Blue Tongue & Hyperflexion = Winning Ride in Grand Prix Dressage | Lottie Fry & Everdale
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- Опубликовано: 20 июл 2024
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Sign the petition to help The Alliance For Horse Welfare in Sport make necessary changes for better competition horse welfare:
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Can't stand it when people say you shouldn't comment on bad welfare practices just because you're not an Olympic dressage rider. I don't need to be a plumber to know when the toilet's blocked, I don't need to be a construction worker to know when a building's falling apart, I don't need to be an Olympic dressage rider to know when a dressage horse is clearly stressed.
The thing is, she IS an expert in horse stress. So it's even worse.
@@bananonymoussupreme3345but she doesn’t care
@@bananonymoussupreme3345It’s incredibly sad. It’s obvious how they all want fame, attention and money, which is enough for them to be able to do such inhumane and abusive things to the horse in order to achieve such things…
@@mirrepoix thank you
Detta bet han använder ser man tydligt är både mkt fel placerat samt för högt upp placerat och sp spånt så hans tunga tappar färgen de är fan hemskt. Min syster rider dressyr men hon kör inte detta träna då hon inte känner något av de sitter så bra på hennes häst och känner av att hästen inte mår bra av tränset .
I trained in Germany for three years and got my papers. I was very lucky to have bosses who were very correct. When I went for the State exam in Münster we had long discussions regarding all of this. I was there in 93 and Nicole Uphoff and Rembrant were the flavour of the year. He was ridden in rollkur because he was very thoroughbredy and spinny. Then came Anky and then came the thigh block saddles. With the thighblock saddles you don't have to learn to ride, you put your foot in the stirrup and raise the heel so that you lock yourself into the saddle. When we rode in the old fashioned saddles you had to have legs on and you massaged the horse's sides and the horse went forward into the hand. This does not happen with the thigh block saddles. You have to kick and pull. With no real forward impetus of course your horse is behind the bit. The FEI also rewrote the book that tells you what is what. There were descriptions of the horse's profile 'approaching' the vertical NOT on the vertical. The trot was also described working trot is when the horse is relaxed and in a frame and the hind hoof steps INTO the print left by the front foot. The medium trot is when the hind hoof steps over by a hoof length or perhaps a touch more rather than stepping into the print left by the front foot. The EXTENDED trot is when the hind foot really oversteps by 25 to 30 cm and the horse must also stretch his nose(his whole body really) in the direction of forward. The way they are being ridden now its like the horses are in side reins and the head never moves. This is so wrong!!! There is also the frame of the horse. There is relativ and aktiv basically relative and forced. The horse carries himself in a frame RELATIV to his progress. A young horse is not upright and collected and jammed together. (that is aktiv or forced) A young horse even in the show ring needs to be balanced but a little more long in his frame. When the horse gets more strength and learns to bring the hind quarters under him so to speak dropping his bum and activating the joints (in German this is called Hankenbeugung) THEN the neck of the horse naturally comes up. You achieve this with transitions in and out of a gait and within the gait by lengthening and shortening. I watched Dujardin riding a Canadian horse trying to get his neck up. She grabbed the reins and kicked. Bullshit. To get a horses neck up you have to get his bum under him. God but this is all so horrendous nowadays. The piaff is not supposed to be a bouncy kind of thing. It is supposed to show the horse is ready for Levade training and can take the weight of the body more on the hind end. The hind hoof should be lifted and the horse holds the weight of his body, he should show real Hankenbeugung. Thats the hind end of the horse and for the front end of the horse the EARS must always be the highest part of the horse. When you are stretching the horse (the chewystretchy circle) the nose should almost touch the dirt. We used to say looking for change in the arena. So many good times. The building blocks of dressage are takt anlehnung losgelassenheit schwung geraderichten versammlung. Translate: rhythm, frame, relaxation, push power, straightening, collection. Its all so skewed right now. I don't ride anymore (I'm old and fat) I don't go to shows anymore to watch and I don't teach anymore. Its disgusting to see what is now against what was. Also our horses regardless of level of dressage followed the plan for everyone. Monday was rest day, Tuesday was dressage (bucking day!!) Wednesday was jumping day, even just grids and low fences. Thursday dressage and Friday we practiced Kur. Saturdays Sundays was a show or hacking out or something. It was changed up. I would like to say more but I think thats all the word vomit I'm going to inflict on you. Thank you for reading and stick up for the horses.
excellent reply
My favorite saddle is an ancient barnsby pony club saddle no rolls anywhere even hardly any skirt .natural balance for horse and rider is essential. I commented on that video
Schade, dass sie ihr Wissen nicht mehr weiterreichen in dem sie als Trainer tätig sind. Ich habe vor 2 Jahren (ein bisschen später im Leben) das reiten angefangen und dann vor einem Jahr die Dressur. Es ist nicht leicht gute Trainer zu finden.
ja verstaendlich Ich bin in Canada jetzt meine Heimat. @@nicolek9839
@@pixie706 Schulteis and other masterz rode in saddles like that as did I. You can feel the horse more
I saw this live and was shocked at the high marks she got for this preformance. It is appalling that the FEI allows and rewards this training and preformance. Where is the welfare they write so nicely about in their code of conduct
The FEI is an animal abusing organization
I was always put off by Lottie Fry’s tests and very suspicious of her team’s training practices. When they did a stable tour of their property I was even more suspicious of the fact that they showed no pastures or paddocks and how every horse was stalled. I haven’t followed the FEI recently, especially dressage given how awful a lot of tests are on livestreams and how the judges are intentionally ignoring the abuse, meanwhile the FEI constantly posts highlights of high scoring tests where the horse are always in pain and stressed, all the while the white knights defend them in the comments against anyone rightfully speaking up about it. This video is sadly unsurprising for her, but very needed. It’s disgusting that top riders- especially Lottie who’s won multiple times and is heavily promoted by the FEI as one of the best- uses hyper flexion. The FEI’s inaction and active promotion of her and similar riders is an endorsement of abuse to audiences both inside and outside the sport and industry. Thank you for the educational videos and for having a platform that promotes R+ training and the importance of horse welfare beyond the arena!
I saw that stable tour too, and wasn't happy with what they showed. There were a ton of comments asking about the turnout situation, but no answers last I checked.
I found the property on google maps (Van Olst Sales), and the paddocks shown are... interesting. There's 30 individual paddocks on the property that I can see, and as far as I can tell, there's at least 59 horses on the property currently (23 stallions, 18 mares and 18 foals). Possibly even more than this, since they state in the video that they buy and produce around 110 foals per year. The paddocks they show vary in size, from being pretty average size to being no bigger than a stall. I think it's safe to say that the turnout they get is pretty poor.
Just to point out too, you can actually see Everdale stick his tongue out right in front of the camera during that tour (he seems to have a habit of doing that, all the better for us :') ) and his tongue was bright pink. Not grey like it was during his grand prix.
As an old lady who started studying and training in dressage under a German Riding Master followed by a Chilean Riding Master in the 70’s - I agree with you whole heartedly that I see many FEI horses behind the vertical. I never competed at that level - but I had happy horses. It pleases me for you to be speaking out 👍
They are on the forehand as well many of them. Go for classic Spanish riding school training. It takes time and patience to develop a horse to do these tests. Pushing a 5 year old to do this level collection is disgusting and abusive. Even if they could handle it physically, mentally they cannot.
I honestly don’t understand how people willingly hurt their horses.
Money fame prestige power.
They don't love their horses. What they are after is money and glory. Massive ego, no compassion !
Let's be honest they don't care about horses. I'd be surprised if they even liked horses.
$$$
The tail is also really disturbing because it looks so limp and false. Dressage hub also pointed this out. Almost no dressage horses have braided tails and this was the first time it was braided. Coincidence. I think not.
I think the tail has a weighted extension. He really wants to thrash it but can't .
As a total novice in the dressage world I noticed the tail braid too and wondered why?
@@ridingforfreedomranch-tamm1521 I read somewhere it's speculated they injected some type of nerve numbing liquid into his tail bone to keep him from whishing it, and the braid is to hide the puncture mark?
@@mall_grab I wouldn't be surprised. There was a show awhile back about dark ways to make money and one of the folks on there would be hired by different large riders and trainers to unalive their horse for the insurance money once the horse isn't useful anymore. The guy used electric shock on the internal back end of the horse and when the vet would show up later to examine the horse, it just looked like the horse died due to colic, so the insurance comes rolling in.
@@AnarchoSharkthis is so horrifying!!!! So very sad!
It truly is devastating to see the state of modern dressage compared to classical dressage. The whole point of dressage was to bring the horse up to their full potential, to strengthen their bodies so they could perform a piaffe and eventually airs above the ground. Now it's about breeding for flashy movement and then cutting corners and cranking in the horse's head to "collect" them. Everdale can't even stretch down and out into the contact, the most basic of foundations. The poor horse looks utterly miserable. I just can't understand it.
I agree! I only enjoy watching lower level dressage. Those horses are still looking happy and healthy while competing. ❤
Last I heard from a trusted source it takes about 2years of training a horse to properly "collect"
It doesn't involve pulling the head back by the jaw like a crossbow.
Thank you so much for making a video about this! I'm frankly disgusted over the whole situation, and the more it gets talked about, the better. Huge props to the audience member that recorded the first clips - they probably didn't even know it, but they've massively helped to demonstrate the pain face that Everdale was displaying which was much harder to see on the FEI's official video.
I always knew Lottie Fry was using hyperflexion. I was told to do more research by RUclips commenters, but I don't need to do more research because it's right in front of my eyes
Right💯💯
The horse's busy is not moving freely and his movements are very stiff. Good dressage does not look like this. What is with this severe looking bit?
This is abuse clear and simple! Same as the Big Lick!! Come on people, change is needed!! 😢
At least you acknowledge "the big lick',that is cruelty and then some. This IS NOT anywhere near it
I don’t follow dressage anymore, but looking at this horse I can see the same issues Salinero or Totilas showed. This means the sport is still at where it was 15 years ago. And that’s a bit scary, because I’m starting to think they care 0% about the horse.
Not going to lie I don’t know anything about Dressage but a horse’s body language never lies.
Exactly. Me too, I'm willingly ignorant of these horse sports because I don't practice any competitions. It hurts to watch horses silently scream
People like Alizee Froment (who formerly competed internationally in FEI dressage), are proving through their liberty training, that bridles and saddles are not necessary to achieve the proper head/neck carriage, a perfect passage, piaffe, lead changes or ANY movement/behavior you might ask of your horse. These people highlight the utter ridiculousness of ANY argument from the FEI and their defenders.
I absolutely agree,, people simply don't teach basic knowledge ..and it's seems when they do have it they skip using it ..presenting such young horses in such high levels is popular ,, but very suspicious..as the process of building the level of skill and physical strenght needed is not reached at such a young age ...thankyou for your very informed comment ,, its very valuable content impelled me to reply ...thankyou ...
My first dressage trainer said that I should be able to do EVERYTHING and maintain proper head/neck carriage while on the buckle, with complete slack in the reins. And I 100% agree.
Can confirm. I don’t use a bit and I don’t do whatever she’s doing here, it’s so unnecessary
Saddles are for balance and brideles are for control so those are necessary gut things like the blue tounge are a disgrace
I RESCUED MY HORSE HE WAS A DRESSAGE CHAMPION AND HE HAS SOOOO MUCH DAMAGE ILL NEVER LOOK AT THE SPORT THE SAME THANK YOU FOR BRINGING AWARENESS ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Yes they start to grow bones in they're kneck because of the head being pulled to the chest with roll kur 😢😢😢😢 😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
@@TammySaj-zm6kr so sad breaks my heart thankfully he is in my care and will never have to deal with that again!
I remember when I was a child first starting to draw horses (2009ish) and of course I wanted to draw a ‘pretty’ horse with an arched neck. I used to put the head behind the vertical but could never get it to look right. I obviously was influenced by these dressage riders putting their horses behind the vertical and your video has just reminded me of my early drawings (6.26 is the clip that most reminded me of my crappy drawings). I can just imagine the amount of young children/teenagers/adults who are influenced by this to put their own ponies and horses behind the vertical.
I ride dressage and I think they need to bring in the "snaffle bits only" rule they have for the lower levels. Up to Elementary level is snaffle bits only. I honestly think this should extend to the higher levels. More impressive too pulling off advanced moves without the extra control of the double bridle
ruclips.net/video/R0Gw655QA7k/видео.html
exhibit A
Yes! I couldn't agree more. I enjoy watching lower-level dressage because the horses are so much more content. ❤
This won't fix the underlying problem, though, which is that these riders think that doing this to their horses is okay. Hyperflexion is cruel regardless of what tool is being used to perform it.
That said, I hate the fact that only double bridles can be used in higher dressage levels. I long for the day that rubber bits, snaffles, and bitless bridles are allowed in high level dressage.
@@Aimee0206 You would struggle to keep a horse hyperflexed without the poll pressure from the pellem/double bridle though but I do agree
@@TheRach11There's an old photo of a horse being kept in a hyperflexed position with a piece of string. Where there's a will, there's a way unfortunately.
If not looking at his face, even if you didn't know about the pain scale, the tension within his neck is very apparent. Ugghh. That poor horse. I can't believe those signs are being overlooked for points. 😢
This is awful. There are too many hyperflexed and lame horses winning and moving up the levels. I don't compete anymore. I now ride bitless and bridleless. Horses don't deserve to be treated the way they are too often treated, and this applies to all disciplines. I'd rather stay home and have a happy, healthy horse.
Me too. ❤
I show images/videos like this to my non-horsey friends and they can even tell this is wrong. Pain and distress looks like pain and distress, and horses are very clear with their facial expressions, so there's just no valid excuse for this being permitted. At this point my faith in the FEI ever doing something is almost non-existent, but seeing people like you push against it and raise awareness gives me some hope.
Are high level sports really about anything more than “that’s an expensive, shiny horse,” because I’m starting to doubt it.
Seems to be rich people's children's sport. I believe most of those riders don't even like horses, but it was riding or tennis. Sounds harsh but who can torture a horse even under instruction day in and day out?
yessss shelby thank you for covering this!!!! this performance shocked me, money really makes the sport go round
I don't know how that free walk could get any marks. I don't think the horse dropped their head at all. I wonder if it even can. Poor thing. You made many great points in this.
Well said. I think most English riders don't know what a loose rein is. Always the contact on the bit nonsense
It’s not a free walk it’s an extended walk. They don’t stretch down in that movement. You loose marks if they do drop their head. Unlike the free walk where long and low stretch is the desired outcome.
This horse is so beautiful. I have never noticed a horses ears pointed outwards like that. Precious boy is stressed.
Dressage judges should call out "stop your presentation" and ask mistreating riders to leave the arena. They don't ! They are compleasant with animal torture ! When will this finally change ???
The judges support the sport and are paid to continue giving awards to riders and stables
He also swishes his tail constantly in older videos, but they resolved that by braiding in some over encumbering hair extensions
A lot of people seem to think that horses who have pain/stress related grimaces are just concentrating hard, or that the ears to the side are just the horse listening to the rider/thinking, even if the tongue is blue and they are foaming excessively. These behaviours shouldn't be normalised, but even in lower level shows I've seen extremely stressed horses, and horses ridden around the ring with their chins nearly to their chests (who won!). Maybe the sport deserves to die if we can't treat the animals involved properly
More people need to talk about the tail, as well. It's super rare for Dressage people/riders/etc to braid the tail but the one time we see it in the mainstream, the tail is also limper than a hot dog on a hot Georgia morning?? It definitely FEELS like that is no coincidence...not to discredit any of the other pain signals, poor horsemanship, and welfare issues on display (of which there are clearly many) but it FEELS like the "Fry team" explicitly numbed his tail (then braided it in an attempt to cover up?) so that he at least wouldn't also sport the sadly expected helicopter/swishy tail famous in most high-level Olympic horses...
Which would show up load and clear in a swab and why would you use prohibited drugs on that horse at that level where there is a high probability that the horse will be swabbed.
@@mark4973 There are a few ways to numb a horse tail. As far as I'm aware, the FEI unbanned alcohol in 2018-2019 so nerving the tail (injecting alcohol into the nerves at the dock of the tail) is definitely possible...not to mention there are procedures that could do it permanently (I'm not to sure on those being the case HERE but they are very prevalent in saddleseat...). All I know is it's a bit too coincidental that the ONE time we see a big/upper level dressage horse with a braided trail, it's also a limp biscuit mess...
I feel the same about dog training. Shocking your dog because it’s easier to train them with shock collars is unacceptable. We learn new things about animals and we should change bad behaviors and bad tools. There is no proper use of shock collars. I have said sorry to my dogs that came before and have changed my training methods as I learned … it is hard to have the patience to train with all positive reinforcement but it’s definitely worth it.
Agree wholeheartedly! ❤
I agree with shock collars being inhumane but not E collars. An e collar has given my dog so much more freedom. I did nothing but positive reinforcement and redirecting her but she wouldn’t stop chasing my horses, being a corgi and all. For hers and my horses safety I had to use an e collar to get her to stop chasing them, nothing else worked but there’s a right and wrong way to use it. It’s a training tool and you don’t just zap them you start on the lowest setting and beep or vibrate them first. It’s essentially like a tap on the shoulder. If it wasn’t for the e collar she would’ve been tethered all the time. She’s a happy little dog, and gets to go cattle herding which is what she was bred for.
Using pain to train an animal might be easier in the short term, but in the long term it only causes more problems
@@egosling I don’t use pain, that’s the thing, e collars are not like shock collars. It has worked out great in the long term. She rarely ever wears it now, it’s just a way to get her attention. It was that or she’d be tethered 24/7. She listens great, responds well to the whistle and gets lots of praise.
@@BK-is5fj sorry I didn't mean to make it seem like I was accusing you! I was agreeing with the original comment. I 100% understand what you mean.
Yes! I saw this watching the Mechelen GP. Thank you for covering this!! The tail rose so many red flags! They avoided close ups of the horse on purpose I think.
I can only say I prefer Charlotte Dujardin's riding and wonder how Everdale would fare under her riding.
The way that horse drools on itself is very concerning. I think I remember once that my favourite pony drooled excessively, and that was looked into. It's not normal. A little might occur, but this horse's chest is getting wet. The pony was ridden in a hackamore in the last years before her retirement.
Thank you so much for making "noise" about these practices! Keep it up and never stop until change comes!
I agree completely. You aren’t alone. It wasn’t like this 30 years ago. The riders that knew how to ride correctly and classically are gone or retired. I used to coach kids and ride dressage and rode with our bronze olympians. Modern dressage had ruined classical dressage. We had the pan am games here and our barn hosted the SA team. When the captain got on his horse and started riding everyone was so impressed. I felt like throwing up. The horse was in rolkur. No one seemed to care or know. I don’t want to ride or teach anymore. It’s got to be about the horse’s comfort first. If they aren’t comfortable you are riding incorrectly. Competition had been allowed to ruin this beautiful classical one time art that has been around since the beginning. If the FEI wanted to stop this they could. Stop hiring judges that will give high marks when horses are being forced or behind the bit. Sadly Charlotte here in their video is riding a hyper flexed horse and is behind the vertical. Sad to see. It’s not ok. Good for you for taking this on. The one rule for me from my favourite coach was never ask for more than they can do. I agree with every word. The art is gone now. 😊
Finally someone that speaks out!! Thank you for doing all you do!! Don't stop!! Keep it up!!❤
Hooray for you! The trend of hyperflexion began way back in the 80s. I wrote a lengthy letter to Dressage & CT, which they published. The letter received scathing responses. The responsibility for INCORRECT riding ultimately falls at the feet of the judges for their rewarding such performances. I believe its largely financial - people spend outrageous sums for Euro-bred horses in order to win. Deprive the win, discourage sales. Go get'em, young lady!! 👍
Blessings to you for standing up!!!!!!!
I stopped watching dressage a while ago because I was so sickened by the pain and stress in the horses. It’s revolting that this abuse is not only tolerated but also rewarded!!! They are digging their own graves. I hope everyone will boycott this sport until real change is implemented and they take responsibility for what they have encouraged and allowed!!!
Thank you for your video and very honest and accurate comments on this ride u posted. I had the same reaction but questioned myself . Unbelievable how judges reward this very tight rein and nervous mouth with blue tongue and reward her with winning scores! Thank u for having the courage to speak out on your platform!
I'm so glad you made a video about this I was watching it yesterday.
Hello! Thanks for reviewing Lotties ride. I have a grand prix mare and she's been teaching me as I go up the levels in dressage. I've also been in the jumping world, and before that I honestly did bareback riding and just did casual riding like enjoying trails. So I've been in different 'circles' if you would. Something I think is important is to make sure to not throw all dressage riders into a category of 'they're all bad and do x y and z' because its really offensive to people who don't do what Lottie was doing.
I think we should hold the specific rider accountable, not lump them together. Also the FEI does check your tack before and after tests to make sure you're not using prohibited equipment and checks fittings (like if something is too tight they will disqualify your score) and if they catch you with your horse gaping I have seen riders get HUGE and JUSTIFIED markdowns for all their movements. For example if your horse is gaping during the passage between two letters, they will give you a 3 for a score which is 100% deserved. That almost ensures you'll get a shitty score like a 50% and prevents them from qualifying for major events. It makes me happy that the FEI and USDF have added these rules and penalties. Personally I think we should roast the specific riders for doing things like this and then the riders that don't do it get them on your side!! That way you have more backing. Also, judges play favorites and they are SO biased. They are harsh on adult amateur riders that are still learning but let big names like Lottie Fry do whatever and give them amazing scores. Which is 100% bullshit. If anything I expect professionals to be judged harsher BECAUSE they should know better. The FEI and USDF instills these rules but also on the other hand judges are opinionated, biased, and sometimes follow their own rules. Some judges only have two years of education or experience or don't even know how to ride themselves.
I think the issue is rooted in education. The riders need to learn better practices. These big name riders need to be called out. The FEI and USDF need to continue adding rules and regulations that are strict, AND they need to keep their judges in line and make sure their judges are not biased and ENFORCE these rules and regulations. Disqualify riders and punish riders that do stupid shit like this and give the good scores to the people that aren't riding like this. Who cares if their name is big and popular! Like I said, ROAST the specific rider that is doing it.
The FEI endorses and defends their judges opinions. I witnessed it in person where one of their 5* judges outwardly defended LDR and they made claim to be enforcing rules to an extent they absolutely do not. They were just at a big hyperflexion welfare meeting back in Sept and then continue to have judges rewarding rides like this, platforming the highlights on their pages and doing absolutely nothing to stop it.
The riders do need to be held accountable but the system enables them.
In no part of this do I lump all riders together. Modern dressage IS a disgrace because the riders who don’t do this aren’t being rewarded for it, these rides are the ones that are winning and that is the issue.
The people who don’t do this aren’t getting recognition and wins to the same extent which means a precedent is being set to encourage this
@@Milestone-Equestrian thank you for the great comment. This conversation is so needed! Like I said please keep roasting these riders who do this. Just don’t forget about the other riders who don’t do it and fight from the inside. At our barn we have a zero tolerance policy and the dressage world definitely talks about the bad ones and a good amount of dressage riders avoid the bad ones as much as possible. Most of these judges are so uneducated it’s so sad. Their bias and their need to give blind high scores to people who ride like this.. ugh it hurts. But then they’ll roast a 1st level rider who is just learning how to sit the trot. 💀 It’s abysmal. The show grounds I go to disqualifies riders and murders their scores for bad riding like this regardless of level or standing, so I show there!
Thank you so much for all of your educational videos!! It’s truly horrifying to see what is passing as the highest form of equestrian sport in this day and age. It breaks my heart that people abuse horses in this manner, but also that it is held up before the world as the top performances. It is absolutely shameful!!! I have signed, supported and shared the petition to end this cruelty!!! Thank you again!!
And now you know why, I let my FEI credentials lapse!! Because no one was LISTENING from someone who was on the inside either!! Your friend, the Retired Paramedic, a S&R Dog and Handler Team Trainer and Horse Trainer in Ontario, Canada, Jenn 💖 🇨🇦
Proud of your actions Jenn!
@catherineniew7457 Thank you. I absolutely HATED that they wouldn't listen to someone who was an experienced rider who had rode in FEI Recognized shows and saw ALL of this BS!! And the stewards and other judes just turned a blind eye to it all. So I let it lapse. I couldn't keep hitting my head against that brick wall anymore. Jenn 💖
I wish more trainers had the wisdom, compassion and integrity you clearly have!
@readridelearn8635 Thank you. So do I!!! There are a few out there, but you really have to look hard and ask for references to other horses they have trained. Talk to those owners. If they are unwilling to give you a list of at least 10 people, then they aren't worth the effort of hiring. Unless you watch them with their own horses for a few weeks, coming at different times, and observe them. That will tell you a lot about how they handle horses. Because they might just be starting out. But I started out with an established school, and I had the backing of my riding instructor, plus my students' parents, to vouch for me. Jenn 💖
I was groom for highest level both in jumping and dressage. Belive me, rollkur and dressage riders behind the scenes is nothing in compare to what riders do to their horses in jumping. Just in jumping you can not see it on arena...
He’s not collected one second of that test.
That piaffe is also not a piaffe but the circus monkey version called Balancé. Awful, just awful.
Yikes! That does NOT look like a winning ride and poor Everdale looks miserable. Makes me sad. 😢
I wish he would drop and roll
In reference to free walk, in GP dressage there is an extended walk so the horse is supposed to maintain contact (not free walk) but obviously not behind the vertical. The judges absolutely do penalize tension and overflexion (and even in her scores) but my guess is that you would like to see them penalize it more severely than they are. The one comment I can make is that in modern horse breeding horses are bred to naturally have a tendency to overflex. I have a 4yr old dutch bred horse that I started myself, and from time to time he will put his head into his chest completely on his own without any contact with the bit, just happily trotting along, then head goes to the chest for a few strides, then back out, all on his own on a loose rein. I've never experienced anything like it...
Definitely interested in your other videos for behavior / grimace scale ect. I'm always up for learning a bit more about reading my Equine companion better.
Knowledge is power to do right by the horse. It is a tragedy that organizations say one thing and do another despite the facts that are available to them.
I may not be a high level competitor but I could easily see with out the close up stills the grimace on the horse's face.
In tune with your hose also means being aware of their needs emotional state and physical state - not just their obedience.
If the organization did not reward the practice of over flexation there would not be the incentive for riders to do it....
If a horse is properly using their hind quarters, they will naturally collect. So many Dressage horses are not using the power in their hind quarters - hence hyper flexion
Proper dressage training should be for the benefit of the horse in the short and the long run. When competitive urges override emphasizing the horses welfare, changes must be made.
Well stated, totally agree with all you have stated.
12:30 i think all we have to do is look at the faces of horses who are doing jumping shows or cross country courses….they’re very focused, extreme athletes, in the middle of very challenging tests, both physically and mentally, and they do Not show the same levels of stress as so many of these dressage horses.
Thank you Shelby for this detailed video. I guess people just become used to seeing horses ridden like this and it's disgusting that the judges fail to recognise the immense suffering of this poor horse.
Jfc that tongue is setting off every alarm bell in my vet tech brain.
What is causing the tongue to lose circulation? Is it the over-flexion? The pressure of the bits? The super tight noseband? I've seen terrible riding up close (with the use of a double bridle or a tongue tie) way too many times and have never witnessed a blue tongue. An official should have taken this rider or any other exhibiting a blue tongue out of the ring.
The use of tongue ties caused us to quit racing along with excessive use of lip chains & twitches! At 1 time we rode a well accustomed young horse at our local, thankfully, defunct 1 mile track with just a halter & lead. No bit needed! Galloped him on the training track until the outrider threatened to fine us if we did not use a bit. Later when we found out they would also not allow us to ride him without shoes we quit entirely.
@@frederickbooth7970 okay. Just saying in the years I spent at the track where tongue ties are used I did not see a blue tongue making this FEI competition footage all the more alarming.
The track here allows bare foot horses. No idea about bitless riding, often those regulations are in place because of liability. The insurance companies and lawyers need to be educated for change.
@@blaisearwyn3405 Agree the video of the FEI competition is very upsetting! We have seen many horses here in Oregon with lip chains & tongue ties that were not needed. We have also seen tongues that were cut from too tightly tied ties. If a horse does not prance & dance a little when going to the track to gallop in am or post in pm the horses spirit is most likely gone from our experience of many years which is a sad thing to see or experience as a rider.
ABUSE abuse Außerdem of a noble creature how dare a person abuse a horse that way and is göttingen away with this misserable abusive performance?????Shame on this women!!!!
@@blaisearwyn3405hyperflexion, tongue ties, cruel bits. And judges who award prizes for those who abuse the horses
You are very right in all that you were saying.
Do you have any examples of beautiful and harmonious dressage? Would be lovely to have that image so we can compare.
Old videos of the Vienna school of riding. Podalski was the master. (I'm not sure of the spelling)
And Reiner Klimke of course!
Uta Graf. She's wonderful. Her horses live OUT---they also jump, trail ride, etc, and yet are Grand Prix dressage horses.
You can see the horse is not having fun, why doesn't the rider realize this? People should realize the neck and spine are all connected and stress affects the whole horse. People just don't WANT to know how the horse feels cuz he's just an object, sad...
After I watched this I googled Dr. Reiner Klimke and watched one of his rides (randomly chosen). The horse’s mouth was closed, he was slightly out of the vertical and his movements were soft and relaxed. His ears were also floppy. What has happened???😢
money. Equines are big money. In the 80's we'd sew little carpet tacks in the nosebands to help keep their noses where we wanted them and not gaping their mouths against the bit. I'm sure its still done and based on this video I'd bet my paycheck same is done with this horse which is why the nose is back so far even on a looser rein. Want an Arab or Morgan's tail higher? grated Ginger in anus does wonders for tail carriage, nearly as good as cutting the tendon and tail setting in Saddlebreds, though we tail tendon cut in stock breeds to keep that tail still as well. Lye on the fetlocks for big lick and saddlebreds, also get rattle chains too, as well as ridiculous hooves and shoeing. The huge thigh block saddles to keep the rider in position hilarious, I don't even have that big of swells on my working western stock saddle, and i certainly never had them as a kid on my dressage saddle, i actually had to know how to ride. Modern riders most of em are horribly taught, if i was hanging on the mouth my trainer would have whacked me a good one with a whip. FEI makes big money, Olympics make big money and all these riders make a fortune on sponsors. Anyways now that you know the tricks I learned and saw as a junior rider in the 80's and 90's...and have been going on for as long as horse competition brings in money...blood for blue ribbons. Usually the horse's. And no I am not proud to know and have ridden horses that were tricked up, I didn't know better then, everyone was doing it it seemed, but I certainly learned and know better since then.
Heartbreaking
Right On!
I totally agree with you x
I saw a clip of this ride and the same ride some time ago. The second clip shows the tail is not braided, and he is swishing a lot. (A LOT)
Apparently, braiding the tail super tight prevents swishing the tail, as the pull of hair makes moving it uncomfortable.
Check it out there is a big difference between both clips.
Also, this higher carriage of the head is now the hallmark of modern dressage.
The nose bands way too tight, in effort to control... ridiculous, if the work creates tension, tying the jaw does fix the tension/resistance. It will show up in the back, the neck, the throat latch.
But hey, if it wins medals,.who cares...
It is not an intelligent, logical, and compassionate approach to training horses.
Andre van Seenus
This is so sad. I don't ride dressage, but I used to love watching it - including the Olympic riders. This type of riding is so hard on the horse. And awarding this kind of riding is not okay. I hope all of the notable federations take note of this in all seriousness and make the changes that are so necessary to the discipline.
I think is way more important to look at the long time effects this type of riding has on the horses. The longevity of These horses ist miniscule compared to the Past. Excluding the psychological effects, the physical effects are was more detrimental. I was a bet money on the fact that this horse has a swolen ear glant from the sliver that can't be transported outside from the abnormally tight neck. It is very Common to have six to seven year old horses with Bad legs Not rideable pasture pets because of this riding. I see it all the time in the stables.
That so sad to see. And she was riding with 2 bits. So on top of all the pain there’s two bits. Wing yanked on. 😢😢😢
I hope that poor horse gets a thorough neck massage after that test. Gods, that must be so uncomfortable.
And let’s not ignore the fact that they’ve clearly attached a false tail to him! His natural tail is not so thick and he swishes it a lot, this heavier tail has stopped him doing that. It’s quite disgusting and I love dressage
false tails are very common practice in other disciplines and the are not cruel. Also, if anything, on the rare occasions a horse has taken any exception it was to swish the tail more.
@@mark4973 in dressage a swishing tail loses you marks because it’s a sign of tension. This heavier false rail stops him from doing that. It most definitely is cruel because as you know the tail is part of the spine
Couple of facts. In Australia you will be hard pressed to find a show horse who does not compete in a false tail and the cruelty, how where. I had a big ex galloper 16.2 who had his tail given a free Bob by a foal. From the moment he lost his tail; the swishing was non stop. With a regular size falsey considerably less stressful
@@mark4973 a couple of facts for you!!! Dressage is not showing, therefore attaching a tail for aesthetic reasons is pointless. Dressage is about working the horse in a supple harmonious manner and you are judged throughout the movements for this very quality. Each movement has a mark for the way of going, if the tail swishes throughout the test the judge will mark you down accordingly because it is a sign of tension. Therefore attaching a false very heavy tail to compete in dressage is purely to prevent the horse from swishing it and is masking the tension, If you care to look at previous videos of this horse with his natural tail you will see the clear difference. Attaching a false tail to a horse who has had its own tail bitten off and therefore can’t swat flies is a completely different scenario and is an act of kindness 🤣
@@anneleisebrown6850 Dressage is performance based, who knew🤔🙄
A couple of facts for you my dear. Your opinion is not a fact. You say attaching a tail for aesthetic reasons is pointless, an opinion. My opinion is that for some including myself, that i like to present myself and my horse as best i can. Adding hair to a scabby tail may not gain me a point but i take pride in what i do.
I love how when it suits your argument the use of a false tail can be kind, yet when you are against their use they are cruel.
Now here is a fact, a swishing tail "can be" a sign of tension. Don gooders like you jump on shit like that and go for the jugular. His horse is swishing its tail. The cruelty is unbearable. He should never be allowed to ride another horse.
If you were truly concerned about horse welfare you would not be on here banging on about "Correct Dressage" and using Animal Welfare as an excuse to accuse people of vile acts of cruelty. You may not use those exact words but you certainly infer it. PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE GUTLESS KEYBOARD WARRIORS.
Go and Google the "Soring of Tennessee Walking Horses" . That is cruelty at it's worst. WHERE ARE YOUR LOT? Oh yes, on social media masturbating their ego, defaming high profile people in the name of Animal Cruelty
When I competed, frothing at the mouth was a bad thing.
First comment!! Cannot wait for this vid!
Thank you for standing against this abuse so powerfully. It’s all about the money, start to finish. ALL training, no matter what kind, is supposed to enhance animal welfare, not detract from it. Good training leads to a supple, confident, relaxed horse. We see none of that in competition now. People don’t follow the basic training scale … Money has bastardized the sport to such a degree that we’re done. It’s dreadful to watch and extremely cruel.
Im dont know too much about dressage, but that bit after the Free Walk, was not deserving of such a high score. The horse's movements were so choppy and lacked fluidity. Which I think would be a result of his discomfort and stress.
At no point did i remotely think this ride represented harmony. FEI needs to get better judges and stewards that actually uphold their own rules and stop giving people such high scores for rides like this.
I’m seeing a good many top ranked dressage horses with peculiarly immobile tails- to the point where I wonder if they’re being given alcohol injections in the muscles around the tail. SOP for cutting horses, as my vet explained to me as I gaped at the series of tiny injections he was doing on a cutting horse (points off for tail swishing).
Everdale’s tail is far more immobile in the tempis (especially) than would seem normal even for the most cheerfully relaxed horse, when a vigorous movement of the tail goes with the change of bend & balance. Not as completely paralyzed as Carl H’s Van der Veen in another test I watched - can there be degrees of falsely produced relaxation in the tail?
Karen Rohlf's dressage naturally does a good job promoting natural dressage.
Virtue signalling. Exactly. Compare this horse's body language with Valegro's world record Free Style. This is painful.
Valegro was also 'reined in' heavily by his rider. The horses heads don't move! At all!
I disagree. DuJardin's hands are light and follow.@@NordeggSonya
Does the horses head move like it should???No. I trained in Germany and I know what I am looking at. @@lesliemoiseauthor
@@NordeggSonya ok
Her hands used to be softer than they are currently but unfortunately with her new mount she is guilty of the same discoloured tongues and overflexed rides.
I have a suspicion that this horse is tongue tied.! I showed Morgan's when I was younger. They would tongue tie horses (Stallion's) that were hard to manage in show. Its NOT legal! I really think that's what you are seeing here 😞
What defines hyperflextion? Is it just being behind the verticale of is there more to it?
If you see these videos, you really ask this? What horse loves a forced neck like we see here? That is hyperflexion
@@arribaficationwineho32There’s no need to be rude to them, they were simply asking what exactly hyperflexion was, they really might not know what the word meant and they were asking a question. Questions are how we learn things.
To the OP: Hyperflexion is when a joint is flexed beyond its normal range of motion. Hope that makes sense.
@@BK-is5fj got it
Thank you.
I love this girl
I can't even watch this why doesn't the horses rebel so sad
Agree!!
What about bits?
Those of us who actually care for the welfare of horses seen and notice this in modern dressage since it's modern. It's really important we talk about this like non-stop, no matter the bad backlash. About the cherry picking, I've seen Charlotte Fry live in a 'training session' and it was the same image. I've also been to a minor competition in my country a few weeks ago, where athletes were aspiring to raise there points to get to international levels and it was the same image. This is a general problem and it's everywhere. The first alinea from the FEI document where also broken there. Riders got more points for hyeprflexion and it was clear they all tried to make it to higher points with forcing and punishing their horses for natural behaviors that resulted from pain, discomfort and resistance to the harsh aids. The judges didn't care about the major welfare issues displayed there. Keep on calling them out.
I signed the petition. And I commend you for speaking out on this issue. In my opinion, many of those who use horses in competition are oblivious to the horse's condition, and only interested in winning, especially if there is money involved. That goes for dressage, jumping, racing, polo, rodeoing, and western riding competitions. We need to improve in the way we look at animals, especially those in competition, and I would also add dog racing, bullfighting, cock & dog fighting, and even showing. Shameful how these animals are used & abused.
I used to enjoy watching higher level dressage. I have ridden and trained in this discipline for decades. I finally concluded one must have a million dollar horse, a top trainer on staff, facilities to beat the band, and unlimited funds or sponsorships to even get a whiff of air at this level. And this explains why there are such high scores given for very poor performances and training. The number of people who can afford this niche sport are few. So, like western pleasure, the judges have to reward the bad because that is all there is mostly. Someone has to win. If the real knowledgeable and kindly trainers refused to reward this junky riding the whole,sport would blow up and no one would have a nice happy day in the country at fine facilities all dressed up in their fancy clothes. It’s the MONEY stupid. Take away the rewards? No one would show.
Everdale is a spicy and nervous boy, but that is simply no excuse for how bad this test was. How bad she was riding him. The fact that this won, that this abuse was rewarded is just baffling to me. Everdale needs to be taken up by someone who can actually ride him the correct way, who can ease his anxiety without pulling.
I remember when this video first came out n I was looking forward to watching it but after the first minute of seeing how completely stressed and uncomfortable the poor horse was I had to stop watching. I agree totally with everything you're saying. The FEI must be made to adhere to their code of conduct and all their rules on horse welfare to ensure that the horses comfort is foremost in this sport..
Do you think there’s a difference in how she rides Everdale vs how she rode Glamourdale? I’m a dressage noob so I can’t really tell myself, but people are usually calling out the bad riding on Everdale and then there’s only praise and worship towards Glamourdale. Did she simply switch to bad practices in the last year or was it always like this, and no one noticed?
It makes me furious! The entire world is all about money, control and prestige nothing else.
I hate the cruel, unnatural carousel horse model that top dressage trainers produce and the FEI rewards. All the riders look like they are purposely driving with the emergency break on. Literally ruining beautiful animals for a form that doesn't function. You don't need hyper flexion to complete dressage moves, you don't need tight reins or a double bridle or spurs. Watch videos from the Vienna Riding Academy. Most of the time the second rein is loose, the horses are NOT behind the vertical in even the most advanced moves. The horses also flick their ears, swish their tails and nod their heads because those are normal communication behaviors and head nodding especially at a walk I'd something any sound horse should do. The Lipizzans new are stunning and I pray the Vienna Riding Academy never changes and tries to turn them into tortured, unatural carousel horses.
honestly i would love to do dressage but unless your willing to hurt our horse you dont win and im not willing to hurt my horse
How could someone do this to their horse 😭😭 I could never dream of hurting my horse 😭😭😭😭😭😭
The quick fix school of competitive dressage. No understanding of how a horse truly moves in balance, if you took the insane crank nose bands away every single horse would have its mouth wide open in protest. So much stress and tension, horrible to watch. And the judges reward this??
One of the base things (I think) is that the mandatory bit for high level dressage is just fundamentally flawed and should be changed. There's just- literally no need for that much bit
all about the money
Second Tortillas? ;>
Thank you so much for all your are doing to try and free the abusive horses in all disciplines specifically high end show horses like dressage, 3 day event, english and western classes, gaited horse events, rodeo has alot of abuse as well, and all other show or competition horses. The high end shows are loaded with abuse that even a novice can see but they dont seem to notice it. THis must STOP. NOW.. the horse has been abused for centuries and we should be able in this time to make it STOP FOREVER. BUt as always Money talks and nothing else matters. I say put a dressage bridle on the riders head and tighten it down as far as it will go and see if you dont see a rider with a look of panic on their face. What goes around comes around. GOd knows how his creatures are being treated by humans. IF the show fits wear it.
Vet here, if you really look at the horse's Tongue it's pink on the outer edges, if the horse was low on Oxygen the Tongue would turn Blue there first, then the inner part of the tongue is black, so is the foam coming out of the mouth, if you look at the details like the bit in the horse's mouth you would have seen that it's a BLACK rubber bit, that can cause a Horse's mouth and TONGUE TO BECOME BLACK OR EVEN TAKE ON A BLUE COLOR DEPENDING UPON HOW NEW THE BIT IS.
So as a vet are you here defending the pain face and hyperflexion? I’m going to doubt it’s a black bit as with double bridles rubber bits are extremely uncommon.
👍🏼
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Россия.
I have seen soooo much abuse in dressage. They always act and say it normal. Never felt normal to watch. I am so glad this is changing