The reason dust 2 is so stale, is because it's the most common map. If you have dust 2 in when searching for maps, there is a pretty big chance you'll get it. It's not a bad map, it's just that eating the same dish, day in, day out, is awful.
A few days ago I had a game where we were getting raped as CTs on Nuke. By halftime it was 15-0 for the Ts and one of the enemies was spamming how bad we were for fucking up CT-side so much. On T-side we managed to tie 15-15. I was the weirdest game I have ever played in my 500 hours of CSGO
Nuke had it coming, since the first time i played that map i hated it with all the hate possible. NOW IT BURNS IN HELL OF MAPS :D. On another note i just select the ones from active duty and let the game random a map.
I bloody love your way of thinking, you are a genius at what you do, and I hope you keep doing it to the high standard consistent in all of your videos. You set the whole thing up so clearly and make it seem easy to a simple viewer such as myself!
What is your opinion on perfectly symmetrical (except for a few similar props or textures)? Something like 2fort from Team Fortress 2 for example? For all intents and purposes the map is perfectly balanced from a design point of view, why is it that competitive games aren't played on these kinds of maps?
Because unlike CTF the maps cannot be perfectly symmetrical. This is because the gameplay of CSGO is focused around attack and defense and not a mutual attacking goal on each side. Thus one part of the map has to be the trail to get to the area the CTs are defending while the other is that area. Symmetry in maps you cannot have that happen, unless you mean to imply you want bomb site a and b to be the exact same, in that case it just makes for boring gameplay.
I think all the maps should be balanced to be near 50% win rate to both sides.. that's a lot funnier to play than unbalanced maps.. I HATED nuke, thank god it's gone..
RyuuuGaming Compare the difference between CSGO Nuke and CS1.6 Nuke, 1.6 nuke was not ct sided because it alot of more textures like boxes covering some CT players so that the terrorists have more space. For example in 1.6 there was a big box near window under heaven, ct's could not see anyone who ran into main by camping near the window because of the box. But they removed it in CSGO and that gave the ct's a big advantage because they can see who runs into main and who runs towards secret...
One of your best videos 3kilksphilip. I love discussion of the meta. I don't agree with Thorin every time, and I enjoy your counter arguments towards his. Would love to hear you discus more on these topics in the future.
I have a question: So, whenever I see replays of 360s or even pistol rounds, I always see the gun shoot, then the professional player gets a headshot, THEN the crosshair points at the opponent's head. How does the game know where the player will put their crosshair BEFORE the crosshair is aimed at where the bullet landed? Is this a delay (which doesn't seem possible), or is the game guessing where you would shoot if you were to keep moving the mouse at a constant speed, or what?
5:18 "Then nuke is a plate full of potatoes. Yeees they're nice, but you need to leave room for everything else." Following this logic if there was a good Irish team on CS:GO they would probably win ever match on nuke. Those Irish love their potatoes.
i hate when people say the map is balanced because you switched sides. if you are t's and get kicked 12-3. when you switched sides there is a major psychological effect that reduces the effectiveness of the losing team, making them miss shots from the rage they have built up or the crumbling of teamwork as people blame loses on others rather than themselves. when you switch sides you only have 1-3 rounds to get back to a position where wining can happen(when losing 12-3 or something like that). and with the randomness of pistol rounds a comeback is harder then just starting on the opposite team.
Having mained Nuke for a long ass time, I don't find it as CT sided as everyone else. Even though it really is. When playing in a team on Nuke, we usually end 8-7 or 10-5, being ahead on T side. Learning outside smokes and using spawns to your advantage helps a load on Nuke. Just never rush A, not even on ECO's.
My opinion is that Nuke is entertaining to play exactly because you can turn the match around completely when you switch sides. So if you random queue it's often about winning some rounds as T and trying to keep angry russians in the mood to stick around for the latter half, and often you will draw or win even with a horrible start. (and I'm saying that as one that very rarely get to start as CT on Nuke)
I'd like to add to the map balance discussion that your box map isnt balanced. cts have less one shot weapons, less power per bullet (atleast i think they do based on some of your statistic videos) so surely a simple one person on each side is imbalanced in at least some way due to the weapons available to the people. i think this plays a large part than we think in the balancing and discussion around balance. because realistically the teams perform different jobs. the ts side should be short straight paths with a fwe hiding spots towards what is then the more complex connection between the sites. because the cts should no be able to freely run between the sites. on a tdm, the ct side should theoretically have more cover allowing them to play a more defensive tdm style to match the weapons they have. i know that as a CT if i have to push into a bomb site to defuse i will always switch to an ak on the floor if i can becuase i am going to need that one shot potential. I don't really have a point i just found it interesting.
Pistol rounds aren't random. if anything they are the rounds that show the team with the best strat, skill and aim. In buys rounds the outcome of the round could be decided from one player not having enough money to buy nades. So I don't see Nuke as a problem in the map pool, especally since it was replaced by train, a map that most pro teams obviously dislike and is still just as CT sided as nuke.
William Gebhart Strat, skill and aim... heres a good strat press adadadada and keep shooting. thats pretty much what pros do in pistol rounds and by this pistol rounds favor the T side more cause they are rushing and since there is no weapon innacuracy while moving with pistols Ts can just keep running around and be insanely accurate(glock and tec-9s), plus they dont have to bother about shortage of ammo compared to the usp and p2000 the cts are given. The biggest problem in this game would be the pistol balance not maps cause nuke has been out there for 15 years and they never changed it so why should they now?
Sorry Mate, but i think you've lost the plot on this point. One thing that redditors (less experienced CS players) don't actually realize, in my opinion, is that (most of) the best maps NEED to be "CT sided" to the average pug game, if they're to be good. If most of these players had their way, they would have it so T sides could get half the rounds by simply walking up together and taking aim duels; maybe throwing 1 or 2 flashes, and a smoke. CS would be a TERRIBLE game if you could win a ton of T rounds by doing this against equally skilled opponents! The whole point of map balance is such that a fully equipped CT side always has the inherent advantage when T's enter a site normally; what i mean by this is that if the T's lack info, have not manipulated the CT side at all, and simply choose to "enter" a random site based on a whim, then, in THIS case, the CT side should always win the majority of the time. Why? Because that's the point of the game. The T side needs to use map control, information, and various strategies and reads to manipulate CT sides so as to open up a weakness in the defense. ONLY THEN should the T side have favorable exchanges when they execute. The CT's, have to try their best to counter whatever the T side is trying to achieve by collecting as much information and preventing T map control without giving up any picks. This cat and mouse game between the sides is what makes Counter Strike so good, tactical, and team-based. THAT is what a TRULY balanced map achieves. It's not to do with how many rounds each team wins. You might point out, "hey, that makes it way harder for Ts to get as many rounds as CTs!". Well, frankly, yes, it does. But isn't it obvious that the whole economy of the game is designed to fit this model? CT's have a much more difficult economy to manage, meaning that they have to remain consistent and solid in all rounds (even winning whilst losing 3 or 4 players is not enough to maintain economic control). This often means that a good T half (6-7 rounds) might only require 2 or maybe 3 wins against fully equipped CT sides. If every map were balanced STATISTICALLY, the game would lose so much of what it is. It would mean T sides could be consistently successful by simply calling "let's split a with 2 flashes" in freeze-time and just overwhelming the CTs, because the angles and design no longer inherently favor the defense. Remember, CTs have to go 2 v 5 in a rush! Does anyone really want that to be the case?? There is a reason Dust2 is called the 'pug-map' amongst any skilled player. Because it's the map where the puggy, less coordinated teams have a chance to upset tactically superior teams. Don't get me wrong, Dust2 is an amazing map, but its a rarity; an exception to the rule. Let's take an almost perfect analogy; the most watched, played and followed sport in the world. Football. (the one where you actually use your feet). How often is an attack on goal actually successful in football? One in ten? twenty? Who knows the actual statistic, but the point is, the defenders clearly have an inherent advantage in their activity; it's much easier to stop someone scoring a goal than to score one yourself. But now imagine that everyone starting getting upset about this, claiming that it's too hard for strikers, and that it's unfair that so few attacks should be successful. So now let's think, that they changes the rules in response. Now, you can only have 3 defenders at a time, or whatever, so that 50 percent of the attacks ended up as a goal. That would COMPLETELY RUIN THE SPORT! The whole point of attacking is trying to pass the ball around, make space, draw out defenders, so as to OPEN UP a weakness. That is what makes the sport so exciting and brilliant! One final point. You say in your video that on maps like Nuke that T's usually only get rounds due to mistakes by the CT side. But this could be said about anything! 'Oh well the T's only won because the CT side didn't head-shot them all when they came in.' 'oh well messi only scored then because the left back was out of position'. 'Oh, Federer only won Wimbledon because his opponent missed his lob'. Sports are comprised of imperfect humans; attacking is just as much about drawing out mistakes from the defenders as it is about 'perfect play'.
bslapshot Inferno is pretty rough. Attacking B is intense, and defending A is tough. However, I personally still like it. There's some cool strategies that come from this map, it's formulaic, maybe, but there's enough strategies and tricks to keep things interesting. I would love to have Season in the map pool.
This is good stuff, especially since it pretty much confirms that I should probably shoot for 3 maps for a game alpha or beta. One attacker sided, one defender sided, and one perfectly balanced map.
I don't mind maps that are somewhat sided (Mirage, Cache, Overpass). But maps like Nuke and Inferno are just too sided. A bad team can beat a good team on Nuke simply because they start T side, get a few rounds and then just easily win out on CT side. Half of playing Nuke is shooting terrorists in the feet before they can see you.
Nuke is easier to play CT side, but the fun - at least for me - comes in when its down to a 2v2 or 1v1 (maybe even 3v3) because of the fast rotations through many different paths. It allows you to outsmart your opponent and keep you on your toes from all angles.
I notice in the stats that most maps are CT-sided. Some may have to do with the map layout, yes, but another thing that I noticed is they are all defuse maps. In these types of games, even on a perfectly balanced map CTs have and advantage right off the bat, because they have a passive objective, which is preventing the bomb from being planted; while Ts have an active objective of having to plant the bomb. Only when (and if) the bomb is planted the roles are inverted, and the CTs have an active objective of defusing the bomb, and Ts have to defend it. To illustrate what i'm trying to say, suppose both teams do absolutely nothing. Who wins? CTs of course, because the Ts failed their objective of planting the bomb. This scenario obviously changes when the bomb is planted, where if nothing is done from there the bomb detonates and Ts win. But overall, the CTs only have to hide killing whoever enters a certain room, and if the bomb carrier is down (just 1 player) then their objective is halfway done, because all they have to do is defend it from being picked up again, so everyone flocks to the where the bomb has dropped and the round is pretty much settled. The total opposite is in hostage rescue maps, where CTs have the active objective, and Ts a passive one, but there are none of those in the competitive map pool (I don't know why, anyone care to tell me?). I would like to see stats on these types of maps (like assault, office, etc.), because I bet they are more T-sided in general. One last thing. It's true that teams switch at half time, but "halftime" is not exactly at the half of the rounds played, I'ts a fixed 15 rounds of a total possible of 30. The truth is, most games don't reach 30 rounds, so the team that starts as CT has the advantage of playing 15 rounds as CT. I think it would make more sense balance-wise to switch at every round, to make it an equal amount of rounds being played on either side. Then again, it's just an idea and I haven't put much thought into it.
3kliksphilip is the reason I start mapping in source, with his excellent easy to learn tutorials, I don´t enjoy CS but I do watch his videos because they always have something interesting.
Dear Philip, As i was watching you play with 9 other youtubers on the video Manntrouse posted on the 45:19 minute u can see a bucket flying by is it possible that if Pala would be more to the left and low on health would it kill him?
Am i the only one who thinks a side nuke would be a lot better if they took out the rafters completely. Its a hassle having to check them and makes a site very ct sided.
+DesertEagle720 I believe they should still keep rafter in when they balance Nuke. The thing I like about A site is that while the hut and squeaky entrance are the fastest, they are also dangerous whereas entering through heaven or mini is slower but a lot safer.
+Baynard Baggs I honestly don't care. Balance has never been an issue since I play the maps that have unique layouts and look good, like Vertigo and Office. The rafters on Nuke look cool as hell and make the map more vertical, and I like the vertical style.
Philip I have a nice idea for a future video. Could you talk about aspects that relate to reaction time in CSGO? For example, talk about latency, input lag of peripherals(mouse, keyboard, and monitor), how many milliseconds you can see a ct crossing mid doors in dust 2 for, aiming at corners(and how far to aim if you use optimal reaction time), etc. Basically, a video about latency, input lag, and reaction time :)
I love Nuke, its the best map in the game. If they change it, I'm going to be so mad. Sure it's unbalanced, but if you are better on t side, then you can do pretty well. Usually, it's 7-8 in my games, if I start on T side. CT side, its 11-4 or 13-2. It is balanced, just in a completely different way than in cs. You need to play a different way to do well on t side nuke.
Martin Kleiven Im DMG currently on my main account, and I have not been able to play it on ESEA, which has been where I have been for the past month and a half, and where I have gotten better. But my main and smurf are both DMG :P.
At the very least they need to remove the path you need to take from spawn to get to bombsites, Phillip explained in another video that the time walking on that path is a total of 2 minutes in a full mm game, it wastes time in rounds that is crucial at a pro level. The map isn't good also because it doesn't follow the dust 2 sort of format.
ThuQ Ninja Thing is. It is really common for nuke CT to be 12-3. It is not fun to play(especially when you start on T) nor watch. Yeah 7-8 on T is possible if your opponents dont know what to do. Problem comes when you are forced play against solid opponents, and get destroyed round after round on T, without any ability to do something about it. In pro matches on nuke, you could watch the first three rounds and then go have a snack, till half time.
3:50 Do these data contain the same quantity of matches played, or do some maps (like Dust 2) have data with more matches played on it? More data on some maps, WILL skew with the remaining data, and how more matches are played, how farther to a 50% it will reach.
7:07 DID YOU SEE THE BOMB FLY UP ON TOP OF THE BOXES?!?! I HAVE NEVER SEEN THAT HAPPEN BEFORE IN ALL OF MY YEARS OF PLAYING COUNTER STRIKE lmao that's actually cool
Back when I used to play competitively (source) nuke used to be my favorite map, especially on T. I was pretty good, especially for the era, but my playstyle used to rest very heavily on quick reactions and exceptional aim (especially close-mid distance). My gamesense, mostly tracking enemies (because I could often get the shot anyway), and especially consistency (high mouse sens) were my weak side. So as nuke I could often pull off very aggressive picks from a strongly disadvantaged position which would single handedly win the round. It didn't matter if half the rounds I was inconsistent because they would be lost rounds anyway. My gamesense didn't matter as much at all, after I got the picks the rest of my team could lock down the round. Dust2 just felt overplayed and generally bland. The map might be well balanced but that means it never had any character to me. I wish dust2-only teams weren't so popular in the day but its nice to see that's improving a little these days, even if I am no longer playing.
When I played nuke when it was in active duty, a lot of people would argue that it was fine we started on t because we will eventually get to play ct, even if they won every round we could still draw, by the time your done losing continuously, even if you were as good as the other team when they played morale is as low as the waiting time on dust 2, whereas the other team are as high and elated as Aztecs waiting time
I agree! A potatoes are the best, but if you don't leave room for say salt, or some type of meat they just aren't worth the time it takes to eat them! Thank you Philip, finally I can explain this to people properly!
If there is a tournament next year that's gonna be on april fools day, they need to add; Militia, Office and a bunch of other not active map pool maps there so we can see the pro strats for the map.
At 7:07 the killed T seems to drop the bomb onto the crates due to being killed. Is this (still) an issue? At least it wouldn't require trolling to deny bomb plants.
Wow, this is actually so interesting i might get into Hammer map design and try to make balanced games. The hardest part would probably be finding people to test it.
I have almost never solo queued in matchmaking. I almost always play with 3-5 friends and Nuke is our favorite map because we can almost always have an advantage on either side due to teamwork and communication and learning how everyone plays.
I loved nuke and often played it as the only map in my que. Now replaced by Mirage. I think CT sided maps like old Nuke were good for the game. At the same time I think it needed a rework but I didn't like how they changed it. Nuke wouldnt of been so bad if it was 10-5 average CT instead of 12-3. That said at lower ranks it helped teach me how to hold corners and improved my CT side. Because you're expected to win CT and you know how many you're suppose to win. It was really good for teaching a new player how to play CT. Since you learned patience and holding corners. As far as competitive play I understand why it was removed and changed.
I loved nuke before they reworked it. The T-side was a challenge. And it was fun. Picking people of outside, or on ramp, or in main. Leavning the enemy team in a situation were they have to figure out if i'll use it to push or fake. Like. It had a lot of mindgames. And once you mastered it the T-side was no longer like "running into a brick wall".
What would be interesting would be a one way access for Terrorist to A site heaven. This could turn the tables drastically as CT's who will still access heaven quicker will have to watch for a peak at a similar level inaccessible for them (unless allowed by a boost or something). This would definitely encourage more A site pushes. Note: T-spot Heaven on A-site would be placed on the same side as CT Heaven meaning it will take time to get too and still be vulnerable to CT members already hiding along the rails in A-site. Just an interesting thought I had while watching this video again.
My favorite is mirage because I see it as a real tactical map I like inferno because you can do so much on t side like a double fake and I like overpass because it is an interesting map imo
yeah the map pool should be balanced and have a variety of maps that can pull out very different play styles, but thank you for making this video, since actual map balance is important no matter what kind of map it is and should still find ways to be the best map it can be by the things that make it unique
I actaully think some maps should be unbalanced.I love Nuke,its my most favourite map.The best thing on it is fact the map is not balanced.If you win on t side,it shows your skills and tactics,and its a great feeling overall.Also,on nuke you can see most exciting comebacks.Map fits me perfectly,i love playing it on both ct and t side,but prefer t side because of bigger freedom on map.I never lost a nuke game because i started on t side,i lost because we played worse(no matter on which side we started),or i won because we were able to take some rounds on t side(usually atleast 5 or 6 rounds)and then won ct,or because we destroyed them on both sides
I'm Gold Nova Master so not a high rank but not a noob either but I personally love Nuke, and find that atleast on my elo rushing a bomb site isn't that hard. You are right maybe A but B over secret? A few go door, 1 goes window and 1 or 2 go vents. there is smaller place / corners to B than to A because A has heaven which gives it 6 more spots to stay. Therefore I think bombspot A is balanced but B is indeed way more balanced. So now the question is, did Valve take the results from B Plants or from A plants? Probably all plants together but they should make a survey which bombsite is more balanced and easier to take as T
I feel like the reasons described in the video, explain why people describe dust2 as an aim map, because its more about the skill about the individual player than the actual map it's self
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Next 3kliksphilip's video: How nuke sucks (part 957)
Gerrard Steven Next 3kliksphilip video: "How much I love Dust 2 (part 7331)"
Gerrard Steven for shure
20 likes, am I famous yet?
***** lol
Please do some sdk tutorials i miss them
How to balance nuke
Step 1: Make it a Hostage map
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit
cs_nuke
So what are u gonna nuke then? 🤔
the hostages
Cs_atomic?
IHD holy
7:07 worst place for bomb to fall
Let's hope the last guy wasn't able to go far, and that he didn't lose the round because of one random occurrence.
Valve, please fix.
Cob on the Corn I think he was the last guy
@@tokisugar That video it's old.
@@blr_6458 Ik. it was just a joke.
The reason dust 2 is so stale, is because it's the most common map. If you have dust 2 in when searching for maps, there is a pretty big chance you'll get it.
It's not a bad map, it's just that eating the same dish, day in, day out, is awful.
Pizza is really good, I love it, but I will get sick of it eating it 3 days in a row.
WRONG. It's a bad map, period.
Ewa420 WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY ABOUT DUST
its just so, d u s t y
@@matteo.bassini5819 i will not.
My brain is overheating from this video
not much to over heat then
FSXgta Might wanna get a good heatsink... I suggest the Coolermaster 212 Evo.
TackStash779 Is it good?
+TackStash779 damn I use the tx3 evo with push pins will it do?
sounds like you use amd ha noob
A few days ago I had a game where we were getting raped as CTs on Nuke. By halftime it was 15-0 for the Ts and one of the enemies was spamming how bad we were for fucking up CT-side so much. On T-side we managed to tie 15-15. I was the weirdest game I have ever played in my 500 hours of CSGO
Nick879 It happens.
Nick879 that's unheard of XD
Ah yes, balance
oh thats a great word to use when youre getting beaten by an enemy team.
@@ThatButchBitch 2015 dude, that word was way overused
You just gave everyone who plays dust 2 only to keep just playing dust 2
SMaRk AND COBBLE! COBBLE BEST MAP 2K15!
but this is the best map since 1.6
+DxSProductionz 1,3*
***** Dude I love cobble its my favorite map
Nuke had it coming, since the first time i played that map i hated it with all the hate possible. NOW IT BURNS IN HELL OF MAPS :D. On another note i just select the ones from active duty and let the game random a map.
I hope valve will port de_prodigy to cs go. it was my favorite map ;'(
3 years man, sorry(
6 months man, sorry(
1 day man, sorry(
Guess not
4 years man, sorry.
I bloody love your way of thinking, you are a genius at what you do, and I hope you keep doing it to the high standard consistent in all of your videos. You set the whole thing up so clearly and make it seem easy to a simple viewer such as myself!
You separate from many other RUclipsrs. Your videos are getting much better with the time.
de_nuke2?
agent45267 de_newke
agent45267 de_nuketown ?
uC4nTseeMe 0_0
agent45267 de_Something?
de_licious
I didn't know about your channel until the whole Frankie thing...now you are my favorite informational CSGO channel.
don't completely agree don't completely disagree.
Ebumbaya a wut
Gauuur nett you ok?
dinoswarleaf anime killed his parents
Gauuur nett pissed m8? xD
Gauuur nett oh no someone likes something!
Was never disappointed from a video of you, keep up.
What is your opinion on perfectly symmetrical (except for a few similar props or textures)? Something like 2fort from Team Fortress 2 for example?
For all intents and purposes the map is perfectly balanced from a design point of view, why is it that competitive games aren't played on these kinds of maps?
Because unlike CTF the maps cannot be perfectly symmetrical. This is because the gameplay of CSGO is focused around attack and defense and not a mutual attacking goal on each side. Thus one part of the map has to be the trail to get to the area the CTs are defending while the other is that area. Symmetry in maps you cannot have that happen, unless you mean to imply you want bomb site a and b to be the exact same, in that case it just makes for boring gameplay.
7:14 perfectly balanced, mortar-style nade-spam gameplay
It's always nice to listen to your speech. To learn from your tutorials, to see how you make maps, just keep doin what ya doin :D.
The most annoying part of t side for me is when ct have awps, nades and all the gear they need, the ts have to pull of some ridiculous strat to win
SamBaker BF4 Heard of smoke and baiting shots?
+Martin Kleiven Good luck u need like 3 smokes just to get to secret 100% of the time
SamBaker BF4 That is the moment T side requires skill.
BrosephLUka I wasn't talking specifically about nuke.
Martin Kleiven Maybe not but why do you think the maps are ct sided. Because you wont have enough smokes to completely cover your push
Philip, I thoroughly enjoy your videos.
Some are funny and sarcastic and some are high quality rambling sorta scientific.
I think all the maps should be balanced to be near 50% win rate to both sides.. that's a lot funnier to play than unbalanced maps.. I HATED nuke, thank god it's gone..
RyuuuGaming It's not, it's going to be added not for this major the next one, like train...
RyuuuGaming no they souldn't 60 40 - 65 35 is completely ok
RyuuuGaming nova? or have you made it to MG yet?
Fa Mulan I like when maps are 60 -40 / 65-35.
RyuuuGaming Compare the difference between CSGO Nuke and CS1.6 Nuke, 1.6 nuke was not ct sided because it alot of more textures like boxes covering some CT players so that the terrorists have more space. For example in 1.6 there was a big box near window under heaven, ct's could not see anyone who ran into main by camping near the window because of the box. But they removed it in CSGO and that gave the ct's a big advantage because they can see who runs into main and who runs towards secret...
Interesting stats on overpass. It's always a fun map to watch because it's so unpredictable. Good video as always :D
This won't change the thoughts that Nuke is my favourite map
Me too!
@@drpootis866 1 hr ago nice me too btw
@@upq3 21 Hours ago ÑOiCE
Ew
@@AlfredTotingGG 2 months ago, ņīĉë
One of your best videos 3kilksphilip.
I love discussion of the meta. I don't agree with Thorin every time, and I enjoy your counter arguments towards his. Would love to hear you discus more on these topics in the future.
I have a question:
So, whenever I see replays of 360s or even pistol rounds, I always see the gun shoot, then the professional player gets a headshot, THEN the crosshair points at the opponent's head.
How does the game know where the player will put their crosshair BEFORE the crosshair is aimed at where the bullet landed? Is this a delay (which doesn't seem possible), or is the game guessing where you would shoot if you were to keep moving the mouse at a constant speed, or what?
SuperMaDBrothers Its just carbage 16tick demos
3kliksphilip hikos shot on get right on dust2 double doors is one instance this is very evident
+SuperMaDBrothers BLACK MAGIC
TrollMan MC you're not funny
SuperMaDBrothers
i tryed :'(
I love your videos so much I feel like I'm watching a good presentation on something actually interesting
5:18 "Then nuke is a plate full of potatoes. Yeees they're nice, but you need to leave room for everything else." Following this logic if there was a good Irish team on CS:GO they would probably win ever match on nuke. Those Irish love their potatoes.
i would LOVE to have an hour of you just talking about stuff like this
7:06 look at b tunnels and where the bomb ends up XD
i hate when people say the map is balanced because you switched sides. if you are t's and get kicked 12-3. when you switched sides there is a major psychological effect that reduces the effectiveness of the losing team, making them miss shots from the rage they have built up or the crumbling of teamwork as people blame loses on others rather than themselves. when you switch sides you only have 1-3 rounds to get back to a position where wining can happen(when losing 12-3 or something like that). and with the randomness of pistol rounds a comeback is harder then just starting on the opposite team.
Having mained Nuke for a long ass time, I don't find it as CT sided as everyone else. Even though it really is. When playing in a team on Nuke, we usually end 8-7 or 10-5, being ahead on T side.
Learning outside smokes and using spawns to your advantage helps a load on Nuke. Just never rush A, not even on ECO's.
+Dirk Niglet Depends what rank you're in. At LEM, I find it really CT sided, usually at least a 10-5 lead being ct and thats quite a bad scenario.
My opinion is that Nuke is entertaining to play exactly because you can turn the match around completely when you switch sides. So if you random queue it's often about winning some rounds as T and trying to keep angry russians in the mood to stick around for the latter half, and often you will draw or win even with a horrible start.
(and I'm saying that as one that very rarely get to start as CT on Nuke)
*3kliksphilips takes shots at Thorin by intentionally showing he's not subscribed to him*
Just *kidding*.
Drama
when i see a 3kliksphilip video in my sub box, my face lights up with joy on Christmas morning.
I'd like to add to the map balance discussion that your box map isnt balanced. cts have less one shot weapons, less power per bullet (atleast i think they do based on some of your statistic videos) so surely a simple one person on each side is imbalanced in at least some way due to the weapons available to the people. i think this plays a large part than we think in the balancing and discussion around balance. because realistically the teams perform different jobs. the ts side should be short straight paths with a fwe hiding spots towards what is then the more complex connection between the sites. because the cts should no be able to freely run between the sites. on a tdm, the ct side should theoretically have more cover allowing them to play a more defensive tdm style to match the weapons they have. i know that as a CT if i have to push into a bomb site to defuse i will always switch to an ak on the floor if i can becuase i am going to need that one shot potential.
I don't really have a point i just found it interesting.
Only you could call nuke a plate of potatoes.
The nuke part of the video hurts me knowing how nuke is now
02:05 the hell happened there?
i was wondering the same thing
really good video man! love how in depth you get
Pistol rounds aren't random. if anything they are the rounds that show the team with the best strat, skill and aim. In buys rounds the outcome of the round could be decided from one player not having enough money to buy nades. So I don't see Nuke as a problem in the map pool, especally since it was replaced by train, a map that most pro teams obviously dislike and is still just as CT sided as nuke.
William Gebhart Not sure if trolling
William Gebhart Strat, skill and aim... heres a good strat press adadadada and keep shooting. thats pretty much what pros do in pistol rounds and by this pistol rounds favor the T side more cause they are rushing and since there is no weapon innacuracy while moving with pistols Ts can just keep running around and be insanely accurate(glock and tec-9s), plus they dont have to bother about shortage of ammo compared to the usp and p2000 the cts are given. The biggest problem in this game would be the pistol balance not maps cause nuke has been out there for 15 years and they never changed it so why should they now?
Even in professional matches you can glock armor rape train or ups-s pop shot until you headshotted everyone. There no actual strategy and 50% skill.
+William Gebhart I'll agree that it shows the team with the best aim, but strategy and general skill at CS, there's none of that in pistol rounds
It's sad that you can't see the what all graphs were about at 3:04 beginning (the first ones)
Sorry Mate, but i think you've lost the plot on this point.
One thing that redditors (less experienced CS players) don't actually realize, in my opinion, is that (most of) the best maps NEED to be "CT sided" to the average pug game, if they're to be good. If most of these players had their way, they would have it so T sides could get half the rounds by simply walking up together and taking aim duels; maybe throwing 1 or 2 flashes, and a smoke. CS would be a TERRIBLE game if you could win a ton of T rounds by doing this against equally skilled opponents!
The whole point of map balance is such that a fully equipped CT side always has the inherent advantage when T's enter a site normally; what i mean by this is that if the T's lack info, have not manipulated the CT side at all, and simply choose to "enter" a random site based on a whim, then, in THIS case, the CT side should always win the majority of the time.
Why?
Because that's the point of the game. The T side needs to use map control, information, and various strategies and reads to manipulate CT sides so as to open up a weakness in the defense. ONLY THEN should the T side have favorable exchanges when they execute. The CT's, have to try their best to counter whatever the T side is trying to achieve by collecting as much information and preventing T map control without giving up any picks.
This cat and mouse game between the sides is what makes Counter Strike so good, tactical, and team-based.
THAT is what a TRULY balanced map achieves. It's not to do with how many rounds each team wins.
You might point out, "hey, that makes it way harder for Ts to get as many rounds as CTs!".
Well, frankly, yes, it does. But isn't it obvious that the whole economy of the game is designed to fit this model? CT's have a much more difficult economy to manage, meaning that they have to remain consistent and solid in all rounds (even winning whilst losing 3 or 4 players is not enough to maintain economic control). This often means that a good T half (6-7 rounds) might only require 2 or maybe 3 wins against fully equipped CT sides.
If every map were balanced STATISTICALLY, the game would lose so much of what it is. It would mean T sides could be consistently successful by simply calling "let's split a with 2 flashes" in freeze-time and just overwhelming the CTs, because the angles and design no longer inherently favor the defense. Remember, CTs have to go 2 v 5 in a rush! Does anyone really want that to be the case??
There is a reason Dust2 is called the 'pug-map' amongst any skilled player. Because it's the map where the puggy, less coordinated teams have a chance to upset tactically superior teams. Don't get me wrong, Dust2 is an amazing map, but its a rarity; an exception to the rule.
Let's take an almost perfect analogy; the most watched, played and followed sport in the world. Football. (the one where you actually use your feet).
How often is an attack on goal actually successful in football? One in ten? twenty? Who knows the actual statistic, but the point is, the defenders clearly have an inherent advantage in their activity; it's much easier to stop someone scoring a goal than to score one yourself.
But now imagine that everyone starting getting upset about this, claiming that it's too hard for strikers, and that it's unfair that so few attacks should be successful.
So now let's think, that they changes the rules in response. Now, you can only have 3 defenders at a time, or whatever, so that 50 percent of the attacks ended up as a goal.
That would COMPLETELY RUIN THE SPORT! The whole point of attacking is trying to pass the ball around, make space, draw out defenders, so as to OPEN UP a weakness. That is what makes the sport so exciting and brilliant!
One final point.
You say in your video that on maps like Nuke that T's usually only get rounds due to mistakes by the CT side. But this could be said about anything! 'Oh well the T's only won because the CT side didn't head-shot them all when they came in.' 'oh well messi only scored then because the left back was out of position'. 'Oh, Federer only won Wimbledon because his opponent missed his lob'.
Sports are comprised of imperfect humans; attacking is just as much about drawing out mistakes from the defenders as it is about 'perfect play'.
SunBreaker Films soccer is fucking boring to watch
Soccer is boring to watch though
So in other words, if you wanted a T sided map, you have to play Hostage, where the defenders and attackers are flipped
Old nuke was so cursed
I just want Season in the competitive pool and Inferno is the weakest link.
***** YAY! People who agree with meh!
Although that said I'm really not much of a season fan.
Inferno is the fucking worst.
bslapshot Inferno is pretty rough. Attacking B is intense, and defending A is tough. However, I personally still like it. There's some cool strategies that come from this map, it's formulaic, maybe, but there's enough strategies and tricks to keep things interesting. I would love to have Season in the map pool.
I want old season :(
Happy 1 Year Birthday for this video!
Great video as always, Philip! But I hear something... different. Why does your voice sound a bit more echo-y?
wot u doin hur m8
Oh Jayson! I didn't know you were still into CS:GO after you got banned.
***** I'm a legit mge now sooo stfu
JaysonLikesGaming Oh I'm sorry that I got you mad, Jayson, it's just too funny not to mention.
+JaysonLikesGaming acting like mge is good lmao.
This is good stuff, especially since it pretty much confirms that I should probably shoot for 3 maps for a game alpha or beta.
One attacker sided, one defender sided, and one perfectly balanced map.
"When a sniper kills you from half a mile away" That's what they're supposed to do...
Dies that require skill? No it doest, specially in ca where u can know from where the enemy wil come
@@fotina45 it does. you need to focus, and have quick response to click
@@fotina45 requires more skill than I have
Overpass is my favorite map because of the cool layout and the balance
I don't mind maps that are somewhat sided (Mirage, Cache, Overpass). But maps like Nuke and Inferno are just too sided. A bad team can beat a good team on Nuke simply because they start T side, get a few rounds and then just easily win out on CT side. Half of playing Nuke is shooting terrorists in the feet before they can see you.
BTW your chess analogy is spot on.
Joe Fisher Hej gohl!
Cache is actually one of the most 50/50 maps in the map pool atm
+AxeliNoCSGO It's VERY slightly CT sided due to easy rotations, like around 52-48 I'd say.
Das Erste Opfer
Stfu Robert
I watched a 20 minute ad for you.
you're welcome for the maybe a thousandth of a cent.
Nuke is my favorite map it's so much more fun to play than dust 2 even if your losing
OtterGaming Is this in a silver game?
+TheCatOfWar | CS:GO Stuff Probably
TheCatOfWar | CS:GO Stuff nova game
+OtterGaming OMG THE DIFFERENCE :O
Lol but seriously, novas are just silvers with better aim (no offence :P)
Soot Games xD I know, know im nova 3 doe
the most British analogy of nuke there.
"If nuke was a roast, it would be a plate of potatoes".
Olofpass is definitely not balanced evenly lol
Nuke is easier to play CT side, but the fun - at least for me - comes in when its down to a 2v2 or 1v1 (maybe even 3v3) because of the fast rotations through many different paths. It allows you to outsmart your opponent and keep you on your toes from all angles.
I notice in the stats that most maps are CT-sided. Some may have to do with the map layout, yes, but another thing that I noticed is they are all defuse maps.
In these types of games, even on a perfectly balanced map CTs have and advantage right off the bat, because they have a passive objective, which is preventing the bomb from being planted; while Ts have an active objective of having to plant the bomb. Only when (and if) the bomb is planted the roles are inverted, and the CTs have an active objective of defusing the bomb, and Ts have to defend it. To illustrate what i'm trying to say, suppose both teams do absolutely nothing. Who wins? CTs of course, because the Ts failed their objective of planting the bomb. This scenario obviously changes when the bomb is planted, where if nothing is done from there the bomb detonates and Ts win. But overall, the CTs only have to hide killing whoever enters a certain room, and if the bomb carrier is down (just 1 player) then their objective is halfway done, because all they have to do is defend it from being picked up again, so everyone flocks to the where the bomb has dropped and the round is pretty much settled.
The total opposite is in hostage rescue maps, where CTs have the active objective, and Ts a passive one, but there are none of those in the competitive map pool (I don't know why, anyone care to tell me?). I would like to see stats on these types of maps (like assault, office, etc.), because I bet they are more T-sided in general.
One last thing. It's true that teams switch at half time, but "halftime" is not exactly at the half of the rounds played, I'ts a fixed 15 rounds of a total possible of 30. The truth is, most games don't reach 30 rounds, so the team that starts as CT has the advantage of playing 15 rounds as CT. I think it would make more sense balance-wise to switch at every round, to make it an equal amount of rounds being played on either side. Then again, it's just an idea and I haven't put much thought into it.
Hostage maps are far too T-sided to be played professionally. Pretty sure the economy would need a full rebalance to make it acceptable.
eating pizza.
watching philip newest video.
best part of my day.
How did overpass go from being very well balanced to ct sided?
The update that changed the thing.
John Smith How was it changed?
Pan Z The changed it by doing the thing.
John Smith Thanks so much. SO helpful
Pan Z No problem. I'm glad I could help.
3kliksphilip is the reason I start mapping in source, with his excellent easy to learn tutorials, I don´t enjoy CS but I do watch his videos because they always have something interesting.
Martin Landart because u fucking bad?
I like maps that are slightly unbalanced, like Inferno
I salute you and your opinion which I share, but also hold confidence that in time Valve will balance all maps
Yes Dust2 is balanced but it's boring aswell.. Only rifle gameplay on way too simple corridors, no interessting positions..
Dear Philip, As i was watching you play with 9 other youtubers on the video Manntrouse posted on the 45:19 minute u can see a bucket flying by is it possible that if Pala would be more to the left and low on health would it kill him?
6:56 "Even a mere porn can make a big difference."
I noticed
*pawn
I didn’t know you hated old nuke so much
Am i the only one who thinks a side nuke would be a lot better if they took out the rafters completely. Its a hassle having to check them and makes a site very ct sided.
DesertEagle720 No, you're not. Have a cookie :3
TheCatOfWar | CS:GO Stuff the cookie was good. here, have a pizza.
DesertEagle720 FNAF flashbacks intensify xD
+DesertEagle720 I believe they should still keep rafter in when they balance Nuke. The thing I like about A site is that while the hut and squeaky entrance are the fastest, they are also dangerous whereas entering through heaven or mini is slower but a lot safer.
+Baynard Baggs I honestly don't care. Balance has never been an issue since I play the maps that have unique layouts and look good, like Vertigo and Office. The rafters on Nuke look cool as hell and make the map more vertical, and I like the vertical style.
Damn I like listening to this guy
revisit in 2019?
Philip I have a nice idea for a future video. Could you talk about aspects that relate to reaction time in CSGO? For example, talk about latency, input lag of peripherals(mouse, keyboard, and monitor), how many milliseconds you can see a ct crossing mid doors in dust 2 for, aiming at corners(and how far to aim if you use optimal reaction time), etc.
Basically, a video about latency, input lag, and reaction time :)
FOOD ANALOGY
I have to keep this in mind as I'm currently in the process of making a map of my own!
Nuke is my favourite map(don't ask me why) and I've gone 15-0 on t before. this was in gn3 and it doesn't seem as ct sided as it does in pro games.
Why is nuke your favourite map?
Pretty graphics
De Lord Potato it was my favorite till it was destroyed
Right when he mentioned the potato analogy I was eating dinner with a plate half covered with a baked potato
I love Nuke, its the best map in the game. If they change it, I'm going to be so mad. Sure it's unbalanced, but if you are better on t side, then you can do pretty well. Usually, it's 7-8 in my games, if I start on T side. CT side, its 11-4 or 13-2. It is balanced, just in a completely different way than in cs. You need to play a different way to do well on t side nuke.
ThuQ Ninja What rank are you? Lower ranked games play out differently than higher ranked.
Martin Kleiven Im DMG currently on my main account, and I have not been able to play it on ESEA, which has been where I have been for the past month and a half, and where I have gotten better. But my main and smurf are both DMG :P.
Yeah, that's your games. The problem might not exist there, but id does in the pro scene etc.
At the very least they need to remove the path you need to take from spawn to get to bombsites, Phillip explained in another video that the time walking on that path is a total of 2 minutes in a full mm game, it wastes time in rounds that is crucial at a pro level. The map isn't good also because it doesn't follow the dust 2 sort of format.
ThuQ Ninja Thing is. It is really common for nuke CT to be 12-3. It is not fun to play(especially when you start on T) nor watch. Yeah 7-8 on T is possible if your opponents dont know what to do. Problem comes when you are forced play against solid opponents, and get destroyed round after round on T, without any ability to do something about it. In pro matches on nuke, you could watch the first three rounds and then go have a snack, till half time.
Under rated video. Amazing content.
I agree, which is why I disagree with Valve's decision to reinstate the new Nuke for competitive over Inferno. I can't wait for Inferno to come back
When inferno comes back, dust 2 will go! Do you really want that?
SnakeMedia I'm pretty sure the entire CS:GO community would collapse if they discontinued Dust 2 from active duty...
+Cartoons Dude train maybe?
3:50 Do these data contain the same quantity of matches played, or do some maps (like Dust 2) have data with more matches played on it? More data on some maps, WILL skew with the remaining data, and how more matches are played, how farther to a 50% it will reach.
3kiliks u so fab
7:07 DID YOU SEE THE BOMB FLY UP ON TOP OF THE BOXES?!?!
I HAVE NEVER SEEN THAT HAPPEN BEFORE IN ALL OF MY YEARS OF PLAYING COUNTER STRIKE
lmao that's actually cool
if Dust II was a meal, it would be a ham and cheese sandwich made at home.
mediocre, bland, no personality.
Teemo #TeamUko yet still, good enough no matter what
Back when I used to play competitively (source) nuke used to be my favorite map, especially on T. I was pretty good, especially for the era, but my playstyle used to rest very heavily on quick reactions and exceptional aim (especially close-mid distance). My gamesense, mostly tracking enemies (because I could often get the shot anyway), and especially consistency (high mouse sens) were my weak side. So as nuke I could often pull off very aggressive picks from a strongly disadvantaged position which would single handedly win the round. It didn't matter if half the rounds I was inconsistent because they would be lost rounds anyway. My gamesense didn't matter as much at all, after I got the picks the rest of my team could lock down the round. Dust2 just felt overplayed and generally bland. The map might be well balanced but that means it never had any character to me. I wish dust2-only teams weren't so popular in the day but its nice to see that's improving a little these days, even if I am no longer playing.
de_dust2 sucks!
Waiting for hate comments
GAME OVER UH, YOU CANT HATE DUST 2!!! *throws hate at you*
+GAME OVER Only Dust2 does suck.
+Matthew V gg
I agree
dust 2 is a great map.
When I played nuke when it was in active duty, a lot of people would argue that it was fine we started on t because we will eventually get to play ct, even if they won every round we could still draw, by the time your done losing continuously, even if you were as good as the other team when they played morale is as low as the waiting time on dust 2, whereas the other team are as high and elated as Aztecs waiting time
I love playing on Militia because every T side wins actually have a meaning
And i love running into house and yelling "PAPAS HOME!"
I agree! A potatoes are the best, but if you don't leave room for say salt, or some type of meat they just aren't worth the time it takes to eat them! Thank you Philip, finally I can explain this to people properly!
There are many signs that there will be a Nuke remake soon. Im so exited about it.
If there is a tournament next year that's gonna be on april fools day, they need to add; Militia, Office and a bunch of other not active map pool maps there so we can see the pro strats for the map.
At 7:07 the killed T seems to drop the bomb onto the crates due to being killed. Is this (still) an issue? At least it wouldn't require trolling to deny bomb plants.
Wow, this is actually so interesting i might get into Hammer map design and try to make balanced games.
The hardest part would probably be finding people to test it.
I have almost never solo queued in matchmaking. I almost always play with 3-5 friends and Nuke is our favorite map because we can almost always have an advantage on either side due to teamwork and communication and learning how everyone plays.
I loved nuke and often played it as the only map in my que. Now replaced by Mirage. I think CT sided maps like old Nuke were good for the game. At the same time I think it needed a rework but I didn't like how they changed it.
Nuke wouldnt of been so bad if it was 10-5 average CT instead of 12-3. That said at lower ranks it helped teach me how to hold corners and improved my CT side. Because you're expected to win CT and you know how many you're suppose to win. It was really good for teaching a new player how to play CT. Since you learned patience and holding corners. As far as competitive play I understand why it was removed and changed.
Time to binge watch all of these videos. Global here I come.
I loved nuke before they reworked it. The T-side was a challenge. And it was fun. Picking people of outside, or on ramp, or in main. Leavning the enemy team in a situation were they have to figure out if i'll use it to push or fake. Like. It had a lot of mindgames. And once you mastered it the T-side was no longer like "running into a brick wall".
1:36- that's why flashbangs and smokes exist.
What would be interesting would be a one way access for Terrorist to A site heaven. This could turn the tables drastically as CT's who will still access heaven quicker will have to watch for a peak at a similar level inaccessible for them (unless allowed by a boost or something). This would definitely encourage more A site pushes.
Note: T-spot Heaven on A-site would be placed on the same side as CT Heaven meaning it will take time to get too and still be vulnerable to CT members already hiding along the rails in A-site.
Just an interesting thought I had while watching this video again.
Please start the SDK Series again, I really liked it and that's what helped me in becoming a serious mapper.
My favorite is mirage because I see it as a real tactical map I like inferno because you can do so much on t side like a double fake and I like overpass because it is an interesting map imo
yeah the map pool should be balanced and have a variety of maps that can pull out very different play styles, but thank you for making this video, since actual map balance is important no matter what kind of map it is and should still find ways to be the best map it can be by the things that make it unique
I actaully think some maps should be unbalanced.I love Nuke,its my most favourite map.The best thing on it is fact the map is not balanced.If you win on t side,it shows your skills and tactics,and its a great feeling overall.Also,on nuke you can see most exciting comebacks.Map fits me perfectly,i love playing it on both ct and t side,but prefer t side because of bigger freedom on map.I never lost a nuke game because i started on t side,i lost because we played worse(no matter on which side we started),or i won because we were able to take some rounds on t side(usually atleast 5 or 6 rounds)and then won ct,or because we destroyed them on both sides
I'm Gold Nova Master so not a high rank but not a noob either but I personally love Nuke, and find that atleast on my elo rushing a bomb site isn't that hard. You are right maybe A but B over secret? A few go door, 1 goes window and 1 or 2 go vents. there is smaller place / corners to B than to A because A has heaven which gives it 6 more spots to stay.
Therefore I think bombspot A is balanced but B is indeed way more balanced. So now the question is, did Valve take the results from B Plants or from A plants? Probably all plants together but they should make a survey which bombsite is more balanced and easier to take as T
Love your videos :) Am excited about the new de_nuke!
I feel like the reasons described in the video, explain why people describe dust2 as an aim map, because its more about the skill about the individual player than the actual map it's self