WATCH NEXT - What it's like Working for Amazon and Big Tech - ruclips.net/video/3XgOft7ZSXs/видео.html Why This Former Amazon Employee Is Boycotting Returning to The Office - ruclips.net/video/0WZf2Kpw8Zg/видео.html
23 years of dev experience. Lost job 2 yrs ago and still can't find a job. 300+ applications, I'm done. Created lawn maintenance business and now I'll never go back to slaving away for corporate prisons.
I personally know six software engineers who found dev jobs after layoffs in the Puget Sound over the last two years. In 1970, when Boeing was the only real high-tech employer here, engineers were pumping gas or left town after the SST program was canceled. Billboards were posted leaving Seattle saying "will the last person leaving Seattle turn out the lights", and recovery took years! Back then, this area was either logging or Boeing! We have it so much better now with many more companies here, but it's not like "shooting fish in a barrel" anymore! My aerospace engineer father was pumping gas, fixing cars and working as a short-order cook until Boeing started hiring engineers back again!
@@flybearone1865 That's good that Seattle area is doing ok. I'm in Dallas and we're not so lucky here. Either way, I've started my own business now and I'm much happier doing this and can't see myself ever wanting to sit in front of a computer or work in an office ever again.
I'm Ukrainian and have also spent 20+ years in the industry (mostly outsourcing), reaching senior manager/director roles. But now, everything seems to be falling apart. The war has scared away businesses, and there’s an industry-wide collapse. I haven't been laid off yet, but things could go south at any moment.
@@etcetc3800AI is just yet another hyped thing (like machine learning in general several years ago). It has nothing to do with post-COVID driven recession. Maybe just as an excuse for layoffs in a couple of companies.
I graduated with a degree in computer science in 2008. I never got a tech job and lost alot of income in entry level healthcare, but I became a nurse in 2018 and never looked back. The pay ceiling is lower but at least it's a reliable income.
@@PipBoy3k good move for so many reasons, not least is you get to interact with (mostly) appreciative “customers”. And you are not on you arse most of the day, which no human was meant to do. I wish you well!
Healthcare is the most reliable income field. Tech is short-term, you will eventually get laid off if you dont move into management, consulting or create your own company.
@@philipnaggs Try going to a Dr with Medicaid (in the US) and you'll quickly see why wealthy and healthy goes hand-in-hand lol. You'll get bottom of the barrel Docs and will be severely limited to what diagnostics are covered.
5 years in the industry in America. I was laid off from Disney about a year ago before finding a new role. I’m about to buy a truck and a trailer because getting a mortgage is too risky. I’d rather get used to living mobile and save more money instead of paying rent or mortgage. AI and offshore will take all jobs I will be eligible for in the next 5 years probably. That is what I’m planning for. Hopefully it will be better. Trying to figure out side hustles and skills that will be useful. Glad I have no kids or wife. Good luck
Life goes on for people with a positive attitude, goals and dreams! God has a way of helping people who help themselves! Been laid-off over the years myself--keep your resume skills sharp and don't take it personally! Trust me--they will be sorry when you're gone! 😎
Same here but I simply stepped away from working for big tech firms. Now I only work for small non software domain companies, its an entirely different world (work is now pleasurable)
25 years in the industry here. I work for a small family owned company in a very niche but lucrative domain. There’s a lot of work. Many such companies are still making money on Visual Basic desktop apps. They’re now moving to web apps. For young lads starting in this field, I’d recommend you look for small to medium companies operating in a domain that is not software but a real industry.
I agree with everything you said.I was a software dev for 14 years like yourself. At the end, I had crazy health problems and couldn't work anymore. All I got was a zoom call talking about my imminent layoff....and then, the corporate machine is done with you. The cog is replaced and you're on your own.
Life can bring anything, to the young people fretting on these comments, the bad news is, life will happen to you and you will have a bunch of “worst time of my life”s. The good news is, that’s life and you will persevere. Bad times pass because you’re human, you’re equipped with adaptability and even in the direst financial situations, you will figure it out and have the basics. Don’t worry about if something will happen, it will. When it does, reassure yourself that this too shall pass.
Everyone should aim to be ready to retire by age 50 at the latest. This involves saving a significant portion of your income in both retirement and cash, to enable an exit from the workforce at 50. The truth is, very few people will be able to work much longer than that, even if they want to. Ageism and becoming too expensive compared to offshore workers is the issue. Don’t assume the gravy train will last, and plan accordingly.
yeah right and the cost of living will eat up all your savings before you're 50 anyway. Id get out of the industry right now and leave coding for the indians. AI - Actually India.
Im in a role right now at a business. Im solo, meaning i do front end, back end, product management, devops, architecture. Everything. Roles like this are what companies want. I think specialized roles are done for.
Getting laid off is scary but it does make one realize that saving money is necessary. I was weeks away from having to live in my car back in the early 2000's and it was scary.
Hello from France, turning 40 this year. Been 15 years in the tech industry. I might be laid off in the next months because they are sending all the work to India, among other factors. The only difference with you is that I don't have children. For all the rest, I feel exactly the same as you. Maybe it's the sign for something new. There's one good thing in France, you can get good unemployment benefit for almost 2 years. If the lay off happens, I will seriously think about caring for myself in the first place, and do other things than sitting in front of a computer taking care of for example Indian guys that are miles away and don't give a shit about you. Do sports, maybe write books, travel, stuff like that. For the last year I realised my mental health is very low, and that's partly to do with my Software Enginner job.
You’re brave to see this layoff as a new beginning. So many friends of mine have been laid off and have no idea what to do with themselves. I hope your new venture(s) go well!
This is for the comments. Anybody in tech is competing with a world market. In South East Asia a software dev makes $1200 / month. In the Middle East, $1800 ymmv. These folks are often as smart or smarter than their Western counterparts. The US has ceded leadership in many areas like drones, IT and manufacturing. It's huge lead in AI & slight lead in smartphones and social media is being chipped away. Take aways: 1) as a dev / manager if you are not handling a budget, you do not have power in the organization. find a way to have control of a budget at work. 2) as a dev, if you are not geo-maxing your location, you run the risk of getting severely undercut - AI & social is still a notable exception. Find a way to move to a digital nomad haven. 3) start your own company - it will help you see what pressures led to your demise if you were laid off. it's very eye opening, and exciting.
Don’t worry guys, when the industry recovers from its AI hangover they will need devs again. I’m sitting here watching all the software tools that I use degrade because the bean counters laid off all the experienced software support personnel.
Thanks for this refreshing point of view. I'm hoping you keep up the video series and keep us posted on how your post-layoff journey pans out. P.S. I love this walk and talk video format!
@@GeminiWalkandTalk I just realized the first video I watched from you was about the new Seattle waterfront video :) I am in similar mindset to want to start enjoying our surrounding after 15 years in tech. You have a lot of experience. You'll do just fine!
Just finished the video and you're 100% right about the aging tech people at corporate hell holes. If I ever hear "I've got a case the Mondays" or have to listen to another boss walk around the office to talk about what they cooked in their Traeger grill, I'll probably snap. It all starts to feel like you're in a movie and these people are just playing their role.
Your comment about the donuts and coffee made me think about my office where many of my co-workers go crazy for free bagels every Friday, free snacks at 3 p.m. every day, and the nitro cold brew coffee keg.
@@JeffSchwenke it costs em pennies and looks great to perspective new workers/drones. Cynicism can be healthy and this is one of those times where it comes in useful. It’s a ploy, nothing more.
For your new baby, wife and other child, you should be thinking about them and their futures instead of dwelling on all the negative things you can think of. Software engineering is your chosen profession even if it entails going into an office. There are soooo many other crappy jobs out there that pay only a faction of what a software engineer makes. Just do my job (Amazon fulfillment worker) at my pay rate ($22 per hour) to support a family, and you will then understand.
Thank you for this video. Insightful, interesting and inspiring. I'm only in the third year of my tech career and I'm across the ocean in Serbia, so there's quite a gap in age, experience and circumstances, but I relate with many of your observations and thoughts, especially regarding life and personal goals on a larger scale. Wishing you and your family the best.
My team is being replaced by devs from the cheaper location right now. I think tech guys don't see that we are much smarter than most people doing business. We learn much faster than others and have this issue finding and solving approach. We also become proffesional very fast in whatever we do. There are so many paths. Recently, I started arborist (trees cutting/pronning) side hustle and it's satisfying and bonding with nature.
Hi! Thank you for this ❤ I just got laid off last week - and am thinking of starting few things on my own. It's encouraging to see you're having the similar opinion and thank you for sharing this bigger picture ❤️ let's smash this! And congrats! 😅😂🎉
There’s a fair few vids on RUclips about this. I don’t believe it’s unique to Amazon though I think they are notorious for it. I’m guessing that kind of crap is illegal in the EU…
yeah, cliff year sounds like a deliberate plan to get rid of experienced devs before they start costing too much. Churn through younger ones that still have that 24/7 energy left and no kids.
@@GeminiWalkandTalk I would guess that in your first 10 years of career you worked like crazy. Thats the people they want.. not the older family oriented people that want some life balance.
Been in the industry for over a decade now myself and have been laid off many times. I agree with you across the board. The government has messed everything up and will have to keep stimulating indefinitely to keep everything from falling apart, which will only work for now. Everything is leading toward massive inflation. And like most other industries, tech has prioritized profit over everything else. So much of it is predicated on giving shareholders the headcount that they want to see. There's very little focus on actual innovation, much less employee well-being and fun. Lately everything is about who can complete xyz product manager's tickets the fastest without causing production issues. Everyone has to learn everything on their own and fall in line. It's completely joyless imo. It's rough out there, but there are still companies that are hiring skilled people if that's the path you choose. Best of luck to you.
Not only physical health but your mental health as well! Our society is NOT BALANCED! We need the European culture. Work, rest in middle of the day. Go meet with family or friends at a cafe, good food ,wine and if you want, go take nap you have 3 hours during the day. I just loved this! When I visited Europe. Now that’s balance! 😊
Intresting Video. I am a Teacher for Software development. My students are bit older and experienced. And sometimes I have programmers in my course who can not see code anymore. They hate it, they told me that they started programming by the age of 16 and now 20 years later they have to womit when they see code. I was in that business for a while too. Doing Java and Ruby on Rails. Then I went teach people programming, and this is really pleasure for me! We need teachers for our kids like you. They will be impressed about your experience what you told us here. And you can give back something for society.
I graduated in 2008 (Computer Science Engineering) , with small business cycle of IT decided to leave that stream and joined Banking, for better work life balance shifted to Actuarial Science..still never trusted the corporates, never fell for buying a residential home rather invested in small rental , agricultural and commercial units and also equities...working but have created parallel streams of income to sustain life... I am sure you will find your way through this phase bro.. Good luck!
Hello former tech co-worker, that I never met. I was not caught up in the latest round of layoffs but lost some great co-workers in them; 3-4 of them also from the Seattle hub. Glad to see you taking a break from the normal 9-5 to re-center/re-train/re-boot yourself. Looking forward to watching your journey as a form of motivation.
18 years in mechanical engineering, now ai can do my job. a friend, a digital artist, ai can do his job. coviid was nothing more than a massive data grab, to train ai systems which are incredible for those profiting, but ultimately made to replace you. i heard all the arguments that ai takes tasks away not jobs, but we know the reality.
At the point in my life where I believe the world would be a better place if software engineers quit their job and spent their time and energy building semi-sustainable chicken & tomato farms at home.
I work as developer and my company is doing poorly as well. We had a lot of layoffs. I'm not sure how long my team will be around. I'm fortunate that I'm near the retirement age. Although my intent was to work a few more years, if I get let go, I may decide to retire permanently.
Hey, thanks for the insightful video. I've just started in the tech industry fresh out of university in Norway and I've wanted to find a job in the US with the big tech firms. Not good hearing that the industry is in recession... Hope it will be better!
🔥 I feel you. I'm on the tech marketing side (music software and services) for over 30 years. Got laid off as a contractor (so no unemployment). And the RTO think is a bummer as most of my business is in LA, Berlin, etc. and I am not interested in moving (I'm in Tacoma btw). Also I'd guess you put in much more than 9-5 as that is how tech tends to be. Seems like many in this situation are coming together creating startups or working for startups at less $. You sound smart so I am sure there is something. Happy to meetup if ya ever want for coffee.
this was a great morning listen; thanks for sharing it. Moved to Virginia from Seattle (which i miss so) during the pandemic to be near aging parents. as a result, about to not be employed where i have been for the past 8 years. had to make a decision to abandon them (again) and could not do it this stage in my life, to sit in front of the same screens the majority of the time that I can where i now live. The last year i've been focused on some heavy AI foundational work on the design/prototyping side, so we'll see what there is for me in the future. :)
I used to code tje whole day as a hobby on weekends. I have a different profession but when the layoffs happened and ai stated., I lost interest in coding. I thought i could make a career out of it but with no one hiring, it’s hard to think of it.
16:00 resonated a lot with me actually. Being 24/7 with small children can be quite stressful but really we should be looking at it as a quite unique and very valuable opportunity. Not just for you but really, for your WHOLE family. It should create a platform to build from, be grateful for.
I survived the first wave of layoffs, nevertheless now our company lost the contract, and we are having over 30 people on the bench. This constant pressure is really affecting my psychological well being. If they will lay me off eventually, or better to say when, I won’t be back. I foreseen this coming, before it actually started happening in tech, so I was back to college in 2021, and getting completely different degree.
I resonate with everything you say in this video. Sounds like you are going through burnout which is totally common after so many years in this industry. I hope you are able to take a back seat for 6/12 months and re-energize. We are going through a wholesale transformation right now. My advice is use the time and your skills to get onboard the AI/LLM revolution. We are on the precipe of a whole new World of opportunities.
Exactly the reason why I moved to Swirzerland, it has much better layoff policy and support from the government. Still have two jobs in IT Security, child in another country in EU and home to come back to if things go really wrong. Greetings from a fellow slav.
7:54 - Interesting perspective. I could see CEOs hearing this a number of times and deciding to pull the plug on remote work. Probably why Andy Jassy went the direction he did.
Only 2 levels of wealth. 1, when unearned income exceeds living expenses of groceries and housing. 2, when there's enough unearned income to charitably cover these for others. Our kids and the disadvantaged. ❤
This really has me worried, I'm a self-taught programmer, I don't even have a college degree. It really is my hobby and passion. But I'm worried I won't be able to compete on paper when people as qualified as you get laid off
@@benpurcell591maybe... but some are skipped because they feel these guys will expect too high a salary and hiring manager might be intimidated by the "well at company xyz this is how we did it" et.
Most toxic industry. I do not know for rich countries, but in countries in development it brutal and toxic you are burned in 5-6 years. Only positive things is that you can get contract for usa, and live from 2 salaries whole year and save 10. Whenni working for usa for me it is like holiday if i compare domestic companies.
I hear you !! I have 16 years of work ex, and I have met few folks like you as well.. Still IC and I love what I do !! Seems like you never liked your work which was quiet unfortunate, specially after spending decades of life there and even stranger is even your manager had same life. I did work on Cancer research and do have couple of papers on it. Sure, some part of you felt the needs of $$ but I think most of your corporate life went in the search of $$, that has ruined you and your aspiration to seek refuse in family !! Good luck to you, and the rat race is there as well my friend, coz your child will go through the same failure you have been.
Perhaps you can combine your tech skills will health care or fitness industry or wellness industry? Good luck! Nice to hear about tech life in Seattle.
My ideology: a rich is not who has a lot of money, but who has enough. Cut your expenses, use computer skills for what matters in real world and keep rights to products of your labor to yourself.
I think traditional business is more promosing. It is less speculative and the market is more apparent. Startup boomed because investors willing to throw money to explore potential markets.
@@pjoshi_15yep that’s how to look at it. The only “safe” programming jobs will soon be in defence, security aspects, safety critical systems, and low level systems engineering. Most of the rest, which includes pretty much all jobs that revolve around web tech, will be reduced to interacting with “AI” systems. Programming is fun though, so don’t think it’s not a worthwhile skill. But the areas where that skill can be applied will massively shrink in the coming years.
How old are you? It depends. If you are in university still. Make sure you get into internship. All companies give jobs to their interns first unless they didn’t do so well. Go to as many hackathons as you can .winning means a chance of getting an interview. If you are older, I would say forget it. Very difficult to get in now. All those online courses like udemy are hopeless.
I suspect that one reason ppl stick in these jobs tooth-and-nail is that once you wash out, it's hard to get back in. If you have gaps in your resume without good reasons (kids, etc), it will be hard to get re-hired, unless you come with a good network.
Thanks for your raw video; it was very encouraging just hearing your story; I didn't know about the Amazon cliff thing. Taste Freedom! That's the key word! Once you discover true flexibility, you never want to go back! Start a consulting business; it will be hard at the start, but once you find your niche, you will be happy. There are lots of small businesses with $10m - 15m in revenue that can use your skills. I'd be glad to chat more about this; I have some ideas on how to tackle new markets outside North America.
have been a tech worker at a few companies for 35 years non-stop since graduating engineering school. it's been a love hate relationship. love it because a good project can be fun, exciting and a great learning experience. hate it because the intense competitive learning to stay relevant never ends, it's exhausting. i mostly do devsecops now and find the mix more satisfying than just software and also i'm not interested in learning cutting edge dev skills anymore. the kids have long grown and flown, as did the ex with a nice chunk of my assets, so it's just me to worry about. stacking as much as possible as i coast to the finish line. on balance no complaints, tech has been a rewarding career for me. but now i'm counting the years to retirement.
The job ads are also fake right now. I haven't moved to management in my career. Just senior level roles were difficult for me. Tech downturn isn't a big deal. The broad view is that the many industries are generally experiencing a downturn.
this only proves that this recession is gonna be even more brutal . And we are already in it and I'm not sure if we gonna get over it. Well we gonna get over it but how the world will look like afterwards.... who knows. 14 years experience and laid off. what to entry level software tech guys have to look forward to?
peopel have seen nothing yet... last year when US banks started failed they printed whole bunch of money to save banks and gov went on spending rampage... thsi will end horribly...
young unencumbered talent fills the gap and trades their time for $ with incremental pay bumps until you are older, married w/ kids and less committed to the job at a higher expense, so get put to pasture and the cycle goes on.
As someone who is only at the start of their career, watching this feels like it's Bill Gates making a vlog. From my current position in life, this guy has it so good, that I simply cannot relate. He earned all that, that's fine, but I get this strong feeling that what I'm seeing here is some far echelon of society completely unrelated to mine, with their own troubles and topics of concern ... and again, I just can't relate. A fraction of his monthly pay is what I make in a year.
I agree, he was able to accumulate 14yrs of experience in the biggest bull market we have ever seen. He thinks serving 5 million requests is not a worth while conversation because he's been in so many rooms where they discuss the same thing over and over. While I'm looking to let people to give me a chance to be in the same room. It would be nice to start my own business if I had 14 years worth of savings and was able to give my wife the opportunity to build her business. I understand success can come swiftly but it helps to have those corporations on your resume and a network so you can go back to corporate incase you fail.
Software became commodity, huge salaries and massive privileges will become fast a thing of the past. Oh, and ofc not a job for the older worker. Time for designing B plan and go super frugal.
WATCH NEXT - What it's like Working for Amazon and Big Tech - ruclips.net/video/3XgOft7ZSXs/видео.html
Why This Former Amazon Employee Is Boycotting Returning to The Office - ruclips.net/video/0WZf2Kpw8Zg/видео.html
Apply to aerospace companies or AI thats the new markets. I hope you know and understand Python
23 years of dev experience. Lost job 2 yrs ago and still can't find a job. 300+ applications, I'm done. Created lawn maintenance business and now I'll never go back to slaving away for corporate prisons.
Way to go!
I personally know six software engineers who found dev jobs after layoffs in the Puget Sound over the last two years. In 1970, when Boeing was the only real high-tech employer here, engineers were pumping gas or left town after the SST program was canceled. Billboards were posted leaving Seattle saying "will the last person leaving Seattle turn out the lights", and recovery took years! Back then, this area was either logging or Boeing! We have it so much better now with many more companies here, but it's not like "shooting fish in a barrel" anymore! My aerospace engineer father was pumping gas, fixing cars and working as a short-order cook until Boeing started hiring engineers back again!
@@flybearone1865 That's good that Seattle area is doing ok. I'm in Dallas and we're not so lucky here. Either way, I've started my own business now and I'm much happier doing this and can't see myself ever wanting to sit in front of a computer or work in an office ever again.
4 years experience. It took me 500+ applications to get my next role. It could also be ageism for you
Can't you drop your salary requirements?
I'm Ukrainian and have also spent 20+ years in the industry (mostly outsourcing), reaching senior manager/director roles. But now, everything seems to be falling apart. The war has scared away businesses, and there’s an industry-wide collapse. I haven't been laid off yet, but things could go south at any moment.
I visited Ukraine to commission some software work in 2016. Best of luck!
Кажуть багато айтішників виїхали звідси ще у 22му
Якщо менеджмент не скорочують, значить не все так погано.
It's not just war. AI is big part of job losses
@@etcetc3800AI is just yet another hyped thing (like machine learning in general several years ago). It has nothing to do with post-COVID driven recession. Maybe just as an excuse for layoffs in a couple of companies.
I graduated with a degree in computer science in 2008. I never got a tech job and lost alot of income in entry level healthcare, but I became a nurse in 2018 and never looked back. The pay ceiling is lower but at least it's a reliable income.
That was a really rough time to get in. I barely did
@@GeminiWalkandTalk health care is like bonds less volatility and tech is like stocks you get smacked up
@@PipBoy3k good move for so many reasons, not least is you get to interact with (mostly) appreciative “customers”. And you are not on you arse most of the day, which no human was meant to do. I wish you well!
Healthcare is the most reliable income field. Tech is short-term, you will eventually get laid off if you dont move into management, consulting or create your own company.
@@rodneyh1947 yup totally agree
The morale of the story is "It's Better To Be Wealthy And Healthy Than Poor And Ill".
So true
The moral of the story is if you want to be wealthy in America, it will take away your health.
You should start a podcast to spread this wisdom 😂
It's better to be poor and healthy than wealthy and ill
@@philipnaggs Try going to a Dr with Medicaid (in the US) and you'll quickly see why wealthy and healthy goes hand-in-hand lol. You'll get bottom of the barrel Docs and will be severely limited to what diagnostics are covered.
5 years in the industry in America. I was laid off from Disney about a year ago before finding a new role. I’m about to buy a truck and a trailer because getting a mortgage is too risky. I’d rather get used to living mobile and save more money instead of paying rent or mortgage. AI and offshore will take all jobs I will be eligible for in the next 5 years probably. That is what I’m planning for. Hopefully it will be better. Trying to figure out side hustles and skills that will be useful. Glad I have no kids or wife. Good luck
I'm lucky to have secured a home. Good luck to you
Not gonna lie, I’m in a similarly precarious situation at my tech job and I am TERRIFIED of getting laid off. Respect for your positive outlook.
I hope it works out for you, it's not easy at all right now
Life goes on for people with a positive attitude, goals and dreams! God has a way of helping people who help themselves! Been laid-off over the years myself--keep your resume skills sharp and don't take it personally! Trust me--they will be sorry when you're gone! 😎
Same here but I simply stepped away from working for big tech firms. Now I only work for small non software domain companies, its an entirely different world (work is now pleasurable)
It's a possibility. I started that way actually
25 years in the industry here. I work for a small family owned company in a very niche but lucrative domain. There’s a lot of work. Many such companies are still making money on Visual Basic desktop apps. They’re now moving to web apps. For young lads starting in this field, I’d recommend you look for small to medium companies operating in a domain that is not software but a real industry.
Really good point
Yep. 37 years in, converting vb6 apps to web apps. Not great, but it's work.
Describe their business please
I agree with everything you said.I was a software dev for 14 years like yourself. At the end, I had crazy health problems and couldn't work anymore. All I got was a zoom call talking about my imminent layoff....and then, the corporate machine is done with you. The cog is replaced and you're on your own.
What did you do afterwards?
I hope you have recovered your health! It matters most
Life can bring anything, to the young people fretting on these comments, the bad news is, life will happen to you and you will have a bunch of “worst time of my life”s. The good news is, that’s life and you will persevere. Bad times pass because you’re human, you’re equipped with adaptability and even in the direst financial situations, you will figure it out and have the basics. Don’t worry about if something will happen, it will. When it does, reassure yourself that this too shall pass.
I’m hearing stories like this all the time now. Crazy times!
It's very common right now
Everyone should aim to be ready to retire by age 50 at the latest. This involves saving a significant portion of your income in both retirement and cash, to enable an exit from the workforce at 50. The truth is, very few people will be able to work much longer than that, even if they want to. Ageism and becoming too expensive compared to offshore workers is the issue. Don’t assume the gravy train will last, and plan accordingly.
I agree!
yeah right and the cost of living will eat up all your savings before you're 50 anyway. Id get out of the industry right now and leave coding for the indians. AI - Actually India.
we have a workers shortage, so unless you have 5 kids ready to work when you retire ... your country will be flooded by 3rd world migrants.
@@nobbynob-mq2rn Which industry to get in, if leaving tech?
Capitalism is great.
Im in a role right now at a business. Im solo, meaning i do front end, back end, product management, devops, architecture. Everything. Roles like this are what companies want. I think specialized roles are done for.
I started my career that way
Gosh that’s unreal
@@GeminiWalkandTalk I started as a specialist ironically
Getting laid off is scary but it does make one realize that saving money is necessary. I was weeks away from having to live in my car back in the early 2000's and it was scary.
This time I'm doing better than the last 2
@@GeminiWalkandTalk good for you - I found saving gets addictive.
Hello from France, turning 40 this year. Been 15 years in the tech industry. I might be laid off in the next months because they are sending all the work to India, among other factors. The only difference with you is that I don't have children. For all the rest, I feel exactly the same as you. Maybe it's the sign for something new. There's one good thing in France, you can get good unemployment benefit for almost 2 years. If the lay off happens, I will seriously think about caring for myself in the first place, and do other things than sitting in front of a computer taking care of for example Indian guys that are miles away and don't give a shit about you. Do sports, maybe write books, travel, stuff like that. For the last year I realised my mental health is very low, and that's partly to do with my Software Enginner job.
Hello, France is one of my favorite countries. I was just there in May. I will be back soon 😃 I wish all the best
Inspired me to look into starting a small business
Best comment yet
What kind of business?
You’re brave to see this layoff as a new beginning. So many friends of mine have been laid off and have no idea what to do with themselves. I hope your new venture(s) go well!
I think it's really important to always have back up plans
This is for the comments. Anybody in tech is competing with a world market. In South East Asia a software dev makes $1200 / month. In the Middle East, $1800 ymmv. These folks are often as smart or smarter than their Western counterparts. The US has ceded leadership in many areas like drones, IT and manufacturing. It's huge lead in AI & slight lead in smartphones and social media is being chipped away.
Take aways:
1) as a dev / manager if you are not handling a budget, you do not have power in the organization. find a way to have control of a budget at work.
2) as a dev, if you are not geo-maxing your location, you run the risk of getting severely undercut - AI & social is still a notable exception. Find a way to move to a digital nomad haven.
3) start your own company - it will help you see what pressures led to your demise if you were laid off. it's very eye opening, and exciting.
This is a good topic I'll make a video about. Thanks for commenting
@@GeminiWalkandTalk Thank you for your video. Liked & subbed, and looking forward to more of your insights.
Don’t worry guys, when the industry recovers from its AI hangover they will need devs again. I’m sitting here watching all the software tools that I use degrade because the bean counters laid off all the experienced software support personnel.
Atleast people in the US are paid for their work, in my country (and I live in Europe) I have like 800$ per month as UX Designer. 😮💨😮💨
That's why I moved!
Seems like in the us people who work in tech live like kings. Life its so unfair.
Amazing video and thoughts!!! So helpful and still inspiring!!! Thank you
Thank you! Very nice comment
Thanks for this refreshing point of view. I'm hoping you keep up the video series and keep us posted on how your post-layoff journey pans out.
P.S. I love this walk and talk video format!
Thank you for your support. It means a lot right more
Lot's of interesting info and insight. Cool to hear your story.
Thanks for watching!
Thank you for sharing your story. I am glad you found what matters to you.
I'll be following along your journey.
Thank you for your support. It means a lot right now
@@GeminiWalkandTalk I just realized the first video I watched from you was about the new Seattle waterfront video :)
I am in similar mindset to want to start enjoying our surrounding after 15 years in tech.
You have a lot of experience. You'll do just fine!
Just finished the video and you're 100% right about the aging tech people at corporate hell holes. If I ever hear "I've got a case the Mondays" or have to listen to another boss walk around the office to talk about what they cooked in their Traeger grill, I'll probably snap. It all starts to feel like you're in a movie and these people are just playing their role.
You know it. The struggle is real
Your comment about the donuts and coffee made me think about my office where many of my co-workers go crazy for free bagels every Friday, free snacks at 3 p.m. every day, and the nitro cold brew coffee keg.
I always found it unnerving
@@JeffSchwenke it costs em pennies and looks great to perspective new workers/drones. Cynicism can be healthy and this is one of those times where it comes in useful. It’s a ploy, nothing more.
For your new baby, wife and other child, you should be thinking about them and their futures instead of dwelling on all the negative things you can think of. Software engineering is your chosen profession even if it entails going into an office. There are soooo many other crappy jobs out there that pay only a faction of what a software engineer makes. Just do my job (Amazon fulfillment worker) at my pay rate ($22 per hour) to support a family, and you will then understand.
I've already done that. I appreciate your comment though. It's a valid point of view
Lol 😅😅😅, go in Ukraine, and u will be richer than 99% of population
Thank you for this video. Insightful, interesting and inspiring.
I'm only in the third year of my tech career and I'm across the ocean in Serbia, so there's quite a gap in age, experience and circumstances, but I relate with many of your observations and thoughts, especially regarding life and personal goals on a larger scale.
Wishing you and your family the best.
Thank you and good luck on your career. I'm a neighbor from Bulgaria
It's a tough time for the tech industry right now. Thanks for sharing your story.
It's hard true, but we have to remember almost everyone has had it harder all along
I'm also laid off for the second time, just taking time to think what's next... Best wishes on your next journey.
Thank you. The best to you too
@@GeminiWalkandTalk Thanks 🙏🏽
My team is being replaced by devs from the cheaper location right now. I think tech guys don't see that we are much smarter than most people doing business. We learn much faster than others and have this issue finding and solving approach. We also become proffesional very fast in whatever we do.
There are so many paths. Recently, I started arborist (trees cutting/pronning) side hustle and it's satisfying and bonding with nature.
I was just talking about this to my wife. Smart people can do many things fast
Too bad business and coding are too entirely different things. Coding is much more pleasant and predictable. Business is insane.
Hi! Thank you for this ❤ I just got laid off last week - and am thinking of starting few things on my own. It's encouraging to see you're having the similar opinion and thank you for sharing this bigger picture ❤️ let's smash this! And congrats! 😅😂🎉
Yes let's do it. Thanks for watching. I wish you luck
That's really interesting about the cliff year. It's like they push you out
Yes they'd rather get fresh meat and squeeze out whatever they have in them
There’s a fair few vids on RUclips about this. I don’t believe it’s unique to Amazon though I think they are notorious for it. I’m guessing that kind of crap is illegal in the EU…
yeah, cliff year sounds like a deliberate plan to get rid of experienced devs before they start costing too much. Churn through younger ones that still have that 24/7 energy left and no kids.
@@GeminiWalkandTalk I would guess that in your first 10 years of career you worked like crazy. Thats the people they want.. not the older family oriented people that want some life balance.
Lost job 18 months ago hundreds of applications few interviews now driving uber full time thinking of obtaining a CDL .
That sounds really hard! Hope you will find your dream job soon.
Did you also work in tech as a developer?
Been in the industry for over a decade now myself and have been laid off many times. I agree with you across the board. The government has messed everything up and will have to keep stimulating indefinitely to keep everything from falling apart, which will only work for now. Everything is leading toward massive inflation. And like most other industries, tech has prioritized profit over everything else. So much of it is predicated on giving shareholders the headcount that they want to see. There's very little focus on actual innovation, much less employee well-being and fun. Lately everything is about who can complete xyz product manager's tickets the fastest without causing production issues. Everyone has to learn everything on their own and fall in line. It's completely joyless imo. It's rough out there, but there are still companies that are hiring skilled people if that's the path you choose. Best of luck to you.
Thanks. You get it. I think it gets worse before it gets better
It's brutal
Not only physical health but your mental health as well! Our society is NOT BALANCED! We need the European culture. Work, rest in middle of the day. Go meet with family or friends at a cafe, good food ,wine and if you want, go take nap you have 3 hours during the day. I just loved this! When I visited Europe. Now that’s balance! 😊
Been through a layoff, it took me 9 months to get a job. IT career after 40 is not so smooth.
Excellent video, I've been a software engineer for the last 13 years and the last 15 minutes of the video resonate deeply with me.
Thanks. You get it
Intresting Video. I am a Teacher for Software development. My students are bit older and experienced. And sometimes I have programmers in my course who can not see code anymore. They hate it, they told me that they started programming by the age of 16 and now 20 years later they have to womit when they see code. I was in that business for a while too. Doing Java and Ruby on Rails. Then I went teach people programming, and this is really pleasure for me! We need teachers for our kids like you. They will be impressed about your experience what you told us here. And you can give back something for society.
I graduated in 2008 (Computer Science Engineering) , with small business cycle of IT decided to leave that stream and joined Banking, for better work life balance shifted to Actuarial Science..still never trusted the corporates, never fell for buying a residential home rather invested in small rental , agricultural and commercial units and also equities...working but have created parallel streams of income to sustain life... I am sure you will find your way through this phase bro.. Good luck!
Brother. Don’t leave the industry! Go somewhere special. Amazon isn’t special. I was at AWS. You’re a number there.
I love that lake! Beautiful! What is the name of it? I am so happy for you and your family!
Thank you. This is lake Washington
Hello former tech co-worker, that I never met. I was not caught up in the latest round of layoffs but lost some great co-workers in them; 3-4 of them also from the Seattle hub. Glad to see you taking a break from the normal 9-5 to re-center/re-train/re-boot yourself. Looking forward to watching your journey as a form of motivation.
18 years in mechanical engineering, now ai can do my job.
a friend, a digital artist, ai can do his job.
coviid was nothing more than a massive data grab, to train ai systems which are incredible for those profiting, but ultimately made to replace you.
i heard all the arguments that ai takes tasks away not jobs, but we know the reality.
can I ask you what your job is or was ? I'm curious what task is AI now able to replace
We need to make AI work for us!
At the point in my life where I believe the world would be a better place if software engineers quit their job and spent their time and energy building semi-sustainable chicken & tomato farms at home.
Haha yes
Even just reading your sentence, filled me with so much joy.
I work as developer and my company is doing poorly as well. We had a lot of layoffs. I'm not sure how long my team will be around. I'm fortunate that I'm near the retirement age. Although my intent was to work a few more years, if I get let go, I may decide to retire permanently.
It seems to be widespread. Good luck
Thank you for sharing these very valuable information.
The sceneries in the video are really nice. 👍🏾
Hey, thanks for the insightful video. I've just started in the tech industry fresh out of university in Norway and I've wanted to find a job in the US with the big tech firms. Not good hearing that the industry is in recession... Hope it will be better!
It’s not very easy but it’s possible
Spot on! I loved the videeeeeeeo! I'm also at the same point of my life - thinking about the next chapter...
You get it!
🔥 I feel you. I'm on the tech marketing side (music software and services) for over 30 years. Got laid off as a contractor (so no unemployment). And the RTO think is a bummer as most of my business is in LA, Berlin, etc. and I am not interested in moving (I'm in Tacoma btw). Also I'd guess you put in much more than 9-5 as that is how tech tends to be. Seems like many in this situation are coming together creating startups or working for startups at less $. You sound smart so I am sure there is something. Happy to meetup if ya ever want for coffee.
this was a great morning listen; thanks for sharing it. Moved to Virginia from Seattle (which i miss so) during the pandemic to be near aging parents. as a result, about to not be employed where i have been for the past 8 years. had to make a decision to abandon them (again) and could not do it this stage in my life, to sit in front of the same screens the majority of the time that I can where i now live. The last year i've been focused on some heavy AI foundational work on the design/prototyping side, so we'll see what there is for me in the future. :)
I used to code tje whole day as a hobby on weekends. I have a different profession but when the layoffs happened and ai stated., I lost interest in coding. I thought i could make a career out of it but with no one hiring, it’s hard to think of it.
The future is questionable
16:00 resonated a lot with me actually. Being 24/7 with small children can be quite stressful but really we should be looking at it as a quite unique and very valuable opportunity. Not just for you but really, for your WHOLE family. It should create a platform to build from, be grateful for.
I survived the first wave of layoffs, nevertheless now our company lost the contract, and we are having over 30 people on the bench. This constant pressure is really affecting my psychological well being. If they will lay me off eventually, or better to say when, I won’t be back. I foreseen this coming, before it actually started happening in tech, so I was back to college in 2021, and getting completely different degree.
Hopefully we found our true vocation
I resonate with everything you say in this video. Sounds like you are going through burnout which is totally common after so many years in this industry. I hope you are able to take a back seat for 6/12 months and re-energize. We are going through a wholesale transformation right now. My advice is use the time and your skills to get onboard the AI/LLM revolution. We are on the precipe of a whole new World of opportunities.
Yes burn out sounds right. I'm enjoying my break thoroughly and doing things I've wanted to do for years
Exactly the reason why I moved to Swirzerland, it has much better layoff policy and support from the government. Still have two jobs in IT Security, child in another country in EU and home to come back to if things go really wrong. Greetings from a fellow slav.
Yes, it's unfortunate. I've started a local helpdesk and craft business to get by.
7:54 - Interesting perspective. I could see CEOs hearing this a number of times and deciding to pull the plug on remote work. Probably why Andy Jassy went the direction he did.
I have another video about the return to office where I talk about that
Only 2 levels of wealth.
1, when unearned income exceeds living expenses of groceries and housing.
2, when there's enough unearned income to charitably cover these for others. Our kids and the disadvantaged. ❤
Thank you for the video!
Welcome. Lots more coming
This really has me worried, I'm a self-taught programmer, I don't even have a college degree. It really is my hobby and passion. But I'm worried I won't be able to compete on paper when people as qualified as you get laid off
It’s a legitimate reason to be worried
I wouldn't bother. Instead of "Learn to code" ... "Learn to plumb".
@@nobbynob-mq2rn The thing is I've already learnt to code, its been my passion for 10 years, and I haven't found anything else I enjoy as much
He's laid off from a top fang job. Really he could walk into a job at many companies tomorrow with his resume, but he wants something different now
@@benpurcell591maybe... but some are skipped because they feel these guys will expect too high a salary and hiring manager might be intimidated by the "well at company xyz this is how we did it" et.
Most toxic industry. I do not know for rich countries, but in countries in development it brutal and toxic you are burned in 5-6 years. Only positive things is that you can get contract for usa, and live from 2 salaries whole year and save 10. Whenni working for usa for me it is like holiday if i compare domestic companies.
I don't know about most, but definitely toxic
20+ years for me. Don't even know if I want to go back. Driving a truck now and also run another business on the side.
Hello from Time Inc! Really neat to see you on youtube after 10 years.
Hey Derek! How is it going? Where you find yourself working now? Me - nowhere 😆
I am glad I came across this. I hope things go well for you in the next venture.
Thank you
self sustaining farming is the future
But they you live somewhere you can't walk anywhere
I hear you !! I have 16 years of work ex, and I have met few folks like you as well.. Still IC and I love what I do !! Seems like you never liked your work which was quiet unfortunate, specially after spending decades of life there and even stranger is even your manager had same life.
I did work on Cancer research and do have couple of papers on it. Sure, some part of you felt the needs of $$ but I think most of your corporate life went in the search of $$, that has ruined you and your aspiration to seek refuse in family !! Good luck to you, and the rat race is there as well my friend, coz your child will go through the same failure you have been.
Perhaps you can combine your tech skills will health care or fitness industry or wellness industry? Good luck! Nice to hear about tech life in Seattle.
All of these specialized tech jobs are now getting wiped out because of AI
My ideology: a rich is not who has a lot of money, but who has enough. Cut your expenses, use computer skills for what matters in real world and keep rights to products of your labor to yourself.
Love your transparency .. good luck ahead
indians and AI takin' all the jobs...
We Indians don’t hate you bro. We’re not taking your job. We just want to do good in life.
so basically just Indians and Indians that pretend to be AI ?
@@train_xcyou don’t need to hate to take someone’s job. Indian’s competing on lower compensation and not usually quality
Ten years later it'll be Indian ai stealing us ai jobs 😅
Cheap labor means higher profit and big bonuses. Most tech companies have offices in India now
I think traditional business is more promosing. It is less speculative and the market is more apparent. Startup boomed because investors willing to throw money to explore potential markets.
Yes I agree
What do u mean traditional business?
@@thedownunderverse What Finance bros might call "boring, but steady dividend payers" - insurance, banking, energy, utilities, healthcare, consumer staples etc.
I want to learn code but i listen to these people who can't get a job and i think i would work for myself if possible.
Follow Peter levels
Learn coding if you enjoy doing it. There are so many things we can create if we know how to code. Getting a job can be consider as a bonus.
@@pjoshi_15yep that’s how to look at it. The only “safe” programming jobs will soon be in defence, security aspects, safety critical systems, and low level systems engineering. Most of the rest, which includes pretty much all jobs that revolve around web tech, will be reduced to interacting with “AI” systems.
Programming is fun though, so don’t think it’s not a worthwhile skill. But the areas where that skill can be applied will massively shrink in the coming years.
How old are you? It depends. If you are in university still. Make sure you get into internship. All companies give jobs to their interns first unless they didn’t do so well. Go to as many hackathons as you can .winning means a chance of getting an interview. If you are older, I would say forget it. Very difficult to get in now. All those online courses like udemy are hopeless.
Best of luck. Not an easy era for tech people and small companies. 😢
Thank you. Luckily we have a business
Wow agree with all the details. Great video!
Thank you. Lots more to come
Please suggest to a fresher how they can switch the field and to which field they can work easily
I suspect that one reason ppl stick in these jobs tooth-and-nail is that once you wash out, it's hard to get back in.
If you have gaps in your resume without good reasons (kids, etc), it will be hard to get re-hired, unless you come with a good network.
Love this ❤
Thank you
Agreed - for tech job market, the prime time is gone, for ever
mainly b/c of outsourcing, i think
Thanks for your raw video; it was very encouraging just hearing your story; I didn't know about the Amazon cliff thing.
Taste Freedom! That's the key word! Once you discover true flexibility, you never want to go back! Start a consulting business; it will be hard at the start, but once you find your niche, you will be happy.
There are lots of small businesses with $10m - 15m in revenue that can use your skills. I'd be glad to chat more about this; I have some ideas on how to tackle new markets outside North America.
Mate, I think working 14 years is not a long time but you feel loaded 💵 enough to secure your future and take another risk.
Great video! please post the video on why you think software engineering industry future is not that great. Thanks!
have been a tech worker at a few companies for 35 years non-stop since graduating engineering school. it's been a love hate relationship. love it because a good project can be fun, exciting and a great learning experience. hate it because the intense competitive learning to stay relevant never ends, it's exhausting. i mostly do devsecops now and find the mix more satisfying than just software and also i'm not interested in learning cutting edge dev skills anymore. the kids have long grown and flown, as did the ex with a nice chunk of my assets, so it's just me to worry about. stacking as much as possible as i coast to the finish line. on balance no complaints, tech has been a rewarding career for me. but now i'm counting the years to retirement.
City and State laws can override the local resistance
Another DevSecOps guy with 20 years non-stop and exactly the same life :-(
The job ads are also fake right now.
I haven't moved to management in my career. Just senior level roles were difficult for me.
Tech downturn isn't a big deal. The broad view is that the many industries are generally experiencing a downturn.
wish you a happy self employment jouney SIr ,It is the future
Thank you. I’ll do an update
this only proves that this recession is gonna be even more brutal . And we are already in it and I'm not sure if we gonna get over it. Well we gonna get over it but how the world will look like afterwards.... who knows.
14 years experience and laid off. what to entry level software tech guys have to look forward to?
You are correct
peopel have seen nothing yet... last year when US banks started failed they printed whole bunch of money to save banks and gov went on spending rampage... thsi will end horribly...
young unencumbered talent fills the gap and trades their time for $ with incremental pay bumps until you are older, married w/ kids and less committed to the job at a higher expense, so get put to pasture and the cycle goes on.
He was laid off because of ageism. It's rampant in such a demanding field.
Thanks for the vid. No opportunity for you to work with AI in streaming recommendations?
Didn't hear of any when I asked. It's a very small area really
As someone who is only at the start of their career, watching this feels like it's Bill Gates making a vlog. From my current position in life, this guy has it so good, that I simply cannot relate. He earned all that, that's fine, but I get this strong feeling that what I'm seeing here is some far echelon of society completely unrelated to mine, with their own troubles and topics of concern ... and again, I just can't relate. A fraction of his monthly pay is what I make in a year.
Success can happen quickly
I agree, he was able to accumulate 14yrs of experience in the biggest bull market we have ever seen. He thinks serving 5 million requests is not a worth while conversation because he's been in so many rooms where they discuss the same thing over and over. While I'm looking to let people to give me a chance to be in the same room. It would be nice to start my own business if I had 14 years worth of savings and was able to give my wife the opportunity to build her business. I understand success can come swiftly but it helps to have those corporations on your resume and a network so you can go back to corporate incase you fail.
Best of luck friend
Thanks!
Always a challenging industry and now much more so. Good luck.
My son wants to do masters in cybersecurity from India what do you suggest for him ?
Software became commodity, huge salaries and massive privileges will become fast a thing of the past. Oh, and ofc not a job for the older worker.
Time for designing B plan and go super frugal.
Yes I agree
Thanks for sharing, I'm job hunting and this is helpful.
Good luck to you
Apple fired me three years ago and I still haven't found work.
That's rough!
@@GeminiWalkandTalk It's super rough
@@GeminiWalkandTalk mostly fresh grads getting jobs now that money isn't as cheap
Great perspective! Thank you for sharing your experience.
Thanks for watching. More to come
Very interesting perspective on work from home.
I love it...."so freaking lame". Totally agree
Listening to you makes me realise countries should heavily invest in education and continuous education for adults
They really should