Joseph Knew 2.0 | Book of Mormon Evidence
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
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We are excited to begin our Supplemental Come Follow Me with Jonathan Neville. In this first episode, we dive into the fascinating world of Book of Mormon geography and its impact on Latter-Day Saint history and theology. Join us as we explore Joseph Smith's initial teachings about the geographical settings of the Book of Mormon.
As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we believe that the Book of Mormon is a sacred record of ancient American inhabitants and their interactions with God. But how does geography fit into this narrative? And what role did it play in the early days of the Church?
Joseph Smith himself made several statements about the location and origins of events mentioned in the Book of Mormon. These statements ranged from specific locations to more general descriptions, leaving room for interpretation and debate among scholars and members alike.
• Gain a deeper understanding of the Book of Mormon through exploring its history and geography
• Uncover the mysteries and controversies surrounding the location and origins of events in the Book of Mormon
• Expand your knowledge and perspective on Joseph Smith's teachings and their impact on Church history and theology
• Join a community of like-minded individuals dedicated to delving into the fascinating world of Book of Mormon evidence
Visit us at Bookofmormonevidence.org
Visit Jonathan Neville at www.mobom.org/ & nomorecontenti...
This weeks Associated lesson is January 8-14: “I Will Go and Do”
You can watch our video Discussing 1 Nephi 1-5 with Mike & Betty LaFontaine Here
• Lesson 2 Come Follow M...
#bookofmormonchallenge #bookofmormon #bookofmormonstories #bookofmormoncentral #latterdaysaints #josephsmith #josephknew
#churchofjesuschristoflatterdaysaints
Thank you so much. Im a convert to the church due to curiosity of my native half. Well, I'm being baptized in February 😊. It hits much closer to home considering these events unfolded in North America and weirdly enough, this will push me to continue the scriptures.:D
Thats wonderful news! Congratulations on your faith! Dont forget to subscribe to see future videos!
whether it happened in North America, or Not what stands out too me is the Navajo Beliefs of The Speaker of Peace. Pre-Mortal Existence, The War in Heaven. they of course have their own distinct interpretations, and I think its important to uphold that, but I have no doubt at this point that Jesus Christ came to the Americas. There are things in their Tradition also that will stand out to you after you have gone to the Temple.
Navajo Traditional Teachings is a wonderful Channel.
Type in under search Jesus. You will see what I'm saying. Also this video they have is rather peculiar.
"About The Evil One: Native American (Navajo) Teachings." Compare this to what we know about the Adversary.
Amazing stuff. When you go to the Temple you might have the eye to see other things about Navajo Ordinances which might seem oddly Familiar. Take Care.
@ErC-oj6rc Wow, that is so interesting. Thank you so much for the recommendation, I really appreciate it! You take care as well, have a good weekend!
@@blablabla9348 You too, and let me also say it doesn't begin, and end with the Navajo. The Mandaeans were the First Apostates that refused to Follow Jesus Christ, and their Descendants have carried with that some interesting Ordinances, and Beliefs as well that can also be observed in Ethiopian Orthodox, and other patterns found in Antiochan Orthodox which is very similar to what you will find in Latterday Saint Temples. So yes. Many questions do I have, but all I know for certain as that since joining back in 2020. I can say that I never planned on it, I never met with any Missionaries, Nobody told me what would happen when I read the Book of Mormon with an Open Mind and everything about my understanding of the World, and its History Changed because of it.
The church and Book of Mormon are 100% true, but no one knows where the events took place.
One of my uncles did a lot of research on the history and locations related to the Book of Mormon over more than 20 years, and he said that there was no evidence that the Book of Mormon events ever took place in South America (Meso-America). He did tell me that the evidence is overwhelming in support of North America locations, specifically in and around the Mid-West. Thank you for all that you do!
The church says the only thing we know is that it took place in the Americas.
Your uncle is astute! Tell him thanks for his thoughtful understanding! We agree!
Yes, and I believe Joseph Smith thought we'd be smart enough to figure out it is North America. He made many indications of people here in the North. Nevertheless, one can always pray about it.
What would be wonderful is for you, Rod and Jonathan, to get together with others like Wayne and Bruce, and create a book or consistently styled and authored series of books that cover the evidence that has been gathered so far, so we have it all in one place. Rod's two sets of video presentations are a great source material to start with, as well as the "Prophecies and Promises" book, together with Jonathan's books covering Letter VII and Lost City of Zarahemla and Moroni's America, etc. Some of the books and presentations overlap in their coverage, and many new insights have been discussed in live presentations and videos like this since then, so it would be nice to have one common source to go to that could potentially be be updated every few years with new editions/revisions.
Obviously, that would be a massive undertaking.
That is why we created our streaming website, with over 1,500 one-hour presentations and research on the subject by over 400 scholars and experts and researchers that cover nearly every conceivable aspect of the evidences to support its authenticity and historicity. This includes Wayne May, Bruce Porter, Jonathan Neville, Hannah Stoddard and hundreds of others. As far as is known it is the largest compilation of information and research ever assembled on the subject, and is available to everyone for as little as $7.97/month, much of which goes to support those doing the research. If you would like to elevate your study of the Book of Mormon this year... Go to www.bookofmormonevidence.org for more information. There are hundreds of free videos and articles there as well.
@@BookofMormonEvidence And it's a great streaming service, and the presentations are fantastic.
I will always prefer books.
The Annotated Edition of the Book of Mormon is probably the closest thing we have currently available that could meet your criteria. If you don't already have a copy, please consider getting one. Wayne and so many others corroborated together in the making of the book. And you are right, it truly was a huge undertaking! But we were blessed in doing so.
@@BookofMormonEvidence I have a first edition, which was indeed a wonderful resource. :)
@@BookofMormonEvidence I see several annotated versions of the Book of Mormon on Amazon. Which one exactly is it?
You guys are the best! I’m forever grateful to you both. I’ve been following you all for several years now. We’ve never met but I wanted to send some love and appreciation from Yuma, AZ.
May the Lord bless you both for holding the line and preserving much of our true church history. And not backing down even with much resistance. Hopefully some of us young guns can help assist and carry on your amazing work.
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I really like you guys Insight on the Wentworth letter, I find it hilarious how you approached of how most people don't know about it. However I find it sad that the church would disregard this historical evidence to appease the people that want the Mesoamerican model to be the Forerunner of the Book of Mormon. I am so thankful for you guys and Rod on coming out about this! I've been like crawling through the desert to try and find out where the Book of Mormon took place. Never knew of the Mounds, never knew of the Hopewell, just now found out through my genealogy that I have Muskogee Creek Indian in my blood, I was wondering all these years waiting to see the lamanites blossom as a rose and didn't realize that I was the rose!
Hello my dear friends, delighted to see you on this podcast. Thank you for your enormous work of research and sharing of knowledge. Gabriel de Paris
Glad to see you hear!
So glad to have Rod Meldrum back
The Book of Mormon 4 years later will be read differently with the quickly changing times, so another study from you all will still be valuable for sure.
Thanks! I agree, Dont forget to subscribe to see future videos if you havent already!
Thank you for this podcast and sharing facts regarding the Book of Mormon. I have come to see over the years that the Book of Mormon history took place in America.
It came to me as a real solid suprise since 2014 ..it rang so true!
Thanks for watching! Dont forget to subscribe to see future videos if you havent already!
Thank you gentlemen for your hard work and diligence. It is meant a lot to me in my personal journey for more light and knowledge. I wish I could give you both a big hug 🤗
Thanks! Dont forget to subscribe to see future videos if you havent already!
I think it should be obvious that Jesus didn't appear at a temple where they did human sacrifices. Just saying...
Great point! 😉
Audio is low on this. Very interesting about Oliver’s version being edited
Im sorry you didnt hear it well, we have new mics we are adjusting to as well as a new switcher to handle more inputs. We appreciate your patience! We will stabilize it for the subsequent videos. Thanks for your feedback!
This is cool, I remember watching these while on my mission in AZ. It blew my mind and I just knew something true was going to come from it. Looking forward to these.
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Joseph Smith knew and Rod Meldrum knew that if he left the volume output low, we would all have to pay close attention and listen very carefully. :>)
You caught us!
Yeah !!!! You are back
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I just discovered another MAJOR problem with Saints Vol 1 that is probably more egregious than censoring Cumorah. I don't know why I didn't see this until now. In addition to the many issues and deceptions in Saints Vol 1, I have to add another one to the list. As you know, in 1842, Joseph Smith wrote the Wentworth Letter to John Wentworth, publisher of the Chicago Democrat.
The Wentworth Letter is one of the greatest documents that Joseph produced short of scripture. Of this classic, Elder B. H. Roberts (1857-1933) of the First Council of the Seventy wrote: “The letter is one of the choicest documents in our church literature."
The Wentworth Letter was included in the 2008-2009 Priesthood and Relief Society manuals (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, covered 2 years). However, 151 words were censored from that letter because the words supported ancient America (this land) as the location for the Book of Mormon.
I just discovered that the 1842 Wentworth Letter is not found in Saints Vol 1 (1815-1846) just like Cumorah and Oliver Cowdery's mission to the Lamanites and Joseph's June 1834 letter to Emma about wandering over the plains of the Nephites a day after discovering Zelph's mound. Ironically, the subtitle of Vol 1 is "The Standard of Truth" which is stated in the WL. Joseph begins the letter with this caution. "Mr. Wentworth says that he wishes to furnish Mr. [George] Barstow, a friend of his, who is writing the history of New Hampshire, with this document. As Mr. Barstow has taken the proper steps to obtain correct information, all that I shall ask at his hands, is, that he publish the account entire, ungarnished, and without misrepresentation.” Unfortunately, Mr. Barstow never used the history because he ended his New Hampshire history in 1819. However, how blessed we are to have this document in the possession of the church. Scholars violated Joseph Smith's terms twice--in the PH/RS manuals and in Saints Vol 1. This is more than an oxymoron--it's blatant deception.
In Saints Vol 1, on the page after the copyright date and the Library of Congress verbiage is the following famous quote from the Wentworth Letter without attributing it as the source.
The standard of truth has been erected. No unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done.
-Joseph Smith, 1842
This Wentworth Letter included the 13 Articles of Faith. Another gem from Church History has been censored!
Sadly, the scholars plucked this gem from the Wentworth Letter to create the book, "The Standard of Truth" for the subtitle of Saints Vol 1. However, the book if full of deceptions--much worse than I described in my Sep 2023 LOP magazine article.
These are great! Such a good idea to replay the older documentary and add comments and info, AND the links to the JSP. Thanks very much.
You are very welcome...
Great job, you two! Great new evidences. Thank you so much for all the time spent in research, and the links to the source documents. Keep up the good work!
Our pleasure!
Yeah guys!
Mr. Neville, I hope your proposed Essay on Translation (for the Gospel Topics Essays) gets approved!
We do, too! Having an endorsement from historian Richard Bushman is a great start.
I used to be like Jon and assumed it had to be the Mesoamerica theory for Book of Mormon geography. That was what was shoved down our throats by the BYU scholars, Church History people, etc... Then, actually reading the D&C, I began to doubt. I don't delight in it, but here is another black eye for FAIR, Scripture Central, the Church Correlation bureaucrats, most of the BYU "scholars," The Zion Book compilers and on and on. When are they going to swallow their pride and admit they might be wrong? The manipulations of the Wentworth Letter to protect their position really disappoints me. Just present all the evidence and quit cherry picking it!!
Be sure to watch the next several deep-dive episodes as Rod and Jon provide what we believe will become known as the most detailed information ever provided about what Joseph Smith knew about the geography of the Book of Mormon.
They go into detail about the origins of the Meso-America theory and what actions Joseph took to prevent its spread.
So fantastic! Thank you! ❤
You're welcome! Don't forget to subscribe to see future videos!
Love seeing you back Brother Meldrum!!! Love all your content. It is so frustrating that the church sides with the false Meso narrative and allow the spawns of Leanard Arrington to dictate false history.
One question… why were the plates, U&T separated to a separate stone box and not kept in the repository that was later visited as well? Is there anything written on that? I recall Brother Neville talking about how they had to move all those wagon loads of plates in the repository to hide them as well. Do we know where those are now?
God bless you both!!!
The Church has been making a good faith effort to be true to it's policy of neutrality. Case in point, the many Heartland depictions in the new manual.
Why are the plates and U&T separated from the repository of records... stay tuned for Rod and Jonathan's comments on that very subject, coming soon in an upcoming part of this conversation!
Great show !
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I have followed you guys and am a firm believer. I am just getting into this podcast and you are talking about the Wentworth letter and it just occurred to me that perhaps the reason that the leadership hasn't received prophecy on the location of th BOM is because we already have it from the prophet Joseph! Its right there and undeniably!!
Exactly! Why would they need to proclaim it again if we didn't believe Joseph the first time?!
I know there was Orson Pratt and Orson Hyde. I can't remember which, but I was listening to a Joirnal Of Discourses Brigham Young talk where he described one of the Orson's as a good man who basically was too willing to speak on subjects about which he received no revelation. Very interesting to me when I heard that
That had to be Orson Pratt. He was admonished many times for things he said.
Thanks for sharing.
I purchased a Book of Mormon “the earliest text by royal Skousen”. Anytime you let editors get a hold of sacred text un supervised your asking for trouble. Just like the New Testament.
Good point.
Fantastic video. Very informative.. Well done.
Thanks! And there's more to come! Stay tuned by subscribing so you'll be notified when the next episode is released. God bless!
In addition to the large room that exists in the hill Comorah, which large room is said by Oliver Cowdry to have contained wagonloads of plates, that logically proves the heartland is the Book of Mormon lands, because Maroni did not carry wagonloads of plates from anywhere, Moroni also abridged the Book of Ether directly from the 24 Jaradite plates, so after Mormon gave him the gold plates Maroni went back to where Mormon gave him the plates from and added the book of Ether. This all shows he was in close proximity to the plates of Nephi.
The repository of records was IN the Hill Cumorah in New York and the abridged plates of Mormon and Moroni were secreted ON the Hill Cumorah in the stone box. We think this is supporting evidence as you have beautifully outlined. 😉
Over the years, I have received negative feedback for going into "Deep Doctrine".. the term is almost taboo, people always criticizing saying "You don't need to know all that, just stick to the basics!". I realized that there is no such thing as "Deep Doctrine" only doctrine (at least when founded upon truth). I have instead started to refer to it as "Specific Doctrine" and try to stay away from speculations. Thank you for your Podcast! Glad to see it back up and going.
Thanks for tuning in! The Part 2 will be released on Saturday Jan 13th at 10am! Tune in to watch live! Dont forget to like and subscribe if you havent already!
The Holy Scriptures are repleat with commands to seek for truth and even to study the mysteries of God. We don't remember any scripture to just 'study the basics' and forget about the 'meat' to remain suckling for milk. If you know of one, please share.
The picture on the front cover can go with the scriptures, Bible and Book of Mormon, of Jesus telling "other sheep I have which are not of this fold".
Exactly... the people in Central America were some of the 'other' "other sheep" to which God commanded Christ to visit. They were not the Hebrew descendant Nephites, but were blessed Asiatic peoples who got to know the Lord!
I love that painting!! Wish I could hear the video..
Im sorry you didnt hear it well, we have new mics we are adjusting to as well as a new switcher to handle more inputs. We appreciate your patience! We will stabilize it for the subsequent videos. Thanks for your feedback! Dont forget to subscribe to get notice of the future videos!
Good morning Rod from the Heartland! I just finished the video and absolutely cannot wait for part 2. You were correct in your text that this information is impossible to refute. Thanks for all that you do and will see you next time you are in Ohio.
Thanks for tuning in! The Part 2 will be released on Saturday Jan 13th at 10am! Tune in to watch live! Dont forget to like and subscribe if you havent already!
In chapter 6 of the book of Mormon in the book of Mormon Moroni's father Mormon hid records in the Hill Cumorah before Moroni did.
That stood out to me after reading the entire book of Mormon again, l don't know how many times...
Exactly! Thanks!
I don't think it's about what I believe or anyone else, but it's about FACT. It is what it is.
By the way, it's not Stripling Warriors. That is total misinformation and false prophecy. No where in the Book of Mormon does it talk about stripling warriors. I believe there is a significance to that. One is that it is false and false prophesy is slipping into the Church. And second, there is a huge difference between a warrior and a soldier. I encourage you to study the difference and reflect on the purpose and intent behind the reasons why they were referred too actually as "stripling sons" and "stripling soldiers". Nothing about "warrior". Please, don't tell me it's no big deal. Just be careful with letting falsehoods slip in.
And about the Book of Mormon land, or its heartland, it is fascinating, but I think the population of this land from north to south America was different than what we know today. There was ongoing trade between the Yucatan's etc and the people in Florida, Georgia and Carolinas. They are finding pyramids in forests in these regions too. So focusing on the heartland is just one focus and should not mean that the Book of Mormon population didn't trade and/or travel and even mingle or mix with people from all over. We don't even know, or actually we believe that it is likely when Nephi and his family landed in the Americas that they were not alone but that the continent was populated. Lot's of fun to consider a vivid living Book of Mormon.
Good points. Thanks for sharing!
Very much respect both you guys and your work! Have to take issue with one comment. Revelation of modern prophets does not supersede revelation of past prophets. That is a false doctrine. One has to be right and one has to be wrong if they contradict each other. Fact is fact, regardless, of what era in which the statement is made. We can call a man a prophet, but if he contradicts a past prophet, then one of them is wrong. Listen to the Holy Ghost. It will tell you that this is true.
Totally agree with you on doctrinal issues. A revelation from an eternal God remains the same over eternities. We were talking more along the lines of policies and Church programs, which can and do change over time, unlike doctrines. Good observation. Appreciate your clarification. Thanks again.
The volume level is super low. Any way to fix the volume?
Volume is good on my phone.
Im sorry you didnt hear it well, we have new mics we are adjusting to as well as a new switcher to handle more inputs. We appreciate your patience! We will stabilize it for the subsequent videos. Thanks for your feedback!
Thank you for all your work . For some reason the sound is not very loud, also it would be nice if we could see the whole large video being played instead of seeing Jonathan and Rod with it..
Thanks for the feedback! We have listened and have made the changes you outlined in the 2nd episode. Let us know what you think of the changes if you would. Thanks again!
Good stuff! But mix your sound up (studio standards) so that we don't have to crank it up to max in order to hear you.
Hmm... thought we had adressed that and had the volume up, but we'll double check it again and see why we aren't giving enough range in volume control.
Thanks for the great feedback, and your patience with us!
The Cherokee say their old records are in a hill in NY and are on plates of metal of gold ,copper , or brass.
And so do the Iroquois.
It doesn't effect my testimony of the Book of Mormon but every since I joined the church in 2005 the Meso American theory never made sense to me! This just rings true! I go by what Joseph had been proven to say himself!
We conquer!
Love your set. Headsets look awkward. No mic stands or boom mics? Even laveliers?
Glad you like the set! We finally have room to have even panel discussions (coming soon)...
We have mikes, stands and laveliers, but we needed to be able to hear the original DVD so we could make comments. The vast majority of future episodes will use those. Thanks!
So glad I stumbled across this. RUclips algorithm finally gives me something worthwhile. Only complaint -- the volume is very low, I have my PC speaker at max and can just barely hear you...
Yes, sorry about that! The 1st episode was that way, but all the next episodes should be fine. Thanks for letting us know!
How does one obtain a Gold Plates replica and/or Liahona replica like you have on your shelf. I think our 10 year old Primary class would enjoy seeing those. Thanks
The replica Gold Plates was made by Steve Glenn of Mormon Art & Bronze in Provo, Utah. Steve was a personal friend and member of the ward where Rod used to live. Unfortunately Steve passed away a few years ago and it is unknown if his sons who currently run the shop can make any further replicas.
The Liahona and Sword of Laban were made by another friend of Rod’s but neither are currently available.
@@BookofMormonEvidence thank you for the feedback
Online at Maskery and Lund
What are you talking about? This is super entertaining. Thank you so much for doing this video. For me and many others we think the longer the better. Please don’t make these short just for the sake of it.
We try hard to keep things on point, but there's just no way to go from basic addition and subtraction to calculus in the mathmatics world any more than jumping from Primary concepts to Temple Symbolism in the gospel. The foundations need to be established before one can build the edifice of understanding. Thanks for making time to delve more deeply in these subjects. We hope it's helpful!
It is not the length of time but you need to stay on topic.
❤❤❤❤
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Hi, being from the other sided of the pond, it doesn’t matter to me where Lehi and his family lived in the America’s, just that they left us this remarkable book. So what pictures they put on the front of the manual is irrelevant and has no impact.
I guess for those of you living over there it does matter more. To know where to do the digs would be helpful.
Welcome, our across-the-pond fellow truth seeker! Thank you for taking the time to share your perspective. Some have felt our research is too nationalistic but we believe that we need not shy away from whatever the Lord has said.
Where much has been given, much is expected. America has been greatly blessed and has a grave responsibility to bless all other nations with the gospel. Unfortunately, too often today, America is exporting evil ideologies rather than striving to uphold freedom and liberty and family.
Gerat work. You need to ask people to put likes and let comments. This will help the You tube algorithm to sread the video.
I appreciate the comment! We are working on that! Thanks for the feedback and leaving a comment :)
Volume very low. hard to make out
Yes, we've corrected since...
Why couldn't the book of Mormon begin in central America and end up in central eastern states? If lehis boat went around the tip of Africa the winds and current pull boats up to central America. After establishing cities over half a millennia eventually after the government seemed to fall after Moroni, alma died the people split, with some pushing off into the oceans into the land northward and into the west sea. As Mormon and Moroni write at the end of the book of Mormon it seems to indicate the moving of plates and people. It sounds as if Mormon and Moroni ended up in the land northward and from that time forward 421 ad there was a span of just over a thousand years before Columbus rediscovered America. It seems to make much more sense that Joseph was addressing the American Indians who ended up in North America with established societies lasting a millenia. I don't see anywhere where Joseph Smith says Lehis family was only in North America. Studying the Aztec societies seem to indicate a period of time that would have included 600 bc to 421 ad with an active population. However after that a society in central America Aztec areas seemed to vanish. Logic says that the war between nephite and Lamanite continued on into North America while the gadiantons secret societies ended all government in central America. There just isn't enough evidence yet to rule out the possibilities of the book of Mormon covering areas in central and north central America to northeast America
There is a voyage done to replicate this voyage, look up the "Phoenician Expedition" we have evidence of a replica journey taking place that forced them to land in Florida. Check it out! Dont forget to subscribe to get future videos!
Thank you for all the work that you do. Do you have any thoughts on where the two eclipses crossover, and what that might have to do with the Nephites an Lamanites. I had heard from somebody that they thought it might be the land of Zarahemla. Any thoughts?
This is the in the southern part of Illinois (Makanda), which if it matches up with the Heartland model it was where Lachoneus gathered the people into the center of their lands and went south where they did their last stand and the 7 years of seige. Dont forget to subscribe to see future videos!
the Lord God will raise up a mighty nation among the Gentiles, yea, even upon the face of this land; and by them shall our seed be scattered.
8 And after our seed is scattered the Lord God will proceed to do a marvelous work among the Gentiles, which shall be of great worth unto our seed;
1 Nephi 22
What nation is this prophecy about, and who is it referring to? Who is going to be scattered? Does it matter what nation it is?
We feel it's crystal clear that the "mighty nation among the Gentiles" is the United States and the ones scattered are the remnant Lamanites. The "marvelous work" refers to the restoration of the gospel, which happened in the United States. So what land was being prophesied about, Meso or North America?
You folks need to work on your audio. Turning it on full blast with my headphones on I can barely hear this
Im sorry you didnt hear it well, we have new mics we are adjusting to as well as a new switcher to handle more inputs. We appreciate your patience! We will stabilize it for the subsequent videos. Thanks for your feedback!
Brigham Young wanted the history from JS mother destroyed. But when that didn't happened he ordered one that was modified to get rid of the things that made him look bad removed.
He didn't apparently have much persuasion in the matter because we have her history, or what you are claiming is inaccurate.
@@BookofMormonEvidence what the majority have is the modification that Brigham Young ordered to happen.
I like the Nauvoo T-shirts you both are wearing in this video. I'm interested to know what the Hebrew characters mean? And where those can be found?
So… I’ve been subscribed for… I don’t know how long.
I’ve shared the truth with all the friends I have that… you know, I tend to share this when I know they’re either on the fence or they’re already in the MTC camp. And I’m tired of “it doesn’t matter WHERE it took place” responses… because what matters to a lot of people. So maybe I just need to expand my share pool.
We’ll see!
Thanks for sharing! We appreciate it! Keep up the great work! #spreadtruth
It’s “M2C” not “MTC” 😉🩵
Don't be fooled by that Clark Kelly Price painting (1:25 mark) of the 2,000 stripling warriors (p 173 in CFM). Can't you see that Aztec/Mayan war club on the ground? It is called a macuahuitl and it has obsidian blades embedded on its side (usually both sides). See page 139 for more Meso artwork and more macuahuitls. Nowhere in the scriptures does it say the Anti-Nephi-Lehies broke their weapons into pieces before tossing into the ground. I don't blame the artists because they painted what they were taught and they were taught wrong!
Look at p 97 for another incorrect Clark Kelly Price painting which shows the sword of Laban in the cement and stone box. No, the sword of Laban and the Liahona were located in a separate repository in the Hill Cumorah along with the many plates that Mormon referred to for his abridgement (Harmony plates) and the small plates of Nephi that were translated in Fayette.
Please don't try to defend or apologize for the artwork in the 2020 and 2024 CFM manuals. About 1/3 of the artwork (and some videos) blatantly promotes the Mesoamerican model, but the church is geography neutral! Both manuals promote the false seer stone in a hat notion. The scholars are hijacking church history and Book of Mormon Geography.
River Sidon flowed north.
No, actually the Church scriptures department corrected that mistake several years ago. The previous triple-combination index under Sidon read 'Sidon - river, most prominent river in Nephite territory, runs north to a sea.' That has been corrected in all new print and online editions to read 'Sidon, River, most prominent river in Nephite territory.' The running north to a sea portion was removed because there are no scriptures to directly support the claim. For a more detailed understanding of the direction of flow of the Sidon River, please check out the interview with the Paul brothers, Stick of Joseph podcast with Rod Meldrum released a couple weeks ago. Hope this helps.
Did they really say MTC on an lds podcast and try to move on without addressing that they weren't talking about the missionary training center 😂😂😂
FYI: The sound on this video is very low
Im sorry you didnt hear it well, we have new mics we are adjusting to as well as a new switcher to handle more inputs. We appreciate your patience! We will stabilize it for the subsequent videos. Thanks for your feedback! Dont forget to subscribe to get notice of the future videos!
Where do I find a copy of the quote that you had where is said in 30:24 "Book of Mormon is a record of the forefathers of our Western tribes of
30:29
Indians by it we learned that our Western tribes"? I have been searching for it and have been unable to find it.
The Wentworth Letter. See
www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2002/07/the-wentworth-letter?lang=eng
Thank you@@BookofMormonEvidence
Does it really matter where it happened?
I believe it does matter. So much of the prophecy is about the land they are on in the future. Our future. The promised land is all about being righteous or being swept off. Satan hates freedom. Just watch him at work and where.
Yeah, of course, to a lot of us it is interesting.
Does truth matter?
Does it matter if the Book of Mormon is an actual history or inspired fiction?
We think it does matter where it happened because...
1. There are 36 prophecies about the "mighty Gentile nation" that would occupy that land in the future. If we can't identify what land they were prophesying about, what's the point of the prophecies?
2. There are over 550 passages in the text dealing with geography. We feel every word inscribed on the gold plates was important. If one chooses to ignore these 550 passages, which other passages do you feel should be ignored? Where does it end?
Yes, believe it or not it actually really does matter!! If location doesn't matter just because it was ancient history
and all that matters is that it actually happened,
then why don't we start saying that Pearl Harbor actually happened in New Jersey😅
If you would study the Nemenhah record it clears all this up.
Some of our people have studied it, but there are many questions pertaining to its provenance that is problematic.
I have been studing what you are talking about for over 25 years. The Book Of Mormon taking place in North America has come up just over the past 20 years. There are a few things that don't add up.
First of all I think there are 3 different sets of belivers where the B Of M took place.
First and has the most belivers - Centrail America
Second - North America
Third - South America mostly Chile and Peru. This has the least in my opinion.
There needs to be a spread sheet with all the items listed that are stated in the B o M about location and people. Then which of the 3 areas has the most matches. Here are a few questions that makes North America not have very many on that list.
B of M (Nephi) said the land had a lot of Gold and silver in abundance. North America and Centeral America don't have an abundance of either. Peru and Chile have the most of the 3
Where did father Lehi land. North America East or West ?????????????? Centeral America could be. Ocean currents have shown that a sail boat coming from the area where Lehi and Nephi were would travel to the west coast of South America and land in the north part of Chili. NOT North America
Many of the traditions of the Mayan, Aztek and Inca show evadance of a bearded white god that came among the people. Why do you think that Cortez had such a easy time with the Mayans. He was a white man with a beard. This bearded white man told the people that he would come again. Study a little about the diving God of the Mayans. He was not diving into water but was diving out of heaven. Look at Tulum and on the temple by the sea there is a carving of the diving god, his father and a blank stone. Jesus, God, Holy Ghost. The people of South America knew a lot about this great spirit god.
Some times the great bodies of water, they called them seas, don't match what is written. We need to remember that the people coming from the bible area refered to great bodies of water seas. They didn't call it Lake Galilee or Dead Lake - They called it The Sea of Galilee and the Dead Sea. They would have call Lake Titicaca a sea.
CEMENT - Where are all the buildings and cement in North America?????? The people in centeral and South America were a lot more advanced than those in North America.
When they found the last person (they thought) of the Jaredites you are saying that was in North America. The ruins in western Peru Match exactly the Jaredites. A few 100 miles north of Lima they have founding cities dating 3000 years ago. There is a ruin in LIMA dating 2000 BC. I have a picture of that building.
There is a olive grove in Lima Peru dating back 1,500 years. Lehi brought seeds with him and could have brought olive seeds..
I don;t have time to go over everything but lets talk about one more item.
In the 1879 edition of the B o M there is a foot note about where Lehi landed. It gives the location as the Northern Part of Chili. President John Taylor also stated that is where Lehi Landed.
Now this next part need more looking into. President Kimball's personal secretary, Brother Naycock, had a personal journal and wrote in it that He and Presdient Kimball were at a stake conference in the Northen Part of Chile next to the ocean. After the conference they were walking along near the water and president Kimball pointed to an inlet and said "That is where father Lehi Landed." After checking it was the same latitude that President Taylor had said eariler. I wouldn't bet my tithing on this story, But it sounds great.
I am not convinced that the B o f M took place in South America ( Chile and Peru) but more items are check off the list than North America or Centeral America.
You may want to read some writing of Prof. Dalvelar the guide of Milton R Hunder. Had a lot to do with "The Trial of The Stick of Joseph"
Thanks for your time. The Book of Mormon is true no matter where it took place. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day-saints is the kingdom of God on the earth.
Thank you for your years of study and time in making your comment. We address each of the items you bring up in much more detail in articles and in our 1,500+ presentations available on our streaming website. To review them here would be nearly impossible, but we will provide a few quick overview type answers and hope everyone interested will review the vast info-base available before coming to conclusions.
Here are some quick answers to consider in the next couple of replies.
1. Actually, there is an abundance of gold and silver in the Heartland of North America. The first Gold Rush of the U.S. occured near Chattanooga, TN. Gold mining continued in this area until 1980's. Every metal mentioned in the text occurs naturally in outcrops within 20 miles radius of Chattanooga.
2. Lehi's landing in Chili at 30 degrees south latitude originated in the Bernhisel Manuscript and is acknowledged by the Church history dept of the Church to not have come from the Prophet Joseph Smith, but was written by William McClellan.
3. When Christ was with the Nephites he told them that His Father had commanded Him to go to "other" (or additional) sheep. We feel that the Maya and other civilizations around the world that speak or write about such a bearded diety were most likely visited by Christ following his visit to the Nephites. In other words, the Maya and others were "other, " other sheep! The many accounts of the bearded God were some of Christ's additional visitations to other peoples besides the Nephites. Of course they recorded those sacred visits, calling Him at times the Feathered Serpant or Quetzalcoatl, etc.
4. "Large bodies of water" were described several time's in the text, usually with them being locatedin the 'North.' The 5 Great Lakes certainly qualify, as you pointed out, as seas and of course they are located north of the Heartland of America.
5. Cement was only used in the construction of Nephite homes when they ran out of wood. How could they run out of wood in a tropical rain forest? Cement also doesn't last long in colder climates because of freeze/thaw cycling.
6. The ancient civilizations of the Adena and Hopewell match quite precisely the timelines of Jaredites and Nephites, respectively.
There's much more that could be said in support of the answers to the questions that you provided by the Heartland research that has been done. We would suggest further familiarizing yourself with the Heartland research before drawing any conclusions about its validity.
Thank you once again for yiur questions
This will be my final comments, here, about this subject.
If the people only used cememt when they ran out of wood what is with all the cememt in centeral and south america and no way they would run out of wood. Look at all the cememt highways the Incas built. They run inbetween almost all the cities in South America.
You said one of the reasons the B of M took place in North America was Joseph Smith said that the North American Indians we desendants of the Lamanites. This is
100% true. The Mayans are desendants of the Lamanites - 100% True - The Aztexs are desendants of the lamanites - 100% True - The Incas are desendants of the lamanites - 100% true. Joseph Smith's statement about the North American Indians makes the B of M take place in North America - 0 % True. If you really study about the Mayans and Incas they are closer to being desendants of a Jesus beleiving people than the North American Indians.
I told you the story about President Kimball stating were Father Lehi landed. How about a eye witness to that event. Daniel Garrido lives in West Bountiful, Ut. In the 70s he was a policeman and worked for a security company in Chile. He was assigned to President Kimball during his stay for the Stake Conference in Northen Chile. He was with Brother Haycock and President Kimball when he pointed to an inlet by the ocean and said "That is were Father Lehi landed". Joseph Smith knew the items that were going in the B O M in 1879 why would he leave the footnote about the location of Lehi's landing in the book? I guess it's just a coincidence the inlet that President Kimball pointed to was exactly the location that President John Taylor stated and wrote about.
As a quote from My Cousin Vinney Your case does not hold water. There are too many holes in it. If the B o M took place up by the great lakes why in the world would a people go northward into Canada. Who would want to live in Canada. They could go northward into Centeral and North America makes a ton more sence than Canada.
Up until the 1940s and 1950s the beleif was the Indians came down from the North into America, Centeral and South America. Then it changed and evidence showed the Indians came up from South and Centeral America in to North America not the other way around.
Experts have a pretty good idea where Lehi sailed from in the old world and is makes 0% sence he would have landed anywhere in Northern America. It shows he would have sailed across the ocean to the center part of South America around northen Chile. These studies were not done by LDS experts.
One more tidbit then I am off. My friend's son served a mission to Guatemala and at a Zone Conference President Oaks said the City of Bountiful was not far from where they were.
They Boof Of Mormon is 100% true. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the The Kingdom of God on the Earth today. 100% true. It's almost like the churches in Joseph Smith's time trying to get people to join their church. If you want to study about where the B Of M tood place just list all the items in the book then see what areas have the most on your list. South America, by far, has the most checked boxes.
Book of took place in all Americas.
Your volume is a little low.
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I enjoyed this. I would submit that the the natives below us in Mexico and beyond are a mixture of the descendants of the children of Lehi and the Mulekite who dispersed over the continents over the course of time from their arrival here to the time the Europeans colonized these continents. So, those below us could be descendants of Lehi as well as those here in the States. I am a proponent of the Homeland model because it makes sense with what is written about the Gentile nation in The Book of Mormon. Central and South America do not fit with the blessing promised to the nation of the Gentiles in the Scriptures. I do not think what we called the Hill Cumorah is the original hill because Mormon is the one who put records there, and he put ALL the records there. Moroni did not return to the Hill to put the finished book there in my estimation. The Hill Cumorah could be in Ohio or even Tennessee in my unresearched opinion.
Good observations. Following the Great Collapse of the Mayan civilization around 900 AD, their descendants left Meso-America and traveled north into the Mississippi River valley, conquering the remnant Lamanites and enslaving them for over 300 years. This became the Mississippian culture of America's Heartland. They built some of the most impressive earthworks in the America's, including the massive Munk's Mound near present-day St. Louis (which has a base of some 17 acres and required over 15 million basket loads of soil to create), Etowah and Okmulgee Mounds in Georgia, and many others.
According to Native American Indian tradition, they were able to overthrow their Mayan task-masters and drive the "Snake People" back south out of their lands. But during those 300 years, they intermarried, thus dispersing Lamanite ancestry throughout North Central and South America as mentioned in sacred temple dedicatory prayers in Mexico, Guatemala, Arizona and even Cardston, Alberta, Canada!. This is all detailed in the DVD presentation by Rod Meldrum titled The Hinterland Hypothesis, available now in the Bookstore at www.bookofmormonevidence.org.
@@BookofMormonEvidence I was not familar with this information and I love it! It fits with what I think, so of course I do.
Mark Wright gave probably the best explanation of both Mesoamerican and Heartland model co-existence that also allow for Joseph Smith's statements whether prophetic or personal - ruclips.net/video/FlAy1cDPLMo/видео.html
Mark did a great service in at least acknowledging that Joseph's revelatory accounts can no longer be swept under the rug and ignored as had previously been the case by Mesoamerica proponents. However, his thesis of the primary lands being in Central America and the outliers (Hinterlands) was in North America is not supported by archaeology. Please watch Rod Meldrum's DVD presentation directly addressing Mark Wrights good faith attempt at reconciling the Meso and Heartland geography models, called 'The Hinterland Hypothesis: Heartland Core, Mesoamerican Periphery'
available in the Bookstore at...
bookofmormonevidence.org/bookstore/product/heartland-hinterland-hypothesis-dvd/
So sad that the geography of the book has become more important than the teachings about the Saviour. These debates divide and not unite. A house divided against itself..............
The geography is never more important than our Savior. But there are prophecies in the Book of Mormon involving those who would occupy their lands in the future. If we don't know which land the ancients were prophesying about, what would be the point of their prophecies? Doesn't truth matter?
It hasn’t become more important.
This point of view makes no sense whatsoever.
The point of view is that there is too much debate about trying to find 'proof' about details that don't carry that much weight. Lots of people turn away because of some detail that we don't currently have scientific 'proof' of. If these things were that important we would have official statements on them. In 1845 there were only 24 states so do promises only apply to those 24? What are the boundaries of the 'promised land'? Do questions like whether there were horses or barley or steel or the latest DNA matter that much? 'Evidence' changes. When I was young scientists claimed we were headed toward an ice age.
@@aisaxonawiat6484
There are some insurmountable problems with the Heartland model. There is not now nor has there ever been a river that flows from South to the North, let alone a major river that could be a candidate for Sidon. There is in Mesoamerica. Also none of the candidates for the Narrow Neck Of Land in the Heartland model could stop anyone for a day from traveling North, no matter how many snakes were squeezed onto the Narrow Neck Of Land, for they could just go around the other sides of the bodies of water, especially along the majority of what is now the Canadian border, or just wait for the several months of the year that the snakes have to hibernate because of freezing temperatures. You did not have Joseph Smith Jr. said, you had I remember that long ago Joseph Smith Jr. said that Moroni told him. And here you said that you weren't going to use any third hand accounts, and then you claim a third hand account as your best "Evidence", when they easily could have been mixing two different events. It's no surprise that North America has Niphites and Lamanites, it tells us that many Nephites traveled North an exceedingly great distance and settled, and that the Lamanites hunted and killed all Nephites who wouldn't deny the Christ, and the Lamanites and the Nephites that denied the Christ would have settled every where they went to hunt down the remaining Nephites. And of course they would mix with any people already there or that came later. Including anyone fleeing the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70A.D. In San Juan County Utah a skeleton of a young girl was turned up while plowing, and it was said to be a Nephite or a Jaredite, but in 1823 Utah was not part of "This Nation", and nowhere does Joseph Smith Jr. ever say anything about This Nation increasing in size to include what was then parts of Mexico. There is nothing to suggest that Joseph Smith Jr. knew that what is now Utah would ever be part of America. But Nephites in Utah doesn't contradict concept of the Mesoamerican model. And where can Nephites travel an exceedingly great distance North? Are you implying that the Nephites became Santa and his elves? The only thing North an exceeding great distance from North America is the Artic Circle and the North Pole, neither of which is the kind of place people would choose to settle. Of course you can continue to twist The Book Of Mormon account even more than has already been done to try to force it to fit the Heartland model if you choose, that's called free agency. Oh, and by the way, the ancient city of Lamanai or Lama'ayin or La'ma'an is in Belize, not North America, and it's one of the few cities we actually know the ancient name.
The mental gymnastics here is exhausting. Again with the “north” flowing river and narrow neck… Forget your biases and take a step back.
Where is the Hill Cumorah? It is in upstate NY. That is a fact. Start there. Not with made up details like volcanoes, north flowing rivers, etc.
@@KippChurch-z1d I go by what The Book Of Mormon says. If you're going to call it a lie, then admit you don't believe in it and go find another church.
I can see that you’re very married to your preferred model. But your so in the weeds with the geography that your over looking the prophecy. The Book of Mormon is a book of prophecy, not geography. When Jesus spoke of the future of the land he stood on he said that it would become a great gentile nation that is a free people. The land of the Book of Mormon has always been a land of liberty. The meso theory simply can’t comply with the prophecies. It doesn’t fit with the things Jesus said would happen in the land where he visited the Nephites and Lamanites.
Wow! 😂 FYI I am grateful to know the Book of Mormon is true by the power of the Holy Ghost. The problem with using only the geographical texts to locate a setting for the BOM is that you could have so many potential sites all over the map. I find it makes much more sense to begin where the Prophet Joseph revealed. Moroni confirmed the Hill Cumorah is located in what is now NY state. It is the Land of Cumorah. Moroni knows. Joseph knows. Start there. It’s the pin in the map.
@@KippChurch-z1d As for the Hill Cumorah, that acquired that name after years of being mistakenly called that, yet in his history he started writing 15 years after the visit of the Angel Moroni and 8 years after the publication of The Book Of Mormon, yet Joseph Smith Jr. still doesn't name the hill where he got the Golden Plates. 🤔 But one thing is certain, Moroni traveled for several years between burying the rest of the records and starting writing again. He tells us he traveled whithersoever he could to avoid discovery by the Lamanites hunting down Nephites everywhere, so he must have traveled quite a distance before he got far enough away he had time to finish the record he didn't bury with the rest. He certainly wasn't walking around in a five mile radius. That would be the height of stupidity, and he wasn't stupid.
European ethnocentric mentality, heartland, so limited. Making money pushing stumbling blocks.
Spain is in Europe.
History. Civilizations had geographic perimeters. Far more folks find history fascinating than attempting to look at everything through the lens of racism.
@@BookofMormonEvidence Europeans made USA a country of 200 years. Amazing they were able to know the land in that limited time. Now use your European ethnocentric mentality and imagine peoples living, North and South, Western Hemisphere since 2200 bc.... Limited to just your so called "heartland"? 3,800 years and unable to know the entirety of the Western Hemisphere!?! Your research is not.
Time to read the Book of Mormon to the degree of becoming familiar with the peoples of the Book of Mormon, and stop being a stranger to them, meanwhile professing to know their history.
@@SchwarzenVolk....your assumptions are biased and absurd.