Tears of the Kingdom is the only Zelda game that doesn’t have its own identity mainly because it has absolutely no idea what it wants to be. If you consider the time period that both Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom came out, Breath of the Wild is clearly better. Plain and simple. Breath of the Wild wasn’t perfect but it was completely necessary for the time it came out. Tears of the Kingdom wasn’t perfect but also wasn’t necessary as well. That’s the difference for me. It’s a sequel that took 7 years to make and yet it shares 90% of the same exact inventory as its predecessor while being on the exact same map as well. The main problem is that you are going around this world collecting the same exact stuff and doing the same exact stuff as you did 7 years ago in Breath of the Wild. That’s tedious. It’s a reasonable thing to bring up especially from an objective standpoint. The difference between Twilight Princess, Majora’s Mask, Skyward Sword, Wind Waker, and Ocarina of time is that all of these games even though they borrow the same formula to a certain degree all have their own identity that belongs to them. Tears of the Kingdom doesn’t feel like it has its own identity. It just feels like more of the same game as before.
The four games that you mentioned(except Skyward Sword) are also supposed to be in the same canon. Majora's Mask being a direct sequel, Twilight Princess have OOT Link in it and Wind Waker is just the future OOT Link left.
the problem stemmed from breath of the wild in the first place. if they had just made it blatantly downfall timeline like originally intended (which would still make sense, the zora are river zora. and fokka are seen in zelda 2, they're bird people. would've solved that issue), i feel like a lot of the stuff that lacks in substance would probably have more detail or thought out concepts. the game would have more identity because the "ambiguous not really connected to anything and/or merges all timelines" excuse really dampens my care for all three games in this series. i see a lot of my friends feel that way too. i still prefer botw for its more obvious downfall elements though. plus, the zonai plot was entirely doomed from the start.
Majora's Mask was a direct sequel to a previous game that ALSO used a lot of the same assets, but it was the WAY that it reused those assets that made it great. Not just doing the same shit we did in the last game, only this time the shrines and towers have different skins. The Zonai shrines even have the same fucking music as the Sheikah shrines (if you stand outside of a Zonai shrine, it is literally the exact same music that plays when you approach a Sheikah shrine in BotW; the only exceptions are the shrines on the Great Sky Island)
The editing is peak. Modern Zelda is just playing in a sandbox until you get bored. The classic games was an experience. We felt like we were there ourselves. They had atmosphere that enraptured us. The overworld and enemies limited us. That was to encourage us to find that next tool to tackle obstacles and certain enemies. The wild games lack this. We're just thrown in and are already more or less capable of conquering every obstacle or enemies. There is no structure or since of progression. Obtaining new tools and abilities feels satisfying because it opens up our sandbox bit by bit. Having everything on hand from the get go means the player doesn't ever feel like anything is challenging or surprising. We already see most of what the game has to show us right after the tutorial. Tutorials should really be the majority of any game. Portal is a excellent example of this. Most of the gane is learning all the different things you can do gmthen the end you put what you've learned to the test. Having it all spelled out right off the bat plays all cards far too soon. Echoes of Wisdom is a step in the right direction. It's still open but has structure and progression via the echoes. Replace them with items and we're cooking.
ngl maybe it’s me playing these games on emulators or something else but i felt the opposite. all of the games are good and i can see why people are disappointed with the direction botw and totk went, but if they just REALLY polish it, maybe we all could enjoy it
To be fair, the director always liked to brag about how you can go straight to the main objective if you so wish in botw. I believe that philosophy was one of the major guidelines in the world structure
@drkz4ck That's what I'm saying is my biggest problem the lack of structure and progression. The fact that you can do that is the biggest example of my biggest problem.
@@spartanq7781 oh absolutely, I just wanted to point out that the devs accomplished their intended vision in that regard. Even though I enjoyed the wild era, I'm a big fan of a well structured approach. Although, Skyward sword felt too restrictive imo
You nailed it. The new games have some fun to offer, but it's short lived. Once you get over the novelty of everything given to you at the start, there's not much left. Which sounds funny to say when the world is so huge, but it's because none of that huge world is given significance. What do you get for exploring that cave? A weapon that'll break in a few hits. That doesn't feel rewarding. That's not memorable. Everything you do feels like a waste of time because you just get more resources you'll use up. There's no big upgrade. No hookshot to find and open up more of the world to you, it's already all open. Once you've had your fill, just go fight ganon. The rest of the game might as well not be there.
It does feel like, even though there is progression, it's all built upon the concept of gradual QOL progression and the significant moments are lost for the sake of uninhibited exploration and openness.
This is why simplicity is an integral part of game design. Creativity can only emerge from limitation. When you give a lot of options and freedom to a player then there is no purpose left for any of those options. It's a circular paradox that creates infinite problems as you approach them more.
I’m currently playing through Ocarina of Time for the first time going in completely blind. For this game in particular, there is no nostalgia bias going on for its fans. It's simply peak.
I wish the run speed didnt irritate me when I attempted oot 3d. it was either slow run speed or having to hear HYAH HUP HA just to go slightly faster every time u did a roll
You forgot that Botw was a reaction to Skyward Sword. But I agree that by the time Totk came out the series has become too open, even exploring the same world.
I think improving on The WW and TP formulas would make a better open-world LoZ. They had the open exploration to varying degrees with the direction of a more linear experience and some challenge in terms of puzzle and enemy design. Having open overworld movement with larger, semi-linear dungeons with fun dungeon items that actually get used, and better rewards is my ideal LoZ game.
When a 200 view video on your recommended tab is actually good>>> I remember someone on here used a food analogy so I'll modify it: The switch Zelda games are like pizza, they might even be the best pizza I've ever had. But I come to this restaurant because I want burgers, and it seems like the burgers will never come back. Also every other restaurant sells pizza now and that was the only place you could get burgers in town.
That's a pretty bad analogy tho, they're still making alttp/oot style zelda games. They just decided to branch out because people were getting tired of the linear zelda formula after skyward sword.
@@theguywhodoesthings9608 I would say it's a pretty apt analogy since they are not making alttp/oot games anymore. If you're going to bring up Echoes it's the switch games grafted on to 2d Zelda. Taking the analogy further, when asked to return to making burgers since they were the only ones in town that did, Nintendo stuffed some pizza in between two buns and called it a day. Mistakenly thinking the surface ingredients is what makes a burger.
It is Majora's Mask. Still my favorite game of all time. So much caught up in its themes, dungeon design, music, and the way it lets you figure out how everything fits together in its 3 day time system.
This video was so good! So glad this showed up in my recommended. I think a big thing missing from botw and totk is any real reason to use the systems creatively. You *can* use them creatively, but you are never given any incentive to do so. The best parts of botw that I wish you had touched on were eventide island and the dlc trials of the sword. In both areas you are stripped of your items and given limited resources to solve problems, this pressured players into being creative with the game systems and I wish the designers could've captured that gameplay more throughout the games. It was the only time I felt like I was being rewarded for my creativity!
The contrast between open exploration and structured dungeons is exactly what zelda needs, it's why ss was so polarizing. The "open" world was basically a dungeon so when you get to the actual dungeons you are already tired.
Very well put together video my friend. I can only imagine how much time it took you to put this together but I'll be here for the next one. Also, I am so glad I see Twilight Princess getting the love it's always deserved these days
@@darklordyianni4463 I always liked the underwater exploration, it's funny how only the most "open" 3d games don't have it (no going to hyrule under the ocean in WW doesn't count)
I genuinely hope that they just refine the direction they’ve been going without backpedaling into what it used to be. Also what about my video makes you think I want a classic Zelda instead? I’m curious because I’ve gotten a couple comments like this even though I don’t say the game is bad…
This video was a pleasant surprise. You really made some good points. Besides that, nice editing, good jokes, entertaining writing and style and of course good structure :)
I love how you edited yourself in different spots throughout the entire video, it was refreshing to watch, good video, definitely have similar feelings in regards to that curated artpiece vs the make it yourself deal, it's like going from a 5 star restaurant to being sent to it's kitchen, sure you might have all the same ingredients that they use, but unless you know how to cook as well as the people who've been trained to make that dish, that curated experience, it's not gonna be as good.
I'm glad someone else shares the "twilight princess is ocarina of time again but with wolves" lol You can see the heavy inspiration throughout i love it Imo zelda games are best when you can see how fun they'd be randomized - shaking up the order in which you gain new ways to explore
There are definitely similarities but Twilight Princess has its own identity with its own story, vibe, atmosphere, superior dungeons, better items, better combat, the best version of Link and the greatest companion. Twilight Princess perfected the art of 3D Zelda while Ocarina of Time set the standard.
@@ShadowWizard224 The biggest criticism about Twilight Princess was "It's basically OoT with updated graphics and controls." Yeah... That's what makes it great. OoT was amazing, but it was restricted by hardware limitations. Twilight Princess perfected almost everything that OoT couldn't bring to fulfillment. Each Zelda game has had a strong deviation from the standard format that makes every one of them unique in some way, but BotW strayed way too far from the base structure that unites every game in the series. I genuinely hope that this isn't going to be the future of the series.
I always get a little triggered when even videos critical of TOTK still caveat things by saying it's a 'masterpiece', or 'objectively fantastic' in this case. I think this is what people feel obliged to say to avoid getting too heavily criticised by people on the internet. The flaws in the game are so huge and so obvious I don't think it's anything close to objectively fantastic. I think it's a straight up bad game in many different ways. There are some great elements but there are also a lot of abysmal elements. Unpopular opinion but I'll die on that hill. I'm sure the video will go over many of my reasons! Will leave another comment after I finish watching.
Yeah, TotK is absolutely not a masterpiece, not even close. Good? Ehh...maybe. But not a masterpiece. It has elements that are fantastic to be sure, but as a whole it just doesn't work too well.
02:32 That should have ended the video. "Exploration & Discovery" are the corner stones. The new games have those 2 amplified, plus puzzle solving & arguably the best combat in the series. Everything else is either presentation preferences or trivial elements that some fans attached to.
My biggest problem was the ending, they have this long, arduous cutscene that acts as a farewell to Mineru, a character we saw in 3 cutscenes and was the last sage we got in the present. My theory is that she was meant to be a companion character at some point, being a voice that speaks to you through the Purah Pad while having amnesia or something so the reveal feels more natural. Chances are, it was scrapped for some reason or another, so her soul was just dormant in the Purah Pad until it was convenient to the plot. Zelda has always had legendary stories, BoTW left me wanting but did it's own thing, ToTK just feels half-baked and like it doesn't even do BoTW's story justice.
@@LotsofChickenEh, I still think it was boring. Maybe it’s because the ending has a deus ex machina, or maybe the story just had abysmal writing. It’s just bland and makes me feel nothing.
@@LotsofChicken I'd say the *back*story was pretty good, but the actual story you're playing through, that you can actually affect, is pretty basic and crap Mario level "oh noes a problem - oh you fixed it, yay!" style story interspersed with what I describe as embedded RUclips videos showcasing an adventure I'd rather be playing, where the world is actually changing and things are actually happening. That was my experience with TotK, and honestly BotW too; a dull open world sandbox where I got to see glimpses of the game I *wanted* to play, given to me in random order as I found them unless I was careful.
Can you imagine? I feel like some of the souslike stuff could really help make the game feel more polished. I mean to be honest though those older games are genuinely pretty brutal.
God no, every souls like sux...I ain't grinding the same enemies for hundreds of hours, only to die from a blind side attack, losing all my souls, forcing me to start over again
5 дней назад+1
you convinced me. if the world of wind waker is open, i DON'T want an open world zelda
lol, it was kinda monotonous going around in your boat when I went back and played it. Had to keep reminding myself that this was 3 years before even Oblivion
I had a blast playing TOTK, but my main gripe upon retrospect is that by zelda standards it feels unfinished. The sky islands were used as the main advertising of the game, yet they are a collection of a the same small islands with the same small puzzles on them. the depths is a vast open world to explore that has only a few rewards of substance other than cosmetics. imagine a TOTK with an array of different temples, ruins, structures, villages and people to explore all in the sky while in the depths, also new temples, ruins etc. Each having story or side quest significance with long puzzle box style dungeons that actually have history and story significance instead of the shrines. The shrines basically make both BOTW and TOTK un-replayable for me because every time want to start a new save a get a wave of dread remembering that i have to do 50-60 of those annoying bite sized puzzle shrines in order to feel a shred of growth for Link. I also hate the concept of the Zonai that straight up replaces everything having to do with the Sheika with little explanation. additonally they have no sense of urgency in the plot. it feels like Link could just ignore Gannon for his entire life and nothing would actually happen. Items in old games served as world keys, but in the Wild era games having all tools in the beginning take away some of the "metroidvania" out of Zelda. Getting new tools not only expands link's arsenal, but also exploration ability. Totk does do a good job of showing the player all kinds of different ways to use their tools, but I still feel little sense of progress comparatively.
I totally agree on the Gannon urgency thing, you used to actually see what he was doing to the world around you as he rose to power, in the most recent games he’s just kinda… in the background and peoples lives aren’t changed. I also would love to see the game you imagined, the world building we used to see in these games is really only present in a few places compared to everywhere like it used to be.
best criticism of the new games i’ve seen so far, the sky islands are my biggest gripe with the game as it feels half-implemented. it’s an ambitious game so definitely lacks the polish of older games
Honestly fully agree with this, as much as I enjoyed botw/totk I missed the more structural aspects like with TP - which also tbh with the massive openness of the world and next to know structure also tbh affected the story portion. Leaving so much of the story as like just bits of random open world side quest to seek out instead of letting it unfold during your journey around. I haven't played a lot of them but I think TP is close to being my favourite- the only thing hindering my enjoyment coming from the darn escort mission section of the game I'm so bad at it was doing a replay and really thought I'd be able to get through it this time but I'm once again stuck on it.
As someone who liked the botw shrines but started getting tired of the totk shrines, I still never understood why people complained that they were "short" and "samey," I just figured "Yeah, that's the point. They're little tests by the sheikah/zonai to prepare Link for battle. I never connected to just how much I love the worldbuilding the dungeons in other games do. And I didn't even think about the overworld/underworld flow, because I just already expected the flow to be very different.
Windwaker has 6 dungeons if you count the forbidden fortress, dragon roost, the forbidden woods, tower of the gods, wind temple and earth temple. 7 if you for some reason count ganons tower on the surface world.
Subscribing for the green screen edits and the brain questioning (I do that too). I lost track of the general discussion point I wanted to bring up, it probably was something along the lines of the series used to promote balance but now is marketing itself to be all exploration all the time withoutn really doing a good job with dungeoneering. But I wanted to mention WW had 7 dungeons (and 2 were cut from time restraints). There's were 2 pearls, two opposing towers, 2 sages, and one Forsaken Fortress split between 2 halves of the story.
it's nice to hear the frustration with modern zelda expressed through a less antagonistic lens I love a little totk hating but it's kinda exausting how the two modes with switch zelda is vitriol or blind praise
Ya i get frustrated by it too, I want to be critical while recognizing that i enjoyed playing the game, and think that it is good in many ways. Nuanced opinions are less interesting from an entertainment standpoint though so we often see less of them.
Idk to me the puzzles in the old games had their appeal BECAUSE there was only one way to solve them. I'd end up seeing areas i couldn't get to yet or seeing cousins further in their playthroughs and feel like I unraveled something hand knit to be cool once I went along the same path.
The 15:50 mark, ish. Not sure if you address it further into the video but wanted to get my thought down now... Not only does giving the player every item they will need up front risk overwhelming them, but it also means that in the future there is very little new comlplexity to be had... If you already have all the items and are taught all the ways to use them such as in the plateau of BOTW, Then you already know the way to do almost everything going forward.. There might be some puzzles that require you to use them in an unusual way, but, for the most part, you know the answers... Meanwhile in the older zelda games, the way you get items one by one means a slow ramp up in complexity that the player can acclimate to as they go, and by the end has an overall greater depth of complexity because of it.
The thing that kills BOTW/TOTK combat is how samey all the weapons feel. The bouncy hammer, Master Sword, a stick, and a wand all have the same exact animations and timing. Sure they do something different when you hit an enemy, but like *gestures back at fromsoft* A scimitar, short sword, dagger, etc. will have their own unique animations and timings as well as the unique properties. The big thing that killed me was that poleaxes are my favorite weapons in media and seeing link wield it the same as a mop, javelin, long stick, or pike was so disappointing. Link is sitting there stabbing with a glaive/halberd and my soul is screaming about how those are edged weapons and should be sliced with.
I just realized that the main reason I enjoyed Tears of the Kingdom so much is because at that time I wasn't working, so I was free to binge the game like it was my full time job until the game was done. I wasn't feeling fatigued by it because putting in that many hours every day meant that I was guaranteed at least a few incredible moments every day, even if the experiences wasn't as curated as the earlier games. When I finally defeated Ganondorf and reunited with Zelda, I felt like I had been on an incredible, once-in-a-lifetime journey. If I could only put in a few hours a week like I'm currently doing with Echoes of Wisdom, I don't think I'd enjoy it as much. "Wow, this week I helped a guy put up a sign, found a Korok seed, and did a lot of walking and climbing. I think I'm only five months away from beating the game."
There are still moments I remember from playing the first time, and the game is really stunning! I just feel that a combination of curation and those experiences you mentioned could make the game even better!
I agree with you! Think of what they could have done wit an open wold, like Breath Of The Wild, and made it like a traditional Zelda game. Imagine trying to look for something in a vast world, that’s almost impossible to find. Like a special tool, to let you advance, and it’s hidden somewhere, or a giant dungeon, with parts of the dungeon in the sky, and connected to a deep underground! ? I like how huge the landscape was. I just wish they did more with it.
it's not "intangible" actually, it's Aonuma's authority that's missing. OOT, MM, WW, TP, & SS are all a 5 part collage that all refer back to one another in dialogue, visuals, and many other poetic moments. My analysis is very much ongoing, but the first two parts are here: SaSf8MKGpbg and X4I8YPtB8DM
also the Miaymoto stuff only applies to Zelda 1, 2, & 3 and basically don't exist in Aonuma's directed titles apart from brand association (and i guess the chest jingle?) to call all of these things "Zelda games" is to broadly overgeneralize
I love the last line about leaving behind the artistic refinement. Personally, Aonuma and Fujibiyashi will never deliver that as they are both clearly mechanically minded individuals. Unless another artistic minded person like Koizumi leads Zelda, we’re stuck with this I fear. Did you play Pikmin 4? That game felt like a classic Nintendo game.
My favorite game is Wind Waker and I love the dungeons where you teamed up with the sages to solve puzzles. It was a way better Princess Ruto dungeon. For me, nothing is better than the music ramping up when you sail the ocean for the first time. I do agree that having the dungeon aspect of Twilight Princess would have made it better, but WW inches out ahead because of the ship combat when you are fighting in a typhoon
WW was one of the games i went back and played for the video and that stuff did hit, i guess it just comes down to the fact that the first dungeon legit lasted like... 15 minutes and although the vibes are great on the open sea, searching for the Triforce pieces was a slog. Don't get me wrong, love the game though.
@LotsofChicken every game has its flaws, so it doesn't really bother me. With how much I've played these games, it better not. I even remembered the whole howl from the Wolf Link howl scene you put in the video. It takes a lot for me to love a game as much as I did these 2 games
I’ve been thinking about why people like us might struggle with the newer Zelda games on the Switch, and I’ve come up with two potential reasons. First, the difficulty. Compared to Ocarina of Time, the newer games feel easier. OoT demanded problem-solving and patience-some puzzles could leave you stuck for days. Even the final Ganon fights used to be intense challenges, but now they feel like a cakewalk. While this approach might appeal to broader audiences, for those of us who grew up on the series, it’s a noticeable shift. Second, we’re older now. Ocarina of Time was the first game I ever beat, and it was a defining moment of my childhood. Over the years, I’ve loved every Zelda installment, and while Breath of the Wild is phenomenal, it left me feeling like something was missing-like it just didn’t hit the same way. Maybe it’s nostalgia, or maybe it’s that games felt more magical when we were kids. I’m not sure. It’s something I’ve been trying to figure out for years because I still enjoy a lot of modern games. So many RPGs and Zelda like games I've enjoyed over the last 5 years, but not Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom. I honestly don't get it. I should enjoy them but I don't. Great video, brother. Your editing is insane!
Thank you! Ya it’s extra weird to me as well considering that I know I should enjoy it, considering that the game itself is genuinely fun and interesting.
This is exactly the problem I was hoping they were going to fix with TOTK. My hope was that they would leave the open world largely the same, but within the dungeons, do something to limit the player and create a more structured experience. My dream was that they would give the player a reduced inventory in the dungeons, so players would have to pick what they wanted to bring in with them. That way they could structure the dungeons in a more long form manner where you are actually worried to use the things you brought, cause you might not be able to find more of that specific thing in the dungeon. They could then place items in the dungeon MEANT for the dungeon and create more puzzles with actually one solution. I really wanted to feel like "delving" into a dungeon held more weight.
That's a great idea for fixing the issue, i always imagined a solution as more of a some weapons are permanent and really good ones are impermanent but less unique, and you get the permanent ones for completing optional dungeons.
I look at Tears/Breath as being the unintuitive extreme of Miyamoto’s ‘choose your difficulty through gameplay’ approach. Any amount of challenge requires self imposed limitations. It’s too free and breakable. For example, in Tears I like to only allow myself only 1 weapon fuse per weapon type (1-hand, 2-hand, spear). Fighting with un-fused weapons feels like hero mode. I also do what I call a “Blood Moon Flush” where, every blood moon, I throw all my inventory off a cliff. Nintendo didn’t finish designing the game, so we have to make it fulfilling ourselves lol jk
I feel like the difficulty in TOTK was where that really came through, because although you can have good weapons in BOTW it still doesn't really break the game in the same way, Lionel's are fun to fight, and many of the bosses were interesting. It' always weird, because i don't want games to alienate their audiences with difficulty, but i also don't want them to baby them either...
You're right. The need to bring some regular items back. Especially hookshot. How high some of the mountains and cliffs be, Climbing can be hell and even on full stamina and additional stamina food it still becomes too much on Climbing sometimes. Especially the depths. There was some light roots on some HIGH AS HELL cliffs.
Instead of having just one place where you get, for example, the Hookshot, why not having 5 spots where you can find it? And after getting that Hookshot, the remaining 4 spots will change and give you instead something that upgrades the Hookshot.
I can’t say I fully agree with all of your points, but I’m glad I watched this video. You’re incredibly well spoken, and it’s nice to hear a different perspective on a series that I love. And you’re absolutely right about the dungeons. They used to feel more… I don’t know. Important? They felt mysterious and had legitimately good lore behind them. They gave you a better understanding of Hyrule and the people in it. Like OoT’s Shadow Temple, and that frigid mansion in Twilight Princess. I personally prefer the open world format, I just have more fun exploring a giant sandbox from the beginning with zero restrictions. But the dungeons, the mystery and the lore have absolutely suffered. Like you said, I think they could take notes from Elden Ring’s legacy dungeons. Anyway, thank you for articulating your points in a respectful and insightful manner. You definitely earned a sub.
I can definitely agree that the open world format is better, it just feels like the game is missing some of the environmental storytelling that many of the previous games excelled at, specifically with dungeons. Not to say TOTK & BOTW don't have that, it just seems so distanced from your general gameplay. Anyway thank you for giving me a chance!
hey pal, that was a HECK of a good video, and you nail it when it comes to the structure part, but, (and this very important) there is a video named as "The Question No One Asks Shigeru Miyamoto" which was SURPRISINGLY SO EYE opening in regard to why zelda breath of the wild is the way it is, i will not tell you any thing beside that zelda developers consider every attempt they did with zelda before breath of the wild to be unsuccessful, BUT NOT IN THE WAY YOU THINK, SO please, i hope you watch that video, and don't forget to tell me your thoughts about what drived zelda developers to make zelda games like breath of the wild and tears of the king dom
BotW was supposed to be a modern interpretation of the very first Zelda game, but I don't think the game succeeded at that goal at all. The magic of Zelda 1 is that on one hand the game is very open and requires exploration, but it also has a lot of structure and a clear difficulty curve. You can't go to any place in the overworld at the beginning, instead it opens up bit by bit when you get new items from the dungeons. You technically can access dungeon 8 within minutes from booting up the game, but you have to know where it's hidden and you're not likely to survive for long unless you know what you're doing. Zelda 1 and 2 are really challenging games compared to pretty much anything that came after. This challenge to exploration, proper dungeons with a clear difficulty curve, and the overworld slowly opening up is completely missing in BotW and TotK. Exploration in these games doesn't feel fun, because the only meaningful things you'll find are uninteresting shrines and lackluster divine beasts/dungeons. There's no natural difficulty curve to the game and no challenge to the exploration. You don't need to plan your expeditions, because you can carry an insane amount of health items, can change your clothing at any time, and the game auto-saves constantly. I really think an actually modern Zelda game that understands the first game on a deep level could be a very exciting and interesting game, but BotW and TotK are definitely not it.
all zelda games have open world elements but wind waker was open world an as segmented as twilight princess world yea they technically where but totk was missing charm an botw an totk was kinda missing complexity to exploration i know both games had some complexity. i thought the sky isles would make travel harder but the zonia wing an other devices make travel even faster then botw what they could have done was put the paraglider in hyrule castle or have the runes or other runes in the dungions also puzzles the great sky island was always fun to me because you don't have all the tools that you likely will use each dungeon having 5 or 4 objectives an didn't have a final unlock for the dungeon after before going after the boss or more ways too think about how to do a puzzle. the most fun i had with the rewind shrine was not rewinding the raft instead shooting a arrow with frost chu jelly over the water an rewinding that
If I could write a note to Nintendo, the weapon breaking would be replaced with enemies knocking the weapon from you and stealing it. A sword or bow breaking after a few uses is ridiculous and made me enjoy botw and totk less.
Yeah he kinda right with that title after the 64 title each over world kinda got bigger and bigger over the course of series dang when I play wind waker for the first I was kinda overwhelm how big the over world was compared to ocerina of time
Something I can't forgive with BotW and TotK is that there is no musical instrument in either game. There are no songs to learn and play, and I feel like that is such a betrayal of the franchise. Music has always been a core aspect of LoZ because it acts as it's own magic system allowing you to teleport, conjure storms, travel through time, heal those whose souls are lost, etc. Link isn't Link without his ability to play music and change the world around him. Personally, this bothers me even more so than the lack of traditional dungeons/temples.
There is definitely something missing from Tears of the Kingdom, but I'm not sure I would use classic Zelda as a diagnosis for what that is. I think TotK has a lot of classic Zelda design, the Zonai devices work as open world items for unlocking exploration, they are tutorialized one at a time and your ability to accrue them is unlocked at specific points in the sky. So I wouldn't agree that, that element of items unlocking exploration is lacking from TotK. I would argue that there's too much of it, too much overlap, too many items to unlock, and their overlapping, non-essential roles mean you can more or less ignore them. The problem is this decision fatigue, as you rightly point out, is costly. The game is a lot more tedious to explore if you don't engage with them, especially if you already played BotW. Old Zelda games you would not be able to progress at all if you didn't understand something, but TotK lets you proceed anyway if you don't understand even its most fundamental systems. In BotW, you would have to figure out some way to mitigate weather or climb over stuff, but TotK has much lower barriers to any of its challenges. As you said, you can settle into a tried-and-true, but possibly far from optimal set of tools over the course of the whole game. While I agree classic Zelda prevented this, it does so by grinding the game to a complete halt. I'm not sure what the solution is here, but I don't think it will be found in classic Zelda, I think the team needs to look ahead. IMO, TotK would have benefitted from not reusing so much of BotW's world progression, like blood moons, towers, shrines, Korok seeds, etc... Its gameplay needed wholly new contextualization that would minimize its decision fatigue. I'd go so far to argue, as much as I enjoyed revisiting this world, BotW's Hyrule is not the best map for TotK's gameplay. The whole map should have been designed to better teach players how to engage with its mechanics, instead of throwing a ton of tutorial shrines all over the place in highly missable locations.
I think more along the lines of some Elden Ring esque forced semi structured areas the do a good job at explaining some tool or utilizing some concept through it would be a good solution. I don’t want it to go back to how it was, I’m more looking at the older games as a lens for what part of the experience feels to be missing from a broad experiential standpoint. I agree with the BOTW stuff, but I also understand re-using assets like they did from a development standpoint.
I love totk crafting to a certain extent, but the game overall is just too hard when any Bokoblin camp can one shot me, I know it’s a skill issue but dam😊
I am in a minority, but i actually think the Divine Beast dungeons in BotW were far superior to the dungeons in TotK. Sure maybe they lacked the themeing of old zelda dungeons, but they were much more concise in what they wanted to be. The idea of manipulating the layout of the dungeon itself in order to solve puzzles isnt new to zelda, but it makes for awesome dungeon design that requires creative puzzle solving. I feel the dungeons in TotK brought back the themes in order to appease previous zelda fans, while also making them divine beast-esque to appease BotW fans and i think in the end created a let down for both. I'll never forget having to adjust the trunk on Vah Ruta, or the Wings on Vah Medoh to solve those unique puzzles. TotK on the other hand had super simplistic dungeons that could be way too easily cheesed. I enjoyed the first half of the Lightning temple, but then halfway through you end up in a large corridor with multiple paths all of which lead to one of 4 terminals. It was just not good design to me. And then theres the fire temple which was just a strange mine cart puzzle that could, again, be cheesed, and don't get me started on the absolutely terrible water temple in TotK. Thats all to say nothing of the absolute banger that was Hyrule Castle in BotW, which in TotK is a shadow of its former self sadly. Now im not saying the Divine beasts beat old school Zelda dungons, not even close. But i do think they had a unique identity that made them vastly superior. Whereas TotK they lacked that identity because the zelda team didnt seem to know what they wanted their new dungeons to be. Ironically stiffled by their own insistence on freedom, while also attempting to appease older series fans. Idk just my two cents. Sorry for the rant.
I think that the games really have places for both facets, more structured temples and dungeons that are more in line with what the traditional Zelda player is expecting, as well as the open unique divine beasts. I do genuinely think they are great and interesting, i think it really is just an issue of structure. imagine if you had normal dungeons, and the Divine Beasts were wandering the lands while you explored, and upgraded your weapon for finishing them, or gave you special non pivotal abilities! it would i think really compliment them.
What fantastic exploration in WW? Its a f*cking literal blue void, nothingness. A developer shortcut for the game to meet a release date. At least TP had landmasses, actual landmarks you can explore. Seing Hyrule Castle in the distance in the middle of a thunderstorm is a moment that WW couldnever replicate. WW its basically holes in a blue plain you enter or at best the immersion braking mini structures or towns we used to see in old school jrpgs.
The exploration in the game would've been better if it led to some chicken. This channel promised lots of chicken and now I am hungry (Grumble grumble).
Sorry, I do hate this revisionism . Yes totk is being heavily panned now but there seems to be an uptick in people saying all the rest were great releases at the time . Only oot had a massive fanfare through its release . Mm was disliked due to its mechanics. Ww was given flack from fans as the last third of the game clunky and the boat mechanic were tedious . Twilight princess received the worst of it in the few years of its release. Stretched out over world , cluttering of items , weak cop out with ganondorf being the actual baddy. Wasn’t until skyward was released it got a better reevaluation . Ss criticism came more so from a generation that had just been spoiled by the likes of dark souls 1-3 and Skyrim of that same year. Truth is , this franchise needed botw and this franchise equally was not going go drop those elements of the game to appease fans for a more linear progression . If anything 20 million copies sold is a enough for Nintendo to continue the formula of open air
It wasn't "Always" open world. TOTK is phenominal and I'm tired of people pretending like it was bad or a misstep. It was quite literally the ultimate zelda experience! The reason why BOTW and TOTK even exists is because the games stopped being open as the series went on. TOTK and BOTW are TRUE open world games that allow you to choose your direction. And it's a damn shame that people willingly ignore the amazing effort and game design that went into these games for the sake of nostalgia. TOTK fixed so many of the longstanding issues of Zelda and provided an experience that actually encouraged exploration and allowed for truly unique experiences for each player thanks to its physics driven gameplay as well as amazing sense of exploration with the caves, sky and underworld. Seriously just for once I'd like to not be recommended a video calling this game garbage or mediocre. This game was like THE half life 2 for me and it sucks that Nintendo and Zelda fans are ignoring what is probably an obvious masterpiece. Literally genre defining. And that's despite BOTW preceding it!
I do genuinely think the games are fantastic , I state as much multiple times. It’s more me wondering what it is that was missing for me and those like me you know? I don’t want them to go back,the open world is genuinely fantastic, the creativity as well. What I’m more talking about is the lack of environmental story telling and meaningful lasting rewards that makes a lot of the exploration bleed together. I 100% agree that the game is awesome, that it fixes many problems that the series had in the past (I say as much in the video) but what I will say is that there is a balance to be had. Think how Elden Ring is truly open, but refined certain areas via towers and caves and so on. That’s more what I’m imagining!
I, my wife and both my sons, all disliked BOTW and never bought TOTK. As a family, we always loved Zelda games and looked forward to them. Heck I think my kids learned how to read playing Ocarina. You have thousands of videos that praise the games . ....Its called opinions and channels , nobody's forcing ya to watch them For my family this video was spot on.
Finally someone is saying it. Thank you. I never made it to finish either botw or totk because… they bore me. They are trying to be zelda but like the elder scrolls or similar games, but failing at both
@ yes I think that is why it got boring for me! I love the world itself, but I wish it had more details (I know thats a lot to ask in a world this scale). In other large open world games, going to any place would oftentimes reward you with a random site of an abandoned tent and a diary, maybe some loot etc. You would have dozens if noz hundreds of castles, towns and caves to explore and loot. In zelda the amount of places to explore seemed very little and even the new layers added in totk with caves etc didn’t solve this issue as just like the shrines these are quite repetitive and dont vaty a lot in what you can find in there. I just hope they can one day both return to item based zelda without breaking weapons AND have open worlds that let you explore lots of small little secrets
I get people feel many similarities between BOTW and TOTK, but it adds way more then most sequels today. Look at Spiderman 2 on ps5, or God of War Ragnarok LOL. TOTK is a masterpiece compared to those. I still had a blast with TOTK. There are things better in BOTW but TOTK mastered that formula and what I appreciate the most is that anything is optional. You can play the game without shrines, all regions have their own story too, many gameplay loops to keep the game fun. Yes, they could have been more creative with the boss cutscenes, offer another skill than just auto-build. The puzzles could be harder and bosses far more challenging, but they managed to include all BOTw dlc and make everything more organic- like beating the bosses in the Depths again. The depths also have more story if you choose to explore. Also what did people expect in the Skies? The Zoni have been extinct for thousands of years?!!!! I love the old games but most people are stuck in the past! These new games are far more replayable than the old ones. I think the only mistake that Nintendo does, is lowering the difficulty of everything to just streamline things for everyone- Mario Wonder was the absolute worst in this regard! TOTK has ok difficulty since some enemies can scale up, but the main bosses are not as creative and challenging to defeat. The older games had some better puzzles but once you figure it out, it’s harder to come back. I hope they remake Ocarina of Time but create deeper combat (even over Elden Ring) but keep the atmosphere of the classic. But Nostalgia is killing gaming too, let Nintendo be creative but let’s make noise so that they make games for hardcore experienced players too- at least by adding more difficulty levels! Anyway, I don’t get why people compare BOTW when these two games are one game one story! It’s the almost perfect remake of Ocarina- a kid Links part before Ganon gets to power and Adult Link part. Also TOTK has awesome OOT references-Zelda as Shiek, or Ganon as Zelda, Shadow Ganon, Frox as Dodongo, etc. the only thing I agree with you is that I am also missing at least a few secret Items with unique skills. Overall TOTK is almost perfect and people should appreciate more the things it does right than the things it does differently or not extremely well, because this game was released almost flawless! Look at every game today getting constant bug fixes, dlc’s, patches…., this game dwarfs most other AAA games and I loved it! The only thing that could beat it, would be a unique remaster of Ocarina Of Time and Majoras Mask together in 1 game!
i definitely agree that it adds a lot to the previous game, and although the map and general assets are the same, the building system alone would make it deserving of being an adequate sequel. That being said the bosses, the temples, the general world and towns are all significantly improved from its predecessor. My issues aren't with the games status as a sequel, but more in that the shrine system itself, along with the general openness of every facet of the game causes exploration fatigue. I think the game is great, i just would love to see some of the stuff i talked about change in future instalments. in the end though I am very glad that they branched out and innovated the stale formula though!
Overall a good video, but there were a few bothersome unsubstantiated statements, like... "TOTK's temples were an improvement over BOTW's Divine Beasts". In what respect? You immediately went on to say they're still too open, so what did they improve? Aesthetics? I would actually argue that the Divine Beasts (and I'm not defending those either, they're still bad) are actually more spiritually accurate to classic Zelda dungeons than they are, solely because TOTK's temples are just the Divine Beasts without a central control mechanism. Those mechanisms brought a unifying throughline to the beasts, which is something classic dungeons usually had, just in a different way. Without them, dungeons just became 4-5 shrine puzzles on platforms. Literally, in the case of the Water Temple. I wouldn't call TOTK a masterpiece or objectively fantastic, either. Hell, calling even BOTW the former is a tough call now considering how many people think TOTK invalidates its existence, and the fact that BOTW has left an unstable legacy behind with its sequel being such a derivative flop. Although then you have games like Elden Ring that are clearly inspired by it but do its stuff just so much better. So maybe its legacy isn't so unstable? It's certainly been usurped, though. Hell, Elden Ring might be about to win a second GOTY award while TOTK didn't win any.
I guess that my intention with the “objectively fantastic” statement was more from a mechanical and tech perspective. The game is innovative and although it has its problems I do think it’s a good game. Thank for pointing out the claim I made without expanding, I guess I didn’t realize I hadn’t explained it. I’ll keep an eye out for stuff like that in the future. I’m Im still new to this stuff so it’s really helpful to have genuine criticism! When making a video it’s a bit easier to lose through lines when editing because of time.
I said WW was an open world on reddit and got downvoted all the way to Australia
They never recognize genius in its own era
It is objectively an open world game
Cause...Reddit.
Tears of the Kingdom is the only Zelda game that doesn’t have its own identity mainly because it has absolutely no idea what it wants to be. If you consider the time period that both Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom came out, Breath of the Wild is clearly better. Plain and simple. Breath of the Wild wasn’t perfect but it was completely necessary for the time it came out. Tears of the Kingdom wasn’t perfect but also wasn’t necessary as well. That’s the difference for me. It’s a sequel that took 7 years to make and yet it shares 90% of the same exact inventory as its predecessor while being on the exact same map as well. The main problem is that you are going around this world collecting the same exact stuff and doing the same exact stuff as you did 7 years ago in Breath of the Wild. That’s tedious. It’s a reasonable thing to bring up especially from an objective standpoint.
The difference between Twilight Princess, Majora’s Mask, Skyward Sword, Wind Waker, and Ocarina of time is that all of these games even though they borrow the same formula to a certain degree all have their own identity that belongs to them. Tears of the Kingdom doesn’t feel like it has its own identity. It just feels like more of the same game as before.
I can definitely see that, although the game is impressive from a technical standpoint it does seem like a medium to deliver the mechanics at times.
The four games that you mentioned(except Skyward Sword) are also supposed to be in the same canon. Majora's Mask being a direct sequel, Twilight Princess have OOT Link in it and Wind Waker is just the future OOT Link left.
the problem stemmed from breath of the wild in the first place. if they had just made it blatantly downfall timeline like originally intended (which would still make sense, the zora are river zora. and fokka are seen in zelda 2, they're bird people. would've solved that issue), i feel like a lot of the stuff that lacks in substance would probably have more detail or thought out concepts. the game would have more identity because the "ambiguous not really connected to anything and/or merges all timelines" excuse really dampens my care for all three games in this series. i see a lot of my friends feel that way too. i still prefer botw for its more obvious downfall elements though. plus, the zonai plot was entirely doomed from the start.
In other words it’s an expansion pack to BOTW
Majora's Mask was a direct sequel to a previous game that ALSO used a lot of the same assets, but it was the WAY that it reused those assets that made it great. Not just doing the same shit we did in the last game, only this time the shrines and towers have different skins. The Zonai shrines even have the same fucking music as the Sheikah shrines (if you stand outside of a Zonai shrine, it is literally the exact same music that plays when you approach a Sheikah shrine in BotW; the only exceptions are the shrines on the Great Sky Island)
The editing is peak. Modern Zelda is just playing in a sandbox until you get bored. The classic games was an experience. We felt like we were there ourselves. They had atmosphere that enraptured us. The overworld and enemies limited us. That was to encourage us to find that next tool to tackle obstacles and certain enemies. The wild games lack this. We're just thrown in and are already more or less capable of conquering every obstacle or enemies. There is no structure or since of progression. Obtaining new tools and abilities feels satisfying because it opens up our sandbox bit by bit. Having everything on hand from the get go means the player doesn't ever feel like anything is challenging or surprising. We already see most of what the game has to show us right after the tutorial. Tutorials should really be the majority of any game. Portal is a excellent example of this. Most of the gane is learning all the different things you can do gmthen the end you put what you've learned to the test. Having it all spelled out right off the bat plays all cards far too soon. Echoes of Wisdom is a step in the right direction. It's still open but has structure and progression via the echoes. Replace them with items and we're cooking.
I still haven’t played Echoes of Wisdom but I’ve heard good stuff! I definitely agree though, the feeling of learning the world as you go is missing.
ngl maybe it’s me playing these games on emulators or something else but i felt the opposite. all of the games are good and i can see why people are disappointed with the direction botw and totk went, but if they just REALLY polish it, maybe we all could enjoy it
To be fair, the director always liked to brag about how you can go straight to the main objective if you so wish in botw.
I believe that philosophy was one of the major guidelines in the world structure
@drkz4ck That's what I'm saying is my biggest problem the lack of structure and progression. The fact that you can do that is the biggest example of my biggest problem.
@@spartanq7781 oh absolutely, I just wanted to point out that the devs accomplished their intended vision in that regard.
Even though I enjoyed the wild era, I'm a big fan of a well structured approach. Although, Skyward sword felt too restrictive imo
You nailed it. The new games have some fun to offer, but it's short lived. Once you get over the novelty of everything given to you at the start, there's not much left. Which sounds funny to say when the world is so huge, but it's because none of that huge world is given significance. What do you get for exploring that cave? A weapon that'll break in a few hits. That doesn't feel rewarding. That's not memorable. Everything you do feels like a waste of time because you just get more resources you'll use up. There's no big upgrade. No hookshot to find and open up more of the world to you, it's already all open. Once you've had your fill, just go fight ganon. The rest of the game might as well not be there.
It does feel like, even though there is progression, it's all built upon the concept of gradual QOL progression and the significant moments are lost for the sake of uninhibited exploration and openness.
When 75% of quests get you 50 rupees, I feel ya.
This is why simplicity is an integral part of game design. Creativity can only emerge from limitation. When you give a lot of options and freedom to a player then there is no purpose left for any of those options. It's a circular paradox that creates infinite problems as you approach them more.
I’m currently playing through Ocarina of Time for the first time going in completely blind. For this game in particular, there is no nostalgia bias going on for its fans. It's simply peak.
It really is so good
I wish the run speed didnt irritate me when I attempted oot 3d. it was either slow run speed or having to hear HYAH HUP HA just to go slightly faster every time u did a roll
You forgot that Botw was a reaction to Skyward Sword. But I agree that by the time Totk came out the series has become too open, even exploring the same world.
Ya I forgot how poorly received Skyward sword was.
I hate that btw. There’s nothing wrong with Skyward Sword as far as I can tell and for me, both TP and MM are better than BoTW
I think improving on The WW and TP formulas would make a better open-world LoZ. They had the open exploration to varying degrees with the direction of a more linear experience and some challenge in terms of puzzle and enemy design. Having open overworld movement with larger, semi-linear dungeons with fun dungeon items that actually get used, and better rewards is my ideal LoZ game.
When a 200 view video on your recommended tab is actually good>>>
I remember someone on here used a food analogy so I'll modify it: The switch Zelda games are like pizza, they might even be the best pizza I've ever had. But I come to this restaurant because I want burgers, and it seems like the burgers will never come back. Also every other restaurant sells pizza now and that was the only place you could get burgers in town.
Thank you so much! Fo real on the food thing though, I didn’t come to Zelda for the pepperoni I came for the medium rare patty!
That's a pretty bad analogy tho, they're still making alttp/oot style zelda games. They just decided to branch out because people were getting tired of the linear zelda formula after skyward sword.
@@theguywhodoesthings9608 I would say it's a pretty apt analogy since they are not making alttp/oot games anymore. If you're going to bring up Echoes it's the switch games grafted on to 2d Zelda. Taking the analogy further, when asked to return to making burgers since they were the only ones in town that did, Nintendo stuffed some pizza in between two buns and called it a day. Mistakenly thinking the surface ingredients is what makes a burger.
Are the new altp/oot style Zelda games in the room with us now?
It is Majora's Mask. Still my favorite game of all time. So much caught up in its themes, dungeon design, music, and the way it lets you figure out how everything fits together in its 3 day time system.
It really is so good, the level of detail they put into the atmosphere is fantastic
Agreed, and I'll say I felt transient in botw and totk, like I didn't belong. In earlier games you started in a home that rooted you to the world.
It definitely feels like Link has very little… presence in the world. Although considering that our boy got frozen for 100 years it makes some sense.
This video was so good! So glad this showed up in my recommended.
I think a big thing missing from botw and totk is any real reason to use the systems creatively. You *can* use them creatively, but you are never given any incentive to do so. The best parts of botw that I wish you had touched on were eventide island and the dlc trials of the sword. In both areas you are stripped of your items and given limited resources to solve problems, this pressured players into being creative with the game systems and I wish the designers could've captured that gameplay more throughout the games. It was the only time I felt like I was being rewarded for my creativity!
Thank you so much! Ya I definitely agree that the lack of pressure to truly utilize the systems makes the game feel a bit hollow until those moments.
You get the Master Sword pretty early in Wind Waker, but it's depowered when you get it.
True but no one knows that before he gets it
23:07 joke's on you, my favorite Zelda game is Majora's Mask
Damn they got my ass
The contrast between open exploration and structured dungeons is exactly what zelda needs, it's why ss was so polarizing.
The "open" world was basically a dungeon so when you get to the actual dungeons you are already tired.
Very well put together video my friend. I can only imagine how much time it took you to put this together but I'll be here for the next one. Also, I am so glad I see Twilight Princess getting the love it's always deserved these days
Twilight princess deserves the love!
underwater exploration and the hookshot.
Every god damn time
@@LotsofChicken lol
@@darklordyianni4463 I always liked the underwater exploration, it's funny how only the most "open" 3d games don't have it (no going to hyrule under the ocean in WW doesn't count)
@@LilacMonarch except that wasbnt open world
@@darklordyianni4463 where did i say open world?
“Now the boys club is subtextual. We’ve come so far” had me snickering so much.
Can't wait for the Zelda cycle to do it's thing when we get a normal-ish Zelda 3 years down the line and people are like "I miss TOTK so much man 😔"
I genuinely hope that they just refine the direction they’ve been going without backpedaling into what it used to be. Also what about my video makes you think I want a classic Zelda instead? I’m curious because I’ve gotten a couple comments like this even though I don’t say the game is bad…
This video was a pleasant surprise.
You really made some good points.
Besides that, nice editing, good jokes, entertaining writing and style and of course good structure :)
Thank you!
I love how you edited yourself in different spots throughout the entire video, it was refreshing to watch, good video, definitely have similar feelings in regards to that curated artpiece vs the make it yourself deal, it's like going from a 5 star restaurant to being sent to it's kitchen, sure you might have all the same ingredients that they use, but unless you know how to cook as well as the people who've been trained to make that dish, that curated experience, it's not gonna be as good.
Plus it's just a lot more work, it's not the same as a nice and pleasant sit and dining.
Really enjoyed this video not just for the points but the editing music etc!
Thank you!
I'm glad someone else shares the "twilight princess is ocarina of time again but with wolves" lol You can see the heavy inspiration throughout i love it
Imo zelda games are best when you can see how fun they'd be randomized - shaking up the order in which you gain new ways to explore
I definitely agree, and it’s not wrong to be inspired by a previous success if you really utilize it
There are definitely similarities but Twilight Princess has its own identity with its own story, vibe, atmosphere, superior dungeons, better items, better combat, the best version of Link and the greatest companion. Twilight Princess perfected the art of 3D Zelda while Ocarina of Time set the standard.
@@ShadowWizard224 And it's also funny to think that Hero's Shade is Hero of Time.
randomizers must be an extra mode for every Zelda game
@@ShadowWizard224 The biggest criticism about Twilight Princess was "It's basically OoT with updated graphics and controls."
Yeah... That's what makes it great. OoT was amazing, but it was restricted by hardware limitations. Twilight Princess perfected almost everything that OoT couldn't bring to fulfillment.
Each Zelda game has had a strong deviation from the standard format that makes every one of them unique in some way, but BotW strayed way too far from the base structure that unites every game in the series. I genuinely hope that this isn't going to be the future of the series.
I always get a little triggered when even videos critical of TOTK still caveat things by saying it's a 'masterpiece', or 'objectively fantastic' in this case. I think this is what people feel obliged to say to avoid getting too heavily criticised by people on the internet.
The flaws in the game are so huge and so obvious I don't think it's anything close to objectively fantastic. I think it's a straight up bad game in many different ways. There are some great elements but there are also a lot of abysmal elements. Unpopular opinion but I'll die on that hill.
I'm sure the video will go over many of my reasons! Will leave another comment after I finish watching.
Yeah, TotK is absolutely not a masterpiece, not even close. Good? Ehh...maybe. But not a masterpiece. It has elements that are fantastic to be sure, but as a whole it just doesn't work too well.
It is a masterpiece, you just have bad taste
Finally someone sees
wild to think there's only been 5 traditional 3d zelda games
I know right?! I’m hoping that they simply branch 2 styles out of this someday
02:32 That should have ended the video. "Exploration & Discovery" are the corner stones. The new games have those 2 amplified, plus puzzle solving & arguably the best combat in the series.
Everything else is either presentation preferences or trivial elements that some fans attached to.
*that some fans are attached to.
My biggest problem was the ending, they have this long, arduous cutscene that acts as a farewell to Mineru, a character we saw in 3 cutscenes and was the last sage we got in the present.
My theory is that she was meant to be a companion character at some point, being a voice that speaks to you through the Purah Pad while having amnesia or something so the reveal feels more natural. Chances are, it was scrapped for some reason or another, so her soul was just dormant in the Purah Pad until it was convenient to the plot.
Zelda has always had legendary stories, BoTW left me wanting but did it's own thing, ToTK just feels half-baked and like it doesn't even do BoTW's story justice.
0:36 what was missing…..a story
i mean when played in order the story is pretty good (for Zelda), it's just too easy to fuck it up.
@@LotsofChickenEh, I still think it was boring. Maybe it’s because the ending has a deus ex machina, or maybe the story just had abysmal writing. It’s just bland and makes me feel nothing.
@@LotsofChicken I'd say the *back*story was pretty good, but the actual story you're playing through, that you can actually affect, is pretty basic and crap Mario level "oh noes a problem - oh you fixed it, yay!" style story interspersed with what I describe as embedded RUclips videos showcasing an adventure I'd rather be playing, where the world is actually changing and things are actually happening.
That was my experience with TotK, and honestly BotW too; a dull open world sandbox where I got to see glimpses of the game I *wanted* to play, given to me in random order as I found them unless I was careful.
They should make a souls-like game where you play as Zelda and it's called "The Legend Of Link".
Can you imagine? I feel like some of the souslike stuff could really help make the game feel more polished. I mean to be honest though those older games are genuinely pretty brutal.
with miyazaki citing zelda as a HUGE inspiration for the souls games, it wouldn’t make sense.
[casually looks at Adventure of Link which would be a perfect candidate for that type of remake]
Souls games are a tired formula at this point so no. That's the last thing they should do.
God no, every souls like sux...I ain't grinding the same enemies for hundreds of hours, only to die from a blind side attack, losing all my souls, forcing me to start over again
you convinced me. if the world of wind waker is open, i DON'T want an open world zelda
lol, it was kinda monotonous going around in your boat when I went back and played it. Had to keep reminding myself that this was 3 years before even Oblivion
I had a blast playing TOTK, but my main gripe upon retrospect is that by zelda standards it feels unfinished. The sky islands were used as the main advertising of the game, yet they are a collection of a the same small islands with the same small puzzles on them. the depths is a vast open world to explore that has only a few rewards of substance other than cosmetics. imagine a TOTK with an array of different temples, ruins, structures, villages and people to explore all in the sky while in the depths, also new temples, ruins etc. Each having story or side quest significance with long puzzle box style dungeons that actually have history and story significance instead of the shrines. The shrines basically make both BOTW and TOTK un-replayable for me because every time want to start a new save a get a wave of dread remembering that i have to do 50-60 of those annoying bite sized puzzle shrines in order to feel a shred of growth for Link. I also hate the concept of the Zonai that straight up replaces everything having to do with the Sheika with little explanation. additonally they have no sense of urgency in the plot. it feels like Link could just ignore Gannon for his entire life and nothing would actually happen. Items in old games served as world keys, but in the Wild era games having all tools in the beginning take away some of the "metroidvania" out of Zelda. Getting new tools not only expands link's arsenal, but also exploration ability. Totk does do a good job of showing the player all kinds of different ways to use their tools, but I still feel little sense of progress comparatively.
I totally agree on the Gannon urgency thing, you used to actually see what he was doing to the world around you as he rose to power, in the most recent games he’s just kinda… in the background and peoples lives aren’t changed.
I also would love to see the game you imagined, the world building we used to see in these games is really only present in a few places compared to everywhere like it used to be.
best criticism of the new games i’ve seen so far, the sky islands are my biggest gripe with the game as it feels half-implemented. it’s an ambitious game so definitely lacks the polish of older games
It fits my playstyle really well, i dont have any complaints regarding it but its nice to hear others' opinions
Thanks for being open! I totally get that people have different preferences.
Honestly fully agree with this, as much as I enjoyed botw/totk I missed the more structural aspects like with TP - which also tbh with the massive openness of the world and next to know structure also tbh affected the story portion. Leaving so much of the story as like just bits of random open world side quest to seek out instead of letting it unfold during your journey around. I haven't played a lot of them but I think TP is close to being my favourite- the only thing hindering my enjoyment coming from the darn escort mission section of the game I'm so bad at it was doing a replay and really thought I'd be able to get through it this time but I'm once again stuck on it.
underrated for sure. great video to watch right before diving into totk again
Thanks!
As someone who liked the botw shrines but started getting tired of the totk shrines, I still never understood why people complained that they were "short" and "samey," I just figured "Yeah, that's the point. They're little tests by the sheikah/zonai to prepare Link for battle. I never connected to just how much I love the worldbuilding the dungeons in other games do. And I didn't even think about the overworld/underworld flow, because I just already expected the flow to be very different.
Windwaker has 6 dungeons if you count the forbidden fortress, dragon roost, the forbidden woods, tower of the gods, wind temple and earth temple. 7 if you for some reason count ganons tower on the surface world.
I love your videos! Keep up the great work ❤
My favourite LoZ game is indeed Majora's Mask!
You earned yourself a sub.
Subscribing for the green screen edits and the brain questioning (I do that too).
I lost track of the general discussion point I wanted to bring up, it probably was something along the lines of the series used to promote balance but now is marketing itself to be all exploration all the time withoutn really doing a good job with dungeoneering.
But I wanted to mention WW had 7 dungeons (and 2 were cut from time restraints). There's were 2 pearls, two opposing towers, 2 sages, and one Forsaken Fortress split between 2 halves of the story.
Ya I realized when re-watching that I forgot about the forsaken fortress entirely lol. And thank you!
@@LotsofChicken It's really easy to do so since it's explored so unconventionally. It's not often the story requires you to go to a dungeon twice.
it's nice to hear the frustration with modern zelda expressed through a less antagonistic lens
I love a little totk hating but it's kinda exausting how the two modes with switch zelda is vitriol or blind praise
Ya i get frustrated by it too, I want to be critical while recognizing that i enjoyed playing the game, and think that it is good in many ways. Nuanced opinions are less interesting from an entertainment standpoint though so we often see less of them.
Idk to me the puzzles in the old games had their appeal BECAUSE there was only one way to solve them. I'd end up seeing areas i couldn't get to yet or seeing cousins further in their playthroughs and feel like I unraveled something hand knit to be cool once I went along the same path.
I feel like there is a balance to be had, some of both you know?
Excellent presentation, awesome editing, and comprehensive view on what makes a Zelda game a "Zelda game".
Thank you!
The 15:50 mark, ish. Not sure if you address it further into the video but wanted to get my thought down now... Not only does giving the player every item they will need up front risk overwhelming them, but it also means that in the future there is very little new comlplexity to be had... If you already have all the items and are taught all the ways to use them such as in the plateau of BOTW, Then you already know the way to do almost everything going forward.. There might be some puzzles that require you to use them in an unusual way, but, for the most part, you know the answers... Meanwhile in the older zelda games, the way you get items one by one means a slow ramp up in complexity that the player can acclimate to as they go, and by the end has an overall greater depth of complexity because of it.
Definitely agree, it does remove the feeling of discovery and freshness that could be had
The thing that kills BOTW/TOTK combat is how samey all the weapons feel. The bouncy hammer, Master Sword, a stick, and a wand all have the same exact animations and timing. Sure they do something different when you hit an enemy, but like *gestures back at fromsoft* A scimitar, short sword, dagger, etc. will have their own unique animations and timings as well as the unique properties.
The big thing that killed me was that poleaxes are my favorite weapons in media and seeing link wield it the same as a mop, javelin, long stick, or pike was so disappointing. Link is sitting there stabbing with a glaive/halberd and my soul is screaming about how those are edged weapons and should be sliced with.
I just realized that the main reason I enjoyed Tears of the Kingdom so much is because at that time I wasn't working, so I was free to binge the game like it was my full time job until the game was done. I wasn't feeling fatigued by it because putting in that many hours every day meant that I was guaranteed at least a few incredible moments every day, even if the experiences wasn't as curated as the earlier games. When I finally defeated Ganondorf and reunited with Zelda, I felt like I had been on an incredible, once-in-a-lifetime journey.
If I could only put in a few hours a week like I'm currently doing with Echoes of Wisdom, I don't think I'd enjoy it as much. "Wow, this week I helped a guy put up a sign, found a Korok seed, and did a lot of walking and climbing. I think I'm only five months away from beating the game."
There are still moments I remember from playing the first time, and the game is really stunning! I just feel that a combination of curation and those experiences you mentioned could make the game even better!
400+ hours in Botw (2 complete runs) and 300+ hours in Totk (1 run) kinda prooves you right and wrong at the same time^^
I agree with you! Think of what they could have done wit an open wold, like Breath Of The Wild, and made it like a traditional Zelda game. Imagine trying to look for something in a vast world, that’s almost impossible to find. Like a special tool, to let you advance, and it’s hidden somewhere, or a giant dungeon, with parts of the dungeon in the sky, and connected to a deep underground! ? I like how huge the landscape was. I just wish they did more with it.
If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice
And yet you still chose to comment when you could have chosen not too. The human brain is so funny!
it's not "intangible" actually, it's Aonuma's authority that's missing. OOT, MM, WW, TP, & SS are all a 5 part collage that all refer back to one another in dialogue, visuals, and many other poetic moments. My analysis is very much ongoing, but the first two parts are here: SaSf8MKGpbg and X4I8YPtB8DM
also the Miaymoto stuff only applies to Zelda 1, 2, & 3 and basically don't exist in Aonuma's directed titles apart from brand association (and i guess the chest jingle?) to call all of these things "Zelda games" is to broadly overgeneralize
I love the last line about leaving behind the artistic refinement. Personally, Aonuma and Fujibiyashi will never deliver that as they are both clearly mechanically minded individuals. Unless another artistic minded person like Koizumi leads Zelda, we’re stuck with this I fear. Did you play Pikmin 4? That game felt like a classic Nintendo game.
I've been making videos about this since TOTK came out! You are 100% on the money with this one! Good work!
I’ll have to check it out
@@LotsofChicken It's cool that I found another RUclipsr talking about this with about the same sub count. Let me know if you ever want to colab.
Loved your editing style! Like a lot of things in this video, it’s a nice bit of dopamine :)
Monkey brain go brrrrr
My favorite game is Wind Waker and I love the dungeons where you teamed up with the sages to solve puzzles. It was a way better Princess Ruto dungeon. For me, nothing is better than the music ramping up when you sail the ocean for the first time. I do agree that having the dungeon aspect of Twilight Princess would have made it better, but WW inches out ahead because of the ship combat when you are fighting in a typhoon
WW was one of the games i went back and played for the video and that stuff did hit, i guess it just comes down to the fact that the first dungeon legit lasted like... 15 minutes and although the vibes are great on the open sea, searching for the Triforce pieces was a slog. Don't get me wrong, love the game though.
@LotsofChicken every game has its flaws, so it doesn't really bother me. With how much I've played these games, it better not. I even remembered the whole howl from the Wolf Link howl scene you put in the video. It takes a lot for me to love a game as much as I did these 2 games
I’ve been thinking about why people like us might struggle with the newer Zelda games on the Switch, and I’ve come up with two potential reasons.
First, the difficulty. Compared to Ocarina of Time, the newer games feel easier. OoT demanded problem-solving and patience-some puzzles could leave you stuck for days. Even the final Ganon fights used to be intense challenges, but now they feel like a cakewalk. While this approach might appeal to broader audiences, for those of us who grew up on the series, it’s a noticeable shift.
Second, we’re older now. Ocarina of Time was the first game I ever beat, and it was a defining moment of my childhood. Over the years, I’ve loved every Zelda installment, and while Breath of the Wild is phenomenal, it left me feeling like something was missing-like it just didn’t hit the same way.
Maybe it’s nostalgia, or maybe it’s that games felt more magical when we were kids. I’m not sure. It’s something I’ve been trying to figure out for years because I still enjoy a lot of modern games. So many RPGs and Zelda like games I've enjoyed over the last 5 years, but not Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom. I honestly don't get it. I should enjoy them but I don't.
Great video, brother. Your editing is insane!
Thank you! Ya it’s extra weird to me as well considering that I know I should enjoy it, considering that the game itself is genuinely fun and interesting.
This is exactly the problem I was hoping they were going to fix with TOTK. My hope was that they would leave the open world largely the same, but within the dungeons, do something to limit the player and create a more structured experience.
My dream was that they would give the player a reduced inventory in the dungeons, so players would have to pick what they wanted to bring in with them. That way they could structure the dungeons in a more long form manner where you are actually worried to use the things you brought, cause you might not be able to find more of that specific thing in the dungeon. They could then place items in the dungeon MEANT for the dungeon and create more puzzles with actually one solution. I really wanted to feel like "delving" into a dungeon held more weight.
That's a great idea for fixing the issue, i always imagined a solution as more of a some weapons are permanent and really good ones are impermanent but less unique, and you get the permanent ones for completing optional dungeons.
I look at Tears/Breath as being the unintuitive extreme of Miyamoto’s ‘choose your difficulty through gameplay’ approach. Any amount of challenge requires self imposed limitations. It’s too free and breakable. For example, in Tears I like to only allow myself only 1 weapon fuse per weapon type (1-hand, 2-hand, spear). Fighting with un-fused weapons feels like hero mode. I also do what I call a “Blood Moon Flush” where, every blood moon, I throw all my inventory off a cliff. Nintendo didn’t finish designing the game, so we have to make it fulfilling ourselves lol jk
I feel like the difficulty in TOTK was where that really came through, because although you can have good weapons in BOTW it still doesn't really break the game in the same way, Lionel's are fun to fight, and many of the bosses were interesting. It' always weird, because i don't want games to alienate their audiences with difficulty, but i also don't want them to baby them either...
You're right. The need to bring some regular items back. Especially hookshot.
How high some of the mountains and cliffs be, Climbing can be hell and even on full stamina and additional stamina food it still becomes too much on Climbing sometimes. Especially the depths. There was some light roots on some HIGH AS HELL cliffs.
Even if it’s a late game item that makes the general movement mechanics fresh it would be a nice touch.
@LotsofChicken right 💯
Great video sir. On point.
Good story, memorable music and linear, or at least stronger, plot direction
Instead of having just one place where you get, for example, the Hookshot, why not having 5 spots where you can find it?
And after getting that Hookshot, the remaining 4 spots will change and give you instead something that upgrades the Hookshot.
I can’t say I fully agree with all of your points, but I’m glad I watched this video. You’re incredibly well spoken, and it’s nice to hear a different perspective on a series that I love. And you’re absolutely right about the dungeons. They used to feel more… I don’t know. Important? They felt mysterious and had legitimately good lore behind them. They gave you a better understanding of Hyrule and the people in it. Like OoT’s Shadow Temple, and that frigid mansion in Twilight Princess. I personally prefer the open world format, I just have more fun exploring a giant sandbox from the beginning with zero restrictions. But the dungeons, the mystery and the lore have absolutely suffered. Like you said, I think they could take notes from Elden Ring’s legacy dungeons.
Anyway, thank you for articulating your points in a respectful and insightful manner. You definitely earned a sub.
I can definitely agree that the open world format is better, it just feels like the game is missing some of the environmental storytelling that many of the previous games excelled at, specifically with dungeons. Not to say TOTK & BOTW don't have that, it just seems so distanced from your general gameplay.
Anyway thank you for giving me a chance!
Imo they will just keep improving. U can tell in botw and totk their main focus was the physics engine imo
I seriously hope so! I can imagine so much of TOTK development time was spent on the morphing/combining
I could buy that with BotW, but they spent 7 years on TotK and it's still 90% BotW. Not looking great to me
Insanely good video! We literally have such similar video styles it’s super cool to see! Keep up the great work, earned my sub for sure!
I’ll have to check out your work!
Love you and internet pitstop for fun green screen commentary.
Love that guy
hey pal, that was a HECK of a good video, and you nail it when it comes to the structure part, but, (and this very important) there is a video named as "The Question No One Asks Shigeru Miyamoto" which was SURPRISINGLY SO EYE opening in regard to why zelda breath of the wild is the way it is, i will not tell you any thing beside that zelda developers consider every attempt they did with zelda before breath of the wild to be unsuccessful, BUT NOT IN THE WAY YOU THINK, SO please, i hope you watch that video, and don't forget to tell me your thoughts about what drived zelda developers to make zelda games like breath of the wild and tears of the king dom
0:43 if you’re not counting trifoce heroes, then it’s actually a link between worlds
That game was so good, weird that I didn’t realize it was the most recent before the switch ones
both items sets can work in 1 game
I enjoyed every second of this. FINALLY! Someone who understands my angle. Also Editing was incredibly engaging . :V 10/10
Thank you so much!
BotW was supposed to be a modern interpretation of the very first Zelda game, but I don't think the game succeeded at that goal at all. The magic of Zelda 1 is that on one hand the game is very open and requires exploration, but it also has a lot of structure and a clear difficulty curve. You can't go to any place in the overworld at the beginning, instead it opens up bit by bit when you get new items from the dungeons. You technically can access dungeon 8 within minutes from booting up the game, but you have to know where it's hidden and you're not likely to survive for long unless you know what you're doing. Zelda 1 and 2 are really challenging games compared to pretty much anything that came after.
This challenge to exploration, proper dungeons with a clear difficulty curve, and the overworld slowly opening up is completely missing in BotW and TotK. Exploration in these games doesn't feel fun, because the only meaningful things you'll find are uninteresting shrines and lackluster divine beasts/dungeons. There's no natural difficulty curve to the game and no challenge to the exploration. You don't need to plan your expeditions, because you can carry an insane amount of health items, can change your clothing at any time, and the game auto-saves constantly. I really think an actually modern Zelda game that understands the first game on a deep level could be a very exciting and interesting game, but BotW and TotK are definitely not it.
this video is mesmerizing I feel like I'm playing where's waldo /pos
Soon you’ll see me in other people’s videos.
Justice for spirit tracks fr fr
The peoples Link
all zelda games have open world elements but wind waker was open world
an as segmented as twilight princess world yea they technically where
but totk was missing charm an botw an totk was kinda missing complexity to exploration i know both games had some complexity.
i thought the sky isles would make travel harder but the zonia wing an other devices make travel even faster then botw
what they could have done was put the paraglider in hyrule castle or have the runes or other runes in the dungions
also puzzles the great sky island was always fun to me because you don't have all the tools that you likely will use
each dungeon having 5 or 4 objectives an didn't have a final unlock for the dungeon after before going after the boss or more ways too think about how to do a puzzle.
the most fun i had with the rewind shrine was not rewinding the raft instead shooting a arrow with frost chu jelly over the water an rewinding that
I really enjoyed some of the relative solutions and so on that the newer installments have, I don’t want the game to go back on those facets you know?
@@LotsofChicken not even close to what i was saying.
6:45 banjo & Kazooie nuts and bolts
I haven’t thought about that game in ages lol
If I could write a note to Nintendo, the weapon breaking would be replaced with enemies knocking the weapon from you and stealing it. A sword or bow breaking after a few uses is ridiculous and made me enjoy botw and totk less.
Yeah he kinda right with that title after the 64 title each over world kinda got bigger and bigger over the course of series dang when I play wind waker for the first I was kinda overwhelm how big the over world was compared to ocerina of time
Loved this mate! You’re on point.
Thanks!
Something I can't forgive with BotW and TotK is that there is no musical instrument in either game. There are no songs to learn and play, and I feel like that is such a betrayal of the franchise. Music has always been a core aspect of LoZ because it acts as it's own magic system allowing you to teleport, conjure storms, travel through time, heal those whose souls are lost, etc. Link isn't Link without his ability to play music and change the world around him. Personally, this bothers me even more so than the lack of traditional dungeons/temples.
This feels like a video from 2019. You seem like a guy from 2019
i was in fact a guy in 2019
@@LotsofChickenshoutout to 2019
Love the video! Looking forward to more like this :)
I’m trying to keep a 3 week upload schedule. Key word trying…
0:09 Random, that street is really near where i live in London
There is definitely something missing from Tears of the Kingdom, but I'm not sure I would use classic Zelda as a diagnosis for what that is. I think TotK has a lot of classic Zelda design, the Zonai devices work as open world items for unlocking exploration, they are tutorialized one at a time and your ability to accrue them is unlocked at specific points in the sky. So I wouldn't agree that, that element of items unlocking exploration is lacking from TotK. I would argue that there's too much of it, too much overlap, too many items to unlock, and their overlapping, non-essential roles mean you can more or less ignore them.
The problem is this decision fatigue, as you rightly point out, is costly. The game is a lot more tedious to explore if you don't engage with them, especially if you already played BotW. Old Zelda games you would not be able to progress at all if you didn't understand something, but TotK lets you proceed anyway if you don't understand even its most fundamental systems. In BotW, you would have to figure out some way to mitigate weather or climb over stuff, but TotK has much lower barriers to any of its challenges. As you said, you can settle into a tried-and-true, but possibly far from optimal set of tools over the course of the whole game. While I agree classic Zelda prevented this, it does so by grinding the game to a complete halt. I'm not sure what the solution is here, but I don't think it will be found in classic Zelda, I think the team needs to look ahead. IMO, TotK would have benefitted from not reusing so much of BotW's world progression, like blood moons, towers, shrines, Korok seeds, etc... Its gameplay needed wholly new contextualization that would minimize its decision fatigue. I'd go so far to argue, as much as I enjoyed revisiting this world, BotW's Hyrule is not the best map for TotK's gameplay. The whole map should have been designed to better teach players how to engage with its mechanics, instead of throwing a ton of tutorial shrines all over the place in highly missable locations.
I think more along the lines of some Elden Ring esque forced semi structured areas the do a good job at explaining some tool or utilizing some concept through it would be a good solution. I don’t want it to go back to how it was, I’m more looking at the older games as a lens for what part of the experience feels to be missing from a broad experiential standpoint. I agree with the BOTW stuff, but I also understand re-using assets like they did from a development standpoint.
Why do I get the feeling you just updated FinalCut and REALLY wanted to test out the Magnetic Mask?
Gotta learn my new tool ok
I love totk crafting to a certain extent, but the game overall is just too hard when any Bokoblin camp can one shot me, I know it’s a skill issue but dam😊
I am in a minority, but i actually think the Divine Beast dungeons in BotW were far superior to the dungeons in TotK.
Sure maybe they lacked the themeing of old zelda dungeons, but they were much more concise in what they wanted to be. The idea of manipulating the layout of the dungeon itself in order to solve puzzles isnt new to zelda, but it makes for awesome dungeon design that requires creative puzzle solving.
I feel the dungeons in TotK brought back the themes in order to appease previous zelda fans, while also making them divine beast-esque to appease BotW fans and i think in the end created a let down for both.
I'll never forget having to adjust the trunk on Vah Ruta, or the Wings on Vah Medoh to solve those unique puzzles.
TotK on the other hand had super simplistic dungeons that could be way too easily cheesed. I enjoyed the first half of the Lightning temple, but then halfway through you end up in a large corridor with multiple paths all of which lead to one of 4 terminals. It was just not good design to me. And then theres the fire temple which was just a strange mine cart puzzle that could, again, be cheesed, and don't get me started on the absolutely terrible water temple in TotK.
Thats all to say nothing of the absolute banger that was Hyrule Castle in BotW, which in TotK is a shadow of its former self sadly.
Now im not saying the Divine beasts beat old school Zelda dungons, not even close. But i do think they had a unique identity that made them vastly superior. Whereas TotK they lacked that identity because the zelda team didnt seem to know what they wanted their new dungeons to be. Ironically stiffled by their own insistence on freedom, while also attempting to appease older series fans.
Idk just my two cents. Sorry for the rant.
I think that the games really have places for both facets, more structured temples and dungeons that are more in line with what the traditional Zelda player is expecting, as well as the open unique divine beasts. I do genuinely think they are great and interesting, i think it really is just an issue of structure.
imagine if you had normal dungeons, and the Divine Beasts were wandering the lands while you explored, and upgraded your weapon for finishing them, or gave you special non pivotal abilities! it would i think really compliment them.
20:15 “say that again slowly”
Hawk… DAMNIT
What fantastic exploration in WW? Its a f*cking literal blue void, nothingness. A developer shortcut for the game to meet a release date. At least TP had landmasses, actual landmarks you can explore. Seing Hyrule Castle in the distance in the middle of a thunderstorm is a moment that WW couldnever replicate. WW its basically holes in a blue plain you enter or at best the immersion braking mini structures or towns we used to see in old school jrpgs.
*could never replicate
*breaking mini structures
Yeah I kinda always thought Zelda was always open world.
The exploration in the game would've been better if it led to some chicken. This channel promised lots of chicken and now I am hungry (Grumble grumble).
🐓
Your brain is actually many different brains working together. You desission center accept or ignores what the different brains suggest.
I love imagining some overworked brain bombarded by dumb brains suggesting wild shit
Sorry, I do hate this revisionism . Yes totk is being heavily panned now but there seems to be an uptick in people saying all the rest were great releases at the time . Only oot had a massive fanfare through its release . Mm was disliked due to its mechanics. Ww was given flack from fans as the last third of the game clunky and the boat mechanic were tedious . Twilight princess received the worst of it in the few years of its release. Stretched out over world , cluttering of items , weak cop out with ganondorf being the actual baddy. Wasn’t until skyward was released it got a better reevaluation . Ss criticism came more so from a generation that had just been spoiled by the likes of dark souls 1-3 and Skyrim of that same year. Truth is , this franchise needed botw and this franchise equally was not going go drop those elements of the game to appease fans for a more linear progression . If anything 20 million copies sold is a enough for Nintendo to continue the formula of open air
Did you watch the video? I say none of that I in fact critique Windwaker and Twilight Princess.
11:32 False. Most open ended zelda until open air ones was the original one. So the technical limitation theory doesnt hold.
I meant more for the 3d titles but go off king.
Sure the stamina and climbing system was new and refreshing... For people who never touched a game since the release of Shadow of the Colossus e_e
I mean to be fair, in the era that BOTW came out we were still Skyrim horse scaling mountains in a lot of AAA open worlds.
This video was right on
It wasn't "Always" open world. TOTK is phenominal and I'm tired of people pretending like it was bad or a misstep. It was quite literally the ultimate zelda experience!
The reason why BOTW and TOTK even exists is because the games stopped being open as the series went on. TOTK and BOTW are TRUE open world games that allow you to choose your direction. And it's a damn shame that people willingly ignore the amazing effort and game design that went into these games for the sake of nostalgia.
TOTK fixed so many of the longstanding issues of Zelda and provided an experience that actually encouraged exploration and allowed for truly unique experiences for each player thanks to its physics driven gameplay as well as amazing sense of exploration with the caves, sky and underworld.
Seriously just for once I'd like to not be recommended a video calling this game garbage or mediocre. This game was like THE half life 2 for me and it sucks that Nintendo and Zelda fans are ignoring what is probably an obvious masterpiece.
Literally genre defining. And that's despite BOTW preceding it!
I do genuinely think the games are fantastic , I state as much multiple times. It’s more me wondering what it is that was missing for me and those like me you know? I don’t want them to go back,the open world is genuinely fantastic, the creativity as well. What I’m more talking about is the lack of environmental story telling and meaningful lasting rewards that makes a lot of the exploration bleed together.
I 100% agree that the game is awesome, that it fixes many problems that the series had in the past (I say as much in the video) but what I will say is that there is a balance to be had. Think how Elden Ring is truly open, but refined certain areas via towers and caves and so on. That’s more what I’m imagining!
I, my wife and both my sons, all disliked BOTW and never bought TOTK. As a family, we always loved Zelda games and looked forward to them. Heck I think my kids learned how to read playing Ocarina.
You have thousands of videos that praise the games . ....Its called opinions and channels , nobody's forcing ya to watch them
For my family this video was spot on.
Finally someone is saying it. Thank you.
I never made it to finish either botw or totk because… they bore me. They are trying to be zelda but like the elder scrolls or similar games, but failing at both
I do think that the games succeed in being fun open world games, but they struggle in how far apart the awesome exploration moments are.
@ yes I think that is why it got boring for me! I love the world itself, but I wish it had more details (I know thats a lot to ask in a world this scale). In other large open world games, going to any place would oftentimes reward you with a random site of an abandoned tent and a diary, maybe some loot etc. You would have dozens if noz hundreds of castles, towns and caves to explore and loot. In zelda the amount of places to explore seemed very little and even the new layers added in totk with caves etc didn’t solve this issue as just like the shrines these are quite repetitive and dont vaty a lot in what you can find in there.
I just hope they can one day both return to item based zelda without breaking weapons AND have open worlds that let you explore lots of small little secrets
ill be honest i hate the weapon system in botw and totk.
If botw had real dungeons it would have been perfect.
LOL I should be annoyed that you put yourself everywhere in the game world, but it actually became quite comical 😂
I get people feel many similarities between BOTW and TOTK, but it adds way more then most sequels today. Look at Spiderman 2 on ps5, or God of War Ragnarok LOL. TOTK is a masterpiece compared to those. I still had a blast with TOTK. There are things better in BOTW but TOTK mastered that formula and what I appreciate the most is that anything is optional. You can play the game without shrines, all regions have their own story too, many gameplay loops to keep the game fun. Yes, they could have been more creative with the boss cutscenes, offer another skill than just auto-build. The puzzles could be harder and bosses far more challenging, but they managed to include all BOTw dlc and make everything more organic- like beating the bosses in the Depths again. The depths also have more story if you choose to explore. Also what did people expect in the Skies? The Zoni have been extinct for thousands of years?!!!! I love the old games but most people are stuck in the past! These new games are far more replayable than the old ones. I think the only mistake that Nintendo does, is lowering the difficulty of everything to just streamline things for everyone- Mario Wonder was the absolute worst in this regard! TOTK has ok difficulty since some enemies can scale up, but the main bosses are not as creative and challenging to defeat. The older games had some better puzzles but once you figure it out, it’s harder to come back. I hope they remake Ocarina of Time but create deeper combat (even over Elden Ring) but keep the atmosphere of the classic. But Nostalgia is killing gaming too, let Nintendo be creative but let’s make noise so that they make games for hardcore experienced players too- at least by adding more difficulty levels! Anyway, I don’t get why people compare BOTW when these two games are one game one story! It’s the almost perfect remake of Ocarina- a kid Links part before Ganon gets to power and Adult Link part. Also TOTK has awesome OOT references-Zelda as Shiek, or Ganon as Zelda, Shadow Ganon, Frox as Dodongo, etc. the only thing I agree with you is that I am also missing at least a few secret Items with unique skills. Overall TOTK is almost perfect and people should appreciate more the things it does right than the things it does differently or not extremely well, because this game was released almost flawless! Look at every game today getting constant bug fixes, dlc’s, patches…., this game dwarfs most other AAA games and I loved it! The only thing that could beat it, would be a unique remaster of Ocarina Of Time and Majoras Mask together in 1 game!
i definitely agree that it adds a lot to the previous game, and although the map and general assets are the same, the building system alone would make it deserving of being an adequate sequel. That being said the bosses, the temples, the general world and towns are all significantly improved from its predecessor.
My issues aren't with the games status as a sequel, but more in that the shrine system itself, along with the general openness of every facet of the game causes exploration fatigue. I think the game is great, i just would love to see some of the stuff i talked about change in future instalments.
in the end though I am very glad that they branched out and innovated the stale formula though!
Overall a good video, but there were a few bothersome unsubstantiated statements, like...
"TOTK's temples were an improvement over BOTW's Divine Beasts". In what respect? You immediately went on to say they're still too open, so what did they improve? Aesthetics? I would actually argue that the Divine Beasts (and I'm not defending those either, they're still bad) are actually more spiritually accurate to classic Zelda dungeons than they are, solely because TOTK's temples are just the Divine Beasts without a central control mechanism. Those mechanisms brought a unifying throughline to the beasts, which is something classic dungeons usually had, just in a different way. Without them, dungeons just became 4-5 shrine puzzles on platforms. Literally, in the case of the Water Temple.
I wouldn't call TOTK a masterpiece or objectively fantastic, either. Hell, calling even BOTW the former is a tough call now considering how many people think TOTK invalidates its existence, and the fact that BOTW has left an unstable legacy behind with its sequel being such a derivative flop. Although then you have games like Elden Ring that are clearly inspired by it but do its stuff just so much better. So maybe its legacy isn't so unstable? It's certainly been usurped, though. Hell, Elden Ring might be about to win a second GOTY award while TOTK didn't win any.
I guess that my intention with the “objectively fantastic” statement was more from a mechanical and tech perspective. The game is innovative and although it has its problems I do think it’s a good game.
Thank for pointing out the claim I made without expanding, I guess I didn’t realize I hadn’t explained it. I’ll keep an eye out for stuff like that in the future.
I’m Im still new to this stuff so it’s really helpful to have genuine criticism! When making a video it’s a bit easier to lose through lines when editing because of time.