Bike Fitting: Is It A Waste Of Money?
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- Опубликовано: 28 июл 2024
- Do you NEED a bike fit? As cyclists, a bike fit is a big attraction to many of us, but is it just another marketing ploy by the cycling industry? We've been to put some challenging questions to professional physio and bike fitter to the pros, Phil Burt, to find out more!
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Have you ever had a bike fit and did it help you? Let us know your experiences! 👇
no, and yes.
I had one with a physio and using the Sella Italia Id Match. My bike was pretty close already, Saddle went up 2mm and forward 1mm, stem went from a 90mm to 100mm and dropped 3mm and new bars from 420's to 400's. The biggest and best change was the cleat fitting I had at the same time; it made everything much more comfortable as my knee was off line. The cleats were moved inward a few mm but made a world of difference straight away.
It 100% helped my comfort on the bike.
@@jonlee7440 That's great to hear! Will you be getting a fit for all your future bikes? 👀
Kind of when I bought my Felt Verza Speed 50 they adjusted the Saddle height for me and yes it did help.
I got a Canyon Roadlight 6 coming in soon and the store has a fitting as part of my purchase never had a real one done before curious to see how it goes.
I would love to put clipless pedals on it but I ride in the city and I'm on and off the pedals at stops, crossings, etc
I did my own bike fit using MotionSys for pedaling video analysis and BikeFitAdvisor for target angles. At 65 yrs my back was rebelling against my race bike geometry and I was nervous about getting the best fit before ordering a new more relaxed bike. I'm now riding 7000-9000 miles a year pain free on my new Endurace.
When I turned 70 I started to get a lot of overuse injuries....did a lot of physio etc but couldn't get rid of the injuries...went to a bike fit by a reputable fitter (did research) and now I can ride without pain and hopefully continue riding into my 80s. Made a lot of little adjustments in stem length, seat height, cleats etc...Definitely worth it to be able to keep riding as long as you can....
Thanks, I’m buying book 2 :)
How bad was your bike dude… if that’s all it took?
You can never have too much Phil Burt. Getting world class experts like him is a great move by the channel to bring credibility on technical subjects. Great work GCN.
Great to hear you enjoyed it! Who should get one next? 👀
@@gcn I would love to see more bike fit videos from GCN, as it would be useful for cyclists of all levels.
Yes, the Bike Fit James constantly contradicting himself on the Francis Cade channel initially put me off. Massively overexposed.
Phil Burt, introduced through Katie Kookaburra speaks sense and also says it consistently.
@@gcn maybe you could do bike fits for gravel bikes - but the less-aggressive, non-racing/non-competitive side of gravel bikes. The more bike packing style of gravel bikes, I guess, not someone who wants to race Unbound.
@@Tangocita444 agreed
Confessions from a former bike fitter here: I would say Phil is spot on, it all depends on what you need from the fit. I have no medical background and learnt how to bike fit by doing the two 3-day courses at a bike brand. I felt woefully under qualified in a fair few fits where customers would present with existing medical conditions that would affect their position on the bike, I would be honest with people and say they may be better off seeking help from a medical professional. For the majority of people however you can get them into a great comfortable position following the basic principles, which I also feel most people can probably do themselves. My advice would be to try it yourself and if you are still having pain/issues, see a medically trained professional such as Phil. If you have no idea what you are doing by all means get a bike fit at your local bike shop but bear in mind there is usually a reason they are cheaper than the likes of Phil.
Long time bike fitter here. The issue with medical professionals is that nearly none of them know a single thing about cycling. As a fitter, it's your duty to learn about physiological differences between people and how to address those things on a bike. You can learn how to address the bulk of issues without a physio background, much from people that have those backgrounds
@@veganpotterthevegan How about one who is also a PT? For example, John Weirath from his BikeFitAdviser channel is a level 4 fitter, but also a PT. I was considering looking him up when I head westward past Colorado. There is a level 4 fitter in my state who seems to have a ton of experience, but he's not a physio or PT. Opinions?
@@veganpotterthevegan Agreed, with caveats. Many caveats exist in just changing the shoes alone, and where they now sit on the pedals, and the toe-in or not they present. There's a myriad of details that may present as optimized in a bike fit, but then well off of optimal with a slight change. Even the amount of padding in a glove (something the road-bike world have lost track of, gloves two decades ago were vastly more ergonomically protective) can throw-off a fitting, or the thickness of your socks in your shoes.
I posit that many *attuned* cyclists can suss their own fit to optimum...or at least to the point where no further performance gains can be had by external examination. Your body tells you what's working and what isn't.
*For many* not all.
@Stephen Saines shoes are extremely important and I think every bike fitter should have a basic understanding of podiatry. Gloves are a bit tricky though. As someone with nerve damage in my hands from time as a high level shot putter before losing 140lbs to race bikes, I can't stand gloves of any kind and only wear them for winter riding out of necessity. Every glove I've tried has hurt me more than being gloveless from thin, to thick, to snug and oversized.
@Stephen Saines I agree on experienced cyclists fitting themselves. Although many ride themselves into problems by having a fit that's comfortable but puts them in poor for and aft balance with power and not doing any cross training to support their weaknesses.
Yeah, I had a bike fit. From the same guy that sold me my bike. Put me on a frame that is obviously too large for me and I didn't know at the time. Fast forward a few years and I've replaced the cranks, the bars, the stem, the seat post, and the saddle all in the name of getting 51cm geometry out of a 54cm bike. Horrid experience that left me not trusting the bike industry at all.
I had a bike fit after suffering reoccurring knee problems that almost completely stopped me from cycling for years. My bike did seem to be very badly wrong, but the issue was supposedly my wonky high arched feet. I was sold freefloat pedals and various insoles…. Same problems kept happening for 10 years.
The same knee problem stopped me from being able to run too. I went to a private running specialist physio who immediately diagnosed my week and lopsided hip muscles. The within a year of doing strength exercises - running 10 miles with little issues, but cycling 100+ mile sportives with no issues.
Physio was the better spent money for me.
Had a bike fit after resisting it for a year. It has completely changed my level of comfort on the bike. As a 55 year old this is not about performance, though that improved, it’s about
Being able to cycle longer and more efficiently.
Highly recommended.
Exactly a poorly suited bike is bad for you.
We tackled assembling the bike as a family project. ruclips.net/user/postUgkxzg0clhbtRf2gGxPkVETFKJJKGqdsorQu The package is heavy, but I have 2 teen boys that were able to move it. The written instructions were great- we didn't need to watch the videos, but it was good knowing that the option was there if we needed it. After we were able to get it set up, the boys each rode 3 miles and I rode 8 and the bike stayed quiet. The display is easy to reset, and you can put it on whichever setting you are using (time, distance, calories, etc). I will say that my butt is a little sore from the seat, but that could be because I haven't rode in a while. While it is comfortable for me, it was not comfortable with the seat position for my friend (could not move the seat back far enough and he slightly looked like a kid riding a tricycle that he had outgrown). He also said that the seat hurt his manly parts. We are going to look for a different seat that will be compatible with this bike for him.I did purchase the Wahoo Cadence sensor and strapped it to the crank of one of the pedals. This will sync with my Apple Watch, iPhone and will import data in to my Health app. Wahoo does have other sensors available other than cadence. I can also keep either my phone or my iPad on the display and they both feel pretty secure.
I've had a bike fit, after I had massive knee problems. It got way better! But I was still uncomfortable on very long rides. Then I found a women who was specialized on female ergonomics , she helped a lot (saddle height and angle). And finally thanks to Phil Burt!!! My bike came with a 172,5mm. After seeing him in a Katie Kookaburra vlog I changed them to 165mm. Since then, I haven't had knee problems. Even after climbing Sa Calobra (very slowly). Thank you soooo much 🙏
My bike fitter suggested moving to 165’s too and I felt the difference! I was losing power coming over the top of the pedal stroke and I could see that on the sensor feedback.
This is a common issue. Most off the rack bicycles come standard with crank arms that are far too long. The industry has been looking through that telescope backwards for for decades.
The title of the video is dumb obviously bicycle geometry and fit is important for someone who spends a lot of time on their bike.
What is your inseam?
Had a bikefit here in Denmark with the goal to buy a new bike. Didn't feel comfortable about the result afterwards. Went to a second bikefit, this time in the UK with James from bicycle in Richmond. Great result and so much more ease of mind now, and have ordered the bike part. Let me just say that there was a massive difference in frame size and stem length. So glad I got a second opinion, even if it cost a bit more.
Therein lies the rub. Bike fitting is similar to chiropracty in that it is incredibly difficult to separate the quacks who are trying to make a living in medicine without the hassle and expense of medical school from the geniuses who might actually make your life better. It's tough to make a living in the bike industry and many see certifications in bike fitting as their success vector. Mix in a general confusion between precision and accuracy and you have an industry that makes it difficult to separate the flowers from the toxic weeds.
It was noted in the video that people might want to consider a bike fitting before buying an expensive bike to ensure that it is being sized and setup correctly. I would propose that if you are just getting into the sport, you should probably scale back your purchase until you have become more involved with the sport. Bike shop fittings might not be the best investment you could make as they are sometimes operated primarily as additional profit centers for the business. A good shop can get you most or all the way to a correct fit without spending a lot or even any money, at which point you can ride the bike for a season, tweak it, and get a better feel for how much you like the sport, which discipline appeals to you the most, and what level of bike you really need. Experience is truly the best teacher.
However, if you drive a German car that is more expensive than your basic Volkswagen, or any Tesla, by all means get the most expensive bike fit you can find. Then post about it on social media with your bike mounted on your car in the background.
As a Retul certified bike fitter with a medical background, though limited, I have fit hundreds of people at this point. I am a firm believer that unless you’re comfortable on your bike you won’t enjoy the ride. Whether your trying to podium, trying to do your first charity century, or just trying to have a nice ride, you won’t succeed if you’re thinking about why your bumm hurts. The idea of a bike fit is to get you thinking about the ride, not what you’re riding. Does everyone need a fit? No. Just those who don’t feel good while on the ride. Best GCN video in a while!
Super video again! Love this no nonsense approach both of you, especially appreciative of Phil's obvious expertise and professionalism! Coming from a multi disciplinary clinic where I was a registered massage therapist amongst multiple physiotherapists and chiropractors, I ALWAYS did a thorough assessment so asn ot to waste the client's time/money. I was adamant that IF it was mine to fix, the client should feel a significant shift by the first or second session! Love the triaging of qualifications to determine the appropriateness of a bike fit! Love the no BS, direct approach! Thanks Phil, Si and gcn!
Hi Si,yes I enjoyed it. Phil seems to talk sense.
After your last video with Phil I took his advice and set the bikes up on the turbo with camera on a tripod to one side. Recumbent no problem the knee/ankle angles were about right just as I had adjusted by "what felt right". The upright was too low (it felt a bit low) and it is so much better about 40 mm up from what it was.
That was the bike fit I could afford. Thanks Phil, great advice.
Got a bike fit after having total hip replacement to give me optimal power from a compromised range of motion. Totally worth the money and time. And we can never have enough of Phil Burt.
A big issue with bike fitting for me are the quick fixes and not working on the athlete. It's hard, takes longer but it's the way to go. Focusing on the symptoms should be the last resort, for example when a rider has a big problem and a deadline coming (an event) but for most cases this should be a process of constant and steady work to achieve a good biomechanical compromise for the athlete. E.g. if a rider comes with knee pain and has weak glutes or hamstrings, you don't start changing cleats or height and call it a day, you have to address the underlining issue. I do think most bike fitting related issues are caused by not working on strengthening neglected muscle groups and also trying to adopt positions without the required flexibility and stability to do so
Totally agree with Phil. I’ve met him on a few occasions & our path cross via our clients. The experience of time served over shadows lots of the high tech equipment out there. We both use very expensive equipment in our sessions but this only validates for the client what we are advising. There is no blueprint to “the perfect fit” however we can narrow down options. Well done Si for this video.
I had a bike fit when I bought my bike but over time, I found it wasn't perfect but more of a starting point. As I ride I find I have been making small adjustments over time and it is slowly improving my comfort which translates into longer and faster.
Having back and hip issues, I decided to have a fitting done. Fitter was thorough and checked flexibility and range of motion. He told me everything my chiropractor did and more than my physical therapist.
I have had 3 fits, and all helped me be more comfortable and productive on the bike.
Great video and super important! I'm 49 and been cycling for 37 years in all disciplines. 10 years ago after feeling back pain solved by a bikefit, I've been doing a bikefit every 2 years, plus yoga (Or core, or mobility) and swimming. My position on the road bike even got more aggressive in the last couple of years! Would love more yoga/ mobility videos in the GCN training channel if possible
It's amazing how a tiny difference in saddle height can be detected. I always cycle commuted and sometimes went shopping in my lunch break. In the days of toe-clips and straps I didn't bother changing my shoes and rode wearing my Toetectors (they were provided free and protected my feet in case I dropped a pencil on them. They also meant I didn't have to leave a pair of my own shoes at work). The soles were perhaps 2/3mm thicker than my cycling shoes but my saddle still felt too low on the short trip.
My main problem is shoulder/neck pain after a bad accident damaged my spine. I never had problems before, even on very long rides up to 20 hours, so I accept it but now wonder if a bike fit might help. I've also abandoned drop bars.
Saddles are difficult - especially for women. We used Brooks leather B17 for years and cycle commuting is the ideal way to break them in.
This video was a lot more interesting than I thought - thanks.
Had a bike fit - 4-hour process which focused on me to start with and then my interactions with the bike. Fabulous and certainly improved my confidence about doing some epic rides. What the older and injured need is probably not a million miles away from what the rest of us need before we reach that state.
I’m fairly new to cycling but fell in love with it. After doing my first metric century, I had a Guru bike fit to increase my comfort over riding longer distances and it made things worse. The fitter set my bars too low which caused a lot of neck pain; the pain in my knees got worse. Lucky one if the guys at my LBS was able to get me somewhat comfortable. I feel like I could be more comfortable on the bike but I’m hesitant to get another fit. I think Phil made a good point about researching a bike fitter, something I will definitely do
I always interview my fitter. Many are focused on absolute speed and the sacrifice needed to achieve that. Be certain that your fitter know you are focused on distance and that they have experience fitting for that purpose. I do often tweak the fitters job by spending time in my trainer and focusing on how the fit feels.
Some fitters know every formula known to man, and nothing about a rider's wishes, and sensitivities. If you aren't comfortable, you're not going to be doing the distance. Humans aren't built to rigid inflexible formulas.
I have had a Retul fit and I can state that it changed my position on the bike. To what it feels i can ride easier and longer with a shorter reach and a different saddle.
Overall i was glad that I got it for my b day
Yes. It was covered by my medical plan so 4 hours cost me like 80 bucks. Interior knee pain gone, seat height in a much better spot. A much better understanding of my weaknesses and things I should work on. I didn't even know cleat wedges were a thing so I kept turning my cleats in all directions instead of actually fixing the issue. Went from so much pain I didn't want to ride to 4 hour rides with no pain at all besides being out of shape. I have had two knee surgeries and I couldn't be happier with the results. Still new to the sport so I feel like it cut out years of trial and error. I also needed someone to tell me I was an idiot for slamming my stem at my age.
Good Vid. Well done GCN and Phil. It is such a cowboy industry... A GCN investigates vid.... Go and get a secret bike fit, then go to another bike fitter the next day. I bet you they will change something. We do offer a bike fit service, kind of reluctantly. For most people they would get a similar outcome from a phone app. Generally more work on becoming a macro absorber with strength & conditioning training would be more useful to everyone than a £200 bike fit. For riders in pain and diagnosed conditions from a physio we call in sports therapists or podiatrists to help guide the fit process.
I learned to do bike fitting myself to do my own fitting but the process took me over a year of making small adjustments, trying out different saddles until I nailed it. I even fell into this scary realization that your pedaling technique will affect your bike fit and worse, it can also happen the other way around! What I'm saying is even if you get fitted by a professional, there's a good chance the optimal bike fit for you will be different next year and so on and so forth. You may need 're-fitting' periodically and then adapt to it to get the best results.
"A good chance"? why? People who can physically alight on a bike dont change that much physiologically within a year
@@pretzelhunt If your strength has changed, changes in preferred cadence, changes in flexibility / riding posture, changes in core strength, or even body weight for example will affect the pressure on your arms and saddle. What used to be perfectly comfortable fit will start becoming less comfortable. I'm only one of the few local riders who can do centuries comfortably in the mountains only making few very brief stops to pee and come home still fresh, no soreness in the legs, butt, and arms. I do my own bike fitting. If you think it's not worth getting professionally fitted twice a year for changes, then learn how to do it yourself. Basically, it's just trial and error, feel, and keeping an open mind.
@@marksIItimewarps Good comments.
I got a bike fit due to pain above the knees and cramping issues. Like Phil the bike fitter was also a physio which really helped. Turns out one of my legs is just 4mm longer and that was having an impact. After shimming the cleats I had a huge improvement in comfort. I also know now that I'm a micro adjuster.
When I had my first road bike I did not do a bike fit, just went with the classic rules of thumb to set it up. I did got some hip and lower back discomfort on longer rides, also some numb feet.
When I upgraded that to my 2nd and current road bike I did went through a bike fit, because I bought a frame and every single component separately so I wanted the bike fit to help me choose things like stem length and such. On that 2nd bike the lower back and hip pain were gone and the bike fitter also did my cleats and the feet numbness is also gone. I do believe it was worth it.
My 1st bike fit was a game changer. I have used many of the same measurements over the years. Recently had a custom DEAN Torreys build with a custom bike fit. Slight minor differences from my last fit. I would recommend you get at least 1 fit. you can move your numbers to other future bikes. Many pains will be fixed through a fit.
The best bike fit is when you do your own adjustments through time and according to the comfort those changes make you feel, but you need experience. All bodies are different, hence respond different to bike fits, you may feel ok right after the bike fit, but start to feel weird and uncomfortable through the days and miles on the saddle.
Exactly...
agree, now i ride slammed, gym work is crucial
I've been recommended to get into cycling to improve my fitness, however it never occurred to me that the bike itself could be unfit. This is eye opening stuff!
There's a reason different frame sizes exist. But even they definitely can't cover everyone perfectly - or even come close to doing so. While it can be added expense you may not want to pay, don't be afraid to change out parts like a stem, handlebar or pedals, even on a new bike. If you don't feel comfortable and safe on your bike, something is probably wrong.
If you don't know your preferences and needs yet, seeking professionals in the space can definitely help.
I found that when I started cycling more, I didn't notice many differences between bikes. But now (years later) I know much better what I like and what doesn't work.
It helped me a great deal. The shop did a good job eye balling the sizes, but i needed a shorter stem, 25mm shorter. Made a big change.
I've had Retul fits done on all 3 of my bikes and have been very happy, comfortable, and have peace of mind knowing that I'm certainly not the fastest rider but at least I'm putting down the optimal amount of power in a position that is suited for my both my physiology and capability.
I've had a bike fit. Been cycling for years. I'm 65 and just started doing triathlons, love them, I also want to protect my body. Had sore knees for years, I now pay attention to strength and conditioning. I did get a bike fit, cleat adjustment, and the fitter did coach me into achieving a more aero position. I have more confidence in my position, I enjoy cycling more, I feel its safer for knee. Actually the niggles have disappeared. So, ya, totally worth getting a bike fit. Peace of mind!!
I'm sorry to inform you that what is "most aero" is almost inevitably not the best for your body long-term. This point isn't that much different to ballerinas and toes. Sure you look prettier, but you're going to pay for it.
The price of speed ….
My local bike shop won’t sell a bike without a bike fit. (Took me 4 days to buy a bike)
1. Selected components.
2. Shops took 2 days to put the pieces together and the 2nd day I tried the bike on a trainer. I changed out the saddle and the frame-said it was too big a bike for me.
3. Altered bike was then put on a trainer-I was expected to ride 30 minuets.-changed pedals
4. Came back shop said I should ride outside 30 minutes.
The Jason’s said we don’t sell a bike until the potential customer is comfortable and the shop is certain the bike is rideable. Jason 2 said comfy bikes get ridden. A custom fit gives customers the best long term use/satisfaction. I say serious money, serious riding-then need a bike fit
I'm going for a proper bike fit because I'm 6'7" and right on the cusp of needing a custom frame to properly fit me. I know I'm on the boundary of what the bike industry has off the shelf, so I want "the numbers" to either very much narrow down my searches (pretty thorough already) or be educated enough for a custom frame.
I've had two bike fits with highly reputable fitters that used the same Retul system that Phil used. Both put my saddle higher to the point where it was so uncomfortable I found myself not wanting to go riding. My knee angle in both was at the lower end of 'acceptable range'. After both I tried not to tinker but after a few weeks I dropped my saddle back down and was comfortable and enjoyed cycling again. I am a standard height, standard weight male with average proportions and good flexibility so no idea why I found the lowest 'acceptable' saddle height so uncomfortable.
I've spent 3-4 times in bike fit (Retul) with different fitters. It is a clinical process rather than one time event. You try something and succeed but other times fail. Then re-modify. Repeat. Now I learned that sometimes I should trust myself...
I am 47 now and have had 3 x fits now .. As I am getting older Speed become less important and comfort is taking over.. When I was young I was willing to accept more discomfort for speed .. today I dont care if I take an extra cuple minutes.. If I feel good on the bike the odds are I am riding more ..And more time on the bike might make up for the lack of speed .
Wonderful interview. Makes me feel better as I approach group 5.
the most honest advice I ever heard! thx!! - from S.Korea. oh I forgot big fan of eMTB channel ;)
Great video! I had a proper fitting (I think it took four hours) when I bought a pricey new bike. One benefit of the fitting is that you learn a lot about proper setup. The other thing is that doing it yourself only gets you so far. I had wedges put under my cleats to straighten out some bad pedal motion due to out-of-alignment joints due to aging and osteoarthritis. I feel that this added about five watts to my power. I was also fitted with a saddle that I absolutely love that wasn’t even too expensive.
The shop where I buy my bikes does a fitting before you get a bike. If you purchase from them, they deduct the cost from the purchase.
I have had several fits over the years and the best fit I’ve gotten I was surprised by the changes he made in my hand position. A few lever placement changes and I felt completely different on the bike.
So there are changes that can be made that might seem minimal that can make marked improvement in your comfort and efficiency. But they are changes that the average person might not think to make on their own.
One other thing. Your fitter should allow you to come back after riding a few times to dial in that fit based on your feedback.
Could you do a „bike fit special“ about asymmetries and how to deal with them?
For example, my garmin pedals report a (consistent) 10mm pedal platform offset difference (i can also see and feel it with flats), no idea what to make of it…
(My legs are same length, but that would be another topic for that show…)
Prior to buying a really expensive bike (Ti & Dura Ace), I got measured in 2011. The shop had a "frame" with elements that could be adjusted under me. The fitter had me pedal at constant perceived effort. There was a point when he asked me about "same effort" and it was, and he said that was 30 Watts better. I went home & moved the seat on my old bike forward A LOT and felt better. My 1987 FitKit drill had used swiveling pedals with indicator wands. That got my cleats dialed in (so now I know to set those up to have my heels not quite brush the ends of the BB spindle and I'll be fine with 0 degrees float). About the only thing I'm uncertain about now is my 172.5 crank length -- I think it's OK.
Great info Phil; thanks!
I had a bike fit after sending my wife in for one. She saw immediate improvement and enjoys cycling so much more. I on the other hand I thought I had my positioning spot on. Boy was I wrong. I started having knee pain that I could not get to go away so when I got a new gravel bike I headed to the bike fitter and told him that I would probably need a 20mm offset post because that is what I have always run. After hooking me up to the machine and analyzing my position he had to move my seat forward and up. Totally different than what I had on my other 2 bikes. Took the bike for a long ride and loved it. Took the other bikes in and had them fit as well. No more knee pain and better performance in the local group rides! I would recommend a bike fit especially if you are going to spend a fortune on a new bike. Since then I bought new Canyon and the day after it arrived I took it in for a fit. Makes a great bike even better.
i did have a bikefit with the specialized fitting software thing but unlike some experienced fitter it did not take into account a lot of things. so the fit was a waste of money for me and it took me around 1 year of trial and error to get to a point where i can cycle 10k kilometers a year painfree and full of power. bodyawareness is key if you ask me, no other person can tell you how you feel on the bike.
I got a free bike with my last bike purchase, they set the bike up as per my old bike, it felt good, then they set it up according to the fit details and it made such a difference, when they moved it back to my old setup as a test it just wasn’t right.
The fit also removed some slight knee pain and issues with my cleats, I’m no pro BUT what’s important I’m so comfortable in the saddle now.
Totally understand the saddle issue I’ve got those saddles but I did finally get a a great bike fit !!
That’s an eminently sensible and balanced discussion of the topic. Good one.
I just got a recent bike fit (2nd time in total) because I'll buy a new bike, my first gravel bike. As I planning to using for bikepacking (so, lots of hours on the saddle) I know I need a completely different position from my road bike and I wanted to know the optimal stack & reach in order to prevent injuries/pain and to have a wider range of adjustment w/o discomfort
Has the bike fit helped? 👀
You hit it when you mentioned a fit to determine what size bike to buy. Especially these last couple years when bikes were hard to find and you were ordering sight unseen. Think Canyon. Or in my case when I drove 500 miles to pickup a Giant gravel bike. Pretty important to truly know your size.
+ the fact that not all brands sizing is measured using Standard Datums !!
Appreciate Phil's honesty and modesty.
Good content
This makes want to try out a bike fit once I'm ready for regular 50 miles rides. I bought the book for now and will self adjust.
Are you finding comfort is holding you back from those 50 mile rides? 👀
It would be really interesting to see a bike fit done for someone who has never been a racer who rides for recreation. Like Cillian and/or the beginner cyclists like Harriet or Bruno
That would be a good video! Have the rookie ride, then get fitted, then a week later or so, have them ride again and see if there are improvements.
I have had two bike-fits. The first was with a PT, the second with a bike shop who was an old racer. In the PT, bike fitting was just part of the practice; they had no stems or saddles. He commented I was very aggressive in my position (I was 60). He got the Saddle sorted and basic position on the bars. I still needed to rewrap the bars and move the levers a bit. The next was after I got another bike and wanted help matching the bikes. So I carried both bikes in, it was funny when he saw the bikes. Yes they were slammed. When I left the older bike went from a 120mm -7 degree stem to a 130mm -17 degree stem. He told me that any of the system fitters would have tried to sit me up right. Thank You 1986 Peugeot P-8. Hehe!
Good topic… where Phil says you don’t what you don’t know (comprehend or have the skills to make assessment) That’s why I’m getting a bike fit, to make adjustments: 1st the Golden saddle is yet to be found. 2nd overall comfort on bike. These two IMO will yield great speed and feats 🎉
So Comfort driven performances ;)
Best thing I ever did!! The education that comes with the fitting is truly the key!
I started cycling in 2019…bought my Canyon Endurace, had all kinds of pain, got a bike fit and I was cycling without any pains now. Bought my second bike, Canyon Aeroad and I’m trying to see if I can find my fit by riding and seeing what works and what doesn’t.
Great vid and info Phil.. id also add that when buying a new bike a good bike fitter will check its geometry and ensure you buy the correct size frame and discuss this you 👍👍🤩🏅🚴
Good point! Do you think you should get a fit before buying a new bike? 🔎
@@gcn Absolutely!
How do you know who is a good bike fitter? I have never heard anyone say they didn't get a good bike fit. This means one or more of the following is probably true: all our local bike fitters are good (enough); people have no way of knowing if they had a bike fit; bike fitting is really easy with some basic information.
I had one thrown in with a new bike purchase. I was blown away by the process done scientifically. Seeing actual gains in power by small adjustments in cleat position on shoes, stem height and reach but most of all saddle height. All dime one at a time. The saddle came down a fair bit and the power went up around 10%. Bottom line is you can’t argue with the software. Money well spent
You can see that he is truly an expert with all the nuance and pragmatical advice.
I've not had a bike fit..... But I'm an OT and married to a physio so have a good anatomical understand of normal movement. I always recommend to friends going to a bike fitter to look for someone who has a medical or normal movement/ MSK knowledge background over anyone who just happens to work or ride bikes. That level of understanding of not just correct position but the potential causes of movement / pain / comfort levels outside of the visible is so important to fully understanding what is happening for that individual and getting a correct bike fit that is holistic to your present and future needs.
After almost 50 years of riding a real bicycle (not the kids bike I had when I was little), I finally got a bike fit. I ticked several of Phil’s boxes (older rider, knee pain, comfort) and went to a local fitter with a solid reputation. She didn’t change much, moved my saddle down and back a few millimeters, but it made a HUGE difference! They are adjustments that were counter-intuitive to me, so I never would have figured it out. She also had me get some orthotic inserts for my bike shoes, never would have thought of that. I also got a free IDMatch computer fit at the Sea Otter Classic last year, which mostly confirmed the first fit. So for me, the bike fit was well worth it. I didn’t know what I didn’t know, and figured it was just part of the suffering.
As I've just recently found out, something as mundane as shoes can mess up a nice, free-flowing pedaling motion and eventually cause pain. I'm perfectly set up to ride on my good bike but when the weather's iffy and I still feel like getting a ride in, I ride my "beater" bike while wearing normal sneakers. Anyway, I got a new pair of shoes about two months ago and not long after I started riding around in them, I started feeling pain and discomfort in my left knee, both shins, and left ankle. I thought my body was breaking down and then for one day, the weather was nice enough to let me take out the good bike and get a proper ride in. I felt pretty good throughout the whole ride and came to the conclusion that the new shoes I was wearing had a thicker sole that was causing alignment issues with my stroke. Earlier this week, I took the beater out for a ride (wore my old, tattered, shredded husks of sneakers that I somehow hadn't tossed out), and didn't really have any pain either. I guess I'm gonna have to keep these old shoes around for a few more months!
I've hade a bikefit. Not cheap but worth every euro considering the amount of money I was willing to spend on my new bike. You cannot imagine how much the joy and ease of cycling increases once your bike fits like a glove. Do it.
I had a bike fit, and a bespoke road bike made to the specs, and I was amazed at how much difference it made! It made me feel like my bike was a part of me. Riding began to feel like it took less effort, and my discomfort after a long ride was greatly diminished. Everyone has different body proportions, and off the shelf bikes are made for kind of a one size fits all market. If you are putting in a lot of miles, and you can afford it, I highly recommend getting it done!
As a bit of a microadjuster I found a bike fit well worth it to stop obsessing about would this be better if I moved the saddle 2 more mm's...
This is very valuable, instructional and helpful.
That's what we like to hear! Have you adjusted your fit at all? 👀
His books are really excellent. Well recommend. Quite heavy on medical language but very informative as a result
such good content. i just got my first road bike in december 2022. i'm working my way up to doing longer rides. I've had bad knees since age 14. i'm pushing 40. my biggest concern is that i not injure my knees or anything else as i start riding longer, harder and more frequently (than my 3x/week 10 mile sprints on my mountain bike)
i was considering getting a bike fit, but i think i will wait and see how my body responds to being pushed more consistently on longer and more intense rides over time. Given that it is currently winter in nyc, my more intense rides are coming in the spring.
Just check your fit with myvelofit - it worked great for me. The free fit told me everything was in range and confirmed I had gotten there myself.
I would like to have one, even though over the years I found pretty optimal position to ride (or close to it). Still, would be fine to check how far off I am in my judgement.
Yea, I do get some light pains (like shoulders) over 3-4 hour rides. Sometimes my left hand gets numb (I say its the damn faulty heart). Or feet (after way too long grinding). Yes, nothing that would force me to get off the bike and crack the frame on some boulders!
Got a fitting one week ago. Why did I get it done? I'm now older (66), my knees are nearing replacement age, and I'm less lean. The changes in a seat and stem raise have made a big difference. Able to climb with less pain but with more power. It cost me $325 (including replacement parts).
I have prostate problems so looking at get bike fit for the first time, still doing my research in it though
I've bought a new bike in 2018 and was putting off hacksawing the steerer tube for years. I wanted to see a professional to tell me that my bike fit is sane. However, since I don't have any burning issues with my comfort, I've been delaying that bike fit. Now with over 20 000 km, many mountain passes, a few 10-14 day training camps, and a single 360 km ride under my belt I can say that my setup is probably *fine*. I've cut the steerer last year.
I broke my hip in a cycling accident and had issues during the recovery. After 9months working with the NHS physios and not improving I did some research and visited a physio at UCLAN who also came highly recommended. After three treatments she advised me to go back to the hospital and insist on another X-ray before going any further, the out come was that they found the Dynamic Hip Screw that was installed was loose and 6 weeks later I had it removed. After having it removed I went back to UCLAN to continue the physio where they recommended a bike fit/physio to get me set up on the bike again, now it's like i've never broken my hip. My advise, find a good physio first.
I think the big group of riders that likely don't need bike fit are those that have ridden pretty much all their life, since and early age, without professional support, and have learnt about the mechanics of the bikes they ride and the body they have. They're more likely to know intuitively what works for them. I can pick up a new bike, and without comparing or measuring anything, set it up within a couple of millimeters of my existing or previous bikes, just because of experience with the feel and position. I dont ride 24 hour Endurance, far from it, so maybe my positioning wouldn't be right for that, but I'm not doing that sort of riding so its not an issue. I probably could spot sucj an issue and fix it myself though. I think my point is, a pro bike fit might help new cyclists or those with specific problems, and obviously it'll help pro riders, particularly for aero gains, but the vast majority are going to be better served learning how to do it themselves as it'll allow constant adjustments by the person best able to recognise the need - you.
Great video Si. From a current bike fitter working with Trek bicycles. I fully agree with Phil’s opinions on bike fitting. The majority of clients that come to my studio are comfort, injury or age related issues. I feel that mostly a rough position is workable without a professional fit. However the benefits of having one given what you invest in one against the overall costs of bikes these days is very worthwhile.
Glad to find you, I am looking at a trek Emonda at moment, wondering does stem and handlebars swap to a one piece handlebar? Mainly as wondering about get a bike fit done and how to go for a one piece
@@mlee6050 I would definitely recommend a fit, I assume your looking at a new 2023 Emonda? If so. A handle bar and stem combination stem would greatly depend upon your flexibility as the handles have one reach length of 100mm.
@@fredrichards3998 I am at moment, might start with 2024 version though as got to save and build my own, they use Shimano and I prefer SRAM shifting, am shocked my build idea is £2700 ALR 5 with SRAM Rival but similar weight to a SLR 7, avoiding carbon where can
Great trousers man! I have the same
We have a shop, and my husband did my fitting. The numbers said to move my seat, and viola! my neck pain was gone.
I think Phil was upfront, honest, and nailed it. The casual cyclist is attuned to her/his body and can make the proper adjustments, thus dialing in the proper fit.
Sooo how do you determine if it's the fit instead of the saddle? Also what is "comfort feel like?" I feel pressure on my sit bones, but it is just sore after the ride.
I’ve never had a bike fit. Got back into more serious cycling just before lock down. I’ve no serious aches or pains, but would just like to check my needs. To improve performance if that is possible and to make sure I limit longer term injury from not being set up properly. I’m 66 but fortunately still flexible and good weight for height. Plus I’m fascinated by the process. And let’s face it at my age, I know my physical strength will be on the decline, so anything that makes me more efficient, makes sense to me.
Exactly
I've just bought Phil's book and it has been invaluable and I now think I need a bike fit .
Now here's the question a local bike fitter who I no nothing about or invest in Mr Phil!!
Hmmm I would say everyone would benefit from an experienced bike fitter. I start cycling again in early 40s I bought 3 bikes winter/summer/TT over 1st 3-5yrs. Rode with local bike club, never had any pain or any issues really. Raced and did sportives .... Then I decided to have a bikefit .... I had bought incorrect sized bikes even though the bike shops said they were correct ... I had 60. 54 Andrew 53 frames .... Now I ride small frame like 52-51. It does help me control bike better and put more power out 😁. So yes get a good bike fit not a shop bike fit 😁
I bought a bike without a bike fit but rather digested all online advices on self fitting(incl GCN) and it works for me. However I'll still get one if I find any discomfort that affects my performance and love for the sport as I believe there's virtue in bike fitting science.
I think that a bike fitter who has a medical background is a great idea…I have issues with numb hand & left foot…how much is is bike?…how much would be improved by specific exercises?…bike fit (for comfort) in a wider context…that’s worth a lot of money
As a powerlifter I’m flexible and strong, I don’t need a bike fit for now. I just follow the principles in bike fitting and I have no issue at all. Most importantly, get a bike that is your size, it saves a lot of effort.
gym work is crucial to manage pains
A few fitters have said Retul is a sales gimmick. I just recently had a fit after watching a ton of videos and trying to DIY my own fit. There's tremendous value in getting someone with loads of experience to put you in the correct position on a bike. You can have the right saddle, bars, and crank length but if they are in the wrong places they aren't beneficial. Once you start cycling for long distances you feel the need to get properly fitted.
I'm a Sports Massage Therapist and I've worked with Team USA athletes prepared for Tokyo Olympics.
I agree that bike fits aren't necessary but I highly recommend them. It means that I see my clients less often but they know I have their best interest in mind.
I road 10 centuries and countless gran fondos before I got a bike fit. I got a bike fit because I did a fundraiser (Cycle4education) from San Francisco Bay Area to Los Angeles. I knew that the big mileage for consecutive days might cause potential injury - Shoulders, back, knee, neck, etc . The bike fit (and post ride recovery treatments) saved me.
I had a bike fit, by a qualified and trusted fitter, and basically my set up was 98% there - not much additional info to learn other than confirming that I was basically optimal (for me). Not exactly a waste of money, but at the same time, not a huge ROI. I tend to agree with Si's position on bike fitting. The thing is, over the years you just learn how to fit your bike and adjust as your mobility/flexibility and fitness change (wax and wane).
Your interview was interesting. Up until now I always thought that bike fitters sounded like insurance salesman. A bit blaggy. But I see the need now, or whom should. ✌️
Do you and others do bike fitting on those of us who use flat pedals and not clipless? From this video I can see I may need a fitter who has physio backgound as I have had a knee replacement. I just want comfort - old bones!
Interested to hear from people who had pain on the outside of the knee and what they did to stop it, I’ve read that it is likely to be my cleat position so does anyone have a link to a tutorial for cleat positioning that actively tackles knee pain?
Got my first racer in the 1980s and I've never had a bike fit, nor any physical problems. But at 54, I'm starting to think about getting one. Partly out of curiosity (I think my bars are too wide, reach is too long, 172.5mm pedals could maybe be shorter), but also as it might be preventative
Got my first fit at 54. Wish I'd done it years ago.
Have you had a play at your fit yourself? You could always try this first and then invest in a fit later. 🔎
@@gcn True enough. But while experimenting with narrower bars isn't too expensive, buying a crankset is more of a stretch. At least at a bike fit I could get a sense of what shorter cranks might feel like, as well as the expertise of the fitter (assuming I've found a good one!)
@@DarenC You're 54- that means you've earned it and deserve it. Why wait!? (When we are young we have time and no money; when we are older we have money but less time!)
bit naughty...." aches if you're getting older...." cut to shot of Matt Stephens @ 5:43!
Haven’t had a bike fit. Previously rode 38k a day, 5 days a week. Now riding 40-50k sessions every other day. Paying more attention to fit now because discomfort that seems trivial at 19k (1/2 commute) is more significant past 30k. Not sure if this requires a pro bike fit, just much greater attention to detail and some analysis to isolate “pinch points”.
10 YEARS ... and took 1 retul bike fit ... and I got... fix on many levels... did I regret not doing it soon ... yes a bit... but I did use to think ... this is a thing for pro riders... BUT then I still have questions like is there a bike fit right? and a race bike fit? and why a bit fit wont work for every bike I have or Use? I get there are geometry differences and the fit is a process not a result... then if is not the same numbers of fit are some measurements a start point for this 'universal' fit we 'need' to know