Hi Stuart. My penny's worth on safe riding. Firstly I want to be understood clearly. I'm not dismissing the benefits of all PPE in motorcycle riding. I spent nearly 40 yrs as a paramedic in NZ, I've seen what you have seen. I started riding motorcycles as a teenager. In our country helmets were not compulsory. I was always aware of how vulnerable I was. Later helmets were made compulsory. My attitude changed, I felt protected. Armor is great if you have an oops. But be aware, folk seem to have an unrealistic attitude towards this gear. It's not hard to spend $1000. NZ on a helmet. That helmet will do less to protect you than riding safely. There is a general feeling by motorcycle riders that car drivers are responsible for most of our crashes. Low speed.. maybe.. like intersection crashes . But , and I'm expecting flack here... the majority of serious crashes involving death are from excessive speed of motorcyclist. Sorry folk. But the truth is that. I was there time after time.
True, for under 30km/h it should help you get away with brushing. 30-50km/h hopefully just sprains, minor abrasions and non threatening concussion... but after that is you, your God, and the luck of how you slide, fall, hit things with in the limits of such PPE. They are there to help, not to bulletproof you, how you ride and how you avoid events matter. Remember, abstinence is the best contraceptive, an condom helps but is not 100% guarantee, you need to have extra care/protection and use it as intended.
Couldn’t agree more, Peter. If all motorcyclists (and car drivers) started out with the understanding that whatever happens, it’s their fault, their day might be a heck of a lot safer. If the car driver pulls out in front of me, it’s my fault that I wasn’t scanning ahead and anticipating that all drivers won’t see me and will pull out. If I spill on a corner, it’s because I wasn’t handling the machine well enough; too fast, wrong position, unaware of the limit point, etc. Similarly with filtering, overtaking, right-turn violations, etc. Man, I envy your riding in NZ. I visit family once every couple of years and would love to have my Bonnie with me to explore your fabulous country. As I always tell those who think they might like to visit … NZ comes with a big health warning; you won’t want to come home! (and when you do, make sure it’s not in a box. It’s a fun country, but should be treated with respect).
Belstaff for me in the late 70’s. Still got a photo of me & my pal in them with our 4four & Rd when 400’s were considered a big big. We’re still biking together too
After your last Barbour video, I bought one at £164 on line. I am extremely impressed with it. When I was a Police motorcyclist back in the 70s we had Belstaff. Unfortunately they weren’t that good in the wet. We used to put a broadsheet newspaper underneath for extra protection. Thanks for the videos. Paul
Motorcycle armor for riding safety is similar to carrying a 10mm pistol in the woods of Montana. Both may help you survive but an suv or a grizzly bear are going to give you a bad day.....
A very good comparison, thank you. I`m in the market for a waxed cotton jacket. Having owned a Belstaff as my first proper bike jacket back in the early 80`s when here in Australia, basically any serious motorcyclist owned one, now I find them hideously overpriced and difficult to find. The Barbour, is much more reasonably priced and as I`ve just learnt, much the same jacket, albeit with a stronger heritage. I have emailed both companies to find out if they send to Australia as I`m struggling to find an Aussie outlet.
As it turns out, it`s impossible to buy a Barbour in Oz. there are a few stockist here, but they are only interested in the fashion stuff. None wanted to special order the International jacket. So Belstaff it is. I bit the bullet and bought a Trialmaster. @@johngibson3837
Very thought provoking Stuart. The most important message in your videos on PPE is that riding sensibly will reduce your risk of an accident and injury way way more than anything else. For me, I do kit up with full PPE every time I ride because, as some others have commented on, it will help in the event of a slide. Or just preventing a bruise falling off the damn thing when stationary! But that's all I expect from it.
I love my International. I had one as a young enduro rider in my 20’s and it lasted for years, went out and bought a new one last year. Perfect on my Triumphs and always gets high style comments.
The description "Armour" suggests it can withstand piercing by an object or projectile. Motorcycle clothing can not resist piercing so it is not armour. I'm surprised the advertising standards authority have not stopped this!
@@Howard1776 I think the operative term in you comment was "I have never thought". Armour is designed to be impervious to penetration. When the enemy defeats it, it is upgraded to try and defeat the weapon. Tanks went through constant redesign throughout WW2 in order to counter more powerful weapons. So did medieval armour. Bike clothing is not in anyway designed to resist penetration in fact it has slots and holes in it to allow ventilation so your comment is pointless.
Many thanks for this review. I’m planning to buy a waxed cotton jacket as a retirement present to myself and think I will buy a barber one. There’s also a shop in my town that sells the brand
Morning Stewart. Honestly I didn't see anything wrong in your previous vid about motorcycling armour cloathing. I borrowed a mates armoured jacket once and I found the armour irritating after about 30 miles riding. He is slightly larger than me by the way so perhaps that's why I found wearing his armoured leather jacket annoying? Enjoyed your second installment on these jackets too. So until your next vid, safe riding sir 👍.
Hello sir. Great videos. I recently went from a leather jacket to a barbour international after watching your videos. It was a great move. Such a great classic jacket, more comfortable and breaths really well. I love it. Thanks for your great video.
Morning Uncle Stu, As a retired Traffic Officer/Motorcyclist/Family Liaison Officer I, as you, saw many fatal motorcycle accidents and dealt with the aftermath!! To Use the word Armour seem to suggest that it will protect you in any situation!! wrong! it might help with a minor fall or knock but I have seen very little evidence that it helped in anything other that that. I still ride a lot and see other riders who seem to think that all their expensive gear and "Top level armour:" give them the feeling they are invincible.I don't expect they would ride like some do if they wore tee shirts and shorts!! I also believe that with regard to insurance, Would they ride as they do if they had 3rd party cover where they would have to pay for their own damage whereas with fully Comp insurance they expect the insurance companies to pick up the tab!! I recall a saying from my Traffic tutor, " You can fall for ever, It's the stopping that hurts"
I dont think there was a problem with your armour video. I actually found it refreshing to hear some common sense around the subject. As you said CE certification was a protectionist law I remember all the coverage about it in the bike magazines at the time, along with leg protectors! Like you Stu ive seen the consequences of people thinking bike gear makes them invincible. Armour is not an appropriate marketing term for certified motorcycle clothing this needs to be changed. Yes some people understand its limitations but, I remember talking to a guy once who actually thought his jacket was bullet proof because it was armoured and had kevlar panels in it! Its interesting reading the comments of ex job guys on here who have an experience of the realities of accidents. As opposed to the joe public comments who have fully bought into armour marketing.
Great comparison video Stu, between these 2 fantastic jackets, I do agree about the price on the Belstaff it's not worth that sort of money where around the £300 for the Barbour is definitely more reasonable and a great investment, trouble is for me as I mentioned before Belstaff has great sentimental family values , ps your armour vid was very fair and to the point, keep up the Great work bud 👍🏼
Oh the joys of a misspent youth! Though, your youth sounded anything but joyful at times. Your video reminded me of my Belstaff bought the same year as yours, 1983 (Eddy's of Leeds if memory serves). No armour, but it survived a slide down Park Lane (in that there Londinium) at 30 mph (honest guv') with only a slight scuff mark on the shoulder. I am doubtful that the outer fabric of my current daily wear jacket (Yamaha Touring made by Ixon), with full armour, would do the same.
Morning Stuart, interesting debate , I have no problem with impact protectors for motorcycle clothing being called armour. It’s a bit of a generic term. There’s even a well known sporting goods manufacturer that uses the word armour in their brand name. Although I wouldn’t necessarily wear their clothing on a bike. Unless of course it was under a jacket containing CE rated armour 🙂
I agree thats exactly the point isn't it? marketing has changed the definition of the term Armour in order to make money! But newcomers to riding may not make the connection?
@@stuartfillingham I agree armour is protective but armour is used like they say ov a tank which maybe the new way but intrinsically wrong, it's just a protection
Never had a Bellmaster but have had Barbours….I like my Barbour for riding in mild weather and with a flat cap (tilted of course) for walking around. Suits my style.
Hi Stuart, I googled the definition of armor and that's a protective plate of material that is designed to slow down the motion of projectile or dissipate the energy of it to protect an object or a person. That material can be Metal, Ceramic, kevlar etc. In the case of the motorcyclist, they will be the projectile if they come off and the 'armor' on the knees, elbows etc may be dissipating the energy between the road and the rider as well as having to wear through the fibers on armor to get to the flesh and bone. So calling it armor may not be that inaccurate. However, as you have said before, it doesn't make a motorcyclist or even a tank invincible.
Bought my Belstaff trialmaster jacket and trousers in the late 70's. Unfortunately not opting for a size larger. The jacket as you say was a bit tight on the upper arms reaching forwards. I did enjoy the longer jacket especially as I rode 12 months a year, with 8 hour or so trips between S Yorkshire and Scotland, year round. I didn't wear the trousers for short trips. You forgot to mention that expecially in the beginning the wax comes off on chairs etc. Many pubs started to refuse bikers coming in with such gear on for that reason. Oh and the worn in shiny look sign of a seasoned biker respect. Anyway an excellent product that does what it says on the tin and more waterproof than the nylon oversuites of the day. I liked the style that much that after recently returning to biking I bought a leather jacket in the same style. Australian bikers gear. Very good quality thick leather including protectors. Do go one size up as cut small. Pockets are a bit small. Amazon. Maybe you would like to review it, I paid about 100€. Bargain. I agree on your comments regarding "armour", just notice the difference how you feel and ride with an open face compared to a full face helmet. I don't envy what you have had to see/deal with in the past and I do feel for the emergency services. It's hard to get those pictures out of your head. Belstaffs were cheaper than Barbour, less purist at the time, but in my opinion better value for money and functionality, cut. Ride safe and consider every other motorist on the road to be an idiot. Back off on the throttle and think about the times when you realised that you probably shouldn't have overtaken when you did and it was a bit close. Yes we've all been there and done it.
Good Morning Stu Thank you for this review as i had both of these jackets , they are both great jackets but i think the Barbour is a better buy , take care mate
Armour or PPE, are the same! We don't duel anymore on a horse 🐴. First time I could remember hearing the word Armour. Fist time I heard PPE was 15 years ago when I got into the health profession. PPE became nationally know in 2020 when the beer bug came around. Few had ever heard the acronym PPE before then. But both refer to protecting yourself if worn correctly, are equipment that protect ourself from the elements. If some one that complains about using the "PPE" acronym, they just heard that 4 years ago and has limited time on this earth. As for Armour, a t shirt can be Armour to the sun and a plate Armour might be good for battle. But it's all about something we wear for what purpose they are to be worn. Thanks uncle
I've never bought a jacket and thought the words armoured or armour mislead me and lead me to think I was impervious to any kind of incoming missiles or other weaponry ! 😂 Myself I used to be annoyed when I liked a particular jacket but couldn't get it without removable "armour " . It does provide some protection, but Myself I don't like how it makes a jacket feel, but that's my choice and opinion. I've never owned a Barbour , when I was a lad I had a Belstaff jacket handed down from my older brother when he stopped riding. I always remember it being pretty waterproof but not all that warm but a couple of pullovers sorted that out . Barbour jackets were something that the more well off riders had ,usually older guys with BMW's in my area . I now wear a Merlin waxed jacket styled on the Belstaff design, even the Merlin logo is a bit of a rip off of the Belstaff logo, but I've had it four years and just re proofed it with Rydell's wax as it just started leaking this winter. Interesting video as usual Stuart Cheers Mel 🍻
Yep, I think motorcycle clothing is quite a lucrative market particularly with older people getting back into motorcycling and having more disposable cash, and if you’re in the business of flogging such stuff, want to protect that market. However, you’re bang on about PPE and the myth of invincibility. Getting back into motorcycling after a long break I benefited from free local authority ride aware courses staffed by serving Police officers, and was delighted to find my instructor was an old colleague from the job. Reading the road, sticking to the police motorcycle road craft book and using commentary re hazards worked a treat for me. Nice work on comparing the two jackets. I’ve got a Richa jacket that I was going to flog, but I think I’ll keep it😁👍. My wife tells me I had a Belstaff in the 80s. No idea what happened to it. Probably went with the bikes when kids came along? Nice work Stuart👍. Have a good weekend.
I'm in pretty much the same boat. Just retired and finally have a bike back in my garage after a very long hiatus while I did the responsible things in life. Time now for a bit of "me" time riding, (responsibly and sedately), on my new T100. I am gradually gearing up in anticipation of spring. I will wear "gear." But, I have no illusions about the gear saving me from every eventuality. I think taking courses to get some skills back, and practicing those skills, is the best thing I can do. Enjoy your riding time. 🙂
The belstaff definitely looks smarter and more stylish which is what I think you are paying the extra for and that's why they command a higher price. I would say people are much more image conscious these days compared to just getting the right jacket to do the job when they were originally made. Great video btw.
I really enjoyed this detailed comparison. As the owner of 5 Barbour jackets and a Belstaff Trialmaster Pro jacket (the motorcycle /armoured version) I can say that Belstaff is presenting itself as a high fashion brand whilst Barbour, although not cheap by all means, is more present and more obtainable. Just look at the Belstaff's stores: there are litteraly couple of them in whole EU, while Barbour is much more easier to find. That said, I must emphasize the quality of Belstaff and the great fit (at least for taller person). The Pro version comes with D3O armour and the thermal liner, although the jacket is very well insulated even without it. Now, the thermal liner for Barbour costs between 80 to 150 € or GBP, and that should be taken into consideration when reaching the final conclusion (I really think that you can not ride a thin, non lined jacket during late autumn or winter, because you can only put a limited number of layers without limiting your arms movement) . I got mine Trialmaster with a 30% discount from shop in France so I am really satisfied with the price. The best part of both products is that they are not flashy but you can tell that it is a great and well thought design and superior materials. Thank you for this video.
I’m a bit confused here. When I was looking for a wax cotton jacket 3 years ago, I went for the belstaff trailmaster motorcycle version since it was 10 oz instead of the 8 of the barbour, had a waterproof liner (maybe overkill in a wax cotton jacket but better double dry than soaking) and the d3o protectors on shoulders and elbow’s with a pocket for a back protector, which I also included. So at least more safety than nothing imho. Anyway both traditional looking jackets so they all get my thumbs up.
Stu I totally agree with you re Armour. You can ride with as much "Armour" as you like but if a human being hist a solid object, no amount of Armour will stop bones breaking and organs being crushed. It just gives a false sense of security. I write this as a motorcyclist of 55 years experience and a fomer "Job" motorcycle patrolman .
As someone who has to wear all manner of PPE for work I would agree that, yes motorcycle body "amour" is PPE. I do wear it and have been glad on several occasions that i was wearing it. Saying that most of my riding is done in the forests and deserts of Australia. I also carry an InReach and a 2L hydration back pack. Unfortunately unscheduled dismounts happen often.
Good impartial video Stu. I’ve not owned a waxed cotton motorcycle jacket as most bar, one, jackets have been leather which have kept me unscathed. I understand what they mean my armour and realise that it is not a Magickal form of protection. PPE is probably promoted in the workplace as a preventative of liable action in the occurrence of an accident. I wear armoured leathers because it’s available and I’m older and don’t bounce like I did when I was 16. It wasn’t available back then.
You can still get new copies of the Belstaff and Babour jackets made by a British manufacturer at a third of their prices and made with heavier wax cotton, if you look around the internet.
Probably not relevant but I had a Barbour for horseriding. It died after 10 years!! I wish I still had it for the Himalayan! Two way zip. Comfortable. Loved it.
Have a Barbour International for 11 years and have been wearing it consistently for day-to-day use, riding, and traveling. As soon as it gets too tattered, I'm buying another.
When I buy a new motorcycle jacket, first thing I do is take out the armour, I have a draw full of the things,ifind armour so uncomfortable, and never fits properly. In my army days it was belstaff or barbour .love the vids stu.
I remember that back in the 2000s Belstaff were purchased by an Italian company and moved into motorcycle style fashion garments, and the prices rocketed! It seems there is an element of that pricing strategy with the brand, now they are targeting the motorcycle market again.
A friend recently ordered a Belstaff from across the pond... bit of sticker shock... but he said it was a nice jacket. I've had my Barbour for many years.... even at that time it was pricy... but it's proven to be worth the investment... wears well... and has provided comfort and service ... 😎
Hey up mate as every motorcyclist should know there ain't no such thing as armour protection and if they believe there is then just fools , good video enjoyed
I paid £575 2 year's ago for my Belstaff Trailmaster pro (now £650) its 10oz wax cotton comes with D30 armour and detatachable thermal liner,so I was surprised at the price of your Belstaff,does yours come with armour pockets so you can fit it if you want to?, I thought your review was very good and informative, I was even more surprised by the price of the Barbour which I actuallythink looks really good!
I bought a Belstaff back in the early 80's. Kept me warm and dry. It protected me when I crashed. was heavier padded at shoulders and elbows. Wish I still had it.
In terms of denotation I’d say that PPE is more correct in this case and would be my preference; but in terms of connotation armour is the term more commonly used, so I understand what retailers mean when they use that term. I mean you don’t get PPE vehicles do ya, so armour is the correct term in that case; but with clothing PPE is more correct in my thinking. BTW, Barbour provides an excellent after sales service for repairs, rewaxing and repairs. 😊
Great comparison Stu. I have a Barbour Ashby wax jacket (the farmer style one) and while the body is lined with the tartan style cotton, the sleeves are lined with a non-breathable nylon fabric. Whenever I get back from a dog walk my sleeves feel damp, which is annoying. BTW… I just bought a Belstaff Crosby jacket from a certain London retailer, at a 40% discount. At £300 it’s a hell of a jacket!
I have exactly the same jacket and have the same issue!..wringing wet arms and sleeves after a dog walk etc!….apparently you can send the coat back to Barbour and the factory will replace the nylon sleeves lining with cotton ones to match the main body of the coat…(not sure on the cost though nowadays..according to forums on the subject from 2 years ago it was around £35) 👍
Man up both of you! I have been wearing the Ashby for 3 years of dog walking twice a day and yes arms can get a little damp just as they do with all these hi tech breathable fabrics but it aint going to kill you!
The Speedwear Classic is good as well. A bargain at £93 and a very nice company to deal with. Heavy duty cotton. The only drawback is they are a tighter fit than a Barbour, so to get the right length of jacket it is a squeeze to wear over a leather. I tried the next size up and it looked massively larger. In the end I did get a Barbour second hand for wearing over a leather, but can't bring myself to sell on the Speedwear jacket.
I had Belstaff wax jacket in 1980. Worth every penny when i came off on icy bend and slid on my back down the road 20 odd yards. Also glad i had full face helmet. Then carried on my journey to pass my PPL skill test. Must have been the adrenaline.
Great informative review thanks Stu...just looked at issued PPE and no armour, maybe boots, so I'm thinking motorcyclist protective gear reasonably called armoured if so fitted.
Barbour jackets are still made in South Shields and there's a documentary on the subject which is somewhere on You tube I'll look for the link and post it.I remember watching it ,it's about the ladies that make them and the fact that so little has changed,the ladies have worked there for generations and they have the same piped music that they've always worked along to.Theres a short film on here of of current king visiting the factory a couple of years ago being shown how to wax a jacket by one of the Barbour ladies.By the way I've owned both as the Belstaff was made local to me in Longton (Its made abroad nowadays)and was the cheap and cheerful version back in 1976.The modern Belstaff is vastly overpriced and not a patch on the Barbour for less money,oh and that daft metsl plaque on the Belstaff on the lower part of the jacket ain't gonna do yer tank much good - style over content me thinks!
The majority of Barbours are no longer made in UK but in eastern europe. Barbour still produce some heritagejackets in South Shields but they command a premium. Most Barbours no longer say made in UK!
I thought you Armor vid was very well balanced and common sense. I for one believe the word Armor in advertising this clothing is misleading. It should be described as motorcycle PPE.
Hi Stewart, just a comment on the Belstaff vs Barbour video, I have a couple of Belstaff Jackets, they make a motorcycle range, slightly heavier duty material and shoulder and elbow armour already included, just thought I'd mention. One other point be very careful when buying Belstaff jackets, when i bought mine probably ten years ago now. There were alot of copies/ fakes about on the internet, some obvious with dodging descriptions, obviously from non english speakers. Back then I'm not sure now, you could only buy from certain stockists, and the price was the price take it or leave it. Love my Belstaff though, don't wear it on the bike much, tend to wear by leather jackets for obvious reasons.
Just like when seat belts came in, people thought they were indestrucable, and found out to their cost they weren't. Having been a Fireman in my youth I know when a fast moving object hits a stationary object no amount of 'armour' will save your innards from being damaged. Armour should be called padding and come in different strengths and will save you from severe abraison and at slow speeds minor breaks. Armour is much like firedoors, they work well in the test lab but should not at all costs be put to the test in real life.
It ain't armour, it's "Impact Absorbing Protection". Your good old steel armour suit as worn by Lancelot would probably do you more damage than T Shirt and jeans as there is no give in it. At 75 I don't bounce as well as I did when in my teens and have less muscle over my joints so, an extra bit of protection over them makes sense, just in case.
I had one of those waxed cotton jackets in the late 60's. I think it was a Barbour and it did not have armor or ppe or whatever you want to call it. Kept me dry for a long time.
How tall are you Stuart? I am 173 cm and considering purchasing the Belstaff. However, I am sceptical about whether it will look too long on me. Thanks
@@stuartfillingham Great, looking forward to it. I am also wondering whether I will destroy it if I put lapel badges and a patch on it. I.E will I damage the integrity of the material and its water resistance. It is great that you are doing videos like this, which I consider to be part of our social history. There is not much info out there.
@@patrickohara9550 Pin badges are fine if you just put them on the top pocket flaps, as for patches shouldnt be an issue although you may have to run a little thornproof dressing around the stitches and melt it in with a hair dryer. You might be ok without doing that if you use a fine thread!
Thanks for your video! Although I’m a big fan of both types of jackets; there is one problem you didn’t mention. In Europe you are not allowed to drive without a CE-certified gear. And please correct me if I’m wrong, but Barbour don’t give that kind of certified armor as standard in the jackets. And Belstaff does. So there is not much of a choice; and I can’t understand Barbour that they are not in to this???
Covered all this in the last 2 videos. there are no EU countries that mandate Certified clothing while riding a motorcycle. France and Spain however do mandate the wearing of CE certified gloves.
You have misinterpreted the laws. safety motorcycle clothing in this context simply means jackets with long sleeves and long legged trousers. NOT PPE. It is just to stop people riding in shorts and Tee shirts!
While I understand the concerns around the use of the word "Armour" Calling it PPE also have negative implications. Mention PPE to a lot of working men and they'll roll their eyes, considering it overkill, not needed and making the job more awkward. If riders are feeling invincible because of the word "armour" then I'd suggest they need re educating on a whole range of biking issues
so which is best? A marketing word that exaggerates protection? or a description that doesnt? what you do need to consider is that there are a lot of people for whom rational thought and reasoning is just something that happens to other people!
@@stuartfillingham I think we're mixing up the real world definition of "Armour" and a "Hollywood" definition. If you look at the role of Armour in the military, whether its armoured vehicles, ceramic plates in body armour or a good old fashion "knight in shining armour" Its role is that in certain circumstances it may reduce injury and may even save your life, no one who uses armour in that environment thinks its makes them invincible. So I'd suggest the motorcycle armour companies are using the term correctly. "Hollywood" armour on the other hand enables Batman to have bullets pinging off him left right and centre. Yes fully understand the the rational thought comment
@@twowheelsoneleg5672 I think watching too many fictional films has rendered you somewhat confused. Hollywood? Batman? Armour is intended to resist penetration, PPE in this context isn't, in fact its full of bloody great holes for ventilation! I have used composite Bullet proof Armour but it is a very different product to motorcycle clothing.
I have the Barbour and I see yours has the same minor issue, the length of the belt. Despite having plenty of holes, it seems whatever size jacket you need, the supplied belt will only fasten in the first 1 or 2. I spoke to Barbour and they say that's how it should be, although I'm sure many people would appreciate a slightly longer belt
@@DirkGentley42 my thoughts exactly. I rang them about it and was told they could make a new belt but I’d have to send them the original one and then pay them £35 for the privilege!
Belstaff is more stylish but the prices are crazy (unless sale price) and more up to date materials. Ps I have 3 Belstaff leather jackets & 2 Belstaff motorbike textiles and 1 Barbour
Would be nice if barbour would make a jacket with more protection in it for bike riding. If they had some light armor and a little bit of kevlar for slide resistance, then I'd be all over that.
I have last several years a jacket from Aldi. Barely fault it. Interesting it meets Australian bike clothing standards. One test must be a certain weight of sand or something inside jacket then dragged down the road. It exceeded that std.
A word on the Barbour International. Everyone recommends going down a size for a tailored fit. Unless you’re as thin as Kate Moss on a diet, ignore this recommendation and stick your regular chest size. I had to return a jacket to England from Canada on my own dime. Heed my advice.
My view is that 'armour' is an over ambitious term which may lead riders into a false sense of security and could lead them to ride with more abandon. Whilst you can never wear too much protection, I do feel that wearing a full deep sea divers suit on your motorcycle could inevitably give you a false sense of security.
As a Canadian actual "armored clothing" is technically illegal unless specific and approved reasons. Now i know and i would like to think most would know the difference. But it starts to skate that grey line area and unfortunately there are a lot of daft people out there. As a side note it would be interesting to see it go thru our customs labeled as "armored clothing" 😂 again lots of daft people everywhere these days
In my view, when the term 'armour' is used in conjunction with motorcycle clothing it's obvious that the meaning is different to when used in conjunction with security force clothing, or that worn by medieval knights. Isn't it? Isn't it? People can be pedants if they wish, however deep down they know. Ha 😂 Nice review and comparison between the two companies and styles. Neither fits my style, if I may say so, but on this evidence Barbour would be my choice. You look very dapper in both. I like the motorcycle clothing made by the French company called Fuel.
my opinion is that the word armor in reference to motorcycle gear (jackets, pants or any type of motorcyle clothing) is not appropriate in other words it misleads people. again my opinion it comes down to marketing stratagy. where the word armor is used appropriately is in military, law enforcment and other sectors that armor is needed this does not include in any way shape or form to motorcycle gear. military for example the protective vest that is worn has sleeves to insert a ballistic plate front and back it is inserted via the vest sleeves which in turn make and turn that vest armor (ballistic) enough said Thank You Enjoy.
Sadly the Belstaff jackets of today are more a designer item and very nice for casual wear. I own a 50 year old belstaff and it still keeps me dry and warm. Not so with my Belstaff Trialmaster ( 8 years old now ) looks very nice but wear it on the bike in heavy rain and you will get wet. I also have Merlin and Oxford wax jackets. These were at least half the price and both have kept me dry and warm in torrential rain.
The history of BARBOUR trumps BELSTAFF because Barbour is a true English icon and has been designed and made in England throughout it's history. Belstaff, on the other hand has changed ownership many times and has been manufactured in other countries including Italy, Romania and Hungary. The original Belstaff Trialmaster was a knock off of the Barbour International Jacket. The Barbour jackets are the clever man's choice in terms of value for money. Belstaff jackets had an odd label saying DESIGNED in England for many years which looked and sounded a bit silly.
The histories of both firms are contentious and lost in the mists of time - what is not debatable is that Barbour now make fashion jackets whereas Belstaff have embraced modern technical features and wrapped them in a traditional looking jacket. Although they also sell the old version too, for some reason. Which seems to be the one reviewed here, which is fair enough - the Barbour is equally antiquated.Things have moved on a lot, even in the last 20 years though. We can have traditional looks and modern protection in one jacket.
@@MrB1967 Barbour is still run by the Barbour family and still maintain their original clothing lines but have added new ones. What is contentious about that?
Nothing!! But way back, who did what first.. Not so sure. Both their websites make contradictory claims. Not that it matters now though! Mrs B has a leather Barbour jacket, made for Triumph with dual branding on it. What I'd call a "proper" bike jacket, with the Moto symbol on the label, impact protectors, a waterproof membrane and all. Not my kind of thing but she thinks it's a wonderful jacket and it's done great over the last four years.
@@MrB1967 I actually own BOTH jackets. My BARBOUR International Union Jack edition is my workhorse. I also have a 1995 battered Belstaff Trialmaster with the odd "designed in England' label (owned by an Italian and made in Romania). Out of the 2 I think the Barbour's build quality exceeds Belstaff slightly. When you factor in that Belstaff has become a fashion garment and are sold for silly prices, the Barbour wins on all levels. Both are nice to own but those looking for maximum 'bang for buck' the clever buy is Barbour every time. BARBOUR have always been made in Blighty and for me that is the real clincher.... By the way, I love my Belstaff leather Panther too (but its made in Turkey)..
Oh my, that a firm changes ownership more than once is absolutely normal in this „globalized“ world, doesnt mean anything, neither good nor bad. Made in England ( Germany, oh no, in EU or whatever) patriotism is pointless, therefore. Designed in England isnt that bad, nevertheless, think of Apple and their smartphones „ assembled in China, Designed in California“. Neither silly nor odd. Do you think Apple are idiots?
Armor is just another word for protection. Common sense is just not common anymore I swear. A swimsuit denim attire Kevlar ceramic sheepskin or latex😂 here we are arguing words and definitions yet again.... seems to be a running theme lately good grief speed kills and no matter what bikers should always keep the mindset that everyone is up to kill them stay vigilant
The simple answer to the person from whichever company it was is, put your money where your mouth is, prove it, do a video showing that in a hard impact at speed with a stationery object that they save lives, give us facts and figures that they work, not an abrasion test or a high side on to tarmac but an actual impact test.
I'll take the opportunity to comment on something other than the jackets. So many reviews of the Bullet and Scram remark that these bikes are not suitable for freeways. Why is that? If one is travelling on a Bullet at 90km per hour then cars/bikes going faster than that are free to change lanes and overtake. I rode through France back in September 2023 and often used freeways. No problem. Faster vehicles simply changed lanes and passed me. Nobody had an issue.
Its not armor its impact protection and the word amor should be removed from any advertising as it gives a false expectation of the protection it provides, its dishonest marketing, just my 10 cents worth.
Motorcycle armor / PPE is designed to work within a specification i.e. speed and impact. Just as other armor is designed to wishstand a specific specification. When that specification is exceeded it will fail. This applies as much to motorcycle armor/PPE as is does tank armor. Obviously one should not be confused with the other, 😮 or things may get a little weighty. 😅 In my opinion somethingy is better than nothing. Some are better than others. Do your research, by the best you can afford and don't ride like a dick. Have fun and keep it rubber side down. 😊
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Hi Stuart. My penny's worth on safe riding.
Firstly I want to be understood clearly. I'm not dismissing the benefits of all PPE in motorcycle riding.
I spent nearly 40 yrs as a paramedic in NZ, I've seen what you have seen.
I started riding motorcycles as a teenager. In our country helmets were not compulsory.
I was always aware of how vulnerable I was. Later helmets were made compulsory. My attitude changed, I felt protected.
Armor is great if you have an oops.
But be aware, folk seem to have an unrealistic attitude towards this gear.
It's not hard to spend $1000. NZ on a helmet. That helmet will do less to protect you than riding safely.
There is a general feeling by motorcycle riders that car drivers are responsible for most of our crashes. Low speed.. maybe.. like intersection crashes .
But , and I'm expecting flack here... the majority of serious crashes involving death are from excessive speed of motorcyclist.
Sorry folk. But the truth is that. I was there time after time.
My point exactly Peter! I think some people have trouble understanding this concept, Thanks for your input!
100% agree.
True, for under 30km/h it should help you get away with brushing. 30-50km/h hopefully just sprains, minor abrasions and non threatening concussion... but after that is you, your God, and the luck of how you slide, fall, hit things with in the limits of such PPE. They are there to help, not to bulletproof you, how you ride and how you avoid events matter. Remember, abstinence is the best contraceptive, an condom helps but is not 100% guarantee, you need to have extra care/protection and use it as intended.
Couldn’t agree more, Peter. If all motorcyclists (and car drivers) started out with the understanding that whatever happens, it’s their fault, their day might be a heck of a lot safer. If the car driver pulls out in front of me, it’s my fault that I wasn’t scanning ahead and anticipating that all drivers won’t see me and will pull out. If I spill on a corner, it’s because I wasn’t handling the machine well enough; too fast, wrong position, unaware of the limit point, etc. Similarly with filtering, overtaking, right-turn violations, etc.
Man, I envy your riding in NZ. I visit family once every couple of years and would love to have my Bonnie with me to explore your fabulous country. As I always tell those who think they might like to visit … NZ comes with a big health warning; you won’t want to come home! (and when you do, make sure it’s not in a box. It’s a fun country, but should be treated with respect).
Yep 💯 agree speed kills
If you slow it down you have time to respond
Belstaff for me in the late 70’s. Still got a photo of me & my pal in them with our 4four & Rd when 400’s were considered a big big. We’re still biking together too
After your last Barbour video, I bought one at £164 on line. I am extremely impressed with it. When I was a Police motorcyclist back in the 70s we had Belstaff. Unfortunately they weren’t that good in the wet. We used to put a broadsheet newspaper underneath for extra protection. Thanks for the videos. Paul
Thanks Stuart for confirming my thoughts about these jackets. I will be going Barbour .
Motorcycle armor for riding safety is similar to carrying a 10mm pistol in the woods of Montana. Both may help you survive but an suv or a grizzly bear are going to give you a bad day.....
A very good comparison, thank you. I`m in the market for a waxed cotton jacket. Having owned a Belstaff as my first proper bike jacket back in the early 80`s when here in Australia, basically any serious motorcyclist owned one, now I find them hideously overpriced and difficult to find. The Barbour, is much more reasonably priced and as I`ve just learnt, much the same jacket, albeit with a stronger heritage. I have emailed both companies to find out if they send to Australia as I`m struggling to find an Aussie outlet.
Got my mum to bring one back from pomy land late 70s she got a red one which ended up a sort ov pink colour after lots ov sun and dirt
As it turns out, it`s impossible to buy a Barbour in Oz. there are a few stockist here, but they are only interested in the fashion stuff. None wanted to special order the International jacket. So Belstaff it is. I bit the bullet and bought a Trialmaster. @@johngibson3837
I purchased my Belstaf Trial Master waxed cotton jacket and pants in 1975. One of my sons now wears them when he's my pillion.
Very thought provoking Stuart. The most important message in your videos on PPE is that riding sensibly will reduce your risk of an accident and injury way way more than anything else. For me, I do kit up with full PPE every time I ride because, as some others have commented on, it will help in the event of a slide. Or just preventing a bruise falling off the damn thing when stationary! But that's all I expect from it.
I love my International. I had one as a young enduro rider in my 20’s and it lasted for years, went out and bought a new one last year. Perfect on my Triumphs and always gets high style comments.
The description "Armour" suggests it can withstand piercing by an object or projectile. Motorcycle clothing can not resist piercing so it is not armour. I'm surprised the advertising standards authority have not stopped this!
@@Howard1776 I think the operative term in you comment was "I have never thought". Armour is designed to be impervious to penetration. When the enemy defeats it, it is upgraded to try and defeat the weapon. Tanks went through constant redesign throughout WW2 in order to counter more powerful weapons. So did medieval armour. Bike clothing is not in anyway designed to resist penetration in fact it has slots and holes in it to allow ventilation so your comment is pointless.
I’m a Belstaff man I just think they look that bit more stylish 👍
Many thanks for this review. I’m planning to buy a waxed cotton jacket as a retirement present to myself and think I will buy a barber one. There’s also a shop in my town that sells the brand
Morning Stewart. Honestly I didn't see anything wrong in your previous vid about motorcycling armour cloathing. I borrowed a mates armoured jacket once and I found the armour irritating after about 30 miles riding. He is slightly larger than me by the way so perhaps that's why I found wearing his armoured leather jacket annoying? Enjoyed your second installment on these jackets too. So until your next vid, safe riding sir 👍.
Hello sir. Great videos. I recently went from a leather jacket to a barbour international after watching your videos. It was a great move. Such a great classic jacket, more comfortable and breaths really well. I love it. Thanks for your great video.
Morning Uncle Stu, As a retired Traffic Officer/Motorcyclist/Family Liaison Officer I, as you, saw many fatal motorcycle accidents and dealt with the aftermath!! To Use the word Armour seem to suggest that it will protect you in any situation!! wrong! it might help with a minor fall or knock but I have seen very little evidence that it helped in anything other that that. I still ride a lot and see other riders who seem to think that all their expensive gear and "Top level armour:" give them the feeling they are invincible.I don't expect they would ride like some do if they wore tee shirts and shorts!! I also believe that with regard to insurance, Would they ride as they do if they had 3rd party cover where they would have to pay for their own damage whereas with fully Comp insurance they expect the insurance companies to pick up the tab!! I recall a saying from my Traffic tutor, " You can fall for ever, It's the stopping that hurts"
Correct airbag is the best way to prevent serious injury armour almost a waste if time from 30 yrs experience in A&E 5 yrs in motorbike racing
Brilliant video as always Stuart and I think it should be said it has protection and not armour 😌👍🏻
I dont think there was a problem with your armour video. I actually found it refreshing to hear some common sense around the subject. As you said CE certification was a protectionist law I remember all the coverage about it in the bike magazines at the time, along with leg protectors!
Like you Stu ive seen the consequences of people thinking bike gear makes them invincible. Armour is not an appropriate marketing term for certified motorcycle clothing this needs to be changed. Yes some people understand its limitations but, I remember talking to a guy once who actually thought his jacket was bullet proof because it was armoured and had kevlar panels in it!
Its interesting reading the comments of ex job guys on here who have an experience of the realities of accidents. As opposed to the joe public comments who have fully bought into armour marketing.
Great comparison video Stu, between these 2 fantastic jackets, I do agree about the price on the Belstaff it's not worth that sort of money where around the £300 for the Barbour is definitely more reasonable and a great investment, trouble is for me as I mentioned before Belstaff has great sentimental family values , ps your armour vid was very fair and to the point, keep up the Great work bud 👍🏼
Oh the joys of a misspent youth! Though, your youth sounded anything but joyful at times.
Your video reminded me of my Belstaff bought the same year as yours, 1983 (Eddy's of Leeds if memory serves). No armour, but it survived a slide down Park Lane (in that there Londinium) at 30 mph (honest guv') with only a slight scuff mark on the shoulder. I am doubtful that the outer fabric of my current daily wear jacket (Yamaha Touring made by Ixon), with full armour, would do the same.
Whichever of these jackets, people prefer, they are each great looking products.
Morning Stuart, interesting debate , I have no problem with impact protectors for motorcycle clothing being called armour. It’s a bit of a generic term. There’s even a well known sporting goods manufacturer that uses the word armour in their brand name. Although I wouldn’t necessarily wear their clothing on a bike. Unless of course it was under a jacket containing CE rated armour 🙂
I agree thats exactly the point isn't it? marketing has changed the definition of the term Armour in order to make money!
But newcomers to riding may not make the connection?
@@stuartfillingham I agree armour is protective but armour is used like they say ov a tank which maybe the new way but intrinsically wrong, it's just a protection
Never had a Bellmaster but have had Barbours….I like my Barbour for riding in mild weather and with a flat cap (tilted of course) for walking around. Suits my style.
Hi Stuart,
I googled the definition of armor and that's a protective plate of material that is designed to slow down the motion of projectile or dissipate the energy of it to protect an object or a person.
That material can be Metal, Ceramic, kevlar etc. In the case of the motorcyclist, they will be the projectile if they come off and the 'armor' on the knees, elbows etc may be dissipating the energy between the road and the rider as well as having to wear through the fibers on armor to get to the flesh and bone.
So calling it armor may not be that inaccurate. However, as you have said before, it doesn't make a motorcyclist or even a tank invincible.
Bought my Belstaff trialmaster jacket and trousers in the late 70's. Unfortunately not opting for a size larger. The jacket as you say was a bit tight on the upper arms reaching forwards. I did enjoy the longer jacket especially as I rode 12 months a year, with 8 hour or so trips between S Yorkshire and Scotland, year round. I didn't wear the trousers for short trips. You forgot to mention that expecially in the beginning the wax comes off on chairs etc. Many pubs started to refuse bikers coming in with such gear on for that reason. Oh and the worn in shiny look sign of a seasoned biker respect. Anyway an excellent product that does what it says on the tin and more waterproof than the nylon oversuites of the day. I liked the style that much that after recently returning to biking I bought a leather jacket in the same style. Australian bikers gear. Very good quality thick leather including protectors. Do go one size up as cut small. Pockets are a bit small. Amazon. Maybe you would like to review it, I paid about 100€. Bargain.
I agree on your comments regarding "armour", just notice the difference how you feel and ride with an open face compared to a full face helmet.
I don't envy what you have had to see/deal with in the past and I do feel for the emergency services. It's hard to get those pictures out of your head.
Belstaffs were cheaper than Barbour, less purist at the time, but in my opinion better value for money and functionality, cut.
Ride safe and consider every other motorist on the road to be an idiot. Back off on the throttle and think about the times when you realised that you probably shouldn't have overtaken when you did and it was a bit close. Yes we've all been there and done it.
Good Morning Stu Thank you for this review as i had both of these jackets , they are both great jackets but i think the Barbour is a better buy , take care mate
Barbour all the way for me ! and yes using the words armour and Ballistic in conjunction with motorcycle clothing is miss leading ! ATB thanks.
Armour or PPE, are the same! We don't duel anymore on a horse 🐴. First time I could remember hearing the word Armour. Fist time I heard PPE was 15 years ago when I got into the health profession. PPE became nationally know in 2020 when the beer bug came around. Few had ever heard the acronym PPE before then. But both refer to protecting yourself if worn correctly, are equipment that protect ourself from the elements. If some one that complains about using the "PPE" acronym, they just heard that 4 years ago and has limited time on this earth. As for Armour, a t shirt can be Armour to the sun and a plate Armour might be good for battle. But it's all about something we wear for what purpose they are to be worn. Thanks uncle
Hmm stretching things a bit in my book
I've never bought a jacket and thought the words armoured or armour mislead me and lead me to think I was impervious to any kind of incoming missiles or other weaponry ! 😂
Myself I used to be annoyed when I liked a particular jacket but couldn't get it without removable "armour " .
It does provide some protection, but Myself I don't like how it makes a jacket feel, but that's my choice and opinion.
I've never owned a Barbour , when I was a lad I had a Belstaff jacket handed down from my older brother when he stopped riding. I always remember it being pretty waterproof but not all that warm but a couple of pullovers sorted that out .
Barbour jackets were something that the more well off riders had ,usually older guys with BMW's in my area .
I now wear a Merlin waxed jacket styled on the Belstaff design, even the Merlin logo is a bit of a rip off of the Belstaff logo, but I've had it four years and just re proofed it with Rydell's wax as it just started leaking this winter.
Interesting video as usual Stuart
Cheers Mel 🍻
Barbour clothing is top quality. I've always wondered what the slanted pocket was for, thank you for enlightening me
Yep, I think motorcycle clothing is quite a lucrative market particularly with older people getting back into motorcycling and having more disposable cash, and if you’re in the business of flogging such stuff, want to protect that market. However, you’re bang on about PPE and the myth of invincibility. Getting back into motorcycling after a long break I benefited from free local authority ride aware courses staffed by serving Police officers, and was delighted to find my instructor was an old colleague from the job. Reading the road, sticking to the police motorcycle road craft book and using commentary re hazards worked a treat for me.
Nice work on comparing the two jackets. I’ve got a Richa jacket that I was going to flog, but I think I’ll keep it😁👍. My wife tells me I had a Belstaff in the 80s. No idea what happened to it. Probably went with the bikes when kids came along? Nice work Stuart👍. Have a good weekend.
I'm in pretty much the same boat. Just retired and finally have a bike back in my garage after a very long hiatus while I did the responsible things in life. Time now for a bit of "me" time riding, (responsibly and sedately), on my new T100. I am gradually gearing up in anticipation of spring. I will wear "gear." But, I have no illusions about the gear saving me from every eventuality. I think taking courses to get some skills back, and practicing those skills, is the best thing I can do. Enjoy your riding time. 🙂
The belstaff definitely looks smarter and more stylish which is what I think you are paying the extra for and that's why they command a higher price. I would say people are much more image conscious these days compared to just getting the right jacket to do the job when they were originally made. Great video btw.
I really enjoyed this detailed comparison. As the owner of 5 Barbour jackets and a Belstaff Trialmaster Pro jacket (the motorcycle /armoured version) I can say that Belstaff is presenting itself as a high fashion brand whilst Barbour, although not cheap by all means, is more present and more obtainable. Just look at the Belstaff's stores: there are litteraly couple of them in whole EU, while Barbour is much more easier to find. That said, I must emphasize the quality of Belstaff and the great fit (at least for taller person). The Pro version comes with D3O armour and the thermal liner, although the jacket is very well insulated even without it. Now, the thermal liner for Barbour costs between 80 to 150 € or GBP, and that should be taken into consideration when reaching the final conclusion (I really think that you can not ride a thin, non lined jacket during late autumn or winter, because you can only put a limited number of layers without limiting your arms movement) . I got mine Trialmaster with a 30% discount from shop in France so I am really satisfied with the price. The best part of both products is that they are not flashy but you can tell that it is a great and well thought design and superior materials. Thank you for this video.
I’m a bit confused here. When I was looking for a wax cotton jacket 3 years ago, I went for the belstaff trailmaster motorcycle version since it was 10 oz instead of the 8 of the barbour, had a waterproof liner (maybe overkill in a wax cotton jacket but better double dry than soaking) and the d3o protectors on shoulders and elbow’s with a pocket for a back protector, which I also included. So at least more safety than nothing imho. Anyway both traditional looking jackets so they all get my thumbs up.
Stu I totally agree with you re Armour. You can ride with as much "Armour" as you like but if a human being hist a solid object, no amount of Armour will stop bones breaking and organs being crushed. It just gives a false sense of security. I write this as a motorcyclist of 55 years experience and a fomer "Job" motorcycle patrolman .
As someone who has to wear all manner of PPE for work I would agree that, yes motorcycle body "amour" is PPE. I do wear it and have been glad on several occasions that i was wearing it. Saying that most of my riding is done in the forests and deserts of Australia. I also carry an InReach and a 2L hydration back pack. Unfortunately unscheduled dismounts happen often.
Good impartial video Stu. I’ve not owned a waxed cotton motorcycle jacket as most bar, one, jackets have been leather which have kept me unscathed. I understand what they mean my armour and realise that it is not a Magickal form of protection. PPE is probably promoted in the workplace as a preventative of liable action in the occurrence of an accident. I wear armoured leathers because it’s available and I’m older and don’t bounce like I did when I was 16. It wasn’t available back then.
You can still get new copies of the Belstaff and Babour jackets made by a British manufacturer at a third of their prices and made with heavier wax cotton, if you look around the internet.
Probably not relevant but I had a Barbour for horseriding. It died after 10 years!! I wish I still had it for the Himalayan! Two way zip. Comfortable. Loved it.
Have a Barbour International for 11 years and have been wearing it consistently for day-to-day use, riding, and traveling. As soon as it gets too tattered, I'm buying another.
When I buy a new motorcycle jacket, first thing I do is take out the armour, I have a draw full of the things,ifind armour so uncomfortable, and never fits properly. In my army days it was belstaff or barbour .love the vids stu.
I remember that back in the 2000s Belstaff were purchased by an Italian company and moved into motorcycle style fashion garments, and the prices rocketed! It seems there is an element of that pricing strategy with the brand, now they are targeting the motorcycle market again.
A friend recently ordered a Belstaff from across the pond... bit of sticker shock... but he said it was a nice jacket. I've had my Barbour for many years.... even at that time it was pricy... but it's proven to be worth the investment... wears well... and has provided comfort and service ... 😎
Hey up mate as every motorcyclist should know there ain't no such thing as armour protection and if they believe there is then just fools , good video enjoyed
I paid £575 2 year's ago for my Belstaff Trailmaster pro (now £650) its 10oz wax cotton comes with D30 armour and detatachable thermal liner,so I was surprised at the price of your Belstaff,does yours come with armour pockets so you can fit it if you want to?,
I thought your review was very good and informative, I was even more surprised by the price of the Barbour which I actuallythink looks really good!
I bought a Belstaff back in the early 80's. Kept me warm and dry. It protected me when I crashed. was heavier padded at shoulders and elbows. Wish I still had it.
In terms of denotation I’d say that PPE is more correct in this case and would be my preference; but in terms of connotation armour is the term more commonly used, so I understand what retailers mean when they use that term. I mean you don’t get PPE vehicles do ya, so armour is the correct term in that case; but with clothing PPE is more correct in my thinking. BTW, Barbour provides an excellent after sales service for repairs, rewaxing and repairs. 😊
Great comparison Stu. I have a Barbour Ashby wax jacket (the farmer style one) and while the body is lined with the tartan style cotton, the sleeves are lined with a non-breathable nylon fabric. Whenever I get back from a dog walk my sleeves feel damp, which is annoying. BTW… I just bought a Belstaff Crosby jacket from a certain London retailer, at a 40% discount. At £300 it’s a hell of a jacket!
I have exactly the same jacket and have the same issue!..wringing wet arms and sleeves after a dog walk etc!….apparently you can send the coat back to Barbour and the factory will replace the nylon sleeves lining with cotton ones to match the main body of the coat…(not sure on the cost though nowadays..according to forums on the subject from 2 years ago it was around £35) 👍
Man up both of you! I have been wearing the Ashby for 3 years of dog walking twice a day and yes arms can get a little damp just as they do with all these hi tech breathable fabrics but it aint going to kill you!
Hello Stuart, I can thoroughly recommend Speedwear's Pulford drywax jacket. Well made and value for money
The Speedwear Classic is good as well. A bargain at £93 and a very nice company to deal with. Heavy duty cotton. The only drawback is they are a tighter fit than a Barbour, so to get the right length of jacket it is a squeeze to wear over a leather. I tried the next size up and it looked massively larger. In the end I did get a Barbour second hand for wearing over a leather, but can't bring myself to sell on the Speedwear jacket.
I had Belstaff wax jacket in 1980. Worth every penny when i came off on icy bend and slid on my back down the road 20 odd yards.
Also glad i had full face helmet.
Then carried on my journey to pass my PPL skill test. Must have been the adrenaline.
Wasn't warm in winter. I bought newspapers on one journey to stuff under jacket.
Great informative review thanks Stu...just looked at issued PPE and no armour, maybe boots, so I'm thinking motorcyclist protective gear reasonably called armoured if so fitted.
Barbour jackets are still made in South Shields and there's a documentary on the subject which is somewhere on You tube I'll look for the link and post it.I remember watching it ,it's about the ladies that make them and the fact that so little has changed,the ladies have worked there for generations and they have the same piped music that they've always worked along to.Theres a short film on here of of current king visiting the factory a couple of years ago being shown how to wax a jacket by one of the Barbour ladies.By the way I've owned both as the Belstaff was made local to me in Longton (Its made abroad nowadays)and was the cheap and cheerful version back in 1976.The modern Belstaff is vastly overpriced and not a patch on the Barbour for less money,oh and that daft metsl plaque on the Belstaff on the lower part of the jacket ain't gonna do yer tank much good - style over content me thinks!
The majority of Barbours are no longer made in UK but in eastern europe. Barbour still produce some heritagejackets in South Shields but they command a premium. Most Barbours no longer say made in UK!
I thought you Armor vid was very well balanced and common sense. I for one believe the word Armor in advertising this clothing is misleading. It should be described as motorcycle PPE.
Still better to wear it than not. Just saying😊
I bought a Driza-Bone Belstaff Trailmaster Professional 1992-1993, for one third of the price of a new one, from a charity shop online.
Nice oneStuart, both are nice jackets but the Belstaff is definitely overpriced...
Hi Stewart, just a comment on the Belstaff vs Barbour video, I have a couple of Belstaff Jackets, they make a motorcycle range, slightly heavier duty material and shoulder and elbow armour already included, just thought I'd mention.
One other point be very careful when buying Belstaff jackets, when i bought mine probably ten years ago now. There were alot of copies/ fakes about on the internet, some obvious with dodging descriptions, obviously from non english speakers. Back then I'm not sure now, you could only buy from certain stockists, and the price was the price take it or leave it.
Love my Belstaff though, don't wear it on the bike much, tend to wear by leather jackets for obvious reasons.
Just like when seat belts came in, people thought they were indestrucable, and found out to their cost they weren't. Having been a Fireman in my youth I know when a fast moving object hits a stationary object no amount of 'armour' will save your innards from being damaged. Armour should be called padding and come in different strengths and will save you from severe abraison and at slow speeds minor breaks. Armour is much like firedoors, they work well in the test lab but should not at all costs be put to the test in real life.
I use an Ashley Watson Jacket with armour and it is very robust but probably not as fashonable as either of the two you have shown.
Got one myself
It ain't armour, it's "Impact Absorbing Protection". Your good old steel armour suit as worn by Lancelot would probably do you more damage than T Shirt and jeans as there is no give in it. At 75 I don't bounce as well as I did when in my teens and have less muscle over my joints so, an extra bit of protection over them makes sense, just in case.
I had one of those waxed cotton jackets in the late 60's. I think it was a Barbour and it did not have armor or ppe or whatever you want to call it. Kept me dry for a long time.
I wore gauntlets...still have them but the Belstaff went mouldy!
What is the exact model of Barbour jacket in this review please Stuart , I fancy one
Very smart brogues, Stuart. Loakes? Church’s? Lobb’s, even?
Loake 1880 Bedales!
Very much appreciated. Than’ you.
Nice vid loved it 👍
How tall are you Stuart? I am 173 cm and considering purchasing the Belstaff. However, I am sceptical about whether it will look too long on me. Thanks
Notice you didn’t even attempt to move towards your front brake when seeing that tractor 🚜 ice cool 🆒 😮😂
Just got the international. I like it a lot. I watched your article on ton up boys. What boots did they wear? And what would they where underneath?
Coming soon!
@@stuartfillingham Great, looking forward to it. I am also wondering whether I will destroy it if I put lapel badges and a patch on it. I.E will I damage the integrity of the material and its water resistance. It is great that you are doing videos like this, which I consider to be part of our social history. There is not much info out there.
@@patrickohara9550 Pin badges are fine if you just put them on the top pocket flaps, as for patches shouldnt be an issue although you may have to run a little thornproof dressing around the stitches and melt it in with a hair dryer. You might be ok without doing that if you use a fine thread!
@@stuartfillingham thanks a lot
Thanks for your video!
Although I’m a big fan of both types of jackets; there is one problem you didn’t mention. In Europe you are not allowed to drive without a CE-certified gear. And please correct me if I’m wrong, but Barbour don’t give that kind of certified armor as standard in the jackets. And Belstaff does. So there is not much of a choice; and I can’t understand Barbour that they are not in to this???
Covered all this in the last 2 videos. there are no EU countries that mandate Certified clothing while riding a motorcycle. France and Spain however do mandate the wearing of CE certified gloves.
Thank you for your answer but new laws are coming soon, in Belgium it will be for the next months; the same for the rest of Europe.
You have misinterpreted the laws. safety motorcycle clothing in this context simply means jackets with long sleeves and long legged trousers. NOT PPE. It is just to stop people riding in shorts and Tee shirts!
While I understand the concerns around the use of the word "Armour" Calling it PPE also have negative implications. Mention PPE to a lot of working men and they'll roll their eyes, considering it overkill, not needed and making the job more awkward. If riders are feeling invincible because of the word "armour" then I'd suggest they need re educating on a whole range of biking issues
so which is best? A marketing word that exaggerates protection? or a description that doesnt? what you do need to consider is that there are a lot of people for whom rational thought and reasoning is just something that happens to other people!
@@stuartfillingham I think we're mixing up the real world definition of "Armour" and a "Hollywood" definition. If you look at the role of Armour in the military, whether its armoured vehicles, ceramic plates in body armour or a good old fashion "knight in shining armour" Its role is that in certain circumstances it may reduce injury and may even save your life, no one who uses armour in that environment thinks its makes them invincible. So I'd suggest the motorcycle armour companies are using the term correctly. "Hollywood" armour on the other hand enables Batman to have bullets pinging off him left right and centre. Yes fully understand the the rational thought comment
@@twowheelsoneleg5672 I think watching too many fictional films has rendered you somewhat confused. Hollywood? Batman? Armour is intended to resist penetration, PPE in this context isn't, in fact its full of bloody great holes for ventilation! I have used composite Bullet proof Armour but it is a very different product to motorcycle clothing.
Thanks for this. I am curious, if you wanted to fit some sort of armor under on of these jackets, what products would you use?
I would use a Knox armoured shirt. You can choose an A/AA or AAA version. They can be worn by themselves so are very useful
I have the Barbour and I see yours has the same minor issue, the length of the belt. Despite having plenty of holes, it seems whatever size jacket you need, the supplied belt will only fasten in the first 1 or 2. I spoke to Barbour and they say that's how it should be, although I'm sure many people would appreciate a slightly longer belt
I agree! I did notice the Belstaff belt is much longer!
Yeah, I emailed them about that very issue recently. I cant imagine what physique would be needed for the smaller settings.
@@DirkGentley42 my thoughts exactly. I rang them about it and was told they could make a new belt but I’d have to send them the original one and then pay them £35 for the privilege!
Belstaff is more stylish but the prices are crazy (unless sale price) and more up to date materials. Ps I have 3 Belstaff leather jackets & 2 Belstaff motorbike textiles and 1 Barbour
Great review, but the 6K Rolex explorer flash was bit unnecessary. I thought you were an ok bloke till then lol.
Where do i get a spare for my barbour jacket belt?
Barbour will make one for you if you ask.
Just bought the barber one for £167 , a bargain I thought, a nice jacket
Would be nice if barbour would make a jacket with more protection in it for bike riding. If they had some light armor and a little bit of kevlar for slide resistance, then I'd be all over that.
I have last several years a jacket from Aldi. Barely fault it. Interesting it meets Australian bike clothing standards. One test must be a certain weight of sand or something inside jacket then dragged down the road. It exceeded that std.
A word on the Barbour International. Everyone recommends going down a size for a tailored fit. Unless you’re as thin as Kate Moss on a diet, ignore this recommendation and stick your regular chest size. I had to return a jacket to England from Canada on my own dime. Heed my advice.
My view is that 'armour' is an over ambitious term which may lead riders into a false sense of security and could lead them to ride with more abandon. Whilst you can never wear too much protection, I do feel that wearing a full deep sea divers suit on your motorcycle could inevitably give you a false sense of security.
Yes I do
As a Canadian actual "armored clothing" is technically illegal unless specific and approved reasons.
Now i know and i would like to think most would know the difference. But it starts to skate that grey line area and unfortunately there are a lot of daft people out there.
As a side note it would be interesting to see it go thru our customs labeled as "armored clothing" 😂 again lots of daft people everywhere these days
In my view, when the term 'armour' is used in conjunction with motorcycle clothing it's obvious that the meaning is different to when used in conjunction with security force clothing, or that worn by medieval knights. Isn't it? Isn't it?
People can be pedants if they wish, however deep down they know. Ha 😂
Nice review and comparison between the two companies and styles. Neither fits my style, if I may say so, but on this evidence Barbour would be my choice.
You look very dapper in both.
I like the motorcycle clothing made by the French company called Fuel.
Not everyone has your mindset though eh?
Belstaff is way more stylish imo , the Barbour looks like an old sack to me , each to their own👍
You needed to be able to pad your chest with newspaper even with the clip on Barbour liner so a larger size was the de-rigour
great info
my opinion is that the word armor in reference to motorcycle gear (jackets, pants or any type of motorcyle clothing) is not appropriate in other words it misleads people. again my opinion it comes down to marketing stratagy. where the word armor is used appropriately is in military, law enforcment and other sectors that armor is needed this does not include in any way shape or form to motorcycle gear. military for example the protective vest that is worn has sleeves to insert a ballistic plate front and back it is inserted via the vest sleeves which in turn make and turn that vest armor (ballistic) enough said Thank You Enjoy.
In summary Barbour -Royal Enfield, Belstaff -Triumph
Sadly the Belstaff jackets of today are more a designer item and very nice for casual wear. I own a 50 year old belstaff and it still keeps me dry and warm. Not so with my Belstaff Trialmaster ( 8 years old now ) looks very nice but wear it on the bike in heavy rain and you will get wet. I also have Merlin and Oxford wax jackets. These were at least half the price and both have kept me dry and warm in torrential rain.
The history of BARBOUR trumps BELSTAFF because Barbour is a true English icon and has been designed and made in England throughout it's history. Belstaff, on the other hand has changed ownership many times and has been manufactured in other countries including Italy, Romania and Hungary. The original Belstaff Trialmaster was a knock off of the Barbour International Jacket. The Barbour jackets are the clever man's choice in terms of value for money. Belstaff jackets had an odd label saying DESIGNED in England for many years which looked and sounded a bit silly.
The histories of both firms are contentious and lost in the mists of time - what is not debatable is that Barbour now make fashion jackets whereas Belstaff have embraced modern technical features and wrapped them in a traditional looking jacket. Although they also sell the old version too, for some reason. Which seems to be the one reviewed here, which is fair enough - the Barbour is equally antiquated.Things have moved on a lot, even in the last 20 years though. We can have traditional looks and modern protection in one jacket.
@@MrB1967 Barbour is still run by the Barbour family and still maintain their original clothing lines but have added new ones. What is contentious about that?
Nothing!! But way back, who did what first.. Not so sure. Both their websites make contradictory claims. Not that it matters now though! Mrs B has a leather Barbour jacket, made for Triumph with dual branding on it. What I'd call a "proper" bike jacket, with the Moto symbol on the label, impact protectors, a waterproof membrane and all. Not my kind of thing but she thinks it's a wonderful jacket and it's done great over the last four years.
@@MrB1967 I actually own BOTH jackets. My BARBOUR International Union Jack edition is my workhorse. I also have a 1995 battered Belstaff Trialmaster with the odd "designed in England' label (owned by an Italian and made in Romania). Out of the 2 I think the Barbour's build quality exceeds Belstaff slightly. When you factor in that Belstaff has become a fashion garment and are sold for silly prices, the Barbour wins on all levels. Both are nice to own but those looking for maximum 'bang for buck' the clever buy is Barbour every time. BARBOUR have always been made in Blighty and for me that is the real clincher.... By the way, I love my Belstaff leather Panther too (but its made in Turkey)..
Oh my, that a firm changes ownership more than once is absolutely normal in this „globalized“ world, doesnt mean anything, neither good nor bad. Made in England ( Germany, oh no, in EU or whatever) patriotism is pointless, therefore. Designed in England isnt that bad, nevertheless, think of Apple and their smartphones „ assembled in China, Designed in California“. Neither silly nor odd. Do you think Apple are idiots?
Armor is just another word for protection.
Common sense is just not common anymore I swear. A swimsuit denim attire Kevlar ceramic sheepskin or latex😂 here we are arguing words and definitions yet again.... seems to be a running theme lately good grief speed kills and no matter what bikers should always keep the mindset that everyone is up to kill them stay vigilant
"Armor is just another word for protection." no its not really!
Yes the word armor is misleading, giving those who don't recognize it a false sense of security. PPE for me!
The simple answer to the person from whichever company it was is, put your money where your mouth is, prove it, do a video showing that in a hard impact at speed with a stationery object that they save lives, give us facts and figures that they work, not an abrasion test or a high side on to tarmac but an actual impact test.
In fact, be the ' crash test dummy' yourself, Mr. Salesman!
We can be guided by your experience.
Let’s look at that Rolex Explorer!
I'll take the opportunity to comment on something other than the jackets. So many reviews of the Bullet and Scram remark that these bikes are not suitable for freeways. Why is that? If one is travelling on a Bullet at 90km per hour then cars/bikes going faster than that are free to change lanes and overtake. I rode through France back in September 2023 and often used freeways. No problem. Faster vehicles simply changed lanes and passed me. Nobody had an issue.
I agree with you!
Its not armor its impact protection and the word amor should be removed from any advertising as it gives a false expectation of the protection it provides, its dishonest marketing, just my 10 cents worth.
Some biking gear
Motorcycle armor / PPE is designed to work within a specification i.e. speed and impact. Just as other armor is designed to wishstand a specific specification. When that specification is exceeded it will fail. This applies as much to motorcycle armor/PPE as is does tank armor. Obviously one should not be confused with the other, 😮 or things may get a little weighty. 😅
In my opinion somethingy is better than nothing. Some are better than others. Do your research, by the best you can afford and don't ride like a dick. Have fun and keep it rubber side down. 😊
The Belstaff looks cooler on you
Belstaff are now owned by Ineos.....them of chemicals and many sports teams.....
Armor is for the road/asphalt, road rash sliding down the road not bouncing off cars or guard rails. Bike vs auto = 70% dead biker.
If it doesn’t stop a bullet, it’s not armor.