Ex-twitch staff here (at the 26 mark), thank you for covering the actual issue here. Ads are not a topic many like to talk about but they’re the entire story here
Respectfully disagree. The problem is not the monetization strategy, but rather the fact that twitch is now trying to actively monetize a broken back end that focus' entirely on the top 1% of talent because thats were the revenue has historically come from. When you focus entirely on talent retention, than platform growth and growing your foundation of your monetization strategy, then you're building a house of sticks on a fault line.
@@TheRealSamPreece This is a relatively new development, and isn't responsible for the years of mismanagement. Twitch has been battling monetization at scale for years, relying on Amazon to bankroll the project because it was, until recently, the only real streaming platform option with reliable tech.
26m CREW shout out. This is another solid explanation of the cogs on these incredibly important wheels. Twitch is always squeezing blood from a turnip.
One thing that nobody talks about is that RUclips, unlike other platforms, is not subject to Google Play cut: Google keeps 30% total of a RUclips membership or SuperChat purchased on Android, and creator gets the remaining 70%. On Twitch, every sub from a smartphone (Android or iOS) will only get creators 70% * 50% = 35% of the original payment value. Not great!
I tried my sucess on twitch, had some traction in my 1,000+ hours of streaming, but eventaully had to give it up about two years ago. I still watch your videos, not just because I want to keep up with the current state of the content creation world, but also because I always learn something new about marketing/branding/sales/public relations. Keep up the good work!
Twitch is using movie studio accounting. The studio rents the production equipment, studio space, and even personnel (including executives!) at retail price, even though the studio owns the production. The studio has 30 productions a year, most of which lose money, even though the studio rakes it in. Amazon is treating Twitch as a separate accounting entity, and charging them retail price, basically siphoning all profits off and putting Twitch into the loss category.
26 minute crew!! Last night, while you were in the twitter space, I just decided to make the jump. I'll either be only on YT or multistreaming by the end of the month tops. I've been muling it over for months and twitch's implication that amazon believes their platform to be too expensive, even if they were using bogus numbers, is harrowing. I heard that deathrattle and I'm out.
Twitch has the most intrusive ads of any platform, the mosre they push this without changing that, the more creators and viewers will leave the platform
As someone who is trying to get the ball rolling on streaming and content creation (26 mark), I find your videos super informative. It's definitely a huge help in my decision-making process
As a prime member, I can use my prime subscription on one streamer only, per month. So while I may not see ads for that particular streamer, I'm still subjected to the ads for all the other streamers I may be watching.
As someone that watches more RUclips then twitch, Netflix, hulu, and Disney+ combined (mosy months) you're one of the few RUclipsrs I'll repeatedly comment for (I'm assuming it's good for engagement ratings) I appreciate your videos and I hope you're not over working yourself.
26-min here. :) Also, even though this change doesn't affect me *yet* on Twitch, this has made me realise that things are much worse at Twitch than I thought they might be. And it's probably not the last cut that they're going to make. I've decided to now dedicate at least one day of streaming to streaming on RUclips. Just to test the waters, at least. And who knows, maybe it eventually becomes 3 days on YT, 3 days on Twitch until it's safe to fully move over to YT.
Here at the 26 minute mark, always appreciate the videos Devin. I am in my 4th year at college as a marketing major and I genuinely feel like I learn more here than I do at lectures.
26-Not a streamer, just a gamer that fell into an interest in the functions of business in that world. I enjoy how you present and detail your understanding and arguments.
Moving to YT is a good solution for streamers and I wouldn't blame anyone for that, but as a viewer if someone told me that they're moving to YT, I'd probably just stop watching. Viewers experience is a disaster in comparison and if they pulled the majority of big fish from Twitch, there would be probably no incentive for developement, especially considering how slow YT is with implementing changes now, when they should want to offer streamers as much as they can.
Uh.. it's like the reverse for me. YT viewing experience is great, it's only missing the whole emote spam shit. you can rewind in viewer, video is transcoded better, etc. I only go to twitch because some people only stream there and if I want to see the emote spam in chat. Otherwise there are no particularly unique or useful features in twitch as a viewer..
I understand if it's just a just chatting type of stream but the clarity you can stream in bitrate wise allows for really really nice looking competitive fps / fast paced Battle royale gameplay that really also gives quality good enough to watch the vod np. Personally I prefer gameplay on youtube live or VOD. Just chatting doesn't matter to me either way.
Idk to me the viewer experience is entirely better on RUclips. I don't have to deal with ads. I always have the ability to change the video quality. I'm not really a chatter though I understand thats a big complaint
Great video! I enjoyed it. It was dense but you did a good job at explaining it in layman's terms. It's sad that Twitch is a shell of its former self, but you gotta change with the winds, right? My biggest problem (which isn't really a problem just a pet peeve) is the audio quality on the mic. Hell, you may not even care-- it might not be your area of expertise or interest. It sounds like a headset mic, very tinny, if that makes sense. I think it really is a pet peeve. You may disregard this, and that's totally fine. Even with the quality not being impeccable it was still a great video. Thoroughly enjoyed it.
26min, my personal interest in your videos you talk about these online business like twitch etc, and in detail about they work. i run a business in a totally different sector, and im just generally fascinated about how different companies operate. there is always a lesson in this type of video.
Twitch’s lack of foresight and it’s blatant disregard of users and content creators shows how much they really care about their users happiness. “We’re in this together” yeah okay.
Devin giving out a full 26 reasons for me to watch this video alone. I really feel like people need to visualize this in order to realize it, having worked in logistics. It's Not at all about how much product is moving, it's the quality, drop off, and how long stock stays which is way more important. Same goes with monetizations. I feel like talking about business burn rate is also quite an interesting aspect of this.
Good video overall. A couple points: 1) That's not exactly how intra-company transactions work. Just because Twitch is owned by Amazon doesn't mean the cost to Twitch as an entity is just the cost Amazon bares. They still have to pay AWS for that service. This is an important distinction because for accounting purposes it'll show as a cost to Twitch and a benefit to AWS. That materially impacts the value and profitability of Twitch, even if Amazon as a parent company is neutral in the transaction. 2) I can't help but just not feel bad about this change. Twitch needs to find a path to profitability, or it will die as a website. Part of that is finding the economics that work. I'm sorry but you clearly explained the extremely high bar someone needs to reach to even be impacted by this. I just don't feel bad for someone going from $1 million -> $700k in JUST subscription revenue. Not even close to their only source of income. If they don't like it they should leave and go to RUclips. That problem will probably come up there too. RUclips needs to be profitable as well.
26:01 Here! Love your content, Devin. Your point about Twtich ads being a barrage of the same annoying ads are exactly why I find Twitch unbearable without adblock while with RUclips I can somewhat do without it.
when i got my first sub was a 1.34, I contacted twitch saying I didnt get my 50 50 as the revenue page said somethin is wrong here, I was told by email from twitch the 50 50 was for partner ONLY. Then they removed the 50/50 thing being shown on the revenue page for me. Then I learned that this 50 50 thing was a lie, partners made more, I don't even make 50 50. not fair at all lol. they stole so much of my earnings. wheres my 50%?
It amazes me that Amazon, the largest single entity of customer purchase and shopping data, isn't leveraging that gold mine on Twitch to provide more targeted ads.
26m, it is almost like running a marathon. Having an ad program called “white glove” doesn’t sound like a bad thing because it wouldn’t be intrusive into someone’s privacy unlike targeted ads on Facebook and Instagram. The white glove has been co-opted into a logistics term in the supply chain from an old fashioned term for taking extra care in catering like in a stuffy Regency or Downton Abbey setting.
Twitch's costs seems to be downplayed here... there's more than just 'power' and 'bandwidth': insurance, staff pay, staff training costs, staff uplift & bonuses, offices, office maintainance, onboarding cost per staff, system hardware, data anlalytics staff, digital security, system repairs, network maintanance, payment partner fees and ad-hoc costs, legal costs, public indemnity insurance, events costs, site costs (mortgages, upkeep, site staff, site insurance, site security, offsite rolling backups, web development staff, contracts and licenses for international video dissemination (static and realtime), copyright persuance costs....THAT BEING SAID: they have access to the largest coffers on the planet, given that they're an Amazon company. Also, subs DO see ads.
In 2022 having a streaming platform without having a good VOD system is like selling food without selling beverages. VODs is literally the profitable byproduct that streaming gives to the platform being streamed on, it is so bad to see Twitch dropping the ball on this department.
16:33 this is disingenuous though, RUclips theoretically lets you stream at a higher bitrate, but it'll also just compress it instead, so the bitrate won't really be that much higher. Twitch's true max bitrate is 8000 kilobits per second, big streamers use this all the time. Twitch doesn't compress source (max quality) like RUclips does, so if twitch allowed it to be 6.3x higher their max would be 50,400 kilobits per second, (would use roughly 22.7GB per hour) which would struggle on a lot of people's internet, absolutely obliterate anyone on cell data or wifi with a monthly cap, and also just make ppls phones/PC work harder for no reason, as well as be more expensive to run?
I’ve been streaming on twitch since April but after listening to Devin talk about funnels and RUclips’s pay cut, I’d rather just try to build a platform here. RUclips has more value to its users anyway, and you don’t have to do the hard work of trying to move an audience over to a new platform.
In Sweden you keep 1 USD per sub. 50/50 + 29 % employer payroll tax + 28 % wage tax ( lowest bracket ) or, if you don't pay yourself a wage, then 21 % corporate tax + 30 % capital gains tax ( from the first dollar earned ) which comes out to slightly lower than paying a wage but has some drawbacks, like zero social insurance. So. You need 10 subs per hour to make a US "minimum wage" but Sweden doesn't have a minimum wage. The tax in Europe differs widely, for example, Macedonia has a flat tax of 10 % regardless of the amount and other countries push the tax up to and past 70 % combined. Total kaos.
The biggest problem with Twitch ads in my opinion is that they completely *interrupt* a live broadcast, so they piss people off because people don't like ads in the first place, they piss people off because they can't really target ads so the ads might be completely irrelevant to the viewer, and they interrupt the broadcast for the duration of the ads so you miss what happened.
It's also interesting how RUclips has now came out and lowered the requirements for the YPP, ads revenue from YT Shorts which are always good view wise, and giving more YPP-like benefits to other channels. Just seems like a trend that RUclips is constantly growing and improving in a lot of area, whereas Twitch almost regressing and is struggling to stay competitive.
Ah, I apologize for my previous post as it got removed~ I appreciate what you do Devin and have watched the video fully as I always do~ And yeah, I agree with everything that you say, I hope Twitch becomes a better place in the future~
The Amzn cloud is so massively up scaled that the cost of electricity is the nr. 1 expense, then comes storage ( rent cost ) and upgrades to hardware and at the bottom is the staff and general broadband fees, some of which are semi free.
26 minute crew, of course Im here for this stuff. One of go to sources for information, especially with stuff like this. Thanks for breaking this stuff down and reading between the lines!
Thing is Twitch still has a superior viewing experience over RUclips streaming. RUclips is great for watching videos, but sucks for streaming. Twitch is more interactive which makes the viewing experience more personal for its viewers. Viewers could careless about ad revenue for companies.
26min crew. I “may” be affected by this change. I don’t know if it’s been leaked enough that we’re allowed to talk about it now. I agree with a lot of what you say in this vid. I’m trying set up Banana Queen as a business right now also! The one thing I still don’t get is your “YT discovery is so amazing!” I stream DayZ, I also do DayZ on YT, it’s niche game but has its fans on twitch and YT. YT just isn’t great for streaming, it’s bad. If you go to the YT app on your phone or the YT website on PC and search “DayZ stream” you get recommended videos, not one live streamer. It’s more complex for viewers to find you unless you have a large channel already, just like on Twitch. YT is a search engine, people mostly looks for videos and that is what YT shares. It’s ramming shorts down peoples throats all the time, not streams. As a viewer if you want to watch a DayZ stream, you drift to twitch you can see who is on. See which stream seems appealing and go there. It’s ranked by live views in your language. This is ok Ish, it’s like the TV, the more popular channels in the UK are closer to 1, the more obscure channels are in the hundreds. That system works for livestreams. YT being a search engine works much better for searching specific content in video form. Twitch is better as viewer to land in a game category and find something live. YT is not better for streamers. It’s better for people making video content already that also stream. But you need a sizeable channel already to make the switch to YTfrom Twitch. If you’re a 200k followed streamer on Twitch getting 3/4K subs a month but with with a dead YT channel with 3k subs and no regular content, you can’t just switch to YT, that won’t work. You’re stuck on twitch.
26 Minute check in. Love this discussion as it is helpful in understanding the why behind these changes and get some ideas as to how to make up for this change.
I didn't even know about Twitch Turbo. I have RUclips Premium, so this is of interest to me. However, while YT Premium is actually a good way to support creators, as they get a higher CPM payout for for views from Premium users, Twitch only seems to pay an equal amount for Turbo users. Really good video, thanks for posting.
We've heard you feedback so we're demonatizing hot tub streams and banning gambling*. You can now stream to other sites (unless it's already on twitch). Also we can't afford to pay you. Happy holidays!
This is starting to sound like Amazon is trying to get rid of Twitch by framing it disingenuously . 26min! Like the energy costs in Europe and the bandwidth costs in Korea. Korea's P2P video rollout is entirely because the Korean ISP's won't peer (zero-rate bandwidth) with them because Amazon is a much larger customer and they feel Amazon is freeloading. See the same argument from ISP's about netflix. Twitch is also going to be falling further behind as youtube lets you stream at 4K and (I assume) 8K. 6Mbits is already trash to watch FPS games at. What I see happening is: a) Some streamers won't bother with Affiliate or Partner agreements and just multi-stream to Twitch as the second option. b) Some streamers who are affiliate or partnered will try to push people towards Patreon, or just the RUclips to "sub" if they have one. Or any other options like OnlyFans. I'll disagree on the ads argument however. Amazon offers a $3.5CPM and absolutely suck in how they're pushed. There's multiple audiences on Twitch, and twitch could make more money if they segmented the audience into "gaming", "vtubers/animation", and "artwork and craft hobbies", as the audiences of these are generally male, the people who watch gaming and the people who are watching artwork are completely different. Even the people who do all three, will tell you straight up that the people who watch them for games are not the same who watch them for their artwork and vice versa. Twitch really needs to invest in an ASR system to determine what a stream is, and when there are luls in the stream to know when it's okay to push non-timed ads.
Their main reason is the cost of AWS, do you have the date to compare it to another Amazon streaming services " Amazon prime video and music ". How much does it cost other streaming services to run on AWS ? How do they make money and pay for HUGE original content and big casters there too ? It may not be apple to apple comparison, but both are Amazon video streaming services. ( 26 minutes crew )
I don't understand how Twitch has had people's Amazon Prime accounts linked to their Twitch accounts for years, but somehow they've not taken a single step toward monetizing the ad relevant data they could get from that account link.
Made it to 26 minutes. I like to watch Twitch and don't have any intention of streaming but still love the videos. It's always nice to see someone with real knowledge and intelligence covering these blog posts and explaining them better. These videos are always a treat and I look forward to more.
26 minutes! Crushed it. Have thought a lot about moving streaming over to RUclips. Feels like maybe it’s the better long term move. But, still feel a lot of hesitation with it. Been on Twitch for three years, and am worried about starting over
26 minute gang woot woot! Great video as always but I wanted to ask something I find pretty important. You have stated multiple times that the information Google has on its users makes the programmatic ads way more effective on RUclips. Amazon has an insane user base with direct product information on what people buy all the time. Is it not a fairly simple solution to take that information and create a dynamic system to compete with Google?? Obviously the coding would take time but this feels like it should have been in the works years ago! Or do you think that Amazon can't compete with the level if information Google gets?
Here at the 26 minute mark. What pisses me off is that I have to watch an ad to prior to entering a stream. I may be there 2 mins and I'm hit with 7 additional ads. The streamer says they're obligated to run ads. Are they really?
![The Twitch Adpocalypse Has Begun [Explained]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UR7arYyR5pk/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Twitch Adpocalypse Has Begun [Explained]](/img/tr.png)
![ARGENTINA vs. PERÚ [1-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 12](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xtI25ENDDSY/mqdefault.jpg)
Ex-twitch staff here (at the 26 mark), thank you for covering the actual issue here. Ads are not a topic many like to talk about but they’re the entire story here
theo based as always
What's your take on the ads at twitch?
Respectfully disagree.
The problem is not the monetization strategy, but rather the fact that twitch is now trying to actively monetize a broken back end that focus' entirely on the top 1% of talent because thats were the revenue has historically come from. When you focus entirely on talent retention, than platform growth and growing your foundation of your monetization strategy, then you're building a house of sticks on a fault line.
Lol, more like the sexual misconduct scandal made twitch ad revenue less lucrative. Entire story, lol.
@@TheRealSamPreece This is a relatively new development, and isn't responsible for the years of mismanagement.
Twitch has been battling monetization at scale for years, relying on Amazon to bankroll the project because it was, until recently, the only real streaming platform option with reliable tech.
26m CREW shout out. This is another solid explanation of the cogs on these incredibly important wheels. Twitch is always squeezing blood from a turnip.
One thing that nobody talks about is that RUclips, unlike other platforms, is not subject to Google Play cut: Google keeps 30% total of a RUclips membership or SuperChat purchased on Android, and creator gets the remaining 70%. On Twitch, every sub from a smartphone (Android or iOS) will only get creators 70% * 50% = 35% of the original payment value. Not great!
that's a really good point damn yeah people need to mention that
But if you sub from your phone app it used to cost $1usd more than subbing from the website. Is that no longer the case?
I'm pretty sure Twitch eats that cost, not the streamer.
Then when twitch gets to transfer the revenue, they cut even more
@@DarkDreth Subs are 20% more expensive on mobile, so Twitch eats some of that cost, but most is passed over to the gifter.
Can't believe Devin knows I am still watching at 26 minutes
Exactly!
Devin knows all
Freaky!
Little does he know that my extensive brain damage means that I still don't know what he is talking about 😎
I can't imagine NOT watching an entire Devin Nash video!!
I tried my sucess on twitch, had some traction in my 1,000+ hours of streaming, but eventaully had to give it up about two years ago. I still watch your videos, not just because I want to keep up with the current state of the content creation world, but also because I always learn something new about marketing/branding/sales/public relations. Keep up the good work!
Poor Jeff Bezos is starving because of them greedy streamers on a 70/30 deal 😪
26 min gang! As Data & Analytics Engineer in a Marketing Team, this is so interesting! Thanks Devin!
Twitch is using movie studio accounting. The studio rents the production equipment, studio space, and even personnel (including executives!) at retail price, even though the studio owns the production. The studio has 30 productions a year, most of which lose money, even though the studio rakes it in.
Amazon is treating Twitch as a separate accounting entity, and charging them retail price, basically siphoning all profits off and putting Twitch into the loss category.
26 minute crew!!
Last night, while you were in the twitter space, I just decided to make the jump. I'll either be only on YT or multistreaming by the end of the month tops. I've been muling it over for months and twitch's implication that amazon believes their platform to be too expensive, even if they were using bogus numbers, is harrowing. I heard that deathrattle and I'm out.
Twitch:"We can't afford to pay our streams"
Also Twitch: 1 of 26 Ads
Twitch has the most intrusive ads of any platform, the mosre they push this without changing that, the more creators and viewers will leave the platform
When I saw the tweets I was eagerly awaiting a Devin Nash full breakdown
same TBH LOL
I'm here for the deep dive stuff! 26 mins in and still going!
Devin’s background in Live streaming pays off: producing an in-depth analytical video day-of is impressive!
As someone who is trying to get the ball rolling on streaming and content creation (26 mark), I find your videos super informative. It's definitely a huge help in my decision-making process
As a prime member, I can use my prime subscription on one streamer only, per month. So while I may not see ads for that particular streamer, I'm still subjected to the ads for all the other streamers I may be watching.
At the 26 minute mark Devin makes me feel more appreciated than any job I’ve ever had
As someone that watches more RUclips then twitch, Netflix, hulu, and Disney+ combined (mosy months) you're one of the few RUclipsrs I'll repeatedly comment for (I'm assuming it's good for engagement ratings) I appreciate your videos and I hope you're not over working yourself.
26-min here. :) Also, even though this change doesn't affect me *yet* on Twitch, this has made me realise that things are much worse at Twitch than I thought they might be. And it's probably not the last cut that they're going to make. I've decided to now dedicate at least one day of streaming to streaming on RUclips. Just to test the waters, at least. And who knows, maybe it eventually becomes 3 days on YT, 3 days on Twitch until it's safe to fully move over to YT.
Here at the 26 minute mark, always appreciate the videos Devin. I am in my 4th year at college as a marketing major and I genuinely feel like I learn more here than I do at lectures.
26-Not a streamer, just a gamer that fell into an interest in the functions of business in that world. I enjoy how you present and detail your understanding and arguments.
Moving to YT is a good solution for streamers and I wouldn't blame anyone for that, but as a viewer if someone told me that they're moving to YT, I'd probably just stop watching. Viewers experience is a disaster in comparison and if they pulled the majority of big fish from Twitch, there would be probably no incentive for developement, especially considering how slow YT is with implementing changes now, when they should want to offer streamers as much as they can.
Uh.. it's like the reverse for me. YT viewing experience is great, it's only missing the whole emote spam shit. you can rewind in viewer, video is transcoded better, etc. I only go to twitch because some people only stream there and if I want to see the emote spam in chat. Otherwise there are no particularly unique or useful features in twitch as a viewer..
idk, destiny has the youtube streaming thing figured out. I like d.gg better than twitch any day
I understand if it's just a just chatting type of stream but the clarity you can stream in bitrate wise allows for really really nice looking competitive fps / fast paced Battle royale gameplay that really also gives quality good enough to watch the vod np.
Personally I prefer gameplay on youtube live or VOD. Just chatting doesn't matter to me either way.
Why? I don't get ads on youtube, already infinitely better.
Idk to me the viewer experience is entirely better on RUclips. I don't have to deal with ads. I always have the ability to change the video quality. I'm not really a chatter though I understand thats a big complaint
Great video! I enjoyed it. It was dense but you did a good job at explaining it in layman's terms. It's sad that Twitch is a shell of its former self, but you gotta change with the winds, right? My biggest problem (which isn't really a problem just a pet peeve) is the audio quality on the mic. Hell, you may not even care-- it might not be your area of expertise or interest. It sounds like a headset mic, very tinny, if that makes sense. I think it really is a pet peeve. You may disregard this, and that's totally fine. Even with the quality not being impeccable it was still a great video. Thoroughly enjoyed it.
the reasons to stream on youtube just keep stacking higher and higher..
26min, my personal interest in your videos you talk about these online business like twitch etc, and in detail about they work. i run a business in a totally different sector, and im just generally fascinated about how different companies operate. there is always a lesson in this type of video.
Twitch’s lack of foresight and it’s blatant disregard of users and content creators shows how much they really care about their users happiness. “We’re in this together” yeah okay.
Great video man. I'm so glad someone is talking about ads and comparing Twitch to RUclips in that regard. It's the big outlier that no one realizes.
is that a "call to action" to encourage viewer interaction, to bump you this video in the algorithm? I'm in.
Devin giving out a full 26 reasons for me to watch this video alone.
I really feel like people need to visualize this in order to realize it, having worked in logistics. It's Not at all about how much product is moving, it's the quality, drop off, and how long stock stays which is way more important. Same goes with monetizations.
I feel like talking about business burn rate is also quite an interesting aspect of this.
Good video overall. A couple points:
1) That's not exactly how intra-company transactions work. Just because Twitch is owned by Amazon doesn't mean the cost to Twitch as an entity is just the cost Amazon bares. They still have to pay AWS for that service. This is an important distinction because for accounting purposes it'll show as a cost to Twitch and a benefit to AWS. That materially impacts the value and profitability of Twitch, even if Amazon as a parent company is neutral in the transaction.
2) I can't help but just not feel bad about this change. Twitch needs to find a path to profitability, or it will die as a website. Part of that is finding the economics that work. I'm sorry but you clearly explained the extremely high bar someone needs to reach to even be impacted by this. I just don't feel bad for someone going from $1 million -> $700k in JUST subscription revenue. Not even close to their only source of income. If they don't like it they should leave and go to RUclips. That problem will probably come up there too. RUclips needs to be profitable as well.
Phew... I only have 2379 subs on Twitch. I'm in the clear. Thanks for clearing that up for me Devin.
26:01
Here! Love your content, Devin.
Your point about Twtich ads being a barrage of the same annoying ads are exactly why I find Twitch unbearable without adblock while with RUclips I can somewhat do without it.
when i got my first sub was a 1.34, I contacted twitch saying I didnt get my 50 50 as the revenue page said somethin is wrong here, I was told by email from twitch the 50 50 was for partner ONLY. Then they removed the 50/50 thing being shown on the revenue page for me. Then I learned that this 50 50 thing was a lie, partners made more, I don't even make 50 50. not fair at all lol. they stole so much of my earnings. wheres my 50%?
It amazes me that Amazon, the largest single entity of customer purchase and shopping data, isn't leveraging that gold mine on Twitch to provide more targeted ads.
Back to back videos! What a blessing
“Ads are so annoying-“
*Ad comes up*
Lol, nice one! Made me chuckle.😂
So basically it sounds like Amazon may want to sell off twitch or close it.
26m, it is almost like running a marathon. Having an ad program called “white glove” doesn’t sound like a bad thing because it wouldn’t be intrusive into someone’s privacy unlike targeted ads on Facebook and Instagram. The white glove has been co-opted into a logistics term in the supply chain from an old fashioned term for taking extra care in catering like in a stuffy Regency or Downton Abbey setting.
Just reading about this. Excellent timing!
26 Min ins and I got a call to action. Loved it, was here for it, appreciate it.
Twitch's costs seems to be downplayed here... there's more than just 'power' and 'bandwidth': insurance, staff pay, staff training costs, staff uplift & bonuses, offices, office maintainance, onboarding cost per staff, system hardware, data anlalytics staff, digital security, system repairs, network maintanance, payment partner fees and ad-hoc costs, legal costs, public indemnity insurance, events costs, site costs (mortgages, upkeep, site staff, site insurance, site security, offsite rolling backups, web development staff, contracts and licenses for international video dissemination (static and realtime), copyright persuance costs....THAT BEING SAID: they have access to the largest coffers on the planet, given that they're an Amazon company.
Also, subs DO see ads.
In 2022 having a streaming platform without having a good VOD system is like selling food without selling beverages. VODs is literally the profitable byproduct that streaming gives to the platform being streamed on, it is so bad to see Twitch dropping the ball on this department.
16:33 this is disingenuous though, RUclips theoretically lets you stream at a higher bitrate, but it'll also just compress it instead, so the bitrate won't really be that much higher. Twitch's true max bitrate is 8000 kilobits per second, big streamers use this all the time. Twitch doesn't compress source (max quality) like RUclips does, so if twitch allowed it to be 6.3x higher their max would be 50,400 kilobits per second, (would use roughly 22.7GB per hour) which would struggle on a lot of people's internet, absolutely obliterate anyone on cell data or wifi with a monthly cap, and also just make ppls phones/PC work harder for no reason, as well as be more expensive to run?
Here after 26 minutes. Super insightful as always. Thanks for the breakdown and appreciate you coming on our podcast a few weeks ago!
twitch has been a dumpster fire the last couple of days, thx for keepin me informed devin! 27mins in!!!
its crazy that youtube's starting to look more appealing than twitch
I’ve been streaming on twitch since April but after listening to Devin talk about funnels and RUclips’s pay cut, I’d rather just try to build a platform here. RUclips has more value to its users anyway, and you don’t have to do the hard work of trying to move an audience over to a new platform.
In Sweden you keep 1 USD per sub.
50/50 + 29 % employer payroll tax + 28 % wage tax ( lowest bracket )
or, if you don't pay yourself a wage, then 21 % corporate tax + 30 % capital gains tax ( from the first dollar earned )
which comes out to slightly lower than paying a wage but has some drawbacks, like zero social insurance.
So. You need 10 subs per hour to make a US "minimum wage" but Sweden doesn't have a minimum wage.
The tax in Europe differs widely, for example, Macedonia has a flat tax of 10 % regardless of the amount and other countries push the tax up to and past 70 % combined. Total kaos.
The biggest problem with Twitch ads in my opinion is that they completely *interrupt* a live broadcast, so they piss people off because people don't like ads in the first place, they piss people off because they can't really target ads so the ads might be completely irrelevant to the viewer, and they interrupt the broadcast for the duration of the ads so you miss what happened.
It's also interesting how RUclips has now came out and lowered the requirements for the YPP, ads revenue from YT Shorts which are always good view wise, and giving more YPP-like benefits to other channels.
Just seems like a trend that RUclips is constantly growing and improving in a lot of area, whereas Twitch almost regressing and is struggling to stay competitive.
Great commentary yesterday in the Twitter space and you summed up this whole video in like 5 minutes 👍
26 and beyond! Love the deep dives, you’re great at breaking down dense information
Ah, I apologize for my previous post as it got removed~
I appreciate what you do Devin and have watched the video fully as I always do~
And yeah, I agree with everything that you say, I hope Twitch becomes a better place in the future~
The Amzn cloud is so massively up scaled that the cost of electricity is the nr. 1 expense, then comes storage ( rent cost ) and upgrades to hardware and at the bottom is the staff and general broadband fees, some of which are semi free.
here, thanks for the knowledge man. really helped me understand better on the twitch situation. sad to see Twitch dying. will be missed for sure
26 minute crew, of course Im here for this stuff. One of go to sources for information, especially with stuff like this. Thanks for breaking this stuff down and reading between the lines!
26 I’m not doing the e steam thing as much anymore but I always watch your vids from a general business and insight point of view. Thanks devin ✌️
26 minute secret call out! Love the deep dives on these topics, always a fun time
Thing is Twitch still has a superior viewing experience over RUclips streaming. RUclips is great for watching videos, but sucks for streaming. Twitch is more interactive which makes the viewing experience more personal for its viewers. Viewers could careless about ad revenue for companies.
Thanks for breaking this down devin helped me understand it all!
Really enjoy watching the full videos, great information!!!
26 minute club ;) I really enjoy those videos. Great value!
26min crew. I “may” be affected by this change. I don’t know if it’s been leaked enough that we’re allowed to talk about it now.
I agree with a lot of what you say in this vid. I’m trying set up Banana Queen as a business right now also!
The one thing I still don’t get is your “YT discovery is so amazing!” I stream DayZ, I also do DayZ on YT, it’s niche game but has its fans on twitch and YT. YT just isn’t great for streaming, it’s bad. If you go to the YT app on your phone or the YT website on PC and search “DayZ stream” you get recommended videos, not one live streamer. It’s more complex for viewers to find you unless you have a large channel already, just like on Twitch. YT is a search engine, people mostly looks for videos and that is what YT shares. It’s ramming shorts down peoples throats all the time, not streams.
As a viewer if you want to watch a DayZ stream, you drift to twitch you can see who is on. See which stream seems appealing and go there. It’s ranked by live views in your language. This is ok Ish, it’s like the TV, the more popular channels in the UK are closer to 1, the more obscure channels are in the hundreds. That system works for livestreams. YT being a search engine works much better for searching specific content in video form. Twitch is better as viewer to land in a game category and find something live.
YT is not better for streamers. It’s better for people making video content already that also stream. But you need a sizeable channel already to make the switch to YTfrom Twitch. If you’re a 200k followed streamer on Twitch getting 3/4K subs a month but with with a dead YT channel with 3k subs and no regular content, you can’t just switch to YT, that won’t work. You’re stuck on twitch.
@text me on telegram@Devinnash oh that’s great I can’t wait to win a prize. Please can you email me at…
Go and get a life you sad fook dot com
Talk about gambling being banned. I want to hear you review on that!
26 Minute check in. Love this discussion as it is helpful in understanding the why behind these changes and get some ideas as to how to make up for this change.
Made it to the secret call out! Your welcome, I've been a lurker for some time now!
26 minute crew! Yo thanks for always making the information so easy to follow
We’ve been blessed with two straight days of Devin Nash videos.
Solid information, thank you. I also watched all the way to the end of the video!
i use Twitch Turbo and i love being able to not see any ads regardless of what stream i watch
The most I've seen of Devin Nash in months, good to see you well!
I didn't even know about Twitch Turbo. I have RUclips Premium, so this is of interest to me. However, while YT Premium is actually a good way to support creators, as they get a higher CPM payout for for views from Premium users, Twitch only seems to pay an equal amount for Turbo users. Really good video, thanks for posting.
Heck yeah checkpoint check-in! Perfect to listen too while working.
Great explanation, very interesting hearing it from your side of the table!
Was here for the 26 mark. It's awesome watching someone who's passionate and knowledgeable in something break everything down!
When a marketer does these topics its so much more insightful. Great perspective Devin!
25min secret call out. Let’s go Devin, hot topic thanks for covering it
We've heard you feedback so we're demonatizing hot tub streams and banning gambling*. You can now stream to other sites (unless it's already on twitch). Also we can't afford to pay you. Happy holidays!
26 min squad, keep the awesome content up Devin, would love to see your take on the changes RUclips has just announced! thanks
Bro, I think it’s more worrisome that apparently twitch can’t maintain their serves up, so they decide to cut creator payouts. Yikes 💀
This is starting to sound like Amazon is trying to get rid of Twitch by framing it disingenuously . 26min!
Like the energy costs in Europe and the bandwidth costs in Korea. Korea's P2P video rollout is entirely because the Korean ISP's won't peer (zero-rate bandwidth) with them because Amazon is a much larger customer and they feel Amazon is freeloading. See the same argument from ISP's about netflix. Twitch is also going to be falling further behind as youtube lets you stream at 4K and (I assume) 8K. 6Mbits is already trash to watch FPS games at.
What I see happening is:
a) Some streamers won't bother with Affiliate or Partner agreements and just multi-stream to Twitch as the second option.
b) Some streamers who are affiliate or partnered will try to push people towards Patreon, or just the RUclips to "sub" if they have one. Or any other options like OnlyFans.
I'll disagree on the ads argument however. Amazon offers a $3.5CPM and absolutely suck in how they're pushed. There's multiple audiences on Twitch, and twitch could make more money if they segmented the audience into "gaming", "vtubers/animation", and "artwork and craft hobbies", as the audiences of these are generally male, the people who watch gaming and the people who are watching artwork are completely different. Even the people who do all three, will tell you straight up that the people who watch them for games are not the same who watch them for their artwork and vice versa.
Twitch really needs to invest in an ASR system to determine what a stream is, and when there are luls in the stream to know when it's okay to push non-timed ads.
Their main reason is the cost of AWS, do you have the date to compare it to another Amazon streaming services " Amazon prime video and music ".
How much does it cost other streaming services to run on AWS ? How do they make money and pay for HUGE original content and big casters there too ?
It may not be apple to apple comparison, but both are Amazon video streaming services.
( 26 minutes crew )
I was here at 26 mins. Great stuff bub. Keep'em coming.
I don't understand how Twitch has had people's Amazon Prime accounts linked to their Twitch accounts for years, but somehow they've not taken a single step toward monetizing the ad relevant data they could get from that account link.
here for the 25 minute shout out lol. Thank you for the break down as always
Always said we saw nothing yet when popular streamers announced they were switching to youtube.
Made it to 26 minutes. I like to watch Twitch and don't have any intention of streaming but still love the videos. It's always nice to see someone with real knowledge and intelligence covering these blog posts and explaining them better. These videos are always a treat and I look forward to more.
I was at the 26 and it is mind boggling how twitch doesn’t have a better ad model
26 minutes! Crushed it. Have thought a lot about moving streaming over to RUclips. Feels like maybe it’s the better long term move. But, still feel a lot of hesitation with it. Been on Twitch for three years, and am worried about starting over
“That’s the only reason to sub at all, ads are so annoying…” RUclips runs two ads. 😂 well played RUclips.
Appreciate the help once again!
26 Min! Another important video! Thank you
Here for the deep dive. Thanks!
Love hearing these kinds of things Devin. I didn't even realize I had been watching for 26 minutes.
Perfect way to keep current with Twitch news while I do housework, thanks Devin
26 minute mark hype! I just found this channel and the information I'm seeing here is so amazing.
It’s so funny how you get engagement this way, 26 mins in and I’m here I guess keep up the great content
26 minute gang woot woot! Great video as always but I wanted to ask something I find pretty important. You have stated multiple times that the information Google has on its users makes the programmatic ads way more effective on RUclips. Amazon has an insane user base with direct product information on what people buy all the time. Is it not a fairly simple solution to take that information and create a dynamic system to compete with Google?? Obviously the coding would take time but this feels like it should have been in the works years ago! Or do you think that Amazon can't compete with the level if information Google gets?
Here at the 26 minute mark. What pisses me off is that I have to watch an ad to prior to entering a stream. I may be there 2 mins and I'm hit with 7 additional ads. The streamer says they're obligated to run ads. Are they really?
Devin content hell yeah
I love the long and well explained videos you do :)
Made it past 26 minutes, always great to see your insights on these topics.