This is the first time I’ve heard any explanation about the difference in how push vs pull saws are controlled. I’d never thought about how the leading tooth side matters so much. Everything you said rings true to me
The nice thing about Japanese saws is they are so cheap I can throw them in a tool bag for home improvement jobs and not stress if they get dinged or bent. Plus they leave a super thin kerf.
@@osliverpool there are those foldable ones that i love. they live in my tool bag. i dont have to worry about saw tooth cutting me every time i reach in there. they are not that more expensive compared to their non-foldable versions, plus foldable things are cool and you are wrong if you think otherwise.
Personally, I've come to love western style tools. On the other hand, I find having the Japanese saws and planes are indispensable when doing certain kinds of jobs - especially when workholding or positioning is an issue as they are way easier to use in weird places. Western saws really expect you to have a certain setup, whereas the Japanese ones seem to be ideal for a guy doing stuff on the go or in an inconvenient place - the long, round handles and ease of starting and use lean into that. Frames saws, to me, feel like the power tools of the set, as they can just attack things at a surprising speed but are the most prone to goofy results thanks to being touchy and needing a lot of awareness.
The best thing for the Japanese saw is the thin kerf. Just makes hand sawing so much easier. Some western frame saws approach that, but then you've got a lot of weight you're pushing back and forth and it gets tiring again. Oh yes, and the ergonomics can be spectacular when you learn about the floor props: low little saw horses. You can really go to town.
Are you aware of a saw that used to be quite common here in the Netherlands: the "schrobzaag". Could be translated as a scrubsaw. It is like a panelsaw with a narrow blade, tapered to the end and with an open handle. It was used to roughly saw curved lines.
Those are quite common all over the world. We call them _keyhole saws._ He demonstrates one in the video starting at 4:54. The handle on his is a gent handle, but keyhole saws are available with all kinds of handles and in many different configurations.
@@SimonWillig Well, there's just a lot of different kinds of keyhole saws, including less refined keyhole saws, like the schrobzaags you mentioned. Essentially, all schrobzaags are keyhole saws, but not all keyhole saws are schrobzaags.
I tried Japanese saws but have the “slightly off turns into way off” problem. I mostly use western saws. But sometimes I want the precision of a backsaw, but too deep of a cut for it. I don’t have one as deep as a tenon saw. I’ll start the cut with the backsaw and switch to a ryoba to finish it. Total hackery, but it works. If you say “fret saw” I think of a narrow kerf (usually gent) saw for cutting fret slots. Some have a stop built in, but I use a mitre box-like jig that catches the back at the right depth. I forget people call coping saws that. Now I’ll say djent saw. (metal dad joke)
My Dad only had four saws he used for woodworking most of his life, a handsaw (it was 30”) a table saw, a ‘Skil’ (his circular saw was a Skil) and a ‘saber’ saw (jig saw). He did lots of great project with that small arsenal. He did add a scroll and band saw after I moved out! I got the bandsaw when he moved south. I have a few more than he did. A hand saw, measures in at 26”, a carcass saw, a sash saw, a coping saw, and a Ryobi. Well okay I have Dad’s band saw a table saw, powered miter saw, jig saw, a Skil circular saw, reciprocating saw, oscillating saw, oh and I remembered key hole saw, hack saw, bow saw to cut the Christmas Tree and I think that is all of them. WOW, I must do a lot of cutting! I do dovetails, and mortise and tension joints with my back or ryobi saws. But I also use carpenter chisels to run them up. Probably why you’ve never seen me on the cover of Fine Woodworking! I have
not sure if it is a skill thing, manufacturing error or the saw design itself. but i find the ryoba saws doesnt track straight with very hard wood unless the grain is perfectly straight. its almost like the saw is so flexible and thin, the wood grain is dictating where the saw goes. its specifically a problem with Jarra, ironbark and spotted gum. its a shame they happen to be my favourite woods. More than happy to accept its a skill issue, which means the problem will go away with time and practice.
Haven't watched yet, hope there aren't any cutting remarks! Hear about the made for t.v. movie about the retired surgeon who went back to work? It's called "Back to the suture ".
So what are your thoughts on the hybrid cut saw teeth?I figured it would be better to have 1 dedicated to rip and 1 dedicated to crosscut when it came to backsaws.
I did have a thought about the Roubo saw (hope I spelled that right). Could you theoretically put in two parallel blades to cut a board? Like if you want a two inch board, have a Roubo with two blades, two inches apart. Hoping that makes sense, and thanks!
yes I have seen some do that, but then you cna not control it at all. if one goes off track then there is nothing you can do about it. some big wind mill saw mills would do that but with very thick blades that would not bend easily.
Well, I guess I’m in violation of the Geneva Conventions since I use a gents saw for dovetails. However, I will gladly use any saw you’re willing to buy for me. 😊
Isn't what you called a keyhole saw called a pad saw? Is that just another name for the same tool, or are they actually different? I assumed a keyhole saw was non-collapsible, and the pad saw allowed the blade to retract/collapse into into the handle. Any clarification would be appreciated. Great video as usual!
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Well, James, the only thing I could disagree with in this otherwise excellent video is found right here in your reply. Technically speaking, a keyhole saw and a pad saw are two separate saws. A compass saw is the same as a keyhole saw, but a pad saw is a pad saw. Now, for sure, people use those two terms synonymously, but originally they were two different saws-ahem, which essentially did the same thing! But the pad saw’s blade was adjustable; the keyhole saw’s blade was a fixed length. That’s the main difference. 😉
Really liked this one.. But I do have a question. Where are you sourcing the Blades for frame Saws? I have only found Highland Woodworking but the options are pretty limited and they don't have the roubo frame saw parts.
For the large frame saw I either get it from Bad axe tools or Blackburn tool works. For the turning saws and smaller frame saws I usually go to tools for working wood
When I saw this wood be about all saws, I said NO WAY Not all saws how could that be possible.. I just bought my first Japanese and was not aware of the facts. I got it mainly for flush cutting dowels. Now maybe not.. . Looking at my other saws,, some that must have been mentioned when I left the room Circular, Table, Radial arm, Recipra, Jig, Band, Miter. Scroll, Hole, Hot (abrasive), Cold, Hack, Toe Kick, AND, whichever one may be used on me if I don't stop this
Given the plethora of saws you have of all 3 types, it would offer me way to much choice and "cause confussion" (misquoting Thomas the Tank Engine). Me; I'd prefer the Aldi option ~ just one (or two) of each type, which is all I really need anyway for what I do.
I can see where you're coming from with the japanese saws but if you're like me and have limited space, it's nice to have a tool that can do two things well. And if the time comes to throw it away I can still just break it apart to make card scraper or a smaller saw I'll actually be able to sharpen.
They can cut wood, at least the old ones could. My grandfather had one with two blades with different size teeth. His house was old; before the days of sheetrock. I doubt he ever used a piece of sheetrock in his life. It has a wooden pistol grip on it. Most of the ones sold today are just for drywall, but that was not always the case.There were keyhole saws around before sheetrock became popular.
Thanks for the video. Very informative. Sorry off topic suggestion for future video. One of the major magazines has an online article on hammer veneering with hide glue. Would love to see your take on that.
Good info, thanks for making and posting this! I do take exception with some of your complaints re Gents’ and Japanese saws, though. From what I’ve seen from other RUclipsrs, it seems your complaints come from using those saws with less-than ideal techniques. For example, I understand from watching Paul Sellers’ videos that the Gents’ saw handle should not be held like a handshake. A better grip results in the saw being held more comfortably higher up. But hey, we like what we like, I get it. I just think our explanations for why we don’t like things should not be based on incorrect or misleading information.
nothing you said about japanese saws was all that triggering. there was a video on another channel a couple of months back that actuallly managed to trigger me mostly because of half truths and preferences disguised as facts wihtout enough research on the subject. but your arguments are solid. I find that most criticism for japanase saws comes from two types A) powertool guys who threw too much money at western style saws and now are too proud to admit that something that is cheaper than what they bought might serve them just as well for their need B) people lack patience to learn body mechanics. I can undestand having a different prefence, but saying that style of saw if worse without putting the effort toward learning a proper technique ticks me off. One thing I find quite difficult - resawing thick stock, me saw tends to follow the grain and so far I have been unable to reliably resaw boards. Classic rip cut (withing 2") is fine, but otherwise I struggle, so if you ever make video about ripping with Japanese saws, I will be glad.
Hey! False Advertising! There was no mention of chain saws...or circular saws...or table saws...or miter saws...or band saws...or saw mills...or, or, or, or... oh, wait... what? This is a channel about hand tools only? Oh, sorry. Nevermind. I'll show myself out. 🤨 Well, you didn't mention hack saws: my absolute least favorite tool. I guess they deserve to be ignored. 🙄
Your feelings about the gent saw's handle orientation seem a odd to me. We use cutting tools with handles that are parallel to the blade all the time; they just happen to be in the kitchen. I bet if you held your gent saw more like the pinch grip you would use with your chef's knife, you would find it's use much more comfortable
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
You failed to mention the see-saw.
I’m sure that many people including myself really appreciate this tutorial. Thank you.
I was waiting to hear of the "one saw to rule them all". But, I thought, "Then it wouldn't be a saw, it would be a ruler."
The most comprehensive saw video I ever saw. A cut above.
Wood grain whispers tales,
Sash saw sings precision’s song,
Craftsman’s art revealed.
This is the first time I’ve heard any explanation about the difference in how push vs pull saws are controlled. I’d never thought about how the leading tooth side matters so much. Everything you said rings true to me
The nice thing about Japanese saws is they are so cheap I can throw them in a tool bag for home improvement jobs and not stress if they get dinged or bent. Plus they leave a super thin kerf.
Definitely, yes. I have several handles, and I can get crosscut and rip blades in the UK for only around £15 each.
I also like that my Japanese style saws tend to be lighter than their western counterparts.
@@osliverpool there are those foldable ones that i love. they live in my tool bag. i dont have to worry about saw tooth cutting me every time i reach in there. they are not that more expensive compared to their non-foldable versions, plus foldable things are cool and you are wrong if you think otherwise.
I bought the veritas carcass saw on your recommendation a while back, and it is an excellent saw! I find myself reaching for it all the time
Great explanation of so many options. Thanks!
Started with Japanese saw because of the cost and now that's what I'm most comfortable with
Personally, I've come to love western style tools. On the other hand, I find having the Japanese saws and planes are indispensable when doing certain kinds of jobs - especially when workholding or positioning is an issue as they are way easier to use in weird places.
Western saws really expect you to have a certain setup, whereas the Japanese ones seem to be ideal for a guy doing stuff on the go or in an inconvenient place - the long, round handles and ease of starting and use lean into that. Frames saws, to me, feel like the power tools of the set, as they can just attack things at a surprising speed but are the most prone to goofy results thanks to being touchy and needing a lot of awareness.
The best thing for the Japanese saw is the thin kerf. Just makes hand sawing so much easier. Some western frame saws approach that, but then you've got a lot of weight you're pushing back and forth and it gets tiring again. Oh yes, and the ergonomics can be spectacular when you learn about the floor props: low little saw horses. You can really go to town.
Thanks for the lesson, James! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Are you aware of a saw that used to be quite common here in the Netherlands: the "schrobzaag". Could be translated as a scrubsaw.
It is like a panelsaw with a narrow blade, tapered to the end and with an open handle.
It was used to roughly saw curved lines.
Those are quite common all over the world. We call them _keyhole saws._ He demonstrates one in the video starting at 4:54. The handle on his is a gent handle, but keyhole saws are available with all kinds of handles and in many different configurations.
@@Ahjile I'm not sure they are the same. A keyhole saw looks more refined.
@@SimonWillig Well, there's just a lot of different kinds of keyhole saws, including less refined keyhole saws, like the schrobzaags you mentioned. Essentially, all schrobzaags are keyhole saws, but not all keyhole saws are schrobzaags.
You left out Zona saws and micro saws for really fine work!
I tried Japanese saws but have the “slightly off turns into way off” problem. I mostly use western saws.
But sometimes I want the precision of a backsaw, but too deep of a cut for it. I don’t have one as deep as a tenon saw. I’ll start the cut with the backsaw and switch to a ryoba to finish it. Total hackery, but it works.
If you say “fret saw” I think of a narrow kerf (usually gent) saw for cutting fret slots. Some have a stop built in, but I use a mitre box-like jig that catches the back at the right depth. I forget people call coping saws that. Now I’ll say djent saw. (metal dad joke)
Great overview. Thanks.
James, I saw this one coming. Great information with lots of teeth.
Something else I want to try is to turn a gent saw into a western saw by putting a traditional western handle on it
A few decades down the calendar and I bet some preferences change. Elbows, wrists, fingers and thumbs tend to drive preferences eventually.
Very good boiled down video.
Which saw is best for NOT cutting your fingers off?
Totally missed all the forestry/sawmilll saws, the 2 man variety
Great video James!
Thanks James
Thanks for sharing.
My Dad only had four saws he used for woodworking most of his life, a handsaw (it was 30”) a table saw, a ‘Skil’ (his circular saw was a Skil) and a ‘saber’ saw (jig saw). He did lots of great project with that small arsenal. He did add a scroll and band saw after I moved out! I got the bandsaw when he moved south.
I have a few more than he did. A hand saw, measures in at 26”, a carcass saw, a sash saw, a coping saw, and a Ryobi. Well okay I have Dad’s band saw a table saw, powered miter saw, jig saw, a Skil circular saw, reciprocating saw, oscillating saw, oh and I remembered key hole saw, hack saw, bow saw to cut the Christmas Tree and I think that is all of them. WOW, I must do a lot of cutting! I do dovetails, and mortise and tension joints with my back or ryobi saws. But I also use carpenter chisels to run them up. Probably why you’ve never seen me on the cover of Fine Woodworking!
I have
Stumpy Nubs just did a great video on a nice Turning Saw kit.
My favourite kind of saw sits on a small tricycle, but again, I've no space for a shop!
not sure if it is a skill thing, manufacturing error or the saw design itself. but i find the ryoba saws doesnt track straight with very hard wood unless the grain is perfectly straight. its almost like the saw is so flexible and thin, the wood grain is dictating where the saw goes. its specifically a problem with Jarra, ironbark and spotted gum. its a shame they happen to be my favourite woods.
More than happy to accept its a skill issue, which means the problem will go away with time and practice.
Haven't watched yet, hope there aren't any cutting remarks! Hear about the made for t.v. movie about the retired surgeon who went back to work? It's called "Back to the suture ".
If you are lazy get a band saw 😀
I really like bow saws for handsawing.
Great review, you saved me a few $$. Also I liked your drill stop/bearing setup, but could not find on your site or when asking Jeeves?
Here is a video on that. There should be links to it all there. ruclips.net/video/1IfgVb4UmQY/видео.htmlsi=VSrwNlE1sygKbivQ
That was cool and so helpful
i SAW this an instantly knew i hade to dig my TEETH in and gat a HANDLE on all the types of saws.
So what are your thoughts on the hybrid cut saw teeth?I figured it would be better to have 1 dedicated to rip and 1 dedicated to crosscut when it came to backsaws.
hybrid cut is ok at both but not great at either.
Great video.
Panel of people...Quintessential dad pun. I saw what you did there. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for sharing that, allot of saws
I did have a thought about the Roubo saw (hope I spelled that right). Could you theoretically put in two parallel blades to cut a board? Like if you want a two inch board, have a Roubo with two blades, two inches apart.
Hoping that makes sense, and thanks!
yes I have seen some do that, but then you cna not control it at all. if one goes off track then there is nothing you can do about it. some big wind mill saw mills would do that but with very thick blades that would not bend easily.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Interesting. Thank you very much!
Well, I guess I’m in violation of the Geneva Conventions since I use a gents saw for dovetails. However, I will gladly use any saw you’re willing to buy for me. 😊
The blind carpenter picked up his hammer and saw.
So, if the present tense of cutting wood is to “saw” it, does that after (past tense) I cut it I’ve “seen” it? I’m so confused 🤷🏼♂🤷🏼♂🤦🏼♂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Isn't what you called a keyhole saw called a pad saw? Is that just another name for the same tool, or are they actually different? I assumed a keyhole saw was non-collapsible, and the pad saw allowed the blade to retract/collapse into into the handle. Any clarification would be appreciated. Great video as usual!
It's just another name for the same thing. That's the fun thing about auntie can tools is they come with dozens of names each.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Well, James, the only thing I could disagree with in this otherwise excellent video is found right here in your reply. Technically speaking, a keyhole saw and a pad saw are two separate saws. A compass saw is the same as a keyhole saw, but a pad saw is a pad saw. Now, for sure, people use those two terms synonymously, but originally they were two different saws-ahem, which essentially did the same thing! But the pad saw’s blade was adjustable; the keyhole saw’s blade was a fixed length. That’s the main difference. 😉
I never saw this coming
You forgot about big-box-store hard-point saws, which next to Japanese are very popular with beginners. What are they really NOT good at?
I feel like we've done this before but...I'mma watch just to be sure I'm not missing something >.>
Really liked this one.. But I do have a question. Where are you sourcing the Blades for frame Saws? I have only found Highland Woodworking but the options are pretty limited and they don't have the roubo frame saw parts.
For the large frame saw I either get it from Bad axe tools or Blackburn tool works. For the turning saws and smaller frame saws I usually go to tools for working wood
When I saw this wood be about all saws, I said NO WAY Not all saws how could that be possible.. I just bought my first Japanese and was not aware of the facts. I got it mainly for flush cutting dowels. Now maybe not.. . Looking at my other saws,, some that must have been mentioned when I left the room Circular, Table, Radial arm, Recipra, Jig, Band, Miter. Scroll, Hole, Hot (abrasive), Cold, Hack, Toe Kick, AND, whichever one may be used on me if I don't stop this
So what do they use in Continental Europe for a Dovetail saw?
a turning saw. Frank Klose was known for showing that.
I was hoping to see a Disston 120 ACME handsaw. 😢😢
I think i “saw” this!
How about a hack saw for dovetails!
Those work surprisingly well for that.
No bone saws?
I came to this video and I saw a saw, or two.🙂🙂
Given the plethora of saws you have of all 3 types, it would offer me way to much choice and "cause confussion" (misquoting Thomas the Tank Engine). Me; I'd prefer the Aldi option ~ just one (or two) of each type, which is all I really need anyway for what I do.
I can see where you're coming from with the japanese saws but if you're like me and have limited space, it's nice to have a tool that can do two things well. And if the time comes to throw it away I can still just break it apart to make card scraper or a smaller saw I'll actually be able to sharpen.
I saw what you did there
Keyhole saw is for hand tool drywall
They can cut wood, at least the old ones could. My grandfather had one with two blades with different size teeth. His house was old; before the days of sheetrock. I doubt he ever used a piece of sheetrock in his life. It has a wooden pistol grip on it.
Most of the ones sold today are just for drywall, but that was not always the case.There were keyhole saws around before sheetrock became popular.
@@debluetailfly very cool
Thanks for the video. Very informative. Sorry off topic suggestion for future video. One of the major magazines has an online article on hammer veneering with hide glue. Would love to see your take on that.
Good info, thanks for making and posting this!
I do take exception with some of your complaints re Gents’ and Japanese saws, though. From what I’ve seen from other RUclipsrs, it seems your complaints come from using those saws with less-than ideal techniques. For example, I understand from watching Paul Sellers’ videos that the Gents’ saw handle should not be held like a handshake. A better grip results in the saw being held more comfortably higher up.
But hey, we like what we like, I get it. I just think our explanations for why we don’t like things should not be based on incorrect or misleading information.
It is not technique. Just personal preference.
nothing you said about japanese saws was all that triggering. there was a video on another channel a couple of months back that actuallly managed to trigger me mostly because of half truths and preferences disguised as facts wihtout enough research on the subject. but your arguments are solid. I find that most criticism for japanase saws comes from two types A) powertool guys who threw too much money at western style saws and now are too proud to admit that something that is cheaper than what they bought might serve them just as well for their need B) people lack patience to learn body mechanics. I can undestand having a different prefence, but saying that style of saw if worse without putting the effort toward learning a proper technique ticks me off.
One thing I find quite difficult - resawing thick stock, me saw tends to follow the grain and so far I have been unable to reliably resaw boards. Classic rip cut (withing 2") is fine, but otherwise I struggle, so if you ever make video about ripping with Japanese saws, I will be glad.
Ripping with Japanese sauce is never fun unless you get a large whale back saw. Those can be enjoyable. But that's a whole different body mechanic.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo You missed the perfect chance to say to say "you can really whale away at it with this saw"
No comment bet you saw that coming.
Well you are not a hack as you did not mention the hack saw. 😀
Im mentally twisted!! Lol 😅
After watching this vidio my eyes are a bit saw
you forgot the See-SAW...
Cdb🎉
Haha Japanese saws….I remember those from before I learned to sharpen…..
Usually the dad jokes make me giggle... that was lame 😂
Comment down below.
"saw" this first...😅
comment down below
i tawt i taw a puddy tat. I did I did two a buddy tat.
I found a saw that is different to all of those
There are a lot of them I didn't mention. If you want me to take a look at it feel free to send me an email.
Bet you sew this comment down here lol
Hey! False Advertising!
There was no mention of chain saws...or circular saws...or table saws...or miter saws...or band saws...or saw mills...or, or, or, or...
oh, wait... what? This is a channel about hand tools only?
Oh, sorry. Nevermind. I'll show myself out. 🤨
Well, you didn't mention hack saws: my absolute least favorite tool. I guess they deserve to be ignored. 🙄
Your feelings about the gent saw's handle orientation seem a odd to me. We use cutting tools with handles that are parallel to the blade all the time; they just happen to be in the kitchen. I bet if you held your gent saw more like the pinch grip you would use with your chef's knife, you would find it's use much more comfortable
James you shouldn’t bash the gent saw Paul sellers kind of likes them.
From time to time yes.
Ripping content that really cross-cuts the topic.
Well, I guess that by "mentally twisted people" you mean both Frank's Workbench and Paul Sellers! 😄
😅100th comment
Thanks James