Inmotion EUC Battery Cell Voltage Balancing, Yes/No?
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- Опубликовано: 12 мар 2023
- There's a rumor that Inmotion EUCs prior to the V13 don't have a battery cell balancing function.
In this video I'm analysing the rumor with superficial circuit analysis on V8, V8F, V10F, and V11, battery measurements on a 4000km old V11, experience with V10F charging behavior, discussion with an Inmotion engineer, and other arguments. 
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As always, the most clear and documented opinion in the realm of EUC. Thank you for all your contribution! 💙
Wow, thank you!
I love your voice. Sounds like a friendly robot.
Damn, busted! 🤣
You are a real hero, informing people of important information. Keep making awesome stuff!
Thanks, will do!
Exactly what i was looking for. Technical investigation seems to have cleared the balancing misinformation. Thank you for your time and expertise etc.
There is no shame for Adam to issue a correction video. And all of these companies should have PR teams in the west to deal with this.
Adam only stated that there is no passive cell balancing. Since the resistors on the V10F BMS are 1k ohms, there can't be passive cell balancing. This doesn't mean there couldn't be some other form of balancing.
Well, this convinced me enough that my inmotion v12ht indeed has a bms system and I don't need to worry.
To be exact, every wheel ever made has a BMS system of some kind. It’s just about which features the BMS system has. But yes, as long as you have good charging and discharging habits, you don’t need to worry. For more information on charging and balancing, check my 80% charging video.
Just found your channel. Thanks for your clarity. So so well explained!
I too, had a hard time believing that IM would leave out such an important, inexpensive feature. Glad you cleared things up.
Am so glad I discovered your very much appreciated channel and finally a clear and trustworthy content .Thank you for the effort and for clarifying many important subjects that are indeed often overlooked or even wrong--ly put. Thanks again and will always look forward to watching your channel with much attention. Respectfully, Rudy.
Thank you so much, Rudy!
Wonderful findings, especially since I own multiple Inmotion wheels! Thank you!
I hope this helped in not having to worry about owning Inmotion!
I was considering buying a V11 until I saw other information on RUclips alleging lack of passive cell balancing in InMotion EUCs. Then I started considering other options. So I'm glad that I came across your video that got my thinking back on track. I also previously got a lot out of benefit from watching your video on "80% charging, Good or Bad?" You have a way of clearly communicating technical information, in a practical and unbiased way. Thank you Mr. Elwood for being a reliable and helpful EUC content provider!
Now, since I am still interested in the V11 after watching this, here is perhaps an opportunity for you to confirm (or correct) some other information (or misinformation) that is out there on the V11. Some review clips (or the commenters to them) have stated that the V11 bearings are (or were?) a problem, and the motherboard has a higher failure rate than normal and should be visually inspected regularly to ensure it is not getting fried. Are you able to comment on these aspects of the V11 reliability?
Thank you! Glad you liked the 80% charging video, it has turned out to be one of my most popular ones. Really happy I can share what I know!
On the V11: The first batches didn’t have any bearing covers, so the failure rate was high. Mine included. They have however shipped the V11 with well working bearing covers for almost two years now, so it’s no longer an issue. The mainboard revisions are however not publicly known, but at some point the failure rate did seem to go down. Unfortunately, a visual inspection won’t do you any good. Usually there are no fried components even on the failed boards. And even if there were, they only fry when the board fails, not before. I wouldn’t hesitate for a second in buying a new V11, but like with all wheels, a reputable distributor is always worth the small extra cost.
I have 7000+ km on my V11. I planned on upgrading last year, but they simply haven’t made a wheel that would suit me nearly as well as the V11. If you ride a lot of hard off-road, the suspension rails will need to be replaced at some point, but they are cheap. Still, keep them clean or well waxed. Don’t use oil or grease, as they will collect dust and other particles which increase the wear rate.
Oh, and on not considering the V11 because of the no balancing rumor:
Go to the EUC forum and find out all posts you can about failed V11 battery packs. They are practically all about new batteries, so not related to balancing. And consider that the V11 was the second most used wheel in 2022 on EUC World. Several thousands of users. So the amount of aging battery failures should surely be all over the place and everywhere, right? Let me know if you find even a single post describing how their battery failed at over 5000km despite attempts to balance the pack.
@@mrelwood_EUC Thanks for taking the time to provide thorough replies to my questions. Perhaps keeping the suspension rails clean is good enough care but if not, is there a type of wax you could recommend?
I have only tried a few waxes as I don’t want to purchase different ones in hopes that one might work well. But out of the ones I’ve tried, simple candle wax works easily the best! I have the small ones that come in aluminum foil cups. One can of course buy pure paraffin wax as well, should be mostly the same stuff.
First I remove the outer suspension rails to get access to the black rails. I remove the aluminum cup from the candle and rub the candle on the wearing part of the rail while pressing quite hard, until there’s a decent layer of wax on the rail. I then rub the rail with my finger until I can feel the wax get soft. I then rub the sides and backsides of the rails with the excess wax that’s on my fingers. Sometimes I even wax the plastic slider guides on the removed rails.
There’s no danger of overdoing it, other than it can get a bit messy. Any excess wax can easily be cleaned up with rubbing alcohol.
@@mrelwood_EUC Thanks!👍
As an v12 owner
thank you so much for this video sir!
Agree with you 100%. Passive cell balancing is not some new high tech electrical wonder. It's very simple and necessary. I'm surprised Inmotion has not done more to snuff out this silly misinformation!
I fully agree. I don’t think they quite understand the consequences of the situation. I have tried to explain it to them a few times though. But I’m just a single member of public to them.
What you are doing is extremely valuable, keep it up.
Thank you, GoG! 😉
Thanks @MRelwood, usually common sense should suffice to identify false information. We should at least evaluate the source level of the information to avoid confusions. However, misinformation is abundant. I am glad you took precious time to put light where others just add darkness. Your contribution is so much appreciated. Many thanks
Thank you so much! I fully agree, misinformation has become a real issue.
Thanks Mr Elwood.. a great, clear and concise explanation as always… I really like your content and the way you present it. Unfortunately , in the EUC world there are many content producers who present themselves as technical experts, and then a few things come out…and you realise they actually know little more than I do..( me having an automotive and aeronautical engineering background..from years ago!). So, people be aware! Always check multiple sources of information, and cross check.
Exactly!
Thanks for your thorough investigation! I started to feel bad about my new V11 purchase after watching that Wrong Way video. The counterargument about poor translation is very convincing. I wonder if there are other aspects of EUC that are mistranslated.
There are, several. But I think we’ve succeeded in recognizing the most of them, which itself has taught the manufacturers to be more precise. But some things are surely still misunderstood.
Thank you for a professional view.
Excellent job. Thank you!
Once again a really great video, thanks for sharing what you have learned. We need to remember we are all learning, Adam "WrongWay” included, part of learning is making mistakes, owning and sharing our mistakes helps us all grow and builds a stronger community. Please keep making and sharing informative well explained videos. 😊
Thank you Scott! 😊👍
Kiitos hyvästä videosta!
Kiitos kiitos! 😄
Good information as always. Thank you
Thanks!
WW do not know anything about electronics, thank you for this video!!!
Good argument! I stand more on your side although there is no clear confirmation from IM of their cell balancing mechanism. WW is great but he benefits from "views" and controversial videos get more eyeballs. It makes absolutely no sense that any PEV company would NOT use cell balancing in these GIANT batteries but the intellectual argument does not mean it is the case in reality.
You are absolutely right. This video didn’t present as much actual proof for there to be balancing than proof to why the arguments of people who say that there is no balancing are wrong. “Counter-arguments” might be a better wording.
@@mrelwood_EUC So, you are saying that the certitude of WrongWay that Inmotion doesn’t use cell balancing is wrong, but, in the same time, you are not certain that Inmotion DOES INDEED use cell balancing. In this case this video seems like a PR move for Inmotion, the opposite of anti-PR move of WrongWay. Bummer: It isn’t broken and it isn’t fixed.
The lengths that I’m interested to go to in order to find the answer that satisfy me have been met with what I’ve brought up in this video. I can’t see a reason to believe that Inmotions since the V10F (and possibly earlier) wouldn’t have cell balancing. And I find all the arguments that the other side has made to be easily refuted.
But that still doesn’t bring us to the factual truth. I can’t explain how what I’ve seen would be possible without cell balancing, but even that doesn’t give us the factual truth.
I would have to disassemble the battery pack of my V11, and use a lot of my time to orchestrate and document several measurements and test procedures. I’m simply not interested in wasting my time and energy on that, since it wouldn’t affect my relationship with my wheel nor my future purchases. And even that wouldn’t stop the rumor mill from going on.
So it’s not about facts. It’s about what’s solid enough for you personally.
I don’t get your comment about a PR move though. If Inmotion was interested at all in addressing the rumors, why on earth would they use a small RUclipsr like me to share counter-rumors when they could just as well kill the rumor altogether in the Ask Bob series of videos??
@@mrelwood_EUC Maybe coming from Inmotion wouldn’t be so credible, than coming from an experienced, electronics knowledgeable and long term Inmotion wheel owner. Why someone would believe any Chinese manufacturer interested in making money galore, despite well known shortcuts in quality (I refer to all EUC manufacturers, not specifically Inmotion) and poor warranty coverage? Why Inmotion doesn’t put Samsung cells in their wheels and keep using poorer LGs? Because they are more expensive. The video is well done and for sure, you are more credible than Inmotion. Still, you didn’t manage to combat unequivocally WrongWay’s view, but only for the ones who desperately need a waterproofed max 30kg wheel. They need to be convinced. I saw a lot of problem reports of even V12HT (with new board and bigger mosfets), like uneven batteries charging, probably due to some poor cells. I have no doubt, that RUclipsrs with favorable views for Inmotion receive better QC wheels, when they buy, at minimum, if not other advantages. Of course, nobody ever admits, Marty style. That battery pack disassemble would be more convincing, but you stated the short length you are willing to go to prove WrongWay’s statement false. And this tiny demonstration length in favor of Inmotion is waaaaay waaaay disproportionate vis-à-vis to the price asked by Inmotion for these carrots. A 2500€ wheel should last at least 5 years. Old, second-hand cars, at this price, last longer and it is no problem to drive in the rain. Not to speak of 5000€ wheel. Anyone who speaks well about any EUC company selling so expensive these carrots, that last max 1-2 years, are sketchy.
Fantastic info
Thank you!
Good information creates a safe riding environment~~👍 Good Job!! mr. Elwood 🙏👍
Thank you!
Thanks for the video!
Thanks Alexander!
Good video, good information.
Well done 👍🤟
I'm a robotics engineer and this isn't the first time WrongWay (and others) have invented problems that don't exist and spread false information way outside their area of expertise. Very frustrating and disappointing.
Imagine waking up from a medical operation and telling the surgeon how he should have done the surgery, based on some rumours, from social media, while you were unconscious. Just where is this confidence coming from?
I’ve noticed the same in several subjects. People are certain that they have much better solutions to issues they know very little about, and no matter how gently you try to explain the situation to them, you immediately turn into a know-it-all company shill who wants to quiet the customers and prevent all questioning. Perspective is so lost on people nowadays.
however it really looks like that WrongWay was telling truth. On Euc Forum someone really looked into integrated circuits of V10 and schematics and found out that the IC didnt used the balance option.
I only saw the investigation on V5F. Seems that it indeed doesn’t have balancing. One can’t expand the results to all their models though, since the V5F is the smallest and one of the oldest. One would need to examine all of them to be able to say that none of them have balancing, which is what WW said, without examining them.
@@mrelwood_EUC actually someone posted a V10 BMS in the thread and it looks like even V10 BMS doesnt have balancing.
Very good. I have 3 Inmotion wheels, they are great, considering a scooter too - I also fell for the misinformation, but could not quite believe it either - the packs are too big for no balancing. I generally leave my wheel at the last charge it rode in with until about 40% (lots of little trips) and then do a full 100% charge before a big ride, but then ride the 'top' off as quickly as possible - I don't like it sitting at 100% for days - but now I might let it stay on the charger at 100% for a couple of hours before taking the top off (generally down to 90%)
A few days at 100% here and there is no problem at all. Several weeks in one go at 100% might start to be leaving a mark.
If you’re going for a ride immediately after unplugging the charger, you’re not giving the BMS much chance to bleed the excess voltages. Some time is needed for the high cells to bleed down to the same voltage as the lower . If you go riding right away, you’ll just lower all cells’ voltages and their balance stays the same as before.
@@mrelwood_EUC what would be a decent amount of time to leave it on the charger once the light goes green? I also have an energy monitoring smart plug, but it sounds like that won’t be able to tell me when it’s fully balanced either (the wattage does go lower and lower once green). Shame the app, display or the charger doesn’t show this - e.g two green lights, one for ‘good enough’ and another for ‘balanced’ - as long as you balance once in a while the long term health of the pack is maintained.
@@brushlessmotoring I generally recommend 1-2 hours of plugged in after green, and all the hours you can spare to let it settle. I’m not sure what would be a general recommendation here, but 4 hours of rest would be great. Usually 2 hours might suffice though.
Wrong way is wrong 🤣
Awesome video 👍 I needed this in my life ✌️ keep it wheel 👍
Great content! "A lie [misunderstanding] is halfway round the world before the truth has got its boots on". I still meet people who will die on their sword on how 80% charging is "good" for batteries (without a smart bms).
That is so true! Thanks!
@@mrelwood_EUC Hi. I have a question on this subject. This 80% battery charging not preserving the battery as one thought, is valid also for laptop batteries? I mean it is better than charging to 80% and discharging to 20%, to charge to 100% each time and discharge until 20% and repeat, for longer battery life?
I don’t think it is relevant. I’m not familiar with how a laptop manages the battery, but I have no reason to believe that they would use a passive top balancing system like EUCs do. It wouldn’t sound like a smart move.
My recommendations and experiences only concern EUCs and their batteries due to how they are designed and built.
@@mrelwood_EUC OK. Thanks for the answer. I thought, both being batteries that use electricity, upon same principles, they have similar behavior.
Car battery is also a battery that creates electricity, yet it is constructed completely differently. 😉
Cell balancing on EUCs is a BMS function, so in a sense the balance charging recommendations are not there directly for the battery cells themselves, but for the BMS. A single cell battery does benefit quite noticeably from 80% charging, it’s just that EUCs with their large high voltage series battery packs and the way most EUC BMSs are constructed, do not.
I could immediately tell you are a Finn: beautiful accent and “max information to words” ratio
Haha! 😂 Thank you!
My relatively new V11 (I’ve ridden 150 miles on it) was just locked due to some sort of battery balancing issue and I’m trying to figure out what happened. The current voltage of the two batteries is 82.8V and 76.5V. I’m perplexed by the large differential since I was sure that prior to my last ride I had charged things to full ( and beyond?)
@@d.d.jacksonpoetryproject The voltage balance between the battery packs is a different direct altogether. Cell balancing only balances the cells inside one battery pack. The voltage differences between packs are handled by the mainboard.
Unfortunately there have been several issues with differing pack voltages on the V11. It doesn’t help that the firmware is a bit trigger happy about this safety feature.
If the pack voltage difference remains as large as you mentioned, it’s a warranty issue and you need to contact the seller. For intermediate differences that balance themselves out you can contact Inmotion directly to have the lock removed. But they won’t do that if the difference is that big.
@@mrelwood_EUC I contacted them and they insisted it was safe after observing my log to ignore the warnings and go ahead and fully charge. Once I did this they rebalanced and all seems well now, thankfully (knock on wood!)
Your great!
My v12ht drains the first 10% super fast, and it started back when I was still babying the battery I only have 600 mi or 1k on the wheel. What causes it/is there a fix?
Li-ion batteries themselves have a very unlinear power graph. Maybe that’s what you’re seeing? Or if you’re following the percentage scale vs voltage. Or if you tend to unplug the charger right away when it turns green.
So the danger is in the low part of the voltage ?
Lets say my battery has some cells that are discharged alot and the rest are charged fully , would the bms even them out while connected to the charger ?
The cell balancing behavior depends on the wheel model a bit, but usually yes that’s what’s intended to happen. However, if any of the high charged cells gets above 4.25V, the whole charging is interrupted. The common balancing process is explained in detail in this video:
Electric Unicycle: 80% Charging, Good or Bad?
ruclips.net/video/pgr7-b3eBm0/видео.html
👍🏻🛸
I been having trouble with battery balancing on my v12, will give it a go, charge again after fully charged, it's got 1v difference now, started from 0.4 I think, it only got 1500km on it, but the alert on the wheel screen says the battery is not fully working is really annoying and does bother me quite a lot.
Note that I’m not talking about battery pack balancing in this video, but cell group balancing. Sounds like your issue is with the left and right battery PACKS having a different voltage.
While the alerts are annoying, DO NOT DISREGARD THEM! They actually warn you about a real and serious issue with your wheel. And since we trust our health in these machines, alerts like this need to be taken seriously. If the wheel says that the other pack is not working fully, it’s probably right.
I don’t know how to enforce battery pack balancing on the EUCs, or if it’s even possible. You should contact your seller.
@@mrelwood_EUCit's exactly what happens to my wheel, I did actually contact the factory, they tried the remote adjusting, which is not helping at all. they said better send it back to them, or ride slower.
@@galaxyliu369 Do you still have warranty on the wheel?
@@mrelwood_EUC not anymore, sent back to replaced the main board within the warranty period, this new issue with the battery pack happened right after I got my wheel back from them cuz the driver board failed this time and needed to replace at my own cost, so I particularly asked them to fully check the wheel before sending it back to me, and this happened the same day I got the wheel back from them. they insisted that they fully checked the wheel and everything was fine.
@@galaxyliu369 That sucks. Short of replacing the battery pack you sent to have very few choices. First I’d make sure that the firmware and the phone app are up to date. If the problem persists, I’d try to leave the charger plugged in for a few hours after it turns green, and recheck the voltages.
I noticed in all of your pictures of Inmotion boards, the electronics have conformal coating. Is Inmotion the only company that does conformal coating on the electronics? Maybe you should make a video explaining to people what that is and how you can do it yourself to prolong the life of your EUC and make it better protected against moisture?
Most manufacturers do it nowadays. I haven’t seen any issues that would clearly be caused by a lack of coating on the mainboard, so I don’t see it being a very relevant issue. I’d also advice how to seal up the wheel otherwise rather than suggest for watchers of various levels of technical prowess to start coating their boards. It’s a bit too easy to get into places where definitely shouldn’t be any coating, such as the mosfets.
Thats why i got rid of bms in my inmotion and added balance plugs and doing maintance balance charge every month so i always know what my battery health is.
You got rid of the BMS?? So you no longer have any overcurrent, overcharge, or overheat etc protections??
@@mrelwood_EUC i have dialed the resistor in inmotion charger to charge to 83 volts this leave me with save margin so cells don't go over 4.2 while charging. I have split pack to two 8s and one 4 s for maintance charging where I can balance charge with my 8s capable hobby charger whenever some imbalance happend. I much rather to have this setup then have a pack with dodgy bms where I can only guess what cells are doing. Bms overcurent protection sounds like face plant so no thanks I rather to have this option removed. And I'm not worring about overhiting battery as inmotion board usually peak at 30 amps and I live in flat area so it's all good. Saying this I was testing this setup on steep hills and all worket flawlesly. As for cell balancing they usually don't get out of balance if you have matched cells. I have small diy solar system with tesla modules same setup with no bms and in a year of owning it I didn't have to balance these modules at all
@@greg23842384 The overcurrent protection isn’t there to cause a faceplant. It’s set to a higher amperage than the board can realistically use for balancing. It’s there to prevent a thermal runaway in case something goes wrong, for example a mosfet failure that leaves the mosfet open. Think about their “dodgy” BMSs what you will, but Inmotion has a few dozen thousand times more experience in building BMS systems than you do.
But you do you, just your wheel wouldn’t be welcome to my house. Nor would I dare to ride it.
@@mrelwood_EUC to take care for this issue i have installed quality class d fuse on my power leads plus there is another fuse on the board. I trust this wheel a lot more now then before. No bms less complexity and less chance that something will go wrong
Great explanation, it’s like Wrong Way is an INMOTION Hater.
Not sure about that. He just has too many bad sources for information.
In this case, this guy is an INMOTION Lover.
As a community how do we solve this?
Would a current limited (100mA) power supply fix the issue?
Charge the euc to a certain voltage 1-2 V below max and then connect the limited power supply for all cells to balance?
I’m not sure which issue you mean. If the BMS doesn’t have a cell balancing feature, all cell groups will be charged equally no matter what. If it does, charge to full + 1-2hrs and wait for several hours for the cells to balance before you go for a ride. Repeat if the cells are badly out of balance.
Terve, Iwould like to pick your brain on this matter if possible. I think that I may have a few ideas worth exploring.
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Very good info as always from you - thx mate
Thanks, Bjerke!
After replacing one of the batteries, is it safe to charge V11 with 15-20 v difference in voltage between two batteries? Will V11's BMS take care of balancing them out properly with that much difference?
No, the mainboard will lock the wheel due to a dangerously high unbalance. You need to charge each of the packs separately to the same voltage first.
@@mrelwood_EUC Thanks. I was wrong about the difference in voltage between two packs, it was only about 3 volts. So I tried to charge the V13 couple of hours ago and got the "Danger, contact your dealer" voice warning. Do you think that 3 volts are still a dangerously high unbalance?
@@palamud In not sure whether you have a V11 or a V13, though I’m not sure if they behave the same in this manner or not.
Inmotion has said that if the voltage difference on the V11 is more than 1-2V, the wheel will warn you, but you can still use the wheel. But if it’s over 5V, the wheel will be locked and can only be unlocked if checked remotely by Inmotion. I don’t know if they have changed the limits or the behavior since.
3V is clearly over the first limit. I would definitely charge the packs up individually to the same voltage before connecting them to the wheel together. I don’t know how effective the pack balancing system is, but I don’t think that the system is designed for balancing such big differences.
Traditionally the packs must be within 0.5V to be connected together, though the modern pack balancing systems are not quite as picky. But it’s easy enough to charge them up individually, why not do that?
@@mrelwood_EUC Thank you for the detailed information. I haven't tried charging the packs individually because the short instruction I got from the dealer did not mention it, but I've been thinking about doing that. Should I just disconnect the one battery's cable while charging another one thru the V 11's charging port?
@@palamud Yes, that’s the only way to charge one pack only. Make sure to disconnect all cables going to the second battery, the small ones as well. Monitor the voltages while charging, and make sure they are very close to each other before connecting both.
The dealer’s instructions were unfortunately severely lacking.
I have a v12 HT brand new. Was my daily rider putting 20 - 40 miles approx 3 times per week sometimes max 50 mile+ rides. Crashed @ pretty high speeds from a cut out due to unbalanced batteries. The Controller & right battery were replaced. I was told to charge it to 80% and not go below 20% & 1/10 times fully charge past 100% to balance the batteries. What do you think? I'm getting a Sherm Max next fits my riding style best. I love my v12 tho. Wish it the v12 was extreme....not a v13, a v12 extreme to rival the Sherm because it has a lot of potential from a great entry wheel.
I’m very sorry to hear about your crash (hopefully you were geared up!). But I can’t see how unbalanced batteries would’ve been the direct cause. It might cause slightly more voltage dip, but you’d have to be at the very edge for that to cause problems. What was the battery level at that moment?
If you haven’t yet tried a suspension wheel, I strongly suggest you do before making your next purchase.
I have a video on 80% charging where I go through the details of that exact recommendation.
Thanks for the response! Yes they were unbalanced. I was totally geared up. I've crashed upwards of 30+ mph twice. Once a grass ditch and this one on pavement. I'm lucky, but there is a proper way to crash. Yes I ride on the edge pushing hard thru the tiltback. I feel like I'm reaching The HS speeds. Anywho.... E Wheels fixed it tho no charge. New screen and bright battery and controller n pedal. How long after I charge can I ride again? & to confirm I should be charging to 100 and + 1-2 hrs after every ride? My v12 only goes to 99v even after balancing..is that ok?
I learned to ride pretty fast already 2379 miles in about 3 - 4 months of riding before I crashed. I want a faster wheel with more range. I wish they made a v12 Xtreme not a v13, but a better v12 because I love it. For what I know which is limited to 1st time rider only the v12HT....what next wheel do you suggest? I'm aiming for Sherm S, but this new Lynx has my attention.
I like the Knobby tire here in Fayetteville NC tropical weather, but I don't do off-road or jumps. Not too important for me. I don't know how much I missing having suspension. That low pedal level grip takeoff I love that feeling when I get low and hug the wheel. Pause 😂. I do want to feel what a street tire does .
I feel safe in the rain on my v12HT. I wish I had more range. I'm really lightweight "maybe" 160 totally geared up with charger and ish in my backpack.so I take advantage of seated riding and getting outta the blocks quick asf.
Well. I just crashed again. Pavement. Knuckles scraped and not confident in the euc world. I just got my wheel back. Was going under 25 in commuter mode.
My rim is bent. Won't turn on. I literally just unboxed it ready to ride. Doesn't make any sense. Luckily ever time i crashed even tho I've been on public roads in the right lane I've been far enough between or behind packs of traffic to avoid serious disaster.
I had so much confidence in my wheel at some point. This shit is dangerous. Cut outs are just not acceptable.
Wrong Way only stated that the Inmotion EUC don't have passive cell balancing (balancing while charging), it's unknown if there is some other type of balancing.
You mention the Inmotion BMS has 1k ohm resistors, but never mention the resistance of the Begode BMS resistors. If the Inmotion resistors are 1k ohms, it can't possibly be passive cell balancing, because that would require the pack voltage to be almost identical to the charger voltage to end up with a tiny charge current less than 4.2 milliamps. Even with a small imbalance, one of the cell groups will reach maximum voltage and shut off charging long before pack voltage gets close enough to charger voltage to reduce charge current to less than 4.2 milliamps.
After a 100% charge and V8F shuts off charging due to cell pair overvoltage, I see pack voltage drop by 0.2 volts in about a minute or so, and another .3 volts or so over the next few hours, so if a cell pair is overvoltage, there is very little time for the 1kohm | 4.2 milliamp discharge to balance the pack. For V8F, it seems that around 2000 km, there is a bit of degradation, and around 4000 km, it's more noticeable. However, if a rider never lets pack voltage get below 35%, it probably won't be an issue, other than range will be reduced as the pack ages and become imbalanced.
It is possible that the V8 series wheels don’t have any kind of balancing. Your experience definitely supports that. But I don’t know whether the balancing function in your BMS has simply ceased to function.
I don’t know whether it’s possible for the balancing to happen in the ICs, or what their exact purpose is. But the purpose of this video was to show that while WW has condemned all Inmotion wheels (at the time of the video) because they don’t have cell balancing, the reasoning behind that doesn’t work. I’m not saying for sure that there is, or which ones have it, but based on my experiences I can’t see how it would be possible for the V11 for example not to have any kind of balancing.
@@mrelwood_EUC - the main issue is the 1k ohm resistors. I still don't know what resistors are used in other brands BMS. I did another 100% charge on my V8F, saw a peak of 84.0 volts just before charge shut off and it dropped to 83.6 volts within a second and 83.3 volts within 30 seconds.
I'm owner of v10f. I did several time power measurements with power meter (which measure power and circuit). Normally v10f take around ~130W during charging. After green light appear on power charger it still taking ~15W and slowly decrease to ~6.5W after for around 1-2 hour(s). After 1-2 hour(s) measurement finally stabilize at ~6.5W and even it still plugged to power for longer period (several hours more) never decrease lower than ~6.5W. Based on my measurement looks like passive balancing is working if someone else have different vendor wheel and done measurements please add comment.
What you’ve described isn’t related to balancing. The constant voltage (CV) stage of battery charging in general behaves exactly like that. The charging voltage stays the same, but as the battery fills up, the charging current decreases. Your charger would probably draw around 6.5W even if unplugged from the wheel.
The balancing currents are in the magnitude of 5-35 mA. They wouldn’t show even a dent in the total charging current measurements.
@@mrelwood_EUC Do You have idea why green light appear on charger even there is 15W taken by wheel for 1-2 hour(s) and seems charging hasn't been completed? I've seen some graphs with charging phases for batteries You're described but in that case green light on charger should only appear after all stages have been completed not earlier or maybe I miss something?
@@cubbasa The chargers turn green usually when the charging current reaches down to 0.3-0.7 A, depending on the charger. Your charger seems to go lower though, it could be triggered at only 0.15A, which is already pretty good.
The charging isn’t fully completed at any point though. As you noticed, it only slowed down to around 6.5W, but kept going still. So the charger needs to turn green at some point. And I believe it might happen a bit early just to get better charging times, or because the manufacturers try to avoid overcharging the batteries, which of course doesn’t take balancing into consideration.
@@mrelwood_EUC So, how do you know you don’t overcharge the batteries, trying to balance them?
1) The charger has a set maximum voltage, so it can’t charge the battery to a higher total voltage than that.
2) The BMS has overvoltage protection for each cell group, so it doesn’t allow any cell group to get over 4.25V.
3) If the balancing system of a BMS fails (or doesn’t exist), in most cases where a cell group could reach the 4.25V limit will do so before the batteries have been completely saturated with said voltage. This means that once the BMS cuts off the charge (due to an overvoltage cell group), all cells drop a bit in voltage. This removes the overvoltage situation if one happened to formulate for some reason.
It is rumors BMS is without passive balancing, and still rumors it is exist. Both speakers is unofficial. So we would like to hear from official source
But we have heard from the official source, Inmotion themselves! The problem is that we got two answers: yes AND no. I’m not sure how any answer from them could be definitive anymore.
@@mrelwood_EUC yes i believe there is missunderstanding or weird chinese translation, but.. even on Smart chinese bms cell charging is stopping when one of cell groups reaches 4.2V. Not sure wich one, need to review all www.youtube.com/@OffGridGarageAustralia/videos so it can be true and about stop of balancing
I think we can conclude that battery vehicles are a rip-off, in terms of reliability versus price, compared with gas vehicles.
@@danmano478 lol (I think that was a joke?) - I don't know of any gas powered self balancing wheels - the throttle response would not be sensitive enough to respond to the millisecond input from the gyroscope .... my Inmotion wheels have been very reliable, and that includes an early batch V12 that they pro actively replaced the mosfet board for - mine never blew, eevee's was great at getting the replacements done. This is cutting edge stuff, I hope it matures now and gets more reliable and stable.
@@brushlessmotoring I didn’t thought of EUCs on gas, I was comparing the reliability of EUCs with cars and motorcycles on gas. And this, as a response to the comparison made by some EUCs fanatics when it comes to the high prices of EUCs. They compare them to gas vehicles finding advantages for EUCs to justify the high prices. So, what I want to point out is that no matter what advantages bring EUCs, the difference in reliability is so big, that the prices of EUCs should be much lower. This argument is enough, without bringing in “the one person vehicle” argument and “the safety” argument. “Bleeding edge” argument to justify the overpricing of EUCs is long overdue. I bet even after another 20 years some interested clowns will still bring this argument to justify the high prices from which they are sucking deep. Good for you, that you drew a winning lottery with your V12. There are a lot of reports of defect V12s in first year, even in first months. Also after the changed motherboard, and also for V12HT, which came with better motherboard from factory. My V5f last me only one year. Read extensively the threads in forum.electricunicycle.org and see all the problems reported by normal users/customers, which are dominant, in rapport with a few moderators and affiliated clowns who always come with diy solutions and with their “positive experience” regarding their wheels. Reliability means that the product is good enough from factory to last at least 2 years without problems, and not to rely on knowledge shared by third parties and having to diy yourself (after you paid thousands of $/€). And all this in mass, not only a part of produced EUCs have been QCed and others not, from here buying an expensive EUC being a lottery. I am not a hater of EUCs, or of electric vehicles in general. I just want them to be reliable, waterproofed, with a manageable weight and affordable. That’s it. This is not the case nowadays. It’s a dirty business, with many actors involved (manufacturers, resellers, RUclips afilliates, moderators of specialized EUC sites affiliates, dumb fans/fanatics - all pretending having no financial interests, just passion -> bullshit). The reality is, normal people, with normal income can’t afford buying these expensive, unreliable vehicles. If they are expensive, at least they should be reliable, so that investing 2000 - 4000 $/€ in a wheel should be done only once in 4 - 5 years. You mentioned eevee’s dealer. If you search throughly you will see for each dealer many customers satisfied with the warranty handled, but also customers unsatisfied that are being attacked by “satisfied” ones, in fact friend and affiliates with special treatment, for which they pay by combating the customers with unhonored warranty claims.
I put a vesc on my V11, how can I charge the batteries now without the motherboard? there are two little black and red wires coming out of the battery but they have no voltage, are they the charge connection for the BMS?
can I just connect the charge to the main output connection of the battery? I got 5000 miles out of my first V11, I full balance charged it every other charge.
@@embededfabrication4482 I’m sorry but if you’re unable to figure this out from just a quick look on the V11 internals, I really don’t think you are able to do it safely enough to avoid a severe fire risk. Many of the EUC fires are started exactly because of stuff like this, when people try to do stuff they aren’t anywhere near qualified to do.
@@mrelwood_EUC witch wires are for the charger connection? it must be the thicker small wires
should they indicate a voltage? your video doesn't show the end of the connectors
@@mrelwood_EUC it looks to me like any BMS can accept charging power from the main output connectors.
if anyone is following this, here is the answer. There is BMS common and BMS separate port charging. EUC has separate port charging and NO you wont detect any voltage on the separate BMS charging port.
The BMS charging wires should be two wires about 18gauge, thinner than the main power wires but thicker than temp sensor wires.
Ok man, I got it. Here comes reddit post then.
It's sad a video like this even has to be made lol
So true!
Of all my wheels begode was the most unreliable and to top it off charging top dollars for toy grade worksmanship has left me a bad taste for its products.
For some reason they’re still worth it for so many people. Or they think they are. It’s alarmingly common for riders to only look at the specs and decide that only the highest number is the one for them. No matter how irrelevant it is.
I for one decided the second I got my V11 that GotWay isn’t going to get a penny from me ever again, the difference in design and craftsmanship really is that huge. And the customizations, only three ride modes seems like a bad joke to me now.
this wrongWay adam is one specially salty guy... no wonder evees and his gf left him XD
I wouldn’t entertain a thought that the public would know much at all about his personal life or how he is as a person. We only know his public persona, which is a ridiculously narrow slice of what a person is like in real life.
I did find it hilarious though that his Inmotion balancing video had almost identical effects to some of my older videos… You’re welcome, Adam! Contact me if you want me to explain how to do them a bit better! 😜
Maybe you know nothing, like Jon Snow, and he has a spine, contrary to interested suppliers and some RUclipsrs, Chinese lollipops lovers, who believe whatever the Chinese manufacturers are telling them. The language misunderstanding is a good one, knowing they have PR guys like Hsiang and Electric Dreams. No attack to mrelwood, who maybe knows something and has no personal interest or bias, as an Inmotion wheel owner/fan. No need to attack WrongWay (pushing cheap Chinese manufacturers to do better for the high prices they demand, is a good thing, as for disinformation, it is not proved, since mrelwood himself admits in another post here, that he hasn’t proved that passive balancing exists in Inmotion wheels, and Inmotion has given both an YES and NO answer to this question). On the contrary, I ask myself, why a simple customer, with no ties or interests with Inmotion, would be so preoccupied with the negative impact on Inmotion sells of this “lack of passive cell balancing in Inmotion wheels” affirmed by WrongWay. No advocate of WrongWay, just confused by this pro and contra and wanting to know the TRUTH. Ultimately, I think both sides are a “trust me” thing. I better by a bicycle.