Fender Tone Master Pro will FAIL if they don't fix these things...
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- Опубликовано: 20 окт 2024
- If Fender don't fix these things, it could spell the end for the Tone Master Pro in 2024. We take a look at 5 things that Fender got wrong with the release of the ToneMaster Pro modeler and what they need to do to turn this from a good modeler into a fantastic one.
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Are these valid criticisms of the unit? Share your thoughts below 👇
Let us know what you think of the Fender Tone Master Pro 👍
I just got my TMP, new to modeling and learning a LOT! I think your criticisms are valid. I too was disappointed in the "green box" and hope some firmware updates will be coming soon. That said, Im loving the unit and getting better and better at dialing in good sounds everyday. Thank you and please keep sharing your opinions and tips! @@PBOD
I think your criticisms are very fair. The hardware and interface are spectacular; they need a few software updates, and then they will rule the market with this. Depends on how fast Fender keeps up with updates, though. If they are slow, they will quickly lose potential buyers who are on the fence with all the complaints.
@@bronchick thank you for your comment. I tried to be as neutra and unbiased as possible. It's a great piece of kit but it won't last unless fender prove they can support it. Fingers crossed, I'm hoping they do
If you really think the TMP is universally too brite, the place to adjust this is not in the individual presets. As a former recording engineer, I know that it is easy to remove unwanted frequencies and more or less impossible to put them back. Make these adjustments in the Global EQ. In my case, I find some of the amps to be over-brite, but not all of them. Going into a Fender FR-12 in the room, I do find the unit to be overly bassy, so I hit the bass rolloff in the Global EQ for Output 1, which is set up for Mono (to the FR-12). Output 2 is left flat and stereo which is what I use for recording. Again, it is easier to take frequencies out than put them back in. Don't forget to click the "Retain Global EQ" button in User Settings so the settings survive power off and power up. BTW, I started on firmware version 1.1.111, so maybe these options were not available in prior versions. Also, I do find some of the presets too brite and for those, I do roll them off in the preset.
I did try this on the global EQ on my first video for this and it didn't work very well. If they could implement a global cut function that worked the same as the cab sim cut, I'd completely agree.
Yes, as far as I can see documented there is no indication where to shelf for high and low start. The low shelf worked for my FR-12, but it would be nice to have a Global
EQ setup that would allow you to define where the roll-off starts. This would accomplish the same thing that the roll-off in the preset does... without making you change up to 504 presets if you decide you made the wrong choice.
One thing I do see in the Global EQ that I consider to be a design flaw is that if you turn on a low shelf and then turn on a high shelf, it cancels your low shelf. They should not be mutually exclusive. Many users will want both.
Thanks, I found the FR12 to sound bassy and like a blanket was over it using the Tonemaster Pro. Global EQ must be the way to go.
The high cut solution in your first tip is right in line with how all the other modeling platforms, Fractal included, work. This doesn't need to change.
How it is recording analog as well. It is up to you to eq as needed.
@@JasonPelzelExactly. This isn’t broken. And asking for it to be “fixed” reveals some fundamental misunderstanding of how the process works.
The cut feature is something that I found I would occasionally use on other modelers to tame the high end. With the tone master, every cab required it even when you'd set the mic position to a darker sound. As it is a universal flaw with the voicing of every cab, if Fender set the cut to 10k as standard, it would solve the issue. This isn't an issue I had experienced with any other modeler, therefore it was worth mentioning as a point on this list. This isn't just our opinion, if you watch other reviews of the unit, you can see others complain about how bright everything is as default.
You have to take into consideration it is in its infancy I gig with it. Already knew the the frequency cut trick. I use the power amp in from a Boss Katana. Replaced the speaker with Texas Heat. This adds more correct frequency response. Tried an FRFR but like this better I gigged a Helix. To me the UI and sounds are better. To have actual screen images with dual foot switch controls is a welcomed feature. Just do not forget, this is in its infancy and I like it already
Yeah, absolutely. There is a lot of potential for it, I just hope that fender support it with regular updates. If they do, this could be still going strong 5 years or more down the line 👍
Funny, I thought the presets were actually DARK and mostly unusable into the FR12. I thought, "Maybe they EQ the presets for recording or PA?" Anyway, creating a rig from scratch was quite easy and sounded fine to me. Need more amps for sure... Matchless? I don't see a Fender Tweed 50's amp either?
From scratch seems like the way forward
I don't get the all the criticism for the TMP. Ive gigged a Helix and a Headrush for years. Bought the TMP at the end of the year and it sounds so much better than the others. Amps and effects included. Of course there are areas that could be improved and newer amp and effect models that could be added but even as it stands right now, it's already better than a helix in my book.
I don’t see the problem also, it’s new when the cortex came out it was really under promised, this didn’t even promise anything it just appeared lol
The video wasn't made to trash the unit, I think there is massive potential there. The user interface, minus the stereo path creation, is so intuitive and there are some good sounds in there. I really want Fender to succeed with this one as the modelling market is a bit more crowded now. I hope they take some of this on board and make the excellent unit I know it could be. I'm glad you're having a great experience with yours though 👍
@@PBOD I’m not trashing you bro, I loved the video ❤️, and fender need to up their game with these findings here. What I’m talking about is how general people are writing the unit off already without giving it a chance. I really love it maybe the tones aren’t as good as others maybe they are but what’s important to me I just love using it and playing with it. I ordered this and the cord cortex together to try. The cortex did sound good but there was no way for me to run backing tracks for using my phones
Bluetooth. I run a stereo spitter switch box with my Mac interface going into it, and the tone master pro, this way, I can switch between listening to the tone master pro or my Mac, so I don’t even need my Mac turned on. After work I just wanna go and play Guitar, this unit is literally like Studio in your hands and makes me want to play!
If it makes you want to play, it's worth every penny 👍 I'm fighting Fenders corner here and want to see it talked about in the same way the Kemper, Helix and QC are talked about. I'm hoping they implement some tweaks and support the updates, there is no reason this couldn't be one of the market leaders
@@AkimboVermonI know you can send any audio signal playing in your PC via Bluetooth to the TMP, so you can plug your guitar in the TMP and your headphones and you are ready to play while listening the pc audio. That's what I want. You claim that QC can't. Are you sure? What about Helix? Fractal? That is very important to me, since playing vida pure VSTs on PC is something that I enjoy at the moment. Mainly because I don't have a proper setup yet and latency is an issue, also sound quality. Maybe I am wrong and it is perfectly fine nowadays to play in real time with a PC.
For me, it's good to see more discerning ears than mine doing these kind of critiques. Thank you.
That's what the manufacturers need to see/hear in order to make their products (or updates) better. At the very least, they could add an "IMPORTANT!" section right at the beginning of their user manual on how to globally and/or locally tame the lows and highs for a more pleasant, usable live sound. I know I would be one to appreciate things like this, the idea being get it out of the box, read a primer on it (a few pages of the manual), and go play some gigs with it right away to see how it does.
Absolutely. The idea behind the video was to give some suggestions to make it an even better option, I really hope they take some of it on board because I think there it's a fantastic bit of kit in there just waiting to get out 👍 thanks for the kind words
"I couldn't figure out how to do split signal paths... Granted I didn't read the manual"
Proceeds to blame the unit for his own stupidity, classic!
When doing the same action on other modelers is so intuitive you don't need to use the manual, it's worth mentoring. Do you own a Tone Master Pro?
I don't require a vast array of amps; I just want the ones available to be excellent. I'm allowing some time for improvements. However, I must acknowledge that the hardware is at the top in the market.
Yeah, a good selection of decent amps would be great. All of the good ones currently are fender flavoured, so are a bit too similar. We will have to wait to see if they give the unit support 👍
The cutoff criticism is silly.. literally every other modelling device requires a high and low cut on the cab block.
A lot of modelling units have that as an option, but no modeler that I've used require the use of the high and low cut to get rid of annoying frequencies. This isn't just a complaint from myself, a fair few other videos suggest this as an issue too. Do you own the Tone master pro? What are your thoughts on the unit?
with my bright in ear monitors and the tmp I always cut the cab to around 10k or something. but I noticed when playing live through a pa that I had forgot to do it on one of my presets and it was still at 20k and I couldn't tell that much of a difference.
I tested this through my headphones but also though the matching frfr cab and I used the EQ on the cab to help tame it also and that worked quite well. It's not a deal breaker and maybe experimenting with third party IRs might help too. Maybe fender could address it in their next patch?
For the Hi Cut I do this out if the box with every unit or plugin. There’s something about the digital that adds so many high frequencies that don’t exist in a real cabinet. Out of the box I do a hi cut indeed to about 8.5 - 10kHz. And also a low cut to cut everything below 100-120hz. And also a generous cut at 4kHz on high gain sounds.
But overall this unit is just not worth its price point. If it was $1000, sure, makes sense. But nope… should have waited til it was more fully featured out of the box
Yeah, I've heard others doing this with other modelers too. I found it really noticeable with this one where I felt it needed it.
There are some great features on this unit, it's so intuitive to use, so I really want it to succeed but yeah you're right, they should have left it in development a little longer to get that added polish to the unit.
So there are a few comments from you that are really not things that need improvement. I really like the way the stereo paths are setup and tweakable. Very handy actually
The issues weren't with the stereo paths, but the way you add them to the signal chain. In a few desktop editors for other units, you just drag and drop into an empty space and it will add a stereo path. With this is a lot of menu surfing to get to the same thing. I was just confused why everything else was so user friendly and this seemed more difficult than it needed to be. The actual stereo in there unit seemed fine 👍
LOL the tubescreamer pedal has dry signal blended in. You have the blend set at 100%...
The blend is set to 100% meaning it is a totally wet mix. It is set like this as default when you add the block. It's a nice feature to add a blend control but the screamer model should be better even without that control
That tube screamer is inexcusable 😂😂😂 there is potential though
They really should take a look at it, huh?
TMP is amazing. Better than the HX already.. but yes there needs to be some improvements which are coming
I am looking forward to seeing what they give us with the updates. At the moment, I feel it still isn't showing us the potential
It wouldn’t take much for Fender to turn this around, a price reduction would help too.
Aye, and I think this video is a bit of a love letter to that notion. I really want to see it succeed because I think with the interface being so user friendly,, it has it's place. It just needs that last little bit of polish to get it just right
A price reduction for what? It's priced directly in line with it's competition. What justifies the TMP being priced below, say a Helix for example?
@@gdawgs101it’s at roughly the same price as a quad cortex but is more in line with the feature set of the Helix floor which, in the UK at least, is roughly £250 less. If they had targeted Helix price they would have significantly undercut Neural and would be seen as a more viable alternative to a Helix floor. That’s just my humble opinion though.
As Jason said, the quad cortex being the same price but having a much vaster library of models AND the ability to capture your own amps and pedals means that the fender just isn't bringing as much to the table. It's all personal opinion of course, but I think there is argument for reducing the price further. What features do you think warrant keeping the price in line with the QC?
The stereo patch set up is easy as it gets! WTH you talking about? I mean, you admitted you didn't read the manual. Is setting up a stereo patch ease or difficulty on Fender or on some dude that doesn't read the manual? High cutting is true of EVERY modeler. As for the Tube Screamer... Not sure what the hell you're hearing. BUT...If you still feel that way, just add you favorite TS into an FX loop (you might wanna read that manual on how that works)...
On other modelling units, it's just a case of drag and drop for stereo paths - this in contrast requires finding a little hidden away menu. I find the unit incredibly intuitive, hence not needing to reach for the manual, but this specific feature seemed uncharacteristically difficult to find in this unit. We have experience with most of the leading modelers here at PBOD and, for the majority, cutting on the cab sims just isn't a necessity. It's not exclusively a problem for the TMP granted, but it is a problem. Do you own a TMP? What are your thoughts and experiences with the unit?
@@PBOD It's literally so damn easy, a 10 year old can do it...without the manual....
@@PBOD And yes..I own the TMP. I also own a Helix and Kemper. The TMP is the EASIEST unit to work with hands down. Keep in mind...It's like 5 months old now? You are comparing units that have been out a decade or so with a 5 month old unit....
Please don't be insulting here, keep it kind. I agree that, for the majority of things, the tone master is incredibly simple to use. I'm my previous video, I praise it for his intuitive it is (I think I even mention it a few times again in this one). Coming from the Helix, you'll know how easy the drag and drop stereo paths are, no menu surfing required. Would you not like to see something like that for this unit too? The reason we compare it to other units is because it's not in a market on it's own, those other units exist and, whether they like it or not, they are their competition. I really want the TMP to succeed, I'm not trying to hate on it
Let's not forget this is the first modeler to be marketed by Fender. Do you remember how many bugs the Kemper had when it was released ? For a first time, I think it's almost a masterstroke !
Interesting - I’ll maybe hold for Hélix 2
If they sort some of these things out, it could be great. It's not quite there just yet...
@@PBOD and maybe overpriced at the moment
Wouldn't that be something? The Kemper software is up to par, but the hardware is pushing 15 years!! A tiny black-and-white screen? Really?
If I paid out money for one of these! I would expect it to not have issues to be honest :) with such a massive price tag! I would buy a guitar or amp instead anyway :)
Yeah, an amp wouldn't have these issues for sure 😂👍
@@PBOD Yes but an amp doesn't have the versatility of complexity of a unit like this. You do realize this is a multi-processor computer? There is absolutely no unit, or computer for that matter, that releases without bugs or a need for firmware updates. I think you all are being a little unrealistic in this particular criticism. For God sake even a mature product like iPhones release with bugs.
Aye, most things do come with bugs that need fixing. Without feedback, fender will not know what they need to update and fix, so this is a plea for them to address some of the issues rather than a full on criticism. I do hope they do because the unit has potential, but it's just not quite there yet
Still way too overpriced for a unit that lacks so much compared to its competitors.
It's the elephant in the room, but I don't think you're wrong. It won't take much to get it where it needs to be, there is a market for it but it's just not quite there yet
I'll never understand why people say this and then praise the Helix which is 10 years old and the exact same fucking price....... 😂
Modeler tribalism is the dumbest thing currently in the guitar industry
@@gdawgs101 but the helix I’d argue is actually better in my opinion
There is no tribalism going on here. In the UK, the TMP is a good £300 more than the Helix. Where do you live? Is it closer in price there?
Everything fender is overpriced. American fender strats/teles now start at $1,699 for an assembly line guitar that is screwed together with a plastic finish. Nobody cares, though, because it is more fun to slag off Gibson while giving fender a pass for everything
Global EQ = Fixed
Have a look at the first video I did for this (it's in the card at the end of the video), I used the global EQ and it didn't really work. I needed to then use a further EQ pedal in the patch to get rid of the annoying frequencies.
The fact that there is no import/export on release and your forced to use the damn cloud that consistently doesn't work, is a no sale. I returned my TMP piece of crap. After having a tech support at Fender argue with me about how they are new to the foray of modeling and I need to be patient was absolute BS. Then I was told my Fender account was too old and I had to create a new one and try that to get the cloud save to work. This has been an issue with there TM line amps for several years. Stay with the Helix or Fractal and avoid this disastrous mess. No save to your PC/MAc at release should be a no sale period!
Yeah, that would have made the list had I known. I didn't have any need to use the export function, but it does seem like quite an oversight. Maybe they'll rectify it in future updates, but realistically it should have always been a function.
Really? You can't import rigs from third-party vendors?
What do you mean? You mean you can't import IRs nor AMPs nor effects from anywhere like tonehunt? Does Helix or fractal or QC does?