Okay, I hear ya guys, 250 HP may not be low, but we're talking relatively here. I live in the US market, and in the US market when you spend $35k on something sporty (domestic or not), you can get a lot more than 250 HP. Can we all also agree that it's neat that the 240i can match the Mustang GT's 0-60 with 100 less HP? Yeah yeah, underrated, but no one is going to underrate their engines by 100 HP in a market where HP sells cars. My point was the car is cool, and makes do with less. It's neat, I enjoyed it, and I hope you all did to. Have a solid day!
The point is that any good youtube channel today, such as yours, is watched in many countries and we do understand that there are other realities out there, but the same way that we do, you should also be sometimes a bit more carefull in the words you use because people may take it badly and for a person living in a country where 250hp is more than 99% of the car fleet and is also a dream car and saying as if it was nothing can make people feel a bit odd about it. I hope you understand, I'm not bashing.
I'm with Leandro here, I watch your videos from Chile and here the base model is the 220i lol, the 230i here is kind of a big deal here. I still get your point though
I think there are other cheaper cars that can make you smile like you did in the BMW with just about 90 HP like the basic Honda Civic 1998-2002 which is really quick. I dont get it why all must be for the bmw ok I know the old bmw till like E36 are good but the new ones are not as cheap as some early Japanese cars or no where near their engines....
My car is rated for 255 horses, and the first time I drove it fast I was mind blown. Now I am more used to it, but it's fast enough for me, for sure. Note: I am an American. :D
How quick is that Polo? Because I've got a 230i with the 248ph engine and I feels it's a bit slow for it's class.. But then again, my car weighs over 3900lbs.
It's because it's the low power/economy version of the cars, it's very drivable and it's good enough for the road though, take a Polo GTI, Clio RS or 106 S16 and it's double (even triple depending on the year) the power
@@DoctorSkillz i honestly can’t even tell you why i posted that original comment. don’t even ask. it wasn’t really even that relevant to the original comment 😭😭😂😂
Spoiled American Syndrom Everything is so far apart in America that you have to drive for eons to get anywhere, often at highway speeds, meaning any deficit in powerout of a vehicle is very noticeable, especially crossing mountain passes! His private vehicles include a Honda S2000 & previously a Subaru WRX STI, now a Subaru Crosstrek : so his vehicle choice preference history gives ample bias to his commentary
In Europe, the "low power" base model is the 218i, with only 136hp out of a 1.5 litre inline straigt 3. Now that is LOW power :) Here everything above 200hp is pretty much considered powerful.
136WHP is not "low power", chap... Not by a long shot. You can have a pretty quick car with 136WHP, all it takes is to strip it a little bit to reduce the weight, and you will have a quick and fun car with "just" 136WHP. Power to weight ratio, power per litre, even the centre of gravity plays a factor in it. Give a wekk to me and that "low powered" 218i and I will make a beast of it, if you want a fast car... And guess what, I will not even spend money on it, just a few drops of sweat. Here in Brazil we draw out 500WHP or MORE from inline 4's, that originally had 60-80WHP. Hell, with a few tweaks to the engine and better injectors we got 95WHP from a 55WHP car...
Wyatt Foster that's pretty much spot on... dyno's of the 228i N20 engine showed it making about 240whp, or 270-275chp. This new motor should be making a little bit more than that
Jacob that's right, bhp or chp (brake/crank horsepower) is measured at the crank. It's the power the engine makes without accessories and transmission/ driveline losses. Whp is measured at the wheels by a dyno. Frictional losses make a car's whp rating less than its bhp/chp rating.
Are you serious? It's like the slowest BMW they offer at the moment, next to the 20/28 Idrive. This car is a light, agile thing forsure, but it is absolutely "low power" compared to other cars you would cross-shop for similar money. Especially when you compare to brands that have actually been aware of the horsepower war that has been raging in our industry for years, such as mercs or Audis lol
Aaron Freeman pretty sure the 28's are out from 2017 onwards.. The 30's replace them outwardly. 30's makes just a bit more hp and torque. So now for most, it's a 20's, then next model is 30's, just to be clear
Check out the non-American market for BMW. Where they offer plenty of sub-200 hp cars. Both the 3-series and the 5-series have like 10 different engine options over here in Europe.
These motors are hella underrated. They put down their crank rating at the wheels. And they definitely haul the mail. Friend of mine has one, and he picked my wife and I up from the airport at night. I didn't see the badge, and judging from the pull I assumed it was the 6 cylinder. The M240i must be a rocket.
The car is faster than a mustang because it has more power than what is advertised the same goes for VW or Audi they allways under report the horsepower ratings.
It also puts down power better and has a flatter torque curve because it is boosted. People focus too much on peak numbers. Having XXX peak horsepower doesn't tell you everything, there's much to the story.
I have a 228i (older version of 230i) and that car is a joy to drive! Great acceleration, handles well. He does a good job of reviewing the car on its strengths and weaknesses. I have the automatic 8 speed though which is really fun for an automatic.
Levent Ergün it's all relative - this is a bit of a fat piggy so that isn't that much power. Also, I never believe BMW power ratings. They are notorious for under rating / being very conservative and listing power that is closer to what's at the wheels than the crank. I am guessing this car would dyno at 250 which puts it closer to a 280hp at crank.
RationallySkeptical maybe in the US, Not in other countries.. Like in my country, I would say most have about 130 hp being the average. The popular choices all have about 102-106hp. The upper limits of 'affordable' gets this 248hp guise. Having anything more than 300 in an engine that's not a 2.0 ( or not a Volvo drive -e T6) means you'll be faced with a yearly roadtax of 200 USD for a 2.5l with 300+hp or more with bigger Cc engines
He's actually talked about it in the Civic Si review I believe. He said that it was actually implemented into the car by the manufacturer for emission control. Not 100 percent sure but I think they hang the revs so all that fuel in the air mixture is burnt off safely and not left to go out of the car unburnt. Again not exactly sure if that's true.
The BMW 230i is most certainly no entry level car even by BMW standards. At least in Europe the entry level BMW 2 is 218i with a puny 1.5 liter inline 4 and 136 horses.
They are using a modular platform now with 1,5l I3, 2l I4 and 3l I6, all with the same cylinder dimensions, so that they can use a lot of the same parts, like pistons, rods, valves, ...
Have to be in agreement with the rest of the comment section... "Low Power" to me is somewhere around 50-80 HP My current car with 204 (after I fix the exhaust manifold) is already considered quite powerful not only by others but by myself aswell... there is not really much I can't do with that power as long as I don't go on a track... so yeah... 218i would be considered low power for a modern car maybe... but not the 230i!
I'm slowly becoming a fan of BMW and one just might be my next car. I really want a mid size or compact rear wheel drive car. I like how BMW is deleting some of the buttons to make it appear more old school. I don't care for the newer cars that have 100+ buttons across the steering wheel, dashboard, and center console.
Never in a million years would I have thought I would've gotten one. So much more fun to drive than a Lexus. Everyone I know loves the minimalist interior and the lack of the safety features which takes away your control on the car.
I came from an f30 328i to a GS350 F sport... My 328i had a long list of problems that kept growing once my bumper to bumper warranty had expired so I got rid of it.
Lol at the removing buttons comment.. Has he never been in a BMW before?? They've been using that same system for the mirrors, locks, etc since the late 90s.
+dosmastrify Oh I know, I was just commenting because EE was mistaken in thinking BMW's minimalist button theme was a recent thing. Personally, I will never own a car that requires a touch screen to change controls. I hate the way modern interiors are going honestly. They are less intuitive and downright dangerous. Plus the biggest issue for me is that they looked dated wayyyy faster than classic gauges and buttons.
Great review. I own a 2017 230i manual myself, and it is the best car I've ever had. I test drove the 4 and 6-cylinder cars back-to-back, and I preferred the handling balance of the 4-cylinder to the extra power of the 6. Yeah, the 6-cylinder has more power, but it also weighs 150 lb more, and all that way hangs in the nose of the car past the front axle, and you can really feel it in the turns. I completely agree with your assessment of the Track-Handling Package. I got both it and the M-Sport packages, the M-Sport being largely cosmetic, but it gave me the M-Sport steering wheel, which I *greatly* prefer to the default one on this car. Again, thanks for this great and thorough review.
I have a 21 years old BMW and the buttons ( for mirrors, lock....) work the same. You sound like this is the first time driving a BMW :D The same goes for the acceleration hanging - which I very much enjoy, since it makes shifting so much easier. It is there by design.
My mom bought this thing, although the xdrive, automatic version. Of course I had to test it out, I was really surprised at the low end torque and how it pulls in general, especially 0-60ish. And that's coming from someone who dailies a supercharged vette lol.
i've been driving my company's 330i on and off for 2 weeks now. it makes wanna sell my ralliart... BMW is awesome at smoothing out the turbo lag. gonna see if they offer 140i with x-drive in australia next year. if so, ciao ralliart.
"Would you rather..." purchase and daily drive a G70 2.0L manual or a 2021 BMW 230i manual 2 door coupe? I can buy either one for practically the same price. Great review by the way!
The M package on the 230i would have given you a different steering wheel, aero package. and slightly stiffer shocks. The test 230i didn't have the M package, but it had the track handling package, which is adjustable shocks, Brembo brakes, speed sensitive steering, and summer performance tires (MPSS). I'll take the track handling package over the M Sport package any day on the 230i.
Well, there is no THP in Germany, so I will stick with my M-Package over the stock one :P I really dislike the stock suspension, steering wheel, design and well... almost everything :P But yeah, if you live in the USA the THP is a no brainer.
Check out the older 128i if you want to have fun driving. The straight six builds up beautifully, clutch and transmission are so satisfying, and best of all hydraulic steering with BMW handling.
Jason, you're not used to drive BMW'S. There's not much surprises with this video. One button does it all, why bother with multiple buttons for the same function? BMW manual transmission is aggressive, it takes a long time to get used to it. On the other side, drive it fast and you'll see how awesome it becomes.
The reasoning for not having a center position for the outside mirrors is to turn off or on the mirror dip function. That has been a staple of BMW since at least the E46 and maybe earlier. When you put the vehicle into reverse, the passenger side mirror will dip downward so you can more easily see obstacles like curbs or parking spot lines. This feature only works if the mirror adjustment position is on the driver's side. If it's on the passenger's side, it deactivates the feature.
Gregg B that is true. I live in NY we have some of the most expensive gas at the moment is 2.39 us. And i complaint is to much money. I own this car and is fun but i have 600HP before. Does not matter we dont have any highway that we can go and use it
Those 4 cyl 2 series are an amazing used car bargain. Anyone looking for a nice, sporty car about 22-26k can pick a low mileage car easily. Tons of BMW fun for little money
correct me if im wrong but that engine is the same as the one in the bmw 328i. that 4 cil. is a very responsive engine. a lot of automotive magazines in europe have praised the engine for the same reason. in the 328i makes 0 to 60 about 5 to 6 seconds don't remember well the number.
Sebastian Conde i don't get where the journalists get this idea from. Maybe they havent driven a NA engine for so long that they forgot what responsive means. I think it is an engine that is very fast but it doesn't feel so. Turbo lag is there like Jason said. Even the 3 liter 6 cylinder diesel (BMW or Audi) feel more responsive.
That and it doesn't make sense for BMW to compete in the lower cost car bracket cheapest BMW is about $34,500 or so. I'm sure in Europe it makes sense for them to snag some closer to economy car sales from competitors.
To expand on your torque band description. It has a torque plateau like that with a 2 liter turbo engine... BMW's 2.0 turbos are an Incredible feat of engineering. I remember my jaw dropping to the floor when I read the spec sheets on their debut of the 2.0 turbo 328i in 2011-2012. 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, 33 mpg highway, top speed of 130-155mph easily. Almost no compromise
Couple of comments: 1- what's funny is that most people forget that just a decade ago, pre-mainstream-turbo era, 200bhp+ were considered pretty darn powerful. In the mid 00's, 260hp was STi's territory. So heck yeah, 258bhp IS fast to start with. 2- @Engineering Explained: Jason, your channel is beginning to look like an infomercial... watchout so you don't alienate yourself from your base audience ;)
Hey Jason ! That rev-hang is definitely an issue on modern cars, but from my experience with BMWs, the clutch actuation is horrible due to the CDV (clutch delay valve). The M cars don't have these horrible valves, but the regular models do and have had for quite some time. On my E39, I removed it the day I got the car, and you can let the clutch out a lot faster. BMW has been catering to noob stick shift drivers for some time, so that it's hard to stall the car.
At the same time, in belgium, there is an eco-malus for powerful car.... You already have that with a gt86, 3500€ when you buy the car + around 500€ of taxes. To be fair, anything over 120hp is considered extremely powerful by most people here. EDIT: just checked for this car : 4950€ of circulation taxes when you buy it ( + 21% TVA).
It needs about 30 more hp throughout it's range.. I know this because I own a 230i.. And get this.. it weighs in over 3900 lbs.. But then again, mine is a Vert with AWD..
by "low powered", he means compared to many other sports cars. My Focus ST, when it was STOCK, made 252 and that was a front drive, sub-30k hot hatch. The WRX makes 268. Camry V6 makes 268 as well. Accord V6 makes 280. These days, 250 horsepower really isn't much considering up till a year ago, you could buy a Genesis Coupe 3.8 with a 350 HP V6 for only mid 30k range..
I also own a 2017 BMW 230i, and it most certainly does *not* weigh 3,900 lb. With the track-handling package and a manual (similarly equiped to the vehicle in the video) has a curb weight right around 3,350 lb
There are a lot of things I don't understand right away but I love your channel. It is is a shame you dont get more views but our culture not so much into learning now days!!! Blessings and thank you for all the data!!!
Mate that's not low power. It may be low power in the context of expensive cars which come with better components. Most of your subarus, mitsubishis, hyundais, fords etc. come with smaller 4 cylinder engines barely pushing 200hp. A turbo 4-cylinder BMW engine certainly isn't low power.
BMW has used Getrag manual transmissions for what it seems like forever and they've always been really good. The rev hang is most likely due to a clutch delay valve that was aded in by BMW.
What is is with americans saying it has 'only' 248 HP? That's a damn lot of horses. Hell, I had a Volvo S80 with a 170HP, and that was pretty damn good for it's time. Freaking awesome car, BTW. I saw Dave on Motor Trend say that his V8 with 400HP at the wheels was 'gutless.' WTH is wrong with you americans? No wonder your cars are still big, uneconomical and inefficient. Maybe try and learn something from the germans. At least they know how to make an efficient car. A 911 will beat your 550CI V8 around a track any day of the week.
Omg dude, a 911 is a mad expensive car. I'm so sick of people comparing their 6 figure plus "German engineering" with a muscle car from the 70s. American made cars like crhysrler, jeep, dodge, ram suck reliability wise. I'll give you that. But Chevy, Ford, is making some killer cars that are both quick and yes, what I'm about to say may blow your mind, but they can corner. And the best part you can get em for half the price of your German engineering with probably about the say reliability. And before you say it, no its bow going to be as fancy inside or out, but again half the price.
For part of your comment, the opposite is true. For the other parts, it's pretty much nonsense. What the hell is a "550CU" American car? In reality, American cars generally have comparable weight and efficiency. In some cases, more efficient, even with 2x the displacement and greater performance. Take the Corvette for example and its 29MPG rating, 30+MPG real world fuel economy, which is better than any comparable German car. And when it comes to track performance, American cars are currently dominating, beating any comparable German. The Viper ACR is not only faster than cars its price, it's faster than car 4x the price. Same with 1LE Camaros, the GT350 and all other top ranging performance cars from the US. It's actually embarrassing to watch how far the Germans have fallen when it comes to performance.
A Corvette is more efficient and will outperform any similarly priced 911. WTH is wrong with you eurosnobs with you not following the industry for the last 20 years? A lot has changed.
The real reason the BMWs have 0-60 speeds that compare closely to the Mustangs is the BMW's have smaller tire heights. 230/240i's run approximately 25" tire height (the diameter from the bottom edge of the tire to the top edge ie: the wheel + the tire on both sides), while Mustangs run approximately 27". This translates to improved acceleration (more torques) while sacrificing performance at higher speeds - not that anyone /should/ be driving the kinds of speeds where it becomes particularly relevant. The Mustangs also have a tread width that's about an inch wider, comparing the models mention, which means increased traction, but that's not necessarily always a good thing ~ Means you're going that much faster when you lose control, which is something we know Mustang owners have a problem with.
"just 248"? like its not much... Integra had 190 and was hella quick. btw: whats wrong about rev hang? you can shift, nothing is slowing you down or something... what is the problem?
The 528 has the same hp and is also very fun and quick. By the way, the lock button had been like that for a long time on BMWs, and the same with the mirrors. If you set the adjuster on left, the mirror tilts down to help parking.
crabjoe it's well known the the N20 engine (used in all 28i models) is very underrated. Just google “N20 dyno”. Numerous sources have tested these engines and found they make around 240 at the wheels (270-275 crank). The same thing applies to the new B series engines used in the 30i and 40i models.
It is well assumed.... not well known. Ask anyone that knows dynos and they'll tell you a dyno is only good for comparing the baseline of a given car on that dyno versus the same car with a mod on the same dyno. BTW, how many if these N20 dyno numbers used DIN procedures for testing? I've seen dyno numbers from a European dyno that did DIN and it was dead on to what BMW advertised.
crabjoe hardly anyone in North America is going to use DIN procedures for dyno runs. Most will be following SAE. If the countless dynos are not enough for you, just look at a stock 228i quarter mile time and trap speed.... 13.7 @ 101 you will NOT achieve those kinds of numbers at 3500lbs (3350curb plus driver) on street tires. It's going to take at least 260-270bhp to pull that off.
What makes a car fast: power, gearing, weight. You can fiddle with any of these levers to make a car faster or slower. However, you need one a single definition of "fast." Is it acceleration or top speed? I'll assume acceleration is the more important factor. A lower power car can use short gearing and lighter weight to be as faster or faster than a more powerful, heavier car. However, top-speed will be limited as gearing is shortened.
What's your reference point? 248hp is low compared to other 2L turbo charged engines sold in the US.. In additiona, do you know how much a 230i weighs? I do because BMW listed my 230i's weight and it's over 3900lbs... 248 is low for that amount of weight.
my reference would be that im having fun on the autobahn (driving 200+ kph) with a 200 hp 2 ton 525d from 2012. the 230i has 50 hp more and weighs about 0.3 tons less. i cant think of a situation on the street in which i would consider a 230i underpowered. even on the autobahn
I wish the 230i weighed less. My stock 230i weighs in at over 3900 lbs.. but it is AWD and a vert. Yes my car is quicker than most cars on the road, but that's because most cars are Camrys, Accords, Sonatas, and civics.. with NA 4 cylinders. I wish my 230 weighed about 400+ lbs less.. Then maybe the 248hp would be enough.. But right now, it's a pig compared to other turbo charged 2 liter cars on the road.
Great review and it reminds me of BMW's old E30's of the 80's, I guess if your budget doesn't stretch to the 240i then this little BMW is an excellent substitute.
affordable and 42.000 € LOL Just as an example I get a 310PS Seat Leon Cupra with every additional upgrade for 35.000€ and its making this BMW pale in comparison on the track. BMW, Audi and Mercedes new are absurdly overpriced.
Tobey Wins I agree that the German luxury brands are over priced. But, they can't stop selling them in the US so I guess my opinion doesn't really matter
I'm having deja vu. Could have sworn I have seen this before - where somewhat says "My car costs less and has more power; therefore, it's better!" You know, there are other aspects to a vehicle besides performance.
If you want underpowered, look up James Hunt's Austin A35 van, which came with 850cc engine. James was a Formula 1 winning driver and legendary TV race commentator.
-The gearing & powerband of the engine in the BMW contributes to its faster acceleration -Also small ~100kg weight (220lbs) differences make a huge difference for acceleration, handling, braking performance, etc
-BMW possess expert knowledge building sport oriented "ultimate driving machines" & their turbo engine tech is superlative -Good that BMW removed buttons. Electrical parts on BMW are known to develop problems over time. Fewer wires & connectors represents a substantial improvement -That Rev hang you notice is typical in modern vehicles with a manual transmission, I imagine to help with casual gear shifting by a tired driver in the real world -Boosted engines tend to have low torque peaks that help dramatically with acceleration! -BMW needs to waterproof their electrical connectors & protect wire insulation from sharp metal hold edges to prevent shorting & corrosion that reduces reliability of their cars!
All I see in the comment is people from other countries being salty they don't get powerful cars and calling Americans "spoiled" because we do?? Hate to point it out to y'all but the car he's driving is German so I don't see why y'all aren't calling Germans spoiled too. Doesn't make sense. Even the Kia Optima gets 250 hp nowadays, this 230i isn't that powerful at all.
Yeah, I agree that basically every car *in America* in the *entry-luxury* segment has about 240 horsepower or more, but saying "everybody" is a bit of a stretch. My last car was a Camry with 178 horses, and my girlfriend's Versa Note had 109 horsepower. Most people I know drive cars with less than 200 horsepower, easily, except for the ones who have the family truckster (e.g. Ford Explorer) or sports or luxury cars. All that notwithstanding, your review confirms my suspicion that the 2-series is most likely the driver's car of the BMW lineup nowadays.
The people saying that 250hp is a lot surprises me. You can get more than that in a Camry today lol. But it seems they're all from outside the USA. Back to the idea that low power cars can be quick, ABSOLUTELY! Look at Subarus. My 2005 Legacy GT 5MT went 0-60 in 5.2 from factory in 2004. Some WRXs go in 4.8 seconds, with within 5hp of what my car had factory. Everyone is always amazed when I give them a ride in my car, after I tell them how "little" power my car makes. Definitely not a sensation you expect!
230i low power 😂😂 really?? A 218i with like 100 maybe but not 250. Maybe it's US roads but in Europe 250 is easily enough to be considered quick. Heck most 2.0 tdis with like 150-180 are quick enough to the point that going from 30-50/60 takes barely any time at all
No I mean that the roads are more straight so more emphasis is put on straight line performance than the whole package. I know physics are the same there you codpiece. Yes considering he's clearly an intelligent guy he should know that 250bhp is more than what 97% or something of all cars on the road have today.
You can't compare this car to 97% of all cars on the road today. You have to compare it to other cars in it's class. Based on class, 248hp is low. Maybe I should compare this car to my truck.. My truck puts out close to 400hp and near 900 ft/lbs of torque.. Dang.. compared to my pickup trucks numbers, the 230i's engine is a slouch... BTW, other than the numb steering and the throttle lag, the 230i is a really fun car to drive... It's not as fun as driving a Mustang, but it's fun... The thing can go around bends and change lanes like it's on rails.
I can personally assure you the m240i is even more fun. And the best: you get the matching sound from the inline 6 3.0l engine you've missed in the 230i
It's funny reading Europeans say 250hp is a lot! Europeans produce high powered twin turbo v10 station wagons, 1,500 hp supercars, v12 twin turbo SUVs. I could go on. I understand a lot of people drive 100hp diesels because that's all that's needed in many areas but either way, 250 is not a lot but more than most people need, I'll say that.
Actually, most people here drive shitty 100HP diesels because that's what is affordable, and because those mere 100 horses take you to work and back home everyday without sucking too hard on your bank account. Unfortunately, here the word "downsizing" has been taking over, now it's full of low displacement turbos with 2-3 cylinders and 80-120 HP or crappy high mileage city cars. I myself am forced to drive a Fiat shitbox everyday because that's what we have at home. So yea, 248 HP is not "just", or low power, by any means in EU. Unfortunately, I might add.
I feel like all these new BMW's are basically all boost. I usually don't feel any power unless it gets to around 2k RPMS. My E46 330Ci is a naturally aspirated 3.0L inline 6 cylinder engine and the engine definitely feels like it makes more "real" feeling power while putting the foot down.
douglasmlinder I'm glad you bought an Ariel Atom. Why don't you take your kids to school anymore? The Atom is a two seater, you just have to make a few trips. Also your eye situation sucks but it could have been solved with a pair of goggles or a racing helmet. And I don't see why you have to take the Atom to Germany if there are plenty of great tracks in the US. Just practice a little bit and exercise a bit of caution and you won't die.
I love that this is considered a low powered car in the US. Our base model in the UK is the 216i. My Renaultsport is considered a serious hot hatch and it has "only" 275bhp...
I can't wrap my head around the fact that bmw does not offer neither the 230i nor 220i with manual transmission on most European markets, but they do in the USA
Lmao every comment in here complaining that he calls 250 hp low, but yet half of you probably think the FRS/BRZ at 200hp is way too little! Personally I think the power is right about perfect for this car. The rev hang is really the biggest thing for me as a potential buyer in the future. I appreciate the honest review! Thanks.
Fantastic review, as always. I enjoyed seeing you smile whilst you were giving it the beans around the twisty stuff. You looked like you were having a blast! I would love to see you reviewing an M140i/M240i soon. The B58 3.0 has some interesting technological advancements that you could talk about. For example, it has a feature where it can hold heat in the engine for up-to 24 hours to reduce engine wear (long term) on cold starts. How cool is that! All the best, Reg
Nice review. I'm actually considering one of these to replace my 2006 Mini Cooper. After 12 years of loud and stiff, I'm ready for a little quiet, lol. The only options I'm looking at are track pkg and heated seats and steering wheel. Should be a hoot!
Ok, there's no strategy of removing buttons at BMW HQ. The way the buttons are is how it has always been. Sit in a '97 5 series and it's the same. No middle position for the mirror adjusting buttons, only one door lock button, Cruse control is turned on and off by the same button. Only the skip track wheel used to be two separate buttons and that was up until 2004. I think the E65 was the last BMW with two separate buttons for skipping tracks.
It's most modem advanced engine there's today with 4 twin-tubro cylinders produces 258 lbs at low rpm 1600 rmp - 5000. Others are just catching up. You hear the engine at 6k rpm, it's so smooth.
Can only imagine how fun that car is on that back road! I have an E46 and it is soooo much fun on back road. Maybe because its the Ultimate Driving Machine😎
BMW's lightest(?) platform in the US with a 250ish HP turbo & ~$36K "base" MSRP, and what he drove is moar ... what a surprise it is peppy "if you are spending it anyways". Also, he got that nice S2000 and adjusted to it, so the torque got him. ;)
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Okay, I hear ya guys, 250 HP may not be low, but we're talking relatively here. I live in the US market, and in the US market when you spend $35k on something sporty (domestic or not), you can get a lot more than 250 HP. Can we all also agree that it's neat that the 240i can match the Mustang GT's 0-60 with 100 less HP? Yeah yeah, underrated, but no one is going to underrate their engines by 100 HP in a market where HP sells cars. My point was the car is cool, and makes do with less. It's neat, I enjoyed it, and I hope you all did to. Have a solid day!
The point is that any good youtube channel today, such as yours, is watched in many countries and we do understand that there are other realities out there, but the same way that we do, you should also be sometimes a bit more carefull in the words you use because people may take it badly and for a person living in a country where 250hp is more than 99% of the car fleet and is also a dream car and saying as if it was nothing can make people feel a bit odd about it. I hope you understand, I'm not bashing.
I'm with Leandro here, I watch your videos from Chile and here the base model is the 220i lol, the 230i here is kind of a big deal here.
I still get your point though
Did you get to see if it had rev hang with rev-match turned off? That fixes it with the M2.
I think there are other cheaper cars that can make you smile like you did in the BMW with just about 90 HP like the basic Honda Civic 1998-2002 which is really quick. I dont get it why all must be for the bmw ok I know the old bmw till like E36 are good but the new ones are not as cheap as some early Japanese cars or no where near their engines....
Yes it's not much power for a "sporty" car, but for a "every day car" it's not.
Is 248hp low? I'd say that's more than adequate for a modern day small car 🤔
A 'base' 218i over in the UK makes 145hp 🙃
Lucky Americans...
James Baggaley my car has 54 hp, feels fast enough to be honest
My car is rated for 255 horses, and the first time I drove it fast I was mind blown. Now I am more used to it, but it's fast enough for me, for sure. Note: I am an American. :D
Mine has 60hp i beat you haha
BMW X. What car man?
Peugeot 106 1.1i, while it's pretty slow, it's light and handles like a go kart so it has that going for it lmao
just 248hp ...
imma just take my 60hp polo and drive to the nearest corner to cry
May I join you with my 65hp Clio ?
I'll be wating for y'all with my 60hp 106
How quick is that Polo? Because I've got a 230i with the 248ph engine and I feels it's a bit slow for it's class.. But then again, my car weighs over 3900lbs.
halsti99 damn you Europeans got low power.
It's because it's the low power/economy version of the cars, it's very drivable and it's good enough for the road though, take a Polo GTI, Clio RS or 106 S16 and it's double (even triple depending on the year) the power
The 2 is what the 3 used to be. Sad that the legendary 3-Series has become so big and expensive.
No shade but the thumbnail looks like he just graduated highschool and his parents gave him a new BMW
Babycow I got mine before 11th grade lol
Jacob lucky
@@Jacob-xd3ko Are you still alive?
@@DoctorSkillz no
@@DoctorSkillz i honestly can’t even tell you why i posted that original comment. don’t even ask. it wasn’t really even that relevant to the original comment 😭😭😂😂
Do a video on what causes rev hang
philsag emissions
Yes please! And what it is and what causes it. It is still unclear to me!
Please do!
Quite simply, the ECU causes it (the computer that controls the engine). It's just software, nothing more.
That doesn't explain what it is and why it is there and why he hates it.
A small power of 248 horses 😆
Spoiled American Syndrom
Everything is so far apart in America that you have to drive for eons to get anywhere, often at highway speeds, meaning any deficit in powerout of a vehicle is very noticeable, especially crossing mountain passes!
His private vehicles include a Honda S2000 & previously a Subaru WRX STI, now a Subaru Crosstrek : so his vehicle choice preference history gives ample bias to his commentary
Aaron Schwarz wow highway speeds... that's what 80mph max? Possible in Europe too... or even more
50mph is typical for my country but there is a few roads where there is 60-68 but those are quite rare to see sadly
Aaron Schwarz you're confusing muscle freaks from the rest of us, quit stereotyping us
Ikr, my car has 125hp 160 torque, and weighs 4.000 pounds💀
In Europe, the "low power" base model is the 218i, with only 136hp out of a 1.5 litre inline straigt 3. Now that is LOW power :) Here everything above 200hp is pretty much considered powerful.
Inline straight 3*
Woops, talked to fast. You're absolutely right. Just edited my comment.
136WHP is not "low power", chap... Not by a long shot.
You can have a pretty quick car with 136WHP, all it takes is to strip it a little bit to reduce the weight, and you will have a quick and fun car with "just" 136WHP.
Power to weight ratio, power per litre, even the centre of gravity plays a factor in it. Give a wekk to me and that "low powered" 218i and I will make a beast of it, if you want a fast car... And guess what, I will not even spend money on it, just a few drops of sweat.
Here in Brazil we draw out 500WHP or MORE from inline 4's, that originally had 60-80WHP. Hell, with a few tweaks to the engine and better injectors we got 95WHP from a 55WHP car...
Eneko Prins re45tgggg(j7k(k8
@@arthurhenriquemendesberte2228 who said it was 136whp?
Don't forget BMW lies notoriously on their power outputs.
It's more like 250 whp
Wyatt Foster that's pretty much spot on... dyno's of the 228i N20 engine showed it making about 240whp, or 270-275chp. This new motor should be making a little bit more than that
What's the difference between WHP and regular horsepower? Is that like the number that is loses by the time it gets to the wheels or something?
Jacob that's right, bhp or chp (brake/crank horsepower) is measured at the crank. It's the power the engine makes without accessories and transmission/ driveline losses. Whp is measured at the wheels by a dyno. Frictional losses make a car's whp rating less than its bhp/chp rating.
Jacob 20% lose about from engine horsepower to wheel horsepower. Bmw always gives figures in whp
freakincrazy6932 oh wow didn't know that. Thanks!
How the f*ck the 230i is "low power"?
Are you serious? It's like the slowest BMW they offer at the moment, next to the 20/28 Idrive. This car is a light, agile thing forsure, but it is absolutely "low power" compared to other cars you would cross-shop for similar money. Especially when you compare to brands that have actually been aware of the horsepower war that has been raging in our industry for years, such as mercs or Audis lol
Aaron Freeman pretty sure the 28's are out from 2017 onwards.. The 30's replace them outwardly.
30's makes just a bit more hp and torque.
So now for most, it's a 20's, then next model is 30's, just to be clear
For Americans it's low, but then they usually haul half a house with them so it is required.
Alex Petrenko my old ass maxima has 190
Check out the non-American market for BMW. Where they offer plenty of sub-200 hp cars. Both the 3-series and the 5-series have like 10 different engine options over here in Europe.
These motors are hella underrated. They put down their crank rating at the wheels. And they definitely haul the mail. Friend of mine has one, and he picked my wife and I up from the airport at night. I didn't see the badge, and judging from the pull I assumed it was the 6 cylinder. The M240i must be a rocket.
"Just" 248hp
I get what he's saying though. Honda Accord, Toyota Camry etc all produce similar HP.
Jason normal cars in germany have 100-200hp maybe
Patrick more than that bmw notoriously underrates thier hp for insurance purposes. This car probably has 25-30 more hp at the crank than it states.
Bullion Forever then BMW may be reporting whp figures...
And here I am happily driving a 90hp 2014 Clio Icon.
The car is faster than a mustang because it has more power than what is advertised the same goes for VW or Audi they allways under report the horsepower ratings.
The only thing VW/Audi underreport is it's diesel emissions
Nutz4Gunz45 Burn :)
Martin Fisker
not diesel!
@Nutz4Gunz45 You may want to the 2015 Panorama documentary about the diesel emissions "scandal" and the recent German ADAC report on the subject.
It also puts down power better and has a flatter torque curve because it is boosted. People focus too much on peak numbers. Having XXX peak horsepower doesn't tell you everything, there's much to the story.
I have a 228i (older version of 230i) and that car is a joy to drive! Great acceleration, handles well. He does a good job of reviewing the car on its strengths and weaknesses. I have the automatic 8 speed though which is really fun for an automatic.
Also no lurching with the auto
"Low power" 250hp smh.
Levent Ergün Like he said...many cars have 300+, so yeah. 250 isnt impressive anymore.
Levent Ergün it's all relative - this is a bit of a fat piggy so that isn't that much power. Also, I never believe BMW power ratings. They are notorious for under rating / being very conservative and listing power that is closer to what's at the wheels than the crank. I am guessing this car would dyno at 250 which puts it closer to a 280hp at crank.
RationallySkeptical maybe in the US, Not in other countries..
Like in my country, I would say most have about 130 hp being the average. The popular choices all have about 102-106hp. The upper limits of 'affordable' gets this 248hp guise. Having anything more than 300 in an engine that's not a 2.0 ( or not a Volvo drive -e T6) means you'll be faced with a yearly roadtax of 200 USD for a 2.5l with 300+hp or more with bigger Cc engines
yup, its known that bmw underrates their cars however that was not my point.
Levent Ergün 300+ is impressive nowadays. We aren't in 2008 nomore
Could you make a video explaining a little bit more about "rev hanging",
what causes it and what would a manufacturer do to prevent that?
He's actually talked about it in the Civic Si review I believe. He said that it was actually implemented into the car by the manufacturer for emission control. Not 100 percent sure but I think they hang the revs so all that fuel in the air mixture is burnt off safely and not left to go out of the car unburnt. Again not exactly sure if that's true.
oh, ok thanks!
its actually because closing the throttle body so quickly creates a pressure spike, and that causes oil to vaporize and get into the exhaust.
This guy's content is arguably of the best on RUclips.
The BMW 230i is most certainly no entry level car even by BMW standards. At least in Europe the entry level BMW 2 is 218i with a puny 1.5 liter inline 4 and 136 horses.
Petr Benda inline 3 btw...
that moment when BMW's 30i is actually 2.0 and 18i is 1.5 ....
Actually it's an inline 3 ... same as the one in the Mini Cooper.
Thanks for the correction. Somehow I thought that I was a 4cylinder :-(
They are using a modular platform now with 1,5l I3, 2l I4 and 3l I6, all with the same cylinder dimensions, so that they can use a lot of the same parts, like pistons, rods, valves, ...
meanwhile in norway we get the 218 136 hp😂
same here in Germany :D
Same in everywhere in europe. BMW just does that for murican market because big is better
Same in all EU.
TheGroundRoof 316ti... N/A but, it puts rubber happily if needed
Have to be in agreement with the rest of the comment section... "Low Power" to me is somewhere around 50-80 HP
My current car with 204 (after I fix the exhaust manifold) is already considered quite powerful not only by others but by myself aswell... there is not really much I can't do with that power as long as I don't go on a track... so yeah... 218i would be considered low power for a modern car maybe... but not the 230i!
Low power by 2017 standard is like 130 hp. Like the Honda Fit.
Onliner94 you comparing your car to corollas? Lol
most cars in the US come from the factory with 250-300hp so for whats considered a performance car in the US at least that's low power
Omg... So I guess that I enter in the micro power category with my 75 hp Mazda :)))
idk my seat leon 2003 has 180 hp.. i consider 250 a bit over midlevel
I'm slowly becoming a fan of BMW and one just might be my next car. I really want a mid size or compact rear wheel drive car. I like how BMW is deleting some of the buttons to make it appear more old school. I don't care for the newer cars that have 100+ buttons across the steering wheel, dashboard, and center console.
KYDashcam go buy the Lexus GS before they kill it off. Best RWD chassis and highly underrated.
They are very fun to drive. I have access to Audis and Mercedez, and they have their own good points but I still prefer the BMW.
Never in a million years would I have thought I would've gotten one. So much more fun to drive than a Lexus. Everyone I know loves the minimalist interior and the lack of the safety features which takes away your control on the car.
Get a E46 compact... Wonderful car, and quite reliable, and rust-free
I came from an f30 328i to a GS350 F sport... My 328i had a long list of problems that kept growing once my bumper to bumper warranty had expired so I got rid of it.
Lol at the removing buttons comment.. Has he never been in a BMW before?? They've been using that same system for the mirrors, locks, etc since the late 90s.
+dosmastrify Oh I know, I was just commenting because EE was mistaken in thinking BMW's minimalist button theme was a recent thing. Personally, I will never own a car that requires a touch screen to change controls. I hate the way modern interiors are going honestly. They are less intuitive and downright dangerous. Plus the biggest issue for me is that they looked dated wayyyy faster than classic gauges and buttons.
Base or introductory cars in norway has about 100-120 hp. The 230i would be a quick car here.
In Norge you have less HP but way more beautiful girls............ You are the winner.....
I really like the graphics that show speed and rpm. That is a nice touch.
Great review. I own a 2017 230i manual myself, and it is the best car I've ever had. I test drove the 4 and 6-cylinder cars back-to-back, and I preferred the handling balance of the 4-cylinder to the extra power of the 6. Yeah, the 6-cylinder has more power, but it also weighs 150 lb more, and all that way hangs in the nose of the car past the front axle, and you can really feel it in the turns.
I completely agree with your assessment of the Track-Handling Package. I got both it and the M-Sport packages, the M-Sport being largely cosmetic, but it gave me the M-Sport steering wheel, which I *greatly* prefer to the default one on this car.
Again, thanks for this great and thorough review.
I have a 21 years old BMW and the buttons ( for mirrors, lock....) work the same. You sound like this is the first time driving a BMW :D The same goes for the acceleration hanging - which I very much enjoy, since it makes shifting so much easier. It is there by design.
My mom bought this thing, although the xdrive, automatic version. Of course I had to test it out, I was really surprised at the low end torque and how it pulls in general, especially 0-60ish. And that's coming from someone who dailies a supercharged vette lol.
A hidden feature of the mirror switch (if you don't read the manual) is that one position enables the passenger side mirror dip for reversing.
i've been driving my company's 330i on and off for 2 weeks now. it makes wanna sell my ralliart... BMW is awesome at smoothing out the turbo lag. gonna see if they offer 140i with x-drive in australia next year. if so, ciao ralliart.
"Would you rather..." purchase and daily drive a G70 2.0L manual or a 2021 BMW 230i manual 2 door coupe? I can buy either one for practically the same price. Great review by the way!
As much as i love BMW i would never buy one without the M-Package. The design and the technical differences are really worth it imo.
The M package on the 230i would have given you a different steering wheel, aero package. and slightly stiffer shocks. The test 230i didn't have the M package, but it had the track handling package, which is adjustable shocks, Brembo brakes, speed sensitive steering, and summer performance tires (MPSS). I'll take the track handling package over the M Sport package any day on the 230i.
Well, there is no THP in Germany, so I will stick with my M-Package over the stock one :P I really dislike the stock suspension, steering wheel, design and well... almost everything :P But yeah, if you live in the USA the THP is a no brainer.
M Sport Is worth the cash
Check out the older 128i if you want to have fun driving. The straight six builds up beautifully, clutch and transmission are so satisfying, and best of all hydraulic steering with BMW handling.
Jason, you're not used to drive BMW'S. There's not much surprises with this video.
One button does it all, why bother with multiple buttons for the same function?
BMW manual transmission is aggressive, it takes a long time to get used to it. On the other side, drive it fast and you'll see how awesome it becomes.
The reasoning for not having a center position for the outside mirrors is to turn off or on the mirror dip function. That has been a staple of BMW since at least the E46 and maybe earlier. When you put the vehicle into reverse, the passenger side mirror will dip downward so you can more easily see obstacles like curbs or parking spot lines. This feature only works if the mirror adjustment position is on the driver's side. If it's on the passenger's side, it deactivates the feature.
Not much horsepower is defined in europe as: 60 to 120 hp. So i'm pretty suprised 248hp isnt much horsepower. It gives me a good view of america
Yeah, in my country we have lots of fun pushing 90hp cars and that's pretty much the average in the area, I can't imagine 250hp being low at all.
Sven
Gas don't cost $7 a gallon in America.
Gregg B that is true. I live in NY we have some of the most expensive gas at the moment is 2.39 us. And i complaint is to much money. I own this car and is fun but i have 600HP before. Does not matter we dont have any highway that we can go and use it
60?? I can't think of many cars below 100 in America. Maybe the smart car.
Those 4 cyl 2 series are an amazing used car bargain. Anyone looking for a nice, sporty car about 22-26k can pick a low mileage car easily. Tons of BMW fun for little money
correct me if im wrong but that engine is the same as the one in the bmw 328i. that 4 cil. is a very responsive engine. a lot of automotive magazines in europe have praised the engine for the same reason. in the 328i makes 0 to 60 about 5 to 6 seconds don't remember well the number.
Sebastian Conde i don't get where the journalists get this idea from. Maybe they havent driven a NA engine for so long that they forgot what responsive means. I think it is an engine that is very fast but it doesn't feel so. Turbo lag is there like Jason said. Even the 3 liter 6 cylinder diesel (BMW or Audi) feel more responsive.
100sammo sorry i used the term responsiveness wrong. those journalists praised how the engine delivered power.
I got a Ford Fusion Sport 2011 with 263hp. i hit 0-60 in 6 and a half on second gear i love it.
The 230i is no where near a base spec. A base 2-series would be the 218i with an in-line 3 cylinder, rated at 136 hp.
230i is the base in the US.
A BMW with less than the 230 would not sell in the USA, and would start to damage BMW's image.
In Europe it's more acceptable to be slow like grandmother
That and it doesn't make sense for BMW to compete in the lower cost car bracket cheapest BMW is about $34,500 or so. I'm sure in Europe it makes sense for them to snag some closer to economy car sales from competitors.
To expand on your torque band description. It has a torque plateau like that with a 2 liter turbo engine... BMW's 2.0 turbos are an Incredible feat of engineering. I remember my jaw dropping to the floor when I read the spec sheets on their debut of the 2.0 turbo 328i in 2011-2012. 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, 33 mpg highway, top speed of 130-155mph easily. Almost no compromise
Dan Murphy the compromise is long term reliability and cost.
Couple of comments:
1- what's funny is that most people forget that just a decade ago, pre-mainstream-turbo era, 200bhp+ were considered pretty darn powerful. In the mid 00's, 260hp was STi's territory. So heck yeah, 258bhp IS fast to start with.
2- @Engineering Explained: Jason, your channel is beginning to look like an infomercial... watchout so you don't alienate yourself from your base audience ;)
Uhhhh that's one comment lol
Hey Jason ! That rev-hang is definitely an issue on modern cars, but from my experience with BMWs, the clutch actuation is horrible due to the CDV (clutch delay valve). The M cars don't have these horrible valves, but the regular models do and have had for quite some time. On my E39, I removed it the day I got the car, and you can let the clutch out a lot faster. BMW has been catering to noob stick shift drivers for some time, so that it's hard to stall the car.
I think this is a perfect daily driver...M240i and definitely the M2 are total OVERKILL!
32 Yr Old Casual Food Industry Worker it is not perfect because of the noise it makes :)
At the same time, in belgium, there is an eco-malus for powerful car.... You already have that with a gt86, 3500€ when you buy the car + around 500€ of taxes. To be fair, anything over 120hp is considered extremely powerful by most people here.
EDIT: just checked for this car : 4950€ of circulation taxes when you buy it ( + 21% TVA).
230i Low powered? WTF man
like he said 248hp isint a lot...
It needs about 30 more hp throughout it's range.. I know this because I own a 230i.. And get this.. it weighs in over 3900 lbs.. But then again, mine is a Vert with AWD..
They make for sure around 270hp and 290tq, the B48 engine for sure does not sure about the N20
by "low powered", he means compared to many other sports cars. My Focus ST, when it was STOCK, made 252 and that was a front drive, sub-30k hot hatch. The WRX makes 268. Camry V6 makes 268 as well. Accord V6 makes 280. These days, 250 horsepower really isn't much considering up till a year ago, you could buy a Genesis Coupe 3.8 with a 350 HP V6 for only mid 30k range..
I also own a 2017 BMW 230i, and it most certainly does *not* weigh 3,900 lb. With the track-handling package and a manual (similarly equiped to the vehicle in the video) has a curb weight right around 3,350 lb
Great review! Average power here in Belgium is around 120-160 horsepower though, so relatively speaking the 230i has quite a bit of power
Do a video on rev hang
Agreed, I've always believed that rev hang (counter-intuitively) is a fuel efficiency thing, not emissions.
Nice. I've always been a fan of BMW's standard trans. You can really slam that clutch with the inline restrictor (though you shouldn't often do so)
"This is the first manual bmw ive driven"
Bruh you gotta be kidding me
Jan Alexander ikr
Ha ha, my first car was a BMW manual😀
There are a lot of things I don't understand right away but I love your channel. It is is a shame you dont get more views but our culture not so much into learning now days!!! Blessings and thank you for all the data!!!
Mate that's not low power. It may be low power in the context of expensive cars which come with better components. Most of your subarus, mitsubishis, hyundais, fords etc. come with smaller 4 cylinder engines barely pushing 200hp. A turbo 4-cylinder BMW engine certainly isn't low power.
BMW has used Getrag manual transmissions for what it seems like forever and they've always been really good. The rev hang is most likely due to a clutch delay valve that was aded in by BMW.
What is is with americans saying it has 'only' 248 HP? That's a damn lot of horses. Hell, I had a Volvo S80 with a 170HP, and that was pretty damn good for it's time. Freaking awesome car, BTW.
I saw Dave on Motor Trend say that his V8 with 400HP at the wheels was 'gutless.' WTH is wrong with you americans? No wonder your cars are still big, uneconomical and inefficient. Maybe try and learn something from the germans. At least they know how to make an efficient car. A 911 will beat your 550CI V8 around a track any day of the week.
David Spaghetti What you are saying is so true
David Spaghetti what some of what you're saying is true but a 400hp car is gutless when you realise it's 7liters and the car weighs 5 thousand pounds
Omg dude, a 911 is a mad expensive car. I'm so sick of people comparing their 6 figure plus "German engineering" with a muscle car from the 70s. American made cars like crhysrler, jeep, dodge, ram suck reliability wise. I'll give you that. But Chevy, Ford, is making some killer cars that are both quick and yes, what I'm about to say may blow your mind, but they can corner. And the best part you can get em for half the price of your German engineering with probably about the say reliability. And before you say it, no its bow going to be as fancy inside or out, but again half the price.
For part of your comment, the opposite is true. For the other parts, it's pretty much nonsense. What the hell is a "550CU" American car? In reality, American cars generally have comparable weight and efficiency. In some cases, more efficient, even with 2x the displacement and greater performance. Take the Corvette for example and its 29MPG rating, 30+MPG real world fuel economy, which is better than any comparable German car. And when it comes to track performance, American cars are currently dominating, beating any comparable German. The Viper ACR is not only faster than cars its price, it's faster than car 4x the price. Same with 1LE Camaros, the GT350 and all other top ranging performance cars from the US. It's actually embarrassing to watch how far the Germans have fallen when it comes to performance.
A Corvette is more efficient and will outperform any similarly priced 911. WTH is wrong with you eurosnobs with you not following the industry for the last 20 years? A lot has changed.
The real reason the BMWs have 0-60 speeds that compare closely to the Mustangs is the BMW's have smaller tire heights. 230/240i's run approximately 25" tire height (the diameter from the bottom edge of the tire to the top edge ie: the wheel + the tire on both sides), while Mustangs run approximately 27". This translates to improved acceleration (more torques) while sacrificing performance at higher speeds - not that anyone /should/ be driving the kinds of speeds where it becomes particularly relevant. The Mustangs also have a tread width that's about an inch wider, comparing the models mention, which means increased traction, but that's not necessarily always a good thing ~ Means you're going that much faster when you lose control, which is something we know Mustang owners have a problem with.
"just 248"? like its not much... Integra had 190 and was hella quick.
btw: whats wrong about rev hang? you can shift, nothing is slowing you down or something... what is the problem?
yeah but the bmw is about a thousand lbs heavier than the integra
The 528 has the same hp and is also very fun and quick. By the way, the lock button had been like that for a long time on BMWs, and the same with the mirrors. If you set the adjuster on left, the mirror tilts down to help parking.
528i are pretty underpowered. 535i are equivalent to 328i's in terms of 0-60/1/4 mile etc. That'll be more similar to the way this 230i pulls.
only in america is a 230i a low power budget option, its actually laughable.
It's because it is for the US.. I have a 230i and it weighs in over 3900 lbs. Looking at the weight, 248hp is low.
really? are they that heavy?
crabjoe wow that weighs more then the battery electric tesla model 3. I thought electric cars were heavy
yeah i dont think that figure is correct.
It is for my 230i.. Mine is AWD and a Vert. I think the RWD coupes are round 3400-3500 lbs. These little 2 series cars are really heavy.
I have a 15 328 with just a 200 dollar jb+(added 3.75pd boost) and run 4.9 0 to 60 with perfect conditions and launch control
BMW notoriously under rates their engines. Probably more like 248 wheel horsepower
prove it! Speed isn't just about peak hp.. It's about power all along the rev range.
crabjoe I agree with you. All I'm saying is that you can't take BMW's hp figures for granted.
crabjoe it's well known the the N20 engine (used in all 28i models) is very underrated. Just google “N20 dyno”. Numerous sources have tested these engines and found they make around 240 at the wheels (270-275 crank). The same thing applies to the new B series engines used in the 30i and 40i models.
It is well assumed.... not well known. Ask anyone that knows dynos and they'll tell you a dyno is only good for comparing the baseline of a given car on that dyno versus the same car with a mod on the same dyno.
BTW, how many if these N20 dyno numbers used DIN procedures for testing? I've seen dyno numbers from a European dyno that did DIN and it was dead on to what BMW advertised.
crabjoe hardly anyone in North America is going to use DIN procedures for dyno runs. Most will be following SAE. If the countless dynos are not enough for you, just look at a stock 228i quarter mile time and trap speed.... 13.7 @ 101 you will NOT achieve those kinds of numbers at 3500lbs (3350curb plus driver) on street tires. It's going to take at least 260-270bhp to pull that off.
What makes a car fast: power, gearing, weight. You can fiddle with any of these levers to make a car faster or slower. However, you need one a single definition of "fast." Is it acceleration or top speed? I'll assume acceleration is the more important factor. A lower power car can use short gearing and lighter weight to be as faster or faster than a more powerful, heavier car. However, top-speed will be limited as gearing is shortened.
248hp low power? Is this planet u live Earth ? :p
What's your reference point? 248hp is low compared to other 2L turbo charged engines sold in the US.. In additiona, do you know how much a 230i weighs? I do because BMW listed my 230i's weight and it's over 3900lbs... 248 is low for that amount of weight.
my reference would be that im having fun on the autobahn (driving 200+ kph) with a 200 hp 2 ton 525d from 2012. the 230i has 50 hp more and weighs about 0.3 tons less. i cant think of a situation on the street in which i would consider a 230i underpowered. even on the autobahn
BMW has had that simplistic button layout for a decade at least. My E46 has the same setup.
" Low Power Cars Can Be Quick"
Miata: Yes~!! I have a little bro :D
"Just 248hp.."
Miata: D:
BMW is so much ahead of the game in terms of performance. In fact, Honda and Acura are still making only 200 HP for their Si and Integra even in 2024.
In america more horsepower = better
It should be more torque and less weight = better
I wish the 230i weighed less. My stock 230i weighs in at over 3900 lbs.. but it is AWD and a vert. Yes my car is quicker than most cars on the road, but that's because most cars are Camrys, Accords, Sonatas, and civics.. with NA 4 cylinders. I wish my 230 weighed about 400+ lbs less.. Then maybe the 248hp would be enough.. But right now, it's a pig compared to other turbo charged 2 liter cars on the road.
crabjoe I guess BMW had to cheap out somewhere to keep costs low. Might be the materials used but I'm not sure.
That's why there's the BMW 2 series to show us Americans how it's done
JTL it's relatively cheap for what you get... They could've thrown in xenons and cooled seats for anyone that spent around $40K though....
Great review and it reminds me of BMW's old E30's of the 80's, I guess if your budget doesn't stretch to the 240i then this little BMW is an excellent substitute.
affordable and 42.000 € LOL
Just as an example I get a 310PS Seat Leon Cupra with every additional upgrade for 35.000€ and its making this BMW pale in comparison on the track. BMW, Audi and Mercedes new are absurdly overpriced.
Damn you're lucky. LEON is not available for us. Wish they sell globally, I really like the styling.
Tobey Wins but then you have sit in Seat
Tobey Wins I agree that the German luxury brands are over priced. But, they can't stop selling them in the US so I guess my opinion doesn't really matter
Seat... who doesnt like understeer?
I'm having deja vu. Could have sworn I have seen this before - where somewhat says "My car costs less and has more power; therefore, it's better!" You know, there are other aspects to a vehicle besides performance.
If you want underpowered, look up James Hunt's Austin A35 van, which came with 850cc engine. James was a Formula 1 winning driver and legendary TV race commentator.
Just? lol most 2 series cars here are 218d which has 150bhp, the 220i is considered to have decent power.
that "rev hang" is actually a clutch delay valve that bmw uses which lets u shift slower. that & the fact that bmw flywheels are heavy from factory.
You guys lol. I have a 1999 toyota avalon with 200 hp.
-The gearing & powerband of the engine in the BMW contributes to its faster acceleration
-Also small ~100kg weight (220lbs) differences make a huge difference for acceleration, handling, braking performance, etc
-BMW possess expert knowledge building sport oriented "ultimate driving machines" & their turbo engine tech is superlative
-Good that BMW removed buttons. Electrical parts on BMW are known to develop problems over time. Fewer wires & connectors represents a substantial improvement
-That Rev hang you notice is typical in modern vehicles with a manual transmission, I imagine to help with casual gear shifting by a tired driver in the real world
-Boosted engines tend to have low torque peaks that help dramatically with acceleration!
-BMW needs to waterproof their electrical connectors & protect wire insulation from sharp metal hold edges to prevent shorting & corrosion that reduces reliability of their cars!
All I see in the comment is people from other countries being salty they don't get powerful cars and calling Americans "spoiled" because we do?? Hate to point it out to y'all but the car he's driving is German so I don't see why y'all aren't calling Germans spoiled too. Doesn't make sense. Even the Kia Optima gets 250 hp nowadays, this 230i isn't that powerful at all.
Yeah, I agree that basically every car *in America* in the *entry-luxury* segment has about 240 horsepower or more, but saying "everybody" is a bit of a stretch. My last car was a Camry with 178 horses, and my girlfriend's Versa Note had 109 horsepower. Most people I know drive cars with less than 200 horsepower, easily, except for the ones who have the family truckster (e.g. Ford Explorer) or sports or luxury cars.
All that notwithstanding, your review confirms my suspicion that the 2-series is most likely the driver's car of the BMW lineup nowadays.
A 230i isn't a low power car. A 218i is.
The people saying that 250hp is a lot surprises me. You can get more than that in a Camry today lol. But it seems they're all from outside the USA.
Back to the idea that low power cars can be quick, ABSOLUTELY! Look at Subarus. My 2005 Legacy GT 5MT went 0-60 in 5.2 from factory in 2004. Some WRXs go in 4.8 seconds, with within 5hp of what my car had factory. Everyone is always amazed when I give them a ride in my car, after I tell them how "little" power my car makes. Definitely not a sensation you expect!
230i low power 😂😂 really?? A 218i with like 100 maybe but not 250. Maybe it's US roads but in Europe 250 is easily enough to be considered quick. Heck most 2.0 tdis with like 150-180 are quick enough to the point that going from 30-50/60 takes barely any time at all
No I mean that the roads are more straight so more emphasis is put on straight line performance than the whole package. I know physics are the same there you codpiece.
Yes considering he's clearly an intelligent guy he should know that 250bhp is more than what 97% or something of all cars on the road have today.
You can't compare this car to 97% of all cars on the road today. You have to compare it to other cars in it's class. Based on class, 248hp is low. Maybe I should compare this car to my truck.. My truck puts out close to 400hp and near 900 ft/lbs of torque.. Dang.. compared to my pickup trucks numbers, the 230i's engine is a slouch...
BTW, other than the numb steering and the throttle lag, the 230i is a really fun car to drive... It's not as fun as driving a Mustang, but it's fun... The thing can go around bends and change lanes like it's on rails.
crabjoe I'm not comparing the car, I'm comparing the power output
I can personally assure you the m240i is even more fun. And the best: you get the matching sound from the inline 6 3.0l engine you've missed in the 230i
It's funny reading Europeans say 250hp is a lot! Europeans produce high powered twin turbo v10 station wagons, 1,500 hp supercars, v12 twin turbo SUVs. I could go on. I understand a lot of people drive 100hp diesels because that's all that's needed in many areas but either way, 250 is not a lot but more than most people need, I'll say that.
Actually, most people here drive shitty 100HP diesels because that's what is affordable, and because those mere 100 horses take you to work and back home everyday without sucking too hard on your bank account. Unfortunately, here the word "downsizing" has been taking over, now it's full of low displacement turbos with 2-3 cylinders and 80-120 HP or crappy high mileage city cars. I myself am forced to drive a Fiat shitbox everyday because that's what we have at home. So yea, 248 HP is not "just", or low power, by any means in EU. Unfortunately, I might add.
Bc they get to use all 180 of the horsepower on the Autobahn. If we have more power here (around 400), we get to use about half of it (say 200)
I feel like all these new BMW's are basically all boost. I usually don't feel any power unless it gets to around 2k RPMS. My E46 330Ci is a naturally aspirated 3.0L inline 6 cylinder engine and the engine definitely feels like it makes more "real" feeling power while putting the foot down.
Civics prove lower power cars are also slow
douglasmlinder wrong
douglasmlinder I'm glad you bought an Ariel Atom. Why don't you take your kids to school anymore? The Atom is a two seater, you just have to make a few trips. Also your eye situation sucks but it could have been solved with a pair of goggles or a racing helmet. And I don't see why you have to take the Atom to Germany if there are plenty of great tracks in the US. Just practice a little bit and exercise a bit of caution and you won't die.
I love that this is considered a low powered car in the US. Our base model in the UK is the 216i. My Renaultsport is considered a serious hot hatch and it has "only" 275bhp...
The mustang has fat lazy burger eating merica horses and the 230i has German efficient hard working horses
mustang 310 hp 1/4 mile ; 13.8 at 102 mph , 3625 lbs bmw 248 hp 1/4 mile 13.9 at 100 mph but 3571 lbs less weight
and we all know BMW has always under rated their power ratings
I can't wrap my head around the fact that bmw does not offer neither the 230i nor 220i with manual transmission on most European markets, but they do in the USA
For the same price you can get a Mustang GT with a 5.0 V8 producing 435hp and 400lb/ft torque.
James Bevins and... Never take a corner again and live to tell about it.
Yeah but then you're in a ford
FORD: fix or repair daily :)
Ed Arnold can confirm, Ford rentals have left me stranded multiple times.
The last time I rented a Ford Mustang, it over-heated and stranded me in New England. Have made it a point since then not to rent Fords.
My E46 325I has 190 HP and that feels pretty good.. but it is the I6 and BMW I6s are really smooth and torquey
German rice burner. Nice!
Lmao every comment in here complaining that he calls 250 hp low, but yet half of you probably think the FRS/BRZ at 200hp is way too little!
Personally I think the power is right about perfect for this car. The rev hang is really the biggest thing for me as a potential buyer in the future. I appreciate the honest review! Thanks.
Fantastic review, as always. I enjoyed seeing you smile whilst you were giving it the beans around the twisty stuff. You looked like you were having a blast! I would love to see you reviewing an M140i/M240i soon. The B58 3.0 has some interesting technological advancements that you could talk about. For example, it has a feature where it can hold heat in the engine for up-to 24 hours to reduce engine wear (long term) on cold starts. How cool is that!
All the best,
Reg
Nice review. I'm actually considering one of these to replace my 2006 Mini Cooper. After 12 years of loud and stiff, I'm ready for a little quiet, lol. The only options I'm looking at are track pkg and heated seats and steering wheel. Should be a hoot!
248 hp is low power??? Are you kidding??? How about a 65hp Citroen C1??? 248 is A LOT of power. It's twice the power of a family hatch.
Ok, there's no strategy of removing buttons at BMW HQ. The way the buttons are is how it has always been. Sit in a '97 5 series and it's the same. No middle position for the mirror adjusting buttons, only one door lock button, Cruse control is turned on and off by the same button. Only the skip track wheel used to be two separate buttons and that was up until 2004. I think the E65 was the last BMW with two separate buttons for skipping tracks.
It's most modem advanced engine there's today with 4 twin-tubro cylinders produces 258 lbs at low rpm 1600 rmp - 5000. Others are just catching up. You hear the engine at 6k rpm, it's so smooth.
Fantastic review. Most reviewers don't spend enough time on ergonomics or steering and pedal feel. Subscribed.
Can only imagine how fun that car is on that back road! I have an E46 and it is soooo much fun on back road. Maybe because its the Ultimate Driving Machine😎
BMW's lightest(?) platform in the US with a 250ish HP turbo & ~$36K "base" MSRP, and what he drove is moar ... what a surprise it is peppy "if you are spending it anyways". Also, he got that nice S2000 and adjusted to it, so the torque got him. ;)
Reminds me of the B5 S4, which had 250hp. If it's light and responsive, it'll be slow car fast fun.
The best car channel ever
The 530i is a monster in sport mode. Review the BMW 530i.
Yea I got a 14 GT when the 340i came out and swap it that 340i is a rocket and incredible balance.