likeliness. A lot of unlikely things do happen to have but not necessarily contrived
They had a reason to be in the same spot because they were going to the same place. Gentle looks pretty unique when compared to random people so he may be recognizable even if just from one video.
He was also suspicious as fuck walking around in a giant trench coat
@@upg5147 Even then I still feel it was a bit of a contrivance to how he remembers gentle, I don't really care for the contrivances 99% of the time so it didnt really annoy me or anything of that situation, just felt like pointing out something I remembered
@@tehcookievanilla1323 All good bro
@Jesse Peters
A month later? Remembering something so cavalier a month later is really hard to believe in my opinion and how does that come to the conclusion that I don't like mha? wtf, maybe you should leave that last assumption off because you don't know anything about the shows I like or dislike lol
The absolute worst offender for misused critical terms is "trope" because it is almost invariably equated with the word "cliche." -- as if all one had to do in order to prove that a story is lazy and unoriginal is find corollaries between it and any other story.
In order to paint a picture, you have to smear oil on a canvas. This is contrived because containers of ink don't spontaneously burst open and produce art all by themselves. They have to be meticulously prepared and arranged in a specific pattern, usually by an artist, in order to create an image.
That said, life is less probable and more erratic than fiction could ever be.
What are the odds that you were born? Taking nothing else into account, only out of the some 100 million unique spermatozoa that could have fertilized the egg in your mothers womb, only one made the journey in order to make the specific genome you possess. If any other sperm had gotten there first, you could have lived a completely different life, assuming we even still count this alternative as "you." And that improbability is magnified across time through every fertilization. In order for you to have the specific genome you have, your parents each needed the specific genomes they had with the same 100-million-to-one variable in place.
The thing that keeps something like Deku and All Might meeting is not just that it's necessary for the plot to evolve but because of thing called archetypes.
Two specific people meeting each other may be vanishingly improbable, but out of the millions of sperm that could have fertilized that egg, the vast majority would have grown up into a healthy child who would need a teacher. All Might and Deku aren't just individuals called Toshinori and Midoriya, but roles called master and student (to say nothing of the other roles they might embody for each other, such as father and son.)
The whole point of either archetype is that each has a relationship to the other, so it's only natural that they'd come together in a manner analogous to real life.
You might not ever meet All Might or your idol, but you will form a relationship to some kind of authority figure that represents an ideal and template for emulation that society is formed around, both in the form of individuals and wider social attitudes.
Seen in this light, their meeting isn't simply a contrivance we overlook but a symbol for communicating to the audience.
Thought it said Coronavirus
Deku escaping for brainwashed is convenient because uraraka break him out the second time
Eri randomly running into Deku is a pretty contrived too, it was kinda needed for the plot but they could’ve made them meet in another way
You say another way but what way makes it not contrived then? I think meeting anyone ever is considered contrived by the standards people put.
Ryan Perez personally I think the Overhaul arc could have done more to show how the Shie Hasiki worked as a Yakusa with them having their roots dug throughout the city, there could have been another Smaller raid on another base as the police are closing down on the gang and that’s where Eri is met, maybe there’s nothing incriminating at that spot to arrest anyone so they have to let her go
@@WillWatches While the idea is fine, how it that less contrived. Why is she at this one hide out over another?
Ryan Perez I think it’s less contrived because Deku actually has a reason to run into her rather than just randomly in the street, if this hideout had nothing illegal it’d make more sense to have her there, and then Overhaul move her to the underground one now that the base is compromised
@@WillWatches But if they have roots deep in this town you would expect many hideouts for different things. Why does that exact one that Deku's group, which is the one chosen to do the raid on this small hideout the one that has her?
What I'm trying to get at is that you can make it contrived in almost any way. That's not what matters. Basically these specific moment of Eri running into Deku is the premise or start of the arc, meaning without this happening, the arc does not happen.
So a contrivance is like a really bad dues ex Machina
The fight with stain had one where midoriya had the fastest blood type
to be fair really I don't even know my blood type
That one is at least on the more plausible side. Even though it is super convenient
I thought the kids going to rescue Bakugo was contrived.... It felt like it was really forced especially when they knew all might was going to save Bakugo personally.
Yeah really makes it look like they have no faith in the number one and everyone’s idol huh
I'd say deku is the only one who feels contrived.
The rest have solid reasons.
The number of stars that had to align for Kota to encounter his parent’s murderer during the joint training arc. Not to mention, he had a similar power to Deku. Coincidence???
That's how I felt about Abbie finding Joel in last of us two
@@malonee
Granted, it took Abby years to find Joel and was only given the location of his whereabouts through a tip. What's convenient is that he is the first person she runs into after nearly getting mangled by a swarm of infected.
@@raymondyongho5757 I get that you were looking for him for years, but honestly with limited technology and he could be anywhere in the united states and given who he is, it all seemed super unlikely. It was just necessary for the story to begin but just SUPER unlikely imo
I'd argue that the second example is worse than the third. There's a certain elegance in using established characters that would be lost if Muscular wasn't the one to attack Kota. Horikoshi would either have to use one of the other villains or create a new character altogether. You also have to consider Musculars backstory. In this case, we get a little bit of backstory for both Kota and Muscular an a single flashback. If it was a different villain, we'd need a whole other scene to explain Musculars Eye, assuming Horikoshi didn't scrap the character altogether. And then the fight becomes Deku Vs Rando No Bakusutoori.
In Shinsou's case, it seems completely arbitrary. There really wasn't any reason Deku had to fight Shinsou in the first place. And it doesn't help that Ojiro tells Deku how to avoid being controlled before the fight. If anything, having One for all bail him out invalidates Dekus choice to answer Shinsou. You can argue that it's explained later, but that doesn't change the fact that Deku did something stupid and won by pulling a new power out of nowhere.
A power that took 2-3 seasons afterward to explain, right when it happens AGAIN THE EXACT SAME WAY
The first example is a good example. Because the chance of it happening to Deku is low, but it happening to *anyone* is much higher and the reason the story is interesting is because it happened to Deku's character. But the story could flow similar way, if it was someone else as well. And since they use it (as you brought up) as a plot point. It makes it a good story beat.
How is it any higher for anyone else. What are the chances of us both meeting Eminem? Just because it’s me the chances are lower??? Makes no sense.
@@RexZor76 tons of people meet him every single day. If he ever walks outside, he will meet people. Just wont be you, do you understand it now?
Think of it like "what are the chances of rolling a 1 ( at least once) on 1000 dice(rolls) ? Vs what are the chances of roll a 1 on 1 dice"
TheRedAzuki but heroes are always patrolling in MHA. People literally see Endeavor everyday because he patrols an area. It’s actually more likely to meet heroes/AM because of that fact.
@@RexZor76 yes, my point, AM been shown to be basically doing hero duties any and everywhere, so him encountered a middle-school kid being attacked by a villian. Very likely. This kid also being a fan of All-Might, also likely.
Him (Deku in this scenario) grabbing on to grabbing a hold of All-might and beg of him to teach him how to be a hero. (Personality quirk)
My problem with a lot of this discussions is that they they are the result of oversimplification and misundertanding that noone wants to admit to out of fear of lossing the discussion despite "being right".
Some people even start to change or outright makeup new definitions for terms just to be right with their opinion.
I think you're absolutely wrong about the third one. The reason why it was important that Kotas parents were brought up was to instill the hate Kota had for heroes and their work, and for deku to be able to being back Kotas hope not only in heroes but in society. It represents the state of that world now was well and what the heroes try to achieve during the chaos of the villains and the loss of hope of heroes and society
Glad you actually brought up the necessity of plot contrivances, and how they aren’t inherently bad. It seems many see contrivances to be an overwhelming bad thing, as opposed to a genuine narrative tool. It’s good to instill this kind of mindset. I’ve gotten into a myriad of online debates regarding this very topic .
Video starts at 5:15
I love the mha sectioned videos of your channel. You take basic criticisms that blind haters that don't do research on MHA have, and clarify them to the tee so that those people actually get it. While also proving a good point for people who like the anime for what it is already.
I think the beginning of MHA is only a contrivance from Deku's point of view. If we look at that scene from All Might's point of view it's normal for him to chase down villains and save people, and many people he saves are going to have an impact on the larger world around them. I think contrivance is well leveraged here because it's a completely normal action from one side that has a life changing impact on the other.
I still love the fight of Deku vs Muscular, though. Especially in the anime.
Biggest anime contrivance. Death note at the very beginning Light Yagami finds the death note. What are the chances that a sociopathic murderer will find the exact weapon he needs to kill people without a trace. Ryuk didn’t even pick out Light specifically since he was surprised as to how many names Light had written. Biggest Contrivance Ever!
I like this youtuber. I like him. His Name Oceanic. I like.
Welcome to the family! ❤️❤️ He's really good, you gotta watch all his videos 😃👍🏻
He’s really underrated
I don't know if it it counts as contrivance but I always had a problem with deku going 1.000.000 percent because it shouldn't be possible and at least in the anime it was never explained how you achieve 1.000.000 percent. And I understand that the main focus of many shounen and MHA in particular is to go beyond your limits but it has to be explained at least a bit to not feel forced imo.
But in code geass we were already given hint about how LELOUCH might not be able to control geass in future with mao appearance . And there was scene in beginning of that episode with a noble man u see LELOUCH losing control
I think Deku meeting All Might works because he just happens to be the kid All Might meets and gives his power to. That's why we're following Deku. It could've been anyone. It just happens to be Deku.
I think a mediocre contrivance is the set up for the second movie. Why are the kids alone on Nabu instead of at school? So the movie can happen. Anime movies in general tend to be more contrived but we accept it so our anime can continue unhindered.
Im personally on the fence on that Muscular one.
It is definitely a contrivance, yes. But unnecessary? I personally dont think so.
Based on the members of the Vanguard Action Squad, I think Muscular, the Noumu, and probably Dabi would have given Izuku as much trouble as he had where he was nearly at deaths door.
It wasn't only the moment that Deku overpowered Muscular and saved Kota, but the moment where when Deku was about to give up hope, Kota shot water at the person who killed his parents. Despite his fear, he stayed and that action saved Dekus life.
He was a hero to Deku. And as someone who hated heroes like he did, this resonated...imo at least.
Seeing the person who took away the life of a child by killing his parents unremorsefully was just extra icing on the cake lol
Could it have been any other person? Possibly. You could've switched Muscular with someone like Rappa or something lol. But would it have as much impact? Who knows.
Fate. Comeuppance for Muscular. Unnecessary Contrivance. Take your pick lol
Eh disagree, the muscular fight was one of the best in the entire series and the emotional investment was part of the reason why. Was it contrived? Yes. Was it effective? In my opinion, also yes.
See nux Taku and look up deku with it
@@srf0076 NUx takus video on Deku is shit
@@srf0076 based nux watched
The muscular fight is the most garbage fight in the entire series. Deku using his shattered arm to both lift this grown ass muscular man and punch him into the side of the mountain after previously being crushed into the ground is the most shonen plot armor shit I've ever seen. No bueno
I think the whole point was that muscular being the exact villain that just so happened to kill Koda’s parents and just so happened to go to Koda’s arbitrary favorite rock at a time when Koda happened to be at said rock was unnecessary and unnatural. His point was that if you’re gonna have crazy coincidences like that in a story, at least have it be for some purpose but musculars connection to Koda was unnecessary because Koda’s reaction to muscular would have been the exact same had it been a villain that didn’t kill his parents. Since Koda was never hellbent on revenge and wasn’t even the one fighting, his reaction to muscular was akin to how any kid would react to any random villain attacking them.
Basically, it’s not that the fight was terrible, it’s that the unnecessary coincidences with Koda and Muscular kind of made the fight a bit unnatural for no reason at least to me.
I personally think the movies have more contrivances in them. Which, I mean they're anime movies, that's kinda the MO. My only issue is that they exist in this pseudo-canon. (OFA can be transferred instantly?)
I'd say that the second contrivance is just as bad if not worse then the third one. 1. It required an explanation that took 2-3 seasons to get to, 2. it makes OFA look like assholes for influencing Deku in low stakes competitions where Deku clearly fucked up and shouldve lost fair and square and 3. You couldve had something like this happen during the stain fight or when Deku first learned full cowling. Yes it has a purpose and necessity to the plot, but that necessity was inelegant and plain stupid. Especially since it happens TWICE in almost the exact same way. There is a point where the necessity of certain plot points outweigh the likelihood of them but this is a situation where there were a dozen other ways of justifying its existence in the story.
I'd argue the Vestiges showing up when they did is foreshadowing when it happened. The later context is the foreshadowing paying off. It was meant to be a hint and it functioned exactly as it did. At that point in the story we know so little about OFA in total with All-Might not knowing but so much about it himself. As for the Kota thing it's not really an egregious thing because I don't think Horikoshi had some big purpose for what is ultimately one of Deku's first real tests as a hero.
Let’s gooo
I feel like this idea of contriviality(?) misses an important aspect: thematic continuity. It feels like a story beat can be both unlikely and unnecessary but further the thematic narratives of a story so well it wouldn’t be contrived. Good example would be Vader being Luke’s father. Likely? Not very. Necessary? Not really. But it adds such a rich thematic layer of the son atoning for the sins of the father, I wouldn’t call it contrived.
Good video, next time put a time stamp for the non spoiler wanting people so they wont have to guess where to skip too and miss anything important in the video
Nice video.
The code geas one its not completely out of nowhere. Mao couldn't turn of his mind reading eventually but its still very convenient
Yeah but wasn't Zero's Geass not to the point where it's always active at that point?
An example of a real contrivance that makes the story worse is Rey's power and skill in the Force in the Sequel Trilogy.
MHA is a good anime
It’s got amazing animation and soundtracks
But too bad it’s fan base is annoyingly toxic and trash af
Do you mean every anime's community?
But there was the polemic of the name of the doctor. And it was entirely the author's fault.
Arthur Ribeiro yes because giving a bad person a name that refers to an evil action they commit is *SO* out of line....
Ah right, because the minority get vocal and attention the entire fanbase is “toxic and trash af”
T Mitch
Damn.....
"Any plot it contrived" as he shows Dragon Ball, where Bulma and Goku meet through non-contrived means
It’s funny because I actually did forget that Muscular was the one that killed Water Hose
One thing that needs noting is that a character stumbling into a story isn't contrivance, because the story follows that character because it stumbled into it, not the other way around.
Contrivance can be good if done well.
Darth Vader being Luke's father is a tiny bit contrived ,but its still a legendary twist because it makes sense and doesn't rely on pure shock value
If you're going to nibble on anyone's feet, it should be Redestro's.
Let's see here, villain man challenges the exact person who is the perfect actualization of his ideals? Yeah, yeah, that's a bit unlikely, I guess.
@@ShuraEssays Not really. Re-Destro didn't think of Shigaraki as the perfect actualization of his ideals until he survived everything he threw at him and then went through his own "awakening", forcing Re-Destro to reevaluate his opinion on him as well as surrender if he wanted the MLA to survive.
And thus you guys have figured out Deku's subtle Quirk: Contrivance
If there was one contrivance I had to make, it would have to be with Bakugou never learning suffering the consequences when it comes to his animosity for Midoriya. If he had continued like this, he would've been expelled faster than you can say 'DEKU!!!!'.
It could have even been easier to write Muscular another Stain fanatic who says Kota’s genes failed when he killed his parents.
Maybe Horikoshi didn't want to bog down the League with too many actual Stain fanatics and not enough just random outcasts who wanted a place to belong.
I mean Deku *KEEPS* running into very important people
All Might, Eri and Overhaul, Gentle,( Muscular-kinda) the dudes a plot magnet
It's a Small World After All
I mean, he *is* the protagonist, but it would probably also be good if it happened a little more naturally.
So glad this video is the exactly opposite of the lazy media criticism I thought it was going to be when I clicked on it
Maybe it's just me, but with #2 I just understood it to be similar to when Aang goes into the Avatar State without knowing how to control it.
7:50 90% of haters
Really good video and editing. Nicely explained topic!
You ask about the purpose of Muscular meeting Kota? It's simple, it happened to show us how Deku saves someone in the same way as All Might saved him. Saved in the meaning of saving his life from the villain and also saving him from the dark thoughts that Heroes are trash. Deku saved Kota from eventually becoming a villain in the future and also saved him from the literal death. By making Muscular his enemy, he also gives Kota freedom from "revenge" that is the highway to hell.
That is the sole reason why this happened.
LET'S GO OCEAN MAN UPLOADED POG
*opens twt and sees your tweets*
*open yt to find your video*
this is fun
It think the all for one thing isn't as bad in hind sight as set up and because that fight wasn't that important.
It's still not good though.
Lol the description. I hope you touch on the bending of Fire Force or Avatar as a power system in a future video. A satisfying video indeed
I like How everyone is ignorant « O MY SEVEN QUIRKS»
Great video Oceaniz, thanks bud!
The take i had on the second instance both when it occurred and as we got more info. Is that the reason the vestiges we able to connect with Deku and break his fingers there was DUE to Shinso's brainwashing. In part it is likely also due to Izuku being the 9th in line and the quirk growing to the point where it is able to do this. (Im referencing seeing the otber vestiges while Toshi and as far as we know Nana couldn't)
But I also figured the brainwashing was apart of this as Shinso locked Izuku in his own mind. Izuku in those moments had no control over his body but was still conscious, still able to think. That doing that to his mind also put him basically, closer to the vestiges of the past users. That he, in those moments would have been mentally closer to the vestiges as his mind wasn't occupied with controlling his body and interacting with the environment.
That that allowed the vestiges to take the first step in reaching out to Deku.
And if im remembering correctly we see this again in the joint training arc. That after Shinso gets control of Izuku to make him stop thats when Izu talks to the 5th user.
Im running on memory for that part though so I may be wrong.
Anyway I have just always interpreted that the reason the vestiges where able to take control and do something in that instance was due to the Brainwashing
I feel like another big contrivance in the series is Deku getting multiple quirks. All might had no knowledge of this, and I think it's pretty All Mights teacher didn't know either. There was no foreshadowing to this at all, the author simply did it because they wrote themselves into a corner with what they could do with base one for all.
not really imo. It was quite predictable, so much so that I wasn't even really surprised much at all when I read about him getting Black Whip. There was very little forshadowing, but there is setup to this plot twist that is honestly very simple. We knew from the moment we learned about the history of OfA back in season 2 that the first holder had the power to transfer quirks within them. That was their power, so it made sense that the quirk would grab all those other quirks along the way. While yes the fact that only now is when those quirks are usable is a little convenient, it does make sense. Plus, we know many of those quirks will be pretty weak in terms of power, most of the users were just nobodies entrusted by a friend.
Bro, did you completely miss out on the Quirk Singularity foreshadowing, how quirks are getting stronger and stronger each generation, to the point where society would collapse? Deku being the 9th user of OFA is the embodiment of this very point.
That's funny, I finished watching code geass, and I remember skipping the spoilers for code geass in the video and now before even watching the video I can guess the contrivance instantly because it was a moment I heavily disliked in the series
Yeah, I always hated the Muscular contrivance.
“That it begins feeling artificial or forced.” No, you can quantify how forced something is in a story. The reason Gigantomachia effing disappearing off the cop’s radar after his cameo post-Overhaul is so dumb is because of how conspicuous a being he is.
Do you read the manga?
Yeah KeeN Did I miss something? I’m happy to admit if I did, but don’t act condescending if you’re not going to back it up.
Can you please make a video on contrivances in fairy tail?
The way mha is written.....hurts the story, world building and the side characters
But people are failing to criticize the story in a good way
which part do u think is flawed?
@@blank2736
1. The side characters don't have story arcs
characters like uraraka, momo and more
2. the world needs to open up
like what other functions quirks serve beside fighting villains
because it seems like the only things quirks do is fighting
@@secreswallowtail6969 u do realise its an ongoing anime right? Its better not to rush these things otherwise it will become a problem
@@blank2736 giving side characters story arcs is not rushing things.......this can lead to great character development
but what we getting from mha is characters having great moments that lead to nothing like uraraka vs bakugo
(this shit is still happening in the manga.......side characters will have a good moment or fight then stay quiet for 100 chapters)
@@secreswallowtail6969 give it some time the mha manga is going to be a long one
Yikes!