"God Is The Standard For Goodness!" Oh, Really? | Talk Heathen: Throwback
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Call the show on Sundays 1:00pm-2:00pm CDT: 1-512-991-9242
Don't like commercials? Become a patron & get ad-free episodes & more: / talkheathentome
► Find all of our links here: linktr.ee/athe...
The podcast may be found at:
tiny.cc/podcastph
Talk Heathen merch can be found at: tiny.cc/merchaca
Note: We request pronouns as part of the call screening process on our shows, and we display the pronouns our callers provide. If you see a caller with no pronouns indicated, this is because they chose not to provide us with any, and we respect that decision.
-------
WHAT IS TALK HEATHEN?
Talk Heathen is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared toward long-form and on-going dialogue with theists & atheists about religion, theism, & secularism. Talk Heathen is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
Talk Heathen is filmed in front of a live studio audience every week at the Freethought Library of the Atheist Community of Austin.
The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop & support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing & friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of government-religion separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists & to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.
We define atheism as the lack of belief in gods. This definition also encompasses what most people call agnosticism.
NOTES
The views and opinions expressed by hosts, guests, or callers are their own and not necessarily representative of the Atheist Community of Austin.
/ talkheathen is the official channel of Talk Heathen. "Talk Heathen" is a trademark of the ACA.
Copyright © 2024 Atheist Community of Austin. All rights reserved.
It's weird how he kept bringing up the Nazis as an example of unquestionable evil like they weren't openly using his own religion as the moral justification for their actions. Their belt buckles didn't say "Atheism With Us."
How about the Great Leap
forward in China?
@@bobgreenfield9158 Done *by* atheists, but not done *because* of atheism.
They didn't say anything any the justification being because of their disbelief in a God or Gods, especially considering that China had atheistic Buddhists for centuries/millennia before the CPP came into power.
@@bobgreenfield9158 I'm not sure why my previous reply isn't showing up but A) He didn't mention it, B) the CCP didn't cite atheism as the specific reason for their actions, and C) atheist Buddhists were in China for many centuries before (nominal) Communists got into power, and they didn't seem to be interested in doing any of those things.
You literally made a fallacious whataboutism and you probably don’t even realize it.
@@nsablue8 It's not a whataboutism if it's addressing the things he's literally saying. *I'm* not the one who was insisting that atheism would lead to Nazi ideology, *he* was. I just pointed out that the Nazis said that they were doing it specifically because of their *Christian* ideology.
Why is human wellbeing the standard instead of wellbeing in general? Why don’t people believe killing animals without a just purpose is bad? Our society does horrible things to animals, and it’s because people don’t want to apply our morals to them despite us being animals, and animals having the capacity to suffer
I'd refine that to sufficiently intelligent and conscious life because "animals" includes flies and coral.
Would you kill and eat a chicken, or see your kids starve?
God is not the standard for goodness, but I’m open to the idea that God is the standard for evil.
Same man, same.
Fun thought exercise: Read the Bible , but ignore every *proclaimed* moral evaluation (as in: just describing someone as being good or evil) and then evaluate each major player based on their actions.
We get to a revolutionary freedom fighter trying to free people from a tyrannical oppressor :D
Yup I agree
To be fair, you cant prove God isnt the standard for morality anymore than you can prove God doesn't exist. Ofcourse when making a claim you adopt the burden of proof. It should be I do not believe God is the standard for goodness.
@@dirtypickle77 I mean, you can't prove God isn't the standard for morality anymore that you can prove God is the standard for morality :D
The gnostic christians actually believed the creator god "The Demiurge" is evil
'God is the standard of good, so when God does evil, it's good.' Do Christians not see that this line of reasoning removes any concept of morality?
It is so ridiculous, I always think these Christians never even actually hear what they claim, they just defend it as a habit, I think if they heard anyone else of a different faith or no faith saying these ridiculous things they would think they were a monster, they just can't hear it in themselves
Your asking Christians to think to much, which doesn't serve their delusions well.
Please forgive the irony when I say "preach".
They'll answer with "mysterious ways" or "who do you think you are to Judge god?"
@@awdfan2259That’s a deflection tactic to avoid confronting the truth of their god being evil.
"They were all evil". Yes those evil infants evily breastfeeding. Oh the toddlers, look at their evil toddling. Those children, all tuckered out with their evil deeds all day getting tucked into bed, evily...
Even for adults, are actual cruel acts creating evil victims? It's all just very silly
There's a question for theists. If all humans were irredeemably evil, then the evil they were doing was only being visited upon other irredeemably evil people. If being irredeemably evil is worthy of torturous death at God's hand, and the only people being harmed were irredeemably evil, then why would God care to begin with? Weren't they already receiving the punishment he chose to visit on them for their actions?
"It's cool to wipe out all life on earth save one small group, but you can't kill them fetuses" is all that amounted to.
This whole "from what standard" crap...basically if we don't get it from an invisible man in the sky with magic powers then we have no real standard....c'mon man
7:37 10:48 Wow, just wow. It is amazing to me how someone can be so blinded by their own sacred cows as to not see their own bias, double speak and, and backward thinking.
Who made Satan? Why is the creation of the ultimate evil okay when a god did it? Everything evil ever was created by your creator then it is an evil creator.
Apparently he was a angel in heaven 🤷🏻♂️
If an entity created the "ultimate" evil being, knowing full well what that being would do, would that not make the original entity the ultimate evil? They put this evil on the board and set it loose without any doubt how it would act.
The few Christians who read their bible rarely internalize Isaiah 45:7. God is not "the good guy" if it's behind everything good And bad. Edit: Those who do internalize that bit are impisoned by fear and no more free than other abuse victims who defend their abusers. The caller's defense of the flood was really something.
😅❤ Nazzi Getmany used two writtings on their belts: 1) Gott mit uns ('God [is] with us') and 2) Meine Ehre heisst Treue (My Honour is called Loyality). Catholic Pope (largest christians denomination by far) BLESSED their weapons. Advice for Caller -Time to start using other examples to present "evil" 😂
The bible game (2 players or more): Open the old testament in a random page, read a random part. Do what that part says. Last person to go to prison wins.
Simple, indoctrinated minds are incapable of holding concepts throughout an argument.
Host: "I don't believe in souls."
Caller: "But fetuses have souls, so...."
“What is, in fact, an evil giraffe? With humans we understand the idea of good and bad, but with animals what in fact is an evil giraffe? “I will eat all the leaves on this tree. I will eat more leaves than I should. and then other giraffes may die. I am an evil herbivore.”” -Eddie Izzard on genesis flood.
When you can't define right from wrong without your invisble friend...you are a danger to society.
no thought behind caller's utterings.
My favorite immoral story is when Satan made a bet with god that he can make Job curse god's name. Satan was allowed to destroy everything Job had including his family. All except Job himself. All this just to stroke god's ego. Thats pretty wicked.
The claim is arbitrary, without a shred of substance. You may as well say "What I believe is good, is objectively good, because I say so." It would amount to the same thing in practice. Nothing.
In the garden of Eden stood a tree, eating the fruit of this tree would bestow upon those that consumed it the knowledge of good and evil. If god created this particular tree to produce such a fruit then god had to have created evil! So how can god be all goodness and love? The whole thing makes no sense. It absurd.
I call god evil based on the standard that he not only does not object to slavery, genocide, misogyny, or abuse, but that he actively condones and in many cases commands this.
The hosts could’ve shut down this Germany thing so much faster: “They THOUGHT that doing what they did was good for human well-being, but they were wrong about that. We know they were wrong about that because human well-being can be objectively established.”
They were also wrong about eugenics resulting in superior humans; for as we.now.know, the ethnically diverse someone is, the stronger their immune system tends to be, and the less genetic disease tends to occur. On the other hand; we have discovered the more you restrict genetics to a smaller and smaller group, the weaker the immune system tends to be, and generic diseases, birth defects, etc, all increase.
Countries like America make.thw same mistake when it comes to wealth distribution among the classes; as the fewer people who own a greater and greater percentage of the wealth, the greater the negative impacts on society are, from crime,.drug use, homelessness, lack of affordable healthcare, access to a quality education, etc, becomes a larger and larger problem.
In the christian mythology (bible) god killed several million humans (obviously not including animals), while the devil barely killed about 10 people, how can people who want that god to be real not be considered terrorists? Or at the very least be considered people who weild antihuman ideology
Nazis were religious 😂 dude is delusional
18:51 - Human well being dude!!!!! Did the Germans violate others human well being!!! YES!!! How slow is this guy?
There is no objective good or evil dude
Is it just me or do these throwbacks just give me nostalgia every time I click and watch?
If no bible existed for any religion that existed what would things be like all over the world?
I find it very interesting that an all knowing GOD would need to create any sort of HELL to place anyone into when he has the power to create perfect beings and not have any regrets.
Those moles and meerkats were out all day every day causing misery and fear they had to go man
Sain...more like INsain(e)
If Sain's god had ordered the Holocaust, it would've been morally right.
Also, the Holocaust might have been approved by that god so, unless Sain *knows* otherwise, how can Sain condemn it?
Why do theists dismiss constructivism without justification? If I hold that all morality is constructed from principles and values, it answers the question of where morality is derived from. I don’t think Divine Command Theory adequately explains why people feel compelled to be moral without internalizing the commands as consistent with their values.
The two standard christisn concepts of deflection is NSDAP and abortion.
But NSDAP was christians and the christian god gives rules for abortion.
So what it is REALLY the christian argument?
Scientists have calculated that if all water on Earth were liquified (polar ice caps melted, all mountain snow and ice melted, Greenland Ice melted, all atmospheric clouds and water vapor condensed, etc.), the global sea level would rise by about 250 feet. Not exactly a global flood. Sure, all coastal cities would be destroyed. But at 300’ elevation, good old Fresno would almost become oceanfront property!
This guy ducked the question and never came up with an answer that showed his GOD wasn't evil.
When GOD had regrets and wanted to kill animals plants and MAN that he claimed was VERY GOOD.
I think this was a good call, but I do wish the hosts had been a little stricter in the beginning when the caller gave his justification for God being his objective standard for judging good from evil. Somewhere around 1:40 I think:
"And you are doing that, basing your objective on... What?"
"Oh, I guess the objective would be on God being good"
"Okay, how do you know that God is good?"
"All I would point to is that without God, uh, being the absolute standard of goodness there just is no other standard of goodness that we can point to."
Feel like that one slipped under the radar.
Numbers 15:32-36
A man is "caught" picking up sticks on the Sabbath and God tells the rest of the town to some him to death.
Not only is a man killed for something so petty as picking up sticks, but God didn't even do it himself. He made the townsfolk murder their friend and neighbor. That's an atrocious act done to everyone involved.
I have never once been given a story from that Bible, in favor of God's benevolence, that doesn't show God's depravity with the least bit of critical thinking.
I really do not comprehend how anyone thinks God is good. The only way to arrive at that conclusion is by sacrificing logic, reason, and consistency.
If anyone has a Bible verse that actually shows how God is good, please share it with me.
“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[d] among your people when he makes your womb misc4rry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb misc4rries.”
Anyone wanna fill me in on why most people want to rely on "objective" morality? That's an oxymoron, morality is determined by whomever is being questioned. Therefore there cannot be any objective.
Ahe is wrong; you can be found guilty; if something was an accadent, which is why we have the crime of neglagent homicide. In such cases; the guilty person may not have realized something qould occur, howevwr a reasonable person would realize the thing that happened was a possability. An example is a landloard; who knew the wood a balcany was dryrote, and should have realized there was a possability if the renter's had a party and guests went onto the balcany, the balcany might collapse. There was just auch a case in Berkely California a number of years ago; and sadly some of the folks on the balcany died, and the landlord was found guilty of neglagent homicide.
The problem with religious, spiritual, etc, ethics and morals is; unlike true wthics and morals, they are stagnant, unchanging, and thus unable to progress with society. This is due to the fact; objective morality is based on logic and reason; on what is best for the greatest number of humans. Aecular humanism works this way; and includes the well being of nature, due to humanity meeding a healthy environment in which to live.
20:29 im gunna be honest youre confusing me here too. I was qith you until you said "yes" to objective morality existing with the nazis which was a...subjective moral code.
Morality is inherently subjective. For morality to exist, there must be beings capable of sapient and introspective thought. They have to be able to think about their actions and ask why they did them and conclude that their actions were not necessary for their survival.
It's why cats are so close to being evil. They'll just torture and kill small animals for no reason. Don't let domesticated cats outside. They are terrible for the environment.
I think that you allowed the caller to change the subject. It was about the genocide of malakites and then started talking about abortion, leaving the other topic completely unresponded.
This conversation is a disaster. The essential question, which does not get addressed, is what is goodness. Classically theists have said that goodness is a transcendental, i.e. property or characteristic or aspect of being itself. It is being from the perspective of its desirability because of the ability of one being to perfect another, and as an object of the act of the will (in contradistinction to being as truth when it is the object of the intellect). And since classically theists have also argued that God is the subsistent act of existence itself, meaning he just is existence, not that he simply has more of it, then God is also the subsistent act of goodness itself, which is to say that God just is goodness. So for a theist the statement “God is not good” is logically equivalent to “good is not good“, which is incoherent. No amount of biblical exegesis for or against the depiction of the deity in the Bible changes this because it’s ultimately not a question of what God does, but of what God is.
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. 🤔
That phrase is wrong and bad and dumb and needs to be updated or forgotten. You do not have a right to swing a fist toward a face. If you feel you must wildly swings fists it is incumbent on you to limit the zone to where no one is, face the other way. If you swing your fist at me and stop short, we're still going to have a problem.
Funny listening to baby killers compare human life to acorn trees
If you know what will happen, and have power to do anything, then anything that happens, happens because you let it happen.
These are the types of people that NEED to keep believing their bullshit. I am fully conviced that if people like this were suddenly atheist and without the direction of their magical best friend, they would undoubtedly be horrible, horrible people.
Those bunnies must have been all
Rabbit of Caerbannog disciples
Religion really poisoned this guys mind. Sounds like a sociopath.
This guy must have a whole warehouse of hoops to jump through to justify his crap
"was everything evil"?
god mistook our universe for the mirror one.
And calling Babies evil Sinners
My guess is the most likely future critique of modern day America (and the world) will be the treatment and use of animals for food.
I dunno, we've been doing it for hundreds of thousands of years.
@@alkristopher That's true, but we're finally getting to the point of lab grown meat. In 30 years, it might completely take over and then after a generation, people will think it was insane to raise animals for food.
@@jmorris023I really hope the future isn't filled with lunatic vegans. We already have those now making that exact critique. Once lab grown meat and other alternatives reach maturity and price parity (or less preferably) then that changes the equation.
3:00 i do think what she's saying here is very important. Because it's the basis of why we do what we do.
So if god knows everyone he created and what their entire life will turn out as why did he screw up and intentionally create people so that he could kill them, Then send them to a special place he created for eternal torture. It does not get more demented or evil, or did the infallible god make a boo boo?
Why just human wellbeing?
Well you shouldn't have started that potential life if you then blame it for sucking on your life... You did it... And it doesn't really matter to that baby in the womb if you hate it or not.
8:30 "I may not be able to financially support a life against my wishes'
For real?
As a man, I may not be able to financially support a life against my wishes, but guess what? - no one asks a man, we men have ZERO rights to refuse child support!
A woman has an opt-out option, so if she doesn't feel like it, she can just do an abortion and absolve herself of any obligations, but men have no right for financial abortion!
As such, until men get a right for financial abortion, men should not support women's fight for abortion rights, because women never support men back.
You want my support? Then first support MY rights!
It's obviously different when someone is at the stage of supporting a life with their actual body. Providing nutrients from their own person.
Once a baby is born, the person who gave birth is financially responsible for that baby's care and well being, unless they put the baby up for adoption.
You trying to compare child support to building a fetus' body with your own nutrients is silly and weak.
By that argument, why should women be willing to support your rights if you aren't willing to support theirs?
@@lnsflare1 when did women support my rights please?
Wow, what an idiotic thing to say
@@namethis658 When did you support women's rights, since you think that supporting rights should be transactional?
Repent. Believe in Jesus Christ for salvation and become a new person in this life. Luke 13:3 KJV I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Romans 10:9 KJV That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Tell me who wrote the book of Matthew and I'll denounce atheism. I'll wait. Coward
How do you feel about Jesus drowning all the babies during the flood?
God hates spam
Mark is only here to preach. He won't interact. Pathetic
Nice drive-by preaching. We all know you won't reply with any knowledge. Coward.
No not at all you heathen YOU AND I WE ARE THE STANDARD FOR GOODNESS AND EVERYTHING ELSE!🙏🙏🙏
I do not miss Vi’s disgusting mouth noise.