'Under 4000 RPM ' ? That's for rolling around town. You HAVE to be willing to push the car up towards the redline where it wants to live. The try doing it on some windy roads. Then try it on a racetrack. Do that and you will start to understand what that car is made to do.
That makes sense. I could see some glimpses of that when I did push it up in the revs. I think for me, a big part of the fun factor includes usability in the real world, which is maybe not this car's strongest suit.
@AndrewDoesCarStuff you simply need to learn how to drive cars with a torque curve high on the rev range. Some years ago I had two BMW E34s, a 535 and a 525. I enjoyed driving the (slower) 525 MORE, because I had to keep the revs up to extract performance. Learn how to do this and it will transform your relationship with every car - your Miata is a well-behaved housecat but also a GREAT little wildcat. Re your comment "fun... the real world" - this sounds like a Zombie World of black-and-white TV. Experience life in colour!
@@ingrampowell9111Agree.3500rpm is where my miata just wakes up. The higher it revs the more oil it gets. And constantly low Revs arent healthy. You can even notice how he felt during the last ride while warming up. Momentum cars are best. 💪
no hate but you chose a bum example. I’ve been around Porsches literally my entire life, I was driven home from the hospital in a 993. I’ve been incredibly lucky to drive several G body 911s, and I literally didn’t experience a single problem you mentioned. I’ve never had issues with heavy steering or play in the steering wheel, never had a shifter with that much play, never had issues with the clutch feel. No, it's not fast. If you want something fast, buy a turbo. To be fair, I also would never ever say that a g body 911 is meant for town driving. I would strongly suggest you find a 993 or 964, those are the real gems. My first car was an NB Miata, and as fantastic as it is it has never ever been close to holding a candle to my dad’s 993 in any aspect except service costs. I would very much urge you to find a better and more modern example.
After hearing you compare it to your Miata so much, you really really should’ve chosen a 993 or at least a 964. I won’t mince words, comparing a car of this vintage to a 90s Miata is pointless.
This was the example that I had a chance to drive, so I had to take what I could get. If someone wants to lend me a better sorted and/or newer example, I'm all for it!
First he complains about issues with the shifter and steering rack on an example that obviously needs refurbishment. Then he's at a literal stand still and complaining about the "heavy steering". Seriously? Then the 'best' comment of the video, "I took it all the way to about 3,000 RPM and it didn't seem to have much power actually." 😂 I have a 550HP ZR1. He wouldn't find it very impressive below 3K RPM either... I stopped the video at that point for obvious reasons. There is a difference between someone having an opinion that differs from your own but offers valid points of contention and someone that doesn't have a clue what they are talking about. Picking apart the condition of a specific example of a car is not valid unless it is a common issue among well maintained cars of the same model. Criticising the acceleration below 3K RPM is utterly asinine in sports car review.
I owned a pair of NA Miatas back in the day. The second one was an R-package with factory Bilsteins and no power steering. Loved it as it was barrel-o'-monkeys kind of fun. Then I moved to California and bought an aircooled Beetle. Loved it so much that I wanted a faster Beetle and went through multiple Porsches including a 914, 912, 912E and some 80s 911s. The 911 is a grown up car. With the right setup it can be a fantastic canyon carver, a touring car or a track rat. The 915 gear box that's present in the '78 in the video requires some serious work to get good. My '84 had an aftermarket coupler, an internal short shifter and external short shifter too. Rebuild the dreaded 1-2 gears as well and it shifted extremely well, very mechanical. Next car I had was '87 with the G50 box and hydraulic clutch. Pretty modern in operation. I've owned both a coupe and a Targa before, prefer the latter for the fun convertible feel. To the people saying that 911 is like the Beetle... well, not really. Early ones (especially the 912 with the 4 cyl engine) do feel quite Beetle-like. But the later cars from late 70s and into the 80s feel quite different. Yes, there are some similarities and a few parts even interchange but overall aside from the basic layout they're quite different. I still own my Beetle btw and enjoy driving both it and the 911 any day.
Great review! Next time try a sorted one. A worn out and defect Miata probably no joy either. Love the video anyway 👍 Edit: Looking forward to the next episode😉
The Miata has already been forgotten . Just because you couldn’t find you’re ass if it had a bell on it completely removes your opinion, I forgive you. Don’t quite you’re day job.
You're basing your opinion on an obviously worn 46 year old car that is the current darling of collector car speculators. If you're looking for a bargain in the 911 line, check out the 996 variant from 1999 to 2004. Not without some issues of their own, but bigger, more comfortable, faster, and better suited to modern day traffic. Plus most people turn their noses up at them so you can still get them at reasonable prices. I have driven a few Miatas and always enjoyed it, but never enough to actually spend my money on one. I have driven every variety of 911 (and 912) from 1968 through 2023 and actually purchased one.
Thanks for that perspective! 996 is definitely the cheap one right now, I'd be interested to try one. Probably a good bang for the buck. Which generation do you own?
@@AndrewDoesCarStuff none now unfortunately. I had to switch some cars around due to family needs. I did own a '99 Carrera 4. If you're looking for something light and tossable, I'd recommend sticking with a narrow bodied Carrera 2 from that era. Still some good buys to be had around the $20K range. Ironically, the convertibles tend to sell for less than the coupes. The 2005 and up cars, 997 and forward, start getting heavier and bigger, moving more into the GT category.
I own a 996 (1999 Carrera coupe) and a Miata (2018 soft top). The Mazda holds its own in the fun department, but the 911 is clearly the more serious sports car and is a shit ton faster. Compared to its air-cooled predecessors, the 996 is objectively superior in almost every dimension (just read the reviews at the time!) although some of the romance and build quality of the old cars was lost. The market has passed harsh judgement on the 996, thank goodness because I picked up my brilliant little demon for a song. And my early build car still has a lot of the character of the old cars, with lots of mechanical noise and a full leather interior that still smells sweet. And it’s petite like the old cars, as well.
@@kevinrowley2579 Thanks for the detail, that sounds like it would be fun. Light and tossable would be preferable I think. I hope I can try one sometime!
@@boffam00 Thanks for adding your experience. Cool that you own both cars and they scratch a different itch for you. The "fun" vs. "serious" factor sounds about right. Really depends on how you like to drive, and what kind of roads (or tracks) are available in your area. Hope I get to try a 996 sometime.
Who cares about a car you owned,@@dakotahayden6937? You're comparing one car you owned, with something/s you haven't mentioned. I'm comparing Datsun Zed-cars in the late 70s (slow, low-powered, heavy, ugly), with other Datsun Zed-cars (those that had far better power-to-weight ratios, had less of the gauche styling 'gargoyles' of the 280ZX). In your country, many so-called performance cars were poorly modified to comply with early pollution control laws. The 280Z was one of them. At least the 911 still had some decent performance, and hadn't been made heavy and ugly.
As an SC owner it’s true that it is a unique experience that’s not for everyone. For the true Porschefile, we love it, and yet we also appreciate our modern Porsche sports cars as well. Both are complimentary but vastly different experiences. The air cooled cars demand your attention but you can only get the man and machine connection to the fullest extent with these wonderful cars. The car in the video needed some typical maintenance items for sure, once corrected your experience would be much enhanced.
funny, i bought a NA miata while shopping for my perfect G body 911, when i finally made the move (to a 3.2 g50 one), it took me almost a year to actually prefer the porsche to the miata! the secret to liking the porsche is the commitement to the turn and the corner exit grip, when you manage to get the trail slightly off out of a turn, it gives you such a good feeling! i can do this almost all the time with the miata but its just too easy, on the porsche, it feels like an experience lol
People don't like to admit it, but the G-body cars were an awkward transition period where the tires got wider but before they implemented power assistance to any of the controls, so everything feels super heavy in these cars. The best 911s are really the early short-wheelbase longhood cars, '65-'68. There's a reason that these are so expensive in comparison.
Your points are spot on. These are old, awkward, smelly cars. They are far from fast. However, they are very well engineered. With that, they become one of the most rewarding relationships you could have with a machine. Every tiny bushing, cable, strut, alignment, replacement, or adjustment is felt through the controls and switch gear like no other car. If you really want disappointment drive a 308 Ferrari...
Funny you mention the 308, that's been on my mind for a while as a somewhat "attainable" Ferrari that I'd be very curious to try. I think the GTB in particular is beautiful to look at. But I'm sure you're right about it not being particularly great to drive.
Miatas are terrific cars! I owned an NB for a couple of years, can’t argue with the Miata. But I think you drove a very rough SC. And I’ve also owned a 964 for 26 years. Surprisingly, the Miata I owned reminded me of my old 911. I’ve not driven an SC, but have driven 3.2 Carreras, 993s, 996s, Boxsters, and also own a 2011 Boxster Spyder. The aircooled 911 is a bit of an acquired taste, but it gets under your skin and is my all-time fave.
I would agree with you completely. I did drive a bunch of SC cars, especially the early ones with smog pumps and no o2 sensor were not great running. This is not the way the were designed to be by Porsche, its how they had to be modified to be sold in CA. The 3.2 was the first 50 state car, and has a MUCH better modern fuel injection system.
first off, it's always a good day to experience a Porsche. Second, As a 24 year Porsche Owner, I kind of agree with you and cringed when you jumped into a 1978 model that needs A LOT of love. You are comparing apples and oranges. This example looks like one that was not well taken care of. Also, if you compared similar model year Porsches to your Miata, than I think you would have a much different opinion.
Fair enough, and I think you're right about comparing a similar era. If someone offers to lend me one for another review, I'll be happy to do an update :)
It's always interesting to hear the first impression of an old 911 from a modern era driver and you confirm what I've always expected. Most modern drivers would not like driving this car. The steering's too heavy, the clutch is too stiff, you have to press the brakes too hard! And the first one I ever drove had the 915 transmission and it seemed to me to have more in common with a John Deere product than a sports car. Then I drove my friends '88 with the G50 and my impression totally changed. As the happy owner of an '87 Targa for over 30 years I'd say it checks every sports car box like no other old sports car could, especially since you can drive the piss out of it and it never complains. You might work up a sweat driving it but it never overheats and the brakes never fade. It's always interesting and an odd slice of bratwurst unavailable anywhere else.
That G50 changed the game back in the day. I don’t disagree with the OP…older Porsches can be a bit of an acquired taste for sure. Steering wheel issue is simply a new bearing if I can call it that. I still love them though, crazy how prices have taken them beyond any hope of me getting one….now a more modern 996 with a manual! OP, go drive a 996 just for comparisons sake!
@timmusick9875 Thanks for verifying my take on some of the issues with this particular car. Good to hear that you've had great experiences with later ones. As I mentioned in the vid, I definitely want to try some others just to get a better idea for what the fuss is about.
Completely agree the G50 is the one to have. Also 87 brought the the added fan to the oil cooler, and the revised fuel mapping chip in the ECU (258 chip I think) with 217hp. I also hear the 930 tie rods make a big difference, not sure if you have done that but curious your thoughts!
3:15 that happens when people dont take care of their car... the clutch probabaly needs new oil and also some lubricant. the shifter needs new bushings, obviously. I mean this car is how old? 42 years? I bet the owner took care of it with washing, paint correction and rust removal / prevention / motor and gear oil changes but never swapped out those old nasty bushings etc. swapping old shifter and suspension bushings out + motor bushings will transform a car. and seing this, i wouldnt trust the tires and brakes either, without checking them first.
Hi Andrew, I love the drive through Hope Ranch, the only prettier site, than that SC, seen running though Hope Ranch is Kathy Ireland. As pointed out your base of comparison was a 14 year newer Miata. Just in those 14 years there was enough automotive advancement to make a base model Mazda feel lively in comparison, especially if you don’t know how to drive a 911. Thst said, It was nice to see you began to figure out that 3500 rpm is what the motor should drop to after you up shift no lower. After the car is warm you shouldn’t be below 3500, Your in town driving included. I will say you do get one thing automatically with a Miata you don’t get with a 911, a very colorful rainbow sticker for your bumper.
I had a '72 Beetle when I was in high school in the late '80s and called it "the Porsche." And I drove it like one, even having the rear end come around on me a couple times! I love the 911 and would readily make room for a nice air-cooled version in my garage, but I do have to admit I'm getting a little sick of them.
As a fellow Miata owner I will agree with you, the little car is amazing. A Japanese sports car is well sorted out, reliable, durable, and cheap to keep. People pay $50kish for a Porsche because they can.
To clarify that remark, I meant that because you have to plant your foot on the floor and wait for the power to come on, by the time the power surge comes, you're already at the next corner and have to slow down and start over. Admittedly I needed more time to get used to it and adjust my driving, I'm not used to screaming around at high RPMs.
@AndrewDoesCarStuff, you change down, using heel-and-toe, just BEFORE the corner, so that you exit onto the straight with the revs already where they need to be to accelerate. Learn how to balance brakes v. engine-braking, using clutch and heel-and-toe, learn where the power comes in, THEN you drive her. Learn this and you will discover why "driving" is not truly DRIVING, without a clutch. It will change your life. (Read that sentence again).
Additionally, rear engine rear drive cars like to be pushed hard through corners, the more you accelerate the better your grip. This can be counterintuitive if you're used to cars that prefer off throttle in the corners
I’m fortunate enough to own and drive a 2021 ND2 Miata 6 sp manual (goodwin racing exhaust and progress lowering springs, 1” all around and stiffer) and a 1999 Porsche 911 (996.1) with a racing suspension (6K in suspension mods, adj bilsteins, H&R lowering springs, spacers on front and rear wheels and added sway bar (rear). Comparing the 2 is complete apples and oranges. The 911 is hydraulic, very analog accurate steering and throttle cable wired. Nothing like the SC in the video. The shifter is completely smooth and accurate- a pure joy really. The only real accurate part of the video is the “4K and above” driving experience. Both cars are amazing, with little modifications, high performing when pushed and only revelatory when pushed or tracked, higher speed driving- particularly cornering, twisties (autocross) or any curved track. Yes, this 911 SC and my 996 911 Carrera really don’t like around town, slower driving, particularly stop and go traffic. It’s completely meant to be driven, driven hard, when driven. My ND2 is way way easier to drive in slower, around town, and can be rung out extremely well when needed. Any older 911- not so much, I’d posit. That’s been my experience as such. Both are world class (yes the ND2 (even stock) is world class), but the 911 is a unique, inimitable experience and drive with a huger power band, torque and racing capacity on a larger track or canyon carver drive- again, more than nuance- older 911, air cooled thru 996 or 997 911 is apples and oranges. Also compounded by the fact this SC and my 996.1 coupe is fixed roof, and my ND2 is a soft top. Again, Miata (lighter , 50/50 balance and poise, slower, little torque, vs. older 911, torquey, rear bias and amazing HP per overall weight ratio, 300 hp in a 2900 lb car, accurate, “light” front hydraulic steering, rather than electric steering (although quite great) in the ND2 Miata, is too hard to succinctly approach to compare on so many levels.
With any vintage Porsche, and yes, the 911SC now qualifies as "vintage", you have to be prepared to put up with things don't exist with other cars. The sloppy steering wheel and shifter are problems, and you've corrected them. However, it would be more accurate to rate a 911 model that is a contemporary to your Miata. If yours is a 90s era Miata, then the 964/993 model would be more appropriate. Based on your views, I'd say you're a 993 guy through and through. The 993 is the easiest to drive, the quietest and most comfortable of the air-cooled era, and it has working A/C. IMHO, it's the nicest air cooled 911 to own, too. Of course, there are maintenance issues with any car, and 911s can be very expensive. But it's by far the most rewarding car I have ever owned.
From a long time Carrera 3.2 owner, that moment you felt at 13:00 is why the fascination still exists with these cars, none of the many shortcomings matter at that point. Cool review!
Very understandable! We car guys are often willing to overlook drawbacks because we find something special about the experience. I can see the appeal for sure.
So many of the complaints in the video are either faults of the car being worn out and not properly maintained, and or the year. Early SC are not the ones to have, especially with CA emissions smog pump choking it - this isn’t how they were designed to be in Germany, or even in other states. This also assumes the engine is in top shape and tuned well (something that takes skill with CIS), and given the other areas in dis-repair it makes me wonder if the engine or trans are really up to snuff. How good is the compression, leak down, and plugs (rich/lean/stoich)? Also, keep in mind that the 915 gearbox while great when setup right (few are) is very old tech, as is K Jet/ CIS. It’s 60s era tech evolved, not even an oxygen sensor. I’d encourage you to drive a late 3.2 or 964 50 state car, that’s a much more fair comparison. Saying this as someone that’s worked on and driven both NB and ND Miatas and various 911s. They are both great cars. Keep in mind also the Miata is fun with no space behind the rear seats and it’s tough to put up with the noise and comfort issues for a long day, that’s not at all true in a 911. The way I see it, one chooses each car for different use cases. If you are going to compare them, please do a year for year comparison ie compare the same year Miata and 911. This comparison as it stands is flawed (1) the car is not mechanically up to snuff, but is compared to what looks like a super nice sorted Miata (2) the years are so far off the base features are not even close. A 964 with power steering, modern fuel injection, etc would be much more fair. Or the other way around would be to compare to a first gen rx7. I say this as someone with great respect and appreciation for both Mazda and Porsche.
If your benchmark is the Miata, almost no other car will have the same buttocks to blacktop feel. The raw "horse and rider" design philosophy is probably a little unrefined for der Vaterland. When driving one of our other 4 cars, I have to adjust braking onset and corner entry speeds from the miata standards of my commuter car NB.
Your video is on point. The 911 does have a sweet spot. Also, there is a huge difference between the performance envelope of a 1978 car compared to a 2020 car.
I appreciate He Mentioned his height 6'4....more room than I thought in there.... (I'm a professional driver)...Miata is a good benchmark for how a front engined sports car should feel like... The further back the engine, the earlier you need to influence the vehicles center of gravity. All 4 brakes are in front of the engines weight, So the brake bias will be setup differently....So repair the car, then learn to drive..Late 70's produced VW rabbit, Mercedes 190E, updates to the Datsun Z... Don't t forget the world's Baddest rally car before all wheel drive, the non Americas Ford Escort!
Not apple to apple. I purchased my first Porsche which is a 2006 997 Carrera S in April 2023. I subsequently purchased a 2014 Miata NC Club. I drive the Miata much more as it is more nimble and feel the driver and car are more in unity. The Porsche has its magic of its own. Effortless acceleration and handling in a different sense...
The only thing a Porsche 911 from 1964 onward had in common with a VW Beetle of the same year is the motor uses horizontally opposed cylinders, is air cooled and is mounted in the back. That's it, nothing else is similar. Oh, sorry - both were made in Germany and designed by a guy surnamed Porsche.
LOVED my Dodge Omni, well it was also Plymouth Horizon, same car but VERY FUN to drive. Passed a many mustangs in it with a 22" sub thumping in the back. Carol Shelby had some influence, just saying for those that do not know.
Fair! Though most people I've heard talk about Z cars say that the 280 wouldn't be their first choice, most seem to strongly prefer the original 240. I haven't driven any of them so can't comment. Add it to the list! Can someone lend one to me?
I have an ND generation Miata manual shift among our current cars, and it’s a joy. I’ve considered many times buying an air cooled Porsche, but Im thinking now the cost and hassle factor to keep it going is only increasing. You definitely don’t need to suffer that much to have a great driving experience.
Where you should have driven that car is early morning run down Stanwood to Sycamore, then up Coyote to West Camino Cielo, or take Mountain drive and up Gibraltar. You missed a great opportunity by only puttering around the city streets of SB, but at least you drove through HR. And yes, you identified the thing about a 911, it’s very “street able”, sedate and mundane as a daily, then you can kick it in gear and ring it out through the corners. Also, it’s nearly 50 years old, that’s more like 25-30 years older than your Miata, which is also a kick ass like sports car, but no 911.
Well I have good news for you, because I did go for a drive up Gibraltar and recorded it with multiple cams & mics, so that'll be coming shortly as a standalone video. As pretty as the road is, it's quite tight and narrow, so you can't carry much speed or use all the beans. But still a fun drive, I think.
@@AndrewDoesCarStuff cool, looking forward to seeing that. I also like that you fixed some of the old car pigglies and have the before and after experience. The hype of a 911 is that it is designed to be “tame”, even sedate, for daily use while having the balls for spirited driving, even racing (period comparable cars). Also, as a collector car, Porsche owners tend to ignore mileage where Ferrari Owners freak out over every mile. 911’s are way more reliable than most high end collector cars. Consider yourself very fortunate if you’re lucky enough to buy, keep, & drive one.
Miata is a great car: Mazda squarely hit the target with the first generation, and the design has evolved to near perfection over the years, but you must consider that Miata intentionally drew inspiration from sports cars of old: "Imagine an MG or Triumph that you can actually drive," was the stated goal. (I read "Road and Track" and "Car and Driver.") Certainly a sensible approach to building a new affordable, two-seat sports car, targeted toward enthusiasts who had long since put their British steeds out to pasture or sporty people who were just getting interested in cars and didn't want a reliability hassle. The entire Mazda parts bin was laid open: A tried and true drive train installed in a nicely styled, tiny roadster body with a modern suspension and steering. "Tossable handling." The roof didn't leak! Reliable electrics too! Mazda tried around 100 possible exhaust system designs to get the "right" sports car sound! Yay Mazda! You hit a home run! The tuner market is huge too! But how can you compare a heavily conjured, modern, purpose built Japanese sports car to a German sports car with roots going back to the 1930's? To get to the 911 SC that you drove took fifty years of development--mostly through racing successes--and this SC is over four decades old and is still driving! (To be accurate, the 911 SC has humble beginnings that actually precede the venerable VW Beetle.) Yes, the 911 SC and the VW Beetle have rear engines, and there the similarity ends. Isn't a Ferrari 512 BB just a glorified Fiat X 1/9? A friend made the comment that my 1988 3.2L Carrera is "Nothing more than a glorified Volkswagen." So, I took him for a ride. Having nearly soiled his drawers, He will never make that statement again.
Objectively, you're probably right (I’ve driven several Miatas and 911s) but whether a car drives better than Miata is beyond the point. Car preference is highly subjective - the car on the poster of your teenage bedroom is the one you lust after. If your poster showed a Miata - awesome, I totally get it! My posters displayed 911s and those are the cars are I feel so fortunate to have in my garage and drive. A new Miata is probably better in every measurable way but it would never give me the joy of my ‘teenage heroes’.
Yep I agree, preference is subjective. Funny story about the bedroom poster, mine as a kid was a Dodge Viper. Glad I moved on from that idea. But I never lusted after the Miata, in fact I probably turned my nose up at it before I drove one, like a lot of people. A buddy in high school had a silver '91 NA and he was nice enough to let me learn to drive manual in it. My young self was blown away at how fun it was to drive. And now that I have one of my own, I enjoy the simple, unpretentious nature of it. No need to impress anybody else when you're having that much fun. And no need to spend your life savings either.
Well, you were honest about your impressions and I can’t fault you for that. Ultimately, I don’t really think you were honest with yourself though. That’s sort of a different thing. This car obviously is well-worn. It had a bad steering column bushing, bad shifter coupler and shifter bushings, probably a somewhat worn suspension, and who knows what that 915 gearbox has been through (or when the last time it was rebuilt/serviced)? With your Miata, that’s like having the linkage in your transmission and the transmission itself be really worn/in need of a rebuild. It’s like unbolting the steering wheel from your steering column and letting it flop around. Probably also like before you replaced the suspension on your Miata too. Worn cars with worn parts drive like shit. Some of them don’t drive at all. I inherited an SC and the shifter linkage was so bad that when I was driving it one day, I had to pull over because I literally couldn’t get it into second gear. It had gotten so bad that it basically wouldn’t select ANY gear. That clutch needed an adjustment as well, now that I remember it. Point is, SCs are great cars. You got into one that may be fine cosmetically, but was a dog mechanically. It’s no different than getting into any car with serious mechanical faults and wear and tear. Now, Miatas are great cars too. I’ve driven my fair share of them and they’re arguably one of the best sports cars ever made, so it’s up against stiff competition. I think if you drove a properly sorted/well taken care of example of an SC, it’d be a much different experience. It’s never going to be a Miata. It never was designed to be, really. But there’s a charm to it being imperfect. Also, ultimately, when you drive a Miata, you go home in a Mazda. You’re seen in a Mazda. You tell others you drive a Mazda. Great car, still a Mazda. You drive a 911, you do all those things in a Porsche. Like it or not, that matters
Yeah, it's a shame my first chance to drive one of these cars happened to be one with these issues. I did subsequently fix the steering column and shifter, which is in the video after this - ruclips.net/video/iujjTzrFglU/видео.html - and that did make quite a difference. But I agree that I need to drive more examples to have a better understanding. These chances just don't come up much. I can see the 911's appeal for sure. But the price difference, especially for an old air-cooled one, is hard to justify. To your point, I think most of that is in the brand recognition / iconic status. Some people like to show off and flex their cool posessions. But if you simply want to have fun driving, Miata is hard to beat for the money.
Andrew, a 1978 911 SC does not have mechanical fuel injection. It has Bosch K-Jetronic electronic fuel injection. This EFI started with the 1974 911 and Carrera. MFI was last on the 1973 cars, most well known the 2.7 Carrera RS which was never sold in the U.S. MFI can be somewhat challenging to tune and parts are expensive. If your state emission laws permit, carburetor conversions (Webers are no longer made, but PMOs are exceptionally common and I have them on my 1975 2.7 Carrera) offer a significant performance increase. You should also understand there is likely no other engine or car which has won more motorsports events than the flat-6 and the 911. The engine is designed to be driven at the limit and for 24 hours. Thats why it wins at LeMans.
Well, K-Jet is essentially a mechanical injection system (fuel is metered by a mechanical device rather than a computer), but I realize it isn't usually referred to that way. I had a 1979 Volvo with K-Jet and had some fun diagnosing fuel pressure issues on it.
@AndrewDoesCarStuff sorry . I'm not buying that explanation. MFI produced significant performance improvements over K jetronic. EFI decreased performance. MFI was expensive and parts to repair or replace are expensive. PMO carburetors have been a standard upgrade from EFI for decades. My 2.7 RS motor with PMOs produces 230 hp vs the 73 2.7 RS spec of 210 hp with MF I.
I’ve been thinking about an air cooled 911, but just not sure. I don’t know anyone personally that owns one. I have a Factory Five Cobra, and a 2015 Mini Cooper S 2.0L Turbo, and the Mini is just as much fun to drive as the Cobra.
It's hard to say if an air cooled 911 would be "more fun" than the cars you already have. It's a different experience for sure. Only way to know is to spend some time with one, which is easier said than done! I was lucky to be able to spend some time driving this one, despite the issues. My whole thing is to look at the experience objectively and decide how I feel, rather than listening to the hype. We're all different. Just look at the one commenter who likes his ND2 Miata better than a Ferrari 458.
Pls Drive a sorted example, with new bushings, setup, etc. Keep it a 3500-5000 and go play. You can’t drive these like a front engine JDM car. There should be NO slop in the steering column.
“Took it all the way 3,500rpm” but the car should t be shifted before 4,500! This car needs a lot of work, but he doesn’t understand the vehicle he’s driving at all.
I've been gaining this for years. I had a 79sc with a 3.2 swap and a 90 Miata. Sold the 911 and kept the Miata for 7yrs until someone hit it. Loved loved Loved the little car. Always though the 911 was nothing more then a big beetle had no regrets selling it ....... Well other then i sold it 3 years to soon. If i had waited man would i have made some real money for it. Bought a 03 boxster s to replace the Miata, very fun car for not a lot on money. Damn reliable too i drive it everywhere can't complain
Thanks for validating my first-timer opinion on this! Also a couple of people have brought up the Boxster, so I think I need to try one of those too if I can.
Have you ever even driven a beetle? If you had there is no way that you'd make the comparison. I have driven Beetles extensively. I've owned four of them. Some years ago I drove a 1970 911 and it was a huge eye opener. I had owned quite a few other performance cars and motorcycles. Faster yes, but that little 911 was much more direct than anything else I had driven. It was a blast to drive just puttering around at 45 mph. A modern sports car is numb and isn't really enjoyable until hitting triple digit speeds. The more modern, then more numb. A first gen Miata has some of that same feel, but definitely doesn't match the old 911. How could it? A Miata has power steering and power brakes. A beetle is more raw, but has a ton of play in the steering. The suspension is far inferior with a lot of body roll. The build quality of the 911 is superior to any Beetle as well. I now have a classic 911 hotrod and it is so far from any Beetle or Miata that I have to laugh when I read comments like yours.
To each their own. I’ve driven tons of beetles and still own one. I had a backdate SC with a 3.2 swap to me it was just loud, slow and cost me a ton of money to build. Did it have strong points, absolutely. Where they enough for me to keep the car, no. You say an Miata isn’t engaging because it has power steering. Have you ever driven a Miata!!!! Let alone one with a correctly tuned suspension a turbo or supercharged! Sorry these are every bit if not more “ engaging” then g body 911’s. Again everyone has an opinion
@@silver911100 Don't put words in my mouth. I said, "A first gen Miata has some of that same feel, but doesn't match the old 911." Power steering and power brakes put something between driver and machine. If by "engaging" you mean feel then yes, the 911 is more engaging than any Miata. The steering has more feel as well as the brakes. You can't argue that. The Miata's are powered and the 911's aren't. Yes, I've driven many Miatas on road and track. Never driven a supercharged Miata. I fail to see why you even brought that up. We aren't talking about power. There are 700HP air cooled classic 911's out there. There are Miatas out there with big V8's. So what? That's not what we're talking about.
that is mechanical based fuel injection but not like fully cam driven mfi Porsches . It is Bosch CIS. The 1978 911SC is one of my favorite Porsches. That steering column is lose. Common upgrade back in the day was an Automotion or AJ USA short shift kit. Now a days there are multiple 915 shifters available. In 1987 the 911 got the G50 with a hydraulic clutch. Those seats look aftermarket. Great looking car. Car also has offset wheels. Should be 225/50 in rear and 205/55 up front.
at the beginning i think you miss an important point.....with reference to the VW beatle, F Porsche actually designed the VW beatle (along with so many other cars and engines, some of the highest performance cars in the world at the time), so the 356 was a development of his own design.
The VW Beetle is so famous in it's long run of production but most people haven't a clue that it was literally designed by Ferdinand Porsche. Also, to be fair to this SC, I think you need to compare a '91 964 in good shape to your Miata. After all, this 911 is 13 years older than the Miata. And also, this one is not in top shape. I think if you find one in good shape with out those issues you reported, you will enjoy it even more. Anyhow, good reporting.
6:37, Dude, the late 70s were a dark time for US cars, but it was the golden era for Mercedes BMW and Porsche, check out BMW 635 csi, Mercedes 450SEL 6.9, 450SLC, Porsche 928, 911 Turbo, and yes, even 911 SC.
Good cars from late '70's, early '80's (I'm from Brisbane, Australia-so slightly different: BMW 2002, BMW 633CSI, BMW E12 M535i. Brought to you by: BMW Club of Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
I have an 85 3.2,you have to grab them by the scruff of the neck, familiarity and practice makes all the difference. They are heavy and compromised, but when you know what you are doing there is no comparison. The only replacement for an air cooled 911,is another air cooled 911. It's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow.
You hit the nail on the head, Andrew. People don't get 911's from the late 70's because they drive so well. But you can't beat the sound of that engine and, as you noticed, it comes alive when you rev it. I would bet that the Miata is an all-around better sports car that is more fun to drive. The Porche 911 is, well, as you noted, the big brother to The Bug with all that comes with that. Glad to see another video from you; keep them coming and thanks so much.
One thing to keep in mind is the new miata will depreciate in the next 10 years to next to nothing while this will keep going up. Not the reason to buy a car but certainly a nice to have. In the US the 180hp engine was for your rules, the euro engine was tuned to over 200hp, I have this and find it has torque from down low.
This was great. I really like your style. If I made a car channel I would mimick yours. My first two cars back in the countryside of Finland in the 70ies were beetles, and they were really "beaten" in backroads in the woods and on frozen lakes. So I have always thought I would like a 911, and further more, that I would be good at driving it. Well, the latter still remains to be seen. Greetings from Sweden. PS: One more thing I really love about your channel, is that I get to see a bit of California, that promised land of my generation. (I´m model -55)
I would not compare this with a Miata - very different cars. The Porsche Boxster is much more a comparison to the Miata than any 911, and you can get early ones now pretty cheap, though they will always be more costly than a Miata. But you have to try that mid-engine chassis. It is an amazing feel. All that said, the 911 is about back roads and revving out the flat 6 engine. That is true even of modern 911s, They make fantastic race cars on road courses because of their traction and high-speed handling capabilities, provided you understand the physics of rear engine cars. The early 80s 915 transmissions are a different animal than the later G50 boxes with hydraulic clutches, which were really the firat modern gearboxes the 911 ever had. Remember before 1989, all 911s were essentially modern refinements of a 1963-vintage platform. Newer 911s are much easier to drive in the city, but you lose the fun of the smaller, quirkier vehicle, and the newer models are both bigger and heavier, even if they are way more powerful. I think you also had a not-so-great example (shaky steering, loose gearahift).
It is beautiful on the outside -- love the whale tail -- but that one's had 120K miles of being ridden hard and put away wet. I drove a 930 turbo of the same vintage in Germany and it was a precision instrument, closer to the Formula 2000 I had seat time in that summer than any normal high performance car including front-engine Porsches around that time. (The 944 was better balanced. You have to hang the tail of an old 911 out a few degrees before it gets fun. Don't lift off.) My ND1 miata didn't make me stop thinking about Porsches until it had the full Whiteline sway bars kit and an engine tune for super premium gas. But when not driving it, I still think about Porsches.
Good grief. That steering wobble is not something I'd drive with, especially at any kind of speed. Seems that this car needed some TLC before you gave it a review. All that said, the answer is always Miata.
I hate when cars are offered for road tests which are not well maintained. You correctly called it, the shifter and the steering wheel both required some bushings. The same with the squeaky clutch which could most like just use a little oil. All are cheap and easy to fix, and would resolve the initial issues that you experienced. But now everyone thinks that 911's have sloppy shifters and steering, and squeaky clutches. This is absolutely not the case.
It’s too bad the prices are so inflated because they really are drivers cars. A well sorted example is a vastly different experience than the car in this video. That said if you cannot or will not maintain it yourself you better have a tall amount of cash for your mechanic!
Miata?? What a poor name! Its an MX5, one of the best driving cars you can find. I have a 997 and love it, fantastic build quality. I'm a Subaru fan really and own a 22b. Great video, lived it..👌
Is the Miata a better overall car? Probably, but if they're parked side by side in a parking lot, no one's looking at the Miata. So plus 1 for the sexy factor of the Porsche. Plus I've wanted one since I saw a Carrera for the first time in the 70's. If I had the spare cash and garage space, I'd own a 70's 911. So maybe a bit biased. :)
Wow, even the 308! I've always had eyes for those (especially the GTB) even knowing they aren't that quick and have typical Italian car foibles. Your uncle's opinion just goes to show how good the Miata is.
1:36 yea no. Porsche/vw literally stole that configuration as well as styling from Tatra. Pretty well known fact in the industry. Together with giving Tatra undisclosed amount of cash in settlement.
Loved the video Andrew. I'm sure the car is better after you fix it up, but 50k is simply isn't a good value for the driving experience. People pay a premium because it's vintage, it's a classic shape, it's got a distinctive drivetrain. I'm a bit biased but the best driving experience for the money that everyone sleeps on is the 986 S.
@@AndrewDoesCarStuff the 986/987 generation is literally 85% identical to the 986/987 in parts and design, with the engine and transmission flipped in location. People just hate on them because they don't look like a 911, but in reality it's almost the same car with slightly detuned engines and better weight distribution. I'm very practical and budget conscious, so to me it's rather funny that Porsche managed to expand their clientele by selling basically the same car for cheaper, and that enough people are snobby enough to continue to buy 911s.
I have owned many air cooled 911s 3 911 SCs. My last one had a complete suspension upgrade and it was an absolute Beast. And yes you have to get the RPMs up to get to the power . All that being said my more modern Boxster 986 S with a Tune and suspension upgrade would to eat this car for breakfast.. it is beautiful but I think slightly worn out. A sorted out 911 SC would probably be a lot more of a pleasure to drive..
I own a NA and ND2 and they are fantastic. But, I have a lot of experience with the 1984 911 Carrera. Sure, the power doesn't come on until 4k, the steering is heavy at low speeds, the clutch is heavy and the handling is tricky at very high speeds. The ergonomics date back to the 60's, too. But, these weren't downsides. If you really want a challenging and rewarding car to drive, this is it. I have driven one daily and loved it. I also loved that it was not a car for poseurs I would also point out that this one had some faults (loose steering column and shifter, etc) that that you can't blame on the design. This car is pretty old, after all. It is also a car that you should spend time with before judging. That said, I would try a 964 or newer if you want a more modern but still very911 experience.
Up to about 1973 the 911's were real sports cars, after 1974 and the pollution controls that choked the piece of junk 2.7 liter engines and the 5 mph bumpers they got heavier and had electric windows and such and they were more "GT cars", not the same. The most fun 911 I ever had was a 1969 not S model, they lengthened the wheelbase a few inches in 1969, anything to fight the "dreaded oversteer" (along with two batteries in the front trunk corners and even optional aluminum rear lids). The 1969 had a 2.0 liter motor that was very torquey at low rpm, lots of "grunt", my car had a quick shift mod too, helped a lot. 912's were great cars too, they rode marvelously, very even weight distribution, sucked up bumps in the road like a Cadillac, very different from something like a Corvette that drove like trucks they were so stiff. And the steering was always very light, no power steering, very light especially when the gas tank was near empty and if you let the air get low in the front tires you could really tell. I often kept a big bag of sand in the front trunk to give the steering more "feel" and tried to keep the gas tank full. I worked at CIA and I had a way of going home at the end of my work day where I would go out CIA's back entrance where I took a high speed sweeping turn to get onto the George Washington Parkway, would take it over 70mph and when the gas tank was low the front end would skitter across the ground from understeer, was scary but controllable, of course understeer is the opposite of what Porsches are famous for which is OVERSTEER from the engine in the back. Because the engine was in the back, 912's and 911's didn't pitch nose down under braking like regular cars at the time, the body lowered down evenly on the suspension under heavy breaking, allowing all four wheels to do work stopping the car, my 1997 Toyota Camry has NO weight on the rear wheels unless the back seat is full of kids as the designers intended, in rain the rear wheels lock up with almost no effort. But 911's were even weight front and back under braking and that's why brake disk diameter was same all around and why Porsches could out brake the big heavy front engine cars like Ferraris and Corvettes and such.
Great insight and story, thanks for adding something constructive! Good point about the braking / weight transfer. I definitely want to try an earlier 911 if I ever get the chance.
I’ve owned a 72 R/S conversion an 87 3.2 G body Carrera ( with 12K mikes immaculate) and a 2010 991 gen2 turbo ( daily drove all ) Got a ND2 BBS / BREMBO club 3 months ago . The Miata blows away the G body 911 as a pure drivers car on pretty much all keep points except steering feel ( 911 Hydraulic) Imho the ND2 club is one of the best true sports cars I’ve ever driven ( I’ve hadserious exotics in the past) Below is my top 5 owned drivers cars 1 - 16M scuderia 2 - M3 CSL 3 - ND2 Club 4 - 2014 Z28 5 - 458
That's pretty amazing that you even rank the ND2 Miata over a 458. What this says to me is that you maybe have a similar take on what makes a car fun to drive - part of that equation being real-world usability.
@@AndrewDoesCarStuff I got the 458 in its first year super low mileage , It was great and I daily drive it for a year including track day and road trip The 16M was way rawer thigh not as easy/ fast but honestly the ND2 club has totally blown me away IF my ego had not got in the way I’d have got one way earlier I also daily drove the first gen boxster spyder for 18 months I prefer the ND2
I had a ‘76 911S and it was… just okay… Hard to beat on it when you know that someone is willing to pay a ton of money for it just to sit in the garage to take it out to CC on Sundays.. sold it. On the other hand I had 4 Miatas so far. Also had C5Z06, 928S4, e30, Focus ST.. Enjoyed them all for different reasons. Life is short, drive all the fun cars.
"Life is short, drive all the fun cars." Love this. I agree wholeheartedly. Variety is the spice of life. My only problem is that I get attached, so it's hard to experience different cars if you never sell anything 😆
Nice video! I have driven both, and both are great cars. The Miata was a lot more cramped, however it fit like a glove. The new Miata had enough power and felt and drove like a classic sport's car. The 911 is better quality, better looking in my opinion, and more fun to drive. The Miata is much more usable for a daily, cheaper to own and performs better when comparing price. The Porsche is a third car for weekend drives. The Miata would be a great choice for a daily driver.
If you tried my flawless 1986 Targa with 950 gearbox, it would probbably be more enthusiastic about classic 911. You should add the feeling that you belong to crazy car guys that 911 offers you unlike most other sports car and then you realize that the classic 911 price is not too high.
Maybe if you got your hands on a BMW E21 323i, you'd find it somewhat more pleasant in low speed driving and commuting. Perhaps similar to the beautiful Manta you've got. It's an underappreciated classic in my mind. But I'm a bit biased having had an E21 as a restomod project car. 😊 I'm so glad I found your channel around the time you made the videos about recording audio from engine bays and etc.
Thanks for sticking with me! E21 is a cool looking little car. I didn't really talk about my Opel much in this vid, but I do find it more enjoyable to drive than this particular 911 as well. More responsive at "normal" speeds, easier steering, easier clutch operation, overall lighter feeling. Though admittedly the 911 handles much better.
'Under 4000 RPM ' ? That's for rolling around town. You HAVE to be willing to push the car up towards the redline where it wants to live. The try doing it on some windy roads. Then try it on a racetrack. Do that and you will start to understand what that car is made to do.
That makes sense. I could see some glimpses of that when I did push it up in the revs. I think for me, a big part of the fun factor includes usability in the real world, which is maybe not this car's strongest suit.
@AndrewDoesCarStuff you simply need to learn how to drive cars with a torque curve high on the rev range.
Some years ago I had two BMW E34s, a 535 and a 525. I enjoyed driving the (slower) 525 MORE, because I had to keep the revs up to extract performance.
Learn how to do this and it will transform your relationship with every car - your Miata is a well-behaved housecat but also a GREAT little wildcat.
Re your comment "fun... the real world" - this sounds like a Zombie World of black-and-white TV. Experience life in colour!
@@ingrampowell9111Agree.3500rpm is where my miata just wakes up. The higher it revs the more oil it gets. And constantly low Revs arent healthy. You can even notice how he felt during the last ride while warming up. Momentum cars are best. 💪
no hate but you chose a bum example. I’ve been around Porsches literally my entire life, I was driven home from the hospital in a 993. I’ve been incredibly lucky to drive several G body 911s, and I literally didn’t experience a single problem you mentioned. I’ve never had issues with heavy steering or play in the steering wheel, never had a shifter with that much play, never had issues with the clutch feel. No, it's not fast. If you want something fast, buy a turbo. To be fair, I also would never ever say that a g body 911 is meant for town driving. I would strongly suggest you find a 993 or 964, those are the real gems. My first car was an NB Miata, and as fantastic as it is it has never ever been close to holding a candle to my dad’s 993 in any aspect except service costs. I would very much urge you to find a better and more modern example.
After hearing you compare it to your Miata so much, you really really should’ve chosen a 993 or at least a 964. I won’t mince words, comparing a car of this vintage to a 90s Miata is pointless.
I bet that silver spoon made food taste nice too😂
This was the example that I had a chance to drive, so I had to take what I could get. If someone wants to lend me a better sorted and/or newer example, I'm all for it!
@@AndrewDoesCarStuff fair enough. If you really want peak 911 you need a late model (1996-1998) 993 C2S
First he complains about issues with the shifter and steering rack on an example that obviously needs refurbishment. Then he's at a literal stand still and complaining about the "heavy steering". Seriously? Then the 'best' comment of the video, "I took it all the way to about 3,000 RPM and it didn't seem to have much power actually." 😂 I have a 550HP ZR1. He wouldn't find it very impressive below 3K RPM either...
I stopped the video at that point for obvious reasons. There is a difference between someone having an opinion that differs from your own but offers valid points of contention and someone that doesn't have a clue what they are talking about. Picking apart the condition of a specific example of a car is not valid unless it is a common issue among well maintained cars of the same model. Criticising the acceleration below 3K RPM is utterly asinine in sports car review.
I owned a pair of NA Miatas back in the day. The second one was an R-package with factory Bilsteins and no power steering. Loved it as it was barrel-o'-monkeys kind of fun. Then I moved to California and bought an aircooled Beetle. Loved it so much that I wanted a faster Beetle and went through multiple Porsches including a 914, 912, 912E and some 80s 911s.
The 911 is a grown up car. With the right setup it can be a fantastic canyon carver, a touring car or a track rat. The 915 gear box that's present in the '78 in the video requires some serious work to get good. My '84 had an aftermarket coupler, an internal short shifter and external short shifter too. Rebuild the dreaded 1-2 gears as well and it shifted extremely well, very mechanical. Next car I had was '87 with the G50 box and hydraulic clutch. Pretty modern in operation. I've owned both a coupe and a Targa before, prefer the latter for the fun convertible feel.
To the people saying that 911 is like the Beetle... well, not really. Early ones (especially the 912 with the 4 cyl engine) do feel quite Beetle-like. But the later cars from late 70s and into the 80s feel quite different. Yes, there are some similarities and a few parts even interchange but overall aside from the basic layout they're quite different. I still own my Beetle btw and enjoy driving both it and the 911 any day.
Thanks for adding your point of view & experience, very interesting.
912e 🔥
Great review! Next time try a sorted one. A worn out and defect Miata probably no joy either. Love the video anyway 👍
Edit: Looking forward to the next episode😉
Yep you are right. I need to try some others before I really have a complete opinion. Thanks!
Sorry but this car needs work...this comparison is Bull...t !
100% what i thought
40+ year old bushings.. of course it feels like crap.
The Miata has already been forgotten . Just because you couldn’t find you’re ass if it had a bell on it completely removes your opinion, I forgive you. Don’t quite you’re day job.
Yes it lives up to the rep. I can’t get gas without someone asking about it. You belong in a Miata.
Right! Gee, it's amazing how much better non worn out parts feel. I hate it SOOOO much when non car people review cars.
shit ?isn´t it
You're basing your opinion on an obviously worn 46 year old car that is the current darling of collector car speculators. If you're looking for a bargain in the 911 line, check out the 996 variant from 1999 to 2004. Not without some issues of their own, but bigger, more comfortable, faster, and better suited to modern day traffic. Plus most people turn their noses up at them so you can still get them at reasonable prices.
I have driven a few Miatas and always enjoyed it, but never enough to actually spend my money on one. I have driven every variety of 911 (and 912) from 1968 through 2023 and actually purchased one.
Thanks for that perspective! 996 is definitely the cheap one right now, I'd be interested to try one. Probably a good bang for the buck. Which generation do you own?
@@AndrewDoesCarStuff none now unfortunately. I had to switch some cars around due to family needs.
I did own a '99 Carrera 4. If you're looking for something light and tossable, I'd recommend sticking with a narrow bodied Carrera 2 from that era. Still some good buys to be had around the $20K range. Ironically, the convertibles tend to sell for less than the coupes.
The 2005 and up cars, 997 and forward, start getting heavier and bigger, moving more into the GT category.
I own a 996 (1999 Carrera coupe) and a Miata (2018 soft top). The Mazda holds its own in the fun department, but the 911 is clearly the more serious sports car and is a shit ton faster. Compared to its air-cooled predecessors, the 996 is objectively superior in almost every dimension (just read the reviews at the time!) although some of the romance and build quality of the old cars was lost. The market has passed harsh judgement on the 996, thank goodness because I picked up my brilliant little demon for a song. And my early build car still has a lot of the character of the old cars, with lots of mechanical noise and a full leather interior that still smells sweet. And it’s petite like the old cars, as well.
@@kevinrowley2579 Thanks for the detail, that sounds like it would be fun. Light and tossable would be preferable I think. I hope I can try one sometime!
@@boffam00 Thanks for adding your experience. Cool that you own both cars and they scratch a different itch for you. The "fun" vs. "serious" factor sounds about right. Really depends on how you like to drive, and what kind of roads (or tracks) are available in your area. Hope I get to try a 996 sometime.
The Datsun Z cars were quite good in the late 70's.
Nope. Compared to Datsun Zed cars of the early 70s and late 80s, those of the late 70s were _not_ good at all.
@@assininecomment1630 Did you own one? I did, a 1978 280Z. Great car from my experience.
Who cares about a car you owned,@@dakotahayden6937? You're comparing one car you owned, with something/s you haven't mentioned.
I'm comparing Datsun Zed-cars in the late 70s (slow, low-powered, heavy, ugly), with other Datsun Zed-cars (those that had far better power-to-weight ratios, had less of the gauche styling 'gargoyles' of the 280ZX).
In your country, many so-called performance cars were poorly modified to comply with early pollution control laws. The 280Z was one of them. At least the 911 still had some decent performance, and hadn't been made heavy and ugly.
I'm glad that by the end you were starting to understand what the car is all about
As an SC owner it’s true that it is a unique experience that’s not for everyone. For the true Porschefile, we love it, and yet we also appreciate our modern Porsche sports cars as well. Both are complimentary but vastly different experiences. The air cooled cars demand your attention but you can only get the man and machine connection to the fullest extent with these wonderful cars. The car in the video needed some typical maintenance items for sure, once corrected your experience would be much enhanced.
funny, i bought a NA miata while shopping for my perfect G body 911, when i finally made the move (to a 3.2 g50 one), it took me almost a year to actually prefer the porsche to the miata! the secret to liking the porsche is the commitement to the turn and the corner exit grip, when you manage to get the trail slightly off out of a turn, it gives you such a good feeling! i can do this almost all the time with the miata but its just too easy, on the porsche, it feels like an experience lol
People don't like to admit it, but the G-body cars were an awkward transition period where the tires got wider but before they implemented power assistance to any of the controls, so everything feels super heavy in these cars. The best 911s are really the early short-wheelbase longhood cars, '65-'68. There's a reason that these are so expensive in comparison.
Your points are spot on. These are old, awkward, smelly cars. They are far from fast. However, they are very well engineered. With that, they become one of the most rewarding relationships you could have with a machine. Every tiny bushing, cable, strut, alignment, replacement, or adjustment is felt through the controls and switch gear like no other car.
If you really want disappointment drive a 308 Ferrari...
Funny you mention the 308, that's been on my mind for a while as a somewhat "attainable" Ferrari that I'd be very curious to try. I think the GTB in particular is beautiful to look at. But I'm sure you're right about it not being particularly great to drive.
You are born for Miata, dont try anything else
Miatas are terrific cars! I owned an NB for a couple of years, can’t argue with the Miata. But I think you drove a very rough SC. And I’ve also owned a 964 for 26 years. Surprisingly, the Miata I owned reminded me of my old 911. I’ve not driven an SC, but have driven 3.2 Carreras, 993s, 996s, Boxsters, and also own a 2011 Boxster Spyder. The aircooled 911 is a bit of an acquired taste, but it gets under your skin and is my all-time fave.
I would agree with you completely. I did drive a bunch of SC cars, especially the early ones with smog pumps and no o2 sensor were not great running. This is not the way the were designed to be by Porsche, its how they had to be modified to be sold in CA. The 3.2 was the first 50 state car, and has a MUCH better modern fuel injection system.
Comparing apples and oranges and trying to make an argument makes zero sense.
Apples and oranges would have been me comparing this to my Volvo 240 and saying that the Volvo is better because it has more cargo space.
the more you drive the 911, the better it gets. And thats coming from an NB miata owner~
first off, it's always a good day to experience a Porsche. Second, As a 24 year Porsche Owner, I kind of agree with you and cringed when you jumped into a 1978 model that needs A LOT of love. You are comparing apples and oranges. This example looks like one that was not well taken care of. Also, if you compared similar model year Porsches to your Miata, than I think you would have a much different opinion.
Fair enough, and I think you're right about comparing a similar era. If someone offers to lend me one for another review, I'll be happy to do an update :)
Miatas are great but I own 2 911SCs and I wouldn't trade either one for a Miata.
I wouldn’t trade half of a 911SC for a Miata. What a ridiculous video. Enjoy those 911s, my friend.
It's always interesting to hear the first impression of an old 911 from a modern era driver and you confirm what I've always expected. Most modern drivers would not like driving this car. The steering's too heavy, the clutch is too stiff, you have to press the brakes too hard! And the first one I ever drove had the 915 transmission and it seemed to me to have more in common with a John Deere product than a sports car. Then I drove my friends '88 with the G50 and my impression totally changed. As the happy owner of an '87 Targa for over 30 years I'd say it checks every sports car box like no other old sports car could, especially since you can drive the piss out of it and it never complains. You might work up a sweat driving it but it never overheats and the brakes never fade. It's always interesting and an odd slice of bratwurst unavailable anywhere else.
That G50 changed the game back in the day. I don’t disagree with the OP…older Porsches can be a bit of an acquired taste for sure. Steering wheel issue is simply a new bearing if I can call it that. I still love them though, crazy how prices have taken them beyond any hope of me getting one….now a more modern 996 with a manual! OP, go drive a 996 just for comparisons sake!
@timmusick9875 Thanks for verifying my take on some of the issues with this particular car. Good to hear that you've had great experiences with later ones. As I mentioned in the vid, I definitely want to try some others just to get a better idea for what the fuss is about.
@@grantlingley1385 I'd love to! Just need to find someone to lend me one...
Completely agree the G50 is the one to have. Also 87 brought the the added fan to the oil cooler, and the revised fuel mapping chip in the ECU (258 chip I think) with 217hp. I also hear the 930 tie rods make a big difference, not sure if you have done that but curious your thoughts!
3:15 that happens when people dont take care of their car...
the clutch probabaly needs new oil and also some lubricant.
the shifter needs new bushings, obviously. I mean this car is how old? 42 years?
I bet the owner took care of it with washing, paint correction and rust removal / prevention / motor and gear oil changes but never swapped out those old nasty bushings etc.
swapping old shifter and suspension bushings out + motor bushings will transform a car.
and seing this, i wouldnt trust the tires and brakes either, without checking them first.
I have a 2012 Miata retractable.These little sports cars are reliable and as much fun as you need
Loved the video, really engaging. I’ve never driven a 911 but I’ve always wanted to give one of the air cooled cars a shot.
Hi Andrew,
I love the drive through Hope Ranch, the only prettier site, than that SC, seen running though Hope Ranch is Kathy Ireland.
As pointed out your base of comparison was a 14 year newer Miata. Just in those 14 years there was enough automotive advancement to make a base model Mazda feel lively in comparison, especially if you don’t know how to drive a 911. Thst said, It was nice to see you began to figure out that 3500 rpm is what the motor should drop to after you up shift no lower. After the car is warm you shouldn’t be below 3500, Your in town driving included.
I will say you do get one thing automatically with a Miata you don’t get with a 911, a very colorful rainbow sticker for your bumper.
I had a '72 Beetle when I was in high school in the late '80s and called it "the Porsche." And I drove it like one, even having the rear end come around on me a couple times! I love the 911 and would readily make room for a nice air-cooled version in my garage, but I do have to admit I'm getting a little sick of them.
As a fellow Miata owner I will agree with you, the little car is amazing. A Japanese sports car is well sorted out, reliable, durable, and cheap to keep. People pay $50kish for a Porsche because they can.
Air Cooled Porsche Owners: (Samuel L. Jackson Pulp Fiction Voice) "Say…Miata…one more time!"
"it's a little scary - I don't know if I like that." you might want to stay within your comfort zone - the beloved Miata.
To clarify that remark, I meant that because you have to plant your foot on the floor and wait for the power to come on, by the time the power surge comes, you're already at the next corner and have to slow down and start over. Admittedly I needed more time to get used to it and adjust my driving, I'm not used to screaming around at high RPMs.
@AndrewDoesCarStuff, you change down, using heel-and-toe, just BEFORE the corner, so that you exit onto the straight with the revs already where they need to be to accelerate.
Learn how to balance brakes v. engine-braking, using clutch and heel-and-toe, learn where the power comes in, THEN you drive her.
Learn this and you will discover why "driving" is not truly DRIVING, without a clutch. It will change your life. (Read that sentence again).
@AndrewDoesCarStuff, this applies to every car with a clutch, and the Miata's pedals are well-suited to heel-and-toeing.
Additionally, rear engine rear drive cars like to be pushed hard through corners, the more you accelerate the better your grip. This can be counterintuitive if you're used to cars that prefer off throttle in the corners
If you’d keep it above 3500 rather than running up to 3500, you'd not be waiting for anything. Theres a redline for a reason at least approach it.
I’m fortunate enough to own and drive a 2021 ND2 Miata 6 sp manual (goodwin racing exhaust and progress lowering springs, 1” all around and stiffer) and a 1999 Porsche 911 (996.1) with a racing suspension (6K in suspension mods, adj bilsteins, H&R lowering springs, spacers on front and rear wheels and added sway bar (rear).
Comparing the 2 is complete apples and oranges.
The 911 is hydraulic, very analog accurate steering and throttle cable wired. Nothing like the SC in the video. The shifter is completely smooth and accurate- a pure joy really. The only real accurate part of the video is the “4K and above” driving experience.
Both cars are amazing, with little modifications, high performing when pushed and only revelatory when pushed or tracked, higher speed driving- particularly cornering, twisties (autocross) or any curved track.
Yes, this 911 SC and my 996 911 Carrera really don’t like around town, slower driving, particularly stop and go traffic. It’s completely meant to be driven, driven hard, when driven.
My ND2 is way way easier to drive in slower, around town, and can be rung out extremely well when needed. Any older 911- not so much, I’d posit. That’s been my experience as such. Both are world class (yes the ND2 (even stock) is world class), but the 911 is a unique, inimitable experience and drive with a huger power band, torque and racing capacity on a larger track or canyon carver drive- again, more than nuance- older 911, air cooled thru 996 or 997 911 is apples and oranges. Also compounded by the fact this SC and my 996.1 coupe is fixed roof, and my ND2 is a soft top. Again, Miata (lighter , 50/50 balance and poise, slower, little torque, vs. older 911, torquey, rear bias and amazing HP per overall weight ratio, 300 hp in a 2900 lb car, accurate, “light” front hydraulic steering, rather than electric steering (although quite great) in the ND2 Miata, is too hard to succinctly approach to compare on so many levels.
With any vintage Porsche, and yes, the 911SC now qualifies as "vintage", you have to be prepared to put up with things don't exist with other cars. The sloppy steering wheel and shifter are problems, and you've corrected them. However, it would be more accurate to rate a 911 model that is a contemporary to your Miata. If yours is a 90s era Miata, then the 964/993 model would be more appropriate. Based on your views, I'd say you're a 993 guy through and through. The 993 is the easiest to drive, the quietest and most comfortable of the air-cooled era, and it has working A/C. IMHO, it's the nicest air cooled 911 to own, too. Of course, there are maintenance issues with any car, and 911s can be very expensive. But it's by far the most rewarding car I have ever owned.
I'd love to try a 993 if I get a chance!
From a long time Carrera 3.2 owner, that moment you felt at 13:00 is why the fascination still exists with these cars, none of the many shortcomings matter at that point. Cool review!
Very understandable! We car guys are often willing to overlook drawbacks because we find something special about the experience. I can see the appeal for sure.
Can't understand that you are saying it does not have enough power - especially not when comparing it to a Manta A, which is half the power.
I would suggest you compare your Miata to a 981 Porsche Boxster best in S or GTS variant that would be a lovely video.
So many of the complaints in the video are either faults of the car being worn out and not properly maintained, and or the year. Early SC are not the ones to have, especially with CA emissions smog pump choking it - this isn’t how they were designed to be in Germany, or even in other states. This also assumes the engine is in top shape and tuned well (something that takes skill with CIS), and given the other areas in dis-repair it makes me wonder if the engine or trans are really up to snuff. How good is the compression, leak down, and plugs (rich/lean/stoich)? Also, keep in mind that the 915 gearbox while great when setup right (few are) is very old tech, as is K Jet/ CIS. It’s 60s era tech evolved, not even an oxygen sensor. I’d encourage you to drive a late 3.2 or 964 50 state car, that’s a much more fair comparison. Saying this as someone that’s worked on and driven both NB and ND Miatas and various 911s. They are both great cars. Keep in mind also the Miata is fun with no space behind the rear seats and it’s tough to put up with the noise and comfort issues for a long day, that’s not at all true in a 911. The way I see it, one chooses each car for different use cases. If you are going to compare them, please do a year for year comparison ie compare the same year Miata and 911. This comparison as it stands is flawed (1) the car is not mechanically up to snuff, but is compared to what looks like a super nice sorted Miata (2) the years are so far off the base features are not even close. A 964 with power steering, modern fuel injection, etc would be much more fair. Or the other way around would be to compare to a first gen rx7. I say this as someone with great respect and appreciation for both Mazda and Porsche.
If your benchmark is the Miata, almost no other car will have the same buttocks to blacktop feel. The raw "horse and rider" design philosophy is probably a little unrefined for der Vaterland. When driving one of our other 4 cars, I have to adjust braking onset and corner entry speeds from the miata standards of my commuter car NB.
Your video is on point.
The 911 does have a sweet spot.
Also, there is a huge difference between the performance envelope of a 1978 car compared to a 2020 car.
I appreciate He Mentioned his height 6'4....more room than I thought in there.... (I'm a professional driver)...Miata is a good benchmark for how a front engined sports car should feel like... The further back the engine, the earlier you need to influence the vehicles center of gravity.
All 4 brakes are in front of the engines weight, So the brake bias will be setup differently....So repair the car, then learn to drive..Late 70's produced VW rabbit, Mercedes 190E, updates to the Datsun Z... Don't t forget the world's Baddest rally car before all wheel drive, the non Americas Ford Escort!
Not apple to apple. I purchased my first Porsche which is a 2006 997 Carrera S in April 2023. I subsequently purchased a 2014 Miata NC Club. I drive the Miata much more as it is more nimble and feel the driver and car are more in unity. The Porsche has its magic of its own. Effortless acceleration and handling in a different sense...
Saying the 911 is "based on the Beetle platform" is like saying every modern front engine rear drive car is based on the Model T Ford platform!
The only thing a Porsche 911 from 1964 onward had in common with a VW Beetle of the same year is the motor uses horizontally opposed cylinders, is air cooled and is mounted in the back. That's it, nothing else is similar. Oh, sorry - both were made in Germany and designed by a guy surnamed Porsche.
Awesome Vid-but how does it compare to the Honda CRX?
LOVED my Dodge Omni, well it was also Plymouth Horizon, same car but VERY FUN to drive. Passed a many mustangs in it with a 22" sub thumping in the back. Carol Shelby had some influence, just saying for those that do not know.
The Datsun 280z was another well made car from the late 1970’s.
Fair! Though most people I've heard talk about Z cars say that the 280 wouldn't be their first choice, most seem to strongly prefer the original 240. I haven't driven any of them so can't comment. Add it to the list! Can someone lend one to me?
How tall are you? I think that might be the problem.
I have an ND generation Miata manual shift among our current cars, and it’s a joy. I’ve considered many times buying an air cooled Porsche, but Im thinking now the cost and hassle factor to keep it going is only increasing. You definitely don’t need to suffer that much to have a great driving experience.
This guy would make a Costco pizza look fun... Thought he might fall over.
Where you should have driven that car is early morning run down Stanwood to Sycamore, then up Coyote to West Camino Cielo, or take Mountain drive and up Gibraltar. You missed a great opportunity by only puttering around the city streets of SB, but at least you drove through HR.
And yes, you identified the thing about a 911, it’s very “street able”, sedate and mundane as a daily, then you can kick it in gear and ring it out through the corners. Also, it’s nearly 50 years old, that’s more like 25-30 years older than your Miata, which is also a kick ass like sports car, but no 911.
Well I have good news for you, because I did go for a drive up Gibraltar and recorded it with multiple cams & mics, so that'll be coming shortly as a standalone video. As pretty as the road is, it's quite tight and narrow, so you can't carry much speed or use all the beans. But still a fun drive, I think.
@@AndrewDoesCarStuff cool, looking forward to seeing that. I also like that you fixed some of the old car pigglies and have the before and after experience. The hype of a 911 is that it is designed to be “tame”, even sedate, for daily use while having the balls for spirited driving, even racing (period comparable cars). Also, as a collector car, Porsche owners tend to ignore mileage where Ferrari Owners freak out over every mile. 911’s are way more reliable than most high end collector cars. Consider yourself very fortunate if you’re lucky enough to buy, keep, & drive one.
How did you record the shots from behind? They look buttery smooth
Stuck a DJI Pocket 2 on a friend's car and had it track me. It can be shaky at times but works pretty well for an easy setup!
Appreciate the review. Maybe now they will come down in price and I can finally get one
Miata is a great car: Mazda squarely hit the target with the first generation, and the design has evolved to near perfection over the years, but you must consider that Miata intentionally drew inspiration from sports cars of old: "Imagine an MG or Triumph that you can actually drive," was the stated goal. (I read "Road and Track" and "Car and Driver.") Certainly a sensible approach to building a new affordable, two-seat sports car, targeted toward enthusiasts who had long since put their British steeds out to pasture or sporty people who were just getting interested in cars and didn't want a reliability hassle. The entire Mazda parts bin was laid open: A tried and true drive train installed in a nicely styled, tiny roadster body with a modern suspension and steering. "Tossable handling." The roof didn't leak! Reliable electrics too! Mazda tried around 100 possible exhaust system designs to get the "right" sports car sound! Yay Mazda! You hit a home run! The tuner market is huge too! But how can you compare a heavily conjured, modern, purpose built Japanese sports car to a German sports car with roots going back to the 1930's? To get to the 911 SC that you drove took fifty years of development--mostly through racing successes--and this SC is over four decades old and is still driving! (To be accurate, the 911 SC has humble beginnings that actually precede the venerable VW Beetle.) Yes, the 911 SC and the VW Beetle have rear engines, and there the similarity ends. Isn't a Ferrari 512 BB just a glorified Fiat X 1/9? A friend made the comment that my 1988 3.2L Carrera is "Nothing more than a glorified Volkswagen." So, I took him for a ride. Having nearly soiled his drawers, He will never make that statement again.
Try out a 2009 or newer Boxster S. It will address all your very valid concerns in a next level Miata like manner.
Thanks, I'll have to add that to my list! Would like to try it.
Objectively, you're probably right (I’ve driven several Miatas and 911s) but whether a car drives better than Miata is beyond the point. Car preference is highly subjective - the car on the poster of your teenage bedroom is the one you lust after. If your poster showed a Miata - awesome, I totally get it! My posters displayed 911s and those are the cars are I feel so fortunate to have in my garage and drive. A new Miata is probably better in every measurable way but it would never give me the joy of my ‘teenage heroes’.
Yep I agree, preference is subjective. Funny story about the bedroom poster, mine as a kid was a Dodge Viper. Glad I moved on from that idea. But I never lusted after the Miata, in fact I probably turned my nose up at it before I drove one, like a lot of people. A buddy in high school had a silver '91 NA and he was nice enough to let me learn to drive manual in it. My young self was blown away at how fun it was to drive. And now that I have one of my own, I enjoy the simple, unpretentious nature of it. No need to impress anybody else when you're having that much fun. And no need to spend your life savings either.
Nailed the town vs country driving experience. I have a ‘79 and driving around town feels like punishment.
I've had both and the miata is a wonderful sports car while the 911 is an interesting car. I no longer have any miatas.
Well, you were honest about your impressions and I can’t fault you for that. Ultimately, I don’t really think you were honest with yourself though. That’s sort of a different thing.
This car obviously is well-worn. It had a bad steering column bushing, bad shifter coupler and shifter bushings, probably a somewhat worn suspension, and who knows what that 915 gearbox has been through (or when the last time it was rebuilt/serviced)?
With your Miata, that’s like having the linkage in your transmission and the transmission itself be really worn/in need of a rebuild. It’s like unbolting the steering wheel from your steering column and letting it flop around. Probably also like before you replaced the suspension on your Miata too.
Worn cars with worn parts drive like shit. Some of them don’t drive at all. I inherited an SC and the shifter linkage was so bad that when I was driving it one day, I had to pull over because I literally couldn’t get it into second gear. It had gotten so bad that it basically wouldn’t select ANY gear.
That clutch needed an adjustment as well, now that I remember it.
Point is, SCs are great cars. You got into one that may be fine cosmetically, but was a dog mechanically. It’s no different than getting into any car with serious mechanical faults and wear and tear.
Now, Miatas are great cars too. I’ve driven my fair share of them and they’re arguably one of the best sports cars ever made, so it’s up against stiff competition. I think if you drove a properly sorted/well taken care of example of an SC, it’d be a much different experience.
It’s never going to be a Miata. It never was designed to be, really. But there’s a charm to it being imperfect.
Also, ultimately, when you drive a Miata, you go home in a Mazda. You’re seen in a Mazda. You tell others you drive a Mazda. Great car, still a Mazda.
You drive a 911, you do all those things in a Porsche. Like it or not, that matters
Yeah, it's a shame my first chance to drive one of these cars happened to be one with these issues. I did subsequently fix the steering column and shifter, which is in the video after this - ruclips.net/video/iujjTzrFglU/видео.html - and that did make quite a difference. But I agree that I need to drive more examples to have a better understanding. These chances just don't come up much.
I can see the 911's appeal for sure. But the price difference, especially for an old air-cooled one, is hard to justify. To your point, I think most of that is in the brand recognition / iconic status. Some people like to show off and flex their cool posessions. But if you simply want to have fun driving, Miata is hard to beat for the money.
I would suggest the Lotus Europa for a great 1970's sportscar!
Someone who does not rev a 911 will not get a Europa!
Even the Renault-engined Europas need to be reved.
@@ingrampowell9111 they need to be K-swapped for some real fun!
He said he's 6'4" a Lotus Europa is probably his shoe size
Andrew, a 1978 911 SC does not have mechanical fuel injection. It has Bosch K-Jetronic electronic fuel injection. This EFI started with the 1974 911 and Carrera. MFI was last on the 1973 cars, most well known the 2.7 Carrera RS which was never sold in the U.S. MFI can be somewhat challenging to tune and parts are expensive. If your state emission laws permit, carburetor conversions (Webers are no longer made, but PMOs are exceptionally common and I have them on my 1975 2.7 Carrera) offer a significant performance increase. You should also understand there is likely no other engine or car which has won more motorsports events than the flat-6 and the 911.
The engine is designed to be driven at the limit and for 24 hours. Thats why it wins at LeMans.
Well, K-Jet is essentially a mechanical injection system (fuel is metered by a mechanical device rather than a computer), but I realize it isn't usually referred to that way. I had a 1979 Volvo with K-Jet and had some fun diagnosing fuel pressure issues on it.
@AndrewDoesCarStuff sorry . I'm not buying that explanation. MFI produced significant performance improvements over K jetronic. EFI decreased performance. MFI was expensive and parts to repair or replace are expensive. PMO carburetors have been a standard upgrade from EFI for decades. My 2.7 RS motor with PMOs produces 230 hp vs the 73 2.7 RS spec of 210 hp with MF I.
I’ve been thinking about an air cooled 911, but just not sure. I don’t know anyone personally that owns one. I have a Factory Five Cobra, and a 2015 Mini Cooper S 2.0L Turbo, and the Mini is just as much fun to drive as the Cobra.
It's hard to say if an air cooled 911 would be "more fun" than the cars you already have. It's a different experience for sure. Only way to know is to spend some time with one, which is easier said than done! I was lucky to be able to spend some time driving this one, despite the issues. My whole thing is to look at the experience objectively and decide how I feel, rather than listening to the hype. We're all different. Just look at the one commenter who likes his ND2 Miata better than a Ferrari 458.
Pls Drive a sorted example, with new bushings, setup, etc. Keep it a 3500-5000 and go play. You can’t drive these like a front engine JDM car. There should be NO slop in the steering column.
Car of year in 1978 was the Porsche 928. Rear wheel drive water cooled V8 up front. What's not to like. And not stupid expensive.
They sure were stupid expensive when new!
I love 928s also.
“Took it all the way 3,500rpm” but the car should t be shifted before 4,500! This car needs a lot of work, but he doesn’t understand the vehicle he’s driving at all.
I've been gaining this for years. I had a 79sc with a 3.2 swap and a 90 Miata. Sold the 911 and kept the Miata for 7yrs until someone hit it. Loved loved Loved the little car. Always though the 911 was nothing more then a big beetle had no regrets selling it ....... Well other then i sold it 3 years to soon. If i had waited man would i have made some real money for it. Bought a 03 boxster s to replace the Miata, very fun car for not a lot on money. Damn reliable too i drive it everywhere can't complain
Thanks for validating my first-timer opinion on this! Also a couple of people have brought up the Boxster, so I think I need to try one of those too if I can.
Have you ever even driven a beetle? If you had there is no way that you'd make the comparison. I have driven Beetles extensively. I've owned four of them. Some years ago I drove a 1970 911 and it was a huge eye opener. I had owned quite a few other performance cars and motorcycles. Faster yes, but that little 911 was much more direct than anything else I had driven. It was a blast to drive just puttering around at 45 mph. A modern sports car is numb and isn't really enjoyable until hitting triple digit speeds. The more modern, then more numb. A first gen Miata has some of that same feel, but definitely doesn't match the old 911. How could it? A Miata has power steering and power brakes. A beetle is more raw, but has a ton of play in the steering. The suspension is far inferior with a lot of body roll. The build quality of the 911 is superior to any Beetle as well. I now have a classic 911 hotrod and it is so far from any Beetle or Miata that I have to laugh when I read comments like yours.
To each their own. I’ve driven tons of beetles and still own one. I had a backdate SC with a 3.2 swap to me it was just loud, slow and cost me a ton of money to build. Did it have strong points, absolutely. Where they enough for me to keep the car, no. You say an Miata isn’t engaging because it has power steering. Have you ever driven a Miata!!!! Let alone one with a correctly tuned suspension a turbo or supercharged! Sorry these are every bit if not more “ engaging” then g body 911’s. Again everyone has an opinion
@@silver911100 Don't put words in my mouth. I said, "A first gen Miata has some of that same feel, but doesn't match the old 911." Power steering and power brakes put something between driver and machine. If by "engaging" you mean feel then yes, the 911 is more engaging than any Miata. The steering has more feel as well as the brakes. You can't argue that. The Miata's are powered and the 911's aren't. Yes, I've driven many Miatas on road and track. Never driven a supercharged Miata. I fail to see why you even brought that up. We aren't talking about power. There are 700HP air cooled classic 911's out there. There are Miatas out there with big V8's. So what? That's not what we're talking about.
Eh wherever you have your opinion I have mine and just like assholes they both stink.
Bless Your Heart.
BTW, the best Porsche is the 914.
that is mechanical based fuel injection but not like fully cam driven mfi Porsches . It is Bosch CIS. The 1978 911SC is one of my favorite Porsches. That steering column is lose. Common upgrade back in the day was an Automotion or AJ USA short shift kit. Now a days there are multiple 915 shifters available. In 1987 the 911 got the G50 with a hydraulic clutch. Those seats look aftermarket. Great looking car. Car also has offset wheels. Should be 225/50 in rear and 205/55 up front.
If you want to see mechanical fuel injection on my youtube page i dyno my Porsche 935 engine with mfi. It made 645hp at 1 bar of boost.
at the beginning i think you miss an important point.....with reference to the VW beatle, F Porsche actually designed the VW beatle (along with so many other cars and engines, some of the highest performance cars in the world at the time), so the 356 was a development of his own design.
The VW Beetle is so famous in it's long run of production but most people haven't a clue that it was literally designed by Ferdinand Porsche. Also, to be fair to this SC, I think you need to compare a '91 964 in good shape to your Miata. After all, this 911 is 13 years older than the Miata. And also, this one is not in top shape. I think if you find one in good shape with out those issues you reported, you will enjoy it even more. Anyhow, good reporting.
Very fair points! If I get a chance to drive a more contemporary 911 I'm sure it'll be miles better.
6:37, Dude, the late 70s were a dark time for US cars, but it was the golden era for Mercedes BMW and Porsche, check out BMW 635 csi, Mercedes 450SEL 6.9, 450SLC, Porsche 928, 911 Turbo, and yes, even 911 SC.
The 1983 911 with the 3.0 topped out at 176 MPH at 6800 RPM. Trust your oil temp.
Good cars from late '70's, early '80's (I'm from Brisbane, Australia-so slightly different: BMW 2002, BMW 633CSI, BMW E12 M535i.
Brought to you by: BMW Club of Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
I'm sensing a theme here 🤔
I have an 85 3.2,you have to grab them by the scruff of the neck, familiarity and practice makes all the difference. They are heavy and compromised, but when you know what you are doing there is no comparison. The only replacement for an air cooled 911,is another air cooled 911. It's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow.
and no the Miata is not in the same league.
Really enjoyed the new video Andrew but REALLY ENJOYED the last two minutes - whatta hoot!! 😁
Thanks Rich! Glad you enjoyed the bloopers. This video was quite a process.
You hit the nail on the head, Andrew. People don't get 911's from the late 70's because they drive so well. But you can't beat the sound of that engine and, as you noticed, it comes alive when you rev it. I would bet that the Miata is an all-around better sports car that is more fun to drive.
The Porche 911 is, well, as you noted, the big brother to The Bug with all that comes with that.
Glad to see another video from you; keep them coming and thanks so much.
Well said, thank you!
One thing to keep in mind is the new miata will depreciate in the next 10 years to next to nothing while this will keep going up. Not the reason to buy a car but certainly a nice to have. In the US the 180hp engine was for your rules, the euro engine was tuned to over 200hp, I have this and find it has torque from down low.
The steering wheel bushing is shot. It’s like $100 to fix it.
Yep, see the video after this one. Easy fix!
This was great. I really like your style. If I made a car channel I would mimick yours. My first two cars back in the countryside of Finland in the 70ies were beetles, and they were really "beaten" in backroads in the woods and on frozen lakes. So I have always thought I would like a 911, and further more, that I would be good at driving it. Well, the latter still remains to be seen. Greetings from Sweden.
PS: One more thing I really love about your channel, is that I get to see a bit of California, that promised land of my generation. (I´m model -55)
I would not compare this with a Miata - very different cars. The Porsche Boxster is much more a comparison to the Miata than any 911, and you can get early ones now pretty cheap, though they will always be more costly than a Miata. But you have to try that mid-engine chassis. It is an amazing feel. All that said, the 911 is about back roads and revving out the flat 6 engine. That is true even of modern 911s, They make fantastic race cars on road courses because of their traction and high-speed handling capabilities, provided you understand the physics of rear engine cars. The early 80s 915 transmissions are a different animal than the later G50 boxes with hydraulic clutches, which were really the firat modern gearboxes the 911 ever had. Remember before 1989, all 911s were essentially modern refinements of a 1963-vintage platform. Newer 911s are much easier to drive in the city, but you lose the fun of the smaller, quirkier vehicle, and the newer models are both bigger and heavier, even if they are way more powerful. I think you also had a not-so-great example (shaky steering, loose gearahift).
Fair take - I'll definitely try a Boxster if I get a chance!
It is beautiful on the outside -- love the whale tail -- but that one's had 120K miles of being ridden hard and put away wet.
I drove a 930 turbo of the same vintage in Germany and it was a precision instrument, closer to the Formula 2000 I had seat time in that summer than any normal high performance car including front-engine Porsches around that time. (The 944 was better balanced. You have to hang the tail of an old 911 out a few degrees before it gets fun. Don't lift off.)
My ND1 miata didn't make me stop thinking about Porsches until it had the full Whiteline sway bars kit and an engine tune for super premium gas. But when not driving it, I still think about Porsches.
Good grief. That steering wobble is not something I'd drive with, especially at any kind of speed. Seems that this car needed some TLC before you gave it a review. All that said, the answer is always Miata.
I hate when cars are offered for road tests which are not well maintained. You correctly called it, the shifter and the steering wheel both required some bushings. The same with the squeaky clutch which could most like just use a little oil. All are cheap and easy to fix, and would resolve the initial issues that you experienced. But now everyone thinks that 911's have sloppy shifters and steering, and squeaky clutches. This is absolutely not the case.
Trendy tax is applied to any vintage porsche. Dont pay trendy tax.
It’s too bad the prices are so inflated because they really are drivers cars. A well sorted example is a vastly different experience than the car in this video. That said if you cannot or will not maintain it yourself you better have a tall amount of cash for your mechanic!
Miata?? What a poor name! Its an MX5, one of the best driving cars you can find.
I have a 997 and love it, fantastic build quality.
I'm a Subaru fan really and own a 22b.
Great video, lived it..👌
Is the Miata a better overall car? Probably, but if they're parked side by side in a parking lot, no one's looking at the Miata. So plus 1 for the sexy factor of the Porsche. Plus I've wanted one since I saw a Carrera for the first time in the 70's. If I had the spare cash and garage space, I'd own a 70's 911. So maybe a bit biased. :)
My uncle prefered his Miata over his 84 911 and his Ferari 308. He loved the Miata out of the three down in Florida.
Wow, even the 308! I've always had eyes for those (especially the GTB) even knowing they aren't that quick and have typical Italian car foibles. Your uncle's opinion just goes to show how good the Miata is.
1:36 yea no. Porsche/vw literally stole that configuration as well as styling from Tatra. Pretty well known fact in the industry. Together with giving Tatra undisclosed amount of cash in settlement.
Thanks for adding that detail, I wasn't aware!
Loved the video Andrew. I'm sure the car is better after you fix it up, but 50k is simply isn't a good value for the driving experience.
People pay a premium because it's vintage, it's a classic shape, it's got a distinctive drivetrain.
I'm a bit biased but the best driving experience for the money that everyone sleeps on is the 986 S.
Well said, thanks. And you are right, people do tend to ignore the Boxster, but I bet that's pretty fun. Maybe I should see if I can rent one :D
@@AndrewDoesCarStuff the 986/987 generation is literally 85% identical to the 986/987 in parts and design, with the engine and transmission flipped in location. People just hate on them because they don't look like a 911, but in reality it's almost the same car with slightly detuned engines and better weight distribution.
I'm very practical and budget conscious, so to me it's rather funny that Porsche managed to expand their clientele by selling basically the same car for cheaper, and that enough people are snobby enough to continue to buy 911s.
I have owned many air cooled 911s 3 911 SCs. My last one had a complete suspension upgrade and it was an absolute Beast. And yes you have to get the RPMs up to get to the power . All that being said my more modern Boxster 986 S with a Tune and suspension upgrade would to eat this car for breakfast.. it is beautiful but I think slightly worn out. A sorted out 911 SC would probably be a lot more of a pleasure to drive..
I own a NA and ND2 and they are fantastic. But, I have a lot of experience with the 1984 911 Carrera. Sure, the power doesn't come on until 4k, the steering is heavy at low speeds, the clutch is heavy and the handling is tricky at very high speeds. The ergonomics date back to the 60's, too. But, these weren't downsides. If you really want a challenging and rewarding car to drive, this is it. I have driven one daily and loved it. I also loved that it was not a car for poseurs
I would also point out that this one had some faults (loose steering column and shifter, etc) that that you can't blame on the design. This car is pretty old, after all. It is also a car that you should spend time with before judging.
That said, I would try a 964 or newer if you want a more modern but still very911 experience.
Up to about 1973 the 911's were real sports cars, after 1974 and the pollution controls that choked the piece of junk 2.7 liter engines and the 5 mph bumpers they got heavier and had electric windows and such and they were more "GT cars", not the same. The most fun 911 I ever had was a 1969 not S model, they lengthened the wheelbase a few inches in 1969, anything to fight the "dreaded oversteer" (along with two batteries in the front trunk corners and even optional aluminum rear lids). The 1969 had a 2.0 liter motor that was very torquey at low rpm, lots of "grunt", my car had a quick shift mod too, helped a lot. 912's were great cars too, they rode marvelously, very even weight distribution, sucked up bumps in the road like a Cadillac, very different from something like a Corvette that drove like trucks they were so stiff. And the steering was always very light, no power steering, very light especially when the gas tank was near empty and if you let the air get low in the front tires you could really tell. I often kept a big bag of sand in the front trunk to give the steering more "feel" and tried to keep the gas tank full. I worked at CIA and I had a way of going home at the end of my work day where I would go out CIA's back entrance where I took a high speed sweeping turn to get onto the George Washington Parkway, would take it over 70mph and when the gas tank was low the front end would skitter across the ground from understeer, was scary but controllable, of course understeer is the opposite of what Porsches are famous for which is OVERSTEER from the engine in the back. Because the engine was in the back, 912's and 911's didn't pitch nose down under braking like regular cars at the time, the body lowered down evenly on the suspension under heavy breaking, allowing all four wheels to do work stopping the car, my 1997 Toyota Camry has NO weight on the rear wheels unless the back seat is full of kids as the designers intended, in rain the rear wheels lock up with almost no effort. But 911's were even weight front and back under braking and that's why brake disk diameter was same all around and why Porsches could out brake the big heavy front engine cars like Ferraris and Corvettes and such.
Great insight and story, thanks for adding something constructive! Good point about the braking / weight transfer. I definitely want to try an earlier 911 if I ever get the chance.
I had a weird realization a while back that a new Miata spec sheet in physical dimensions and performance is almost the same as a '80s 911....
I’ve owned a 72 R/S conversion an 87 3.2 G body Carrera ( with 12K mikes immaculate) and a 2010 991 gen2 turbo ( daily drove all )
Got a ND2 BBS / BREMBO club 3 months ago .
The Miata blows away the G body 911 as a pure drivers car on pretty much all keep points except steering feel ( 911 Hydraulic)
Imho the ND2 club is one of the best true sports cars I’ve ever driven ( I’ve hadserious exotics in the past)
Below is my top 5 owned drivers cars
1 - 16M scuderia
2 - M3 CSL
3 - ND2 Club
4 - 2014 Z28
5 - 458
That's pretty amazing that you even rank the ND2 Miata over a 458. What this says to me is that you maybe have a similar take on what makes a car fun to drive - part of that equation being real-world usability.
@@AndrewDoesCarStuff I got the 458 in its first year super low mileage ,
It was great and I daily drive it for a year including track day and road trip
The 16M was way rawer thigh not as easy/ fast but honestly the ND2 club has totally blown me away
IF my ego had not got in the way I’d have got one way earlier
I also daily drove the first gen boxster spyder for 18 months
I prefer the ND2
I had a ‘76 911S and it was… just okay… Hard to beat on it when you know that someone is willing to pay a ton of money for it just to sit in the garage to take it out to CC on Sundays.. sold it. On the other hand I had 4 Miatas so far. Also had C5Z06, 928S4, e30, Focus ST.. Enjoyed them all for different reasons.
Life is short, drive all the fun cars.
"Life is short, drive all the fun cars." Love this. I agree wholeheartedly. Variety is the spice of life. My only problem is that I get attached, so it's hard to experience different cars if you never sell anything 😆
You should fly to Chicago and take my 87 911 turbo for a joy ride!
Don't threaten me with a good time! I might just show up.
You were not shifting it correctly in order to get it to respond.
Nice video! I have driven both, and both are great cars. The Miata was a lot more cramped, however it fit like a glove. The new Miata had enough power and felt and drove like a classic sport's car. The 911 is better quality, better looking in my opinion, and more fun to drive. The Miata is much more usable for a daily, cheaper to own and performs better when comparing price. The Porsche is a third car for weekend drives. The Miata would be a great choice for a daily driver.
Valid take on this, thanks!
If you tried my flawless 1986 Targa with 950 gearbox, it would probbably be more enthusiastic about classic 911. You should add the feeling that you belong to crazy car guys that 911 offers you unlike most other sports car and then you realize that the classic 911 price is not too high.
My Honda S2000 takes off pretty slow but still drives like new
The Porsche is an absolute classic beauty. Still love my NB more.
This is like claiming that I enjoy my Casio much more than a Rolex because the quartz shows time more accurately. Blah.
That's why I choose Timex
Hilarious! I love the review…you drove past my house here in SB!
Dang, small world!
Miata Is Always The Answer!
You're right, stick to your Miata lol. We don't need another person jumping on the air cooled bandwagon.
Maybe if you got your hands on a BMW E21 323i, you'd find it somewhat more pleasant in low speed driving and commuting. Perhaps similar to the beautiful Manta you've got. It's an underappreciated classic in my mind. But I'm a bit biased having had an E21 as a restomod project car. 😊 I'm so glad I found your channel around the time you made the videos about recording audio from engine bays and etc.
Thanks for sticking with me! E21 is a cool looking little car. I didn't really talk about my Opel much in this vid, but I do find it more enjoyable to drive than this particular 911 as well. More responsive at "normal" speeds, easier steering, easier clutch operation, overall lighter feeling. Though admittedly the 911 handles much better.