Blizzard's Healing Philosophy
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- The Latest War Within Interview with Wowhead touches on defensive abilities and healing philosophy for the War Within and their response to questions about Defensive Power Creep and healer strength!
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Original Video: • The REAL Problem with ...
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Quick prediction: I think things will probably feel "fine" starting the new expac but without defensive pruning the same old DF healing problems will return.
Blizzard really be like "we understand whats the problem, but we are too lazy and useless to change anything"
Blizzard just doesnt have the guts to make a big turn and remove all selfhealing from the game and atleast remove half of all def cds in the game.I see this as the only way to fix healing in M+/Raid and even PvP
With only a matter of weeks until the new expansion nothing is going to change and we're in for another expansion just like dragonflight for healers. Blizzard always do this and then say it's something we'll adjust but it's too big to do during an expansion and then the next expansion comes and they've not done anything... V frustrating.
Blizzard like: "you think you want less defensives, but you don't, trust me bro"
I do agree raids should be less about DPS defensives but we need to be careful if we start building m+ content solely around healing output. If DPS can get through encounters without timing their defensives the content will be boring. It will also lack a sense of accomplishment for them in higher key levels. Essentially for DPS there wouldn’t be a skill cap difference from a 10 to a 20. M+ skill cap has been about DPS maintaining output while rotating defensives. That being said, I think this conversation needs to be more specifically about rot healing in raids and healer through put. Healers need to feel valuable too and healing raids has been incredibly boring since shadow lands.
Single handedly I've never been more stressed and exhausted from healing in 20 years of healing than I have been in Mythic+ this expansion. When the boss big damage event happens, if you mess up 1 gcd, someone dies. It's been exhausting.
Same, and my group isn't even doing top 1% keys. We mostly tinker around in 10-12s and might creep into 13s or 14s before WW launches but we're taking S4 with stride since there's "nothing new". However I'm in the same boat, I've been a healer main since '06 and in most cases even with just run of the mill trash packs I don't feel like I can even scratch my eye or itch my face without someone or the entire group dying as a result. It's truly exhausting. It isn't what healing is about and I could write volumes on why but I'll just say... we've taken one of our DPS who isn't a pumper and made them heal so I can go DPS and pump because to be honest, the healer's role only matters in today's modern Warcraft so much as you can just spam your biggest CDs or ramps or combos one after the other and in between you're nothing but a mediocre DPSer because you can't fill health bars otherwise without great effort.
I never thought after almost two decades of being a healer main that I'd find it so boring, uninspiring, and to be honest, tedious beyond all measure. Congrats Blizz, the M+ pug community certainly sees the results of you putting your head in the sand. I'm insulated from this kind of thing by virtue of having a dedicated M+ group but I feel so bad for all the pugs out there waiting literal hours at times just to have someone who dares try to heal them. Without near perfect execution of defensives, stops, interrupts, and what have you as Jak pointed out, the struggle can be so real for healer's to simply keep people alive with the tools and lack thereof that Blizzard has been giving them for awhile now.
For argument's sake I've mained or did high end content on literally every healer at some point in DF except for Rdruid.
This happened last night while we were pushing. DPS was low-ish but should have been ok, but I was dispelling the tank and before I could get a heal off on the DPS (they were out of CDs) a damage event went out and BAM, they were dead. I should have healed them first then dispelled. But I chose to get the tank first the DPS died. It sucks.
not paying for that shit.... hope they fix it because me and many more miss wow
I don’t mind healing nerfs, as long as I’m still needed as a healer. All throughout Dragonflight, tanks did not need me to sustain them, and DPS lived or died depending on whether they hit a cooldown, not whether I did.
Spot on with this.
That depends on the difficulty level and skill of the player but I think we can agree that it was true way more than it should have been
I sometimes get confused if we are even playing the same game. In season 2 my face was literally melting off with the amount of damage i was passively taking. Maybe just boomkin diff though
This. I don’t really feel like I have any agency to carry a team or make up for anyone’s mistakes. At the same time though, damage comes out so quickly if I’m distracted for even a global people die. It feels like success can never be attributed to the healer but failure absolutely can. It’s terrible.
This is pretty much why I quit playing. Perfect take on the problem. When everyone can heal why bring heals?
As a full time healer since legion, I couldn’t agree more with jack. I feel redundant in a group. 90% of keys is just damage output and trickle heals with 10% is healthbars going from full to 1% in seconds. Found it very boring.
Also tanks survival is insane and needs to be looked into.
After pandaria they slowly start to make every tank feel more and more like a blood dk constantly increasing their self healing and absorbs while dk started healing even more and becoming more squish compared to the others. Today most tanks who use their kit barely need a healer.
@@alexandrecarlosbr and out heal healers, which is disgusting given that I can't take one hit from a dungeon/raid mob and even if I'm living my best healerdps life will never compare to a real dps. please stop giving our job to other roles.
Try hpal, takes you 20 casts to top someone from 50%.
@@alexandrecarlosbr in shadowland the tank have to quit all the time becouse die at auto atack of mobbs...
@@devouringfamine2427 Even healers weren't able to heal tanks In the beginning of shadowlands, the damage was just brutal, it was the kite meta for tanks, just get aggro while stunning them or using strong defensives and then kite the mobs while using ranged skills or just going in for a few moments and kiting again because their auto attacks did hit like a truck but it was lessened as the expansion progressed.
Over time, I've realised the fights that I like healing are the ones with slower intakes of damage where you have some time to top people up and it's not just blasting healing on the whole party to keep topping them up every second to stop them from getting one shot by the next burst of damage. Healing Chromie in Iridikron was great. You know when she'll take damage. You get like 30 seconds to heal her back up so you can take your time and just splash heals onto her instead of stressing and blasting her to 100% instantly. Granyth in NO in the current season is the same. There's a predictable spike of damage and you have a bit of time to heal it back up afterwards before the next one.
huge agree
Ur right but I think the chromie examples much better because granyth just becomes the whole can a dps live 1 instance of constant burst or else it's a joke anyways
I agree also, tbh my favourite boss is HOI third boss, where you actually neee to manage your heal cds, healths are going down steadily and its so rewarding to actually heal through that
Bruh, i just don't want it to feel like my DPS players (especially in pugs) gets 100-0% in 0.1second whilst 30 affixes spawns I have to deal with on top of boss aoe damage that takes 25% of their HP per 0.1 second and if I fuck up once, i get the blame, i get every shit thrown at me for not healing it when a 'pro' player has no problems with it.
Either make affixes that specifically targets X role or stop making it a healer job 99.9% of the time, this might not be an affix post, but it sure as fuck feels like this so much this expansion.
I love the final boss of AZ when the Cristal’s overlap with the aoe xD gl healing that
All affixes affect a healer whereas not all affixes affect DPS or Tanks.
Even things like Sanguine makes fights longer so you have to heal more and if people stand in it then you have to heal that. Bolstering means things hit harder so you have to heal it. Spiteful hits DPS and the healer so you have to move out of mechanics, heal the person who got hit and CC. Storming and Volcanic all hit players so you have to heal it up. I'd give a million to anyone who can name a current affix that doesn't affect a healer
@@shehran6936 Exactly my point, seems like healers usually get the 'shit stick' in most expansions (SL,DF mostly) even when they buffed the fuck out of peoples HP it still felt like crap especially as an hpal player, until they reworked and got them to a point of actual playability, now they're nerfed to the ground and it doesn't look better in WTT... Idk what they're doing, but it's definitely not the correct way for most healer specs, some eating REAL good whilst others have to wait for someone who knows about X spec to do something about it, which can take months if not a year..
exactly why I don't PUG M+ anymore - plus those same complaining players won't use anything to help themselves, no food, pots, runes...
A classic case of blizzard saying one thing, but all design coming out shows the other thing
How I've felt about most of the TWW news tbh.
but hey! Frost DK is looking sick, so we can just ignore all the glaring problems that we always talk about year after year :3
I used to play multiple healers. This time only going to do 1 it’s not fun for me any more. Most pugs don’t use defensive. Hard to make them use it as when they die it’s always healers fault
U are rightfully disapointed because healing is not fun, when ur performace depends so heavily on what the other people do, to a point where u can´t save a player if u don´t predict the damage before it even hits, that´s just frustrating.
Thanks man
After Blizzard's comments I'm *more* worried about healing next expansion.
Everything they say sounds like they're completely oblivious to how healing feels right now.
I agree.. but then the dark side of me thinks some jackwagon @ microsoft decided they'd like to get rid of healers so there's no more problem. I hate always feeling like I'm low man on the totem pole and on my way out the door if i can't juggle every affix, change my build back n forth dependent on the week and can only have my favorite heals if i do damage. I enjoy doing some actual damage but i am tired of being the punching bag when i can't hit every single thing the whole 35 minutes spent dispel dispel, heal to full heal to full dispel enemy and left 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. 8. yay they're topped oooof!!! oh noes.. start again.. dispel force, dispel, watch your feet
"prist!! hey heler!!!" Do you know what dispel is? " "Hey i'll pi hunter you pi warrior" then fails to pi anyone but himself lmao.. stop telling me what to do! I've been doing it for 20+ years.. or how bout the guy who didn't know how to kick .. laying on floor dead.. hollering "res!??" during combat?
Oy Vey!
I don't think Leech is an actual problem.
It is, they are leeching our patience
obv it was a classic corporate response where a person responsable for interview just asked some random worker what the fuss about all of sudden
If anything, I think leech would be an even more interesting stat in a world where health pools move slower
Right? Not even close
so they want to make people want to play healer by making the encounters so dangerous that DPS need more self heals because the healers can't keep up. I see...
While at the same time healers are expected to do DPS.
I use to love healing. Now I only play it because unless my DPS is meta I can't get an invite.
I really dislike that the way they worded this means they only think defensive use/not-use is only an issue for high end content. In low end content it is still an issue and makes the lower keys much harder to heal than they need to be.
Nerfing healing in any way is not going to make it better, it is just going to make it even less worth playing and more annoying to deal with at low end. I could queue up for a +2 right now on something that does not overgear it and watch the random pug healer struggle the entire run. Even using defensives in a +2, I will still constantly die because the healer is struggling so much and that is the "entry level".
I gave up entirely on healing because of how bad it has been all DF.
I kinda agree with you but what do you mean by "entry level" ? +2 is not an "entry level" anymore, that's what normal and heroic mode are here for now
@valentin6635 yeah previously entry level was basically 0-10 but now that a 0 is a 10 roughly it forces players to do more than they're used to/comfortable with and thus why 2-4 range can be a shitshow with 0 mechanics done. Just did a couple of 2-3s for weekly quest and 3 of the 4 dungeons there was a dps at like 30k dps in bosses and one healer did 20k hps and 0 dps. I get it they're "learning" but nowadays if a dps if these are the people in 500 ilvl gear it's astonishing
@@valentin6635 The difficulty gap between heroic and m0, and between m0 and +2 is gigantic... for a low end player is way too difficult
Heres the problem. Most DPS are simply not good at this game for those of us that dont push high end content, meaning they wont time defensives properly AND we wont be able to top them off. Healing is the only class in the game where if the other play bad your job becomes harder. If a healer plays bad no one else has a harder job you just all die and the healer gets the blame.
If you want to give classes more survivability in solo content like delves then bring back first aid and specifically balance it around delves.
I miss when using a defensive correctly was an expression of skill and not required. They should stop balancing the game based on optimal play, far from everyone is using the defensive they factor in and it’s frustrating for everyone involved with cleaning up the aftermath or who lose their run/pull because of the npcs in the party.
Eventually, high end groups will scale the content, or have mythic scaling available,to where it can and should be required.
100%. Specs dont need 4 different buttons for defensives
The worst thing? Every rework during DF added more defensive to the reworked class, i still cant understand how is mage one of the tankiest nowadays when the class design was always high mobility but glass cannon.
@@AutomaticJakyes, they do.
@@kaliyvga1426 no, they need a healer.
@@Surethien learn to play
My tipp . Remove the self heal from all classes . And reduce the deff cds only one a tank get 2 deff cds . Let the Healer heal and remove the dds talents by healer speccs
Jack explained every major problem with healing and I 100% agreed with em all. But there are more minor problem s existing for a long time as well. 5.5m health bars and you can crit for 700k ish heals tops. Not even possible with aoe healing too. Also blizzard says ignore tank healing 75% of the time they dont need your heals. But most of the pug tanks pulls 3 packs at least while not using their cooldowns properly. You as a healer, forced to use every single Cd on those pulls. Ofc there wont be any interupts and cc's on those chaotic pulls. Result is always same. " HEAL?". I dont know how other healer feel about it but those moment makes me feel " why am I doing this. This is not fun. Dealing with toxic ppl Who doesnt even know whats going on." you are being punished by being a veteran healer Who plays for a loooong time, Who knows almost every monster ability - mwchanic etc. I mean... When some dps streamer yells" where are all those healers " while forming a m+ group on lfg, look no further. They are all pissed.
I stopped healing in DF and I dont think ill be back soon..
Me too :-\
Does anyone remember what healing felt like in early Warlords of Draenor (WoD)? Health bars were very big compared to healer output, and slow damage was a big component of the first raid, Highmaul. Also, they had just done a big game-wide ability pruning, so DPS classes didn't have as many defensives/self-healing.
This is the direction I'd like to see WoW healing go in.
One downside to this style of healing is that Healers become less and less necessary the less powerful they become. Every decrease in power level for healers needs to be coupled with a decrease in defensives, otherwise we will see fewer and fewer healers in M+ and raid.
Thanks for calling them out on the inaction! What Blizzard said makes sense and it's good that they and the community are in agreement. But then going on to NOT do anything with 2 months of beta left to go... yikes. There is a reason that so many healers have stopped pugging during DF, and they aren't going to start again if TWW doesn't change anything. Weird as it sounds, I think player skill makes too much difference to the outcome of a dungeon, and that's what makes for a terrible terrible pugging experience. We need to bring the skill floor (and maybe ceiling too) down a bit to reign in the gulf between good and bad groups, and yeah, pruning defensives, nerfing healing, but also toning down the burst damage so we don't get such spiky damage does actually make sense as a way to do that.
There is one thing I am worried about this upcoming expansion. If they increased healthpools but not really changed the burstiness of damage then I feel like we will start encountering situations (mainly in keys) where healers may just feel too weak. We already saw the massive drop in healer interest season 1 of DF when healing was tough but I think this current wack a mole style of healing has just added a ton of stress to healers. Theres alot of times where someone drops to like 20% from 1 ability and you have about 2 seconds to top them off before they get hit by another ability that will also do more than half their health. With the current healing, its stressful but at least we have the power to do that but if they are keeping damage out put the same but removing our ability to top people up quickly then some situations might feel hopeless to heal through which in term would make the classes with many defensives even more stronger than they currently are since they could more easily live those situations where healers may struggle.
Yep. Less healer stress = more healers. Same goes for tanks for that matter.
The spikyness will always benefit healers that can cast during movement or have many powerful instant heals. If you have move during a tight time window, it happens very fast, that someone just dies from the next dot tick or something.
Blizzard has to do at least one of some possible thing: streamline healers and then Balance healing overall OR remove affixes and Movement requierements OR change the speed in which healing needs to be delivered.
@@erictyler3259but currently tanks have the most responsibilities with stops and all and there's infinite tanks to healers, I halfway think it's just the players that like responsibilities are going to play the role that requires it, which is tank currently. If I play dps or healer I fall asleep
True, I mained a hpally and I played ret earlier today and it was so relaxing compared to healing even with using defensive, interupting and even off healing s bit lol
Ion talks like a politician. Says a bunch of nonsense to you and at the end of it all you just walk away scratching your head.
It's PR, the propaganda of plutocracy.
have they never pugged a s ahealer. players do not use defense abilities...
looks like more healers are swapping dps... this interview just shares how little they want to fix the core healing problems...
blizzard acknowledges what community been saying for quite some time now... they have zero planned changes... show us change or were not playing healer...
im seriously thinking they just want to ship a retail box instead of fixing the games problems and there just not enough time to make deadline...
The take a breath and people die is what I think mentally broke me in season 1 healing. I love healing but been falling out of love with it sense legion.
Dungeon needs ro be 20 or 25 min long at most. And you need to stay focus this entire time, there are quests if you want to rest your mind.
Blizzard has a serious inability to steer the ship. It's just bouncing from 1 ice berg to the next.
These guys should do some m0 pug healing where hardly anybody does anything right. It's been rough this season. I am exhausted after healing m0 on my alts and i don't feel i could handle affixes on top.
Sorry to be an asshole but m0 healing is incredibly easy, I do it with 465 ilvl on a disco. And im obly 3k on my main, I'm an average player. You just need to train à bit.
Do you think the game should be balanced around people with the hole in their head?
@@kaliyvga1426you mean the people who pay 90% of the subscriptions? Yes I think the game should be balanced around the people who are the reason it exists, because if wow depended on the subscriptions of world first raiders and m+ people with the 1% title you would get a new expansion once a decade if wow was able to survive at all.
Give me back healing like in TBC. Triage but with spikes where I need to go hard. It’s no fun going hard the ENTIRE dungeon and getting punished for DPS not pressure their defensive.
I think it's also a little concerning to me that they don't seem to notice or acknowledge the gap that their defensive balance creates between different classes. If a class like Mage has 5 buttons they can push so the encounter design team decides to balance around someone having a defensive up for every mechanic, what happens to a class that has 1 or 2 defensives? Or a class with defensives on very long CDs? This defensive creep affects healers negatively, overcomplicates the game as a whole, and also pushes out classes that are squishier (which, unfortunately, also often overlaps with classes that don't offer as much group utility. So a double whammy of bad.)
Infinite scaling m+ balancing is literally impossible. Raiding needs to be its own thing and then they can finally try to balance the game properly.
You're absolutly right! Healing in DF feels bad and the decrease in healer's population just proves that!
And adding more defensive to classes just shows how they are giving a f about it
decrease becouse its hard for them...
@@devouringfamine2427 I don’t think it’s only because it’s harder… If DPS has a lot of Defensives, it means survaviability is less in the healers hands, and that sucks because it also means we get blamed even when its not really our fault. Also, healing spike heals is not fun.
@@cafecombatatinha It's up to you if it affects you if they blame you... automatically when they tell me something I see if they should use their defensive or if they are doing good dps. If they don't, you say so and look for another group as a healer, you immediately have a new group for the stones.
@@cafecombatatinha we gonna blame healers either way, its always the healers fault no matter what through history of wow
My only issues with healing is those DPS that REFUSE to eat-buff/ vial buff, bring pots... and rely completely on heals then complain when they die... I quit healing M+ - it's just not fun - (I will for guildies only at this point and on Discord).
I was a career healer until Warlords. I walked away. I have tried it every expansion. I have healed in games since 1999. I moved to tank.
I was tired of just feeling exhausted, stressed, and getting blamed for idiocy.
If I look at healing in FFXIV and then in WOW. I can heal and have a good time in FFXIV its high energy not really stressful bur it can be in pinch moments.
If I heal in WOW its just painful. If I make a single misstep people die, entire runs are lost.
Healers have too many damned buttons to worry about, too many mechanics to focus on, and too many varying types of mobs.
Hmm… to be fair healing in WoW is quite stressful enough and by that message I have a feeling that I will be even worse now. By stressful I mean that ppl die to 1 or 2 hits bcuz of burst dmg income within 1 second which is impossible to heal. Yet… there are also tanks with their massive health bars either not taking any dmg nowadays or fightning for their lives being healed every second by healers and with luck they will stay alive… I start to think of moving to DPS cuz healing feels really weak….healer DMG sux and healing is pointless at this stage so what else left?
I personally don’t enjoy casually healing the tank/group while trying to dps. It doesn’t feel like playing a healer, it’s more like playing a bad dps 😂
Thank you! And in a lot of PUGs, I'm too busy healing up the non-interupts and or not doing mechanics.
The idea is that you heal and in downtime you do dps if you have a group that plays well you don't have to heal them all the time if they play badly you won't be able to do dps and that's not your fault it's theirs
@@ThatGuyBill1985 Absolutely! I feel that.
YASSSS!!! My holy priest sighs when I sign in
Random thought, What do you think it would do to the M+ community if players were incentivized based on their M+ performance which would impact their IO? Such as meeting a min requirements of interupts/stops, using defenses on major dmg checks, or other utility spells such as tiger lust on another player to free them from roots, etc, but at the end of the run the more thing's you contrubited to the more total points you were elligible for at the completion of the key lvl?
Then, as you are trained to be more proactive in using your abilities, players at the higher level pug groups would have a better idea of which players would be better for their teams vs those players who only push their dps buttons and complain how bad the tank or healer are. I'm ok with ppl having multiple defensives IF they use them. In my experience almost never do I see anyone using their defenses with exception of DK's DH and sometimes a hunter will turtle. Related to that, Blizz could improve the visual for specs so it's more obvious when and what defenses are being used by classes so healers don't waste cds or gcds trying to heal players. Finally, I kinda wish we had another ping button that indicates to the party when to use a defensive for a mechanic in the dungeon.
awesome video. the only thing i find fun in WoW is healing, and all of dragonflight healing was so massively unfun that i kept on rolling alts just to have a week of easy gear prog on a new spec, then quit once i got bored with my mage or dh or whatever :/
unless massive fundamental changes happen, im not playing TWW. i really enjoy the gameplay of healing when it is done well, but id be lying if i said i had any fun healing in dragonflight :(
Props to you that you even managed to roll a DPS alt to that extent. XD - I get bwarked out of my skull before I get even close to max level. >_
The only real problem is that defensives are an illusion... They tune the content around them... Its stupid because they tune it for perfect usage which no one can achieve. Take away all defensives and stop tuning for it give defensives back to tanks and external for healers. Also fix versatility and avoidance. Leech is the least of your problems but having avoidance gear and stacking versatility is like having a wall 100% of the time. Nerf dmg buff up hp pools remove defensives allow healers to heal and dps to dps. Infinite scaling content shouldnt be about one shots it should be about inability to time a key. Make dps matter make healers matter. As right now neither matters dps could be playing with their feet and time a dungeon and healers are overglorified healing potions.
Just like the commentary on affixes, they say the right thing, and then do something different. They are hearing feedback, but not listening. As an R-Druid, the yoyo healing is very annoying/weak in a raid setting...and they nerfed us!
When I first got on beta and started dungeons with the greens you start with, I felt so damn weak and like I had to cast non-stop the entire dungeon and easily oom. Didn't help that idiots stood in shit, but the amount of healing done in comparison to how much mana I'm expending is just terrible. Regular dungeons were feeling like M+
I love wow but season 4 is a joke and healing is beyond stressful and not worth the squeeze once you factor in the time it takes to wait for a group to be formed, even a 5 man pug, then hoping they are skilled enough to do the content they signed up for, then if play flawlessly or near, the if a mistake does happen that someone doesn't insta quit making all the time up until then literally wasted, oh and then you feel unneeded in content with competent people and so then you're like what's the point.... I haven't played in 3 going on 4 weeks because there is no insentive, not even gold farming it's not worth the headache that comes along. And these non-changes don't instill any kind of excitement for moving forward. I am excited for other reasons but as a healer main since the insecption of the game and through and through this leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I don't want to go back to the days of vanilla but do you remember when no one but healers had heals, maybe 1 self heal, and that is how it was.
In an environment like this when every healer has to play the same no healer feels different because it's either they live or die you top them off or you don't and that's it. When we can have HoT healers, Spot healers, or Throughput healers because of one gets a little better everyone complains because when there is only 1 way to heal and 1 gets better at that 1 and only 1 way to heal specs get nerfed and we see the style of balancing and changes in the game we have seen the whole expansion.
Makes it feel more like an anime/manga were characters can do everything. WOW is different, everyone has rolos and it's team based. Healers are such a cool thing, so this definitely needs to be fixed.
On Grim Batol I was OOM after three pulls because of how insane the damage still is. Re-training tanks and dps on pacing for healer mana is just not gonna happen lol
Throwing defensives all around the talent tree = low keys harder to heal since either people not talented into def or not using them properly. For example +8 is harder to heal than +14 and that's from an experience.
RUclipsrs that have channels where they just read what someone else says is the absolute WORST
@AutomaticJak I LOVE your content, but I'm super confused about what seems like mixed messaging here. On one hand I'm hearing, "Healers are simply way too strong. They're even *redundant* -- everyone has insane survivability and a million defensives, why am I even in the key?" And then on the other hand I'm hearing "Healer skill cap is super high and I have to pre-cast spells perfectly just to keep people alive after insane burst damage!" Are healers necessary or not? Are they strong, or weak? Are they overpowered with insane throughput, or need precise skill shots just to keep people alive? Help a smooth-brain like me understand the essence of your argument!
In Atal'Dazar the damage mechanics are very bursty where DPS can defensive/off-heal thru the damage and make a healer irrelevant.
In Halls the first boss has enormously bursty damage where healers have to heal multiple health pools worth of damage to keep their allies alive so that they can survive the insane burst damage. Pre-casting healing is vital to success here.
Does this help?
I think its time for a number squish. Multiple millions of HP is gross.
Reading this article just made me feel like they aren't taking the issue seriously or even recognize the problem. Nothing is going to change. :(
tldr of there answer: we know about the problem, but we dont do anything
Your frustration is palpable, and spot on. Thanks for the analysis. I would add that i would love to feel that i can tweak my talents to produce effective and competent damage, ie battle resto, but still maintain ability to produce heavy healing when needed.
the worst part of throwing lots of defensives at people - is Button bloat, soooo sick of having So many gd buttons.
Yep. This creates mental overload for many players. And it is not only Buttons. Look at how complicated professions have become. It is insane.
@@scratcharmstrong agreed, my guild has discord "workshops" on how professions Work for folks who want to try em. Blizz over did it imo.
Played healer since bwl.... Stopped main heals in SL. Cant stand it, i dont mind working hard to heal but it doesnt feel rewarding when i get my bear and do more healing then i do as resto. Its a slap in the face. Hats off to those still healing.
Holy priest here: I just view the tank healing as part of its class design. Whether the damage doesn't exist to begin with or is self-healed away, to me, is just an implementation detail - albeit an annoying one when it comes to Death Knights, admittedly (R.I.P. oh-so-many casts of Serenity
SL healing was better. Fight me.
I actually agree with this so much.
I agree and bring back my Vesper Totem!
Don’t think this is actually a hot take.
@stanjd based
But everything else was worse imo haha
Not sure what your point is... you are all over the place. Do you want healer nerfs? Is it not hard and discouraging enough of a role? Not many healers out there anymore , and your plan is to nerf defenses?
Would recommend checking out my other video in the description if you’re confused
so s1 of DF mad me lose all confidenc in my healing in keys didnt start healing again till in s4 and then all my frindes stoped playing and stuff not looking better in TWW scars me ngl
yup, DF turned me from a multiple healer player into a ret pally main. With the looks of TWW I'm not sure i'll even level up the healing alts.
+50% stamina buff
-50% effective DR in defensive (or double cooldown of immunes)
-50% to self heals, leech, passive shield stacking (TANKS INCLUDED)
Remove leech
If the problem is balancing m+ across such a wide range of player skill, why not break that up? Have the regular m+ that we know and love for the people who still want to get the ksm every season and the portals etc, but introduce a new "Competitive M+" where there's a leader board and it's tuned for the people using their defensives perfectly. They can have their sweaty title and rank and have something to push that doesn't feel watered down to them while us regular sobs can still feel good about the current difficulty.
Ashes of Creation is bringing a new, fresh and simple aspect to healing with how it works. WoW has just made it suck unless you play Paladin. Reactive healing in this game sucks because you have to always keep track of cooldowns and other abilities that actually make healing work and not feel weak. Its overly complicated healing and makes it a CHORE and STRESSFUL and not fun. The fact I HAVE TO, not recommended to, I HAVE TO download so many damn addons to help me keep track of my own damn abilities makes this suuuuuuuuuuuuck something fierce. Blizzard also has to take into account, PUGS. Not everyone and as a matter of fact, a LARGE portion of mythic plus players are NOT IN DEDICATED GRPS. This is where the encounters and healing for certain classes is WAY off kilter. STOP making healing overly complicated and stop giving us 30 plus freaking abilities when we should only need 5 or 6. My button bar is OVERWHELMED. I cant even fit everything on it. I need yet, ANOTHER ADDON. So sick of this. Sorry for the rant. This crap all started when these geniuses decided classes like ROGUE needed a self heal. Now everyone has one, everyone has a defensive cooldown....it was dumb then and its dumb now. Blizzard is Blizzard and nothing is changing. Im not coming back to this crap. I quit a year ago and man my sanity and well being is soooo much better since I can play games that bring me ENJOYMENT and not STRESS. Screw you Blizz. Screw you and your idiotic ego and stubbornness. You DONT know whats best for this game and you keep proving it. Okay really this time... /rant off
The most fun encounter to heal has been the 3rd boss in halls of infusion. Pumping out heals for predictable damage that the dps can’t live through on their own.
I would like to see heathbars taking longer to top, less one shots, and a more engaging triage effect.
This would also translate to your healer feeling represented, at the moment, you never think “what a good healer that was”. The current gameplay is just instantly topping and overhealing
Third boss sucks in high keys. If you're not the meta healer, you simply won't get invited. Bad fight to talk about.
Also the spamming of healing absorbs on boss fights skews which healers can deal with it easier. Say Resto Shaman for example: If all targets are roughly full hp when the absorbs come in, but they do not get put on every single raid member, using things like Chain Heal to try and chunk the absorbs down becomes very difficult thanks to smart heal targeting and Resto Shaman inherently healing slightly less on higher hp targets due to how our healing and mastery works. This was already a headache on fights like Smolderon and Tindral mythic which Jak used as a general example.
On the other hand, a disc priest could set up atonements (especially on Smolderon as you would know who gets the debuffs every 2nd set of debuffs) and easily have all of their heals hit the intended recipients.
It's stuff like this which makes it feel even worse for specific healing specs on top of it starting to feel like an overused mechanic.
It's crazy that I love healing and prefer main healing / support in every other game I play, but I tapped out of healing in WoW and it's just a role I will never enjoy now. That's sad.
What's the expression? "Watch what they do, not what they say." I think you're right, Jak, to be disappointed. I am too.
Bursting damage is not good for healer, but Bliz just try to do lot of bursting damage. Not every dps hv many DEF CD to counter the burst damage. Esp in M+, there is only 1 healer to deal with all burst damage. Burst damage can be more in raid as there are more then 1 healer, but in M+, only 1 healer need to deal with all burst damage, once the healer miss the healthbar while doing dps, the dps will die.
Going DPS now after more than 10 years as healer ;(
If you don't have a team, you will sit in que for an hour
After playing Cata for fun with my guildies. I can say that I have never had more fun healing on holy paladin than this. Every choice I make feels important, whether its choosing to use holy light to conserve mana, or blast holy radiance or divine light to pump heals at the cost of mana. I know its probably impossible to mimic, but personally I have fallen in love with cata healing. Everything you do just feels important
The biggest thing you are ignoring here is development time and how their schedule must work. If you have 100-300 people working on an expansion 2 years before it gets released and gets feedback you simply won't get the quick iteration you are hoping for.
Obviously, I don't know what's going on in their studios but rethinking fundamentals in encounter design and combat is most likely not something they can easily pull off. The timeframe you are talking about (end of DF S1) is around 4-5 months after launch so I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the fundamentals have already been decided and they're not willing to pull resources from other areas to revisit these fundamentals.
At least with this interview, they are making it clear that they know about these problems and are working on them, sadly that means we won't see the results of those efforts for a long time.
Cut all the shields by 25% and DR % by half.
Then reduce spike DMG
So weird to see the exact same conversation from the beginning of DF still hanging around and happening. I swear blizzard never learns anything, they just ask themselves "what'd we do before?" Then they just do that again and ignore any lessons they should have learned.
Every response from blizzard has to include : "We're talking about it" . Stop talking about it and do something. Expac is coming in 2 months god damn it
Am i missing something, or is this not a new thing? Healers feel stronger if they can pump health bars up. If they can pump health bars up faster as the expansion goes on, then the way things get "harder" is a spike and shakeup in dmg profiles. Then we all complain about one shots, so they periodically rebalance health bars higher and our power down. Then were happy until that threshold gets hit again. Repeat. If Blizz stops the healer power going up to then dull and smooth out the spikes, then we as healers would complain that theres no way for us to get stronger with better gear, violating a core tenant of gaming : "the more i play, the stronger i want to get*
The novel problem is that theres now infinitely scaling difficulty available back to back. Whereas before this spike creep happened gradually over the course of tiers, it happens over the course of hours as the M+ key level increases.
We're complaining that an infinitely scaling dmg mode eventually hits a point where that dmg can one shot people, so Blizzard gives people defensive tools to push even higher as a skill gate and let the great players push even higher. Then we're blaming the defensives as the problem when its really that were sitting in key levels with +dmg% modifiers that cause a dps class to take more damage even a tank wouldn't have been expected to take on normal.
Maybe we're really just pushing these classes past their design limits at some point? And if we gut and re-make their design to function at that new level then suddenly they've got huge swaths of content that's too easy / boring.
I don't know, maybe M+ was a mistake. A Honda Accord used to be fine, until we started needing Ferraris to progress and wanted Blizz to refit the Accord into a sports car. Maybe M+ would just have a preloaded set of gear with rewards you can take out of M+. That way they can tune as needed health and healer power?
We don't have a Diablo like Paragon system, our gear / stats don't infinitely scale with the infinitely scaling M+. By definition, we're going to hit a hard ceiling and -nothing- Blizzard does can avoid that.
Hey, Jack! Its guys.
I seriously hate this idea they have in their head that having all the answers to everything is ''good fantasy''. I've played this game for 10+ years and I don't see being confused and lost in the 50 buttons I have to press according to X encounter and X key ability as being immersive and getting me into the fantasy of my class. They have lost the plot when it comes to the ability bloat of this game man... Good fantasy in an MMO is REQUIRING OTHERS TO FILL IN THE GAPS WHERE YOU ARE LACKING. T-E-A-M-W-O-R-K. They keep saying ''solving puzzles as a team(the affix bs)'' when referencing casual players in Mythic+ or whatever, yet the team aspect of classes being unique and helping each other is non existent because they have the wrong idea of what ''good fantasy'' is FOR AN MMO. Time to wake up in that board room...
this would be a lot easier to balance if they went after DPS defensives and healer utility/mitigation, as well as a tanks ability to self-heal/absorb damage. And it wasn't just "assumed" that you would have x class, so they "have" to have a specific amount of damage or things like this. burst damage is an awful game of whack-a-mole; I'd rather struggle to keep everyone at 100% but always feel I need to be casting heals
Ripping everything out and gutting it might ruin pvp though. And they'd have to add a TON more pvp talent slots or something to make up for it or buff the hell out of healing over all. So ripping that stuff out would cause them to have to completely rebalance pvp out of no where and those teams would need to do a TON of work to make that workable. And I get we are a small portion of the player base, but there are still a bunch of classes that don't have enough defensives in the current pvp landscape. So a ton of thought has to go into how they do that or entire classes might become unplayable in an entire aspect of the game.
Hard disagree.
PvP has already lost so much its former playerbase. Many stopped of mental overload. Making it easier = reducing mental Stress = more fun = more players paying = healthy pvp scene.
I am not a healer. I can’t find a way to practice as i am generally a solo player and pugs are utterly horrid for practice. Just gitgud and kicks.
However. I don’t understand why Blizzard can’t just give 3 heal/barriers to each class: a baby HoT/flash heal, 46s mini CD and a 2min big CD. They can all function differently per class - and then thats it. All heals come from healers. Healers just 99% hps and 1% dps. Dispels and interrupts etc.
Give tanks proper armor and HP to slow the incoming damage. So healers can have time to top them up. They should dps 80% of the dam of a dps class.
Dps should be 25% more dam than tanks. And panic heal with those 3 heal kit abilities - beyond that. If you screwed up and pulled too much it would force All Classes to utilise CC again. Which hasn’t been a thing since Cata. Now its just mass aoe run. Mass aoe run.
I can’t speak to all types of gameplay. But i feel a return to Tank, DPS, Heal separation instead of lots of solo overall hybrid nonsense. Idk.
They were never going to prune when adding hero talents into this.
For better or worse, I personally had the most fun as a healer during their healing model throughout WoTLK and then again during about mid to late Cata. The start of Cata with their (at the time) new triage system felt terrible, probably due to lack of stats on gear early in the xpac and the longer MoP went on it seemed like it slowly declined. Then I quit WoW from MoP until DF. When I returned, healing felt worse than it ever had to me but there was enough new about the game to keep my interest. Over the course of DF it's just gotten less and less fun and impactful. Going into TWW I really don't feel any excitement over anything to keep me drawn to WoW from a healer perspective. Naturally, I'll give it a go in TWW before judging early but it may be time for me at least to take another break from WoW. For many reasons, I just don't foresee Blizzard really being incentivized to push hard towards a timely solution to healing. I'm sure they'll tweak the game slowly over time but will they bring forth enough positive change before they lose more of their healer playerbase?
The problem is that they always know that healing needs to change but sadly besides adding more health they dont do much...
I've been playing as a restro druid since 2005 until 2 years ago. Healing was more stresfull than fun in the last 2 years in my opinion. So i decided to switch to dps. Tbh, for me, this game has become too complex that sometimes i feel like a newbie. Therefore i play softcore anymore. The button bload everywhere. Or im getting old. Dunno.
They're not designing the game purely around mythic +, you have a multitude of difficulty ranges, and content types. This is the ultimate issue, they cannot design purely for M+.
I honestly believe mythic + shouldn't be in the game, it's just toxic. But that's purely a personal feeling on it. I miss when heroics were the end goal, in dungeons and raids.
I think M+ should have more avoidable light two shot mechanics, and reduced consistent damage spiking. Not so much of either to be ultra stressful, but enough to where you need to be paying attention when you know that kind of attack is coming so you can heal anyone who gets hit.
You can't design for the top 1% because plenty of people struggle just with simple mechanics as it is.
With all nerfs around healers and tanks I lost it as a healer now (after 15 years). Tanks are papper, healers feels weak. Tanks and healers lost their identity. We are no longer heros. It is funny that we got Hero talents but we are feeling weaker 😂
While we needed only Defensive tanks with big Hp bar and without selfhealing and dmg. Dmgers without selfhealing but with massive dmg about which tanks and healers can only dreaming and Healers with massive healing without dmg. And bosses with less spike mechanics. The End
I don't get why they don't just nerf defensives, like increase their cooldowns and reduce their % values.
What are defenses? I currently occupy M0 and M2 on my healer and I super rarely seem any defensive, let alone DPS not standing in bad. I have to constantly spam heals to keep people alive. Taking a "breather" kills other players. I don't think Blizzard is considering player behavior when it comes to healing, they are just looking at raw numbers and abilities.
Blizzard: We heard you, we are aware of the problem, we know our bandaids fix don't fix the problem... but we're going to proceed with bandaids.
See you in the .1 patch when they announce another health bump / healing nerf.
Gotta start pruning again. Several classes got super bloated whereas others are either okay or pretty sparse. Always felt like healers put WAY too much emphasis into healing cds too vs just raw power. You can't realistically expect most players to react effectively with a multitude of cooldowns. Most of us just aren't good enough or don't have enough knowledge of every single possible encounter in a dungeon/raid to accommodate that. This isn't just true of healers though a couple tanks have the same issues. Tons of cds, very little power outside of them, encounters designed around always having a CD up even down to the trash pulls.
Then we go and bloat it out again even FURTHER with hero talents. I wish they had of spent the dev time on another class or specs for existing classes instead of making everything even more complex. It gets exhausting. There's solutions for that, but some of them like locking players into X number of abilities, and then forcing hard choices doesn't seem to be something they want to explore based on years of development in the opposite direction.
I feel like they've completely missed the point. Ok, defensives and health pools and leech, fine. But, the issue is the class design itself. Almost every healer is now ramp based. "Cast 50 spells so you can finally cast a few heals that are impactful". Paladins spread glimmer, and beacon, and tyr's and then you really start healing, but also don't let glimmers fall off. Druid cast all these hots so you can actually cast your big spells without going OOM. Disc make sure you have all your atonements out and then use your CDs in a specific order to get big healing. Like every class has been converted to the old disc priest model. So, yes we have big bursty heals but the effort it takes to get there is overlooked. And, how long you can keep that up is often not enough to deal with the damage before you have to go back into maintenance healing mode. God forbid every healer hits their burst window before the damage actually starts (this can be mitigated, but still).
We had an absolute wall with our healing set up with the heal absorbs on Smolderon as none of us had any direct healing capable to getting them off quickly. Even at max ilvl. They need to incorporate more of the old style of healing where you can do low output but efficient heals and then switch to high output inefficient heals for burst windows. Every class need to ramp now and it sucks as there is almost no room for errors.
Wouldn't making the defensives more spread apart with bigger cd and mellowing both dmg taken and healing overall just solve this?
Isnt what im saying nust reverting to how it used to be? You can still have the spikes of damage. Just don't have them constantly. And the dps can still survive a bit on defensives, just not all the time...
In delves you cut the defensive cds by a lot and that's it. Defensives remain impactful everywhere, important in delves, situationally important in m+.
Healers get better gameplay....
Why is it so hard? It literally used to be better i dont get it.
My subscription ended 2 days ago and I don't know when I might renew. As a 3.2k rated healer ( not druid) I have to wait forever to be invited into grps. Blizzard is not tuning Balance and the overall healing checks are way too spiky. Not fun .... which it should be.
It’s odd, we had this same issue a couple expansions ago, (I think it was either legion or MoP.) and yet somehow we ended up in the same situation. I think they nerfed healing back then too along with some nerfs to defensives, like touch of karma going from 100% of your hp to 50%.
I’m completely with you that now as healer it’s play where you ah e to get all players to 100% very quickly or they next burst dmg, so basically the health pools do not even matter as it’s either 90-100% or you dead. I preferred the days where it was ok when players didn’t had to be at 100% all the time but slowly going down and yes at some point it did mean death. Now it’s you get dmg, quick heal, than if you have time do some dps, than again quick heal and so on. Healers do crazy overheal as everyone is trying to get everyone to 100% and if not perfect coordination wasting cooldowns and so on.
As a healer, I have never felt so powerful, and at the same time, so useless as I have in Dragonflight. You can top people in a global but can't carry a group UNLESS people use their personals. The epic and heroic moments you use to have keep your team alive aren't in your hands anymore. If WWI is anything like Dragonflight, then it'll be a easy pass from me.
Keep fighting the good fight Jak we believe in you guys making a difference! I miss the days of Mr Average healer being able to let the group know... "I've got CDs let's go big" rather than "oh shit my team don't have defensives let's run for the hills" 🙈
Healing at the start of Cata was the peak of healing, and they've never got back to that. It was also busted by gear, but it was at least a little bit better because mana management and efficient triage of group health was the design focus.
Seems like most of this could be fixed by rarely using spike damage and instead using more unavoidable (and i mean truly unavoidable, like not mitigated by damage reduction cds, etc) ticking damage to threaten group survival. To add another layer, self-heals could be 50% effective by all dps characters.
Does the wow healing developer(s) actually play the game? Not trying to be shady or rude, it just doesn't feel that they are actually experiencing the content they're creating. I know it's tough to balance a game around 1% players, casual players, or even content creators - but it feels like an overwhelming voice of healers are telling them what to fix but they're unable to grasp simple concepts.
Blizzard needs to nerf incoming damage as the first step. No amount of one-sided fudging with player mitigation / output can fix the incoming danger problem. It feels like Blizzard is paralyzed by the fear that high end raid groups might drop a healer so they pigeon hole the role into a very narrow band of skill expression of "insta-top the raid between all damage events" because it's simple and easily predictable.
to me theres some obvious options they could do immediately.. make the dps defensives optional talents that they would have to sacrifice dps/utility for.. thatkeeps them powerful but not standard/required.. make mana relevant again and keep healers powerful instead of nerfing them to make it challenging. but no i can guarantee they will just increase players health again
people have been complaining about it from the start of dragonflight and now they are like oh it's only weeks away from xpac we cant do anything
they want to keep healing challenging yet put dps health responsibility in their own hands, so they keep making it burstier
then dps defensives are so strong healers arent needed
come on blizzard you had healing good for like 15 years
now you cant work it out
I loved healing in SL but it's time to admit that it was mostly stessful and very rarely fun in DF. At best I felt adequate. Never did I feel I could help or carry anyone, regardless of key level. With this interview, I can only feel dread for War Within. It may be time to make choices.
It will happen as always: blizzard nerfs healers, healers are unhappy, nobody wants to heal anymore, people are complaining, people are complaining more, blizzard buffs healers in general. Same procedure as last year? Same procedure as every year James!
I highly considered to move away from healing because I just don't enjoy it anymore. I'm afraid TWW will just be the same boring healing style DF has to offer rn.